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Beyond Words - Molly Ness · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Dr.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Molly Ness is a former classroom teacher, a reading researcher, and a teacher educator.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: She earned a doctorate in reading education at the University of Virginia and spent 16 years as an associate professor at Fordham University in New York City.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: The author of five books, Molly serves on the board of directors for the International Literacy Association and is a New York State chapter founder of the Reading League.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Ness has extensive experience in reading clinics, consulting with school districts leading professional development, and advising school systems on research-based reading instruction.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: She is the creator of the End Book Deserts Podcast, which brings awareness to the 32 million American children who lack access to books.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome, Molly.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Looking forward to having a great chat to you because there is a lot to discuss about the literary, the literacy epidemic that we're seeing globally.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually just reading, now it's the End Book Deserts podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which brings awareness to the 32 million American children who lack access to books.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now you started this podcast.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about that, because that's really interesting place.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, the figures are insane.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: 32 million children, American children.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's not even global.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I started it when I was a university professor and uh sort of stumbled into the research, which really quantified how pressing book access is of an issue for um primarily our low-income students.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: But when I talk about a book desert, I talk about not only geographic areas where books are scarce or hard to come by, but also book access for kids who are often underserved or sort of overlooked populations.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And by that I mean kids whose parents are incarcerated or deployed, kids who might live in the foster care system in the United States where they are moving on a quick turnaround and don't have access to books.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I started this in 2019 when I came to the research.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I had been living in the literacy research world for at that point almost 25 years, and the research was new to me.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I sort of felt like if it was not familiar to me, there were lots of people who also didn't know such a pressing issue.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the intent was to not only bring awareness to the issue, but also to showcase the innovative people and programs who are working all over the country to bring books to kids in really engaging, innovative ways.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's been about 50 different podcasts where I interview people who are doing this work, everything from a sort of small grassroots community organization to multi-million dollar organizations that are doing the work at a much larger level.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not dissimilar, actually, in concept to what we're doing with this podcast.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite a broad brush because we actually need one.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, we need it in so many.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is this goes to seven countries, this podcast, because the American issue is monolithic, as you've just outlined, but it's also reflected in so many other countries.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what were some of the, I suppose, um, uniform issues that you saw emerge?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh what sort of age group, for example, are we talking about that are the hardest hit?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so it's actually all age groups, and the majority of programs that are working to increase book access are really looking at the early childhood um uh age frame.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So sort of the the in the United States, the kindergarten to grade five, so kids about age six to 11 or so.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, book access does not get any better when kids uh get older in age.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's actually an area that we have to be really aware of that um kids need books, regardless if they are six years old or if they're 16 years old.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's really um not as many programs that are working to get books to kids in secondary schools.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we sort of dabbled a little bit about the the numbers that are so staggering that it's 32 million American kids.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's actually some research that really helps us understand it at an even more nuanced level.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, 60% of our low-income families have no access to books in their homes, schools, and communities.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm careful to talk about this as a home, school, and community occurrence because we know so much that kids who often lack access to books in their homes are living in areas where public libraries are under-resourced and have limited areas.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's a really fascinating study that looked at three major metropolitan areas in the New York, in the uh in the United States, and they looked at different neighborhoods in these areas.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: One were high-income areas and one were low income areas.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And this research team literally just pounded the pavement.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they took public buses, they walked, they sort of emulated what they would have to do if they were children outside of school hours to get access to books.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the results and the discrepancy between the high-income areas and the low-income areas was just unbelievable.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: In Washington, D.C., our nation's capital, um, the low-income area, an area called Anacostia, 843 kids would have to share one book to have access to it outside of school air, school hours, versus just a few miles away, Capitol Hill, a much higher income area, had 16 times as many books.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we're really starting to see just how the how issues of poverty um so complicate the problem.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: That is really quite an extraordinary uh stat, isn't it?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're talking about sort of almost the same geography.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not the demographics, not that far from each other.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what were there any solutions to come out of that research in terms of how to bridge that gap?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're talking it's not that physically hard, for example, for argument's sake, for a bus from the inverted gomma's top end to drive books in a library bus down to the less fortunate.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like what why is that logistically so challenging?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And is that being addressed?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, how?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're um you're getting at one of the things that has always sort of puzzled me when we talk about books.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about things that um are easily transportable.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about something that has no expiration date.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So this is not something that's, you know, it's not like food where it's going to expire.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like a um a service that is connected with a human being.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So easy to get out there.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the research is really um a little unclear on um not, well, let me back up and say that the easy part of this is actually getting books to kids.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: There are all sorts of ways that organizations in the United States have done this.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: There are organizations that um Dolly Parton, who many of us know, is sort of an American icon, in um in the in certain areas in the country, when you are um a baby is born at a hospital, you go on a registry, and Dolly Parton Imagination Library, for the first five years of that child's life, every month a book is mailed to that child at home.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: There are organizations that um do have book vending machines, brand new books in high population, high visibility areas.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: So in the United States, we have these organizations called the Boys and Girls Clubs, which provides services to families, or we have um, you know, books that are available in WIC centers, which in the United States is our uh sort of the equivalent of food stamps.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So people are being really mindful about reaching people where they are and coupling the services that many families need.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if you're a family that needs books, you also may need access to food and diapers and school uniforms.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are these organizations that create these enormous warehouses where one family can sort of cross off all of the things on their list that they might need, knowing that for families who are living below the poverty line, they may not have the time and resources to go to eight different places to get all the things that they need for their kids.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So there are lots of innovative ways to do this.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: But what I'm starting to think more and more about isn't just distributing books, because that's kind of the easy part, but really the longitudinal work of growing literacy culture, the importance, the need, and the role of literacy as children grow in age.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's an area that I think we need to do a lot more sort of thinking and learning about, because as I like to say, it's kind of easy and you can kind of pat yourself on the back when you say, we distributed two million books a year, but we don't yet know how book distribution improves school readiness, um, literacy habits, and lifelong reading.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's the work that I'm starting to spend a little more time digging into.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's a very good point that you do raise because there's no point having all of these books if they're not desired or seen as a means to an end or engaging, or you have people and students that can't read.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so what so how do we backflip that?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So assuming that some of the logistics, as you've outlined, which are multifactorial, are quite effective, of getting books to the right people, to the right places, as you've talked about.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the ways then you've seen be effective in dealing with the issue that you just raised?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a good point.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I'm really interested in programs that take community members themselves, not external people, people who have grown up in the P in the community, people who know the fabric of the neighborhood and the culture, and sort of train them or help them become sort of literacy role models.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a great program in New York City that does this so well.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: They take people who have grown up in the area, they um help them be sort of ambassadors to um community members, families, parents, community members to really show ways to engage in literacy and also knowing the population that they serve.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so many times we sort of think we send these messages of um that are somewhat unintentional, that you know, you should read to your kids, and we're not mindful that many of these parents or caregivers may have negative associations with schooling or literacy themselves.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they doubt their own literacy skills, maybe they are not native English speakers and we're only giving them books in English.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really interested in programs that are really being intentional and mindful about knowing who they are serving and knowing the best ways to help them understand how literacy um adds to the quality of their life.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So is it I'm going to um help you with your literacy skills for a job interview or for your library card application or to fill out your voter registration?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's um really being intentional about how the purpose of literacy will empower citizens and um the role it's going to serve in their life.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a very valid point too, because I suppose the most critical issues, everything you've outlined, plus even things like going to the doctor, filling out forms, one of the um one of the guys that I interviewed who is only learning to read at 30 because he was incarcerated for so long and had a wonderful interview with him, and he was saying the greatest terror for him was that he'd have to go to the doctor and fill out the forms about, you know, and literally couldn't read.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really confronting.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you're talking about purpose-led literacy skills, so that cultivated or fostered by people in the community that have a role.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So just give me a little like an actual example.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're saying, for example, let's say you had a pharmacist-related literacy ambassador.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you mean?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's sort of aligned.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you would you would take so the you take these literacy role models who meet in a very respectful, very sort of, we're working together.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: What are, and and you talk with community members and you say, what are the challenges that you are facing on your daily life?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: What would make your life better if you could read and write better?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you sort of help them understand, okay, so we need to fill out this form so your child can register for school.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about this, let's do it with this, rather than sort of give these blanket messages of you need to read to your children, which may sort of fall on deaf ears if it's not really relevant to the needs and the nuances and the daily challenges that people um are facing.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you're even saying more than that, some of them are actually threatened by that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Having to do that, it can be quite daunting.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that makes a lot of sense.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, there's this there's a great study that looked at um, I'm gonna blank on the year, but it's a recent study.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say it's like 2022, um, that looked at Philadelphia.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Philadelphia is a um sort of moderately sized city with a very high poverty population.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a great citywide initiative that sort of brings together lots and lots of literacy programs, adult literacy programs, programs working in schools, and is really trying to understand the collective work.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and this study, the it was one of the first studies that, in addition to a quantitative component, looked at a qualitative component.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they actually reached out to the people, the community members who were receiving these books and interviewed them about their experiences.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it was pretty interesting that there was a disconnect between some of these literacy programs who thought they were doing the right thing and what people who were on the receiving end felt.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they felt like they were getting books that were overly complicated or irrelevant to their lives.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: They um wanted more simplistic books, sort of concept books, um, which it makes sense.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you are a parent who's who's struggling with literacy yourself, you're not confident in your reading abilities, and you get a stack of children's books, which are lovely books, you know, very dense, lots of sophisticated vocabulary, they may just be sort of pushed aside.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're that same parent who gets sort of simple concept books about, you know, going to the doctor or first day of school, those feel a little bit more approachable.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think um we also have to be more mindful of listening to the voices whom we are serving.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this uh study in Philadelphia did a really nice job um helping those voices be reflected so we could understand the impact of the people we were trying to improve the lives of through literacy.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that that does make a lot of sense.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and also I suppose there's an element of, as you say, there's no point just a whole lot of books being delivered to a home or a school or a community and they're they're they're not having a relevance to their lives, but also being unattainable and to some degree daunting.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So do you think without it sounding, there's an element of it can come across as patronizing to absolutely, you know, without it, without it being, let's call it unintentional patronizing or patronization, where it's a lack of understanding about the end user.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you're saying.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the research is critical, yeah, to getting that information.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad you brought that up because that was was one of the takeaways when um programs really stopped and listened to the voices of the people they were serving.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I and in no ways were um these programs trying to intentionally send that message.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: These were well-intentioned programs, um, but it just spoke to the need to really understand the community, understand the culture and the fabric of the community, and understand that um what are the day-to-day sort of concrete, tangible ways in which literacy will be used within this community?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is it to, you know, read the map for the public bus?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is it to register your child for um you know a soccer program?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's really where we can start to help people understand literacy um as a way to sort of improve their day-to-day life trajectory.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And are you seeing programs implemented like that in America yet?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned one earlier, but that had a slight variable.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: But are you seeing is this being implemented?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think this study that came out recently, this I I want to say 2021, 2022, who can remember post-pandemic anymore.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's the first time that we really started to get the messaging around, okay, there's this disconnect, these programs that are well-intentioned and um may be sending the wrong books, maybe um overlooking the needs of the community.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was a real eye-opener for a lot of organizations that are doing this work.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a uh a part of a relatively recent organization called the National Book Access Association, which was um created a couple of years ago sort of as an offspring of the End Book Deserts podcast, because what we were seeing is all of these programs were sort of operating in silos or in isolation.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there wasn't sort of a professional community or organization to bring people together to um problem solve, to learn from each other, to really um help this larger community, anybody in the book access world, anybody in the literacy culture world, um, to sort of connect.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And this National Book Access Association is starting to do that work in a really mindful way, so that we're taking ideas sort of out of silos and isolation and creating a larger nationwide network that also can be, you know, more voices coming together, gets more spotlight.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, then we can sort of start looking at are there issues around policy, are there issues of funding that we can be more powerful through a collective organization?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so you've centralized, and if that's reasonably new, but it's sort of logical, isn't it, really?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because then you can also access each other's research.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that sounds like something that could be quite useful in many countries to have that.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it'll be interesting to see how this uh particular organization operates.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're seeing is that it's being really effective, and then also you don't cross over each other, you don't double up, you can actually unify.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that sounds quite exciting.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like there is traction?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's an example of some traction, but are you actually on the ground?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are you seeing to me the figures are just staggering with so many?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know at the World Literacy Foundation, we have so many people involved, so many organizations, so many, as you've outlined.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, there is an element of siloing, although World Literacy Foundation is quite a centralized and amazing resource for people.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: But are you seeing on the ground improvement?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because this the numbers are quite still staggering.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: They just how many people have literacy issues?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are um staggering.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Where I'm starting to see some real movement is national awareness of this.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like myself, you know, until five years ago, again, I live in this literacy bubble and I've lived in it for almost three decades.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't know this research, you know, somebody who is in a profession that's completely unrelated is likely to not know them as well.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm starting to see a lot of um collective awareness.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and some of it sort of aligns with this is a pretty unique moment in um the American literacy landscape.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Conversations about literacy, the decline of literacy rates, the decline of people reading for pleasure, these conversations about the science of reading, at least in America, they feel like they are at fever pitch level.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: We have documentary movies and podcasts, and you know, you turn on the national news now.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: What sort of was previously um seen as a school-based issue or um sort of a issue in a bubble.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're really starting to have conversations at the national level.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we're starting to understand that literacy is an issue not just for kids in schools, but um we literally all pay the price for illiteracy and a literacy, the uh intentional not choose choosing not to read.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think those conversations are trickling into state legislation.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's an exciting moment, and people are starting to understand that not only is the way that we teach reading essential, and a lot of the work that I do is in that translating research to classroom instruction, but that access and access to books and making sure kids have the materials that they need to become lifelong readers is also a key challenge that we're grappling with.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: today.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting because the chance uh give me some of the stats.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't read and write, can you give me some of the statistics?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, unfortunately we know that we can really follow literacy into almost every aspect of a child's life.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: People kids who struggle to read or kids who don't read grow up into adults who struggle to read and adults who don't read.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds sort of obvious, but we sort of think of it as just a kid problem.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And really we now can see that literacy impacts children's mental health, children's reliance on public assistance.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: We can start to see that our rates of incarceration, our rates of our children's poverty, absolutely, reliance on public assistance, all of these sorts of things really are linked back to literacy.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so as sort of gloom and doom as the moment kind of feels around our literacy rates, I actually sort of see us in this moment of um extraordinary potential and possibility.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And by that I mean we are having so many people come to the table about these conversations of literacy.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's no longer just teachers and people who live in school communities and people who live in literacy, but our um healthcare profession is starting to understand that a child's literacy trajectory impacts their entire life trajectory.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're starting to see state policies.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: So all of these people are starting to understand wow literacy matters so much not only to individual people, but to the fabric of our community, our nation's financial prosperity.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so when so many people come to the table to have these conversations, that's where I get energized about okay, now that we're having all of these conversations, we can really do something meaningful to address them.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I hope we uh we harness those conversations and realize also that this is not a short-term fix and that we really have the stamina and the patience to stick with um really committing to improving the quality of reading instruction as well as um helping people understand how much literacy matters collectively and individually what's interesting so you've got two arms there obviously I'm thinking really what you're talking about is a collaborative or a universal responsibility and if you think of the two arms obviously other than the education sector obviously you're thinking corporate corporate America government are you getting a lot of traction I was actually speaking to Andy today and we were talking about how a lot of these corporates are now seeing the value in investing in the literacy space.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we're talking about non they don't have to be educational institutions.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're often quite diverse from fashion to travel to you know hotel chains all different sorts of of organizations that are investing their philanthropic funds in this direction which I think is really fascinating.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: What's your take on that?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: We are definitely seeing that and I think um it is equally as exciting because corporations are starting to understand that um at the end of the day their bottom dollar which is essentially their financial security depends on workers who have basic literacy skills.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we have a pool of people who struggle with literacy are um hiring our you know long-term financial prospects are compromised one of my favorite organizations that um really commits a lot of their philanthropic dollars is Dollar General which if you are not familiar with it overseas Dollar General that um has intentionally very low prices and it's sort of one of those places stop shopping.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you can go there to get like a target?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think so yeah it's it's it's a sort of a smaller scale target um because you can go there to get your diapers but you can also go there to get you know your dog food.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: But they are intentionally really um they are they often are found in more rural communities that don't have the public transportation to get to you know eight different places to get all the things you need for a household.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they do really fabulous work around literacy.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: One of my podcasts was with Dollar General because they're so committed to literacy and trying when you actually when you go to the checkout there's all these pamphlets that if you're a shopper there you can pick up a pamphlet that's you know how to read with your four-year-old or how to ask your teenager about reading.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So they're trying to intentionally reach out to their shoppers as well as really committing some some corporate money to it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they have grants for all sorts of literacy programs.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's one grant that is specifically for schools and communities who have lost their libraries due to natural disasters in the uh fall in the United States we always have you know huge hurricanes that flood entire libraries and so you can apply to Dollar General to get money to rebuild your school or classroom library.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: So they have a just an amazing group of um programs through the Dollar General Literacy Foundation.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love hearing those stories and hearing corporate America corporate full stop stepping up and seeing the value because as you pointed out before I think you're right up until maybe a few years ago it's always been seen as very much an education issue, you know, in the education department.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean even government so how are you seeing government are they across you mentioned the health sector are you seeing that also apply in in government bodies what you've just outlined in a corporate sector?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: We are we're starting to see so the United States is very much each you know obviously there's a federal government but each state sort of has different legislation and we're starting to see a lot of states tackle literacy legislation and we're starting to see it at things like early screening for kids who may potentially have reading difficulties, teacher development but we're also starting to see some states take money in their budget and allocate it for organizations like Dolly Parton Imagination Library.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we are starting to see that it's not just states committing to teacher training and what happens within schools but really supporting families and parents and caregivers around literacy.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite organizations in America is called Reach Out and Read.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what Reach Out and Read does is they train pediatricians and family healthcare providers to every time a family comes in with their child from you know birth to age eight or so not only does Reach Out and Read um give kids books when they go to the to their to their checkup.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yep they have doctors and pediatricians talk to parents as they're doing the wellcare visit, as you know they're taking the child's height and weight and giving immunizations, talk to the children and the families about literacy.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what to me is so cool about that is we know that change happens with families and habits and sort of community culture when they hear the same message from lots of different people.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're hearing from your school and your pediatrician who you trust so much that that's where you bring your child when you're sick, how much literacy matters that's where we can start to see some really cool changes in behavior.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And reach out and read um it's worth visiting their website because they have a really robust they have they have an amazing body of research that's really starting to show that what they're doing in the doctor's office is improving early literacy for children going into school.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: What a logical thing to do like it's so logical and practical to me and whoever developed that is just that's just it just has such you can see how that would be so effective and it's also in a sort of a non-threatening way because it's you know they're there to see the doctor and so it's done as part of almost attendance you know and and being nurtured by the the doctor or the health clinic that they're visiting.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's brilliant and I think that could be I'm gonna look at their website that would be a really great interview but also I love it if it could be applied and there was a universality to that sort of I don't know it's obviously just American driven at this point I'm assuming.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually even just what you've outlined in our interview thus far, there's some pretty groundbreaking programs aren't there that you've just you know if you look at the scope and then we haven't even touched the surface because as we know we've got the summit in April in the UK which is I think there's 800 people attending and it's it's an extra I mean every it's always very successful.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: But we have just touched the surface of how many uh educators, teachers, professors and people wanting to to improve the literacy space is it is it a little um awe-inspiring for you to see it and and I suppose uplifting it is and um what I love is as I've been doing these podcast interviews um I keep saying to myself what a genius idea why didn't we think of that before you know organizations that are working in public laundromats to have literacy corners um organizations that um are having barbers and um uh barbershop books which has when kids go to get haircuts which in certain communities in America it's a very much sort of a a culture uh cultural nuance they talk to their kids about reading so all of these organizations that are just doing this innovative engaging and just brilliant work um continues to remind me um how much potential and possibility there is and I when I started the podcast I sort of thought like oh maybe I'll get to some of the international programs because I've really been just focused on um American ones but I haven't even been able to get there because there's so many which is frankly is a great pro problem to have and and the intention again is to say like wow if that's working in Philadelphia it can work in Portland or what a genius idea.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: We could do that with a relatively limited budget.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: We could do that here and so I can't wait to connect um at World Literacy Foundation with uh some of the people who are doing this at the global level.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I look forward and hopefully I'll see you there and I thank you so much.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate your time.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: I love your energy and your commitment and your passion to the literacy what I call the literacy revolution because I think it is one and it is happening and I feel optimistic and inspired by hearing some of the amazing work that you're involved with.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much Molly for joining us on the Beyond Words World Literacy Foundation podcast.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well at the World Literacy Foundation we believe in literacy is the foundation of lifelong learning and education.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: People who cannot read or write experience difficulties with simple everyday tasks such as reading the label of a medicine bottle, filling in a job application or understanding a traffic sign.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: When we help someone to acquire literacy skills we're empowering them to access to better opportunities in life to break the poverty cycle.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's a global organisation in Africa, Latin America, the United States, United Kingdom and in Australia.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: The World Literacy Foundation is on a mission to ensure that every child regardless of geographic location has the opportunity to acquire literacy skills and books to reach their full potential.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're striving to eradicate literacy by 2040.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Reading and writing should just be a basic right not a privilege.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: So please if you're interested head to our website at the World Literacy Foundation to see what is happening globally, this extraordinary organisation when we realise that there are 750 million people who cannot read and write.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: So see if you can contribute and make a difference