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Why the US Might Start Deep Sea Mining (And What It Means for the Ocean) · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  Have you ever wondered why the U.S.
• 0:02
  hasn't really been brought up in the
• 0:04
  conversation of deep sea mining?
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  That's because it's never really been a
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  topic, probably because they can't really
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  deep sea mined in international waters
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  because they are not part of the United
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  Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea,
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  which plays a big role in shaping,
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  you know, the deep sea
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  mining and the fact that the U.S.
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  is not part of it has played another deep
• 0:24
  role, a huge role in the country
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  and not being able to approach deep sea
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  mining both legally and politically.
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  So here is today we're on the podcast.
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  We're going to be
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  talking about why the U.S.
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  hasn't got into it and latest
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  thing of the metals company,
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  which is a Canadian company,
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  trying to work with the U.S.
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  and Donald Trump to actually start mining
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  within the deep sea,
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  within their natural borders, within the
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  United States exclusive economic zone.
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  We're going to be talking about that on
• 0:52
  today's episode of the How to Protect
• 0:55
  the Ocean podcast, a scary topic. The U.S. is not a signatory of the United
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  Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,
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  which is known as UNCLOSE.
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  I'm going to call it that
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  because it's easy to do.
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  I know it's jargon, but it has a domestic
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  laws, but also has
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  domestic laws governing deep sea
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  money. So the big question here, once it
• 2:03
  came out, people are freaking out.
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  Look, Donald Trump is president.
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  You never know what's going to happen.
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  He tends to like extractive processes.
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  Deep sea mining is an extractive process
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  that could be a little lucrative in terms
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  of the money it brings not only to the
• 2:17
  companies that work with the countries
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  that would like this to
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  happen, but also, you know,
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  the country itself, they want to make
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  money and they want to be able to use
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  their natural resources to make money.
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  So I can't blame them.
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  Then somebody like Donald Trump, who is
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  into making money and is not
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  having a great three months,
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  depending on how you look at it.
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  But the lately the stock market has
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  crashed from his
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  tariffs, his reciprocal tariffs,
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  you know, taxing islands that are not
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  inhabited, only inhabited by
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  seals and penguins and stuff.
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  And so it's not going great.
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  Now, this is not going to make him
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  popular for a lot of people,
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  which he doesn't care about.
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  But there are some really interesting
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  matters at hand of can the US actually
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  use, you know, the metals
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  company to be their exploratory
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  deep sea mining company?
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  And that's really what it comes down to.
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  There was a great article written by Dr.
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  Andrew Thaler, who's been on the podcast
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  a number of times to talk about deep sea
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  mining and the deep sea.
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  He's a deep sea ecologist.
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  It's involved in a lot of projects.
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  The last time we actually had him on, he
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  was talking about his foray
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  into D and D for forest ecology,
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  Dungeons and Dragons with no community
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  members for forest ecology.
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  So he talks a lot of a lot about things.
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  But his main focus right now is deep sea
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  mining and has been over the last his
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  whole career, really,
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  because he did his PhD in it.
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  And it's been the editor of the largest
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  deep sea mining magazine in the world.
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  And he just keeps writing on Southern
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  Fried Science dot com, which was his blog
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  that he started with a number of
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  different colleagues back in the day.
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  And it's just it's an amazing article.
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  I highly recommend that you take a look
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  at it because we're going to be talking
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  about it all day today on this episode
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  all day during this episode, which
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  doesn't take all day to record.
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  I trust you. Trust me.
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  But we're going to be talking about it.
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  And so go over to
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  Southern Fried Science dot com.
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  Check out the article.
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  I'll put the link in the show notes.
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  But he talks about relevant US
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  legislation that matters when we're
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  looking at deep sea mining in the US.
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  So it's really can this
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  company in particular do this?
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  They're probably the best place company
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  because they have so much money invested.
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  They have the technology.
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  They know the technology.
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  They've been working
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  with the ISA for a while.
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  Now, the reason why they're going to the
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  US is because the ISA has recently
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  changed secretary generals.
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  The secretary general now is
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  I'm trying to miss Leticia.
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  And if I can remember her
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  last name, I don't know.
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  I still have the article up here.
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  Sorry, Miss Leticia race de Cavallo, who
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  was who was basically elected, started
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  her secretary general
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  position on January 1st, 2025.
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  She is also an oceanographer.
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  She is the fourth
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  secretary general of the ISA.
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  And she was elected in August and it was
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  a bit of a surprise because the ISA
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  secretary general that that was there
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  before he was known to be a little bit
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  more biased towards the companies.
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  I don't know if that's true or not, but
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  some of his policies that came out, some
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  of his focuses have come out
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  that said, hey, you know what?
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  Like, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna mine.
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  Eventually, it's just a matter of doing
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  the regulations and figuring this out.
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  Well, a lot of other people are like,
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  let's pause, even killing many countries.
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  Let's just pause this and let's figure
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  out whether this is
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  going to be safe or not.
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  So the election spark or the election
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  came up because Miss
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  Leticia was like, you know what?
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  I think I can do a better job.
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  I can be more partial.
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  I'm an oceanographer.
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  I understand what's happening in the deep
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  sea of better understanding than most.
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  And so she gets elected all of a sudden.
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  Great for the environment.
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  At least we have somebody who has a
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  background in oceanography.
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  We've been asking for people in these
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  positions to have that type of background
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  and not just a business background.
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  So I say it was like we
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  need to hold off on the money.
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  We need to do more research and we need
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  to discuss this a little bit more.
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  TMC was like the Meadows Company.
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  The Canadian company was like, no, no, I
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  don't want to do that.
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  I want to I want to mine.
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  I'm sick of this.
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  And I know I'm not going to get the
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  answers that I need in
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  this like in this forum.
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  So I'm going to go to a democracy country
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  that has a new president who's very into
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  extractive processes.
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  And I'm going to go ahead and talk to
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  Donald Trump and say, hey, Donald.
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  Hey, Mr. President.
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  Let's how about we start extracting
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  polymetallic nodules off this off the sea
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  floor in jurisdiction like in a
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  jurisdiction for the U.S.
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  And so apparently, according to studies
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  or according to reports, the
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  administration surprise surprise is
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  interested in that kind of stuff.
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  And so we're going to discuss some of the
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  relevant legislation, U.S. legislation
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  that matters in this in this situation.
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  So the first thing I identified by Dr.
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  Andrew Taylor was the Deep Sea Hard
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  Mineral Resources Act, which regulates
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  exploit exploration,
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  exploitation of deep sea minerals.
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  The other one is the outer criminal
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  criminal outer
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  continental shelf Lands Act.
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  It extends U.S. laws to the seabed and
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  subsoil of the outer continental shelf.
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  And then there's the Jones Act, which is
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  also known as the Marine as the Merchant
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  Marine Act of 1920, which mandates the
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  cargo transporter between U.S.
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  points must be on vessels built owned and
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  operated by U.S. citizens.
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  So here is the thing for the compliance
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  to meet for the TMC
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  to meet the compliance.
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  It really comes down to the Jones Act,
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  the hidden gem, which is a vessel owned
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  by all seas, which is a
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  Dutch company works for TMC.
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  The MV Coco, which is owned by Magellan
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  based in Guernsey, which I believe is
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  foreign, I think it's in
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  France, they are not U.S. owned.
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  Neither vessel complies with the Jones
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  Act requirements, posing a significant
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  operational challenge for TMC.
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  So essentially what happens is for this
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  to be in compliance with the Jones Act,
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  the ship that's carrying the cargo from
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  point where they extract it.
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  So point A to point B back to
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  a U.S. port has to be American.
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  Right now, the TMC does not have an
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  American ship. Does that mean they can't
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  get an American ship?
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  I'm sure they can find it. I'm sure they
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  can figure it out. But at this point,
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  they may not be able to use that.
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  The other thing too is because the Outer
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  Continental Shelf Lands Act extends
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  jurisdiction to certain seabeds, certain
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  seabed areas potentially like outside of
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  the U.S. jurisdiction.
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  This classifies TMC's mining sites as
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  U.S. points once
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  operations are commenced.
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  So essentially the loophole of saying,
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  hey, you know what, even though this is
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  beyond your
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  jurisdiction, this is our land.
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  So going into like the Gulf of Mexico and
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  certain places in Mexico
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  are actually available.
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  Well, not so because it's still be
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  considered American jurisdiction
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  according to the Outer
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  Continental Shelf Lands Act.
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  So that means they still have to the
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  Jones Act still applies.
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  They still have to use
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  American vessels again.
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  Can they get American vessels?
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  I'm sure they can find
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  something they don't.
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  They're not. I don't know what their
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  contracts are like with
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  the other two vessels.
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  But, you know, I'm sure they can figure
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  it out if they really, really want to, if
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  they're motivated,
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  which seems like they are.
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  So it's it's pretty interesting.
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  The U.S. Mexico Western
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  Gap Treaty extended over U.S.
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  jurisdiction over a specific high seas
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  areas, indicating that U.S. can assert
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  jurisdiction over seabed resources,
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  resources beyond their jurisdiction in
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  the exclusive economic zone.
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  So that's something of interest.
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  And if the U.S. claims jurisdiction over
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  high seas resources, the Jones Act does
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  apply, as I mentioned before.
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  So to comply with the Jones Act, TMC
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  would have to use vessels that meet the
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  stringent requirements,
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  which the current fleet does not.
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  And this regulatory hurdle could
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  complicate TMC strategies to operate
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  under U.S. jurisdiction and may require
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  significant adjustments
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  to their operational plans.
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  And to be honest, if the U.S. gets the
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  idea of starting to, you know, mine for
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  these polymetallic nodules, what's in it
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  for them to say, hey, we're
• 10:13
  going to hire a Canadian company?
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  Look, let's be honest, they're not.
• 10:16
  Canada is not in favor
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  with the U.S. right now.
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  Also, they they want it for themselves.
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  There's nothing stopping them from
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  saying, hey, you know what?
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  We're actually just going to get a
• 10:24
  company ourselves or do it by government
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  and we'll figure it ourselves and we'll
• 10:27
  take the time and we'll get the relevant
• 10:30
  information, the relevant technology, the
• 10:33
  relevant ships and we'll do it our way.
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  You know, mind you, they
• 10:36
  could also change their laws.
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  So there's a bit of a bit of a scary
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  thing going on here is really what it
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  comes down to is like, is the U.S. really
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  going to take this seriously?
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  I haven't heard anything else in the news
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  since this has happened, but this was
• 10:49
  very worrisome a week ago
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  when this first came out.
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  And I'm glad Andrew
• 10:53
  started talking about it.
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  I'm also glad that Chris
• 10:55
  Corbero started talking about it.
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  She is on TikTok and she
• 10:59
  has a great post on it.
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  I'll link to it in the show notes on, you
• 11:03
  know, how you can act
• 11:04
  and what you can do.
• 11:05
  But I think it's it's super important to
• 11:07
  be able to talk about this and to be able
• 11:08
  to say, hey, you know what?
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  This is something that
• 11:11
  we need to talk about.
• 11:12
  This is something that we need to assess
• 11:14
  whether it is a threat or not.
• 11:17
  This is something that we can't just let
• 11:19
  it go by, you know, because there's been
• 11:21
  a lot of work that's
• 11:22
  been pushed onto the I.S.A.
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  in terms of non-government organizations,
• 11:26
  scientists, governments who have been
• 11:28
  put, who have been put a lot of research,
• 11:30
  a lot of money and a lot of time and to
• 11:31
  make sure that we do this properly.
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  And although some have been rushed into
• 11:36
  it and others have not, it seems to have
• 11:38
  been pretty much gone in a way that we,
• 11:41
  as Andrew says, we have this
• 11:42
  wonderful opportunity to do this right.
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  If we are going to extract minerals, we
• 11:48
  can do the studies to make sure that
• 11:49
  nothing happens or to do it in a way that
• 11:52
  we have the least amount of impact on it.
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  Am I for deep sea mining?
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  Absolutely not.
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  Do I think it's going
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  to happen in my lifetime?
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  Probably.
• 11:59
  Is it going to affect
• 12:00
  the the the EV community?
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  Because that's why people want a deep sea
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  minus for electric vehicles to have the
• 12:07
  metals to make the batteries, which are
• 12:09
  currently mined in many places.
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  But mostly in the Republic of Congo,
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  which there are a lot of human rights
• 12:16
  violations that are
• 12:17
  associated with that project.
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  And so being able to have it where human
• 12:21
  rights are not affected and be able to
• 12:23
  have it where you can just extract it as
• 12:24
  you please, that would be helpful if this
• 12:28
  extraction is going to happen.
• 12:29
  Now, with the the developments, the huge
• 12:32
  developments and advancements in the
• 12:34
  technology to create batteries where the
• 12:36
  metals are used for electric vehicles,
• 12:39
  some of them are using
• 12:40
  these metals anymore.
• 12:42
  And they're they're much more sustainable
• 12:44
  in the way we dispose of them and the way
• 12:48
  we use them, the way we build them.
• 12:49
  So the development is getting fast.
• 12:51
  The technology is
• 12:52
  increasing at a rapid rate.
• 12:54
  Do we need this in the long run?
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  Hopefully not.
• 12:56
  Is this going to happen in my lifetime?
• 12:58
  I do think so, but
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  I'm not happy about it.
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  But if we're going to
• 13:00
  do it, let's do it right.
• 13:01
  And let's make sure that we are on the
• 13:03
  proactive side instead of the reactive
• 13:05
  side, which we're usually on the end of
• 13:07
  the reactive side when we're extracting
• 13:10
  marine resources or any type of thing.
• 13:11
  So, you know, if you want to do it, you can do it and you can do it.
• 13:12
  But I do want to make sure that we're doing it. I mean, I think it's a pretty good idea to do it, but I really like how you build on it. So, you know, I'm going to do a little bit of a quick demo, which is a little bit of a quick demo because it's going to be a really nice video about how we're going to create these different types of resources around the sea
• 13:12
  or around nature in general.
• 13:14
  So this is what we're talking about today
• 13:17
  and I'd love to hear
• 13:17
  your opinion on that.
• 13:19
  Hit me up on Instagram at
• 13:20
  how to protect the ocean.
• 13:22
  I've got a different episode of the on
• 13:24
  YouTube if you want to
• 13:25
  check that out as well.
• 13:27
  There's not a lot of resources.
• 13:28
  I just said it in a different
• 13:29
  way because I'm doing it more.
• 13:30
  It's going to be a little shorter.
• 13:38
  But I want to create
• 13:39
  something different for the audio.
• 13:41
  Just a little bit more raw, a little bit
• 13:43
  more old school for me
• 13:44
  in terms of the way I do
• 13:45
  it.
• 13:46
  It kind of excites me a little bit.
• 13:48
  YouTube's great.
• 13:48
  I love doing the video, but it's going to
• 13:50
  be done a little differently.
• 13:51
  So we're going to do
• 13:52
  it in different ways.
• 13:53
  So you can listen to it on video or on
• 13:55
  your way to work through
• 13:57
  audio or on your dog walks
• 13:59
  or in your nature walks or however you
• 14:00
  want to do it
• 14:00
  exercising, however you want to
• 14:02
  do it.
• 14:02
  Just listen to me, please.
• 14:04
  I'm just kidding.
• 14:05
  I love that you listen to me and I love
• 14:06
  the feedback even more.
• 14:08
  So hit me up on Instagram at how to
• 14:10
  protect the ocean or hit me up on the
• 14:12
  website speakupforblue.com.
• 14:14
  That's speakupforblue.com.
• 14:17
  Check it out.
• 14:17
  There's you can leave me a voice memo.
• 14:19
  You can go to our contact page and you
• 14:21
  can just write me an email.
• 14:23
  I answer that personally.
• 14:24
  I'd love to hear your
• 14:25
  thoughts on all of this.
• 14:27
  So thank you so much for joining me on
• 14:28
  today's episode of the How
• 14:29
  to Protect the Ocean podcast.
• 14:30
  I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True
• 14:32
  North strong and free.
• 14:33
  Have a great day.
• 14:34
  We'll talk to you next
• 14:34
  time and happy conservation.