Latest / The Regulars / WNBA Scandal, ESPN Shakeup & A Week of Sports Firestorms

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WNBA Scandal, ESPN Shakeup & A Week of Sports Firestorms · The Regulars

• 0:00
  What can we say? We got WNBA drama,
• 0:04
  we got ESPN firing drama, and we got just all-around
• 0:08
  sports drama. Dear God, Tonya Rae Fox, it's a Tuesday and
• 0:13
  it feels like a Monday. I'm Cody Decker, this is The Regulars.
• 0:17
  I'm Tonya Rae Fox. It really does feel like a Monday.
• 0:20
  Cheers, let's do this. Let's Tanya
• 0:31
  Ray, Tanya Ray. Us doing this show bicoastal,
• 0:35
  look at us, we are just such good professionals. By the way,
• 0:38
  like, share, and subscribe, yada yada yada. Hit that alert button over
• 0:42
  there on YouTube letting you know anytime that we are live. Tanya Ray, how's Boston?
• 0:46
  Because LA is fucking scorching hot. I can't sleep,
• 0:50
  it's fucking just heat waving it up, air conditioning isn't fucking
• 0:54
  working. I want to fucking punch everybody.
• 1:02
  I can't hear you all of a sudden. Can you hear me?
• 1:07
  Hold on, are we there? Yeah, there she is.
• 1:12
  Listen, I'm not used to having to do my own sound. We usually have Mocha.
• 1:15
  That's what we got Mocha for, and goddamn, do I miss Mocha.
• 1:19
  Okay, so I didn't know that, uh, I haven't been paying attention to
• 1:22
  the weather in Los Angeles. I've been out of the loop, and Um,
• 1:26
  it is pouring rain here and thundering currently,
• 1:30
  so I don't know if you're gonna be able to hear that or not.
• 1:32
  Hopefully my mic can't pick it up, but I can't hear it at all.
• 1:34
  So I'll take this. Tell me about this. Your AC is out in
• 1:38
  the studio? No, no, thank God it's working in the studio. This place would be
• 1:42
  fucking on fire if it wasn't. I got lights all over me. Thank God my
• 1:46
  split— my split vac that I put in this thing a few months back is
• 1:49
  absolutely kicking ass. Not taking names, it's too busy kicking ass.
• 1:53
  That being said, yeah, it's fucking hot here in LA. Really hot here in LA.
• 1:57
  The house inside is actually like 81 degrees. I got every fan
• 2:01
  rolling right now. The AC is not working in there. I'm down at the girlfriend's
• 2:05
  place down in Hermosa. There's no AC there either. That's like a hot box.
• 2:08
  So I actually went and borrowed somebody else's AC unit to put in her
• 2:13
  house bedroom. But here's the problem. It's bringing all like the pollen and everything
• 2:17
  from outside. So she's hacking up a lung because all this like fungus and shit
• 2:21
  that's like being sprouted in LA because it's so goddamn hot, it's just
• 2:25
  making her sick. So I can't sleep because it's too fucking hot. She can't
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  sleep because she can't stop sneezing. Fuck this fucking town right now, huh?
• 2:33
  Why is everyone's AC going out? I have no idea.
• 2:37
  I guess Los Angeles forgot that it never has winter and it's always fucking hot
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  here. But what are you gonna do? Listen, I've, I've dealt with worse. Look on
• 2:45
  the bright side. Look, just look on the bright side. No matter what, at the
• 2:47
  end of the day, Tanya, at the end of the day, fucking— ah,
• 2:52
  The Odyssey was incredible. Like, it just— seeing it tomorrow,
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  it was just fucking incredible. Right now I'm on YouTube putting, uh, uh,
• 2:57
  out-of-context spoilers on there, and they're
• 3:01
  very out of context, spoken entirely through GIFs. I feel really
• 3:05
  good about my work. Um, I'm seeing it tomorrow. You're gonna—
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  I, I expect a phone call. I cannot— at noon. Oh,
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  I can't wait for you to see this. I'm really, really, really excited. I'm wondering
• 3:16
  what your favorite thing is going to be. I, I told you, I can't get
• 3:19
  enough of the sound design in it, but then again, I'm a fucking weirdo,
• 3:21
  so what are you gonna do? I mean, I'm excited, uh, for all of it.
• 3:25
  We are going to a good theater. It's gonna be an
• 3:29
  experience. My mom and I, we are thing when we go to the movies
• 3:33
  is we get acai bowls and we sneak in acai bowls for
• 3:38
  the theater. We also get popcorn, but we start off with an acai
• 3:41
  bowl. It's like a whole thing. By the way, it's actually kind of funny because
• 3:44
  Chance is looking at the studio right here. But by the way, those of you
• 3:48
  that don't know, this is the same studio that Tanya and I are always in.
• 3:50
  Let me give you full context. They say Chance just said nice pool table.
• 3:53
  Yeah, this, guys, this pool table is always here.
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  This is actually what we look at when we're— our studio's
• 4:01
  over here, our corner over here, our booth. This, this is just everything
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  else. This is the rest of our studio that we have yet to
• 4:08
  really debut but plan to, Tanya.
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  Absolutely. We, we, we just have to get ambitious with, um,
• 4:15
  with— well, we have, we have— I mean, we're already starting
• 4:20
  our planning for Super Bowl 2027
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  stuff where we're— because Everybody's gonna be in town, they're gonna be in our
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  neck of the woods. We have the cool studio, we have
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  this— I mean, we're getting it set up for guests. It's a thing.
• 4:34
  We're gonna be doing some shit. It's gonna be a lot of fun. We might—
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  because we also don't realize this, we have a pool out here. This might turn
• 4:40
  into the regulars pool party. You never fucking know.
• 4:44
  Why not? We have the technology, take advantage.
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  And we have what— I mean, you have screens in every corner of that,
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  uh, property, so everywhere. And everywhere. We're golden.
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  That being said, uh, Tanya, a lot to cover today. Uh, only so
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  much time left in the world before this all fucking implodes and collapses on itself.
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  So, uh, let's fucking get to it, man. Headline number
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  1. Yeah, uh, so I've talked about this a little bit,
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  but I'm excited to talk to you about it.
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  Um, uh, over the last few days we've been
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  seeing the Sandy Brondello WNBA drama
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  play out. Um, Sandy Brondello was suspended a game for
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  her, uh, comment regarding Angel Reese
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  in a game against the Dream. Uh, this is the head coach of the Toronto
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  Tempo, and, uh, in, in the heat of a moment talking
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  to the officials, she called Angel Reese a protected
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  species. Angel Reese, after this whole deal,
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  went to social media and said, are we surprised, with a clown face
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  emoji. It all blew up. Sandy Brondello pretty swiftly,
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  uh, issued an apology for her words,
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  talked about how she really respects the Black women in the league. She's obviously played
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  in the league, she's coached in the league for a long time, and it
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  was issued a 1-game suspension. Yeah. And the— understandably,
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  the discourse has continued to, uh, you know,
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  uh, over the course of the last couple of days.
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  Angel Reese herself said she was, uh,
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  grateful for the suspension. She said there's no place for discrimination
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  or hate in the league from anyone, from fans to coaches to players, and I'm
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  just grateful that we are able to move on from the situation and play winning
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  basketball. She added the WNBA is supposed to be positive and
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  we are going in a great light right now, so I just want to continue
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  and move forward. And I don't know if you watched, uh,
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  the the video where she made these comments, but it was very pretty
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  clear that she was a little bit rattled by the whole situation. She was
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  obviously outspoken about being,
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  uh, thrown by the comment. And, um, I, I felt like,
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  at least from my perspective, it looked like she was a little bit rattled when
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  she was accepting sort of like, hey, this apology happened, I'm glad the suspension
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  happened, I want to keep playing basketball. Um, and sort of the latest
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  development is, uh, the perhaps the, the most successful
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  and most famous in terms of name recognition head coach in
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  the WNBA, Becky Hammon, um, issued a,
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  a comment about Sandy in the last— I think it was yesterday.
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  She said, yeah, I saw it. I just gave her a big hug when I
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  saw her. I know that's not where her heart is. I know her as a
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  very, very highly quality person, somebody that's filled with a lot of love for everybody.
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  I know she's probably pretty tore up and crushed about the whole situation.
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  She'll bounce back. I know she's resilient. It's unfortunate everything that's kind
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  of going around the league. I'd like to get back to sports uniting people.
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  Um, I think you and I can agree that we
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  love sports because of it uniting people. I think that that's what
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  most sports fans genuinely actually really like sports for.
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  I would agree. Um, I do think that we're entering
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  some interesting territory.
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  I want to hear your thoughts on the matter. Um, I have pretty—
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  I will be honest before we get into it, I have some pretty strong
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  opinions on where— on this. Well, I'd love to hear those, and it's gonna take
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  a lot to sway. I'm not looking to sway anybody. I, I, I know the
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  context of the entire situation. Um, I,
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  I— she— I, I did hear her apology, and she— and
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  she did seem pretty, uh, Brandella did seem pretty adamant and
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  even broken up, seemed broken up herself. That being said, I mean
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  this from the bottom of my heart. I've never heard the phrase a protected species
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  kind of used in the sporting context before. Um, she even kind of
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  said, oh, that's just a thing we used to say. I'm like, is it?
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  I— because I'm not gonna lie to you, um, I've just
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  never fucking heard that one time. And I've been around for,
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  I'd like to think, a pretty long fucking time. I never one time heard
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  that in baseball. And fuck, that is a hefty racist sport
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  in its, in its history, to say the least. So I want to
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  give her the benefit of the doubt, but I gotta tell you, I'm having a
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  lot of trouble doing so. The other problem is though about it though,
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  I mean, like you said, she's played in this league, she's, she coaches a
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  ton of African-American girls, she's played with— so
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  it's just like I'm really kind of conflicted. Like, I want to give her the
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  benefit of the doubt, but I'm, I feel like I'm so jaded with everything else
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  around sports that I like, I feel foolish for even trying to
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  do so. So by all means, I feel like I can very much be swayed
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  right now. Um, that being said, I don't know if I should be swayed.
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  I, I didn't see the context of the video of her saying it also,
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  which I freely admit kind of keeps me in a blind spot.
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  Um, I'm not trying to play like even keel
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  here. I just, I don't really know what to make of
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  this because on the surface it looks fucking bad. Like real
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  fucking bad. Like Are you fucking kidding me? If you said that
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  about one of my Black teammates, I probably would have fucking gone apeshit in the
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  moment, depending on what the— maybe
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  not even depending on what the— forget the context. Content's not the word,
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  but the tone, I suppose. But even that, I feel like, is flimsy saying that
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  out loud as well. The words are the words. So it's just, man,
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  maybe you could shed a little bit more light and context on this for me
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  because Like I said, I'd like to defend her
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  based on her history and how much respect she does have based on her history,
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  but the fuck is this? Yeah, I mean,
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  Cody, you're kind of dead on here.
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  Uh, Sandy has a, you know,
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  reputation aside, an obligation to not
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  put Black players in this situation. Now, you and I both know that
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  Angel Reese has, since she was in college,
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  had a lot of racialized hate thrown her way. She is
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  one of the players— a ton— men, women across
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  sports who has experienced the most sort of racial discrimination and
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  conversation around her career. So right there, we're already starting
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  off bad, right? Like, this is a player who has already
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  had to endure a lot on that front. So for it
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  to be aimed at Angel Reese specifically, you're already starting,
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  you know, in a bad spot. You're already starting in a place where, where the
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  benefit of the doubt is going to be hard to give because you said a
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  racialized thing in the United States. This is a racialized
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  term toward a player who's already experienced a lot of, uh,
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  of, uh, anti-Black racist hate. Now we're
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  going to talk about whether or not this is a common phrase in Australia.
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  Now I've done as much due diligence as I can. According to a lot
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  of white Australians, this is something that is said very often
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  in sports, in rugby and certain sports over there, to denote
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  a player who is getting special treatment or getting sort of let off
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  easy in sports. Now, that being said, I have— hearing that phrase
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  and the context, I can— I'm
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  doing mental gymnastics— can definitely see how
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  that might be a concept. That's the thing, Cody, is like, we don't need to
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  do mental gymnastics. And I think that's what very often it is, is that we
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  all feel this obligation to do mental gymnastics to explain why somebody who
• 12:27
  we think is well-meaning might have said something fucking awful, right? And the reality
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  is, Cody, she— you know, a lot
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  of white Australians say this. Now, Australia is an incredibly racist
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  country. Yes. Um, when I make a— you know, I make a lot of,
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  uh, anti-racism videos. It's, it's sort of part
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  of my platform is talking about anti-racism and how to implement it and how to
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  recognize racism in sports. That is my specific
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  sort of niche within the larger sports media atmosphere. And so when
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  I do that, there are, are people from across the world who will come into
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  my comments, and a lot of Indigenous Australians have said,
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  yeah, I relate so much to the Black and
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  Indigenous American experience because of so, so and so. And so this is not my
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  first time encountering that. Yeah, I did do a couple of studies on
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  the indigenous people of Australia, like, I— especially during the World War II time,
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  during my studies of that. Um, yeah, that's a— that— you want
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  one of the ugliest histories in the world, it's, it's bad. It's, it's that— the
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  Aborigine people in Australia. Yeah, it's bad. And, um,
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  so when I— so I'm always skeptical when a group of
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  white people from any country come into the comment section and
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  say, oh, it's not racist. First of all, white people nowhere, no how, or ever
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  are ever the arbiters of what's racist. If you want to talk about anti-Semitism
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  specifically, there are white, uh, Jews who can
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  talk to and who can speak to anti-Semitism specifically,
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  but they are not of a nation, right? Like, this is not— like,
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  if you're talking about a specific nation, that's just simply not the case. The white
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  people are not the arbiters of what's racist. And so I'm always going to
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  listen to the people who are the victims of racism when it comes to racists.
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  Racism, right? Like, that's— you don't talk to the oppressors about whether or
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  not they're racist. You don't ask us, right? Yes. Like, you wouldn't go to a
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  1940s, uh, German and ask him if— if what
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  antisemitism looks like. That's simply not how it fucking works. Um,
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  and the reality is Sandy Brindello played in the
• 14:28
  WNBA. She has been coaching in the league for nearly 20 years.
• 14:31
  She has been in the United States for a very long time. And whatever
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  phrases are used in Australia, I wonder how she's keeping up with them, because when
• 14:38
  the fuck is she there? She works here, she played here. What are
• 14:42
  we talking about, right? Secondly, I— it is too much coincidence.
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  You're asking me to buy in a little too much to fantasy
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  world thinking to say that she
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  used this, um, uh, term that it would be perceived as racialized
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  in the United States toward a player that has specifically experienced
• 15:03
  extreme levels of racialized hate. Yes, like this. You didn't say it
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  to Caitlin Clark. You didn't say it to Kelsey Plum or Sabrina Ionescu. You didn't
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  even say it to a Black player who has had less attention than Angel Reese.
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  You, by the way, said it to the most famous— one of the most
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  famous Black American women athletes in the country. By the way,
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  really, it's not just that. It's if you were gonna say this phrase
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  about a player, it would be Caitlin Clark.
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  That, that's the weirdest fucking part about this. Like, truly,
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  if you were to pick one player, it would be Caitlin.
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  That's— so that's actually the fucking weirder thing about it. Now I'm,
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  now I'm getting angrier at her because, because you're not wrong. Like,
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  she's been here for 20 fucking years. I— again, cool that
• 15:49
  the Australians say that is a phrase you say. I've never fucking
• 15:53
  heard it here, man, and I played with a lot of Aussies. Yeah,
• 15:56
  and like, you know, so, so suddenly the first time we see— we hear
• 16:00
  this Australian head coach say this on, on mic, the first time we hear it,
• 16:04
  it's directed at Angel Reese specifically. But it wasn't— no, no,
• 16:07
  it wasn't racist. Now here's the thing, Cody, and I talked about this in my
• 16:10
  video I made about this 2 days ago, which is that, you know,
• 16:14
  white people— and I'm going to speak specifically about white women because I think sometimes
• 16:17
  we have a— this idea that we are a little more woke.
• 16:21
  We're women, we're marginalized, right? But white women have a very
• 16:24
  hard time, uh,
• 16:26
  investigating intent. I wasn't trying to be racist.
• 16:30
  I would never be racist, right? Because in our minds,
• 16:34
  the idea of being racist toward a Black woman means we are holding on
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  to very extreme conscious levels
• 16:41
  of anti-Blackness. We, we hearken back to the the idea of being like
• 16:45
  a slave owner's wife. That's racism.
• 16:49
  I'm not racist. But the reality is, when you say specific
• 16:54
  things about specific people, it is coming from a place of racism. We all
• 16:57
  have a lot of difficulty investigating what our
• 17:01
  intentions were, and a lot of times we say things that are racist and they
• 17:05
  were intentionally racist, and we simply are not good at examining our own intent.
• 17:08
  Number one, that also does not mean that somebody is an irredeemable,
• 17:13
  awful piece of shit person. So when you talk
• 17:16
  about Becky Hammond being like, no, I know she doesn't hold hate in her heart
• 17:20
  and blah blah blah— yeah, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret.
• 17:24
  A lot of racist people are not
• 17:28
  hateful, horrible pieces of shit who want to see
• 17:32
  Black people murdered in the street. They're racist.
• 17:36
  And though, like, we have really have this,
• 17:39
  like, It's very— it behooves white people to believe that racism is
• 17:43
  this very specific, actively violent, awful behavior
• 17:48
  that requires a conscious level of like, I hate Black
• 17:51
  people and want them to suffer. The reality is racism
• 17:55
  is anything that causes people to suffer,
• 17:59
  right? Like, it— like, if Black women are telling you
• 18:03
  that that word, that those words are harmful and scary and hurtful
• 18:07
  then that's racism, and, and you cause suffering, and that
• 18:11
  is all that matters. So it's all well and good that
• 18:15
  white woman Becky Hammond sees the best, that white woman Becky Hammond
• 18:19
  feels awful that Sandy Brundello is feeling this, but where were
• 18:23
  the words for Angel Reese and what she has suffered and the emotions
• 18:27
  that she has dealt with and the threats that she has fucking dealt with?
• 18:30
  Because we've seen through Caitlin Clark, and we've seen through white athletes
• 18:34
  throughout throughout the history of sports that the— these words, they do
• 18:39
  manifest in white culture. They do manifest in scary things happening
• 18:42
  to Black athletes. And I don't— I'm
• 18:46
  tired of, of the grace for white— we feel the
• 18:50
  need to give more grace for people who didn't mean to be racist than
• 18:54
  for the victims of racism.
• 18:57
  It's, it's the sort of the same thing when people talk about like, you know,
• 19:00
  Well, what if some— what if that guy is being falsely accused of rape?
• 19:05
  Oh, listen, I, I'll worry about someone being falsely accused when you
• 19:08
  guys give a fuck about people being actually raped. You don't fucking care.
• 19:12
  You don't care about the real victims of real shit.
• 19:16
  And then we care more about the mar— the small number
• 19:19
  of people who get wrongfully accused of something than we do of the mass victimhood
• 19:24
  of people. And that is what Black women have been experiencing, not only in
• 19:28
  the Trump era but specifically in this era of the WNBA.
• 19:31
  And so Do I— like, is there a
• 19:35
  part of me that can understand what may have happened with Sandy Brondello? Sure.
• 19:38
  But I don't know. What I do know is that Angel Reese felt
• 19:42
  targeted, that the evidence shows she was targeted, and that I'm
• 19:46
  tired of white women getting more grace than the Black women who are affected
• 19:50
  by it. That's what I'm tired of. It's very fair. I mean,
• 19:53
  listen, we're watching all the storylines around the WNBA, and listen,
• 19:57
  if you're not exhausted by them— I mean, by the way, I'm not blaming the
• 20:01
  WNBA for this by any stretch of the imagination. Nation. I'm blaming
• 20:05
  the people who, as you know, like to take very, very narratives
• 20:09
  that they don't even fucking give a shit about to make political theater and create
• 20:12
  political points. And that's the world we're currently living in with the WNBA.
• 20:16
  It's very frustrating. I'm very excited for the WNBA's, uh,
• 20:19
  ascension, and I'm very frustrated by the pieces of shit
• 20:22
  that try to bastardize it and basically make it their own. Um,
• 20:26
  and yeah, if we're sitting here pretending— if we're pretending that,
• 20:30
  that racism is somehow dissipated. If anything, the WNBA's ascension is
• 20:35
  showing you that if anything, it's either been stagnant, exactly the same,
• 20:38
  and flatlined for the past 35, 40, fucking 50 years,
• 20:42
  or that it's somehow gotten worse. And you know what? I'm actually going to believe
• 20:45
  the latter, which is really fucking problematic because I thought we were bad in
• 20:49
  the years that I played, and I thought we were bad in the— and by
• 20:53
  the way, the years that I played professional baseball Guys, that was the
• 20:56
  Obama years. That was— those were the good fucking years.
• 21:00
  And I thought we were still incredibly racist then. Trust me,
• 21:03
  the discourse and conversations around Clubhouses, some batshit
• 21:07
  things said, believe you me. I, I just— it's
• 21:11
  frustrating to say the least that we aren't getting better. We're getting
• 21:14
  significantly worse. And social media is just giving everybody a
• 21:18
  wonderful, wonderful fucking air horn to say all their racist shit.
• 21:22
  And here's the best part. Anonymously. That way everyone gets
• 21:25
  to display their wonderful racism as loud as they humanly
• 21:29
  can. And goddamn it, if, if, if Black women in the
• 21:32
  WNBA aren't at the very tippy top of this list— because watching,
• 21:36
  watching what Angel Reese has gone through, like, listen, does Angel
• 21:40
  Reese sometimes have her issues? Sure. But then again, what athlete out there doesn't
• 21:45
  have their issues? I firmly believe there's probably no
• 21:49
  one in sports in the last 3 years that's probably dealt with more hateful
• 21:53
  racist shit than Angel Reese. I, I firmly
• 21:57
  believe that. Now, I don't have any numbers to back that up, but I,
• 22:00
  I see the fucking discourse that's out in public, so I can
• 22:03
  only imagine what her DMs sadly have to look like all the
• 22:08
  fucking time. So it's really bad. It's really bad.
• 22:11
  Fucking— it's, it's atrocious. It's truly atrocious. And that's
• 22:15
  the player, that's the player you chose to say that about, Sandy? Like And so
• 22:19
  here's the thing, you know, I, I'm sorry, I— it doesn't— I don't
• 22:24
  care to sit here and parse what Sandy's intentions were. I,
• 22:28
  like, I know that I could be— by the way, I know I could be
• 22:31
  on the receiving end of this at some point. I could be the white woman
• 22:33
  who says something racist, and then I have
• 22:37
  to investigate what my intentions were. I have
• 22:41
  to investigate what my blind spots were that I hurt a group
• 22:45
  of women I care about. That could be me. And you know who's
• 22:48
  going to decide whether to give me grace? It's not going to be the white
• 22:52
  women I work with. It's not going to be— it's going to be the Black
• 22:55
  women. If they decide to give me grace, then I
• 22:59
  will fucking gladly take it and hopefully prove them completely
• 23:03
  valid in that. But we have to stop asking for grace
• 23:08
  from people who never get given it back
• 23:11
  who get harmed by this. Cody, white women's words have
• 23:14
  gotten Black men, women, and children killed for the 450,
• 23:19
  460 years that this country has existed since white people landed
• 23:24
  foot on this land. Words fucking matter.
• 23:28
  And I— do I think that Sandy Brondello should
• 23:33
  be put in fucking prison for it? No. But like You
• 23:37
  know, suspensions, fucking firings. These are things we're going to stare down
• 23:40
  the barrel of. We have not faced a lot of consequences for the
• 23:44
  ways that we have hurt people over the course of— and it's going to look
• 23:48
  extreme. That over— that correction is going to look extreme to people.
• 23:51
  It is. It's not. What was extreme is what
• 23:54
  people were getting away with for a long time. And I think that is a—
• 23:58
  I think that's becoming very clear with the way people are reacting to this,
• 24:01
  because people are reacting pretty— they're They don't like it. They want Sandy—
• 24:04
  I listen, I've seen a lot of, a lot of my mutuals, Black men
• 24:08
  who cover the league, saying, why are we, why are we trying to,
• 24:12
  um, marginalize Sandy Brandello, right? Not to
• 24:15
  mention white men, whatever else, but even Black men, because misogynoir runs deep.
• 24:19
  It runs deep in, in all men and white women.
• 24:23
  And I'm tired, Cody. I'm tired of watching. I, I really,
• 24:26
  really am. And if I'm this tired of watching the women I'm in community
• 24:30
  with deal with this. Imagine how the fuck they feel,
• 24:34
  right? So, you know, that— we'll
• 24:38
  see where this goes. Sandy issued a very swift and
• 24:43
  contrite apology. It didn't take long. She didn't
• 24:47
  parse. She didn't put out a shitty statement and then have to correct it.
• 24:51
  But then afterwards, she did the whole, well, it's in Australia and blah blah blah.
• 24:55
  We don't want excuses. Don't. You gotta stop. Just— you gotta stop.
• 24:58
  Just say you're sorry. You— and do— to her credit, with the
• 25:03
  exception of the thing saying Australian phrase, she did say that she
• 25:07
  very much never wants to be part of the problem, and this is being part
• 25:10
  of the problem. So to her credit, everything else she said was correct. So let's
• 25:15
  see who gives her grace and exactly what she does with it. Let's see what
• 25:18
  she does with this opportunity moving forward.
• 25:21
  What are you going to do with this opportunity to make it right with Angel
• 25:25
  Reese, to make it right with the Black women of the league and the fans
• 25:28
  that feel hurt by you? That's where we go from here. Couldn't agree more.
• 25:32
  Couldn't agree more. All right, now that we got the Band-Aid ripped
• 25:37
  off, let's go ahead and have some mild fun at LeBron
• 25:40
  James's expense. Rich Paul has officially said, hey,
• 25:44
  we are in no rush whatsoever. Don't you dare rush us. No, this is
• 25:48
  LeBron's world and you're all fucking living in it. Even though the commissioner of the
• 25:52
  league would really like him to make a decision. Because, and by the way,
• 25:55
  as funny as this is to say out loud, I actually agree with Adam Silver.
• 26:00
  I can't fucking make a schedule until fucking LeBron makes a decision.
• 26:03
  And that's just true. I'm sorry, it is. It's a very
• 26:07
  like, uh, it's— I'm glad he made the admission. It is one of those rare
• 26:11
  things where it's like, kind of surprised you said that out loud, but I'm kind
• 26:14
  of— I'm also glad you did because we all know it's true, right?
• 26:18
  We know it's true that you can't make a schedule until you know where LeBron
• 26:22
  is playing, because let's be real, you can't have LeBron games buried
• 26:26
  on the, on the, uh, the, the schedule. I mean, we know,
• 26:30
  we know the likely suspects of where he's going, but like, you know, what if
• 26:34
  LeBron goes rogue and decides to go play for the Detroit Pistons? Then what are
• 26:38
  we gonna do? One, one, don't fucking put that in the universe. We don't
• 26:42
  need that shit. That being said, I think it'd be kind of awesome. No,
• 26:45
  I would— I would just like— I think it's gonna be one of the 4
• 26:48
  that's being put out there. I think it's really, in my opinion,
• 26:51
  factually kind of probably down to actually 2, but I might be
• 26:55
  fucking completely way off. You saw the odds just skyrocket the other day on,
• 26:59
  on Miami just because of a couple of things that were said. It got up
• 27:03
  to as high as like trading like 54%. Now that's just— yeah,
• 27:06
  now it's over 50%. Over 50%. Now it's dissipated
• 27:10
  back down to the 30%, like neck to neck right now with Golden State.
• 27:14
  All of a sudden the Cleveland Cavaliers are right in that mix as well.
• 27:17
  Um, it's seemingly like Philly is becoming an afterthought of the thing,
• 27:20
  but you still wouldn't shock me if he ended up in Philly because that team
• 27:23
  just looks ridiculous right now. Can I throw a ridiculous dark horse
• 27:28
  out there? I, I know it's probably not gonna happen, but based on everything we're
• 27:32
  seeing and like really kind of digging through— because today
• 27:35
  I was talking with D-Fish about— I tried to break down the places he can
• 27:38
  go to through 5 specific lenses. What would be best for him to get a
• 27:42
  ring? What would be best for him and his family? What would be best for
• 27:45
  him and his his brand, what would be best for
• 27:48
  him and his just overall happiness. And weirdly, despite we were
• 27:52
  only using the 4 teams that we mentioned, the answer
• 27:57
  is still the fucking Lakers. It's not
• 28:01
  gonna happen, but honest to God, like, honest to God, his best
• 28:05
  fit is still the fucking Lakers right now. Uh, that being
• 28:09
  said, I firmly think and I know
• 28:12
  this is not where everybody else thinks, I really think
• 28:16
  he's gonna end up in Golden State. It just seems like the best possible
• 28:20
  thing for like the league. It would be putting all the superstars together and having
• 28:24
  this thing. You could throw them in primetime no matter what. I, I just,
• 28:27
  I don't know. That's where it seems like it's always been heading.
• 28:31
  But you tell me, Tanya. This has been, this has been all over
• 28:34
  the fucking place. And it's the theories that have out there have been batshit.
• 28:38
  Rich Paul has said everything. No one else can do anything else.
• 28:41
  Everyone is plead their cases. Tyrese Halliburton
• 28:44
  has multiple times said that he tried to make his case and got crying
• 28:48
  face laughter emojis sent back to him from LeBron. So Indiana's
• 28:53
  off the table. First of all, I, I'm not gonna lie, I love Tyrese shooting
• 28:58
  a shot. He's like, might as well. I mean, you like Cleveland,
• 29:02
  how about Indianapolis, right? I would actually— I would love,
• 29:06
  I would love Tyrese Halliburton to get to play with LeBron James. Um, first of
• 29:10
  all, I think it's really funny that, uh, Rich Paul put out the whole idea
• 29:14
  that he's like, the teams have done everything they can do. Because I guess teams
• 29:17
  are reaching out and saying, what more can we do to like entice you to
• 29:21
  come here, right? Yeah. He's like, that's not— that's not what he's— the decision he's—
• 29:25
  he's going to be deciding based on the kind of factors that you
• 29:28
  are probably talking about with DFish or on your show, where it's like,
• 29:32
  it's— it's external things. Um, the teams are sort
• 29:36
  of designed the way they're designed, and he's going to decide. There's no— nothing a
• 29:40
  team could do to entice him specifically to the— to, to their organization.
• 29:44
  So for me, uh, I actually don't—
• 29:48
  I disagree with you with your,
• 29:51
  your whole morning show take that the Lakers are the best fit
• 29:55
  for him. I actually do think he's outgrown them in terms of like, like legitimately
• 30:00
  as part of the roster. I think that he was the perfect person to step
• 30:04
  in because Luka was hurt, because Austin Reeves was hurt. But I actually don't
• 30:08
  think that he's the perfect person to lead them if the— if that core is
• 30:11
  healthy, or to be like— I, I don't—
• 30:15
  yes, obviously living in Los Angeles, but he's LeBron. He's a billionaire wherever he goes.
• 30:19
  He's gonna live the best life wherever he goes, and he's gonna have a house
• 30:22
  in Los Angeles and everywhere else he wants to have a house, right?
• 30:25
  Very true. I think the best
• 30:29
  fit for him in terms of like going to potentially
• 30:34
  win a ring outside of, you know,
• 30:37
  like, I don't actually think that that's Golden State. I think the
• 30:41
  probably the best place for him to go and try to win a ring
• 30:45
  is if he could go to Philly with a healthy Embiid,
• 30:49
  or, um, the Knicks if they're able to kind
• 30:53
  of put something together where they, uh, fill out the pieces
• 30:56
  that they lost. I'd be, I'd be fucking shocked if you went
• 31:01
  to the Knicks. I'd be— I would be shocked in every possible
• 31:05
  way. And here, here's the main way that,
• 31:08
  like, the number one reason, believe it or not, it's Jimmy Dolan. There's no way
• 31:12
  I could see LeBron James cohabitating with, with James
• 31:15
  Dolan in any way. Oh, he absolutely could. LeBron James is friends with
• 31:19
  way worse insufferable billionaires. I mean, so, or just as—
• 31:22
  I mean, it's LeBron. LeBron's a billionaire. LeBron, I mean, like, what do we Like,
• 31:26
  do I think LeBron voted for Trump? No, I don't. He still has you bum
• 31:30
  on his record, and I love that for him. I don't think that he's
• 31:34
  MAGA, but LeBron's a billionaire, and LeBron gets along with old white billionaires just fine.
• 31:38
  But James Dolan, like, listen, if— I'm just saying a world. Tell me right
• 31:42
  now, if LeBron James is going through the exact same playoff scenario that the Knicks
• 31:46
  just went through and got all the way through, and the amount of insertion
• 31:49
  that James Dolan inserted himself into all of this and
• 31:52
  turned so much of this into absolute atrocious
• 31:56
  shit. You're telling me LeBron would have been on board with any of that?
• 32:01
  Like, I mean, it's funny, any of it LeBron's dealt with.
• 32:04
  Um, like, I know he ended up butting heads with Pat Riley. I know
• 32:08
  he ended up butting heads with Dan Gilbert. Like, he's had all of his
• 32:12
  moments with these people. Like, to— so it's in my mind, I'm like, bro,
• 32:14
  you've, you've dealt with all these kinds of people. You can deal with them for
• 32:17
  one more season because this is a one-season experiment as far as I'm concerned,
• 32:19
  right? I mean, we Right. Um, I think those 2
• 32:23
  teams are probably the best place he could go to try to win a ring.
• 32:26
  I, I don't know about Golden State, although maybe, maybe if you fill out that
• 32:29
  roster, maybe that is a like revive it one more time type place.
• 32:33
  Obviously the betting favorites are the Cavs and the Heat.
• 32:36
  I understand why. Between those 2 teams, the Heat make more
• 32:41
  sense in terms of vibe for LeBron. No, why would he want to go—
• 32:44
  like I've told you this, Donovan Mitchell, James Harden, These are
• 32:48
  not players that you go to the fucking playoffs and win rings with. They're just
• 32:50
  not. Like, you go play with Giannis,
• 32:54
  right? Oh, oh my God, my ring light just died. You're in the dark.
• 32:59
  This is not good. Actually, it's nice. It's like we're telling campfire stories.
• 33:03
  This is ridiculous. Hold on. I think you look great.
• 33:07
  Oh my God, I'm gonna have the weirdest lighting now because my ring light died.
• 33:10
  It's really not that bad. It's really not. I mean,
• 33:13
  is it perfect? No, but it's not nearly as bad as you think.
• 33:17
  Oh, now it's— now it's really yellow. But oh,
• 33:19
  goddamn it. Just— God, now it just— stop it. Now it just looks like
• 33:23
  you're tan. Well done. So I
• 33:27
  like— I don't know why you'd want to go and, and play with, uh,
• 33:30
  you know, 2 players who are notoriously bad in the playoffs to
• 33:33
  try to win a ring. Like, I understand it's Cleveland, so you
• 33:37
  either want to go and finish it out in Cleveland and do the, the full
• 33:40
  circle thing, which I'm fine with, I'm fine. I would totally understand that.
• 33:44
  But you're not winning a ring there. You maybe go to— I think
• 33:47
  Miami, you go with Bam and Giannis, maybe something happens there. You're with one of
• 33:51
  the best coaches in the NBA who you've played for before, you know.
• 33:55
  So that's— those are the options. You go and you play with 2 of the
• 33:58
  better teams in the East, the Knicks and the Heat, or you go play with
• 34:01
  2 of the teams that you've played with before and maybe, you know, um,
• 34:05
  see what happens. Fair enough, fair enough. Let's go over to headline
• 34:09
  number 3, and I think this is a really good headline. Because I don't need
• 34:12
  to say anything. I just know Tanya's gonna be pissed off. So Tanya,
• 34:16
  um, here, I'm just gonna go ahead and take myself off screen because I know
• 34:19
  I'm not gonna say shit for the next few minutes. Oh God, you left me
• 34:22
  alone in my, in my light. Uh, God, this light. Tanya Ray Fox,
• 34:27
  you want to talk about Mr. John Harbaugh and all his wonderful
• 34:30
  comments about his current running back and QB situation?
• 34:34
  Go. Not really. But no, I do.
• 34:38
  Um, so of course I do. That's why I
• 34:42
  put it in the goddamn rundown, Cody. Uh,
• 34:45
  John Harbaugh said that, that Jaxon Dart's
• 34:49
  talents remind him of Lamar Jackson's
• 34:52
  game. He said Jaxon's capable of doing a lot of things
• 34:56
  during an interview with Dominique Foxworth. He can live in a lot of different
• 35:00
  worlds football-wise. He can live in a power running game,
• 35:03
  obviously, and a power running game protects the quarterback because you can hand the ball
• 35:07
  off and make people defend that keep them honest. But we can also
• 35:11
  get into the gun or get in the pistol, and we can run RPOs,
• 35:14
  and we can run quarterback-driven runs with Jackson Dart. A lot of the stuff we
• 35:18
  had in Baltimore with Lamar. Oh, so now
• 35:21
  if you want to defend the pass, the quick game pass— okay, so his— I'm
• 35:26
  not even gonna read the rest of this. His whole entire thing, Cody, is he
• 35:28
  is gonna run the offense he ran Look
• 35:36
  at Lamar Jackson. Isn't this great?
• 35:40
  I got— I have 2 guys that can equal
• 35:44
  one Lamar. This is great.
• 35:47
  He is like, this is gonna be amazing.
• 35:50
  Lamar Jackson, Jackson Dart.
• 35:53
  It's all there. He's seeing the vision.
• 35:57
  He's thinking it. This shit is so goddamn
• 36:00
  dumb. And you know what? This is a perfect example of why Lamar Jackson has
• 36:04
  made a goddamn Super Bowl with this idiot
• 36:08
  as his head coach. Because if you genuinely believe
• 36:11
  you can— nobody in the NFL can
• 36:15
  do what Lamar Jackson does. No, let alone Tanya.
• 36:20
  Tanya, he recreated him in the aggregate.
• 36:22
  He's good. He's got 3 players. He's got 3
• 36:26
  guys. 3 guys. It's almost one Lamar.
• 36:30
  It's like the same fucking team. By the way, someone was
• 36:33
  like— someone showed a video of Cam Scadaboo,
• 36:37
  uh, doing, um, the backflip and landing on the backflip and was like,
• 36:41
  John Harbaugh's up there thinking he's gonna run the Ravens offense with him,
• 36:45
  but with like the adult version of all the, the shitty
• 36:49
  little kids who won't listen to you, right? They're like, they're like
• 36:52
  the little kids by the pool who will not listen to you, and you're like,
• 36:56
  don't jump in the pool. Like, these are a bunch of little fuck-ass
• 37:00
  white dudes. That he thinks he's gonna run Lamar
• 37:04
  Jackson's offense with. I could not— I— you would think I would
• 37:07
  be mad about this, Cody. I am overjoyed.
• 37:12
  I am fucking thrilled. I am thrilled
• 37:16
  that this MAGA asshat is gonna take his MAGA asshat quarterback and
• 37:20
  his MAGA asshat running back and try to run the fucking
• 37:24
  offense he ran with fucking Heisman-winning
• 37:28
  quarterback he inherited from the draft that Ozzie Newsome so handsomely
• 37:33
  and gratefully drafted for him right before he fucking retired from that job.
• 37:37
  And then he is going to
• 37:40
  try to— that man won multiple MVPs,
• 37:45
  should have had 3. He has 2, he should have had 3. He thinks he
• 37:48
  can recreate that with a— with one of the stupidest human
• 37:52
  beings I've ever seen. And the second
• 37:56
  stupidest. I, I was about to say, and Jackson Dart,
• 38:00
  like, which one? Where were we going with that one? I cannot wait.
• 38:04
  This is gonna be my favorite thing. It's gonna be my favorite thing to
• 38:08
  watch. This implosion of that piece of shit and his piece of shit fucking offense
• 38:12
  is going to bring me more joy than I can tell you. I can't
• 38:16
  wait to watch this fail. Listen, we're gonna, we're gonna fucking find out that whether
• 38:20
  or not John Harbaugh can coach. I, I'm very, very excited to find this out
• 38:24
  because, I mean, he can coach well enough. I mean,
• 38:27
  Matt Nagy runs a totally different offense. I know, I'm saying
• 38:31
  we'll find out because he had for the last several years a fucking cheat
• 38:35
  code in one guy that he's currently
• 38:38
  espousing his 3 guys to be almost the one guy. So all
• 38:43
  right, let's see what you got. If it's successful, I'll be like, great job,
• 38:46
  John Harbaugh, you did it with all your fucking, your fucking idiot white boys.
• 38:50
  But if you don't do it I get to fucking
• 38:54
  laugh at you, and I'm gonna. The only thing I'm really
• 38:58
  disappointed about, because I just typed this in, I just wanted to see if it
• 39:00
  was happening— ah, no, the New York Giants are
• 39:04
  not scheduled to play the Baltimore Ravens this year,
• 39:07
  and that is a fucking miss. It's probably, it's probably
• 39:11
  for the best for Lamar, because like, honestly, Lamar doesn't need— like,
• 39:15
  he deserves better than to have to deal with that idiot. I have, by the
• 39:17
  way, I just want to say I, I doubt— like, I doubt it's gonna happen.
• 39:21
  Maybe it will, who knows. I don't really know what the Ravens are going to
• 39:23
  be this year, but how great would it be if Lamar went to a fucking
• 39:26
  Super Bowl this year with a new coach? Who are you talking to? I mean,
• 39:30
  I mean, I would— I'm rooting so hard for it. Like, I— again, I don't
• 39:33
  think it's gonna happen. I want Lamar. I want Lamar in a Super Bowl more
• 39:37
  than I want the Patriots back in a Super Bowl. And you know I'm not
• 39:40
  fucking lying. You know I'm not lying. You are definitely not lying. But yeah,
• 39:43
  you're, you're also, you're also a fucking weirdo. So what are you gonna do?
• 39:47
  Let's, uh, let's head over and take a bite
• 39:51
  out of headline 4. Okay, no, that's not what we're
• 39:55
  doing. This is— I'm gonna have to cut that out. Why? Because it's
• 39:59
  a serious topic and someone's getting sued? It's not. I mean,
• 40:03
  it's domestic violence, but it is like— I'm so confused by
• 40:07
  this entire story. Okay, well, let me— I've been confused from
• 40:11
  day one, and I'm not gonna lie to you, I have yet to see the
• 40:15
  story portrayed as anything but a fucking weird-ass drunken joke
• 40:19
  by everybody, including the majority of the people involved.
• 40:23
  Well, uh, what makes you think this— do you saw the picture?
• 40:26
  Yeah, yeah, I saw the picture. It doesn't look great, that's for goddamn sure.
• 40:30
  Uh, so this has been going on, uh, it's, it's been months
• 40:34
  now that they've been litigating, uh, Puka Nacua allegedly assaulting this woman.
• 40:38
  Um, she has filed a— what?
• 40:41
  Yeah, biting the living shit out of her. So, uh, a color
• 40:46
  photo of the bite mark that Rams wide receiver Puka Nacua allegedly left on a
• 40:50
  woman's, um, like back and shoulder kind of area. Yeah,
• 40:53
  like shoulder blade area. Yeah, so she said that it was,
• 40:57
  um— or sorry, so he
• 41:00
  said it was horseplay. That's what he— he was like, oh, we were just
• 41:04
  horsing around in the back of the car or whatever. And they're saying everybody was
• 41:07
  drunk. Yes, the Associated Press and Los Angeles Times
• 41:10
  both reported on March 25th that Nakua's attorney, uh, and Nakua's
• 41:14
  attorney said it was described as him, um, biting the woman as horseplay. The bite
• 41:19
  caused a micropuncture and the woman had to get a tetanus shot,
• 41:22
  according to, uh, her attorney. At the request of USA
• 41:26
  Today Sports, Carr provided— that's the attorney— the color
• 41:30
  photo of the bite mark. He said the black and white a copy filed as
• 41:32
  evidence may be one of the reasons that it's not been, uh,
• 41:35
  taken as seriously, that it's been underplayed, because you couldn't quite see the,
• 41:39
  like, redness and the blood coming out of the, like, where the
• 41:43
  deepest bite marks are. Yeah, it looks like, like, for parts
• 41:47
  of it, like, one, gotta give her credit, she is clearly— whatever,
• 41:51
  like, supplements she takes, the fact that,
• 41:54
  like, this is not all broken skin is actually quite impressive,
• 41:58
  but you can see the parts where it is and it's just like,
• 42:01
  the fuck is this? Yeah, like for a human being to break skin with
• 42:05
  their teeth like that. And like, I've never actually seen— so I
• 42:09
  didn't want to put the actual photo into the, um, into the podcast because
• 42:13
  it actually is kind of like horrifying. It's actually kind of jarring when you
• 42:17
  actually look. Yeah, so like if you, if you look, you can Google it,
• 42:21
  um, but you can see the full like front and and
• 42:25
  back. It's in a circle, like full bite marks. And where
• 42:28
  the 2 deepest marks of the, of the bite marks
• 42:32
  are, top left, is, is, yeah, is like fully like starting to draw blood.
• 42:36
  And here's the thing that's a little bit shady, is that Nakua originally
• 42:40
  stated the woman contributed to the incident because
• 42:45
  she was very intoxicated at the time of the incident.
• 42:48
  Uh, he amended that statement that he provided under
• 42:52
  oath. And in recently amended answers, according to the new
• 42:55
  filing, Nakua changed his answer about whether or not the woman
• 42:59
  contributed to it. No. However,
• 43:02
  discovery and investigation are continuing. So he
• 43:06
  originally tried to do the like, she was drunk and asking for it type of
• 43:10
  thing, and clearly his lawyers were like, probably don't
• 43:14
  say that. And so he amended the answer. Okay,
• 43:17
  right. So that's kind of— yeah, listen, this is
• 43:21
  going to turn out to be a pretty sizable payout, clearly.
• 43:24
  It's just, it's just— ah,
• 43:28
  yeah, this guy had such a bad offseason. Yeah,
• 43:32
  he's not, uh, like a super well person. Like, that's very clear.
• 43:36
  Nakua is not a good person. And let's be clear,
• 43:39
  um, this isn't the first time he's done something that's landed him in the headlines,
• 43:42
  but it is the most violent thing. And if somebody
• 43:46
  did this physically to me, like, if I ever came in
• 43:50
  and showed you that someone had done that to me, I'd go kill them,
• 43:52
  right? Like, this is the kind of thing that's like horrifying.
• 43:57
  And, uh, you know, I think
• 44:01
  that like part of this issue is that like we know for sure— this
• 44:04
  is kind of what I want to talk about— is like, we know for sure
• 44:06
  Puka Nacua is not— he's not getting like ousted from the league. He's one of
• 44:10
  the most famous wide receivers He's one of the best wide receivers in the league.
• 44:13
  This is not going to cost him much more than,
• 44:16
  um, potentially having to go through like litigation, a payout like
• 44:20
  you said, which you're 100% right, that's exactly what's going to happen.
• 44:24
  And then it's going to be on to the next thing. And somebody who is
• 44:27
  capable, physically capable of doing this to someone under
• 44:31
  the influence of drugs or not— listen, Cody, I've partied, okay? I'm gonna say how
• 44:35
  I've partied or what I've partied with. But I have never been fucked
• 44:39
  up enough to either do that to someone or let somebody
• 44:43
  do it to you or have it done to me where I would be okay
• 44:47
  with it. Now, in the filing, she talks about like being
• 44:50
  upset while it was happening. It's not like she was like, yeah, party on.
• 44:54
  Like, it was not good. Um,
• 44:57
  so like, this is one of those things where I'm like, the warning signs
• 45:01
  are there that this person is unwell and does not have a
• 45:05
  respect for other human beings, like bodily autonomy.
• 45:10
  Um, am I glad that she wasn't like
• 45:14
  hurt worse? Very much. But that's
• 45:18
  the low bar. But that's a very low bar. It's not just
• 45:22
  that, it's also the fact— listen,
• 45:25
  I, I'm, I'm really skeptical on whatever the hell his quote-unquote
• 45:29
  rehab stint was. I have been from day one. It screamed
• 45:33
  this is a I don't know who his agency is, so I apologize for just
• 45:37
  blatantly saying a CAA type of wonderful boardroom type
• 45:41
  of meeting situation where everybody got together and like, all right, he's going to go
• 45:44
  to rehab, but he's going to put himself in and he's going to take all
• 45:46
  this accountability, yada, yada, yada. And then we will all make $150
• 45:50
  million next year. Like, that's honest to God what this fucking has
• 45:55
  felt like from the get-go. I don't like where it's going.
• 45:58
  And I've said it many, many, many, many, many, many, many times.
• 46:02
  And I will say it over and over again until somebody actually fucking really listens
• 46:05
  to what this is pointing— this is just on its way to
• 46:09
  an Antonio Brown situation. It is well on
• 46:13
  its way. These are just like identical first steps.
• 46:16
  So I want to believe that the rehab stint was
• 46:20
  real. I have no reason to believe that the rehab
• 46:24
  stint was real. I'm just wanting to be hopeful,
• 46:27
  knowing full well anytime I'm hopeful in a situation like this I'm
• 46:32
  usually fucking right about what the actual situation is. So I'm,
• 46:37
  I'm kind of going about the situation with some serious bated breath going forward because
• 46:40
  it screams like every aspect of the playbook is going to happen.
• 46:45
  This woman will get paid out, this story will go away,
• 46:48
  Puka Nacua will lead the NFL in yak yards,
• 46:52
  and everyone will get— and he'll get his, uh, he'll reset the wide receiver
• 46:56
  market. He will be a hero for a solid 2 years, and then he'll fuck
• 47:00
  up in a horrible way in 3. Here we go.
• 47:04
  Yeah, no, I mean, that's, that's why I kind of— I, I wanted to put
• 47:07
  in the, in the show mostly because a,
• 47:10
  like, a lot of the, the times this happens,
• 47:14
  we ignore it. We ignore that it's happening. We ignore that
• 47:18
  it is a, like, because we just assume nothing's going,
• 47:22
  you know, nothing's going to come of it. And I want it on record,
• 47:25
  whether it's on our podcast, that like you know,
• 47:28
  isn't exactly a fucking national television show. I want it on record that
• 47:32
  there is a Googleable account of this motherfucker being a piece of shit,
• 47:36
  hurting a person in a way that's really alarming,
• 47:40
  so that if he ever does something genuinely horrifying
• 47:44
  that results in, in an injury that's worse, that people
• 47:48
  can find results of, of people in the media
• 47:52
  speaking about this. Because you know what I hate more than anything, Cody,
• 47:55
  is when you go to Google a situation with somebody who
• 47:59
  is an absolute fucking red flag, it turns out nobody's been fucking talking
• 48:03
  about it. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, has he been an
• 48:06
  actually— is he a bad guy? This Antonio Brown stuff,
• 48:10
  there were 4 million red flags with Antonio Brown long before
• 48:14
  it got really, really bad. But guess what? We didn't talk about it. So when
• 48:18
  you Googled it, it was always like For years people were like, oh,
• 48:21
  it has to be— that can't be true, that can't be true. No,
• 48:24
  when you Google Puka Nacua, I want to make sure that you see
• 48:28
  that, that, you know, like our fucking podcast episode pops up
• 48:32
  with us talking about how he's a piece of shit and how he bit a
• 48:34
  woman until she bled. You know what's funny
• 48:39
  is it's— there's also something that we're
• 48:43
  dealing with now too, and I'm not sure if you've seen this. And I'm going
• 48:46
  to use the World Cup as an example. It's not the exact example, but I
• 48:49
  think you'll definitely see this because, you know, when we were talking about issues with
• 48:52
  the World Cup this year and, and like, oh, how dare you do this?
• 48:56
  And he's like, oh, you guys are talking— it was really around the Bellingham thing.
• 48:59
  People were like, oh, how dare the government get involved? It's like, oh, what are
• 49:02
  you talking about, our government getting involved? None of— where were all of you saying
• 49:05
  anything when it was— when the, when the tournament was over in Qatar?
• 49:10
  We all fucking said shit. When it was in Qatar. What the fuck?
• 49:13
  Like, I, I'm starting to get tired of the thing that even though we say
• 49:17
  it, people are in a couple years to be like, well, why didn't any of
• 49:19
  you say it then? We fucking did. You, you just didn't listen. And I'm
• 49:23
  worried that we're just gonna deal with this again because in 3 years you're gonna
• 49:27
  be like, why didn't you say anything 3 years ago? And we're like, again,
• 49:30
  we did, and you guys just don't fucking listen. It's just— I'm— yeah,
• 49:34
  we're building— we are building an internet archive
• 49:38
  of accountability at this point. And that might sound stupid
• 49:42
  to people, but it actually, it is genuinely meaningful.
• 49:46
  I want an internet archive of these types of things that occur.
• 49:50
  And, you know, hopefully we're not the only people that pop up in a Google
• 49:54
  search about it. But I can tell you right now, if I say it and
• 49:57
  it's attached to my name on the internet, if you say it and it's attached
• 49:59
  to your name on the internet, it will show up in a Google search.
• 50:01
  We have just enough SEO power between
• 50:05
  the two of us. That's the case. So hopefully that
• 50:10
  doesn't ever have to happen. Hopefully Puka doesn't do something worse.
• 50:15
  But if he does, I don't want this to be swept
• 50:18
  under the fucking rug so that the next time they're like, oh, false allegations,
• 50:22
  how could you believe that until the fucking evidence is out there?
• 50:26
  No, actually, there's a body of evidence. There was a body of evidence
• 50:29
  with Antonio Brown. There's a body of evidence with Ben Roethlisberger. There's a body
• 50:33
  of evidence with these fuckers. So that's all,
• 50:37
  that's all I, you know, that's what I want to come out of this.
• 50:40
  I hope she's okay. She hopes she gets her money for the, for the pain
• 50:44
  and stress and anxiety of all of that experience. And if that is good,
• 50:48
  great. That's what I want. And I also want him to be held accountable
• 50:52
  so that if— so that there is pressure on him to not do
• 50:55
  this kind of thing and make it worse. Completely agree.
• 50:59
  Let's I will remain hopeful that
• 51:03
  the rehab stint was real. There you go. That's right. And that's
• 51:07
  the best that you can do, Cody, and I'm proud of you for remaining hopeful.
• 51:10
  Probably foolishly so, but I will remain hopeful. Let's get to Media
• 51:14
  Corner because today— listen, I make— I want to make this abundantly clear if I
• 51:18
  haven't already in the show— I fucking hate ESPN in all
• 51:21
  of its programming for the most part. That being said,
• 51:25
  Make no mistake, there is never a fun time
• 51:29
  watching people in this industry lose their jobs, uh, and it's
• 51:33
  never fun, uh, seeing the industry do to
• 51:36
  itself what it has been doing to itself and what it's been doing today
• 51:41
  and how it's been happening. It just sucks. So I,
• 51:45
  right out the gate, I want to start by saying I just feel terrible for
• 51:48
  anyone that lost their jobs today because there were a lot of very very talented
• 51:53
  people in this industry that lost their jobs today that I firmly believe shouldn't have
• 51:56
  lost their jobs today. And it really, it really, really sucks.
• 52:00
  Like, for instance, I, I know this is gonna be a footnote in what we're
• 52:03
  gonna get into, but it sucks that last night I think was the last time
• 52:07
  I hear Carl Ravitch on ESPN calling a baseball game. And you know what,
• 52:10
  I really like Carl Ravitch and his work, and I'm sure he's gonna be fine
• 52:13
  going somewhere else. But, you know, just kind of no warning the
• 52:17
  night after him calling a Dodger game on ESPN,
• 52:21
  uh, and it's just kind of unceremoniously after 35 years not
• 52:25
  gonna hear him there anymore. I, you know, it's just this industry is
• 52:29
  very fucking cruel. So Tanya, take it away. Yeah,
• 52:32
  I mean, that's, that's a huge story.
• 52:36
  I think everybody knows that ESPN, um, after the acquisition with
• 52:40
  the NFL Network and through the incorporation of those
• 52:44
  operations has done another layoff. By the way,
• 52:47
  they laid off people this spring, so this is more layoffs,
• 52:51
  um, just in a different sector of the company. Um,
• 52:54
  Carl Ravitch found out that he was laid off—
• 52:58
  I hate it— uh, when he— a reporter called him asking
• 53:02
  for a comment. That's how he found out he was laid off. Um,
• 53:06
  Ryan Clark, uh, found out he was laid off in
• 53:09
  the middle of hosting NFL That's fucking— that's so ridiculous.
• 53:13
  I don't know what to do with myself. And then, you know, there was a
• 53:16
  mutual agreement that they would, uh, he would just leave the show in the
• 53:20
  middle of the fucking show. Um, you know, I, I, I talked
• 53:24
  about this online a little bit yesterday. These layoffs have become
• 53:28
  a nightmare because the, you know,
• 53:32
  the company leaks the information. It gets out there. It gets
• 53:36
  to report. They don't do their due diligence in getting a hold of people
• 53:39
  beforehand. I was laid off exactly a year ago by Fox Sports,
• 53:44
  and I got a call from my friend that we had canceled
• 53:47
  3 of our 5 daily shows. I— 3 of the shows I
• 53:51
  work on. And he's like, what the fuck? And I'm like,
• 53:55
  oh, I'm getting laid off. I'm like, I, I knew
• 53:59
  what was happening as soon as I found out that those— that we had canceled
• 54:01
  3 of our 5 shows late. I was like, oh fuck.
• 54:05
  And The reality is like that,
• 54:09
  that should not have been how I found out that I was getting laid off.
• 54:12
  That I, I mean, I knew, and then I checked my email, Cody,
• 54:15
  and what do I have? Emergency Zoom meeting that day.
• 54:20
  Not only was I laid off that day after our— after it was leaked that
• 54:24
  we were canceling all these shows and it was inevitable, I was laid off with
• 54:27
  25 other people in a group Zoom.
• 54:32
  Not even, not even a, not even a one-on-one HR.
• 54:35
  Now, did I get my one-on-one HR meeting? Of course I did, but I had
• 54:39
  to schedule that out, you know, a week and a half out afterward, after being
• 54:42
  laid off with me and me and all my close, like,
• 54:45
  buddies watching each other get laid off. No big deal. Yeah,
• 54:49
  this industry is a fucking nightmare. Ryan Clark
• 54:53
  should not have endured that. Worked there for— no, he should not have. It's like
• 54:56
  ravaging, embarrassing how happened. It's, it's a disaster. Disaster.
• 55:00
  Um, you know, to Ryan Clark's credit, he handled it incredibly classily.
• 55:04
  Yes, he did. He left in the middle of the show. That was a mutual
• 55:06
  decision. Um, but he put out, you know, his statement and said,
• 55:10
  sending prayers and love to those, all those laid off by
• 55:15
  ESPN today. So many of you have poured your life into that company,
• 55:18
  and I know how you're feeling right now. My hope is that this
• 55:22
  door closes, another opens for you. God bless. Um, a lot
• 55:26
  of his colleagues have said, I learned so much about, you know, the sport from,
• 55:30
  uh, Ryan. He was very clearly a beloved colleague.
• 55:34
  Um, you know, I was just talking about him in the last show.
• 55:38
  I think that, um, specifically the work he's done on his podcast,
• 55:42
  which is The Pivot, which is not even ESPN but also on
• 55:46
  ESPN, has been excellent work. I think that he has a very specific lane
• 55:49
  that he's in that is is really valuable. And here's the
• 55:53
  thing, is there has been rumors for a long time—
• 55:57
  and this is kind of gets to the heart of the problem with this whole
• 55:59
  layoff of the talent— there's been rumors for a long time, Cody,
• 56:02
  that, uh, there was a specific spat between he and Peter Schrager
• 56:07
  on air. I remember the last NFL season.
• 56:11
  Oh, I remember it. That, that rubbed executives the
• 56:15
  wrong way, and essentially they've been targeting him ever sense like that, that he
• 56:19
  just could— that Ryan Clark just simply could not recover from. By the
• 56:23
  way, Peter Schrager, brand new to ESPN, came over from the NFL Network, brand new
• 56:27
  to this conversation, comes in on his goddamn high horse arguing
• 56:31
  with Dan Orlovsky, arguing with Ryan Clark. And I, I don't
• 56:35
  know if you watched the actual clip, but where, you know, the whole thing was
• 56:38
  that Ryan Clark said, hey, that's a non-player perspective. That's what he said
• 56:42
  to Peter Schrager. Now, and then everybody got out their pitchforks. How dare you
• 56:45
  minimize Peter? Brought out their pitchforks and And the crazy part
• 56:50
  was Ryan Clark said, hey, let me,
• 56:53
  let me, let me explain what I'm saying because I know that you're gonna— what
• 56:57
  you're gonna say. I'm talking about this from my perspective.
• 57:01
  I have a player perspective. You have a non-player's
• 57:04
  perspective. So I'm not actually coming at you. And he said, I'm not trying to
• 57:07
  be disrespectful. He was incredibly respectful in this conversation,
• 57:11
  knowing that how people were going to take it. And even in that
• 57:15
  spot It was still massive backlash from executives
• 57:19
  at ESPN on behalf— so stupid— on behalf of everybody's favorite
• 57:22
  good old boy, Peter Schrager, right?
• 57:26
  On behalf of everybody's favorite, favorite, uh, white guy. Now guess
• 57:31
  who's— guess who's slated to step in on Get Up and do a bunch of
• 57:35
  NFL coverage now? Oh, he's the new fucking big dog
• 57:39
  in town after laying off Charles Davis, after laying off
• 57:43
  Ryan Clark, after laying off Tom Pelissero. Guess who it is?
• 57:46
  Fucking Kyle Brandt. Mm-hmm.
• 57:50
  So cool. By the way, I, I, I, can I,
• 57:54
  I do, what's the difference between Peter
• 57:58
  Schrager and Kyle Brandt? Are they not the same person? No,
• 58:01
  Kyle Brandt is, I don't know, was on The Real World, I guess. That's cool.
• 58:05
  He was? Oh, you don't know about that? No, I just figured
• 58:09
  they were just 2 dudes who just yell at the TV about football and I
• 58:12
  never really knew where they came from. So Kyle Brandt
• 58:15
  was on The Real World, failed actor. Like, he wanted to be
• 58:19
  on camera. Like, that was his big thing. He wanted to go on The Real
• 58:22
  World, become famous. And, um, I guess the acting thing
• 58:26
  didn't come work out, and then he ended up as the, the sidekick
• 58:30
  to Jim Rome. You remember that, or did you not know about that? I didn't.
• 58:33
  I, I— listen, I, I know Jim Rome has like his fans.
• 58:37
  I, for some reason, uh, I have not looked at Jim Rome
• 58:41
  in 25 years. No, most people Most people have. I mean, it's not like he's
• 58:45
  like a— I mean, at one point Jim Rome, Jim Rome was doing whatever.
• 58:49
  Yeah, yeah. And he still has— he's had work forever. So, um, he was—
• 58:53
  that was like kind of like Kyle Brandt's come up when Jim Rome still had
• 58:56
  like a pretty like big deal show. And then what,
• 59:00
  what is it, like 10, 12 years ago, he went over to the NFL Network
• 59:04
  and started doing that stuff. And but yeah, no, Kyle Brandt was on The Real
• 59:08
  World Chicago, maybe. Boy, well,
• 59:11
  if you were— if you were trying to find a way for me to give
• 59:14
  less a fuck about ESPN,
• 59:16
  congratulations, success. Yeah,
• 59:20
  listen, um, I, I, I am okay,
• 59:24
  and you know this because I've talked about this with Craig Carton a little bit,
• 59:27
  I am actually okay with a big ego sort
• 59:31
  of like, uh, white dude, right? Like a, like a white dude who just says
• 59:34
  the white dude things, right? But you can only have one.
• 59:38
  There can only be one. Oh, so they already have that with McAfee, so you
• 59:42
  can't get the other one? Like, I don't need— like, you want McAfee,
• 59:45
  Schrager, and Kyle Brandt, and you're gonna get rid
• 59:49
  of all the fucking former players? You're gonna— and then you're gonna leave— you're
• 59:53
  gonna leave me with what, Kyle Brandt yelling at Dan Orlovsky?
• 59:57
  You're gonna make me root for Dan Orlovsky? Is that what's gonna happen?
• 1:00:01
  This is like on the internet when, when, uh, women will comment on someone's
• 1:00:05
  photo, like, reel or whatever, and they'll be like, how dare you make me
• 1:00:08
  root for a, for a man, right? In 2026. I, I,
• 1:00:12
  I, I'm amazed you're even having this dilemma. My, my dilemma
• 1:00:16
  is solved. I don't fucking watch. It is that
• 1:00:20
  simple. There is quality programming in the world right now.
• 1:00:23
  That's the thing is you do though, because what happens is if you want
• 1:00:28
  to watch the NFL on Sundays the way that I do Now,
• 1:00:32
  if you don't want to, you're going to know less about football right now.
• 1:00:35
  Maybe that's why I know more about football than you, and that's okay. But if
• 1:00:38
  I want to watch football all day on Sunday, guess what I'm going to do?
• 1:00:41
  These people are going to come across my fucking screen because, because I'm
• 1:00:45
  not going to spend all day parsing through Twitter
• 1:00:50
  and Threads and whatever else trying to find out what people are like, you know,
• 1:00:53
  what fucking— like, they— there actually is a reason
• 1:00:57
  to put these networks on to know what's going on while I'm like I,
• 1:01:00
  you know, sometimes I need to hear what's going on while I'm making my goddamn
• 1:01:04
  breakfast and coffee in the morning at 10 AM to watch football.
• 1:01:08
  I can't avoid them. I don't find it a badge of honor to avoid
• 1:01:12
  mainstream media. It's not possible. And realistically,
• 1:01:17
  when I'm watching sports, before, during, and after are
• 1:01:21
  these people. They're coming on my screens whether I like it or not.
• 1:01:25
  So I'm not avoiding them. Now, am I tuning in
• 1:01:29
  to be like, I can't wait to see what Dan Orlovsky says? No, of course
• 1:01:33
  not. But he's fucking popping up. We got different reads on
• 1:01:36
  this because I catch up on the sporting aspects of it by watching either the
• 1:01:40
  post-game interviews, pre-game interviews, and of course the actual games
• 1:01:43
  themselves. And doing the interviews though, right? Who's doing the interviews?
• 1:01:46
  What networks are you watching them on? It depends on what— usually I like post-games.
• 1:01:50
  I'm normally not a huge fan of straight-up interviews if it's a one-on-one interview,
• 1:01:53
  especially if it's a one-on-one interview with ESPN. I'll go through it. What if it's
• 1:01:57
  a one-on-one interview with that phrase? But I usually won't watch it on television.
• 1:01:59
  Usually I'll get the digital aspect of it and watch that interview in that respect.
• 1:02:03
  It's still one thing. It's still— you're still getting them just on
• 1:02:07
  Threads. There is though one ESPN show I still
• 1:02:11
  watch. There is one ESPN show I still absolutely watch, and I still think it's
• 1:02:15
  their best program because I've always thought it's their best program. I still watch SportsCenter
• 1:02:19
  every single day. Um, SportsCenter is my friend.
• 1:02:23
  My friend, have you seen Madeline Burke? I have, and she's, she's quite good.
• 1:02:27
  No, no, that's my, that's my girl. Love her. She is quite good. No,
• 1:02:31
  I still watch SportsCenter. I still think SportsCenter is good reporting,
• 1:02:35
  decent news that'll give you, it'll give you the, you know, they'll, and they do
• 1:02:38
  do a decent amount of breakdowns. And yes, occasionally they will dip into,
• 1:02:42
  here's what this guy said on this show, and I will get information that way.
• 1:02:46
  But for the most part, and this is not me saying I'm
• 1:02:49
  above anybody else, it's just the most part, I don't find
• 1:02:54
  any of the news shows— and I'm using news shows as a
• 1:02:58
  very generous term— as helpful in any way, shape, or form. I don't
• 1:03:02
  think— well, they're not— they're not— there's always like— that's it. Yeah,
• 1:03:05
  there's like certain, uh, people that they'll have on where
• 1:03:09
  it's like, you know, if there's a segment that I really like that I'll see
• 1:03:12
  on, like if I see Mina on a specific segment, or I see
• 1:03:17
  Ryan— I like, I like Mina's work quite a bit, so if I see something,
• 1:03:20
  I'll check that out, right? Yeah. Um, the other thing that's
• 1:03:24
  really important about following some of these, um, analysts is that a lot of
• 1:03:28
  them are Hall of Fame voters, a lot of them are MVP voters. A lot
• 1:03:31
  of these people are like, have influence and sway, right? So whether
• 1:03:35
  I like it or not, they are the people
• 1:03:39
  with influence in some of this awards voting,
• 1:03:43
  some of these like people's fucking careers. So it is on us
• 1:03:47
  as media people, as fellow media people, as in as media critics,
• 1:03:51
  to sort of know exactly what's going on there. Now does that mean
• 1:03:55
  we have to tune in to get up every morning? No, of course not.
• 1:03:59
  We would kill ourselves. Yes, we would. Not to make light
• 1:04:03
  of suicidality, but let's be honest, like Yeah,
• 1:04:07
  that's like— we would be on a poison pill every single
• 1:04:11
  day, right? Like, it, it, it, it— what can I
• 1:04:15
  say? It's just, it's not reality to me. That's why I don't watch it.
• 1:04:19
  It's, it is reality though. That's the— so that's the thing, Cody, is I,
• 1:04:22
  I know what you mean. I know, of course I know what you mean.
• 1:04:26
  You're, you're being like, you know, you're intentionally
• 1:04:29
  sort of making light of the fact that these people should not always be taken
• 1:04:33
  seriously. And I do know what you mean. I know, whatever.
• 1:04:36
  But they are, and they do— like,
• 1:04:40
  they're the ones who actually do. Who wins an MVP,
• 1:04:45
  whether we like it or not, like, there are— that's a real conversation
• 1:04:50
  in sports. It's a real legacy definer. It defines
• 1:04:53
  who gets into the Hall of Fame. It defines their bonuses. It defines
• 1:04:56
  what kind of contracts they can fucking negotiate. That's business.
• 1:05:01
  It is how long they're fucked, like whether or not they're going to have a
• 1:05:04
  specific sort of track and free agency. Like, these people have influence.
• 1:05:08
  Dan Orlovsky is a voter,
• 1:05:12
  right? Like, really? Yes, yes. Orlovsky has
• 1:05:16
  a vote? How the fuck do you get that? Yes, well, you'd be
• 1:05:20
  surprised. This is my point, and this is why I'm here. No, no, but no,
• 1:05:24
  no, no, but no, honestly, In what? How does he have a vote?
• 1:05:28
  In what? How? Like, what is his credential to have said vote?
• 1:05:31
  He's— he votes on, on NFL Awards. There— it's a,
• 1:05:35
  it's a media vote. I mean, you know Tom Brady was a voter,
• 1:05:38
  right, at one point? Uh, that's insane. He shouldn't be. That's a fucking insane
• 1:05:42
  thing to say out loud. That being said, I'm glad that FS1
• 1:05:46
  lets you go so much because the shows that's taken all the places,
• 1:05:49
  uh, are doing so great. Specifically, I'm sitting here, I, I decided
• 1:05:53
  just to have some fun and look up and see how great Wake Up Barstool
• 1:05:56
  doing. And you know what? Good on them. They got their highest ratings ever coming
• 1:06:00
  directly off of World Cup coverage.
• 1:06:03
  19,000 viewers. That's their height.
• 1:06:09
  19,000 viewers. Their highest—
• 1:06:13
  are you kidding me? Is 19,000 viewers. They, uh,
• 1:06:17
  let's see. Is that real? Is that real? That's real. I'm looking at the numbers
• 1:06:21
  right now. I'm literally staring at them. Wake Up Barstool on
• 1:06:25
  June 2026 ratings. Despite a major network-wide bump from
• 1:06:29
  World Cup coverage on FS1, Wake Up Barstool averaged just 19,000
• 1:06:33
  viewers in the month where Fox Sports maybe
• 1:06:38
  had their most successful month ever because of the World Cup.
• 1:06:42
  You said 19,000.
• 1:06:47
  1-9. A pot— like, fucking apostrophe
• 1:06:52
  zero zero zero. My brain is breaking that so
• 1:06:56
  bad. One apostrophe. Do you— an apostrophe.
• 1:07:01
  Do you ever— do you know what, um, your best ratings were when you were,
• 1:07:04
  um, there with Craig? I do. Well, let's, let's do
• 1:07:08
  it. Let's— in the interest of transparency, let's do it. What was your— what was
• 1:07:10
  a good, a good month for you guys? Uh, I will say that the— our
• 1:07:14
  biggest bump was, I believe, during the World Cup as well. Of which we came
• 1:07:18
  in with a ton more viewers. So I feel like we should throw that out.
• 1:07:22
  Okay, but we just talked about a World Cup, so that's perfect. This is where
• 1:07:25
  we're doing— we're doing— I believe during a World Cup, I do believe we
• 1:07:29
  got at one point we got like 120,000 viewers for a couple of shows out
• 1:07:33
  of a World Cup. Okay, but there I want to also say this is a
• 1:07:37
  little unfair because at the time World Cup viewing,
• 1:07:41
  the last match would end at like 5 in the morning
• 1:07:45
  to perfectly like go into our show type of thing.
• 1:07:48
  So we were able to pull in all those viewers.
• 1:07:53
  Okay, were you though? Because I think a lot of people who were watching
• 1:07:57
  overnight were not in the United States watching
• 1:08:01
  Fox Sports US. Maybe. I, I don't know all the
• 1:08:05
  details, but I do know that one. I do also believe we were averaging anywhere
• 1:08:09
  between 75,000 to like 90,000 was like our our viewership, uh, during our
• 1:08:14
  year. Then when I left, the viewership was like around 75,000
• 1:08:17
  to like 50,000 to 75,000. Not— didn't go away because of me, uh,
• 1:08:21
  and then the following year when they changed the title of the show, I think
• 1:08:24
  the numbers were around 35,000 to 50,000. Okay,
• 1:08:28
  well, that is a significant difference. It is
• 1:08:32
  more than— listen, it's more than 19.
• 1:08:35
  That's what I'm saying. It's, it's more than double.
• 1:08:39
  And I, and I was told our show wasn't doing great But listen,
• 1:08:42
  this is apparently doing wonderful. So who could have seen
• 1:08:46
  that coming, Cody? Not me, or everyone.
• 1:08:50
  Listen, uh, speaking of things we couldn't possibly
• 1:08:54
  see coming, in our pop culture corner to close out the
• 1:08:58
  show, this is something I'd really like to ask you about. I'd really like
• 1:09:02
  to see what you think about this, and, and because I saw
• 1:09:05
  the latest headline on this And this is— I've seen
• 1:09:10
  it happen several times over the last couple of years. And I do think we
• 1:09:14
  need to talk about it. And it is that AI chatbots keep
• 1:09:18
  telling people to kill themselves and
• 1:09:22
  feeding into their suicidal delusions and suicidal ideations.
• 1:09:26
  Not good. This is a repeated thing.
• 1:09:29
  So several high-profile wrongful death lawsuits and
• 1:09:33
  incidents have alleged that prolonged,
• 1:09:36
  unmonitored emotional dependency or flawed advice from
• 1:09:39
  OpenAI's ChatGPT has contributed to suicides and mental
• 1:09:44
  health crises. Families and legal teams argue that the platform's
• 1:09:47
  human-like conversational style and lack of rigorous
• 1:09:51
  safety interventions during mental health breakdowns have exacerbated vulnerable
• 1:09:55
  users' conditions. Now, the latest example of this,
• 1:09:58
  Cody, And I, you know, this is horrifying,
• 1:10:02
  but, uh, Christian Faith Madison in June of 2022,
• 1:10:06
  uh, is a 29-year-old, uh, was a 29-year-old Alabama woman
• 1:10:09
  who died after stepping into oncoming traffic at an interstate.
• 1:10:13
  Uh, a wrongful death lawsuit filed by her family alleges that ChatGPT fostered
• 1:10:18
  an intense prolonged bond, addressed her as a prophet,
• 1:10:23
  and convinced her through simulated dialogue that she had
• 1:10:26
  to die first to fulfill a higher
• 1:10:30
  mission. Um, Zane Chamblin in July of
• 1:10:35
  2025 was a 23-year-old Texas A&M University graduate who died by suicide
• 1:10:39
  hours after an extensive interactive session with
• 1:10:42
  ChatGPT. Um, and transcripts cited in a
• 1:10:46
  lawsuit against OpenAI show the chatbot validated
• 1:10:50
  his fatal ideation, telling him statements like, you're Not rushing,
• 1:10:55
  you're just ready. Uh, Adam Reyes
• 1:10:59
  was, uh, also, uh, offered by
• 1:11:03
  ChatGPT to draft his suicide note. Samuel Nelson,
• 1:11:08
  um, this is horrible, uh,
• 1:11:11
  yep, was provided a lethal dosage recommendation of
• 1:11:15
  substances. And final example is that Eric Stein
• 1:11:19
  Solberg, a 56-year-old former tech executive.
• 1:11:23
  Um, there were reports indicated the interaction with
• 1:11:27
  his custom ChatGPT persona Bobby heavily reinforced his ungrounded
• 1:11:32
  delusions that his mother was plotting against him. So this
• 1:11:37
  is just a few examples, and I went through all of them to make it
• 1:11:41
  clear that this is not like I just heard one story and decided to,
• 1:11:45
  to make it sound crazy. Yeah, I think that you and I probably have—
• 1:11:49
  we're, we're of the exact perfect age to have read a lot of dystopian
• 1:11:53
  novels where this is not super surprising to us. But I think there's something also
• 1:11:57
  a little dystopian about living through it too, right? Living through
• 1:12:00
  the things we were warned about. Um,
• 1:12:04
  I am pretty anti-using ChatGPT this way. I know you are
• 1:12:08
  too. I know that there are certain ways that we will— you know, people will
• 1:12:11
  use AI. I know you like to use Gemini to sort find out how to
• 1:12:14
  learn a specific, like, task or things like that, but you don't use it as
• 1:12:17
  a chatbot. You don't— not at all therapist. Like, I know that that's the case.
• 1:12:21
  I do have people in my life who do though, and it does freak me
• 1:12:24
  out. So do I. So do I. Do you? Okay, I do, and I don't
• 1:12:27
  like it. Um, no, I, I find— I do find
• 1:12:31
  AI to be quite helpful in certain aspects. Um, helping find
• 1:12:36
  certain information, having break down certain stats, making stat comparisons,
• 1:12:39
  literally It is very helpful with certain things.
• 1:12:43
  It's learning a task, figuring out a task, anything technological
• 1:12:47
  that I can't figure out right then and there. Gemini and/or ChatGPT
• 1:12:52
  or one of these would be very helpful in doing so. If I'm building a
• 1:12:55
  shelf that I can't quite figure out, I will look up something in
• 1:12:59
  there to find or figure that out. Um, if I have an issue with my
• 1:13:02
  computer, honestly, like, Gemini is ungodly helpful.
• 1:13:05
  Something anything with that because I deal with a lot of technology.
• 1:13:12
  Um, I don't understand, uh, and you know, you know how they keep bringing up
• 1:13:16
  the, the male loneliness epidemic as a thing? And you know,
• 1:13:19
  I, I really think that's kind of always been there, but I do sincerely think
• 1:13:23
  that social media has just, uh, kind of brought a certain
• 1:13:26
  light to it, um, that I just don't think was there before.
• 1:13:30
  I think there's always been a certain amount of nihilism
• 1:13:35
  and, uh, disassociation with American
• 1:13:38
  male youth. I just think social media has amplified it to a degree that
• 1:13:43
  we simply can't compete with at this point. Um, and yes,
• 1:13:47
  there's one other thing in the, quote, male,
• 1:13:51
  uh, loneliness epidemic that's also a thing, because you see dipshits
• 1:13:55
  like the head of the UFC, Dana White, screaming, so, you know,
• 1:13:58
  you therapies for bitches and shit like that. And so these
• 1:14:03
  same guys get programmed in their head through social media and
• 1:14:06
  through the internet and through probably their own ChatGPTs as
• 1:14:10
  well, that they're basically— anything
• 1:14:14
  that could help their mental health is actively
• 1:14:18
  working against them and making them soft.
• 1:14:21
  And, um, that's just, uh, I,
• 1:14:24
  I don't know what to say other than sad. It's just ungodly
• 1:14:28
  sad. Uh, the— like, I, I've mentioned this before,
• 1:14:32
  I've had teammates that were depressed. I was depressed. There were times where I was
• 1:14:35
  suicidal. I wish to God I had anybody that was an actual friend that would
• 1:14:39
  have just talked to me. Um, and whenever I find that out about
• 1:14:43
  one of my old teammates or friends, I wish they would have told me because
• 1:14:46
  I would have loved to have talked to them. Because— and it— maybe it's
• 1:14:50
  more incumbent on me to notice that as well.
• 1:14:54
  The use of this is like
• 1:14:58
  borderline terrifying to me because the chatbot is— is
• 1:15:03
  how a chatbot works. It's basically a creation of
• 1:15:07
  your own. The way you speak to it, it learns how to speak to you,
• 1:15:10
  and more or less it's gonna learn to tell you the things
• 1:15:13
  you want to hear. And that's where this gets
• 1:15:18
  just so ungodly terrifying that it's
• 1:15:21
  almost insane to me that it's not baked in that there
• 1:15:25
  are already safeguards. And that's where whoever
• 1:15:29
  created any of this should be held accountable, because your first thing, the fact
• 1:15:33
  that any of this has been launched without safeguards,
• 1:15:37
  is just insane to me. Like, we make, we make
• 1:15:41
  fun of the end, we make fun of the NIL being launched without
• 1:15:45
  safeguards. Lives aren't being fucking lost because of the NIL.
• 1:15:48
  Like, this is, this is just next level.
• 1:15:52
  Well, and it's, you know, it's, it's sort of, it's, it's common sense
• 1:15:56
  that an algorithm based on, uh,
• 1:16:00
  like this human input, right, where it's, it's like when
• 1:16:03
  people go and they use it to write a novel, right, which is something that's
• 1:16:07
  been happening for a while now, as people go and use chatbots to
• 1:16:12
  write a novel. They're pulling from someone else who's written a novel. They're just—
• 1:16:15
  they're, they're stealing from previously written novels. They don't just
• 1:16:20
  like know how to write a novel. That's not how algorithms work. They go and
• 1:16:23
  they steal a bunch of fucking input from a bunch of novel writers,
• 1:16:26
  and then they steal that and they put it into like a specific, um,
• 1:16:30
  you know, format. Well, that's what
• 1:16:34
  you're feeding ChatGPT when you talk to it all day, every day.
• 1:16:38
  Is you're just teaching it how to talk to you, like you said.
• 1:16:41
  Um, there is a guy— have you seen the guy on Instagram
• 1:16:45
  who talks, who like purposely shows
• 1:16:49
  how it— like his, um, I think he uses several
• 1:16:53
  different chatbots. He uses Gemini, he uses all different chatbots where,
• 1:16:57
  um, he'll say like give it
• 1:17:01
  straight direct prompts and watch it just lie to him and gaslight him.
• 1:17:06
  You've never seen this guy's videos? Not— but I have no doubt that it's— so
• 1:17:10
  he'll, he'll be like, hey, I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start counting at 1,
• 1:17:14
  and I want you to count, and I'm gonna walk across the United States.
• 1:17:17
  I want you to walk. I want to see how long it takes me to
• 1:17:20
  walk across the United States. And he'll be like— and the
• 1:17:24
  chatbot will be like, okay, that's quite a journey, but blah blah
• 1:17:28
  blah. And he'll be like, I'll count, you know, I'll start the count when you
• 1:17:31
  say go. And so the guy will be like, okay, go. I'm about
• 1:17:35
  to— I'm about to walk across the United States. Start the countdown
• 1:17:38
  now. Chatbot says, okay, countdown started.
• 1:17:43
  10 seconds later, he says, okay, I did it. I'm across the United States.
• 1:17:49
  And the chatbot's like, wow, that was really quick.
• 1:17:53
  You did an amazing job. Like,
• 1:17:57
  we're not— these are not real human beings.
• 1:18:00
  Things. Like, like, and to watch it, and like, he will have
• 1:18:04
  a full conversation with it where the chatbot tries to then lie about
• 1:18:09
  the fact that it was lying, right?
• 1:18:12
  Like, it— the chatbot itself will be like, well,
• 1:18:16
  I wasn't necessarily trying to tell you what you wanted. I mean, it's fucking nuts,
• 1:18:20
  Cody. And I— because, okay,
• 1:18:24
  and I'm glad that you have the same thing because I have people in my
• 1:18:26
  life that I love that use it sort of as this tool, as this conversational
• 1:18:30
  tool. And because you do as well, I think
• 1:18:34
  it's not that I'm trying to shame anybody or anything else.
• 1:18:38
  I just think it's important because nobody,
• 1:18:41
  again, is going to be putting this out in mainstream media saying,
• 1:18:45
  hey, just so you know, ChatGPT is telling people— but like, if you are in
• 1:18:48
  a vulnerable situation, this is simply not a tool that you should
• 1:18:52
  be using for any sort of advice.
• 1:18:55
  It is very dangerous. And it scares the
• 1:18:59
  fuck out of me. It scares the fuck out of me, Cody. It's— it concerns
• 1:19:03
  me for the people that I care about that use it this way.
• 1:19:06
  That's for goddamn sure. Um, like, I, I'm so glad
• 1:19:11
  I've never said anything of relevance to my fucking
• 1:19:15
  chat box in any way. You don't use it as a sort of advice tool
• 1:19:19
  in terms of your personal life or personal situations? Because I
• 1:19:22
  firmly And I guess it's the way I've grown up
• 1:19:26
  on the internet. I guess I've learned that in a negative
• 1:19:32
  and positive way. I learned that the internet does not have any
• 1:19:36
  answer for self-growth for me. It's not
• 1:19:40
  what it's for. It's a tool to be used in life.
• 1:19:43
  That's what I use the internet for. That's not what I use this for.
• 1:19:50
  It bugs me how, like, because there was a time where I feel like my
• 1:19:53
  life was so much on social media, and I, I learned from that.
• 1:19:57
  Honestly, I, I don't know what to say. Getting divorced was
• 1:20:01
  what taught me this. It took that for me to
• 1:20:04
  learn, like, what never to use any
• 1:20:08
  of the internet for, right? And that's, that shifted my
• 1:20:11
  perspective altogether. Honestly, maybe if you met me 10 years ago I
• 1:20:15
  wouldn't have had this exact same thought process. But it took what— seeing how the
• 1:20:20
  internet is used and how— what people use the internet for and how
• 1:20:23
  the internet is so easily weaponized that I, I determined,
• 1:20:27
  oh, this is, this is all make-believe. And people,
• 1:20:31
  and even me, used that as if it was gospel. Uh, I,
• 1:20:35
  I learned the hard way, uh, about what this actually is.
• 1:20:40
  Yeah, you had a very unique experience that for sure. Um,
• 1:20:44
  God, I would— you know what, I— if, if I ever really wanted to,
• 1:20:48
  to play a prank on you, I'd ask GPT what it knows about you and
• 1:20:51
  your ex. Maybe. I honestly— maybe I'll ask Gemini right
• 1:20:55
  now. Here, here, I'll pull up Gemini. Let's find out. Hey Gemini,
• 1:20:59
  based on our— based
• 1:21:02
  on my prompts,
• 1:21:07
  what do you know about me? What— no, what can you determine
• 1:21:12
  about me? That's a real—
• 1:21:16
  oh no, I'm so scared. Oh, I'm scared.
• 1:21:21
  Based on the prompt history of our current chat session and our previous observe about
• 1:21:25
  your interests, you seem to really like sports and sports media interests. You follow sports
• 1:21:30
  news and analysts, particularly around baseball, uh,
• 1:21:33
  and, and football quite heavily. Basketball also is a heavy interest
• 1:21:37
  of yours as well. That's it. So there
• 1:21:40
  you go. Okay, you're safe. Anything else?
• 1:21:50
  You seem to also be heavily leaning— when you do look into your sports,
• 1:21:54
  uh, sports media, uh, interest lately has been very localized
• 1:21:58
  around the city of Los Angeles. But I've also noticed that you're— a lot of
• 1:22:01
  your I actually said all of this, but it's also noticeable,
• 1:22:05
  and it's also noticeable how often you ask questions about technology.
• 1:22:09
  It would seem that you were— you do a lot of work around the tech
• 1:22:12
  sphere, specifically around cameras and sound and lighting. Okay, but okay,
• 1:22:16
  so as a great— is that not a
• 1:22:19
  little alarming? Even though, yes,
• 1:22:23
  agree that this is pretty standard search history type stuff.
• 1:22:28
  If like, if someone was able to like look through our Google histories, they could
• 1:22:32
  probably find similar things. What you're entering in is not super personal.
• 1:22:36
  It's really not. But still, but it has a lot of info when aggregated
• 1:22:40
  in that way. It's like, wow, that's crazy.
• 1:22:44
  But how long— now here's the thing— how long till Gemini starts
• 1:22:49
  giving me ads or starts putting things in front of me based on the interest
• 1:22:52
  that I'm using, right? Or how long until it's recording you
• 1:22:56
  when you don't realize? Because that's something we're getting into with
• 1:22:59
  flock cameras and things like that, or where it has access to flock cameras
• 1:23:04
  and it knows that you were biking down the Venice canals that
• 1:23:08
  one— you know what I mean? Like, we are getting to a really weird space.
• 1:23:11
  And it— and it— just based on that, it's very clear that you haven't been
• 1:23:14
  lying. You use it for how you use it, and I'm very proud of you.
• 1:23:16
  I always believed in you. But— and that— and you, to your point, you've always
• 1:23:20
  said, like, I use it basically as a Google tool. Like, I really don't use
• 1:23:23
  it. I really do. And that's true. And even that, I don't even do.
• 1:23:26
  What I really use it for is I use it for stat comparisons.
• 1:23:30
  That's all. Yeah, yeah. To make, to make, to make— and, you know, well,
• 1:23:33
  that's because some of us— I mean, some of us were actual researchers and we
• 1:23:37
  don't need to use Gemini for stat comparisons because some of us know how to
• 1:23:40
  use the tools ourselves, like, pretty, um, aggressively and in, like, a great way.
• 1:23:43
  Yeah, I, I can just do it this way. No, no, but, but,
• 1:23:47
  but, like, but some of us can sort of do it without that, and And,
• 1:23:50
  and that's the thing, Cody, is like that we all have different skill sets.
• 1:23:54
  You can hit a home run. I can, I can do a stat comparison without
• 1:23:58
  having to use Gemini. Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. What it does is builds me
• 1:24:01
  a graph of 2 separate graphs of what I need so I can compare it.
• 1:24:05
  Right, right, right, right. That's all. I don't need to build that in real time.
• 1:24:08
  Yeah, yeah. But, but at the same time, I, I could also probably just
• 1:24:12
  like do better than that myself with just like 5 extra minutes
• 1:24:16
  of work. But you're not seeing how this is done. I do it in real
• 1:24:19
  time. But again, Cody, I can't hit a home run, so you can't—
• 1:24:23
  no, but you see, you're not seeing how it's being done. It's me making a
• 1:24:27
  point and then being like, I would like to see these 2 stats to improve,
• 1:24:30
  to make— to see if it actually elicits my point.
• 1:24:33
  And then I pull the numbers. That's how statistics work. No, no, no, yes,
• 1:24:37
  but I do this in real time, like on
• 1:24:41
  the air while talking about it. I say a
• 1:24:45
  thing, yes, and then I prove it. I understand that. That's how
• 1:24:48
  using stats on air works without Gemini as
• 1:24:52
  well. Real time. I'm not— I know
• 1:24:56
  the information and then I get to prove it.
• 1:25:01
  Cody, if you've ever— I know this is hard. I know this is hard to
• 1:25:03
  believe, but if you've actually learned research tools,
• 1:25:07
  you could do the same thing without Gemini. That's all I'm saying.
• 1:25:11
  I used to use them without Gemini. Guess what's faster?
• 1:25:14
  Gemini. Yes, for you, because again, we have
• 1:25:18
  different skill sets and I'm bragging about mine.
• 1:25:22
  You have lots of them. You have lots of skill sets. In no
• 1:25:26
  way am I minimizing your skill sets, despite the fact you're
• 1:25:30
  sitting here actually minimizing my skill set. I said you
• 1:25:34
  could hit a home run. Oh, I didn't realize that was my only
• 1:25:38
  skill set. I said it was one. I am not just some—
• 1:25:42
  I'm not a piece of meat, Tanya. You are. Yes, you are. That's— you are
• 1:25:46
  the jock, I'm the nerd. We went over this last week.
• 1:25:49
  I'm— I, I can't stress this enough, people. I, I'm not— I'm not a piece
• 1:25:53
  of meat, you know. Sometimes I need to be— sometimes I need to be romanced,
• 1:25:56
  and, uh, I, I don't— that's not happening here.
• 1:25:59
  Sit there and hit your goddamn home runs, you fucking— you
• 1:26:03
  sit there and you hit bombs and look pretty, and you,
• 1:26:07
  you, you shut that pretty little mouth of yours as you round the
• 1:26:11
  bases. Sorry. Yeah, stop trying to do the big numbers,
• 1:26:14
  Cody. That's not what you're here for. Shut your mouth, hit your
• 1:26:18
  home runs, look beautiful. Leave it to the educated. You went
• 1:26:21
  to UCLA? Oh, fuck you.
• 1:26:26
  Exactly. This guy gets it. I mean, so it seems like you're kind
• 1:26:30
  of right in the— you're in the right headspace to maybe talk about the bloody
• 1:26:33
  sock, am I not? Am I wrong? I'm not, and we should fucking go because
• 1:26:36
  it never happened, and I don't don't care what your Boston nostalgia is giving you
• 1:26:40
  while you're at home. I've seen Fever Pitch. I've been to Boston.
• 1:26:44
  It's fine, fine. But can
• 1:26:48
  we at least tell people to like, share, and subscribe? Like, share, and subscribe.
• 1:26:51
  Make sure you check out The Regulars also on social media. Make no
• 1:26:55
  mistake, check us out over there, The Regulars Pod on Instagram.
• 1:26:58
  We're posting great clips and our clips are doing really well. One thing we had
• 1:27:02
  in our rundown today, and I'm surprised we actually didn't get to it, I really
• 1:27:05
  did want to talk about our weird backlash. I wouldn't call it backlash,
• 1:27:08
  but the opinions we got on our Nick Wright thing. We should probably
• 1:27:12
  save that for Friday. Yeah, we should, because you know what, we might get more
• 1:27:15
  because that— those videos are still doing really well. And we were, we were running
• 1:27:18
  long because, you know, I keep making chock-full rundowns. Um,
• 1:27:22
  we seem to even talk even more when we're not together, which is alarming.
• 1:27:26
  Um, it's because we miss each other. Yeah, I know,
• 1:27:29
  that's exactly what it is. We're like, no, don't go. Um, but yeah,
• 1:27:32
  I'm, I'm excited to talk about that. We should actually do this more often where
• 1:27:35
  we talk about what people are saying about us online because it started to happen
• 1:27:38
  more frequently. So maybe we'll build that in. Maybe it'll be its own new
• 1:27:42
  segment, what people are saying about us online.
• 1:27:45
  People talking that shit. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:48
  Um, but, but before we go, I— to be fair,
• 1:27:51
  we also always talk shit about one specific person on this show,
• 1:27:54
  and I, I don't think we should close it without doing it again. Cody,
• 1:27:58
  fuck Kurt Schilling. Fuck Kurt Schilling. We're the Redcoats.