Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / INFANT-GIRL STOLEN AFTER PARENTS MURDERED 4--YEARS AGO FOUND AFTER DNA MIRACLE

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INFANT-GIRL STOLEN AFTER PARENTS MURDERED 4--YEARS AGO FOUND AFTER DNA MIRACLE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A tiny baby girl goes
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Speaker 1: missing when her parents are murdered. What happened to Baby Holly?
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:24
Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM
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Speaker 1: one eleven. First of all, taking listen to our friends
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Speaker 1: at KPRC. Holly Marie Klaus, the baby girl, along with
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Speaker 1: her parents, Harold Deane and Tina Lynn, vanished in nineteen
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Speaker 1: eighty one. The remains of the couple were found somewhere
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Speaker 1: on Wallaceville Road in dorotheast Harris County, but they were
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Speaker 1: not identified until last year when investigators used genetic testing.
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Speaker 1: On Thursday, investigators revealed Holly was left at a church
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Speaker 1: in Arizona and taken into care. But there was two
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Speaker 1: women who identified themselves as members of a nomadic religious
1:01
Speaker 1: group who brought Holly to the church. They were wearing
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Speaker 1: white robes and they were barefoot. They indicated the beliefs
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Speaker 1: of their religion included the separation of male and female members,
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Speaker 1: practicing vegetarian habits, and not using or wearing leather goods.
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Speaker 1: The women indicated they had given up a baby before
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Speaker 1: at a laundromatt. This sounds straight out of a mystery novel.
1:24
Speaker 1: The parents are murdered, the baby disappears, then she's basically
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Speaker 1: left by people wearing robes and barefoot? Is this real?
1:39
Speaker 1: With me and All Star panel to make sense of
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Speaker 1: what we know right now? James Salnutt twenty seven years metro,
1:45
Speaker 1: major case and swat now lawyer at Shalnut Law Firm.
1:50
Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz for psychologists specializing and criminal law. She
1:55
Speaker 1: wrote Where Law and Psychology Intersect and Criminal Behavior. Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 1: Founder Director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Jeffrey M. Jensen,
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Speaker 1: Professor Forensic Pathology, Director of Autopsy and Forensic Services, University
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Speaker 1: Michigan Medical School. You can find him at j M
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Speaker 1: Jensen at gmail dot com. Colleen Fitzpatrick, President, founder of IdentiFinders,
2:23
Speaker 1: President and founder of IdentiFinders International, and author of Forensic Genealogy.
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Speaker 1: But first to Dave Matt Crime online dot com investigative reporter, Dave,
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Speaker 1: tell me what happened to the parents in this case?
2:37
Speaker 1: You've got Harold Klaus Junior and his wife, Tina Klaus.
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Speaker 1: The family calls Harold Dean Klaus Junior, Tina Gelin. They
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Speaker 1: were in a WorldWind romance in the mid late seventies.
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Speaker 1: They got married in nineteen seventy nine Juna seventy nine.
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Speaker 1: They had a pregnancy right off the bat and had
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Speaker 1: baby Holly. They moved from Florida, where all their family
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Speaker 1: lived out to Texas to Louisville, Texas in nineteen eighty.
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Speaker 1: The last time the family had contact with Harold Dean
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Speaker 1: Klaus and Tina Gael Lynn was in October of nineteen eighty.
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Speaker 1: They had a lot of contact until then, but then
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Speaker 1: all the contact ended. The next thing we know is
3:26
Speaker 1: the first week of January, a dog, a hunting dog,
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Speaker 1: wanders out of the woods with a human arm in
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Speaker 1: its mouth, and of course that's when the police are
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Speaker 1: called and they find these two bodies. Okay, wait, let
3:41
Speaker 1: me let me just right there. To Sheryl McCallum, Founder
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Speaker 1: Director Coal Case Research Institute, that's telling me a lot
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Speaker 1: about the killerers of Harold Klaus Junior and Tena, Klaus's wife.
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Speaker 1: They're murdered and they're left out in the woods, their
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Speaker 1: bodies only foul in. A hunting dog retrieves a human arm.
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Speaker 1: What does that tell you about the killers? Well, I
4:06
Speaker 1: believe they were buried, so it tells me that this
4:10
Speaker 1: took some time to bury two people. I believe the
4:15
Speaker 1: gentleman was bound and gagged still and beaten to death,
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Speaker 1: and the female victim was strangled. So again it indake
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Speaker 1: indicates to me it might have been more than one person.
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Speaker 1: I've always believed it was more than one person to
4:29
Speaker 1: overcome to adults. And you've got the man bludgeoned dead
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Speaker 1: and the woman strangled, two different modes of death. Now,
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Speaker 1: of course, to doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist, you often hear, wow,
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Speaker 1: that doesn't fit this. Let's just say serial killer because
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Speaker 1: it's a different modus operandi, method of operation. But that's
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Speaker 1: not necessarily true. We see serial killers deviate from their
4:58
Speaker 1: normal emma. So that doesn't mean that there were two people.
5:03
Speaker 1: But it's highly suspect. I think there was more than
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Speaker 1: one killer. Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. Serial killers
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Speaker 1: usually don't travel impacts, that's true, so it is highly
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Speaker 1: likely there's more than one killer. But you're correct, they
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Speaker 1: do sometimes change up their modus operanda. I'm looking at
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Speaker 1: the two victims right now with their baby, Harold Deane
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Speaker 1: and Tina Gael Klaus. Here they are pictured together with
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Speaker 1: their daughter, Holly Marie. At that time, she was one
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Speaker 1: years old. Their found dad murdered in a wooded area Houston,
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Speaker 1: Texas at the time, their identities unknown to Jeffrey Jensen,
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Speaker 1: Professor Forensic Pathology at Michigan Medical School University of Michigan
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Speaker 1: Medical School. What do you make the modes of murder? Well,
5:49
Speaker 1: as we've discussed on multiple occasions on your show, multiple
5:55
Speaker 1: modes are types of injury inflicted on individuals can give
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Speaker 1: a clearly as to the mental intentions of the assailants,
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Speaker 1: even the victims in some cases. So in this case,
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Speaker 1: it looks like there's multiple and varying modalities of death
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Speaker 1: on both the victims, including the evidence of bondage and
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Speaker 1: possibly torture. So I would agree with this kind of
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Speaker 1: of injury pattern. I would suspect that there would be
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Speaker 1: multiple individuals involved, and not only that. Dave Matt with
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Speaker 1: me Crime online dot Com invest to get a reporter
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Speaker 1: the people that murdered this young couple, these parents, his
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Speaker 1: mother and father, actually bring the car back to Florida
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Speaker 1: and try to extort money from Donna. Is that true?
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Speaker 1: Explain that for me? Okay, Nancy, that's partially true. We
6:54
Speaker 1: don't know who murdered Dean and Tina. That is still
6:58
Speaker 1: an unsolved murder. What we do have is an odd
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Speaker 1: group of religious people out of what appears to be
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Speaker 1: Christ's family, a group that was led by a man,
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Speaker 1: Charles McHugh. This is a group of people who a
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Speaker 1: woman named Sister Susan called the family of Dean Klaus
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Speaker 1: from California and offered up to give them back their
7:23
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight AMC concord vehicle in exchange for a
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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Oh well, white, white, the concord belonged to
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Speaker 1: Harold Klaus and Tina. Actually, yes, it was their vehicle,
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Speaker 1: but it was actually in the name of his mother,
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Speaker 1: I believe. Okay, take a listen to what we know.
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Speaker 1: This is the Texas First Assistant Attorney General, Brent A. Webster,
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Speaker 1: Do you return car belonged to Dean's mother and was
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Speaker 1: in fact the car that they had in their possession.
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Speaker 1: And this is the description of the vehicle. It's in
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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, two door red burgundy AMC concord. Tina
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Speaker 1: len Klaus and Harold Dean Klaus were likely murdered between
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Speaker 1: December nineteen eighty or early January nineteen eighty one. Their
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Speaker 1: bodies were found off of Wallaceville Road in Harris County, Texas,
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Speaker 1: and this was between January sixth and January eleventh of
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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one. They were last heard from by their
8:23
Speaker 1: families in late October nineteen eighty and they had been
8:27
Speaker 1: living in Louisville, Texas in October of nineteen eighty around
8:33
Speaker 1: that time. So you've got Harold Junior and Tina Klaus
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Speaker 1: murdered and left in the woods. One's bludge and dead,
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Speaker 1: the woman, Tina is strangled dead. Then you've got this
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Speaker 1: so called religious group turning up trying to make money
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Speaker 1: off the dead couple's car, basically holding the car for ransom, saying,
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Speaker 1: if you give me a thousand dollars, I'll give you
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Speaker 1: a car back. Is that right? No, Actually, Nancy, they
9:02
Speaker 1: didn't know that Dean and Tina were dead. Their bodies
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Speaker 1: were not identified. The bodies were found in the woods.
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Speaker 1: I'm not saying they didn't know. I'm saying that these
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Speaker 1: two are murdered and left in the woods, and then
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Speaker 1: the so called religious group just happens to have the
9:21
Speaker 1: car of the dead couple, trace it back to the
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Speaker 1: owners in Florida and try to sell it back to
9:26
Speaker 1: the owners. Yes to a degree, because in reality, Dean's
9:30
Speaker 1: sister Brenda, said that Dean had become infatuated with a
9:33
Speaker 1: cult and that that's where he met Tina. Then this
9:38
Speaker 1: religious group shows up and they claim that that Dean
9:41
Speaker 1: and Tina have joined their group, that they're getting rid
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Speaker 1: of all of their possessions, and if Dean's family wants
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Speaker 1: the car back, they'll bring it to them for a
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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. How is that any different from what I
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Speaker 1: just said, because they first of all, they don't the
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Speaker 1: religious group that has the vehicle. Okay, they're not allowing
10:01
Speaker 1: Dean's family to talk to Dean and Tina. They're going
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Speaker 1: on a lie. The family now believes that Tina, that
10:07
Speaker 1: Tina and Dean have joined this religious cult and that
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Speaker 1: they can buy the car back. They don't know that
10:13
Speaker 1: Tina and Dean are dead. Yeah, and anyway, that's where
10:17
Speaker 1: it is. So maybe it was exactly what you said
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Speaker 1: and I just misunderstood. I actually think it's exactly what
10:21
Speaker 1: we're both saying. Okay, they say, we'll get your car
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Speaker 1: back to you for a thousand dollars because we don't
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Speaker 1: believe in possessions, but you can have the car for
10:29
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars. Yeah, okay. And the family says, we
10:33
Speaker 1: want to talk to Tina and Dean, and they said,
10:35
Speaker 1: well no, and so that's when dean family called the
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Speaker 1: cops when they met to get the car. That made
10:40
Speaker 1: perfect sense to me. Did it make perfect sense to you,
10:42
Speaker 1: James shell nutt perfect sense to me? Okay, Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 1: it does make sense to me. You know, versions of
10:51
Speaker 1: the truth are not mutually exclusive. Everything Dave mac just
10:55
Speaker 1: said is correct, and I believe what I said was
10:57
Speaker 1: correct too. Give me your spin. I also find it now.
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Speaker 1: I know cults very often will not let the debutes
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Speaker 1: talk to their families. So is that why they wouldn't
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Speaker 1: let them talk to the family or is it because
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Speaker 1: they knew they were dead? Well, I believe it's because
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Speaker 1: they were already dead, because Dean stops writing letters to
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Speaker 1: his mom in October of you know, nineteen eighty and
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Speaker 1: I think eighty one is when this sister Susan is
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Speaker 1: trying to sell the car back to his family. So
11:30
Speaker 1: it's ironic to me when they say that the men
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Speaker 1: and women are separated in this group because women drop
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Speaker 1: off the baby. Sister Susan's making the call, and then
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Speaker 1: this group of women go to meet the family to
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Speaker 1: give a carback. They are clearly protecting the men of
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Speaker 1: this group. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, we
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Speaker 1: say that we believe Dean and Tina joined the cult
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Speaker 1: in October of eighty one. There's this picture of them
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Speaker 1: in their own home, we think with baby Holly, which
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Speaker 1: is the point of all this. Baby Holly goes missing,
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Speaker 1: and they have on regular clothes in their own home
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Speaker 1: and they're not in a cult in January of nineteen
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Speaker 1: eighty one based on this photo, So they would have
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Speaker 1: had to be approached by the cult, join the cult,
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Speaker 1: live with the cult, give up their car, all of
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Speaker 1: that by October. Is that possible? Is that what happened?
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Speaker 1: What about it? Doctor Sherry Schwartz. I mean, I suppose
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Speaker 1: it's possible, but it doesn't sound like from the evidence
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Speaker 1: that's available, right the picture, that that's what did happen. Right,
12:55
Speaker 1: the family maybe believe that, I'm interested to know why
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Speaker 1: would they believe that these two joined up with the cult.
13:03
Speaker 1: But also one of the things that they think of
13:06
Speaker 1: is the Manson family victims. If it was in fact
13:10
Speaker 1: the cult involved in this murder, certainly weren't members of
13:14
Speaker 1: the Manson family right now, what were you telling me,
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Speaker 1: Dave Matt You said that Harold as you're calling him
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Speaker 1: Dan Dan Klaus Junior, had been involved in a cult
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Speaker 1: before he met Tina. That is according to his sister,
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Speaker 1: Debbie Brooks. She said that Harold had been involved in
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Speaker 1: a religious sect slash cult in the nineteen seventies. He
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Speaker 1: then became infatuated with Tina after returning from what Debbie
13:43
Speaker 1: called a misadventure with that group. Okay, is this the
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Speaker 1: cult that had and handed over baby Holly? Experts say
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Speaker 1: there's a nine out of ten chance that the nomadic
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Speaker 1: Christ's family, whose child molester leader convinced followers to give
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Speaker 1: up their children, had the little girl after her parents
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Speaker 1: were killed. Take a listen to our friends at KPRC two.
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Speaker 1: Authority say. Back in nineteen eighty one, the families of
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Speaker 1: Tina Lynn and Harold Deane received a phone call from
14:21
Speaker 1: someone in California who said she was sister Susan. She
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Speaker 1: wanted to return Tina and Dean's car in exchange for money.
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Speaker 1: She further stated that Tina and Dean had joined their
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Speaker 1: religious group and no longer wanted to have contact with
14:35
Speaker 1: their families. They were also giving up all of their
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Speaker 1: possessions and from their investigators said Sister Susan met with
14:44
Speaker 1: the family at the Daytona Racetrack in Florida. That's when
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Speaker 1: investigators said that they were took in two at least
14:52
Speaker 1: two to three women and a man in custody. But
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Speaker 1: right now they're still looking for a police report and
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Speaker 1: they are asking anyone of the had any information to
15:01
Speaker 1: contact the Texas Attorney General's office. So Sister Susan and
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Speaker 1: others from this so called Christ's Family cult show up
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Speaker 1: at the Daytona Racetrack to hand over the car. Did
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Speaker 1: anybody mention, Okay, here's the car, where's the baby? Dave Mack?
15:19
Speaker 1: Not that we know of. All we know is that
15:22
Speaker 1: whatever answers these people gave to the family was not
15:27
Speaker 1: sufficient enough for them, you know, to keep moving without
15:30
Speaker 1: looking into everything. They called the police, and that's the
15:33
Speaker 1: thing that was said in that report. A police report
15:36
Speaker 1: was made out at the time, in nineteen eighty one,
15:38
Speaker 1: but they can't find it now. Ah, and the women
15:41
Speaker 1: were not detained. Okay, I don't understand that at all.
15:45
Speaker 1: So the women and a man were taken into custody
15:48
Speaker 1: because they had the couple's car, but they were let go.
15:53
Speaker 1: I guess that was founded on the belief that Dane
15:56
Speaker 1: Harold Junior had actually joined the cult because he had
15:59
Speaker 1: been with the cult in the past. Is that right,
16:01
Speaker 1: Dave Mac? That's what it appears to be, Nancy. So
16:03
Speaker 1: what can you tell us, start to Sherry Schwartz about
16:06
Speaker 1: giving up all your possessions and cutting off contact with
16:09
Speaker 1: your family when you join a cult. Is that true?
16:12
Speaker 1: That does seem to be how it goes, because everything
16:15
Speaker 1: goes to the cult leader. And when people join up
16:19
Speaker 1: with the cult, they typically don't join up because they
16:23
Speaker 1: believe in the cause, They believe in the leader. They
16:26
Speaker 1: want to please the leader, so everything that they do
16:29
Speaker 1: is for whatever the leader said. And I understand that
16:32
Speaker 1: the families that join this cult were told to quote,
16:37
Speaker 1: get rid of the baby, hand the babies over to
16:40
Speaker 1: the cult. What do we know about that, Dave Mac? Well,
16:43
Speaker 1: we know that this is a claim from the women
16:47
Speaker 1: that actually had given the baby over to a church
16:50
Speaker 1: in Arizona, where they actually admitted, or claimed or bragged
16:54
Speaker 1: about dropping another baby off previously at a laundromatt. Now
16:58
Speaker 1: I understand the great really would stay count in public.
17:01
Speaker 1: They were white robes, went barefoot, aid a vegetarian diet,
17:04
Speaker 1: separated men and women, and shunned animal products. What can
17:08
Speaker 1: you tell me about the leader of the cult known
17:13
Speaker 1: as Lightning Amen, who was convicted two thousand and three
17:19
Speaker 1: of annoying or molesting a child? What do you know
17:22
Speaker 1: about him? Dave matt or Cheryl McCollum Garrol. You probably
17:25
Speaker 1: know more from a legal standpoint of it, Nancy. I
17:28
Speaker 1: was looking at it from a religious standpoint of what
17:30
Speaker 1: this man, Charles McHugh he actually made His name was
17:34
Speaker 1: Lightning Amen. That's who his followers were told to call him.
17:39
Speaker 1: He claimed to be God's representative, and like most cult leaders,
17:44
Speaker 1: he would twist and turn the words from the Bible
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Speaker 1: to proving that he was the God's representative on earth.
17:50
Speaker 1: They had to listen to and he directed every movement
17:53
Speaker 1: of the cult, what they wore, what they ate, and
17:56
Speaker 1: where they went. Well. He was also convicted for selling
18:00
Speaker 1: and distributing meth amphetamines and things like that. It is
18:04
Speaker 1: not uncommon for religious groups to be a cover for
18:08
Speaker 1: criminal activity, and a lot of times these leaders, whether
18:12
Speaker 1: they're sexually assaulting people or you know, growing and selling
18:18
Speaker 1: drugs or whatever it is they're doing, the religious component
18:22
Speaker 1: is a great cover because a lot of times they
18:25
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about taxes, they don't have to
18:26
Speaker 1: worry about different things, and they can get followers so easily,
18:30
Speaker 1: and then of course manipulate them, which looks like this
18:33
Speaker 1: is what he was doing. Can I tell a little
18:35
Speaker 1: bit more about I've learned about this cult. They grew
18:40
Speaker 1: and you used openly marijuana and called it quote God's tranquilizer.
18:46
Speaker 1: They encouraged the use of drugs, and the men would
18:51
Speaker 1: wear diapers on their heads like turbans. So they have
18:59
Speaker 1: the baby, they've got the car, But I'm supposed to
19:05
Speaker 1: believe somebody else killed dan An. Tina Klaus h to
19:11
Speaker 1: Jeffrey and Jensen, Professor forensic Pathology, Director of Autopsy Services,
19:16
Speaker 1: University of Michigan Medical School. What do you make of that?
19:20
Speaker 1: So they've got the baby, maybe Holly, they've got the
19:24
Speaker 1: deck the murdered couple's car. Yet I don't know. I'm
19:29
Speaker 1: supposed to believe they didn't kill the couple, right, And
19:32
Speaker 1: you know when we've when we have connections with the
19:35
Speaker 1: infants and um, either victim, other victims, adult victims, or
19:43
Speaker 1: adult perpetrators. UM, there's it's always a kind of a
19:47
Speaker 1: complex connection. You may have cases where the actual parents
19:53
Speaker 1: buries their child alive, or you may have incidences where
19:58
Speaker 1: the child is basically discarded, either alive or dead, in
20:03
Speaker 1: order to avoid uh you know, arrest. So a child
20:10
Speaker 1: with a perpetrator becomes a very confusing and complicated scenario.
20:16
Speaker 1: So I forgot to throw in the dope. You've got
20:20
Speaker 1: Lightning Amen not his real name, who claims to be
20:26
Speaker 1: christ convicted of a child abuse. His cult has the
20:34
Speaker 1: car of the dead people, his cult has the baby,
20:40
Speaker 1: and he encourages the production, sell, and use of drugs.
20:47
Speaker 1: And he's not the killer or connected to the killer.
20:50
Speaker 1: Dave Mack, you were the one that was so stridently
20:52
Speaker 1: defending the cult at the get go. What about that? Okay,
20:56
Speaker 1: just to be clear, I wasn't defending the cult, merely
20:58
Speaker 1: pointing out there you are. I'm not about to defend
21:01
Speaker 1: these wackos. These Thankfully this cult disbanded after Lightning McQueen
21:07
Speaker 1: Amen actually when he was busted on the Lightning McQueen
21:11
Speaker 1: is actually a character. Yeah, okay, it's a fake car
21:17
Speaker 1: that goes on races with mad Aka two Mader. So
21:23
Speaker 1: interesting to note that back in May of nineteen eighty
21:26
Speaker 1: the Washington Post did an expose on this group about
21:32
Speaker 1: Lightning Amen and talked about some of the things that
21:35
Speaker 1: they did. He actually was convicted in nineteen eighty seven
21:39
Speaker 1: on gun charges at that point, and he claimed that
21:43
Speaker 1: the group had disbanded two years previously. I think it's
21:45
Speaker 1: an obvious connection that the people with the car are
21:49
Speaker 1: the people that killed the couple. But the issue here
21:53
Speaker 1: again is that they were not identified. At this point.
21:56
Speaker 1: The family still believes that Harold, Dean and Tina are
22:01
Speaker 1: living a religious life with the cult. They aren't. They
22:04
Speaker 1: don't believe they're dead. They don't know this. Wow, okay,
22:07
Speaker 1: speaking of that, take a listen to Claire Metz at
22:12
Speaker 1: WSH two. You'd see someone in the store as that junior,
22:15
Speaker 1: you know, but it never was. Of course, they knew
22:19
Speaker 1: nothing of their loved ones. Then last year they learned
22:23
Speaker 1: the bodies of a couple found murdered near Houston back
22:26
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one, were Junior and his wife Tina.
22:30
Speaker 1: It's very heartbreaking, Moie, that they had been killed that
22:32
Speaker 1: long ago and we never knew it. You know, good
22:36
Speaker 1: bodies just dumped into woods. Genetic genealogy linked the murder
22:40
Speaker 1: victims to their families, but baby Holly wasn't with the remains.
22:43
Speaker 1: I'm trying to engauge James shell nutt you and I've
22:46
Speaker 1: dealt with a lot of crime victims. The emotions this
22:50
Speaker 1: family went through for all these years they think their
22:54
Speaker 1: own relatives and basically turned their backs on them, joined
22:58
Speaker 1: a cult, and we're ever heard from again ever, only
23:04
Speaker 1: to find out decades later they were murdered. In fact,
23:08
Speaker 1: Dean was bound before he was murdered, which tells me
23:13
Speaker 1: he tried to fight back. I mean, crime victims' families
23:19
Speaker 1: haven't bad enough much less to go all those years,
23:23
Speaker 1: probably angry that Dan and Tina had left the family
23:28
Speaker 1: and had no contact with them, only to find out
23:30
Speaker 1: they had been murdered. All this time. Oh, it's almost
23:33
Speaker 1: like they'd lost them twice, right. They lost them the
23:36
Speaker 1: first time when they lost connection with them, when they
23:40
Speaker 1: felt like they were abandoned, and then now they have
23:42
Speaker 1: these feelings of guilt that maybe they didn't look a
23:44
Speaker 1: little bit harder, didn't push a little bit harder of
23:46
Speaker 1: the years for police to open up a real missing
23:49
Speaker 1: person's investigation, and then now they wound up dead and
23:52
Speaker 1: they're suddenly probably planning an immemorial service they've addictimized several
23:57
Speaker 1: times every day. You know, I agree with Sheryl MC.
24:00
Speaker 1: I think I shared this with you. At one point
24:03
Speaker 1: after Keith's murderer, my fiance's murder, I would have nightmares
24:07
Speaker 1: that he really hadn't been murdered. He just went away
24:13
Speaker 1: and didn't want me to know. And in the dream
24:17
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to comprehend that right before our wedding,
24:21
Speaker 1: he would just leave, and it was a horrible dream.
24:26
Speaker 1: And then when you'd wake up, you'd realize that it
24:30
Speaker 1: was even worse than he really was murdered. But in
24:33
Speaker 1: that dream, in those moments, and I would have it repeatedly,
24:37
Speaker 1: the abandonment of just someone you love deeply turning their
24:41
Speaker 1: back on you. So all these years, Cheryl, that's what
24:45
Speaker 1: the family thought that Dean Junior and Tina had just
24:48
Speaker 1: of course said screw you and left with this cult
24:52
Speaker 1: because he had shown interest in the past, and I
24:56
Speaker 1: think shell Nut's onto something as far as just the
24:58
Speaker 1: overall guilt and horrible experience of not losing them once.
25:04
Speaker 1: But then there's the aspect of the baby. The baby
25:07
Speaker 1: was not with them, so they have no idea. Now,
25:11
Speaker 1: did animals drag the baby off? Did the people keep
25:14
Speaker 1: the baby as something horrible happening to the baby at
25:17
Speaker 1: another location? So now they have that to deal with.
25:20
Speaker 1: Two on top of knowing that these two young people.
25:24
Speaker 1: Oh dear Lord, you're right. Think about a doctor, Sherry Schwartzo,
25:29
Speaker 1: you're the forensic psychologist. All these years, the families of
25:34
Speaker 1: Dean Junior and Tina think, well, they chose to leave us,
25:37
Speaker 1: they didn't love us enough. They've chosen their own life,
25:41
Speaker 1: and they've left with baby Holly. Then they find out
25:45
Speaker 1: Tina and Dean have been murdered when a dog shows
25:49
Speaker 1: up with Dean's arm for Pete's sake, and they have
25:53
Speaker 1: no idea where baby Holly is. I mean, that's hell
25:56
Speaker 1: on earth, doctor, Yes it is. And imagine how they've
26:02
Speaker 1: lived with the trauma over the years. And now it's
26:05
Speaker 1: compounded because not only were they find out they're murdered,
26:10
Speaker 1: but brutally murdered such that there's body parts floating around
26:14
Speaker 1: right and where is the baby? And now even beating
26:19
Speaker 1: themselves up more? Why didn't we do more? When in
26:23
Speaker 1: reality there's really not much they could have done. I mean,
26:27
Speaker 1: they were told relatives of Dan and Tina that they
26:32
Speaker 1: joined the cult. They gave up all of their earthly possessions,
26:36
Speaker 1: including that car for one thousand dollar donation. The relatives
26:40
Speaker 1: could get it back and did not want to be contacted.
26:43
Speaker 1: But then years later, twenty twenty one, they are contacted
26:49
Speaker 1: that two bodies had been discovered in Houston and enter
26:54
Speaker 1: DNA technology. Take a listen to our friends inside a
27:00
Speaker 1: Forty two years ago, Tina and Dean Klaus and their
27:03
Speaker 1: infant daughter Holly vanished without a trace. The year was
27:08
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and that was the last time their families
27:11
Speaker 1: ever heard from them. Tina, Dean and baby Holly had
27:15
Speaker 1: simply disappeared. Where were they? Were they even alive? Nobody knew.
27:20
Speaker 1: Three months later, the bodies of a man and woman
27:22
Speaker 1: were discovered badly beaten and dumped in the woods outside Houston.
27:27
Speaker 1: The man was bound and gagged, but woman had been strangled.
27:31
Speaker 1: They were never identified until now using modern DNA technology.
27:37
Speaker 1: They did have some remains that have been kept aside.
27:41
Speaker 1: We took pieces of those and extracted DNA from them.
27:44
Speaker 1: What did you find? What we found was the people
27:47
Speaker 1: that they were related to. And so I picked up
27:49
Speaker 1: the phone and called someone that we knew was related
27:52
Speaker 1: to these victims and asked them if they had ever
27:55
Speaker 1: had missing family members and they immediately said yes. Time
28:14
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace joining me right now. DNA expert
28:23
Speaker 1: Colleen Fitzpatrick, President, founder of IdentiFinders International, author of forensic genealogy.
28:31
Speaker 1: You can find her at Identifyinders, not identifier but identififinders
28:36
Speaker 1: dot com. Colleen Fitzpatrick, please explain, and please speak in
28:41
Speaker 1: regular people talk so I can understand what you're saying.
28:45
Speaker 1: How did this happen? And noticeably the baby's body was
28:50
Speaker 1: never found, but we do find the bodies of two adults.
28:55
Speaker 1: How did it happen? Well, Nancy, what happened is we
28:58
Speaker 1: had just received a great from Audio Chock to do
29:01
Speaker 1: several cases using genetic genealogy, and one of our genealogists,
29:08
Speaker 1: mister Gillis, had spotted this couple which seemed to go together.
29:13
Speaker 1: They had already been DNA tested and they showed they
29:16
Speaker 1: were not related, so but they could be married. So
29:19
Speaker 1: we took those cases and it took several months to
29:22
Speaker 1: get the DNA analyzed and in shape. And then there
29:26
Speaker 1: you get the DNA when the body's been skeletonized. Oh well,
29:30
Speaker 1: you send the bone to an extraction lab and there's, um,
29:33
Speaker 1: you know, very very good ways of you know, extracting
29:38
Speaker 1: the DNA from the bone matrix because DNA is hiding
29:41
Speaker 1: in the bones, and of course there's a chemical analysis
29:45
Speaker 1: that can pull it out. How difficult is that, um, well,
29:48
Speaker 1: for remains that are in good shape. Yeah, it's not
29:52
Speaker 1: that difficult at all. It's done every day. Extraction is
29:55
Speaker 1: done by bones. I think we use the bones, but
29:58
Speaker 1: you can also extract of course from seamen, from blood,
30:02
Speaker 1: from tissue samples. In this case, we had a couple
30:06
Speaker 1: of bone specimens sent to our lab in very old remains.
30:10
Speaker 1: I mean we've worked on cases from the fifties. We
30:12
Speaker 1: have a case in the thirties and that requires ancient
30:15
Speaker 1: DNA analysis similar to what you use for bummies. Wow, okay,
30:19
Speaker 1: I've got to write that down. Ancient DNA analysis. Is
30:23
Speaker 1: that what you used to said? I sure did, and
30:25
Speaker 1: that's used for, for instance, Egyptian mummies. Yeah, that's used
30:29
Speaker 1: for you know, it's even been used for caveman. I
30:31
Speaker 1: could listen to you talk all day long. Okay, let
30:36
Speaker 1: me understand. When you extract DNA from say an arm,
30:40
Speaker 1: a skeletonized arm, do you scrape along the surface of
30:45
Speaker 1: the bone or do you have to go into the
30:47
Speaker 1: center of the bone and get bone marrow? Is that
30:50
Speaker 1: where you getting bone arrow from the center of the bone? Well,
30:52
Speaker 1: my understanding, By then the marrow is gone, it's just
30:55
Speaker 1: the matrix to the bone itself. The bone is cleaned,
30:58
Speaker 1: you know, so it's not there's no contamination from the environment,
31:02
Speaker 1: is clean with ultra violet light and other chemical protocols.
31:06
Speaker 1: And then the bone is drilled and then it's ground
31:09
Speaker 1: into a powder. And the powder has a lot of
31:12
Speaker 1: surface area, and that you know, allows the DNA to
31:15
Speaker 1: be pulled out of that chemically. Okay, Colleen Fitzpatrick, I
31:19
Speaker 1: believe I asked you to dummy down for me. Could
31:22
Speaker 1: you at least say that a little bit more slowly? Okay? Okay,
31:25
Speaker 1: start with the bone being cleaned. Did you say with
31:28
Speaker 1: ultra violet light? Yeah, because you don't want to have
31:31
Speaker 1: contamination around. You don't want the surfaces. You know, surface
31:35
Speaker 1: has been in the soil, it's been probably handled, and
31:39
Speaker 1: so the first thing you do is clean it so
31:41
Speaker 1: that when you get the DNA out of it, the
31:44
Speaker 1: DNA belongs to the person that owns the bone. It does,
31:48
Speaker 1: it's not the person handling it. You know, it's clean.
31:51
Speaker 1: And so you drill in the bone and you get
31:54
Speaker 1: DNA from it. But what does ultra violet light have
31:57
Speaker 1: to do with it? It kills germs, it kills that terror. Ah, yes, okay, right,
32:01
Speaker 1: then you drill in, you and then you grind that
32:06
Speaker 1: portion of the bone down to powder, and from that
32:09
Speaker 1: you extract the DNA. Yeah, you either drill it or
32:12
Speaker 1: you section the bone, and then you grind it into powder.
32:15
Speaker 1: And then there's a chemical process of you know, dissolving
32:20
Speaker 1: the bone and then the DNA's left behind. Okay. So
32:23
Speaker 1: that and then once you get the DNA, I assume
32:27
Speaker 1: that you enter it into the DNA data bank to
32:30
Speaker 1: see if it matches anyone missing or dead. Otherwise you
32:34
Speaker 1: have to pull paul holes as I say, like in
32:37
Speaker 1: Golden State Killer and do genetic genealogy way back to
32:41
Speaker 1: the Great Great great great grandpa, grandma, and come all
32:44
Speaker 1: the way down to present day Ancy who was living
32:48
Speaker 1: in the area, who traveled to the area, and start
32:51
Speaker 1: calling them. But in this case, how did you connect
32:54
Speaker 1: how was it connected to the relatives? Well, Nancy, we
32:57
Speaker 1: did the same thing that Paul did. You know, we
33:00
Speaker 1: did genetic genealogy. So you have the DNA and you know, typically,
33:04
Speaker 1: you know, the law enforcement will send a DNA to
33:07
Speaker 1: a lab, they will make a profile, they will upload
33:10
Speaker 1: it to codis and look for matches. Well, we do
33:13
Speaker 1: the same thing. We have the DNA, we send it
33:16
Speaker 1: to our lab, we generate a profile, and we upload
33:19
Speaker 1: it to the database using it looking for matches, except
33:23
Speaker 1: we use a different profile, different database, and different kind
33:28
Speaker 1: of matches, but it's the same process. In the end,
33:31
Speaker 1: we come up with a list of people that are related.
33:35
Speaker 1: We call them DNA cousins. They share DNA with our
33:38
Speaker 1: unknown and it's like a big Sudoku puzzle because you
33:42
Speaker 1: may have a first cousin, a second cousin, second cousin
33:45
Speaker 1: once removed, a great nephew, and you take those people
33:49
Speaker 1: and what we do is basically keep rearranging them in
33:52
Speaker 1: a way until there's the only one way. It makes sense,
33:56
Speaker 1: like a Sudoku puzzle, and the missing piece is the
33:59
Speaker 1: person you're trying identify as Anybody ever told you, Colleen
34:02
Speaker 1: Fitzpatrick that you're brilliant because I could listen to you
34:04
Speaker 1: all day long. Where were you when I was trying
34:07
Speaker 1: DNA cases? Because anybody that can compare this to sudoku
34:11
Speaker 1: and it makes sense and I can understand it. Look,
34:15
Speaker 1: I'm a JD. I'm not a brilliant scientist like you
34:19
Speaker 1: and so many other people on this panel, and I
34:21
Speaker 1: don't expect gerrs to be. But you just made that
34:24
Speaker 1: so understandable. So now we have the two dead bodies.
34:29
Speaker 1: Now we know they're Tina and Dean Junior. The relatives
34:33
Speaker 1: are contact and they're like, well what about baby Holly.
34:37
Speaker 1: Take a listen now to Texas First Assistant Age Brent Webster.
34:41
Speaker 1: In late December nineteen eighty or early January nineteen eighty one,
34:45
Speaker 1: the families of Tina Linklaus and Harold Dean Klaus received
34:49
Speaker 1: a phone call from someone identifying herself as sister Susan,
34:54
Speaker 1: who explained she was calling from Los Angeles, California, and
34:58
Speaker 1: wanted to return Tina and Dean's car to their family.
35:03
Speaker 1: She further stated that Tina and Dean had joined their
35:05
Speaker 1: religious group and no longer wanted to have contact with
35:08
Speaker 1: their families. They were also giving up all of their possessions.
35:13
Speaker 1: Sister Susan asked for money in exchange for returning the
35:17
Speaker 1: car to Florida, where the family lived. The family agreed,
35:21
Speaker 1: but contacted the local authorities about the situation. The family
35:24
Speaker 1: agreed to meet Sister Susan at the Daytona Racetrack in Florida.
35:29
Speaker 1: The family described eating two to three women and possibly
35:32
Speaker 1: went mail and once again these women were wearing robes
35:35
Speaker 1: and to appeared to be members of this religious group.
35:39
Speaker 1: So Dave Matt find I've got the car, but did
35:43
Speaker 1: the same Sister Sarah indicate where's baby Holly. No, she
35:49
Speaker 1: didn't tell the family in Florida anything other than that
35:53
Speaker 1: Dean and tinead no longer wanted any contact with them.
35:56
Speaker 1: But we know that baby Holly was upped off by
36:01
Speaker 1: women wearing the same type of robe barefooted. They dropped
36:06
Speaker 1: baby Holly off at a church in Arizona. Take a
36:08
Speaker 1: listen again to Assistant Attorney General Brent Webster, baby Holly
36:12
Speaker 1: was left at church in Arizona and was taken into
36:14
Speaker 1: their care. Two women who identified themselves as members of
36:18
Speaker 1: a nomadic religious group brought Holly to the church. They
36:21
Speaker 1: were wearing white robes and they were barefoot. They indicated
36:25
Speaker 1: the beliefs of their religion included the separation of male
36:28
Speaker 1: and female members, practicing vegetarian habits, and not using or
36:33
Speaker 1: wearing leather goods. The women indicated they had given up
36:37
Speaker 1: a baby before at a laundromat. It is believed that
36:41
Speaker 1: this particular group traveled around southwestern United States, including Arizona, California,
36:48
Speaker 1: and possibly Texas. There were sightings of this religious group
36:52
Speaker 1: around the Yuma, Arizona area in the early eighties. The
36:55
Speaker 1: women members would be seen around town at various points
36:58
Speaker 1: asking for food. Then, after four decades, a miraculous twist
37:05
Speaker 1: in the case. Listen to collaborative efforts of the Texas
37:08
Speaker 1: Attorney General's Office Cold Case and Missing Person's Unit, the
37:12
Speaker 1: Louisville Police Department, the Volusia County Sheriff's Office in Florida,
37:17
Speaker 1: the Arizona Attorney General's Office, the Harris County's Sheriff's Office,
37:21
Speaker 1: and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children I'm
37:24
Speaker 1: excited to announce that baby Holly has been located, alive
37:28
Speaker 1: and well, forty two years later. I also am happy
37:32
Speaker 1: to announce that the National Center for Missing and Exploited
37:35
Speaker 1: Children have offered and will be paying for Holly to
37:41
Speaker 1: be reunited in person with the Lynn and Klaus families.
37:48
Speaker 1: Holly has been notified of the identities of her biological
37:50
Speaker 1: parents and got to meet her extended biological for the
37:53
Speaker 1: family for the first time this Tuesday. They hope to
37:57
Speaker 1: meet in person soon in Nickmick, the National Center from
38:01
Speaker 1: Missing his player of Children, is going to facilitate that meeting.
38:03
Speaker 1: And now take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition.
38:06
Speaker 1: After all these years, the mystery of what happened to
38:09
Speaker 1: Tina and Dean was finally resolved. But what about Baby Holly?
38:13
Speaker 1: Could she still be alive? This week we finally know
38:16
Speaker 1: the astonishing truth. I'm excited to announce that baby Holly
38:20
Speaker 1: has been located, alive and well, and here she is
38:23
Speaker 1: now forty two years old and living in Oklahoma. She's
38:27
Speaker 1: a mom of five kids and can you believe it,
38:30
Speaker 1: she's also a grandmother. What happened to Baby Holly is
38:34
Speaker 1: still being pieced together it seems that the people who
38:37
Speaker 1: killed her parents spared her life and brought her to Arizona,
38:41
Speaker 1: where they abandoned her on the steps of a church.
38:43
Speaker 1: A loving family who belonged to the church took Holly
38:47
Speaker 1: in and raised her as their own, not knowing her
38:50
Speaker 1: parents had been slain. Straight out to Jeffrey Jensen, what
38:55
Speaker 1: about a doctor, Well, this is a fortunately the best
39:00
Speaker 1: outcome that could occur with a tragedy like this. And
39:05
Speaker 1: recently there's been the development of the National Unidentified and
39:10
Speaker 1: Missing Persons Format Investigative software system that allows medical examiners
39:19
Speaker 1: and corners the ability to do identifications on these missing persons.
39:26
Speaker 1: It also allows the family to input valuable identification data
39:33
Speaker 1: that will assist the medical examiners in making these identifications.
39:37
Speaker 1: It's amazing to you, shall Nut. I don't know how
39:41
Speaker 1: such a happy offshet could occur from a double homicide.
39:46
Speaker 1: This is a miracle for this baby to have actually
39:50
Speaker 1: survived all these years, never knowing who her parents were,
39:55
Speaker 1: never being connected with her biorelatives. Yet baby Holly survived.
40:01
Speaker 1: It is a miracle God had his hand on her.
40:03
Speaker 1: You know how many times have we talked about the
40:05
Speaker 1: longer something goes on. The worst outcome is when it
40:08
Speaker 1: comes to missing persons and missing children. But I'll also
40:11
Speaker 1: tell you something else. This case is not over. There
40:14
Speaker 1: is still a chance to solve these murders. They know
40:17
Speaker 1: who the leader of this cult was. These people were
40:20
Speaker 1: obviously well known and well document and these articles written
40:23
Speaker 1: on them, they can go back and identify these people.
40:26
Speaker 1: They need to start conducting interviews and they need to
40:29
Speaker 1: dedicate some manpower to this and get this murder solved.
40:33
Speaker 1: That would be the ultimate closure for the family, to
40:35
Speaker 1: get this child back, who's now a grown woman, but
40:38
Speaker 1: to also have justice for these two murdered family members. Yeah,
40:42
Speaker 1: I'm so happy we found Holly, but I'm not letting
40:45
Speaker 1: go of the murders. Take a listen to the sistant age.
40:49
Speaker 1: If you have any information regarding these murders, we ask
40:54
Speaker 1: that you come forward, even if it's a piece of
40:58
Speaker 1: information that may not be concrete evidence. We need to
41:01
Speaker 1: find pieces of the puzzle to solve this crime. The
41:04
Speaker 1: Texas AG's Office col's Case Unit and the law enforcement
41:08
Speaker 1: agencies that work with us are committed to bringing justice
41:13
Speaker 1: in this case. We wish Holly the best. We're grateful
41:17
Speaker 1: that we found her, but we must continue with our
41:19
Speaker 1: purpose of finding who murdered this couple. Colleen Fitzpatrick way in.
41:26
Speaker 1: You know, it isn't an open homicide investigation right now,
41:30
Speaker 1: and should there not be a code is hit, you know,
41:33
Speaker 1: to the DNA. We could certainly try and solve it
41:35
Speaker 1: using forensic genealogy, just the way we solve the you know,
41:39
Speaker 1: the identification of the clouds, you know, Dan and Tina Claus.
41:44
Speaker 1: You could do the same thing to solve the murders.
41:46
Speaker 1: So we'd be very open to helping with that. And
41:48
Speaker 1: now what we need DNA from the killer off the
41:52
Speaker 1: bodies in order to do that, well, yeah, we would
41:55
Speaker 1: need to look at the evidence and get the DNA
41:57
Speaker 1: from the close or the tape or the the bodies themselves.
42:01
Speaker 1: Of course, you have to use DNA from the crime
42:04
Speaker 1: scene to you know, to do ID DNA identification, So
42:09
Speaker 1: you know, I'd hope there'd be something like that or
42:11
Speaker 1: the evidence is being researched absolutely, and that tape is
42:16
Speaker 1: a very good conduit for DNA. If you have information
42:21
Speaker 1: about this double homicide or think you do, please call
42:25
Speaker 1: five one two four sixty three twenty one hundred repeat
42:30
Speaker 1: five one two four sixty three, twenty one hundred