Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 7 September

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 7 September · The Bolt Report

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Bolt Report.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me on The Bolt Report. I'm James McPherson.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Here's what's coming up tonight. One Nation battles claims its
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: proposal to give mortgage holders access to their super would
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: destroy the economy, while its Victorian leader, Warren Pickering, is
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: accused of heavy illicit drug use and deviant sex by
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: his ex, claims he denies.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: More on that with my panel shortly.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Plus, Communications Minister Anika Wells faces yet another freebie scandal.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: after it was revealed the Sydney Swans, a client of
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: her husband's undisclosed lobby group, gifted her free AFL tickets.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: And we'll cross to Samara Gill in the UK, where
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: 60,000 Brits have been arrested for so-called communications offences over
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: the past five years. some of them being as trivial
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: as watching TikTok videos.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: We'll get to all of that shortly.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: But first, up to 500 children are now involved in
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: a legal action to overturn the Queensland government's ban on
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: kids accessing puberty blockers and hormone treatment for gender dysphoria.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: The government has applied the ban.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: To all new patients because they're concerned, rightly in my view,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: that it might not be in the best interests of
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: boys to ply them with drugs in a bid to
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: turn them into girls, or vice versa. What a nasty
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: government they have in Queensland, refusing to fund the provision
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: of drugs to kids before being absolutely sure it's safe.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Bigots. These kids, or should I say their.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Parents, not only want the ban overturned, they also want
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: an apology and they want $ 50, 000 each in compensation for
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: the discrimination they claim they have suffered. They claim discrimination
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: because the government will allow boys to be prescribed testosterone
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: if they're suffering a deficiency of testosterone, but they won't
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: allow girls to be prescribed testosterone.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Now, I wonder why that might be. Sexism.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Just because girls are female, is that any reason to
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: deny them a male hormone? Honestly, these parents also claim
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: their children are being discriminated against because of their age.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: How come adults can access drugs to transform their bodies,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: but not kids? How dare the Queensland government imply an
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: eight-year-old is less able to make informed medical decisions than
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: a 25-year-old? Next, they'll be suggesting kids shouldn't be allowed
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: to sign mortgages or operate forklifts. I should point out
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: these parents who claim their children have been born in
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: the wrong bodies and therefore need to be transitioned are
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: completely free to access the drugs through the private health system.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: But no, no, apparently they believe it's their human right
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: to have the drugs provided by the public system. You know,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: the one that you and I pay for. And presumably,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: by the way, the same public system they can sue
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: 30 years from now when these families belatedly realised Shakespeare
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: was wrong when he said, clothes maketh the man or
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: cross-sex hormones.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: It's neither. It's chromosomes. You can't change them.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: And if you think that's unfair, well, you'll need to
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: take it up with your science teacher or God, depending
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: on which one you have a better relationship with. Queensland
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: LGBTI Legal Service President Wren Scheich says the matter.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Needs to go to court.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Listen to the reasoning, because, and.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I quote, Except.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Like so much of this entire debate, what we find
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: is that the exact opposite is true. The government cutting
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: children off with the stroke of a pen from puberty
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: blockers and cross-sex hormones doesn't shake faith in the health system.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: To the contrary, it actually instills faith in the health system.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: It's because we do demand accountability from our public health
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: officials that their right to exercise extreme caution is when
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: approving drugs for kids. The legal action is absolute nonsense
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: and the Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal should be condemned
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: for even entertaining it. Imagine spending 34 years building a
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: career in education, being described by colleagues as an outstanding
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: and highly capable leader, only to have it end because
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: you didn't want to promote gay ideology to primary school kids. Well,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what happened to my next guest, Janelle Rowe.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Rowe was a primary school principal when she objected to
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: her school participating in the LGBTQIA plus awareness initiative, Wear
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: It Purple Day. Janelle Roe's argument was pretty simple. Children
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: aged 4 to 12 don't need teachers introducing them to
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: questions of sexuality and gender. Those are conversations parents should
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: have with their kids at a time they consider appropriate.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: So Janelle Roe told staff that her alternative was Wear
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: It Purple Day's less fashionable cousin bullying No Way Week.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: And she quickly discovered that there was no way the
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: education department was going to let her do that. Roe
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: says she was hauled into head office, placed under supervision
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: and subjected to workplace allegations. She was even told she
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: had to support the gay event and dress up for it,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: despite her conscientious objection. Now, I don't know about you,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: but at this point, it sounds to me like bullying
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: No Way Week might actually have been rather helpful at
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: this school.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Here's the awkward bit.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Documents obtained under freedom of information by Janelle Roe's lawyer
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: reportedly described her as outstanding, highly capable and the best
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: leader I've ever worked with in my 40-year career.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Yet somehow she became the problem.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Well, eventually Roe resigned in disgust and she joins me now. Janelle,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: thanks for coming on the program. Let's start with the
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Wear It Purple Day itself. What did you find objectionable
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: about that day?
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: Good evening, James. My objection was the content that the
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: teachers would have had to describe to the children. When
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: we as educators spend time discussing extrapolating days such as
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: Anzac Day or NAIDOC Day, we talk to the children
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: about what it's about.
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: We go into.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: Detail about the history and what the day is about.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: We provide activities. And that's how I saw that where
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: Purple Day was going to land. And I didn't want
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: my staff to have to talk about what each of
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: the letters meant. We're told in our codes of conduct
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: not to talk about the sexual nature or sexual intimacies
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: and so I was attempting to support my staff and
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: also protect children from the content.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: So instead of We're at Purple Day you suggested Bullying
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: No Way Week. Why did you think that was a
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: better alternative?
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: That's correct and it's actually the week before so I
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: wouldn't have been that challenging to accept Bullying No Way
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: Week and it's inclusive. Everyone is in a position where
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: they may be bullied. Unfortunately, it's quite rampant. And that
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: was a more inclusive focus, in my opinion.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: So what happened when the Education Department realised you weren't
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: going to go along with we're at Purple Day?
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: There was a phone call. There was a I need
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: to speak to you face to face. There was a
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: bring a support person if you want to, but come now.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: And then I was told a list of allegations and
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: topics that I had done wrong and that did I
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: realise that there was an issue, that half the staff
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: were going to quit, that she couldn't have a failing school,
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: that I needed to win the confidence back of the staff.
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: At this point, I really didn't know the list. of
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: things I had done and when I exercised my right
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: of reply and came back the following week with my
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: guesses about what they had said I'd done or said,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: my one and only question after reading my three pages
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: of reply, my one and only question from her was,
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: are you going to participate in Wear It Purple Day
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: and wear purple?
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: So they actually told you that you had to support
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: the event and even, as you.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Said, dress up for it.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Were you essentially being ordered to publicly endorse something that
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: you conscientiously objected to?
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Do you think other teachers and principals privately agree with
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: your stance but perhaps are too frightened of saying so
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: publicly for fear of going through what you've been through?
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: I would say that there's a pretty high chance that's true.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: Certainly after I explained to staff my reasoning, I had
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: one staff member come up and say, I completely agree
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: with you, but I would never say anything. And since then,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: I've talked to people and staff and teachers and they've said,
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: we don't want to talk about this stuff at schools.
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: It's not appropriate.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that would seem to be the message they've
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: sent through the example that you say they've made of you.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: This whole episode ended, as I said, a 34-year career
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: in education that I know you loved. Do you, in
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: your private moments, regret taking a stance on this issue?
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: I don't regret taking a stance because if I've helped
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: one parent to feel empowered to speak up or if
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: I've protected one child from hearing something that might cause
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: trauma or that just might give them, you know, difficulties
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: in future life, then that's great.
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm upset that I'm not working.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: I really want to see children flourish and learn to
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: read and write and, you know, financial literacy are really important.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: What does this whole episode tell parents about who actually
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: runs their local school?
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: Well, it depends.
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, if it's a public school that you're referring to,
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: then the systemic larger body run the school. I had
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: a go at making a difference in the school, but
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: it was shut down.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Well, Janelle Rowe, I appreciate you taking a stance and
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I know this story is generating a lot of interest
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: because I think there's a lot of parents out there
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: who feel very concerned about some of what is being
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: taught in our schools and would have appreciated your stance.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you joining me tonight.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Well, was it planning or just good fortune that One
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Nation had a superannuation policy to announce today, the same
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: day that drug and sex allegations against their newly installed
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Victorian leader were published? I suspect it was probably good fortune.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: The party's Victorian leader has been accused by his ex
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: of having been a heavy illicit drug user and of
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: engaging in what she called deviant sex. Now, these allegations
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: date back a decade or more ago before Warren Pickering
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: was admitted into the Australian military, let alone before he
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: took on a role with One Nation. And importantly, he
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: rejects all of the allegations. Nevertheless, One Nation's political opponents
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: thought Christmas had come early.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Here's Angus Taylor.
• 11:45
  Speaker 7: There are serious questions for One Nation to answer on this.
• 11:50
  Speaker 7: When did they receive the correspondence from the former partner
• 11:55
  Speaker 7: of the leader of One Nation? How did they.
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: Respond to it?
• 12:00
  Speaker 7: And we call on them to publish that correspondence. I
• 12:04
  Speaker 7: think Australians deserve to see, Victorians deserve to see.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: And here's Victorian Labor Minister for Public Transport, Vicki Ward, who,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: it must be said, seemed far more comfortable talking about
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: decade-old allegations about the private life of a political opponent than, oh,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know, secret taxes imposed on Victorian commuters.
• 12:24
  Speaker 6: They're serious allegations that one nation will need to address.
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: as will need to the Liberal Party, the National Party,
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: and their moves around any coalition with One Nation. I
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: absolutely believe that these are serious allegations that we need
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: to understand more about.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm with her.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: If you're a Victorian Labor politician, you'd rather be taking potshots...
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: than talking potholes. One Nation MP Barnaby Joyce took a
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: more redemptive view of his Victorian colleague when asked if
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Pickering was fit to lead the party in Victoria. Now,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Barnaby Joyce didn't quote Oscar Wilde, but he might as
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: well have. The Victorian wit famously said, every saint has
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: a past and every sinner has a future, something council
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: culture seems to have forgotten.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: But Barnaby hasn't.
• 13:08
  Speaker 8: He was fit to join the Australian Army, wasn't he?
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And therefore.
• 13:13
  Speaker 8: As I said, I believe in redemption and I think
• 13:17
  Speaker 8: we've got it. Otherwise, it's like saying to people, if
• 13:21
  Speaker 8: you made a mistake, the mistake is always with you.
• 13:23
  Speaker 8: You'll never get better and that's you. You go, no,
• 13:25
  Speaker 8: if you make a mistake and this is a couple
• 13:28
  Speaker 8: of decades ago and you turn your life around, well,
• 13:32
  Speaker 8: that's precisely what you're supposed to do.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Joining me now is the political panel, former Liberal Senator
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Holly Hughes, who's now with One Nation, and former Labor
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Minister Stephen Conroy. Welcome to you both. Holly, I'll start
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: with you. Are there questions here for One Nation to answer?
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: Look, at this stage, there are allegations.
• 13:50
  Speaker 9: I don't know Warren Pickering.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: I do know that he served in our National Defence
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Force and has been through vetting in that service.
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: And this is an ex-partner.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: It wouldn't be the first time an ex-partner has made
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: some pretty outlandish allegations but obviously political opponents are going
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: to jump on whatever they can because they have nothing
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: of substance to talk about themselves so I think there'll
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: be no doubt a little bit of a pile on
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: but as Barnaby said if for anyone who's never sinned
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: in the past off you go but I think a
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: few people might want to look in their own cupboards first.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Stephen, the contested allegations concern private behaviour from more than
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: a decade ago. Is that an appropriate test for deciding
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: whether someone is fit to lead today?
• 14:39
  Speaker 10: Well, I think the simplest question for Mr Perkins to
• 14:42
  Speaker 10: answer is, is it his handwriting on those notes? And
• 14:46
  Speaker 10: after that, if it is, then, you know, redemption. I
• 14:51
  Speaker 10: think Barnaby makes a reasonable point. But he shall come clean.
• 14:57
  Speaker 10: if that's the case. So I think, you know, there's
• 15:02
  Speaker 10: a lot of noise about this, but just tell the truth.
• 15:05
  Speaker 10: Is it your handwriting? And then you can move on.
• 15:08
  Speaker 10: But by refusing to answer, refusing to turn up at
• 15:11
  Speaker 10: a press conference, you know, he's the leader of a
• 15:14
  Speaker 10: political party that says they're going to win the Victorian election.
• 15:18
  Speaker 10: So I think some honesty and transparency, and I think
• 15:21
  Speaker 10: the people will then judge him after that. But as
• 15:24
  Speaker 10: we always say in politics, the cover-up is usually worse
• 15:26
  Speaker 10: than the crime. So just fess up if it's your
• 15:29
  Speaker 10: handwriting on those notes.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Well, Holly, I suppose what this story does do is
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: it focuses attention back on what's always been perceived as
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: a One Nation weakness, and that's the screening of candidates.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Look, screening of candidates is really hard and Stephen would know.
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry, Stephen, for having a chuckle, but love you.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: But talking about Victoria with honesty and transparency is like, seriously?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: What have we just, you know, the poor Victorians just
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: lived through under dictator Dan and Jacinta Allen.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: But, you know, being upfront, being honest, I think is important.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: One Nation has a vetting process for even its local
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: branch members, which is more than other... Political parties do.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: Stephen and I have both got a long history in politics.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: We both know that every party has had its issues
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: in the past. But the fact that this guy went
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: through vetting for the Defence Force, I don't think it
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: suggests that we're looking at some issue or failure of
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: vetting here.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Just one more question on this topic before we move on. Stephen,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: just more broadly, is it ultimately in the interest of
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: a politician to destroy their opponent over past mistakes or...
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Is it more important, wherever possible, to champion the idea
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: of redemption?
• 16:48
  Speaker 10: Well, I think that there's a long history of all
• 16:51
  Speaker 10: sides in politics attacking the weaknesses of both the individuals
• 16:58
  Speaker 10: putting themselves forward as well as wanting to debate policy.
• 17:02
  Speaker 10: So those things are very intertwined. But I absolutely 100%
• 17:06
  Speaker 10: agree with Holly. Great to see you again, Holly.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: You too.
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: But.
• 17:12
  Speaker 10: The vetting process is vexed. Every political party over the
• 17:15
  Speaker 10: last 20 years has had a few that have snuck
• 17:17
  Speaker 10: through the cracks and you get embarrassed about. Mr Pickering
• 17:21
  Speaker 10: is running as leader in a state election. So as
• 17:25
  Speaker 10: I said, just be honest. Say whether it is or
• 17:29
  Speaker 10: isn't your handwriting and then after that, pretty much I
• 17:31
  Speaker 10: don't think there'll be much more. So, yeah, just tell
• 17:38
  Speaker 10: the truth and move on.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Alright, like I said earlier, One Nation fortuitously had a
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: headline policy they could release today that took some of
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: the heat off their Victorian leader. The party announced a
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: plan that would allow renters and mortgage holders to receive
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: a quarter of their future compulsory superannuation contributions as take-home
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: pay for a period of up to three years.
• 18:01
  Speaker 11: They feel that they want to access that and get
• 18:03
  Speaker 11: one quarter of their superannuation they're putting, you know, putting
• 18:07
  Speaker 11: away each week. Like I said, $ 44 can mean that
• 18:11
  Speaker 11: people can pay their bills, their electricity, put food on
• 18:14
  Speaker 11: the table or get medical attention. So that means a
• 18:17
  Speaker 11: lot to a.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Lot of people.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Now, Jim Chalmers could have explained why this was a
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: bad idea, but instead he went with this.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: It is now beyond any doubt that any coalition with
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: One Nation in it will cut super.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: It's also now beyond doubt that you have to fact
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: check everything this Labor government says. One Nation is not
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: cutting anyone's super. They're allowing people to access their super early.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Having access to your own money is not a cut.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: If people choose to take a bit of their super now,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: it does mean they'll have a little less in their
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: account for retirement. But that's a choice One Nation believe
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: people should be empowered to make about their own money.
• 18:59
  Speaker 11: If it comes to a point of someone being out
• 19:01
  Speaker 11: in the streets... in living in a tent or can't
• 19:05
  Speaker 11: or on the cusp of losing their home, I would
• 19:08
  Speaker 11: rather see them get that help and assistance that they
• 19:11
  Speaker 11: need now, not later in life.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Now, with Jim Chalmers busy being the boogeyman, it fell
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: to actual economists to warn that One Nation's plan could
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: add to inflation and therefore make things even worse. Pauline
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Hanson denies her plan would do that.
• 19:27
  Speaker 12: It's neutral. It's neutral.
• 19:29
  Speaker 11: So you're not going to pump up inflation with it
• 19:31
  Speaker 11: at all. So, yes, it will affect. Seven million people
• 19:35
  Speaker 11: will be open to taking the super out. So it
• 19:39
  Speaker 11: won't be inflationary.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Holly, I'll start with you.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Pauline says the policy is inflation neutral because it's not
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: new money. But if money that currently sits in super
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: is instead spent on groceries or electricity or other goods,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: why wouldn't that put increased demand on goods and services
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: and upward pressure on prices?
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Because if anyone's deluded enough to think $ 44 a week
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: to go towards your rent or your mortgage or to
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: keep the lights on is inflationary. Let me tell you
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: where inflation is coming from. It's from government spending. People
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: out there in the suburbs and the regions are just
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: trying to survive. Their standard of living has dropped significantly
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: over the past five years. People are so angry because
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: of how tough they're finding it at the moment. And
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: it's because this government is addicted to spending. If we
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: want inflation to come down, we need to see these
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: government programs in large stop. We need to see productivity
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: go up.
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: The fact that this Jim Chalmers, who.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: You know, is clearly not an economist, he clearly napped
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: during anything that had to do with the economy, supply, demand, inflation, productivity.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: You know, they are the problem, not mums and dads
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: who are struggling to put food on the table or
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: keep a roof over their head.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Stephen, far be it from me to feed you your lines,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: but can Holly on the one hand say $ 44, it's
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: such a tiny amount, it's not going to affect inflation, oh,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: but it's going to help with cost of living. I
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: don't know how you can make those two arguments.
• 21:10
  Speaker 10: I've been taking Pauline's number of $ 7 million, accessing it.
• 21:16
  Speaker 10: I mean, look, I burst out laughing when I first
• 21:19
  Speaker 10: heard it. She is offering to let average Australians subsidise
• 21:24
  Speaker 10: their own wages. I think she just spent too long
• 21:27
  Speaker 10: on the Riviera with Gina. I mean, seriously, how about
• 21:30
  Speaker 10: you get companies to pay people a bit more, support
• 21:33
  Speaker 10: a pay rise, Pauline? But on the economics.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: David, I run a small business. I can't afford another
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: pay rise.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I can't afford it.
• 21:42
  Speaker 10: Economists from Warren Hogan, who'd probably be considered to be
• 21:45
  Speaker 10: on the right of economics, Chris Richardson maybe in the centre,
• 21:48
  Speaker 10: Steve Kukula's the kook, probably on the left. All said
• 21:53
  Speaker 10: the same thing. It's inflationary. It's not a bump. It's
• 21:56
  Speaker 10: not a negligible.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: It's inflationary.
• 21:58
  Speaker 10: And just to give you a real world example, and
• 22:01
  Speaker 10: I'm borrowing from Shane Wright, a great article in today's.
• 22:05
  Speaker 9: Age.
• 22:05
  Speaker 10: We actually recently had an experiment allowing just this. The
• 22:10
  Speaker 10: Morrison government in COVID allowed Australians to access their superannuations.
• 22:16
  Speaker 10: And it turned out to be the second biggest stimulus
• 22:21
  Speaker 10: spending package in the whole of COVID. So what it
• 22:27
  Speaker 10: led to was this inflation surge that we're still struggling
• 22:30
  Speaker 10: to get on top of today, fuelled by letting everybody
• 22:34
  Speaker 10: have their superannuation access.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And people lied. They literally lied on the forms.
• 22:40
  Speaker 13: This is just factual.
• 22:42
  Speaker 10: And it gets better because the third biggest spending increase
• 22:46
  Speaker 10: from this access was actually on gambling. So let's not
• 22:50
  Speaker 10: pretend this is some measure that will absolutely be spent
• 22:55
  Speaker 10: on the sort of things Holly and Pauline were talking about.
• 22:57
  Speaker 10: This is what people, real people, really did with their
• 23:01
  Speaker 10: real money that got out of super. So we've just
• 23:04
  Speaker 10: had this experiment and it was inflationary, not to mention
• 23:08
  Speaker 10: if they decide to, you know, increase their bidding on houses,
• 23:12
  Speaker 10: it drives up the price of houses. And By definition,
• 23:15
  Speaker 10: if you put all that spending into the economy, Michelle
• 23:18
  Speaker 10: Bullock will again put up half a percent interest rate,
• 23:22
  Speaker 10: which will completely negate the policy itself. This is economic lunacy.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: And I couldn't get away from, you're asking.
• 23:30
  Speaker 10: Workers to subsidise their own pay rise.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
• 23:35
  Speaker 10: It's just, I literally laughed out loud.
• 23:37
  Speaker 14: Stephen, that's why Australians are flocking to One Nation, because
• 23:42
  Speaker 14: you're fundamentally laughing at them and their struggles in their
• 23:45
  Speaker 14: daily and family budget.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I'm laughing at Pauline's policy.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Stephen, you know I love you. Come and visit me
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: at the pub. Come and have a yarn to some
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: of my locals and the families. and how they are
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: struggling to pay everyday.
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: Bills and groceries.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, when people, their discretionary spend is gone.
• 24:04
  Speaker 13: They don't have this money.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: You're always going to get the odd group that go
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: and waste it. These are the same people when they
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: get their superannuation payout.
• 24:14
  Speaker 13: Are going to blow it up.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: COVID was unprecedented times, but there were plenty of people
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: that accessed their super that actually meant they could survive
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: through that lockout period as well. It wasn't all just
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: people spending it on gambling, but this is why the
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Australian people are angry. This is why the Australian electorate
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: is more engaged than I've certainly ever seen it because
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: their standard of living continues to decline and the inflation
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: is caused by government spending.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I think there's no doubt about that.
• 24:41
  Speaker 10: They'll be filthy on Pauline for getting interest rates put
• 24:44
  Speaker 10: up by half a percent because of this policy. They'll
• 24:47
  Speaker 10: be filthy on Pauline.
• 24:48
  Speaker 13: Well, that's all right.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: They can all go hang out in Fiji at COP
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: with Chris Bowen because no.
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: One else is going.
• 24:52
  Speaker 10: Or on the Riviera with Gina.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's people funding it themselves, not the taxpayer.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Hey, if I've got a choice between hanging out with
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Chris Bowen or with Gina Reinhardt.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's easy... you know what I'm choosing.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Quickly, before we go to a break, Gillian Siegel's three-year
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: term as the anti-Semitism envoy is about to come to
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: an end. Many in the Jewish community are calling on
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Labor to extend the role for at least one more
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: three-year term.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Holly, is that a good idea?
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: Look, I think so.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: I don't think we've watered off the scourge of anti-Semitism
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: that is running right through this country at the moment.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: And I think having someone like Gillian Siegel work within
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: different sectors and industries to see how the problem can
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: be dealt with, and obviously this Royal Commission... without even
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: calling the Prime Minister, without calling the hate preachers. The
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Prime Minister never wanted the Royal Commission. It's not going
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: to be a thorough Royal Commission. It's not going to
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: achieve what it should have done by his inability to
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: let it fully run its course. So then the next
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: best thing will be extending the contract of Gillian Siegel.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Stephen, if we do as Holly says, and many people
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: would agree with Holly, we extend the anti-Semitism envoys role.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Here's my question.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Do we therefore have to extend the Islamophobia envoys role
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: as well?
• 26:14
  Speaker 10: Well, firstly, can I agree with Holly completely? I think
• 26:17
  Speaker 10: the Royal Commission, despite the derogatory way that Holly described it,
• 26:23
  Speaker 10: has produced compelling evidence that that anti-Semitism is rife in
• 26:29
  Speaker 10: a way that I think shocks most Australians. So I
• 26:33
  Speaker 10: think that, yes, it's important. I would also be more
• 26:37
  Speaker 10: than happy to see the extension on the other side
• 26:40
  Speaker 10: of this debate. There are still too many examples, nothing
• 26:44
  Speaker 10: of the scale that we've seen exposed in the Royal Commission,
• 26:48
  Speaker 10: but there are too many examples of Muslims being abused
• 26:53
  Speaker 10: in the streets and harassed in just going about their
• 26:57
  Speaker 10: normal everyday lives. So I'm comfortable with both, but I
• 27:01
  Speaker 10: repeat that I think it's important that the Jewish envoy
• 27:07
  Speaker 10: continues to expose the rampant, rampant, anti-Semitism that has been unleashed.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Can I just ask one quick question? We've got to
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: go to a break, but I'm curious, Stephen. We've got
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: an envoy for anti-Semitism, so therefore we have an envoy
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: for Islamophobia, and you acknowledge we've got a much bigger
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: problem with anti-Semitism.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: There is some instances of Islamophobia. Switch it around.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: If there were no envoy for anti-Semitism, would we need
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: an envoy for Islamophobia?
• 27:41
  Speaker 10: Well, I think people wanted to make the point that
• 27:44
  Speaker 10: there are, again, nothing of the scale. I mean, we
• 27:48
  Speaker 10: have state actors paying criminals to blow up mosques. Like,
• 27:53
  Speaker 10: this is a scale of, you know, unfathomable evil.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Sorry, you mean to blow up synagogues? Blow up synagogues.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: My apologies.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: See, that's my point. There's an obvious need for an
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: envoy to anti-Semitism. I'm just not sure... there's the need
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: for an envoy to Islamophobia, apart from the fact that
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: we have one for anti-Semitism. Therefore, we've got to play
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: this balancing game. I'd love to continue this conversation, but
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I've got to go to a break. Thank you to
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: you both.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Always an absolute delight to talk with you. Stick around.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Coming up after the break, new technology means that when
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: you go to get a blood test, you don't necessarily
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: have to use a nurse. You can use a robot.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: And Anika Wells in trouble for her love of freebies.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: All of that coming up in a moment. Well, Communications
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Minister Annika Wells is under fire over her love of
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: a good freebie. Again, you remember that back in 2023,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: she accepted two VIP suite tickets to a Lions versus
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Swans AFL match, one for her and one for her husband.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: What wasn't disclosed at the time was that her husband,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Finn McCarthy, was a senior consultant at lobbying firm SEC
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Newgate and which lists the Sydney Swans as a client
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: and had donated to Anika Wells' election campaign. Joining me
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: now is the panel, news24. com. au afternoon editor James Bolt and
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: News24 host Danika DiGiorgio.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Welcome to you both. James, I'll start with you.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: If Anika Wells was a Coalition MP, how hard would
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Labor be going after her?
• 29:33
  Speaker 15: Very hard. But, like, to be honest, like, I don't
• 29:35
  Speaker 15: think she's done anything wrong here because of the way
• 29:37
  Speaker 15: the code of conduct is set up. I think she's
• 29:39
  Speaker 15: acted perfectly fine. The problem is that it's just the
• 29:42
  Speaker 15: perception of it, because we have this minister who's probably
• 29:45
  Speaker 15: been to more AFL matches than Scott Pendlebury at this point.
• 29:47
  Speaker 15: LAUGHTER And you've got a whole lot of people out
• 29:49
  Speaker 15: there that are really struggling to pay their energy bills,
• 29:51
  Speaker 15: really struggling to get by. They want their leaders, they
• 29:54
  Speaker 15: want their representatives to have some idea of what they're
• 29:56
  Speaker 15: going through. And every time they read a paper, they're
• 29:59
  Speaker 15: off to some other conference, they're off to some other
• 30:01
  Speaker 15: AFL match, they're off to some other gig, you start
• 30:04
  Speaker 15: to think, these people don't see what I see, these
• 30:05
  Speaker 15: people can't feel what I feel. How can they possibly
• 30:08
  Speaker 15: empathise with me? I'm sick of a lot of them.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very good point, which brings me to this, Danica,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: because I kind of wonder... Is the issue breaking the rules,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: and it seems like technically she may not have, or
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: is the real issue.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: One of judgment and one of entitlement?
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: It's judgment and entitlement, because James is right.
• 30:26
  Speaker 16: Maybe she hasn't technically broken the rules here, but the
• 30:29
  Speaker 16: reality is.
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: It's just not a good look again.
• 30:32
  Speaker 16: And I was actually thinking it was only a week
• 30:33
  Speaker 16: ago the three of us sat here talking about her
• 30:35
  Speaker 16: with her ooshies and thinking, oh, I remember the simpler
• 30:37
  Speaker 16: days for Annika Wells back when she had the expenses scandal.
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: And here we are a week later.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: You thought, let me help you out with that. Let
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: me help you out.
• 30:45
  Speaker 16: Yeah, we thought, you know what, News 24 went, aha,
• 30:47
  Speaker 16: I know exactly what we can do with that. But
• 30:50
  Speaker 16: it just looks so bad, again, in the middle of
• 30:52
  Speaker 16: a cost-of-living crisis. And I think, as Aussies, we're a
• 30:56
  Speaker 16: pretty tolerant bunch, but this just goes beyond now the
• 30:59
  Speaker 16: pub test because she is looking incompetent and every time
• 31:02
  Speaker 16: you think of overspending or entitlements, you think automatically to
• 31:06
  Speaker 16: Annika Wells.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: So it's just another dud minister, really, in the Cabinet.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: In one word, James, what was more offensive, the Ooshies
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: or the free AFL tickets?
• 31:14
  Speaker 15: Well, Ooshies, because, like, free AFL tickets, you know, when
• 31:17
  Speaker 15: you say to Ooshies, like, the housing market is so
• 31:20
  Speaker 15: hard to explain, so let me find these plush toys
• 31:22
  Speaker 15: to explain it to you. You're treating me like an idiot,
• 31:25
  Speaker 15: and I don't like that.
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: Very good.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Alright, the Albanese government is set to release a draft
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: of its digital duty of care legislation which would force
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: social media companies to offer users the option to turn
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: off their algorithm. James, the Coalition are worried this is
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: a government trying to control what we see.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Is that a fair complaint?
• 31:45
  Speaker 15: Always a fair complaint. Like, I'm very sceptical whenever the
• 31:48
  Speaker 15: government wants to start meddling in areas such as the internet, which, one,
• 31:52
  Speaker 15: they don't quite understand. They don't know how algorithms work,
• 31:54
  Speaker 15: so why should we give them power to decide over
• 31:56
  Speaker 15: what an algorithm is? That's one concerning thing. And the
• 31:59
  Speaker 15: second thing, like, when you say to the... You go, OK,
• 32:01
  Speaker 15: there's too much misinformation there. We, the government, we're going
• 32:04
  Speaker 15: to tell you what's misinformation and what's harmful content. That's
• 32:08
  Speaker 15: when I get very libertarian, very sceptic of it all,
• 32:10
  Speaker 15: because they're the exact kind of people that get affected
• 32:12
  Speaker 15: by what misinformation could be spread.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: So, of.
• 32:16
  Speaker 15: Course, they'd be probably a bit more aggressive on what
• 32:18
  Speaker 15: misinformation would be termed as.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I don't like it.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Well, so, the government, Danica, say, this isn't about us
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: trying to restrict speech, not at all. And then government
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: MP Andrew Lee goes.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: And says this.
• 32:33
  Speaker 17: We've seen a significant divergence in attitudes of young men
• 32:37
  Speaker 17: and young women on gender issues, for example, with young
• 32:40
  Speaker 17: men now having more conservative gender attitudes than my generation
• 32:44
  Speaker 17: of Gen X. That is partly because young men and
• 32:47
  Speaker 17: young women are now consuming very different social media compared
• 32:51
  Speaker 17: to the days when we grew up, when people were
• 32:53
  Speaker 17: watching the same TV, reading the same newspapers.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, we can't have young men having conservative views, Danika.
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: Oh, no, that would be too far right.
• 33:02
  Speaker 16: Anyone with a conservative view, according to the left now,
• 33:04
  Speaker 16: must be absolutely far right and fanatical. Look, let's look
• 33:07
  Speaker 16: at the history of Labor when it comes to censoring
• 33:09
  Speaker 16: the internet. Of course, it started with the alleged terror
• 33:12
  Speaker 16: attack on a bishop here in Sydney. The net nanny,
• 33:15
  Speaker 16: Julie Inman Grant, said, oh, no, we can't be circulating
• 33:17
  Speaker 16: the vision online. You know, it's going to be doing
• 33:19
  Speaker 16: damage and harms to young people. So suddenly that gets
• 33:22
  Speaker 16: taken away. Then next minute we see the under-16 social
• 33:26
  Speaker 16: media ban come into fruition. And now the next step,
• 33:29
  Speaker 16: and we knew that there was always going to be
• 33:31
  Speaker 16: a next step, is, oh, well, let's look at your algorithms.
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: And it's now under the guise.
• 33:35
  Speaker 16: This digital safety bill, under the guise of, well, we've
• 33:37
  Speaker 16: got to protect from toxic masculinity and the manosphere. So
• 33:41
  Speaker 16: it's always one excuse. after another with Labor.
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: But I do hold genuine concerns about this as.
• 33:46
  Speaker 16: Well, I've got to say, because with the way that
• 33:48
  Speaker 16: algorithms work, it does know what you like. So if
• 33:51
  Speaker 16: you go on your Instagram and it comes up on
• 33:53
  Speaker 16: your pages, OK, if you're looking at cooking videos, James, well,
• 33:56
  Speaker 16: then all of a sudden you're going to be starting
• 33:57
  Speaker 16: to see a lot of cooking videos. What happens if
• 34:00
  Speaker 16: the government is in control of what you can and
• 34:02
  Speaker 16: what you cannot see? But of course, it's under the
• 34:04
  Speaker 16: guise of protecting you from social media harms.
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: What are harms? It's a very broad term.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: It's a very broad term.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I can assure you, however, cooking videos do not feature
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: prominently on my Instagram feed.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: All right, before we go to a break, question, how
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: do you go when you get a blood test?
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Do you actually look at the needle going in or
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: do you do what I do and I look away?
• 34:23
  Speaker 15: I look away and I actually needed my blood out
• 34:26
  Speaker 15: over the weekend and I was walking up to the
• 34:29
  Speaker 15: door where Dr Wilt was and I hear a voice
• 34:32
  Speaker 15: behind me just go, are you looking to get in?
• 34:36
  Speaker 15: And she leads me in. And within 30 seconds later,
• 34:38
  Speaker 15: she's pulling out my blood. I didn't ask for a lanyard.
• 34:41
  Speaker 15: I didn't ask for any doctor. I didn't even see
• 34:43
  Speaker 15: if her photo.
• 34:43
  Speaker 6: Was on a wall.
• 34:44
  Speaker 15: Like, that is how trusting I am. You just need
• 34:46
  Speaker 15: to know where a door is and I will let
• 34:48
  Speaker 15: you inject me.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Great. Let's see how trusting you are.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: The Food and Drug Administration in the US has given
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: approval for a robot that can locate your vein, collect
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: your blood and then apply the bandage.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: This is the first of its kind.
• 35:00
  Speaker 10: Have a look.
• 35:01
  Speaker 12: The patient inserts a cartridge with labeled blood collection tubes
• 35:05
  Speaker 12: and confirms their identity on the interface for patient identification.
• 35:10
  Speaker 12: The patient starts the procedure. A green light indicator guides
• 35:14
  Speaker 12: the patient for correct arm placement. The needle is not
• 35:18
  Speaker 12: visible for the patient, helping them feel calm and confident.
• 35:22
  Speaker 12: The patient cannot see or feel the tubes filling and
• 35:24
  Speaker 12: being changed. Once complete, a letter removes the needle and
• 35:28
  Speaker 12: applies a bandage.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Alright, Danika, robot or nurse? Who are you going with? Nurse, nurse.
• 35:34
  Speaker 16: I actually watch the needle go in and I cannot
• 35:37
  Speaker 16: look away. I need to see it at all times.
• 35:38
  Speaker 16: I hate the art of suspense. I wouldn't trust a
• 35:40
  Speaker 16: robot because we don't know if they're going to be
• 35:43
  Speaker 16: safe or not. And that's the reality.
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: Putting an injection to somebody's arm is a delicate process.
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: I know people who have.
• 35:49
  Speaker 16: Had iron infusions and it's leaked and now they're left
• 35:51
  Speaker 16: with permanent stains down their arm.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Stop, because next time I need to get a blood test,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I'll be too afraid to go.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: We've run out of time. Thank you to you both.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. We're going to go to a break.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Stick around when we come back.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I want to talk to Greg Sheridan about whether Australian
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: politicians have grossly underestimated Xi Jinping because they assume he's
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: just like us.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: That's coming up after this.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Well, big news overnight in Germany, where the Alternative for
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Germany party, which supports Russia, has just won big in
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: a state election. The party, derided by many as far right,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: won 44.5% of the vote, with its nearest rival picking
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: up just 18.5%. Even so, the AFD, as they're called,
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: fell three seats short of the 42 required for majority
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: government votes. in the state of Saxony-Anhalt, which means they
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: may not be able to govern at all because every
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: other party has ruled out working with them. Joining me
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: now is foreign affairs writer and editor of The Australian,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: or foreign editor of The Australian, Greg Sheridan. Greg, how
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: do you assess the AFD?
• 36:56
  Speaker 9: Well, James, great to be with you. There is one
• 36:59
  Speaker 9: other party that said that it will work with them,
• 37:01
  Speaker 9: so they might just fall across the line.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: But I think the big.
• 37:04
  Speaker 9: Lesson of this is how stupid and counterproductive it is
• 37:07
  Speaker 9: to demonise and isolate these populist parties. AFD has some
• 37:11
  Speaker 9: objectionable things like its sympathy for Russia, but its big
• 37:15
  Speaker 9: issue is immigration. The mainstream parties have failed at immigration
• 37:18
  Speaker 9: and they've tried to demonise and isolate AFD, a lot
• 37:22
  Speaker 9: like is happening in Australia with One Nation. But the
• 37:25
  Speaker 9: more you do that, you just make them stronger and
• 37:28
  Speaker 9: you also deprive them of the experience of government, which
• 37:31
  Speaker 9: would moderate them.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you also deny 44.5% of the population who
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: all said we like most of what they're talking about.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Speaking of things that we need to discuss, the Chinese
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Communist Party. They were throwing their weight around at the
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Pacific Islands Forum Summit last week, but Greg, you wrote
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: a great column in The Australian at the weekend pointing
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: out that Xi Jinping has just purged two of his
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: most senior generals. Tell me why that purge is something
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Australians should be paying attention to.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: James, I can't.
• 38:06
  Speaker 9: Believe this story got so little attention. Not my story,
• 38:08
  Speaker 9: but the story about the generals. One of the generals
• 38:11
  Speaker 9: he purged was a Politburo member and was indeed the
• 38:14
  Speaker 9: senior most Chinese in uniform. Now, these constant purges, the
• 38:19
  Speaker 9: refusal to have any succession plan, this suggests a one-man
• 38:23
  Speaker 9: dictatorship which is quite brittle and quite febrile internally, despite
• 38:28
  Speaker 9: the sense of calm that Xi Jinping tries to radiate.
• 38:32
  Speaker 9: He's only allowed 30 foreign correspondents to stay in the country,
• 38:36
  Speaker 9: or a little over 30. This is quite a brittle,
• 38:39
  Speaker 9: dangerous dictatorship. Not only that, Xi Jinping proclaims himself a
• 38:45
  Speaker 9: true believing communist ideologue and frequently praises Stalin and Mao.
• 38:53
  Speaker 9: And that's the way they ran the Communist Party, by
• 38:55
  Speaker 9: constant purges. And he also always tells his troops to
• 38:59
  Speaker 9: prepare for war. So when a dictator tells you what
• 39:03
  Speaker 9: he thinks and what he's going to do, we should
• 39:05
  Speaker 9: take it seriously. Nobody talks about the communist culture which
• 39:09
  Speaker 9: governs China. But Xi is a communist. The Communist Party
• 39:14
  Speaker 9: reigns and it has a living, breathing culture, which is
• 39:17
  Speaker 9: very obnoxious.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: So, Greg, what would Xi Jinping's total commitment to communism
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: suggest about the way he views the rest of the
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: world and particularly we in the West?
• 39:28
  Speaker 9: Well, like the Soviet Union, of old, he wants to
• 39:31
  Speaker 9: conquer the world. Not in an immediate militaristic sense, but
• 39:35
  Speaker 9: he believes... So Kevin Rudd has written a brilliant book
• 39:38
  Speaker 9: on Xi Jinping just called On Xi Jinping. Say whatever
• 39:41
  Speaker 9: you like about Kevin, but he knows Chinese communism very well.
• 39:45
  Speaker 9: And Xi believes that The Marxism which China follows is
• 39:50
  Speaker 9: universal and should be followed by all mankind. And China
• 39:54
  Speaker 9: is the vanguard, the midwife and the vanguard of history
• 39:57
  Speaker 9: in bringing this about. The Chinese are promoting an alternative
• 40:02
  Speaker 9: authoritarian model of development. They're cooperating with other communist nations like, well,
• 40:09
  Speaker 9: ex-communist nations like Russia and other authoritarian nations like North
• 40:13
  Speaker 9: Korea and Iran. And they want to be the number
• 40:20
  Speaker 9: one nation in the world and they want to export
• 40:22
  Speaker 9: to the world the Marxist understanding of humanity, which lives
• 40:26
  Speaker 9: and breathes in Xi's mind and right throughout the Communist
• 40:29
  Speaker 9: Party culture. Now, they're doing it shrewdly and incrementally and
• 40:33
  Speaker 9: bit by bit, but it's a very dark and nasty
• 40:39
  Speaker 9: program that they have for the rest.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Of the world, according to them.
• 40:43
  Speaker 9: Nobody's making this up. This is all in their own telling.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: So all of that leads to my final question, Greg.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: If Xi is a committed communist ideologue in the fashion
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: of his heroes, Joseph Stalin, and he's committed to spreading
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: this right around the world, what should Australia be doing differently?
• 41:02
  Speaker 9: Well, and the qualification, of course, is that he's not
• 41:05
  Speaker 9: acting like Stalin and Mao in terms of, you know,
• 41:08
  Speaker 9: great giant massacres or anything, but he admires their ideological commitment.
• 41:13
  Speaker 9: And Australia should be doing a few things differently. Firstly,
• 41:15
  Speaker 9: we should be really trying for trade diversification. We talk
• 41:19
  Speaker 9: about it, but we don't do it. We subjected India
• 41:21
  Speaker 9: to a shocking water torture rather than opening up the
• 41:24
  Speaker 9: Adani mine quickly. Secondly, we should be building up our
• 41:28
  Speaker 9: own independent military capabilities. so that come what may, any
• 41:32
  Speaker 9: aggressor against us, even a giant aggressor like China, would
• 41:35
  Speaker 9: have to pay a big price to try to subdue us.
• 41:39
  Speaker 9: And then thirdly, we should be trying to keep China
• 41:43
  Speaker 9: out of the South Pacific. We're doing a bit of
• 41:45
  Speaker 9: that under Albanese and we should be trying to keep
• 41:47
  Speaker 9: the Americans as closely involved in our alliance as we can.
• 41:52
  Speaker 9: But I'd say the main things different from now are
• 41:54
  Speaker 9: to build a real defence capability to diversify our trade
• 41:59
  Speaker 9: and to speak honestly about China within our own political discourse.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Greg Sheridan, it's why I like talking to you. You
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: always make a lot of sense. Thanks for coming on
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: the show tonight.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: All right, stick around. After the break, we cross to
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: the UK. That's coming up next.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Britain was the country that championed and then exported the
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: idea that a government should leave you and your opinion alone.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: These days the British government seems more interested in having
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: an opinion about your opinion. It's been revealed that in
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: the past five years more than 60,000 Brits have been
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: arrested for what the police call communications offences. Now, to
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: be fair, some offences are serious, like a man sending
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: threatening messages to his estranged partner. But a lot of Brits,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: they're not thugs, they're just normal people who happen to
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: have an opinion about, oh, I don't know, immigration, or
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: who happen to look at a TikTok video that a
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: bureaucrat somewhere deemed inappropriate. Joining me now is the host
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: of Triggered with Samara Gill on Talk TV. Samara Gill, Samara,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: what sort of offences are people being arrested for? Like
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: I said, for watching TikTok videos?
• 43:16
  Speaker 13: It's outrageous, seriously.
• 43:17
  Speaker 18: The thought police are well and truly in full force
• 43:21
  Speaker 18: in Britain at the moment. And honestly, I mean, I've
• 43:24
  Speaker 18: had a friendship with a woman called Lucy Connolly. I
• 43:27
  Speaker 18: actually spoke to her husband while she was in jail.
• 43:30
  Speaker 18: And this was a woman who was imprisoned for literally
• 43:34
  Speaker 18: sending a tweet out about immigration.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Now, what she.
• 43:37
  Speaker 18: Said after we had a particular attack in Southport was,
• 43:41
  Speaker 18: of course, horrible and terrible. But she actually ended up
• 43:45
  Speaker 18: serving 10 months in prison.
• 43:47
  Speaker 13: For that tweet, just a single tweet.
• 43:50
  Speaker 18: And this is someone with a completely clean record, no
• 43:53
  Speaker 18: prior offenses. She's literally just a sort of middle-aged housewife.
• 43:57
  Speaker 18: And apparently she was some sort of threat to society.
• 44:00
  Speaker 18: You also had someone that I worked with in our
• 44:03
  Speaker 18: building at London at Times Radio who had police show
• 44:08
  Speaker 18: up to his door because of a WhatsApp that he
• 44:10
  Speaker 18: sent in a parent's group chat. And the police went
• 44:15
  Speaker 18: through all of his things, all of his magazines, his books,
• 44:19
  Speaker 18: and they.
• 44:20
  Speaker 13: Were caught saying, oh, this looks a little Brexity. Like
• 44:23
  Speaker 13: Brexit is some sort of thought crime.
• 44:25
  Speaker 9: Wow.
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: It is ridiculous.
• 44:27
  Speaker 18: When you go into the cases, case by case, it
• 44:30
  Speaker 18: starts to get very, very gnarly and quite sinister. And
• 44:34
  Speaker 18: the fact that we're under a Labour government and we've
• 44:36
  Speaker 18: got things like this is pretty ridiculous.
• 44:39
  Speaker 13: You know, we've got shoplifting, phone.
• 44:40
  Speaker 18: Theft, crime is up, and none of that's getting investigated,
• 44:45
  Speaker 18: but apparently we've got the resources to go and knock
• 44:47
  Speaker 18: on people's doors for tweets.
• 44:49
  Speaker 13: It's ridiculous.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I'm putting my phone away. I want to stay out
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: of trouble with the UK police. The other interesting thing
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: about this is, as I understand it, correct me if
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: I'm wrong, but only about one in five people arrested
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: actually end up facing criminal charges.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: What does that tell us?
• 45:08
  Speaker 18: Well, that tells us that there's a lot of hot
• 45:11
  Speaker 18: air in a lot of these claims that are being made.
• 45:14
  Speaker 18: And I know for a fact that police officers don't
• 45:16
  Speaker 18: like having to go up to people's doors. We had
• 45:19
  Speaker 18: a very famous journalist, Alison Pearson, in the UK. She
• 45:24
  Speaker 18: was actually she had her door knocked on on a
• 45:26
  Speaker 18: Sunday morning of Remembrance Day for, again, a tweet that
• 45:30
  Speaker 18: she had put out five years ago, something that genuinely
• 45:35
  Speaker 18: wasn't important at all. And she ended up getting a
• 45:38
  Speaker 18: five-figure payout from the police because there was absolutely no
• 45:42
  Speaker 18: evidence to back up that that had incited violence or
• 45:45
  Speaker 18: anything like that. So these claims are a waste of
• 45:48
  Speaker 18: time and taxpayers' money. And honestly, it's a very bad
• 45:52
  Speaker 18: look for Britain. As you said, historically, they've been defenders
• 45:55
  Speaker 18: of free speech. For us to now be living in
• 45:58
  Speaker 18: some sort of weird nation where you can be, you know,
• 46:01
  Speaker 18: arrested for a tweet, but you can go and stab
• 46:04
  Speaker 18: someone and probably get away with it.
• 46:06
  Speaker 13: That's kind of what's going on here.
• 46:07
  Speaker 18: At least some authoritarian governments have their crime sorted out.
• 46:10
  Speaker 13: We're just focusing on the thoughts over here.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Well, of course, people, as you said, have been arrested
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: for tweeting about immigration. And there's a lot of opposition
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: to illegal migration. And I guess why wouldn't there be?
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: None of us would be happy about anyone walking into
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: our homes. Why would we be happy with just anyone
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: walking into our country? But is opposition starting to take
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: on a different and maybe more dangerous form? Over the weekend,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: we had hundreds of masked men shut down the port
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: of Dover, where people routinely arrived by boat. And overnight,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: we saw around 500 demonstrators gathered at Portsmouth. to protest
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: the arrival of a dinghy carrying 140 illegals. How do
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: you feel about these protests? I mean, on the one hand,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: they're shocking, but if the government refuses to police borders,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: should they be surprised when the populace does it?
• 47:00
  Speaker 18: Yeah, it's a really good point, actually. I mean, it's
• 47:02
  Speaker 18: no secret that Britain has a completely porous border. The
• 47:07
  Speaker 18: doors are wide open over here and the illegals are
• 47:09
  Speaker 18: coming through. And this Portsmouth kind of entry is very
• 47:14
  Speaker 18: interesting because it's all about the fact that it's a
• 47:17
  Speaker 18: different entryway and the people smugglers are now finding other
• 47:20
  Speaker 18: routes to get into this country. The problem here is
• 47:23
  Speaker 18: with the citizen vigilantism of the masked men is that, yes,
• 47:27
  Speaker 18: you almost can't blame them because it seems like there's
• 47:32
  Speaker 18: total government inaction over this. But of course, one should
• 47:35
  Speaker 18: never take the law into their own hands. I think
• 47:38
  Speaker 18: it's a really tricky situation. And unfortunately, our Labour government
• 47:41
  Speaker 18: over here continues to kind of put band-aids over bullet holes.
• 47:45
  Speaker 13: And, you know, of course, is.
• 47:46
  Speaker 18: The first to go and decry these protesters, but then
• 47:50
  Speaker 18: doesn't want to address the issue. Why are there mega
• 47:53
  Speaker 18: dinghies arriving on the shore full of unchecked men, totally unvetted,
• 47:57
  Speaker 18: who are going to live in three-star hotels the night
• 48:00
  Speaker 18: that they arrive? That's the problem here that they should
• 48:03
  Speaker 18: be addressing. But of course, they want to just brandish
• 48:06
  Speaker 18: whoever goes out and protests as a far-right thug. And hey,
• 48:09
  Speaker 18: some of them are, but some of them are just
• 48:11
  Speaker 18: concerned citizens as well.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you make a really great point that the government
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: seem less concerned about these strange men rocking up on
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: the beach than they do about British men who are
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: upset and annoyed by it.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I've only got a couple of seconds.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Is there much public support for these protesters or are
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: people really upset about the protests?
• 48:32
  Speaker 18: Look, there's public support for the protesters because those towns
• 48:35
  Speaker 18: have been completely destroyed. But, of course, no-one is encouraging
• 48:39
  Speaker 18: anyone to get out there in a mask with no
• 48:42
  Speaker 18: identity and do things like that, of course.
• 48:44
  Speaker 13: But peaceful protest, always welcome.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Good point.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Samara, always great to chat with you. Thanks for joining
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: me tonight. And thanks to you at home for watching
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Don't Go Anywhere.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Up right now, Shari Markson.