Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / 🎙️ Reality Bytes: The Rise (and Risks) of Vibe Coding

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🎙️ Reality Bytes: The Rise (and Risks) of Vibe Coding · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome it, change Makers to the Deck Show with Tim
0:05
Speaker 1: Flower and Tom McGrath. Let's get into it.
0:09
Speaker 2: Hello, change Makers, it's reality bites.
0:11
Speaker 3: We're bringing the band back together.
0:13
Speaker 2: We've got Orianna, We've got Megan, We've got Sean, and
0:17
Speaker 2: we've got Timbo. I say, we laugh a little bit
0:20
Speaker 2: because I just said we've got Oriana and Oreanna has
0:22
Speaker 2: just disappeared from our recording studio, and poor Orianna. We
0:26
Speaker 2: were having trouble last time around as well, so hopefully.
0:30
Speaker 3: Orianna returns and it's all good.
0:32
Speaker 2: So look, one of the you know, I think I
0:34
Speaker 2: probably present a podcast because somewhere in me when I
0:38
Speaker 2: was a kid, I quite liked the idea of being
0:40
Speaker 2: a DJ.
0:41
Speaker 3: I think it's probably true, and as such, when the
0:44
Speaker 3: suggestion was.
0:45
Speaker 2: Put forward by our very own sure Maulvi, but we
0:48
Speaker 2: maybe do an episode on vibe coding. I think it felt,
0:53
Speaker 2: you know, quite dj ish as a terminology to use,
0:59
Speaker 2: which is no reason to do a podcast in and
1:01
Speaker 2: of itself. But then we did also have a fantastic
1:03
Speaker 2: episode Tim and I last week where the conversational interface
1:09
Speaker 2: was our focus walls. The conversational interface is kind of
1:14
Speaker 2: just transforming the world as we know it right now.
1:17
Speaker 2: So when we looked into vibe coding, we thought about it,
1:20
Speaker 2: this might be an interesting topic to pursue. But outside
1:25
Speaker 2: the name, Sean, outside the cool sounding term, what was
1:30
Speaker 2: your motivation for covering this topic?
1:33
Speaker 3: Why did it catch your eye? Well?
1:36
Speaker 4: I think you and I Tom, we trend towards more
1:38
Speaker 4: picking up vibes or vibes p vibe orientated, not so
1:43
Speaker 4: much coding. So I think any any way to bridge
1:48
Speaker 4: that gap.
1:49
Speaker 5: That was appealing to me? I like why I was
1:51
Speaker 5: interested in the topic. And yeah, so let's back up
1:54
Speaker 5: a second. So vibe coding coined by earlier this year,
1:59
Speaker 5: coined by Andre Carpathy. He introduced the term for vibe coding.
2:03
Speaker 5: It's AI assist its software development practice where developers use
2:08
Speaker 5: natural language prompts to guide in AI in generating, refining,
2:12
Speaker 5: and debugging code. And as Andre said, it fully giving
2:16
Speaker 5: into the vibes, embracing exponentials, and forgetting that the code
2:21
Speaker 5: even exists.
2:23
Speaker 6: And let me just note too, So this is more
2:25
Speaker 6: than just kind of a fad.
2:28
Speaker 5: It is being used by companies like Meta, Google, IBM,
2:32
Speaker 5: and Microsoft for some of the positives. People are saying
2:37
Speaker 5: developers especially that it speeds up prototyping. So if you
2:41
Speaker 5: want to throw away stuff, but you want to test
2:43
Speaker 5: out something quickly, this can speed up that process. Obviously,
2:48
Speaker 5: it opens up a lot of questions about if you're
2:51
Speaker 5: skipping over line by line in code, are you opening
2:55
Speaker 5: up the door for bigger problems later on? But you know,
2:59
Speaker 5: as self confessed idiot with some of these things, I
3:03
Speaker 5: find it to be very interesting and I would love
3:07
Speaker 5: to vibe code one day.
3:09
Speaker 2: Weren't you vibe code with me? Yes, I say, Tim.
3:13
Speaker 2: From an operational perspective, from an infrastructure perspective, does the
3:18
Speaker 2: vibe code in concept ring any alarm bells?
3:20
Speaker 3: Fee?
3:22
Speaker 7: And so I started my educational career in software development,
3:27
Speaker 7: So my traditional coding goes way back, even though I
3:33
Speaker 7: didn't make a formal career out of it, and I
3:36
Speaker 7: get to kind of play the downer on all of this.
3:40
Speaker 7: Right the alarm bells. I did the same thing Sean.
3:43
Speaker 7: I just to make sure Ike was in the right
3:45
Speaker 7: frame of mind. I googled it and I came up
3:49
Speaker 7: with vibe coding as a software development approach where a
3:51
Speaker 7: user describes the desired functionality in natural language. Some time
3:55
Speaker 7: goes back to our episode last week where we're using
3:59
Speaker 7: language instead of a screen so much to generate things
4:03
Speaker 7: and in this case, generate code. The one alarm that
4:05
Speaker 7: the thing that started my alarm bells was the last
4:07
Speaker 7: sentence of the description. This method accelerates the development of
4:12
Speaker 7: prototypes and applications, making coding more accessible. So that's the
4:17
Speaker 7: first thing that rang my alarm bell is is the
4:21
Speaker 7: coder qualified to discern the output as viable and a
4:27
Speaker 7: quality product. I tested it, and I said, build me
4:30
Speaker 7: a website that does that, creates an ROI model based
4:34
Speaker 7: on these metrics, and it came back with a website
4:38
Speaker 7: that had some interesting visible things to plug in data.
4:43
Speaker 7: But when I looked at the output and how it
4:45
Speaker 7: really was doing the mechanics behind the scene, it wasn't viable.
4:49
Speaker 7: But if you don't know, if you're just if you're
4:51
Speaker 7: not an ROI person or a coder, you really if
4:56
Speaker 7: companies are relying on that method to generate their applications,
5:01
Speaker 7: you're at the mercy of what the AI model gives you.
5:05
Speaker 7: So that was the first alarm bell for me. The
5:08
Speaker 7: second one are you And maybe it's kind of a
5:12
Speaker 7: linked to that concern, are you qualified enough as a coder.
5:17
Speaker 7: If you've got to now take that as a template
5:18
Speaker 7: and take it on. Do you have enough ability to
5:22
Speaker 7: modify and improve the quality or are you just gonna
5:25
Speaker 7: iteratively ask AI to make it better. No, that's not
5:28
Speaker 7: good enough, make it better. So again you're at the
5:30
Speaker 7: mercy of the AI model and the vibe coder to
5:36
Speaker 7: get the product. The other alarm bells Tom for me,
5:40
Speaker 7: were does it it's in this kind of realm of
5:48
Speaker 7: making it more accessible? Is it really within their role?
5:51
Speaker 7: We've talked about shadow it, We've talked about shadow AI.
5:56
Speaker 7: Now this could open up a whole new world of
5:58
Speaker 7: shadow applications. Is it really their role to develop an application?
6:02
Speaker 7: Are you starting to cross boundaries into other areas. Can
6:06
Speaker 7: a line of business say I can't get my IT
6:09
Speaker 7: developers to create this application, I'm just gonna go do
6:11
Speaker 7: it on our own. So, security, governance, all of that stuff,
6:17
Speaker 7: application sprawl is a concern. And then the last one
6:21
Speaker 7: is standardization. So in my previous organization at an insurance company,
6:31
Speaker 7: we had five businesses and each of the businesses had
6:34
Speaker 7: their own application developers, and some used Java, and some
6:38
Speaker 7: used C plus bus, and some used modern application platforms
6:43
Speaker 7: and nobody followed the same standard, and that risk here
6:46
Speaker 7: is here as well. If you're gonna if this causes
6:49
Speaker 7: a splinter, and now you've got applications developed with different vibes,
6:54
Speaker 7: how do you handle integrations, how do you handle data sharing,
6:57
Speaker 7: how do you handle application support? It really it doesn't
7:00
Speaker 7: alleviate the need to apply standards and governances and controls
7:05
Speaker 7: to alleviate all of this, and those things are solvable,
7:08
Speaker 7: but it just making it more accessible to people opens
7:12
Speaker 7: up a whole can of worms that you've got to
7:14
Speaker 7: pay attention to.
7:16
Speaker 2: Really well, said Tim, And it was very interesting you alluded,
7:20
Speaker 2: as I did, to the last episode that we released
7:23
Speaker 2: with Rob Wilson, the Death of the screen.
7:26
Speaker 3: You have a death of the screen is they should
7:27
Speaker 3: have called the episode of that.
7:30
Speaker 2: It was in fact called agentic AI at the end
7:32
Speaker 2: of traditional it t and Rob Wilson is, among other things,
7:37
Speaker 2: the fascinating author of the Age of Invisible Machines. And
7:42
Speaker 2: it was a really eye opening conversation for me, and
7:46
Speaker 2: it also connected very nicely with our chat with Pedro.
7:49
Speaker 2: Tim and one things that the phrase Pedro used that
7:53
Speaker 2: then Rob kind of explored in more depth was this
7:57
Speaker 2: notion that AI differs from individual.
8:01
Speaker 3: Real employees, from real people in the AI.
8:04
Speaker 2: Has no skin in the game, and the workplace is
8:08
Speaker 2: gonna continue to require people who take responsibility for outcomes,
8:14
Speaker 2: people who take responsibility for things. And I just wonder
8:18
Speaker 2: if that isn't really what you're flagging. Right obviously, you know,
8:22
Speaker 2: the functionality here is phenomenal, But there's that is going
8:27
Speaker 2: to require, as you say, standards is going to require
8:30
Speaker 2: the human in the loop ain't going anywhere in this
8:33
Speaker 2: particular part.
8:33
Speaker 3: The human in the loop.
8:34
Speaker 7: And I'll use an example. If you're in California on
8:37
Speaker 7: San Francisco, which I just was recently, way More taxis
8:41
Speaker 7: driverless taxis are everywhere. When a way more runs a
8:44
Speaker 7: red light or gets an a fender bender, who gets
8:47
Speaker 7: the ticket? Where's the human in the in the loop
8:49
Speaker 7: to take accountability for that problem? Same thing with vibe coding,
8:54
Speaker 7: right or AI.
8:55
Speaker 2: I say, blame the passenger, Timber, That's great, I'm onlying there,
8:59
Speaker 2: you know, over passenger in jail.
9:02
Speaker 7: Without a doubt the passenger could have said, hey, run
9:04
Speaker 7: this red light. You don't know what they said.
9:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it is interesting.
9:10
Speaker 2: You know, we definitely recommend people to check out that
9:13
Speaker 2: conversation with Rob Wilson, Orianna fascinated who is who is
9:19
Speaker 2: back with us ladies and gentlemen, I thankfully, uh fascinated
9:24
Speaker 2: to get to get your insights here. In the chat
9:28
Speaker 2: before the show, you did raise some concerns about the
9:31
Speaker 2: question of technical debt and legacy systems and how I
9:34
Speaker 2: guess this interacts as a challenge, as a standardization challenge
9:39
Speaker 2: with his very very aggressive novelty encoding. What are your
9:45
Speaker 2: what are your general reflections and positions?
9:49
Speaker 8: Yeah, so the thing that really stood out to me
9:52
Speaker 8: when I started seeing this is how does it scale?
9:56
Speaker 8: You know, because of all of the issues that Tim
9:59
Speaker 8: has already re and because I really think about code
10:04
Speaker 8: in the context of really really big, complex systems. Right,
10:10
Speaker 8: I've only ever really worked in enterprise level software. It's
10:13
Speaker 8: never really worked in like websites or apps or anything
10:16
Speaker 8: where you can make this kind of fine tuning experimental
10:21
Speaker 8: stuff without it risking really massive downstream effects. And every
10:27
Speaker 8: single person in place I've worked with has had been
10:30
Speaker 8: going issues of tech depth, challenges of improving legacy systems,
10:36
Speaker 8: and also a lot of human problems that go along
10:38
Speaker 8: with that, Right, So I always think about it in
10:40
Speaker 8: terms of how do we make our systems human centered?
10:44
Speaker 8: And I think that some people are going to see
10:46
Speaker 8: vibe coding as a solution for that, right, Like, oh, well,
10:48
Speaker 8: it's going to be human centered because I'm going to
10:50
Speaker 8: customize it to what I want to do. But that
10:54
Speaker 8: isn't really what makes technology human centered, right. What makes
10:59
Speaker 8: technology human center is having a process that understands what
11:04
Speaker 8: people actually need, not just what they think they need
11:06
Speaker 8: in the moment, that interacts with different things and like
11:10
Speaker 8: different components in a system in ways that are strategic
11:15
Speaker 8: and thoughtful and can last right and can be built
11:20
Speaker 8: on right. Like I think anybody who's really technical will
11:23
Speaker 8: tell you that an alarming amount of the Internet is
11:26
Speaker 8: built on very tiny, fragile components, where a very small
11:32
Speaker 8: like a single issue in a single library, can have
11:35
Speaker 8: cascading effects all over in an industry. We're recording this
11:41
Speaker 8: right after having the cloud flare outage, so honestly, we're
11:43
Speaker 8: feeling that very acutely right now. And I want to
11:50
Speaker 8: connect that to something that Dina mentioned. I'm going to
11:52
Speaker 8: quote Tina since she's not here to say it, but
11:54
Speaker 8: she said that one of the problems with vibe coding
11:57
Speaker 8: is that it can hurt dex because you're just getting
11:59
Speaker 8: code from nowhere without schema or context, and I think
12:02
Speaker 8: that scheme in context is so important to building really
12:06
Speaker 8: robust code that you need, especially for anything complex.
12:12
Speaker 3: One hundred percent.
12:13
Speaker 2: What do you think do you think putting these kinds
12:17
Speaker 2: of concerns not necessarily to the side, but shelving them
12:20
Speaker 2: at least for a second. To what degree do you
12:24
Speaker 2: think this is going to be able to answer the
12:26
Speaker 2: demand or reflect that demand for more custom solutions by
12:30
Speaker 2: employees themselves and just for a more nuanced, reflective, personalized system.
12:37
Speaker 8: Yeah. So I would say, have you ever used open
12:40
Speaker 8: source software? And have you used good open source software
12:43
Speaker 8: and bad open source software? So I listen to my
12:47
Speaker 8: podcasts on something called Antennapod, which an open source platform.
12:52
Speaker 8: It's really nice. It's super customizable. It's also a little
12:55
Speaker 8: bit of a pain sometimes because you can customize everything, okay,
13:01
Speaker 8: because it's an open source project and people wanted it
13:03
Speaker 8: to do all the things. And one of the reasons
13:05
Speaker 8: why I like it is also that it's quite lightweight.
13:07
Speaker 8: So this is a passion project. People have put a
13:09
Speaker 8: lot of effort into making it do these things in
13:13
Speaker 8: a way that is effective, right, because it's a much
13:16
Speaker 8: smaller app than many others and it has all these customizations.
13:21
Speaker 8: But that requires a lot of skill and a lot
13:23
Speaker 8: of effort, right, So that's sort of my positive example,
13:26
Speaker 8: And even that is quite confoluted, right, And there's a
13:29
Speaker 8: lot of open source projects where you can see that.
13:31
Speaker 8: It's just it's a complete manner, it's buggy, it's got
13:36
Speaker 8: lots of overhead. It you know, doesn't have basic features
13:41
Speaker 8: that you really want, and then it has so much
13:44
Speaker 8: customization that it's completely impossible to learn how to use.
13:47
Speaker 8: And that's why I think that it's really important to
13:49
Speaker 8: have a concrete point of view and a united vision
13:55
Speaker 8: even when you're trying to think about how to customize
13:57
Speaker 8: thanks to.
13:57
Speaker 2: People, any other things you can see where you would
14:03
Speaker 2: anticipate there could be an impact upon decks, the ability
14:08
Speaker 2: to effectively manage and monitor decks in an organization any ways,
14:13
Speaker 2: it could jeopardize the use, for instance, of next being
14:16
Speaker 2: products or any variety of sm tools that you can
14:18
Speaker 2: think of.
14:21
Speaker 8: Well, when I think of how it could have a
14:25
Speaker 8: negative interaction with DEX, I think part of that is
14:32
Speaker 8: just you know, the dangers of shadowy Tea. The security stuff.
14:35
Speaker 8: A lot of the stuff Tim talked about immediately keep
14:37
Speaker 8: to my mind in terms of it's very hard to
14:40
Speaker 8: monitor or manage anticipate issues, and especially some of you
14:44
Speaker 8: who did previously work at a cybersecurity company, one of
14:47
Speaker 8: the things that is very true cybersecurity is that it
14:50
Speaker 8: is much much harder to defend because you're constantly trying
14:54
Speaker 8: to find every single hole and you can never find
14:58
Speaker 8: all of the possible holes. Of looking holes into your
15:02
Speaker 8: systems at random at an alarming pace, that makes it
15:08
Speaker 8: really really impossible to do security.
15:10
Speaker 3: Well.
15:11
Speaker 8: I do think the other side of dex application to
15:15
Speaker 8: sort of the IT perspective, right, So I think that's
15:19
Speaker 8: also a totally separate question in a way, is okay, well,
15:24
Speaker 8: how can vibe coding help people who want to automate
15:30
Speaker 8: processes who want to have custom solutions and technical resources
15:34
Speaker 8: that they don't currently have, right? And I do you
15:37
Speaker 8: think that's both a cool application, right? Like I do
15:42
Speaker 8: think it's a possible positive venue for democratizing coding in
15:49
Speaker 8: a way, but I do think that it needs systems
15:51
Speaker 8: in place to manage it to avoid all of these
15:54
Speaker 8: issues that we're highlighting.
15:56
Speaker 3: I love it we're moving inside out.
15:58
Speaker 2: I think everybody be styled with all the cautionary elements,
16:02
Speaker 2: and we're moving towards the positive visionary usages.
16:06
Speaker 3: Megan, bring us all the way there.
16:08
Speaker 2: If you would put putting some of these flaws to
16:12
Speaker 2: one side, what ways do you envisage or are you
16:15
Speaker 2: hearing about from the customers you speak to so often
16:17
Speaker 2: that the vibe coding is beginning to help individuals or
16:21
Speaker 2: deed organizations.
16:23
Speaker 9: Wouldn't that be funny. I can't say that I've talked
16:26
Speaker 9: to anyone in our customer base that is using vibe
16:31
Speaker 9: coding at the enterprise level, and I think that that's
16:34
Speaker 9: probably due to the cautionary points that we've made so far.
16:38
Speaker 9: I think scalability right like what Oreana just mentioned. And yeah,
16:43
Speaker 9: not to totally just not non answer your question, but
16:47
Speaker 9: another aspect of this that I was thinking about, obviously,
16:50
Speaker 9: this vibe coding thing. I'm not a coder at all,
16:53
Speaker 9: so I wouldn't I don't think I would ever try
16:56
Speaker 9: it because I have no way of knowing if what
16:58
Speaker 9: the code it spits out as useful or not. I
17:00
Speaker 9: think about my own use of these Genai tools, and
17:03
Speaker 9: I use them right to do some to draft copy
17:06
Speaker 9: for me to do writing to. Basically, that's kind of
17:09
Speaker 9: the only thing I use them for is to write
17:11
Speaker 9: stuff for me. And what I've learned from working with
17:14
Speaker 9: them for the last however long, is you have to
17:16
Speaker 9: be really specific and what you want. If you just say, hey,
17:19
Speaker 9: write me an article about this thing, it's going to
17:21
Speaker 9: spit you out the most generic, boring like unreadable exactly
17:27
Speaker 9: with the word count you ask for article with all
17:30
Speaker 9: the creativity stripped out of it. And you have to
17:32
Speaker 9: be very want article that covers this thing with this
17:34
Speaker 9: audience and this tone in voice, cover X, Y and Z.
17:37
Speaker 9: It's even better if you can give it an outline
17:39
Speaker 9: and then it will you do something.
17:41
Speaker 2: But still, I.
17:43
Speaker 9: Mean, there's a whole thing like justice for the M
17:45
Speaker 9: dash right, like nobody uses m dashes anymore because it's
17:47
Speaker 9: such a sign that you're writing was written by Genai
17:50
Speaker 9: and not by a human being. I think human beings
17:52
Speaker 9: bring a creativity that Jeni just doesn't replicate. And I
17:56
Speaker 9: think we've talked about this before, and I'm not a coder,
17:58
Speaker 9: so I can't say whether that's happening with the vibe
18:00
Speaker 9: coding as well. If it's just sort of the dumbification
18:03
Speaker 9: of code output, like the way that it's become the
18:06
Speaker 9: dumbification of writing output. The things that Jenai writes, they're
18:10
Speaker 9: just not that inspiring, they're not that fun to read.
18:12
Speaker 9: They're useful in certain contexts, right, like a marketing copy,
18:16
Speaker 9: like a landing page or an email copy or whatever.
18:19
Speaker 9: It follows a rope, standard set up, and so it's
18:22
Speaker 9: okay that it's not like the most thrilling and exciting
18:25
Speaker 9: thing you've ever read in your life.
18:27
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
18:28
Speaker 9: I think the beauty of having a human solve something
18:31
Speaker 9: is that we come up with a creative way to
18:32
Speaker 9: solve a problem. And it's that's the thing that I
18:35
Speaker 9: think our customers get excited about with decks is that
18:37
Speaker 9: it requires creative thinking to solve problems that previously it
18:41
Speaker 9: didn't think they could solve. And now they hear a
18:43
Speaker 9: pobly like, actually, you know, because we have this dex
18:45
Speaker 9: data and we have this solution, we can solve for
18:47
Speaker 9: that vibe coding, I don't know, maybe someone can will
18:53
Speaker 9: hear me say this and come send me a message
18:56
Speaker 9: on LinkedIn with all the different ways that vibe coding
18:58
Speaker 9: has enabled them to be incredibly creative, and I would
19:00
Speaker 9: love to hear that, but to me, it seems just
19:03
Speaker 9: like another example of like we're just dumbing down the
19:06
Speaker 9: output that we're getting out of these things. And every
19:10
Speaker 9: example I've heard of people using vibe coding has been
19:12
Speaker 9: to make those sort of small individual projects. A website
19:16
Speaker 9: that can generate a goofy image, an app that can
19:19
Speaker 9: generate something kind of silly, or I've been reading articles
19:24
Speaker 9: about criminals using it to hack into things and ransom people,
19:28
Speaker 9: which obviously isn't what these companies want. So at the
19:31
Speaker 9: enterprise level, I think we're going to bump into all
19:32
Speaker 9: the things we've already identified in this conversation. And I
19:37
Speaker 9: have not heard about any of our customers using vibe
19:40
Speaker 9: coding for their own internal software.
19:44
Speaker 2: It can sound fun, though what you use for you
19:47
Speaker 2: What did you use tim for your experiment with it?
19:50
Speaker 7: I don't remember which tool it was.
19:53
Speaker 3: I'd have to go back.
19:53
Speaker 7: It was it was a few months back, but it
19:57
Speaker 7: was it was very similar to Meghan, what you were
20:00
Speaker 7: talking about, where the result that I got was very simplistic,
20:04
Speaker 7: It was not as robust as I needed it to be,
20:07
Speaker 7: and I really felt like pursuing that avenue to get
20:11
Speaker 7: something better was going to be a waste of my
20:13
Speaker 7: time because it just wasn't going to get there that
20:16
Speaker 7: I would be able to do it much better. And
20:18
Speaker 7: that goes to the skill of the person asking the question.
20:21
Speaker 7: Maybe if I wasn't an ROI kind of a person,
20:24
Speaker 7: I would have pursued it for a lot longer, I.
20:26
Speaker 3: Think, Tom.
20:27
Speaker 7: It also plays into some of the things we've talked about,
20:29
Speaker 7: does a I really make you more productive or are
20:32
Speaker 7: you chasing something that feels more productive but in the
20:34
Speaker 7: end you're actually wasting more time.
20:37
Speaker 2: Interesting, and I should add, you know, congratulations to vibe
20:40
Speaker 2: coding for being the ost Dictionary Word.
20:43
Speaker 3: Of for year twenty twenty five.
20:45
Speaker 10: But I will allow Sewan to finish this conversation off
20:52
Speaker 10: with a prediction Sewan as to whether vibe cozing as
20:56
Speaker 10: a trend is about to come crashing down in the
20:59
Speaker 10: new year or we've only seen the beginning of its rise.
21:03
Speaker 6: I'm gonna say we're only seeing the beginning only because Meta, Google, IBM,
21:08
Speaker 6: and Microsoft are willing to put it into training modules
21:11
Speaker 6: and see what it can come back with, and they've
21:13
Speaker 6: done it before in the past, where there's been big surprises,
21:16
Speaker 6: So if they're willing to tinker with it, let's not
21:21
Speaker 6: rate it off just yet.
21:22
Speaker 2: You don't want to go up against their collective might
21:25
Speaker 2: too strongly. There's some strong there, well, I think I
21:29
Speaker 2: think there's certainly something there, and I think there's certainly
21:32
Speaker 2: some some guardrails suggested by a panel today which we
21:36
Speaker 2: would all do all do well to keep in mind
21:39
Speaker 2: as we as we continue to experiment heartily with AI
21:44
Speaker 2: and in.
21:44
Speaker 3: So many different areas.
21:47
Speaker 2: But look, we've just come out of our I would
21:49
Speaker 2: think of our series of shows celebrating marking our two
21:54
Speaker 2: hundredth episode as a not just as the Deck Show,
21:56
Speaker 2: but as Reality Bites as well. We all contributed to
22:00
Speaker 2: ever to reaching this incredible numerical milestone, and we're just
22:05
Speaker 2: entering that that period of the year where things start
22:09
Speaker 2: to wind down and we're going to hear you know,
22:11
Speaker 2: people who have been listening to the show for years
22:13
Speaker 2: know that this panel we come together, we hash out
22:17
Speaker 2: the year it was twenty twenty five and our highlights
22:20
Speaker 2: and our predictions the next year, and we also Tim
22:24
Speaker 2: and I will also be talking to returning show favorite
22:27
Speaker 2: Jeff Right to hear how his years, is that right,
22:33
Speaker 2: might not even have known that.
22:37
Speaker 7: By now we can assume is the perennial year.
22:39
Speaker 3: Then yeah, exactly right, exactly right.
22:42
Speaker 2: So we hope everybody listening joins us to that, it
22:45
Speaker 2: joins us to those episodes, and thanks everybody for coming
22:50
Speaker 2: on to discuss vibe coding and I'll see you very soon.
22:56
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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,