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SYSK Selects: How Landfills Work · Stuff You Should Know

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody. Chuck here with your Saturday selects. Pick how
0:04
Speaker 1: landfills work. J This is a good one everyone. Uh.
0:09
Speaker 1: This is part of our I guess uh city works
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Speaker 1: uh suite of podcasts. And how things like landfills work
0:17
Speaker 1: is super important and very interesting and not quite as
0:20
Speaker 1: depressing as you might think a little bit. But it's
0:23
Speaker 1: also kind of a marvel of engineering how these things
0:27
Speaker 1: actually get pulled off. So take a listen, take a
0:30
Speaker 1: re listen even how landfills work? Right now, welcome to
0:39
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know, a production of I Heart Radios
0:41
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
0:50
Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there,
0:54
Speaker 1: and this is Stuff you should Know. Hi, how's it going.
1:00
Speaker 1: It's great? Good, Good to yourself. I found this topic
1:07
Speaker 1: and I was starting to tell you before how interesting
1:09
Speaker 1: I thought it was. Yeah, you went it's awesome. I
1:13
Speaker 1: was like, stop, it's gold. So now I'm going to
1:15
Speaker 1: say it. It's awesome. And landfills the concept of a landfill,
1:22
Speaker 1: even though it ain't perfect, it's pretty neat. Yeah, And
1:26
Speaker 1: even though we need to reduce the amount of trash,
1:28
Speaker 1: especially Americans produce. Yeah, um, there is still going to
1:33
Speaker 1: be trash in the world and it needs to be
1:34
Speaker 1: dealt with. And this is way better than the old days. Uh,
1:40
Speaker 1: when in like pre nineteen thirty New York City they
1:44
Speaker 1: would dump their garbage in the ocean. And then between
1:47
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty and we still do that. You realize, well,
1:51
Speaker 1: New York City doesn't dump it right in the Atlantic Ocean, no,
1:54
Speaker 1: but a lot of garbage is dumped in the ocean. Yeah. Well,
1:56
Speaker 1: we talked about the Great Pacific Garbage back um. And
2:00
Speaker 1: then between the nineteen thirties and the nineteen seventies they
2:02
Speaker 1: had what they called dumps, which is a big hole
2:06
Speaker 1: in the ground covered in rats and birds and that
2:09
Speaker 1: you would just dump garbage to leach into everything. Yes,
2:13
Speaker 1: which is messed up. And the e p A comes
2:16
Speaker 1: along and I think the sixties, definitely the seventies and
2:19
Speaker 1: was like, uh, we need to do something better about this.
2:23
Speaker 1: But so the the idea of the landfill was born
2:29
Speaker 1: in about the sixties, I believe. Well, well, the first
2:32
Speaker 1: modern sanitary landfill was seven and frees Now, okay, that's right,
2:36
Speaker 1: and it's like a National Historic Place or something. Yeah,
2:38
Speaker 1: because it kind of kicked off the whole thing. But
2:40
Speaker 1: it wasn't until the sixties and seventies that they started
2:43
Speaker 1: passing law saying that, like every state really needs to
2:46
Speaker 1: start doing the same thing, right And like you said
2:49
Speaker 1: before that they just dumped their trash and a pit,
2:51
Speaker 1: which people have been doing for millennia at least um
2:56
Speaker 1: they were burning their trash also, and it sounds mine
3:00
Speaker 1: ugglingly awful, and it is, especially from an environmental standpoint,
3:04
Speaker 1: but they didn't have the trash problem that we have
3:07
Speaker 1: now in the sixties. Since the nineteen sixties are trash generation,
3:14
Speaker 1: municipal solid waste generation has um doubled, tripled, tripled, And
3:21
Speaker 1: I was like, why is that? What's going on? Apparently
3:24
Speaker 1: it's the advent of cheap packaging. Before styrofoam packaging, before plastic,
3:31
Speaker 1: before aluminum cans that everybody just threw away. Everything was
3:34
Speaker 1: wrapped in a T shirt that you could wear exactly,
3:37
Speaker 1: and like when you weren't carrying around a slab of
3:39
Speaker 1: meat in the T shirt from the butcher to your house,
3:42
Speaker 1: you wore your T shirt so you reused it, right, No,
3:46
Speaker 1: but no, you would you would have maybe, like, um,
3:49
Speaker 1: do you remember when Sam the butcher brought Alice the meat.
3:53
Speaker 1: BC Boys reference was just about to say, um, freshman
3:57
Speaker 1: Stone driving around with two ft bald ft yeah, which
4:01
Speaker 1: is I guess a really weird way of putting in
4:03
Speaker 1: his barefoot. Well, it didn't rhyme bald feet anyway. He
4:08
Speaker 1: would bring it to her wrapped in like white butcher's
4:10
Speaker 1: paper and she would throw it away and it would
4:14
Speaker 1: really not take up much space of the dump. It
4:16
Speaker 1: would decompose. It wasn't like styrofoam, which lasts for fifty
4:20
Speaker 1: thousand years, right, Yeah, And so starting about nine sixty, packaging,
4:27
Speaker 1: especially very non biodegradable packaging, took off like a rocket.
4:31
Speaker 1: Yeah you could still go to the butcher, though now
4:34
Speaker 1: you can, and you get it in paper, but you
4:36
Speaker 1: go to that big chain grocery store and it's going
4:38
Speaker 1: to be plastic in styrofoam. So between nineteen sixty and
4:43
Speaker 1: are packaging waste increased by eight That meant that we
4:49
Speaker 1: had to do something. We had a lot more trash
4:51
Speaker 1: and we had to take care of this trash and
4:54
Speaker 1: ways that we had before. And so the modern landfill
4:58
Speaker 1: based on that Fresno model uh boomed And fortunately that's
5:04
Speaker 1: right but even now they're finding we went too far
5:08
Speaker 1: in one direction. Yeah, now we need to adjust to
5:11
Speaker 1: massage it a little bit, refine it, and we're we
5:13
Speaker 1: were coming up with a new generation of landfills. That's right. So, uh,
5:18
Speaker 1: if you're talking about a landfill, the goal of a
5:21
Speaker 1: landfill is not to compost trash. And a lot of
5:25
Speaker 1: people probably don't know this. Yeah, it's not to compost
5:27
Speaker 1: trash such that it breaks down super quickly, uh and biodegrades.
5:32
Speaker 1: It is the opposite of that. It is to keep
5:34
Speaker 1: it as dry as possible in an airtight and and
5:38
Speaker 1: just bury it, lock it away from the surrounding world.
5:42
Speaker 1: That's right. And so that's what a landfill is, a
5:44
Speaker 1: sanitary landfill, municipal solid waste or MSW landfill. Um, they
5:50
Speaker 1: isolate the trash from the environment. They don't just dump
5:53
Speaker 1: it on the dirt and let things leach in. And
5:56
Speaker 1: this thus begins the landfill podcast Sarah. Lot of components
6:00
Speaker 1: to that, but that's along and short of it. It's true.
6:03
Speaker 1: And um, what what that's called. The whole idea behind
6:07
Speaker 1: that landfill that was in reaction to that's one A
6:13
Speaker 1: dry tomb is the industry lingo for it. It's and
6:17
Speaker 1: it it was created in reaction to trash just being
6:22
Speaker 1: allowed to seep into the groundwater and methane to leak
6:27
Speaker 1: out in the air blow up. Apparently, houses that have
6:31
Speaker 1: utility pipes that passed by old landfills, methane will get
6:35
Speaker 1: into those utility pipes and like get in mixed in
6:38
Speaker 1: with the electricity and when you go to plug in
6:40
Speaker 1: your toaster and it sparks kaboom. Really. Yes, it's a
6:44
Speaker 1: problem with old landfills because they were all idiots with
6:48
Speaker 1: trash like up until the sixties, seventies, eighties, um, and
6:54
Speaker 1: even still we have a big problem with trash, but
6:59
Speaker 1: nothing like it is before. As far as taking care
7:01
Speaker 1: of it, we're starting to really get a handle on it.
7:03
Speaker 1: Americans produce four point six pounds of trash per day
7:07
Speaker 1: per person. Yeah, and you know what's crazy is you'd think, well,
7:10
Speaker 1: America is probably like as bad as it gets. Know,
7:12
Speaker 1: the UK is America is like in the middle roughly
7:16
Speaker 1: for trash generation, and the UK is the worst. They
7:21
Speaker 1: produced per capita, They produced the most, and um they
7:26
Speaker 1: also throw away the most. They have the lowest recovery rate. Um.
7:30
Speaker 1: Although it's gone up I believe I think they had
7:32
Speaker 1: like some sort of national initiative because it says here
7:37
Speaker 1: that it went up from thirty one recovery rate, which
7:40
Speaker 1: is like recycling and that kind of stuff, um, basically
7:44
Speaker 1: diverting it from the landfill, to so it's actually better
7:48
Speaker 1: than America as far as the resource recovery rate goes.
7:51
Speaker 1: Canada is the worst. I'm sorry, Canada is the worst. Yeah,
7:54
Speaker 1: that's hard to believe. I would think so too, but
7:56
Speaker 1: it's true. The standout is Germany. Germany produces way more
8:01
Speaker 1: trash per person than any other country per capita, but
8:05
Speaker 1: they also have the highest recovery rate at like almost
8:11
Speaker 1: of their trash gets diverted from the landfill. That's amazing.
8:14
Speaker 1: Actually that's efficient. What what's the American number on that diversion?
8:18
Speaker 1: It hovers about a third for at least a couple
8:23
Speaker 1: of decades, now, maybe three decades, you could say Americans
8:26
Speaker 1: diverted about they diverted about a third of their trash
8:30
Speaker 1: from the landfill. You'd like to see that number get
8:32
Speaker 1: better in three decades for sure, you know, and it's
8:35
Speaker 1: always hovers around thirty and it should be a lot
8:40
Speaker 1: better than that. You know, what that sounds like to me,
8:42
Speaker 1: whoever is in charge of doing that study is just like,
8:44
Speaker 1: let's just use last numbers. We can all live with that, right, Yeah, alright,
8:50
Speaker 1: So if you want to landfill in your municipality, Um,
8:54
Speaker 1: you're going to have to start with a proposal by saying.
8:57
Speaker 1: You can't just go start Yeah, you gotta look around
8:59
Speaker 1: and say we need to landfill everybody. So let's uh
9:05
Speaker 1: do an environmental impact study and let's let's find an area.
9:09
Speaker 1: Let's find a lot of acreage. Um. Because I think
9:13
Speaker 1: they use the North Wake County Landfill in Raleigh, North
9:16
Speaker 1: Carolina as a their go to example in this article.
9:19
Speaker 1: So our how stuff works started two and thirty acres
9:22
Speaker 1: of land, about seventy acres of which is the actual landfill.
9:25
Speaker 1: So you're gonna need a lot of land, and you're
9:27
Speaker 1: gonna have to do an environmental impact study to determine
9:30
Speaker 1: a lot of things. How much land do you have, Yeah,
9:34
Speaker 1: if there's enough of it? Sure? Um. What type of
9:37
Speaker 1: soil you have and what bedrock is underneath it? Very important? Um?
9:42
Speaker 1: How water flows over the surface of the site. Yeah,
9:45
Speaker 1: does it flow right down into the river? Does it
9:47
Speaker 1: not perfully? Right? Right? Exactly? Um. And then the uh,
9:51
Speaker 1: the impact it's going to have on local wildlife. Sure,
9:54
Speaker 1: and if it's an historic site, like an archaeological site, yeah,
9:58
Speaker 1: you don't want a landfill on an archa a logical site.
10:00
Speaker 1: What's funny is if you, um, if you go back
10:03
Speaker 1: and look at the Fresh Kills landfill, which is one
10:06
Speaker 1: of the biggest in the world New York, right yeah,
10:09
Speaker 1: and it wasn't even the only one for New York.
10:11
Speaker 1: It's closed now, right, yes, And the guy who created
10:14
Speaker 1: the high line, James Corner, is um creating a park
10:19
Speaker 1: there out of it, like a massive, massive park. Interesting.
10:23
Speaker 1: I think like three times the size of Central Park.
10:25
Speaker 1: Are they calling it Cancer Park? I think they're avoiding that. Okay,
10:29
Speaker 1: I don't remember what it's called. I wrote a really
10:31
Speaker 1: interesting New York magazine article about it now it really
10:35
Speaker 1: well written and clever, um, where it's basically like, that's awesome,
10:38
Speaker 1: that's awesome, this guy's got this great vision. And then
10:41
Speaker 1: but it's a landfill, you know. I'm sure at the
10:44
Speaker 1: end of the day it's still bared garbage exactly. Um. Alright,
10:48
Speaker 1: So when we talked about the bedrock, that's really important
10:51
Speaker 1: because if you have what would you really want to
10:53
Speaker 1: try and prevent when you're building a landfill or operating
10:56
Speaker 1: landfill is um leakage and seepage. That was like that
11:00
Speaker 1: that was the big thing. When the e PA came along.
11:03
Speaker 1: You started saying, like, you can't just bury your trash
11:05
Speaker 1: anywhere there's groundwater, dummies, and like, as trash decomposes, it's
11:10
Speaker 1: not just like old coca cola and banana peals. When
11:13
Speaker 1: those things break down and start mixing together, some really
11:16
Speaker 1: horrific stuff like ammonia gets produced, and that gets into
11:20
Speaker 1: the groundwater and all of a sudden you're drinking ammonia.
11:23
Speaker 1: That's bad for you. Yeah, that's called the it's called
11:25
Speaker 1: leech eight is the liquid um or garbage juice is
11:29
Speaker 1: in other words that that's a better way to say it,
11:31
Speaker 1: because that defines it all in one go, right, and um,
11:34
Speaker 1: the whole point of the of the dry Tomb landfill
11:38
Speaker 1: was to do everything you could to prevent this garbage
11:42
Speaker 1: that you're burying from reaching the the water table. Right,
11:47
Speaker 1: So you study that bedrock. If it's too fractured, it's
11:50
Speaker 1: not gonna work because it's going to seep into that junk.
11:52
Speaker 1: No mines, no quarries because they probably already have broken
11:55
Speaker 1: through the water table before they were abandoned. That's right.
11:58
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you also need to be
11:59
Speaker 1: able to say wells in various points, so you can't.
12:02
Speaker 1: The bedrock needs to allow for that as well. It's
12:05
Speaker 1: like you're really looking for a specific area. When we
12:08
Speaker 1: talked about the water flow. Of course you don't want
12:10
Speaker 1: it flowing near wetlands or any kind of rivers or streams.
12:13
Speaker 1: That's a no brainer. Fresh Kills is an old marsh
12:16
Speaker 1: land that they just filled the marshes and lakes in
12:18
Speaker 1: with garbage. What did they name it? That is that
12:21
Speaker 1: the area or like that, Kills is a Dutch word
12:24
Speaker 1: for stream. Okay, because I was about to say that's
12:26
Speaker 1: like the worst name for anything totally unless it was
12:30
Speaker 1: a butcher. But it really means fresh stream, fresh kills, charcooterie,
12:35
Speaker 1: fresh stream garbage dump. Yeah, that makes sense. Now what
12:39
Speaker 1: does kill mean stream a Dutch word because you've heard
12:43
Speaker 1: it like fowery means really yes, that would be fish stream.
12:48
Speaker 1: That makes a lot more sense now fresh kills. I
12:52
Speaker 1: wondered about that for years now, you know st alright, so, uh,
12:58
Speaker 1: local wildlife, they're going to really study that to see
13:01
Speaker 1: what kind of UM. You know, it can't be in
13:04
Speaker 1: the area of a migrate my migratory route for birds,
13:08
Speaker 1: or like a nesting area a k marsh like Fresh
13:11
Speaker 1: Kills landfill. That's right. And then once you figured all
13:16
Speaker 1: this out and they say, oh wait, wait, you skipped
13:18
Speaker 1: over the historical or archaeological site. Well you already mentioned
13:22
Speaker 1: that like Fresh Kills landfill. Okay, apparently I think it
13:27
Speaker 1: was stated at all wrong. Huh. Henry David Thoreau said
13:29
Speaker 1: that UM arrowheads were the surest crop to dig from
13:33
Speaker 1: the ground at Fresh Kills before it was a landfill. Yeah,
13:37
Speaker 1: so archaeological site, wet land and very close to UM,
13:42
Speaker 1: the groundwater seeping right into it. Unbelievable. UM. And I
13:47
Speaker 1: believe there was a large bunny rabbit population that they
13:51
Speaker 1: just dumped it right on top of UM. So once
13:55
Speaker 1: you figured out this is not Fresh Kills is actually
13:57
Speaker 1: a great spot, you're gonna get your permits you and
14:00
Speaker 1: raise your money. UM. This one in North Carolina costs
14:03
Speaker 1: about nineteen million to build cheap. That seems a little cheap,
14:07
Speaker 1: but I don't think that one's brand new. Yeah, that's
14:09
Speaker 1: probably from the nineties, and then you probably have a
14:12
Speaker 1: public vote because you're probably gonna be using public dollars
14:15
Speaker 1: and no one will know that that vote takes place,
14:19
Speaker 1: and you're going to get a landfill built. Boom. Yeah,
14:23
Speaker 1: they just build it in the night. All right. So
14:26
Speaker 1: let's take a little break here and we will talk
14:28
Speaker 1: about building that landfill right for this. All right, So
14:50
Speaker 1: you've got your permits, you've got your money raised, it's
14:54
Speaker 1: time to build a landfill. Yeah, you shouted down the
14:57
Speaker 1: old guy at the board of come a shioner's meeting.
15:00
Speaker 1: Who objects, old man, McLean the tree hugger. Let's recycle
15:08
Speaker 1: all our garbage, crack pot. So we will list the
15:13
Speaker 1: basic parts of a landfill and then go over them
15:15
Speaker 1: in detail. How's that sound. It sounds like a bulleted list.
15:18
Speaker 1: You've got the bottom liner system, you've got the cells,
15:22
Speaker 1: you've got the storm water drainage, you've got the leech
15:25
Speaker 1: eight collection system a K garbage juice methane collection system,
15:29
Speaker 1: and you've got the cap the covering. Actually, that's the
15:35
Speaker 1: opposite of what you want to happen with the cap
15:37
Speaker 1: covering system. You don't want to kaboom. So start with
15:40
Speaker 1: the bottom liner man. Again, this is the original purpose
15:45
Speaker 1: of all landfills that are in use today, unless they're bioreactor.
15:50
Speaker 1: Although it's it's part of it. But this dry tomb landfill, Uh,
15:55
Speaker 1: it's the main part is the bottom liner. So they
15:59
Speaker 1: use a very thick like um sometimes a hundred million
16:03
Speaker 1: millimeter thick, very sturdy like polyethylene liner synthetic plastic that
16:10
Speaker 1: they line the whole place with, puncture resistant, strong able
16:15
Speaker 1: to withstand a lot of trash being dumped on it.
16:17
Speaker 1: And just to be a certain they'll often use some
16:20
Speaker 1: sort of like um fabric matt that they'll lay down
16:24
Speaker 1: first and then put the the the liner on and
16:28
Speaker 1: then put another mat on top of that to help
16:32
Speaker 1: prevent it from being punctured by rocks or garbage. Rocks
16:35
Speaker 1: below or garbage above. Everything's trying to puncture this mat. Yeah,
16:39
Speaker 1: it's a moisture barrier, right, But that liner is the
16:42
Speaker 1: main component, the the initial component of the landfill. That's right. Next,
16:47
Speaker 1: we have our cell, and a cell is basically the
16:52
Speaker 1: day's garbage. Yeah, it's the day's garbage that you dump
16:54
Speaker 1: in there. Um, you compacted airspace is is key. That's
16:59
Speaker 1: where uh, the more airspace you have the more trash
17:02
Speaker 1: you can bury, so they want to keep it as
17:04
Speaker 1: compact as possible. And they do this by rolling over
17:07
Speaker 1: it with bulldozers and flatteners and rollers and graters, and
17:12
Speaker 1: they smush it down. And a cell is um, it's
17:14
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a hole in the ground. Apparently
17:20
Speaker 1: in the North Carolina landfill that how stuff works went
17:22
Speaker 1: to back in the day. A cell is fifty ft long,
17:25
Speaker 1: fifty ft wide, fourteen ft deep, and all the trash
17:29
Speaker 1: is put in there. Like you said, there's heavy equipment
17:31
Speaker 1: that rolls over and compacts it. And did you read
17:34
Speaker 1: the Atlantic um article I sent you about Pointe Hills.
17:39
Speaker 1: They said that there's an added benefit of compacting trash.
17:42
Speaker 1: Not just doesn't take up less space, it also kills
17:46
Speaker 1: about fifty of the rats in there. Oh good. And
17:49
Speaker 1: then at the end of the day, when the cell
17:52
Speaker 1: is filled, they cover it over with about six inches
17:56
Speaker 1: of dirt that they then compact. That kills the other
17:58
Speaker 1: fifty of rats where the other half goes. And that
18:01
Speaker 1: makes that type of landfill what's called the sanitary landfill,
18:04
Speaker 1: which means rat free, because they're all dead, they're squished,
18:10
Speaker 1: or they're suffocated by this process of compacting and covering
18:14
Speaker 1: over and the By covering over this stuff every day,
18:17
Speaker 1: you protected from being blown away by the wind, by
18:20
Speaker 1: being carried away from by the rain. You protected from
18:23
Speaker 1: being dug up by coyotes or trash scavengers. Right. Um,
18:27
Speaker 1: and so that's what makes it a sanitary, dry tomb
18:31
Speaker 1: landfill is what we've described so far. That's right. And
18:35
Speaker 1: to get this thing as compact as possible, they're gonna
18:38
Speaker 1: weed out things like that huge roll of carpet that
18:40
Speaker 1: you took out of your uh, nineteen seventies bedroom, or
18:43
Speaker 1: that mattress that has a you know, brown stained like
18:48
Speaker 1: looks like the map of Asia from the sixteen hundreds, right,
18:50
Speaker 1: because you raised that one Lady from Hell, raiser from
18:54
Speaker 1: the dead. Yeah, so we're gonna take out all that
18:56
Speaker 1: stuff and make it um you know, all the yard
18:59
Speaker 1: ways to make it as compactable as possible. And then
19:02
Speaker 1: um that is compacted at a rate depending on where
19:05
Speaker 1: you are, about pounds for cubic yard. Yes, so boom,
19:09
Speaker 1: flat dirt is over it now, and now we need
19:12
Speaker 1: to worry about drainage. Yeah. Basically, once you created that cell,
19:17
Speaker 1: you've just completed a portion of the landfill. Right, yes,
19:20
Speaker 1: for the day, um, one day's trash. It's so weird,
19:23
Speaker 1: it's like yours Tuesday's whole, right, sixty five days a
19:28
Speaker 1: year and those well, those UM the Points Hills people
19:31
Speaker 1: in that Atlantic article, we're saying that they in retrospect
19:35
Speaker 1: figured out that they could have predicted the economic crisis
19:39
Speaker 1: because about a little less than a year before it happened,
19:43
Speaker 1: the UM they would fill up their days cell by
19:46
Speaker 1: like one pm and closed. Now they stay up until
19:49
Speaker 1: five and it's not even necessarily full. So they know
19:52
Speaker 1: it's like a huge downturn in building materials and consumer waste. UM,
19:58
Speaker 1: like a year or two before where the actual crisis
20:01
Speaker 1: happened before they collapse. Well, you know what the the
20:03
Speaker 1: old saying, if you want to know the state of
20:07
Speaker 1: the country's economics, go to a landfill. It's a good thing.
20:11
Speaker 1: That's what I think. Jimmy Carter first said that. So
20:15
Speaker 1: you don't want liquids in that solid waste as much
20:18
Speaker 1: as possible, So they test the solid waste for liquids,
20:22
Speaker 1: and um, if it's not liquid, then it's fine to
20:25
Speaker 1: go in the hole, right, So they put that in there,
20:27
Speaker 1: and the other way that they want to keep liquids out.
20:29
Speaker 1: And again, what they're doing is trying to prevent garbage
20:32
Speaker 1: juice from forming. That's right, is to um have storm
20:35
Speaker 1: raw storm, water, runoff, drainage going on, so all of
20:41
Speaker 1: the First of all, you never want a flat landfill. Ever,
20:45
Speaker 1: you want to mount it at least slightly. You never
20:47
Speaker 1: want a plateau um, and so you want the water
20:52
Speaker 1: to run off, and then when it runs off, you
20:54
Speaker 1: want to collect it into pipes. You want to basically
20:56
Speaker 1: create an eves system like you have on the roof
20:58
Speaker 1: of your house, and then shoot it all down to
21:00
Speaker 1: some concrete gulches or if French strains at your house
21:04
Speaker 1: roos shepparls. What else? Uh gutters yeah, habitasher right, um,
21:14
Speaker 1: and all that goes to a collection pond. That's right. Uh,
21:18
Speaker 1: this is not the kind of thing you want to
21:20
Speaker 1: swim in. What they wait for there is for um
21:24
Speaker 1: the suspended particles to kind of settle on the bottom,
21:27
Speaker 1: and then they will test the water for those the
21:29
Speaker 1: garbage juice, and depending on how nasty it is and
21:34
Speaker 1: riddled with chemicals, they'll go from there. They may um
21:38
Speaker 1: treat it like regular wastewater. Well that depends like if
21:41
Speaker 1: they if just the storm water shows some leech, they'll
21:45
Speaker 1: send it to a leech a collection pond. If it's
21:48
Speaker 1: if it turns out to just be normal stormwater, then
21:50
Speaker 1: they'll let it flow out of there. That's trying to
21:53
Speaker 1: like whatever river or whatever. Yeah, and sometimes it's gravity.
21:56
Speaker 1: Sometimes they use a pump. It depends on the lay
21:59
Speaker 1: of the land. But if it's leech, they have a
22:01
Speaker 1: separate collect collection system for leachate. Yes, which is um
22:05
Speaker 1: basically perforated pipes that are running through the cells and
22:10
Speaker 1: the leach it is gonna happen, Like they try and
22:12
Speaker 1: prevent it as much as possible, but there is no
22:15
Speaker 1: hole in the ground where you're not gonna have any
22:16
Speaker 1: garbage juice right exactly. Um, So they collect that garbage
22:20
Speaker 1: juice as it's forming, and they run it out to
22:22
Speaker 1: a separate collection pond that's the leech a collection pod.
22:25
Speaker 1: And if you don't want to swim in the stormwater
22:27
Speaker 1: collection pond, like you don't even want to look at
22:29
Speaker 1: the leech collection pod. So again they let the particles settle,
22:34
Speaker 1: they test the concentration of the leech a in the pond,
22:37
Speaker 1: and then they send it either to an on site
22:41
Speaker 1: uh water remediation system like a wastewater plant, or else
22:46
Speaker 1: they send it to like the local city or county
22:48
Speaker 1: wastewater plant for treatment. Yeah, boy, we gotta do one
22:51
Speaker 1: in wastewater treatment at some point. You got to talk
22:53
Speaker 1: about fascinating you poop in the water and eventually water.
23:01
Speaker 1: It's pretty remarkable of what we've learned to do. Uh
23:03
Speaker 1: you know yep. So Uh. The other big thing that
23:07
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier was methane, and that is a byproduct
23:11
Speaker 1: that's a gaseous byproduct um of anaerobic decomposition. And about
23:19
Speaker 1: fifty of your your gases coming out of this thing.
23:22
Speaker 1: We're going to be a methane about carbon dioxide and
23:26
Speaker 1: they say a little bit of nitrone, little bit of oxygen.
23:28
Speaker 1: I guess not even enough to be a percentage point,
23:30
Speaker 1: almost negligible. So methane is um can be dangerous and hazardous,
23:35
Speaker 1: but it can also be very useful. So these days
23:39
Speaker 1: they're finding ways to harness this methane and use it
23:41
Speaker 1: as fuel, right, which is pretty great. Yeah, it is
23:44
Speaker 1: very great, and actually there's a lot of money in
23:47
Speaker 1: it they're finding too, especially if you go to the
23:49
Speaker 1: trouble of building an on site power plant where you
23:53
Speaker 1: just basically extract the methane from the landfill gas l
23:56
Speaker 1: f G is what it's called. And then you burn
23:58
Speaker 1: the methane. You pow. You can create electricity. Right, you
24:02
Speaker 1: can power a turbine and boom, there's electricity being produced.
24:05
Speaker 1: And actually at Fresh Kills, New York City gets ten
24:08
Speaker 1: million bucks a year from a company that has exclusive
24:11
Speaker 1: rights to extract the methane from this place. It's pretty great.
24:14
Speaker 1: Ten million. That's not something it needs that UM and Lincoln,
24:17
Speaker 1: Nebraska did a pilot study in two thousand and ten
24:21
Speaker 1: and found that they could make about three hundred thousand
24:23
Speaker 1: dollars a year from methane collection from their landfill. That's awesome.
24:27
Speaker 1: So if you're a city that's trying to like figure
24:29
Speaker 1: out ways to at least keep your landfill open, methane
24:34
Speaker 1: collection I call my my worst days l f G.
24:37
Speaker 1: Actually when I have landfill gas, it's the worst worst.
24:43
Speaker 1: Uh So, then you've got your covering and your or
24:46
Speaker 1: your cap is the final piece of the puzzle here
24:49
Speaker 1: and UM it depends on what kind of a landfill
24:53
Speaker 1: it is. Generally it's going to be covered with six
24:55
Speaker 1: inches at least of compacted soil. And that's to keep
24:59
Speaker 1: you know, rats and stuff out the ones that aren't
25:01
Speaker 1: killed and getting back into the trash. But um, like
25:04
Speaker 1: we said earlier, airspace is key. So like six six inches,
25:08
Speaker 1: if they could find a way to make that one inch,
25:11
Speaker 1: that would be much better. And so they've been experimenting
25:13
Speaker 1: with that too, like UM paper or submit emulsions instead
25:18
Speaker 1: that you just spray on top instead of that six
25:20
Speaker 1: inches of soils like a quarter inch. Yeah, and then
25:23
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have five and three quarters
25:25
Speaker 1: extra inches for trash, straight inches for more trash. That's
25:28
Speaker 1: a lot man speaking about this, which we are right
25:32
Speaker 1: now absolutely uh. And then eventually though, when you it
25:36
Speaker 1: will have a permanent cap um some sort of polyethylene
25:39
Speaker 1: cap on top. And so even after it's closed, that
25:43
Speaker 1: points hills Um landfill outside of l A that was
25:47
Speaker 1: the focus of the Atlantic article or fresh kills out
25:50
Speaker 1: in New York when that when it's closed, you don't
25:53
Speaker 1: just walk away from a landfill. You plant stuff on it. Well, yes,
25:57
Speaker 1: you have to plant stuff on it because when you
25:59
Speaker 1: cover it over with dirt, you want to plant something
26:01
Speaker 1: with um, a low roots system that won't go into
26:04
Speaker 1: the landfill, but we'll still hold the dirt and place
26:07
Speaker 1: to prevent it from a roading. So like grass cut zoo,
26:11
Speaker 1: not trees. I don't want to plant trees. But you
26:13
Speaker 1: also have to stick around and leave some people behind
26:16
Speaker 1: to monitor the groundwater for temperature changes. Change in temperature
26:21
Speaker 1: suggests that it's um. There's leachate that's intruded. Yeah. Sometimes
26:26
Speaker 1: you can see the leech seeping up through the ground,
26:29
Speaker 1: and that means that there's you need to address an issue.
26:32
Speaker 1: It looks like the Beverly Hillbillies thing where Jed shot
26:36
Speaker 1: and missed that rabbit and instead oil comes up. That's
26:39
Speaker 1: what leech kind of looks like, bubbles up. But you
26:42
Speaker 1: have to keep an eye on this place for decades
26:45
Speaker 1: and decades and decades. Yeah, I think they sit in
26:49
Speaker 1: here like thirty years. It needs to be maintained and
26:52
Speaker 1: monitored at least at least I think that's definitely in
26:55
Speaker 1: the line. So we'll talk a little more about UM
26:57
Speaker 1: operating a landfill and how to well, I guess alternatives
27:02
Speaker 1: lamb fills is a way to put it. Yeah, right
27:04
Speaker 1: after this, So Chuck, let's say you are Tommy Landfill
27:30
Speaker 1: and you want to fulfill your birthright and open your
27:32
Speaker 1: own landfill, Tommy Landfill. And you got everything all set.
27:35
Speaker 1: You got the municipal bonds. Old man, what was it, McTavish, mcvain,
27:41
Speaker 1: something like that, McLean McClean. He he's been shouted down.
27:45
Speaker 1: You've got the place open. How are you going to
27:46
Speaker 1: operate a day to day? Well, what you're gonna do
27:50
Speaker 1: is it's gonna be open to a couple of different things.
27:53
Speaker 1: It's going to be open to the um municipality that
27:56
Speaker 1: collects the trash. Of course, it's gonna be open to
28:00
Speaker 1: militian companies, construction companies, and many of them, including the
28:04
Speaker 1: one I go to, is open to you and me. Okay, um, so,
28:08
Speaker 1: let's say I'm doing work on my house, which I've done,
28:11
Speaker 1: and I end up with a bunch of junk in
28:12
Speaker 1: the back of my pickup truck. I think it's called
28:14
Speaker 1: construction waste. Yes, construction debris, which I try and re
28:18
Speaker 1: use as much as I can. But you still end
28:20
Speaker 1: up with construction debris. Did we do like a green
28:22
Speaker 1: Renovation episode? Once? Yeah? I think so, And um, I
28:27
Speaker 1: will drive my truck out there to the landfill into
28:29
Speaker 1: Cab County and I will drive up onto a platform.
28:34
Speaker 1: Is the first very first thing you do with a
28:35
Speaker 1: it's a way station. Does it make you go up
28:37
Speaker 1: on two wheels? And then you drive through the landfills
28:40
Speaker 1: just on two wheels, off the stuck carn um. Then
28:45
Speaker 1: you drive up on the way station and they weigh
28:47
Speaker 1: your truck or your car or whatever with full of trash.
28:51
Speaker 1: You go dump it. There's gonna be various stations. Um,
28:54
Speaker 1: there's like a recycling station. There's a here's where a
28:58
Speaker 1: yard waste goes. Kissing boo, just a kissing booth. Uh,
29:02
Speaker 1: there's a dunk tank, you know, the traditional Catholic school
29:08
Speaker 1: carnival um at the one into Capp County there's actually
29:12
Speaker 1: free mulch and um compost if you want to pick
29:16
Speaker 1: up stuff, which is kind of neat. But then eventually
29:19
Speaker 1: you will be directed to, uh, here is your dump
29:22
Speaker 1: and I pull up my truck at dump it in
29:24
Speaker 1: a big dumpster. Then that dumpster has then taken to
29:27
Speaker 1: the cell. I imagine I don't follow the route, but
29:31
Speaker 1: that's what's supposed to happen. Does it make that bugs
29:34
Speaker 1: Bunny conveyor belt song? Yes, someone wrote in and had
29:37
Speaker 1: a bunch of song was Powerhouse. Yeah, Powerhouse. If you
29:40
Speaker 1: look up, was that the one that you were thinking, Yes, totally. Um.
29:44
Speaker 1: I can't remember the composer's name, but it was the
29:47
Speaker 1: twentieth century composer who I think it was a old man.
29:49
Speaker 1: It was something something Quintet. Yeah, I can't remember the
29:53
Speaker 1: guy's name, but anyway, look up to something something Quintet, powerhouse,
29:58
Speaker 1: and then I think it starts about Oh my us
30:00
Speaker 1: a minute and a half in you'll be like, yeah,
30:01
Speaker 1: that's it, ye dat dude, d d D you know
30:06
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Yeah. Absolutely, when I heard it, it
30:08
Speaker 1: it was unmistakably looney Tunes. So I dump on my garbage, um,
30:14
Speaker 1: and then I drive back out onto another platform, and
30:18
Speaker 1: then they rewagh my truck. They do the math, and
30:21
Speaker 1: then when they weigh it, um, they charge you a
30:23
Speaker 1: tipping fee yeah, which is usually a per ton amount,
30:27
Speaker 1: right yeah, and so you know it's not that much money.
30:30
Speaker 1: Like I'll have a truck full of junk, go dump it,
30:32
Speaker 1: and then it's like ten or twelve bucks. Of course,
30:36
Speaker 1: it depends on how heavy the junk is, but in
30:38
Speaker 1: my case, it was always you know, uh, light wood
30:42
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. That I couldn't reuse nails. So
30:45
Speaker 1: that's that's basically everything we just described as a dry
30:49
Speaker 1: tomb landfill, right, that's right. But as as UM companies
30:54
Speaker 1: like waste management and local municipalies have figured out, like, hey,
30:58
Speaker 1: there's actually money in this rotting garbage. They've been looking
31:02
Speaker 1: into ways to get more methane out of it. And
31:04
Speaker 1: what they figured out is that you don't want a
31:08
Speaker 1: dry tomb. You want to kind of moist a little
31:11
Speaker 1: wet to moisture. Yeah, I was really surprised that this
31:16
Speaker 1: isn't how it's done by now, because you can They said,
31:19
Speaker 1: you know, what could take decades and a dry tomb
31:21
Speaker 1: to break down, you can take just a few years
31:24
Speaker 1: if you just add a little water, just a little
31:26
Speaker 1: bit of water, Like there's already about ten to fifteen
31:28
Speaker 1: percent moisture in a dry tomb, no matter how much
31:31
Speaker 1: you try to keep it out, there's gonna be about
31:33
Speaker 1: ten to They figured out that if you add another water,
31:38
Speaker 1: you're going to greatly increase anaerobic um decomposition and it
31:43
Speaker 1: can be leech aated. It's not like they have have
31:46
Speaker 1: spring water exactly. It can be that stormwater you're collecting
31:49
Speaker 1: it can be leech eight um, it can be gas
31:52
Speaker 1: condensation from the gas that's coming off, and and basically
31:56
Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're speeding up that anaerobic decomposition
32:00
Speaker 1: that's already going on. So these things are breaking down
32:03
Speaker 1: the organic stuff, the banana peals and the grass clippings
32:06
Speaker 1: and all that stuff that's already in there. They're not
32:08
Speaker 1: breaking down the styrofoam, at least not very quickly, so
32:11
Speaker 1: that stuff is still going to be left behind. But
32:14
Speaker 1: that's kind of that bury and walk awayte mentality as well. Still,
32:18
Speaker 1: but at least the the density of your um landfill
32:22
Speaker 1: is going to increase tremendously as all that other stuff decomposes,
32:26
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have the added benefit of a lot
32:29
Speaker 1: more methane production. Yeah, and a lot more methane and
32:32
Speaker 1: a lot shorter time span. So what they've had to do,
32:35
Speaker 1: because this is basically accelerated production, is create collection systems
32:41
Speaker 1: that can handle They can't just throw the old methane
32:43
Speaker 1: collection system in there that's used to collecting slowly, but
32:47
Speaker 1: surely they have to do something collect a lot and
32:49
Speaker 1: a little bit of time. Yeah, because they used to
32:51
Speaker 1: collect the methane and that they would harvest it and
32:54
Speaker 1: then burn it, which is sounds horrible because you're just
32:57
Speaker 1: releasing all that stuff into the atmosphere, But it's better
33:01
Speaker 1: than just vending it. Just vending methane. Methane is a
33:04
Speaker 1: um much more potent greenhouse gas than even like c
33:09
Speaker 1: O two like by far, so you don't want to
33:12
Speaker 1: just vent that stuff, so you burn it off. But
33:14
Speaker 1: even better is if you're going to burn it, at
33:16
Speaker 1: least use it to power stuff. So by adding just
33:19
Speaker 1: a little bit of water you can create this. You
33:22
Speaker 1: can accelerate the anaerobic decomposition. And since the anaerobic decomposition
33:27
Speaker 1: is what makes the landfill like a moving, living, evolving pile,
33:33
Speaker 1: once that's done in ten years, you've got all the
33:36
Speaker 1: methane you're going to get from it, the things that
33:39
Speaker 1: can settle anymore, and you can walk away without monitoring
33:42
Speaker 1: it for the next fifty years. Yeah. So the bioreactor
33:45
Speaker 1: model seems like far and away the wave of the future,
33:48
Speaker 1: right for sure. Um, I guess it's just a matter
33:51
Speaker 1: of like building more of them. Yes, so we got
33:54
Speaker 1: a couple of more things here before we close. For sure,
33:57
Speaker 1: this is very interesting. One Neto thing that I didn't
34:00
Speaker 1: I think I knew about Giant Stadium, but I didn't
34:02
Speaker 1: know that. I just heard Jimmy Hoff was buried there. Well,
34:05
Speaker 1: he might have just been in the in the landfill.
34:09
Speaker 1: Apparently some sports arenas like Kemiskey in Chicago, Mile Haun
34:12
Speaker 1: Stadium in Denver, Giant Stadium in New Jersey built on
34:16
Speaker 1: landfills because they're cheap, cheap land and some speculation that
34:22
Speaker 1: it might give athletes cancer. Yeah, apparently there are a
34:25
Speaker 1: lot of Giants players are several um that came down
34:30
Speaker 1: with cancer that one of the linebackers, Harry Carson, told
34:33
Speaker 1: The New York Times, Um, it makes you wonder what's
34:36
Speaker 1: going on around here, referencing the fact that it was
34:38
Speaker 1: built on an old landfill. Yeah. And apparently there was
34:41
Speaker 1: a game at Kemiskey Park in Chicago where there was
34:46
Speaker 1: a I think a short stop like ran into a
34:51
Speaker 1: piece of metal sticking up from the diamond and like
34:55
Speaker 1: started like kicking away and didn't realized it was getting
34:58
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger, and the ground crew came out and investigated,
35:02
Speaker 1: and it was Jimmy hoffa right, It was a copper
35:04
Speaker 1: cuttle from the landfill they had moved its way up.
35:08
Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? Yeah, so they had to dig it
35:10
Speaker 1: up and then refill it. Unbelievable. I'm sure that was
35:13
Speaker 1: a lovely break for the fans. Yes, because around so
35:17
Speaker 1: fast moving that they needed they needed to breathe. Uh.
35:22
Speaker 1: I read an article on Slate called go West garbage
35:25
Speaker 1: can exclamation point, and the main gist of it is,
35:31
Speaker 1: when are we going to run out of space? It's
35:33
Speaker 1: a great question. You can't keep bearing trash right? Um?
35:37
Speaker 1: Apparently you can, because what they're doing now is there
35:42
Speaker 1: there are fewer landfills than ever before. They're making these
35:44
Speaker 1: huge landfills. Yeah, in nine six there were close to
35:50
Speaker 1: seventy dumps in the US, and by two thousand nine
35:54
Speaker 1: there were just under two thousand. Decline in less than
35:58
Speaker 1: twenty five years, and so essentially what they're creating of
36:02
Speaker 1: these super landfills. Um, which is kind of cool, fewer landfills, right,
36:08
Speaker 1: But what's the problem, Um, do you know stinkier landfills?
36:14
Speaker 1: What the problem is is you're now trucking garbage sometimes
36:18
Speaker 1: five miles away to dump in the landfill because your
36:22
Speaker 1: state may not even have one. So then they're looking
36:24
Speaker 1: at you know, how much c O two is used
36:27
Speaker 1: to do that. Um, like, is it really greener to
36:30
Speaker 1: have fewer landfills and truck your garbage on a train
36:33
Speaker 1: or in a truck every day? Uh? And they basically
36:37
Speaker 1: say they don't really know which is which is more
36:41
Speaker 1: environmentally friendly. Um, in different states, apparently there's a lot
36:45
Speaker 1: of money in it. Different states have way more room
36:49
Speaker 1: than others. And then some states don't even want that stuff.
36:52
Speaker 1: Of course in the Northeast, like Massachusetts are like, we
36:54
Speaker 1: don't want landfills than our state, Rhode Island. Same way
36:59
Speaker 1: they send a to Springfield, they send it to Kentucky. Well, no,
37:02
Speaker 1: remember the Trash Commissioner episode. Yeah, he accepted other states
37:07
Speaker 1: to waste. Yeah, that's exactly what's happening. Um, let me see,
37:11
Speaker 1: Arkansas has enough capacity for more than six hundred years
37:15
Speaker 1: of trash without any more facilities being opened. There you go,
37:18
Speaker 1: We'll just send it all to Arkansas, whereas Rhode Island
37:22
Speaker 1: only has twelve years remaining. New York State only has
37:24
Speaker 1: twenty five years of capacity left. Send it to Arkansas.
37:28
Speaker 1: So that's what they're doing. Um, Kentucky is ty dollars
37:32
Speaker 1: per Ton making about six billion dollars a year, Ohio
37:36
Speaker 1: twenty one billion dollars a year of available landfill spaces
37:40
Speaker 1: because Ohio knows how to negotiate. That's right, the Buckeye State,
37:44
Speaker 1: that's right. Don't tread on me White, that's New Hampshire Party.
37:50
Speaker 1: I think it's either New Hampshire Vermont, one of those.
37:53
Speaker 1: You know New Hampshire's is lived for your die right
37:56
Speaker 1: and make their inmates make those license plates. Yeah. No,
37:59
Speaker 1: don't tread on me was in a state motto. And
38:01
Speaker 1: I think that was just flag with the cut up
38:03
Speaker 1: snake right that the Tea Party adopted. Remember did they
38:07
Speaker 1: adopt that? Yeah? So yeah. If you see a bumper
38:10
Speaker 1: sticker with one of those flags on it, they're not
38:12
Speaker 1: just like a history buff or anything. Yeah. Or if
38:14
Speaker 1: it says who was John Galt? Yeah, and that that
38:17
Speaker 1: that'll tell you something about the driver of that vehicle.
38:20
Speaker 1: Was that a Tom Cruise movie? No, John Galt was
38:22
Speaker 1: the main character, and Atlas shrugged. Oh yeah, I ran,
38:25
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of Jack Reacher. If you want to know
38:29
Speaker 1: more about landfills, you can type that word into the
38:32
Speaker 1: search bar how stuff works dot com And uh, I
38:34
Speaker 1: said search bar. So it's time for listener mail I'm
38:38
Speaker 1: gonna call this, uh, very sad email, but uplifting at
38:45
Speaker 1: the same time. Hey, guys, two weeks ago, my amazing
38:47
Speaker 1: and wonderful father in law, Walter passed away. We had
38:50
Speaker 1: to drop everything, my husband and son and I and
38:53
Speaker 1: fly from Florida to Germany, where he lived. He's been
38:56
Speaker 1: in my world for twenty four my fifty years, and
38:58
Speaker 1: I was so sad. I felt like I was going
39:00
Speaker 1: to throw up all the time. When we arrived in Germany,
39:03
Speaker 1: walking through the front door of the family home without
39:05
Speaker 1: him there was one of the hardest things I've ever
39:07
Speaker 1: had to do. It was and is devastating. My husband
39:10
Speaker 1: and youngest son and I sat in a dark days
39:13
Speaker 1: for days, mixing the crying mixed with crying and feeling lost.
39:18
Speaker 1: Always listen to podcasts while I run, though, which I
39:20
Speaker 1: do every day, And after ten days of being there
39:23
Speaker 1: in Germany, I finally decided to cue up one of
39:25
Speaker 1: your podcast while running. It was Blood Types. I laughed
39:28
Speaker 1: for the first time in two weeks out loud. Guys.
39:32
Speaker 1: It was so nice to laugh again, and it really
39:33
Speaker 1: opened the door for me. I realized that we as
39:36
Speaker 1: a family are going through was so tough, but I
39:38
Speaker 1: also started to realize that if I could laugh, then
39:40
Speaker 1: I could heal. Uh. Yesterday, my husband and I, still
39:44
Speaker 1: in Germany, decided to go uh to walk to the
39:47
Speaker 1: nursing home where my aunt lives, which is two and
39:50
Speaker 1: a half hours through the forest, up and down hills.
39:53
Speaker 1: I love this family. By the way, walking to the
39:55
Speaker 1: nursing home like that, we of course, brought our thirteen
39:58
Speaker 1: year old son, Oliver, who has mon After about twenty
40:00
Speaker 1: minutes of walking, I handed on my phone and he
40:03
Speaker 1: listened to UH three Stuff you Should Know podcast along
40:06
Speaker 1: the way and is now hooked. He loves you guys.
40:10
Speaker 1: My husband and I had a badly needed quiet, get
40:12
Speaker 1: in touch with nature walk as a result, and we
40:14
Speaker 1: didn't have to listen to our sun moan at all.
40:17
Speaker 1: Uh more, long walks are in his future as long
40:19
Speaker 1: as I have you guys on my phone. And Oliver
40:22
Speaker 1: also asked me along the walk, wait a minute, mom,
40:25
Speaker 1: These guys get paid to do this. And when I
40:28
Speaker 1: said yes, I saw a sparkle in his eye. I
40:33
Speaker 1: love this email boom that is from Jennifer and Jennifer
40:37
Speaker 1: that is awesome. I Uh those mean the most to us. Yeah,
40:41
Speaker 1: I mean that was a great top not to email,
40:43
Speaker 1: great email and there was more to it even I
40:45
Speaker 1: had to leave out some of it from link Jennifer right,
40:48
Speaker 1: Jennifer and Oliver her Son and she doesn't even anonymous
40:52
Speaker 1: husband anonymous husband named not But yeah, thanks a lot, Jennifer.
40:56
Speaker 1: We appreciate you letting us know that that's a again
40:59
Speaker 1: great email. And uh, if you out there want to
41:01
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41:07
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