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Intention and Sophistication · The Talent Trade

0:00
Welcome to the Talent Trade.
0:02
I am your host, Stephanie Maas, partner here at Thinking Ahead, executive Search.
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I am a dork about this business.
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I always have been at this point.
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I'm gonna guess that I always will be.
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I freaking love it.
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And this is gonna be talking about one of my all time favorite parts of our business, which is the business development piece.
0:22
So today's topic is business development with intention.
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Here at Thinking Ahead.
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We primarily focus on three core ways that we do business development.
0:32
By the way, we call it marketing, business development, whatever you wanna call it.
0:36
But basically where we are proactively trying to go into our respective markets and get somebody to agree that if we show up with the right talent, they will in accordance pay us.
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That's what our business development or marketing is.
0:50
There are three primary ways that we teach this at Thinking Ahead.
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The first way, not in any order of importance, but the first way is through the MPC.
0:58
This is where we have the talent.
0:59
We go into the market saying, could you use somebody like this and would you pay me for 'em?
1:03
The other area is what I call the blind squirrel, and this is literally if you just show up.
1:09
Ask enough biz dev questions, you will literally stub your toe on a search and it's off the, even a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and again.
1:17
So that is just kind of our mantra for saying, just get on the phone and market.
1:21
Even if you don't know what you're doing, you will stub your toe if you make enough effort.
1:25
The third way is what I like to call, or what we call the relationship building or the relationship management.
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It's also pipeline development or pipeline management.
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This is the drip marketing system.
1:41
How do we execute this idea of business development with intention in a pipeline management, relationship, building, whatever you wanna call it, mentality.
1:53
How do we actually do that with intention?
1:57
The reason why I love to use this word intention is when I talk about recruiting.
2:01
One of my favorite things about recruiting is how I get to use my brain.
2:07
You know, one of my favorite self-deprecating things to say about myself is I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.
2:11
I'm not the dost, but I'm definitely not the sharpest.
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But one of the things I love about our business is that when we really get to engage and use our brains.
2:23
I was a business major.
2:24
I do like sales, but what I've learned about myself is the kind of sales that I like.
2:30
The way I like to do it is in a very soft, highly consultative, highly influential type of model.
2:40
And once I figured this out.
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That recruiting could happen this way and be tremendously successful.
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I was literally white on rice.
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I mean, I just latched on and I, I, I just love that I get to use my brain.
2:53
And over the years, this is part of what I have been able to incorporate into my desk that I have, I have just seen payoff in huge dividends.
3:01
So here is what we're trying to do in trying to accomplish, when we do business development with intention, there are three stages of client development.
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The first stage is everybody that we are reaching out to is in what we call the suspect category.
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So the first category is literally our list of suspects.
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This is our two to 300 names we put in our drip marketing system.
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These are people we want to do business with.
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These are people we've done business with in the past.
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Usually there are five to seven contacts per organization because.
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We market in biz dev like a web, so this is everybody in the suspect category.
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The second category is a prospect.
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Then the third category is a client.
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Let me also explain that these three categories.
3:56
Are incredibly fluid, and just because somebody can go in one category doesn't mean they're there forever.
4:03
So what I want you to first do is understand from a holistic picture that our goal is to be moving somebody from suspect to client through the prospect category.
4:13
But it is a very fluid thing.
4:16
So every conversation we have, we are constantly reevaluating, Hey, where are they?
4:22
And how can I either navigate them to the client or stay in the client?
4:26
Those are the three different categories.
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The first category is where we're gonna spend most time because this is where we really start to understand our place with this suspect.
4:39
When somebody is in the suspect category, there are three things that we need to answer to decide if they get to move forward into the prospect category.
4:51
They cannot move forward until we get a yes to all three of these questions.
4:58
And again, to really implement this consistently over time, we've gotta be pretty engaged in the conversation.
5:06
When you hear the answers to these questions and when you hear what they're not saying in regards to these answers, this is the difference between a good recruiter who's good at BD and a phenomenal recruiter who's phenomenal at bd.
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Here are the three questions.
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They're gonna sound super simple.
5:22
The first question is, do they have a need?
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Right?
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Do they even have talent needs?
5:28
Second question is, do they need us?
5:32
I like to throw in there in parentheses, do they want us as well?
5:36
Sometimes we're desperately needed, but the relationship is so adversarial because they really don't want us involved, that it almost makes it impossible for us to do what we do best.
5:47
So again, the main focus is do they need us?
5:50
But again, when you wanna get in advance, you can throw in do they want us The third question.
5:57
Is, do they have the budget to pay us?
6:02
If we get a yes to all three of those questions, they can move into the prospect.
6:07
Now, before we get there, let's talk about how do we ask these questions in a way that really.
6:14
Develop a relationship.
6:15
We don't compete on price, we compete on relationships.
6:19
Yes, sometimes it comes down to price, but at the end of the day, that creates a vendor environment, not a relationship.
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And that's fine.
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We do business with vendors.
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I mean, we, we have clients that they're vendors and we're their vendor.
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But for the most part, when we're talking about really developing long-term core business, we're not looking for vendor relationships.
6:36
So number one, do they have a need?
6:39
Now, here's a rookie mistake.
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When folks first get into search, what they are really thinking about when it comes to biz dev is they go, Stephanie, all this sounds great.
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Uhhuh, Uhhuh, Uhhuh.
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But my dashboard says that I need to win a search, so I am gonna call people.
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Looking for who has a need now.
6:58
And that's exactly what we sound like to these suspects.
7:02
It's, do you have a job?
7:03
Do you have a job?
7:04
Do you have a job?
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And because so often our timing isn't that impeccable, that they just happen to answer and go, oh, praise B.
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Thank God.
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A recruiter called, yes, we have a need.
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Yes, let's dive in.
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Thank you for calling.
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Rarely.
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Is that what's on the other end?
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So when we hear a, any kind of objection, then we go into, oh yeah, okay, maybe they don't have a need right now.
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Let me ask a couple other questions and then I'll get off the phone.
7:30
And this is the huge mistake because this question of do they have a need is where we can really start to insert our value and show how we're different.
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So instead of the mentality of, Hey, I need to win a search assignment because that's on my dashboard and I'm just gonna call people looking for a search, instead, what I want you to think of is, Hey, I know if I call a hundred BD people sometime in the next four weeks, I will get a search.
7:59
So that allows us, when we get on the phone with someone to have a little bit more sophisticated consultative conversation, and that's our first differentiator.
8:09
Hey Tom, Stephanie Moss with Thinking Ahead.
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I specialize in commercial banking here in the Mid-Atlantic.
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I think we know a lot of folks in common.
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Somehow we don't know each other.
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I wanted to reach out, take a quick professional introduction, and when the time's right, we'd love to talk to you a little bit about what we do and how it makes sense for us to stay connected as it relates to talent on your team.
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Did I happen to catch you with a couple minutes, Tom?
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Most likely he's gonna gimme an objection.
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I'm sure you get inundated with calls.
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I'm sure you don't have any needs right now.
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In fact, quite frankly, if I happen to call you at that magic moment, I'm gonna ask that you, hang on, I need to go buy a lottery ticket.
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'cause today is my lucky day and I love diffusing these things with humor.
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So instead of saying, Hey, do you have a search for me today?
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I just wanna get to know your world.
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Tell me about your team, and then we get into some good, thoughtful questions.
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Tell me about your team.
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Tell me about upcoming retirements.
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Is there anybody on a bip?
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What's your growth plans look like?
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How did you discover those growth plans?
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What's, what's creating those growth plans?
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If you're in your traction mode?
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What's going on?
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And again, I don't know all of your individual niches to be able to give you good, sophisticated questions, but you do.
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This is step one, and this is where we spend a lot of time just gathering information, listening.
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Again, I don't care if they have a need or not.
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I just wanna start developing this relationship again.
9:32
Man, I would love if I called you and today was the day.
9:36
It's not.
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So let me tell you the other reason why I'm calling.
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Let's you and I talk, I'm an expert and talent in your field.
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My guess is if you're running a team of some sort.
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You at some point need talent.
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Let's talk about that.
9:49
That's it.
9:50
Let's just go and say that.
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They say something that isn't an absolute no, I don't have a need.
9:57
Okay, now we wanna transition into the second is, do they need us?
10:01
By the way, when we take a lot of notes, most of our biz dev calls are gonna be spent in this first question.
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We take a bunch of notes and we go, Hey Tom, I really appreciated your 10, 15 minutes today.
10:12
It was, you know, really nice getting to know you and your team.
10:15
Again, based on what I've heard, it doesn't look like y'all are even gonna be considering any additional talent.
10:19
It's till Q1.
10:20
What I'd love to do and what your permission on is, let's just stay in touch.
10:23
By the way, I hopefully have shared with them what I'm seeing and hearing in the market.
10:27
I'm a big believer in give to get.
10:28
If you're having a hard time getting someone to open up, that's when you bring in third party selling.
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Hey, let me share with you what I've been learning from some of your peers, some of your competitors.
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Here's what we've been hearing in the market.
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How does that resonate with you?
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How's that different than what you're seeing?
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Stay in touch.
10:43
I'm not gonna bug you.
10:43
I'm not gonna send you anything unsolicited.
10:45
I'm gonna shoot you a quick email.
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I want you to have my information.
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I'll call you in a couple months.
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Just check in, see how things are going.
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Is that cool?
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I've never had anyone say, no.
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It's path of least resistance.
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They're like, yeah, okay, that's cool.
10:56
Call me in a couple months, whatever, whatever.
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And at that point, they're ready to get off the phone anyway.
11:00
So they don't wanna fight me with, you know, oh no, never call me again.
11:03
And we've just had a conversation.
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Please notice I wasn't directly selling anything.
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I didn't even, I don't even talk about what we do here at Thinking Ahead.
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I don't talk about my process.
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I don't talk about what makes me different.
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But this is what makes us different.
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This is where consultative selling is the art of what we do.
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This is where selling through influence.
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I don't need to sell anything on that first call at that time right now, because they don't have a need.
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All I wanna do is the next time I call 'em back, I want them to either pick up my call or return my call, or if I send 'em a newsletter, if that's my next point of contact.
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I don't want them to hit unsubscribe.
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That's it.
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Now, let's say they go, wow.
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It is interesting that you would call, or sometimes y'all use language where you're intentionally calling and you say, Hey, I saw on your website you had this position, or I heard you were looking for this, or whatever.
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I just wanted to call touch base.
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I'd be curious, how's the search going?
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So if you are calling with that kind of intention, like you think they might actually have an opening, we'd never jump into question number two.
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Do they need us?
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We go back to question number one.
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Let's verify the opening.
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Somebody could accept an offer and starting in three weeks and the posting's still up 'cause they're not taking the posting down to the person starts.
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So we gotta start at the beginning.
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Hey, yes, you're right.
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You saw our posting.
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We are looking for an X, Y, Z. Awesome.
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Most rookie recruiters, most of our competition, they wanna jump in right away and start selling.
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That's not us.
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That's not sophisticated.
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So instead we say, Hey, how's it going?
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What's it been like?
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I've heard all kinds of crazy stories that I've heard.
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Some people say they literally got inundated with hundreds of resumes.
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I've heard some say they've got 30 resumes and you know, 28 of 'em were bartenders.
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What's, what's your experience been like?
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Silly question, but educate me, I don't think we've done work in the past before.
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What does your typical process look like when you have an opening?
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Walk me through how you partner with your internal talent acquisition.
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Again, gaining information.
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We haven't said anything about thinking ahead.
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We haven't said anything about why you need to partner with us.
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Just gaining tons and tons of information now.
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What's so great?
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Once we spend all this time getting all this information, then we can go back and have an even more educated conversation.
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So let's say they go, yeah, which is going fine.
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Blah, blah, blah.
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Okay, great.
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Again, love to stay in touch.
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You never know, blah, blah, blah.
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Go back to the clothes that I did on the first one.
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Love to stay in touch with you, blah, blah, blah.
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But then you call 'em back in a month and you go, Hey, I just wanted to rally back.
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I know last time we spoke, you mentioned you wanted to give your internal folks.
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Three weeks to see how they did.
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Sorry, it's been four weeks.
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Things have been crazy around here.
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How's it going?
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What's it like?
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Have you found your person, by the way?
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I thought, you know, I've heard a couple things out in the market I'd love to share that might be timely.
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Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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This is where we elevate, this is where we use our brains, said super lovingly.
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Now all of a sudden, and again, you can leave that message that in a voicemail, and again, all I'm looking for is to start having conversation where people wanna talk to me and they're willing to call me back and not unsubscribe.
14:04
Now, let's say.
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We get on the horn with them and they go, Hey, it is interesting that you would call.
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We do have a need.
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We've been at it for X amount of time.
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We are getting really frustrated and we're not finding what we need, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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So now we think they may be saying that they need and or want us, and at this point us is just a generalization for an alternative solution.
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Okay.
14:29
So in the past, when you've gotten to this point.
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You mentioned you've partnered with other firms.
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Tell me about your experience working with search firms.
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But after I ask that question, man, I shut up.
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This is where they need to talk and we need to listen now.
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I know some people are like, yeah, it's been fine.
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Let it get awkward.
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They will keep talking, but we so quickly jump in and go.
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Yeah.
14:51
Okay, thanks.
14:52
Next question.
14:52
That sounds sophisticated.
14:54
That's impulse buying.
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That was me at Trader Joe's last night buying cereal because it looked like they had some really good cereal.
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It wasn't on my list, it wasn't in my budget, but I walked by and I was like, oh, damn, that looks good.
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Put that in the cart.
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That's not sophisticated.
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That's not thoughtful.
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So instead, just be quiet.
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Let 'em talk.
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Listen, listen, listen, listen.
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Chances are, even if they are a decision maker, they are not the only decision maker.
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So now usually if we get a yes, they, they have a need.
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We think they may need us or a search firm and have desire.
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By the way, if you hear like, man, we need a search firm so bad.
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And this sometimes happens with internal talent folks, but man, I hate when we have to go to a search firm.
15:33
Oh, tell me why it comes out of our budget.
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I get dinged and it hits my promotion, blah, blah, blah, blah.
15:40
Okay.
15:41
Is there ever a scenario where you'd be thankful to work with a firm?
15:44
Yeah, I hate it when it happens, but if I don't get these filled, then I'm fired and I have X amount of dollars.
15:49
I mean, you know, if you just ask questions, people will start telling you things.
15:53
If we get a, they have a need and we think they may need us, we've gotta ask the smart, hard questions.
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Hey, do you have a firm that you consistently partner with?
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Are they your go-to before you would even consider anybody else?
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Do you have someone you would go to first?
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And by the way, that's a, it sounds like a bad question 'cause it's a yes or a no, but what I'm interested in is what is their answer?
16:21
Yeah, we do.
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How convincing does that sound?
16:25
You go.
16:25
Okay.
16:25
Well, tell me what, I'm just curious, what made you partner with them?
16:28
How long have y'all been working together?
16:29
Oh, you just have a vendor that you let no, that you have an opening and they submit.
16:33
Oh, well that's not a real partner.
16:34
Not, I mean, we don't say that, but that's what we think.
16:36
Right.
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Let me share with you a little bit about us, or if they're like, yeah, we've been working with the firm for 10 years.
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They're our go-to.
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Blah, blah, blah, blah.
16:43
That's a different answer.
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So even though it's a yes, no question, what they say and or how they say it, what they don't say gives us a lot of information.
16:52
If they have a need, they are not the only decision maker.
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They may be a decision maker.
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So that's what we need to do next is try to get on the horn, Hey, who else has to be a part of this?
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Tell me about what's going on in your world, and then we can expand the call.
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Is this now?
17:04
Do you have another 10, 15 minutes to talk about this?
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Or you reschedule and you try and get their boss on the line.
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You try and get somebody from HR on the line or whatever the case may be before you hang up.
17:14
You can find out the answer to number three as well.
17:17
Hey, if I'm hearing you right, sounds like you've had this position open for a while.
17:20
You've done the internal thing, you've done this over here.
17:23
It might be time to think about partnering with a search firm or alternative solution.
17:29
Lemme just ask you this question.
17:30
I'm not saying I could, but if I could show up with the absolute perfect candidate tomorrow, would y'all have the fee to be able to pay to hire that candidate?
17:38
And y'all, I like to use the numbers.
17:40
Would you have the 25 grand?
17:41
Would you have the 60 grand?
17:42
It's not, would you have the money?
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Because that's vague.
17:46
That's not sophisticated.
17:47
You, you need to hear if they go, yeah, that's, that's in our budget, that's fine.
17:51
Or if they go, oh, I don't know.
17:55
Okay.
17:56
Well, yeah, sometimes you don't know until you ask.
17:58
But let's set up a call and then, you know, if you set up a call, the first question you gotta find out is, do they actually have the budget?
18:03
So these are our three.
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Do they have a need?
18:06
Do they need us?
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And can they actually pay us?
18:09
'cause that's what we do.
18:12
If the answer is yes to all three of those, they now become a prospect.
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And we set up a call with usually multiple decision makers.
18:20
We now set up a call to get the details of the search assignment.
18:24
We set up a call to talk about who we are, how we do business.
18:27
Sometimes that next call, the prospect call, is two or three calls.
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This is the first time that we actually start talking about who we are and what we do.
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And I love to say, Hey, let me just share with you super fast how we're a little bit different.
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Why folks have shared with us that they appreciate partnering with us in the past.
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When I go to have that conversation, these are my cheat sheet notes, it's three points, and I go, here's how we're different.
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This is what people say they appreciate about working with us.
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Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
18:53
I can deliver it to my elevator speech.
18:55
I can deliver it in about 30 to 45 seconds.
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And then I ask a open-ended question, how does that compare with the search firms you've used in the past?
19:03
It's a great way of saying, we're a little different.
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Are you open to talking about that?
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And if they go, well, that's exactly how we've been partnering with firms in the past.
19:10
Awesome.
19:11
Do you need to be talking to me about this?
19:13
I mean, trust me, I want your business.
19:14
I say this all the time.
19:15
I want your business.
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I am happy to earn your business when it makes sense, but if you don't need us, I don't wanna waste your time.
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I just wanna be respectful.
19:24
That's the prospect.
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Then what is super fun and the prospect calls.
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Is we get to take the search assignment details.
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We get to take, we find out about what their hiring process is like, who all else the rest of the decision makers are.
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You can find out, hey, I'm going to, you know, if, if you think you can work this and this is your wheelhouse, nail 'em down to go ahead and get three interview times.
19:46
If they're hesitant, then maybe it's not a great search In the prospect time, this is where you start to determine, is this an A search, a B search, or a C search?
19:55
We'll take 'em all 'cause we fill 'em all.
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We know we're gonna have a lot more enthusiasm about on A or B, how to determine if a search is an A, B, or C.
20:03
That's another whole conversation, so I'm not gonna delve into that.
20:07
But during the prospect call or calls, this is where we make that determination and that's where we decide, Hey, is this an A, B, or C search?
20:17
And then whether, whatever it is that determines the level of effort we put into the effort.
20:21
Once we've done all that, that's when we get fee agreement, fee negotiations, all this kind of stuff.
20:26
If all of that clears, they actually become a client once they pay a fee.
20:33
So if you never fill the search, they are still a prospect.
20:36
And in fact, they may actually go back to being a suspect.
20:39
Clients by definition, who are actively paying fees, which in my mind means they've paid me a fee in the last 12 months and we are working together.
20:50
I have some clients, quote unquote, that I have to go through job boards.
20:55
In my mind, they're always a prospect.
20:57
'cause if you have to kick me to a job board and I have to look at a job board to get my answers, I will take that work.
21:03
But I'm never gonna consider them a client and they don't consider me anything more than a vendor.
21:07
And that's fine.
21:08
That's just business.
21:09
But again, I've already made that determination during the prospect calling because I determine that hey, they're a C client, but they hire and they'll occasionally pay if I show up with the right talent.
21:19
Again, we spent most of our time on suspects because that's where we set the stage for everything else going forward.
21:26
These are general thoughts or maybe some nuances in your world.
21:29
This works super well for me and I did not make it up.
21:34
The last couple years have probably been the biggest blessing for me as it relates to business development coming in.
21:42
Because I haven't had the same amount of time to dedicate to phone that I have in the past, and I just have to think that it's finally coming my way because of course, always how we treat people.
21:56
But I've also gotten opportunities to work with folks because of how, Hey, I got a call today from a guy and literally he took my call once every five years and on the 15th year.
22:09
He said, okay, it's time.
22:11
I'm ready to make a move.
22:12
Isn't that crazy?
22:13
'cause now he's in a hiring situation, so I just have to think that there's enough evidence to say that this stuff works.
22:18
Again, it may need some modifications for your niche, but hopefully this was helpful and good use of your time.