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Ed Calderon (2025) - Mexico's Cartel-Government · The Joe Rogan Recap

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  Welcome to the Joe Rogan Recap, where we peel back the layers on
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  complex topics to give you a shortcut to being truly well
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  informed. Today we're diving deep into a
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  recent conversation that really covered a lot of ground.
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  We're talking ancient civilizations, modern Mexico,
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  the cartels, the US relationship.
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  It's complex. We've got some incredible source
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  material here, insights from someone who's really seen things
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  first hand. So our mission today is to
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  unpack Mexico's rich and often violent history, see how it
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  connects to today's conflicts, and look at that tangled
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  relationship with the US. Yeah, what's really striking
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  about this source material is how it draws this line, this
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  through line from thousands of years ago right up to today.
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  You see these patterns of conflict, conquest, even
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  psychology just echoing. It's quite a journey from like
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  ceremonial sound warfare to modern cartel battles.
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  It shows this kind of unsettling continuity.
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  OK, let's start that journey way back.
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  The discussion kicked off with something really atmospheric and
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  frankly, chilling. Aztec death whistles.
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  What were these things? What was their role?
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  Right. These whistles, they weren't
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  just noisemakers. They were often crafted to sound
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  like, well, terrifying things. Jaguars, screaming owls, even
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  human screams. For the Mexican people, that's
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  MEXICA, the groups who built Tenochtitlan, who we usually
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  call Aztecs. So that terms a bit tricky.
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  We'll get to that. Exactly.
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  For them, these whistles were sophisticated psychological
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  warfare. They use them in what they call
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  flower wars. Flower Wars sounds almost
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  gentle. Deceptively so.
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  These were often about capturing people for sacrifice, not just
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  land. Imagine hundreds, maybe
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  thousands of these things screeching all night.
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  The goal? Deprive the enemy of sleep, so
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  absolute terror break their morale before the fighting even
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  started. It shows how integrated
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  psychological tactics were way back then.
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  That's incredible. And you mentioned the term Aztec
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  being tricky. The sources apparently dig into
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  this and how the Spanish conquest wasn't the simple black
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  and white story we sometimes get taught.
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  Absolutely, Tech is more of a modern label for a collection of
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  different Mexican tribes and the Spanish, well they didn't just
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  show up and conquer alone. These conquistadors from they
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  were just coming off centuries of Moorish rule in Spain.
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  They were already a racially mixed group themselves.
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  They were smart politically speaking.
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  They allied with indigenous groups who hated the Mexico like
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  the Tlax. Kalin's hated them because of
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  the dominance, the tribute, the sacrifices.
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  There was a story about that. Wasn't there a pretty grim 1?
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  Yeah, a gruesome 1. The sources mentioned that
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  Slacks Kalin supposedly served captured Mexico tax collectors
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  in a Stew to their Spanish allies.
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  Just to show, you know, we're on your side.
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  We despise these guys and this whole complex situation, these
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  alliances. It led to the misty Zahe, this
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  deep mixing of cultures, of bloodlines that really defines
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  Mexico. But that mixing has its own
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  issues now. That's the tragic irony.
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  Sometimes the sources touch on this idea of a kind of cultural
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  self loathing where modern Mexicans might blame the Spanish
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  invaders while being the literal embodiment of that mix.
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  It's complicated. OK, and what about the Mayans?
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  The popular idea is they just vanished.
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  Our sources say otherwise. Oh yeah, that's a huge myth the
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  sources debunked pretty strongly.
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  The Mayan people didn't vanish at all.
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  Their descendants are right there in southern Mexico.
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  You can see people who look just like the figures in the ancient
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  art and their culture incredibly advanced.
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  Look at Chichen. It's at the engineering, the
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  astronomy centuries ahead of its time, long before Europeans
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  arrive, the. Stone structures are mind
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  boggling. Totally, and the sources get
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  into their ceremonies to use of psychedelic plants for visions,
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  that kind of thing, but also some pretty shocking stuff.
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  Like self harm. Yes, ritual bloodletting.
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  Priests pulling ropes studded with thorns through well,
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  sensitive body parts to induce visions and offer blood.
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  Really intense self mortification.
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  And here's a fascinating point from the sources.
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  This emphasis on suffering, on blood sacrifice for spiritual
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  reasons, actually had this weird, dark overlap with the
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  Catholic worldview the Spanish brought.
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  It might have been an unexpected, if disturbing, point
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  of connection. So bringing this ancient history
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  together, the psychological warfare, the complicated
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  conquest, the ritual violence, the massive scale of human
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  sacrifice, how does this help us understand Mexico's ongoing
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  struggles with violence today? It provides A crucial if deeply
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  unsettling foundation. The sources are clear.
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  Human sacrifice wasn't some fringe thing or an exaggeration.
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  It was widespread, documented in their own courtesies, seen in
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  the archaeology, those some that leave the skull racks, real
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  things. Spanish accounts even talk about
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  the specific dark smell around the pyramids after huge
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  sacrifices, 10s of thousands of people potentially for just one
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  temple dedication like. 50,000 to 80,000 The numbers are
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  staggering. Staggering.
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  And this deep, deep history of normalized brutality, of using
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  extreme violence for power, for ritual, for psychological
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  control, it arguably created a kind of cultural template.
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  It doesn't excuse modern violence, obviously, but it
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  helps explain why it might feel so tragically endemic, almost
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  like a recurring language of conflict that echoes even now in
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  cartel tactics. It makes the modern horror
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  slightly more well understandable in its historical
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  context. OK, let's shift gears then.
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  From those ancient echoes to the modern horrors, The sources
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  describe a truly disturbing normalization of extreme
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  violence in Mexico today. What kind of examples came up?
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  It's grim. The sources talk about how in
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  some places, hanging a body from a bridge is seen as almost a
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  kindness because the family can at least find the body for
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  burial. A kindness compared to
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  disappearing completely. Yes.
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  Beheadings, massacres, torture. They're described as part of the
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  landscape, things people witness.
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  Then just go back to work. There's a numbness.
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  And this isn't entirely new, right?
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  There were precursors. Definitely.
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  The sources mentioned the 90s figures like Adolfo Constanzo,
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  so-called Narco Satanist. He was doing these dark ritual
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  sacrifices, even kidnapped an American student.
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  Mark Kilroy apparently needed a brain for his cauldron.
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  That really shocked Americans back then, gave them a glimpse
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  into this darkness. Just terrific.
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  And how did these groups evolve from, say, Constanza's era or
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  earlier drug runners into the militarized forces we see now?
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  It's been a significant evolution.
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  They started forming more seriously in the 70s and 80s,
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  mostly moving heroin from poppies that were ironically
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  first cultivated more widely to deal with morphine shortages
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  during WWII in Vietnam. But the real game changer,
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  according to the sources? The Zetas.
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  These were the ex military guys. Exactly.
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  Former Mexican special forces, many trained at Fort Bragg in
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  the US. They defected and brought
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  military discipline, tactics and brutality to the cartel world.
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  Guerrilla warfare, sophisticated propaganda, Those horrifying
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  public execution videos, they basically rewrote the playbook.
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  And that led to groups like CJ and G.
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  Precisely the cartel Jalisco, Nuevo, Generacion, CJ and G.
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  They actually started as a group hunting the Zetas like a
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  paramilitary force fighting back.
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  But they learned. They absorbed all the textbook
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  learning processes as the sources put at the Zetas
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  tactics, the older cartels networks and became this
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  incredibly powerful hyperviolent organization that now controls
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  huge parts of Mexico. This level of organization and
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  violence, how deeply does it connect with the political
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  system? The sources paint a picture of
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  profound infiltration. It's incredibly deep.
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  It's like a feedback loop really.
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  The corruption enables the cartels and the cartels power
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  deepens the corruption. The sources point to the
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  previous administration's hugs not bullets policy under AMLO.
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  Good intentions? Maybe, but it arguably created a
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  power vacuum the cartels just rushed into, leading to one of
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  the most violent periods in Mexican history.
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  They're running candidates now. Openly influencing mayors,
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  Police chiefs? The statistic that jumped out
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  from the sources was what, up to 60 politicians assassinated just
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  in the 2024 election cycle? 60 That's unbelievable.
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  It shows direct, lethal political control.
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  The sources even draw parallel, maybe controversially, to things
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  like pharmaceutical lobbying in other countries, a powerful
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  force fundamentally shaping governance.
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  But here it's enforced with bullets.
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  So with that kind of power and infiltration, what do their
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  operations look like on the ground?
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  Recruitment money. Fentanyl.
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  They're using modern tools, recruiting openly on tech talk
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  apparently ads using coded language like 4 letters maybe
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  for CJ and G, flashing cash, promising a way out of poverty,
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  however brutal. TikTok recruit.
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  Yeah, there's this vivid story in the sources.
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  An Uber driver, desperate, calls the number from TikTok.
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  He gets picked up, subjected to a police test, basically
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  tortured by actual uniformed police who are working for the
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  cartel to see if he'll break or talk.
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  Then he gets trained by active duty Mexican military, Colombian
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  specialists, maybe even American contractors, the sources
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  suggest, in these hidden camps. And their money isn't just drugs
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  anymore. Far from it.
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  They're deep into fuel theft. Kwachi coal it's called
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  siphoning oil from pipelines, massive business and even
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  avocados controlling the green gold.
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  So my guacamole could be funding cartels.
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  It's a disturbing thought, but yes, the sources suggest that
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  connection is real. Your grocery money could
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  indirectly fuel this violence. And fentanyl that's primarily
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  for export. That's the chilling strategy
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  described. Precursors mostly from China.
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  They apparently test it locally, see the effects, but they
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  strictly control it. Anyone caught selling it within
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  Mexico might get killed by the cartels themselves.
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  It's treated almost purely as an export poison targeted at the US
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  market. And disposal of rivals systems.
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  Highly organized and horrific methods like dissolving bodies
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  in diesel drums puzzle they gruesomely call it.
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  We're using caustic soda to create this pink slurry.
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  It's why there are over 100,000 officially missing people and
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  the real number is likely much much higher.
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  It's just relentless darkness. But the sources did include a
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  very human story amidst this, didn't they?
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  The experts own struggles. Yes, and it was powerful.
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  A really candid account of dealing with PTSD, severe
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  alcohol addiction. After years witnessing this
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  horror up close. He described going cold Turkey,
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  the brutal withdrawal, the struggle and then finding
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  support. Actually getting sponsored in
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  sobriety by Randy Blythe, the singer from Lamb of God.
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  Wow, unlikely connection. Right.
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  But it speaks to that human resilience.
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  Even facing this level of trauma, people fight back, find
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  help, try to heal. It's a crucial counterpoint to
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  the despair. Definitely.
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  Now let's shift focus slightly to the US role in all this.
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  Sources brought up Operation Fast and Furious.
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  Remind us what that was and why it's so controversial.
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  Right, Fast and Furious. This was under the Obama
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  administration, though it followed a similar Bush era
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  program. The official idea was let's draw
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  purchasers, dye guns in the US knowingly, let them smuggle them
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  into Mexico, let them walk. Exactly.
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  Let the guns walk, supposedly so US agents could track them to
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  high level cartel figures. That was the plan, anyway.
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  At. The outcome?
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  A disaster. According to the sources, they
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  lost track of many guns. Weapons like Barrett .50 Kel
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  sniper rifles, FN 5 Sevens cop killer pistols turned up at
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  horrific crime scenes in Mexico, used to kill Mexican police,
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  soldiers, civilians, and tragically used in the killing
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  of US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.
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  So the guns meant to be tracked were used against US agents.
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  And the deepest implication, the suspicion raised in the sources,
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  is whether it was just incompetence or if the US
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  government was intentionally letting guns flow to one
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  specific cartel, maybe Sinaloa, to help them fight rivals like
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  the Zetas, effectively taking sides in the cartel war.
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  It shattered trust. That raises so many questions.
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  And sticking with controversial US connections, the sources
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  touched on theories about the CIA and drug dealing,
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  referencing figures like Michael Reppert.
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  Yeah, that definitely falls into the more provocative territory.
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  But it was mentioned the idea floated by people like Reppert,
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  a former LAPD officer turned investigator, was that the CIA
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  has historically been involved, maybe even facilitated drug
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  trafficking for its own covert ends.
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  He testified about seeing CIA selling drugs in LA.
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  He did very publicly on C-SPAN. The sources connect this to the
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  Post 911 landscape, suggesting maybe the US found it easier or
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  strategically necessary to deal with the cartels who really
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  control the border, rather than a potentially compromised
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  Mexican government. Pure speculation, but it taps
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  into deep distrust. Exactly these theories, whether
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  true or not, they highlight this undercurrent of suspicion about
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  hidden agendas and murky dealings beneath the official
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  surface of US Mexico relations. OK, let's bring this closer to
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  the present day, the border itself.
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  The sources described a really difficult, complex picture of
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  immigration policy and its human cost.
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  Very much so. It highlighted the stark
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  differences between administrations and the real
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  world consequences. Under the Biden administration's
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  initial policies, described by sources as effectively open
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  borders, there were horrifying accounts of increased human
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  trafficking. Children being drugged.
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  Yes, children drugged given colored arm bands by smugglers
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  for easier sorting and processing, essentially on the
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  US side by NGOs or authorities. It painted a picture of
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  exploitation being almost systematized.
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  While legal, immigration remains hard.
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  Almost impossible for the poor and unconnected.
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  Described as a bureaucratic nightmare.
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  And then you have the history of deportations under various
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  presidents. Obama, Bush, Clinton deported
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  millions. Trump, too, and Biden recently
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  ramped up. Right.
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  The numbers are huge across administrations, and the sources
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  described this overcorrection leading to tragic situations
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  like deporting people raised in the US who barely speak Spanish
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  back to dangerous places like Tijuana.
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  Caught between worlds treated like statistics.
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  It's a humanitarian mess. So putting all these pieces
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  together, the deep history, the cartel power, the US
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  involvement, the border dynamics, what's the bigger
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  geopolitical picture here? The sources seem to suggest
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  Mexico is a critical, maybe even dangerous, flashpoint.
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  Absolutely. A pressure cooker.
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  Yeah. And several major players are
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  involved, according to the sources.
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  China's a big one, not just sending fentanyl precursors and
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  chemists. But laundering money too?
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  Yes, allegedly facilitating massive cartel money laundering
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  through Chinese banks and businesses.
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  The implication? China might see destabilizing
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  the US via the opioid crisis and border chaos as strategically
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  beneficial. And other regional players.
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  Venezuela and Cuba are mentioned.
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  The current Mexican administration has ties there.
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  the US even has a $50 million bounty on Maduro, Venezuela's
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  president, for drug trafficking. And now you have Venezuelan
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  gangs operating in Mexico. It adds layers of complexity,
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  potential proxy conflicts. And all this while Mexico is
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  potentially the next China economically.
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  That's the crucial tension Mexico has the industry, the
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  workforce, the location. It's perfectly positioned for
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  near shoring, for becoming this huge manufacturing hub for North
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  America. the US needs a stable, functional Mexico for its own
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  economic security. But that very potential makes
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  Mexico a target for destabilization by rivals.
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  It's a paradox. And the US isn't just watching.
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  There are actions being taken. Definitely not just watching.
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  The sources describe ongoing calculated surgical operations,
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  like the arrest of El Maio Zambada, a top Sinaloa guy,
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  which apparently happened in Texas.
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  In Texas, not Mexico. That's what the sources claimed,
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  and it supposedly sparked open warfare back in Sinaloa, with
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  the cartels blaming the US, Mexico, even charging the
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  alleged abductor with treason. It shows how entangled things
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  are. Drones mapping targets, talk of
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  intervention. Yes, US drones are reportedly
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  mapping cartel targets inside Mexico, and there's serious
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  talk, apparently, about direct U.S. military action.
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  Here's the catch. The Mexican military's warning.
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  Exactly. They apparently warned the US.
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  If you come in, you might unite all these warring cartels
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  against a common enemy. You they'll become freedom
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  fighters in the eyes of some, and you'll have an even bigger
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  war on your hands. A massive potential blowback.
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  So wrapping this all up, what does this deep dive really kill
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  us? It feels like the fates of the
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  US and Mexico are just completely locked together.
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  Inextricably, that's the word that the sources really drive
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  home. History, culture, economics,
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  genetics, even. They're bound together.
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  The idea of open war or a completely sealed border, both
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  are presented as catastrophic scenarios.
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  It could trigger uncontrollable migration, economic collapse for
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  both, and possibly unite the very criminal groups the US
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  wants to fight. And the experts own story,
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  finding the American Dream just despite everything.
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  Yeah, it stands as this testament to the opportunity
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  that still exists, but also a stark warning that dream, the
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  stability of both countries, it feels like it's under attack
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  from, well, from all sides. Ancient violence patterns
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  meeting modern geopolitical games.
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  Which leaves us with a really challenging question for you,
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  our listener. Thinking about everything we've
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  unpacked the deep roots of violence, the systemic
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  corruption, the foreign interference, the complex US
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  role. How can the US and Mexico
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  possibly find a way forward, A path that actually tackles these
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  huge problems without just making things worse, without
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  triggering those catastrophic blowbacks we just talked about,
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  is a heavy thought, but vital for understanding where a shared
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  continent might be heading.