Latest / The Curve / TCW43: Love, money and stopping to smell the Gherkin.

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TCW43: Love, money and stopping to smell the Gherkin. · The Curve

• 0:00
  Hi and welcome to the Curve Weekly. The podcast that keeps you up to date with all the money,
• 0:06
  business and stock market tea. Everyone should experience for us at least once in their lives
• 0:10
  and Annie shouldn't miss out just because she can't afford it. Help me, I'm poor.
• 0:15
  But do you think we can boast a little bit about the event we have tonight?
• 0:20
  Oh my god, she's forgotten. Oh my god, I've had seven meetings today, so I am like, sorry,
• 0:27
  what are we doing next hour? Oh my gosh, honestly, I'm going back to New Zealand a couple weeks,
• 0:31
  so I've said, let's do six records a week, but I'm like, girl, you know, we also have a business
• 0:36
  to run as well as during a podcast, but anyway, no, she just wants to spend lots of time with me.
• 0:41
  I just love talking to you. No, tonight we are speaking. Why the suckers?
• 0:48
  Tonight we are speaking at Google. At Google. Like 200 people casually.
• 0:54
  You know, I think it's so easy in life and business and everything to be like, cool, okay, next,
• 1:00
  okay, next. Yeah, right, we're talking Google, yep, next, you know, it's like very easy. Honestly,
• 1:03
  if you told me we were going to be speaking at Google in London last year, I'd have been like,
• 1:08
  hilarious. You're pretty good at like pinch me moments. Do you think? Whereas I'm kind of like,
• 1:14
  oh, yep, next, okay, yep, cool, that's done, like don't soak in the moment.
• 1:19
  We don't smell the roses. No, I think it's like definitely something we should be very proud of.
• 1:23
  We wait for a meeting the other day. And so I've said, whoa, the Girkin, whoa, taking photo.
• 1:28
  I'm like, come on, okay, we've got to get to the meeting. Just like the feeling that's not
• 1:31
  going to London, the Girkin's a giant building. It's not like it looks like a Girkin, yeah.
• 1:34
  And anyway, we're going through security in this guy's like, are you visiting here?
• 1:39
  Because she was like, lean back, like, following the air, trying to take a photo and like,
• 1:44
  police is hard. Yeah, she's just like, I won't be hiring you for a photographer. And I was like,
• 1:48
  little do you know it's so true, but no, it's good that you appreciate this small stuff.
• 1:56
  You just stop and look at the Girkin. Yeah, that should give you a bumper sticker.
• 1:59
  Stop and smell the Girkins or stop and look at the Girkins. Yeah, stop and appreciate the Girkins.
• 2:03
  Oh, I love that. I should get a sticker made. Okay, so in stock market news,
• 2:13
  bumbles on the news again. Yeah, yeah. I've seen this. Oh, yeah. A lot of people would have,
• 2:18
  right? Yeah. That the CEO or founder has stepped down and found a new replacement.
• 2:22
  Yes. Yeah, yeah. So she, so Whitney will've heard. So she founded the company about 10 years ago now.
• 2:30
  So she was actually a co-founder and VP of marketing at Tinder. Then there was this big kind of
• 2:37
  sexual harassment claim. I shouldn't leave on the best terms. And there was claims of sexual
• 2:42
  harassment. I just watched a like a class that she did on the master class platform.
• 2:47
  And she does talk to the fact that she used to be at Tinder. Yeah. And it was so interesting,
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  because she, when she does talk about the sexual assault, she was like, this is before me too.
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  This is before there was any kind of support in that kind of situation. And like she was
• 3:01
  absolutely ridiculed for it. Like speaking up and honestly, like I think she was pretty brave,
• 3:08
  because that would have been before the time when as soon as you say there's some dodgy
• 3:14
  shit happening here. And people are like, oh no, what? You know, I think she was really fighting
• 3:19
  against quite a masculine company. Yeah. But what better way to be like, fuck you? Yeah.
• 3:26
  Then they're like, I'm going to set up my own dating app. And it's been a huge success.
• 3:32
  But to be honest, both dating apps from a share price point of view have been absolutely terrible.
• 3:37
  Have that. Yeah. But from a user point of view, they've been great. So what about as a company
• 3:42
  in terms of what the companies were? Yeah. So since covers, so match groups, so they own Tinder and
• 3:48
  Hinge, that's down about 70% and bundles down 80%. And the market over the same time. So
• 3:54
  there's some P500 is up 40%. Is that because they're not able to con people like myself into buying
• 4:01
  the premium? Because I did spend 150 dollars on that. They need more Sophie Horace. They need more
• 4:06
  desparados out there. No, well, Tinder didn't introduce a more premium subscription service.
• 4:11
  I think it's like $500. Like a premium premium. But I think, and this is purely just me speculating,
• 4:19
  it's kind of, you use it. But then the whole preface of it is that you find love and you don't
• 4:24
  use it ever again. Yeah. And there was this huge uptaken covers because everyone was at home dating,
• 4:31
  literally dating online. Yeah. And then now that's probably.
• 4:34
  You made it a park. We can never zoom days. We can wear masks. Yeah. So I think it's just people,
• 4:41
  less people using it now. But it's from a growth perspective, not an absolute numbers perspective,
• 4:47
  if that makes sense. Because companies, they need to keep growing in order for their share prices
• 4:50
  to keep growing up. So if you're not continuing to grow and build on that growth, then that's when
• 4:56
  your share price to kind. So, but it's just interesting that both haven't been successful
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  from a investor perspective. But I wonder from a love perspective that's been successful. And that's
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  why the share price has gone down. You know, because people like joined, fun love by,
• 5:09
  joined, fun love by. Yeah. We found love. No, not on Tinder or Hinge. No, neither. I was listening
• 5:15
  today over CEO the other day and love Stephen Bartlett. Do we love him? I do. No. Only other
• 5:21
  podcasts I listen to. You listen to your own? No. You still don't listen to him. I don't.
• 5:26
  Because I hope it's on my own voice. No, but I don't know him as a person, but he's definitely
• 5:31
  a good unto you anyway. Yeah. He was speaking to this one. It's quite funny. And I sister
• 5:36
  seemed it to me and it's all about like love and sight, the science behind it and rewiring your
• 5:42
  brain to not just go for what you are used to. Yeah. Anyway, she works on the board for Hinge
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  and she was talking about how it was really interesting that she would have thought she's
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  like, this is not an advertisement for Hinge at all, but she's she thought when she went in and
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  started working for them as like a love and relationships coach that they inherently just want
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  people to sound the platform to continue their revenue model. But she said the CEO and founder
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  is constantly banging on about how they're trying to get people off the app. The whole point is
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  to come on and off like the point is how can we actually help people find love. And she said she
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  asked why isn't it doesn't make no sense to get people off the app. And he said the best referral
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  is I found love on Hinge. So if someone's at a wedding and get married and they say they met
• 6:29
  on Hinge, it's like everyone's going to download that app that's single. I have heard that so
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  so many more times now recently. It's like, oh you met on Hinge rather than like Tinder or
• 6:39
  there is walking billboards. But yeah, there's actually been studies that say 80% of US college
• 6:44
  students. So they don't use any dating apps. Oh really? Yeah. Well, how? I know college students though.
• 6:52
  Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's a subset, but it's like a bit of research. I guess. But I was just
• 6:56
  going to say first year. They're probably millions of people anyway, as if you need a dating app.
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  Yeah, true, true, true, true. Like you and Adan, what have been on a rampage? I don't know.
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  The rampage by my sister, the best advice she gave me going to university. She was like,
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  just don't hook up with anyone in a week. So wait, a week is the is the first week where I
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  get introduced to each other. You kind of get a bit excited. Okay. And so I kind of took that and
• 7:24
  rolled with it for about the whole time you're at uni. No. But yes, Bumble. So she is being replaced.
• 7:33
  So Whitney is being replaced by the CEO of Slack. Oh yeah. So a lot of people probably use Slack.
• 7:37
  Quite cool. That's another female. I've read an article that Whitney put out and she said that she
• 7:42
  Whitney had said I've searched like far and wide for my replacement, which you would if you built
• 7:48
  a company up from scratch. Oh, totally. And for the shit that she went through with Tinder to
• 7:53
  then get to a place where she's IPO to companies, the youngest self-made billionaire. Yeah.
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  You would want to make sure that that person that's filling your shoes is going to do a good job
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  and not drive your company to the toilet. It's just a shame that their share price has gone from
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  $75 with their IPO's in 2021 to $13 now. Why? You know, I could just be such a... Yeah, I wish
• 8:14
  they could do better. Do you think it's just the... We need to get people to buy the shoes.
• 8:18
  But is it just the revenue model maybe or like I wonder if I think you might be onto something with
• 8:22
  the get it drop off, get it drop off. Yeah. Yeah. But then I think you're onto something with the
• 8:27
  walking billboards. Yeah. Who knows? I would kind of like to see them do better, especially when
• 8:33
  they're being used so much now. Yeah. It's pretty normal to use a dating app now. 10 years ago,
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  it was so creepy. I remember like the blue fish or whatever that was called or like there was
• 8:42
  some fish dating app. And it was creepy. It was like, oh, you're going to meet someone online.
• 8:46
  How embarrassing. And now it's just so old man from like... Yeah, it was a cat room,
• 8:51
  a catfish company. Yucky energy. Yeah. Now it's so normal. Anyway, yeah, the shit price is not
• 8:56
  done very well. And the founder leaving is not a red flag, not a green flag. Yeah, more of a beige flag.
• 9:03
  Nothing beats having a founder in the driver's suit, really. Do you want to explain that for anyone
• 9:08
  who hasn't done any of the courses or go do them? I will see. Just say enough every. Yeah.
• 9:17
  No. So founder le businesses have historically and statistically done a lot better than companies
• 9:22
  with CEOs. They're just in there for a couple of years. And that's all because with a founder,
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  they're passionate about the business being a success. They're driven, they've got an emotional
• 9:32
  attachment. There's much more than just a monetary gain, you know, of getting your paycheck and
• 9:38
  making changes in the business and having it succeed. And it's kind of like a prime minister
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  that comes in, has a four year term, makes some changes and then they want to leave their mark
• 9:46
  for that four years. It's the same with the CEO. If you've got a CEO that's only coming in for
• 9:50
  a couple of years, they're going to make some really short term changes, might benefit them,
• 9:54
  but not benefit investors, which are usually there for a much longer period. So yeah, it's just
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  statistically founder le businesses have done a lot better. So yes. And other news, good old
• 10:08
  shine is potentially IPOing. Who's shine? Oh, really? Oh my god, I've written so many notes on
• 10:15
  this one. It's like the ultra fast fashion company. Like sorry. Okay. Well, anyone for
• 10:27
  all those screaming into the earphones being like, oh my god, Sophie, how do you know,
• 10:32
  shine? Sorry. Do you buy from them? Like is it? It's like an online, it's like a direct consumer.
• 10:37
  So it's all online. Yeah. Kind of like Zara, primark, got it, a sauce, all those like super
• 10:45
  fast fashion. They've had a lot of controversies in terms of this, they were selling products,
• 10:50
  like $2 and everyone's like, you're using child labor. That is so bad. So quite interesting
• 10:55
  with the IPOing and almost like exposing their naked body for the world to say exactly. Yes. And
• 11:01
  getting ridicule from investors. But it's TBC on when they're actually going to IPO, but
• 11:08
  there is rumors. Yeah. That's going to be a $90 billion company, which is massive. So that's
• 11:14
  18 times the size of gap, you know, gap the company in the US. Yeah. I was kidding. Of course,
• 11:23
  I know what the gap is. It's like, it's like ever coming in for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a
• 11:27
  Chinese, it's a Chinese company. And so, but they kind of like kind of moved there. They had
• 11:32
  called it now in Singapore. They're trying to like move away from their Chinese founding.
• 11:36
  Does that make sense? Yeah. The controversies were all around.
• 11:43
  Do you know Tim, you? What? No, this is like, is it really something most people would know?
• 11:49
  Yes. Tim is like, it's like, where did you get that dress? Oh, that looks like shine. You know,
• 11:54
  I'm like, Halloween costumes, or go just buy it off shine. Like it's like, what about,
• 11:58
  so what's the second thing you said? I tell you, so this is another Chinese company that's
• 12:02
  almost a like direct competition with it. And it's beaten shine in terms of its sales more recently.
• 12:10
  So it's just like a separate public. They are part of a public company. Yes. So you can
• 12:13
  invest in them. But shines facing intense competition. They've had controversies. And now they're
• 12:18
  going to IPO. It's just kind of seems like it'll be interesting to see how it goes. But then also,
• 12:23
  they're growing so rapidly. So it's surprising that they are growing. Like what countries
• 12:28
  are they going in? I feel like in the US, yeah. Even though there was all that PR. Well, it's like
• 12:32
  cost of living crisis, baby. Wow. You know, when you can get a $2 swimsuit. Oh, that's so messed up.
• 12:39
  I know. But it's kind of like, yeah, I get some people kind of forward anything else. It's not,
• 12:44
  it's a privilege to shop and invest in line with your values because a lot of people can't even
• 12:50
  afford just to get by little on even consider that. But kind of in a ways that companies like
• 12:54
  that are doing so, so well. And I reckon this is a good example of when you talk about investing
• 12:59
  companies that you believe in investing companies that you want to see grow. Like I've got no interest
• 13:04
  in wanting shine to grow. It was the most downloaded shopping app in the US. Yeah. Any way. Yeah.
• 13:11
  So also on for over 21? I know for over 21. Yay. We got there. I mean, for over 21.
• 13:18
  Take that judgment and oh, it's a bit, it's a bit pearly for me. Yeah. I know.
• 13:22
  Pills and shiny things. I'm just not my star. Here's the punch, shiny things.
• 13:29
  What do you want to hear about next? I'll feed the finance slayer or, sorry, I've just got it.
• 13:33
  I've got to share this yesterday. We were sitting in in our co-working space. And I just heard
• 13:39
  this giggling from beside me and I turned around and I said, and then I looked back at my computer
• 13:43
  and then just more giggling. You know, when someone's laughing as if they want the attention
• 13:47
  for what they're laughing at, you were. And then it was like, and then you and I was like, okay.
• 13:55
  If it's like, Buffy the vampire is like, and I was like, what? Buffy the finance.
• 14:04
  Anyway, she's funny. She's a theory funny. Like Buffy is a moron buffer obviously.
• 14:08
  No, I'm glad you explained these. Most people wouldn't get it. Yeah, I know. You might be like, what?
• 14:12
  Anyway, so Warren Buffett has an investment company called Bookshare Hathaway and invests in
• 14:17
  a whole lot of different businesses. But within that, they have a pool of cash of around 157 billion dollars.
• 14:23
  That they don't invest. That they don't invest. They're kind of sitting there waiting for things
• 14:27
  from invested. He's a pretty slow investor. He doesn't invest lots. Very conservative. So that's
• 14:32
  probably why he's got a bit of cash. His last investment was Apple. But when he goes, he goes
• 14:37
  goes big. So he kind of sits there and waits and then we'll just be like, I'm going to take
• 14:41
  a massive bite out of this company. I really would love to know what his process is. I can
• 14:45
  imagine being in his research team and seeing what goes into choosing a company. But also having
• 14:49
  the patience to be looking at hundreds of different companies. And then imagine if you were like
• 14:53
  this young analyst and you found the next one that Warren Buffett, he was like, yeah, that's the one.
• 14:57
  You'd be like, yeah, yeah. Sure. Anyway, so he's sitting on 177 billion dollars of cash.
• 15:03
  Now usually I would say keeping money in the bank is a terrible idea. And it is with inflation
• 15:08
  because what you can purchase from that cash gets less and less as time goes on when inflation is
• 15:13
  high. But also right now what we're seeing is interest rates are really high. So what are you
• 15:19
  getting on your savings in the bank is actually a lot higher than what it was. So usually you get one
• 15:24
  or two percent. Now you're getting kind of five six if you're lucky. You know, sorry, not if you're
• 15:29
  lucky, but most people were getting kind of four five six. So by him just having that money in the
• 15:34
  bank or his company just having that money in the bank, they're making $1.7 billion each quarter
• 15:40
  just from having their money sit there. $1.7 billion every four months, every three months.
• 15:45
  Yeah. How many months from a year, so far? 12 divine arrived. I don't think it'll be so good as well.
• 15:52
  But it just goes to show. And this is kind of how you can make money too. You don't have
• 15:58
  $1.7 billion, but even if you had $100 in the bank and it's earning that five percent interest,
• 16:06
  you know, the higher the amount that you have invested or saved in a savings account,
• 16:11
  that percentage of a higher base is going to be, I'm sorry. Are you telling people to keep money
• 16:17
  in the bank? I don't know if I've ever heard you say that either. No, I'm saying if you have to,
• 16:21
  like your emergency fund, for example, yeah, obviously investing it is the best idea,
• 16:27
  but if you do have money in the bank and it is and make sure it isn't a high returning savings account.
• 16:31
  So this isn't just like a checking everyday account. This isn't an account where you're earning,
• 16:35
  where you're earning interest, you're earning a return. And so because I'm pretty sure my savings
• 16:41
  account has almost like no return, if you call your bank or you look at the other options within
• 16:46
  your bank and they have none, is that when you would consider swapping, putting your money somewhere else?
• 16:50
  They definitely will have a savings account. It'll just be, you either have to put it in a term
• 16:54
  deposit or transfer it into another savings account, but they definitely will. And this is the great
• 16:58
  thing about having high interest rates at the moment. It's beneficial for savers, people with
• 17:02
  money in the bank and especially retirees at the moment. But I thought you said that inflation's
• 17:07
  the worst thing ever for money in the bank. Yeah, so it is. She's lying to us if you're on.
• 17:13
  So this is why if you've got money in a transaction account earning nothing, that's the worst possible
• 17:19
  thing. So if you do you want to bear it again? Sorry, it's so much.
• 17:26
  Oh, we're so attracted. I'm sorry, everyone. And on that note, I think we're going to
• 17:33
  wrap it up. Oh, and I forgot Uber. Yeah, what was happening with Uber?
• 17:37
  So they had, they reported their results. So this is their second quarter of profitability. So
• 17:42
  they've been listed since 2014. So nearly 10 years. So they've been unprofitable for that long
• 17:48
  and the last six months they've been. That is so crazy. Yeah. It's one of those times where,
• 17:54
  I don't know, from your perspective, how long should you wait? Yeah. Yeah. So 32 billion
• 17:59
  dollars of losses is what they've racked up over those years. Wow, 32 billion. So if I
• 18:03
  were to invest a point of view, yeah, you'd be saying they're going, was this the quarter?
• 18:06
  Is this the quarter? And it's like, no, no, no, no. I mean, I'd probably give up after nine years.
• 18:10
  And then they get profitability and I'd be like, no, does that mean that share price has gone up,
• 18:15
  well, it has the last 12 months is up 90%. Shit. Yeah. I must say, from there,
• 18:20
  fucking presence in London, I haven't got some good things to say about it. I know. So you recommend
• 18:26
  just ask for everybody getting over here. Yeah. New Zealand, you click a button and off, off they come.
• 18:30
  Probably because they're all sitting there waiting for anyone to click the app.
• 18:34
  Anyone alive in this country. We love you, New Zealand. We love you, New Zealand,
• 18:40
  but it is all about this, like the resurgence and back to school corporates going back to work,
• 18:45
  like all of that, going to meetings, go Uber. So sorry, from an investing lens with this news,
• 18:52
  if you were to go and think about investing in Uber now, given like, oh, they're profitable,
• 18:57
  is this an example where they might be at the top of the peak and then they fall down or
• 19:02
  yeah, no, it's hard to know. It's more with any company you should be thinking of the future.
• 19:07
  So it's easy to look at Uber now and being like, well, of course, everyone's going to go back to work.
• 19:11
  Of course, people are going to go back to schools. Of course, people are going to travel again.
• 19:14
  So that's why it's two prices up, 19 cents in the last 12 months. So it's now looking at Uber
• 19:20
  at a snapshot now and going, okay, what's going to drive this business for the next 12 months or
• 19:25
  the next two years, three years, four years. And to be honest, yeah, they've got six and a half
• 19:31
  million drivers on the roads. These countries, who was they talking to? Someone from Scotland
• 19:37
  and she was like, we don't even have Uber in Scotland. I was like, sorry, but so that's an idea
• 19:41
  of a geographic expansion totally. Yeah. And then also the services that yes, they've got cars,
• 19:46
  they've got scooters, they've got premium cars, they've got foot, yeah. And they've started doing
• 19:52
  hot air balloons in Turkey. Uber hot air balloons in Turkey. No, I know. I feel like I saw it
• 19:59
  an ad in the tube that said something about Uber train. Yeah, I don't know how on earth
• 20:05
  for that work. So do you know what I mean? They've got such a big network. There'll be things.
• 20:09
  You've got Uber parcel, like the number of times we've used Uber. I mean, just from a customer
• 20:14
  experience standpoint, I'm definitely not impressed at the moment. And you know how you say,
• 20:18
  invest in what you know and do your friends loving the product and blah, blah, blah,
• 20:21
  everyone complains about Uber over here. So yeah. So then it might be looking at, okay, what other
• 20:25
  apps are they now using instead of Uber? Are they public companies? Like all of them?
• 20:30
  Oh, yeah, this is bad if you. Yeah, it's like, okay, they publicly listed,
• 20:34
  are they growing their number of users? Are they taking share from Uber? Yeah. Okay.
• 20:40
  Cool. That would be way to look at it. Cool. Bye.
• 21:00
  Well, Sirius, could you please leave a review? Because it really helps other people find
• 21:03
  our cute little podcast. And we hope you have a good week and see you next Monday. Bye.
• 21:08
  Bye. So yeah, see you next Tuesday. Wow. See you next Tuesday. I mean Monday.