Latest / Atmosphere with Emily Gracey / El Niño, Heat Waves & the Future of Coral Reefs

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El Niño, Heat Waves & the Future of Coral Reefs · Atmosphere with Emily Gracey

• Emily Gracey: Imagine floating above a coral reef. Sunlight dances through clear blue water. Schools of tropical fish dart through intricate coral formations. Sea turtles glide through an underwater world bursting with color and life. Coral reefs cover less than 1% of the ocean floor, yet they support roughly a quarter of all marine species. They protect coastlines from storms. feed millions of people, and are among the most diverse ecosystems on Earth. But these underwater cities are changing. When corals are bleached or when corals die, a domino effect of change occurs. For those who have watched these reefs over decades, the loss is more than scientific. It's deeply personal. I was almost crying because I remembered how I saw it when I was a child with my father, and now how my children see it, and I know that their children. Is gonna see less and less. Today on Atmosphere, we'll explore the current state of the world's coral reefs, why this year's El Nino has scientists especially concerned, and how rising ocean temperatures are reshaping these extraordinary ecosystems. We'll also hear about innovative efforts to restore damaged reefs and whether new biotechnology could help corals better withstand a changing world. I'm Meteorologist Emily Gracie, and this is Atmosphere, a podcast where science becomes conversation. Each week I sit down with the experts behind the forecasts, the research, and the headlines to explore not just the science, but the human stories behind it. Through natural curiosity, we're making science more understandable, more relatable, and hopefully bringing a little more comfort in how we experience the world around us. If you've ever snorkeled over a coral reef or seen one in a documentary, you know they're some of the most spectacular places on Earth, but they're much more than beautiful. Coral reefs protect coastlines from waves and storms, they support fisheries that feed millions of people, and provide habitat for an incredible diversity of marine life. Today those reefs are facing growing challenges. Rising ocean temperatures are causing widespread coral bleaching. And climate patterns like El Nino can add even more stress to an already fragile ecosystem. To help us understand what's happening beneath the surface, I'm joined first by Dr. Tracy Fenara. Tracy is an environmental engineer, an ocean scientist, and a science communicator who has spent years studying coastal environments and helping people understand how our changing climate affects the oceans around us. Together we'll talk about what coral bleaching really is, why El Nino matters, and what these changes mean for the future of reefs. Then we'll shift from the problem to a possible solution. I'll be joined by Shahar Damari, the co-founder of V Corals, a biotechnology company developing new ways to restore coral reefs. His team is working to grow corals more efficiently and explore whether restoration efforts can help reefs become more resilient in a warming world. We'll discuss the promise of coral restoration, the challenges that remain, and why he believes these ecosystems are still worth fighting for. From understanding why reefs are disappearing to exploring whether science can help bring them back, this is a conversation about one of the planet's most extraordinary ecosystems. And what's at stake if we lose it? Dr. Tracy Fanara, so good to see you again. An old friend that I love running into, like once or twice a year at conferences. So thrilled to have you on as one of my very first guests on Atmosphere. And you are kind of my go-to like ocean expert. And that's what we're talking about today. ⁓ but I want people to get to know you too, because you have kind of a fascinating background that, you know, you have a PhD, coastal engineering, you've done a lot of like TV as well. So you've really married like the science, government, nonprofit, and like this private sector. So tell me a little bit about you and like growing up and what made you want to get into the sciences. yeah, I growing up I was I was really into animals. I I love animals. ⁓ and I was into inventions and I like to I I was winning a bunch of invention conventions that that helped animals. ⁓ so that kind of motivates you when you're good at something, right? ⁓ but then in fourth grade, ⁓ a teacher told me about Love Canal, a toxis toxic hazardous waste site where companies were dumping toxins into canal waste. ⁓ and then it filled them up to the top, put ⁓ some sod on it, and sold it to a school district for a dollar. People started moving in. There were cancer clusters, birth effects, children being born with two sets of teeth. ⁓ and and my mom had, you know, we were from that area. And ⁓ my mom had cancer in her twenties, and when I That's why the teacher told me about that. ⁓ my mom ended up surviving cancer. But but I just realized how everything we put into the environment eventually comes back to affect our health. And and it's really important to understand ⁓ that cycle and and that cycle is driven by water. ⁓ so that's really what I focused on ⁓ was water, water quality, water quantity. and and yeah, I became an environmental engineer and which kind of rounded everything out. ⁓ my gosh, I had no idea your connection to Love Canal. Did you know that on Off the Radar we did a two part series on it? I did not know that, but it is it's the example that I use for all my talks because I talk about Nikola Tesla and how he, you know, shocked the world by winning the big to power buffalo ⁓ from Niagara Falls. And and that's why that canal was abandoned and the chemical companies moved in. It's yeah, a it's fascinating. The whole story is wild. And like it we heard so much about like Aaron Brockovich is but this was like the lesser known, I feel like environmental disaster. Lois Gibbs. It was Lois Gibbs. She was the the mother that all the moms, like they rocked it. I know. I know. And and the crazy thing is that that she was called crazy. She was called the hypocontract and she just kept on going and she perfectly positioned herself that when the blizzard of seventy-seven came and mobilized all that sludge. To the point where people couldn't ignore it, she was perfectly positioned to call the federal government in. And that's what started the EPA Superfund program. Wow. Okay, we need to go back and do a whole other episode on that eventually. But today we're talking about coral reefs. ⁓ so important to talk about this right now because we're officially in El Nino and this is having a huge impact. But as a meteorologist, I I don't have like a background at all when it comes to ocean. And so my knowledge of coral bleaching is very limited. So can you take me back and kind of describe what is happening to corals in the bleaching process, like how that happens? Yeah. So so first, just bringing it back to corals, corals are actually animals, I think. A lot of people don't realize that when they're in larva state, they can actually, you know, move around until they until they attach to something, they they ⁓ release calcium carbonate that attaches to a a structure. ⁓ and then they have ⁓ a symbiotic relationship with an algae, and that symbiotic relationship really ⁓ I mean it's symbiotic, they both benefit. So so coral itself can't make its own food. It relies on on the algae and the ecosystem that thrives near and within the coral reefs for for food. so when oceans get warmer, the algae gets stressed. And they start releasing a toxin when they're really stressed. And that's when the the coral actually releases that algae. And the algae is what gives coral a bright color. So when that algae is released, then all you're left with is this white coral. And it looks dead, but a bleached coral actually doesn't mean that it's dead. It's just bleach. And there is opportunity for that cor coral to bounce back if conditions change fast enough. So what kind of time period are we talking about? Like if they're impacted, how long are they bleached for? When do they come back? How long does it take them to bleach? ⁓ that's a really good question. It depends on ⁓ the temperatures, the stressors, and the species. ⁓ some of them it takes weeks, some months. ⁓ and the same thing for for the rebound. sometimes it takes years to to rebound. Ocean acidification plays a role in and stressing corals as well, because that eats away a calcium carbonate. ⁓ so so coral have a bunch of things coming at them. ⁓ in addition to algae blooms, turbidity from coastal activity, ⁓ which blacks out sunlight, ⁓ suffocating from from erosion. ⁓ there's just a lot of things that our our corals face right now. Can you tell me a little bit about the role that coral plays? Something that surprised me. was kind of the role that it plays ⁓ when it comes to like hurricanes and coastal erosion, which w kind of blew my mind. I didn't really realize the power that coral reefs had. Yeah, they stabilize our coastlines just like mangroves do as well. And they can they can ⁓ take a lot of the brunt from surge off of off of the storm. So they act just like mangroves in that sense or any kind of living shoreline where it it ⁓ limits or impedes upon ⁓ the surge or the ⁓ impact on the coast and it it creates ⁓ a more structured shoreline so you have less erosion. And are those benefits lost when they're bleached or do they have to be completely gone to lose that benefit? So when they're bleached, they're they're still alive. The structure is still held. So those benefits will still those physical benefits will still ⁓ will still be there. But as the coral starts to die and that calcium carbonate starts to wither, that's where you can lose that structural integrity as well. Okay, so El Nino and bleaching, what's the relationship there? Well, El Nino brings warmer temperatures to a lot of areas that have our our coral reefs. For example, ⁓ Florida, Florida Keys, very sensitive to temperature changes, but I mean, I say that because we have really hot temperatures. And and in fact, the last bleaching event in twenty three, it was not long ago, some places, very shallow waters got temperatures over a hundred degrees, which is not not typical. ⁓ and that was a major bleaching event in a lot of those corals didn't die. ⁓ thankfully with coral restoration efforts, we're seeing some bounce back, but Coral bleaching events used to happen like a every decade, but with less time to recover in between these these events, you know, it's be getting harder and harder for coral to make a comeback. And that's why we need so much ⁓ technology and so many restoration efforts to accelerate ⁓ the rebounding of these coral despite, you know, constant warming temperatures. So that's it's like a twofold thing, right? We have climate change, which is, you know, raising raising the floor, and then we have a a strong El Nino, which is raising the ceiling. So we're getting hit from two sides. So what about you were talking about restoration efforts and like, you know, that quick turnaround between times of bleaching. What is being done to restore what kind of work is currently being done? What's been done in the past? And I guess what's been unsuccessful and what is successful when it comes to restoration? You've probably heard of something called fragmentation. ⁓ I think that that was first I haven't heard of anything, Tracy. You're gonna have to explain it all to me. Scientist at Moat, and I I don't know the details of this story, but a scientist at Mount Marine Laboratory, ⁓ he's not there any anymore. But but when he was there, he realized that ⁓ the breaking of coral, coral will actually start growing more coral in those fragments of the coral. So it's a it was basically a way to accelerate ⁓ the regeneration of coral. Now a whole bunch of organizations and institutions are are using this as their baseline, but they're also ⁓ basically selecting the most resilient coral strands to reproduce in a laboratory and then ⁓ have them acclimate in the natural environment. So you've probably seen pictures or videos of of divers. Going to the bottom of the ocean to restore coral. And what they're doing is reattaching, well, most of the time, reattaching their newly ⁓ grown coral back into the area. Now, sometimes when a bleaching event is so bad, like it was in 23, to save the coral ⁓ that is left, scientists will actually take the coral, put them in laboratories around the US until that heat wave or has passed, and then they will bring them back. To re-acclimate them. And I think that that some scientists are thinking about doing that now with some coral reefs in order to protect them from an expected heat wave, from an expected coral bleaching event, which is great because they're saving them. But at the same time, when you remove those coral, that gives an opportunity for algae to start macroalgae to start basically taking up the space that the corals once did. And that changes the ecosystem balance, but so does coral bleaching and coral death. So you're gonna have an ecosystem balance for some period of time, regardless. The question is, when do you remove the coral? And I mean, that's really the question. When what is that threshold of when you remove the coral? Hmm, it's kind of almost an ethical question. It's like, you know, of like in the medical world, like medicating, medicating, medicating. instead of thinking like, what's the root cause here and what can we do about the root cause? So are there efforts to be made like there? I know that that's an ongoing like bigger issue of climate change and and root cause there, but is that being factored into this? Yeah, I mean that's why that's why the the more Brazilian strands are being reproduced and and acclimated into the natural environment to those strands that are more ⁓ resistant. to those changing temperatures and to ocean acidification, those that have more chance of survival. Okay. Well, you know, I did an episode recently about ⁓ the state of climate over the past 250 years as the country is celebrating the 250th anniversary. ⁓ and a big part of that conversation was like the next 50 years and what that looks like. So I'm curious if you can tell me what you think the next 50 years of coral reefs looks like. Like as we're celebrating the 300th birthday of America, what will coastal Florida look like? What will co coral reefs look like, not just like in our nation but around the world? Well, that's a really good question. I think that that some areas will be more conducive. to the growth of coral reefs. It's it's getting them there in the first place. ⁓ and other places, ⁓ it's gonna be tougher for coral reefs to grow. And I think that scientists' efforts to restore and sustain, maintain ⁓ coral reefs is going to be ⁓ the driving factor of what it looks like in 50 years. You know, how much effort we put into this this technology, how much we actually care about coral. Why should we care about coral? ⁓ there's so many reasons to care about coral. They are the base of the ecosystem. You know, you can say that a lot of things are the base of the ecosystem. ⁓ but coral reef, they provide habitat, they provide ⁓ habitat for juvenile animals, they provide food for animals, they ⁓ they're for for economics, their tourism, they protect shorelines ⁓ from erosion and from surge. Okay, so so I have this theory of what happened in 2023. We had this heat wave come through, we had coral bleaching events, and then the next year we started we started getting reports of small tooth sawfish, which is a benthic shark, basically spinning and washing ashore. Now, this is really alarming. These are critically endangered species, and people don't usually see them that often unless you're in a ⁓ nursery or something like that where the water is really shallow. ⁓ And and there was a mass mortality event going on. And it was affecting other animals. ⁓ when they were taken into the tanks, they were able to bounce back, but it seemed to affect small two sawfish. Now they're benthic, they're on the ocean bottom. And the most likely hypothesis is that there was a surge of a species of algae, ⁓ dinoflagella called ⁓ Gambiodisceus. And This species does release a little toctin, but it's never really been a problem because the concentrations have been so low. ⁓ but after this bleaching event the year after, we started seeing like exponentially higher concentrations of this of this species, which is why it's a leading ⁓ hypothesis as to what caused the small two sawfish deaths, because this is a benthic algae species. microalgae species and is sawfish are benthic as well. ⁓ and in large quantities, releasing all that toxin, it can definitely infect the the the sawfish. When corals are bleached or when corals die, a domino effect of change occurs. And and I strongly hypothesize that that there was a change of ecosystem imbalance that resulted in creating Creating ⁓ an environment where Gambio Discus could finally could basically take over because those things that were either uptaking the nutrients and balancing things out, or those things that impeded on the growth of Gambriodiscus were either gone or limited or moved. ⁓ because without coral reefs, you don't have the fish. You don't have the species that fish eat, you don't have all of these things that are causing this balance. So when you have bleaching, dyeing coral, then all of a sudden it's it's fair game for anything that can grow quickly ⁓ with nutrients. ⁓ is there anything individuals can do to help with this issue? Do we have any power as individuals? Yeah, I mean, we always have power. I mean, i you know, like ⁓ making a difference in this world is a responsibility that you cannot avoid. Everything in the world is connected. Every single action you make has has a reaction. ⁓ so so first of all, coral, they're impacted not only by climate change, so ⁓ fossil fuel production, your energy use, all of that stuff, but also by toxins, ⁓ herbicides, you know, too much fertilizer, ⁓ sunscreens, things like that. ⁓ coral really big. tourism driver and we're wearing sunscreens that might harm the coral. ⁓ all of these things are things that you can do. and in addition to that, you can volunteer to to help restore the coral, ⁓ which is it's just a great thing to do in general. you can volunteer in a lab if you're not dive certified. There's there's a lot of things that you can do and just educate your friends, your family on the importance of coral reef and how they are at risk, especially right now with this you know, incoming a strong El Nino, ⁓ with global ocean temperatures increasing and heat waves on the rise. Around the world, researchers and entrepreneurs are searching for ways to help reefs recover. One of those efforts is coming from a biotechnology company called V Corals. I spoke with the co-founder Shahar Damari about his team's approach to coral restoration, the promise of a new technology, and the challenges of helping reefs survive in a changing climate. Shahar Damari, thanks so much for coming on Atmosphere today to talk about coral reef restoration and some innovative work that you're doing there at V Corals, but I want get a little background on you because you you don't have like a science background. You're doing a lot of science work, but you come at it from a little bit of a different angle, right? Yes. I worked as a software developer and a product manager for American Unicorn startups most of my career over a decade. Yeah, but I I am growing corals since I was 14. ⁓ I was lucky to be raised in a lot to the coast of the Red Sea, so I knew ⁓ those amazing animals ⁓ back then and I used to be a hobbyist growing ⁓ coals in my home aquarium. So this is how I met most of our like science people who are ⁓ Today they are professors, but back then there were students in a facility here in Ailat who does a lot of research ⁓ on ⁓ ocean ⁓ corals and restoration. We started to see the decline of reefs. We are lucky that in Eilat on the coast of the Red Sea, ⁓ you don't see big ⁓ bleaching events like you see in the Great Barrier Reef or in other places. This is due to the distinctive ⁓ geography and the depth of the bay here that helps to keep the water colder, but also we have ⁓ animals like corals that during a lot of years have adapted to the conditions here. and are considered like the most resilient corals ⁓ on earth. It is like not logical to allow ⁓ the harvest of wild corals from coral reefs ⁓ while they're degrading ⁓ year after year. So we wanted to have a solution first that can like we can cultivate corals like human beings have has been doing for a long time with vegetables and other animals, aquaculture. And and so we wanted to do that. So any corals that we trade a are one more coral that are not wild harvested from the wild reef. And other than that, we wanted to find a solution that can work better. than solutions that we have today. The the biggest issue is that like coals can live in a wide wide range of of conditions, but they cannot tolerate fast changing conditions. And this is exactly what's happening. So we work on a solution that is based on enhancement, create more resilient coals that can withstand c ⁓ climate changes. Interesting ⁓ can you give me an idea of how your technology works and how it works faster than others? Most of the restoration projects around the world are based on microfragmentation. Coral colonies are made of coral polyps. This is the animal itself, and you have ⁓ different ways to propagate it. One way is to do use micro fragmentation. You take a branch of a coral and then you cut it in a band saw into small pieces, typically one to three to three centimeters each, and then you regrow them. Each of the polyps in the coral colony are like identical, and then more and more polyps are growing, and you have a colony that you can replant or you can ⁓ trade if you do that. The issue is that because the ⁓ polyps are genetically identical, so you have the same animal, meaning that if, for example, ⁓ we see colonies decline in the in the wild ⁓ reef and we wanna save them when we and we take some of the colonies, we propagate them in microfragmentation and we replant them in the next season once We have another heat wave or another storm that lowers the salinity, they'll die again. And this is what happens year after year after year. The second way of doing the propagation is sexual. They breed like us human, ⁓ with eggs and sperm. And some of the ⁓ projects for restoration concentrate on that. They do like sexual reproduction and then they release coral larvae. into the ocean hoping it will settle and then a a coral colony will grow out of it. So what we do in V Corals, which is special, we do not do any ⁓ genetical editing, not CRISPR or any other. We just have a a very, very rare natural phenomenon that happens once in ten million ⁓ a sexual reproduction of corals and like the sexual reproduction in many of the species happens only one night in a year. So we need to like synchronize it and know when it happens and then ⁓ work accordingly. But what we do is we take this very rare phenomenon where several different ⁓ genotypes of corals meaning different DNA fused together into a one entity. This entity now has all the characters of all the ⁓ different participators in in this ⁓ fusion and then these corals has higher resilience both for disease for heat and it's already proven in in different places around the world ⁓ by scientists who ⁓ found the phenomenon but didn't know to to explain it exactly and today we know to check the DNA and at VCOAS we can create today ⁓ a coal that had seven different sets of DNA. This is the key to having more abilities to withstand ⁓ climate changes. So Our solution is based on call enhancement that create much resilient calls and use the same calls in the restoration site. And then you have calls that survive and your efforts in reef restoration are not gone year after year. Wow. Okay. So it's not just like putting a band-aid on a problem, it's like actually creating something that's more resilient. Yes, exactly. And and unfortunately in many of the reef restoration projects, they do microfragmentation and it works. Like the corals are growing. So the problem is that many times they take the easiest coral to grow. Of course they grow fast and then they take the place and food for other corals. And then they lower biodiversity. And biodiversity is the most important thing for the coral reef. All its power comes from its diverse animals that lives in it. So ⁓ we are working in the last five years on that solution and hopefully this year ⁓ core restoration practitioners all around the world would be able to start using it. Who are you working with? Is it like government agencies like NOAA? Who is interested in this technology and wants to take advantage of it? Like the markets we work with is reef restoration ⁓ projects. For example, Eco Coastal Restoration Project, the largest one in Europe in the last decade, it's called Ocean Citizen. ⁓ Vicoros is one of the partners there. ⁓ we do a lot of related ⁓ work both on the science but also for planting ⁓ back animals, education. ⁓ both for schools, universities, and also for decision makers. This project has been running for two years in Tenerife in the Canarian Islands. We also have a floating reef here in Elat, in a place where everything around is just a desert of sand, and we have like a huge reef that we ⁓ and others have built during the years. And we also work with national aquariums where ⁓ they need like consulting on how to treat animals, how to acclimate them and trading ⁓ sustainable ⁓ cultivated corals that are three third or fourth generation from ocean corals that has never ⁓ seen the ocean. ⁓ we also Do consulting to ⁓ companies in the Caribbean regarding how to build core propagation facilities. So this year we hope to start working in the ⁓ US as well. There's a lot of places like in Florida ⁓ that I'm sure ⁓ our technology will help to gain more success in restoring the reefs. Yeah, I think You know, I was gonna ask you like what's misunderstood about the reefs by like the general public, but I I think they just don't know kind of the importance of a coral reef and what it actually does for like our entire world. Can you touch upon that a little bit? Yeah, sure. So I think the most important thing that many of people aren't aware of is the fact that coral reefs Are like a natural barrier. They take almost 90% of wave height and strength. So Coral Reefs, they they are doing like coastal guard, ⁓ helping to keep degradation of the cost. In many places, this is an issue. First, for people who lose their homes, and other than that, for other activities, we even do like restaurants, ⁓ beaches for swimming and and and stuff like that. ⁓ so the these things they so they actually they save us from having degradation in our cost. This is one of the most important ⁓ capabilities cobal reefs have and the rocks themselves are built of corals the ⁓ The part of coral that is not exposed to the sun is dying, and then other marine creatures and animals get into the skeleton of the corals, and this is what building the reef itself. So this is one very important thing coral reefs do. And the second thing is they host ⁓ I think more than a quarter of every marine animal needs To ⁓ is using the reef at some stage of of his life. Either he eats there or he was born there. ⁓ So when we lose reefs, we lose fishes, we lose other marine animals, it's of course affect ⁓ our capability to be fed by the ocean, it of course creates other ⁓ phenomena. Like when you lose a lot of corals, algae take their place and then suffocate all other sea creatures. So there's always like a ⁓ a delicate balance in the ocean that once you changed it, it almost impossible to get things back to where they were. Even here in in a lat where I live, like ⁓ I was snorkeling here for the first time when I was six years old. My twins are now ten years old. So when I took them when they were seven to snorkel, like when we got out, I was like almost crying because I remembered how I saw it when I was a child with my father and now how my children see it and I know that their children is gonna see less and less. This is the reason I think I I mean also my wife Julia is ⁓ who is also like dedicated to VCoras as as me. ⁓ this is why we left ⁓ super comfortable walk in the ⁓ Art Tech ⁓ arena in software and studied VCoras ⁓ to do a real change and hopefully ⁓ our grandchildren will be able to see like driving reefs like we saw. Do you have any stories of success where you've seen this work really make an impact somewhere? Yeah, I think the the ⁓ floating reef that we have here in a lot is an amazing example of how we can use even like we don't take real estate on land. We have floating reef we just and then we ⁓ it floats in a in a height of ten meters above ⁓ the bottom and it's an amazing way ⁓ to grow coral reefs in places that there are no corals ⁓ without getting like place from from the the ground without having the effect on the ground yet ⁓ bringing a lot of animals Creating a biological ⁓ filter, higher biodiversity, but also a place for divers to come and lowering the stress from the ⁓ result that we have here. I know you've mentioned kind of some restoration efforts that are don't maybe make sense long term. Have you seen any that have been like alarming or downright harmful? I think that in in some Yes. I I I must say that the the in in many times in in restoration there's a lot of like positive ⁓ thinking and wants, but in some cases ⁓ unexperienced people do damage because like some of the cores they grow very, very slow. Some of them a few millimeters a year. So some of the cores are not like good for microfragmentation from the beginning because of their morphologic and because of of the growth rate they have. And I saw many times a divers take huge colonies who took them hundreds of years to grow and then cut them into fragments that doesn't have a chance to survive. So sometimes this happens. But I think that at the end most of the time ⁓ these activities they change awareness among people and this is what's doing the change ⁓ that people aware of the situation, aware of the importance of color lifts and why we have to walk to lose less of them. Yeah, is there ever like a moral dilemma there of like how much we mess with what's going on? Yeah, I think that ⁓ I think that this is this is something that changed. Like twenty years ago, most of the scientists around the world would have told you do not touch it, don't do nothing, let the nature ⁓ do what it does. This is ⁓ most of the cases and like an ecological point of view, because they say okay, within one hundred thousand years thing will change. I don't think that way because when you see it in your own eyes, you say, okay, it's only 35 years since I was six years old. So if this decline in 35 years, so what's gonna happen next? This is not 100,000 years. And we understand that in places that we put efforts, we do the change. ⁓ so I think We need to be experienced and we need to check our methodologies very well before we implement them in the ocean. This is why, for example, VCOS is doing research and development in the last five years. We could have released the device that we were building two years ago, but we wanted to like see it with different types of calls in different conditions and to be sure that it works. I don't think there should be intervention ⁓ intervention where there are no scientists and data to back the actions ⁓ are and that are made in this restoration project. Makes sense. Shohar, is there anything else you want to share about the work that you're doing? I think that there are not enough startups like coming from the ATEC ⁓ arena and like doing technologies for companies like Amazon, Google and others, I think that that ⁓ that there are not enough aqua startup and I hope that more and more entrepreneurs will start like building more companies that can both be ⁓ profitable but also help our planet. Thank you to today's guests, Dr. Tracy Fanara and Shahar Damari. If you want to learn more about the work that VCorals is doing, head over to their website linked in the show notes. And if you're listening to this episode, I already know you're interested in ocean science and need to give Tracy a follow. She's a great communicator on social media. Just search Inspector Planet. I'll link it below as well. She's also super involved in the community, so you can often catch her judging science fairs and running summer camps. If you have questions about today's show or weather in general, you can always find me on social media. On Facebook, I'm Meteorologist Emily Gracie. And on Instagram, just search Atmosphere Podcast. And guess what? I'm on Substack. If you want to take a deeper dive into the content I put on the podcast every week, please subscribe. It's free. If you enjoyed today's episode, please follow Atmosphere on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you never miss a new conversation. And if you have a moment, leaving a rating or review can really help support the show. I'd also love it if you shared Atmosphere with a friend. Atmosphere is a production of Mike Burst. It's produced, hosted, and edited by me, Emily Gracie. And if you're looking for even more weather content, but in a bite-sized package, Check out Weekly Weather Brief. It's a quick rundown of the week's biggest weather and science stories, hosted by me and fellow meteorologist Karen Jerriman. New episodes drop every Friday on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. I'm meteorologist Emily Gracie. Thanks for taking the time to slow down, stay curious, and explore the atmosphere.