Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 1089: Back 40 - Are You Hunting Buck Sign or Predicting His Next Move?

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Ep. 1089: Back 40 - Are You Hunting Buck Sign or Predicting His Next Move? · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, what is going on? Welcome to another episode of
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Back 40. This is Jake Hofer, and we have our
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: panel of guests for another question or dilemma that a
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: lot of people are probably kicking around right now. It's
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: October 29th. You've likely had your cameras out, you have
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: historical data, and you're trying to make a game plan
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and trying to anticipate where the deer may be next,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: so you're not chasing your tail all season. And so
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: this week's question is, is should you be where the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: buck has been or where you think he will be next?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: I know that sounds pretty obvious, potentially, but we asked Dr.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Bronson Strickland, Tony LaPratte, Skip Sly, and Jason Michael this
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: simple approach, and there's some great hunting advice for this
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: time of year, the end of October, the very beginning
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: of November, the time of year we've all been waiting for.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: So I hope you guys enjoyed this episode of Back
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: 40 brought to you by Moultrie. We're going to kick
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: things off with our scientific chairman, Dr. Strickland. All right, Bronson,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: welcome back to Back 40. Now it's October 29th, and
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: excitement is almost to a fever pitch as a whitetail hunter.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: And more than likely, we talked about bucks shifting around
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: in the last episode that we did. And now in
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: this scenario, a new buck has showed up. And the question,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: on a scrape, either on a field edge, maybe in
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: a bottom, maybe adjacent to bedding area, and maybe each
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: of those variations will have a different answer. But the
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: simple question is, are you hunting where the buck was
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: or where he's going next? Because I feel like there's
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: a short window of some form of prediction before rut
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: chaos ensues. Based off of your research, based off of
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: your observations, should I be where I got him on
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: camera or guessing where he'll be next?
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Personally, I would go for where he was. So we
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: know for a fact that this buck was here for
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: whatever reason, because it was food or dough or it's
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: a good travel corridor, et cetera. What the research shows
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: is basically bucks will utilize, I call it a circuit.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: And so whether you have a food plot as the
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: anchor of that circuit or, you know, oak trees, whatever,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: is that you will see, and it may be a
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: day or two or three, but they eventually will keep
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: circling back to those places. And so my strategy would be,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: if I know he was there, I would use that
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: opportunity while he's not there to move in. How am
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I going to get in, you know, with a good downwind,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: minimize disturbance as much as possible, and just wait him out.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: And that's why it's hunting, you know. There's going to
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: be more unsuccessful days than there are successful days, but
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I would think that would be I think you'd have
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: a higher degree of success using that strategy than me
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: trying to predict where he's going to be, especially if
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I don't have other photographs maybe on the property where
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I know he could also could be. So I would
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: stick to where I know he was.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: So we would want to hope that lightning strikes twice,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: and the second time it strikes, you're there in that scenario.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's pretty reliable. He will be there. Now,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: he may come back there at 3 in the morning.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: But the data are showing he will be back. You
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: just got to hope it happens during daylight hours and
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: you're in the tree.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: What about, you're going to have to dig a little
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: deep in this. As far as, you know, like when
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: people look at, they get a trail camera picture. A
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: lot of different variables are just even on the timestamp.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: And then even with the apps now has like what
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: the wind direction was, the barometric pressure, all these different things.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's a worthwhile endeavor to pay close
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: attention to where I got a picture of this buck
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: and it was a Northwest wind on October 29th. And
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: so the next Northwest wind, and it was daylight in
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: this example, I need to be in there. Do you
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: think that's a fair data point or is it, or
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: does it not carry as much merit as maybe what
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: we hope?
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Um, I think I would lean on the side of
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: not as much merit as we hoped. And here's why
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I say that we did. Um, and we're still looking
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: at this, but, uh, looking at movement relative to prevailing wind. And,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: you know, everyone goes into it, including me, thinking that,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: you know, a majority of the time they are going
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: to have their nose into the wind. It makes perfect sense.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: The data don't show that. The data show that just
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: as often when a buck is moving with his nose
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: in the wind, the wind can be at his back
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: as well. And so there's just not any clear signal
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: with the evidence that that is going to be very reliable.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And so generally, it's either mostly nose in the wind
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: or at their back, and there wasn't as much of
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a perpendicular or flanking wind. It seemed like it would
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: be one of those two. And the logic is, too, Jake,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: eventually they have to turn around and come back. So
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: if you had a Northern front of prevailing wind from
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: the North, eventually they got to turn it around and, and,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: you know, get back to the bedding area or back
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: to the home range. So, um, I wouldn't put that
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: much weight in it myself.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: What about, um, for this period, like let's say the
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: 29th to the 12th, so much is going to change.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry that this is biased to the Midwest.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I apologize.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: That's all right.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Um, there's so much that happens between the 29th and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: the 12th in terms of deer behavior. Um, How different
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: is the 29th to November 7th when it comes to
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: hunting strategy and deer behavior? I'll let you answer the
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: open-end question. I'm curious.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so you begin to see an ascent in
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: movement behavior. Their movement rates are picking up. So they
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: are beginning searching, search strategies and things like that. Not
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: as much as during the peak of the rut, But
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: you will see relative to, say, September and October, you're
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: going to see that movement rate increase. So a greater
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: chance of an encounter with a buck as you get
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: later and later into October, assuming, too, you're at the
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: place where he may, if he's going to shift, you're
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: in the place where he shifted to.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: How much does weather impact movement throughout this time period
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: as well? Or is it just put up shots and
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: hope for the best? And what I mean by shots
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: is it's not crazy shots.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Well, the way we look at it is we kind
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: of partition all of that into they have to move
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: every day, period. So we try to dispel these myths
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: of the deer are, quote, moving today and they're not
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: tomorrow or the day before. They're moving every single day.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: We see increases in the morning and in the afternoon.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: They're a crepuscular animal. We see increases during the rut.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: So nothing is going to supersede those two things. There's
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: nothing that's going to overwhelm and supersede that. But we
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: do see some very subtle increases with the cold front.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: So it's not going to be like they doubled their
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: movement rate. But in the data, the signal is very clear.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: that they move a little bit more when it gets cooler. Now,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: we didn't see anything like with rainfall. Didn't see anything
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: with that. And what becomes difficult with people like with
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: the barometric pressure and with humidity and with the thing
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: that makes that difficult is all of those are correlated.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: And basically, the reliable signal is when you have a
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: front come through. All of those things are changing. Wind direction, temperature,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: often precipitation, humidity, all that stuff changes. But within that,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: when you unpack that into what do we see the
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: most consistent signal, it's the drop in temperature. That's what
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: we see consistently.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: So fronts are the lead domino for that maybe 10%, 20%, 30%
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: multiplier of movement. Easiest way to maybe say that?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 30% may be too strong. I think I might
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: go to 10, 20 at the max.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: Oh, man. Yeah, sorry.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: At least down here with our data. But again, I
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: would rather hunt. Let's frame it like this. I would
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: rather hunt during the rut with unfavorable weather than outside
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: of the rut with this perfect front coming through.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Interesting. Very interesting. So really, at the end of
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: the day, you need to be where the buck was
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: throughout this period and just simply, for lack of a
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: better word, hope for the best and be observant and
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: make adjustments as needed. Yeah, put in your time. Put
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: in your time.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: They are going to utilize that circuit. And again, whether
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: it be a complete home range shift like they did
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: the year before, they are probably going to be back.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Within that home range, they are going to visit these
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: spots that you have a history of catching them. They're
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: very likely going to be on that trail again. They're
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: very likely going to be in that bedding area. Maybe
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: not the bed, but in that bedding area again. And
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's just you getting in a good vantage
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: point to where when they're utilizing that circuit in between food, cover, food,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: looking for does, Oftentimes when they're utilizing food, it's not
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: to eat. It's because that's where does are. And so
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: they're looking for estrous does. So just thinking about it
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: from that standpoint.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: One last question to wrap this up. Do you feel that...
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you know, quote-unquote good days, we know the 9 out
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: of 10 days, 10 out of 10 days, whatever algorithm
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: you look at, do you think the success tied to
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: that is more hunters afield trying to capitalize on that
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: opportunity than the 10%? Like when you say a 10%
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: increase in movement, pretty, pretty minor to be completely honest,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: but I feel that hunters go a field with so
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: much more confidence and are maybe more attentive to where
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: they hunt, how they hunt and have the perception that
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: today's the day versus a crappy day, quote unquote. And
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: they're like, well, I just got to go to see
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: if I get, you know, there's an opportunity. Do you
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: think that is a route to some of that success?
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: I sure do.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: It's kind of different ways of looking at the data.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: this really good day could be because the weather conditions
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: were great. It was going to be really comfortable to
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: hunt that day. You had more hunters in the field.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: As such, more deer.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Were harvested, more bucks were harvested.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Because there were more hunters.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: The other way of looking at it, like when we
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: were talking about the weather or temperature or the way
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: we look at it is when they're on their feet,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: How much ground are they covering? What is their movement rate,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: yards per hour? And we see it a little bit
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: more on those cooler days. Another way of looking at
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: it is percentage of daylight hours bedded. And so we
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: see on those cooler days, they aren't bedded as long
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: as they are on the warmer days. So they're on
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: their feet, and when they're on their feet, their movement
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: rate is more. That is why I think that their
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: exposure rate would be greater on those days. And you
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: would have a greater likelihood of seeing him.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Okay. I like it. Well, thank you for that insight.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Where is the best place for people to track you down?
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, either on social media or on the web. Just
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: go to wildlifeinvestments or wildlifeinvestments.com and you can see what
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: all we're about and what we do and hopefully how
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: we can help you.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: All right, there you guys have it. That's Dr. Strickland's
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: approach to this time of year. with this question. And
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: it seems pretty obvious, be where he's been. And I
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: often think that there's a lot of guesswork and we
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: all want the concrete answer. We all want the, this
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: is what to do. This is the right thing. But
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: oftentimes you have to go with your gut instinct a
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: little bit, but having some scientific basis as we get
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: into more of these questions is a great starting point.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: So next up, we're going to go with Tony LaPrat
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: from Michigan. Here we go. All right, Tony, it's good
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: to have you back on the Back 40 series. Yep.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Like I said, we're going to be working through the
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: whole entire remainder of the year and some of the dilemmas,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: some of the questions, some of the things that really
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: all hunters or most hunters fall into of just different issues.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: So this one is a conundrum with cell cameras, previous
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: year information, but are you hunting where the buck was
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: or where he's going? And mind you, it's late October.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So there's so much changing. The floodgates potentially will be
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: opening in terms of rut activity, depending on what part
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: of the country you're in. So are you hunting where
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: he was? or where he's going to be next?
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: Well, here's how it is. I start hunting around the
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: 25th of October. Most years in the last 12 years,
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: I've killed my buck in less than three days. Okay.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: Out of half them years, I killed him on the
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: first day. So when I'm the 29th, a good chance
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: my buck already has died and I haven't even went
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: out until the 25th. What I do different than everybody else,
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: I kind of just mentioned that in the last one.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: I program him all year to come by my kill zones.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: So I'm giving him all these things and making it
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: a social hub, and every buck wants to swing through
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: that spot because there's so places to communicate. I make
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: sure there's many things. There's 20 things by my stand,
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: and I don't care which one he comes by. All
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: I do is know that he can't walk by it.
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: He can't be 100 yards away because his whole instinct
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: is everything I need to know is over there. So
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: most guys, I look at their stand sites, and they're
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: pointing in the wrong direction, first of all.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: What's the right direction?
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: Well, this is off the story a little bit, but
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: actually good. 90% of all stands, probably it's higher than 90%,
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: is pointing towards the food plot or towards the open part. Now,
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: here's just simple as this. You're setting in your stand.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: And what comes out first? The little button buck. He
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: walks out about 30 yards in front of me and
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: starts eating. And pretty soon, here comes the group of does.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: She scans and looks both ways. And then she flicks
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: her tail and she heads out. As soon as they
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: get out there, they turn around and look back at
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: the woods. Because why? The field, they can glance in
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: two seconds and see nothing's coming there. So they're watching
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: where something can come running out. So they're all eating,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: looking towards your stand. And you're sitting there watching these
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: 10 does eat. And you're thinking, yeah, this is great.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: And all of a sudden... And I shoot all my
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: bucks sitting down. I only stood up one time shooting
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: my buck. Okay? Most guys stand. The reason they stand
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: is because they don't understand how to make deer, kill
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: them where they need to be, and then they move
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: too much. You will stand. You will shift weight. You
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: will look around, and you move. When you set, you
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: can set motionless for hours.
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: That's why I set. Standing people will give away clues.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Don't.
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: Clean across the field, we'll look at you. So anyhow,
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: now all of a sudden these does are all eating,
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: and they're looking towards the woods, and all of a
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: sudden at one second they all lift their heads, and
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: right here sets the double drop tying buck you've been after.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Right there.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: 20 yards, and you're like, oh, my goodness, I'm going
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: to kill him. The problem is you've got all them
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: does staring at him and you. So now you've got
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: to figure out how to move all the way around
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: to shoot here. Okay? And some little fawn's going to
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: catch you, and you're going to see the buck, but
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: getting him killed is going to be impossible. All my
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: stands are a quarter turn into the woods. Here's why.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: All bucks, I make trails inside the woods for them
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: to follow. They like to be just inside the cover,
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: so they're peeking out. Then I make where he comes
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: out to my style, where I want him, at the distance.
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: So now, if he's in here and I'm quarter turn,
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: I got him.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: He comes to my ultimate lookout that I designed, and
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: there's a bunch of detail to that. I got him.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: He wants to work my scrape line. I got him.
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: He wants to go out and chase the does. As
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: he starts to move, I can cover the whole field.
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: Setting down quarter turn in lets me kill from here
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: to here. Now... 69 bucks on the wall.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: 75%.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Or more is right here. So guys are always got
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: to stand facing away from where they're going to get
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: their kill shot. So they got to turn around, move,
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: and always watch it. And I go, guys, out there
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: in the field, if you've got to stand to shoot
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: the buck out in the field, it means you really
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: don't understand deer because this is where he feels comfortable.
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: And so you're setting your stand up to shoot him
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: where he's most uncomfortable and the shortest window. And also,
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: it's usually during the rut when you ain't predictable. This
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: is predictable. So most of my stands are quarter turned
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: into the woods.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: So... let's say, um, this is just, just, you have
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: your stuff figured out. So this is just me, imaginary
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: me calling you October 29th and saying, Hey Tony, I've
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: had this deer. He's been in this bedding area, you know,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: one of the last three nights, the middle of the night, uh,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: last year, it seemed like he, early November, he was
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: kind of over in this area. What, what kind of
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: move or what advice would you give to someone? And
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: this is a, a farm that's 10% set up or 25%
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: set up. So there's a lot of missing puzzle pieces.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: And you got to read between the lines with me
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: being like, ah, man, this is a really big deal.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I really want to kill him. Yeah.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: Well, the only thing you can do is go with
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: what information you have. But the point is I learned
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: a long time ago, learn what that buck does every day,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: how he thinks and what he wants at different time
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: and make sure them things are by your stands. And
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: most stands I can walk up to them, And I
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: wouldn't waste one day of my life setting in them.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: And I'm not being rude. I'm actually being honest. Everybody
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: really wants a guy like me around them because I
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: don't mean nothing by it. But I go, you got
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: about a 10% chance killing that buck in that stand
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: because he's only going to ever be here 10% of
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: the time. You need to start making it so it's
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: every place. So here's my driveway. I always tell everybody,
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: I travel all over the country to do ultimate landmines,
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: do about 100 a year, okay? All these different states.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: But you know where I go more than any place else?
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: My driveway. So if you were hunting me, you don't
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: want to sit on the toll road in Ohio and Pennsylvania.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: I may come by you, but it could be two months.
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: I said, first of all, you need to get the
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: buck to bet on your property and design his whole
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: world on your property, and you're going to kill bucks easy.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Until you have that, that's why all these guys are
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: doing all this guessing. They buy a ton of gadgets.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: I use none of it. Because why? I broke it
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: down to simple what he does and make simple stuff.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: And so I don't have all the gadgets out there.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: And there ain't nobody kills bucks faster and quicker and
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: sees more bucks in a shorter period of time than me.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: And I use nothing at these big deer shows. You
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: have a good weapon, learn whatever weapon you choose, how
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: to be efficient with it. And then you use your
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: mind and everything I do is more at a hardware
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: store than it is at a sporting goods store to
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: make my property great.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: What are a few things that are worthwhile to have
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: next year to your stand in this scenario? That could be,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: you could add, and this is, you know, this is
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: going out. This is, you know, it's now. So, like, it's,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: you know, there's not a licking branch here. You can
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: hang that in there when you go, like, some of
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: those things.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you definitely want a bunch of scrapes. So,
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: during the scrape period is when it's most predictable. If
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: you're hunting a stand, you don't got 10 scrapes within
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: your shooting distance. You don't understand big bucks because a
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: lot of guys are sitting on a food plot where
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: there ain't even a place to make a scrape. Right.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: And what does most properties do when they make a
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: food plot? They cut all the branches off so they
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: can get in there and farm. You want to know what?
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: The food may only be there for 30 days, 60 days.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: The licking branch would have brought him for 12 months.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: He don't care if the food's there. As long as
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: there's a licking branch, he'll go down through there. You
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: don't understand licking branches to connect the dots to how
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: he travels properties. And where he's going even on another
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: property all determines the licking branches. So there's one thing
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: that you need to make sure you have on your property.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: But there's a hundred scenarios. You know, guys, just talking
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: about the stand being in the wrong point. The other
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: thing is most people are hunting on two bigger food plots.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: Here's a buck. His whole life's about hiding, especially when
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: you get a four and a five and a half
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: year old buck or older. His whole life is about
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: being sneaky. And this guy is sitting on a food
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: plot that you can literally see 400 yards across. Do
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: you really think a buck that's hiding all day long
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: wants to walk over to this edge of this woods?
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: And here he's been in cover and he can see
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: to him 20 miles the way his mind works. And
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: he's going to just walk out there calmly. That's why
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: most guys are sitting in a stand and go, I
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: wouldn't waste one day of my life. That buck doesn't
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: feel safe enough to go out there. You got to
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: make sure once you get a buck at a certain age,
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: what is he like to walk into? Are you making
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: sure your food plot setup is something that he feels
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: calm in instead of a big food plot? You get
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: guys who want to put a stand out in the
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: middle of the food plot, which is the dumbest thing
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: you could ever do in your life. You better be
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: a rifle hunter because you're going to need it. I go, guys,
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: I don't care what weapon you use. You can be
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: a total gun hunter. And I go, what you want
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: to do is make that buck feel calm at 30
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: yards by your stand. I don't care if he's got
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: powder burns on him when you're done shooting him. You
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: should make him feel calm. If you have to use
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: your rifle to shoot at, you had to hunt a
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: lot to get him to stand out in that field
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: because he don't want to be there. When a buck
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: is calm, he's easy to harvest. When he's nervous, it's
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: hard to do. And I go, most guys don't realize
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: their whole set up And then when guys see something wrong,
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: instead of really thinking it through or coming to a
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: place like my place to learn all these different little tactics,
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: they start buying gadgets. So now they're out making a
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: ton of noise out of their stand, rattling, grunting, and
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: all the other stuff. They're trying to throw a decoy
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: out there. And it's a domino effect. One mistake brings
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: another mistake. And I use none of that stuff.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: None.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: And guess what? Every buck is zooming by me all
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: day long. And why? It's built through their mind, not mine.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: Most stands are designed through a predator's mind. I become
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: the animal and go, here's what he wants. So I'm
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: hiding him, making him think he's all slick and he's sneaking,
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: and he's standing right where I want it. I'm one
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: step ahead of him. And that's how I actually kill
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: big bucks. That's how I show people to do that
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: at my boot camps.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: So, yeah.
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: That's why I'm one of these guys. I get on
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: the internet. And just the other day, cause you said
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: you were coming and, and you know, I don't know
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: nothing about things. I don't get on nothing. You asked
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: my wife, I've never turned a deer show on that
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: TV in my entire life. And I've only seen little
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: segments when I've been at somebody's place and they're getting
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: around and it happens to be on. When I start
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: looking at stuff, most of it's one-on-one. I'm amazed at
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: what guys are trying to explain. And it's like, and
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: they're not holding back. They ain't like a guy like
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: me that is that, Charges for all my knowledge of
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: all my years of studies. They are trying to show everything.
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: And I go, they left out 10 things that's important. Now,
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: either they don't know it. Or they're not covering, I
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: don't know which it is, don't matter. A guy gets
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: on there, it's like misinformation because it ain't solving all
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: the stuff. That's why I'm not trying to be rude
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: when I'm talking. But if I'm not going to cover
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: all the details, I'll at least tell you there's more
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: to the story. Now, it's up to you whether you
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: get it or not get it. That's okay. But I
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: don't want to think that you think that you just
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: got my system when you didn't. I don't mind going
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: out and giving people 10 things that I know will
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: help them. But I go, guys, there's a lot more
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: than that. That's why I said I don't care how
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: many big bucks you've ever killed. You come to my
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: boot camp. I'll change the way you hunt because there's
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: so many more tactics you can use to make your
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: job easier and also to use up more time of
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: big bucks so they don't get killed on the neighbors. Perfect.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: So in a perfect world. You're going to know where
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: he's going to go because you've developed and designed this
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: area to where it's this high probability.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: And that's why I don't like the rut.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: Because it's the only time I can't pick. I don't
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: know what girl came into heat last night. None of that.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Which next week we'll have you on and we're
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: going to dive into the rut. And so once again,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: it's ultimate land management.
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: And then the whitetail boot camp.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Whitetail boot camp. All right. Next up, we have Jason Michael.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: He hunts all across the country and has already hunted
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: multiple states this year already. And we're going to get
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: his take on capitalizing this time of year based off
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: of a little bit of Intel and a little bit
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: of guessing, because ultimately that's what it is. So here
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: is Jason's answer. All right, Jason, welcome back to back 40.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: It's now October 29th. And, um, hopefully some of us
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: in the last episode, they have a new buck to hunt. And, uh,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: this kind of leads into this next question, this next dilemma.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: And that's really what the back 40 is, is we
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: all fall into these same traps and ruts and thought processes. And, uh, hopefully, uh,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: We try to demystify some things and give people a
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: sense of direction for the next two weeks, arguably the
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: best two weeks if you're a whitetail hunter. So my
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: question for you, are you hunting where a buck was
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: or where he's going next? And it's kind of a
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: loaded question because no one knows exactly. But what's your
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: answer to that?
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Ultimately, I would want to know hopefully where he was
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: and have some sort of knowledge of where he's bedding.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Or if I just got my eyes on him, say
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: passing down the road and I'm like, oh my word,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: I just showed up into my destination state and I'm
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: there a day or two and get some stand sets
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: riding around and I get my eyes physically on him.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: I'm going to try the best I can, maybe use
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: an onyx, look things over, especially if it's public or
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: a new private farm or lease where that bedding is.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: And then I'm going to look and see where the
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: crops are. Then I'm probably just going to very quickly
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: out the window or with binoculars, analyze the crop.
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: Is it beans or corn?
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Is it harvested?
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: Is it not harvested? And just try and find that
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: destination area where I'm now guessing. I'm surmising only at
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: this point, trying to put the little pieces of the
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: puzzle together. And then I would probably do, like you'll
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: hear Adam say, you know, on one of your more
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: recent podcasts, Adam A's observation stand. I'm taking my bow,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to watch. And I have no knowledge,
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: no trail camera knowledge, for example, and I'm going to
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: find out where them does are stepping out. And after
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: about one at the most two evenings of doing that,
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: then I'll probably move in on him. And yeah, I
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: don't know. And again, this is just me being me.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Like I've said in the, in the more recent podcast,
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: I'm not going in there and blow that place up.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: I'm going to keep it simple, stupid.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: It's almost November, Jason.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, but we're going to go in there
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: and I'm going to, I'm going to hunt from the
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: outside in and just start working in on it.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Let's, uh, let's throw another monkey in the wrench here. Um,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: It's October 29th. This deer has been kind of hitting
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: a scrape on an inside corner of a field. It's
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: in staining corn right now. And then two days later,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: you open up the app, check your cell camera, combine.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: How do you proceed from that point? Because at this time,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: there's so much change. Hunting pressure is increasing. Row crops
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: are changing. Depending on what part of the country, we
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: probably have had a hard frost. And so a lot
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: of the lowland grass, the reed canary grass is starting
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: to lay down. leaves were falling. So there's so much change.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: How do you take all that into consideration to where
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: he's kind of like, man, it seems like he's been
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: partial to this area. And now that we took this
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: corn away or whatever the case may be, where is
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the next spot? And if there's any sort of pattern
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: or tips that you can share with anyone.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Ultimately to me, the corn's off. So the food source
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: just went through the roof and I mean, in a
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: better way. So I'm going to relish that moment. And
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: then Again, depending on what I can see with my
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: eyes or I could test the waters and go back
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: in maybe 100 yards deep, it starts getting thick. The
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: quicker it starts getting thicker or identify rubs or scrapes
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: kind of quickly, I'm not going back in 300 or
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: 400 yards. I'm just not doing that. Again, this is
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: if I'm pretty new to this property and I'm just
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: getting there and I'm just trying to get set up
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: for the first time. If I owned it for three
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: years or four years or leased it or had private permission,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: that would probably be a different scenario. But To just
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: go in and do a quick assessment of it, I'm
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: going to do my dangdest to find out, what, you know,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: you said about that edge scrape, and I'm going to
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: backtrack that just a little bit. And then I may
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: go back in and get into what, you know, the
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: old school days of calling that staging area. And then ultimately,
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: if I'm back in the woods, 50, 60, 70 yards comfortably,
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: that when I get down to maybe 30 minutes after dark,
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: when I think the coast is clear, a forked horn
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: passed by, some does pass by, maybe he didn't come
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: through that evening. that I can get down and just
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: belly or a banana shape back deeper into the timber.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: I'm like a cat as much as possible. I won't
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: go out towards the edge of that field. Even if
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: I did bump them, I want to bump them mildly.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Do you think there's any truth to the idea, you know,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: October 29th to November 12th of the rut is sometimes
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: complex and also sometimes pretty simple. And one simple way
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: to say, how do you hunt the rut? You get
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: downwind of doe bedding. Do you think that's a fair
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: strategy for someone to, you know, the most simplified version
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: of hunting over the next two weeks? It would be.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: But again, October 29th was the key scenario from a
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: start date from then on. So we're still in like
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: peak scraping. And some of that peak scraping, as much
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: as you can kill a deer over a mock scrape
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: or get on his scrape line 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: And I think historically, Jake, you've even identified with your
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: cameras 17th, 18th, 19th of October.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: If the weather hits right, yeah.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: Was actually better.
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: Than the 24th, 25th. Mm-hmm.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Camera-wise, surveillance-wise. But yeah, I'd just be still being like
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: what you call, now you're a really intense pre-rut hunter
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: at this point. The 29th of October going into like
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: November 3rd, 4th, 5th is super intense, and it's still
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: a scrape period. Onesie, twosies, those does are coming in,
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: make no mistake about it, but one, two, three percent.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: But still, you're going to catch the majority of those
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: deer hitting the scrapes, coming out, that third and fourth
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: of November is still super huge for pre-rut, and they're
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: still coming out, circling the does in the field and
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: bumping them. Lockdown's still five, six, seven, eight days away.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Just my observations, about till November 3rd, from the 29th
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: to the November 3rd, pattern's very similar. And then from
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: that point on, obviously you're still going to get pictures
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: of bucks on scrapes and everything else, but that does
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: seem to be a particular window. If you have one
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: in mind right now, have an idea of where they're
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: hanging out. I feel like you have, what, 29th? 29th, 30th, 31st,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: you know, six days?
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? Have you had similar observations?
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: No, that is almost dead on the money, and I'll
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: go back as far as 50 years ago when the
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Wenzels wrote their book, Barry and Gene Wenzel, Bowhunting October,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: White Tails.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Pioneers of the Space.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Pioneers, and then come November, my favorite book ever in
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: the Whitetail world. October 27th till November 3rd. That's what
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: they said in the book? Dynamics.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: 50 years of bow hunting white tails and then in
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: fine print on the cover and paying attention. 27th of
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: October to November 3rd.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Do or die. That's it.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: It's night and day from October 20th and it's night
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: and day from November 10th on. It's its own beast.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: And it is ultimately the time to truly get a
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: deer out of his bed coming And where a grunt
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: call or snort wheezing, mock scrapes, it is the window.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: November 10th, for the most part, it's too late. October
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: 20th is still on the head of it being effective.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: And last part of this, I'll give you 30 to
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: 60 seconds to describe where you think this deer's headed next.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Thick bedding area on a, and it obviously depends on
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: the part of the country, but on an oak flat
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: that's thick on a point. Like what, when people are like,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: oh man, you know, I hump between this transition or
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: the staging area. and have a great opportunity over the
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: next six or seven days, where would you, if you
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: had to boil it down to the most basic terms
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: of where that buck is likely spending a lot of time?
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Bet it. For this time period.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Where is he going to be located?
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bet it. Yeah.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: The thickest, most undisturbed spot he can find. And it
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: may only be 70 yards off that still standing field
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: or potentially cut cornfield.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: It doesn't mean, oh, he's a big deer. I got
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: to go 400 yards deep, even though I'm hunting a
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: 2,000 acre piece of public maybe at a destination spot.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: But those deer for the most part, and that's a
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: whole broken scenario there for another time. But when he
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: leaves at 4 a.m. or 5 a.m. in the morning,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: or even before you're parking your truck, he's pretty much
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: heading back in. If it's like October 20th, 25th, even
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: November 1st, they're still lagging behind depending on where you're at, um,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: it isn't like they go back in bed in the
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: same bed every day, that six foot by six foot
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: square area. And it isn't like the spring gobbler gets
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: on that same exact limb every evening for 10 evenings
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: in a row. It just doesn't work that way, but
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: he's going to go back in, you know, let's say
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: he's a five and six year old deer, these upper
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: end deer that we're trying to even get a, get on,
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: have a chance to hunt. Uh, He's going to go
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: back in bed based on the wind, the thermals that morning,
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: or just what's going on. And he's going to bed
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: in an area that gives him the most advantage of survival.
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: Perfect.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Jason, where can people follow along with your season?
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: JasonMichael803 on Instagram.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: And closing things out, we have Skip Sly, born in Michigan,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: hunted all across the Midwest, and has observed a lot
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: of deer behavior, a ton. And although he has private ground,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: he has intel and cameras everywhere. an experience on small properties,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: big properties, and ultimately observant of what bucks do. So
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: here is Skip's answer for this week.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: It's October 29th. Okay. Exciting time of year.
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: I'm tagged out.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: That wouldn't be the first time someone answered that so far. Okay.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: It's October 29th and you have a whole month of
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: intel of this buck. It's October 29th. Are you hunting
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: where he's been or where he is going next in
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: your opinion?
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: The only time I'm doing it is if I know
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: where he's going is if I'm a very seasoned hunter,
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: I know the history of that deer and I know
• 35:46
  Speaker 6: where he shifts. If I'm the average guy that's like, Hey,
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: I got permission on this farm. You, you're just making the,
• 35:53
  Speaker 6: obviously you don't have any data. You don't have any
• 35:55
  Speaker 6: history to go off. So if you really can't know.
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: So if I, I mean, I would say if I
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: have a historical context of the deer, this is what
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: he does. I'm always going to try and get ahead
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: of him.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: And, uh, you know, how often does that actually work
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: or like play out where, man, it's October, it's the
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: end of October, this buck showed up on a scrape
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: and he's here for like two or three days. And
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: then maybe he goes somewhere else. And does that make sense? Yeah.
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: And, you know, people who are extremely seasoned hunters that
• 36:21
  Speaker 6: really spent a lot of time at this and really,
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: you know, get to a deeper level with this, we'll
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: know where to place themselves later. And, and I'll know, like,
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: This deer kind of moves to the southwest corner of
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: my farm. And if I hunt this corridor every year
• 36:37
  Speaker 6: in November, he starts cruising through there and his range shifts.
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: You just know that stuff. If I'm the casual guy,
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: you know, I suppose the same thing would be part
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: of the plan. But, you know, it's just trying to
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: get ahead of him. Um, with any Intel, just give
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: it your best world.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: And do you think you're, you're kind of behind the
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: eight ball if you just go to where, where he
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: has been for like the last three or four days?
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: And it's the end of October where, like, do you
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: think that's a fair strategy?
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: I would try it.
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: If he's been somewhere three days in a row and
• 37:12
  Speaker 6: I say, what's the chances he's there in the fourth day?
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: It's reasonable.
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: I'd give it a whirl. I'd give it a whirl
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: at least one time.
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: And then if you're like, Hey, I gave it a
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: whirl one time, go back the next day and try
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: the next play, you know, chess thinking these levels ahead.
• 37:26
  Speaker 6: And I would look at the week, like if I
• 37:28
  Speaker 6: had a whole week, I would start thinking, okay. And
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: I'd start looking at the winds and be like, you know,
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: by three days from now, I know where I'm probably
• 37:37
  Speaker 6: going to go. Four days from now, I know where
• 37:39
  Speaker 6: I'm going to go. And I'd probably rotate around based
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: on the wind, based on the weather. And then it's
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: just a probability of, I think I'll have a chance
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: at them.
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: And that's all it is. You just have, you just
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: think you'll have a chance at them. And that's all
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: I want. And what do I do? what do I
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: want to like a guaranteed? Some people do.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Some people do.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: And that's lame.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Um, what this describe, I'm just curious actually for, if
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: you had to just describe it's October 29th to November 3rd,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: describe where you are most excited to be on a food,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: on a green food source, on a pinch, uh, downwind
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: of bedding, like from, from that perspective.
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: How about in my own bed? Just sleeping in. So no,
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: I do like late October and early November. I like
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: the cold mornings and I like spots I can slip
• 38:40
  Speaker 6: in and just still get them a little bit on
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: that feed to bed movement.
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: They're still a little bit.
• 38:47
  Speaker 6: They're not, they're not going bananas all over the place
• 38:50
  Speaker 6: by then. They're just, they're just chasing that, that big
• 38:53
  Speaker 6: loop bed. food and in between.
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: So I'm just covering that, covering that corridor.
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: And in the mornings, it's always generally, it's a spot
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: I can slip into like an example. And there's a
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: million example, of course, but example would be like, okay,
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: I got cattle pasture where it's almost like a deer desert.
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: And I call cattle pasture, like, like I like it
• 39:13
  Speaker 6: because it's worthless. So I use the cattle pasture for
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: access to sneak in the back door. And it might
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: be out another directions of food And then the, the
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: cover is over here and I can use a cattle
• 39:25
  Speaker 6: pasture to get in with the wind maybe blowing in
• 39:27
  Speaker 6: my face.
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: You know, that's one of a million examples.
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: And then I can get in there real early and
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: sit till 10, 11 o'clock. I mean, whenever the action
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: kind of slows or, and I, and if it slows,
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: I still want to sit another hour, hour and a
• 39:41
  Speaker 6: half after that. And then the evening, October 29 to
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: early or whatever the dates are.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: November 3rd.
• 39:49
  Speaker 6: Would be like kind of, you know, your scrapes around
• 39:54
  Speaker 6: the food, you know, like egg fields that just got harvested,
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: maybe a food plot area where they're doing a lot
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: of scraping and those bucks are coming into the food
• 40:02
  Speaker 6: to check the does and kind of, they're starting to
• 40:05
  Speaker 6: get away from scrapes a little bit, you know, and
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: maybe they're making some scrapes, but they're probably, their attention
• 40:10
  Speaker 6: is more on the does by that point. So, you know,
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: you start getting around the food with the does in
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: any context, and that could be eight You know, if
• 40:19
  Speaker 6: there's acorns around, if there's a pick field, if there's
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: an alfalfa field, whatever, just wherever they're feeding, just trying
• 40:25
  Speaker 6: to get around there and getting as close in there.
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: So the does are coming out and then the bucks clearly,
• 40:31
  Speaker 6: I mean, obvious are going to follow. And then, you know,
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: just having a spot that I can get out of
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: there undetected or, you know, if I do have trouble,
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: then I have alternatives for the next few days. So
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: I'm rotating my spot. So I'm not hunting that spot
• 40:46
  Speaker 6: over and over and over and ruining it.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: Perfect.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Okay. Best place to find you?
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: Iowa Whitetail or on my farm or in the woods.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: All right, there you guys have it. I hope you
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: guys enjoyed this week's episode of Back 40. We're going
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: to be back on November 2nd talking about the rut,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: and I hope you guys have a great end of October,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: a strong start to November, and we'll be here for
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: another episode of Back 40 with our panel of guests.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: I hope you guys get a cold front, get some
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: rut activity, and able to soak in this moment that
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: we've all been waiting for I know the temperatures aren't
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: great I know everything's not going to plan remember this
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: is what we've been waiting for so we'll see you
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: next time