Latest / Skin Anarchy / The Science Behind Inflammation and Aging With Deinde and Debut CEO, Joshua Britton

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The Science Behind Inflammation and Aging With Deinde and Debut CEO, Joshua Britton · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchies.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is Ekta and I have such a wonderful brand that I'm going to introduce you guys to today.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously we have our CEO, um, the mastermind behind it.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I just want to let everybody know that this conversation is gonna be a lot about a topic that I think is now up and coming in the the science of skin space, you know, which is this idea of inflammation and what that really actually means for skin health.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited to talk about that with you guys.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: But without further ado, please welcome uh Joshua Britton, who is the CEO of Dende.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Josh.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to host you.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I am so excited to be here.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, really excited to get into the science today behind Dende and what makes this so special.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for having me.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, let's go.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'd love to dive in.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you're also um, you know, behind Debut, which is a bigger company, and I'd love to learn a little bit about you, if you don't mind, about you know, where Dende really started and where the idea came from to focus on like inflammation when it comes to skin health.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you could kind of look at it.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great one.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so you know, I I transitioned out of um academia to building uh debut and of course um Dende.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the real reason behind that is as you know, most science stays in the lab, right?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think every many people listening to this, many of the people and part of the team have worked on science for many, many, many years, but it never makes its way out of the lab, into product, into people's homes, and makes an impact.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: So really started debut with that.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and of course, the way we actually deliver the best science and the best formulations to the world is through Dende.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And look, Dende has a team now of 80 scientists dedicated to researching and creating novel ingredients through biotechnology.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, Dende was the thinking of how can we best and quickest bring these benefits to consumers that are truly effective and accessible to all.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we have this platform where we can screen 50 billion molecules to look at uh consumer needs, and one of the consumer needs we really uh saw stand out was uh inflammation.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was a topic, like you just said at the start, that has been rising, consumers have been talking about it.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: But when we looked at the current ingredients out there to power Dundee, there was nothing really that was special or stood out to us.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what we did then is we went back through ingredient discovery, all the biotechnology, and we actually found our first hero ingredient, which I'm sure we'll get into later, which looks at inflammaging.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand like inflammaging is probably a term that not everyone may be familiar with.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I can go into that if you want to and really get into it.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, please do.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to talk about the hallmarks of inflammation, also the like the key molecular players, you know, that would be great.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, look, unlike acute inflammation, which is the body's temporary response to injury.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you fall off your skis or your bike and you get that that pain and that swelling, you know, that that's inflammation.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's the body's natural way of dealing with stress.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: However, um, when we look at inflammation, it's a chronic low-level form of inflammation that persists over time, even in the absence uh of an immediate threat.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there was lots of academic literature, there was lots of publication, and the medical community really started talking about inflammation as one of the root causes of aging and especially skin aging.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so this was the perfect combination of what we stand for, which is great science backing what consumers need, biotechnology come into the forefront to address the consumer need.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the two just went hand in hand, and thus Dende was born.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's where Dende originated from, and it's what we stand for today.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I love that that you were able to identify that there is a need for like a new molecule, a new ingredient here, you know, because I think inflammation is a very, very interesting topic in the sense that, you know, scientists, when we look at it, we're looking at, okay, there are various different types of inflammation triggered by various different types of things, right?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: But with the skin and the way that it manifests, a lot of times consumers reach this point where they're seeing the redness, you know, they're seeing the the scratchy skin and the scaly skin, and then they something like eczema develops, right?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, that's something that it become, I mean, by the time you recognize that for everyone listening, that's really way down the line of inflammation.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's very fascinating what you've done here because to be able to really tackle inflammation daily, I think is the key, right?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to talk about that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what was the you know, what was the molecule that you decided to focus on or the compound that you decided to focus on here for the line and for, you know, battling inflammation?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's a great, you know, you just mentioned a few things which are really key, which is like how everyday living in this complex world that keeps evolving, you know, with more UV, exposure, pollutions.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, how do we design ingredients to keep up with fighting uh inflammation, especially when it's so prevalent in today's society and day or ritual?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and like you said, it's part of people's routine now, um, you know, and Dende is a part of that, but it's it's a lifestyle choice now to go after uh inflammation.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, we went back uh and we discovered an ingredient.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we screened thousands of ingredients and we discovered one called naringenin.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, naringenin is central to our formulas.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's the first ingredient that came through the platform whereby we did all of the genomics, the preclinical, all the proteomics, uh, and then all of the clinical testing, right?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the first ingredient that got us really excited because it addressed something new and interesting uh in the market.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: It solved the inflammation problem, but more importantly, you know, clinically, it solved the inflammation uh problem.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we got excited by naringenin because it's, you know, in the preclinical assays, so the protein assays, we saw uh a reduction of IL6 by 15 fold compared to niacinamide.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's compared to niacinamide at a much lower concentration of naringenin.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really the first indication of like, okay, there are, you know, multiple ingredients can work together, and naringenin is going to be part of the toolbox of the formulator to really go after the inflammation aspects.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's very fascinating that you saw such a downregulation of IL6.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I mean, that's huge for anyone listening, just to clarify, IL6 is one of like the most like I guess um textbook examples of a pro-inflammatory marker.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's an intraleukin.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, that and TNF alpha, these are really the big hallmarks of inflammation, you know, when you look at it in any tissue in the body.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's huge that they were able to see this response, you know, um, directly.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's really big.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, what about the formulation process?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know that, you know, in the world we live in right now with skincare, as you know, you know, it's it's really complicated with formulation.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a lot of uh cool technologies coming out that are like, you know, I hear exosomes a lot, for example, you know, um, verdict is still out, you know, for me personally on exosomes, but you know, there's a lot of different ways to deliver these molecules.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that is really key.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: What did what was your approach to that, like that delivery aspect of the of the finding?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, there's there's two things about delivering brand new biotech ingredients in skincare, which are really important.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the first is that these are new ingredients, they are not just drop-ins to formulations, they often require us to really develop the formulation technology to ensure that the efficacy of these ingredients we see on a preclinical basis translate to when it's formulated into our beautiful Dende products, and when people apply them, you get the same efficacy, right?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the first thing.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: We spent a lot of money and time and we have very talented people here that have to take these new ingredients, specifically naringenin, and work out how does it formulate, right?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the first thing.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: The second pillar which we live by by Dende is that the formulation has to be peak performance.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so in all of our formulations, naringenin is used at that specific concentration.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's not like we're stripping back formulations, it's just we use each ingredient at the clinically tested amount to deliver the ultimate response to the consumer.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just a different way of thinking about it.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if you've tried our lines, there's lots of different formulation textures and formats.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: My favorite is the barrier-building uh moisture cream, but um, you know, they're all used, every ingredient is specific, and and that's a very different way of formulating, it's a very scientific way of formulating.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so always matching the best of science with the best of consumer perception and how they love the formulation.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when those two meet in the middle, you can really create something pretty special.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and I really like what you said about concentrations.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I literally, I I kid you not, since the day I started this podcast, I've been preaching about this idea of like there's this dose response thing that happens in the body.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and it's like, you know, you talk about this stuff and I feel like it falls on deaf ears many times, but it's very, very real.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what you said was so key because the fact that it's great that you have this great anti-inflammatory molecule, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: But then if you if you don't put it in the right formula, if you don't have the right concentrations, you're not gonna be able to really see that benefit we all want to see, you know, in our skincare like routine.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I think that's such an important message to get out to consumers because I kid you not, every time I see like a 20% vitamin C, I like bang my head against the wall because it's like inflammation is we're inducing inflammation at this point, you know.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's insane.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's where like you're this is a very, very hot topic, you know, and uh the inflammator aging topic, because it's not even so much anymore about okay, we have this like baseline inflammation as consumers that we want to tackle because it changes with age and all these different parameters.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not even just that.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's we've induced all this inflammation that now we need to manage, you know, and g bring our skin back to this base level of like being healthy.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's you know, that's truly where I feel like things like this are remarkable because they are bridging a gap, you know, when it comes to truly like dermatological level care that you receive and like really what is a dermatologist always trying to do is trying to bring your skin back to its healthy, you know, baseline.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, exactly.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like if you go on uh dundee.com to the website, you'll see the scientific data showing that with the specific precision response of a dose of naring gening, you get back to that unaltered state, right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's super important.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, another good example, which I'm sure you've gone into before, but it's like niacinamide, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, niacinamide has its benefits.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, we love niacinamide, it's a great ingredient.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: We use it in our products because it's effective for oil control and reducing the appearance of pores, but that's at a very specific concentration, right?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And what you've seen is the formulators have typically gone really high on at niacinamide.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's led to uh skin sensitization issues, and now populations have skin sensitization issues.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's stuff like that where we are trying to use the best ingredients at the right concentration to deliver an ultimate consumer experience.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the innovation is on the ingredient, the naringen, the one that's our hero, and it's the combination of all these beautiful things together that deliver a better consumer experience.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not we're gonna take it to 20%, like you said.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's a different way of thinking.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the way we think is changing because now, over the last few years, people have started getting new ingredients.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: They can be more creative, they can be more flexible.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: But prior to this biotech revolution, everyone had the same ingredients.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the thing you're gonna do?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: You just gotta go for higher concentrations to stand out, and that that's a really negative thing.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think the niacinamide uh you know issue is also just like the vitamin C, where it's like people are drinking, what, like 10-15% niacinamide serums and stuff, and they were putting that all over, and that's just not, I mean, I think it's above five percent, you're not even doing anything at that point.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we talked about the dose response.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what it is.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, dose response is such a pharmaceutical, it's rooted in pharmaceutical science dose response.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's how we calculate and see the effect of a drug on a human, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, we take those same lessons as the pharmaceutical companies on how we find ingredients, create them, and how we create the formulations.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it always goes back to that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Show me clinically that narogen in at this concentration is better against the placebo, right?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and and it always goes back to that.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and Dende will never release a formulation that doesn't have that level of clinical testing and backing and science rooted from within.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I love that.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm so glad that you're advocating for that because I think right now the the current landscape, or at least how I see skincare, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this industry, I don't feel like consumers should have to settle at this point, you know.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like if you're buying a product and you know, it doesn't even matter what you're paying, it's more so you're buying a product, you should be able to expect like clinical level results.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or like at least the testing is done, you know.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, people should be able to stand with that, you know, very firmly and say, no, this is actually something I use for my health, you know, it's not just a beauty product.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think that's huge.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you you're you know, you're advocating and the brand stands for that because I I think a lot of people need to get on this bandwagon of like, you know, hey, if you don't have the clinical trials yet, get them, you know.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't done it, you gotta do it.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's uh it's simple.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: But and I think the you know, the the other thing is the unique thing about Dundee, it's backed by 80 scientists, right?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can't name another brand that is backed by that many scientists working on creating the next best thing.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how we're able to confidently speak about the science.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we're able to confidently go after very specific claims.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're right, like if I walk into a Sephora and Alta and turn over another formulation that is exactly the same, I you know, you said you're gonna bang your head against the wall.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I bang my head against the wall in that situation, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think we can both agree that, you know, in in five to ten years' time, when we look out to the formulations on the market, we hope Dende has led the charge.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like all formulations are now dermatology backed.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: They use cutting-edge ingredients with clinically tested products, not just ingredients.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and if that happens, I think we've done our job correctly.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: We we've really helped merge the beauty wellness scenes together with like pharmaceutical great products, but just in beauty.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to actually kind of pick your brain a little bit because I think that this topic, I mean, it's very interesting to me when I look at I mean, I know the word anti-aging is kind of going out of style, which I'm glad to see, but at the same time, it is a topic, right?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So when I look at anti-aging and what the you know, what the results are that we're looking for, obviously it's like reduction in, you know, the appearance of wrinkles, sagging on the skin, like these kind of things, right?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is your opinion on things like like, you know, for example, like I think we focus very heavily on moisturization.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I feel like every other product in this industry is focused on here's a humectant, you know what I mean?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: L slather this on and you're gonna look better.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I just want to get your opinion because you have you have such a wide lens that you're looking at this industry with, like, when it comes to truly anti-aging, like what do you think consumers should be focusing on and thinking about um when we're approaching, you know, these solutions?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I look it's a really interesting thing to look at from scientifically.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if I always go back to what our VP of product and ingredient innovation, who's a skincare scientist, says, like skin cells turn over every 28 days.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that's the first basis, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so people saying that you're getting improvements after one week, it's a total load of rubbish, right?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like the level of expectation for anti-aging truly is a longer term aspect of beauty.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not, you know, immediate results, it never will be with topical.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, injectables, that's what that's for, right?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in terms of anti-aging, it's always been finalized, road holes, hydration, skin barrier.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and they've always gone after ingredients which hit all of them.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now, our approach is a bit different.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if um, if I have, you know, if I go to the doctors and I say I have a specific thing I want to solve, they don't say just take 20% aspirin, right?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's very specific molecules for very specific things.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that gives our formulators the chance to start incorporating different ingredients to hit specific consumer needs.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what Dende is really known for, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like those scientifically backed, very specific products.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I think about moisturization or longevity or barrier repair, I think, you know, I look at Naringen as a good example that, that in a double-blind clinical study, when narongenin was given to a group and the other half received a placebo, like this is how it should be done.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: 100% showed an improvement in elasticity, 100% showed an improvement in skin moisturization.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was 97 showed an improvement in deep wrinkles.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the next topic, yeah, and here's the next topic we're probably gonna have to discuss, which is what is a clinical trial, right?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or a clinical test.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And there are very few brands which do it the way we do it, which is we have that Vizier camera, and it's very quantitative.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't consumer perception of I think my skin feels more hydrated or I think it feels more elastic.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, we have quantifiable data done in a placebo double blind clinical test.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's where the industry is going.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And like when I think about anti-aging, I think about many of these unique aspects rolled up into one claim.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's typically because skin science has come along so far in the last 10 years that before it was anti-aging equals wrinkle, right?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And now when we talk about the stuff like inflammation, it's a lot more complex.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Skin science is now at the level of pharmaceutical science.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: When we look at new ingredients, we look at 30,000 genes in keratinocytes that the skin cells, which are turned off and turned off.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: We've looked at 200 new pathways for anti-aging.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we're really at the beginning of what we're doing.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if if those who follow Dende and get excited by Dende, obviously like I do, you know, that's where the newest ingredients for specific aspects of inflammation and anti-aging will come through quickly.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's where you're able to really capitalize on science, push it into the brand very quickly, create beautiful formulations, and let the consumers start to pick.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, I want epidermal barrier repair, I want inflammation, I want longevity.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do I need to make my lifestyle better?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of like you know, the thesis of what we work from.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you pointed all this out.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that, because I think that these topics like longevity and like I'm glad you brought up longevity specifically because what we're talking, we were talking about inflammation, right?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like a minute ago.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's where I feel like there's so much understanding that can happen here with the ideas that all of these factors are really talking about inflammation at the end of the day.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's really no way to get around inflammation.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like and I think that's the really fundamental is that, you know, yeah, it's not just about the fact that you saw this like 15 time, you know, reduction in IELTS, it's more so about the fact that what does that mean for anti-aging?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like if you're using a product that's reducing your inflammatory response, right?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you're doing it for a prolonged period of time, you're not gonna age the same that you would normally.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's longevity, you know, that's basically, you know.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's you you raise a really good point, is that previously in the industry, it's always about going after the end cause.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what Dende really stands for and kind of stands out for me is we said, well, look, that's the end result.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: How do we stop or control or allow people to impact the end result?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we've got to find out what the root cause is.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you know, when you have a disease and you go to the doctor, they don't say, okay, well, you know, you can't walk anymore, so we're gonna give you a wheelchair.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: They say, okay, let's find out how that happened, right?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And what was the root cause?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same mentality, and it doesn't matter what the consumer need is will be, you know, developing over the next few years or bringing forward through Dundee, it always is the mentality of what is the root cause?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: How can we affect the root cause to allow people to have better lives?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And like, that's again, it's just a different way of thinking.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's possible when you have a huge science team and really great people on a technical basis, married to some of the best uh brand builders.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: That is like the special source of what this brand is.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's everyone working together across technical brand building, it's across graphics, it's across e-commerce, it's everyone understanding we're going after root cause and everyone is on the same boat.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is really hard to replicate.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And to date, I don't know of any other brand that has that level of like synergy across the entire stack.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's unique.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it is.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that, and also, you know, I mean, hats off to your team because marketing science is a very difficult thing to do.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's hard sometimes because there's a huge gap.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a huge gap between the understanding, and I think that this is such a cutting-edge subject, right?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Inflammation and and really understanding what that means for us on a daily level, that it it can be difficult.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I I love what you guys are doing, and I you know, I really applaud you, Josh, for having this mindset of, you know, let's get to the root cause because that's medicine at the end of the day.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's the whole idea of science and medicine and and biotech and everything we all love and we love to see innovations in.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the fundamental.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we don't even have companies that do that and they're claiming that they can fix your, you know, anything, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta really think as a consumer like what you're buying at that point.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and we have to be really tightly controlled on what we will put into Dende.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we we talked about exosomes at the start.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: We we as a company have not yet tested an exosome where we believe in the preclinical or clinical data, right?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I don't buy it.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really like it.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: See, we can talk about this.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, like we've we've tested pretty much most of them.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're still testing some others, but um, it turns out that you know, once exosomes are transported, they they break, right?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or or they're not in contact and they don't have the site.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's again, it's it's something that we're always having to control ourselves with is you know, exosomes, it's a marketing term, and everyone loves it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's still a marketing term, but um, you won't see exosomes in Dende products.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you do, you can be guaranteed and sure that it's gone through years of scientific validation.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: We've ensured that it's present in the formulation when it arrives at your door, and we're publishing the clinicals at Dende.com or wherever it is, right?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the level of scientific control and innovation that needed to push it along.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you get into these cycles of people just being really excited about marketing terms, brands being born on it, and then they find out it doesn't work and they die.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, the thing we love about Dende is it's set up for long-term success.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't us going after marketing terms, this is us pushing science to the forefront because we firmly believe that over the next five to ten years, dermatology-backed products with cutting-edge science and clinical testing will be the only products available on market because consumers are super smart.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that's our thesis.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: We'll stick to it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, we brought up exosome, so I had to say something.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I just it was important.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm so glad you did, and I'm so glad you brought that up because honestly, and I I do want this to be out there for consumers.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is that I personally I don't believe in exome the exosome technology that exists right now that people are claiming to be delivery mechanisms for audience is absolute bullshit for everyone listening to the case.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it's like I'm glad we can use that word, it is complete crap.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is it's complete crap, and uh and the reasoning is is there's no true signaling.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's an exosome is basically released out of a cell as waste, it's a waste product.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, yeah, it's gonna act like a waste product at the end of the day, you know what I mean?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna go targeting some exact like intracellular you know area or whatever.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna do that.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yeah, and they're like, you know, lots lots of them use it at 20, right?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: In formulation.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: You put anything in a formulation 20 percent, it's gonna have some sort of effect.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what effect, it's not specific, but you know, this is you know, and this is what when the team is designing products, when Dende is bringing forward products, and you'll see new products coming out at the end of this year, into next year, where you know, they are really exciting new innovations, but these innovations are not taken lightly, they are very rigorous attacks because it's what we stand for.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: We are trying to be the pinpoint in the industry that pushes it forward, and so we have to take the responsibility on that.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And exosomes drive me absolutely nuts.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I swear.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad, I'm glad that you're you know, you're not here to put more like clutter out here.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what makes something to me.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just feel like people get on board with these big and you know, the thing is, guys, like when you work in any like and this is a big thing, when you work in any scientific like wet lab, anything like that, you start to realize like who makes these kind of products and like the big companies that make them and and why they make them.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a very there's specific uses of certain, you know, components, something like an exosome, right?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: But you're not supposed to then like mass apply this to like you know over-the-counter products and pretend like it's doing something.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just it's like whole conversation, you know, that we could have.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I think me and you could have a whole episode on I think we could what's included in skincare products that no one that we know don't work, right?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a whole thing, and it's it's like part of the part of something we have to solve.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, you've seen the products, I think you've seen the clinicals.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're proud on it.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's not like we're releasing something very, very quick.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this taken, you know, debut the parent company's been around for over six years now, and like that's how long true scientific innovation takes to get through to consumers uh and the households.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's just the the bottom line.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm I'm really you know happy to see you guys are doing it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And hats off to you for you know, like pushing this narrative forward of science first always.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: If anybody has you know listening and hasn't checked out Dende yet, we're gonna be linking all of the links to the brand in the show notes.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So please go check out the brand and let us know what you think about inflammatory.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: But Josh, thank you so much for your time.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so amazing to chat with you.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've I've had a lot of fun here.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think we vibe on the same issues in the world.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we gotta do this again.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta bug you again when you're free because we gotta have a part two, you know.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I will say, um, you know, keep an eye on the space and look for uh look for what we're doing later on this year.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think there's gonna be something coming out from Dundee that's gonna get you very excited and it can be a whole nother conversation.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate you.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the invite today, and it's been great to have a just a good, open, honest conversation about science and beauty.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, let's hope we get back here in 10 years' time and we can look at what's being sold, and we've done good.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, everybody keep an eye out for the new release.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, whatever's coming.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you so much.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 27:43
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