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Video Game Genre Tier List | CreepChat 2 · Cart Creeps

• Carter Creepington: Creep Talk is what we're calling it. Jesus, Keith. You can't even get the name right. I just I'm not trying to make it anything. I just I I don't know what the official name is. So I'm just throwing It's creep talk. It's in the title of the last thing I said was ⁓ just just creeping. Welcome to Creep Talk. It I'm Keith. No, you're not. I actually saw you wiggle a little. But it w it was very it was very still for other than that. It did look convincing. Ryan's gotta keep all this in. You did it long enough. I now forgot what I was gonna say. I don't ever I I will just cut I've have free reign to cut anything I want. I cut out a lot of stuff last time that Gabe was saying. Everything that Gabe said, I cut it out. I don't even listen to myself when I'm talking, so Yeah. Hey, join the club, pal. ⁓ Welcome back to the second installment of Creep Talk. This time we're going to be doing something a little lowbrow. We're going to doing a tier list of our, well, just video game genres in general. And we're going to argue about it. ⁓ we got a whole list of That's what we're here for, baby. About 20 plus genres. It's not an exhaustive list. It's not all of them. So maybe your favorite obscure game genre isn't on here. But that doesn't mean we can't do it in the future. You know, keep building on this tier list. But before we get into that, Wanna talk about ⁓ last month's creep talk, which we had ⁓ high score challenge. Yeah, there's a very clear winner of Pokemon Pinball, Ruby and Sapphire, which was Jay. Jay, why don't you tell us what your your score was? I'm actually loading up the game right now. ⁓ fuck, I went to the wrong menu. Hold on He's coming up with a fake number just to No, no, no, no, first we'll set set the stage. First Keith and I were battling back and forth and I was like, hey, look at this, Keith. Like I got I think I got nearly ⁓ just a little over a hundred million, hundred and fifty eight million, I think. And I was like, nice. Like this is the best. And it was the best run I ever had for sure. Cause I never spent a lot of time playing it. And then before long, Keith hit beat me at like 180 something, 189 around there, somewhere like that. And so I was like, well I have to keep I have to try. You know, try to come back. So I was playing on my TV actually I had on the Steam Deck and I was playing it on TV, which actually seemed to make it easier because I had some pretty good runs, but I hit 198 million and I was like super proud of that because it's like sweet. Like I I wanted to hit break 200 million, ⁓ but I couldn't quite know little did we know there's a fucking pinball demon amongst us that just awakened. It probably I lost the first ball too in like the first like five minutes. So you can try to be humble. I did that. And then and then the second ball last year. I couldn't figure out how to do the over an hour bumper. Like I I was try I was ⁓ cause I was focusing I mean, it makes sense thinking about a Game Boy, but I was like it should be like A and B, right? But it's like A and one of the directional pads. Left. Yeah. Left, yeah, the left directional pad. So like I was like not hitting the directional pads and It's the button. I also feel like bumpers, the bumper buttons would make our I actually tried that before I tried the directional pad because it's Yeah, but that's like Scorigan Ryan. Yeah. The one you got that big Keefe account. My first game, not the flex too hard. I I didn't know it would happen either. I didn't know it happened either. But my first game was 391 million. And then played a second game. Just first first try. Like right off the He's got he's playing on original hardware too. So he's not. I don't know how good the score that actually came in pretty good. ⁓ so those are my top three scores. I came in a second time with three sixty four, and then just for the love of the game, I kept playing it and I got eight forty eight million on the reason. It's funny 'cause he could have won with that first one. Still, yeah, yeah. He definitely kept one he w wanted to rub it in. And then I went to the ⁓ The Sapphire table just for the fun of it. And I got these scores. So I actually cracked a billion. And Ryan was kind enough to look up my Ruby score on retro achievements. Yeah, it's just a And I was seven thirty five worldwide with that eight forty eight million. And so I decided to check the Sapphire one. I was also seven hundred thirty five the exact same rank for the jersey. A cart creeps. Jersey that has So he's better than us, but he's not better than all of you. Maybe one of these listeners is one of the seven thirty-four above me. I was like, I didn't try like really, really hard, but I tried pretty hard with like key when I was trying to beat Keith. I spent like an hour ish trying to beat him and I was like, All right, cool. I beat him, I'm gonna go to bed. Like not and I'll I'm sure he'll beat me like past me again, and we'll go back and forth and see how but I was like it was tough to get to a hundred and ninety eight million for me. And then like I wake up the next morning because Jay's playing at like eleven o'clock or something that same night and it's like three hundred million. I'm like, Well I give up. Yeah, I I was I was itching to like beat Ryan again because he beat me because I I can be very competitive. ⁓ and then Jay just fucking slams his fucking dick on the table. Yeah. At that point I was all I was only playing myself. Yeah, that's yeah. Because I I was second with two hundred and ninety two million. Yeah. I was like I had it set in my mind. I was like, I can beat Jay, come on. I can I can at least get close and like You got close to the first score I got. Yeah. Yeah. No fucking shot. I didn't know I was that good at that game. I had it for crazy. I just had it like you know, I didn't play it growing up and never had it till recently, but I bought it as I started collecting more and I'd never really played it, but I'd played the first one a lot. ⁓ I've never even played pinball before. I'm not good I'm not really good at real life pinballing. I'm actually really bad at real life pinball. I think it was just the Pokemon aspect. I think it it the catching Pokemon just made me really good at Of course Jay's good at it. Real life pinball starts. I like pinball games. I have a cup quite a few on some of my retro handhelds. Just some other good ones out there we could put on there in the future. It all started with Space Cadet Pinball. Yeah, we all remember this basic pinball on the computer. You can play that. I believe you can play that using portmaster on a lot of the Lilinux handhelds. but ⁓ Jay, since you won and ⁓ that means you get to pick what we play, everyone plays next. And to be clear, anybody can play and participate in this high score challenge. Just go to the high score challenge section of our Discord. Also check out our Discord if we haven't, which we haven't mentioned so far, but check out our Discord, join. Car Creeps. Yeah, Car Creeps. ⁓ it's in our link stuff. You'll see it linked below. ⁓ check it out. And ⁓ talk about your high score challenge. Also talk about the game of the month, which you didn't mention, but it's don't it's Metal Warriors. We might cover it a little bit more in a minute. But ⁓ Jay, if you want to tell us what ⁓ your choice is for next month's high score challenge. Yeah, so I was I was gonna be boring and just to Tetris, like a Tetris high score for the Game Boy, but I gave a I gave it a little more thought and I wanted to put a spin on it. So I I chose Super Mario Kart. I want to do a time tri trial of Bowser's Castle three, which is the hardest map that you get in the base game without having to like play any of the modes. ⁓ the special cup was is locked starting the game, so I figured let's not put extra work into it. We'll just do Bowser's Castle three. But ⁓ I wanted to choose that too just 'cause it's a very Super Mario Kart seems very accessible now. ⁓ I want these other our other core listeners to try and do this challenge too. But yeah, the goal will be to get the fastest time in Bowser's Castle three. Nice. I'll put it up on the screen on the screen. And it'll be in the post when it comes, yeah, time to post it in the Discord, the high score challenge. It'll be pinned and everything. And tell you it'll also tell you how long you have to to finish it. ⁓ watch watch this just be Jay consistently obliterating us until like we actually we actually get like people to start participating. That good at Mario Kart, especially Super Mario Kart, but I haven't played it, so we'll see what many people are good at that game. I've been obliterating my nephew at Mario Kart World races. Okay. I've been playing a little of that, doing some online races. Yes. I need to try online just to see how bad I really am. I remember playing DS Mario Kart DS online and of course it was like early days of wireless like you know, go hot spots like Wi Fi, or at least to me, I didn't have access to Wi Fi when the DS first came out. So I had to like we only had we had a wired connection for the Xbox three sixty, but we didn't have Wi Fi yet. So like ⁓ went to like McDonald's to get 'cause they had free Wi Fi. It was one of the first places that had free Wi Fi. Panero Bread also had it. We were going to both of those places just to play Mario Kart, like online and it's you're playing with people that are from ⁓ other countries and they are extremely way way way way better than you so it's like it wasn't fun. ⁓ We would we we would play high school on high school like a group of us we'd all bring our DSs on the bus and did you ride my bus? I I don't know. I no I don't think on yours. I don't think so. Because we did the same thing on our bus. You know it's weird. I don't think Keith rode my bus, but we definitely that's weird in Twitter Like my butt I don't know like there were multiple buses. What number was dox? I don't I don't remember. I don't remember what businesses probably I don't live there anymore, so it's not really doxing me, so yeah. But the ⁓ yeah, like one one of us had the game and then the every everyone else just joined in and when you joined. Who you playing with? We're we'll redact their name if it ⁓ Kyle ⁓ Amber Leaf I don't know these people. I don't know these people. Forget the guy, yeah. I forget the kid who actually had the game. I forget. I played David and Kevin for the most part. ⁓ we played ⁓ Animal Crossing, Wild World and Mario Kart. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause you can just host it as like you don't have do you even have to have the cartridge? No, you didn't have to have multiple copies. You could just like broadcast. If had if you had a copy you could play this, you could Yeah, if you had a copy you could play a character. What I was gonna say. Nintendo would never let that fly today. Yeah. No shot. at least they still have carts. Yeah. First party games have carts. That's a big like thing I see online all the time on our when I'm l using our disc or ⁓ our Instagram account. Follow us on Instagram if you haven't. groups. It's like people complaining about no physical because the whole no physical media thing happened with Sony and everyone's like, Well, that was the episode of our first talk. Even our ⁓ go watch that. ⁓ Link and up here, which Gabe's probably above me, but above Gabe, there's ⁓ maybe it's on the other side. I don't know. You're pointing at me right now. Yeah. So go watch the first one. But ⁓ yeah, online everyone's always like Nintendo doesn't even they're they're just like they're just like the the keys, but like that's not True of first party Nintendo games, it's an option for third party publishers, which Pokemon, the Pokemon game for Switch 2, isn't it's a key. It's not because it's Game Freak's not like Pokemon Company's not technically Nintendo, but it is. I played it. Okay. So maybe that's one of the like odd ones like But Procopia, the Pokemon Crossing, that is first party, but it's still a key. Yeah. So that's what like that's one. That's like the only one that I can think of really. That's first party. That is technically ⁓ like the full cart. Well that's what I'm saying. It's not technically first party 'cause Pokemon Company is technically not owned by Nintendo. It's its own entity, I believe. So I think that's why. But yeah, it's up to the publisher to like ⁓ decide that for themselves, I think. And like if it 'cause it costs a little more money, obviously, to put a game on it than make it just a key. So it's yeah, that's yeah, blame them. But Sony They're just getting rid of all. They're they're doubling down on it too. Like you see the backlash, you're like, Yeah, we don't care. Yeah, I mean You're still gonna buy it, bro. Yeah. I'm a PC gamer, so all of my stuff has been digital for a really long time. But like I get it. I get the frustration because like I'm just not really a collector. Like obviously Jay is, you can look behind him and if you're watching. not really a collector, but I understand and I get it. Like I'm fine with I wanna do want to have like ownership of my digital stuff still. Like all the games I own in Steam, I want to still have access to them if I like I don't want them to be able to revoke it at some point. Go to jail. You know, I want to be able to play with Steam Deck. But anyways, we can get into our first ⁓ tier list. ⁓ where we go, guys. Tier list video. ⁓ be fun. I don't know. We we Right. Let's see. ⁓ let's start with in the stack on the right. I don't know if it looks the same for you guys, but I see Gabe first. So I'm gonna say Gabe, you get first pick of which genre. ⁓ yeah, so to clarify, ⁓ picking but we were ranking video game genres by S through F. Actually, Jay, you said to make this certified creep, so I don't know if that'll fit. It'll just like I think just go below and just like wrap the text looking good. Good. For F do certified creep. Crap. ⁓ Okay. Fart creep. Okay. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a something that we made early on. There's a dot ⁓ a bot in the Discord and it's like an auto responder when you do say certain key phrases, it will reply to you. And there's one that's set up for fart creeps and no one's done it yet. But it's a it will if you do say fart creeps as a joke in ⁓ our Discord, the bot will reply to you. So try it out. If you're listening, join the Discord to try it out. All right. ⁓ Gabe. So we're gonna go around the table and each person's gonna start and Gabe's gonna pick one and he's gonna say, I think it's this, and then we're gonna argue with them. And then everyone gets one ⁓ card, creep card, what do we say, a bumper, where you get one per game for this this whole thing, right? If you say your one you really are passionate about ends up in like C tier. And you're like, no, that's not it's not C tier, it's B tier or A tier. It's really I think it's A tier. But you can bump it up one choice up one or down one if you really hate it. You could also use it for that. You only get one. And if you don't remember agreeing to this, I feel like Ryan just made up this rule for the fighting genre. That is part of what it is, but Keith's gonna Keith's gonna shit on something that I like too. I know it's it's up to Gabe to choose fighting right now to decide the fate. Keith doesn't choose yeah, it's gonna be big Keith out. I'll bump it all the way down as far as it we can physic physically go. All right. Fight creeps. What is your first choice from all these ⁓ options? And then for Mortal Kombat with the K. You know what? Mortal creeps with the K. I'm gonna go with something I think most of us would actually agree with. I'm gonna go with ⁓ visual novels first. Visual novels. I'm gonna put that at a solid fart. Fart creeps. I agree. Yeah. I don't play those cause. I've actually played a few and I really enjoyed them actually. What's what what do you enjoy? Yeah, I was about to say which ones would you enjoy? Okay, well let's clarify what a visual novel explain a visual novel is because it's similar to JRPG, but it's not quite the same. In some ways, they're completely different. Vision games actually I guess you'll explain. Because I mean Persona is a is my first thing that comes to mind. Is Persona a visual novel or is it a JRPG? J RPG. Full full on. But doesn't it have visual novel elements to it? Well, no. Well, Persona 3 Portable did have visual novel elements to it. Okay. But that's a weird spin off version. ⁓ but no. Visual novel is it is exactly what it sounds like. It is all dialogue. Some of them have Some of them have do have gameplay elements too. You need press A. Gameplay elements. So like some of them are like one visual novel series I really like. ⁓ it's the ⁓ Zero Escape series. ⁓ the first one is 999. They have like they have like puzzle rooms, but like that's like a very really realistically speaking, when you break down the content of those games, it's like small puzzle room, and then like all dialogue and choice visual novel choices and things like that. I guess that's that's that's what those are. ⁓ so it's like there's it's like visualistic dialogue. A lot of them do have choose your own adventure. Those a lot of them have like pick your choices and like the Zero Escape series is more known for like going like redoing different routes and things like, you know multiple options, multiple paths and story options, things like that. It's like that's kind of it's all built around that. But visual novels are that's what more of those are like. You know, those are It's mostly just like really dialogue heavy games where you're reading I like to read, so I I enjoy visual novels. When's the last time you read a book? It's like a five minute pause after you asked that question. ⁓ that the Ryan's gonna cut out. Yeah, I just had to cut it down. Cut it down. It was actually like way longer than it is appeared on. I like an actual book book, it's been a while. ⁓ but I I still do like to read. Okay, I do like it. I'll read a comic book. I'll read I read manga. You read manga? Yeah. That's ⁓ mean, that's better than nothing when it comes to reading. You know? Yeah. I was gonna say, I mean, my take on this, I haven't played any of ⁓ I would just read a book. I don't I mean I like Those are visual novels, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I've never played one. Yeah. I've never played it. I I've played Zero Escape. I've played the first two. What'd you give it in terms of ⁓ ranking from S to ⁓ certified creep to fart creeps? You know, those are actually I I consider Zero Escape is amazing, especially second. That's like one of the best games I've ever played. But ⁓ I don't know about best game ever. But they are fun. ⁓ that being said, I played them. Having not played a visual novel really over I would I would think that maybe game like even having the puzzles in the game would be enough to count it as a puzzle game and not a visual novel. It's weighed more way more towards the novel elements than like the sometimes are the puzzles hard? Are they like does it take you ⁓ I know in the second night ⁓ Zero Escape game. There were like some puzzles. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ There were some puzzles I struggled with, but again this was like fifteen years ago maybe. Yeah. So Well, he's even dumber now, so he could be Actually I was probably dumber then. ⁓ for a reason. Okay, money. ⁓ I mean the puzzles were fun. Yeah. I did play I did play. You guys aren't virtuous selling me on Yeah, I mean I can't present enough of an argument to not I've I mean I've only played I'm willing to say ⁓ this one series. And I really like that series. What do you think of genre as a whole? I wouldn't say it's an F, 'cause you know, I mean, the one the couple I've played, I'd say I'd say a C. Like I mean, like I I enjoyed it, but like I wouldn't like they're great the I mean, when they're a great story, then like you really then you can enjoy it. But like otherwise, you know, it's you're not playing it for like the hardcore gaming parts of it. Yeah. You're playing it more for the story. I mean like if I looking for a story in a game, I would just play a different game that had gameplay and story, like where you have to move around and do stuff besides just read. And I mean, I like reading books. Like I have a whole bookshelf of books that I haven't read that I want to read. Eventually I like collecting them almost. This guy doesn't read either. I know I read today. I read part of a I read some book some book today. I'm still working through the ⁓ Barsoom series from ⁓ what is his name? It's the John Carter. John Carter of Mars is the ⁓ the character. But ⁓ Edgar Rice Burroughs, ⁓ classic like pulp kind of you know, pulp fantasy kind of thing. ⁓ yeah, working through those still six. Yeah. I think that is my argument. If I want to read, I'm I'm gonna read. I'm not gonna read if I want to play video games, I wanna play a video game. I'll put it in D. Yeah. I'll put it in D. I mean, I'm not I wouldn't argue that. And it's they're not the worst, but like, you know, there's this is our our cart creeps official. tier list for genres. So it's our opinion and it's correct, obviously. So that's what we're talking We'll read the comments, but you can argue in there. I'll read the comments. I might argue back. I'll probably reply in the make your own tier list. Post it in our Discord. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us you're wrong, but you yeah, all right. Tell us why you think you're up. Jay Jay, you're you're up next. Which one would you like? I I'll I'll choose Platformer. Platformer classic, one of the first games you most people play. You know, you got your Mario. Ever heard of him? I haven't. I haven't startless learned about him. I I'll put it in A. Put it in A. I I would like to put it in creep, but I don't want to put it something there so early. That's always problem with tier lists. Yeah. For me Well you the end you can kinda rearrange at the end no no this is wrong. Yeah, we'll come back to it later. Well, like you said, the platformers what most people start with. ⁓ I love platformers. I I'm pretty good at it. They're they're fun. Rayman's fun. I like two D better than three D platformers. I like them both three D. Mario Galaxy's one of my favorite platformers. Ratching Cling is an action adventure game. That is totally platformer. It's got platforming elders in it. So it's like I would I would put it more half platformer. Yeah, it's more platform. The strafing elements, like yeah. It's like I mean you're shooting stuff, but like Well, is Mario Galaxy a platformer or is it an action adventure game? That's a platformer. Yeah, consider most Mario games. Most of the people pretty you do pretty much the same thing in those two games. So like by your logic then they're both platformers, though. Yeah, I say. Well, they're either both platformers or they're both action adventure games. And I think that Ratchet Clank is action adventure. I would say opinion. I'd say you're right. I could I could argue that I could say that, you know, Galaxy it could be action adventure. It's mostly action. It's a lot of shooting the little ⁓ doohickeys. I'd call it an action platformer. That's fine. Yeah, you know what? It's not on here. Action platformer. I I would say platforming is a key element to like every Ratchet and Clank level. Like there's the problem. There's the whole genre of like that Ratchet and Clank Jack and Daxter ⁓ Sly Cooper. Sli Cooper. Like those are all very platformy, but I mean there is another element to them. Yeah. Crash Bandicoot. Yeah. Crash Bandicoot's platformer. I would say that's straight up platform. Just as a platformer. Yeah. But yeah. I got no problem with platformer in A tier. That's the ⁓ yeah. I was gonna say the the odd old two genres are it's just it's ⁓ you know, it's very loose. It's like trying to classify something. It's like same thing with music. It's hard to classify you're trying to fit this stuff that's kinda hard to describe into a box. Keefe, I have a question. ⁓ yes. I love answering questions. Did you play your Astro Bot, Keith? No, I did not. Man, what is wrong with you? Play that game. It is like a ten out of ten. It came out a few more game of the year. Yeah. It is so good. And that is like platform through and through. Yeah. Playstation mascot robot. I can't play it. The new PS mascot. It's it's ridiculously good though. Little big planet. Yeah, that was platform. It's a good game. That was even 2D. I didn't play the the last one. I forgot what they called it. I just played the first one. Yeah, but they made it like an adventure. A tier. My some of my favorite platformers. Sackboy run. Yeah, yeah. Adventures of Sack Boy. Yeah, something like that. One of my favorite platformers is Super Meat Boy. ⁓ that game's hard. I think Fez is a platformer. It's like a you turn the I know if you guys ever played Fez. It's a good one. I like that one a lot. Yeah, you should you like Shirk this one, but I know. Those are one of my some of my favorite platformers from like the 2010s era of like indie games. ⁓ have you all played Ultimate Chicken Horse? Sorry. It's another I've seen it. It's like it's like you told me to we should play it, but we never could be an episode in itself, just us playing that on scene. ⁓ it's like a it's a it's a party game, but you know it's All based on platforming. You basically start line here though. So there's a start line and a finish line, and you basically there's obstacles each person chooses between each round. It's like you kinda go to grab for the obstacle you want. There's like a little cursor, and you just lay the course. You try to make it unbeatable. And then you try to get to the end and collect points. And it's it's really fun. Well, so everyone agrees that platformers at least it's an A tier, right? Yeah. Yeah. That was a that was a gimme. Yeah. Just go ahead and pick the one you're gonna pick. I'm not picking fighting games yet actually. So we're all on the edge of your seat. ⁓ Ryan's a bold move. I I'll pick farming like our simulation simulations. Like Simulation. Simulations. And that is like Rucker Simulator. Like this this one's a pretty disputable. What? What what Keith, what sorry, Keith, you go first. Tell us what the rink is. Sorry. ⁓ Sims, I think. Go and fart creeps. No, no, no. No, no, no, no. Not wrong. Sorry. I find Animal Crossing, do the wire Stardew Valley. Lire. Do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This has become a trend. Sims of that nature, I find the most tedious, boring pieces of stuff. You play fighting games. Fighting games. Those are the things No, they're not. No, they're not. No, they're not. Hey, careful. Careful James, we love Smash Alright, I'm gonna put it here because you said it's a fighting game. It's it's a fighting game, but I'll I'll always I'll defend Smash on that. It's a fighting game, you know. But look, Sims, I like Stardew Valley, like fucking animal, like all that stuff's like you just don't have the IQ to understand those games. What's what you wait? You sit and wait, so you can't ⁓ no, you gotta ⁓ I gotta go I gotta go buy my crops and ⁓ It's about building an empire, motherfucker. I don't want to play these games to live out the life of a boring ass farmer. You do that in real life. I then no, I'm not. No. I'm sorry, Keith, you're wrong. I agree. That's the most boring shit ever. I would never want to like simulate such a boring skyline thing. Sarde Valley's so good. Sims 3 is good. Sarde Valley's great. ⁓ 30 Valley has some of the best fishing in a game I've played. Sims is like you can like get you can get weird with Sims. I'm gonna get weird Animal Crossing. You know what I'm gonna double down? I'm gonna wait, wait. I'm gonna double down here because I played farming simulator at my brother in law's house. And I bet it was fun. I had fun with it. I I was like zoned out for like an hour just you know Planting corn and ⁓ I gotta plant my crops and ⁓ it's harvesting season, everybody. Mechanic simulator. I played that one. Payday keys before too. That one's pretty good. It's about making the moolah. So what do you Okay, so Jay and Gabe, what do you guys think? I'd put it in A too. I love simulation games. I I don't think it's A tier. I think it's like C B tier at best. I think it's probably B. Yeah, because I'll give it B because What it what a lot of simulators are good at is just it's kind of relaxing. Like it's you don't have to think a ton. I mean, there's some obviously planning and strategy to it sometimes. I'll can I'm st I'm saying strong A to make the B average more there. ⁓ because I'll concede to it being B overall, but F is disgusting, Keith. Yeah, it does it more than F T R the Sims is so fun too. I love The Sims. Me and Ryan played a lot of the Sims back in high school. Yeah, but in Sims I But the Sims is called the Sims because it's simulate it that's what it's the name of the Yeah, but I was focusing on very specific games when I was thinking about that. I meant farming sims in particular. Have you ever played a farming sim? Yes. I this this hate wouldn't come from a place of no knowledge. This comes from what do you think? How do you have a question? Why did you play a sim? I'm just curious. Like when did you So what do you how do you feel about like city games, Keith? Like Sim City roller coaster tycoon. That's really But they look more fun because you can do something really dumb ⁓ like Build a life built roller coaster that just into kills a bunch of people. Yeah. It was like dumb stuff like that. Cut it. Cut it. No. I it's a sim is it a sim? Yeah, it is. I mean they're the same. They're similar. We could I guess. It's like a subgenre. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ maybe. Yeah. It's it's still sim, but it's just city sim. Hey, you guys agreed with this list. Yeah, I guess. All right, my turn. ⁓ I'm gonna pick something that's a low hanging fruit and go ahead and get it out of our way, and that is MOBA's ⁓ what is it? Massively online battle arena? Is that what it's I was about to say, isn't ⁓ like Marvel Rivals? League of Legends. No, wait. ⁓ no, it's League of Legends. And ⁓ Dota Dragon Ball Gaxon Squad. I don't know anything about any of that. I still say far away from ⁓ Any even like looking at the gameplay. We're gonna put Blizzard has one, I figure what the name of the Blizzard one is. ⁓ so I'll agree with this. If Ian, if you're listening, I'm sorry. If you're listening, also comment, leave a comment down below at ⁓ Ian. Yeah. He taught people how to play league or something, right? Like he's a pretty good gamer. He's a good gamer. He's good at all games. I think you're right. He did tutor people. He would be he was good at League, he was good at Diablo, the new Diablo that came out. And he's also really good at fighting games. So shout out to ⁓ He worked at Eva. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ MOBA's stink. I played League a couple like when it was early days of League, and I was like, What is this? It's like it feels like an MMO, but it's not an MMO. Like it's kind like an MMO. You take the MMO combat, which is like the macro button mashing of like you set up your macros and like, okay, this move does this. I think that's the the general idea of it. But it's just a battle arena. There's no like MM like RPG part of it. It started as a MMO like custom game made out of an MMO. So yeah. And like that part of MMOs is kind of fun, I guess, when I play them. We have MOS on here too, but that's not what I like about MMOs specifically. I like those for different reason. So I think we all pretty much agree none of us like MOBAs. So we put it if you put the right skin on it, I'll try it. I've never been into league. I like it never looked good and every time I'd see like a game, I'd always notice that it's the same maps, like the maps don't change and like I don't there's no lanes and stuff and like there's it's always there's like a meta. But the meta is known by everyone. Right. And everyone does. Everyone min maxes like whole teams. But so it's fighting age is the same way. But Hey, hey. But the Leo, like I say, if you put the right skin on it, I'll try it. Like Dragon Ball Gection Squadra is a MOBA. With Dragon Ball Z or Dragon Ball characters, I should say. And I tried it and I've been enjoying it. I didn't think I would, but you know, if you make it it's really frustrating. I understand why League has that toxicity ⁓ reputation that it does. 'Cause even not playing League and playing this type of game, wow, that shit is really frustrating. So so but you know, I've I wouldn't try a MOBA if it didn't have the right IP on it. So I wouldn't really I wouldn't say. I didn't even know how to properly define MOBA, so Well, there you go. ⁓ massively online battle massive online battle arena. ⁓ anyways, next up is Gabe. Next Jabe's second pick. I just want to point out that it says battle royal and not battle royale. I yeah, I saw that too. Fucking idiot. Ready to go, dumbass. Stupid. Do the do the voice thing but make it say stupid. Stupid He's talking about himself. You're an idiot! I think this is Forex Civ is funny that it got its own whole category, but I guess I guess it is. Yeah, because like does like Pick one. Does Mountain Blade count as that? Make your pick. Make your pick, bro. Mountain Blade I don't even know what that is. Make pick, bro. It's not really no, it's not a four X grand strategy. That's what four X means, four X grand strategy. That's like a civil it's like Civ specifically, like where you're building a ⁓ civilization thing. It's a very visual heavy episode, by the way. So if you're listening to the audio podcast, I mean all these making there's nothing on the screen but a tier list. Like I've listened to a tier list podcasts, shout out to Massonomics podcasts. They've done some really ridiculous ones. Massonomics wearing the Masodomics shirt about like machines, you know, like Well like as in like, you know, workout machines tier list. ⁓ so yeah. And it it was a podcast. So I mean which is ⁓ it's also there's a video component. You what I'm gonna I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with our first certified creep and that's action adventure. ⁓ I'm putting action adventure certified creep. No, that's top tier that's that's the game genre. That's it. Yeah, come on. Anyone, Jay? ⁓ I think it's A. Zelda fan. I would say A I think A too. I think it's A. At least in 2026 it's A. Maybe like 15 years ago it could have been the toppest tier. But ⁓ I feel like just the massive growth of regular RPGs just brings it down a notch by default. RPGs have everything that those have, but like, you know, so many more systems and components. Yeah, the modern triple A ⁓ action adventure game is actually like not as well leveled as it used to be. It's like it was just like the big thing. This is a fine action adventure, at least loosely define it. ⁓ game like a modern example would be like Uncharted, I think. That's not even that modern anymore, but ⁓ an older version People know Uncharted. It's a really big genre, cause like Zelda is also yeah, yeah. Zelda's also action adventure. If it if a game feels like an RPG But there's no abilities, like your character doesn't have abilities and you can't upgrade your character, then it's probably an action adventure game. Like Red Dead Redemption 2 and Grand Theft Auto, all of them, I guess, would be action adventure games. You do an action and you're doing an adventure. Action is like simple. Real time, you're actually like you're not an adventure game would be like missed. Remember back in the day when you could point click play San Andreas and make CJ fat? You're still That's kind of an RPG, isn't it? Yeah. You could eat chicken till you threw up. And if you use too many cheat codes, it would starve them. You can make Arthur fat and there's an RPG light elements in some of those games. I feel like you could almost having said I ⁓ you you say that now, Red Dead Redemption 2, if that's an action adventure game, I'm going S tier still. Like I don't like this might be one of the greatest games of all time. Tell me that genre that it belongs to. Red Dead Redemption 2 is a good game. But it's not like the greatest game. That's a hot take. That's a hot take. That's a super hot take. I think it's a pretty great game. It's a good game. It's a really good game. I've played through it once, twice. I think the mechanics perfect. The story perfect. The mechanics is just rock it just feels like Rockstar shooting shooter mechanics, which have never been that. the best part of the rock star experience anyways, especially like older games, they're okay now. The everyone gets hung up on like, ⁓ like the if it's cold, the horse's balls shrink. And it's like, okay, but like that doesn't add to like the game experience. I mean, visually, sure, it's a more immersive world that looks more realistic. Yeah. It makes it makes you feel like you're there because you're looking at horse balls. But it's like the story's good. The story is really good. It's a good story. ⁓ but you know, everything else about it, like Especially the online component, which that's like I guess that's separate that's a separate discussion. But like it's a fun game. It's fun to ride your horse around, look at stuff, it's good, but it's not like I wouldn't there's a lot of games I would offen I'd put above it, in my opinion. I go back to Red Dead Redemption 2. Yeah. Plus I mean there's a lot of games that can have ⁓ you know, like an S tier game and a not S tier genre. Right, exactly. Virtue's Last Reward is an S tier game and a D tier genre. Yeah. You think GTA 5 is better than Red Dead 2? I think you guys will you probably think Red Dead's better, don't you? I think so. I mean I'd have to go back and play, you know. I haven't played either. Probably. I would probably say Red Dead. I just like driving cars. I love driving. I do like the driving. ⁓ but yeah, Action Adventure? I would still I say A. I feel like it's A too. What do you say as A? I still think S tier, but I'm gonna wait to see about using my bump. I might need it at a more critical juncture. We can't just wait till the end to use them all. ⁓ we should have explained this in the beginning, but maybe we should make it real going forward like if you want to use it, you gotta use it like when this is being voted on. ⁓ I'm using it hands down. All right. Well Gabe's out of ⁓ I mean, that's fine. They're good they're good games. Can I bump it back down? Fuck yourself, idiot. ⁓ You can if you want, yeah. No. If somebody loses it, wait until waiting until someone else uses it to then fuck them up. Somebody use their bump, they can't somebody else can't use a bump on it. Yes, they can't. That's like a lot of Yeah, why not? Nah price is right rules. Fuck you. If it's Jay wants to waste his on that too, you know, it doesn't get it. He doesn't get it used anywhere else. Yeah, being petty enough, that one can see him through. I'm not petty enough to argue that that's a not an S tier certified creed. I mean it's it's one of the better it's one of the best genres. It's not the best genre. It's definitely also for get people forget in the tier list, there's lit you tier the tiers as well. True. Whatever's the furthest left is the best genre, which is what, you know, there's a better one to happen here. In a second. Yeah, which is now Jay's turn. Jay, you can go ahead and put the Yeah, I was going to last here. We'll go ahead and put the RPG to the left of action adventure. Yeah. Yeah. fine with that. Everything of an action adventure but more. I'm actually fine with that. No R that's great. RPGs are the best game genre ever made. To be clear I'll say it now. There's a lot of podcasts left, but I'll say it now. Yeah, JRPGs are a separate ty a separate genre on here. They're specified. I mean, you can also RPGs a bridge it's a broad title, which GRPG falls under. You have AirPGs, you have C RPGs, ⁓ T RPGs, tactical RPGs. So yeah, I agree. RPGs are my favorite. They're my most played. ⁓ Fallout Four, Fallout New Vegas, Fallout ⁓ three, yeah. Finally seven. I played so many RPGs. Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy Seven. ⁓ and Final Fantasy Seven too. That was the best. Yeah, it's by far my most played. ⁓ The Witcher 3, Kingdom Come Deliverance, both the all those, you know, Mass Effect, ⁓ RPGs are by far my most played and favorite genre. And there's people out there that don't like ⁓ There's a lot of people out there that don't like them. There's people that have never played Skyrim, which is why just have tiny smooth brains. They can't comprehend. Living an entire another life. You you gotta make that character for me. I can't make a character. You want me to name my character? I will say, like, I almost brought up the Witcher 3 in the action adventure seg discussion a second ago because like that's one I could you feel you could argue is almost just an action adventure. Because there's a little bit of character stuff. You can kind of do your builds. Like there's the different armor. ⁓ I was about to say yes. There's a different thing. There's a tree. Yeah. Yeah. You're Garr you're just Geralt. And it doesn't that stuff doesn't really affect much about how the game plays or sorry, the story plays out. ⁓ it's a good game though. It's one of my favorite games. I guess yeah, you don't have to RPGs don't have to have it to where you create the character 'cause Kingdom Come is definitely an RPG and you're just Henry. Yeah, Gabe. Yeah. Gabe's Henry. Yeah. We'll put But you can be so many different kinds of Henry. You can be flower picking Henry, you can be drunkard Henry. You mean muddy? Stinker Henry Henry. Dyson Henry. Dirty Henry. Yeah. Dirty Henry. It'd be Knight Henry. Mm-hmm. Noble Henry. Axe Henry. ⁓ Mace Henry, you know, sword Henry, which I usually what I do. But yeah. I'll speak up for the I'll speak up for the JRPGs here in this little section here. So have half of a backup person when you're Is that your pick for your the next ⁓ Next ⁓ you're you're up next in I think it's easier just to throw all them all under RPG. It's not no way. Yeah, but right here it's its own thing, it's its own separate category because they're different enough. We're all everything we've mentioned so far is a Western RPG. It's all we've talked about. All the ones we games we just mentioned, all Western RPGs, you know. It's that's the West. But no, it's not made by Russians, it's made by Bohemians. ⁓ sorry. Yeah, right? Isn't it from Behem yeah, it's yeah, they're from Bohemia as well as also like ⁓ the game taking place there. ⁓ Witcher is ⁓ Polish. Yeah, they're Polish in the device that's the West Keefe. If you didn't know that. I wasn't counting that one. I meant I thought Kingdom Hum was the ⁓ No, it's made Russian, so but Kingdom Come is not a J R P Geef. I wasn't saying it was. What is the developer? Why can't I think of it right now? War horse? Something horse war horse. Is it Warhorse? Yeah. Okay, well yeah, I'll just throw fucking well, I guess I'll Go next. I said J RPGs should also be certified Greek personally. No. Sorry, Keith. You know I mean the amount of boring text that you have to read through every JRPG. I like to read West. ⁓ Yeah, for the most part. I mean older ones are like ⁓ the older ones, yeah. You you had to read a lot read a lot and notes. You had to read a lot. Yeah. But they're talking about stuff that is interesting and matters. JRPG will have like four paragraphs about one of the characters, like puppies chipped their toenail, so they read a book about it and were sad. This is insane. This is absolutely in every G RPG. You just played Far Secret, that was not in there. Parts equivalent that were weird to that were probably in there. I have a a hard time deciding where to put this one myself because I know ⁓ obviously to me it's not this high ⁓ high up, but I would put it in B. There's some I do like and there's some I really, really don't like. So I think in the middle it should be C or B. And I think if we say it's if it's less than B, people are gonna A almost. There's I would say A. If you're not I if you're not gonna say certified cream, I'd say A because I mean Look, I mean even all those like Rhine's been playing Dragon Quest, Gay Play, Golden Sun, like those are those are also J RPGs that are. Pokemon is a J RPG. Pokemon's in Christ Games, it's like it's come on. It's like you know you can't. I I'll I will say like I like the turn based battle of most J RPGs like a lot. I like turn based battle systems. ⁓ I'd say that's what differentiates a J RPG from like a Western battle. For the most part, I think that's kind of what what it is. There's obviously exceptions to that, but that's generally like the differentiation is that it's ⁓ turn based. Right. Which is fine. I like I like turn based games like Fire Emblem, but that's not a JRP. Stick of truth is a J RPG. That's true. I don't know. I think that what is the other component the other component of a JRPG, we talked about this obviously in the last episode. Paper Mario is ⁓ there's gotta be like a story. Like it's a it's a like anime style story typically. Most of the time there's like a big, bad, evil guy and you're like the little chosen one guy, typically. That's the I mean Western RPG is for kind of It's like it's all the But they want to give us the hero different. I don't know. It somehow it feels different to me. You know? Maybe I'm wrong. I think ⁓ that's that's more of a culture. I would say, ⁓ your hero has a different name sometimes in Western RPG like, no, you can do that Final Fantasy Seven. I name my cloud Max Power. Yeah. It's like it's all the same. It's like you can like it goes some ⁓ some weapons kind of change their backgrounds, but like they're mostly like like Jay said, like you're still playing as Henry and you know, Kingdom Comm you it's like it's Pokemon is the exception. I think A tier Pokemon is the exception. It's all JRPGs, the 'cause the mass customization of movesets and amount of monsters you can choose from. It's unbelievable. Persona also has that. And Final Fantasy Seven also has that. Yeah, they don't have a thousand creatures you can battle with. Well, one doesn't have does it doesn't have that either. One game has about eight hundred though. Persona has ⁓ has a hundred has over a hundred. ⁓ persona's Oris Omega Ruby alpha sapphire goes into seven hundreds. See now we're talking about the specifics of JRPGs, which I really don't want to do. Well it's too bad. That's what we're here for. ⁓ JRPG's ⁓ is a B tier. A tier. I'd say A tier. Jay. As The massive Pokemon fan of the group. I still say B, just 'cause I think I think J RPGs have a lot of games that aren't good. Like the games that are good shine, but I think there's a lot of you can throw that on any at literally any of these. Yeah. I say B. I I say the best of the games of the J JRPG genre has to offer are not as good as the other things that are higher than it on this list, is my platform. I agree. Yeah, I'd much rather play a pap any platform than a J RPG. I'd rather play Mario, original Mario. I mean you can do I I'll make this art you can do this if you want, put it above simulation. But top tier. But top tier B top tier B anything above better than this. Like Kirby Kirby Dreamland 2. Much rather play that than most I still like more than G RPG, but I'll I'll give the group this. I do too. I that's my only that's my compromise I'm willing to make. I also agreed with what Jay said, but I'm not putting it in A. It's not better than platformers. No. It's not. Mm mm. No way. We would put it behind platformers. No, we're not no A tier. We should have brought us here fifth person in. Well, too bad. We have four. Well, we the fifth person that we the the ⁓ most obvious people we would pick. Well, it depends. Phone a friend. There's a couple that would say it's F tier. Some people say it's S tier. Yeah. That's why we have varied, ⁓ we have very varied. friend, you know, opinions on games as well. So they're all gonna be enjoyable. Mm, we can move on from this one. Otherwise we're just gonna keep arguing about it. Maybe we wouldn't ⁓ it's my turn. Nah I think you might be saving for something. I'm saving mine for Keefe. I'm gonna start picking the really non offensive ones that ⁓ you know well actually it's gonna all this is gonna make ki ke you guys mad if you're mad about what JRPGs is at right now. Also, I'm driving the list, so I get to pick. I'm driving. I'll say speaking of driving, I'll say racing. Racing. Yeah, yeah, let's go. You know you've got my back. ⁓ I'm gonna say my opinion, I actually like them a lot. ⁓ I like him. I love it. I would say it's like them a lot, but I can see why how it would be B tier, but it doesn't have a it doesn't have a huge mass appeal to a lot of people. A lot of people have no interest in it whatsoever. But I mean it who's like Mario Kart, you know? Who doesn't like playing Mario Kart? It's a racing game. It's not a it's not a sim racing game. It's not your Forzos or your grand turispos, which I do enjoy. ⁓ I love I'll take more arcadey racing than arcade games, yeah. Like outrun, super fun. I think like as a whole, as a genre, there's need for speed, burnout. Need for speed there's so many good racing titles. I think it's an A tier, in my opinion. I don't know what you guys think. I love racing. There's never a time I walk into an arcade and don't hop on at least one racing. Yeah. They make Console extensions for racing games. You can buy steering wheels for home driving. You can buy real cars and you can race them too. That's how they like the the game. Racing games were so good that they made it in real life. I do love a good racing game. Surprised I thought we would disagree more on this. I getting ready to use my bump to make this. But if we're here and then I don't know what it will do. I don't play ⁓ a ton anymore, but I feel like I play them more than you guys. They're a game that's always fun to go back to. Yeah. I own a fair number of more modern ones. Like I well, I don't own like super modern ones. I got I have Forza Horizon ⁓ four. Whatever one you and I have for the one that's in the UK, ⁓ England maybe, or UK specifically England. I have the ⁓ Rally, what are they called? It's the rally games. Rally sports racing or something like that? It's like ⁓ the Codemasters one. I don't remember what they're actually dirt, sorry. Okay, dirt Dirt Rally. I dirt really I own NASCAR NASCAR Heat 4, but I never really played it that much on Steam. I have a f I own quite a few racing games on my Steam account, but even NASCAR had like a arcade version of the is that NASCAR Thunder or something like that? I I may be ⁓ NASCAR Thunder was the yeah, that's the arcade. Okay, that's a good one. ⁓ NASCAR I had NASCAR ninety eight for PS one. That's one of my first racing games ever. And that's it has Molly Hatchet's flirt with disaster. as the opening song. It's it's sick. It's like it really sets the scene for ⁓ that and I I remember playing NASCAR games a lot as a kid too, customizing my liveries on my cars, you know. ⁓ yeah. I had the Need for Speed rally game for PS1 when I was a kid. And like I just remember it looking so good back then. Yeah. We had Hot Pursuit. Need for Speed, Hot Pursuit on PS1, which is one where you just like run from the cops on a track. Yeah, yeah. It's like fixed track. ⁓ then we also had Then Fast and Furious came out and then they did Hyperstage Underground. Yeah. That's where yeah, they're so good. They're they're Underground too. Midnight Club. I like Midnight Club. Midnight Club's functionality. I didn't like it as much. I don't like the I like to have a f a closed track. I don't like it to where it just an arrow sends you wherever and you can go watch the course. Yeah. I that's why I didn't like Burnout Paradise. It does do that, yeah. That and also the fucking Paradise City was the track, title track for that. I think that song stinks. Every time you loaded the game, you got a piece of that intro. Yeah, that's ridiculous. But I love burnout. But ⁓ Forza opened it as well. I don't know. I like Forza a lot. I like Forza's a ton of fun. The the little road challenges in the open world in Forza, how you can like just go to any given road and do like a drift record or a speed yeah you know race whatever the horizon ones. I actually played a lot of three and four like fours of three and fours of four which were the more sim ones, not the horizon open world ones. And I like those a lot too. There's a lot of customization and stuff on those. And I've played Gran Turismo's a little bit. ⁓ they feel Like speaking of JRPGs, they feel Japanese, like the menus. That's one thing a JRPG has specifically. Like the menus feel like a JRPG. I don't know if if you know if you know what I'm talking about, you kinda get it. Like it's there's there's just more menu going on. And they're le there's more it's less stylized than like a Western game would be. What you mean? Like, yeah. And that's how Gran Turismo three is too. It's a lot of menus. ⁓ or Grand Turismo, yeah, GT3, I think, on the PS does that that would be PS3. Was it g no GT four? I played one of them on the PS three. ⁓ which wasn't even mine, it was my brother's. So I'm gonna go it's kinda hard. He had all the time to think, and now he's frozen. We took a twenty minute break. There's a twenty minute silence in here that Ryan is gonna cut out. I wanna go with ⁓ My god. I'm gonna go survival horror. ⁓ what do you think? Somebody goes I'm gonna go B B. B on survival horror. I would say A on survival horror. We're at in we're at in B. ⁓ Above simulation but under J RPG. I would say survival horror is an A. I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm pretty lukewarm on horror. That's fair. ⁓ I haven't played a ton of them. ⁓ Besides Resident Evil. I know Dead Space is a popular ones. Similar alien the alien RPG or sorry, not RPG, but the A alien game's supposed to be really good. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ Prey is kinda like a survival horror game. You guys ever play Prey from like twenty sixteen? No, but the pretty good ⁓ that one. Okay. Do you think that's survives? That's kind of survival. Yeah, but it's like a re ⁓ redo of it. Yeah, it's totally different. I can picture the ⁓ I can picture this Cover, but I never played it. Yeah. It's pretty good. I think it that would probably fall into survival horror. I played both Evil Withins and I thought those were good. Yeah. Is that survival horror or just straight up horror? Made by Shinji Survival. Survival horror kind of is defined. I would say it was survival horror. I would say it did that. It's made by Sh yeah, Shinji Mikami made those, so he's being made Resident Evil. So that makes a lot of sense actually. I I I have no argument here. I think survival horror is fair and be. I haven't played enough of them to like I'm will I'm willing to be convinced. You played Resident Evil two, which is like I said, Resident Evil created Yeah, Resident Evil Two was awesome. Yeah. I played Dead Space back in the day. That scared the absolute hell out of me. I did beat it. It was I was just late. Yeah. Jay is a horror movie guy though. Yeah. You know not a horror game guy. It's more of the survival part that bugs me. Johnny I I don't necessarily like hoarding resources. Mm-hmm. I ⁓ you know, I d I wanna be ⁓ I love that. It's my favorite part of the game. The horror's my least favorite part. Yeah. I don't like being scared. I like having a bunch of ammo. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I would argue this is certified creep if it wasn't for the scary parts. Yes, they're scary. I wanna play Dead Space. Like I wanna play Dead Space. It is legitimately really scary. You should play with like headphones in. ⁓ yeah, it'll it'll get you. I haven't played much horror stuff and I don't watch a lot of horror movies either. I'm not a horror guy. I I'm fine with where it's at. This big old scary cat over here. Yep. I do like horror movies a lot, but I would say it's A. Just at the back like I said, just at the back of Resident Evil alone. ⁓ but then you all throw in like again, Dead Space and even within those were also great. ⁓ I I'd say it's an A tier genre. Just the issue is I keep ⁓ Been rating things low and then you guys bring up games and I'm like, well, that just seems like an argument for it to be higher for me because I know Dead Space is supposed to be amazing. So yeah, but you you can't judge the whole genre on I mean, yeah. But I mean that's all we're really talking about. When a game's series is good. Then you do judge it off that. I was gonna say when a series is good, like I'd say if RE's good enough, then I'd be down with A. I don't know. That's A. Do you think so it Not better than racing games. No way. Yeah, I agree. Okay. I'm fine for low A. It's better than JRPGs for sure. Yeah. I about to say Keith put it above J RPGs. I would say I would say that. Yes. I'm I'm going low A. Low A. Okay. Yeah, I think we can do that. One day we'll have to get a C tier game. I'll choose it right now. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. ⁓ I was actually gonna choose puzzle. I'll put it I'll put it in C. There's puzzle games I like, but like Noah, dude. Tetris. Yeah, it was Put it to B. Put it. Put an S to your game. Put it behind Sim. Put it behind Sim and B. Puzzle No. Puzzle is Puzzle is up here with platform. Puzzle and Platformer are on par. And so we talk about puzzle platformers, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about just puzzle games, like Tetris, Doctor Mario, like What is that Super Super Puzzle Fighter. Keith put on our Steam sale list, bejeweled for jeweled. Bejeweled. Yeah, what's that? What's that Xbox three sixty Xbox Start Live on mom was Hex Puzzle Games and Creep Tier. Hexic. Yeah, I mean, I I I love puzzle games. Puzzle game I put on my little retro handheld things, I put puzzle games on all the time because they're perfect for playing when you're not trying to like spend a lot of time. You just need to t kill time, like a little bit of time. You want to spend You know, like all I play Solitaire. I'd still argue I'd argue high Quadro. I don't know if I'd still argue high B then. Yeah. I mean I mean I'm not much I'm okay with that. I mean I don't know. I don't know. It's I would see public mini game or like a mini genre. That's kind of where I'm at too. Like some of those can be really fun, but like You do you can get burnt down on it pretty quick unless Puzzle Bubble? You are just Bust Move. It's a bust bubble shooter. I used to play bubble shooter on the internet. Yeah, a web game. For free. Yep. Puzzle is such a broad category, but it there's 'cause it's like a very easy game to make, you know. So there's been a In the same sense that you know what ⁓ I mean? What would you put that in if it's not a puzzle game? That's a puzzle game. I know what you're talking about. I I didn't skip played for it's just like level to level, you have to solve the riddle of the room. Yeah. Like you're traversing, you're climbing stairs and finding keys and stuff, but you That's it's like a at its core a puzzle. I would say it's puzzle than platformer, but it's definitely more puzzle. It's definitely more puzzle than platformer. 'Cause like when I think of just puzzle, it's just You're on a board as Tetris or something similar. Super puzzle fighter. Yeah. Which is just a bust and move clone. We already said that. Maybe we didn't, but I'm saying it. Isn't there a Pokemon puzzle game? There's a Pokemon. Yeah, it's Kubert a puzzle game. I have no idea what Kubert is. I've only seen the guy. I've seen it, but like he pops up like an isometric board. I think it's kind of kind of a it's more like a What is Pac ⁓ Man? Is it a puzzle game? Is it an action adventure game? What? It's a JRBG actually. Pac-Man. Pac-Man. Pong? Pong's a sports game. Pac Man is definitely an adventure game. Yeah. ⁓ Puzzle and High B, that's fine. I mean I just don't I won't take puzzle slander for the only C. That's no way. The only yeah. I I that's fair. I I always talk out of that right I like your art. I still like it below A because I still think, you know, it's it's just one part of a game. Yeah, right. When compared to other games on this list. I think more people in on the planet play puzzle games than play any of these other kinds of games because of games like Candy Crush. That's well that's a the like. Well yeah, that's it's a game. Those are games. I'm not saying it's not a game, but that's That doesn't make a better quality. They're saying more people play it. Is that making that automatically? More people on the planet without utensils, it's just the right thing to do. You can't really give moms and dads ⁓ elder scrolls on their iPads. If only puzzle games. I'd love to watch your mom play elder scrolls. ⁓ me too. Gabe brought up the utensil thing. One time Gabe was like, monkeys eat bananas from the opposite end. 'Cause so that's how I do it. It's like, why would I eat you what a monkey does? I'm not a monkey. It's it's the best way Why would I eat it that way? It's the best way to eat It doesn't make it the best way to peel a banana. Gabe bananas backwards. I don't even know how you do that. How's that even you just kill the top? You hold the like sticky the stick end upside from that and you peel it from the other way like a f like a monkey, which is how you're supposed to do it. Well they've been eating they've been eating in bananas for generations. No one does it better than them. They've got the science down. Yeah. They have bigger hands. Tell me you know more about eating bananas than a monkey. I do know more about yourselves than I know more about monk bananas than monkeys do. Monkey. You don't know shit from a dick about bananas, Ryan. I'll bet a monkey's never had a banana on pancakes. That's true. I bet a monkey doesn't know what potassium is. And a monkey in a zoo has probably had that. They probably don't. Yeah, most Dumbest thing ever heard in my life. ⁓ anyways, what's ⁓ what's well maybe let's see, Keith, what's your choice? yeah, so much time. Gate Gabe, no, Gabe took survival horror. I was gonna I was gonna put some Do we get one bump per episode? Okay, he gas better. No, you use it up for you. You used it up forever. You can never try anything again. Yeah, I'm waiting. ⁓ I'm waiting for my mind. I'm picking. You know, fuck it, we'll do it. We'll do it now. We'll do it now. We'll do it live. I'm picking fighting games. I'm putting that in A tier. Bump that's just absurd. Bump to be. Wherever wherever we land it, we'll see where it lands. Let's see where there lands. Like first. Well we will discuss it first, then we will use our bumps because we're still on this category. ⁓ For me, can I can I s for me, ⁓ I think I should go first. Fighting sits on fighting sits on the same plane as puzzle in that it's just like one part of a game. And that's the whole game. I I see what you're saying, but keep going. It's very it's a very one dimensional. Go ahead. Just start with your original thought. You choose your character, you you fight, you win or lose. That's the game. That's what racing is. That's the whole game. There's drifting. There's different tracks. There's there's different stages, there's different characters, there's different ways to The stages are just flat. There's different types of characters. There's three D fighting games. There's platform fighters like Smash Brothers. There's all kinds of different fighting games. Come on. Don't be silly, Jay. Come on. Come on. I love being silly. That's why I'm here, brother. I mean, look, I'm very biased. I love fighting aids. I've been playing them forever. I love the obviously the all the different characters are always amazing and always f just always look wide variety of different kinds of fighting games. That's what's also really nice, is that there's like I said, there's 3D fighting games, there's two D, there's more anime style, there's fucking tag fighters like Marvel vs. Capcom, which is one of Best series ever. You know, there's always, you know, fighting games are an incredible series, ⁓ just genre of games to play. I love them so much. Even when I'm bad at fighting games, and I'm always bad at the beginning of fighting games, and I'm bad at just also some fighting games, I still love playing them. Yeah, I also get really mad when I play them. But you know, that's that's part of life, you Not as mad as Ryan. But I just think that with the the amount of complexity that is in the game and the amount of You get out of it what you put into it. It's like it's just so much fun just diving into a fighting game and just playing picking a character that you think looks cool and just does this cool thing and just like learning how to do that cool thing over and just ⁓ no, no, ⁓ no, ⁓ no. No fucking games are fucking stupid, Ryan. Let me explain what I'm talking about. Can I speak because it's so much it's so easy to just dive in? No, it is not. The barrier for entry for fighting games is the highest of any other game on this list. There's no other game on this list where you can just pick up and like play. Yes, you can. It's worse than as soon as you try to compete. Listen, let it's my turn to speak. I have the talking stick. You but you can literally you can you can buy you can play 2xko which is a free to play fighting game that has down but like one button fucking specials and just jump into that and play. It's like that's the easiest fucking way to get into a fighting game if you want to. It's like there's there is a fighting game out there for you that meets whatever fucking complaint you're about to make. If it's too hard there's easier games. If it's too easy there's harder games like there's there's an easy way to get into these. If you don't want to, that's fine. But like you know, don't like it. Like you can get It is Ryan's turn. Everyone fucking gets into Smash Brothers. Like, come on, what are you talking about? Hey. It's Ryan's turn. Go ahead. Go ahead. Like I was saying, the barrier for entry for fighting games, especially the like the popular ones like Tekken and Street Fighter and Let's ignore Smash. Smash is a little bit different. It's more a little bit more casual. These other ones are have tournaments, right? Based I mean there's Smash. Smash also I know they all have tournaments. I let me speak, Geef. I've All of them have tournaments. I understand. That's the whole point of a fighting game is a tournament. It's that's the point of it. It's only competitive. That is the entire point of the genre is competitive. It's competition. And I get that. A lot of the games on this list so far don't have any of that like in them. A lot of them are single player experiences or You know, I mean MOBAs are it's competitive, obviously. It that's its whole thing. But this is another moment. It's ⁓ on the fart list. And that being said, like the barrier to for entry to start if I I ⁓ start playing Street Fighter or start playing Tekken, it's like you can't play with anyone online. You can't play with anyone you know that already plays the game. So you have to start playing like with against a computer, which is also probably gonna beat you if you're first starting out. You have to sp like you said, you get out what you put in, but you have to put in so much to be good at fight not even be good, to be even slightly competitive at fighting games. And it's like that's the same problem I have with MMOs. You have to put it so much time into it that it's not the juice isn't worth the squeeze, in my opinion, for fighting games. It's just and it's also like Jay said, there's it's a one trick pony. It's like it's fighting. You fight I there's combos, there's different characters. I get that. Like that's that's what there that is the game. But that's all there is to the game. There's I can put Spider Man and do fighting with just as many combos as any character in a fighting game, but then I can just like run up buildings and do other cool side quests and stuff. And that's like a beat ⁓ up thing, which is also I don't think that's on here, but it was originally in our original list, so it'll be on the next one. Yeah. I think that deserves its own spot. Which is like a mi ⁓ fighting game light, which I do enjoy beat ⁓ ups, but that's not a fighting game 'cause fighting games are just more to it. Guy here, guy here or girl. Guy or girl or or ta guy with a tiger head. ⁓ You know, kind of thing. It's Jaguarhead. And they Jag Yeah, and they fight. And ⁓ I like I I mean, it's one of my first probably experiences with arcades is seeing fighting games, you know. Everyone has seen fighting games in arcades. One of the first things that's competitive, it's good multiplayer. And like it's fine to like I mean, I would play them, I'd probably try to play them at an arcade and I'd be bad at them because I was a kid. But even now I'm still bad at them because even as an adult. And it's like I don't want to spend the time to get good at them because like there's it's it's a whole scene. That I'm not gonna be a part of because I don't have the time to get into it. And I just don't like I don't know. They don't appeal to me. I it's not the competition doesn't appeal to me, because I like first person shooters and that's on here and that's one of my favorite genres. We haven't gotten to it yet. It's just like, I don't know. Fighting games, like you have to be it's like the sweatiest of the of the gamers of the you know, it's it's whole I would it's its whole thing. Like yeah, mobile tournaments. I'd say MOBAs are even first person shooters are MOBAs probably. MOBAs are you're probably the fighting's up there. That's tough. Yeah. I mean I will say I don't think you're right about I think the barrier to entry being high, but I I think that's only for if you are gonna start playing with other people. I do get what you mean. If you're trying to play like if I try to play a fighting game, you cannot play with other people. Yeah, but that gets boring in a day. That's really boring. That goes back to the point of the one dimensional thing. Let me let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. All right. I've played Fighting. Let me finish by myself. Let me be clear. I've played like Injustice. I play Marvel vs. Capcom. I have fun with it. I and it's kind of the same with like a simulation game. It's not as relaxing, but for a puzzle game, I it's a game I like to pick up for like thirty minutes maybe and play, but it's enjoyable to me. Like it's still fun to play like a fighting game by yourself. I don't and my hands get perfectly easy on this. You guys can have fun with your arthritis in five years. Yeah. ⁓ but I'm not gonna play games already gonna do to you no matter what you play. Especially fighting games. But ⁓ I don't know. I don't think they're that bad. I do agree with like the the idea that like you do have to put a lot into them if you want to play them. To the extent that they should be played, maybe. Like in tournaments and stuff like that. But you can also play them and casually and just enjoy playing the I think going for the mindset of like you have to I have to win at this to have fun with it, that's not that's not the case. But what is the point of the game if not to win? Isn't that the entire point of a fighting game is to win the fight? That's what it's about. Yeah, but I mean I would agree with that. Even when you lose, you lose, you lose, then you're like, ⁓ I lost. So I think you learn to get better and then like You you set your own personal milestones of what you want to do. Do you want to be the greatest to ever do it? Then like that's a lofty goal and you'll probably not do that. So it's like, yeah, you'll get really frustrated. But like if you'll be like, I wanna beat ten people online today, and then like, okay, and you work towards doing that, like you start you don't have to like jump straight to I wanna go to tournaments. I didn't start going to tournaments until like last year or like two years ago. Like really physical tournaments. Like I was doing online tournaments and like building. He actually fights. During during like COVID and stuff, but like you know, like I was still shitting myself just like trying to the idea of going to a tournament 'cause I was so nervous. And like but then like once you go, it's like, dude, so many people there are just hanging out playing fucking fighting games and just like, yeah, they'll lose and like, yeah, they don't care. There's like talking and having fun playing fighting games. It's like it's Yeah, I think the community part of it is it's it's its own thing. It's fine. It's a like it's a good thing. It's a positive thing. Right. It's never as like sweaty and like hardcore like It's not I mean like I'm glad that things like Evo exist. You know? You get the energy like out of it like what you put into it. It's like if you kinda go into that with that mindset, it's gonna it's kinda really gonna burn you out. But like there's so there's more fun to be had with it than just I can only get home with this if I win ranked online. 'Cause like I not even that. I can't win like I don't see it being fun playing against the computer. I don't understand like Gabe's thing like play it for thirty minutes. Like I'd just play something else. I'd play a puzzle game or something. My thing for fighting you can do arcade mode run like thirty minutes and just my thing though is I get ⁓ I can only play like if I'm playing a fighting game, I can only play it for thirty minutes 'cause it's so monotonous. Like combos, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight. Like, you know, I wanna do other things other than fight. And for that reason, I think it should be on B with puzzle for that same principle. It's like a part of a game. I agree with B too. I I think you get I I I can see that. Like if you only play the computer, ⁓ then it can be kind of especially once you like you kind of solve the computer, like you know, they can they like you know how they're gonna play. They can definitely fall under that. But you know, I always have a lot of fun playing Jay in Smash because like we'll always we'll always pick different characters or yeah, you know, play different stages and like stuff like that. Playing Smash on the couch is a ton of fun. The fun and like the extra thought comes in of like doing something different and like it's like doesn't always Two matches never gonna be the same. For me, Smash, like a lot of the fun is like it is the multiplayer with friends, but also just like the characters and the movesets of the characters. Which you you were talking about movesets, but like Smash is so left field because you're just playing like with the whole all star Nintendo roster, which is like all these other fighting games have original characters with their own lore within those games, but like Or you could play Smash characters come for injustice. I mean, you know. I don't know. That's mostly what I play is like Marvel. Smash is also way more arcadey. Even like when you do do the no items, ⁓ I feel like I don't know. It's more arcadey in ⁓ its soul. I get Smash as like a couch thing, but I'd rather play any other couch game than Smash. It'd be my last choice. I'd rather play Castle Crest. Halo or ⁓ Super or Mario Kart or something like that. Ryan hates people beat him at Smash. Well, what's the point in playing it if I can't if I lose to everybody? It doesn't like I who am I supposed to practice against? I mean you don't play I've never beaten Jay or Keith at Smash and I still have a ton of fun playing it. I don't have any fun playing it. I do have fun at Smash. That said, I still think ⁓ fighting deserves B tier, which is is good. B is good, Keith. I think it deserves I think it's C tier. I think it's B tier. I think it's like what Jay said it's I think it's more one dimensional than the other one dimensional games we mentioned. I guess I think why Keith wants it to be A tier, because he loves it. ⁓ I do. I think for the other reason. I think Ryan's saying C tier is fair for Ryan, but ⁓ I mean I personally think it's B tier. I'm right. No. Mike can use my thing. I'd even put it above Right behind puzzle on B. I'd put it above puzzle. B tier. I like puzzles. I would also put it above puzzles. I'd put it behind puzzle. I think respectfully it should go above puzzle for Keefe. Respectfully speaking, my respect. You put a disrespectfully to Jay, but respectfully to Keith, I'd think it should go. I'm gonna disrespect Keefe right now. I'm gonna put it in C with my thing but he's gonna bump it up. I'm gonna bump it back up. So that's fine. That's fine. I bump it down to B and or C and Keith bumps it back up to B. And now we're both out. So it's only J. Yep. Only J's left. But it's Ryan. It's turned ⁓ I don't think it's the worst genre on this list. ⁓ obviously there's two other ones I'd I'd pick fighting over the other two. But I would play it last. Yeah what about clay fighters though? What? Clay fighters? What is that? Bay Clayfighters, it's Clay Fighters for Nintendo sixty four. I know. And Robopit. Robo Pit's a fighting game. That's that's fun of my turn. Is this our last pick? Yeah. For this potentially. So Jay, what are you gonna do with it? This is your last opportunity to bump something. Yeah, you still have a chance for it. I still I name my next one. I don't have to bump. Yeah. You don't get to have two next That's fine. I don't need a bump. my last pick. ⁓ just to yeah, to be clear, we're probably push this into another episode. Not the next episode, but another future episode. And if ⁓ you want to suggest some items, you know. I'll you do I'll go ahead and do my last pick because we're getting pushing our time, what we wanted to spend on this. So I'll gonna pick FPS. First person shooter, which is a very broad genre, which is another issue. ⁓ yeah. This is ⁓ I mean it's a very distinct character. It goes yeah it goes in certified. ⁓ first person. Yeah. You know what you're playing. I think it goes here. I don't think it goes above action adventure. I think it goes there. I think it's third of the certified creep tier, in my opinion. might put a between them. Maybe, but between RPG and action think everybody else. No, because it's I mean that's kind of just like that like shooters could be its own thing, but there's also looter shooters on here. Yeah. Yeah. We can expand we'll expand the the categories. But first person shooter in my mind when I'm thinking of first person shooter I'm thinking of Call of Duty and Halo, obviously. Yeah. The biggest I mean Halo specifically. I can't argue with that. S tier for sure. Yeah. I played a whole lot of ⁓ what is it? Tom Clancy's was it Wildlands? Ghost Recon Wildlands. Yeah, I think that's a looter shooter though, isn't it? Is it? I don't know. Actually I don't really play it that much. The division is a looter shooter. The other Tom Clancy game. Yeah. Everyone thinks it's an S tier? Or creep certified creep? I think so. You ever play Resistance back in the day? I've played with you. I did. That game was that had yeah, that game had co-op. That had campaign co-op. That game was fun. That was like the place the f the second PlayStation Halo. Kill Zone was the first one. What about Rainbow Six? Rainbow Six, ⁓ I played Rainbow Six Vegas one and two a lot. I really like those. Rainbow Six Vegas is awesome. They're first person and third person, because when you're in cover, you're in third person. You can see your your guy with your custom camo. Rainbow Six of the tactical like squad ones, right? Yeah, yeah. It's like f well, in the in Vegas one and two, I think you might have three people, three person like groups that you're commanding and you're like, Tom, go here. It's like it's Tom Clancy, so it's like got that Splinter Cell kind of vibe to it, which stealth games on here. We didn't cover that. ⁓ Thank God. It's for next time. That'd be another fight. That'll do another fight. That would be a good one. Yeah, should have got should have picked that. Now we have solved on one. We got another solid D in our future. ⁓ yeah, we have no C's. We wanna no average We wanna cap it off here and we need can you think we need to rearrange this at all, push anything up or down? I mean it feels weird to not have any C tiers, but we have a D and an F. If it were me, personally, I would at least have a simulation at the top of B. I I would disagree. Well, can I use my bump for that? Technically we put it up before we made that rule. and it's not even a full letter bump. I'll get I'll yeah just a top of Give it to him. Throw throw Johnny a bone. All right. He needs it. I earned it. I know I are I argue with Keith a lot about fighting games. I think as a whole, they're fine. I think it makes sense then to be in this tier. ⁓ me personally I don't like ⁓ but ⁓ I think a lot of people were all there's gonna be plenty of people. But down just for the go back there. That's fine. Keith used this too. I mean, I I don't like it. I mean, I'm not I mean we're all agreed. You guys really know it's pretty good. We knew this was coming before the episode started. But now I mean we didn't get to stealth games, so ⁓ that's another one I probably would have bumped down despite Keith. I I've only played Metal Gear and Splinter Cell Splinter Cell Splinter Cell's not very good. I'd way rather play a sports game than a sport. Why don't we just keep going? Hey, let's go. We got another hour and let's do it. Sports is uncertified creep, obviously. Obviously me and Jay. and Jay agree. We'll fight for that one. Yeah, no, I I'd I still wouldn't put it in S tier. Let's go. Let's go another round on it. All right, good night. Goodbye. We hope you enjoyed our tier list. Hopefully you ⁓ Yeah. Hopefully you enjoyed us arguing about our tier list. ⁓ this is clearly the first pass on it. We've got we've got some few more entries on there we need to cover and I think we could break some of the boundaries further categories. Yeah, I'd love to argue with yes with next time. I don't know if it'll be as as passionate as it was this time. Maybe more. We got through the most controversial one was yeah. Was gone was fighting games, so we got to that one. So next time, maybe less yelling. We'll probably ⁓ we might not come back to this immediately next episode, next creep talk, but we'll do it the one after probably. So if you have suggestions the genres that you think we should include, please leave them down below. ⁓ you know, expand on on ones like, ⁓ we covered RPGs, but of course, like there's A RPGs Diablo. Like you got you can't just lump that in with like The Witcher and Fallout. ⁓ so yeah. Let us know what you think if you need to need to add more categories. did you make your own tier list, post it in our Discord, ⁓ put fighting games in S tier groups or certified certified groups. ⁓ Find a way to play Super Mario Kart. Yeah, find a way to play Super Mario Kart. Put fighting games in fart creeps, and you can ⁓ we'll send you a sticker. Yeah. Tell tell Keefe he's wrong. Free sticker. ⁓ Keefe will yell at you. Yep. ⁓ but I get to write the letters, so I'll write fighting games are the worst games, and Keefe agrees with me. And actually he was wrong the whole time and he thinks I'm the best. No, and everyone knows I would never say that. Congratulations, you swayed Keefe. Find a way to play ⁓ Super Mario Kart on Super Nintendo. ⁓ it is it on I think it's not Nintendo online. Okay, online like classic games. Yeah. Yeah, so check that out. ⁓ play on our systems, no safe states or rewind, whatever they on there. Yeah, yeah. What was the ⁓ track name again, Jay? Bowser's Castle Three. It'll just be Bowser's Castle at the end of I believe the Star Cup, which is Bowser's Castle Three Cup. Yeah. Basil's Castle 3 time trial. So yeah, check that out. Submit your time on the high score channel, high score challenge channel in our Discord. Join our Discord if you haven't before. Check out our Patreon. Check out all our other places. If you're probably listening to this on Spotify, Apple, or YouTube. But we also have Instagram, TikTok. Check those out. Give us a follow. Links below. Yeah, links below. Please like and subscribe and leave us reviews and all that stuff if you enjoyed this video. And other than that, I think ⁓ we'll see it as You're wrong. You should try harder. You're as wrong as Keith about fighting. Yeah. I thought you were reaching over to your mic to turn it on and say you're a liar. But like you didn't do like I you set yourself up for a joke that wasn't there. You it comes at special times. The liar button is not used lightly. All right. Bye bye. Bye. Play us out.