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Transcript

The New Therapist · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Hello? Hello. Hi. I need you.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I was beginning to think the school had eaten you up. You look beautiful, by the way. That's really lovely. The house with
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: the green Well, thank you.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Francis Let me draw my hands.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: I know there's not really enough time, but I wanna tell you my story. Can I tell you my story? Yes. Are you sure? Absolutely.
• 1:34
  Do we need to drive to the school first so that we're there or we have enough time?
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know what time it is right now.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: It's, like, 02:40 already.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: We we don't have to drive over, like, 03:15.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's enough time. Come sit by me. Please, I love you.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: You look so happy.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: I kind of am on accident. It's all a trick therapy is. Okay. We're gonna record. Are you ready?
• 2:03
  Sure. Okay. I have to tell you my story.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Please do.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: I can't even breathe. I don't even know where to start. The beginning. Very good
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: place
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: to
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: start. So
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: I went to therapy thinking well, first of all, because we're still just getting started, all we've done so far is, like, paperwork and crying. Like, it's ridiculous.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: That's an important beginning step.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: But because all this is going on with our daughter, I almost said her name, sorry. Because everything's going on with our daughter, I thought that's what we're gonna talk about. So why go to therapy? Because if that's what I'm gonna talk about, we can do that in family therapy and everything is fine. Right?
• 2:54
  Because avoidance. Mhmm. I'm good at it, you know.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. It served you well so far.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: So that's what I thought was gonna happen. Just because it's a big deal, we have we went through everything at Cincinnati and well, you know, it was there.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I do know.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Like getting life flighted there, being stuck in that room with
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: It was hard.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. For four months, three months, whatever it was, it was just brutal. And so just all of those times we've been through this with her, I thought that's what we were gonna talk about. So we get there, and no, it's the week we're supposed to transfer, like officially, like make a phone call to
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: The other therapist?
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: The therapist.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: What? So we have to sign a release, of course, like she does everything properly. We have to sign a release. Only we only signed it for just today because nothing's her business.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Wow. Okay.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: So we didn't have any records sent, we didn't ask the therapist to write anything up, we're like, we're gonna call and you have ten minutes. I feel like that's fairly cooperative on our part. Okay, so we do that, and then we have to call the therapist. So, we're sitting there. No.
• 4:24
  Yes, okay. Stop. So we're sitting there and she starts calling the therapist and we are freaking out because we don't even call therapists. Right? Yeah.
• 4:38
  We have poured our hearts into notebooks, which is a good step away from the therapist. Like, there's some distance there, right? Like, it's safe, it's contained. Also, we don't have to talk about the notebooks in therapy. So it's been mostly very easy and safe.
• 4:57
  We only called her the one time with you Mhmm. As far as I know. Right? Can you think of another time besides a year ago?
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's the only time I know of.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Right? Me too. I can't I mean, even like asking around, I can't think of another time we'd call the therapist. And then, we text her sometimes, but our social skills are terrible, so that doesn't even work well. Right?
• 5:27
  Just too many introverts on the phone, like, just why bother? Okay. So this is a big deal. Like, even right now, talking about it, look, hives. Hives all over hives.
• 5:41
  Because we have to use the phone, number one, deaf person, number two, and oh, social skills, and actually calling the therapist and talking directly. Except, of course, what do we do? We don't talk.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: That sounds about right.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: And so the therapist and the new lady, which is what we call her on the podcast
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, nice.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: They're like countering crickets. Because they're both being safe and respectful of us, which is good and right, but we don't know how to start it. So finally, we're like, I don't know how to start this or what we're supposed to do. And so somehow, the new lady asks questions. The therapist, like, gives a very brief but safe overview without giving away any pieces.
• 6:34
  And so all of that went fine, except that as soon as we heard her voice sobbing, waterworks, it was awful. Except we're like, no. We're fine. We're fine. Everything's fine.
• 6:48
  Everything's fine. And so, like, on the outside, nothing is happening except tears are just pouring. Like, so disconnected from what was happening and could not reconnect. Like, it was so big. The feelings were so big.
• 7:02
  I can't even tell you. And so, like, after the phone call, which all went very well, actually, by the way. They were both rock stars. But after the phone call, she, of course, is like, clearly, there's some loss issues. Like, okay.
• 7:18
  First of all, our daughter, missing therapist, dead parent, other stuff, miscarriages. Like, there's a lot of loss issues. And so this is obviously triggering some of that, which is fine. That's what we're there for in therapy to work on nastiness. And I don't mean my mouth.
• 7:41
  So she kinda talks about that generally, like, in an in an acknowledging kind of way, but does not push at all. So, like, she's good. She's doing that right.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: She's doing that well, and I appreciate that. Like, I recognize that that she's trying to make me feel safe even though we shall never engage.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: That sounds productive.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Hush now, child. And so I don't even remember what happens next. No. Do. It's about remembering.
• 8:19
  Okay. And so we talk about that very generally, but then she's like, something about, what are you feeling right now? And we're missing her. And what is it like when you miss her? And I don't remember what we said.
• 8:34
  But then basically, she's like trying to validate our feelings or whatever of it makes sense we miss her, of course we miss her, and it's okay to miss her, we have permission to miss her. Even on the phone, she said that she still supports us and made it very clear that she's still there. We haven't actually lost her even though it feels like we lost her, which means, like she says, our feelings are lying to us. So she acknowledges all those things, but then she's like, so I'm the new lady now. She doesn't really say that.
• 9:09
  That's my paraphrase. She she's like, I'm the new lady now, so I think I can help you all with that. Do you want help with that? And I'm like, smack smack smack. You know, like on the princess on Mario.
• 9:24
  I do not say that out loud, but I can produce an image that can be seen and felt.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Sorry, Mario. The altar you're looking for is in a different castle.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So, what are we supposed to say? No.
• 9:47
  Can we leave now? Because that's what I wanna say.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: It's kind of what I would expect you to say.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Right? You're welcome. And so, of course, we're like, okay. Whatever. Sure.
• 9:57
  Help us. That's why we're here. Thanks for being a therapist. I don't know. What do you do?
• 10:03
  Like, it's anyway, this whole let's be nice to you and respectful and give permission and consent and all that, it's very tiresome. This nurturing stuff, I don't like it at all. Okay. Sorry. Why are you looking at me like that?
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: No. Say it out loud.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: No. I was just thinking about survival techniques and how for some of you that is how you survive. By rejecting help and rejecting nurturing because those things were never safe in your past.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Wait, say that again.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I was just listening to you thinking about survival skills and how some of you have survived by rejecting help and rejecting nurturing and rejecting those kinds of relationships because they were never safe. And in order to protect yourself, like to really save your own life, you chose to fight against those things and to reject even things like consent. Like consent is for wimps.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I don't even like you. I don't know who you think you are. And I do not need therapy from you. I am here to tell a story.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: You asked.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Well, no more asking, mister nice guy. So the story I'm trying to tell you, which is very important
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Is that she basically is like, I can help with that. Like, okay, powerful therapist, do your magic. Only then she does. She's like, tell me about the therapist's office. Only it's really funny because the first time she said that, she actually said the therapist, like it's capitalized because she listened to the podcast before, and I was like, woah, you can't say that anymore.
• 12:16
  Have to say her name. Because in real life, we don't actually call her The That's only for the podcast, and we will protect her name to our death. Anyway, she starts asking us questions about our office, and being the good participant that I am, we do not respond at all out loud. Nothing. She gets nothing from us.
• 12:40
  The new lady, nothing. It's just the delivery guy, mister PTSD. That's what we call projection. Projection.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I was scared the children were home.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, that
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: is way scary. Okay. So, she gets nothing from us. So, we're not answering her out loud. But, it's like she knows we're participating and has figured it out because she keeps asking questions.
• 13:09
  And so she's like, what does a therapist's office look like? Where do you usually sit? How does it feel when you sit there? How do you feel in her office? What do you see?
• 13:21
  What do you hear? What does it sound like? All these different things. Well, that made me want peppermint, but that's not part of my story right now. And so she's asking more and more detailed questions like, where does the therapist sit?
• 13:39
  What does her chair look like? Does she have a table by her chair? What does that look like? All of these specific details. And the more she asked, the more it starts coming back, which is crazy because it's almost like it was fading away.
• 13:56
  And so she's asking more and more questions, and then she's like, you know, you know anyone who doesn't wanna talk to me is still welcome here, even if you don't wanna talk to me. And I'm like, you cannot see me, magic lady. And she's like, but even if you don't wanna talk to me, you can still participate in this. If you want to remember the therapist's office, then everyone who wants to participate, think about what you remember about the therapist. So she gets more and more detailed, and then she's like, Now watch my hand.
• 14:46
  Shut the front door. I'm not even kidding. She puts her hand up like this, like a u in sign language, and she's like, except she doesn't make the sound effects.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was just gonna ask.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: That's just for you right now. Just like one pass across and another pass across and then down. Like really, really safe and gentle, which is what prevented me from slapping her. And I'm kidding. I'm not violent in therapy.
• 15:19
  I couldn't even move. We're deadweight in therapy. It's bad. Oh, like our son with the attachment disorder. I wonder if that means anything.
• 15:28
  You know how we couldn't pick him up? Yes. Because he wouldn't wrap around That's pretty much us in therapy. We're like, deadweight. Okay, let's not talk about attachment right now.
• 15:42
  Anyway, so she's like, and how did that make you feel? And I'm like, like a unicorn. I didn't say that. I did not say that.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Did you say that? Because that would've been awesome.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: I did not say that because that would require admitting my presence. These therapists are sneaky. You have to hide good.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: But does somebody else say it?
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: No. I didn't Oh, so
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: you come out of that.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: I'm sure someone heard me. But the body did not speak those words.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: I have not shown my sassy pants there. Not happening. So she does it and she's like, how did that feel? Does everyone still feel safe? And I did not flip her off or anything.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: You're welcome. Very classy. And then so she's like, let's do that again and we'll practice. It's like building a muscle. And so she's like starting to think about the therapist's office again.
• 16:48
  This is your safe place. You get to keep it as a safe place and talking to everybody. And upper hand goes back into the sign language you. And then this time she goes just a little bit faster and does it like four times instead of only two times. And then her hand down.
• 17:04
  And then she's like, am I awesome or what? No. That's not what she said.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Feel like reality has become very fluid here. The inside of the head and the outside of the head are blurring.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Exactly. That's my whole problem in life right now. Oh my goodness. And so, like, she keeps asking more and more detailed questions, and each time she does it a little bit longer and a little bit faster. Not fast at all by any means.
• 17:41
  But she does it, and it's like, what is happening? It's like if you were in a dark room, and then you were like, oh, I think I'm not depressed anymore, and I'll go outside and stand in the sun. Because all of a sudden, we're learning things and realizing things and connecting things and working co conscious together in a crazy way I don't even know how to explain that totally blew my brains out and so that we're remembering all kinds of things we didn't even know. Like, we're remembering like, we know we painted there. We know we played football there.
• 18:19
  We know that we spent a lot of not time not talking. No. We remember laughing and crying and arguing with her. That was me. I remember.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Can say no surprises so far.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: You know what, though? She never hated on me. Not once. Even my sassy pants. She'd call me out though like nobody's business.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: The therapist.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so like, it's like all of a sudden, we just remember. And so here's the crazy crazy part. So she's like, you can keep this place, and you can still feel safe. And she says something.
• 19:01
  This is the crazy part. She says something that reminds me specifically of when you were talking to us a couple weeks ago, and, like, when we first got home from California, and you, like, gave us the tree house inside for Dawn. Mhmm. And it was like all of a sudden, the inside of the tree house was the therapist's office.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: How crazy is that?
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's beautiful.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: I don't even know how that works. Aw.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I I love that I got to be a part of that.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Yes. It was amazing. And so it's like, it's there, And now it's been however long it took me to drive home and stop and get our lunch and bring you and, like, run up the stairs and come shout at you. It's been all that time, and I keep waiting for it to go away, but it's not going away. Like, we still remember all of those things.
• 20:04
  Mhmm. And I can even see her face in my head and hear her voice, which we could not do before we went to therapy today. Wow.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: How trippy is that? And is the I don't know what names are available for using on the podcast. But is the one that I gave the tree house to, is she okay with the new decor?
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Well, but we didn't run away. Yeah. She's there. Like, that's how it happened.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Like, that's where she wants to stay.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Wow. And a goodbye is not the same as running away.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Right? You haven't been abandoned. You haven't been failed. You haven't been threatened. It was it was a goodbye in a new kind of way.
• 20:57
  And that's beautiful that she specifically has made that connection. That's wonderful.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Well, but that's part of it too in that I think this whole time while we were grieving the loss of the therapist, we were still also kind of resenting that we had to leave and kind of angry that we couldn't pull it off, but it was just too much to ask of us and our family. And so I think there was some, like, a lot of big feelings about why we couldn't why we had to do this. But it's really about our family, which means, like, that's a healthy, progressive step in the right direction that is appropriate and good and is not about her leaving us or quitting or getting mad at us or firing us or leaving us or abandoning us, and it's not about us quitting or running away. Yeah. Like, it's really just about being healthy and transitioning to do the work.
• 22:03
  And I know that, like, we get that with the new therapist, the new lady, it's going to be different. It's not going to be the same, but it's also gonna be okay.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: And we're okay.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: And it was crazy powerful, and it still feels as legit and solid and real as it did when we left.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: That's good.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: How crazy is that?
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: That's my story. The Reader's Digest version.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: It's a good story.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: You have to hear the podcast for the whole thing.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Now, you gonna do me, like, the the laughter the best medicine section at the end of the article?
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Oh, I will do you.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Well, well, well.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm sorry. I I I'm feeling pretty feisty.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I can tell.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: It's too bad we have to go pick up the children from school. Also, oh, oh, seriously? Speaking of that, there were no dongles. Just Good. Also, the family therapist said that we could call them buzzers.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. That makes sense.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: My friend Megan called them something else, and now I can't remember what she called them. But she had a different word that her therapist called them.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: You could just make up a word. They're plebs.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. It was really, really good. It was crazy good.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: And here's the other piece that was hilarious. Like, it somehow upped the safety so through the charts that, like, I came out just in love with everybody. Like, I love the therapist. I love I love my friend, I love you, I even love the children. They're not home yet though.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: That helps.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: But, like, I was just full of, like, everything's okay, everybody should eat ice cream.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yay.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Like, was awesome.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: It's really good.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: Crazy, right?
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's wonderful. Congratulations.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: Thanks. Can we be done now?
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: I think we're all better.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, I thought you meant done with the podcast.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: No. I mean done with therapy. We did it.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Because remember, that is just a step. There's even more goodness to come. Yeah. That was not the finish line.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Oh, it was totally the finish line. I feel better. We're good. Done.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: No. That was like the first cup of Gatorade as you run by that you slosh on yourself.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: But that was good. Do you want more good?
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: It was brutal though.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: More feelings of happiness and safety and openness?
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Well, not openness. I didn't put that on the list. You put that on
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: the list. It's true. You know, pretty soon your inner your inner house structure is gonna be like a sorority house. They're just gonna be partying all the time. Everybody's gonna be friends with each other.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: I don't wanna be friends with anybody.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Can you be friends with yourself?
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: No. You cannot trick me.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: It's true. I cannot trick you.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: Hey, also happy Valentine's Day.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: You too. Aw. I'm painting something for you upstairs.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Are you kidding me?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not kidding you.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Aw. Well, guess what I got you for Valentine's Day? Children. Yes. Let's go get them.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: You are totally gonna win therapy. That therapist is going down.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Yes. I win therapy. Ka ching.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemspeak.com. We'll see you there.