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Back To Basics: Creating and Using Sigils Part 2 · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What?
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: What's going to happen? Something wonderful. What?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: To me now.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the Occult Rejects. Today, we will be continuing
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: on with Part 2 of the Sigil series. In Part 1,
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: we had Magus in the media, Eric, and Sanre with myself.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: And tonight, we got Sanre coming back with us, and
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: we got Judith the Loon joining us. I figured tonight,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: we'd be able to get a little bit of Judith's
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: take on how she used.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Sigils in the past.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: And I think there's probably a little bit more stuff
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: that I maybe would want to go into on kind of...
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: maybe the psychological level on sigils that I didn't quite
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: get into on the first episode and maybe go down
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: some weird rabbit holes with Sunray on some other shit
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: because I know we can kind of look at things
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: in the same way sometimes on that level. But before
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: we get into it, let me introduce the other rejects.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: And we got Judith the Loon.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: What is up?
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: Always wonderful to see you, Nick and Sunray. It's a
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: wonderful deal. And You can find me on YouTube, Twitter,
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: and Spreaker.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for making it.
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  Speaker 3: And like I had said to you earlier, me and
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Judith had had an experience. We did a class together
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: on teaching sigils. It was over Zoom at that point
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: because I think COVID ended up coming. me and her
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: did do a sigil class together. So I assumed, you know,
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: she must be into sigils. And I, you know, I
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: do remember her mentioning them and we did some other
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: work with sigil stuff too at one point. So I assumed,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: you know, why not bring her on? So thank you
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: so much, Judith. I really do appreciate it. And we
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: got my man Sanre back. What is going on, Sanre?
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Please let everybody know what is up with you and
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: your book and everything.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's out. You can buy it now. Yeah, my
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: name is Sanre. I'm an author. I wrote the book
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Chaos Witchcraft, which you can now buy in stores, which
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: is still pretty unbelievable to me. Fucking cool. I hope
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: people like it. I host the Order of Chaos podcast
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: and the Order of Chaos at Cult University, which is
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: a teaching program. I give live lectures every Tuesday, and
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: we have about 100 or so educational videos on our platforms,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: guest speakers, and we're building it into a real school.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: It's very cool.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: Awesome good for you man and good luck with that
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: book i uh i have seen a few accounts posting
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: uh up your them holding your book and then talking
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: about your book so uh i was like oh that's
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: fucking awesome man that's what's up so and you know
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: obviously all all good things being said about it so
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: i really wish you the best of luck with that
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: and honestly from what i read i'll be honest i
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: think i got 50 something pages in And then I ended.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Up forgetting the last two days to touch it. I'm
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: just keeping it real, man. I did that book.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: In my opinion, I think anybody can honestly read that
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: regardless of what you're really getting into. Even if it's
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: not like into like specifically chaos, magic, sigil work or whatever,
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: this and that. I think the beginning of that book
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  Speaker 3: is honestly paramount as like the front of any magical book.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: Because it's going to list all these multiple ways. that
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: it can be looked at. You know, and a lot,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: it's just, to me, I was like, yo, this is awesome.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: You know, and I really mean that song, right? When
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: I was reading it, I was like, we need more
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: magic books like this. For real, with that, yeah, no,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: within the first 20 or 30 pages, you laid it down, man.
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  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
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  Speaker 3: Especially, I mean, you're bringing in string theory and all
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: this stuff, and I'm just like, yo, like, I wish
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  Speaker 3: more people were talking about this shit. Within, you know,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: magic and practice and theory and all that stuff. So
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: that's what's up, dude.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I agree. That's what's up.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I think we need to, you know, the idea for
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: me is like, I don't think magic is supernatural. I
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: think it's natural. It's just nature, aspect of nature we
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: haven't really mapped out yet. And so I want to
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: try and help map it out in whatever capacity that
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I can.
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  Speaker 2: Didn't even Agrippa call it natural magic in his books?
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  Speaker 1: I believe so.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's not too supernatural.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Or like we did a while back, you know, calling
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: it natural philosophy. Absolutely. No, no.
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: Actually you have a, I think you already have a,
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: a fan out in the chat.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we do.
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Sarah's already in here from, uh, from there. Exactly.
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  Speaker 3: What's going on. Cause, uh, So Judith, not to cut
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: you off, sorry, but I figured we'd just get into it. Judith,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: what was your, I guess, what brought you to working
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: with sigils?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: What caught your attention with that?
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: We were discussing this earlier. I actually pulled it out.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: It was this book right here. And I actually, I
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: like it so much because I rarely reread books. This
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: is one of the ones I reread. And after working
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: with them, they really work quickly if you're practicing magic.
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  Speaker 4: I have to admit, I haven't used it in a while,
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: but I do like sigils. That is a thing, but
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: you have to keep track of your sigils. It actually
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: helped hone in my magical practices when it comes to
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  Speaker 4: documenting Because even though, yes, sigils are made, you make
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: them personally for whatever you want.
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  Speaker 5: Sometimes if you haven't been using them, you'll forget.
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  Speaker 4: What's the purpose of that one? And you don't apply
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: them to typical everyday symbols. That's the number one thing.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: But I like being so personalized for whatever you want
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: for you. I'm under the believe that if i if
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: someone creates a sigil it's not for me it's for
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: them and the the energy won't go for what i
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  Speaker 4: want because someone already created it that's why it's i
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: find it i did that's why i think it works
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  Speaker 4: the way it does because it is curtailed down to
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: almost to your thought process.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I agree i strongly agree i think that now there's
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: there's when we're talking about sigil magic, we're not talking
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: about one thing here, right? It's like, I'm very interested
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: in what the OTO has to say about sigil magic. Um,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: but you know, there's like the goetic sigils, for example,
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  Speaker 1: sigils you'll find in a book that are historic are
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: radically different than one you make because you need a
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: raise at your job, right? Those are two different types
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  Speaker 1: of magic. They're both relying on this symbolic framework to,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: But they work very differently. Or, for example, a memetic sigil.
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  Speaker 1: If I make a sigil and I post it to Instagram. So,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: for example, I did a hex ice sigil because fuck
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: those guys. And, you know, it got tens and thousands
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: of views. So that's tens of thousands of people just
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: seeing it and being like, yeah, fuck those guys. And
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: putting all that psychic energy towards fuck those guys. You
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? And that has power behind it,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: but it's a different kind of power. then the power
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  Speaker 1: I'm using if I make a sigil again to create
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  Speaker 1: an event in my life tomorrow.
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  Speaker 5: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I've wondered about, you know, I was thinking
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  Speaker 3: about this earlier because I knew we were having the
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: sigil show. And I often wondered, like, do some logos,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: especially on.
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  Speaker 2: Like certain like expensive companies that really don't need to
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: probably be as expensive, you know, shit like, I'll say
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  Speaker 2: like Prada or like Louis Vuitton, you know, shit like that.
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  Speaker 3: You know, do, do they almost like somehow become like, uh,
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  Speaker 3: fed by the people's attention and become like its own egregore?
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And then like, that's what almost even just makes it
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  Speaker 3: what it is. And like, so powerful.
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  Speaker 4: I was actually watching a video a couple of days ago, uh,
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  Speaker 4: about the popular advertisements that you have there.
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  Speaker 5: I'm not going to mention anyone cause I don't want
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: anyone to come after us.
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  Speaker 4: But, uh, They were talking about speaking to the owner
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  Speaker 4: and what it meant behind it. So they technically, even
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  Speaker 4: though they're like something, I don't want to use anything
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  Speaker 4: popular that anybody knows, but like an advertisement that you
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: see that symbol, you know what it is. They put
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: that thought process to be prosperous out there with this product.
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  Speaker 4: And everybody who buys it on a daily puts that
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  Speaker 4: energy right back into that. Yep.
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  Speaker 5: For them.
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  Speaker 4: And they broke it down and they spoke to these
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  Speaker 4: owners and the creators and they explained why they chose
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  Speaker 4: that particular symbol or something like that.
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  Speaker 1: There's a little psychology you can put into the symbols
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  Speaker 1: and the way they look, which is another aspect of this.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Curves and straight lines. One makes you more pleasing to
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  Speaker 3: the eye. The other one creates confusion, almost agitation.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So, for example, if you look at the unicrucial hexagram,
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  Speaker 1: the Crowley's Symbol of Philema, there's something very interesting about it.
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  Speaker 1: Or the one that everyone absolutely knows who's ever done
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: anything with magic, the pentagram. There's something. about that symbol
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  Speaker 1: that makes you go, oh, whoa, what's that? It sticks
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: in your brain, right? Especially to me, the inverted pentagram.
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  Speaker 1: It's like I was drawn to that. I don't even
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: know why I was drawn to it before I ever
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: got into magic. And part of that is it contains
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the golden ratio. It contains five. And your brain recognizes that.
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  Speaker 1: But you don't know why.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that pentagram was a... When it comes to geometry,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's why we have rational and irrational numbers.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: It's very interesting what that pentagram did. Honestly, with mathematics
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: and shit.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: And actually, if.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: You think about it, it's... That even... You start putting
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: your energy... That's what most people... tend to overlook the
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: minute you start creating it, you are putting that energy
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: out there. You are putting it, the energy, the moment
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: that pen touched the paper.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: I would even say, uh, even with the pentagram, like I,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: I like, I think maybe part five into like a
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: 20 part series. I already have it like Dawn. I
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: just have to record it, uh, of like the history
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: of the pentagram. And it has been used by so
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: many people for so many different reasons. It's just like, yo,
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: I think he's got to have picked up how many.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: It's just ridiculous what it's looked at now and used for.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, Christians used it.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Everybody's used it. None of it is like going, the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: thing that bothers me about it so much is that
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I get why so many people have used that symbol,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: but the argument that you see most of the time
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: online is it's either the symbol of Wicca or the
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: symbol of Satanism. I'm like, it is phagoras, bitch. Like,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: it is not Wicca or Satanism, both of which were
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: created in the mid-1900s. This goes back thousands of years.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: Well, think about the symbol's, That we've had, like you said,
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  Speaker 4: thousands of years that have been perverted. And the energy
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: that was placed behind that. So that's basically the same
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: mechanics for when it comes to sigils. But you're just
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: doing it on a personal level, on a more....
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: And then... It's also that you're this is one of
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: my favorite things to talk about in the entire world
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: is that you have two brain hemispheres. You have two brains.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: You don't have one brain with two halves. You have
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: two fucking brains that are connected by a third ingredient. Right.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: And they disagree with each other a lot and they
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: work completely differently. So left brain, this is where your
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: speech center is. Right brain don't have that. Right brain
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: speaks in symbols.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: And the right brain, your subconscious, and this is, by
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the way, this is a massive oversimplification, just the gist
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: of it, right? Right brain, subconscious, massively more powerful than
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: dumbass calculator brain over here. But this one's in charge.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: So you can write down an intent, right? And then
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: turn it into a symbol that the subconscious can understand
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: because it does not understand your words. There's no speech
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: center over there. So you take the words, turn them
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: into a symbol. That's the left brain giving the right
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: brain instructions.
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: So someone who is more visual would be more right brain.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Right. You know, it's interesting. I was even.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Again, massive oversimplification. You use your whole brain all the time.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: There's not stuff that's like... The old belief was that
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: certain things are strictly left brain and certain things are
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: strictly right brain. And that's not... As true as people
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: once thought, but it is still essentially true. And, you know,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: we as a species are massively, overwhelmingly left-brained. There's not
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: a single human being on Earth that is, like, more
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: right-brained than they are left-brained. That way, maybe in severe
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: cases of autism. But if that were true, you'd be nonverbal.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: You would not function. right so your right brain is
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: this this but it's where your creativity comes from it's
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: where your feelings are it's where all that stuff that
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: isn't rational it's all over here that's where magic is.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: You know it's interesting i was uh making this point
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: and uh i don't know if maybe i would say
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: well especially with letters that's definitely you know you could
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: say those are sigils in themselves but i would even
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: maybe even say these codices that i was covering i
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: was just i just uploaded the first part i'm gonna
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: record the second but i started already hopefully finish it
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: tomorrow I was working on like these, um, these Nawa
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: codices and they're just images basically, you know? And I,
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: I was trying to make the point that I was like,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: you know, I think we're so used to seeing letters
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: on written on a line and then either reading it
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: from left to right or right to left to understand
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: how to look at something. So like who, you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: how are we going to look at them and then,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: and say, we understand what the fuck that image means.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: Because they obviously aren't using the same system we use
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: to describe shit.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: You know, they're using images and complex deep shit. And
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: it's just like, yeah.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: So I was even trying to get at that. So
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: even their brain probably just worked differently than we did
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: to an extent with that.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, if you think about it, when you're learning
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: different languages, and I'm not talking about Latin-based languages. languages
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: and talking about like other countries that use symbols and stuff,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: it takes a very long time for us to learn
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: those languages.
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: And that's the reason why.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: Because it doesn't have that connection. Again, the connection with
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: the sigils. It doesn't have that connection with us because
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: that's not what we grew up with. That's not what
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: we were raised in. That's not how we communicate.
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Have you guys heard of the Wharf Hypothesis?
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: No.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: The morph hypothesis is the idea that the language you
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: speak massively colors the way you interpret reality.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: So a person who speaks Spanish and a person who
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: speaks English live in different realities.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: I can see that.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: That is true. Because language is the construct that we
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: use for everything. Ooh. I don't know if you guys
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: have seen this, but watch the movie. If you haven't
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: seen the movie Arrival, it's so good if you're a
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: nerd and you want to see like a... It's kind
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: of like a nerdy movie. No, that was an amazing movie.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: But these aliens come down to Earth and their language
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: is drawn in circles. Yep. And by learning the language,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the main character, the protagonist... learns to experience reality is cyclical,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and she no longer experiences time the way we do,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: just by learning this language. No, it's like she crossed
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the abyss or some weird shit, dude. In action.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that chick almost had a magical experience from cracking
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: that shit or whatever.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: It was not fucking bonkers.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that movie I thought was great.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Language is what orients our brain to everything. Yeah. True.
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: But also, now that I have a question... That just
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: popped up in his head. So does that also mean
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: that to learn a different language is like learning, is
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: like you're reprogramming your brain to experience it and you're
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: opening yourself up to that magical experience?
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I wonder if knowing multiple languages helps with using more
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: of your brain or something.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder, right? Because, well, you know, it depends
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: because most of our languages follow a very similar construct, right?
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Like all the Latin-based languages. They're similar enough that I
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: don't think it would be a huge difference. But then, like, Japanese,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: for example, is very different.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, right. Right.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And I don't know anything about, I think it looks cool,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: but that's all I know about it. So I have
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: no idea what that would open up for you in
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: your brain. But, like, it doesn't resemble English at all. True.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: True.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Don't even write this not left to right. It's one
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: symbol can mean four different things. You know, there's so
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: much going on in there that it would be foreign
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: to us. And I think it's so cool.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is, yeah.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've known somebody who learned, well, I know a
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: few people who learned Japanese and they said that shit
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: was hard.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I bet. Yeah, very difficult language to learn. So I've
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: been told.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: But.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying. But yeah, with the... What was I
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: going to say about sigils? Judith, when you did sigils,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: would you... Did you ever use the magic square style?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Or did you just kind of use the.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: I used the alphabet.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. All right.
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: I didn't use the magic square. I am horrible at math.
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: I ain't going to lie.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: So.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: anything that you put in front of me that I
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: have to use something, if that concept, it'll take me
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: much longer. And that back then I was kind of impatient.
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: So I wanted to do it right then and there.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, I get that. You know, that is true. I
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: was even thinking about that.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: And when we were talking about something, uh, I think, uh,
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: you know, once I started kind of getting into like,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: you know, just the alphabet and the numerical stuff with
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: that and, you know, like it's chaos, magic or chaos
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: style more. Um, I didn't have to, obviously, if I'm
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: using the planetary system or squares, it would kind of
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: make sense if I started going by the planetary hours
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: and the days. And, like, now it becomes a structured
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: thing that it's like I can't.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Technically just do it right now, you know, if I
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: want to adhere to this whole thing. So I did
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: like how that, in the few cases where.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: I did think it was, you know, I needed to
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: do something kind of like off, you know, whatever wasn't planned,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: I did you know worked great still worked for me
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: I think you know and there's less boundaries to.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: It I think it would probably work incredibly well I
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: don't have the patience for that but I'll bet it
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: works incredibly.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Well no yeah but you know again just using the
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: chaos style one I did you know I did like
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: the freedom of just being able to kind of like
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: you know do it as things come up.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah I think that the psychodrama aspect of magic is
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: incredibly important. So, like, let's say you read some really
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: old complex ritual from ancient Egypt or Samaria or wherever, right?
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I think just going through all those steps and making
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: sure you did every little thing exactly right builds up
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the idea in your mind that you did it right
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: and therefore it will work. And so it eliminates doubt.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And if it eliminates doubt, then it's making your magic
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: work better, 100%. Because doubt kills magic faster than anything.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And also just that we human beings thrive on that
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: progressive step-by-step kind of way of doing things. And that's
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: why I think that people like me, who have severe ADHD,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: can't cope with that. And so we need systems like
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: chaos magic.
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: I could see that.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: But I also found with sigils, though, you tend to
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: slow down just a little bit so you can be
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: more precise than if you're just going to do a
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: circle for something. And I think that's why I think
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: sigils work better only because you have to stop and
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: you have to think, what exactly am I asking for
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: at this point in time? Where you could just have
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: an intent sometimes when you go into a circle.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Yo, that is really true. It's so funny.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I mentioned this in the last time
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: we did this also, but that's, I think, a huge
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: part of the real magic of sigils in the chaos
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: magic sense is in the phrasing of your initial statement
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: of intent and how precise can you be with your
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: words in Because if you say, like, I want more money, okay,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: and you find a dollar, cool, you have more money.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: It worked.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? That doesn't– it's not nearly
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: clear enough. So the clearer and more powerful you can
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: make that statement of intention, the better it's going to work, right? So, again,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I tell everyone to do this because I'm not a gatekeeper,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: but the sigil that I use that literally changed my
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: life from being miserable to being a fucking– drywall guy
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: to how the fuck did I write a book? What
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: am I even doing here? To get to where I
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: am now, all started with a sigil, with a statement
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that says, I am always in the right place at
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the right time.
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: That's a good one.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: A good one. And then ever since I did that,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I was always in the right place at the right time.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Even if it doesn't feel like it in that exact moment,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: everything led me to exactly where I want to be,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: which is right here, right now.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess you really can't state yourself
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: too wrong with that one, right? Right, exactly.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: No potential for backfire with that one.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: You need to consider when you're making that statement, will
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: this backfire? Is this really what I want? Is this
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: actually good for me? Am I stating it in a
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: clear way? Does it have potential to keep working long
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: into the future or is it just for something I
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: need right now? Either is fine, but you have to
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: think about all of these things and then craft a statement.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: And now we're talking about just the power of words, right?
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: And then take that and turn that into a sigil.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: And now you've got something really, really powerful.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Your subconscious is even like, damn, that's good, dude.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: Fuck.
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: I guess that's why it works so well and so
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: quickly when you.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: When you create it at that time. Because it's a
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: lot more. There's a process for when you're doing ritual,
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: and then there's a process when you're doing sigils.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Yes. And you can combine them, which I think is
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: like the right way to do it. So ritual and
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: magic are like peanut butter and jelly. They go incredibly
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: well together, but they are not the same thing. in
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: fact then they go so well together that maybe you
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: can't imagine having one without the other but they're not
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the same thing.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I would even say with certain stuff that is incorporated
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: into rituals that I think is actually like kind of
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: part of the magic can be done or reduplicated without
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: doing it that way yeah put it that way absolutely.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: You can do magic and never engage in ritual and
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: you can have all kinds of rituals that have no
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: magical effects whatsoever yeah I'm.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Sure I did those myself. I wrote plenty of those myself.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I'm sure.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Well, ritual has a psychological effect, if not a magical effect.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: And then, and then you'd be like, well, yeah, but
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: what aren't psychology and magic the same thing? No, they're
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: like peanut butter and jelly. They go really well together,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: but they're not the same thing. And that's true with
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: all kinds of little areas of, of everything that we
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: talk about here. So like the entire umbrella of esoteric
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: philosophy is all these different examples of peanut butter and jelly.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: But none of them actually are the one thing, and
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: it's in the different combinations of, okay, so now we've
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: got different types of peanut butter, and we have almond butter,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: and all the different things, and we have all the
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: different types of jam, and finding the right combinations of
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: peanut butters and jams is how we get all these
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: different types of magic.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I definitely agree with that. I like that. Yeah,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: peanut butter and jelly is a magic ritual. Right, because you.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Can do peanut butter and grape jelly, but what if
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: you did hazelnut butter and strawberry jam? Hazelnut.
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: I haven't had dinner yet. That's not fair.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the munchies. I'm smoking. I'm like, fuck.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would even say, and I've said before myself,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Some of the most profound experiences I had just came
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: from sitting down and meditating in the god pose. I
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: did no rituals. So, I mean, you know, I guess
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: a ritual wasn't needed for those. I didn't have to
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: do this whole psychodrama fucking experience.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Do you think, though, that ritual enhances the magic? I mean,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, no. I think for sure. So many different aspects.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: I think even if it's just a mind attaching itself,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: like for a ceremonial magician.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: You have all these associations. You have this on there
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: because you're working with mercury. You have this herb. You
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: have this crystal. You have this color. You got this
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: and that.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: You have all these associations that by the time you're done,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: you've already got this shit beat into your head about
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: what the hell you're looking for, what you're expecting or
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: what you're associating with. And I do think that helps
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: really create some sort of connections. Just on that level,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: besides many other different things.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I definitely think ritual can help. I think
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: it would help even if you did all that stuff
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: and then had my experience.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Where maybe you just had a crazy experience just meditating.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: For me, there's been certain things I've looked at that
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: I was like, when I looked at what I used
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: to use in ritual work, I looked at it in
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: a different way and kind of stood out to me
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: in different ways. I could see it being there, but
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: just for different symbolism and different reasons. So it did
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: kind of actually add to it, didn't take away from it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I would say it almost even kind of cosigns some
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: certain ideas that I had that maybe it is a
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: little bit more physical or even more scientific.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: But I just didn't notice it looking at it through
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: this lens.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: I would even say, like, I'll put it myself because
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: I was a little bit, you know, maybe even I
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: was looking at some stuff a little bit, woo-woo, to
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: an extent.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: You know, keep it real.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: And then I had certain experiences and it just kind
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: of made me like, hmm, maybe there's something else here.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Man, I went through a phase of several years of
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Where I would like back away from anything that I
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: consider to be woo woo. And then I'm like, why
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: the fuck am I practicing magic? If I don't like
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: things that are woo. See that word implies something that
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't even have a fucking definition.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I hate to even use it because yeah. Yeah.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Because I'll even say myself, I was in my practice
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: for years at the same time. That's kind of where
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I got the, the practicality that's part of my brand
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: or whatever now, you know, but it's, It's still so
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: weird because you'll have ideas that you're grounded in and
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: then realize, wait a minute, maybe that's bullshit. And then
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: you move over here and you find new ideas and
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: it's like you move back and forth. It's so hard
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: to pin this stuff down. It's so hard. I think
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: everything we're doing with magic is we're all just poking
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: at our brains being like, do the thing. Do the
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: thing I want you to do.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: I'm glad you mentioned that because I wanted to ask you, Sanre,
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: do you think Going through the ritual part helps the
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: two sides of the brains talk to each other?
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: And there's ways to facilitate that specifically. So I have
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: um something that i created that you can purchase on
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: my website it's only ten dollars and it is a
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: sigil ritual so it's a ritual meditation it's like a
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: guided meditation but it's a guided ritual that walks you
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: through making a sigil and burning it on your altar
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: and it uses hemi-sync not the brand hemi-sync but binaural
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: beats and which specifically are designed to synchronize your rain hemispheres.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to take as many different methodologies
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: as I can and smush them all together to get
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: something really, really effective. But I think the more stuff
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: you layer into your magic, as long as it makes
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: sense to you and you can explain why you're doing it,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: the more is better.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I was kind of saying even before, like,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: you know, with, like, some associations, you know, the more
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: layered I got with some.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Of the stuff.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: As long as you know what they are and they
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: help your magic, yes.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: I would even get down to sometimes the altar cloth,
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: I would have certain colors for that. Sometimes I would
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: even change the light bulb to the color of, like,
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: whatever I was kind of working with.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: So, yeah. I definitely think that all does. Yeah, that
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: all does make a difference. Some people may feel like Odeon,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: but maybe that's what your brain needs.
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: I have a question for both of you. Do you
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: keep a sigil diary?
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I would say it was a diary, but any time
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I did rituals in the past, I would always write
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: them down, what I was doing. And I would have.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: If I made a talisman, I would kind of have
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: explained what I was, or a sigil. But a lot
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: of my talismans all had sigils on them. So a
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: lot of times I would even explain what I was
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: using it.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: You mentioned it before, you may forget. There's times where
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: it's like I might have used the Mars square to
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: write strength in there and then put it onto a
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Mars sigil.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: I may have forgot that five years ago and be like,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the fuck that is because I
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: used the Mars square.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: It could be anything.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: But I have it in there now when I gave
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: the idea of what this talisman was structured and why.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I used it.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Though I do keep a sigil diary, sort of. And
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I want to preface this by saying that my attitude
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: towards magic is very experimental, very much fuck around and
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: find out. I want to, I want to, I want
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: to fuck around and find out.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I got like that later on actually.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: What I will do is create a sigil with a
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: very clear statement of intent and then copy the sigil,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: but not the statement of intent over to the diary.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: So I have no idea what the fuck they mean.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: And most of mine look vaguely similar enough that there's
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: no way I'm going to be telling them apart. And
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: then I can just, as long as I know that I,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: that I still, that there's nothing I put in there
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: that like, Oh no, I don't want that to happen anymore.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: then I can just flip through it and look through
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: sigils from years ago and reactivate them, even though I
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: don't consciously remember what they were for. And I think
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of fun, because then a bunch of
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: weird shit will start happening in your life if you
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: just start looking through your old sigils, because you reactivate
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: them in your subconscious, even if you don't consciously remember
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: what they're for.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: For sure. Oh, yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: So you have to be careful. Again, this is why
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: your statement of intent is very, very important to get
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: it right. Right? Yeah. And then, I'm so sorry I lost,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: but we were just talking about, like, methods of activation
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: or was i just thinking about that i.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: Think that came to town but actually it's part of
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: the process.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Though well you can see the ritual thing right like
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: okay this is what i was thinking about it's because
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: sometimes i do that but sometimes i'll burn a sigil
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: if i burn it i don't put it in a
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: diary and if i if i burn it then i'm
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: just doing something different like i do all these different
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: things for different reasons um And, you know, you can
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: put a drop of blood on a sigil to activate it.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: You could put it in a diary and look at
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: it again. You could hide it somewhere in your house
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: where you occasionally see it, but not really. That's another
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: method that works. You could bury it under a full moon.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: You could, you know, you could get weird and sexual
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: with it like Jack Parsons. You know, you could do that.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: But I don't think any are better than the other.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: But I have a funny story about this because my
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: ex-girlfriend died. who's just, you know, a very funny person, um,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: would make a sigil and then eat it. And that
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: shit worked really well. But clearly there's no one correct.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't think so either. No, no.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: You have me thinking about, uh, yeah, the sigils. When, um, Judith,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: when you used to, uh, I was assuming with you, like.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: How did you, did you ever get rid of yours? Like,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: did you burn them or like, what'd you do? Like,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: how'd you, like when you were done? Um, I think
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: you might've mentioned it before.
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: Any, anything that, that I, that I didn't want to
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: keep going on and on and on forever. Yeah.
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: They got burnt.
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: Burning is the best way. Uh, I do have a
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: social book and I don't even know where it is
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: at this point, but, uh, I, uh, I don't reactivate them.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: At least I try not to. That's probably why I
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: don't know where the book is. Um, but it's usually
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: a one shot deal for me. I don't like things
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: cause like your, your, your intent change in time. I
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: like to keep that where, all right, I had enough
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: of this. We were, we're, we're good where we are
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: type of thing. Um, so for activation ritual, And energy.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: I like the full moon. It's my best friend.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was another thing, too.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: I don't think, again, you know, I think when it
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: came to, like, using, like, the magical squares or if
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: I was using a ceremonial system or whatever, I would
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: always normally kind of include the moon, obviously, if I
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: was waxing and waning. Again, I wouldn't necessarily have to
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: worry about that.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: If I did it the other way. I would maybe
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: take it into consideration, but again, if it's something I'm
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: thinking I should do today or tomorrow, I guess I
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: got to work around the moon.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: I think I like sigils more too when it comes
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: to practice because.
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: It causes you to slow down. We are impulse people. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: And whatever method you use to either create it and
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: charge it The timing has to be right. It has
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: to be under the right planet or the right moon
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: or the right zodiac sign, depending. And if you don't have...
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: This is my earmark. If I don't have the patience
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: to wait, it's not worth doing. Mm-hmm.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Or just do it right. I mean, like, with the
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: moon phases, for example, the moon signs, if your intent
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: with your sigil... is very like action oriented and you're
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: doing it under a cancer full moon. Like, I don't
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: know if that's going to work out so well, you
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Or, you know, a water, maybe
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: any water sign because they're, because they're introverted, not extroverted,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean you can't just make the sigil
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: and burn it right that second. Just don't wait for
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: the moon. Do it a different way. But if you can,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: if you happen to have a full moon, let's say
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: in Aries, um, when you want to do something, it's
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: very action oriented. Great. Do that. Like wait, wait a day,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: but I'm not going to fucking wait six months to
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: do spells waiting for the moon to be in the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: right phase. I'm never going to do that.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, if you probably really knew what the
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: hell you were doing with astrology, like I'm, I'm sure
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: there'd be even ways of probably working around. You might
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: even realize like somehow it doesn't even matter what that
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: moon is saying.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: The stars are aligned regardless. You know what I'm saying?
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: You have no idea. One thing I did want to ask, too,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: and I guess.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: That's probably why I was wondering, like, if you kept
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: them or not, Judith, or if you got rid of them. Anyway,
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: I got rid of a lot of mine for the
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: most part, too. But, you know, there is, I kind
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: of mentioned in the first episode, in the introduction, and
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: I did want to get your ideas on if you
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: think this stuff actually works. But, you know, there was
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: the Ars Notoria, and then Giordano Bruno had some memory systems.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: And the Osnotoria was like these, they were kind of
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: like sigils or symbols. I mean, almost the same thing.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: And you would pretty much like meditate on them. And
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: I think they had either rituals that went with them
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: or meditations or whatever. But eventually it was supposed to
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: give you knowledge and help, you know, divine knowledge or
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: memory or this and that. And then Giordano Bruno specifically
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: had a disc. that had like all these different symbols
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: and sigils on it that.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: You would go through.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: And I think he said after like 90 days, your
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: memory would be like ridiculously different. And supposedly he proved
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: it to some king. I forgot who it is by now.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: I'd have to go back and listen to my own show.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: But he supposedly, I think like they said, that he
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: pretty much had like almost an encyclopedia type of memory.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: They said they'd never see.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: He had to actually convince them It was natural magic
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: because it actually was kind of frightening to them. That
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: was still back in the day when if you said
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: this was natural magic, they weren't going to burn you
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: at the stake.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, it's Giordano Bruno. We know what happened. He got
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: burned anyway, but he escaped that one.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: But supposedly that shit worked. And I was even mentioning
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: before how there is known that curves, I get it,
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: kind of people like that against beauty or whatever, and
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: then certain angles or whatever can cause different feelings. do
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: you think that there you think you can actually like
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: it says stuff that will like if you stare at
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: or even make it yourself stare at it it can
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: actually really affect your subconscious that much if it's like
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: a yes.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: But I think that this prep work for that though
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: you don't think that you would have to you would
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: have to.
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: How can I say It's.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: Like you would have to train that muscle that this
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: means this to automatically cause that automatic response.
• 39:55
  Speaker 5: That's what I feel. I see that look, Sunray.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: I don't think you're wrong. I wonder, though. I'll tell
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: you why I wonder. You know where mama and dada
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: come from? The words that every baby says first? They're
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: the Sumerian words for mother and father. Literally. You were
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: born speaking Sumerian You have a tremendous amount of information,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: genetic memory, in your DNA. You don't know how you know,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: but there's things you just know. That's true. And so
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: that's our ancestral history. And we've been doing this for
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: way longer than anyone knows. Because Gobekli Tepe fucks everything up.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Sumeria was not the first civilization. And we have no
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: idea how far back our history actually goes. Yeah. What
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: if it goes back? I mean, I know I'm getting
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: into some really fringe shit here, Graham Hancock type stuff.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: But what if it goes back a million years? What
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: if human beings are way fucking older than we think
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: we are?
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: And so how much genetic memory is in you? And
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: if there's memories of language that exists within you. then
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: there could be memories of symbols. But also, on top
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: of that, what if there's just mathematical geometric shapes that
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: affect you? So we were talking about the pentagram. The
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: pentagram has a psychological effect on people, and it's based
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: on math that they probably don't know. Gross.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Most people in the.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: World don't understand the golden ratio, and yet when they
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: see it, they're like, oh, that's beautiful. Why is that, right?
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: But what if there's other particular shapes that just have
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: an effect on your psyche? I think that's, I'm not
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: saying I think it's true. I'm saying, I think it's possible.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Maybe a cross too.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Right. And certain ships, especially the simple ones definitely have
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: an effect, right? Like, let's just think about an X.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: An X has a psychological effect on people. It means
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: don't go there. It's kind of, it's pretty universal. You know,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: it's like a warning.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: Like everything coming to a corner.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: That's very true. That do something to us, but how
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: complex would the shape have to be? How, or how
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: simple would it have to be or how precise? I
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: don't know the answers to any of this. I'm just saying,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I think it's weirdly possible.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: You know, uh, I, you know, not thinking about the
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: whole DNA thing, but that does to me, that doesn't
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: make a whole lot of sense. And looking at how
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: I've looked at DNA, assuming that, that we probably do
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: have some maybe stuff in us that we haven't turned
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: on or remembered because of our past. I would have
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: to say, I guess, how would sigils or images that
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: have been around for thousands of years not do that
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: for us, too?
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Like, especially, what if we were into this shit in
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: prior lives?
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: And we're looking at the symbol again. That's true.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: So, for example, this is kind of... I don't know
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: how I feel about the whole past lives thing. I
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: think there's something real there, but I think we get
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: it kind of weirdly wrong a lot too. I don't know.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I don't want to get into it, but I will
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: tell you, I was born with unequivocally born with a ridiculous,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: irrational fear of sharks. I hate water. I thought when
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I was a kid, I was convinced there was a
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: shark in the swimming pool. I would not get in.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: I knew like my rational mind knows there's no shark.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: But what experience in a past life did I have
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: that made me so fucking terrified of sharks? I have
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: no reason to be scared of sharks the way that
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I am. They freaked me out even seeing a picture
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: of a shark freaks me out. It's totally irrational. Where
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: does that come from?
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: So that actually brings down a little rabbit hole that
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: I'm just going to speculate.
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: With, but What if when we are creating these sigils,
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: we're not creating them, we're remembering them?
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Yo, I've thought that too, for sure.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What if what we're drawing in a sigil is
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: a constellation? We have absolutely no idea.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: One day they're going to unearth some shit that's like 30,000
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: years ago and it's going to have that S-shaped thing
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: that we used to draw in school on our fucking textbooks.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: We're like, fuck, that's why we were all drawing that
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: shit at the same time.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: My kid's history homework.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Yo, fuck. Yes. Yes.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Where did he pick this up?
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't do that.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? But like when you were
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: 10 years old, you would draw that shit no matter what.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Yo, that is fucking awesome.
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: No matter where you're from, too. You will find the
• 44:39
  Speaker 5: homework or the school paper with that S.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: But it gets even weirder. It gets much weirder because
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: when we were all young, this was a brand. It
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: was Stussy. You remember that?
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: That brand does not exist anymore. This is my 10-year-old's homework.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: He's never heard of that brand. Never. Wow.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know it came from Stussy at first.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I do the brands. I was probably done with, like,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: drawing that when I knew of the brand.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Dude, what if this is it? What if this is, like,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: the ultimate glyph? Like, this is the fucking master symbol
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: right here.
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, my.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: God.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: But that could be true coming how we unconsciously all
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: know it through the generations.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's, like, one of the strongest glyphs out there, right?
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. The amount of schools that thing's infiltrated. Right?
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: And it goes through the genres. You could be the outcast.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: You could be the brainiac kid. You could be the jock,
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: and you still had that on your paper.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Yo, right? Yeah, that is true, too. It really had
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with it. It was very inclusive. Oh, wow.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: That is so fucking funny, though. Like, everybody. It didn't matter. Like,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: you could have been pumping, like, Snoop Dogg in your
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: head or Radiohead in the other kid's ears, and you
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: both could have been throwing the same shit. That is awesome.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: That is wild. That's funny.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: That was a good one. Seriously, it's wild, though.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: It's crazy how you just pulled it out to him
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: like oh.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Yep another one though this happens with language too right
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: and they did it i don't remember who did this
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: study it's many years old now but all over the
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: world all children no matter what language you speak do
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: one same thing every fucking kid in the world does
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: that no matter what language and it does it has
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: an effect it has a psychological effect it means haha
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: i'm laughing at you right no matter what that is
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: true And it's a sound.
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: That is interesting.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. There are sounds, colors, and shapes that have deep
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: psychological effects on us that we don't understand, that seem
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: to be universal.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And then we, not even knowing, use them and put
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: them out there ourselves.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we just use them naturally. Like, it's just
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: the most natural thing to do this, right?
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: To draw these shapes or make these sounds, we don't
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: know where they came from at all.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Just the implications of putting a circle.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Around a symbol. It does sound funny, but I would
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: not be surprised. Again, I would absolutely not be shocked
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: if we do find this, like in ancient Egypt. I
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: would honestly just not be surprised. I don't think we will,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: but I would be like, okay, that makes sense.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: That's why they don't let us go back in there.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: They've been like real crazy. They've been real crazy.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: That's what they're fucking hiding.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're hiding that. Fuck.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: Since we're talking about sigils, I have a question and
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: someone brought something up.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: Nick, you'll appreciate this.
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: So do you believe someone brought up the graffiti and
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: the tagging that happened in the 70s and the 80s
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: on our subway cars and on our walls here? Could
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: that have been like a subconscious way of like these
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: kids back in the day creating their own sigils?
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, if we really start to
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: think about it, I mean, if you really kind of
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: look at what they're trying to do, I do think
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: it kind of fits.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: It just, you know, they're just not looking at it
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: in the same system we are. Like, I'll even say, like,
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys even know who he is.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: Frankie Bones, he was a DJ. Very, very famous techno DJ.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: He kind of brought the rave scene into.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: New York.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: And he admits that he used to tag all the time.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: And it was just so people knew who the fuck
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: his name was. He said he would tag the trains,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: he would tag places, everything.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Frankie was here.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was just like, you know, it was
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: a way of... kind of, I guess, putting a stamp
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: out there. Yeah. I mean, I've even noticed, as silly
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: as it is, it's fucking weird, dude. I actually saw,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: I wish I remember it, but it was like a
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: sticker that I saw in New York. I saw the
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: same motherfucker over in Italy. Because I had these like
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: stickers made to advertise the podcast.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: You know, those ones that you kind of like people
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: like kind of basically tag with. They'll use stickers to
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: tag with.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I'm being a lowlife, and sometimes I'll
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: go out, and I'll take some stickers with me, and
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: I'll throw them in a couple of pocket lots when
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: I go out. I'm like, fuck it. Who cares? I'm
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: going to be a degenerate today. And sometimes since I've
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: been doing that, I've started noticing, like, a lot of
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: the same ones. And some of them are very interesting.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: I've seen some with legit, like, symbolism on them. So
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: I've even wondered, like, or even some of, like, Sometimes
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I've even wondered some of these like tags that I've
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: seen done with stickers. Is that even like somebody kind
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: of like putting something out there? I've even wanted to
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: tell you the truth, not to get conspiratorial, but there's
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: been some that I've seen that I was like, is
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: this kind of marking this area to be like kind
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: of go ahead for some creepster or something?
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: You know, very weird shit like that. Or you see
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: like slapped up on like the walls of bodegas.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: And you just wonder, like, is somebody leaving a mark
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: for somebody who has the ID? Absolutely.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Not to say that that's definitely what the thing is.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do people do that?
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: And I've just noticed this all now because of me
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: just throwing up a few.
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: I was like, yo, there's like some whole culture with
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: throwing up stickers. Fucking weird, man. Yeah, that's what I
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: was saying. There was somebody in New York that I
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: had seen. And I was over in Italy. I think
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: I was in Venice and I was walking down the street.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: I was with my ex-wife at the time. I was like, oh,
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: hold up. And I looked down like there was a
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: side street and like on the, like some like panel
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: on the wall.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: I was like, get the fuck out of here. I
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: had to take a picture of it. I was like, yo,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: I've seen this.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: In New York.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: And she was like, well, I guess technically if you
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: would have brought a sticker of yours and left it here,
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: you could say the same thing about you.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: I was like, fuck, you're right.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: But I was like, what the fuck is the odds
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: of that?
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, weird. And I don't even know what
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: the fuck it means. It was like, it was just
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: like a symbol on a sticker. I was like, well, yeah.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Very weird shit.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Things have a way of sticking in your subconscious where you,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: and like, okay, and here's an idea, right? The entire
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: idea of something being memetic is that it's self-replicating, right?
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: So something sticks in your mind, The S is the
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: perfect example of this. You would just, you were compelled
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: by some outside fucking force to replicate it over and
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: over and over and over again.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: How many times did you draw that S when you
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: were a kid? Oh, yeah.
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: Oh, gosh.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Why do we do that? It's like you can't help it.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: You have to draw it. So what's compelling us to
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: do that?
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is interesting because you could even start doing
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: it and not even realize it.
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: Which actually brings up another question.
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: Is it a form of hypnotism?
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: Are we hypnotizing ourselves to get that outcome with a sigil?
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Or is the symbol alive and is using you to
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: replicate itself?
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: That's a whole different iceberg you want to go down.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: That's a whole different iceberg you want to go down.
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: Well, the sad thing about it, if we follow the
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: theory of DNA and we're remembering.
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: It, then you have to say who's leading who.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's interesting. Well, think, think about, um, what's that,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: that fucking cat disease.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Um, I think, you know, you get some bacteria from
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: them or some shit like that.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something plasmosis.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: One second, let me read it. It is.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Well, that's not what I'm fucking looking for. Okay, well,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: you know what you guys know what I'm talking about.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: It's tryptoplasmosis or something like that. Someone just put it up. Okay,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: what is it? What does it say?
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: I can't even pronounce those words.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: Toxoplasmosis. Yeah.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Yes. Toxoplasmosis. Okay. So, toxoplasmosis is a living organism that
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: can only replicate itself inside the stomach of a cat.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: But it can't infect the cat directly, so it infects
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: the rat. infects mice and rats, and changes their brain
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: chemistry to make them sexually attracted to cats so that
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: they will go bother the cat. The cat then eats
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: the rat or the mouse, and then the toxoplasmosis can
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: replicate itself. That's how smart that organism is.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: That's kind of scary.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: It's terrifying. And there's many, many organisms that do this, right?
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: So there's... I'm not a scientist. I just want to
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: remind people that I'm just a dude who reads shit, but.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: If you, for example, have certain blood-borne illnesses, you are
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: statistically more likely to die a bloody death so that
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: it can spread itself. If you have syphilis, you become hypersexual,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: so the syphilis wants to spread itself. Not you. It's
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: the thing in you that's hijacking your brain. So why
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: would we think that a symbol can't do that also?
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: There's another one that everyone has, but I've got it.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: We probably all, maybe Nick, not you, but I've certainly
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: got it. There's a gut bacteria that just craves sugar.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: It's not you.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: It's not me that craves sugar. It's the bacteria in
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: my stomach that's telling my brain, you really want to
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: fucking slurpee right now.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: That could even happen with salt.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't know that until a few years ago.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: My buddy, who's a mycologist, is always talking about this.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: He says, like, you know what's fucked up? And he
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: says this to me, and I'm like, dude, please don't
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: say that to me. He's like, you're scaring the shit
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: out of me. Because he's a real scientist. And he's like,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: it's not that you are what you eat. You are
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: what's eating you.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: That's wild.
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: That hit kind of hard for me right now because.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Of my age. And then, wait, wait, wait, it gets worse.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Then we can start to talk about the djinn. you know,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: the djinn, which are very comparable to the spirits of Galatia,
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: by the way. There's a lot of correlations there. But
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: there's certain ancient writings that equate the djinn to parasites
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: and bacteria, which are these things that hijack your brain. Right?
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: So you have particular parasites or bacteria in your body.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: They're telling you to perform certain behaviors like we were
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: just talking about, right?
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: So.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Why couldn't the symbol do this also?
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: I believe that. Right?
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: Expiration dates are good.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Right? Sorry. Yeah, seriously. This is shit. This is the
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: problem with reading so much. I don't want to know
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: this stuff. I do, and I really... Sometimes you learn something,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: and you can never unlearn it.
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: But you know that it but when you, when you're
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: doing magic, you have to think like this. I never
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: thought about is the sigil, is the sigils what ruling
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: you or are you telling it what to do?
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, okay. To be fair, you, you
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: don't have to think like this. It's fun for those
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: of us who do, but for, I think a lot
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: of the fun of magic for a lot of people
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: in this, we'll come right back to sigils. Is that
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: for people who just like get a book of spells
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and they're like, if you do this, this
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: will happen. And they don't want to think any deeper
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: into it than that. There's nothing wrong with that.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Like, there's nothing wrong with being told, hey, if you
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: carry around a piece of rose quartz, you might end
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: up with a new romantic partner soon. Somebody's like, oh, yeah, really?
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: And so they do it, and it works. They don't
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: need to get into the fucking science of it. That's me.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: I'm weird. I like to know how things work. But
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: there's an argument to be made that if you don't
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: know how it works, that might actually be a benefit
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: to you because it retains the mystic qualities of it.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: For a lot of people, yes.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: But not for me. I need to know how it
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: works or I go crazy. But I understand not needing
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: to know, and I'm kind of envious of it sometimes.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, that, yeah.
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: Especially the most recent rabbit hole you just opened up.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: I like figuring shit out now.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Even though I'm probably wrong about absolutely everything, I'm at
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: least trying to figure shit out.
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: In a year or so, we're going to be talking
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: again and we're going to be like, Sanre, you remember?
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: They just proved your theory.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: I do enjoy that. I enjoy that a lot, actually,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: when I hear someone much smarter than me talking about
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: this stuff and I'm like, ah, they said the same
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: thing I said. Oh, yeah.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fun. Yeah. It's like, oh, okay,
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not the only person with that idea.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: I was talking to, or I was watching the Y-Files recently,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: and on their podcast they had this dude who's absolutely amazing, Uh, Nick,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you about him later. His name's, um, Brian Lathe,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: paranormal investigator with a PhD. Oh, and I'm listening to him.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I'm like, Oh my God, I got to get this
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: guy on my show. So I messaged him. I mean,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: you know, he's going to get him on the order
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: of chaos podcast at some point, but like so much
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: of what he said was like, Oh my God, I
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: think that too.
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: That's so cool.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: That is awesome. I really think the paranormal community could
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: really benefit from getting into occultism or whatever you want
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: to call it, magic.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: Not even so much practicing, maybe just kind of at
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: least reading other theories or some shit.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I think the paranormal... See, this is the thing, right?
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: This dude... again, his name is Brian Laith, and he
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: was recently on the Y-Files, and it was mind-blowing to
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: listen to him talk, is the fucking opposite of Ghost Bros.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Because you know what? I mean, the fucking thing, the
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: whole paranormal research needs to be labeled what it actually is,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: which is paranormal entertainment.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: But this guy, Brian Laith, is doing paranormal research.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: That is a big difference. That actually is a huge difference,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: because there's no research going on, like you said, yeah.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: No. You know what's funny?
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: I've even watched some of these newest shows, and it's
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: like you're watching it, and all of a sudden it ends,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, wait, so there was like, no, let's
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: review the evidence at all even for this.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: They stopped faking it. That was just... Wow, okay.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: Samra, I did want to bring.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: You brought up the Y-Files, and I do actually watch
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: that podcast, and he's had a lot of people there
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: who like scientists, like people with books, people, and they
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: keep referencing certain things within the occult. And I'm sitting
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: there like we are on the brink of a new
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: scientific breakthrough. That's going to prove magic to be scientifically true.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: It's what we're right there.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: It's going to happen within our lifetimes. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not a scientist. My book, I hope that I
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: got pretty close. Because we're talking about things we don't
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: have proof of yet. We don't know which model of
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: quantum physics is correct. We don't know. But what if
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: we figured out? And all I wanted to do with
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: my book is try and push things further in that direction.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: Really try to look at this from a more grounded,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: less supernatural perspective.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: I think 10 years from now, if people were to
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: look at your book, they'd be like, yo, this guy
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: was ahead of his time.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: Even 10 or 15 years from now.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Totally. Or he was looking in the same direction.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Because I do think within the next 10, 15 years,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: I do think there will be a lot more, even
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: with science and paranormal community, I think understanding of magic, actually.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I was thinking about this earlier because
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: I saw Sabine Hosenfelder put up a video about how,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: you know, at the Large Hadron Collider, they may have
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: finally found evidence of quantum gravity. And it was in
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: a photon, right? And I'm like, okay, so there's certain
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: things that we don't know about how our reality works.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: And it takes a $ 80 billion machine to figure them out. Well,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of paranormal and psychic phenomena is also unfortunately
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: going to take an $ 80 billion investment to really figure
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: it out. But no one's going to make that investment.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: That's true.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: They already did and they're hiding it from us.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: There's also the chance that it might be something that
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: they accidentally stumble into while they're investigating all these other things.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah but I mean to prove it in a lab
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: though is going to be so hard because it's just
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: like the way that my brain creates psychic effects is
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: different from yours and yours and his and hers and
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah right it's not going to be
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: some thing that you can test reliably and get the
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: same result every time which is how the scientific method
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: works well this falls like paranormal psychic phenomenon is at
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: odds with the scientific method but that doesn't mean it's
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: not real.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: True No, I agree with that.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, even Crowley, I forgot the exact phrase, but
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: there was even a couple of phrases he tossed out
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: there that was talking about some, I think, scientific or
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: magical method or some shit like that.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: Illuminism or some shit.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: Maybe he had a name for it, where it was
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: kind of like, you know, he sounded like he was
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: kind of like mixing, like, I guess, looking at it
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: and documenting it all and kind of looking at it
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: in a scientific way of, like, results of what he
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: did to get this.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Even he was like, I think, was pointing at it
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: in a scientific way.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Well, that's like the Holy Grail for all of us.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: We all desperately want to be able to prove this.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Here it is. I proved it. Yeah, right?
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: If you're like, if I could go down this avenue
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: and do it, fuck it.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's just not going to be that simple
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: because it's slippery, just like quantum physics is slippery.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: And you have more people trying to prove it doesn't exist.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: then people trying to prove it does exist.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: The severe cognitive bias. And, you know, it's understandable because if,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: if when you prove that this stuff is real, it
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: shatters religions. Some of them, it can fuck up religion.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: It can fuck up. you know, people's sense of self.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: It can fuck up this idea. You know, a lot
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: of people hate astrology with a burning passion because they
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: don't like the idea that they're not in control of
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: their lives. But if they actually understood astrology, they'd understand
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: that that's not true. Astrology doesn't say this is going
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: to happen in this order, in this way. Astrology shows,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: gives you a blueprint of who you are. At least
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: that's what natal astrology does, right? So, you know, the
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: misunderstandings lead to these horrific cognitive biases that get people
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: to hate all this stuff. I mean, religion's the biggest one, right?
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Especially Christianity saying burn the witches. Like that's, that is
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: still happening.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Like witch hunts never ended.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: It just changed. It's a. Yeah.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: It's still happening. Panic is still real. Yo, I've heard.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 5: Oh, that's still a thing.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Also think about jealousy, the jealousy factor. What if magic
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: is real and I can do it, but you can't,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: you're going to hate me. But that's not true. Everyone
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: can do this.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: That's what I'm thinking.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: But not everyone understands. We spend our whole lives in
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: this realm. Think about the average person. They don't know
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: what the fuck we know. We've dedicated our whole lives
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: to this. But you've got to remember the average person
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: is just scared of it.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: You know, I have something that I was going to
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: work on. I don't know if I'm going to do
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: it because it was more of like an interesting topic.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: because I do like a lot of these people, but
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: I'll just keep it real. The reason I was going
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: to even do the episode was more of like, I think,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: to prove a point to a lot of Christian listeners
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: or podcasters. But like a lot of stuff that we
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: use in ceremonial magic came from Christians and Catholics.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Ceremonial magic is an Abrahamic practice. Polymotic magic?
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Come on.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: I was like, yo, do they even realize a lot
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: of this stuff that they'll point out and be like, satanic, satanic.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: It's like, yo, your people actually came up with that
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: or kind of put that together.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: The Bible is full of mysticism. It's full of it.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Like, come on. Willow's Weep.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 5: Willow's Weep, right there. That one symbol with the house.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: That's the number one. They turned it, and I was like,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: but that was yours. And it was actually a very
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: beautiful symbol. Why would you do that? Why would you
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: invert it to turn it to something so negative?
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're talking about the cross
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: and the pentagram, right?
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: But uh yo you know uh because of the time
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: i am gonna have to probably wrap it up actually
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: now if you guys oh yeah yeah i got another
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: show at 7 45 meet you up here another podcast
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: are you oh shit okay all right yeah nice oh
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: my goodness okay yeah Sorry, guys. No, no, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry. Hopefully,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: was there anything else you wanted to add, Judith? I mean,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: we can go another couple of minutes if there's anything
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: that you wanted to make sure.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: One thing we didn't talk about when it comes to
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Sigil and AgaGidget, just for everyone who's listening, or anyone
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: who ever listens to this in the future, is that
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: it's the most accessible type of, like, easiest. You can
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: learn to do it in two minutes. Do it. Just
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: go try this.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: It works.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: It's really cool.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: It's fun.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 5: Try small first.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, man.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: Baby steps.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. Nice. Yeah, no, thank you.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much for that, Sunray. I appreciate that.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: Before we wrap it up, do you want to let
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: you go, Sunray? Do you want to remind everybody again
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: about your book and your YouTube and your class and
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: everything else?
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Well, I have made the switch now, so
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: if you want to find my website, it's now chaoswitchcraft.org.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: The name of my book is Chaos Witchcraft. The name
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: of the kind of magic that I practice is Chaos Witchcraft.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: The book, again, is called Chaos Witchcraft. You can buy
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: it on Amazon. I think it's probably pretty good, and
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: I hope you like it.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: I definitely think if people pick this up, that listen
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: to this show, I'll be for real, I think... this book,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: it really reflects a lot of the stuff that I
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: talk about on the show.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: I'm so bad at selling myself, man.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: I know. That's why I'm like, I'm not even trying
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: to like, because he's on the show, like from what
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: I read, I was like, God damn, this is good.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: I thoroughly enjoyed it, actually. So, yeah, I'll promote it
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: for you. But thank you again, Sunray. I really appreciate
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: you coming on, man. It's always a pleasure. What about,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: you want to promote, like, what about your YouTube channel
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: and everything? Did you mention that?
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I have a YouTube channel. You know, everything,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: if you look, The Order of Chaos, that's me, right?
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: You'll find Instagram, YouTube, chaoswatchcraft.org. Come hang out. We're having
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: a good time over here.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: Awesome. Awesome.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 5: Nice.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much again, Sunray. And Judith, thank you
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: again for making this. I really appreciate it.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: Thank you for having me.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: If you're going to have another discussion, I would like
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: to talk about the different types of systems within sigil making.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we could get into that. There was so much
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: that I actually left out. You could do a whole podcast.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, like a whole network series on sigil matching.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: That's how deep it goes.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, we could do that. I actually would
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: have no problem to kind of... Maybe a little bit more.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: Of the advanced or detailed parts of it. Yeah, we
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: could do that again for sure. It's always a great time. Anyway, regardless,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: chatting it up with you. So, yeah, that's it.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you, everybody. If people are still listening, you ain't
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: got nothing to do, sorry. But if you want, you can,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: I guess, come back in 10, 15 minutes and I'll
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: be on with Ryan Gable. And he's got a secret
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: teachings podcast.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: He's coming on. He's into conspiracy. He's into occultism and stuff.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: So it should be a really interesting and fun chat.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: And that's why we go live. And I appreciate it again,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: everybody that was in the chat. That's what's up. And
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: until the next one, everybody be well.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: Later.