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Transcript

Olivia Donnell - Channel Growth Lessons · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Partnerships Underwell, the podcast where we underval the mysteries about channels and partnerships on a weekly basis.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Effe and I'm excited to introduce our special guest, Olivia.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Olivia, how are you doing?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good, Effey.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit cold today, hence the big jumper.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really cold here.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Amsterdam doesn't really get snow usually, but today there's a thick layer of snow outside, and I just have to stay inside do this podcast, and I'm dying to go out and play in the snow.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Go and build a snowman.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a bit the same.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Got lots of snow outside the window.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm really excited for the episode, Olivia, and thank you for joining us.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I would love for you to give a little bit of an introduction, tell us who you are, where you come from.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, for those who may not know who you are.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, perfect.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Olivia.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm based um on the wonderful Causeway coast in Northern Ireland.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I live about six miles inland from the coast, so I'm very, very lucky that I have all of that on my doorstep.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, recently relocated back.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the great thing about flexibility, remote working is people get the opportunity to move home again.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I did after 26 odd years living in England, um, which were lovely.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it was time to come home.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I um currently they may a channel director at OnePassword, and I have been in the channels for over a quarter of a century now.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Which scares me when I put it like that.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you once again for joining us.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Really excited for the conversation.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want to start off by saying I love OnePassword.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've been using it for ever since I started at Chen X, and it's just uh such a time saver in my life.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh, but I would love to, you know, talk to you about like more in-depth about the channel, your strategy behind it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when we were kind of preparing for the podcast, I've noticed that you have a background in distribution.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something that I noticed running the podcast that a lot of leaders that we had on the podcast have that background that they start in distribution, and they also talk about that it gives them a different uh perspective.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: It it kind of teaches you a lot because you get to see experience things on both sides.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: You understand the partner side and the vendor side.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to me about how that background and distribution uh led your led to the the how you view the channel today?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I do think it's a phenomenal foundation.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the opportunity you get to learn from a young age.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was young when I accidentally tripped into sales in the IT channel.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: It certainly wasn't by design, it definitely was by accident.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um find myself at a at a distributor, didn't even realize I'd taken a sales show for about six months.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, you get a huge commercial grounding.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you really do get a business grounding.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of what distribution does is very business outcome focused.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you get exposure to PLs very early on, you get exposure to planning cycles very early on.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And because you're going in to talk to a partner about their business and where their business is going, um, as opposed to when you're at a vendor, I use a phrase vendor vanity.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's very easy when you're at a vendor to be consumed by just your own world.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, observations over the years are, you know, some vendors think that, well, this partner must have me in portfolio because I'm the best thing since sliced bread.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but if that doesn't align to what their business is doing, then it's an uphill battle.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the great thing about distribution is you sit down with partners, and a lot of people and vendors, etc., don't realize this themselves that these levels of conversations are going on, and that the distributor in many instances is guiding the partner towards what is next in technology, where to place a bet, because they they see it early.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there's some some of the I'll I'll say it many times, I'll keep saying it, some of the smartest people I've met in my career work in distribution.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I would also, you know, some of the smartest guests that we have on the podcast also, they have background in distribution, they they currently work in distribution, and it's kind of also amazing me how distribution kept up to date and kept reinventing itself over the years because you know I also always talk about it, but there were so many occasions where people talked that like distribution is dead.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think most lately must they're like what the high people are.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard that so many times as I you know distribution's been dying since the day I joined it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: But you know it's a medical miracle.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and and I don't think it'll ever go away because of that critical intelligence layer they provide in the channel and the guidance um and that central funnel.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people are running their own businesses as a partner.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have time to talk to 400 vendors, they can't hire an army of people just to talk to vendors.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I personally struggle to see distribution ever going away.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Evolve, yeah, for sure, but go away, definitely not.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I fully agree with you.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at least for the foreseeable future, I don't see it ever going away and unless the world changes tremendously.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: But that's I think in the long future.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the world the world's always changing and evolving.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think they say every 20 years or something big, right?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and we're in the this 20 years big is AI.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the amount of education that's needed around this topic is huge.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And there's only really one place in my mind that's going to educate people properly, and that's our distributors.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and also I feel like the the AI shift kind of also my prediction is that will make or maybe already made uh distribution a bit more relevant because the thing with what distribution is really amazing is that they have a lot of data, right?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think they have a lot of data on their partners, their vendors to, you know, they have insights on cross-sell upsell opportunities.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like now with AI, they can what AI I think lets you do is that really uh leverage that amount of data that you have.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think they have access to uh really critical and important data.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think well uh that's one of the reasons why I think it will they will still continue to stay really relevant uh throughout the AI revolution.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean data has been distribution secret weapon for a very long time.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um they know how to use it, they know how to use it for profit, um, they know how to use it for business intelligence, um, they know how to clean it up, but also they know how to turn it into a work stream.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, you just mentioned it, AI can't be more intelligent than the data over which it reasons, right?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's from the the chap who came up with the concept.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you it's all very well going around saying the word AI, but it's a big topic and it needs to be chunked down into its relevant parts.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: You need to understand what data you're working with, what outcome you want from that data, and then it's gotta all be secured, you know, or it could turn into the wider west very quickly.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it can also give very bad results.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I've you know, at a personal level, I had a a letter from my bank that has resulted in a serious complaint for me to that bank.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty confident AI's been involved in that letter being thrown out, and and and and it's you know, it's had a detrimental effect on them, not a good effect.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, I'm gonna be interested to see where this goes actually, because I'm like, I I see AI's hand here and and that's it's it's not gonna get it's not turned out well, guys.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I I I'm always a bit weary about talking about AI because I feel like I am not the expert to talk about it.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's why.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody is, yeah.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody is.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And if anyone can be older than the guy building them, then they might be Pinocchio in a little bit.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're at the point where I think like everyone is talking about it, but no one is really truly an expert about it, except a few, I think a handful of people, I would say.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I want to talk a little bit more about I think your history, uh your um history in the channel, you found yourself in distribution.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but then you also later on worked at Dell Storagecraft uh Quest software and you're currently working at one password.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk me through maybe what were the biggest lessons that carry across each of those experiences that you had also after distribution?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: My biggest experience is to listen to your partner, right?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: To to actually have a business conversation with them about what their go-to-market is um and where they're placing their bets and how they're compensating and focusing their staff.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because your partner is an extension of your own sales team.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say to people who are just a chain of salespeople, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have misalignment in any of those points, then you're not going to get the results you want.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's really important that vendors stay respectful to their partners and their business and don't be arrogant about, well, we've got the best technology, and lucky you that we're allowing you to sell it, which is an angle I've come across in my career.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I must admit, not necessarily in anyone you just listed, but I certainly seen and felt and heard it in all their places.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I it's almost like stay humble, right?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because that partner is running a business for profit as well.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're employing people, they're having to place their bets.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be relevant to the bet they're placing.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: It can't just be all about you.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that does root back to distribution, right?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Where you're not selling a single vendor, you're coming at it from a business perspective in what is on the mind of an end user, right?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then putting yourself in that mindset to, well, where do I fit in to solving those solutions?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the end user's not sitting there going, Hey, I heard about this vendor, I want to buy it.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, they're saying there's something affecting my productivity, there's something affecting my workforce, you know, I've got a problem with HR, whatever it is, and that's a problem they're going to solve.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they're going to come to a partner because the partner talks to them about their entire infrastructure and this date and all of their deployed SaaS.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we all know there's a skill shortage in the market, and end users can't attract a talent themselves, which is why they have to go to partners where that knowledge exists.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, my biggest takeaway from I guess distribution to vendor and across that is approach your partner with respect.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Don't approach him in a condescending manner.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, lucky you, you can say all my stuff.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So what?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I love you because you talked about you use a term that I really like, vendor vanity.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a lot of vendors go to parties and they talk as if that here's why we're the best, here's why you should work with us.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes it's often forgotten to actually hear about the other side, empathetic like be empathetic about their business, them as a human, try to understand how you know that partnership might really be built.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that also this is like the the space has become so competitive.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there are so many great vendors out there, there's so many great technology, so many great programs.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I feel like that's also now it's even more important than ever to really have a good understanding of your partner base, be close to them because things are shifting really quickly.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like, you know, to avoid your partners churning over time, you kind of really need to understand where they're coming from, what they're struggling with, to build uh a right solution, a right program, you know, the right incentive that will work for them.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when I first started in the channel, you know, it was very closed doors and you know, walls of steel between partners and vendors and stuff.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we all know a lot of technology, right, starts at a consumer level, or you know, subscription abduction increases when we all start doing it ourselves, you know, with with various streaming services, etc.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so you have to collaborate, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you have to look at complete solutions, and there isn't a single vendor out there who can solve every problem.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think if you've only focused gnarly on the problem you do solve, you're missing an opportunity to actually be more relevant.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you sit down and say, Okay, well, you've got this in your environment and that in your environment, then here's the the got you're the potential areas for risk, and here's an area we can support you with.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: You you can't just sit down and focus only on your own little window, um, or you're actually doing the end user and the partner a disservice.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really important to collaborate now, as something the MSP space is very good at doing, to say, this is what good looks like.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is what actually delivering this service looks like, and it takes multiple vendors to solve those problems.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's got complicated, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's got super complicated, which is why end users are coming back more and more to partners to say, I just don't have the people, the time, and the bandwidth to solve this problem because it's not my primary business objective.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I need your help to sort it, please.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, and that includes hardware and everything as well.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Something always makes me smile in the SAS word is you know, do you think the ferries run all this stuff, right?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's there's still hardware somewhere, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So so let's be respectful to your colleagues in those organizations as well, because their kids still gotta run it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you talked to start talking about MSPs, and I know that you're very MSP focused.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: How I see MSPs are like they're brilliant technical businesses, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to but like when it comes to technical stuff, the engineering side, that's what their bread and butt, that's what their focus is.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: But oftentimes when I talk to MSPs, they really struggle with marketing and customer acquisition.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: They'll usually have a set of customers that they work with, maybe they get some through a word of mod, but there's really no um strategy or cadence behind in marketing customer acquisition.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, do you feel like this is a problem?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like more MSPs should be starting uh to look at marketing and treating it as a core capability?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think again it comes back to where they are as a business.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's certainly something I've seen.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it is a change.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I say, when I first started getting really close to the MSP market, you've seen a lot of businesses that were privately owned, um, you know, very localized, um, had grown organically, grown through word of mouth.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they weren't necessarily looking to acquire extra business.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as that landscape's evolve, people have retired out, they've sold up.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing these bigger national MSPs and international MSPs emerge, um, and they are starting to market and and position themselves almost heading up towards the SI side of the world.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it again, it it's back to having a conversation with your MSP because vendors certainly something we we offer at one password is where you don't have a marketing division, we'll come along and help.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we'll give you the content, we'll give you the materials, we'll give you the use cases, um, and we'll we'll support you in acquiring new business um and helping.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of them, you're right, they have engineering staff, brilliant, engineering staff, but they don't necessarily always have the more sales or commercial staff.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's where vendors really can make a tremendous difference to an evolving and growing MSP is by bringing in that skills and expertise that they don't have in their own business right now.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I know a lot of MSPs do really appreciate it when that kind of support comes from their vendors as well.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure that they're really grateful for that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to talk about kind of the one of the nuances of your job, Olivia, is to figure out which partner will be right for one password, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not every partner is a right fit.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: How are you, you know, talk to how are you defining, how are you qualifying partners when it comes to selecting which partners to work with?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know what I encourage my team um to do is it's old-fashioned, Epi.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's get on the phone and have a conversation, right?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do your research, do you know, make the effort to go onto their website to have a look at what their go-to-market is, to have a look at the sectors they're focusing on.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because you you can easily qualify yourself out just from the website, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what I've seen a number of times is people pick a partner name just because of the name and because they're very large or they're active in a specific area.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and that, yeah, that can be great, but when you dig into the next layer, you start to find out that actually for the next three years, they've decided they're going to go and focus heavily over here, or actually they have a solution stack that's pretty locked, and there's another vendor in situ already, and you've got to be growing up enough to say, I can go and burn a load of sales cycles trying to make this partner fit in with us, or actually I can go and look at other partners who evolving into this space, are looking for a partnership, or are in this space, want more options, there's a bit of the puzzle missing, and going and slotting in there, not just picking a name because it's an aim.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can waste an awful lot of your life by doing that.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it goes back to what you talked about, like being close to partners, having a conversation with them, trying to understand where their business priorities are, and then try to see if you actually fit into that instead of going to the partner, pitching your product, explaining why you're the best and why they should work with you.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, always going to their technical teams as well.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and taking their technical teams through the technology to see if there is a space for you in their solution stack.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, technical people are, you know, the unsung heroes of our channel, um, and vendors as well, right?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um they are the people saying, yeah, we see this problem coming up a lot with our end users.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: We either don't have a solution today, or we do have a solution, but it's not quite answering and solving the problem that we you know consistently see from an end user.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we're willing to have a chat.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about mapping into the right contacts in the partner as well.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And being respectful of their time, right?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, go on to them with a a real reason to go to them, not just, hey, I'm this vendor and I'm brilliant, so you should sell my stuff.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like we know you're working with end users of this profile.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing these problems a lot.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Here's how we're solving it for them.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Are you interested in adopting this as well?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's that that value-based conversation is super important.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean programs are brilliant.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: They give you structure and they give you predictability as a partner.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: But a program doesn't solve an end user's problem.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Technology does.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to go and have that technical conversation with them as well.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: You you said um, I wanna kind of rewind back and highlight one of the things you said the technical people are the unsung heroes.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: We've been I've been having conversations on the podcast, especially that I've been hearing a lot that there are talent shortages on both MSP side, partner side, lender side, distribution side, and I think it's starting to become a growing challenge in the ecosystem.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, first of all, do you see this problem?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Second of all, what do you think is our responsibility in kind of overcoming this problem?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the things that I'm also seeing is that a lot of the entry-level jobs are disappearing as well.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like uh it's kind of hard to see where this, you know, it we have talent shortages in one hand, and on the other hand, we don't have a lot of new people entering into the space, especially in technical roles in the channel and cybersecurity.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's your takeaway from all of this?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Tino, I I I think Effie, my takeaway is we've got to do a better job of getting into schools early.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I my mind's a bit blown, there were some statistics in the UK just before Christmas about the number of people out of work in a certain age bracket.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, you know, surely the need right now has never been as great for, you know, school leavers, university leavers to get them into these apprenticeship programs because somebody has still got to write the script for the AI, right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't do it on its own.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: There still has to be people involved.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, the infrastructure still has to be put in place, the deployment still has to be put in place.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we need to do a better job of encouraging people into the field and helping them understand, you know, being in the technical space doesn't mean coding, right?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can come in and be an engineer and establish and understand and establish vendors' technology and learn how to deploy it effectively.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't feel like we use language that encourages enough people into the field.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: It it we almost make it sound scary.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why shouldn't there be apprenticeships as there are for a plumber or an electrician?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because what they have to learn is just as you know, difficult or easy, whichever way you look at it, as being a solutions engineer in technology.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think the problem's going to be solved by the industry in its own without deep links in the education sector.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I fully agree with you.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks so much, Olia, for the conversation.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I have one last question before I let you go.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: That is, we always end the podcast by asking our guests to invite, invite, uh, nominate uh future guests on the podcast.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you think we should have?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, do you know what?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to stick with this topic, and I'm going to say, have a sales engineer on your podcast.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Get their point of view, not mine on what I think might be the problem or may not.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a great chap I know, Kevin Rasdale, Scottish, keeping a Celtic.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would suggest go and see if he is willing to have a chat too about his over a well over a decade uh as a solution sales engineer out there in the channel.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your recommendation.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think we've ever had a sales engineer on the podcast.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to uh yeah, point of view.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And Kevin, if you're listening, I'll be reaching out to you soon and hopefully we can get you on the podcast to hear your perspective.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Effie.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, and see you in the next episode.