Latest / Sessions Canceled / Villainous Traits 2: Bloodlines: Ep. 46

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Villainous Traits 2: Bloodlines: Ep. 46 · Sessions Canceled

• 0:10
  The party Gotti Sakai into another world SWAT team at level
• 0:13
  1 and died. So sessions cancel, welcome to
• 0:17
  whatever. This is the sessions canceled
• 0:20
  podcast. I'm your host with the most Grog
• 0:23
  Zach Braff a card Percy. Klaxon, that guy in the corner.
• 0:26
  Hey, you over there mostly people call me back.
• 0:30
  What is up? I'm here with only like how you
• 0:32
  could tell that you were reading your own Discord.
• 0:35
  Username. This has gotten more and more
• 0:43
  chaotic every time. Every time I'm walking but I'm
• 0:48
  here with the boys as always and with mr.
• 0:53
  Josh, yes, I am also here contemplating.
• 0:56
  Why? Matt reference, the 80s D&D
• 0:58
  cartoon. Now mr.
• 1:01
  Isaiah tub and mr. Sam, back from the war, we
• 1:06
  pulled them out. We got him.
• 1:09
  If I like being called mr. But I do be like that.
• 1:13
  I've been called mr. Frederick up quite a while, it's
• 1:15
  kind of weird for when they use my work title you know, on my
• 1:21
  name for that but sergeant major chief and that is, that is in
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  fact. A military rank.
• 1:27
  Yes. General after all, I just I just
• 1:31
  kept saying words, yakkung, the words was Sarge.
• 1:38
  Don't. Okay.
• 1:39
  Yeah. You through and through army
• 1:46
  terms in their corporate is not that's Air Force and
• 1:50
  intervention officers, which is very different, isn't your
• 1:54
  technical rank or Sergeant, isn't that?
• 1:57
  It first sergeant is a position, not a, right?
• 2:03
  But yeah, before we get into all that, That's like I'm moving on.
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  I don't care. Anyways, Josh, you have some
• 2:13
  words for the viewers. Before we begin.
• 2:15
  I got some words for you, pal. This is here.
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  Matt were throwing down right now.
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  Coming to your house. I'm at your front door.
• 2:20
  I'm knocking on the door. I'm coming with a bat.
• 2:23
  Hmm, this isn't very WWE. WWE becoming with the chair
• 2:30
  there. You you even have your theme
• 2:31
  music playing? Come on, sure.
• 2:33
  I didn't have my team. I have two panties - why do you
• 2:35
  need to find theme music before I Find my theme, music tho
• 2:40
  beautiful, reminder. If you like the stupid chaos,
• 2:42
  you're hearing right now, which I you probably don't but if you
• 2:45
  do, give us hit the follow and or subscribe button on the
• 2:48
  platform, your listing on and be nice.
• 2:51
  All right, Matt back to you. It was the play-by-play on the
• 2:54
  first down, but they German because I'm me and Isaiah, we
• 3:00
  had our own villains episode other.
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  We got the full Squad back, I want to do villains to Electric
• 3:06
  Boogaloo back-to-back. The revenge and saying, I want
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  to talk about bad guys, because the rich to fun.
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  You're good talk about billions. Cool.
• 3:16
  Villain Gear Rising Revengeance. That's right.
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  But there are some attempts. Yeah.
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  No. I don't think you've ever
• 3:26
  worked, I know, right? Yeah.
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  She's just like Michael verdict on that.
• 3:35
  Just stay in the time in the bed.
• 3:40
  Yeah, yeah I know. I don't know.
• 3:42
  A Josh, if you got a chance to listen to the episode me and
• 3:45
  Isaiah had, he was good, it taught.
• 3:47
  Yes, because I hope it wasn't all of them.
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  So I listen to it when it came out to.
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  I remember anything? No, not really dick ride would
• 3:53
  remember anything either. If I listen to it, I will be
• 3:55
  honest. You ever since that I do, listen
• 3:57
  to, I don't remember and we recorded them.
• 3:59
  So I've heard employ, you know, What have your you know, General
• 4:08
  thoughts on like, you know, bad guys in particular doesn't have
• 4:12
  to be tabletop related yet but just like we're you much like me
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  by growing up and you know watching Disney movies and being
• 4:19
  like yeah I like the bad guys. They're cool.
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  And then building obviously explodes for dies like Loops.
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  Are my thoughts on bad guys and bad guys.
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  They're bad guys. I don't know.
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  Bad guys, bad. All right.
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  I don't know how I like, it seemed on villains.
• 4:53
  All right, so let's ignore because that's literally like
• 5:03
  Saturday morning. And Adventure tourists like,
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  hey, I'm also a kid and I'm, I just hate everyone.
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  Like, I fucking hate everything and everyone and I'm realizing
• 5:18
  that I'm being manipulated by adults or adult de Jim on
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  whatever that I think it, I think plots was.
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  It was actually myotismon, all along that.
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  That was the better one, but that still adventure.
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  Oh, right. I forgot.
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  That was the end of He's into. Yeah, I I keep differentiating
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  between season one and season two even though they're
• 5:40
  technically the same. Yeah, so yeah.
• 5:42
  It's the yeah, the series. Yeah, yeah, okay.
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  So season series 2, Season 3 at the weird poopy thing and my
• 5:51
  bobbio Zaman. Everyone's favorite so edgy
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  that's, But stammers math. Wait.
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  What? This is either gonna be an
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  amazing beautiful. This is the motorcycle has
• 6:16
  leather jacket. I stammers, I don't have enough
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  Ichiban. Jamal was from too much.
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  I guess, I remember enough to counter and, or This fucking
• 6:30
  conversation in this episode, I saw a tweet recently that's
• 6:34
  literally was like, what's a conversation started?
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  Like thing that someone can talk to you about and you will just
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  shut the fuck up about. I was like the gym on say,
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  opiates amounts of anime. So you have a couple of them
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  that you could be there. Why are you?
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  Okay? Is what is happening?
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  We put type out because we're talking about Digimon villains
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  because like it's that thing where it's like, It's a kids
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  show. It's like oh this is real fucked
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  up and dark like I'm he's melons have somewhat okay motivations
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  but they're also just fucking evil and of the first series
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  movie what was it? What was the was the one or a
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  virus? Yeah the one that was going to
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  set off a nuclear reactor re going to no no launch nukes oh
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  is that what it was? They were going to launch nukes.
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  Yes and caused World War 3. Like it Tau that is some evil of
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  a next-level face, like, listen, you know, you can have your
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  Cults and shit and indeed the, you know, that's fine.
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  What about the virus that's going to set off the nuke.
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  So picture this, a whole group of mine flare.
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  So I just want to activate magical, Arcane Focus.
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  I that will erupt? And blow up your planet.
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  You have to stop them. There you go, free campaign.
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  For everybody to use, you're welcome, you're welcome.
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  It does actually I'm I don't even know where we are anymore.
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  Probably once II know but like there's some there's a lot going
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  on there. I-i'm a steal.
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  The, huh? I was just gonna say, man, I
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  don't even know your I know. I usually clown on you for
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  having General broad questions, but that question was genuinely
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  so broad. I did not know how to answer it.
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  So I just actually like I actually didn't know how to
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  answer that one. So it's kind of like something
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  the first series that I thought that's kind of what I was hoping
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  for honestly the first thing I like villains to.
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  Yeah. But like when I say war is bad,
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  guys? Yeah.
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  We're like when I say like a bad guy or a villain, what's the
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  first thing that comes to your mind?
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  Josh. I mean anything I mean right now
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  I guess because of recency bias. Thanos pops into my brain but I
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  don't okay that's cast on it doesn't really mean anything.
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  I don't like I mean I like that now so I'm not like I'm not like
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  super into him, he just popped into my brain I think it's still
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  good example. He's no cakes.
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  There's some good, skip some good, some bad.
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  I think a villain now that I've got I just okay.
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  That one too. I know.
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  This is like how do you has villains?
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  That's hold on, huh? The post that was like, if
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  you're on Twitter and you see someone's profile, picture is
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  Char aznable from gundam and it's going to be something not
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  trust here whatsoever. Have person is a villain if
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  they're if their profile picture is Char aznable being a fucking
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  idiot trustworthy you take some that one right there.
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  Yeah I remember that. Alright and we'll Allen's good
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  take I mean I'm trying to think of Villa and I really, really I
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  I mean this is gonna be one of those things where I can't think
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  of it and then someone's gonna often, they mention something
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  it's gonna die, I'm gonna scream emerge in 20 minutes.
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  It's right there, I guess gentlemen because we're right as
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  I were you gonna say before though?
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  Oh what I think about a villain I don't think I have like one
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  specific bill in that comes to mind, but whenever I think of
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  villains, like the talk that I had with, at last time we did
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  this, which is like, what kind of villains do, I like, right?
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  Because you can pretty much separate it into like the to
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  separates, right? Where there are.
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  Let's put like will call like three main categories of like
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  deep complex villain the, you know, the I'm evil because I
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  want to be evil. I'm Lex Luthor or I'm an agent
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  of chaos. Fuck the rules.
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  I like setting fires as much like the three online now, I
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  guess. Yeah, yeah.
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  I mean kinda although, yeah, I guess it'd be like waffle.
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  No, we're not doing that. We're ignoring what bastards
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  that did not going down while Isaiah like your discussions
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  better. He's doleful.
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  No, we're not doing it. Agent of chaos, villains.
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  I think they're for the most part pretty boring because it's
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  just sort of seems like a My dad's cooler than your dad
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  contest, but doing fucked up shit.
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  So you're gonna you're not a casca fan no, no, okay, no kefka
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  had a master plan. Let's go with like he came off
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  as I'm evil because I want to set fires but he was just
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  playing the really long game and he was like, I'm just deep
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  really long game and you're like, oh, length of a chair PG,
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  long game. Yeah, I so I really liked cats
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  will last when he first got. Like, when, you know, when he
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  first shows up in six question mark.
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  Yeah, 66 me. And then at the end when he's
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  like, Like and I will put all my evil plans into motion is like
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  Africa. You already won.
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  It's like no, no. That was phase or like it would
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  your God. Now what do you mean those phase
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  one? That was the that was the right.
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  He's like no, that was just episode motherfucker, you know,
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  it's funny. Speaking of final, speaking of
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  Final Fantasy two villains, I really like one of them.
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  You would maybe not expect as much one.
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  You would expect I really like Arden in Final Fantasy 15.
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  There was a there's a lot of holes in him in his character in
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  terms of not even not even his character.
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  There's a lot of holes in, like the writing of 15 because it's
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  sort of An Unfinished and or chop a little bit of narrative,
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  like the chops together - it looks like because they got
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  books in it but it all ending and the way it played out I
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  liked a lot in 15 but another villain.
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  Yeah, it was good, very good payoff but another villain who
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  like I mean obviously we can't even argue with Emmett's.
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  Elk is like Like yeah there are some really good evidence else
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  is like great, a billy for a multitude of reasons.
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  I mean looking so good. I won't go off about that.
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  I won't go off on the M&M, it Fanboy Club but I will let you
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  know I'm in that club. I mean yeah let me said I do
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  like complicated villains. I think there are interesting
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  stories. They can tell but there's this
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  thing that's been going on recently where you can't just
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  let motherfuckers Evil. They have evil but there's needs
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  to be like a deep complicated reason why they were evil as I
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  would. If I was like, Yeah.
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  So you're right. Yeah, everyone wants to write
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  the morally. Gray villain these days and I
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  get it. But there is definitely an
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  argument to be made for the like I'm evil.
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  Because I'm evil eye character for sure.
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  Like, so, yeah, like Sundown or a metal gear rising exactly.
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  I am not Armstrong to Armstrong is just fucking evil.
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  He just wants to do badge, like, okay.
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  Like I got, he does nefarious Deeds like, right?
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  So he did to like, take a new thing.
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  The new Puss in Boots movie, A Owner.
• 13:55
  Steve at guys. Just fucking evil.
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  He's just even. Just evil unequivocally evil.
• 13:59
  He's a children's Macy and fucking great there.
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  I had everything I wanted growing up.
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  My family was great to me. I just want to be evil.
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  You're like, has Enos another good for your face?
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  You villain. Yeah.
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  Yuge looking to go, fair enough. I mean, so I will say though,
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  Armstrong's a little weird. He's sort of evil for the sake
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  of it, but he does also have some like I think I'm doing the
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  right thing energy because he's a politician and he's sort of
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  gaslighting. Yourself into thinking.
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  It's a good idea. I'm not, I'm not gonna get into
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  the whole politics thing. I mean I was like him being a
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  politician is what makes him think he has a good argument,
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  right? Like it's sort of his it's how
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  he justifies himself via pie sources I made at the fuck are
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  applying well, so I do want to add.
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  There's another thing I want to mention so Armstrong is an
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  eleventh-hour villain, don't know what that means.
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  Yes. All that you know that one means
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  I'm assuming that's like, you know, villain who only shows up
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  at the end. Has plans at the end and base.
• 14:55
  You have to stop him before the world blows up or some shit.
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  Sorta an eleventh-hour. Yeah.
• 14:59
  It kind of an eleventh-hour villain is just a villain who
• 15:02
  shows up at the very end, and you haven't seen it all up until
• 15:05
  that point and but they were like secretly behind everything.
• 15:09
  The whole thing usually Armstrong is straight up an
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  eleventh-hour villain. He literally rocks up in quite
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  literally the last hour of the game and yet everyone really
• 15:20
  loves him and I really love him, but most of the time I fucking
• 15:23
  hate it. With our villains, it make me
• 15:25
  for sure. So mad, excellent example, fuck
• 15:28
  you, Far Cry, 3. All right.
• 15:31
  Okay. So yeah, to begin reason why
• 15:33
  11th Hour villains usually suck is because they're usually not
• 15:37
  likable, they're just hello, I am the all-powerful.
• 15:39
  God blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah.
• 15:42
  Punch punch punch. Yeah.
• 15:43
  You know. But that's usually how they're
• 15:45
  handled or Armstrong is like one is a very relatable person
• 15:50
  because especially in places like America where we have met
• 15:54
  Be strong in your life. You probably met in Armstrong
• 15:57
  and receiving Armstrong on TV. As you already have this idea
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  and you're like oh I get it. Yeah, it's beautiful.
• 16:06
  And the Final Fantasy for its kind of like oh eleven thousand
• 16:10
  villain. Why isn't nine have that 29 has
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  even worse? Because it's only the final boss
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  heard, literally just shows up. Listen, okay.
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  And you know what, the worst part is, it's not that hard of a
• 16:22
  fight. I have also heard that Out.
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  It's okay. I don't know.
• 16:25
  I kind of will come to bat for nine and one major way, which is
• 16:31
  it is an eleventh-hour villain. It doesn't all around the theme
• 16:35
  of the game. It does fun.
• 16:38
  Sorry. No I do that.
• 16:40
  That's pretty much what it was. A just revolves around the theme
• 16:42
  of you know life. Yeah choosing for yourself.
• 16:46
  Like it makes sense and but it just feels more like a Victory
• 16:52
  lap than everything else. It's analog boss because it's
• 16:56
  not hard like if it and especially because like the way
• 17:02
  that it's set up and I'm not going to talk about it in such a
• 17:05
  way because I think, Final Fantasy 9 has a great narrative
• 17:08
  up until until I'm like, well, so kind of because the problem
• 17:13
  with nines writing is that the character art ends way too
• 17:20
  quickly for certain characters, so they just kind of exist.
• 17:23
  There are certain point Um and at the end because you know,
• 17:27
  it's the day in story up until the end.
• 17:31
  You know, you you you know, it's still zidane story, you're still
• 17:35
  learning about him. You're still, you know, there's
• 17:37
  all these plot twists and relevancy like you basically get
• 17:40
  your fucking ass kids, right? Before the final Boss by the
• 17:44
  final box essentially and you're like, oh this could be a hard
• 17:48
  fight and you know, it's not like it's just, I don't know, it
• 17:53
  feels I'm Darrell. Even if I don't think she
• 17:55
  actually has a bit of a there's quite a few Final Fantasy games
• 17:58
  that have kind of awkward eleventh-hour villains and I
• 18:02
  really, really want to talk about 14 but I don't want to
• 18:05
  spoil and Walker but Sam you know what I'm talking about.
• 18:08
  There's and Walker. Did it in such a fashion that
• 18:13
  it's pretty good. I just mad that I have was
• 18:20
  saying that the last boss is an 11th Hour.
• 18:24
  One is that? And it is a guide.
• 18:27
  It isn't kind of isn't kind of is a bit special because my .11
• 18:31
  we've known the character for a while and to it's an MMO.
• 18:34
  So the expansion style system doesn't like really, but also
• 18:38
  their very blood flow with that very much because it's like, oh,
• 18:42
  you know, we haven't known this character very long, but we've
• 18:44
  been playing this game for eight fucking years.
• 18:45
  You can't know that character for that log.
• 18:47
  If they were intending this expansion, I will say too,
• 18:50
  though the thing about end Walker is it It's sort of an
• 18:54
  eleventh-hour villain, but at the same time, it's sort of, is
• 18:56
  it? Because there was build up, we
• 19:00
  just didn't know. It was built up until after, and
• 19:03
  then you look back and you go, oh, it was point.
• 19:06
  I get the whole is lot of. Look, there's a lot of big brain
• 19:08
  plays and then Walker that ended up working out whether they were
• 19:12
  planned ahead of time or not. I got no clue, but they worked
• 19:14
  out pretty well. I mean, there are some things
• 19:15
  that I was like yeah. There's a couple things that
• 19:18
  come in little fast. Well there are a few things that
• 19:21
  are like really on the nose? Yeah.
• 19:23
  Like You're introduced to something very early in the
• 19:27
  expansion are like wow I can't wait for this to be relevant.
• 19:29
  Yeah, some other things that aren't seeing either has I need
• 19:38
  to do as the eleventh hour villain because you don't really
• 19:41
  find out what the fuck's going on until very late in the game.
• 19:46
  You're just like, yeah, fuck the government.
• 19:48
  Yeah, up until your, you figure out other things?
• 19:51
  I feel like 13 has a weird 11 that were villain because the
• 19:54
  last Game is one 11th Hour. Villain that like grew very try.
• 19:58
  The fuck is that? But what the fuck is the ones
• 20:01
  named? Basically God.
• 20:03
  Yeah. What's real?
• 20:04
  What's her name? But you got no idea.
• 20:08
  Oh, I remember I hated it. F hurt.
• 20:12
  I didn't say 3000. Was it then?
• 20:21
  I know boss lady thats 13-3. Final Buck was funny.
• 20:28
  Final Fantasy 10 Kyle Boone of Elsa, fuck?
• 20:32
  Okay, that's a dumb name real quick.
• 20:34
  I just wanted to come up to bat for nine because it did
• 20:38
  something that I really liked and I realize I actually just
• 20:40
  realized like yesterday or Monday that I really liked it.
• 20:44
  Is it had the same thing happened in a 40K Pavel.
• 20:48
  I was reading. It's the Oh God, you set it free
• 20:52
  villain. Oh, is that that's what 9 is,
• 20:55
  right? It's like you fight.
• 20:56
  The villain who you thought it was the villain the whole time
• 20:59
  and then the villain sets the actual final villain free and he
• 21:02
  goes, wait, wait! That's what happens.
• 21:04
  And you go, oh, you're a fucking idiot, aren't you?
• 21:06
  And, and he goes, oh no. Oh actually, I really do like
• 21:10
  that because it, that one's kind of a cheat, right?
• 21:13
  Because it doesn't really need to be learned as much because
• 21:17
  they kind of were talking about like, like, you know, they
• 21:20
  called it. Like the great chaos I think and
• 21:24
  in nine and they're like, oh you know, we have to be where the
• 21:27
  great chaos or would the great Nemesis whatever the fuck it was
• 21:30
  called? The kind of look through hints
• 21:31
  at like, you know, there is this like all powerful evil in the
• 21:36
  world that you have to like avoid at all costs and then the
• 21:39
  villain sets it free and then he was like, oh oh you were being a
• 21:42
  literal and they're what what did you think we were being and
• 21:46
  he was like, metaphorically the fuck.
• 21:49
  Why would she just a suit? I think one of the Tails games
• 21:54
  did the same thing as stereo, so but here's the thing, Isaiah
• 21:58
  that's kind of you. You, you are sort of nudging and
• 22:02
  hinting at it. I think that's really the trick
• 22:05
  is nudge it because like, you could sort of make the argument
• 22:08
  that vecna and critical role is an eleventh-hour villain, but
• 22:11
  the whole way up until they get, not the whole way.
• 22:14
  But for a lot of the campaign up into that point, you know, Matt
• 22:16
  Merchants kind of like hint hint nudge nudge.
• 22:18
  This other guy that's doing nothing.
• 22:19
  Weird foreshadowing. It's a great, you know, writers
• 22:22
  tool in your tool for DmC. Use I think as I don't like 11th
• 22:26
  Hour villains, but if you're gonna do it, you yes.
• 22:28
  Some foreshadowing on your eleventh hour.
• 22:30
  Villain be nice. It's just something.
• 22:34
  So I'm gonna think there's an 11th Hour villain.
• 22:36
  Yeah, don't do Far Cry, 3. You don't default do like, oh my
• 22:42
  God, I want to talk about the soba.
• 22:44
  Okay, you but I none of you are going to read this but made met
• 22:47
  Sam might. So it's boilers Sam.
• 22:51
  Correction, I told you in a text, we're good, boilers to any
• 22:54
  of our listeners. So there's a whole thing in the
• 22:58
  book of reading. It's the book on the necrons,
• 23:00
  the good old Lobos Kelly, boys, and they go to this planet in
• 23:04
  the mood. For those who don't know, this
• 23:05
  is Warhammer nonsense. Yeah, this is warmer 40K, the
• 23:08
  main characters or our trays in the infinite, aka the Pokemon
• 23:13
  master and oricon the the guy who could like turn back time at
• 23:17
  will and the bush displays gross.
• 23:20
  Yeah, yeah. That's good but they are, they
• 23:23
  are best enemy in the book. The book takes place over the
• 23:27
  course of of And 11,500 years and the whole time, they're on
• 23:36
  this planet and they're trying to steal like a map like a
• 23:38
  secret treasure. They find out is like an ancient
• 23:42
  like the necrons are basically. And so like we're going to call
• 23:45
  my pharaoh and I go we gotta find this Pharaoh guy because he
• 23:49
  might be the secret to Turning us back into.
• 23:51
  Not robot people and the whole time like throughout the
• 23:54
  chapters. You hear like the song of
• 23:57
  serenade serenades name of the planet, they're on.
• 23:59
  And then you find out at the end that the song of serenade was a
• 24:03
  distress like it was a distress signal at was saying don't come
• 24:08
  to serenade bad shit is here and then the whole time you're like
• 24:11
  well what's there is it the flare virus which is like a
• 24:13
  weird virus that infects the necrons and makes them go.
• 24:16
  Crazy is a dish the Destroyer plague which is another virus
• 24:19
  they have that turns them into like crazy nihilists and it
• 24:23
  turns out. No it's Akutan.
• 24:26
  It's like an intact Catan chard which is like they're there.
• 24:29
  Evil gods that they destroyed millions of years before and
• 24:34
  when they open it before they open it or I can the future see
• 24:39
  or dude is like don't open that door, there isn't disease and an
• 24:42
  evil in that door don't know, I know I wanted to open it but now
• 24:45
  I know I don't know what's in there but I know it's like the
• 24:48
  end of everything. If you open this fucking door
• 24:50
  please, and then he gets his ass kicked because he's not fighting
• 24:53
  back. And then when trays and opens
• 24:55
  the door and it's Akutan. And he goes, I fucked up.
• 24:59
  I fucked up real bad. They there's a mark where it so
• 25:03
  when I say that that trays and has pokeballs, I mean it, he
• 25:06
  literally has like, any planes in like small pyramids that he
• 25:10
  throws at people and he's like, oh, cabal, you're not know.
• 25:13
  And they were like, we need an army trays and what do we do?
• 25:17
  And he's like, that's not an army.
• 25:19
  I brought five and he literally Frozen Forks Eldar other fucking
• 25:24
  neck. Runs a T-Rex.
• 25:28
  I'm not kidding. She's was a T-Rex at it in the
• 25:32
  middle of the fight and everyone stops what they're doing.
• 25:35
  Even the aliens and they just like, yo, is that a fucking
• 25:38
  T-Rex while and they just go back to fighting lung.
• 25:44
  Cancer is the best you liked Drazen, but You Rags, apparently
• 25:49
  orders on that planet, 10,000 years ago when they were in
• 25:55
  stock? That's a lot of time.
• 25:57
  Fuck. Yeah.
• 26:00
  It's great. But yeah just the the O God.
• 26:02
  You woke it up. I love that Trope.
• 26:04
  I don't know why it's not a particularly clever Trope
• 26:07
  either. No, not really.
• 26:08
  I just really like it because it's like it's the shit where
• 26:11
  the villain who's been. So cocky the whole time is like
• 26:14
  what have I done? And then the villain fucking
• 26:16
  protagonist is doing the Nic cage like raised eyebrow things.
• 26:21
  I think in like dumbass if if I were to if I were to go to bat
• 26:27
  for that Trope because you know, I mean every trope Because
• 26:30
  something about it is useful for some reason, right?
• 26:33
  Like, yeah, you don't get a Trope, if there's not some sort
• 26:36
  of writing message for it, I think the the fun activity of
• 26:41
  that one is oh God, you woke it up.
• 26:45
  Gives you a really easy justification for why every hero
• 26:50
  from across the dimensions as out, not all now shown up to do
• 26:54
  their super big fuck. You energy, it gets chat attack
• 26:57
  all at once and also to have no, Moral quandaries about it right?
• 27:00
  Like yeah you know like it's the Avengers endgame seen
• 27:04
  justification like I know I'm using marble again but like why
• 27:09
  do you something else? You don't you can't have
• 27:12
  everything. It's hard to justify why, every
• 27:14
  single superhero who's ever met each other.
• 27:17
  Even for two seconds would show up.
• 27:19
  But if there's the giant Universe sending threat, well,
• 27:22
  you know, and also, you could beat it up and no one has to
• 27:25
  feel bad about it. Although, there's, that's a
• 27:27
  little different because they a nose is like a character.
• 27:29
  Our dress opposed to like an evil entity, but if you make it
• 27:32
  like an evil dimensional extra dimensional entity, you just is
• 27:36
  everyone could just beat the shit out of him.
• 27:37
  Nobody has to feel bad. You could do your big super mega
• 27:39
  come at me out. And you just, you just gross the
• 27:41
  shed, dude, nobody has to fear me.
• 27:43
  This is it critical role in vecna, right?
• 27:44
  They did the same thing. Yeah, I mean, they did kind of
• 27:47
  do it in Marvel, right with Kang.
• 27:49
  As it was like, oh, I'm not, I'm the good Kang, and it's fucking
• 27:53
  domed and then, he's like, oh no, you woke up.
• 27:55
  He disappears, they went what. Yeah.
• 27:59
  So yeah, they just mean they did kind of do it.
• 28:02
  So yeah, I think that's the utility of it as like a good
• 28:05
  excuse for everyone to go. Fucking Buck Wild and have no
• 28:08
  moral quandaries about going fucking Buck Wild.
• 28:13
  Damn you had another. You had another, you're going to
• 28:15
  mention. Its fate related.
• 28:19
  Don't know if you want me to look.
• 28:21
  I mean it was, it was it when they woke up to your mama.
• 28:24
  I know it's actually the end of chapter 1.
• 28:27
  He's really every single thing to me but okay, we met when they
• 28:31
  were like when what the fuck is that losers?
• 28:34
  I have is like, I've I know know like like like all I guess it's
• 28:39
  a part one and part 1 oh yeah. All the servants come around and
• 28:48
  they're like, hey, you know, we we formed such a good Bond here
• 28:52
  that we can just summon ourselves reasons.
• 28:56
  Don't worry about it. Okay.
• 28:58
  You think I'm due there super attack and get punted halfway
• 29:01
  across the planet literally. And I character does literally
• 29:05
  get punted and they just disappear.
• 29:07
  You're like now that was okay. It was a lot of time.
• 29:15
  You just spent on on a Trope that I initially started the
• 29:17
  conversation with saying, I don't like yeah.
• 29:22
  Weird how that happens. Yeah, we've had a lot of
• 29:24
  thoughts, with a lot of things. She had a lot of examples.
• 29:28
  Don't do 11 our villains in your game, though.
• 29:32
  I said, oh God, you woke it up? Yeah, that's kind of, that's
• 29:35
  kind of like a kind of, kind of allude to it, like, you know,
• 29:38
  there's nothing like like, like okay.
• 29:40
  All right, great. For example, you tell your
• 29:42
  players is a good thing they're doing and then the villain goes.
• 29:46
  What the fuck is wrong with? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:49
  And I've turned right. Yeah.
• 29:50
  Turns out the villain destroyed the entire Village because he
• 29:53
  had to for the sake of the entire world or whatever, you
• 29:55
  know. And then oh fuck.
• 29:57
  You woke it up. Yeah.
• 29:58
  You woke it up. It's like, oh, it's, you know,
• 30:00
  it's supposed to be a savior actually, it's kraske.
• 30:03
  Oh, you know what game did that around with rocket launchers?
• 30:09
  You know, what game did that really?
• 30:10
  Well, well, Shadow of the Colossus hmm.
• 30:14
  Because we have the feeling, you are the villain bad guy.
• 30:18
  Spoilers for that game, I guess. I mean, is it broke in his
• 30:21
  kitchen? Yeah, it's not ancient.
• 30:24
  But it's at least 15 years old, the like old It's sucking the
• 30:29
  yes, you are. Literally the villain and cello
• 30:31
  Colossus then you don't know it. Yeah.
• 30:34
  And when you when you when you you are the thing that they wake
• 30:37
  up will you become it? And the good guys went oh God.
• 30:41
  He's the thing that they've that woke up and then we go, don't
• 30:44
  fire. Yeah, exactly.
• 30:50
  Well, I've been this far I guess.
• 30:52
  I mean, the other thing that's really good about cello
• 30:57
  Colossus. Is despite it being a game with
• 31:01
  not a lot of dialogue and not a lot of explanation, you get the
• 31:05
  sense as you're playing it. Like you're doing this to save
• 31:09
  your girlfriend wife question mark.
• 31:13
  But like the whole time as you play through the game at a
• 31:16
  certain point, you start getting the century.
• 31:18
  Like I don't This might be a bit.
• 31:21
  Am I the bad guy? I might be doing drag.
• 31:24
  I think thank you. Cindy the biggest indicator of
• 31:26
  this is that until you attack them.
• 31:29
  It'll do any place. I do not do anything.
• 31:32
  You also like the fact that you die everytime when you kill one
• 31:35
  of them you're like, wait a minute, they're gonna sit there
• 31:38
  like it's a real sad. Wouldn't you be a fuck out of?
• 31:42
  Yeah, well, it's them and they're like, covered in sand.
• 31:48
  Well, you're like, oh, well, you know, This is crazy.
• 31:50
  They only start attacking you. After you show signs of
• 31:54
  corruption. Is they know that what?
• 31:56
  Yeah, it's like. Yeah, it's stormin got to fuck
• 31:58
  his ass up. Yeah, because that is like now
• 31:59
  they why they attacking me at all, because I have these, we're
• 32:01
  back veins all over me. Yeah, I forget which number
• 32:04
  Colossus, it is. But at a certain point they do
• 32:06
  start to attack you on sight. Yeah.
• 32:09
  Thanks. I can't be intact something
• 32:11
  around there. I think.
• 32:12
  Yep. Yo, Shadow cloths.
• 32:14
  Fucking want to tell him really minimal story.
• 32:17
  That's expert way to do it. Uh-huh.
• 32:20
  And you want your villain to be. The other thing about Java
• 32:24
  classes is the villain is. Basically they're the entire
• 32:28
  game. You just don't know any help and
• 32:30
  you like, oh this, this nice dot man is helping me these things.
• 32:37
  Now, what could go wrong? I don't see any problem suitcase
• 32:40
  in the sky. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:42
  Y'all just listen to the giant. Booming voice that comes to you
• 32:46
  when you go to a shrine with the sword and everything They don't
• 32:50
  Grant your wishes long as you go kill these 12 dudes for me.
• 32:54
  Hey click exhales, that's easy and then and then your wish has
• 32:59
  come true. You just become a baby.
• 33:01
  Yeah, you're like, well, I got what I wanted but not in the way
• 33:03
  that I wanted and man this sucks.
• 33:06
  What's your favorite class is fight.
• 33:09
  Oh, fuck. For me, it's hard Birds to
• 33:12
  fight. Oh no.
• 33:17
  I never can tell you what? I can tell you, which one's the
• 33:20
  most terrifying fight is just what you'll feel in the water.
• 33:24
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:26
  I like that. It wasn't even a question.
• 33:27
  Who's Matt? Let me set the scene, right?
• 33:34
  You're not seen it. I've never played.
• 33:39
  Watch like playthroughs and I know the eel fight is is fart.
• 33:45
  Dear listeners. Looked imagine this if you will
• 33:48
  a small underwater Grotto Lake thing, right?
• 33:51
  Yeah. Okay.
• 33:51
  That's fine. There's an icon that nice God
• 33:53
  beam coming down to the hole and you're like, oh well, it's in
• 33:56
  the water, right? Okay, it's fine.
• 33:57
  And then you get in the water and you see this little glowing
• 34:00
  light up and then two more lights.
• 34:03
  Come up here. Like what the fuck is that?
• 34:04
  Oh, it's a horn, all those words eyes.
• 34:06
  Oh, how deep is it? Oh, it's like 60.
• 34:09
  Feet long up. No, okay.
• 34:11
  Yep. Amazingly.
• 34:12
  Basically, if you're one of those people that has like a
• 34:14
  fear of the water. Nah down even though don't do it
• 34:18
  Bud. Like if you had his people has
• 34:21
  like a fear of like sharks way under the water and shit like
• 34:23
  that. Oh boy.
• 34:25
  Oh boy. It's like it's now Ive speedran
• 34:29
  this game and I think that's the most fun.
• 34:31
  One is the sky. Snake guy seems pretty clear.
• 34:36
  Phalanx. I love that one.
• 34:37
  Yeah, that one. Really fun you'll, however, is
• 34:41
  the worst. It's just like, straight out
• 34:43
  because Donna wash, it really bothers.
• 34:46
  And, and the other one, there's two water ones, I'm going to
• 34:48
  lands are, they're both bad, both pretty one because you have
• 34:53
  to control the second one with like it's fucking head teeth or
• 34:58
  whatever. China.
• 34:59
  Don't know it, you'll is just annoying.
• 35:02
  So, if I have like a I just the whole a man.
• 35:07
  Not the first one. Oh no, beating up your mr.
• 35:10
  One in the fucking temple with the underground.
• 35:13
  Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, because you have to climb
• 35:16
  the wall and he can break the wall down so you can fail State
• 35:19
  the level. And if he'd actually do that can
• 35:23
  beat bird was great for me. It's called AV authors because
• 35:27
  our but it dive-bombs you if the jump onto its wing and it flies
• 35:32
  straight up and it like Like the way he animated your character.
• 35:36
  Huh, I said it's good feeling. Yeah.
• 35:38
  Yeah. Was also kind of terrifying
• 35:39
  though, it is. Yeah, but like when you're
• 35:41
  holding on and especially in the remake, when you can see the
• 35:44
  g-force on your character and it's like the fur is like almost
• 35:49
  flat down onto its body and your characters will legs are fucking
• 35:52
  bangle. Her into your life and you're
• 35:55
  like this is Terror but this is awesome.
• 36:01
  Not me. I bring us back, please.
• 36:07
  Yeah, so I have no opinions. I mean, I've I again, I've
• 36:11
  watched a lot of play three. Good, good.
• 36:13
  Look cool. The cougar, good, I eat it.
• 36:16
  It's definitely a game where you have to kind of play to get the
• 36:19
  feeling of it. But yeah, and I understand it's
• 36:22
  one of those for class. No wives you.
• 36:25
  Some people will be like have a game plays bad.
• 36:27
  I don't like wrong, baby. Just can we just don't Bad sound
• 36:33
  like a silly shoot of me, but he's absolutely a very different
• 36:37
  game in terms of control scheme. Other than, you know, you use
• 36:40
  the left thumbstick to clash or whatever.
• 36:43
  Like it definitely feels like your character is just a fucking
• 36:47
  schmuck. With the way the controls are
• 36:50
  it. Had like, it's not bad, like you
• 36:52
  can Master those controls pretty easily.
• 36:54
  Like I've done the speedruns heel is called hydrants.
• 36:58
  I mean, that's advising, you know, their names are all pretty
• 37:01
  on the net. You know what it is?
• 37:03
  It's the meme where it's someone's like I played show.
• 37:04
  The class is open the gates. The gameplay suck about the gay,
• 37:08
  it's the games. Mainly it was the horse
• 37:09
  sections, open the gates a little bit little.
• 37:12
  Yeah. But I guess the try and bring
• 37:16
  this back and I'm sort of table top with one t RPG podcast of
• 37:21
  sports, because we've all we are all dungeon Master's game.
• 37:27
  Master Storyteller. Whatever the hell you want to
• 37:29
  call. Hmm.
• 37:33
  What do you guys, feel? Like I'm gonna ask a couple of
• 37:36
  random, like a couple of sessions just fever juice.
• 37:38
  Yes, questions from episode that.
• 37:43
  Me and Isaiah asked a couple. I found.
• 37:46
  Cuz I do want to ask you guys in general, there's like, Sam,
• 37:50
  you've mostly run like modules. Like Josh, you've run a bunch of
• 37:54
  different systems Isaiah, you're currently doing a big-ass
• 37:57
  campaign, I've done. I'm also doing a big ask it,
• 38:00
  what? Well I'm saying I'm just I'm
• 38:03
  just picking one specific thing for everybody to.
• 38:06
  Yeah. But you know where do you guys
• 38:09
  start off when it comes to Like a Villain, Like Your villain
• 38:13
  we're making a villain or like am specifically.
• 38:17
  I know with like a Vernis like she's on the cover of the book.
• 38:22
  I mean with modules, usually the villain is right front and
• 38:26
  center. I think the only one that I know
• 38:28
  of that doesn't is start getting thunder.
• 38:29
  Yeah, yeah. She's technically on the on the
• 38:33
  cover. Not fucking standard.
• 38:38
  Yeah. Is that guy's technically?
• 38:41
  What big-ass beard? It's like there's more.
• 38:44
  There's more Giants on the cover.
• 38:45
  I didn't. Yeah.
• 38:47
  But like, you don't know that Matt.
• 38:49
  Do you know boyish? I yeah, but if you do people,
• 38:52
  what's am saying is not knowing that it makes it kind of not it.
• 38:57
  Don't, he just don't hit the same.
• 38:59
  Literally. Nice to do the big guy.
• 39:03
  He's the villain. She staged the big guy out, the
• 39:05
  big guy? You don't, you don't think
• 39:07
  descent the edge of earnest. I wanted ever in his eye, I need
• 39:11
  help. But I name the game and roll20
• 39:17
  ever Innocent, but like, you know, at least with the modules,
• 39:28
  you know, it's kind of harder to tell who the villain is
• 39:31
  specifically because it's like, oh, you know, Like okay, with
• 39:37
  Crestron it's like what it is fast this this module has been
• 39:40
  out since ages ago. Like can't can't hide that for
• 39:44
  me. It had to spoil too much but uh,
• 39:49
  new dragonlance book with Lords off on the cover.
• 39:53
  I wonder if he's the bad guy, who knows?
• 39:55
  Then he not do that guy Oye. He's want one of them question,
• 40:00
  mark. So I'm assuming I don't think he
• 40:03
  is actually. Oh, is he just bear?
• 40:05
  No, I think Said other, dude. Remember the guy with the buffed
• 40:08
  out of the jacked arms? I think it might be him or Duke.
• 40:11
  No, you know, remember that was a dean DB on specific like
• 40:14
  freebie. They gave out after he's yeah
• 40:18
  he's a He's the bad guy in the first, I don't know.
• 40:20
  Dragonlands fella I'm talking out my ass it doesn't matter.
• 40:23
  It's all good. Yeah but I'll have like you know
• 40:26
  bad guy being on the cover so what does on the cover?
• 40:28
  He's not the bad guy of the Dragon Knights Adventure.
• 40:31
  I'll do a remember somebody saying he isn't for some reason
• 40:34
  but I don't. Sorry Sam.
• 40:37
  I thought you drowned. My point is that, you know, when
• 40:44
  you with module specifically, you either have to try to give
• 40:49
  the villain a little bit more flare or you.
• 40:53
  Yeah. Pizzazz.
• 40:55
  Or you have to like Just really ham it up.
• 41:01
  I don't like I don't know how else because like a lot of the
• 41:03
  times you know who the villain is going into a module.
• 41:07
  Like it's kind of hard not to know English.
• 41:09
  You are yeah like living under our metaphorical Rock.
• 41:15
  Because like especially if you're going to curses straw and
• 41:18
  you're like the villain. He's Nest Rod.
• 41:20
  Yes the yeah, it's good. It's the the scuse me.
• 41:24
  It's the fucking Megamind. Me more.
• 41:26
  What's the difference between a villain in a supervillain?
• 41:28
  Presentation station. Yeah.
• 41:30
  How much it's literally that but like, you know, at that point
• 41:35
  it's playing the villain to they're like just a massive
• 41:39
  amount of like their strengths or, you know, making the
• 41:42
  situation just fucking dire. Are your players sassy?
• 41:48
  Do that? Yes, I don't know how much good
• 41:50
  that's gonna do you. But yes, sassy straw.
• 41:57
  We're sad Straub. He's so sad.
• 42:03
  I, I don't know, my phone a friend, I do.
• 42:12
  I mean you ran a couple of, like, I actually wanted to ask
• 42:15
  you, what made you decide when you were running the Star Wars
• 42:19
  game? Why did you pick the first
• 42:21
  order? Like the bad guys?
• 42:23
  Like, what, what kind of drove you to making them as your Mana
• 42:26
  is, like the antagonist for that game?
• 42:28
  Is that? That's an interesting thing,
• 42:30
  especially nowadays, with whatever, he's they were, the
• 42:33
  Most recent Star Wars villains Russian my mind.
• 42:37
  We've had the empire for a long time.
• 42:39
  So I was like, let's do a slightly different thing but
• 42:41
  also I just wanted to it was less about first order and more
• 42:44
  about wanting to play out, the interlude between episode six
• 42:48
  and seven. Because at the time that we
• 42:50
  played, there wasn't that much information about what happened
• 42:53
  between the two. There's a lot more now.
• 42:57
  So, like layout the interlude. But, you know, it's just Star
• 43:02
  Wars is Star Wars, you have to you kind of have to have sort of
• 43:08
  comically over the top like villain thing going on, you
• 43:13
  know, like Star Wars does the thing where like the, you know,
• 43:19
  the Empire or something along those lines.
• 43:21
  There's like a, there's like a villainous order that's really
• 43:24
  like over the top and then there's one character within
• 43:26
  that. That's like villain.
• 43:28
  You actually give a shit about. So, you know, there's always at
• 43:30
  least a Darth Vader or your dark nilus or your Fucking shit.
• 43:35
  What's his name in the first coat or game?
• 43:39
  Well, who's the guy jumped from August?
• 43:41
  Darth Malgus? Yeah.
• 43:41
  There's always like there's always the main guy who you
• 43:43
  actually care about and then the like silly goobers around of
• 43:47
  feel like I don't know. It's Star Wars.
• 43:48
  I didn't put a lot of thought doing, huh?
• 43:51
  No, yes, all right Malik. Yeah, that Alec and look that
• 43:53
  what it is. Yeah.
• 43:55
  Ball guess is the is the one that the random human being
• 43:58
  trucks with a combat knife. A Amalia.
• 44:00
  I always like yeah that's that's True.
• 44:03
  That's for the Old Republic. Yeah.
• 44:07
  Yeah, I didn't bid. So basically, there was a lot of
• 44:10
  thought put into it. It wasn't for what are your
• 44:14
  current game? Like, what made you decide the?
• 44:18
  They called again, the dues people or not?
• 44:20
  There are always people but I'm calling the police.
• 44:22
  I mean there's sorted easy, boys, sorely red.
• 44:28
  I know you have two players here so you don't have to go and vote
• 44:32
  a friend. I don't I mean this is the
• 44:34
  problem was there was there like no thought process for some
• 44:37
  people it wasn't no thought process.
• 44:40
  I'm just so this is the thing, this is I knew this was going to
• 44:43
  become a thing. I knew we were going to get here
• 44:45
  at some point. I'm not good at this so I don't
• 44:50
  really know. Like I do not, I cannot think of
• 44:53
  a campaign Drive had like a good compelling successful villain.
• 44:58
  Ima Be Honest. So like The dredger pretty.
• 45:07
  It was a pretty like utilitarian decision.
• 45:10
  I wanted to have an and I was like all right I want an enemy
• 45:14
  that they can beat up and murder and brutalize with no remorse.
• 45:19
  So I was like, all right. Cool.
• 45:20
  So like interdimensional demon creatures, that's pretty easy.
• 45:23
  You don't need to feel bad about killing them because all they
• 45:25
  want to do is end Your Existence, more or less.
• 45:28
  Or in this case they want to take over your body and control
• 45:30
  your And then I was like, I also want to be able to use whatever
• 45:36
  stat block I fucking want and not be constrained by types of
• 45:40
  Staff blocks, or certain kinds of monsters.
• 45:42
  I was like, well, I will make them sort of Amorphis sort of
• 45:47
  nondescript creatures. So, I can attach whatever stat
• 45:49
  block I want. And they can just lose into the
• 45:52
  shape, I need them to, you know, is maybe I want to have a fight
• 45:57
  that's like, A gray render and a pit fiend.
• 46:01
  Normally that doesn't make sense.
• 46:02
  If you make them all goopy goopy, who's monsters doesn't
• 46:05
  matter? So that was the other thing and
• 46:11
  I don't know, weird, interdimensional From Another
• 46:15
  World threat. Funtime the time.
• 46:20
  You know what about rebellion? That was an accident.
• 46:28
  It hasn't he was he wasn't going to be a villain and steaming.
• 46:30
  No, he just ended up being a thing because he beat the
• 46:33
  players ass and then he survived.
• 46:35
  So he stuck around for a while and then he kind of became a
• 46:37
  thing. He was Like, I didn't expect, I
• 46:42
  expected him not to be. I was like, I kind of was like,
• 46:47
  well, he might live, but I didn't expect him to turn into
• 46:51
  anything important. But then, I did a little bit
• 46:56
  more with him and then he became slightly more important.
• 46:58
  He's so hot like that, don't even really count him as a
• 47:01
  villain. He's kind of not like antihero,
• 47:05
  yeah, he's like an antagonistic Force but he's not really like
• 47:08
  of blind 100% sort of thing. Yeah, I don't know.
• 47:19
  I don't know. I've tried to figure out.
• 47:22
  I've tried to pin down. But I like it comes to villains
• 47:29
  and trying to figure out how to make it work and I think I have
• 47:33
  a stronger idea now but you know, the campaign's already
• 47:36
  rolling. So it's a little bit harder.
• 47:38
  Although I did, I will say now that the Oracle is a present
• 47:41
  character. I've sort of Push more of the
• 47:45
  angle of what I want is her, because we're so late in the
• 47:49
  campaign, it's not gonna hit as hard as it could have, but
• 47:55
  she'll still be a thing. Yeah, she's there, basically,
• 47:59
  because basis, but for context is I realize I'm talking about
• 48:03
  all this and not giving and no one knows what's going on her
• 48:05
  game. Um, The Oracle formatting
• 48:08
  anyone. Listening is so if you know
• 48:11
  anything about Greek history, they always the Oracle of Delphi
• 48:14
  is what you'll usually hear about.
• 48:16
  But basically, the Greeks had young girls that they turned
• 48:18
  into oracle's and, you know, may or may not have them tripping on
• 48:23
  ball. Tripping drug tripping balls on
• 48:27
  noxious fumes and such to make them quote unquote.
• 48:29
  See the future, and probably wasn't a good practice, but we
• 48:32
  won't get into the moral qualms right now.
• 48:35
  The so the Oracle on my Um, is sort of a reference to that
• 48:39
  practice back in the dizzy. And she, she's the reason that
• 48:44
  the dredge our are trying to kill the players.
• 48:46
  Because she, she looked a little too deep into the void and the
• 48:51
  void stared back and slapped her a crisp high five.
• 48:54
  And then when you're on our team, now lady and she went, oh,
• 48:57
  okay, whoops, she was not strong enough to resist it.
• 49:00
  So she became evil sort of against her will but she doesn't
• 49:04
  think she's evil. Because the dredge don't mind
• 49:08
  control you so much as they influence your thoughts that are
• 49:12
  already present and all the bad and negative thoughts.
• 49:16
  You have they make those the more prominent thoughts.
• 49:19
  So it's not that. They're telling you what to do.
• 49:20
  They're just judging you in a specific Direction.
• 49:22
  So she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.
• 49:24
  She thinks what she's doing is a good idea and it's unfortunate
• 49:28
  that a lot of people are going to have to die for it to work.
• 49:30
  But you know, that's the price of business.
• 49:32
  Sometimes it's kind of that are counting out.
• 49:37
  Old ass. Oh yeah.
• 49:39
  That's the only thing she's a child.
• 49:40
  Just friends are rated game for everybody else.
• 49:43
  Yeah. She's a teenager because the
• 49:44
  oracles were almost always like in the range of 12 to 13 years
• 49:49
  old. so, she's sort of a, not a Child Soldier but like a child
• 49:58
  Politician, almost kinda just a child who got thrust into a very
• 50:02
  important job against her will. How did you know?
• 50:07
  Yeah so my case maybe uppercut 12 yeah um but all that being
• 50:14
  said, I guess we should do story time because maybe this'll, I
• 50:20
  don't know. Maybe there's like a lesson out
• 50:21
  of this one or something as a in our most recent session famine
• 50:27
  as a, you'll know where I'm going with this.
• 50:29
  This also, this will pertain to your question, Matt, a character
• 50:33
  who I didn't necessarily. It was going to be a villain but
• 50:36
  ended up being a pretty good villain and had a pretty
• 50:41
  satisfying ending. And the thing that's kind of
• 50:45
  funny is I didn't really I didn't do it necessarily I
• 50:54
  didn't. So okay, explain the whole thing
• 50:59
  because I said to Isaiah when this, after our session was
• 51:02
  over, I was like I was like yeah I didn't really do anything to
• 51:08
  make that work, I just kind of set the Domino's up and knocked
• 51:12
  him over and I still think that's true but like obviously
• 51:18
  I'm running the game. So I am my hand is in the That
• 51:24
  was a weird. And now I was about to say, my
• 51:25
  hand is in the pie, and I was like, that's a stranger.
• 51:27
  Now, what am I trying to say there?
• 51:28
  Okay, I don't know what to do. Obviously, I'm influencing the
• 51:31
  situation. I'm running the game, but when I
• 51:33
  mean, is that things happened? Very naturally it fell into
• 51:37
  place, and because of player actions and DM actions.
• 51:40
  Yeah, they fell into place. So, I would love to say, I could
• 51:44
  tell somebody how to recreate the situation with this
• 51:47
  character, let them but kind of can't because it just sort of
• 51:51
  happened. So this character was Is Sam.
• 51:55
  Sam started the campaign as a warlock.
• 51:58
  This character was his warlock Patron.
• 52:01
  And, you know, we're like patrons the idea moat for most
• 52:04
  of them, the way I look at them, most of them are like, they want
• 52:09
  a little something out of you. Or they have an agenda, that's
• 52:12
  their own. And, you know, they're giving
• 52:14
  you a crisp high five and some Eldridge blast Powers.
• 52:17
  But, you know, they're gonna want something back in return at
• 52:20
  some point. So I was sort of seeding.
• 52:23
  The idea that lets them was maybe getting a little cocky and
• 52:27
  wanted to, you know, you wanted a pay raise and he wanted to,
• 52:32
  you know, maybe become a God in control, the dead know, like it
• 52:36
  may be what he wanted to do. Maybe you don't normal do that.
• 52:39
  He was getting a little hubristic, but he wasn't like
• 52:41
  evil. And actually even to this point.
• 52:43
  He's still not evil necessarily so much as he was just getting
• 52:47
  overly cocky and arrogant about his position.
• 52:51
  So eventually for for another reason, Sam ditches this Patron
• 52:56
  becomes a pallet and and sort of signs up with the different.
• 52:59
  Interdimensional being the important thing to note here is
• 53:02
  neither of the characters that Sam signed up with our God's,
• 53:05
  but they're sort of their powerful.
• 53:08
  They don't control the world necessarily.
• 53:12
  So he got real mad about that and then Sam when and well not
• 53:17
  just say I'm but the party did some actions that very
• 53:21
  specifically made let them look bad to all of his friends and or
• 53:25
  co-workers, really they're not friends their co-workers.
• 53:29
  And by doing said actions, to make him look bad in front of
• 53:32
  his co-workers, he got really, really mad.
• 53:34
  So, he said, you know what, Leah, which is Sam's characters.
• 53:37
  Are you gotta die because you can't be doing this to me.
• 53:42
  So, he sends after I talked about this a little bit in one,
• 53:46
  unlike two episodes ago, but he sends after Leah, the other
• 53:50
  players, tertiary characters, go and kill him at all thing
• 53:55
  happens and they say, all right, bitch.
• 53:59
  Now we're going to go beat your ass so the players went to his
• 54:02
  house, basically kicked his door in and you know have them
• 54:07
  bludgeoned him with a crowbar. Nice. and it was good and
• 54:12
  satisfying because there was You know, there's a, there's a
• 54:16
  couple of things that really set it up.
• 54:19
  First of all, he's been there since the beginning of the game,
• 54:21
  right? He's been a character.
• 54:22
  Who's been present a whole fucking time.
• 54:25
  He's always been around, you know, always coming up in
• 54:29
  various stages. So you know, you get attached to
• 54:33
  him and by attached I mean like yeah, I guess familiar is
• 54:37
  probably better when you get familiar you don't necessarily
• 54:39
  like or dislike but like the point is you get to know the
• 54:41
  character. And then they do some fuck shit.
• 54:45
  Hurry. And you're kind of like ah well
• 54:47
  that's interesting and then you get to see, you know, there's a
• 54:51
  progression that you get to see. And then finally there's this
• 54:54
  this payout, And also the payout is related to other characters.
• 55:00
  It's sort of shakes up the world in an interesting way.
• 55:03
  There's other ramifications that are going to come from it.
• 55:07
  Obviously the players get some rewards that's kind of a side
• 55:09
  thing but you know it's a thing too.
• 55:12
  And also from like a mechanical standpoint, you know, it was a
• 55:16
  good, he's a lich or his stat block was a lich and he was in
• 55:20
  his lair. So he was like, you know, get to
• 55:23
  do the fun in layer in the Lich fight and he summoned.
• 55:26
  Someone did, you know, buddies to help him out and fight and
• 55:28
  stuff. So it's like A lot of things
• 55:32
  just fell very neatly into place, but if someone were to
• 55:35
  say to me, hey, try and recreate that.
• 55:41
  I, I cannot La planning throughout the entire campaign.
• 55:46
  That's the thing, right? It wasn't playing or not playing
• 55:49
  not playing, but like foreshadowing, things falling in
• 55:51
  the place that you saying isn't even 40 players.
• 55:53
  The it, like, I just sort of was a natural progression.
• 55:58
  I did I did something with the care.
• 56:00
  I did something like, let some did something Sam did something
• 56:02
  the lessons in something, and then say, I'm did something and
• 56:05
  it just kept going back and forth in such a fashion.
• 56:07
  That things just escalated in a very natural way, but I Couldn't
• 56:11
  recreate it again if I wanted to because a it would I need it?
• 56:15
  I need a player. Who's going to cooperate in the
• 56:18
  way that Sam cooperated and B, you need to make sure that
• 56:22
  things. Things need to work out at a
• 56:25
  similar Pace. That's another thing is, I
• 56:27
  didn't control the pacing of the situation anyway.
• 56:30
  It just sort of happened the way it happened and and it just
• 56:35
  like, I didn't, I didn't write it, I didn't twist the knobs or
• 56:37
  dials at all. Just sort of happened at a pace
• 56:40
  that felt relatively like it made sense.
• 56:44
  So if someone were to turn to me and be like, yeah, try it.
• 56:47
  Well, so if that works, then just do it again.
• 56:49
  My response is I, I don't, I don't, I don't know, I don't
• 56:52
  know. How did he Isaac?
• 56:54
  I can try and do it again. Maybe it's like it's a little
• 56:59
  frustrating on my end because One of the few success stories
• 57:03
  with the villain. I can think of I didn't feel
• 57:08
  like I had a very strong handed hurry time over.
• 57:13
  But I figured I would tell that at some point.
• 57:16
  Yeah. Well, what about you Jose?
• 57:22
  I don't know what I said last time.
• 57:24
  So when we said about your, the alligator guy, I guess, because
• 57:27
  like, I don't remember if you mentioned in an earlier episode,
• 57:31
  like, what is the general acid spoiler for your players?
• 57:34
  I don't know. Like what's the big bad of your
• 57:38
  game right now? What's the big?
• 57:41
  I don't think there's a one technically capitalism?
• 57:45
  Yeah. Well now I'm actually not making
• 57:47
  that up. So basically there's no real
• 57:49
  villain what. I I think a big secret concept,
• 57:54
  making a a deep Doolin. What unquote is just the
• 58:01
  character of themselves is not a villain.
• 58:03
  It's just a person with a conflict of ideals.
• 58:06
  Well, okay wait. Hold on pause.
• 58:07
  Before you go and I want to I want to say two things first.
• 58:11
  Yeah. What you're talking about the
• 58:13
  narrative is is man versus nature as opposed to Man versus
• 58:17
  man like the type of conflict which is a Which is a story
• 58:22
  where like yeah, there isn't necessarily a villain so much
• 58:24
  just fighting against like a world.
• 58:28
  But the other thing is you said, like you said deep villain don't
• 58:31
  think villains actually need to be deep, just need to be
• 58:35
  compelling. Well yeah well sure but I know
• 58:37
  what I'm doing. I mean what I mean is like
• 58:40
  there's the like the fun I'm evil because I'm evil villain.
• 58:43
  Would you don't really need to be deep but I wanted to like the
• 58:46
  deeper Handsome Jack villains, I'm saying I don't think you
• 58:51
  need to don't try to don't think of like deep as good.
• 58:56
  I think the best way to work up the villain is that there has to
• 58:58
  be something compelling about and it could be a very, it could
• 59:04
  be a one-sentence thing that makes them compelling but you
• 59:06
  got to figure out what that is or I suppose but I don't want to
• 59:12
  know. I so my way that I'm doing, the
• 59:16
  villain villain really? For this is just, it's just a
• 59:19
  conflict of ideals, right? The first Big Arc of the
• 59:24
  campaign was sort of predicated on the idea that we are, you
• 59:28
  know, now that we're rebuilding after the apocalypse, we're
• 59:31
  getting organized. But there are like, these
• 59:33
  holdouts of like, these crazy Bandits that are doing their own
• 59:36
  evil shit. And then the idea was, oh well,
• 59:38
  what happens if they get or you go?
• 59:40
  Oh, well, that's a, that's a problem or Bandits.
• 59:43
  Then there are civilized people hate like be in like a civilized
• 59:47
  ID. After the apocalypse is kind of
• 59:50
  a level of Fortune that not everybody has and even people
• 59:55
  who try to find it, there's only so much space and Foods probably
• 1:00:00
  do it. Anyway, if it's should they
• 1:00:01
  need? And because of that, you have
• 1:00:06
  people who exist in a life of luxury that nobody has.
• 1:00:12
  Because the idea is that there's this one city that's made out of
• 1:00:15
  like a chain together, ships and boats. and they have all of the
• 1:00:20
  equal ecological stuff going on there because they're very
• 1:00:24
  specifically I setting grow crops on mass on the Wasteland.
• 1:00:30
  I think doesn't, there's no real explanation.
• 1:00:32
  People edit doesn't work. There are fruits.
• 1:00:35
  You can make like, there's like the most common one is something
• 1:00:38
  I made up called Ash fruit Crabapple.
• 1:00:41
  And when you eat it, it literally like cotton candies
• 1:00:44
  out, but it's just dry and Ashy, and gross seal, don't like
• 1:00:48
  eating it. And after the, whole Invasion
• 1:00:52
  thing happened with the bandits people who have all the food go.
• 1:00:55
  Well, we can't. Trust them with our own food
• 1:00:56
  there, bunch of savages of fucking just gonna leave them to
• 1:00:59
  die. And that's that's what were
• 1:01:00
  there at. The players are trying to get
• 1:01:02
  their food back there, trying to our, they're trying to get their
• 1:01:04
  food rights back. And they know and everybody else
• 1:01:07
  in the Wasteland knows is that, if this place cuts off all the
• 1:01:10
  food, we're not even going to need Bandits.
• 1:01:14
  Everyone's going to go to war, but the people often who are in
• 1:01:17
  the highest positions don't get them unless you're more tactic
• 1:01:21
  find it. But the lady who owns that city
• 1:01:25
  is like, no, I get it. We got to get the fact.
• 1:01:27
  What I did was is that join the ship City, the ship City itself,
• 1:01:33
  kind of has to lease the property, right?
• 1:01:36
  So to get on the people go, well, I have a ship.
• 1:01:38
  You can use this to plant crops or you could you out vessel but
• 1:01:44
  it's ultimately still that person ship. and they may have
• 1:01:48
  their own Security Services, their own people who might be
• 1:01:52
  Folded in the the like military quote, unquote or organization
• 1:01:57
  proper who might not be as loyal.
• 1:01:59
  And a leader knows that though. She's like what we got, I gotta
• 1:02:01
  play ball. I got no other choice.
• 1:02:05
  Okay. It's just the villain is human
• 1:02:07
  greed which, you know, as a Humane I II know how the Humane
• 1:02:13
  act when they get greedy it up. So that's that's really it for
• 1:02:18
  me it's just full. Don't know.
• 1:02:22
  What the consequences of actions will be until it bites them.
• 1:02:26
  It was very easy. I don't need like a, I don't
• 1:02:30
  really need to do all the song and dance of bad guys speech or
• 1:02:33
  anything that could this, it's more effective that the bad guys
• 1:02:38
  are sort of faceless and are only really known by their idea.
• 1:02:42
  And if the players meet some of them, they might notice that,
• 1:02:45
  maybe they're not inhuman, as they thought they might be in.
• 1:02:49
  Some of them might be fuckin work.
• 1:02:53
  Yeah, having a lot of fun playing with them specially
• 1:02:55
  because I have one character who like intrinsically tied to this
• 1:03:01
  plate. Because of her backstory, not
• 1:03:04
  from there. But there's someone who is from
• 1:03:06
  there that wants her. Because she, as o- type blood
• 1:03:13
  Which is priceless and a time where you're trying to rebuild
• 1:03:17
  Society, heard a lot of people, I know.
• 1:03:20
  So, Actually asked me she robbed soon.
• 1:03:25
  I was like, maybe I'm hot. Yeah.
• 1:03:33
  That's what they all say. Wait a minute, let's at least
• 1:03:38
  he's honest. I know, I know last time we kind
• 1:03:47
  of talked a little bit about the whole reoccurring villain thing.
• 1:03:50
  I know it's like a pain in the ass.
• 1:03:52
  I completely forgot about this. There's a character in The Curse
• 1:03:57
  of stride module riding, right? Damn Thang.
• 1:04:04
  He's like one strods henchman or something.
• 1:04:07
  I don't mean mahadi from - no no Rodding.
• 1:04:10
  He's like a mask elf guy. I might be your you're correct.
• 1:04:20
  The manservant fan, sir. Okay, it's amazing better.
• 1:04:27
  During in the three-year game by players were like after like
• 1:04:33
  they were like, chasing like a, what we all wanted poster.
• 1:04:36
  And I wanted to have like I just wanted to have like a rival like
• 1:04:39
  Bounty Hunter and I looked at his stat block, I'm like, well,
• 1:04:42
  I'm just gonna rip this out and throwing my home brew game, like
• 1:04:45
  don't I can most people do and they do Homebrew games, and he
• 1:04:49
  ended up becoming like a recurring villain for the
• 1:04:51
  players like constantly, like they hated like he was very
• 1:04:53
  smug. He has this, is this, the Failed
• 1:04:56
  row. No this isn't a powder has a
• 1:04:58
  completely different guy and do stuff.
• 1:05:01
  What's this Raha dividing? Yeah.
• 1:05:05
  Oh weird That's a Vibe. Okay.
• 1:05:10
  Isaiah, you can say 5 eat Fucking goob.
• 1:05:15
  Oh, yeah, yeah. And like, it is that much
• 1:05:19
  pretty, pretty cool. And I was like, all right, this
• 1:05:21
  is gonna be good. Film are not even.
• 1:05:23
  I wasn't even thinking of them as if on I was just like, I'll
• 1:05:25
  just be a good like opposing Force.
• 1:05:28
  Yeah, that's a cool stop block, I go to opposing Force because
• 1:05:32
  it, you know, the players are going after a bounty.
• 1:05:35
  They're trying to find this guy. This dusk elf dude, is also
• 1:05:38
  after the same Bounty. So it's like, you know, a race
• 1:05:41
  against whoever's going to know if the bounty And he ended up
• 1:05:44
  becoming a recurring villain where players fought him.
• 1:05:47
  He came back afterwards going after another Bounty.
• 1:05:51
  They killed him and then towards the end of the campaign as he
• 1:05:55
  had a real like rivalry with one of the other players and the
• 1:05:59
  players also pissed off like a devil because high level
• 1:06:02
  Campaign and he's fucking nuts, he came back again and they're
• 1:06:06
  like, how many times do we have to teach you?
• 1:06:07
  This lesson dust Golf and he came back and he's just like No,
• 1:06:14
  no. You don't understand.
• 1:06:14
  I have infernal Powers now and they're like, we don't fucking
• 1:06:17
  care. Stay in the ground.
• 1:06:20
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:06:22
  I mean you're hitting on a little point there.
• 1:06:24
  I don't know if you were doing this consciously or not but
• 1:06:29
  yeah, I think a big Once they seek trick and secret, I don't
• 1:06:34
  know a good method for from a table tops and point for having
• 1:06:40
  players, give a shit about villains in a way.
• 1:06:45
  Give a shit in so much just like hate them or like them or be,
• 1:06:49
  you know, interested in whatever giving a shit means in your
• 1:06:51
  game. But like, you know, you the
• 1:06:54
  worst kind of reaction, right? Is when you're running a game
• 1:06:57
  and a villain shows up and the players look at them and just
• 1:07:00
  stare at you and go with Loser. I don't know whose man's.
• 1:07:04
  That is the worst reaction. So one of the tricks to getting
• 1:07:09
  like an actual reaction, to having your players give a shit,
• 1:07:11
  I think is you know what, when you're dealing with because
• 1:07:17
  tabletop is not book, write in a book or a show or a movie or any
• 1:07:24
  of that shit you could control the narrative so you can do a
• 1:07:27
  lot more fancy and clever tricks with your villains.
• 1:07:30
  You can Do things that you won't be able to get away with and
• 1:07:34
  tabletop because you're controlling all the characters
• 1:07:37
  and all their actions and stuff. So you can you can fine-tune a
• 1:07:41
  lot more, you can pull off some some some real slime Maneuvers
• 1:07:45
  if you're like, writing a book but because we're not doing
• 1:07:48
  that. Tim top, you have to be a little
• 1:07:50
  more blunt with your methods in order to get a similar reaction.
• 1:07:56
  So I think one of the big tricks that I've one of the tricks I've
• 1:08:00
  realized, Over the years of running games and what and
• 1:08:03
  watching. A lot of other people run games,
• 1:08:08
  the villains, if you want them to give a shit about a villain,
• 1:08:11
  especially the main villain. Oh boy, I gotta keep showing up.
• 1:08:15
  He's gotta keep showing up at is like, yeah, even if he doesn't
• 1:08:20
  really do anything, even if he just shows up sits at the table,
• 1:08:24
  fucking has a beer at the players and flux-off doesn't
• 1:08:27
  matter. But you gotta have the bad guy
• 1:08:30
  like keep showing In some fashion or keep, they don't even
• 1:08:35
  have to like physically show up but they have to Endeavor to
• 1:08:38
  continuously interact with the players over and over and over
• 1:08:41
  again and it might not even be. And here's where you get to the
• 1:08:44
  big brain strategy, right? It doesn't even have to be the
• 1:08:47
  villain themselves. Interacting, it can be the
• 1:08:50
  villains henchmen. But then the henchmen tells the
• 1:08:55
  players and or the players know that these henchmen are from the
• 1:08:58
  villain. So they get annoyed at the vet.
• 1:09:00
  You know what I mean? Yeah.
• 1:09:01
  So like, you want to see a really great example of this,
• 1:09:04
  unfortunately, the campaign sputtered out for various
• 1:09:06
  reasons. But if you watch, the MC DM
• 1:09:08
  campaign, the chain of acheron, a first session, the villain
• 1:09:13
  shows up Beats the players ass, just fucking dunks on them hard
• 1:09:18
  and then leaps. And then throughout the campaign
• 1:09:21
  later, he keeps sending them bitches after them who they know
• 1:09:24
  are coming from this guy. And they know that this guy beat
• 1:09:27
  their ass and they have a job to go kill him because that's their
• 1:09:29
  whole deal. So they continually get more and
• 1:09:31
  more annoyed about him because they keep hearing his name.
• 1:09:34
  He keeps fucking with them. And also now they want revenge
• 1:09:36
  because he beat the shit out of a real bad.
• 1:09:40
  That's good. You know the a great a great
• 1:09:45
  opener it or opener scene is like for example if you have all
• 1:09:50
  your players sitting in the tavern, right?
• 1:09:53
  And then the villain shows up in the tavern with some goons but
• 1:09:57
  he's you know but Tuesday and D terms your players a level one
• 1:10:01
  is your villain CR 25. They can't they're not gonna
• 1:10:04
  attack him because he'll just he'll just murder the fuck out
• 1:10:06
  of her. Right.
• 1:10:07
  So he shows up talks a lot of shit.
• 1:10:10
  Maybe he pisses the players off maybe he fucks with them you
• 1:10:12
  know but he rolls up early on like session one.
• 1:10:15
  I'm talking and he's got his henchmen there and then you get
• 1:10:18
  a look at the goons and then you could do that thing where the
• 1:10:21
  campaign is about going through each of the goons until you get
• 1:10:24
  to the villain, you know, video game style, right?
• 1:10:27
  That's a great setup. It, you know, him, you know,
• 1:10:32
  Matt Koval is a video where he's like, you're running your first
• 1:10:34
  set game session. I really did everything he did.
• 1:10:37
  That's I'd like he by beat because he's like, use this and
• 1:10:41
  build your campaign front of from.
• 1:10:42
  And that's what I do in the three-year game.
• 1:10:44
  I ran the same exact dungeon I named everything the same.
• 1:10:48
  I even did the thing where Kal-El showed up, however, was
• 1:10:52
  the first major. And of my three-year game.
• 1:10:55
  And, yeah, and he mostly became. I changed in tweaked and made,
• 1:11:01
  it made him like my own version, but I literally did the thing
• 1:11:04
  where the players their first fight was in the bar.
• 1:11:07
  They killed the people in the bar because they're a bunch of
• 1:11:10
  dickheads and then Cal row just showed up, either, s loaded aid
• 1:11:15
  for the fucking the bodies and had two zombies come and drag
• 1:11:18
  the bodies and then he teleport away.
• 1:11:21
  Yeah, and my players like, oh, fuck.
• 1:11:24
  And then after. Yeah, after that bit, mostly my
• 1:11:27
  players were dealing with dragon called alt is.
• 1:11:29
  So they were constantly fighting dragon cultists, and if you're
• 1:11:33
  dragging people, and again, this is why I'm mad.
• 1:11:35
  I wish the fizzbin book came out way earlier because I would have
• 1:11:38
  used all my shit for that book. But yeah.
• 1:11:43
  And so my players were annoyed that I got these fucking Dragon
• 1:11:45
  called this. Now, think about the Colorado,
• 1:11:47
  and they were always The players always had that in the back of
• 1:11:50
  their mind, like, it's because of this person that we're
• 1:11:53
  dealing with these people, they're constantly fucking
• 1:11:55
  around with us. Yeah, well having the villain,
• 1:11:58
  you know, either show up physically having minions or
• 1:12:01
  weapons any monsters affect them.
• 1:12:04
  Yeah exactly. And and if you might be thinking
• 1:12:08
  to yourself, might be listening and thinking well I don't know
• 1:12:12
  maybe that's that sounds like a good idea but maybe it's a
• 1:12:15
  little silly and contrived, let me counter that point with Star
• 1:12:19
  Wars. Darth Vader shows up in session
• 1:12:22
  one of Star Wars and it's literally the impetus for the
• 1:12:27
  beginning of Star Wars, and I don't know if you guys know that
• 1:12:30
  little-known franchise called Star Wars, but it's doing pretty
• 1:12:32
  good for itself. So I think it's a pretty
• 1:12:33
  effective move. It is, I don't know what you're
• 1:12:36
  talking about though. Like Darth Vader's a villain.
• 1:12:39
  A lot of people. Like so you know, now just in
• 1:12:43
  case you need a, you need a another example.
• 1:12:47
  Very, very strong Contender there.
• 1:12:50
  And also not only does Darth Vader show up session one.
• 1:12:53
  As I said he shows up and he beats everyone's ass, so yeah,
• 1:13:00
  it's a good trick here is granted.
• 1:13:03
  I don't listen to my own advice and probably should but, you
• 1:13:05
  know, whatever it's fine. But kind of kind of going with
• 1:13:10
  like the Vader thing. I had another, like just thought
• 1:13:13
  because again, no tabletop games.
• 1:13:15
  Like, yeah, it's gonna be like, generalized between like D&D at
• 1:13:18
  finder, whatever fucking lying. Yes, yes.
• 1:13:21
  D&D and Indie Indies cousin, Dean D and then another d and e.
• 1:13:25
  Yeah, yeah. The other deities name's Matt
• 1:13:27
  knows. Do you did not the indeed?
• 1:13:30
  No, no. A couple of these.
• 1:13:31
  I'm learning, I'm learning. But like, I've been thinking
• 1:13:35
  about, like, just like, I don't know why because I was talking
• 1:13:38
  with someone about Skyrim the other day and thinking, you
• 1:13:41
  know, they have the three factions and all the Dark
• 1:13:43
  Brotherhood they had Thieves Guild and the Fighters Guild
• 1:13:47
  ages and everything. It's like those aren't the
• 1:13:49
  functions. All right well some factions
• 1:13:52
  were the night is a to fucking all right, you know what I mean
• 1:13:55
  though? The different guilds guilds,
• 1:13:57
  okay? Yeah yeah and then when I got
• 1:13:59
  like when you do tabletop games you there's so many good
• 1:14:02
  examples of like different guilds, evil organizations that
• 1:14:06
  you can call throwing, like, The big one obviously is I Cults,
• 1:14:09
  Everyone likes fighting cultists like they're organized, they
• 1:14:13
  believe in something like crazy and out there that, you know, is
• 1:14:16
  wrong. And you don't feel bad about in
• 1:14:18
  the shadow. Okay, well, maybe a little bit
• 1:14:21
  well, but I are you now a smidgen like we worship worship.
• 1:14:26
  The lobster God double tube. You must be sent and you feel
• 1:14:33
  all those. I mean, I think the big reason
• 1:14:40
  like old sir so popular, is because most people know what a
• 1:14:44
  cult is. Most people know that Cults are
• 1:14:47
  generally a bad thing. Also really easy to justify why
• 1:14:51
  there's a giant mass of of nameless minion goons, if you
• 1:14:55
  have a cult? Yeah, Anna.
• 1:14:59
  Promised power in or I'm seeking something Magic.
• 1:15:04
  Or they just not timing. Some cult you could some called
• 1:15:08
  this could just be like I don't know.
• 1:15:08
  I had nothing better to do with my life all that going on, I
• 1:15:13
  found deeper meaning in shanking someone with this knife of ball
• 1:15:17
  deeper meaning in my home. Girl, Tia model I could write
• 1:15:21
  well Mmm. And then I got the hand effect.
• 1:15:24
  I all right. Joe.
• 1:15:26
  Oh yeah brother. Yeah like Ultra pretty good.
• 1:15:33
  It's like the sea. I don't know it's weird because
• 1:15:34
  I in Indian D terms of Thieves Guild and Assassin's Guild can
• 1:15:40
  basically be like the same thing and not necessarily they don't
• 1:15:43
  have to be evil but they can make a pretty good villain
• 1:15:46
  organization. Your players come up against, um
• 1:15:50
  like I didn't mind, the three-year game is really like
• 1:15:55
  adverse. Like verse you are there have
• 1:16:00
  one in my setting. There's so there's like the
• 1:16:03
  military. What's left of the US Military
• 1:16:05
  and they had like an offshoot. Branch that tried to rebel and
• 1:16:08
  Austin and are acid. The people think that they are
• 1:16:13
  like now there's basically Bandits, sometimes I'll keep
• 1:16:16
  over love. People are like, yeah, you know.
• 1:16:20
  Like a business. So, yeah.
• 1:16:23
  They sort of exist as these great bad guys, but they do just
• 1:16:27
  enough Elite like illegal shit to be like they might just kill
• 1:16:31
  you. If they even though you they're
• 1:16:33
  not allowed to because you're both part of an organization, it
• 1:16:36
  might just try and hide the body but they also, you know, at the
• 1:16:41
  same time that they're like, oh yeah, we got sent to kill you,
• 1:16:43
  I'll pay you double. They're like all right, cool,
• 1:16:45
  half the money up front. I'll just leave you alone.
• 1:16:49
  And they're great. There's this, the poisonous game
• 1:16:53
  that has to be played of like, heirs are being antagonized.
• 1:16:57
  Their D&D player's, the end of the day.
• 1:16:58
  They want to kill everything that calls them dum-dums, but
• 1:17:02
  you can't, unless you can make sure no one can tell you about
• 1:17:05
  it, and a lot of Yeah, Gil. I mean You talk about guilds
• 1:17:15
  like the idea of the Thieves Guild, the Assassin's Guild
• 1:17:17
  Fighters Guild so etc, etc. I don't know ilds in the dark
• 1:17:24
  organizations quote unquote like yeah, so yeah, I think we're
• 1:17:28
  talking about is more like evil factions.
• 1:17:32
  Guild is a conglomerate of people trying to legit, you
• 1:17:38
  know, do some sort of legitimate like business usually are Right?
• 1:17:42
  Like if you got like I mean in actual history, right?
• 1:17:45
  A guild was like you had the leather workers killed everyone.
• 1:17:48
  There makes you know leather shit, you know they're they're
• 1:17:52
  like Don't say they were like unions but sort of like kind of
• 1:17:59
  medieval version of a union. So yeah like but yeah like if
• 1:18:04
  you're talking about like big evils like I think the
• 1:18:07
  difference I guess the real differences like scale and
• 1:18:09
  purpose because when you say Guild I think smaller and focus
• 1:18:13
  on like a very specific business.
• 1:18:14
  When you say faction, I think bigger and has a very big goal
• 1:18:19
  usually. Yeah.
• 1:18:20
  I guess it depends on the type of game you're running.
• 1:18:23
  Like, if it's something like Like I don't know, like running
• 1:18:26
  a game and you know, fantasy City, having a faction could be
• 1:18:30
  good but if you're like out in the countryside, maybe a guild
• 1:18:33
  would be better. Playing like lost minds and find
• 1:18:36
  out over. Well, I think it's a guild can
• 1:18:40
  be part of a faction, but a faction can't really be a guild
• 1:18:44
  but I mean, which are enough. I I use those interchangeably in
• 1:18:48
  my settings. Yeah, they don't mean quite the
• 1:18:51
  same Kettle and all that. Yeah.
• 1:18:55
  Well, I know not even because for me, I have three factions
• 1:18:57
  and of guilt builds Burke actions at based.
• 1:19:02
  Oh no. Yeah, it's kind of, I mean, if
• 1:19:05
  you redefine what the guild, what a guild is in a setting,
• 1:19:08
  right then and obviously, you can change things, but in the
• 1:19:11
  very traditional, like actual medieval history since.
• 1:19:15
  Yeah, it's a slightly but I don't know whatever semantics I
• 1:19:19
  guess at that point. Yeah, because pretty sure the
• 1:19:23
  super powerful we do whatever we want dudes in the Dune books are
• 1:19:27
  called The Guild if I remember correctly and the spacers get.
• 1:19:31
  Yeah. So kind of kind of ignoring my
• 1:19:37
  own statement there, but whatever it's like, But then I
• 1:19:44
  had a couple other ones here, like the mob crime syndicate,
• 1:19:48
  you know, the mafia, I don't know.
• 1:19:49
  I don't, I don't think I've ever done like a mafia type deal in a
• 1:19:53
  game of DnD, well enough, I tried.
• 1:19:56
  And then like, I mean, it was like, it became the
• 1:19:58
  stereotypical like, hey, you over there.
• 1:20:00
  Oh, and it's not all my players. Sorry, speaking in Italian
• 1:20:03
  accent, and I'm like, all right, you know what, I'm just gonna,
• 1:20:05
  I'm gonna just let this just be a one-off.
• 1:20:07
  This is yeah. Okay, it's not a very fantasy
• 1:20:10
  Trope. The idea of the mafia.
• 1:20:11
  No, it's not. I the best advice I have for
• 1:20:16
  running a mop because the whole gharial like Factory workers
• 1:20:20
  thing. It's a, that's a mob word and
• 1:20:22
  it's a massive crime syndicate essentially.
• 1:20:25
  The only thing I can say is if you've ever watched, It's Always
• 1:20:28
  Sunny, it's the joke of it's, the implication, right?
• 1:20:32
  Is the Players know, if they, if they take down Al Capone's door,
• 1:20:36
  there's like 60 dudes in there, right?
• 1:20:38
  Like you're gonna kill Al Capone.
• 1:20:40
  You might kill his like that. Your, there's no way your
• 1:20:42
  Killing everybody, when they're all just as armed to the teeth
• 1:20:45
  are and you never had put them what I would do, right?
• 1:20:52
  He's like, I put them on the wrong side of the moral board,
• 1:20:56
  but the right side of the law, right?
• 1:20:57
  Like they're technically fine, the rules are not doing anything
• 1:21:00
  overtly legal, so you can't just shoot them for it and have to,
• 1:21:04
  you have to figure out there loophole, counteract it and just
• 1:21:09
  to make it very, very, very clear to the players like, If
• 1:21:13
  you act out of turn, there will be some serious consequence for
• 1:21:18
  you as the players of whatever organizations that they speak
• 1:21:22
  write and when you have those things sort of setup and you
• 1:21:26
  preach put them on the board, you can do pretty much whatever
• 1:21:30
  you want like that that is for my number.
• 1:21:32
  That's that's what I said last time for the bad guy speech,
• 1:21:35
  right? Like make sure that your players
• 1:21:39
  Ant attack the bad guy? Yeah, you had to hold a gun to
• 1:21:42
  their head. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:21:44
  Like you want the Negan thing? Not maybe necessarily to like
• 1:21:48
  the same degree where they're literally on their knees.
• 1:21:50
  Every 2 seconds. The bad guy shows up to do a
• 1:21:52
  speech but you want that feeling of like God I want to punch you
• 1:21:57
  in the face so bad. But if I do I'm gonna get shot.
• 1:22:00
  You know you want that only ramification?
• 1:22:03
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:22:03
  You want the ramifications, you want them be really clear.
• 1:22:06
  And you know you have to find a very healthy Bálint players feel
• 1:22:09
  like they're constantly helpless and they constantly have to hear
• 1:22:12
  this bad guy drone on forever and they're just gonna be like,
• 1:22:16
  well, my agency. Wait, where did it go?
• 1:22:19
  Where it goes, you what happened?
• 1:22:22
  And then you're like, you know, my story what game?
• 1:22:26
  Yeah. Okay, look an impasse.
• 1:22:28
  There's there's a part of me that wants to do the meme where
• 1:22:31
  I think it's from Borderlands 2 where there's like the infinite
• 1:22:34
  dialogue like thing going on with a NPC and the way to get
• 1:22:40
  out of it is, if you literally shoot them in the face.
• 1:22:43
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:22:44
  There's the, I just want that for some reason, the players are
• 1:22:47
  there talking to someone and it's just non-stop, it's like,
• 1:22:50
  Matt. All right.
• 1:22:50
  Can I I'm just going to keep talking and they're like, wait
• 1:22:53
  for apply to be like, all right, that's it.
• 1:22:55
  I chop them with my axe. Chop his head off.
• 1:22:59
  Fuck this. Yeah, I think you don't think
• 1:23:02
  would be funny. Yeah, that'd be fucking great.
• 1:23:04
  I think the mob family idea. I think the reason It doesn't
• 1:23:08
  quite work. And like a fantasy sense is
• 1:23:10
  because kind of thing, I say it was talking about where, in, you
• 1:23:16
  know, when you're dealing with fiction, a big thing about the
• 1:23:18
  mob family Trope, is that mobs have rules and are very
• 1:23:24
  specifically going either around or finding new poles and the
• 1:23:29
  launch it. But yeah, those sorts of things,
• 1:23:32
  don't, First of all because we don't a lot of people don't know
• 1:23:36
  history. While I mean shit we don't even
• 1:23:38
  probably have enough information about how laws worked back then
• 1:23:42
  and also the laws we have today are very different kind of thing
• 1:23:46
  than they would have been back then.
• 1:23:47
  And the mob family is kind of predicated on playing with that
• 1:23:51
  idea, right? So a big thing, like the Yakuza
• 1:23:54
  or like the Italian mob idea is, oh yeah, they're breaking the
• 1:23:59
  law but also they pay for the preschool.
• 1:24:02
  So all the people that live near the Gold.
• 1:24:04
  Don't want them to be gone because they're paying for the
• 1:24:07
  kids to go to school. So we like that.
• 1:24:10
  So no, you can't get rid of the mop, right?
• 1:24:11
  So it's that whole thing like they're playing with the morals
• 1:24:14
  of playing with the law and shit.
• 1:24:15
  And yeah, that stuff doesn't doesn't quite fit the fantasy
• 1:24:20
  stuff as much. Well, I think in, it's funny
• 1:24:24
  because in the Forgotten Realms, Laura the centaurum.
• 1:24:27
  They're basically that but throughout all this so many
• 1:24:30
  different iterations and they changed from being like they're
• 1:24:33
  an evil organization. So many different.
• 1:24:35
  Alright, there's sex of the centaurum.
• 1:24:37
  Yeah, some of them are like a mafia.
• 1:24:39
  Some of them are bunch of Evil dark Mage.
• 1:24:41
  Has some of them are just Thugs and it's funny how many
• 1:24:45
  different iterations of doesn't arm?
• 1:24:46
  Are there have been even? Just going just from 5e?
• 1:24:50
  Like they constantly change. Yeah, that if you look back even
• 1:24:52
  further, it's like fuck, it isn't areum.
• 1:24:56
  They feel kind of funny. They, that's the funny thing to
• 1:24:58
  write. It's because they are trying to
• 1:24:59
  do kind of the mob thing with them, but they do feel really
• 1:25:02
  goofy in a lot of ways. And also, A lot of the stuff, a
• 1:25:06
  lot of like the stories that they get involved in, don't feel
• 1:25:09
  very like Mafia to me, you know, he's a different.
• 1:25:14
  It's not like this entire remark doing like a Scarface thing.
• 1:25:17
  Really, you know, it's like a very specific tone, the mob,
• 1:25:22
  like, it's kind of a genre, actually, I was saying Trope
• 1:25:25
  before, but it's actually kind of a genre, but, like the mob,
• 1:25:27
  genre has a very specific tone thing.
• 1:25:30
  That's, I mean, you could do it in fancy, it's just a little
• 1:25:32
  harder, you'd be used. Put up just lift them things
• 1:25:36
  around, right? Like it's probably not going to
• 1:25:38
  be like a whole criminal Syndicate but probably going to
• 1:25:41
  be like the local feudal Lord, whose like kind of being more of
• 1:25:46
  a dictator than he probably should.
• 1:25:47
  But he's within his right is land and like, well I don't
• 1:25:51
  know, how do we deal with that? Psycho couple you have to go to
• 1:25:53
  the other feudal, Lord, who on stack guys land, and then you
• 1:25:56
  tell him the secret way in and you go to the first feudal Lord
• 1:25:59
  and be like, hey, so I told him how to get in but I can know how
• 1:26:02
  to get like I know what their weaknesses are.
• 1:26:04
  Now, I know, Like let's say, you know there have a heavy Cavalry
• 1:26:07
  can't move in like in spaces there's a plot right over there.
• 1:26:12
  I sleep in past that they'll sort of them all out, right?
• 1:26:15
  Like you kind of want to play Both Sides.
• 1:26:18
  See. But even even you describing
• 1:26:21
  that though that just sound, that sounds like that sounds
• 1:26:24
  like sort of courtly Intrigue nonsense.
• 1:26:27
  It's the, you know, that's what these are.
• 1:26:31
  It's sort of a different kind of Court though because it is It's
• 1:26:35
  like it's like it's the law but then it's mob law or like a
• 1:26:41
  medieval thing. It's it's, you know, you have
• 1:26:43
  the king or whatever, the Monarch dictator Emperor is like
• 1:26:47
  a lordly shit. Go.
• 1:26:50
  I think the thing that's kind of funny when you're describing
• 1:26:52
  that because I was just thinking about the Yakuza games and like
• 1:26:56
  the entire story of Yakuza 0 it's based on the premise that
• 1:27:00
  these three dudes are trying to buy a plot of land for a
• 1:27:03
  shitload of money. Any to do some shit with like
• 1:27:06
  some taxes and like to own a slightly larger portion of the
• 1:27:10
  city so that the paperwork is better.
• 1:27:13
  And oh, also the person who owns the plot of land, we have to
• 1:27:16
  find them so they could sign that.
• 1:27:17
  Like so I'm the ownership over it.
• 1:27:19
  Like, all of that would sound really weird and like a fantasy
• 1:27:23
  setting, you know what I mean? I think it's, it's a I don't
• 1:27:29
  know the word like yeah, you have to adjust it and then it
• 1:27:33
  kind of becomes a different thing once you adjust it.
• 1:27:36
  So it's like, I don't know, it's just so weird.
• 1:27:40
  I just, I can't see any way of doing it without it coming
• 1:27:43
  across kind of weird. And then what ends up happening
• 1:27:46
  is like, what bats players do, where they just make jokes
• 1:27:48
  about, like, it's gabagool, you know, like I feel like, it's so
• 1:27:53
  but so hard to like, avoid that if you try and do even just the
• 1:27:57
  word mob, Right. Like yeah you say the word mob
• 1:28:00
  and your players that like all oh boy was gonna make it the
• 1:28:03
  Spaghettini like God damn it. Like there's like an instinct.
• 1:28:08
  Yeah it's weird because this actually is now make me think I
• 1:28:14
  didn't have this question mine I'm sorry about the speed.
• 1:28:17
  Like have you guys ever thought about like trying to actually
• 1:28:20
  run like an evil campaign? Like all the players are bad
• 1:28:24
  guys. Not to, like not long, not long
• 1:28:27
  term like mini Something, everybody's bad guy laid in
• 1:28:31
  water. I've done it three times.
• 1:28:34
  Oh shit, we've talked about this Matt.
• 1:28:36
  Yeah, it's been a while. Talked about this multiple times
• 1:28:40
  bad as a metal wire. That's basically read three
• 1:28:44
  different evil campaigns and how to have a healthy ego.
• 1:28:47
  Yeah, it goes fight. Look, it's not that hard.
• 1:28:51
  I look, I'm gonna be honest and I think Sam could back me up,
• 1:28:54
  probably, I don't know, maybe say a lot of different video on
• 1:28:56
  this but like yeah, Sam was in one of my Evil games by stars.
• 1:28:59
  Without number campaign players, served an ancient evil alien
• 1:29:02
  Cole, right? That was the game where they
• 1:29:04
  abducted the hookers. The strippers.
• 1:29:06
  Hmm. Over that story.
• 1:29:08
  I took no part and also they murdered the lady and then
• 1:29:11
  chopped her up and shoved her in her own freezer.
• 1:29:12
  Remember that? Also the I especially didn't
• 1:29:14
  take part in that same. Same thing, literally went in
• 1:29:18
  the direction that I Delhi. I literally was like a pretty
• 1:29:21
  accurate drawing. I was literally like off, you
• 1:29:24
  know, just talking to some guy and I'm like, okay, we're gonna
• 1:29:27
  go do their own thing. There's gonna kidnap were just
• 1:29:30
  gonna scare her a little bit. Now, men just fucking murders
• 1:29:32
  earns shoves her in her freezer sitting there.
• 1:29:35
  I'm like, thank God my character just know any of this because
• 1:29:37
  you can freaking out right now and then my other.
• 1:29:41
  Yeah, so there was that. And then there was my dungeon
• 1:29:43
  World campaign, where I basically did the chosen one
• 1:29:46
  thing. But instead of being the good
• 1:29:48
  chosen ones, the players were the bad chosen ones, they were
• 1:29:51
  the Agents of chaos as opposed to order.
• 1:29:55
  And then what was the other Actually, I've had a couple
• 1:30:01
  other ones that were sorta on like blades in the dark.
• 1:30:04
  Your characters are basically Bad Guys by default your
• 1:30:07
  criminal, your credit. You Can Be You Can Be criminals
• 1:30:10
  that are sort of on like the arguably.
• 1:30:12
  Like you can be the kind of criminal where it's good
• 1:30:16
  intentions bad methods. But at the end of the day your
• 1:30:18
  characters are like are criminals.
• 1:30:20
  They are doing like bad shit. Like you can't not do that and
• 1:30:23
  Blades of the dark and the same way that you're not going to
• 1:30:26
  play cyberpunk and not do gigs, right?
• 1:30:28
  Like Same idea. Um yeah like look I know I'm
• 1:30:33
  going to be honest. I do whole thing of like man.
• 1:30:37
  How do you do an evil campaign? It's so hard.
• 1:30:41
  It's really not hard. Hey, it's very simple.
• 1:30:44
  The trick is to the evil campaign.
• 1:30:47
  First of all you have to give first and foremost if your
• 1:30:50
  players want to be playing bad guys, you have to give them.
• 1:30:55
  The goal of the campaign has to be, you know, something evil
• 1:31:00
  because I can't tell you how many times I've seen stories of
• 1:31:03
  like, oh I tried to do this evil campaign or whatever.
• 1:31:08
  And then like objective they gave the players was like not
• 1:31:12
  evil. It was like a good guy thing to
• 1:31:14
  do, you know? Like all right.
• 1:31:17
  Well you have to give them an evil goal.
• 1:31:20
  Like that's the whole point. It's not gonna be like, oh yeah,
• 1:31:22
  so bad guy players go saved a little girl from the Goblins
• 1:31:26
  know. We're gonna go kill all the
• 1:31:28
  goblins and the robbed, the goblins and then kill the little
• 1:31:30
  girls. So there's no Witnesses, right?
• 1:31:32
  Like, that's what the evil characters do.
• 1:31:34
  So that's the first thing. Second thing, you have to make
• 1:31:37
  sure that your players all agree not to beat dickheads to each
• 1:31:40
  other. Yeah, which is the real Crux of
• 1:31:42
  it. Honestly, I think most of the
• 1:31:44
  time because a lot of people are like, oh, the evil campaign
• 1:31:47
  doesn't work because the players fuck each other over.
• 1:31:49
  No. No.
• 1:31:50
  What you need to do is have the discussion of your all bad guys.
• 1:31:54
  You are not killing each other because they're all bad guys
• 1:31:58
  together to go on baby. Yeah, your assets to each other,
• 1:32:02
  the whole point is you want to do something so Grand and evil,
• 1:32:05
  you couldn't do it alone, otherwise you would be on your
• 1:32:08
  own, right? So you're not fucking each other
• 1:32:10
  over because your assets to each other and can be dickheads to
• 1:32:14
  each other. But the point is like the player
• 1:32:16
  on the player level, not so much, the Character level, but
• 1:32:18
  more so, on the player level. You're all agreeing not to
• 1:32:21
  literally screw each other or try and kill each other in your
• 1:32:24
  sleep because that's not what being evil is.
• 1:32:28
  You're just being a fucking idiot and or a dickhead like
• 1:32:31
  that's not, you know, like think about it.
• 1:32:34
  Okay. Think about Starscream and
• 1:32:36
  Megatron, right? Start dream, very, very badly.
• 1:32:40
  With love to kill Megatron's ass and take his position but he
• 1:32:43
  knows he can't because if he does all the other Decepticons
• 1:32:47
  are going to beat the fuck out of them and or some other badge.
• 1:32:49
  It's going to happen or it's all gonna fall apart because current
• 1:32:52
  starscream's an idiot and Megatron knows that Starscream
• 1:32:55
  wants to kill him. But he's a useful asset to keep
• 1:32:57
  around. So he just leaves them there.
• 1:32:59
  And then every time Starscream shock.
• 1:33:00
  Shit Megatron's like bitch. I know what you're doing.
• 1:33:02
  Don't test me, right? Yeah, I'm absolutely.
• 1:33:06
  I'm really sad than the. Was it the the Michael Bay
• 1:33:09
  movies? Yeah, they killed everyone.
• 1:33:10
  That never came out. Like that never happened at all.
• 1:33:14
  Now, let's not talk about those movies.
• 1:33:15
  I don't want to go outside right now.
• 1:33:17
  I hate them so much as a big transformers fan.
• 1:33:19
  I hate them. Deeply.
• 1:33:20
  But anyway, I'm literally the Starscream Megatron relationship
• 1:33:25
  is what if you're doing an evil campaign that is how you do it,
• 1:33:29
  right? That is what your players need
• 1:33:31
  to understand. Your players are four copies of
• 1:33:34
  start screaming. Megatron players are Megatron to
• 1:33:38
  your players are Starscream. And I think we also we actually
• 1:33:41
  pulled it off as a group, right? Then to have Earnest.
• 1:33:44
  Yeah, same ideas. Clearly we've said before was
• 1:33:48
  evil as shit and made it Very clear that he was eat shit and
• 1:33:53
  you know several times I as pause was like I should just
• 1:33:57
  skip right now and it'd all be dead and I can haunt and in the
• 1:34:02
  immediate but I would be hooked up in the light after that.
• 1:34:06
  Yeah, we're and, you know, no one trusted pause, most of he
• 1:34:10
  wanted him gone but he had information and also does a lot
• 1:34:14
  of damage. He's valuable life around purely
• 1:34:17
  based on survival if nothing else.
• 1:34:19
  Yeah. And that's that's yeah that's
• 1:34:21
  the same same idea as the pause situation Center versus the
• 1:34:24
  exact same premise. The only difference being
• 1:34:27
  instead of Starscream and Megatron it was Starscream an
• 1:34:30
  optimist because we weren't necessarily evil but like you
• 1:34:32
  know pause was still Starscream, right?
• 1:34:37
  And then the other thing The other thing from a GM side of
• 1:34:42
  the table again make sure to get your players to all agree to the
• 1:34:46
  Megatron Starscream relationship.
• 1:34:49
  But the other thing is if you're playing evil campaign and your
• 1:34:54
  players have agreed, yes, we want to be bad guys.
• 1:34:57
  And you say okay you're playing bad guns, you need to understand
• 1:35:01
  as the GM. Your players are gonna do fucked
• 1:35:06
  up shit to get what you want. So the normal ways of delivering
• 1:35:10
  and objective are not going to work, right?
• 1:35:14
  Let me get it to give you like to just make up an example.
• 1:35:18
  If you're playing a kid if you're playing a normal D&D
• 1:35:20
  campaign or any or if you're playing a normal.
• 1:35:26
  I mean, this is why it's a basic anything, right?
• 1:35:28
  Indy campaign, cyberpunk, campaign, fucking space
• 1:35:31
  campaign, like the same. Idea if your players are good
• 1:35:34
  guys and they're going to be given a mission by some dude and
• 1:35:40
  that dudes gonna go. Hey, I got some money here.
• 1:35:43
  For if you can take care of this problem for me.
• 1:35:45
  Cool, we'll go do the job for you.
• 1:35:46
  They get the job done and get paid nice.
• 1:35:49
  If you're playing in an evil campaign and the local guard
• 1:35:53
  goes. Yeah, so we have some extra
• 1:35:54
  money in the safe at the barracks.
• 1:35:57
  Could you go save this little girl for us the evil players are
• 1:36:00
  kind of go or counter. Um we kill all of you in the
• 1:36:05
  barracks at Rob. U.s. what the evil characters
• 1:36:08
  are going to do rock and go save the little girl.
• 1:36:10
  They're gonna kill all the guards.
• 1:36:12
  Take the money out of the barracks and then go kill the
• 1:36:14
  little girl to see if she has any money on her.
• 1:36:16
  Yeah, you have to understand as a GM your the the types of
• 1:36:21
  situations you're going to set up.
• 1:36:24
  Players are going to come at them differently and also, you
• 1:36:27
  need to have different kinds of problems for them because you
• 1:36:32
  can't use moral dilemmas as a problem, right?
• 1:36:36
  You know, captain of the Guard arrest, the players, the evil
• 1:36:40
  players are just going to kill the caps in the garden.
• 1:36:42
  Make a break for it, whereas the good players will hand over
• 1:36:44
  their weapons because of moral reasons, they don't want to kill
• 1:36:47
  the caps in the guard right though.
• 1:36:48
  They feel bad about it. Evil players are not going to
• 1:36:50
  feel bad about. So, you have to re to
• 1:36:53
  reconfigure how you hand them quests and objectives and what
• 1:36:58
  you want them to do. I think so I think something I
• 1:37:04
  think what people usually rip up.
• 1:37:08
  Will campaigns write it? The moral dilemma I think is
• 1:37:11
  often and building. Because, like I think the idea
• 1:37:17
  of putting like moral qualms in front of you, already think that
• 1:37:20
  works fine. I think you just need to be okay
• 1:37:24
  when they do the evil thing, right?
• 1:37:26
  Because like if you if you're like, oh well, if you like a
• 1:37:29
  little girl you would have been paid more.
• 1:37:32
  Okay? Yeah.
• 1:37:34
  But we're evil. They're like all right.
• 1:37:35
  Cool and then you keep putting those toes. as rewards in front
• 1:37:38
  of them, and it's like, Are you going to keep?
• 1:37:43
  And it's just this little test, right?
• 1:37:44
  It's the carrot. You're sitting there going to
• 1:37:46
  bite. Yes.
• 1:37:48
  And if they never do and goddamn they're pretty good at
• 1:37:51
  maintaining character. Yes.
• 1:37:52
  And then I think you should reward them for that.
• 1:37:54
  Right. That definitely you've done so
• 1:37:56
  much evil that vecna's. Like next year I have my God.
• 1:38:00
  Yeah you will get the thumb of back my point.
• 1:38:03
  Exactly my point is that yes Isaiah you can still put the
• 1:38:07
  moral quandaries in front of them but when they do the Saying
• 1:38:11
  don't be sitting there, surprise Pikachu.
• 1:38:13
  Yeah. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:38:14
  Like, yeah, you have to be aware of what they're gonna do knowing
• 1:38:17
  color. Well that yeah, come at it from
• 1:38:20
  a different direction. That being said, one thing you
• 1:38:23
  can do that will still work on evil players is rather than
• 1:38:27
  having existential moral quandaries, have internal moral
• 1:38:31
  contries or things that threaten the evil characters.
• 1:38:35
  Like, for example, let's say you're playing an evil campaign
• 1:38:37
  and one of the players is like is like the Court Mage and the
• 1:38:42
  King doesn't know he's evil. What you do then is you put the
• 1:38:46
  you put an objective in front of him, where it's like, oh yeah.
• 1:38:50
  So this person's trying to reveal your fucked-up, plans to
• 1:38:53
  the king and then the evil player goes shit.
• 1:38:56
  How do I solve that problem? They want you to do a job for
• 1:38:59
  them and then they won't tell the king.
• 1:39:01
  Then you have to go fuck. I want to kill them.
• 1:39:03
  Then the court made shoes. The bad guys like who's the
• 1:39:06
  player. I want to kill them so bad but
• 1:39:09
  they have this information that's threatening my position.
• 1:39:11
  So I got gonna have to put up with your bullshit, right?
• 1:39:14
  The other way to do it, if you threatening a figure out a way
• 1:39:17
  to get rid of the, yeah, you should, you have to threat evil
• 1:39:20
  characters. You have to threaten selfishly
• 1:39:22
  as opposed to Heroes who you can threaten the planet and the
• 1:39:26
  hero's got. Well, we got to save the planet,
• 1:39:28
  the evil characters go. I can find a new planet fine.
• 1:39:31
  I'm going to Wild space. Fuck y'all.
• 1:39:33
  Right? Sam laughter that tirade, since
• 1:39:37
  you were partaking in my nonsense in question.
• 1:39:40
  Any other us I need water. I mean yeah having understanding
• 1:39:54
  how to make evil players motivated is very important
• 1:39:59
  because they'll just kind of go with whatever they desire to
• 1:40:02
  really. The only way that you can quote
• 1:40:04
  unquote understand them is by taking away their toys.
• 1:40:07
  Yeah. Obviously you don't selfish.
• 1:40:09
  You do fish friends and you don't do it in such a way that
• 1:40:14
  it's like oh I'm gonna take away your favorite NPC or whatever. /
• 1:40:19
  bullshit like you, threatened them?
• 1:40:22
  Yeah, you don't just straight-up.
• 1:40:24
  Take it away because then they have to fight for something
• 1:40:28
  specific. And also, if you're threatening
• 1:40:31
  an NPC, for example, you can't, you can't do odd man,
• 1:40:35
  Spider-Man, right? If Spider-Man was evil, he
• 1:40:38
  doesn't give a shit about me dies, you have to do the thing
• 1:40:41
  where you threaten their like, useful henchmen.
• 1:40:44
  And the reason they care about the henchmen is because they're
• 1:40:46
  a valuable asset, not because they give a shit about the
• 1:40:48
  person, right? Yeah.
• 1:40:49
  They're like main contact like their fixer sometimes excited,
• 1:40:52
  right? I think there's something to
• 1:40:57
  say, right. Campaign, you can still threaten
• 1:41:01
  Aunt. May You just need Aunt, May to
• 1:41:06
  be the selfish thing, right? Like like, you know, a lot of
• 1:41:10
  Village like oh yeah, I'm evil. But I have a daughter, right?
• 1:41:12
  It's like, it's dead shot in his daughter if it's that kind of a
• 1:41:15
  gavel. I'm assuming I'm assuming I.
• 1:41:17
  Yeah. I'm assuming a level of evil
• 1:41:18
  where they're just like fucking unbelievably degenerate.
• 1:41:22
  Like I'm going all the way to the bottom evil, like they don't
• 1:41:25
  care about anyone but yes if yeah probably your players are
• 1:41:28
  going to be playing the kind of villains where it's like they do
• 1:41:30
  still care about some things. And yeah, in that case.
• 1:41:34
  Yes, Deadshot in the daughter makes sense.
• 1:41:38
  You want to put the things that they care about a Twist.
• 1:41:40
  You don't just want to like, right?
• 1:41:42
  Because if I can, if Waller was just like, I see you're going to
• 1:41:46
  work for us and we killed your daughter.
• 1:41:48
  He's gonna just gonna be like, well, fuck you.
• 1:41:49
  And what the fuck am I looking for you?
• 1:41:51
  Yeah. All right here.
• 1:41:55
  You don't want to take it away like, just what Sam was saying.
• 1:41:58
  You just want to be like, hey, real quick, all your daughter,
• 1:42:02
  they go, oh, there's this guy who keeps asking for you.
• 1:42:06
  Oh, Oh no. Oh, it's like you know you could
• 1:42:09
  do the the Selco thing in the campaign where he just shows up
• 1:42:11
  at your house and he's playing blocking your daughter and just
• 1:42:14
  like exactly like us or we could he's like I don't know.
• 1:42:19
  We just created it was probably The best scene and and Arcane
• 1:42:30
  it's just when he's at the the lady's house and blocks with
• 1:42:34
  their kid, ain't the police officer guy.
• 1:42:37
  Yeah. Oh yeah, my bad.
• 1:42:39
  It was the dawn of the he was young and spoilers for
• 1:42:42
  Hurricane, by the way. It was the young cop who became
• 1:42:45
  the chief later on in the show. Yeah.
• 1:42:47
  For some reason after the the redhead lady with the gas mask,
• 1:42:51
  a star, no I just annihilates her son.
• 1:42:56
  But I was Jason Jason. I was thinking of that lady but
• 1:42:59
  no yeah the cop dude, right? And your it's the What's was a
• 1:43:06
  scene? I'm thinking of and binders
• 1:43:08
  where you're like, oh no, Tommy is just insane.
• 1:43:11
  I, many seems I know what was them.
• 1:43:14
  Trying the big one? Like I was another show.
• 1:43:17
  I keep him tight while God Matt, you gotta watch p.
• 1:43:20
  L took me a long time, to convince Eyes, eye on that one.
• 1:43:23
  Yeah so I did I did just have another thought though.
• 1:43:28
  So there's another really key thing when it comes to if you
• 1:43:31
  want to do the evil campaign thing.
• 1:43:33
  But this is, this is Is somewhat out of your hands as a GM.
• 1:43:37
  This is, this is kind of requires the players, cooperate.
• 1:43:41
  A big thing when it comes to hero and villain archetypes.
• 1:43:46
  Heroes are reactive. Villains are proactive.
• 1:43:51
  Yeah, I was gonna say something like that with the when it comes
• 1:43:55
  to like, the whole idea of fronts.
• 1:43:57
  Yeah. Like, you know, villains are the
• 1:43:58
  movers and shakers of the world are the ones that do things
• 1:44:01
  players, react to it. If you flip that the players now
• 1:44:05
  have to be the ones that got the world laughing because if
• 1:44:10
  nothing bad happens, the hero doesn't need to be a hero.
• 1:44:14
  Something bad's happening. So everything's fine.
• 1:44:16
  So they don't need to pick up their sword and go fuck bitches
• 1:44:18
  up till the villains are proactive.
• 1:44:21
  So normally, when you're running a game, you make your villains,
• 1:44:25
  proactive vecna threatens the world, everyone's gonna die.
• 1:44:28
  Okay, Heroes, get ready, here you go.
• 1:44:29
  Time to go bees s. So be need to if you want to do
• 1:44:33
  the evil campaign thing really well, you need to say your
• 1:44:35
  players. You guys have to do things of
• 1:44:38
  your own impetus based on your own goals, and one of the Ins
• 1:44:44
  that our stars without number of campaign Works was because, my
• 1:44:50
  players we're doing their own shit like they were going after
• 1:44:54
  their own shit. Like as soon as they had a
• 1:44:56
  moment, they'll be like, all right, this is where we going to
• 1:44:58
  do next. This is the next step, like
• 1:44:59
  we're going after this, we're going after that, they had that
• 1:45:02
  proactive nature. So that's the same thing with
• 1:45:05
  again I've mentioned I think I've mentioned this a couple of
• 1:45:08
  times But blades in the dark as a game works.
• 1:45:14
  Best, when you have really proactive players who are trying
• 1:45:16
  to eat their own shit done, who are trying to complete their own
• 1:45:19
  goals, do their own jobs and safe, they say to you, is the
• 1:45:22
  GM. This is what we're going to do
• 1:45:24
  next. That's how that's how that shit
• 1:45:26
  works. So but again, that isn't you
• 1:45:31
  can't or sure players to do that.
• 1:45:34
  You have to tell them if you want this to work, this is
• 1:45:38
  something I need you guys to do. Me.
• 1:45:42
  That's a that's a that's a big. Frick do it, I guess.
• 1:45:48
  Right. I mean Sam.
• 1:45:49
  I'm sure I'm sure you remember, wombat to telling you at various
• 1:45:54
  stages, like all right, you go do this and then I'll go do that
• 1:45:57
  and then we'll do figure out here and then we'll loop back
• 1:45:59
  around to the right. Like, you guys were making plans
• 1:46:01
  all the goddamn time. I just did clear.
• 1:46:04
  Remember the part where they sent your character Sam to go
• 1:46:08
  talk to your, like, the guy who helped you pay for the church
• 1:46:11
  building and we're like, hey bud.
• 1:46:14
  So we can't do business anymore. Yeah, basically broke up with
• 1:46:20
  that poor man. Yeah that was a time.
• 1:46:23
  I remember At that shit. Yeah.
• 1:46:26
  That that That's a big, I don't know.
• 1:46:30
  Maybe, uh, maybe we should just do a whole episode about playing
• 1:46:33
  the evil campaign, but hey, yeah, sort of half did there.
• 1:46:36
  All right. Half is that?
• 1:46:38
  You got Governor, but give me an idea of like, doing like a mini
• 1:46:42
  evil campaign and then build it to another campaign where the
• 1:46:45
  players are. Good guys.
• 1:46:47
  Going after their old characters, who are now like
• 1:46:49
  the, the overlords of the world people that thought, like, it
• 1:46:53
  sounds like a cool idea. I don't know how it would be,
• 1:46:55
  you know, how work on paper, but yeah, you think Secret there.
• 1:46:59
  If you want to do that is you have to make sure that the
• 1:47:03
  players, the, the evil characters, the First characters
• 1:47:06
  they play have a very distinct. We know what we want to get done
• 1:47:12
  goal, like they have to have a very specific goal.
• 1:47:15
  Like this is what we're going to do plan is, you know, get the
• 1:47:20
  hand of vecna and do the ritual. So, we control all of the undead
• 1:47:24
  in the entire land, like they have to have a very succinct
• 1:47:28
  Give for that to work because then once they do that succinct
• 1:47:32
  objective, that is then the inciting incident or the Hero
• 1:47:37
  characters to come in. Whatever that, whatever that
• 1:47:41
  evil goal is, is the inciting incident If people do want what
• 1:47:47
  I like. But inspirational, like reading
• 1:47:50
  the book of vile Darkness, both the Third Edition and the fourth
• 1:47:54
  edition version. Very good.
• 1:47:56
  Very good ideas for both like making villains helping out with
• 1:47:59
  that shit. But also actually running evil
• 1:48:01
  campaigns and like, giving you like some helpful tips and like
• 1:48:06
  goals, and aims and stuff time flipping through them, like just
• 1:48:11
  randomly the other day thinking about this topic.
• 1:48:13
  And I'm like, oh shit, this The good stuff here.
• 1:48:15
  Ima Be honest though real shit here the evil campaign thing, it
• 1:48:21
  ain't that exciting. I've got its kind of written.
• 1:48:25
  I'm gonna be real. It's one of those things where
• 1:48:26
  it's like, it'd be cool to do once or one.
• 1:48:29
  Yeah, you'll do it. Well, I guess someone who's done
• 1:48:31
  it multiple times, it is, it is not that exciting.
• 1:48:33
  It really is, because the reason why do it long term, I just
• 1:48:37
  like, like you kind of said, like the minigames like ten
• 1:48:39
  sessions X. I mean, I did it for a while.
• 1:48:42
  I mean Stars was a good 30 plus sessions.
• 1:48:47
  Yeah. Like for me, I think the novelty
• 1:48:49
  after liked and totally even sooner than that, Yeah.
• 1:48:54
  Oz was fun because there was constantly in players that like
• 1:48:58
  the bounce off of. Yeah.
• 1:48:59
  Hey but whatever 1 z v like the thing.
• 1:49:03
  Yeah I mean like especially Surfer like the started with
• 1:49:06
  that. Number card for me especially
• 1:49:08
  like my character wasn't will evil?
• 1:49:12
  She was just kind of like As an news, happens in a bad
• 1:49:16
  situation, isn't he wasn't trying to stop the evil but he
• 1:49:20
  wasn't trying helping be like she was a neutral party so it
• 1:49:25
  definitely made that one a little bit more interesting for
• 1:49:28
  me. Actually, I like funny because,
• 1:49:30
  like, in video games, I'm like, yeah, I'll do the evil campaign
• 1:49:33
  this time because the good campaign.
• 1:49:34
  Yeah. I think, yeah, because I think
• 1:49:38
  what ends up happening is what you realize is.
• 1:49:41
  The reason that the evil campaign is like, actually not
• 1:49:43
  that good. link is because A lot of what makes stories compelling
• 1:49:50
  is sort of the, the difficult choices and the and the like not
• 1:49:56
  necessarily just moral quandaries but like the idea
• 1:50:00
  that Heroes don't get to take the easy answer every time, but
• 1:50:05
  villains by definition are almost always, gonna go for the
• 1:50:08
  easy answer most of the time. That's so what ends up
• 1:50:13
  happening. When you do the evil campaign
• 1:50:15
  thing is like every cell, every situation gets solved, basically
• 1:50:19
  the same way. So it's sort of loses, the like
• 1:50:24
  fun of it because you're like, oh well, they're just gonna kill
• 1:50:26
  everyone every single time without any question because why
• 1:50:30
  wouldn't they or, or whatever their trick is, you know,
• 1:50:33
  they'll figure out a specific trick and then just do it every
• 1:50:36
  time. For example, it used the Stars
• 1:50:38
  outnumber campaign, Again, by one player.
• 1:50:41
  Who is the psionic he would just mind control.
• 1:50:44
  Everybody. All the goddamn time, Right.
• 1:50:47
  Like everybody. I was just about to get easy,
• 1:50:50
  thank ya. So like, and there was never
• 1:50:53
  any, there's no moral quandary. There's no giving a shit.
• 1:50:56
  There was no, like, feeling bad about it.
• 1:50:58
  There's no concern about how it would come back around to bite
• 1:51:00
  him. He just mind-controlled everyone
• 1:51:01
  that he could all the time. Yep.
• 1:51:04
  So like, that's what ends up happening.
• 1:51:06
  Is the villain characters are like, this is my trick.
• 1:51:08
  It works very well. I'm gonna keep doing it so and
• 1:51:11
  then he runs like the person that's like, you know, Java the
• 1:51:15
  hood, go like your Jedi Mind. Rick's work on me, you're so
• 1:51:19
  funny. You say that, what do you say
• 1:51:20
  that? I had like two sessions where I
• 1:51:22
  threw robots at the characters and that one player with my one
• 1:51:25
  weakness. Yeah.
• 1:51:30
  It was like the whole plate. They was like a campus in the
• 1:51:32
  whole campus. Had robot security about one
• 1:51:34
  player was like, hey looks like, yeah.
• 1:51:37
  Hello. Just like crawling on the floor.
• 1:51:39
  Like, fetal position in life. Your future literally.
• 1:51:42
  All of his abilities were like mind, reading and mind control
• 1:51:45
  basically. So he just can't Could do shit
• 1:51:47
  and do anything. It was pretty was pretty funny.
• 1:51:50
  All right, James, what are you doing?
• 1:51:52
  Hiding in the corner. Yeah, being let me know when
• 1:51:54
  there's a real person. Yeah.
• 1:51:56
  The claptrap wood stairs. The yeah.
• 1:52:00
  Yeah. I mean you know do it for a time
• 1:52:02
  but yeah. Not his probably not going to be
• 1:52:06
  as cool or funny as you think you.
• 1:52:08
  Yeah. And the other thing too, is the
• 1:52:11
  reason so many players want to do the quote unquote evil
• 1:52:14
  campaign is because they just want to have a couple of
• 1:52:16
  sessions. Ins where they can like babies
• 1:52:18
  and not feel bad about it. That's all.
• 1:52:20
  Yeah. And then once I get it out of
• 1:52:21
  their system figure be like a all right.
• 1:52:25
  Yeah, that's why I definitely think.
• 1:52:26
  Like not long term. I mean the idea of using it
• 1:52:30
  towards something like you were talking about Matt and that's
• 1:52:33
  going to work, that'll work way better?
• 1:52:35
  Yeah. Is that has like a very specific
• 1:52:37
  purpose. You know, I guess.
• 1:52:45
  Hey, any any closing thoughts guys on bad, guys?
• 1:52:49
  Villains will characters, evil organizations, anything video
• 1:52:53
  games. Anything we kind of talked about
• 1:52:54
  today. Is this episode like like all of
• 1:52:56
  those I fucking host. I've been all over the place.
• 1:53:03
  Yes, they are. But I think a good villain.
• 1:53:17
  AR. Raisin looking for occurring.
• 1:53:28
  Well no not that but like it Villains are good because they
• 1:53:34
  feel natural. Like, it feels like someone who
• 1:53:37
  oh, oh, I can sort of, I get it. When you try really hard to make
• 1:53:42
  a villain, Uber engaging or for complex multifaceted.
• 1:53:48
  They often just sort of like weird np-hard emps, a good
• 1:53:54
  villain. Do you have an idea?
• 1:53:57
  You have like a promise? Maybe for me it's a lot of time.
• 1:53:59
  It's a personality like the sleazy mobs.
• 1:54:04
  I fucked up and I'm just trying to help.
• 1:54:09
  And just let them go to their logical conclusion.
• 1:54:11
  That's really what a villain is Right?
• 1:54:13
  Villain is a person who pushed in.
• 1:54:15
  Yeah, it was like, yeah, right. It's someone who's hit rock
• 1:54:19
  bottom. And they're like, well, you
• 1:54:21
  know, I want to protect everybody at becomes.
• 1:54:24
  I want to like it dictator, who keep Everyone likes safe, but
• 1:54:28
  they have no free will. No, that was facing one of the
• 1:54:31
  big pads in my game. Yeah, it's that, it's, that it's
• 1:54:35
  the AI quandary, right of like, How do you save Humanity?
• 1:54:38
  AI comes to the conclusion. You have to destroy Humanity to
• 1:54:41
  save them. Yep.
• 1:54:43
  Right. Is that old thing.
• 1:54:44
  It's the fucking. I mean, it's the personal
• 1:54:46
  Ultron, it's the universal will engage Guilty Gear, but we're
• 1:54:50
  not gonna go down that road right now but you know, that's
• 1:54:52
  what that was. Um, here's yeah, it kinda and
• 1:54:56
  kind of bouncing off what Isaiah said.
• 1:55:00
  Yeah. They don't have to be complex or
• 1:55:03
  crazy, or like, super everything.
• 1:55:06
  Like I said, they just Have to be compelling.
• 1:55:08
  So the idea of the guy who decides the only way to save
• 1:55:12
  everyone is for me to become a. Psycho fact, fascist dictator is
• 1:55:16
  a compelling villain especially if you find out that the reason
• 1:55:20
  that they're like, the reason that they have that thought or
• 1:55:22
  think that's a good idea is because o, my entire family was
• 1:55:26
  brutally murdered and you know, no one in the monarchy had the
• 1:55:30
  power to do anything because of like there was too much legal
• 1:55:32
  red tape, or whatever. So that brought me down this
• 1:55:35
  path of like well what if you just had all the power?
• 1:55:37
  power and you didn't need to worry about the right like yeah,
• 1:55:40
  they have to have a compelling idea to them but that's not like
• 1:55:45
  Like that premise, right there is enough.
• 1:55:46
  You don't need to go any more complicated than that.
• 1:55:48
  Like, you don't need to add any layers to that, you know, you
• 1:55:51
  could start adding layers and be like, oh and also the people who
• 1:55:53
  killed my family was my father but also my father worships a
• 1:55:57
  death cult and also the death goes trying to control the
• 1:55:59
  world's like no, we don't need all those layers them.
• 1:56:02
  Yep. It's neat.
• 1:56:02
  That they just need a compelling premise fucking shit.
• 1:56:10
  An example, I did just went out my brain.
• 1:56:14
  Well, that was like that, damn it.
• 1:56:17
  Some of the related to the idea of like the whatever.
• 1:56:22
  Anyway, it doesn't matter. Yeah, you know, they don't need
• 1:56:24
  to be y'alls. Also, just as a slight aside to
• 1:56:31
  that one, your villain does not need to be morally grey to be
• 1:56:35
  interesting or compelling. It can't just be straight up
• 1:56:38
  evil and still be compelling. Like I just it's still a
• 1:56:42
  difficult thing. I think, man, I say last time we
• 1:56:45
  did the Villa episode. We both Read like the straight
• 1:56:47
  up. Like I'm evil characters just
• 1:56:49
  more fun to run as a DM. It can be just as compelling if
• 1:56:52
  not more. So than the from.
• 1:56:54
  Yeah. From a, from a purely, from a
• 1:56:57
  D&D just I want to play the game standpoint.
• 1:57:00
  Having a villain who's just straight up evil.
• 1:57:03
  Can often be fun because players just want to roll dice hate guy.
• 1:57:07
  Yeah, it works. Yeah, that's the funny thing
• 1:57:09
  about a lot of tabletop games is often the very simple
• 1:57:16
  straightforward villain is just better and it's actually really
• 1:57:23
  hard to try and do the like complicated morally gray villain
• 1:57:27
  time you're better off, not doing it just, you know, like
• 1:57:35
  Sam, what about you Boom, cool. Thanks, Iris.
• 1:57:41
  That nice. I'm done.
• 1:57:45
  I was a, I mean yeah. Some feelings are like some
• 1:57:47
  villain suck. Oh, bad eye.
• 1:57:51
  You can definitely also ruin a villain.
• 1:57:57
  Don't don't try too hard. Don't don't try to force a
• 1:58:01
  really good Villa. Don't overthink it hmm.
• 1:58:03
  Yeah. It started.
• 1:58:04
  Thank you. And that's the best way to say
• 1:58:06
  just don't overthink it. Yeah.
• 1:58:08
  It's it's not it's not the end of the world if your villain is
• 1:58:12
  mediocre but it does suck when players don't like Sam.
• 1:58:17
  You just said, mediocre and all I could think of was immortan
• 1:58:20
  Joe mediocre actually. I think it was Joe Right.
• 1:58:28
  An evil ghost evil. He's great.
• 1:58:29
  Great. Just did a real loud.
• 1:58:33
  Real evil ones. Got a good aesthetic and Wild
• 1:58:36
  Things. Usually go, right.
• 1:58:38
  I'm just asking best fucking mad maximum possible Ki.
• 1:58:42
  Maybe, maybe we should do an episode where we just look at
• 1:58:44
  like media villains and think about how you can reinterpret
• 1:58:47
  them for tabletop. Yeah, I thought of that, for
• 1:58:49
  this episode to, but I'm like, yeah.
• 1:58:51
  The guys probably won't go for that, but maybe next time.
• 1:58:55
  Yeah, I'm down. Got that one down.
• 1:58:57
  Since I just said, all right. But Chloe closing out and
• 1:59:02
  closing out. But yeah, film villains.
• 1:59:05
  Those entities, that Adam is that Village can be bills.
• 1:59:17
  Could be villains. Thank you everybody for watching
• 1:59:20
  watching. Listening listening to One Day
• 1:59:23
  using using using the eyes. I attached the size of your
• 1:59:27
  head. Yeah.
• 1:59:31
  Sighs that you here with your hearing eyes.
• 1:59:33
  Aha. Hey yeah, that's why here guys
• 1:59:37
  just you. Yeah, thanks.
• 1:59:38
  Thanks for. Thanks for listening to another
• 1:59:40
  episode. Like Josh said, you know, don't
• 1:59:41
  forget to subscribe if you're listening to us on YouTube and I
• 1:59:45
  was giving giving us giving us some stars on Spotify, you know,
• 1:59:49
  if you like some, you like the star system they have also
• 1:59:52
  apparently we found out recently, you can have comments
• 1:59:54
  now so give us a. Give me a mobile Spotify though.
• 1:59:58
  Only on mobile. We on motive.
• 2:00:00
  Mobile, which is really dumb but yes you can leave comments in
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  inclined to tell us why we're all retarded idiot stupid poopoo
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  heads. You can leave that on Spotify
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  down or on YouTube Stitch a you like or you or you can follow us
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  on Twitter and tweet it straight As mmm.
• 2:00:17
  But yeah, as been this episode sessions canceled, have a good
• 2:00:21
  one. And now for my watch JoJo,
• 2:00:24
  number 15, Tiamat