Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / John Morris | The Christian Reeve Podcast #242

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John Morris | The Christian Reeve Podcast #242 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
• 0:03
  Podcast. As always, before we get into
• 0:06
  today's show, make sure to leave us a review on Pod Chaser, on
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  liked this, please just put it there.
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  get somewhere with this show. In addition, if you'd like to
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  background help at all, as you many of you know.
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  But for those who don't, I do this all myself.
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  There's a lot of work as anyone with a podcast knows.
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  But yeah, there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
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  If you want to help me and support me and hopefully taking
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  this show even further because I mean we've gotten 3 1/2 years,
• 1:03
  240 plus episodes at this point, looking to grow and move into
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  next year and make the show even bigger and better than it
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  currently is. If you want to help us in doing
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  that, subscribe on patreonpatreon.com/christian
• 1:19
  Reeve. And as always, all the links
• 1:22
  will be in the description below.
• 1:25
  Now, today's guest, he's an artist, author, and I want to
• 1:30
  get this right as mental and spiritual health mentor.
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  His name is John Morris. Welcome to the show.
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  How you doing man? I'm doing really good,
• 1:39
  Christian. Thank you so much for having me.
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  How are you doing? Oh, I'm doing, I'm doing.
• 1:42
  Well, man. It's it's always fun when I've
• 1:44
  got a guest where I've done the research and I'm like, man, I
• 1:47
  don't even know where to start. I mean, I'd say I say that on
• 1:50
  every on every show because every guest is just incredible.
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  Like, I mean, I mean, I have to say through through doing this
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  podcast over the years, it's made me a better
• 2:01
  conversationist. It's made me pay attention more
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  to just the way people are. Do you know what I mean?
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  Like it's every single person is totally different.
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  Every show feels different. And the weird thing about this
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  show is at one point it was like my main focus of things I was
• 2:18
  doing. Now it's, I wouldn't say it's my
• 2:20
  main focus anymore, but it's a thing that I love to do and I
• 2:23
  obviously I want it to succeed. But acting's the dream.
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  That's the thing I'm I'm trying to do with my life.
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  But it's funny how everything connects.
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  And I'm sure you've found this in your life too.
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  Like everything that you do has a way of linking together.
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  And I think with podcasting, the biggest thing it's really given
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  me has just been like being able to talk.
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  Yeah. And I've sort of refined this
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  with live streams, but it's, I don't know, there's something to
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  that. And, you know, you're an artist
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  and an author. Like, I feel like that's another
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  way of communicating with people in a in a slightly different
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  manner. Let's just speak on that for a
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  second. Like the art of communication?
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  Like what have you learnt over the years in that film?
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  Absolutely. I mean one of the things because
• 3:08
  for years we we did our own podcast, the Mind, Body and Soul
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  Podcast, which then developed into the Mind, Body and Soul
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  Show with the Los Angeles Tribune, you know, and and
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  that's always the thing. It's like if you can talk, if
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  you can write and if you can think as they say, you're
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  deadly. The problem is, a lot of people
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  nowadays have lost that communication skill.
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  So that really can set you apart massively if you know how to
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  talk and obviously as we've talked a little bit before, I
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  learnt how to, as they say, cut promos to talk to engage people
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  through wrestling, you know. And again, this is again a
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  really important lesson to kick off with is listen more than
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  what you speak and be observant, exactly as you were saying right
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  at the start of the show. Because I think at a lot of
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  time, and especially in the business world, people want it
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  to be all me, me, me, me, me. They forget it's very little
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  about you. You can do amazing things, you
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  can, you know, whatever. But it's ultimately about the
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  people that you serve or that you work for, or the OR your
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  customers or whoever it might be.
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  And you have to be able to communicate with them on
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  whatever level that they're on. And if you can have a
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  conversation just by purely being interested in the work
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  that a doctor does, the work that a social worker does, the
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  work that a wrestler does, the work that fill in the blank, you
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  will get so much further than a person that's just, hey, I'm
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  John Morris, I'm this author, I'm this artist.
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  Well, that's good, You know, it sounds fine, but eventually it
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  gets kind of boring. Whereas I'd rather just like,
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  you know. I put the paintings out there.
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  I'm just like, hey guys, look at what I've done these days.
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  My captions are like 1 lines, you know, because literally now
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  people want to write paragraph after paragraph after paragraph
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  and you're like, nobody reads it, Nobody cares.
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  They literally want that one thing.
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  The other day, it was a Maine Coon painting that I'd finished
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  and it was literally like, hey guys, look at what I've been up
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  to. Thousands of likes, thousands of
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  thousands of liked. And it's not that difficult when
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  you understand the art of communication.
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  And you understand it's it is all about you.
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  But at the same point, it's not all about you.
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  It's when you learn it's all about you, that it's not about
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  you, that you can actually go to serving other people, if that
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  makes sense. Yeah, no, I get it.
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  I mean, I think that it depends on your audience as well.
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  Like, one thing I've learned through doing content creation
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  is that, you know, you've got different types of people
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  watching and listening to you. You've got people who are
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  committed core. I mean if you're listening to
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  this show right now, chances are you've been following me for
• 5:43
  some time now or you know, you've been a fan of the long
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  form content that I've been doing.
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  And you know, for instance, I've had people criticize me about my
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  sort of approach to TikTok as an example.
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  You know, being that it's a long, it's a short form content
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  platform and I'm doing long form content in the form of these
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  live streams, right. But that's the thing, I'm doing
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  something that's unique in the sense that I'm going against
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  what the the kind of trend is and that makes you stand out
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  one. Yeah, granted, I, I haven't been
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  like hugely successful, but like I have been able to effectively
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  encourage people to come over from that platform and say join
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  a community, check out a podcast.
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  Like it slowly works but on a small scale, right?
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  You got something you want to say go for.
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  It I was just going to say there, Christian, but further in
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  that a lot of people who will criticise you.
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  And who have criticized me over the past two decades, You know,
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  again, I always come back to, I only ask your opinion if you've
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  done what I've got that I want to do longer than what I've done
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  it better than what I've done it, and you've been more
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  successful than what I, you know, than what I am presently.
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  You've got to try all these different things because a lot
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  of people that are giving this advice literally have never done
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  this stuff before. And then again, they're like,
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  oh, well, I would do this and I would do that.
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  It's like, why don't you then, you know, oh, I mean, I think it
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  depends because I I appreciate criticism for the most part
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  because it's like something different.
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  I think it, I think it depends on a lot of things.
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  It depends on tonality. I do think it where it comes
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  from is true. You're going to, you know, for
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  instance, if you've got like a successful podcaster, for
• 7:29
  argument's sake, and they're saying, well, this is what
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  worked for me, here's what you're overlooking, etcetera,
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  then that's going to feel like advice that's more weighted
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  versus someone who, let's say, doesn't have a show like I I
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  take that point. But I think all criticisms and
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  and feedback are still valuable in some shape or form, yeah.
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  Because it helps you then. And again, even if it's
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  something that 99% of the time you will discard and be like,
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  right, OK, that 1% can be the very thing that gets you from
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  Level A to level CDE, you know, whatever.
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  And it's just that small thing. So you know, again, you don't
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  want to discard everything for sure.
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  But when you get to a certain level, there's so much noise
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  coming at you that you're just literally like leave me alone.
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  There was, I can't remember where I heard this.
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  I don't know if it was a YouTube video I was watching or
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  somewhere maybe a podcast, I don't, I don't recall.
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  But basically what it the crux of what they were saying was
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  that like if you pay too much attention to everything in the
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  like, I think actually they were just saying don't look at the
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  comments and it's like I think I can see what they're trying to
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  say. I I like to take like a little
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  bit of an interest just have a a rough idea of of what the
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  general feel is. But I don't take like every
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  single comment to heart or anything if it's bad because the
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  whatever you do in life you're going to get criticized for it.
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  That's just life. But sometimes it can be valuable
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  sometimes it can be useful. I think it's it's also better
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  that you know you're getting some sort of a reaction as
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  opposed to none, because apathy is the worst that when just no
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  one cares, that's brutal. That's when you know your
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  business is in trouble. Because again, if they're booing
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  you, if they're cheering you, great.
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  Again, as you say, that feedback, that reaction, where
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  you're really in trouble is where there's no noise because
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  it means no one cares. And that's where you've really
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  got to rethink a lot of stuff. It's rough though.
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  I mean, I've tried many different things over the years
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  and and everything has failed and it's, I don't know at this
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  point, I just kind of do my own thing and I don't really expect
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  anything to come of it. But it's it's it's weird how
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  things work out. So if you take my show as an
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  example, right, I've had a lot of amazing guests on this show,
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  guests that I never thought I would have on this show.
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  People who've either reached out to me.
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  Like, for example, your agent reached out to me in order to
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  facilitate us getting together right?
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  And it's a good fit. And I knew it would be a good
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  fit, I could tell. But stuff like that is
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  interesting because my show doesn't have a lot of followers,
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  it doesn't have a big reach, it doesn't have any of these
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  things. So what then is the value?
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  What's What's the What's the reason why people want to come
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  on the show? What I think it's because I can
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  do a good interview. I can make a person look good by
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  asking the right questions, by engaging with them, right?
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  And that takes time. That.
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  I mean, I've been on other people's shows where some of
• 10:28
  them got it and did a good job. Others, you're left wondering,
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  why did I go on this show? You know, it's it is what it is.
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  It's it takes time. Like you mentioned before about
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  the idea of of working on your communication skills.
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  I think the same is true of like interviewing and and just
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  content creation in general. Like when I started doing live
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  streaming, same thing when I first started, I didn't know
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  what to talk about. Yeah, I don't know what to say.
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  Do now. I don't really.
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  I have like a rough idea in my head, but it's like there's no
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  structure necessarily to with a podcast you have to have
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  structure but with because it's a show but with the live stream,
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  I don't necessarily think you always have to, but you do have
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  to come into it with research, with preparation, with
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  enthusiasm and so on and so forth.
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  One thing I want to ask you because there's quite a few
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  things that I can touch on in in what we've already sort of
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  explored. But one thing I wanted to ask
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  you is why do you think that there's this issue now with
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  communication like, and I know the obvious answers and are
• 11:34
  going to be like, Oh well, technology and Oh well, you
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  know, But there's things that always seem to be the case, such
• 11:41
  as people listening in order to be able to just reply versus
• 11:49
  people truly listening to what someone's saying and investing
• 11:53
  in that conversation. Why do you think that's such an
• 11:56
  issue with people? I think in a lot of ways and and
• 11:59
  to a large part it is down to technology.
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  But I think it's also how, again you look at how people are
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  raised now. The society that we live in is
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  very, you know all about me. It's it's it's a Society of
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  extremes a lot in the West, particularly in you know I mean
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  I I've had the. You know, wonderful blessing to
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  see societies from the east, societies from the West, to see
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  all of the different things, how the sort of communicate one
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  another, the family dynamics, you know, whether or not it's a
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  case of, well, I'm just listening to you to provide my
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  answer or I'm really listening to you.
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  So as I can, you know, either learn something or just to
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  listen. And I think that's one of the
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  hardest things. I also think the way, and I'm
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  sure we'll touch on this as well with regards to books and things
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  and. I think the way we absorb
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  information now has changed drastically and and you know, I
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  think it will do. Continuing going forward, you
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  know, I I think a big part of it now and and again myself, I'm
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  like, OK, ask me what you're going to ask me or tell me what
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  you're going to tell me using as few words as possible because
• 13:08
  again, and that's not being horrible, that's not being mean.
• 13:11
  It's like when you're busy doing stuff when your attention span
• 13:14
  or when you're tired. The last thing you want is
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  somebody garbling, you know, 1,000,000 words at you when 15
• 13:21
  would have done. So it's like see what you're
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  going to say, you know, in as few words as possible.
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  But I think it's just changed as well because society has
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  evolved. If I can use that word, you
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  know, I think it's changed because of how.
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  You know, children and young folks communicate with each
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  other and then you've got to ask yourself, you know, I mean, you
• 13:42
  know, as a historian you look back, you know, just go back to
• 13:45
  the 1800s into the 1900s. They say the exact same thing
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  because, you know, you lost a lot of the old traditional
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  English that died out in the sort of mid beginning to middle
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  1800s. And then it was replaced by a
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  new way of speaking. And then by the 1900s,
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  everything became abbreviated. So you know, it just develops on
• 14:05
  and on and on and on. But I think more than anything
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  it's evolved. Technology does play a part of
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  it because the majority of time people are talking to you with a
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  phone in their hand, you know, which is one of my pet hates.
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  It's just like you're going to talk to me, talk to me if if
• 14:20
  not, you know, don't. But I think that's really all is
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  it all it is. But I think it's like
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  everything. It's magnified by the amount
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  people talk about it nowadays. And really fixate on well,
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  younger people are just this and younger people are just that.
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  It's like I don't think they are as much as what people sort of
• 14:40
  prescribe that they are. I think it's just different.
• 14:43
  What do you think they are the future of communication will
• 14:49
  like based on what you just outlined?
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  I think the future of communication will be AI to
• 14:54
  everything. It's like someone ask you a
• 14:56
  question, you know, ChatGPT away, you guys completely
• 14:59
  different there. I don't know.
• 15:02
  I mean, I think language is always a funny one.
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  So from that point alone, it's always going to progress.
• 15:09
  There's always going to be the latest words, the latest fad,
• 15:11
  the latest, you know, whatever it is.
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  I hope in some ways that. Because people are aware of it,
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  and maybe I'm giving humanity too much credit here, but
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  because they're aware of it, that again, they'll they'll
• 15:25
  start to try and, you know, reconnect the family dynamic.
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  I would love to see that happening more and more that
• 15:32
  people actually communicate with each other rather than, well,
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  you know, my, my friend is on, you know, whatever social media
• 15:39
  platform it is, I've got to communicate with them.
• 15:42
  And you're thinking, I'm here right now.
• 15:44
  You know, talk to me. I think.
• 15:46
  I think it is going to be massively different for sure.
• 15:49
  You know one thing I find really interesting as well, and it's a
• 15:51
  little bit of a deviation from communication for a SEC.
• 15:55
  But when you actively take yourself away from technology
• 16:01
  and you embrace something which by all intents and purposes is
• 16:06
  kind of classic behaviour, if you like.
• 16:08
  So for example, I was reading a book on acting earlier for a
• 16:13
  couple of hours and just, you know, learning and and doing
• 16:15
  that and but I realised, you know, I was sitting there and
• 16:22
  there was no technology around me.
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  I was just sitting there embracing that, enjoying that
• 16:27
  experience. And like don't get me wrong,
• 16:29
  people read all the time. Of course it's not like it's
• 16:31
  died out or something. But as you mentioned before, the
• 16:34
  way that we interpret and collect and learn in, you know,
• 16:39
  information has changed. And you know, like, I don't
• 16:43
  know, I feel like we need to get away from these things, we need
• 16:48
  these experiences, We need to remember what it means to be
• 16:50
  human In, in a nutshell, you know, like technology can be
• 16:55
  great and is brilliant. I mean, right now it's
• 16:57
  connecting us in different parts of the country, but at the same
• 17:01
  time, it's also detrimental when people get lost in it.
• 17:09
  Like earlier I was scrolling a little bit through Tiktok and I
• 17:12
  realised, oh, this is bad. Like it's, do you know what I
• 17:15
  mean? Because it's it's true what they
• 17:17
  say. It does kind of rot your brain.
• 17:19
  It doesn't give you anything. It gives you quick hits, quick
• 17:25
  gratification. I mean, sure, but that's not
• 17:28
  what life is. Life is gradual.
• 17:30
  Life takes time. Things take time to breathe and
• 17:34
  evolve. You know, like you look at
• 17:36
  yourself, you are a combination of experiences and that takes
• 17:41
  time to breathe and and to even, for instance, just learning
• 17:46
  about who you are and what you have to contribute.
• 17:49
  You know, like when we look at your life and we're going to get
• 17:52
  into a lot of different things. What I see is a person who has
• 17:55
  faced a lot of challenges throughout their life.
• 17:58
  And that's kind of built and built and built and built to the
• 18:01
  person that's sitting here in front of me today.
• 18:03
  It's a person who it tells to me.
• 18:07
  It tells the story of a person who has never given up and never
• 18:10
  kind of seen challenges, challenges as something that is
• 18:15
  going to stop me. It's it's actually, how am I
• 18:18
  going to overcome these things? How am I going to use these
• 18:23
  setbacks and fall on my feet and and you know re announce myself
• 18:29
  For example, let's start with you being an amateur wrestler.
• 18:33
  I love wrestling as much as you do and we've discussed this off
• 18:37
  air but I want to sort of explore it.
• 18:39
  So you used to be an amateur wrestler.
• 18:40
  You mentioned that earlier you had this dream of pursuing
• 18:43
  professional wrestling and you mentioned that it was it was it
• 18:48
  was a short lived dream unfortunately.
• 18:50
  But tell us more about this time in your life and what you
• 18:54
  learned from that in a nutshell. It was, it was really fantastic.
• 18:59
  I mean, you know, as we talked about little bit a while ago,
• 19:05
  Eric Bischoff and I and his wife and my wife, we went out to
• 19:09
  dinner, was super, super cool and we got talking about all of
• 19:12
  these different things and again, how everything is
• 19:14
  connected. So I got into wrestling by and
• 19:18
  through my granddad, he was sitting there watching it one
• 19:20
  day. I can still see it as clear as
• 19:22
  day, you know, 30 odd years later.
• 19:25
  You know, standing by his armchair, I think it was Summer
• 19:27
  Slam 88 that he had on. I'm standing there watching it
• 19:30
  and, you know, I fell in love with it there.
• 19:32
  And then it was, you know, to a creative mind and especially a
• 19:35
  child of, you know, five years old or whatever I was, you know,
• 19:38
  it was the colour. It was the way they talked.
• 19:41
  It was the way they carried themselves.
• 19:42
  I mean, I was hooked, you know, to, you know, And again,
• 19:46
  throughout my life I've always had that addictive tendency that
• 19:49
  has both worked very, very well and not so well in other areas,
• 19:53
  but. That's been one of the biggest
• 19:55
  driving forces in doing this. Like the other day, my wife and
• 19:59
  I celebrated our 10th anniversary and we,
• 20:01
  congratulations. Thank you very much.
• 20:04
  But again, you know, we were talking about one of that, you
• 20:06
  know, one of those things. It's like if I had to describe
• 20:08
  in one word what would it be. And for her, it's always been
• 20:12
  disciplined. And it's again, in the words of
• 20:14
  Poirot, it's both my blessing and my curse.
• 20:18
  But I got into it and I found very quickly that I really
• 20:21
  enjoyed it. I enjoyed the contacts.
• 20:22
  I enjoyed the physicality. You know, I found that I was
• 20:25
  super supple in my body and I could, I had amazing stamina.
• 20:30
  So literally I could go, go, go, go, go.
• 20:32
  So I mean, sort of, you know, from the ages of five, right the
• 20:36
  way through to probably 17. There wasn't a time that I can
• 20:40
  remember that I wasn't wrestling in some form or other, whether
• 20:43
  it was just a home or school or a buddy's house or again in an
• 20:47
  MMA sort of an environment, which was super cool.
• 20:51
  And then when you get into grappling and all the other
• 20:53
  things that go along with that, I mean it's it's just, it's it's
• 20:57
  so much fun. It's a release.
• 20:58
  It's a connection even to other people that I've never had
• 21:03
  before. I I lived a very, very insular
• 21:05
  life as a child, very, very almost isolated away from other
• 21:10
  people after school. And, you know, like anything, I
• 21:14
  mean, you pick up the fears that your parents have a lot of the
• 21:17
  time. So it was really, it was just a
• 21:21
  really exciting way to express myself, to, you know, be
• 21:24
  energetic, to burn off steam, to do crazy stuff, the adrenaline,
• 21:28
  all that kind of stuff. And and I thoroughly, thoroughly
• 21:31
  loved it. But what was the biggest lesson
• 21:34
  that you took from professional wrestling?
• 21:39
  The one, I suppose, that I apply most of all to my life now as a
• 21:46
  couple? That I mean certainly how to
• 21:47
  talk that, that's a big one. You know, again, if you can get
• 21:51
  a person's attention either by being very, very quiet and very
• 21:56
  slow or if you're really energetic and all of a sudden
• 21:59
  you know you and you know how to turn and you know that dial up
• 22:03
  and everything, it's one of the best things.
• 22:05
  And again, they talk about it a lot of the time that it's
• 22:08
  something you can't teach. I think a lot of the time if I
• 22:11
  was, if I was to groom, don't let me change that because
• 22:14
  that's probably going to sound really wrong.
• 22:16
  But if I was to develop, you know, a a, you know, clone of
• 22:19
  myself as a child, I would say, right, OK, I want you to do
• 22:23
  this, this and this, you know. And I have to clarify that
• 22:26
  because in this day and age people will take it the wrong
• 22:28
  way. But literally, I would sit down
• 22:30
  and say, right, listen to some wrestling interviews, some
• 22:34
  really good talkers, not what we have now, but what we have then.
• 22:38
  But also how to conduct yourself in a business, you know, point
• 22:42
  of view, stand out, be different.
• 22:44
  I mean, you can tell by the way that I'm dressed, the background
• 22:46
  that I've got when we do shows. And I was Laurie Bischoff's
• 22:50
  producer for a long time on her show.
• 22:52
  And that was always one of the things the guest would come on
• 22:54
  as like, oh, is he, is he staying for the interview as
• 22:56
  well? Because he looks really
• 22:57
  engaging. But I would be able then to have
• 23:00
  people like Mike Barnes from Cobra Kai in Karate Kid 3, Sean
• 23:06
  Kanan on the show, you know, and other celebrities and other
• 23:09
  things just by my presence alone.
• 23:12
  Because again, you have to know right from the time that you
• 23:16
  step out onto a podium to speak to somebody how to get their
• 23:19
  attention. If everybody's in suits, I'm
• 23:21
  dressed like this. And as soon as I walk out there
• 23:24
  like, oh wow, this is different, You've already got their
• 23:28
  attention. I did a show recently on
• 23:31
  storytelling and. My guest also happened to be a
• 23:35
  wrestling fan as well. So we got into this and we got
• 23:37
  talking about as you mentioned like different types of
• 23:40
  wrestlers, the high energy ones like immediately when you said
• 23:42
  that I think of like Macho Man, Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan,
• 23:46
  etcetera. There was sort of a a ton of
• 23:49
  wrestlers at that time and the typical set up.
• 23:52
  Was you know wrestler mean Gene and they're just shouting down a
• 23:56
  camera and and but that's what that's what it required that's,
• 23:59
  you know you needed to give this idea of like I'm going to rip
• 24:02
  your head off my dog. You know, like that was how it
• 24:04
  sold it. But then you had a guy like Jake
• 24:06
  the Snake Roberts, who was slow, yeah.
• 24:10
  Brought you in the room, Yeah. Would you win, by the way, like
• 24:13
  that? That kind of, like intense
• 24:15
  feeling. But that's the whole thing.
• 24:17
  If you want to really learn psychology, like I have a sort
• 24:21
  of, maybe about three or four that I immediately think of when
• 24:26
  people say to me, you know, if if I was to listen to any
• 24:28
  wrestler, who would it be? First of all, Roddy Piper,
• 24:31
  Second of all, Jake, Snake Roberts.
• 24:33
  And then you'd probably go at Randy Savage because not only
• 24:38
  did he have the ability to communicate in a certain way,
• 24:42
  but also he could really change the tempo very, very well.
• 24:46
  So I also look at them as people because it wasn't just you.
• 24:50
  Well, let me tell you something, brother.
• 24:51
  You know, and you do that the same thing for 35 years.
• 24:54
  It was you listen to Roddy Piper promo, you listen to Jake the
• 24:57
  Snake Roberts promo. There is psychology in there
• 25:00
  that I'm going to get in your head before we ever get out in
• 25:04
  the ring and I'm going to do this, you know, And that's a
• 25:07
  very different way of doing it rather than shouting and
• 25:10
  screaming all the time. Yeah.
• 25:12
  And I think it's more effective if you if you have that kind of
• 25:15
  up and down and and even I I felt like with with someone like
• 25:19
  Hogan it was just kind of constant and you know, but that
• 25:23
  was him and that's fine. But I liked it more with with
• 25:26
  Savage where you know, there was ups and downs in terms of the
• 25:29
  cadence and the way that energy was predicted because it's it's
• 25:33
  it hits you more. You know when they're emotional
• 25:35
  about something. Like for example, the thing that
• 25:37
  comes to mind now is the Hard Times promo by Dusty Rhodes.
• 25:42
  This is like famous promo of where like you know, whenever
• 25:45
  there's a particular part that he's truly emotional because
• 25:49
  there was there's some reality in that promo, he hits on that
• 25:52
  and he really pushes that. Like, you know, when he says
• 25:56
  like, that's our thoughts, like he really means that and like
• 25:59
  that. Really, because I think the
• 26:02
  thing with professional wrestling, for anyone that's not
• 26:05
  a fan who doesn't understand it, like why people don't like it.
• 26:07
  I I also why people like it. The reason is that it's
• 26:12
  emotional. It's fantastic storytelling that
• 26:16
  brings you in. Like I've heard it described as
• 26:18
  live action theatre. And I think that's a really
• 26:20
  great example of what it is because you know, there are
• 26:24
  these compelling storylines that just kind of draw you in and and
• 26:28
  evoke certain emotions. And really just kind of, it's
• 26:33
  just it's so there's so many ways to describe professional
• 26:37
  wrestling, from the psychology of it, the emotions, the the
• 26:42
  actual moves themselves. Like everything.
• 26:44
  When it's when it's done well, it's it transcends storytelling.
• 26:49
  It's incredible. One of the things I want to
• 26:51
  really add to that for anybody that's listening, that wants to
• 26:54
  know again about storytelling and things, whether you're in
• 26:56
  business, whatever you are doing, this is really important.
• 27:00
  You have to care and you have to believe what you do.
• 27:04
  That's one of the biggest things I think that I see now and again
• 27:07
  Al Snow and I have chatted about this not in some years but you
• 27:10
  know, super, super cool, you know, literally the the the art
• 27:15
  of storytelling succeeds because I believe what I'm telling you.
• 27:21
  So if I tell you, for example, that you know I'm a time
• 27:24
  travelling artist, by the end of it I will have you convinced
• 27:28
  because of the level of research that I am willing to do on such
• 27:32
  a project. You know if if I'm telling you
• 27:35
  that this is the best painting that I have ever painted and
• 27:38
  This is why you need to buy limited edition prints, I'm not
• 27:42
  going to do that with every single painting because then it
• 27:45
  just means nothing. So you have to really
• 27:48
  understand, you know and you have to believe everything you
• 27:51
  do. The problem that I see a lot of
• 27:53
  time with folks on TikTok on podcasts, on, on a lot of other
• 27:56
  things is people are just feeding me a yarn and I can you
• 28:00
  know, again that's again a blessing occurs.
• 28:02
  I see through people very, very quickly.
• 28:05
  Again, part of psychology, you know is that you can read people
• 28:08
  well, you read eyes, you read emotional leakage, you read how
• 28:11
  they sit the body language etcetera, etcetera.
• 28:14
  But you also get a feeling of a person as well, and that is one
• 28:17
  of the things that it's again, you know when a person's telling
• 28:21
  you the truth, and you know when a person is just saying stuff
• 28:23
  off a script, you have to believe.
• 28:26
  If you're if you are the best Baker in the world, you have to
• 28:29
  believe it. If you're the best author in the
• 28:31
  world, you have to believe it. How do people succeed?
• 28:34
  Because they believe this stuff? You know it.
• 28:37
  It. That's what it comes down to A
• 28:39
  lot of the time is your core in a belief in how you drive that
• 28:42
  forward over a period of years? YouTube's been doing this thing
• 28:47
  lately where they push small time creators, right?
• 28:50
  And so now you get all these random channels that have got
• 28:54
  like a couple of 100 followers, right?
• 28:56
  But it's brilliant because you get pushed videos that you
• 28:59
  wouldn't normally see and it's an opportunity to discover
• 29:02
  people. Why am I bringing this up?
• 29:03
  Well, there was a guy that I saw the other day, he's quite a
• 29:06
  young lad. He's probably like 19 or
• 29:08
  something. He's blessed him.
• 29:09
  He's in his front room, he's dressed up in a suit and he's
• 29:12
  trying to do a satirical piece. And I was thinking a lot of the
• 29:16
  things that you're talking about right now.
• 29:18
  I was thinking, OK there, there, and there's a lot of work that
• 29:22
  needs to be done here. Clearly he's a novice with this,
• 29:24
  but I could see the potential. I could see with a little bit
• 29:29
  of. I was tempted to leave a comment
• 29:30
  but I decided against it in the end.
• 29:32
  But because I feel like he's going to be all right, He'll get
• 29:35
  this eventually, but it's like sometimes people don't.
• 29:40
  Often actually people don't realise their potential.
• 29:44
  They don't realise just how important, as you said, it is to
• 29:48
  believe in what you do in every word that you say.
• 29:51
  Like the other day I was feeling very impassioned and I was doing
• 29:55
  this live stream and I was trying to get people to believe
• 29:57
  in themselves and I was motivating.
• 29:59
  But it it came from a sense of frustration.
• 30:02
  It came from my own experiences and life of of like having not
• 30:06
  believed in myself and what that looks like and what that feels
• 30:09
  like and it's like. No one's going to come into your
• 30:13
  life and save you and make you believe in yourself.
• 30:16
  Some people might push you, they might say the right thing at the
• 30:19
  right time when you really needed to hear it, but
• 30:22
  ultimately it's like a realisation that has to in your
• 30:24
  mind and you just realise and you're like, oh, it all makes
• 30:28
  sense now. Like, right now I know that this
• 30:31
  show is brilliant, I know it is. And that's that might sound like
• 30:35
  an egotistical thing to say. That might sound like, oh, he
• 30:38
  thinks a lot of himself. Do you know what?
• 30:39
  I do think a lot of this show, because I know how much time and
• 30:42
  effort I pour into it, and I know that every time I do this
• 30:46
  show, I love talking with my guest and learning about my
• 30:51
  guest and seeing a different person's perspective story,
• 30:55
  everything. I love all of that, and I love
• 30:59
  how it makes me feel each and every time.
• 31:01
  You don't know how the show's going to go.
• 31:03
  You know, I've got a bunch of notes here.
• 31:05
  I might not even look at those. I probably will.
• 31:07
  But, you know, it's like it's, it's, it's brilliant how every
• 31:12
  single time it's a little bit different.
• 31:14
  But you you really touched on something really important
• 31:19
  there. This idea that like, if you
• 31:20
  don't believe in the thing that you're doing, if you're just
• 31:22
  trying to kind of whatever, like, oh, I just want to make a
• 31:25
  load of money with this, oh, I just want this to, you know,
• 31:30
  just get a load of views. Like you can do that.
• 31:33
  But there's no long term for that thing.
• 31:36
  There's no future. If you make a lot of money,
• 31:39
  you've got to be able and sure that you can manage that amount
• 31:42
  of money because that's what a lot of people don't think about.
• 31:45
  It's like, well, I and I saw someone say this the other day,
• 31:47
  I want to be a billionaire. And again, it's like OK.
• 31:51
  So freaking bad. Yeah, But but it's like, do you
• 31:55
  do you really think you're equipped to be a billionaire?
• 31:58
  And and also, are you willing to do the level of work or
• 32:02
  investment or study that it takes to be billionaire?
• 32:04
  That right there, that's the biggest point you can take from
• 32:08
  it, whether it's being a professional wrestler, an
• 32:11
  author, a writer, a podcaster. Are you willing to put in the
• 32:15
  effort, the work? Are you willing to do it when,
• 32:19
  like for example, I've done this show for 3 1/2 years over 240
• 32:23
  episodes. Every single time I've believed
• 32:26
  in an episode and put it out and thought this is going to bang
• 32:29
  and it doesn't. And I keep doing it.
• 32:31
  I keep doing it. I keep doing it.
• 32:33
  Why? Because I believe in it and I'm
• 32:34
  prepared to do the work necessary to get somewhere with
• 32:38
  it. And you have to just keep
• 32:40
  showing up. You know, you have to keep going
• 32:43
  when people would normally think about quitting and and just and
• 32:48
  giving up. You have to keep going, keep
• 32:49
  going, keep going and never stop going.
• 32:53
  But the whole thing as well, you know for for our new book series
• 32:56
  like there was there was some amazing things that happened to
• 32:58
  me in 2021 in particular and a lot of life changing stuff that
• 33:02
  happened and I started writing this brand new novel series
• 33:06
  which is actually about to be you know going off to agents and
• 33:10
  everything. And we're we're traditionally
• 33:12
  publishing this one because we literally we won't be able to
• 33:16
  handle you know self-publishing and what we're doing here.
• 33:18
  Plus, we want it in the stores and everything.
• 33:20
  I've done interviews before in Los Los Angeles.
• 33:23
  I've done them all over the States and everything, and it's
• 33:25
  been a blessing and a privilege to do.
• 33:27
  But when it comes to this, again, I get really serious and
• 33:31
  I think about it and they say, well, what's your goal with this
• 33:33
  simple to outsell JK Rowling? And they look at you like, what
• 33:37
  the hell are you thinking? And I was like, well, what's the
• 33:39
  alternative? It's like because if you get to
• 33:41
  that level and you're doing that, it means that you've got
• 33:45
  something very unique, very special.
• 33:47
  But again, to your point, and I do love the fact that you said,
• 33:52
  you know, I believe in it, I'm passionate about it.
• 33:54
  Everything else, especially when you know it, it doesn't see or
• 33:59
  it doesn't seem to be happening. You know, I saw a great quote by
• 34:02
  Marcus Aurelius the other day that what we do now echoes in
• 34:06
  eternity, You know, so and this is what you need to think about
• 34:09
  content creators. Everything you do now, content
• 34:13
  wise, is for tomorrow, is for next year, is for 10 years down
• 34:17
  the line because someone will see it.
• 34:19
  But I had no point when I was writing this book.
• 34:22
  Ever, ever, even throughout the series, through the artwork and
• 34:25
  everything else, never ever did I allow a single moment of doubt
• 34:29
  where I thought, this isn't going to be a best seller.
• 34:31
  Because that's part of the problem is people put energy
• 34:33
  into what they're doing and the moment that they think, well,
• 34:37
  this business ain't going to work out or this book ain't
• 34:38
  going to work out, you've put the own, you've put the nail in
• 34:41
  your own coffin. So you've got to train your mind
• 34:44
  and your focus and your belief to say, look, I I know this can
• 34:49
  work because there's been millions and billions of other
• 34:51
  people before me. That's done it, so why not you?
• 34:55
  This is where we differ. Because I'm only just kind of
• 35:02
  coming into this frequency, Yeah, because I haven't made it
• 35:10
  the other day when I did that live stream that I mentioned.
• 35:13
  I came off of it and I felt like in my head that what the thought
• 35:17
  that came to my mind was I'm operating on a different level,
• 35:19
  on a higher level now. But it's these realisations.
• 35:27
  Like in that book I was reading the other day, the acting book
• 35:29
  by John Abbott, it said all these different people.
• 35:32
  Did it differently. They did things their way.
• 35:35
  They dared to do the things that other people weren't willing to
• 35:38
  do. They dared to be different when
• 35:41
  other people called them crazy or delusional.
• 35:43
  You know, I've had everyone doubt me, but I have people that
• 35:49
  believe in me right now, and now I believe in me.
• 35:53
  But the great thing though, And. That's the difference.
• 35:54
  You see that you haven't made it.
• 35:56
  You are making it as we talk right now, you know, it only
• 36:01
  takes that you look at the body of work you've put together,
• 36:04
  look at the content. It only takes that one person to
• 36:07
  see it to be like, holy cow, look at who he's had his on his,
• 36:11
  you know, on his show. The problem for a lot of people
• 36:14
  is the the they do this big body of work and then they get to a
• 36:18
  point in year two, year three where they're like, man, this
• 36:20
  hasn't worked. I'm going to delete my YouTube
• 36:22
  channel. I'm going to delete my TikTok
• 36:24
  channel. So everything that they've done
• 36:26
  can't be seen anymore. I've still got stuff from a
• 36:29
  first YouTube channel that still gets comments to this day that
• 36:33
  I'm like, Oh my goodness, boy, I was very baby faced.
• 36:35
  I was very young when I was doing that stuff.
• 36:37
  But it still gets comments to this day.
• 36:39
  And I'm like, wow, thank you for that.
• 36:41
  So everything you do, you know it.
• 36:43
  That's what it comes down to. A lot of the time is, yes, it's
• 36:46
  your content, yes, it's your content creation, but it's also
• 36:49
  how you market and how you sell as well.
• 36:53
  This is the thing as well, like you mentioned there.
• 36:55
  Oh. Look at who you've had on the
• 36:56
  show. That doesn't mean anything.
• 36:59
  Yeah, I mean, to some people it does.
• 37:02
  But I've seen, I know, people who've had, like, celebrities on
• 37:05
  their show and they didn't go anywhere.
• 37:06
  Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
• 37:08
  Like, it's it doesn't lead. Like, as you said, it's, it's
• 37:12
  the way you market things. It's, I mean you can have all
• 37:15
  the money in the world, you can have machine behind you and it
• 37:18
  can just lead to nothing. I mean, there has to be
• 37:21
  something else that you're bringing to the table.
• 37:24
  But that's what people think is like the show is the big thing.
• 37:27
  No, the show's not even the big thing.
• 37:28
  The show's not even the slightest thing.
• 37:29
  It's the thing that you need in order to get to that next level.
• 37:33
  Like painting, for example, to me, and I discovered this 20
• 37:37
  years ago, that a painting to me is a tool that I can put up in a
• 37:41
  Facebook group and I can say, hey, look at what I've done.
• 37:45
  So as I can get another sale and I can do the exact same thing
• 37:48
  and say, hey, look at what I've done and let me tell you about
• 37:50
  this painting. As in, let me tell you about the
• 37:53
  story, let me tell you about the wonderful lady who commissioned
• 37:55
  me to do it. I'm telling you a story.
• 37:57
  I'm getting you engaged. But that's all it is every
• 38:01
  single time. It's another tool to market to
• 38:04
  keep the ball going, to keep the thing going.
• 38:07
  When you realize that, you know, you spend 10 years writing a
• 38:10
  book series and you write in a book, you do all the research
• 38:13
  and everything, you get to the end and you realize, right.
• 38:15
  OK, now I've got to think about merchandise.
• 38:18
  Now I've got to think about the agents.
• 38:19
  Now I've got to think about the franchise.
• 38:21
  Now I've got to think about how can I develop this more and more
• 38:23
  and more the the the show itself is just one step.
• 38:27
  It's like, where can I place this, you know, if I'm doing a
• 38:30
  show with Al Snow, Well, I'm placing that in all the
• 38:32
  wrestling channels. If I'm doing a show with Sean
• 38:34
  Kanan, I'm placing that directly in Cobra Kai, you know, and and
• 38:38
  so on and on and on it goes. You've always got to be thinking
• 38:41
  it's it's like the Rubik's Cube. It's so many moving parts that
• 38:45
  are part of this damn thing, but that's why you develop A-Team as
• 38:48
  things go on. As I'm getting a little bit
• 38:50
  older, I'm finding the real benefits of of a really good
• 38:53
  team for sure. I wish I had a team.
• 38:58
  I've got people that support me. Shout out to Vilma.
• 39:00
  But yeah, a team, that's the dream, man.
• 39:03
  But you may be surprised how many people are listening to
• 39:05
  this that are like, you know what?
• 39:07
  I'm either a single mother, single father, stay at home, you
• 39:10
  know, anxiety can't go out anything.
• 39:12
  I just want to be part of something.
• 39:14
  And you'd be amazed because that's what happened with me,
• 39:16
  that they're like, we we believe in what you're doing.
• 39:19
  We want to work for you. And I'm like, man, OK, now I
• 39:23
  need to get grant funding. So that's the first grant
• 39:25
  funding thing that I ever did. I was like, how much do you want
• 39:28
  100,000? And you know, you're dealing
• 39:30
  with this stuff and it's like, this is how this is how you grow
• 39:33
  and develop and build, and you've got to be ready for it.
• 39:36
  I've got to say, I know exactly who I'd have on my team.
• 39:38
  I know I like, but I that's the thing I want to be able to I I
• 39:42
  don't believe in doing things for free.
• 39:43
  You've got you can pay people. Yeah.
• 39:46
  Yeah. It doesn't matter how much they
• 39:47
  want to do it. Like you.
• 39:48
  You. No.
• 39:49
  You pay them. Absolutely.
• 39:50
  Yeah. It's deserves their pay.
• 39:52
  Yeah, it's like symbolic. I don't know, but it's it's
• 39:54
  important. You name drop to there a lot.
• 39:59
  I'm going to. I'm going to poke at it because
• 40:01
  I want to go for it. Firstly, Al Snow.
• 40:04
  What's Al Snow like? Tell us about Al Snow.
• 40:06
  I always start the shows in any conversation that I have with Al
• 40:10
  as the probably one of the most amazing wise people of our
• 40:18
  modern era, Al and I, and I don't know whether I should
• 40:22
  share this, but I'm going to anyway because it's public
• 40:25
  knowledge. Yeah, I know it's all OK, but I
• 40:29
  don't think he'd mind. But we actually talked about
• 40:31
  putting together a podcast back in, I want to say 2021, perhaps,
• 40:37
  maybe 2022. You know, And it would be
• 40:41
  similar to what you see, you know, with Bruce Prichard and
• 40:44
  Eric and all the others. And I thought, Al, you've got
• 40:48
  some phenomenal stories, But the sort of impression that I got
• 40:51
  from Alan, I know he's doing this now on live tours, but was
• 40:55
  his his genuine response was what would we talk about?
• 40:58
  And I'm like you're Al Snow, how many wrestling stories have you
• 41:02
  got? How much old wrestling could we
• 41:05
  talk? Because I'm a student of it from
• 41:06
  really the 20s onwards, you know, and and there was a lot of
• 41:11
  stuff that was there. Again, timing is always a big
• 41:13
  thing. So you may be ready and you may
• 41:16
  be in a position I laid out to a plan that was in excess of
• 41:21
  quarter of $1,000,000 a year in income and everything.
• 41:25
  And you know we just couldn't marry up for whatever reason.
• 41:29
  But Al is still one of my favourite people to interview to
• 41:33
  this day. He is one of the nicest people.
• 41:35
  He was my first guest on the Mind, Body and Soul show.
• 41:39
  And you know, when you start talking with people and then it
• 41:43
  gets like 10 seconds before your meeting for the first time and
• 41:46
  you're like, how the heck do I, you know, introduce myself?
• 41:49
  What do I say? How do I begin this?
• 41:51
  And he's literally grunting and groaning, trying to get things
• 41:53
  going. And I'm like, oh, it's been one
• 41:55
  of those weeks, says it. And he's like, yeah, it's it's
• 41:57
  one of those weeks every week and I'm like start laughing and
• 42:00
  away you go. And we we had great
• 42:03
  conversations. Got to I got to probe a little
• 42:06
  bit more because I mean you mentioned there.
• 42:08
  Yeah Al Snow's got great stories.
• 42:10
  I I I agree. Like obviously we grew up
• 42:12
  watching him in like the attitude era.
• 42:14
  He'd been resting way before that like he's he's the guy's a
• 42:17
  vampire like literally he's incredible.
• 42:19
  I mean I think he's been wrestling since like the mid 80s
• 42:21
  or something. I think he's he's in the last
• 42:24
  couple of years is maybe his fourth decade in Wrest.
• 42:27
  Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, because I remember
• 42:30
  thinking in in like the early, what was it the late 90s, early
• 42:34
  2000s that then he was like, I don't know, I guess like mid 20s
• 42:37
  or something like that or. But he was older than that.
• 42:40
  And I was like, what? He's been wrestling like 15
• 42:42
  years already. Like, yeah, but furthering your
• 42:44
  point, you know, we talked a lot about tough enough, which, you
• 42:48
  know, by that point he's done 16 years worth of wrestling.
• 42:51
  And only then was it really that you felt, wow, I really engaged
• 42:56
  with this character, Tough enough, did a lot for Al Snow
• 42:58
  and he did a lot for the show. And it's now, I would say really
• 43:03
  within the last 10 years that again, the genius of Al Snow has
• 43:07
  really come to light. You know, And in Thinking for a
• 43:11
  Rich, which is a book that I've, it's been drawn back into my
• 43:15
  listening to recently. You know, it talks a lot about
• 43:19
  men in particular will have success between their sort of
• 43:23
  late 30s, early 40s through to their 60s.
• 43:26
  So if you're sitting there thinking, you know, well, I'm in
• 43:28
  my 20s and I haven't had it based on all these, you know,
• 43:31
  witless wonders that run the social media world.
• 43:33
  You know, you kind of think give yourself a bit of a break here.
• 43:36
  I mean, I don't, I don't mean take the, you know, foot off the
• 43:39
  foot pedal, but I mean, you know, give yourself a bit of a
• 43:41
  break and the time to develop because I know I do stuff very
• 43:44
  differently now compared to what I did 10 years ago.
• 43:46
  But I'll. Yeah, super.
• 43:48
  How come you guys couldn't meet on that though?
• 43:50
  Because I felt like you would have.
• 43:53
  Painted a pretty good idea for him of like, what?
• 43:55
  Because, OK, let's let's just look at wrestling podcasts for a
• 43:58
  second, right. So for instance, when when Bruce
• 44:01
  Prichard and and Conrad Thompson were first put in their show
• 44:04
  together, as I understand Bruce initially wasn't interested at
• 44:09
  all in the concept and they toyed with it.
• 44:12
  The very first episodes I I think like were they tried like
• 44:17
  him reviewing Modern Roar and and Smackdown and it just kind
• 44:21
  of sucked. And then they sort of decided,
• 44:23
  no, what we should do is review classic stuff that people want
• 44:27
  to know about. Like what was it like producing,
• 44:30
  I don't know, WrestleMania, Royal Rambles, understand.
• 44:33
  What was it like getting fired etcetera, right.
• 44:37
  Yeah, Yeah. I feel like as if you're if
• 44:41
  you're a wrestling personality and you've been in the industry
• 44:45
  for many years and you're you're legendary at this point, you
• 44:49
  know? You've got two options.
• 44:50
  You either do the modern stuff like Jim Cornette where you know
• 44:53
  you can and you can still talk classic stuff.
• 44:55
  But you can also comment on on the traditional sorry the the
• 44:59
  new age stuff and give your kind of the wealth of knowledge and
• 45:03
  expertise and sort of say like well this is what's wrong, this
• 45:07
  is what's right etcetera, etcetera if and I feel or you
• 45:11
  can go just classic stories and just talking.
• 45:15
  You know, your your knowledge of the business.
• 45:16
  I mean, in the interviews and shoot interviews I've seen over
• 45:20
  the years with Al Snow, it's always been about what works
• 45:25
  with wrestling and what doesn't work with wrestling.
• 45:27
  I think the craziest thing I ever heard him say, which I
• 45:30
  agree with in principle, although it pains me to say it.
• 45:34
  Is when he said that the most successful rest of all time is
• 45:37
  Hulk Hogan based on the fact of drawing power like he's the
• 45:41
  greatest rest of all time. And I was just like, no, he's
• 45:44
  not. But then he said, but who draws
• 45:46
  the money? Who draws them in the house?
• 45:48
  And he's he's right. Like if you back in the day, if
• 45:51
  you put Hulk Hogan's name on on the bill, people will pay to see
• 45:54
  him. And, you know, they wouldn't
• 45:57
  necessarily pay to see. Whatever's third, fourth build
• 46:01
  on there, just because it's going to be a wrestling classic.
• 46:04
  Yeah, I mean if if you had the Mountie on, for example, last
• 46:06
  and it's no, not to Jacques or anything like that, but if you
• 46:09
  had, you know, the Mountie on last, you know, and that was
• 46:12
  your main attraction, you're not really going to sell it versus
• 46:14
  Hulk Hogan. Yeah, and it it just kind of
• 46:18
  blew my mind, that point that he outlined.
• 46:21
  But it it was spot on and you know, bringing it back to to the
• 46:26
  whole podcast pitch thing like. I'm just intrigued like
• 46:29
  obviously I know there there will be details you can't
• 46:31
  discuss, but like did Al give a particular reason why he wasn't
• 46:35
  interested? I mean, I know he's back doing a
• 46:37
  high value wrestling, so it's that does kind of fill up his
• 46:41
  time. But what could you say like what
• 46:44
  the main reason was? Absolutely.
• 46:46
  I mean there's really only been one other person that I've
• 46:50
  pitched the idea to and I think in AL's case it was literally,
• 46:57
  you know, I always do my my research of how much we can make
• 47:00
  and and I did it based off of Eric Bischoff's show in terms of
• 47:04
  the ad revenue, in terms of everything.
• 47:06
  So I'm looking at it from a business point of view as well
• 47:08
  as we could do a kick ass show here because I can talk, I can
• 47:12
  you know, I I know wrestling as well as anybody because I've,
• 47:17
  you know, 30 odd years of of studying it, enjoying it not
• 47:20
  just as a fan but from the business perspective from the
• 47:23
  insurance and outs and everything else.
• 47:25
  So I think what it really came down to was with LVW, we were
• 47:31
  scheduled to meet sort of the following week.
• 47:34
  I think it was in January and we were scheduled to meet the
• 47:36
  following week and he couldn't make that and then it was
• 47:39
  another week and he couldn't make that.
• 47:41
  And again, I think it was a conflicting time issue which
• 47:44
  really sucked. And eventually it was me that
• 47:47
  pulled the plug. And I just said how, you know,
• 47:50
  if, if, if this isn't going to work, I'm not going to try and
• 47:52
  force it because at the end of the day, you know, I would need
• 47:57
  the commitment as well because you can't just be there one week
• 48:00
  and then not the next. You don't have to be there.
• 48:04
  But, you know, and I think that was it.
• 48:05
  It was, it was down to, you know, timing more than anything
• 48:10
  else. It definitely wasn't down to the
• 48:12
  money because the deal for both of us was extremely lucrative,
• 48:18
  which was, you know, my real one of my first really big business
• 48:22
  pictures before. And I was, I remember shaking
• 48:24
  like a leaf at this thing and I remember just talking at him for
• 48:27
  like 5 or 6 minutes, all of these different things, but
• 48:31
  really calmly and and straight in it.
• 48:33
  But so that's really the the reason behind it, unfortunately.
• 48:36
  I'll say this now, on the small impossible chance that Al Snow
• 48:41
  would ever listen to this or see this.
• 48:44
  Let me tell you man, when you're done with OVW, seriously
• 48:48
  consider either doing a podcast or a YouTube show or some sort
• 48:53
  of. Regular show where someone
• 48:57
  interviews you and gets you to like share your stories Cos the
• 49:01
  man you could make so much money with that and like not
• 49:03
  everything is about money, but like man, the guy's got so much
• 49:09
  experience, valuable knowledge that you see.
• 49:13
  That's the thing with professional wrestling, the
• 49:15
  basics never change. The sport might develop and
• 49:18
  evolve and the trends and you know, like for instance.
• 49:21
  Now high flying is all the rage and etcetera, but like the
• 49:24
  principles never changed in ring psychology, character work,
• 49:29
  etcetera, etcetera. Like these things are always
• 49:31
  going to exist within wrestling and be important parts of what
• 49:37
  makes it brilliant. And I don't know anytime I've
• 49:39
  ever heard Al speak about the business, it's just been
• 49:42
  fascinating to learn about and but that's it.
• 49:46
  It's the wisdom that's there. I mean we did a whole segment on
• 49:49
  the show. I think it might have been the
• 49:50
  second or third one that we did together about a leg drop that
• 49:53
  he did at fully loaded 2000, you know because he misses the leg
• 49:57
  drop lands on his butt and that would that's what made it really
• 50:01
  different. And again and Al commented on
• 50:03
  this himself is like I'm really enjoying it because you're
• 50:07
  asking me questions that other people you know it it differs
• 50:11
  from the norm because. Oh, sure.
• 50:13
  Yeah. No.
• 50:15
  I know what you mean. Yeah, people.
• 50:16
  The typical question would be like, oh you know, how do you
• 50:19
  think about with head come around.
• 50:21
  Yeah, just like you've been asked like 50,000 times that I
• 50:23
  thought about this question a lot like if I was to have.
• 50:29
  That personality on my show, like, for example, you know,
• 50:31
  Eric Bischoff, We'll get into him in a minute.
• 50:33
  If by somehow I did this show and somehow it's possible to
• 50:37
  have Eric Bischoff on my show, I'm not going to sit there and
• 50:40
  ask him. So what was it like when WCW
• 50:43
  ended? No, I don't like, that's a
• 50:45
  stupid question to ask him. He's been asked like a bazillion
• 50:48
  times. But then what do you ask that
• 50:50
  person? Well, I I have one Christian.
• 50:53
  I have one that I thought about this morning.
• 50:56
  What a stupid question to ask. No, no, this isn't a stupid
• 50:58
  question, but it answers a lot with regards to the Montreal
• 51:01
  Screwjob. Eric Bischoff actually sowed the
• 51:05
  seed for the Montreal Screwjob in 95.
• 51:08
  How's that? Well, well, what he did with
• 51:10
  Medusa when he forced her to put the title in the bin, had that
• 51:14
  never happened. Vince McMahon never goes to
• 51:17
  Brett and says want the belt back because I'm paranoid about
• 51:20
  losing it. Eric's going to do this, Eric,
• 51:22
  even though he couldn't do that, and you start thinking.
• 51:26
  That, that, that, that, that, that.
• 51:27
  I mean, I'm, I'm caught in two minds about the Montreal screw
• 51:31
  job because part of me feels like Scott Hall was right and
• 51:36
  you could just smell or work a mile away and like you don't.
• 51:39
  There's no way you allow your top guy to spell out the name of
• 51:44
  your competition on your show. Like there's so many.
• 51:46
  And the fact that they were like focusing in on it and everything
• 51:49
  like it feels very orchestrated, but at the same time, if it's
• 51:54
  real. Then it's like, well, there's no
• 51:59
  way you let this guy that's leaving your company go with
• 52:02
  your title and look professional wrestling.
• 52:05
  Most people forget this. It comes from the carnival,
• 52:07
  yeah. You know that, yeah, it's it's
• 52:09
  always been a work and like Booker's over the years,
• 52:14
  particularly in the territory days would.
• 52:17
  Definitely screw over a talent in order to protect their
• 52:19
  business. And Vince McMahon is no
• 52:21
  different. Like he's done many things over
• 52:23
  the years. It wasn't that questionable,
• 52:26
  right. I I feel like with with this, I
• 52:28
  mean in that scenario like I don't feel like there's any good
• 52:34
  guys really. You know, I know no, no, hit me
• 52:37
  out. Like I I feel like Brett was
• 52:39
  being selfish in some ways. You know, he just he wouldn't.
• 52:43
  Do business with Sean, which I understand Sean back then was
• 52:46
  insufferable and you know it's it's would have been very
• 52:49
  difficult to do business with him.
• 52:50
  But look, you're leaving the company and he he was like, no,
• 52:54
  no, no, I won't lose the belt in Montreal.
• 52:56
  Like I have to be a good guy in my hometown.
• 52:57
  Like, what do you want about? Like it's you got to just over
• 53:01
  the years further than that. Now Brett denies it.
• 53:03
  But if you go back, as I have many times, Bret's story changes
• 53:07
  over the years. Yeah, but that's you can say
• 53:10
  that about any wrestler. Like you know, Sean's didn't.
• 53:13
  That was the thing about it. Sean has been consistent all the
• 53:16
  way through any interview he's done.
• 53:18
  It's Vince asked me to do this, this, this, this, this, you
• 53:21
  know, whereas Brett's was well, I can't lose to Sean And then
• 53:24
  Sean says this about me and then Sean said, now again, you know
• 53:28
  it's only three people know really and and out of the three
• 53:33
  you've really got only two that sat there.
• 53:35
  I mean you know, is Vince going to sit there with Brett and say
• 53:38
  Brett, I've got this idea? Well, of course he might, but
• 53:42
  life is really a work in in in one. 100% Oh dude, no.
• 53:48
  This is such a great point that that that so much of life is a
• 53:53
  work. Like, I mean, it's true.
• 53:56
  It's true. Like I I was saying this in the
• 53:58
  stream that I was doing the other day.
• 53:59
  Like I'm ioffer realness to my audience because I'm so sick of
• 54:04
  how fake the world is and how everything's bullshit.
• 54:08
  You like advertisement telling the truth?
• 54:10
  Yeah, I mean, look, just look at advertising.
• 54:13
  I studied marketing at university for years, and I did.
• 54:16
  I did. I worked in the industry for
• 54:17
  years and the biggest thing it taught me is that so much of
• 54:19
  what you see is absolute horseshit.
• 54:21
  Of course it is. And people lap it up.
• 54:23
  People buy it. They buy into the idea.
• 54:25
  Like advertising. A lot of the time it's not
• 54:27
  selling you the product, it's selling you the lifestyle.
• 54:30
  You know, it's like, oh, I'm not buying this car because I need
• 54:33
  this car. I'm buying this car because it
• 54:35
  will make me think I'm James Bond, you know, because that's
• 54:37
  what the advert. Sells here and life is is no
• 54:40
  different to that. Like in in every facet,
• 54:43
  everywhere you look like when you when I go and buy a bottle
• 54:46
  of beer and I look at it and it has a really fancy label and it
• 54:49
  looks really, really nice. But the the reality is it's it's
• 54:52
  maybe it's a good beer, but the you know, it's probably not as
• 54:55
  good as the packaging makes it look.
• 54:57
  You know, or when you go into a restaurant and you order a
• 55:00
  burger and it looks really great on the on the image screen and
• 55:03
  you? Get it?
• 55:04
  And it's like flat. And it's just, I mean in
• 55:10
  wrestling you expect it. In life, I think if you've
• 55:16
  really got your eyes open, you expect it to.
• 55:18
  Yeah, yeah. You know, studies have been done
• 55:21
  recently and this might be a novel thing to a lot of people
• 55:23
  listening. But again, social media is wired
• 55:27
  the same way that the newspapers are towards negativity.
• 55:30
  You know, people succeed based on the amount of controversy
• 55:35
  that you can create in a video and based on the amount of
• 55:38
  negative comments that you can get.
• 55:40
  So if you've got a nice fluffy video all about motivation,
• 55:43
  everything, it isn't going to work.
• 55:45
  Why this? I disagree.
• 55:47
  No, there's a lot of content out there that does work that is
• 55:50
  successful motivational wise. But you you are right.
• 55:53
  I mean, Eric said that controversy creates cash.
• 55:56
  Like it's 100%. I the amount of people that told
• 55:59
  me that as well, oh, your podcast would do better if you
• 56:02
  would just be controversial. And I'm like, I don't want to do
• 56:04
  that though, because that's what everyone's doing.
• 56:06
  And also it's it's it's also so childish as well.
• 56:09
  A lot of the time, like, I mean a lot of the time controversy
• 56:13
  just happens and you just have to find a good way to get out of
• 56:15
  it. But like a lot of the time, when
• 56:17
  I look at supposed controversy online, it comes from stuff that
• 56:22
  would be very easily. Fixed or or just avoided.
• 56:27
  But people decide to either lead into it because they want to
• 56:30
  make the money or yeah, and they get caught in the circle of of
• 56:33
  that. Or they're just ignorant and
• 56:38
  don't know how to to avoid it. Yeah, but then the problem is
• 56:41
  it's the people's lives. You know that you're affecting
• 56:44
  and exactly as you know, such as the Andrew Tate and Michaela
• 56:48
  Peterson incident that's allegedly happened where he's
• 56:51
  meant to have slept with her and everything else.
• 56:53
  And you're thinking, oh man, well, you know, Jordan Peterson
• 56:56
  has gone on record saying he basically thinks you're a pimp.
• 56:58
  But more so than that, it's like if you have done it, have enough
• 57:02
  good grace about you not to blab about it and not to do this,
• 57:07
  that and the other. So what you learn with a lot of
• 57:09
  these social media influencers and I've got to sort of like a
• 57:12
  top five, the everything that I see of theirs gets blocked and
• 57:16
  reported. So I don't see much of it these
• 57:19
  days, which is really wonderful. But they thrive and succeed by
• 57:22
  making other people feel miserable, you know?
• 57:24
  And that's a lot of it. So.
• 57:27
  You touched on something interesting there, like the the
• 57:29
  thinking about the way you present yourself and stuff like
• 57:32
  that. Like, I don't.
• 57:34
  I don't. Often sit and and and listen to
• 57:38
  Eric's show anymore. I used to do when it first began
• 57:40
  83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. But now I sort of clock in every
• 57:45
  now and again. I I also clock in with a
• 57:47
  strictly business show. I I'm more interested in Eric
• 57:49
  talking business to be honest, than wrestling.
• 57:52
  I love hearing about the wrestling stuff, but I feel
• 57:55
  like. His strongest suit has always
• 57:58
  been business, which I know people are laughing me and be
• 57:59
  like, oh, but what happened to WCW?
• 58:01
  That dude. Look, WCW was doomed to fail.
• 58:04
  Like it, it didn't matter if if Eric got every single decision
• 58:07
  right, it was still going to fail because of the AOL Time
• 58:11
  Warner merger and say about that, but.
• 58:13
  Yeah man, yeah and but he one thing I've noticed about him
• 58:19
  when he does interviews and he answers certain questions,
• 58:21
  particularly about WWE and I think.
• 58:25
  He does that, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm
• 58:28
  just going to say it like I feel like he he knows not to burn
• 58:34
  bridges. He'll say what he thinks, but
• 58:36
  he'll present it in that manner where it's like whatever I've
• 58:41
  said here, it will at least kind of protect.
• 58:46
  Because, look, business opportunities are always going
• 58:48
  to come his way because of who he is.
• 58:51
  His name carries cachet. It always will do.
• 58:54
  And you know, things change things, things evolve.
• 58:59
  Like one minute nobody wants you, the next minute everybody
• 59:02
  wants you. That's just how business works.
• 59:05
  And I feel like sometimes he could say more and he chooses
• 59:12
  not to. I think, well, I mean, he's been
• 59:16
  on his live tour. I think I'd love to he he's just
• 59:20
  completed we were there on his last night and he's that's it.
• 59:25
  I mean he's not going to be doing any more of these tours.
• 59:27
  He he has, you know, said that Plus I I think the age thing is.
• 59:33
  Sure, maybe, maybe in a minor front.
• 59:35
  But I think the bigger thing is, you know, he's a granddad now
• 59:38
  also, you know, it's like, how many times can you tell the same
• 59:41
  stories? Yeah, you know what I mean.
• 59:43
  But see, again though, maybe people aren't asking him the
• 59:46
  right questions. Well, yes, yeah.
• 59:48
  I mean questions that we we had was you know talk about the trap
• 59:52
  door in the in the ring with the British Bulldog incident and he
• 59:55
  was like wow I haven't been asked that one before you know
• 59:57
  so so that was always something again that you know but the way
• 1:00:01
  he was describing Vince and the way that you know you never you
• 1:00:05
  never sit there and think he really wants to go back to WWE.
• 1:00:09
  You know, I think he is looking for other opportunities.
• 1:00:11
  Elsewhere I will say this though, you don't want to burn
• 1:00:14
  your bridges. Yeah, but also I think it speaks
• 1:00:17
  to like. Being a good professional.
• 1:00:20
  Like for instance, I've spoken about bad business deals or
• 1:00:25
  things that have not gone well for me business wise.
• 1:00:28
  Or like in the acting sphere where, you know, maybe I've
• 1:00:31
  worked with someone unprofessional.
• 1:00:32
  I don't dog their name out. I don't.
• 1:00:35
  Same with businesses I've worked for that were bad.
• 1:00:36
  I never named them. I never, you know, trashed them
• 1:00:39
  and I don't think that's very becoming of a person to do so.
• 1:00:43
  Like, why would it make sense for Eric to just suddenly turn
• 1:00:46
  around and be like, I hate Vince McMahon and this this guy's
• 1:00:50
  trash? And, like, it just makes you
• 1:00:52
  look bad? Like it?
• 1:00:53
  Just why would you? Do you know what I mean?
• 1:00:55
  Even if you think that, I still think it's not a good idea.
• 1:00:58
  It's not healthy. And going back to a character we
• 1:01:01
  were talking about earlier on, you know, and I, I've known the
• 1:01:05
  family very loosely for the past five years or something with
• 1:01:08
  Bret Hart and everything. And you can still see not so
• 1:01:12
  much now, but certainly for a long, long time it was like,
• 1:01:17
  even though he's saying, you know, well, Montreal is not
• 1:01:21
  going to be my defining thing every time he talks about it.
• 1:01:26
  And the same with Goldberg. Yeah, I was going to bring that
• 1:01:28
  up like I feel. I feel like I I don't feel like
• 1:01:31
  you really hear him talk about. Montreal as much now, it kind of
• 1:01:35
  feels like it's it's done and and it's it's we've moved on.
• 1:01:38
  But now he just goes on about, yeah, every time.
• 1:01:40
  It's kind of a meme at this point.
• 1:01:41
  Just let's doggone Goldberg like what is that not well not knock
• 1:01:45
  on Brett as such because as someone that's gone through you
• 1:01:48
  know the PTSD and and everything else that's there, you know and
• 1:01:53
  and I can only speak from my own observations and and and
• 1:01:55
  everything else. But when something has happened
• 1:01:59
  in your life that is deeply traumatic and very, very
• 1:02:02
  difficult to overcome that thing.
• 1:02:04
  You know you talk about it over and over and over and over
• 1:02:06
  again. The problem is when you are a
• 1:02:08
  public figure you get asked about it again and again and
• 1:02:10
  again and again again of course very difficult.
• 1:02:12
  Then unless you turn around and say no I'm not doing these tours
• 1:02:15
  anymore. I'm not doing any interviews
• 1:02:17
  anymore. I'll never be heard from again.
• 1:02:20
  I'm just going to have a regular life.
• 1:02:21
  It's very difficult then to find any form of sort of closure and
• 1:02:27
  peace in your own self because every time it's like, well,
• 1:02:29
  wasn't Bill Goldberger, you know, you know, or tell us about
• 1:02:34
  Montreal or tell us about this, tell us about that rather than
• 1:02:37
  let's look at the other stuff that went on.
• 1:02:40
  You know, I mean, I think unfortunately for for the whole
• 1:02:44
  family, you know that there was a massive knock on effect not
• 1:02:47
  just with the hearts but also with the Smith family as well,
• 1:02:50
  you know, And it's yeah, I I don't know whether it's the the
• 1:02:56
  big wrestling family jinx because I hate using things like
• 1:03:00
  that. It's because the coin lyrics.
• 1:03:02
  Yeah. With you know the Andersons and
• 1:03:04
  a lot of the others. You know it.
• 1:03:06
  It's. I don't know.
• 1:03:08
  I don't know. But I I I hope at some point you
• 1:03:12
  know. And he seems to be doing better
• 1:03:13
  from what I've observed. I know his daughter's going
• 1:03:16
  through some rough times just now, but it it's just it's very
• 1:03:21
  bizarre to still talk about, you know, these people as even if
• 1:03:24
  you're a loose part of their life, you know that.
• 1:03:27
  You know, I I always look at them with fond memories more
• 1:03:29
  than anything else. Sorry.
• 1:03:31
  I completely cut across things I didn't.
• 1:03:32
  No, no, no. I think it's a really
• 1:03:34
  interesting point that you brought up this idea of PTSD and
• 1:03:37
  and trauma within the professional wrestling.
• 1:03:39
  I don't think it gets spoken about enough.
• 1:03:41
  I mean it it's a massive issue for sure.
• 1:03:43
  I think it's something that Al and I did touch on maybe the
• 1:03:46
  third episode or the 4th show that we did together because
• 1:03:50
  again, you know, the the when he was doing tough enough, I think
• 1:03:53
  was tough enough too. And Hawk was there, you know, he
• 1:03:57
  had an extreme, you know, breakdown.
• 1:04:00
  And Al didn't talk about it all that much on the show.
• 1:04:04
  It was, you know, I think you've always got to be very sensitive
• 1:04:08
  when you talk about anybody's, you know, mental health.
• 1:04:10
  But again, it was, it was like, Oh my goodness, this guy's not
• 1:04:14
  in a good place. And if you are going into the
• 1:04:17
  world professional wrestling, and I suppose in some ways this
• 1:04:20
  ties up, you know that, you know, this portion of why I
• 1:04:22
  didn't end up in wrestling it. In a lot of ways, you've got to
• 1:04:25
  be not only physically strong, you've got to be mentally strong
• 1:04:28
  and almost like a robot, an Android, You know that she's
• 1:04:31
  going to go go, go, go, go all the time.
• 1:04:35
  It's no surprise why. You know, You know, folks were
• 1:04:38
  doing the drugs that they were doing.
• 1:04:40
  You know why Shawn Michaels had this major breakdown in 96, you
• 1:04:43
  know because the load that you're expected to carry and
• 1:04:47
  even you know in in the brief time that I had with with both
• 1:04:50
  Laurie and Eric, more so with Eric and it was probably more in
• 1:04:53
  my head it's you want to appear more successful because you're
• 1:04:58
  around these people you want to be at their level and it's it is
• 1:05:01
  it is a very difficult thing. CM Punk is one of my favorite
• 1:05:04
  wrestlers of all time and I think he said it best when he
• 1:05:07
  was doing that classic shoot interview.
• 1:05:09
  He said that you're expected to be this character. 24/7 And when
• 1:05:15
  you get like fucked off at people and you and you react to
• 1:05:20
  it and you're like, well, hey, I'm a human being as well,
• 1:05:23
  suddenly that's when you get in trouble and you start get
• 1:05:25
  receiving push back, whether it's from the machine, whether
• 1:05:28
  it's from the fans, etcetera. Like, for instance, I see this
• 1:05:31
  quite a lot and it sickens me. It's 4:00 AM at the airport and
• 1:05:35
  you got a bunch of people with like shoving signs in whoever's
• 1:05:39
  face. I've seen it with Oscar, I've
• 1:05:41
  seen it with Rey Mysterio, etcetera.
• 1:05:43
  And it's like, first of all, go get a job, you know, because we
• 1:05:47
  all know what you're doing. You're not real fans.
• 1:05:48
  You're just harassing them, trying to get a quick bucks.
• 1:05:51
  You know, you're signing it, trying to get them to sign it so
• 1:05:54
  that you can sell it on eBay and make some money.
• 1:05:56
  And it's like, you know, you're not a real fan.
• 1:05:58
  Like it's it's not to say like you you got to think about these
• 1:06:03
  things like if if it's 4:00 AM at the airport and this person
• 1:06:09
  doesn't want to sign said thing. Think about it, they've been on
• 1:06:13
  a plane for ages, right? You're uncomfortable, you've
• 1:06:16
  probably got jet lag, you're knackered, you got camera phones
• 1:06:19
  shoved in your face, autographs shoved in your face, like of
• 1:06:24
  course you're not going to be in a great mood.
• 1:06:25
  Now. If I've paid money and I've
• 1:06:28
  queued up to see you in in like a convention centre somewhere
• 1:06:32
  and you're an asshole, then that's on the wrestler 100%.
• 1:06:36
  But then it's it's all about. Circumstance really isn't it And
• 1:06:42
  and and frames of reference like I feel like there's this kind of
• 1:06:48
  sense of entitlement in in the fan kind of sphere in wrestling
• 1:06:53
  and not just in wrestling you see it in others.
• 1:06:55
  Yeah. And I don't understand that
• 1:06:57
  incentives of entitlement thing. I don't get it.
• 1:06:59
  Like I mean. I think a big thing for me was
• 1:07:03
  learning that celebrities are just people.
• 1:07:06
  They're just people, you know, And like, it's cool to see a
• 1:07:09
  celeb, you know, like I I did, I worked an event the other day
• 1:07:13
  and Rick Astley was there and it's like, oh, cool, it's Rick
• 1:07:15
  Astley, But he's just a guy. He just happens to be famous.
• 1:07:19
  And I think people forget this. And I understand you idolise
• 1:07:22
  this person. They're they're everything.
• 1:07:24
  They mean everything to you. But at the same time, and I I
• 1:07:27
  wanted to ask you about this, so why don't we steer to this?
• 1:07:32
  Meeting Eric Bischoff. You met Eric Bischoff.
• 1:07:34
  Now, Bischoff, my apologies, that's got to be huge for you
• 1:07:38
  for a number of reasons, but let's talk about what is he
• 1:07:42
  really like? You know, because there's,
• 1:07:46
  there's, the, there's obviously. You meet a person, you know, I'm
• 1:07:50
  sure you're a little bit nervous meeting him, it's like, Oh my
• 1:07:52
  God, like it's like a hero of mine, but at the same time, he's
• 1:07:56
  a guy and you're sitting, you're doing business together.
• 1:07:58
  So and that's that's another element as well.
• 1:08:00
  Like you can't sit there and be like, Oh my God, like you can't,
• 1:08:03
  you can't do that. Like because it's business and
• 1:08:07
  it's, you know, so you're getting to know a different side
• 1:08:10
  of this person. And then you realise, like, oh
• 1:08:12
  wow, a hero of mine is a business partner of mine, a
• 1:08:16
  friend of mine. Talk to us about your
• 1:08:18
  relationship with Eric Bischoff and Laurie Bischoff as well.
• 1:08:22
  So I I have to laugh because often times I forget how exactly
• 1:08:27
  what you just said, you know, in terms of how people perceive
• 1:08:30
  them, how they're marketed, how we market ourselves and how will
• 1:08:34
  the people see us, you know, because there are people that I
• 1:08:38
  know that are still, Oh my goodness, either fangirling or
• 1:08:40
  fanboying. It's like, Oh my goodness,
• 1:08:42
  you're friends with above, you know, And and to me, I will sit
• 1:08:45
  there and you know, for an hour or two laugh with Lori about the
• 1:08:48
  most random things, you know, You know, it is super relaxed.
• 1:08:54
  I remember telling Eric this actually when we were having
• 1:08:56
  dinner and it was the hilarity of it because he is the only
• 1:09:02
  guest as far as I can think of that I was ever nervous about
• 1:09:06
  having on the show. And there was a number of things
• 1:09:09
  happening. You know, we had so many guests
• 1:09:11
  on at one point it was just go, go, go, go, go all the time.
• 1:09:14
  And I bought Eric's book. Controversy creates cash because
• 1:09:17
  again, I always research, you know, my guests as thoroughly as
• 1:09:20
  I can looking for all these different questions and all this
• 1:09:22
  kind of stuff. And I'd seen an interview with
• 1:09:24
  him, literally. I think if I was meant to go on
• 1:09:26
  air with him about 6:00, I'd seen this interview about 5.
• 1:09:30
  And I started hyperventilating. And I'm thinking, oh, my
• 1:09:33
  goodness, I'm going to, I'm going to be doing this, you
• 1:09:35
  know. And I can't say in all honesty,
• 1:09:37
  Eric was a hero of mine. But again, he's from the
• 1:09:40
  celebrity world. I know, I know.
• 1:09:42
  You know, he'd probably hear that he'd be like.
• 1:09:49
  Dude, I'd be stoked if he listened to my show.
• 1:09:52
  Listen to this show. I'd be stoked, man.
• 1:09:53
  You never know what can happen. You never know.
• 1:09:56
  You never know. But the Super cool thing about
• 1:09:58
  it was we're having this conversation.
• 1:10:00
  You know, I I calmed myself down very, very quickly.
• 1:10:02
  And, you know, Eric told me at the end of the show, You know,
• 1:10:06
  it was just like, wow, you're really good at that.
• 1:10:08
  And that was a big confidence boost.
• 1:10:10
  Like you said right at the beginning, you know, Morgan
• 1:10:12
  Freeman said this as well. You got to keep your toes
• 1:10:14
  tapping. You got to keep in the dance.
• 1:10:16
  And you know, there will be, you know, divine messages that are
• 1:10:19
  coming all along that keep you doing what you're doing.
• 1:10:22
  You got to keep on going with it.
• 1:10:24
  It's when you stop and quit that things just, you know, stop
• 1:10:27
  happening. But honestly, I mean, I'm
• 1:10:30
  sitting around, you know, we met in Glasgow.
• 1:10:32
  We had a very, very nice Curry together because they were
• 1:10:35
  looking for something different that you don't get in the
• 1:10:38
  States. Yeah.
• 1:10:39
  So they gave an option of like three things, and fish was one
• 1:10:42
  of them. And I thought fish, sushi, sushi
• 1:10:44
  and Curry. And I was like, yeah, I'm not
• 1:10:47
  the biggest fish lover and I'm not going to go out to a
• 1:10:49
  restaurant for it. Sorry, all you fish fans, my
• 1:10:51
  wife would love sushi. So I was like, you guys can do
• 1:10:53
  that, but I thought the Curry, the Curry would be a really good
• 1:10:58
  one and it was one of the best curry's you know, that I'd ever
• 1:11:01
  had. So that was something that we
• 1:11:03
  bonded over even in the first show that we did together.
• 1:11:08
  There's maybe been a three of them, one of them when I was at
• 1:11:10
  Los Angeles Tribune as well. And you know, again, most of the
• 1:11:15
  time super, super cool. He's, as you would imagine,
• 1:11:18
  quite reserved if you can, which may may surprise some people,
• 1:11:25
  may not the the whole sort of evening went by very, very
• 1:11:30
  quickly and somewhat in a blur, so it's just like OK.
• 1:11:34
  That many drinks? Well, well, he certainly did.
• 1:11:37
  You know, I mean, what's? His drink of choice?
• 1:11:39
  His was beer. Yeah.
• 1:11:42
  And he must have had about six large, I think it was at least
• 1:11:45
  six large tankards of this stuff.
• 1:11:47
  And I'm thinking, God and Laurie, I think, had a Prosecco.
• 1:11:52
  But yeah, I mean, it was super cool.
• 1:11:55
  You know, it was just chatting like what we're doing now, you
• 1:11:57
  know, what do you guys do about your lives and everything?
• 1:12:00
  But we did get talking as well to the connections that had
• 1:12:04
  brought us to this point. From my love of wrestling, back
• 1:12:08
  watching my granddad. And I'm like, if this doesn't
• 1:12:11
  happen, then what we're doing in business never happened.
• 1:12:14
  I also found out that Laurie's maiden name was Morris, which is
• 1:12:18
  really, really weird. That's really bad.
• 1:12:21
  I thought I told you that I was like, no, you know, so you
• 1:12:24
  you're joining up all the dots, you know?
• 1:12:27
  And again, it was it was super cool.
• 1:12:29
  Everything is connected and you can only really see these bread
• 1:12:32
  crumbs. Looking back, you can't see them
• 1:12:34
  going forward. So yeah, I mean, Eric's a super
• 1:12:38
  cool guy. Laurie's super, super cool.
• 1:12:42
  You know, OK, you're in Glasgow. There's definitely wrestling
• 1:12:46
  fans in Glasgow. When you're in the restaurant,
• 1:12:48
  does anyone notice him by recognizing, Oh yeah, yeah,
• 1:12:50
  yeah, OK. So this is, I want to ask about
• 1:12:53
  this because obviously, I'm sure he's used to it by now.
• 1:12:56
  He's probably got his own strategy of dealing with like,
• 1:12:58
  fans. So you said he's reserved.
• 1:13:02
  Yeah. Did he get, like uncomfortable
• 1:13:05
  or is he just kind of like, he sees it and, you know, he reacts
• 1:13:09
  to it? Like talk us a little bit about
• 1:13:11
  him dealing with fans. So interesting enough, as soon
• 1:13:16
  as we went into the restaurant we were there a little bit
• 1:13:18
  before them and and we said you know table for four in the name
• 1:13:23
  of Bischoff and it was the host that looked of us like Bischoff.
• 1:13:29
  Oh no. When the staff are like fat,
• 1:13:31
  like you can't win. Yeah, I mean it was just like
• 1:13:36
  either he didn't recognise the name, which we later found out
• 1:13:38
  not to be true, or he just looked at us like why the heck
• 1:13:42
  are you guys? You know, basically.
• 1:13:44
  But, but yeah, I mean everybody that was there, there was maybe
• 1:13:47
  4 fans that recognized Derek that that I know of that came up
• 1:13:51
  and asked him for photographs afterwards.
• 1:13:54
  They were very, very respectful. When we went to the live event
• 1:13:58
  on the Thursday, we were treated like royalty.
• 1:14:00
  I mean we, you know, again, they left our names on the door.
• 1:14:04
  We were put in, in our own private booth, Lawyer was
• 1:14:07
  sitting behind me, my wife to the side of me.
• 1:14:09
  And they were just like this is last night, you know, do you
• 1:14:12
  want anything drinks wise, anything that we want to
• 1:14:15
  basically, you know, it was, you know, you know, we'll take care
• 1:14:18
  of you and you know, we'll book the the meal and we'll do this,
• 1:14:21
  that and the other they they were fantastic.
• 1:14:24
  But no, I mean Eric was literally just like, you know,
• 1:14:27
  just just like we're talking now.
• 1:14:29
  It is like sitting there with my dad, you know, it was super cool
• 1:14:33
  and he just dealt with it, like can I get a photo?
• 1:14:35
  Yep, done. And he realised actually that
• 1:14:38
  there is a massive audience of wrestling here in Scotland and
• 1:14:42
  in the UK which never had clicked on their radar before.
• 1:14:47
  So I think, you know, there may be something in the future with
• 1:14:50
  regards to that so but time will tell.
• 1:14:54
  What do you mean like? Him he oh and like live tour
• 1:14:58
  with Eric Bischoff? Well, no.
• 1:15:00
  I mean, Eric's finished doing his live tours now as they were
• 1:15:03
  before, but I think he's always open to other business
• 1:15:07
  opportunities for sure. Interesting.
• 1:15:10
  Always interesting, that's going to say, because like he must
• 1:15:13
  have known when during his WCW days about like the how big
• 1:15:17
  wrestling is in the uki mean. Well, I mean.
• 1:15:20
  It's always been big, yeah. Oh, I mean, it's always been
• 1:15:22
  big. But I think his reader, to a
• 1:15:24
  degree, was, I don't know if he realised how big an audience is
• 1:15:29
  actually there. And Laurie certainly didn't.
• 1:15:31
  That's fair. Yeah.
• 1:15:32
  I mean, I I mean, I was telling her stuff about Eric's WWE time
• 1:15:37
  like Eric, Not Fabulous. Me, Me Young, sticking the
• 1:15:41
  sardines down a crutch and doing the.
• 1:15:43
  Yeah, I remember that. Laurie knew nothing about that.
• 1:15:46
  And she's like, how the heck did you know about that as like you,
• 1:15:49
  you spend some time and you listen to Michael Hayes, you
• 1:15:51
  know? That's that's a point as well.
• 1:15:54
  OK, so Laurie, what? Wasn't aware of that storyline
• 1:15:57
  that that had happened. Well, she, she wasn't aware of a
• 1:15:59
  lot of his WWE time because it was, when you really think about
• 1:16:03
  it, it was relatively short. It was a relatively short period
• 1:16:06
  in their life. There was a lot of stuff going
• 1:16:08
  on for her and it was just like, Nah, OK?
• 1:16:12
  You know, I think that's a really solid point as well
• 1:16:14
  because their lives are totally different and we'll get into
• 1:16:17
  Laurie in a second. But like, it's, it's kind of
• 1:16:20
  fascinating because as you say, like he did a lot in the space
• 1:16:23
  world. I think it's four years, 02 to
• 1:16:25
  06 and yeah, his whole resting career in general.
• 1:16:29
  There's been so many chapters in that.
• 1:16:32
  But you know, if you have a partner like I have it with my
• 1:16:34
  partner, like we lead very different lives and.
• 1:16:37
  I think it's impossible to keep up with everything that they do.
• 1:16:40
  You know, you kind of just chip it.
• 1:16:41
  I'm sure they have like conversations about pivotal
• 1:16:43
  things like you know for instance hearing Eric talk about
• 1:16:49
  the end of WCW and where he was on that particular night and I I
• 1:16:53
  kind of hearing him speak about it.
• 1:16:54
  I could imagine like he was with family, he was doing his thing,
• 1:16:57
  you know, etcetera. It's it's interesting trying to
• 1:17:01
  kind of find time to talk about those things.
• 1:17:05
  But you know, I I like, I like how I like Eric Bischoff the
• 1:17:09
  man, rather than the personality.
• 1:17:11
  I got to say, like whenever I hear these little tidbits every
• 1:17:14
  now and again, like I remember one time just a final point on
• 1:17:16
  Eric, like he mentioned, possibly on a show with Conrad,
• 1:17:21
  I don't, I don't recall about how he likes to go to when he
• 1:17:24
  goes to a new city. He likes to find like a small
• 1:17:28
  local bar somewhere. You know, he'll ask people like
• 1:17:31
  someone at the hotel like, oh like where would you go to
• 1:17:34
  drink? And they'll tell him and then
• 1:17:36
  he'll go, he'll go there and he'll just sort of immerse
• 1:17:39
  himself in the culture. Like, I totally relate to that.
• 1:17:42
  Like when I when I go to bars, I don't necessarily go to the one
• 1:17:45
  that's kicking. I go to like the place where I
• 1:17:47
  get the conversations and I meet all the people.
• 1:17:49
  Like for example the the bar that I go to now there's there's
• 1:17:54
  one guy who has has like. Worked with every band you could
• 1:17:58
  ever think of on like Rd. Crew as another guy who is
• 1:18:02
  responsible for, like, the BBC iPlayer.
• 1:18:06
  Yeah, like it's just one of those, like, and every now and
• 1:18:08
  again people will tell me like, oh, did you know that like,
• 1:18:11
  Alice Cooper's been in this bar? Do you know that, like, Corey
• 1:18:14
  Taylor's been in this bar last week and I'm like, what?
• 1:18:17
  Like it's just one of those places.
• 1:18:18
  You never know. It's like a weird kind of
• 1:18:21
  Twilight Zone place. But yeah, I like, I think that's
• 1:18:25
  more interesting. And if just to close on that,
• 1:18:28
  like if I was to ever have a celebrity on my show, that's how
• 1:18:32
  I'd go about it. Like, yeah, if we can weave in
• 1:18:35
  some of that interesting stuff about their career, sure.
• 1:18:38
  But, you know, you don't want to ask.
• 1:18:41
  I'm already experiencing it and I'm not even a celebrity, but
• 1:18:43
  I've been asked certain questions again and again and
• 1:18:46
  again and it's like. You.
• 1:18:49
  I can see why people get like a bit tired of that.
• 1:18:52
  I I do understand the The funny thing was just to I suppose put
• 1:18:56
  a a bow on it. You know we spent very little
• 1:18:59
  time if anything talking about wrestling that night.
• 1:19:03
  We spent more time talking about our lives, about, you know,
• 1:19:06
  trips, travel, about both of our love of histories, you know, and
• 1:19:11
  and so much more, you know. Again, it was, it was the
• 1:19:14
  person, you know, I was there for the live show and it was
• 1:19:17
  like Daffy Duck on steroids, some to some degree interesting.
• 1:19:22
  But when when you're talking with him, there was the natural,
• 1:19:24
  you know, points in the conversation.
• 1:19:26
  There was also those lulls as well where he was just sitting
• 1:19:29
  there and quite happy. Yeah.
• 1:19:31
  And it's it's I think that I wouldn't have expected you to
• 1:19:35
  sit and talk about wrestling the whole time because A, you're not
• 1:19:38
  going into business to talk about wrestling and and B.
• 1:19:44
  You know, that's more important when you're getting into
• 1:19:46
  business with someone. You want to kind of know like
• 1:19:49
  what makes this person tick, what they're about.
• 1:19:51
  Like, you know, the vibe of that person because, you know, it's
• 1:19:54
  quite an intimate thing. It's, yeah, it's professional
• 1:19:56
  and obviously you're not getting personally involved, but like,
• 1:19:59
  there is a degree of personality in it, I suppose, you know, it's
• 1:20:05
  it's just interesting. Yeah.
• 1:20:07
  But let's let's talk about Laurie Bischoff, because as I
• 1:20:09
  understand. You're you're you formed this
• 1:20:13
  business with Laurie Bischoff and it's specifically within
• 1:20:17
  Life Coaching. Now for those who don't know,
• 1:20:20
  Laurie Bischoff had a whole career in in modelling I believe
• 1:20:24
  and then she she's done a few things over the years but then
• 1:20:28
  she's really kind of this is where you guys meet is on this
• 1:20:30
  Life Coaching thing. So let's let's explore that in
• 1:20:32
  your relationship with Laurie Bischoff.
• 1:20:34
  Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny that you say that because
• 1:20:37
  I was asked about that. There were certain things that
• 1:20:38
  had come to light and I was just like, OK, that happened, you
• 1:20:42
  know, X amount of years and whatever.
• 1:20:44
  I was like I focus on the stuff that we do now, but it literally
• 1:20:48
  happened all around that time. You know, again of of January
• 1:20:51
  2021, we'd done our podcast, gosh, maybe the, I want to say
• 1:20:57
  the autumn before. So you know, sort of December,
• 1:21:01
  you know, August, September 2020.
• 1:21:04
  And I just reached out to her. I was like, you know, I'm
• 1:21:07
  looking at doing this initially. It was to see what kind of life
• 1:21:10
  just just cold. Like Cold just emailed her and.
• 1:21:13
  So I was in the process of looking for a new business coach
• 1:21:18
  and I I think it was Eric that had shared something and clicked
• 1:21:23
  on and I was like hey, you know I'm I'm thinking of doing this.
• 1:21:27
  Anyway, we we meet, they were down in Florida at the time.
• 1:21:30
  We have a very nice conversation, probably for about
• 1:21:33
  an hour. And we just kind of keep in
• 1:21:34
  touch and you know, nothing else happened after that.
• 1:21:38
  And then it was, you know, I'm now doing my podcast.
• 1:21:41
  Would you be interested in being a guest?
• 1:21:43
  And I think the, the way that we framed some of the segments was
• 1:21:47
  about, you know, the life of a wrestling wife, which is one of
• 1:21:52
  the things that doesn't often get talked about.
• 1:21:53
  You know, you've got young kids, you got this, that and the other
• 1:21:55
  going on. You know, now you've moved into
• 1:21:57
  all this other stuff and then yeah, we just sort of, you know.
• 1:22:03
  Loosely kept in touch more than anything else And it was really,
• 1:22:06
  I want to say maybe about March time of 2021 a lot of stuff
• 1:22:10
  going on with me that I reached out to her.
• 1:22:12
  I was like, I've got to tell you about this thing.
• 1:22:14
  I've no idea why. I just probably needed someone
• 1:22:16
  to tell you know and and you know see so we'd start talking
• 1:22:19
  about teen life coaching and and she was like, I love it.
• 1:22:24
  I don't know. I don't know exactly what this
• 1:22:25
  is going to look like. But I'm in, and suddenly I
• 1:22:27
  realized I've got a business partner, you know?
• 1:22:30
  And it was like, wow, OK. You never think sometimes
• 1:22:34
  anything more of it and you're just like OK moving forward.
• 1:22:38
  And before we knew it, I mean we we started working on our first
• 1:22:40
  course together. We started working on a number
• 1:22:42
  of different things and then I was still producing her show at
• 1:22:46
  that time. I'd taken over from Chrissy and
• 1:22:50
  she she and I kind of went our separate ways for a while.
• 1:22:54
  We we just did our own thing and she gets in touch with me.
• 1:22:58
  I want to see sort of the back end of last year and says.
• 1:23:02
  You know, can we have a catch up And I'm like.
• 1:23:05
  So she sits down, she lays out this idea to me, what are you
• 1:23:08
  going to do at Teen Life Coaching?
• 1:23:09
  And I said, well, I'm busy with, you know, my novels and
• 1:23:11
  everything. And at that point that's all I
• 1:23:13
  really want to be doing. I was studying my BSc in
• 1:23:15
  psychology. I had enough on my my plate and
• 1:23:17
  everything, so I kind of left it there.
• 1:23:21
  And anyway, she, she came back again with with a deal that she
• 1:23:24
  had in mind because she really wanted to do something with
• 1:23:28
  this. And I was like, OK.
• 1:23:32
  So before I knew it we had formed an LLC.
• 1:23:35
  For those that don't know, it's a in certain parts it's a
• 1:23:38
  limited, a limited licensed company.
• 1:23:40
  Some parts it's a legally licensed company, just depends
• 1:23:42
  on your phraseology. And I remember getting all the
• 1:23:45
  paperwork through and everything and looking at it like, holy
• 1:23:47
  cow, I've just formed a business partnership with Warrior
• 1:23:50
  Bischoff, you know, And it was, it was so fast in many ways that
• 1:23:57
  have happened, you know, and you're just like, wow.
• 1:24:00
  You know, but, but it all started from that conversation
• 1:24:03
  initially where she was like, I love your knowledge of business.
• 1:24:06
  I love, you know, the fact that you know how to set these things
• 1:24:08
  up, you know, And she was just like, let, let, let's do this,
• 1:24:12
  you know, let, let's see what we can do and develop.
• 1:24:15
  So you never know what can come out of those initial
• 1:24:16
  conversations. We've since found that several
• 1:24:19
  times over, you know, in in certain things, which is super,
• 1:24:23
  super cool. But Lori's, Lori's just
• 1:24:25
  brilliant. Yeah, this is a great point as
• 1:24:27
  well. You've touched on you never know
• 1:24:29
  where something can go. Yeah, if you just take a bet on
• 1:24:32
  it. Like I I think this every time I
• 1:24:34
  put a new show out, every time I do a live stream or I apply for
• 1:24:39
  something acting wise like or a go to an event, whatever.
• 1:24:43
  You never know what can come of it guys.
• 1:24:46
  Just keep trying of that. Christian is recently, I think
• 1:24:50
  maybe the last month we did a show with a guy called Marcus
• 1:24:53
  Ogden, who was a former NFL footballer.
• 1:24:57
  And he had me on his show. You know Tracy reached out and
• 1:25:00
  was just like you know, really, really good.
• 1:25:02
  All this anyway in the in the sort of interim between you know
• 1:25:06
  setting up 1 camera and another. He was like, I really want to
• 1:25:09
  talk to you after the show. Now unfortunately because of
• 1:25:12
  time conflicts we we didn't end up doing that and we're still
• 1:25:14
  trying to marry up our times because he's very much involved
• 1:25:16
  with public speaking and and and a lot of other things he's got
• 1:25:19
  going on. But he was like, I'm really
• 1:25:22
  interested in working with you. And you're thinking, wow, OK,
• 1:25:26
  you know, we we've got this little operation going on and
• 1:25:29
  all of a sudden you've got an NFL footballer and the wife of,
• 1:25:32
  you know, Eric Bischoff both wanting to work with you, you
• 1:25:35
  know, so you just never, ever know.
• 1:25:36
  But it is always about how you present yourself.
• 1:25:39
  It is about knowing what you're talking about rather than
• 1:25:42
  playing you know, around with it more than anything else.
• 1:25:45
  And what advice could you give to people wanting to kind of
• 1:25:48
  present themselves more in a professional manner in order to
• 1:25:52
  get better and bigger business opportunities?
• 1:25:54
  So the first thing that I would say is know what you're talking
• 1:25:57
  about the amount of people that go into and I know that sounds
• 1:26:00
  like a really old it's. Like Burr, you know, But the
• 1:26:03
  amount of people that again, if I asked you know what is it that
• 1:26:06
  you sell? What is it that you do?
• 1:26:10
  Whereas if you ask me on any of our businesses, I can give you a
• 1:26:13
  snap answer because again, I've thought about it.
• 1:26:15
  I have literally use your toilet time, use your shower time, use
• 1:26:19
  your bath time to learn how to talk, how to do an interview,
• 1:26:22
  how to do a promo. You know, again, don't sit there
• 1:26:25
  messing about on your phone because it's not going to give
• 1:26:27
  you any sort of, you know, feedback that's going to develop
• 1:26:30
  you more so than what you are going to learn from.
• 1:26:34
  An imaginary interview because you can be anywhere, You know,
• 1:26:37
  Bobby Heenan talked about this. He was like, you know, when
• 1:26:39
  you're shaving in the morning. Now obviously I don't do that.
• 1:26:41
  But when you're shaving or when you're in the bath or shower,
• 1:26:43
  whatever, you know, imagine yourself as a Native American.
• 1:26:46
  How would you do an interview? Imagine yourself as a rock star.
• 1:26:49
  How would you do an interview? A best selling author.
• 1:26:52
  You know, a world famous artist, A top leading podcaster.
• 1:26:56
  You know, imagine yourself on Jimmy Fallon.
• 1:26:57
  Imagine yourself on former James Corden show.
• 1:27:00
  You know, imagine, imagine, imagine.
• 1:27:02
  Because again, imagination is more powerful.
• 1:27:05
  Einstein has said this over and over again.
• 1:27:07
  Imagination is the most powerful thing that you have in your
• 1:27:10
  arsenal. It is how you can literally take
• 1:27:12
  something from an idea and a concept into reality.
• 1:27:16
  And that's what I do with absolutely every single thing.
• 1:27:19
  Whether it's creative business made simple, whether it's art
• 1:27:21
  from the heart, whether it's Teen life coaching, it's an
• 1:27:23
  idea. What do we do?
• 1:27:25
  How do we do it? Once you've got the answers to
• 1:27:27
  that and you know what you're talking about, you condition
• 1:27:30
  yourself in the same way a bodybuilder would, a wrestler
• 1:27:32
  would. You know, whatever, you will
• 1:27:35
  know. So that is, I think, #1 biggest
• 1:27:38
  piece of advice I would give to anybody that's wanting to have
• 1:27:41
  those bigger conversations is prepare for your opportunity.
• 1:27:46
  Reach out to people, even if they don't come back to you.
• 1:27:49
  You know, even if they completely blank you and freeze
• 1:27:51
  you. I reached out to Al Snow
• 1:27:53
  completely cold on my wrestler Instagram page and I said, hey,
• 1:27:57
  I'm doing this podcast. Would you be interested in being
• 1:28:00
  a guest? Yeah, sure.
• 1:28:01
  You never know what might come back.
• 1:28:03
  Sean Kanan. I reached out to him after a
• 1:28:06
  done Laurie Bischoff show. Would you be interested?
• 1:28:08
  Yeah, we had one of the best conversations, you know and and
• 1:28:11
  he was the other person that I pitched an idea of, of doing a
• 1:28:14
  long term podcast to. So you know, you just never,
• 1:28:17
  ever know what is there, but also expect that there's going
• 1:28:20
  to be ebbs and flows in your business as you develop as well.
• 1:28:25
  Really sorry, advice. Thank you for sharing.
• 1:28:27
  Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Christian
• 1:28:31
  Reef podcast. As always, please, if you did
• 1:28:34
  enjoy the show, leave us a review on Pod Chaser, YouTube,
• 1:28:39
  Spotify, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you listen to the show,
• 1:28:43
  please leave us a review, like, share, subscribe, leave us a
• 1:28:46
  rating. All of these things really,
• 1:28:49
  really help us out in the algorithm.
• 1:28:51
  It helps with pushing the show forward, getting it seen and
• 1:28:54
  heard by more and more people, and who knows, maybe even just
• 1:28:58
  taking this podcast to where it deserves to be.
• 1:29:01
  In addition, please subscribe to us on
• 1:29:04
  patreonpatreon.com/christian Reeve and you can support me
• 1:29:08
  putting this show together. I do it all myself.
• 1:29:10
  So you know, if if you want to help me out, help a guy out and
• 1:29:14
  potentially help us grow the show in a big, meaningful way,
• 1:29:18
  Patreon's the way to do it. Patreon.com/christianreeve,
• 1:29:21
  thank you so much for watching this episode.
• 1:29:24
  And until next time, I'll see you in the next one.