Latest / The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness / The Fool’s Journey | Chelsea Daily on Intuition, Gaslighting, Tarot & Learning to Trust Yourself

Transcript

The Fool’s Journey | Chelsea Daily on Intuition, Gaslighting, Tarot & Learning to Trust Yourself · The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Observatory Podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: With your hosts, Scott and LaRae Wright.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Join us each week as we explore living life from
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the inside out. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast. Today,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Rae and I are going to sit down with a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: new friend, Chelsea Daly. Chelsea is the host of a
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: podcast called The Fool, and this is a super insightful podcast. conversation.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: She works in the corporate world in event planning, and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about her journey of finding that
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: space and where she follows her intuition, working with Taro,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: working with a lot of different modalities that have helped
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: her to find that. It's really a good conversation. So
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: we just invite you to sit back, relax, and enjoy
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: this conversation with Chelsea Daly. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Ray and I are sitting down in our home today
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: with Chelsea Daly.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Chelsea. Hi, thank you guys. Hi, Chelsea.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for coming our way and for joining us.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: We're excited to get to know you and introduce our
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: audience to you. We've had a lot of good friends
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: and our circles are somewhat linked or interlinked interlinked for sure.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: We have like 17 mutual friends on instagram i noticed
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: so we're running in the same same tribes.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: And so this feels very serendipitous.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah definitely i was saying how um it was
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: taking you know just because of our lives time to
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: get here but i just kept knowing i was like
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: well i just need to go so just be patient
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: just be patient and When it works out, it works out.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: And so here we are. I know. Perfect.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: It's always perfect.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Timing couldn't be better. Yes.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And we met you through Bobby Allender was the one
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: that made the introduction. We were introduced to him by
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: another mutual friend. And that's just kind of the way
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: things go.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: You know, he felt that there was a great conversation here.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And we could kind of feel it just in the
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: beginning of our explorations with you. Corporate backgrounds and all
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: sorts of things that you and Ray are going to share.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: And what we mean. He also shared a really fun
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: clip of you. Oh. And it was you were talking
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: about how your soul calls you. And that really resonated
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: with both of us. So we have felt that ourselves
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: in our lives. And I don't know that people always
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: understand sometimes the hard things that happen to them. Yeah.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: is really when you're getting a soul calling. When there's
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: a misalignment between what you're doing and what you could
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: be doing. You couldn't even.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Be more spot on right now because I'm currently feeling
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: that I'm in another transition. And I was thinking, I
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: was actually talking to my colleagues yesterday. One of my
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: colleagues has a new baby. And I said, you know,
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: it's interesting that whenever a baby's born, it comes out crying.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: And you think about our own lives and our own rebirths.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: And I think that sometimes we think that transition is
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: just this beautiful, luxurious thing. But it comes with so
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: much discomfort. And I think that if you can understand that,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: then you can move through it and know that you're
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: going to come out on the other side. But if
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: you don't know that, you can think you're being punished.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: When you're not, you're just being realigned, right?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I love that. I really love that. Yeah.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Redirected. I mean, it's like, you know, We get in
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: these patterns of our lives and we start to get
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: comfortable and life is going great, it seems. And then
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, one day, something's like, ow, there's
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: something missing.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. What's going on?
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: There's this voice in the back back there saying that.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: And I think that we are conditioned to believe that
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: there's so much permanence in life and that we have
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: to do what we've always been doing. And that if
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: we change careers or partners or whatever, it may be
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: that there's something wrong, right? But life can give you
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: stepping stones. And especially when you're on the journey, which is,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: you know, what my podcast is about, The Fool, then
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: you're on a journey of growth and putting yourself out there.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: And it can sometimes just feel like life is just
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: throwing you all of these stepping stones, but it doesn't
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: always need to be. permanence. It's not always forever. And
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: you can follow those. And sure, some periods will be
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: a lot longer than others, but we're so, at least
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: for me, I think a lot of my life, I
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: grew up thinking because I am someone who's constantly changing,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: that there's something wrong with me because I can't keep
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: the same friends. I can't keep the same partner. I
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: don't stay in the same homes. And there's a lot
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: to that. But what I realized is how much I've
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: grown and and how you continuously feel a way, and
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: then you're in circumstances that resonate with that, and then
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: you outgrow it, and then you have to go into
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: new circumstances that resonate with what you've grown into, and
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: that is the journey, right?
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Totally, totally. So you mentioned a podcast. Let's step back
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: for just a minute, and why don't you take just
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: a few minutes and introduce yourself to us and to
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: the audience, you know, What you're doing right now and
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: why this path opened up to you. The podcast, you
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: said the name of the podcast is The Fool.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: And so tell us how that came to be. And
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: let's just kind of find a little bit about you.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: And then I know that there's some corners we want
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: to explore.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, I love it.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: So Chelsea Daly, that is what I go by on
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: my Instagram. And that is what I go by for
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: my podcast, The Fool.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: And really it came from, I was talking to my
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: friend one day and growing up around a lot of
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: my friends, we would jokingly say like fool, like you're
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: a fool, you know? And I was talking to one
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: of my friends and I said, what do you want fool?
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: And then he was like, I don't know what I want.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: And I was like, huh? And I was thinking about
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: it and it was like, I, I, so I also
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: read tarot and, um, I, that is a big, huge
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: part of my journey as well. And so I think
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: a lot of the full card and a lot of
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: my life, I am a very intuitive person and I
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: kind of just do things. And a lot of people
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: will joke around like about my life and just how
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: things transpired and that it's maybe not a normal way
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: of doing and being because I will listen to the calling,
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: the intuition, and I'll just kind of go. And I
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: won't necessarily always have a plan or I kind of
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: will have like a rough plan, but Maybe I don't
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: necessarily know how it's going to go, but I feel
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: so deeply and strongly that I'm being guided and that's
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: what I'm supposed to do. And that's the journey of
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: the fool. And typically in tarot, the idea is the
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: fool is always taken care of, but they don't always
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: look to the outside world very put together. Sometimes they
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: can look kind of clumsy. It's the archetype also of
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: like the trickster, the shadow aspect of the fool is
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: the trickster. And so it can be a bit chaotic sometimes.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: And so what I've learned through my own practice of
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: shadow work is to embrace the chaos and to allow
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: myself to be the fool and to go out on
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: a journey. And yeah, it's good to have some structure,
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: but you don't always need to know. You just kind
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: of need to take a leap. And so that was
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: what inspired my podcast, The Fool. And it's essentially just
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: a growth and I would say life experienced spiritual podcast.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: I have some episodes with a co-host, have some episodes
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: with guests. I am going to do a solo episode.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: So again, it's kind of chaotic, kind of like.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: It's unpredictable.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: It's very unpredictable. I don't even know where it's going
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: and I'm the host of it. So who knows?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: You're speaking our language. We do that. We started now
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: four years ago with our podcast. And before that, I
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: felt it calling to me and I kept trying to
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: It was like the children's book, Are You My Mother?
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: I was like, are you my podcast partner? Are you
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: my podcast partner? And I kept wanting different people. And
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: then suddenly one day Scott came in from the garden
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: and he's like, I think I should be the podcast
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: partner with you. I love it. I was ready. It
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: was interesting. I had asked him and he had said,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: oh no, that doesn't resonate with me. And then it did.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: And so I think when you're talking about allowing it
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: to be more in flow and We never know where
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: the road's going to take us.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: And I have often said to Scott, like, we could
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: not have goal set our way here. I also came
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: through a big corporate background where goal setting was such
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: a structured practice that I would do. And every year
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: I would set new goals and I would be diligent
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: at sort of tracking them and then they'd start to
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: fall off and then I'd feel really bad that I
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: didn't accomplish them. And I've just let go of all
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: of that. Yeah. And I live a much freer life
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: and probably more productive.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: Well, I think that also, I don't think that people
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: understand that. I think understanding and having a vision for
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: where you want to go is very important. But if
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: you get too caught up in this idea of how
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: it's supposed to look, you're really holding yourself back.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: You're eliminating all the other options. And so you become
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: so myopic and then kind of self-defeating when those things
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: aren't working out.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: You insert what you've learned in your life and your
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: history about how things have shown up, and you're trying
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: to implement that into how things are going to show up.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the limiting aspect for me. I
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: told Ray this morning, I came in on a rant
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: from the garden today, and I'd just been down there
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: contemplating about one of these things was goal setting. And
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I said to her, I said, I don't know what's
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: wrong with me because from the beginning, I've never ever
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: been a goal setter. It doesn't resonate with me to
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: set a goal and then strive to accomplish that goal.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: And I said, there's something wrong with me because that's
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: not how people walk about on this planet today. That's
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: not what's taught. What's taught is You set goals and
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: you attain goals. And this has been the process forever.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know why that doesn't resonate with me, but
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't. That doesn't make me worse or better
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. It's just something that I don't feel.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: It just is. And as somebody who does both, I
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: set goals and, you know, I just, and I don't,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: I do both. I think that we get so caught
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: up in, like you said, these ways of how you
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: should and shouldn't be or society did it this way once.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: And so that must be the way that we need
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: to do it again.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: But it's not necessarily true. And I think that there's,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: if your soul is calling you, so I actually wanted
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: to start the full podcast about three-ish years ago. And
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: I went to Peru and I sat with Ayahuasca for
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: the first time. And I was like, I'm going to
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: come home from Peru. I'm going to start my podcast.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be a new woman. It didn't happen
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: like that. It was actually the most depressing period of
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: my entire life after I sat with Ayahuasca I went
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: into a really dark hole. I had no motivation. I
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: had no desire to do anything, to be around anyone,
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: to talk to anyone. And it was a period of solitude.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: And it was a very long period of solitude, one
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: that I had never experienced before. And once I was
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: able to move through that, like I said, it was
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: about two years long, then I was ready for the podcast.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: So you can't say, and I had goals for it.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: I said that You know, I was going to launch
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: it on this date and do this and do that.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: And it didn't work out and I felt terrible. But
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: when I actually did it just recently, I'd say maybe
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: we started a few months ago. it was more beautiful
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: than I think it ever would have been because where
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: I was in that space isn't who I am now.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: And I needed all of that experience. And I needed
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: to also just be alone and be in my grief
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: and be in my pain and move through the alchemical process.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: And now as the woman I am today, I'm able
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: to offer so much more insight to the world than
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I was at that time. And I didn't need to
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: be seen at that time. I needed to be held.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: And I needed to be held by myself and not
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: by the world.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Well, that's really beautiful. It's interesting because I think a
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: lot of people that do plant medicine have an expectation
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: that once it's done, that the magic is over. Like, oh,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I'm now this. When in fact, it's a very gradual process.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: The medicine slowly introduces you and it meets you where
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: you're at. And so that process is unfolding. And I
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: often equate it to, you know, like learning math. You
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: don't go from learning that there is a concept called
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: math to then the highest form of math. You have
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: to learn basic math and then algebra and then there's
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: this thing called geometry and then trigonometry. And so you
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: advance slowly and that's what life is. You have this
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: unfolding where you may not even be aware of the
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: aspects of yourself that are changing. that are softening, that
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: are gathering clarity. But all of a sudden you wake
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: up one day and you're like, wow, I am different.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: And it's not this big sort of evolution, like a
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: big step. It's these really tiny steps that take you
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: consistently forward closer to who you always have been and
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: into that kind of knowing that the medicine brings to you.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: I love that you say who you always have been
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: because a huge part of my journey, I've realized that
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: a lot of the parts of myself that I've hidden,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: that I ran away from were actually like the most
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: beautiful parts of myself as a young child that I
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: learned weren't okay, that I've brought back into my life now.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: And those are the things that make me magnetic and
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: authentic and loving and all of the things that I
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: feel are beautiful. But because I learned at a young
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: age to hide them, I hid from myself. And when
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I learned that it was okay to just be me,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: then I feel like it was a remembering. It was
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: a coming back to myself.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I recently finished a year-long training with Gabor Mate. And
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: he talks about that as a way of adaptation. And
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: it's another form of trauma. And that as young children,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: even pre-language, we learn to adapt and to modify based
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: on the environment that we're in, you know, um, survival,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: it's survival. And it's something that happens. We, we observe,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: we observe our caretakers, our parents, our siblings, the environment
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: that we're living in. And there are such subtle ways
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: for us that we adapt that we are telling ourselves.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: And so it, you know, the thing that I loved
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: about all of that was that I my perspective really
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: changed that it was no one's intention to make me
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: have those changes. Correct. I am the architect of that.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: It was my little self that started to say, oh,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: take notice, don't do that. Oh, this is what happens
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: when I do that. And whether it was an observation
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: that happened once and then I validated it for the
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: rest of my life, it is the story that I
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: began to curate. And so that's what we've all done.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: And that's why it is a returning to who you are,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: because that adaptation, taking you away from who you are,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: was something that the veil was drawn. We didn't know that.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I think that's something I think about a lot in
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: regard to this is just everyone is imperfect. And we
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: have people in this world that will kind of, they
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: have these beliefs that they're following and They'll tell us
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: this is the way it needs to be. And a
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: huge practice of my own was, you know, this concept
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: of kind of being gaslit. And it's not always intentional,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: but we're kind of constantly being gaslit by the world.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: And it's a practice to be able to listen to
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: your intuition and to be able to stand up and say, no,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: that's not right. I know what's right. I know what's true.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: This is also another aspect of the fool. I know
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: what's true. And I'm going to move in this direction
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: regardless of what you tell me. So you're telling me this.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: I can feel this. I'm going to trust myself and
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: I'm going to move forward. And as a kid, when
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: you have caretakers who, you know, you can't just say,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: I'm going to feel this. And it's a process of
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: growing up and learning how to trust yourself and then
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: ignoring all of the outside noise and just truly following
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: your inner knowing. And for me, that's an inner relationship
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: with source and God that's communicating with me and telling
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: me how to be and how to move. And that's
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: the only thing that matters. But we don't learn that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: We learn to listen to society because listening to society
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: is the easiest way for them to create structures and control,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: regardless if it's intentional or not. Listening to ourselves would
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: just create chaos, right? You can't tell people how to
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: live or how to operate if they're in tune with themselves.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: So I make people who are very controlling very angry
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: quite often.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Well, you used a term which, you know, Scott and
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I being baby boomers, I always love when there's these
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: beautiful generational moments where a younger generation such as yourself
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: see the world through a very different lens. And you
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: use the term gaslit. Now, that is a term we
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: didn't grow up with. Nope. And so let's talk about
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: that for a minute.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I'd love to.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Because I find that word fascinating, that it's part of
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: the language today that people openly talk about. It always
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: has existed. I think we just didn't call it something.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: We didn't name it.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I agree with that, but I also think that it's...
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: it's more prevalent today because people, they, they don't, uh,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: it gets put out there. You know, when some, when
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: it's happening to someone because social media is so prevalent.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: The tools are different. The environment is different.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: It's absolutely always been there, but now it's getting the
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: light shined on it.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: And I think that there's so much good and bad
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: to that. So for me, I.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Was, let's first talk what you, what you mean by it.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Because there may be listeners like us that, you know, Please, yeah.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: It took a while for me to get it.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: To fully understand.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Even now, I don't know that I could articulate what
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: it really actually means.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: I would love to. So it's actually based off of
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: a movie. I don't know what the movie is called,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: but it's a really old movie, actually. And the woman
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: in the movie was kind of going... She felt like
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: she was going crazy because she had met this man
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: who I believe that they maybe got in some sort
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: of relationship and he was wanting to inherit her money.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: So his goal.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Goal?
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Was to drive her crazy so that she would- And
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: doubt herself. And doubt herself. And so that she had
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: to go to an insane asylum so that he could
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: then inherit her funds or something along those lines. I've
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: actually never seen the movie. I just know- The concept.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: The concept of it. And so gaslighting really is when
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: somebody is kind of trying to hide something or they're
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: trying to convince you of something that is not true
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: and it makes you feel crazy. Because it would be
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: like if I walked into your house and you had
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: a gray couch and I said, that's such a lovely
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: brown couch. And you're like, no, no, it's gray. And
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I was like, no, it's brown. And then a few
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: more people walked in and they're like, it's brown because
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: it's You know, the reason why I say a few
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: more people is typically people who are gaslighting are pretty
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: good at wearing masks. So then other people around them
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: are like, well, no, they're great. They're charismatic. I think
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: it might be you. You might be the problem, right?
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: And then you feel like you're going crazy because this
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: person and everything is saying good on paper that this
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: is beautiful and fantastic and wonderful. But you know that
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: that's a gray couch. It's not a brown couch.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: And so they....
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: They create an environment where you start to doubt yourself. Yes.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: But it's intentional on their part.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Usually.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Because there is a difference between people who have different
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: perceptions that keep trying to sway you or convert you
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: or get you to see the world through their lens.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: And that is not gaslighting, right? Gaslighting is when something
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: intentionally is trying to be swayed, your perspective shifted.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: For their benefit.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: For their benefit.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: And to hide something, typically.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And to hide something. That's the part that I don't
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: think I always understand.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, a typical example is like two people in
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: a relationship where one of them, they know something's wrong
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: in the relationship. They don't know exactly what it is,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: but they can feel that something's wrong in the relationship.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: So they go to their partner. There really is something
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: wrong with the relationship that that partner is hiding, but
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: they're not revealing anything. And so they say, well, something's wrong.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: What is it? Oh, you're just being moody or you're
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: just being.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Or you're imagining something.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: You're imagining things and this and that. That's, I think,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: a typical way of me trying to understand what it means.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I was in a relationship for nine years
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: from the age of 21 to 29, which was pretty
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: much my entire 20s. And That's actually how I learned
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: about gaslighting as I went in. I was working with
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: a therapist and she said to me, and I was
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: just continuously saying, you know, things that were happening in
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: my relationship. And she said, do you know the term gaslighting?
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: And she was the one who told me about the movie.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: And that was an eye-opening experience for me because the
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: example that you just gave was happening within my relationship
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: where he was lying, cheating, doing all of these things.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: And Unless I caught him red-handed, you know, just right
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: in my face, it was like, no, you're insecure. You
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: have problems. You're this, you're that, you're this, you're that.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Now the fool, I trusted myself. I said, you know what?
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: After so long, I'm not doing this anymore. He's lying
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: to me. I know he's lying to me. I can't
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: catch him in all of these things, but something is
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: telling me that this isn't right and this is wrong.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: and that I need to move forward. And I did.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: And after about six months, it started coming out that
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: there was this woman, there was that woman, there was this,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: there was that, and all of these things, mostly around infidelity.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: And it was very heartbreaking. Also, though, what has led
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: me on this journey of being able to truly trust
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: myself and to really just take those leaps and even
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: if I don't have evidence, because I learned that I
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: don't need evidence to know what's true. And when I
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: follow that path, God typically reveals it to me.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: In a timeline that's not yours.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: In a timeline that's not mine. But being in that
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: experience is incredibly hard because you feel that you are
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: the problem and that you are making things up. When
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: in fact you're not, they're just really, really, really good
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: at lying and hiding.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's probably complicated if you have feelings for
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: this person and you have a desire for things to
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: work out. So we then do a lot of self-talk about, no, no, no,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I really want this to work. So you also then
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: perpetuate that gaslighting unknowingly.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: And what that did though for my growth is that it,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: because I thought, well, there must be something wrong with me.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: It really motivated me to start working on myself. So
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: I was going to therapy. I was reading all of
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: these books. I was doing all of these things. And
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: then that is truly what led me on this path.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: So even though it was a really difficult period in
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: my life and very heartbreaking, it's what's made me the
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: woman that I am today. If I wouldn't have faced
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: that adversity and done the work to to understand myself
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: and learn myself and learn humans in general, I wouldn't
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: have been able to, you know, get to where I
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: am today.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: It's such a fascinating world. We're very complicated as humans,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: aren't we? I want to ask, because now it just,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: you know, do you think gaslighting is something that can
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: be inherited? Can it be one of those traits, those
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: behavioral traits that if we grow up in that environment
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: that then we tend to also perpetuate.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: You're not talking genetically. You're talking like learn through family culture.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Right, through family culture. Yeah.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: I think there's two things that can happen. I think
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: that you can either adapt what the parent is doing
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: and then you start doing it yourself. Or I think
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: that if you have a parent like that, you typically
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: end up getting with someone like that. So then you
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: end up repeating it because you're used to people telling
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: you you're the problem, this is wrong, or so on
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: and so forth, or this isn't true. And there's this
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: crazy aspect to humans about how we are constantly trying to,
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: like I would say, heal the parts of ourselves that
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: experienced trauma as a kid. So if we had a
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: parent who was constantly saying this isn't true and we
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: were constantly doubting ourselves and that was never resolved, you
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: typically would then go get in a relationship to try
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: to resolve that pattern with a person that's very similar
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: to your parent until you learn and you step out
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: of the cycle.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: And you realize that you're not the problem and that
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: you have a different choice. And that's where the word sovereignty,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I think, has become really predominant in the language that
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: we learn that, wow, I can be sovereign in my
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: choice and I don't have to adapt to the way
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: that I've adapted or I've learned to adapt. It just
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: reminds me of other behaviors, you know, like narcissism or
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: passive aggressiveness or other behaviors that children grow up and
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: they may not know that that's what they are developing
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: until they're in a relationship with someone that has basically
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: grown up in a different environment. And then those two
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: environments clash. So it's fascinating.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we've defined... Now, gaslighting.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Does everyone feel complete? And I'm sorry that I,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: but the reason why I asked that.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that you did, because I think it's a
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: conversation that a lot of people don't feel a real
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: good grasp on. And I think this enlightens this up
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: a bit.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: I also find that a lot of women who go
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: through experiences that I've gone through find me And so
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: I think it's also important to share that with the
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: world because there could be women listening to this podcast
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: who are in situations where they feel crazy or they
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: feel like something's telling them that they need to move
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: in one direction, but everything else in the world is saying, no,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: you don't. And to be able to trust that and
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: to follow that.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's giving people language to start to go, oh,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: there's something out there called this. And I'm not one to...
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Tell people, oh, go find a name for something that
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: you can then say, oh, let me just take this
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: name and now let me call my experience this. But
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: it does give them kind of insight into something that
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: could be happening. Like you said, if the alignment inside,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: if the intuition feels off, because I really do believe
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that our internal compass is the most correct compass to follow.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: 100%. Agreed.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I had to learn that over time. And then when
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I was talking about goal setting earlier, it wasn't that
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't have some innate feeling within me that there
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: was something I wanted to do because I always have
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: had that. It's just that I didn't care what the
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: path was to get there.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: That's a beautiful way to be though, in my opinion.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I agree with that now. But I felt like I
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: didn't fit in my whole life. It's like you go
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: to some... some class or some workshop and you said, okay,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: now we're going to make some goals.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: What are your, what's your goal for what's your 10
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: year plan? What's your five year plan? What's your one
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: year plan? And all that stuff would, I would just,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I would just start feeling like, holy shit, I don't
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: even want to discuss this.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: I think I try. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Well, then I was going to say early on, there
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: can be some really harsh names associated with that.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Lazy.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Lazy is a big one, you know, lazy or not motivated. Procrastinator.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: And none of those words are, you know, are helpful,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: you know, but it may be, you know, when you
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: think about being more of like a creative person or
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: a free spirit where your interaction with the world is
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: very different, it doesn't mean that you're less productive or
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: that you don't still have a sense of accomplishment in
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: life and joy and all those other things. It just
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: shows up differently.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: I'm as productive as I want to be. I'm not
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: as productive as anyone else wants me to be.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: And that's all that matters.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. this is this is currently what i'm going through
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: in my corporate job right now so i'm just like
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: flabbergasted well and i'm like wow because again that let's
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: go back to like that feeling of crazy right you
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: feel crazy in these corporate environments where you know you're
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: you're trying to kind of explain some of these things
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: You know, I did a huge event just a couple
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: months ago, and I kept, I don't know, I just
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: felt like the registration numbers were going to work out.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: It was going to work out. And I kept saying that,
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: and it was like, it's not enough. It doesn't make sense.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: And it all worked out. And it's like, it's just
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: such an interesting, I don't know how to explain it,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: and I'm sorry that I can't articulate it to you,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: but what I feel is that I'm in this flow of,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: And the event is going to go great. And I'm
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: doing my thing. And I can't really explain that to you.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: And then it does. And it drives people mad. But
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: it's like, it just is who I am. And I'm
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: not trying to frustrate you or to be disobedient. I
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: just don't work in the way in which you're trying
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: to get me to work. And it's causing conflict. And
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: it's disheartening. But it's also, I'm realizing that I just
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: need to find people who work like I work. and
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: put myself in environments where I belong. And I think
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: that potentially maybe some of the corporate environments, it's more
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: difficult to find people who are like us in those spaces.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Well, it's fascinating because, you know, it, it's kind of, um,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: you know, I think the language is when we, when
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: we outsource a lot of things to someone else, right.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Whether that's through the work that we do, our careers,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: our faith, you know, our, um, Our home environments, you know,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: when we start to believe someone else has better answers
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: for us. And I saw that so prevalent after being
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: in a corporate career for 20 plus years and then
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: becoming an entrepreneur.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: And then even further working with entrepreneurs. And I was like, oh,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: these people couldn't work in corporations.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Because there's either too many rules. Yep. There's too much structure.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Bureaucracy.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: There's too much bureaucracy or games that are played. And
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: that doesn't make them right or wrong. One environment has
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: one set of rules and another environment has very different.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: And I think you have to know yourself well enough
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: to know which one you can participate in and have
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: the greatest joy. And sometimes that's by trial and error
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: because you You've either been raised in an environment that says, no,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: this is the path to go down, or you've been
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: raised with a lot of options that says any of
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: them are right. And I love when we come across
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: people that grew up that way, where it was really
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: any of these choices are right. Because at our age,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: it was a much more predictable path. Life was more
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: linear than what it is today.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Not anymore. Yeah.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Not anymore, but very much so. You know, it was
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: a much more linear path. It was.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: You had the white picket fence and all of the things,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: how things were going to be lined up. And this
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: is the path.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Right. What happens after graduation? You know, now you hear
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: gap years and people do all sorts of, there's many
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: ways that lead to the goal.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Or what someone is wanting to have in their life.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I want you to go, but before you do that,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: when you were talking, I was just like, this is
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: field of dreams.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: If you build it, they will come.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter who shows up, how many show up.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: None of that really matters. What matters is the alignment
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: to what I'm actually doing. Does it align with me?
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Does it align with what I want to create? Does
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: it feel connected within me? If it does, then I'm
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: going to do it. If no one shows up, I'm
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: doing it for me. Yeah. whether someone shows up or not,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: it'd be great to have other people sharing it and
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: other people be able to validate what you're doing sometimes.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: But again, that's coming back to the ego space. And
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: when you can just say, I don't give a shit.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Or the structure. And it could be the same thing,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: ego and structure. But there are some minds that just
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: work with more structure. They like control. They like structure.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: They like definition. They like predictability.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: It takes both. There's not a right way and a
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: wrong way of doing it. I don't function in a structure.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: It took me a while to learn that. I pounded
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: my head against the wall for quite some time trying
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: to set goals and trying to comply and trying to
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: do what I needed to do to fit in. But
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I'm a trickster now. I'm an open book for one thing.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I've been a gaslighter in my life. I've been that person.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: So I understand that side too, but I wasn't an
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: intentional gaslighter. So I wasn't doing it. I wasn't doing
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: what I was doing to hurt another person. I was
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: doing what I was doing to keep myself safe.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, so a lot of what I practice
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: and follow is Carl Jung. And the concept of what
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: you're saying is so important for people to understand because
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: it's really easy to deem people good or bad. But really,
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: we're all just kind of controlled by it. We're puppets
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: of our ego. And when you can acknowledge that and
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: see that a lot of times that people, the reason
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: why they're behaving the way they're behaving or doing the
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: things they're doing is because they're afraid. And a lot
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: of people are operating out of fear. And so if
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: you can kind of understand that as well as yourself
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: and really learn to integrate those parts of yourself that
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: you are afraid of, those are the pieces and the
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: parts that help you catapult forward. And then when other
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: people are acting in that way from a very ego-centered space,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: you can understand that they're just afraid. And for me,
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: I'll have to be honest, even though I do this
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: work and I practice this, I'm very imperfect because I
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: get really irritated very easily when I see people are
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: just being controlled and driven by their ego because I think, well,
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: you're just afraid. Just get out of, like, stop. Like,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: you're not being authentic enough. But so many people are
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: blind to this. They don't even understand. And so I
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: try to remind myself to have a little bit of
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: compassion because not everyone understands that they're just kind of
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: operating from that space.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Very well said.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's where we have found that compassion and
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: curiosity becomes hand-in-hand to create more healthy dialogue versus judgment
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: when people are there. There's been a... In just the
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: last few days, we've had a lot of conversations, Scott
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: and I, by some of the things we've been reading
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: and that, around this concept of capacity. And when someone
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: is operating where you may feel, because you've been doing work,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: you may be able to see it and you think,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: why aren't you just getting out of your way? Well,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: they're actually operating from a place where they don't yet
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: have the capacity to see that differently. And so it
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: is what is the journey, right? But it is also
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: when we each make that pivotal decision for ourselves that
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: we want to expand our capacity. And some of that
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: is really frightening because it requires you to look at
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: what perhaps you may hold in your hand and trust
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: and the ego is telling you this is safe and
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: then questioning that.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: And I think it requires you To die a thousand times.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Over and over.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: And over again. And I think that that's very frightening
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: for people because I've been through these deaths and they're
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: not fun. And I understand. I get it. It's scary
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: being in the void and not knowing what's next and
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: completely stripping yourself of everything that you've been taught is safe.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: But if you really want to expand and to grow
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: and to live a beautiful life, I feel like it's
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: the work that you have to do. or else you're
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: always living from a place of scarcity and fear and
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: not a place of authenticity.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And for those that are listening, you know, those
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: deaths can feel very, um, disheartening. They can be, they
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: can feel very lonely. And for me now, I, I,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: in fact, I showed Scott this post that I said,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: I just love this about pulling a thread. And, um,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: I love fibers. I love fabrics. I like to do needlepoint.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: And sometimes I think like, oh, that's just a thread
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: in my life that's misplaced. And pulling that thread out
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: and not having the fear that it will ruin what
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I'm working on. But then weaving back in a different
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: thread that actually enhances what I'm doing. And so if
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: we can look at those deaths as something that won't, um,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: that we will survive and that we can actually, what
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: will come in their place are these just beautiful, magnificent
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: moments of knowing yourself and going, wow, I did that.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: You know, that that can be something that gives us, um,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: not only permission, but courage to step into those choices. Yeah.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: I think, um, I'm part of a men's group right now,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: and we're talking about, during this, it's called the Men's Council,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: and during the calls, we're talking about the... hermetic principles.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: And I'd have known nothing about them, and we're approaching
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: each one. And we just started last night. Rhythm is
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: one of the hermetic principles. And I was like, I
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: didn't even know, how does this even fit in? But
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: it's what you're talking about with the thread and all that.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: It's what rhythm is. is it's a beat, and then
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: it's a space. And a beat and a space. It's
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: like a wave. It's back and forth. It's in nature
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: all around us. If we just look around us, we'll
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: see that that wave exists everywhere, that frequency, that vibration.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: The reason I can look outside my window right now,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: and I can look at the fall leaves, and I
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: see this color is yellow, and that color is red,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: and this is green, is that they're vibrating at a
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: different frequency. It's just a different rhythm. So we get
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: caught up, this thing we call life, we get caught
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: up in all the minutia of all the little things
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: that are happening to us that are difficult and they're hard.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: But the reality is it's all just a vibration and
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: a frequency and it's different levels. It's dense and it's light.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Joseph Campbell's quote, the cave you fear to enter holds
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: the treasure that you seek It is that death. It's
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: going in there and finding whatever that death is this time.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: And all death is, is it's just releasing. And when
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: you're able to release the things that are in the way,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: for me, it's my thinking always. It's what I've made
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: up in my head that's based on history and based
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: on patterns and based on all this stuff. If I
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: just sit in the presence of what is right now,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: what is this, and just sit with it, It usually
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: isn't as scary. It usually isn't as daunting. It usually
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: isn't as overpowering as it seems when my mind starts
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: to figure it out. It's just like, I got to
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: figure this out. I can't feel uncomfortable right now. I
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: got to feel, I got to get back to the baseline. Well,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: take a few breaths.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: And it starts to tell the stories too. I'm currently
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: kind of, like I said, going through another transition and
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking about okay, well, gosh, now I've got to
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: do this all over again. And I, and this and that,
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: and what does this say about me and, and, and
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: all of those different things. And when, and what I
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: love about, um, you know, I, I play samples and
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: I have a meditation, um, practice and, what I feel
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: that is so important about meditation is being able to
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: take a step back and being the observer and saying,
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: just noticing, like listening to what my thoughts are saying
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: and all these things. And when I can do that,
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: when I pull myself back and I listen and I'm
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: kind of watching it like in a movie or like
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: that emotions movie, the kids movie, I am able to say, wow,
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: look at all of this. Like, look, this is, none
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: of this is true. None of this is real. This
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: is just a bunch of clutter and a sense of
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: peace washes over me because it's okay. They're all just stories.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: And the stories are typically what makes the circumstances harder.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: And when you can kind of take a step back
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: and say, these are just stories and you get out
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: of your head and into your body and move forward,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: you'll typically have, I feel, more peaceful transitions if you
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: can kind of try to do that. That's why I
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: feel a meditation practice is really important.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Your intuition does not come from your head.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: It comes from your body.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: All of it together, you know, your mind is part
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: of it. But if you let the mind be the
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: one figuring out the intuition, where you're going to end
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: up is going to be a very different place than
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: if you just feel it.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: And I love that you brought up the emotions movies
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: because I feel... We really enjoy those movies. Inside Out,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: is that the one? Yes. And I love them because
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: young children are learning a language about their emotions that
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: create a lot of safety.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: In having big emotions and emotions that are confusing. And
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: so I love that we are moving towards a place
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: where that emotional language is welcomed and really explored more. Yeah. honestly,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: than it has been in the past. So tell us something.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: You mentioned that you went to Peru and did AYA.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about how that came about,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: where you heard that, because we certainly believe that AYA
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: has a way of calling you.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Yes. Well, actually, the story is really beautiful, and it
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: kind of includes this area, the valley that I was
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: just thinking about while I was sitting here. my mind
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: is always in a thousand places. I could be listening
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: to someone tell a story and I have five different
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: things going on, but I actually, so about, I would
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: say maybe 10 years ago was when I kind of
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: started getting into tarot. Actually in high school is when
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: I started getting into Buddha and meditation. I took a
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: meditation class at the community college and I found that
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: those teachings and ways really resonated with me, especially this
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: concept of, I read Zen and the art of happiness.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: And it was just this concept of like, everything is
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: happening for you. And it's just this Taoist way of
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: like being and living. And so I was kind of
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: in this world for a while, but it wasn't until
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: I left that relationship that the plant medicine world kind
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: of started finding me. And I started working with mushrooms
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: in a way that was very healing for me and
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: realizing that that was kind of my medicine and that
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: people were coming around me that were also interested. And
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: so mushrooms is really what kind of introduced me to
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: the plant medicine world. And I'm not very deep in it.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: I feel that, you know, at times if I need to,
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: I feel called, I'll do plant medicine, sit with it
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: and then integrate for a while. I'm not, um, like
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: I said, um, and I, and I'm not, you know,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: constantly doing it, but I was, um, so I had
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: heard about Aya a little bit and I always heard
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: people say like, when it calls you, then you'll know.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: And I was actually at Crystal Hot Springs with my
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: family and I was driving home and I had just
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: spent two days in the hot springs with my family.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: And as I'm driving home, there used to be these
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: hot springs in Ogden up the canyon that you could
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: go to. They're shut down now. And I thought to myself,
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: that place is really magical and beautiful. I'm passing by.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: I might as well just stop through. Again, the mind
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: was like, why would you stop by hot Springs? Silly,
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: you just left hot Springs. I also love hot Springs, but, and,
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: but I just didn't listen to my head. I just went,
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: I was like, I need to go. I'm just going
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: to go. So I parked my car and I go
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: and I end up running into a friend who is
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: at the hot Springs telling me that he's going to
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: journey to Peru and he's going to sit with Aya
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: and he's telling me about how he's going to do it.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: And he's done all this research. Now, me being the fool,
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not a huge research person, I'll be completely honest
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: with you. I would love for someone else to do
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: the research, and then if my intuition says yes, then
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go with you because I'm not going.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: To do it. I'm like that too.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: I'm the same way.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: So you do the research. So then I had said
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: to him, I said, you know what, I think I'm
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: supposed to go too. And I feel very connected to
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: the elements. And in that moment when I said that
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: the clouds parted and the sun hit me, and I'm
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: getting chills right now, And we both just looked at
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: each other. I said, did you see that? And he said, yes.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: And I said, I think I'm supposed to go with you.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: And then at that moment, we just, we got another
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: friend and we all went together. All three of us,
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: we just traveled. And to me, it was important to
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: go to Peru. I think there's pros and cons to traveling.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: I think that one of the pros was that I
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: did it in its homeland, right? One of the cons
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: was is that I came home and I didn't really
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: have community to integrate with and I was very alone. Now,
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: maybe that was part of my journey and that was
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: what it was supposed to be, which is what I feel.
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: But I understand now that, you know, you may not
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: necessarily need to go all the way to Peru. That
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: was my journey and what I wanted. But you could
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: also find like local community that's safe, right? Because you
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: have to be careful with these types of things. There's
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: safe spaces and not so safe spaces, just as there
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: is with everything in life, right?
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: And so that was the calling and I went and
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: it was a very beautiful experience. And a lot of people,
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: you know, it's not the most pleasant experience during ceremony.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: Were you in the jungle? No, we went to Sacred Valley.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: That's where we did it.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay. Yeah. And so, but it's interesting, the experience
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: itself wasn't very hard for me. I felt very held back.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: I felt so cared for. I felt like I had
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: known this medicine my whole life. It was coming back
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: into the world after being what I feel kind of
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: pushed back into my feminine. I was in such a
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: masculine energy prior to sitting with Aya and that I've
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: been able to kind of integrate back into my life now.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: But it's almost as if she kind of stripped that
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: from me. And I felt like I was reborn and
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: pushed into the world without anything. And that was really
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: hard for me because I felt very alone. I felt
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: very scared. I didn't feel like myself. I didn't really
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: know what was going on. And I feel like even
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: like a few months after the medicine, I was still
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: in the medicine. And that was also scary.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Right. Oh, very much so. Yeah. It takes a while
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: to integrate.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And so I... I think it took me probably
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: like six months to a year to just kind of integrate,
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: but then another like year to kind of rebuild. So
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: really now it's been, I think almost three years and
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: I finally feel Like I've kind of rebuilt from it.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: But I mean, that's just my experience personally.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really beautiful. And so then you come back,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: you're in corporate America.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I get laid off like two weeks later.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: What kind of work are you doing? So actually the
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: work that I do is very aligned with just like
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: my life in general. So I do, it's called field marketing.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: It's event marketing. So I do events, but primarily to
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: drive pipeline for corporations, revenue for corporations. And, but it's
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: funny because in my personal world, I do tons of
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: pop-up events, get community together and all of these different things.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: So it's very in alignment with what.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: That gathering activity that you're a gatherer by nature.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: I'm a gatherer and I love community and I love
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: bringing people together. I love promoting and talking about things
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: and it's just, yeah, it's all just like very intertwined.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's interesting.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: And so now you're at another juncture.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I had taken a bit of a sabbatical.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: So I get laid off. The thing that I love
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: about this experience, and it made me feel so much
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: more connected to Source and to God because I didn't
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: feel like I had anything. I felt stripped of everything.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: And I just got into this state where I was
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: continuously praying. And I was just kind of asking for help.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: You know, I was like, I don't know what to do.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know where to go. I just got laid off.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: So another, to add another thing later to this, I
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: had decided prior to even going to do AYA that
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: I was going to house swap with someone in Arizona.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: And so I come back, go to Arizona to live
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: in a stranger's home with my two cats by myself
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: while they're in Utah skiing. integrating from AYA, get laid
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: off from my job and don't know anyone out there
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: and completely isolated. I feel like it was all part
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: of the divine plan, but it was not easy. It
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: was very, very discombobulating. And so I just prayed a lot.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: I was in solitude and isolation and I just would
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: watch the sunrise every morning and watch the sunset. I
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: slept a lot and I just kept saying like, I
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: just need help. I just need help. And I think
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: as someone who was so hyper independent, especially from a
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: young age, I started working at 15. I had a
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: single mom. It was rare for me to just give up.
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: And I don't even say give up because now I
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: look at it, it was surrender. But at the time
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: I was just giving up. I was never given the
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: opportunity to give up or to surrender in my life
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: because I always had to have it together. I always
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: had to figure everything out. And for the first time ever,
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: I was able to surrender. But the beautiful thing about
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: it is that I was so held every month. I mean,
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: I have two homes in the Valley. I have a
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: very financial responsible life. And, um, you know, it was
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: like every month the money came and I don't even know.
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: It was like, I got a contracting gig where I
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: met some person and I did a little bit of
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: work for them and got $ 500 or just randomly the
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: money just kept coming. And then a contracting position came.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: And when that came to an end, I got another
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: corporate job. And it just, it just is so interesting
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: that even though I feel like I completely surrendered, I
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: was still held and carried. And the lesson in that
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: for me was, is that it's okay to let go.
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: And that it's actually not me controlling everything that's making
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: it happen. It's actually like this divine ordinance or something
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: that's like taking place. And I'm just a, like, um,
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: participant in it and that.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: You're listening yeah yeah and then you're.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Doing yeah yeah and so that I feel like was
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: one of the most beautiful experiences I was able to
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: take away as it taught me how to release control
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: and to just be and to trust because I was
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: never able to trust or to surrender that wasn't a
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: part of my growing up I always had to be
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: responsible and in control and figure it out and Now
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: it's beautiful because I'm still that person. I can still,
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: I have this adaptability and ability to be able to
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: figure things out and take lead and all of those things.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: But I also now have this beautiful ability to be
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: able to surrender and to let go and to just say,
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: it is what it is and what's going to happen
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: is going to happen. It's going to be okay. And
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: being able to have those two dynamics, I think is a,
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: is a blessing.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: That work together. Yeah. It's interesting that you are drawn
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: to tarot, too, because tarot does that.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: When people, you know, growing up, tarot was something that
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: was mystical and not really looked upon as something positive.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: And so when I felt the... In our conservative religious upbringing.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: In our conservative upbringing. Yes. When I was sort of
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: started to get the call that I should know more
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: about tarot, I realized how... how it really opens you
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: up to your intuition.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: And it's just a, um, it's like a conversation of
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: possibility when you pull cards and you see what that
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: means and, and you pull a clarifying card. It's, it's
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: like the, you know, the energetic or the vibrational world.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: It's a way that it can interact with you and
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: speak to you.
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: You know, what's interesting and something that I, my relationship
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: with tarot has really changed a lot as a result
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: of this, because When I was younger, I used to
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: pull tarot or go get readings because I was scared
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: and I was trying to control and I didn't know
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: what was going to go on and I needed to
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: know the future and I was freaking out. And that's
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: what drew me to this.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Thinking that it was predictive.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: Correct. And what I have learned and what's transpired in
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: my life is that it's a guide to patterns and
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: cycles and opportunities for healing and that I can now
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: pull cards and see a tower card and be like, huh.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: That's awesome. You know, but when I was younger, it's
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: very intuitive.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: If I get talk, I'd freak out. And I was like, no,
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: give me start, start, start. And just, it just, it
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: was so, it was actually my journey with tarot started
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: out kind of stressful of just like wanting control. And
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: now it's a way to connect with source and to
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: connect with myself, my intuition and know where am I
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: at right now? And, um, knowing whatever cards come that
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: like I can handle it and there's no good or
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: bad card. It just is.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: So let's go back just a little bit because where
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: do you come from? I mean, where did you grow
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: up and what was your background there? Sounds like you
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: were into Buddhism early.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: So where did this all come from? It doesn't sound
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: like it was Utah.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: Well, the interesting thing is it was. So I was
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: born and raised here in Utah and my mom comes
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: from an LDS background. She left the church when I
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: was conceived and And I was, I am the youngest
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: amongst half siblings on both sides. And so my parents met,
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: had me, and no one was really involved in the
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: church anymore. So I grew up with a little bit.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: So also my grandma helped raise me and she was,
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: she'd have, you know, some of like the home teachers
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: come and chat with her, but she was very I
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: would say, left and not involved much in the actual
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: activity of going to church. But she always talked to
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: me about God and Jesus Christ. And I feel like
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: it really resonated with me, that spiritual aspect of just
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: the things that she would talk about and the morals
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: and values that she taught me really resonated with me,
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: but nothing about the church resonated with me. And so
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: growing up in Utah was interesting because I wasn't... part
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: of the mass religion. And so I was very isolated,
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: but I found my people and I found my way
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: of being able to adapt. And I say that's a
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: beautiful thing about growing up in Utah is because I
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: feel like because I wasn't part of the norm, I
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: was really able to find myself in anything. And I
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: can do that now. You can put me in any
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: room and I can figure out, you know, how to
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: kind of move through the room because that's what I
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: had to do as a kid. But it's also a
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: beautiful thing because I love to connect with people. And
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: so it's given me opportunity to learn how to connect
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: with people past just what your common interests are. Right.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: And so that was kind of the journey, but the
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: reason why I got really into Buddhism. So I always
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: felt connected to God, to source, and that was really
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: important to me. And my mom actually, and her mom
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: struggled very bad with depression. My mom still does. And
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: there was this idea and this concept that when you're depressed,
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: there's a chemical imbalance and that's it. And so my mom,
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: despite her, it wasn't that she was trying to be
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: a downer, but she just was like, you have a
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: chemical imbalance, you're going to be depressed forever. And that
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: didn't resonate with me. It wasn't true. And I could
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: feel that it wasn't true, but I didn't know how to,
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: you know, I didn't know. I just was like, this
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: isn't true for me. And so the reason why I
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: was really drawn to Buddhist practices is because it was
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: this concept of like, you are what you think and
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: your mind has so much power over your experiences in
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: the life you live. And I knew that to be true.
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: Like I would try to tell my mom that she's like, no,
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: if it's a chemical imbalance, I'm like, And I'm like, again,
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: that unintentional gaslighting. I'm going crazy.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: And I'm like this.
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: Isn't true. And I find Buddhism and I'm like, this
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: is what I'm talking about. This is what I've known.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: It was a knowing, it was a remembering, almost as
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: if maybe I've experienced this in past lives. I don't know,
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: but it was just a knowing. And I said, this
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: is my practice. This is my life work. This is
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: what I'm going to teach people. Because we don't have
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: to be victims of our circumstances. We really have so
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: much autonomy and, and just like, how do I say just, um,
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: we are the creators of this and that magician card.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: And if more people knew this, you know, I don't
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: think that they would be stuck in certain circumstances. And
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: I've always been one to look and say, no, this
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: isn't true, and I need to find the truth.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: I love that. Now, were you going to ask a question?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: I was going to say something.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: Go ahead. Go ahead.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say that after a certain
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: point in time of going through the work and doing
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: plant medicine and different modalities and all of that stuff, finally,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: at a certain point in time, it wasn't like a
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: click overnight, but it was this process of understanding that
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: I am creating my own reality Period.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's it.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's nothing else going on except what I'm creating.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: My interaction with it is creating the story, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: It's all about me. It was comical when we would
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: say this to each other. Oh, there you are again.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Or she'd say, oh, there you are again.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: It's pretty funny.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's an interesting concept. And it's
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: one that I think a lot about how when I
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: read those words as a 17-year-old, I knew what it meant,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: but it's so interesting how all of these practices, as
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: time goes on, life gives you circumstances and you continue
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: to know what it means more and.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: More and more. Yeah. And it's just deeper and deeper.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: It isn't sort of, Once and done. It's like each
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: time you go around.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: It's a spiral, but it's up.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: It's like a deeper and deeper knowing that just makes
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: life richer and richer and richer.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: It really is. And we kind of sometimes feel like
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Groundhog Day.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. In a good way.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: In a good way, because it's like, oh, here I
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: am again. And nothing feels unsafe.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: Or that we can't handle it.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: We feel very prepared even for what's undefined. Yeah.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: I think that's where I am now. I think what
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: I mean by I would know, but I wouldn't know
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: is that I knew these things as a young girl,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: but I still felt so much fear. And I think
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: that it's important for people to understand on this journey
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: that the fear is going to come up. And I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: think as time goes on, because I have more trust
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: in the unknown and trust in myself, That the fear
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: is less and less, but in the beginning, the fear
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: was so strong. And it held me back from a
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: lot of growth, but I got here in due time.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: And so it's fine.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: Nothing is wrong. I got here in due time.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: The ego is going to give so much resistance in
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: the beginning that you finding ways to quiet that down,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: whatever that is for you, jump in some cold water.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: That was one for me that was a game changer.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: sound baths, plant medicine. There's different modalities that help us
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: recognize that there are ways to show your ego or
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: your mind or your thought process that there's someone else
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: in charge, and that's the observer. That's the person that
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: is watching, has been watching since the beginning, but is
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: in the back seat. The key is to put that,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: just to change that relationship so that the observer becomes
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: the one that's in charge and in the front seat,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: And the ego's back there. I'm not saying get rid
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: of your ego.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: No, you can't.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: You don't need a death of your ego. I don't
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: believe in any of that because it's a lot about
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: who you are and your personality. But recognizing and having
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: that shift, like you said, a lot of people don't
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: even know this is a thing, but that's where life's
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: trying to push you to.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: It's about, it's funny you say this because it's about
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: making friends with your ego. And I was just in
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: California with some friends this weekend and one of my
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: friends who's Not really on this path, but she's a
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: spiritual person, but kind of different paths. And she says,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: I tell my son that when we feel something really scary,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: we give it a name. And then it doesn't have
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: so much power over us. And I said to my friend,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: I said, that's the same with the shadow. That's the
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: same that when you have these parts of yourself or
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: these fears that come up, You give them a name
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: and you become friends with them and then they don't
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: have so much power over you. They're not so scary.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not so undefined.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that too. There's not so much unknown around it.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: And I think the unknown is frightening because it's the unknown.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: There's this random thing. It's unknown.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: And we just don't know if it's safe. And at
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, we all want to... Stay
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: safe in our journey. So it's fascinating. So Chelsea, tell us,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: what is it that you do today when people are
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: listening to this and they're like, hmm, I want to
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: know more about her. I want to, you know, figure
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: out how I can interact with her. Tell us a
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: little bit about what you do. You have the podcast.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have the podcast, The Fool. I also am
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: a coach and a card reader. I do it very
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: referral based. I just have clients who tell people and
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: they come and work with me and I do shadow
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: work coaching. I work with a lot of women. I
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: also facilitate sound bath meditations and play sound bowls. And
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: I host retreats. We're actually taking a group to Peru
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: in a week. I'm leaving in one week. And not
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: to sit with Aya. That's a bit more than something
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: I'm ready to facilitate. But we are sitting with some
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: lighter plant medicines and a Temizcal and things like that.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: And so just kind of taking people to the land
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: to have a really beautiful experience. And so I kind
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: of do it all. I have wellness events and retreats.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: And then I do coaching and card readings and sound baths.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: And it's the best way to reach out to you
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: via social media because we can put your social media
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: contact in the show notes and all of that.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: That's the best way. I don't have a website or anything.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: It's just all through referral and I just connect with
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: people on social media and then, and then go from there.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: So we'll put everything in the show notes, check there.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: That'll give people ways to get in touch with you.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: And it's been a fascinating conversation.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: This has been delightful. I'm just so happy that not
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: only do we have friends in common, But that Bobby
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: made the suggestion, and then just to hear the things
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: that you love. You know, there's many places that we
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: even touch our lives, and we just know that you're
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: of kindred spirit.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel that. Thank you, guys.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: This will be the last time our paths cross.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: Definitely.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining us.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, guys.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for coming all the way, and we
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: look forward to learning more.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: Definitely.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: All right, so until next time, bye. If you're enjoying
• 1:06:44
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to The Observatory Podcast.
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