Latest / NO FILTER / Joe Rogan Experience _1315 - Bob Lazar _ Jeremy Corbell

Transcript

Joe Rogan Experience _1315 - Bob Lazar _ Jeremy Corbell · NO FILTER

0:00
Speaker 1: Two one, boom, and we're live. First of all, cheers, gentlemen,
0:04
Speaker 1: let's have a little bit old toast. Relax. Bob, thank
0:08
Speaker 1: you very much for doing this. I really appreciate it.
0:09
Speaker 1: I understand that you've told the story many many times.
0:13
Speaker 1: You've been grilled many many times, and it's very stressful
0:17
Speaker 1: for you. So I really really appreciate your time. For
0:19
Speaker 1: people who don't know the story, there is a documentary.
0:24
Speaker 1: Jeremy Corbel has a documentary out right now. It's called
0:28
Speaker 1: Bob Lazar. Area fifty one and UFOs and Flying Saucers
0:32
Speaker 1: and Flag Saucers.
0:33
Speaker 2: These are fifty one and Flying Sky.
0:36
Speaker 1: I first heard your story decades ago. I've I told
0:40
Speaker 1: you last night we went out to dinner. I've seen
0:42
Speaker 1: pretty much every interview you've ever given. I've followed the
0:45
Speaker 1: story incredibly closely. But for people who don't know the story,
0:49
Speaker 1: let's give them the bullet points. You used to work
0:54
Speaker 1: at Area fifty one. An Area fifty one got you.
0:58
Speaker 3: You went like, well, you know, we want to be accurate.
1:01
Speaker 3: Area four S four it's about fifteen miles south of
1:05
Speaker 3: Area fifty.
1:06
Speaker 1: One, Okay, but you worked in what would you how
1:12
Speaker 1: would you describe it.
1:13
Speaker 3: I guess within the Area fifty one compound, you can
1:17
Speaker 3: call that a subset of Area fifty one.
1:20
Speaker 1: And you got that job before that, you were working
1:24
Speaker 1: before that.
1:24
Speaker 3: I had worked at Los Alamos National Labs in New Mexico.
1:28
Speaker 1: And you were involved in what kind of.
1:30
Speaker 3: Worked the nuclear weapon development physics. I mean that's they
1:33
Speaker 3: do everything there.
1:35
Speaker 1: So how do they approach you to say, hey, bomb
1:38
Speaker 1: once you come on out to the Nevada Desert.
1:42
Speaker 3: Well, the way this went down was, at that time,
1:48
Speaker 3: it was nineteen eighty two, I'd put a jet engine
1:54
Speaker 3: in my Honda and Los Alamos put it on the
1:59
Speaker 3: front page of the Paya said, you know, Los Alamos,
2:03
Speaker 3: man physicist at the lab. You know, built this two
2:06
Speaker 3: hundred mile an hour you know, on the jet car
2:09
Speaker 3: that I drove to work every day. So so I
2:13
Speaker 3: was known in Los Alamos the guy with the weird car.
2:16
Speaker 3: And you know you could hear it from you know,
2:18
Speaker 3: a mile away. Anyway, the day that came out on
2:23
Speaker 3: the front page of the paper was the day Edward Teller,
2:26
Speaker 3: the father of the hydrogen bomb, was giving a lecture
2:30
Speaker 3: down there at the lab. And we didn't have much
2:33
Speaker 3: going on that day in our group, and I asked
2:36
Speaker 3: if I could go down there. And I went down
2:40
Speaker 3: there early and Ed Teller was outside leaning on a
2:45
Speaker 3: brick wall there and reading the front page of the paper.
2:48
Speaker 3: Now there's a guy out a history. So I introduced myself. Hey,
2:51
Speaker 3: I'm the guy you're reading about there, and we talked
2:53
Speaker 3: for a little while and it was cool.
2:56
Speaker 1: You know.
2:56
Speaker 3: Fast forward to years later. I had moved out to
2:58
Speaker 3: Las Vegas and had you know, left Los Alamos and
3:02
Speaker 3: you know, went on to other things, and I wanted
3:04
Speaker 3: to get back into the scientific community, you know, I
3:07
Speaker 3: left to start other businesses and.
3:09
Speaker 4: And that sort of thing.
3:10
Speaker 3: So I sent resumes out and one of them went
3:13
Speaker 3: out to Ed Teller and referenced our meeting, you know,
3:17
Speaker 3: back back in the of the day. And anyway, he
3:20
Speaker 3: remembered me and gave me a reference somebody to contact
3:25
Speaker 3: at EGNG. And that's pretty much how it started.
3:30
Speaker 1: So you get a phone call or a letter, like
3:33
Speaker 1: what do you get?
3:36
Speaker 3: Well, I got a what did I get? I got
3:39
Speaker 3: a letter initially and went down for an interview probably
3:44
Speaker 3: a couple times, and it was down at EG and
3:46
Speaker 3: G Special Projects, which was at McCarron airport at that
3:50
Speaker 3: time in Las Vegas.
3:51
Speaker 1: And did they give you any sort of job description
3:54
Speaker 1: of what you were applying for.
3:56
Speaker 3: They said it was for ed I can't remember exactly
4:00
Speaker 3: what they did. This was a long time ago, but
4:02
Speaker 3: I think it was advanced propulsion or something like that,
4:07
Speaker 3: something relatively generic. And they said it's in a remote area.
4:12
Speaker 3: You know, it's going to be some days on, some
4:14
Speaker 3: days off, and you know, it was kind of a
4:19
Speaker 3: it was kind of not exactly a full time job,
4:22
Speaker 3: but you might have to be out there for two
4:23
Speaker 3: weeks at a time and take two weeks off, so
4:26
Speaker 3: it was kind of a the work schedule would be
4:29
Speaker 3: kind of broken up.
4:30
Speaker 1: And did it seem attracted you or did it seem weird?
4:34
Speaker 3: No, it really wasn't weird because people that work at
4:37
Speaker 3: the test site, anybody that's familiar with the area up there,
4:40
Speaker 3: you know, working at the nuclear test site or at
4:43
Speaker 3: the Tona pot test range north of there, that's typically
4:47
Speaker 3: how things go.
4:48
Speaker 1: So you had known about it from the scientific community
4:51
Speaker 1: because the area fifty one at that time was.
4:53
Speaker 3: No they did say anything about Area fifty one, okay,
4:55
Speaker 3: So they just said it was in a you know,
4:57
Speaker 3: in a remote location and you just know up at
5:00
Speaker 3: the test site, right. So, but there was no mention
5:03
Speaker 3: of Area fifty one at that time.
5:04
Speaker 1: So they've done hundreds of nuclear tests in Nevada and
5:08
Speaker 1: Nevada that that whole area was, there's been. There's giant
5:11
Speaker 1: chunks of Nevada that people.
5:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a big piece of Nevada and it's split
5:15
Speaker 3: up into different areas. There's a nuclear test site, there's
5:18
Speaker 3: Area fifty one, there's the Tona pot test range north
5:21
Speaker 3: of that, there's little sub areas, there's areas where they
5:23
Speaker 3: test chemical weapons and things like that. So it's all
5:26
Speaker 3: broken up as a you know, gigantic test area.
5:28
Speaker 1: So take me back to first day on the job.
5:32
Speaker 1: You accept the job, they take you out there.
5:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's.
5:39
Speaker 3: The first day. Really, I didn't really get to see
5:41
Speaker 3: a whole lot. The first day was essentially just paperwork.
5:44
Speaker 3: That's when I flew into Area fifty one proper and
5:47
Speaker 3: I left McCarran Airport and flew what they call the
5:51
Speaker 3: Janet flights, just you know, a passenger plane from Las
5:57
Speaker 3: Vegas to Area fifty one. And it was really just
6:01
Speaker 3: going through a mountain of paperwork that day, from security clearances,
6:06
Speaker 3: to god, there was. It was like two or three
6:10
Speaker 3: hours of just solid paperwork, and that was That was
6:13
Speaker 3: really an uneventful first day.
6:16
Speaker 1: When did things get weird? When did you realize at
6:23
Speaker 1: what point in time did you say, hey, this is
6:26
Speaker 1: not normal work, Like this doesn't even seem like it's
6:30
Speaker 1: from this planet that.
6:33
Speaker 3: I can't tell you what day that occurred on because
6:35
Speaker 3: so much time has gone by. The days of kind
6:38
Speaker 3: of fused into one and I can't separate.
6:41
Speaker 1: Was it a slow burn or was there a moment
6:44
Speaker 1: of recognition?
6:45
Speaker 3: Well? There. The first inkling I had was when I
6:50
Speaker 3: came in. Normally there's this facility that is at S four.
6:54
Speaker 3: It's in the side of a mountain, and normally we
6:58
Speaker 3: had pulled in the bus and gone around the front
7:01
Speaker 3: through a normal double door. This time that I went in,
7:06
Speaker 3: there were hanger doors open. I went in through the
7:09
Speaker 3: hangar door, and in the hanger door was the disc
7:12
Speaker 3: the flying saucer that I worked on. I saw it
7:15
Speaker 3: sitting there and we walked by. It had a little
7:17
Speaker 3: American flag stuck on the side, and I thought, oh
7:20
Speaker 3: my god, this finally explains all the flying saucer stories.
7:23
Speaker 3: This is just an advanced fighter and this is fucking hilarious.
7:28
Speaker 3: So I went by, I slipped my hand alongside it.
7:31
Speaker 3: I got reprimanded immediately for touching the thing. And there
7:35
Speaker 3: was a guy, an armed guard that followed us in
7:36
Speaker 3: and just said keep your eyes at forward, in your
7:39
Speaker 3: hands at your side, and just walk in the door.
7:41
Speaker 3: So that was the first time I had seen anything
7:44
Speaker 3: that was weird. It was some time later that I
7:49
Speaker 3: was introduced to my lab partner, Barry, and we had
7:54
Speaker 3: some of the subcomponents of the craft in the lab
7:58
Speaker 3: and Barry was very anxious to get a new lab partner,
8:02
Speaker 3: so he was very talkative and couldn't wait to show
8:04
Speaker 3: me different things. And it was in the demonstration of
8:07
Speaker 3: the reactor working where it caught my attention to where
8:13
Speaker 3: this is technology that doesn't even exist. So, I mean,
8:18
Speaker 3: that was the first time I knew that this is
8:20
Speaker 3: really something different.
8:22
Speaker 1: What was it? What was what was it about this
8:27
Speaker 1: reactor that made you think that it didn't exist technologically?
8:33
Speaker 3: Well, it was the I actually have to back up,
8:35
Speaker 3: because there were some briefings that I read it before
8:38
Speaker 3: that that, you know, certainly gave me the impression that
8:43
Speaker 3: this was going to be a weird job. But this
8:45
Speaker 3: was the first hands on thing. This was a small
8:48
Speaker 3: reactor about the size of a hemisphere, about the size
8:50
Speaker 3: of a basketball, on a metal plate, and when it
8:55
Speaker 3: was running, it produced a gravitational field, a gravitational field
8:58
Speaker 3: of its own. Now, this is something that we can't do.
9:01
Speaker 3: We can't produce any gravity. The only way we get
9:04
Speaker 3: gravity is from large quantities of mass. But there's no
9:08
Speaker 3: machine we can have that turns on that makes gravity.
9:11
Speaker 3: Like you know, you can turn on an electromagnet and
9:13
Speaker 3: it makes a magnetic field. We can't make a gravitational field. Anyway.
9:17
Speaker 3: This device was producing that, and Barry said, almost like
9:22
Speaker 3: he was bragging, go ahead, try and try and touch
9:25
Speaker 3: the sphere and I couldn't. It pushed my hands away,
9:28
Speaker 3: just like two light poles of a magnet.
9:30
Speaker 1: So that was, uh so like when you take two
9:31
Speaker 1: magnets and trying to press them together and there yeahs
9:34
Speaker 1: each other.
9:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of cushioned feeling, but you can't. You can't
9:37
Speaker 3: get them together. The closer you put them, the more
9:39
Speaker 3: they push.
9:40
Speaker 1: But you felt that physically with my hand.
9:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now there's nothing. There's nothing that does that. And
9:45
Speaker 3: that immediately caught my attention, going wow, this is something else.
9:49
Speaker 1: What was your thought like when you felt that and
9:51
Speaker 1: you knew that there was nothing that you were aware
9:54
Speaker 1: of that could produce.
9:55
Speaker 3: Then that connected me to the briefings that I read
9:59
Speaker 3: on the the first day at S four was that
10:03
Speaker 3: you know, everything that I had read was apparently accurate
10:06
Speaker 3: and what were you reading? I right, it was kind
10:09
Speaker 3: of an overview. This project was to back engineer the
10:15
Speaker 3: alien craft, and specifically it was to try and back
10:20
Speaker 3: engineer and see if we can duplicate the technology with
10:23
Speaker 3: available materials. Now, to do this, they split the project
10:28
Speaker 3: into you know, many different pieces for several reasons. They
10:33
Speaker 3: do this in all classified projects, so nobody has the
10:36
Speaker 3: complete story, but they compartmentalize everything. Now, we had the
10:41
Speaker 3: power and propulsion system, so what the briefings they gave
10:44
Speaker 3: me were like a one or two page overview of
10:46
Speaker 3: some of the other projects that were going on, you know,
10:49
Speaker 3: on the craft. The only reason they do that is
10:52
Speaker 3: just in case what you're working on is connected intimately
10:55
Speaker 3: in some way that we don't know if to one
10:57
Speaker 3: of the other projects. You have to know they're.
10:59
Speaker 4: Excuse me, there existence, So.
11:04
Speaker 3: You know, I again, everything from metallurgy, to you know,
11:09
Speaker 3: weapon potential of the craft, and these were all, you know,
11:13
Speaker 3: essentially very short briefings. But mine was just power and propulsion,
11:18
Speaker 3: and it made it very clear that what I read
11:22
Speaker 3: was accurate.
11:23
Speaker 1: So when you're reading that before you actually saw the reactor,
11:28
Speaker 1: what were your thoughts on what they were describing. If
11:32
Speaker 1: you knew that something like that didn't exist and they're
11:36
Speaker 1: describing it in the briefings, what did you think you
11:38
Speaker 1: were going to see?
11:40
Speaker 3: I really I didn't know at the time. I mean
11:42
Speaker 3: I was reading, I thought, is this is some.
11:44
Speaker 1: Kind of test, see if you're crazy, well, not.
11:48
Speaker 3: To see if I'm crazy to you know, a lot
11:50
Speaker 3: of times they'll take in real high security jobs. I
11:55
Speaker 3: mean they'll intentionally insert nonsense into them, whether it's to
12:00
Speaker 3: confuse the fact or if for someone was to leak
12:02
Speaker 3: it out, they would carry that information along and know
12:05
Speaker 3: where it came from. So I read through the documents,
12:10
Speaker 3: but you know, I didn't know if this was you know,
12:12
Speaker 3: part of some kind of test or you know, or what,
12:17
Speaker 3: or was it potentially realistic. I mean I really didn't
12:20
Speaker 3: consider it being all that possible as far as being
12:25
Speaker 3: the actual thing that I was going.
12:27
Speaker 4: To work on at the time.
12:28
Speaker 1: How did they turn it on the reactor?
12:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, the reactor could be turned on or turned off
12:34
Speaker 3: in a lot of different ways. The way Barry showed me,
12:38
Speaker 3: the hemisphere is removed. There's a small tower in the middle.
12:42
Speaker 3: When you put the hemisphere on, the reactor activates. The
12:45
Speaker 3: reactor shuts down. It's load sensing, so if there's if
12:50
Speaker 3: there's no load on the reactor at all, it shuts down.
12:53
Speaker 3: When there's a load present on it, it starts up again.
12:57
Speaker 3: Load meaning you can consider it an electrical load. So
13:03
Speaker 3: although it doesn't necessarily operate electrically, there's no wiring that
13:08
Speaker 3: connects any of the subcomponents together whatsoever. They just have
13:11
Speaker 3: to be in the immediate vicinity. It's a it is,
13:15
Speaker 3: but the stuff is borderline magic and that's essentially where
13:20
Speaker 3: we left it, you know when I left the project.
13:23
Speaker 1: So there was no progress made.
13:25
Speaker 3: There was some progress, I mean, we did identify at
13:28
Speaker 3: least we think some processes and had a rough idea
13:32
Speaker 3: we think of what was going on. But I think
13:35
Speaker 3: this is a problem that they've had for a long time.
13:39
Speaker 3: And you know, I was replacing somebody that Barry worked
13:44
Speaker 3: with prior to me, and I think there was some
13:46
Speaker 3: horrific accident that I didn't have a whole lot of
13:49
Speaker 3: information on, but you know, Barry alluded to.
13:52
Speaker 1: That, a horrific accident like where someone.
13:55
Speaker 3: Died or yeah, where somebody died.
13:57
Speaker 1: Because they were trying to tamper with things or figure
13:59
Speaker 1: out how something worked.
14:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, the reactor in particular, but yet he let you
14:04
Speaker 3: touch it. Yeah. I think what they were trying to
14:07
Speaker 3: do was cut into one. Now they had they had
14:10
Speaker 3: more than one there, and that was supposedly there was
14:13
Speaker 3: an unannounced nuclear test, and that's what it was at
14:18
Speaker 3: the time. I remember they were still doing an underground
14:19
Speaker 3: nuclear test at the test site. But from what I understand,
14:24
Speaker 3: according to Barry, there was an attempt made. Now, this
14:26
Speaker 3: must have been a pretty desperate attent because it's not
14:29
Speaker 3: a very scientific process to cut, you know, analyze something
14:33
Speaker 3: that way. But it looked like they used a plasma
14:35
Speaker 3: cutter or something. I got to cut into an operating reactor.
14:39
Speaker 1: How many of these things did they have?
14:41
Speaker 3: They had nine, nine craft altogether. I only got hands
14:44
Speaker 3: on with one of them, so I can't really say
14:48
Speaker 3: what the how the others operated.
14:50
Speaker 1: Did you see the other ones.
14:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, at one time, and only one time, the bay
14:54
Speaker 3: doors that between the hangars were all open and I
14:57
Speaker 3: could see all the way through.
15:00
Speaker 1: When were they all exactly the same?
15:02
Speaker 3: No, they were all different, different shapes.
15:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they were all from somewhere else. Yeah.
15:08
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
15:09
Speaker 1: Now did anyone make any attempt to explain or to
15:15
Speaker 1: tell you where they came from?
15:17
Speaker 3: No, no, no one is the least bit interested in
15:20
Speaker 3: letting everybody know all the facts. They want to give
15:23
Speaker 3: you the minimum information that's necessary to complete your task.
15:26
Speaker 3: So you're not getting the story of where they came from.
15:29
Speaker 3: You're not getting the story of how much progress other
15:32
Speaker 3: people are making. You just focus on the small component.
15:36
Speaker 1: But they gave you some indication that they've been working
15:38
Speaker 1: on these for a while. Yeah, when do you think
15:42
Speaker 1: they acquired these?
15:45
Speaker 3: I really couldn't say. I think they've been around for
15:48
Speaker 3: a while.
15:50
Speaker 1: So they bring you into this room, You see this
15:55
Speaker 1: reactor working. You realize this is nothing that as far
15:59
Speaker 1: as like the scientific community at current time has the
16:03
Speaker 1: ability to create, we still don't. What is your life
16:07
Speaker 1: like from that moment on? Is that where everything changes?
16:10
Speaker 1: Because you do you? I mean, I would imagine the
16:12
Speaker 1: moment you actually make contact was something that's extraterrestrial, whether
16:17
Speaker 1: it's an object or a being, something where you can
16:19
Speaker 1: actually absolutely be certain it's not from here. Your whole paradigm,
16:25
Speaker 1: the whole world you live in is now a different place.
16:28
Speaker 3: Well, this is the only time it became exciting. You know,
16:31
Speaker 3: the rest of the time it was really an ominous
16:35
Speaker 3: feeling being at work. But at that time it was exciting.
16:39
Speaker 3: I mean, this was now I knew we were on
16:42
Speaker 3: the absolute beyond, actually beyond the cutting edge of science,
16:45
Speaker 3: and I was I was so absolutely excited to be there.
16:49
Speaker 3: Every single time I was, you know, this was a
16:54
Speaker 3: fantastic opportunity. And however, in short order it began to
17:02
Speaker 3: concern me. We really have no idea what we're talking about,
17:08
Speaker 3: and the excitement kind of turned to dread at some
17:13
Speaker 3: point because the amount of power we're dealing with is astronomical.
17:19
Speaker 3: I mean, to affect gravity, to produce the effects like
17:22
Speaker 3: this equipment does, takes huge amounts of power. And I've
17:27
Speaker 3: given the example before of you know, taking a small
17:32
Speaker 3: portable nuclear reactor and you know, putting it back into
17:35
Speaker 3: Victorian times, you know, with the scientists of the time
17:38
Speaker 3: and just dropping it in a room and they come
17:41
Speaker 3: and look at it and see that it's producing power
17:44
Speaker 3: and wonder how it works. That they start taking it apart,
17:47
Speaker 3: and as soon as they get some of the shielding off,
17:50
Speaker 3: the people are going to drop dead because of the
17:52
Speaker 3: radiation inside. Now people have no idea that radiation even
17:57
Speaker 3: exists back then, but anybody that comes into to check
18:00
Speaker 3: on him will also drop dead. And you know, there's
18:05
Speaker 3: no reason that that exact scenario couldn't happen with what
18:08
Speaker 3: we're dealing with. We have no idea how the physics
18:12
Speaker 3: operate within this thing. The power levels are are, like
18:16
Speaker 3: I said, astronomical, Like it's incredibly dangerous to tinker with
18:19
Speaker 3: something like that.
18:21
Speaker 4: And you know, in.
18:22
Speaker 3: Some respects we were guinea pigs just try to find
18:25
Speaker 3: out how to make this thing.
18:26
Speaker 1: So they had had a series, as far as you're surmised,
18:30
Speaker 1: they had a series of different scientists try to back
18:33
Speaker 1: engineer this thing, try to figure out what this thing was.
18:35
Speaker 1: And they would bring in new people and like, let's
18:37
Speaker 1: throw Bob at it.
18:38
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and they I don't know how many, but
18:41
Speaker 3: I knew there was certainly one before me, and I
18:44
Speaker 3: knew he died during the analysis.
18:46
Speaker 4: Of the or the reactor itself, and.
18:51
Speaker 1: You don't know how many have worked on it and
18:53
Speaker 1: no one gave it.
18:55
Speaker 3: This could have been there for fifty years, It could
18:58
Speaker 3: have been there for five years.
19:00
Speaker 1: Instructions, what are they saying, like when they're giving you direction,
19:03
Speaker 1: they're showing you all this stuff, like, what what are
19:05
Speaker 1: they saying specifically? What are they asking of you?
19:08
Speaker 3: Well, essentially what they ask is what I said. We
19:11
Speaker 3: are just together as much information as possible, find out
19:14
Speaker 3: how it operates, and see if we can duplicate it.
19:16
Speaker 1: So but the you where it was from, They never
19:20
Speaker 1: let you ask questions about where it's from.
19:22
Speaker 3: Well, if the information I read in the briefings was accurate.
19:28
Speaker 3: Now what I do have to say is the information
19:30
Speaker 3: that pertained directly to the reactor was accurate. What I
19:35
Speaker 3: read did, I mean, did jive with reality in terms
19:41
Speaker 3: of how in terms of how it was made, how
19:45
Speaker 3: what we saw, how it operated, the materials, how it
19:48
Speaker 3: you know, turned on, and.
19:50
Speaker 4: What was discovered discovered about it.
19:54
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, the migraine is really making it hard for
19:56
Speaker 3: me to think care.
19:57
Speaker 1: Sorry, No, we talked that before the podcast. You tell
20:00
Speaker 1: her buddy Bob was getting a migraine. I know you're
20:02
Speaker 1: very stressed out by this, which is one of the
20:03
Speaker 1: reasons why I appreciate you doing this.
20:07
Speaker 3: Where was I already we're talking about, right, and so
20:12
Speaker 3: there was some paperwork that indicated that this was from
20:16
Speaker 3: the Zeta Reticularly star system. Now, yeah, now how they
20:22
Speaker 3: obtained that, haven't I haven't the slightest idea. But it
20:26
Speaker 3: wasn't just from the Zeta Reticularly star system. It was
20:29
Speaker 3: what they called ZR three, so it was a third
20:32
Speaker 3: planet in that star system. So there was no other
20:36
Speaker 3: information about it other than that's supposedly where the craft
20:40
Speaker 3: came from.
20:40
Speaker 4: Now is that true? I don't know.
20:42
Speaker 3: I have no way of verifying that. But that was
20:43
Speaker 3: printed in the same materials that reference the reactor. Now
20:47
Speaker 3: I looked that stuff up when I went home, and
20:51
Speaker 3: Zaeta Reticularly is a binary star, two stars at orbit
20:56
Speaker 3: orbit one another, and it's only visible in the southern
20:58
Speaker 3: hemisphere and it's about thirty mod light years away. So
21:01
Speaker 3: that's literally all the information I have about that. I
21:04
Speaker 3: don't know how they found out it came from there.
21:07
Speaker 1: And you also probably have some suspicions that they give
21:10
Speaker 1: you some disinformation, like you were talking about before where
21:13
Speaker 1: they were yeah, yeah too. I mean, if you ever
21:16
Speaker 1: decided to talk about this, they added a bunch of
21:18
Speaker 1: nonsense to make whatever is factual look ridiculous.
21:22
Speaker 3: Right, or be able to trace it down. They go, hey,
21:24
Speaker 3: this facts came out and you know this Lazar guy
21:27
Speaker 3: said it, you know, came from Zata Reticularly, so they
21:29
Speaker 3: knew it was.
21:30
Speaker 1: When we read Zeta Reticularly, We're like, what in the
21:33
Speaker 1: fuck is this?
21:35
Speaker 3: Well, reading all of this stuff, it was, what the.
21:38
Speaker 4: Fuck is this?
21:38
Speaker 1: You're like, why did I sign up for this?
21:40
Speaker 3: No, no, it would to me. This was cool.
21:42
Speaker 4: This was interesting.
21:43
Speaker 3: I said, I was just excited to be out in
21:45
Speaker 3: a secure area, you know, in the middle of the desert.
21:48
Speaker 3: I said, this is awesome. How old are you time
21:50
Speaker 3: I get as in my twenties.
21:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're probably totally geeked out.
21:55
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this was this was great. I mean I
21:59
Speaker 3: was excited, so I didn't care. I'm reading through everything, and.
22:02
Speaker 1: So you read through all the Zata Reticular thing. But
22:04
Speaker 1: then when you see the actual starship with the little
22:06
Speaker 1: American flagsticker on it, well that was was that later
22:10
Speaker 1: or before.
22:13
Speaker 3: That?
22:14
Speaker 4: That was before?
22:16
Speaker 1: So before so you see the thing before and you say, oh,
22:19
Speaker 1: before it hard so many years. Yeah, I can't either way,
22:23
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter.
22:24
Speaker 3: The days have fused together. It's so hard to separate
22:27
Speaker 3: what happened in each visit.
22:28
Speaker 1: Do you remember the thought process when you read that
22:30
Speaker 1: it's from Zeta reticuli, Yeah, it it.
22:33
Speaker 3: It didn't hit me like a ton of bricks or anything.
22:36
Speaker 3: It's it's like, yeah, okay, he was bullshit.
22:39
Speaker 1: I don't know now.
22:41
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean because when I read it, I
22:44
Speaker 3: hadn't verified anything, and this was just a bunch of
22:46
Speaker 3: stuff I was reading, and I thought, maybe after this,
22:48
Speaker 3: they're just going to give me a test and see
22:50
Speaker 3: what I can remember in crazy information, and then it
22:54
Speaker 3: would But like I said, when I finally went in
22:58
Speaker 3: with Barry and had hands on experience with what they
23:04
Speaker 3: were talking about, it gone a completely different meaning.
23:08
Speaker 1: So there's a plate, there's this thing that looks like
23:10
Speaker 1: half of basketball and when it's on, you can't come
23:13
Speaker 1: anywhere near it, you can't touch it. Right, How is
23:16
Speaker 1: what is gravity about that? Like the concept of gravity
23:20
Speaker 1: to most people's, gravity is bringing something towards.
23:22
Speaker 3: It, right, Well, I guess you would say it's anti gravity.
23:25
Speaker 3: It's gravity shifted one hundred and eighty degrees. It's a
23:28
Speaker 3: you know, anti gravity.
23:31
Speaker 1: And did they have any understanding about what could possibly
23:36
Speaker 1: create this effect? Did they have any areas where they'd
23:40
Speaker 1: like you to look into.
23:42
Speaker 3: No, they well, they knew there was a fuel source
23:49
Speaker 3: in it, and they were proficient at making it work.
23:54
Speaker 3: And again, my analogy to something like this is you
23:56
Speaker 3: can drop a motorcycle off in the wagon train days
23:59
Speaker 3: and just leave it with the keys parked outside somebody's place.
24:03
Speaker 3: Everybody'll come around it and they'll poke and prod and
24:05
Speaker 3: eventually they'll turn the key, get it to start, and
24:09
Speaker 3: become proficient at writing it. Yeah, but they won't be
24:12
Speaker 3: able to understand what the hell's going on. They won't
24:15
Speaker 3: be able to make the plastic fender, much less anything else.
24:19
Speaker 3: And I think that's exactly the state we were at.
24:21
Speaker 3: We played around with the parts long enough before I
24:24
Speaker 3: got there where they could make the reactor operate, take
24:28
Speaker 3: the fuel out, and know that it makes it work.
24:32
Speaker 3: How exactly what was going on in the reactor made
24:37
Speaker 3: a mystery at the time. I think we made some
24:41
Speaker 3: progress on what was going on inside, but I don't
24:45
Speaker 3: think anybody really knew anything. They could just watch what
24:48
Speaker 3: was going on and make note of it. How long
24:51
Speaker 3: were you there, I'd say about six months or so.
24:54
Speaker 1: And what progress was made while you were there?
24:57
Speaker 3: Well, we came up with a bunch of reasonably good
25:02
Speaker 3: ideas about how the reactor worked, and one of them
25:06
Speaker 3: was the base. The square base of it was essentially
25:09
Speaker 3: like a cyclotron, which is a small particle accelerator a
25:13
Speaker 3: circular one. Particle accelerators or linear particle accelerators are just
25:17
Speaker 3: you know, long tube essentially, and they accelerate particles with
25:21
Speaker 3: high voltagen you know, radio frequencies till they reach high speeds.
25:25
Speaker 3: But a cyclotron does that in a small circular area.
25:29
Speaker 3: And there's this very heavy element fuel element one point
25:33
Speaker 3: fifteen something that wasn't on our periodic.
25:35
Speaker 4: Charts at the time, but it is now it is now.
25:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, when did it become on the periodic table now?
25:42
Speaker 3: The way the charts now, you know, I don't remember.
25:45
Speaker 3: Do you remember when they.
25:46
Speaker 2: Two thousand and four dermstat Germany? I think is where
25:49
Speaker 2: they first fabricated four atoms. They lasted two hundred twenty
25:52
Speaker 2: milliseconds with the atoms. It's nothing right, And then it
25:56
Speaker 2: later was discovered a couple more times they could fabricate it.
25:59
Speaker 2: Then they gave it. They gave it a place then
26:01
Speaker 2: on the periodic chart after that called it Moscovian.
26:04
Speaker 1: So they told you about this stuff in nineteen eighty two.
26:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, well.
26:12
Speaker 1: What year was this?
26:13
Speaker 3: It was eighty eight and eighty nine when I was there.
26:16
Speaker 3: Eighty two is when you lost Alamos.
26:18
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Yeah, so eighty eighty nine they told you
26:21
Speaker 1: about this stuff, So this was not like.
26:23
Speaker 3: No, they didn't. They didn't tell me about it. That's
26:25
Speaker 3: one of the things that this group came up with.
26:28
Speaker 3: The God I keep losing my train of thought with
26:33
Speaker 3: this thing.
26:34
Speaker 1: So this one area, this this element one fifteen was
26:39
Speaker 1: the fuel.
26:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was the fuel.
26:51
Speaker 2: The world will forgive you for having a migrant, can
26:56
Speaker 2: give you more, baksh I say what yeah, definitely. As
26:58
Speaker 2: I say, one thing, you know, for the last thirty years,
27:02
Speaker 2: people have just been on the attack on Bob, you know,
27:05
Speaker 2: getting to know him, the personal effects on his life.
27:07
Speaker 2: It's really hard to understand unless you meet his family
27:10
Speaker 2: and his wife. I mean, this is the last thing
27:13
Speaker 2: he wanted to fucking do was have to talk.
27:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should explain that Jeremy, you and I had
27:18
Speaker 1: this conversation. I watched your documentary. We had this conversation
27:22
Speaker 1: and I said, I have to talk to him. Yeah,
27:24
Speaker 1: the document there was there's been detractors. There's been a
27:28
Speaker 1: bunch of people that called bullshit on many of the
27:30
Speaker 1: things that you've said. But over time, many of the
27:34
Speaker 1: things that you talked about, even in the eighties have
27:37
Speaker 1: proven to be true. Things that people said were not
27:40
Speaker 1: true were proven to be true. Element one fifteen was
27:43
Speaker 1: one of them, right.
27:45
Speaker 3: Right, right?
27:46
Speaker 1: Uh.
27:46
Speaker 3: Element one fifteen, the fuel they had was stable. In
27:50
Speaker 3: other words, it didn't decay, it wasn't emitting radioactivity. When
27:54
Speaker 3: they synthesized the two or three atoms of the one fifteen,
27:59
Speaker 3: it did decay, and it was not a stable element.
28:02
Speaker 3: So they're kind of two different things. But this is
28:05
Speaker 3: kind of typical. Elements always have or pretty much always
28:09
Speaker 3: have stable isotopes and unstable isotopes, like I think caesium
28:14
Speaker 3: has like thirty unstable isotopes to it. So well, hydrogen,
28:18
Speaker 3: for example, you're familiar with hydrogen gas. It's stable, it's
28:23
Speaker 3: not radioactive, but there's also two other types of hydrogen,
28:28
Speaker 3: deuterium and tritium, and deuterium isn't radioactive. It's another stable isotope, hydrogen,
28:34
Speaker 3: but tritium is radioactive. Now they're all hydrogen, but they
28:38
Speaker 3: just have different amounts of neutrons. So it's the same
28:41
Speaker 3: thing with other elements and element one fifteen, depending on
28:45
Speaker 3: the amount of neutrons it has, designates the isotope, but
28:50
Speaker 3: it's one fifteen. They will continue to take or experiment
28:56
Speaker 3: and try and make one fifteen at different isotopes, and
28:59
Speaker 3: I'm sure eventually they'll come up with a stable version.
29:02
Speaker 3: But it's the stable version that has the properties that
29:05
Speaker 3: we're talking about.
29:06
Speaker 1: So they somehow or another had acquired a stable version.
29:10
Speaker 1: Did they say that the stable version had come with
29:12
Speaker 1: this craft?
29:12
Speaker 4: It absolutely came with the graft.
29:14
Speaker 1: Yeah. So at the time, you having a firm knowledge
29:18
Speaker 1: of the periodic chart and knowing what was real and
29:21
Speaker 1: what wasn't real, what was your reaction to having this
29:24
Speaker 1: stable element one point fifteen that wasn't even supposed to exist.
29:27
Speaker 3: Well, everything was impossible, right, I mean down to the metal.
29:31
Speaker 3: I did get a chance to look inside the craft
29:35
Speaker 3: on only one occasion, and this was important because where
29:40
Speaker 3: the reactors sat might have been critical to how it operated,
29:44
Speaker 3: since everything operates without any interconnection, so the placement of
29:48
Speaker 3: components might be critical. So they allowed me to go
29:52
Speaker 3: inside and look at it again.
29:56
Speaker 4: I forgot where the hell I am.
29:58
Speaker 1: So you're going into this craft? And what are you
30:01
Speaker 1: thinking when you're inside of it? Like, what are you seeing?
30:04
Speaker 3: It's a very ominous feeling because it's there are no
30:10
Speaker 3: First of all, everything is one color. It's like a
30:13
Speaker 3: dark pewter color, and there are no right angles anywhere.
30:18
Speaker 3: It's as if somebody took I've said this before, somebody
30:21
Speaker 3: took a model out of and fashioned it out of
30:25
Speaker 3: wax and then heated it just for a short time,
30:27
Speaker 3: so everything melted. Everything looks like it's fused together. Everything
30:31
Speaker 3: is a radius of curvature where two items meet. It's
30:36
Speaker 3: a really weird looking thing, but there was almost nothing
30:44
Speaker 3: other than a small foldable hatchway that that looked recognizable.
30:50
Speaker 3: Everything was was really unworldy to pick on it a
30:55
Speaker 3: way to describe it.
30:57
Speaker 1: So you get inside this thing and it's designed for
31:00
Speaker 1: something that's much smaller than a human being.
31:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't really stand up till you get to
31:04
Speaker 3: the very center of it.
31:05
Speaker 1: And I'll tall you. I'm five ten and what do
31:08
Speaker 1: you think this was designed for?
31:10
Speaker 3: I'd say something close to half my height.
31:12
Speaker 1: Wow, So these little three foot tallish creatures.
31:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the seats were small too, I mean obviously
31:20
Speaker 3: it was made, you know, for something something small. But
31:23
Speaker 3: there is no like, there's there's nothing else in there.
31:28
Speaker 3: There's just seats, the reactor and some of the subcomponents.
31:31
Speaker 3: There's no there's no control panels, there's no bathroom, there's
31:34
Speaker 3: no no decorative components or artwork or anything that you
31:39
Speaker 3: would recognize or trim. I mean, it's just a very
31:42
Speaker 3: bare bones thing.
31:44
Speaker 1: You're not seeing any screens.
31:47
Speaker 3: Well, there are archways around it that are part of
31:50
Speaker 3: the superstructure, and that one of the archways can become transparent.
31:56
Speaker 3: When I was in there, there was another group working
31:59
Speaker 3: on one of the archways, and you could call that
32:03
Speaker 3: a screen more or less.
32:05
Speaker 1: So through that archway it would be it would maintain
32:09
Speaker 1: the solidity, the solid whatever metal it was.
32:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you could see it just became transparent.
32:16
Speaker 4: Yeah.
32:16
Speaker 3: I saw that happen once or twice before I left.
32:19
Speaker 1: Did you ask any questions about what the fund?
32:21
Speaker 3: No, there's no asking.
32:22
Speaker 1: There's no asking questions. Now, but when you watch something
32:25
Speaker 1: become transparent and you realize it's still there but you
32:28
Speaker 1: can now see through it.
32:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, now that's not that impressive. We do
32:32
Speaker 3: have some liquid crystal materials that are like that. You
32:35
Speaker 3: know they have smart glass. Yeah, they call it smart class.
32:39
Speaker 3: So this is just and I don't know if the
32:41
Speaker 3: craft is made of, you know, an advanced metal or
32:44
Speaker 3: a ceramic.
32:45
Speaker 4: It was cold to the chuch, so you know, I
32:48
Speaker 4: would lean more towards a metal.
32:50
Speaker 1: You're not allowed to ask questions, no.
32:52
Speaker 3: The only they work on the buddy system, so I
32:55
Speaker 3: can only exchange ideas and talk to Barry. Now this
33:00
Speaker 3: really interferes with science because science is based on free
33:03
Speaker 3: discussion and ideally you get a bunch of guys together,
33:06
Speaker 3: exchange ideas, work on problems, and that's how things move forward.
33:10
Speaker 3: But they're still over the top concerned about security. They
33:14
Speaker 3: split everything off and everybody becomes stagnant. It just destroys
33:22
Speaker 3: any of the progress you can make, or at least
33:24
Speaker 3: makes it go so slow. I think they wind up
33:28
Speaker 3: shooting themselves in the foot.
33:29
Speaker 1: Which is probably why they arrived at this bottleneck that
33:33
Speaker 1: they needed to get this madman with a jet powered
33:36
Speaker 1: Honda come in and see what he could do.
33:38
Speaker 3: I think that was an act of desperation. I think
33:40
Speaker 3: they wanted someone that thinks out of the box and
33:42
Speaker 3: let's just give this guy a try here, because they weren't,
33:45
Speaker 3: and they might have done this four more times since,
33:50
Speaker 3: you know, up to the point in time today, assuming
33:52
Speaker 3: they're still working on this thing.
33:54
Speaker 1: And when you see this craft and you're inside, was
33:58
Speaker 1: there any indication that there was an area that they
34:02
Speaker 1: would use to control it to pilot? Was there a
34:05
Speaker 1: pilot seat?
34:07
Speaker 3: There were three seats they sat around the reactor was
34:10
Speaker 3: in the dead center of it, and then equidistant around
34:14
Speaker 3: there were three seats and that's all. There was a
34:19
Speaker 3: large you would they're not consoles. There are large rectangular
34:23
Speaker 3: objects also spaced equidistant around the center. There's nothing on them.
34:28
Speaker 3: There's no buttons, there's no lights, and the control everything
34:32
Speaker 3: is the same. And directly underneath them, there's three levels
34:38
Speaker 3: in the craft. The main level is that we're talking
34:42
Speaker 3: about directly under that, those are the gravity amplifiers. The
34:46
Speaker 3: big rectangular objects underneath them are the gravity emitters that
34:50
Speaker 3: look like, for lack of a better word, a trash
34:53
Speaker 3: can hanging on a pipe. Three of those and then
34:56
Speaker 3: the top layer. This is just my personal belief if
35:00
Speaker 3: I think that has to do with a navigation or
35:03
Speaker 3: their version of a computer with some planar panels sensor
35:08
Speaker 3: panels around the craft that we would call portholes, but
35:11
Speaker 3: they're not portholes.
35:12
Speaker 4: They're just black areas.
35:14
Speaker 3: And I think that just determines it's you know, position
35:17
Speaker 3: in space. But I was, I physically was in the
35:21
Speaker 3: center section and I stuck my torso in the bottom
35:25
Speaker 3: section and hung upside down so I could see how
35:27
Speaker 3: the gravity amplifiers were positioned.
35:30
Speaker 1: What is they? Roughly? The size of this thing?
35:32
Speaker 3: It's I think it. I don't remember from being there.
35:36
Speaker 3: But after all this stuff was over, I had John Andrews,
35:41
Speaker 3: a guy from the Testers Model Corporation, and you know,
35:43
Speaker 3: we sat down and tried to figure out from what
35:47
Speaker 3: I saw and known sizes of things, and we came
35:51
Speaker 3: up with fifty two feet in diameter. So I think
35:55
Speaker 3: that's yeah.
35:56
Speaker 4: So I think that's a fair reasonable guess.
36:00
Speaker 1: There's nine of them, and you got a brief glimpse
36:02
Speaker 1: at the other ones. How are they different?
36:05
Speaker 3: Oh? They looked completely different. One looked like I called
36:09
Speaker 3: a jello mold, and it looked like a classic jello
36:12
Speaker 3: mold with the rippled sides to it. One was a
36:15
Speaker 3: very flat disc, you know, like uh oh, I don't know,
36:21
Speaker 3: like a straw hat or something like that, that was
36:23
Speaker 3: sitting up on its edge and the thin part of
36:26
Speaker 3: it had it looked like a projectile had been fired
36:29
Speaker 3: through the edge of it. So I don't know if
36:32
Speaker 3: they were attempting to see if the metal could be
36:35
Speaker 3: penetrated or if something or if that's where the thing
36:39
Speaker 3: came from. Maybe it was shot down, But that was
36:42
Speaker 3: the only one where I saw there was, you know,
36:44
Speaker 3: actual physical damage to it.
36:46
Speaker 1: And that one was roughly the same size.
36:49
Speaker 4: They're all, ah, they were kind of too far away
36:51
Speaker 4: to tell.
36:53
Speaker 1: And did there was several teams that were working on
36:56
Speaker 1: the propulsion system, so there was different teams that were
36:59
Speaker 1: working on these different aircrafts. I don't don't know.
37:02
Speaker 4: I could only assume.
37:05
Speaker 1: Now, when you're sitting in this thing and you're looking
37:09
Speaker 1: at this otherworldly craft, your your goal is to try
37:14
Speaker 1: to figure out how this thing functions. Your goals to
37:17
Speaker 1: try to figure out how this reactor. I mean, he
37:20
Speaker 1: would imagine they would give you more time than just
37:22
Speaker 1: one day to check that out.
37:24
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it wasn't one day, right, Yeah, I mean
37:27
Speaker 3: this is Barry was there. I think Barry was sleeping there.
37:31
Speaker 3: I'm sure they had. Now that that isn't weird. I mean, oh,
37:35
Speaker 3: but the tone of pot test range where they work
37:36
Speaker 3: on stealth fighters. You know, you go, I think three
37:40
Speaker 3: weeks on, one week off, and you stay up there too,
37:43
Speaker 3: So it's not weird to stay up with the test site.
37:45
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think he pretty with it, and he
37:48
Speaker 3: acted like he's been up there for a long time.
37:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, but still there.
37:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, who knows you?
37:55
Speaker 1: Do you have contact with this guy? No?
37:57
Speaker 3: Oh no, I wish I did. I kind of thought
37:59
Speaker 3: he was going to come out after I did, and
38:03
Speaker 3: I think I took so much flak and it's so
38:06
Speaker 3: much shit for what went on. I think actually I
38:10
Speaker 3: wound up helping security there and everybody became afraid of,
38:14
Speaker 3: you know, doing or saying anything after that.
38:17
Speaker 1: So what kind of reports did you have to give? Like,
38:20
Speaker 1: so you're not making much progress, right, You're just trying
38:23
Speaker 1: to figure out what this thing is and it seems impossible.
38:25
Speaker 3: So well, we didn't personally make them. I mean we
38:28
Speaker 3: were always there was never a lot of information that
38:32
Speaker 3: we gained. The guy you would call him our supervisor.
38:37
Speaker 3: His name was Dennis Marianni and kind of a military
38:41
Speaker 3: looking guy, and he would routinely pop in, you know,
38:45
Speaker 3: during the day and you know, hey, what's going on, guys,
38:48
Speaker 3: and he would essentially relay enter any information, anything new
38:52
Speaker 3: we came up with. I mean, he was our go
38:54
Speaker 3: between where we presented him the information, then he took
38:58
Speaker 3: it to wherever they were assembling all the data from everybody.
39:02
Speaker 1: Now I assume you're working normal days, like an eight
39:05
Speaker 1: hour day.
39:05
Speaker 3: No, no, no, it was really weird that I would
39:09
Speaker 3: be only called in on certain times in certain days,
39:12
Speaker 3: and they would be weird hours too. Most of the
39:15
Speaker 3: time was later in the evening. I mean, I can
39:17
Speaker 3: get a call at eleven o'clock at night and they'll say,
39:20
Speaker 3: you know, it's now eleven o'clock. By eleven forty five,
39:25
Speaker 3: you need to be at mccaren.
39:26
Speaker 4: Terminal and you know, we'll let you know when we
39:31
Speaker 4: have more information.
39:32
Speaker 1: But what did you do while you were there? If
39:35
Speaker 1: you're looking at this object, this reactor, and you can't
39:40
Speaker 1: figure out what it is or how it works, other
39:42
Speaker 1: than the fact that it works on this element that
39:44
Speaker 1: we don't even know about.
39:46
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean the thing was to what you do.
39:48
Speaker 3: And you know, with anything, if you're trying to analyze it,
39:53
Speaker 3: all you can do is perform tests. And all we
39:56
Speaker 3: did is try and come up with every kind of
39:58
Speaker 3: test we possibly could. I mean, we tested, you know it.
40:03
Speaker 3: It violated a lot of what we thought was impossible
40:07
Speaker 3: to violate. I mean, one of the first laws of thermodynamics.
40:10
Speaker 3: I mean essentially, any machine, any device that operates, always
40:14
Speaker 3: makes extra heat. Nothing works at one hundred percent efficient,
40:19
Speaker 3: even the headphones you're wearing. Anything that takes power, some
40:23
Speaker 3: of that power is going to be converted to heat
40:25
Speaker 3: and it's just wasted. This didn't I mean, we looked
40:29
Speaker 3: at back then we had infrared cameras. They're different today,
40:32
Speaker 3: but back then you had to pour liquid nitrogen into
40:35
Speaker 3: the camera to cool the sensor down and get these
40:39
Speaker 3: infrared images you've seen. But it never got no matter
40:43
Speaker 3: what the load was on the reactor, it never got
40:46
Speaker 3: above ambient temperature, which is impossible. I mean you're, you know,
40:52
Speaker 3: pulling out huge amounts of power and nothing ever gets warm.
40:57
Speaker 3: We tried measuring magnetic fields and was nothing there. So
41:01
Speaker 3: we started playing around with the emission from the emitters,
41:05
Speaker 3: the gravity way of itself, and saw what we could
41:09
Speaker 3: do with it and how it was focused. So we
41:11
Speaker 3: really spent all our time just trying to see what
41:16
Speaker 3: the stuff can do and what we can control.
41:19
Speaker 1: So you were seeing what it could do when you
41:21
Speaker 1: couldn't ever figure out how it was doing it.
41:24
Speaker 3: No, not really, I mean we really could only use
41:28
Speaker 3: a come up with the best guess. Now, I can't
41:32
Speaker 3: say we really that I could absolutely state for certainly
41:37
Speaker 3: or certainty how anything actually worked.
41:40
Speaker 1: Now, how did you know at all how they were
41:44
Speaker 1: piloting it? Because some they were doing some tests where
41:49
Speaker 1: they were having these things fly around in the sky.
41:53
Speaker 1: And this is what gets us deeper into your story.
41:57
Speaker 3: Right, I was out there for one test. Right, In fact,
42:06
Speaker 3: I was in with Barry in the lab and Dennis
42:09
Speaker 3: came in and said, we're about to run the test.
42:12
Speaker 3: Why don't you guys come out, or I think he said, Barry,
42:15
Speaker 3: why don't you come out here and bring Bob with you.
42:19
Speaker 3: We went out there and the craft was already outside
42:23
Speaker 3: the hangar and was just preparing to lift off. Now
42:27
Speaker 3: they were in communication with somebody in the craft.
42:30
Speaker 1: So there's a person in the crowd.
42:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was certainly a person in there. Now it's
42:35
Speaker 3: not a comfortable place to be in because it's small,
42:38
Speaker 3: so the guy has to be sitting on the floor
42:40
Speaker 3: in the middle.
42:41
Speaker 1: My best guest, and this is the same specific craft
42:44
Speaker 1: that you were at, was because you were That was
42:46
Speaker 1: the only craft that you were in.
42:47
Speaker 3: The only one that I touched and worked on. And
42:51
Speaker 3: it it quietly lifted off the ground, which was incredibly
42:54
Speaker 3: impressive to.
42:55
Speaker 1: See quietly or silently what well.
43:00
Speaker 3: Quietly, because it did produced It produced a little corona
43:06
Speaker 3: discharge from the bottom. A corona discharge is kind of
43:09
Speaker 3: a high voltage brush, little bluish glow discharge. As it
43:13
Speaker 3: was lifting off the ground, you could hear a slight
43:15
Speaker 3: hiss sound. Now, as soon as it cleared the ground
43:17
Speaker 3: by about five or ten feet, maybe even less than that,
43:20
Speaker 3: the hissing stopped and the blue god disappeared. So it
43:25
Speaker 3: lifted off quietly and then it hovered silently, if you
43:28
Speaker 3: want to be specific.
43:29
Speaker 1: Wow, So then what kind of maneuvers was it doing?
43:33
Speaker 3: It took for that particular time, it took off, moved
43:37
Speaker 3: a little round around to the left and right and
43:39
Speaker 3: then sat back down the craft itself. They communicated with
43:47
Speaker 3: it with a reg because I saw the guy talking
43:52
Speaker 3: in a regular VHF radio to the person in the craft,
43:56
Speaker 3: and I even saw the frequency that was on the
44:00
Speaker 3: the frequency counter or the communication the transceiver there. But
44:05
Speaker 3: what's weird is he shouldn't be able to communicate with
44:09
Speaker 3: the craft with a radio. The radio the radio wave
44:14
Speaker 3: should bend around the craft. I mean, it shouldn't be possible.
44:17
Speaker 3: Every single thing about these the craft and the way
44:21
Speaker 3: they operated didn't make any sense to us. I mean
44:25
Speaker 3: that's something we talked about for a while after.
44:27
Speaker 1: Why should the frequency bend around the craft?
44:30
Speaker 3: Well, you really have to look at the way the
44:33
Speaker 3: gravity wave comes out of the craft. There's the reactors
44:36
Speaker 3: in the center, and there's a waveguide that goes up
44:39
Speaker 3: to the top. There's actually a small appendage that sticks
44:41
Speaker 3: out at the top of the craft and it produces
44:44
Speaker 3: a heart shaped gravitational distortion around the craft. Now, if
44:47
Speaker 3: the craft is sitting in the air and you walk
44:50
Speaker 3: underneath it and look up, you actually cannot see the craft.
44:56
Speaker 3: The light bends around it. You're bending. Gravity bends light,
45:00
Speaker 3: It bends radio waves. It shouldn't be possible to communicate
45:06
Speaker 3: with a craft that has an envelope around it that's
45:09
Speaker 3: distorting all forms of energy. But they were apparently in contact.
45:14
Speaker 1: With it somehow or another through some unexplained way that
45:18
Speaker 1: they didn't bother explaining to you. So this thing gets up,
45:22
Speaker 1: it just does some very simple maneuvers left right, left, right,
45:24
Speaker 1: goes down. And did they discuss this with you? I
45:29
Speaker 1: mean they said they wanted you to see it.
45:30
Speaker 3: No, they just wanted No, they didn't discuss anything with me.
45:35
Speaker 3: It sat down. We looked around for a bit and
45:37
Speaker 3: Barry said, let's go back. We went back in the lab.
45:39
Speaker 3: All we got to do is see it. Fast forward
45:45
Speaker 3: two some months later, I did have the test flight
45:49
Speaker 3: schedule of the craft. Now they had times they had
45:52
Speaker 3: designated high performance tests. This obviously wasn't one that was
45:57
Speaker 3: a high performance test. The high performance goes above the
46:02
Speaker 3: mountain range and they do much more radical moves with
46:05
Speaker 3: the thing. Look, this is a prized item, and they're
46:09
Speaker 3: not doing anything like taking it out of the atmosphere
46:11
Speaker 3: or flying around to other countries or anything like that.
46:13
Speaker 3: They just play with this thing right over the test site.
46:17
Speaker 3: But they were doing some radical moves with it, and
46:20
Speaker 3: since I had the test flight schedule, statistically the amount
46:26
Speaker 3: of traffic and the surrounding areas on the highway was
46:30
Speaker 3: lowest on Wednesdays. And that's why Dennis told us that
46:34
Speaker 3: all the test flights occurred only on Wednesdays because it'd
46:38
Speaker 3: be the least chance that anyone would see what's going on.
46:41
Speaker 1: And this was before the government had expanded the forbidden
46:46
Speaker 1: territory around Area fifty one and Papoose Lake and all
46:50
Speaker 1: that stuff.
46:50
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I think that occurred after my story came out.
46:55
Speaker 3: Then people started going up on the mountaintops and trying
46:58
Speaker 3: to look down into there, and they kind of freaked
47:01
Speaker 3: out and then did the land grab and pushed everybody back.
47:04
Speaker 3: But yeah, that I think all that occurred long after.
47:08
Speaker 3: I'm great that I came out.
47:10
Speaker 1: So you're working there, and while you're working there, you're
47:14
Speaker 1: under this crazy schedule. Forgive me for explaining your story,
47:18
Speaker 1: but you would get these phone calls, you would have
47:22
Speaker 1: to go to the to the airport at eleven PM,
47:27
Speaker 1: and your wife started thinking that you were having an affair.
47:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, apparently, so now I did give my permission to
47:36
Speaker 3: have you know, as part of the you know, security
47:39
Speaker 3: clearance process, I gave written permission to have the phones
47:44
Speaker 3: monitored and things of that sort, so they weren't doing
47:46
Speaker 3: any covert stuff. They you know, with any Q clearance,
47:51
Speaker 3: which is civilian top secret clearance or military top secret clearance,
47:55
Speaker 3: they go talk to friends and you know, places you've been,
47:59
Speaker 3: make sure you're not connected to foreign countries. But you know,
48:02
Speaker 3: monitoring your phone is nothing unusual. However, they insisted that
48:09
Speaker 3: you know, you don't even talk to your loved one,
48:11
Speaker 3: to your partner, to your wife, whatever about what's going on.
48:14
Speaker 3: So she was essentially in the dark and didn't know
48:17
Speaker 3: the phone was being monitored. Well, part of the security
48:22
Speaker 3: clearance is that not only do you not have any
48:25
Speaker 3: connections to foreign countries and are in a maniac, but
48:28
Speaker 3: you have to have a stable home life too. Well,
48:31
Speaker 3: she started having an affair with a flight instructor. Now
48:35
Speaker 3: they were monitoring this on the phone and they knew
48:38
Speaker 3: it and I didn't, So they stopped me coming in.
48:42
Speaker 3: And their attitude at the time was, we need to
48:46
Speaker 3: see how this is going to play out and if
48:48
Speaker 3: Lazar is going to get a little weird or anything.
48:51
Speaker 3: So let's just you know, hold them off from coming
48:54
Speaker 3: in and you know, see what happens.
48:58
Speaker 1: And they explain this to you what was happening.
49:00
Speaker 3: Well after the fact. Yeah, because time kind of went
49:03
Speaker 3: on and there were guys that were following me around,
49:08
Speaker 3: and I started getting a little concerned, going, well, chit
49:11
Speaker 3: are they booting me out of the project, And if so,
49:16
Speaker 3: they're not just going to let me hang out at
49:18
Speaker 3: home and go get a new job.
49:19
Speaker 4: Knowing what I know.
49:21
Speaker 3: So as time went on, I started getting a little concerned,
49:25
Speaker 3: and I took my closest friends and just kind of
49:28
Speaker 3: got together and I said, hey, remember that job I
49:31
Speaker 3: told you about. This is what's going on, and like,
49:36
Speaker 3: you don't need to take my word for it. Wednesday night,
49:40
Speaker 3: we need to all go out here. I want to
49:41
Speaker 3: show you what's going on. So I took everybody and
49:44
Speaker 3: we went out to remember since I had the test
49:47
Speaker 3: flight schedule, and went outside the base out into the desert,
49:53
Speaker 3: and so everybody could see, you know, one of the
49:55
Speaker 3: high performance tests, and you know, it left quite an
49:58
Speaker 3: imprint on everybody, so they knew I wasn't and.
50:01
Speaker 1: There's videos of these tests, right.
50:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, but remember this is in the it's in in
50:06
Speaker 3: the dark in the eighties of the big monster sized
50:08
Speaker 3: camcorder and you've got, you know, a bright light jumping around.
50:11
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean we did video of it, but
50:14
Speaker 3: there's no by today's standards.
50:16
Speaker 1: It's but is your video specifically available, the video that
50:20
Speaker 1: you took.
50:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, George Knapp has it is?
50:24
Speaker 4: I have no idea.
50:25
Speaker 2: Jeremy, Yeah, I show clips of it in my film.
50:27
Speaker 2: It's it's online and someone did a deep analysis of it.
50:30
Speaker 2: It was interesting to take a look at how.
50:33
Speaker 1: Well this microphone on two face from your face.
50:37
Speaker 2: You know, to see how his video looks now. But
50:40
Speaker 2: as far as video evidence, I mean, we are talking
50:42
Speaker 2: eighties campos, and the most important thing is the human
50:45
Speaker 2: story here. Everybody that he took up there on three
50:48
Speaker 2: separate occasions. They don't all like each other, they don't
50:51
Speaker 2: all talk. They all agree on one thing. They saw
50:54
Speaker 2: something that night at the exact point in time and
50:56
Speaker 2: space that Bob Azar said, And remember this is seventeen fifteen.
51:00
Speaker 2: To him, I was south of area fifty one. No
51:02
Speaker 2: one even knew really about area fifty one. We're talking
51:04
Speaker 2: Pappoos Lake. And they all agree they saw something that
51:07
Speaker 2: night they had never seen before and they've never seen
51:10
Speaker 2: since right when he said it. So that's one of
51:12
Speaker 2: like the six things where I'm like, how did he know?
51:15
Speaker 2: You can dismiss him. I tried to dismiss it, but
51:18
Speaker 2: some things we can't get around, and there's about five
51:20
Speaker 2: or six of them. How did he know about this?
51:22
Speaker 1: If Jamie wants to find that video right now, what
51:24
Speaker 1: would he look in there?
51:25
Speaker 2: Bob Bazaar UFO S four Area fifty one just kind
51:31
Speaker 2: of like that. So it's like the S for UFO
51:34
Speaker 2: video Bob Blazaar and a guy does an analysis, but
51:37
Speaker 2: you're analyzing these eighties videos from the very beginning. Bob
51:42
Speaker 2: never said I have proof of my story and I'm
51:45
Speaker 2: gonna tell the world. He said at the very beginning,
51:48
Speaker 2: I cannot prove my story. That's not why I'm telling this.
51:51
Speaker 2: George Knapp convinced him to tell people, and he lived
51:55
Speaker 2: through it, and I didn't believe it either until I
51:57
Speaker 2: talked with George.
51:59
Speaker 1: Okay, so you film these this test flight, one test fight,
52:05
Speaker 1: and then you get caught.
52:06
Speaker 3: Actually it was I think the third time because we
52:11
Speaker 3: went out there. The first time. Everybody saw it. Everybody
52:15
Speaker 3: was amazed because it did some radical maneuvers, and you know,
52:19
Speaker 3: everybody had a.
52:20
Speaker 1: Lot maneuvers that I've seen. I've seen the video. It
52:22
Speaker 1: doesn't I don't think there's something we have now that
52:25
Speaker 1: does that. No, in terms of like a human piloted craft,
52:29
Speaker 1: and I don't know obviously with the government.
52:31
Speaker 3: No, it's it's impossible. Nothing can move like that. And
52:34
Speaker 3: remember we didn't start filming from the very beginning, you know,
52:39
Speaker 3: we were waiting for something, you know, to happen. The
52:41
Speaker 3: craft took off and it came flying at us, stopped,
52:44
Speaker 3: you know, turned at a riangle, flew back, and then
52:46
Speaker 3: you know, after it did some you know, amazing stuff
52:49
Speaker 3: to get the camera, and then we started filming. So
52:52
Speaker 3: it doesn't have all of it on there, it just
52:54
Speaker 3: has some The.
52:55
Speaker 1: Way I describe it to my friends and they said,
52:56
Speaker 1: what is like, I said, take a laser pointer and
52:59
Speaker 1: then have a wall, and then move it around the
53:01
Speaker 1: wall like you know, how it moves around the wall.
53:03
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like it has anything to do with
53:05
Speaker 1: inertia or physics or it's not impeded in any way
53:08
Speaker 1: by the atmosphere. Yeah, that's what it looked like.
53:11
Speaker 3: You're essentially separated from reality as crazy as that sounds.
53:15
Speaker 3: With being in case it's own gravitational envelope, inertia is
53:21
Speaker 3: not going to affect it.
53:22
Speaker 4: And you know this is.
53:25
Speaker 3: This is how some of those recent sightings are. Commander
53:27
Speaker 3: David Fraverer, I'm sure you've heard of the tikback UFO.
53:31
Speaker 3: I mean, he describes exactly that the thing operates exactly
53:35
Speaker 3: the way I was describing. That's why he was interested
53:38
Speaker 3: to talk to me. But we saw this, and you know,
53:44
Speaker 3: on the way home, it's like, hey, we got away
53:46
Speaker 3: with it. We should try it again the next test
53:48
Speaker 3: flight date. So this became a thing to do. And
53:51
Speaker 3: I think it was on the third time that we
53:55
Speaker 3: got caught. I mean we started becoming a little careless.
53:58
Speaker 3: I think we took a motor home them out there,
54:01
Speaker 3: you know, I mean it was like the stupidest thing
54:03
Speaker 3: you could tailgating. Yeah, it was ridiculous.
54:07
Speaker 1: And again you're in your twenties.
54:09
Speaker 3: Yeah.
54:09
Speaker 4: And you know what was funny was.
54:13
Speaker 3: We went out there and my friend Geene Huff and
54:16
Speaker 3: I were leaning on the front of a vehicle and
54:21
Speaker 3: just for some reason we just started talking chit like, well,
54:26
Speaker 3: I hope they realized that I don't remember what we're saying,
54:30
Speaker 3: but you know that something about attacking the base or
54:35
Speaker 3: something along those lines and stealing the craft or something
54:38
Speaker 3: like that. And then about twenty feet in front of us,
54:43
Speaker 3: we see a little green light fall on the ground
54:46
Speaker 3: and roll to us, and unbeknownst to us, now it's
54:49
Speaker 3: pitch black. You can't see your hand in front of
54:51
Speaker 3: your face. There were a bunch of guards standing right
54:54
Speaker 3: out there and they had a night vision scope where
54:56
Speaker 3: they were like from here to the wall, looking at us,
54:59
Speaker 3: listening to us, and the guy dropped it and the
55:01
Speaker 3: scope rolled over to us and you could see the
55:02
Speaker 3: green screen. You know, we turned the lights on and
55:06
Speaker 3: all these guys are there, So it was uh, whoa, yeah. Yeah,
55:10
Speaker 3: So we did incredibly stupid stuff and got caught, as
55:13
Speaker 3: we should have, because.
55:13
Speaker 1: So when they catch you and they bring you in,
55:15
Speaker 1: then what happens.
55:16
Speaker 3: Well, I went in for debriefing the following day. I
55:20
Speaker 3: went to Indian Spring's Air Force Base, which is kind
55:23
Speaker 3: of a defunct base that they used to use at
55:26
Speaker 3: the nuclear test site. And this is when they brought
55:30
Speaker 3: out the transcript of the phone call with my wife,
55:36
Speaker 3: and you know, they sat me down and we said
55:39
Speaker 3: you know, when we meant to keep the secret, we
55:41
Speaker 3: meant you can't tell your friends, right, you know, and
55:44
Speaker 3: it just being sarcastic and China, and then they got
55:48
Speaker 3: real serious. But this is where they you know, took
55:53
Speaker 3: the transcript out and were reading me what my wife
55:58
Speaker 3: and you know, our friend and we're talking about.
56:01
Speaker 4: And it was a hard time.
56:04
Speaker 1: So what happens from there? What do they do with you?
56:09
Speaker 1: Why don't they arrest you?
56:10
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know why. I'm not sure
56:13
Speaker 3: they exactly they knew what to do, but they did
56:17
Speaker 3: let me go that night and I went home and
56:21
Speaker 3: that this is kind of when the most stressful part started.
56:24
Speaker 1: Because you're realizing that you're being monitored.
56:26
Speaker 3: Yeah now, so yeah, now I know not only am
56:28
Speaker 3: I being monitored, but now I know I'm in trouble.
56:31
Speaker 3: And it wasn't a short time after that that I contacted.
56:35
Speaker 3: You know, at that time, the only investigative reporter I
56:38
Speaker 3: had heard of in Las Vegas was George Knapp, and
56:42
Speaker 3: you know, told him some of the story because I
56:44
Speaker 3: had no idea what the hell was going to happen
56:46
Speaker 3: at that point.
56:47
Speaker 1: So George Knapp tries to dissect your story, tries to
56:52
Speaker 1: find holes in it, tells it, puts it online, and
56:56
Speaker 1: makes everybody aware of it. And that's how I found
56:57
Speaker 1: out about it.
56:58
Speaker 4: Yeah. To make a long story.
57:00
Speaker 1: Short, what happens? Yeah, to really make a long story short,
57:03
Speaker 1: what happens from there on? I mean, do they contact
57:06
Speaker 1: you and say, hey, Bob, it's probably a good idea.
57:08
Speaker 1: If you shut up, let me try to label you
57:14
Speaker 1: as crazy? Was there.
57:17
Speaker 4: There?
57:18
Speaker 1: Boy?
57:18
Speaker 3: There were a lot of things that happened. You know
57:21
Speaker 3: between that point, I'm leaving out a lot of stuff.
57:26
Speaker 3: To fill in the story, we'd have to go back
57:29
Speaker 3: to Los Alamos and and well, I really don't want
57:34
Speaker 3: to talk about that, the.
57:37
Speaker 1: Top secret weapons stuff that you were working on.
57:41
Speaker 3: No, I'm talking about the one fifteen. Well, I don't know.
57:47
Speaker 3: I have to think about how I.
57:49
Speaker 1: What is the problem.
57:53
Speaker 3: I don't want to get myself into more trouble by
57:55
Speaker 3: admitting something, so I just have to dance around a
57:59
Speaker 3: couple He.
58:00
Speaker 2: Was greted just during the filming at the.
58:02
Speaker 1: Movie people thought the movie's great, by the way, thanks Joe,
58:04
Speaker 1: And it's on Netflix right now if anybody wants to
58:07
Speaker 1: check it out. And if you're one of those people,
58:09
Speaker 1: like me, who you know, I've always loved the idea
58:13
Speaker 1: of UFOs. I became extremely weary talking to people who
58:17
Speaker 1: are UFO believers and UFO fanatics because there's so many
58:20
Speaker 1: of them that are full of shit, and not just
58:22
Speaker 1: full of shit, they're they're childishly delirious, like the way
58:27
Speaker 1: they talk about things that I mean, there's so many
58:29
Speaker 1: people that are that I'm in contact. They reach me
58:33
Speaker 1: in the night and they explain to me what we're
58:35
Speaker 1: doing to the ocean is wrong, and like You're like.
58:38
Speaker 3: Okay, this is one of the reasons I didn't want
58:40
Speaker 3: to do the show. Sure, well no, it's no yeah,
58:44
Speaker 3: well it's I mean, it's no joke. We've had people
58:47
Speaker 3: literally camp out on our front lawn, and you know,
58:52
Speaker 3: in some ways I can relate to some of these people.
58:54
Speaker 3: You know, maybe some of them did really have some
58:56
Speaker 3: kind of experience or saw something and all their friends
58:59
Speaker 3: think they're crazy. But hey, now there's this guy I
59:01
Speaker 3: heard on the radio, and at least he knows I'm
59:05
Speaker 3: not full of shit, so I gotta talk to him.
59:08
Speaker 3: And so most of the correspondence I get are people
59:11
Speaker 3: trying to get a hold of me, going, Bob, you
59:13
Speaker 3: got to listen to me. I'm coming to talk to you.
59:16
Speaker 3: You know, I'm driving from Oklahoma or whatever. But some
59:20
Speaker 3: of them are just fucking batshit crazy and they're they're frightening.
59:24
Speaker 1: There's a lot of schizophrenics that are involved in the
59:27
Speaker 1: conspiracy world. There's a lot of people that have real issues.
59:30
Speaker 2: Joe. It would be a disservice to your audience to
59:33
Speaker 2: not say that we have to look at what's going
59:37
Speaker 2: on now and understand. I've heard on your show a
59:39
Speaker 2: bunch of stuff about what's going on now, and to
59:42
Speaker 2: not really understand what's going on now. You can't see
59:46
Speaker 2: Bob's story in the correct light after thirty years, and
59:49
Speaker 2: at some point we should just touch upon that. The
59:53
Speaker 2: biggest being that things like the Tic tac Ufo case
59:57
Speaker 2: that came out. I've heard people even on the show say,
1:00:00
Speaker 2: or there's a glitch in the radar. That's a data
1:00:02
Speaker 2: poor perspective. You just don't know yet what's really going on.
1:00:06
Speaker 2: Command of Fravor. I was able to get the interview
1:00:08
Speaker 2: with him, to talk with him way before it became public.
1:00:11
Speaker 2: I got that from him. He saw it, other pilots
1:00:15
Speaker 2: saw it. This is a big thing that's going on
1:00:17
Speaker 2: right now. They had more settings on the East coast recently,
1:00:21
Speaker 2: cubes with spherical ores. These are not aerodynamic, and these
1:00:25
Speaker 2: are the people we trust to defend us on nine
1:00:26
Speaker 2: to eleven. Commander Favor protected Los Angeles on nine to eleven,
1:00:30
Speaker 2: So we trust them, but they're not trained observers. Radar
1:00:34
Speaker 2: individuals see these things. And the big one just to
1:00:37
Speaker 2: throw it down, so we can consider a story a
1:00:38
Speaker 2: little differently, there's more depth to it. The big one
1:00:41
Speaker 2: is the United States government has admitted that they have
1:00:44
Speaker 2: been continuously studying the UFO phenomenon. That program was called
1:00:49
Speaker 2: a TIP Advanced ERAS or sorry, was called AWSAP. That
1:00:54
Speaker 2: that's the mother program. George Knapp got that out. They
1:00:57
Speaker 2: announced it the New York Times about a TIP but
1:01:00
Speaker 2: AWSAP these acronyms AWSAP Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Applications Program.
1:01:05
Speaker 2: Who cares? That was the mother program. So they've admitted
1:01:08
Speaker 2: we didn't stop studying UFOs in nineteen sixty nine with
1:01:10
Speaker 2: Project Bluebook. We don't think it's crazy. We actually want
1:01:13
Speaker 2: to reverse engineer the technology. That's why on your other
1:01:16
Speaker 2: show he said, what's this aav thing? It's like they're
1:01:18
Speaker 2: making up another UFO name. Well, hold on, there's a
1:01:20
Speaker 2: reason because in the documents, the DIA documents that George
1:01:24
Speaker 2: n App released that everybody said was faked till now
1:01:27
Speaker 2: they know is real, they call them AAV's, which is
1:01:31
Speaker 2: advanced aerospace vehicles. People are getting the acronyms wrong. So
1:01:35
Speaker 2: the reason for the terminology change is so that we
1:01:38
Speaker 2: can mimic what we're reading in the DIA documents. People
1:01:41
Speaker 2: can look for that now. So they changed the names
1:01:44
Speaker 2: to get people away from UFO or UAP, even like
1:01:46
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton said on air, right.
1:01:49
Speaker 1: So what are you talking about? Hillary?
1:01:51
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton informed the public on Jimmy Kimmel, Oh, Jimmy,
1:01:56
Speaker 2: we don't call them UFOs anymore. We call them uaaps
1:01:59
Speaker 2: on a identified aerial phenomenon. Right, So she kind of
1:02:03
Speaker 2: was giving the Clintons are very into the UFO topic,
1:02:06
Speaker 2: Senator Reid, you know, he's done a lot for the subject,
1:02:09
Speaker 2: the study of it. Right, So she informed the public
1:02:13
Speaker 2: so they could look for the right term. So these
1:02:15
Speaker 2: terms are important because the DA in those documents, they've
1:02:19
Speaker 2: been calling them AAV's for quite some time now.
1:02:21
Speaker 1: And they changed the name to anomalous.
1:02:24
Speaker 2: No, that's kind of a misnom so they always mess
1:02:29
Speaker 2: around with things. But it's actually advanced.
1:02:31
Speaker 1: Right, they're describing it in the news. They were calling
1:02:34
Speaker 1: it anomalous totally.
1:02:35
Speaker 2: Vehicle totally and that's cool. They were also saying anomalous
1:02:38
Speaker 2: aerospace threats aat right, because they want the sense of
1:02:42
Speaker 2: a threat. So my point is, all of if people
1:02:45
Speaker 2: don't know this now and they think this stuff is fantasy,
1:02:48
Speaker 2: this part of it, that we're studying it, that we
1:02:50
Speaker 2: take it seriously, we're spending money on it, and that
1:02:53
Speaker 2: we're getting great data from visual pilots to radar. That's
1:02:57
Speaker 2: why we know it's aerospace. They dropped from eighty thousand feet,
1:03:00
Speaker 2: but guess what, that's the top scope of the spy
1:03:02
Speaker 2: one radar is eighty thousand feet, so the radar system
1:03:05
Speaker 2: they were using it was coming from above that. So
1:03:08
Speaker 2: my point is this, if you don't understand that this
1:03:12
Speaker 2: is happening, you're just behind the curve because you don't
1:03:15
Speaker 2: have the information because of the stigma that you're talking about.
1:03:19
Speaker 2: I saw you get totally upset with the UFO topic.
1:03:21
Speaker 2: I met you first. When you get totally upset with
1:03:23
Speaker 2: the UFO topic, it's the people when when you're doing
1:03:27
Speaker 2: your I'm sorry man, when you're doing your show. You
1:03:30
Speaker 2: know the jor Dan questions everything I could see how
1:03:35
Speaker 2: how frustrating is trust me, I have been frustrated to
1:03:38
Speaker 2: how luckily my mentor is George Knapp and he's taught
1:03:40
Speaker 2: me the pitfalls as I went through it. My whole
1:03:43
Speaker 2: point in this rant right here is just that we
1:03:46
Speaker 2: have to now look at Bob's story, but knowing the facts,
1:03:50
Speaker 2: not someone saying it's a bird, it's a plane, it's
1:03:53
Speaker 2: a glitch. They're not. And so if you don't know that,
1:03:56
Speaker 2: you just don't have the information yet.
1:03:58
Speaker 1: Not just that knowing the facts as we know him
1:03:59
Speaker 1: toowenty nineteen, not in nineteen eighty eight.
1:04:02
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and so what is he said that has come true?
1:04:06
Speaker 2: He's totally unimpressed with it?
1:04:08
Speaker 1: Right?
1:04:08
Speaker 2: What has he said this come true? So I was like, Bob,
1:04:11
Speaker 2: they've announced gravity as a wave. You were right, man,
1:04:14
Speaker 2: You're vindicated. And he looks at me and he's like, well,
1:04:17
Speaker 2: if you think about it, Jeremy, I had like a
1:04:18
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty chance. He was not very impressed.
1:04:22
Speaker 1: Right, when did they announce gravity as a wave?
1:04:25
Speaker 2: So they detected in a sense they detected gravity waves.
1:04:28
Speaker 1: Now who is they?
1:04:30
Speaker 2: You might know more. There's two black holes that were
1:04:32
Speaker 2: colliding and that's how they were able to detect.
1:04:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, somebody Bill.
1:04:35
Speaker 4: I don't know which group it was or what part
1:04:37
Speaker 4: of the government.
1:04:38
Speaker 2: That's what Google's for.
1:04:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they, you know, built a gigantic gravity wave
1:04:44
Speaker 3: detector and pretty much detected that.
1:04:48
Speaker 1: There are such things as first observation of gravitational waves.
1:04:53
Speaker 1: It says it was in twenty sixteen. Okay, the first
1:04:57
Speaker 1: observation of gravitational waves was made on fourteen September twenty fifteen,
1:05:01
Speaker 1: as announced by the l Igo and Virgo collaborators on
1:05:05
Speaker 1: the eleventh of February twenty sixteen. Previously, gravitational waves had
1:05:10
Speaker 1: only been inferred indirectly via their effect on the timing
1:05:14
Speaker 1: of pulsars and binary star systems.
1:05:16
Speaker 2: Don dun dum.
1:05:18
Speaker 1: The waveform connected by both Ligo LGO observatories matched to
1:05:24
Speaker 1: predictions of general relativity for Gravit for a gravitational wave
1:05:32
Speaker 1: emanating from the inwards. I'm trying to get this from
1:05:35
Speaker 1: the inward spiral and merger of a pair of black
1:05:39
Speaker 1: holes around thirty six and twenty nine solar masses and
1:05:42
Speaker 1: the subsequent ring down of the single resulting black hole.
1:05:47
Speaker 3: Well that I mean, yes, no, he was. In the eighties,
1:05:51
Speaker 3: the predominant theory was gravity is produced by gravitons, you know,
1:05:55
Speaker 3: part of theoretical part theoretical particles, but they're not they're waves,
1:06:00
Speaker 3: they're not particles.
1:06:01
Speaker 1: And so the thought is that the way we experience gravity,
1:06:05
Speaker 1: it's based on mass, which is why the Moon, which
1:06:09
Speaker 1: is roughly one quarter the size of the Earth, has
1:06:12
Speaker 1: one six of the Earth's gravity. So there's some sort
1:06:14
Speaker 1: of a computation you can make based on mass.
1:06:16
Speaker 3: Right, And remember, we can observe the effects of gravity,
1:06:21
Speaker 3: but we have no idea what it is. All we
1:06:25
Speaker 3: can do is observe it, and we can't make it.
1:06:27
Speaker 3: The only way you can make gravity is just put
1:06:29
Speaker 3: more mass together, and it's just a product of gravity.
1:06:32
Speaker 3: But if you can make if you have a machine
1:06:35
Speaker 3: that makes gravity, you can pretty much do anything. You
1:06:39
Speaker 3: can affect time, you can have force fields, all that
1:06:42
Speaker 3: stuff that's in science fiction becomes reality if you have
1:06:46
Speaker 3: a machine that can make gravity. And what we worked
1:06:49
Speaker 3: on in the desert was a machine that makes gravity.
1:06:53
Speaker 1: I love your analogy of dropping off a small nuclear
1:06:56
Speaker 1: reactor to the Victorian era. I love that that a
1:06:59
Speaker 1: noun because back then that was impossible, that was magic.
1:07:05
Speaker 1: What you're talking about here, the fact that they just
1:07:08
Speaker 1: discovered this four years ago, that this is a wave.
1:07:11
Speaker 1: We're as much as we know and as impressed as
1:07:14
Speaker 1: we are as we should be with how much more
1:07:18
Speaker 1: technologically advanced we are than every other creature on this planet.
1:07:21
Speaker 1: We're still in many ways in the adolescence of technological innovation.
1:07:25
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely if even adolescence.
1:07:29
Speaker 1: And when you're talking about this binary star system and
1:07:33
Speaker 1: Zeta Reticuli and who knows how much longer these things
1:07:37
Speaker 1: have been around than us, Who knows what their evolutionary
1:07:40
Speaker 1: cycle has been. Who knows what I mean? We might
1:07:43
Speaker 1: be talking about something that's a million years more advanced
1:07:45
Speaker 1: than us.
1:07:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it could easily be. Well, I'm not in
1:07:50
Speaker 3: believe it or not. I'm not into UFOs. I don't
1:07:53
Speaker 3: follow the stories or you know, even after your experiences. No,
1:07:57
Speaker 3: I'm fascinated with the technology and it really it irks me,
1:08:01
Speaker 3: like every night I go to sleep that you know,
1:08:03
Speaker 3: I don't that it was my own doing essentially that
1:08:09
Speaker 3: that prevented me from continuing on in the in the project.
1:08:12
Speaker 3: I mean, it's that to be on that cutting edge
1:08:15
Speaker 3: of technology is so alluring to me. But you know,
1:08:21
Speaker 3: by the same token, I don't really care that there's
1:08:23
Speaker 3: aliens or where they come from. I mean, the prize
1:08:26
Speaker 3: is the technology, and that's what I'm fascinated by. But
1:08:29
Speaker 3: so I don't listen to UFO stories and that sort
1:08:31
Speaker 3: of thing. But George Knapp is I mean, he's the
1:08:34
Speaker 3: guy that has the contacts and tries to thread everything together.
1:08:38
Speaker 3: And what he recently told me is he found I
1:08:42
Speaker 3: don't know it's either documentation or people that he spoke to.
1:08:45
Speaker 3: It's at the existence of this project, the project that
1:08:48
Speaker 3: I was on. It's something that they seem to take
1:08:53
Speaker 3: out every eight or ten years.
1:08:55
Speaker 2: So that's a very specific memo, and this is actually
1:08:58
Speaker 2: this is the first time I'll be very clear with
1:09:00
Speaker 2: people about it. It's a big topic of conversation right now.
1:09:03
Speaker 2: It's called the Wilson memo. You can look it up.
1:09:06
Speaker 2: Admiral Wilson met with a scientist who's actually was featured
1:09:10
Speaker 2: in one of my films. Everybody has been debating whether
1:09:13
Speaker 2: or not this document of a conversation with an sitting
1:09:18
Speaker 2: Admiral at the time is a real document. It's an
1:09:21
Speaker 2: actual conversation that happened. And this document is where everybody
1:09:24
Speaker 2: wants to know. The world is going crazy right now
1:09:26
Speaker 2: in the UFO world. I'll tell you straight up, right now,
1:09:29
Speaker 2: I'm in the position to know. And it is a
1:09:32
Speaker 2: real document that it is real. So the conversation you
1:09:36
Speaker 2: read in that, that conversation was had. I can't attest
1:09:39
Speaker 2: to everything.
1:09:40
Speaker 1: You're not being very clear.
1:09:41
Speaker 2: Sure, please, no problem. So there was a document this
1:09:45
Speaker 2: is circulating right now that is really big. It's going
1:09:48
Speaker 2: around everywhere. People are asking what is this document? It's
1:09:51
Speaker 2: called the Wilson memos. What how you can find it
1:09:53
Speaker 2: online or the Wilson leak.
1:09:56
Speaker 1: There it is. Jimmy's got it, the Wilson Memorandum use
1:09:59
Speaker 1: of human No no, no, no, no, that's not it. Yeah.
1:10:03
Speaker 2: So Admiral Wilson meets with this scientist and they have
1:10:08
Speaker 2: this discussion oddly enough at special Projects at EG and G.
1:10:11
Speaker 2: And if I remember the document is from two thousand
1:10:13
Speaker 2: and one, I'm telling everybody right now it's real. And
1:10:16
Speaker 2: we'll see. My history is pretty good with like saying
1:10:18
Speaker 2: if something's.
1:10:19
Speaker 1: Real or not.
1:10:19
Speaker 2: Right. So here we go. The document comes out. They
1:10:22
Speaker 2: meet at EG and G Special Projects in nineteen eighty nine,
1:10:26
Speaker 2: they stumble into a problem. This happens, they put the
1:10:30
Speaker 2: technology away, and then they bring it back out and
1:10:33
Speaker 2: see if material science has caught up and if they
1:10:36
Speaker 2: can make any progress. So this document kind of talks
1:10:39
Speaker 2: about this process. The big thing I get from it,
1:10:41
Speaker 2: and a lot of it's vindicating to Bob. And one
1:10:44
Speaker 2: of the things that's vindicating besides the EG and G
1:10:46
Speaker 2: thing is that private industry. So this guy's an admiral
1:10:50
Speaker 2: and he says, I found out about your SAP, your
1:10:53
Speaker 2: special Access program. I need to know about it. And
1:10:57
Speaker 2: he's going to a private part of industry and he
1:11:00
Speaker 2: has denied access, and he says, you know, I should
1:11:04
Speaker 2: be running this program, and they were able to deny
1:11:07
Speaker 2: him access. So I think the takeaway here is check
1:11:11
Speaker 2: it out. I'm telling you that that is an actual
1:11:13
Speaker 2: correct That is a leak. Now everything's said in that document.
1:11:17
Speaker 2: I don't know what are you talking about. What is
1:11:18
Speaker 2: said in that document specific it's between a scientist and
1:11:22
Speaker 2: an admiral that are sitting and they're having a meeting
1:11:25
Speaker 2: and they're talking about the search for the UFO subject
1:11:29
Speaker 2: the search to get special access program access to all
1:11:33
Speaker 2: of these different things like reverse engineering programs. So in
1:11:38
Speaker 2: this document they talk about it. I believe that this
1:11:42
Speaker 2: document that the person that went was employed by Robert Bigelow.
1:11:45
Speaker 2: You know, one of the guys has a couple of
1:11:46
Speaker 2: orbiting satellites and all that stuff.
1:11:48
Speaker 1: Who's the guy owned Skinwalker Ranch?
1:11:50
Speaker 2: No, he's not. He was the guy the owned Skinwalker Okay, yeah,
1:11:54
Speaker 2: he used to own it. There's a new owner and
1:11:56
Speaker 2: I interview him for my other film. But there's a
1:11:59
Speaker 2: new owner and you'll be hearing a lot more about
1:12:01
Speaker 2: that soon. But like it'll just there's there's stuff that
1:12:05
Speaker 2: you'll be hearing about Skinwalker around soon because there's a
1:12:07
Speaker 2: new owner. Anyway, the whole point of this, you know
1:12:10
Speaker 2: insertion here is just that that document kind of validates
1:12:15
Speaker 2: a lot of this idea. Bob just said that they
1:12:17
Speaker 2: make a little progress, then they can't go anywhere. They
1:12:20
Speaker 2: tuck it away, and then they bring it back out,
1:12:23
Speaker 2: you know, ten years later and start working on it.
1:12:26
Speaker 2: What is the limiting factor? I think Bob should speak
1:12:28
Speaker 2: on this. But it's the material science.
1:12:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's early where physics is so I can I
1:12:33
Speaker 3: can see them doing that. I mean, I didn't have
1:12:36
Speaker 3: any information on that, but I think what you know
1:12:40
Speaker 3: George uncovered is probably accurate. That you know, we try
1:12:44
Speaker 3: and do what we can and once we reach a
1:12:46
Speaker 3: roadblock on we really can't figure it out. It's just
1:12:50
Speaker 3: freaking wait, put the thing away, wait for science to
1:12:53
Speaker 3: catch up, and you know, a decade later, let's take
1:12:55
Speaker 3: the project out again and see all right, now where
1:12:58
Speaker 3: can we go.
1:12:59
Speaker 1: But there's got to be someone who remains informed, right,
1:13:02
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, You've got your scientists like you and Barry,
1:13:05
Speaker 1: you got your people that you compartmentalize, you got these
1:13:07
Speaker 1: people work on it.
1:13:08
Speaker 3: There has to be some people, right that know everything.
1:13:11
Speaker 1: You've got security, and then someone's going to be in
1:13:14
Speaker 1: the outside saying, hey, we need people to guard this building.
1:13:17
Speaker 1: Don't let anybody in for ten years.
1:13:19
Speaker 3: I think a lot of that is private industry, and
1:13:22
Speaker 3: I think that's how they keep it. Yeah, I think
1:13:23
Speaker 3: that's how they literate because the government is just so leaky.
1:13:27
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of what they're doing.
1:13:29
Speaker 2: That's what the document kind of proves. You just articulated
1:13:32
Speaker 2: that that it isn't control of private industry.
1:13:34
Speaker 1: What private industry, some aerospace company something I don't know.
1:13:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, they wouldn't they would. The guy with the admiral
1:13:40
Speaker 2: wouldn't name it in the car, right in the conversation.
1:13:43
Speaker 1: So they still have these things, supposedly.
1:13:49
Speaker 3: I would guess. I mean, I don't have any information on.
1:13:51
Speaker 1: Have you ever asked anyone that has any inkling of
1:13:56
Speaker 1: any idea of where they got them or how they
1:13:59
Speaker 1: got them? Now?
1:14:00
Speaker 3: But something must have been said to me from Barry,
1:14:07
Speaker 3: but it was just too long ago and I can't
1:14:09
Speaker 3: quite remember.
1:14:10
Speaker 4: What was said, but it.
1:14:12
Speaker 3: It just left a seat in my mind. I think
1:14:14
Speaker 3: at least one of them was part of an archaeological dig,
1:14:18
Speaker 3: so it's old something. At least one of them is old.
1:14:23
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was the one I worked on,
1:14:24
Speaker 3: but I remember something to do with.
1:14:26
Speaker 4: An archaeological dig. Whoa, So that's uh.
1:14:30
Speaker 3: That means it's not just old, it's ancient.
1:14:32
Speaker 1: It'll be a great Steven Spielberg movie.
1:14:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, as all of it would.
1:14:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, that trimmed me out when he said that for
1:14:39
Speaker 2: the first time.
1:14:40
Speaker 1: No, that's a freak out right. There a couple of
1:14:43
Speaker 1: dudes with some brushes looking for a tyrannosaurs, wreck bone
1:14:46
Speaker 1: and it metal?
1:14:47
Speaker 2: And when did they find it? You know that they
1:14:49
Speaker 2: have nine of them?
1:14:50
Speaker 3: Well, and how could we have not heard about that?
1:14:53
Speaker 3: What about the guys with the brushes? How could you
1:14:56
Speaker 3: uncover something like that?
1:14:57
Speaker 2: And Joe's newspaper at home? Does I mean? And they
1:15:00
Speaker 2: said it on that first.
1:15:01
Speaker 1: Day Oswell ye yeah, yeah when you told me yea, yeah,
1:15:03
Speaker 1: I have a cover. What is this here? James? Is
1:15:06
Speaker 1: the document but it had to do some digging to
1:15:08
Speaker 1: find it.
1:15:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just kind of yeah. So this is where
1:15:11
Speaker 2: they meet it E. G and G. And this is
1:15:12
Speaker 2: Admiral Wilson. And there's a lot more coming out now.
1:15:14
Speaker 2: I want to be clear, George didn't put this out.
1:15:17
Speaker 2: He didn't leak this out to anybity. This is I
1:15:20
Speaker 2: can tell.
1:15:20
Speaker 1: You how I recorded this conversation.
1:15:23
Speaker 2: So this was an employee of at the time Robert Bigelow.
1:15:26
Speaker 1: And this is in two thousand and two.
1:15:27
Speaker 2: Right, do you remember when he had that government contract
1:15:29
Speaker 2: called AWSAP the world all knows about now, and he
1:15:32
Speaker 2: had knids that studied the ranch that twenty two million.
1:15:34
Speaker 2: Everybody is saying it was for a tip Advanced Aerospace
1:15:38
Speaker 2: Threat Identification program. The twenty two million dollars was for
1:15:42
Speaker 2: AWSAP that was pushed through through Congress. Three congressmen, right,
1:15:46
Speaker 2: an astronaut, it was pushed through and that's what that
1:15:50
Speaker 2: twenty two million dollars. By the way, they spend more
1:15:52
Speaker 2: money on viagra every year than they do study in UFOs.
1:15:55
Speaker 2: If it was just this program, which I think is funny,
1:15:57
Speaker 2: probably more money from they probably do well, you never
1:16:01
Speaker 2: know how it seeds into population. But anyway, this program,
1:16:05
Speaker 2: this is what was the mother program, so it got
1:16:08
Speaker 2: the twenty two million, and really it was to study
1:16:10
Speaker 2: Skinwalker Ranch. Oddly enough, that twenty two million all was
1:16:13
Speaker 2: inspired by the phenomenon they were seen at Skinwalker Ranch
1:16:16
Speaker 2: because the scientists they're seeing vehicles come through like a
1:16:21
Speaker 2: space in the sky.
1:16:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, we went there. I went through the docu. Yeah,
1:16:25
Speaker 1: we interviewed a bunch of people that seemed full of shit,
1:16:28
Speaker 1: but a couple that didn't. This is very very interesting.
1:16:31
Speaker 2: Totally, and there's but if you look, I spent a
1:16:33
Speaker 2: lot of time in the area. I'm not talking about
1:16:35
Speaker 2: those stories. I'm saying there were scientists hired by the
1:16:38
Speaker 2: government right through Big Low to study the ranch because
1:16:41
Speaker 2: they thought it was important, and you know whatever, whatever
1:16:44
Speaker 2: the point is that twenty two million was to study that.
1:16:46
Speaker 2: Then we have a tip which is like an auxiliary
1:16:49
Speaker 2: kind of program of military settings like Commander Fravers and
1:16:52
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. This document is just one of
1:16:55
Speaker 2: those things that has now come forward that through the
1:16:58
Speaker 2: big low studies it was got funded, and then it
1:17:01
Speaker 2: was personally funded and then government funded. It's just one
1:17:05
Speaker 2: of those things that kind of shakes you because you
1:17:07
Speaker 2: got this military guy who can't get access because of
1:17:11
Speaker 2: the private industry that's holding these non terrestrial materials that
1:17:16
Speaker 2: they can't study it. So that's the claim, right now,
1:17:19
Speaker 2: give it some time, let people dig more into this.
1:17:23
Speaker 2: It's fascinating, man.
1:17:24
Speaker 1: So you are essentially you're kicked out right, You're out
1:17:32
Speaker 1: of this program. You can't work with these crafts anymore.
1:17:36
Speaker 1: And do they give you any threats? Do they tell
1:17:40
Speaker 1: you what you have to do from here on out?
1:17:43
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I mean the way it ended was I
1:17:48
Speaker 3: told George Knapp all this stuff, and you know, he said, well,
1:17:52
Speaker 3: let's just get it on tape. Should something happen, at
1:17:54
Speaker 3: least we have a record of it. And I don't
1:17:58
Speaker 3: remember what the ampetus was but at some point George
1:18:02
Speaker 3: wanted to air it, and he said, you know, you
1:18:05
Speaker 3: make the call on it, and look, if at any
1:18:08
Speaker 3: point you change your mind, we won't air it. And
1:18:12
Speaker 3: it came down to the day where George wants to
1:18:14
Speaker 3: put her on the five o'clock news. He said, this
1:18:16
Speaker 3: is important stuff. People have to know about it, and
1:18:19
Speaker 3: I thought it was too I thought it's kind of
1:18:21
Speaker 3: a crime. I know, you got to keep the technology secret,
1:18:24
Speaker 3: but you can't not tell everybody that this stuff is
1:18:27
Speaker 3: going on, that we have, you know, actual hardware from
1:18:30
Speaker 3: another civilization. It's a big fucking deal, you know, probably
1:18:35
Speaker 3: the biggest one there ever was. And George said, you know,
1:18:41
Speaker 3: today's the day we got to put it on the news,
1:18:43
Speaker 3: or's something to that effect. And when it came right
1:18:46
Speaker 3: down to the time to air it, I changed my
1:18:48
Speaker 3: mind and I said we're not doing it. And that's
1:18:52
Speaker 3: what turned into the famous wrestling match between me and
1:18:55
Speaker 3: George trying to get the tape.
1:18:57
Speaker 4: But he won because he was a bigger guy.
1:19:00
Speaker 1: He actually physically wrestled well.
1:19:01
Speaker 3: I think it was more of a pulling match. I
1:19:03
Speaker 3: don't think we ever hit the ground, but he got
1:19:06
Speaker 3: the tape. He put it in the player and boom,
1:19:08
Speaker 3: five o'clock news was on. And then I got a
1:19:11
Speaker 3: call after that and they said it was from Dennis.
1:19:14
Speaker 3: He said, you have any idea what we're going to
1:19:16
Speaker 3: do to you now? And he hung up the phone.
1:19:18
Speaker 3: That was the last communication I had with him.
1:19:22
Speaker 1: And what has happened to you since then?
1:19:25
Speaker 3: After that, a lot of people I've known either were
1:19:34
Speaker 3: audited by the IRS. People had Anybody I know that
1:19:37
Speaker 3: had clearances that worked in secure programs had the clearances pulled.
1:19:42
Speaker 3: One of them, friend, that one of mine that Jeremy knows.
1:19:47
Speaker 2: He's doing on camera with me soon he'll tell the
1:19:49
Speaker 2: story now that he's out of work up there.
1:19:51
Speaker 3: He was working up at the Tono Potest range waiting
1:19:54
Speaker 3: for his clearance to come through, and you know.
1:19:56
Speaker 4: They pulled that.
1:19:57
Speaker 3: It became it's like, if they can't get the person
1:20:01
Speaker 3: that's involved, they just create a problem for everybody that
1:20:05
Speaker 3: surrounds them. And so, I mean, the way it turns out,
1:20:08
Speaker 3: it hurt a lot of people's lives that I was
1:20:11
Speaker 3: connected to, and that's an effective way of shutting someone up.
1:20:16
Speaker 1: So did you feel that by coming forward and going
1:20:18
Speaker 1: public they couldn't just snuff you out.
1:20:20
Speaker 3: That was I mean, that's what I was told in
1:20:22
Speaker 3: George and everybody you know said that you got it's public,
1:20:26
Speaker 3: there's no one will touch you.
1:20:27
Speaker 4: And I you know, I.
1:20:29
Speaker 3: Fell for it.
1:20:33
Speaker 1: And I wish you didn't.
1:20:35
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:20:35
Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes when it's just over stressed and people are
1:20:38
Speaker 1: camping on your lawn.
1:20:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's this is going to make things worse
1:20:42
Speaker 3: doing this.
1:20:43
Speaker 1: No, this is going to make things better.
1:20:45
Speaker 2: I'm trying to tell them, how is this going to.
1:20:47
Speaker 4: Make things better?
1:20:48
Speaker 1: Because you're getting a real chance to explain yourself in
1:20:51
Speaker 1: a way that's going to make people who are not
1:20:55
Speaker 1: only work in the government, people that are police officers,
1:20:59
Speaker 1: fire fighters and first responders and doctors and scientists. They're
1:21:03
Speaker 1: going to empathize, emphasize, empathize, and empathize with what it
1:21:11
Speaker 1: must be like to be a person like you in
1:21:13
Speaker 1: your twenties who gets thrust into this world unknowingly and
1:21:18
Speaker 1: confronted with one of the most, if not the most
1:21:23
Speaker 1: important discovery in the history of human beings. The big question,
1:21:28
Speaker 1: Are we alone? It's the number one question. There's two questions, right,
1:21:32
Speaker 1: what happens when we die? And are we alone? Those
1:21:35
Speaker 1: are the two big questions, right, and if we're not
1:21:38
Speaker 1: alone and someone knows we're not alone, and these some
1:21:43
Speaker 1: people who know we're not alone, are these bungling sort of.
1:21:49
Speaker 3: It's a crime. Yet they're not telling the rest of us.
1:21:52
Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't mean bungling in terms they're incompetent.
1:21:55
Speaker 1: I mean they can't be competent. It seems to me
1:21:58
Speaker 1: to what you're describing that no one can be competent
1:22:00
Speaker 1: with this technology, like the Victorian Victorian era scholars analyzing
1:22:06
Speaker 1: some sort of a nuclear reactor. There's there's no way.
1:22:09
Speaker 2: Why do you think, why do you think they're not
1:22:11
Speaker 2: telling us. Let's just make an assumption that this is true,
1:22:13
Speaker 2: right now. Why do you think that they're not telling
1:22:17
Speaker 2: us that our government doesn't tell us? What's your best Well.
1:22:19
Speaker 1: Let me put it into what would you do if
1:22:23
Speaker 1: I'm the president, okay, and I get this information? What
1:22:26
Speaker 1: do I do with this? What do I do with this?
1:22:28
Speaker 1: There's something that we don't know, There's something we don't understand.
1:22:31
Speaker 1: There's something that came from another world. We got it
1:22:33
Speaker 1: tucked away in the mountains, and I just want you
1:22:35
Speaker 1: guys know about it. Hey sleep tight, Hey American not
1:22:38
Speaker 1: is on tonight. Who do you think is gonna win?
1:22:40
Speaker 1: Who's gonna win America's talent?
1:22:43
Speaker 2: So one is uncertainty and the other one is what
1:22:46
Speaker 2: Bob and I have talked about a lot, absolutely not
1:22:49
Speaker 2: knowing what to tell people because you don't really understand
1:22:51
Speaker 2: it yourself even.
1:22:52
Speaker 1: Though you've got what do you say if you want
1:22:54
Speaker 1: to run a government, you want to get people to
1:22:56
Speaker 1: pay their tax, but there's.
1:22:57
Speaker 2: Something else, So you have these objects line with impunity, right,
1:23:01
Speaker 2: and you have something else.
1:23:02
Speaker 1: Well, not only that, what can you say, like how
1:23:05
Speaker 1: much do you really know?
1:23:06
Speaker 3: I think it's mainly the technology. They just want to
1:23:08
Speaker 3: keep the technology secret because there's.
1:23:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, whoever gets the dude?
1:23:13
Speaker 3: Yea, you you control were you become. You literally become invincible.
1:23:18
Speaker 3: Once you master the technology. You can't you cannot penetrate
1:23:22
Speaker 3: a field like that. So I imagine that's I know
1:23:24
Speaker 3: it's all science fiction, but science fiction turns into science fact.
1:23:28
Speaker 3: If you have real force fields around aircraft and battleships,
1:23:33
Speaker 3: you you win.
1:23:35
Speaker 4: You win.
1:23:35
Speaker 3: You can force your will upon anybody. And uh, like
1:23:39
Speaker 3: I said, there's so much more to the story. When
1:23:41
Speaker 3: I was first there, there were Russian scientists at S four.
1:23:46
Speaker 3: That was this was early on in the project.
1:23:48
Speaker 1: So this was before Operation paper Clip became public as well, right.
1:23:51
Speaker 4: I would imagine that was. I don't know what the
1:23:53
Speaker 4: dates were.
1:23:54
Speaker 2: When was that when ninety eight?
1:23:56
Speaker 1: I think eight?
1:23:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't know the dates on it.
1:24:00
Speaker 1: Off ten years later, Operation paper Clip becomes Freedom of
1:24:03
Speaker 1: Information Act.
1:24:04
Speaker 2: We said, abou Russia, not Germany? You have it Russian scientists.
1:24:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean Russian scientists. A lot of them
1:24:09
Speaker 1: came from Germany. A lot of those those rocket scientists
1:24:12
Speaker 1: that worked with NASA, they all came from Nazi scientists,
1:24:15
Speaker 1: got it. So some Russians got some of them.
1:24:18
Speaker 3: I just know that at some point there was intense
1:24:21
Speaker 3: cooperation with I mean even exchanging some ideas on nuclear
1:24:25
Speaker 3: weapons and you know, EMP tests and things we would
1:24:28
Speaker 3: never have discussed with them. But at the same time,
1:24:30
Speaker 3: it was in the late eighties they were involved and
1:24:33
Speaker 3: actually in the area at S four with US.
1:24:37
Speaker 1: And you got to communicate with these guys or you saw.
1:24:39
Speaker 3: Them, No, I knew they were there.
1:24:40
Speaker 1: Barry.
1:24:41
Speaker 3: Barry would talk about the comedies that were there. Comedy, Yeah,
1:24:44
Speaker 3: the comedies, and.
1:24:46
Speaker 1: That was back when they were the comedies.
1:24:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were real comedies, and at some point it
1:24:54
Speaker 3: wasn't our group. But at some point there was a
1:24:56
Speaker 3: big discovery made. And this did not happen when I
1:25:00
Speaker 3: was there. It happened in between my trips to there,
1:25:03
Speaker 3: and after that apparently they decided it was just too
1:25:07
Speaker 3: cool to share with anybody, and the Russians weren't never
1:25:09
Speaker 3: allowed back on the base after that.
1:25:11
Speaker 1: But you don't know what that discovery was.
1:25:12
Speaker 3: No, Now, I guessaid it wasn't my group. So one
1:25:14
Speaker 3: of the other groups really found out something. But the
1:25:19
Speaker 3: you know, in typical American fashion, is all right, this
1:25:22
Speaker 3: is ours you guys, get the hell out of here.
1:25:24
Speaker 1: Was there any inkling that any other government had something similar?
1:25:29
Speaker 4: No, nothing that I had heard.
1:25:31
Speaker 1: See. That was the thing that always freaked me out
1:25:33
Speaker 1: was why, if, if something was so superior to human beings.
1:25:37
Speaker 1: It's almost like visiting an ant colony, like why would
1:25:40
Speaker 1: you go to the queen. I don't give a fuck
1:25:42
Speaker 1: who the queen is. I'm a human. I'm so superior
1:25:44
Speaker 1: to you ants. I don't care who you have running
1:25:46
Speaker 1: your hive. I'm just gonna study it.
1:25:48
Speaker 3: I think it's who got it?
1:25:50
Speaker 1: Who got it?
1:25:50
Speaker 3: Look at the you know, rocket technology in Germany.
1:25:53
Speaker 1: But they got nine of them.
1:25:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either. So they
1:25:58
Speaker 3: were either in the same area or you know, one
1:26:02
Speaker 3: head clues to where others were. I mean, I don't know,
1:26:05
Speaker 3: you have to fill that in there, but you're right,
1:26:07
Speaker 3: I mean nine of them, that's a that's a big
1:26:11
Speaker 3: dig if it was archaeological.
1:26:12
Speaker 1: Well, one of the more recent the recent sightings and
1:26:16
Speaker 1: these discussions that have been coming out recently from Air
1:26:20
Speaker 1: Force pilots and Navy pilots. They've been talking about things
1:26:22
Speaker 1: happening in the ocean and that that something literally goes
1:26:27
Speaker 1: into the water or something maybe below the surface.
1:26:29
Speaker 2: Thing about the water two thousand and four tik Tak
1:26:31
Speaker 2: Nimics case. So that's when George Knap and I broke
1:26:33
Speaker 2: on the radio twice before the New York Times, So
1:26:35
Speaker 2: I know this one really well. Commander Frevor and those
1:26:38
Speaker 2: pilots there was a disturbance on the surface of the water.
1:26:43
Speaker 2: Commander Frever visually saw what looked like similar to a
1:26:47
Speaker 2: cross some object. So it's like as if you have
1:26:50
Speaker 2: some coral under the water and you've got it's breaking
1:26:52
Speaker 2: over right. The tic tac is doing this crazy maneuver
1:26:55
Speaker 2: that defies it's a gravity propelled system.
1:26:58
Speaker 1: They saw it in the sky before this saw on water. Right.
1:27:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there was there were radar that was picking
1:27:03
Speaker 2: these things coming down from eighty thousand feet and dropping
1:27:05
Speaker 2: fifty feet in less than a second.
1:27:08
Speaker 1: This is it, Jamie. This is actually on the news today.
1:27:10
Speaker 1: There was a briefing.
1:27:11
Speaker 2: So a lot of people get this confused. Not this
1:27:14
Speaker 2: one then either, No, So that is called the gimbal.
1:27:17
Speaker 2: So there's three videos released by the Pentagon that are
1:27:20
Speaker 2: all actually I would really just pay attention to the
1:27:25
Speaker 2: source videos. So you've got the tic TAC, which is
1:27:27
Speaker 2: this object that Commander Freber saw. Another pilot filmed it
1:27:31
Speaker 2: with a fleer pod and it goes. But this one
1:27:34
Speaker 2: you see is really important to Bob's story, the gimbal craft.
1:27:38
Speaker 2: It's been recently analyzed. It's flear Not only does it
1:27:42
Speaker 2: it's definitive that it's not conventional anything by its movements,
1:27:47
Speaker 2: but there's a pocket of cold air around a propulsion source.
1:27:52
Speaker 2: So this object, by the way, sat stationary for days,
1:27:56
Speaker 2: if not weeks. It's sat stationary.
1:27:58
Speaker 1: They found it eleven hours later, and they were saying
1:28:00
Speaker 1: there's no way this thing using that kind of energy
1:28:03
Speaker 1: to go that fast could just hover.
1:28:05
Speaker 2: The amount of time. And by the way, you're seeing
1:28:07
Speaker 2: a very small part of what happened that day. This
1:28:10
Speaker 2: object was not alone and so hopefully that information comes
1:28:14
Speaker 2: out and we can I mean, I wish we had
1:28:17
Speaker 2: video of it. I'm sure we'd all want to see it.
1:28:19
Speaker 2: But that's called the gimbal that was East Coast right
1:28:23
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, West Coast two thousand and four is the
1:28:26
Speaker 2: tic TAC. The disturbance on the water. Commander Freber believes
1:28:30
Speaker 2: there was something under that water that was causing that
1:28:33
Speaker 2: disturbance when the TICTAC was coming around and doing it
1:28:36
Speaker 2: withinside the people that are studying this, they're thinking maybe
1:28:39
Speaker 2: the tic TAC system was causing the disturbance, but the
1:28:43
Speaker 2: USO and identified submerged object that he visually saw. The
1:28:49
Speaker 2: whole interesting thing about that is I would love Bob
1:28:51
Speaker 2: to describe it is why it doesn't matter if these
1:28:54
Speaker 2: craft are in space, air, or water. Why doesn't it matter?
1:28:58
Speaker 2: I love when he talks about this well.
1:29:01
Speaker 3: First of all, Commander FRAVERR was the F eighteen pilot
1:29:04
Speaker 3: off the Knimetz that was sent out to find out
1:29:06
Speaker 3: what this stuff is. And it wasn't just I got
1:29:10
Speaker 3: a chance to talk to him recently, and it wasn't
1:29:13
Speaker 3: just a radar image. I mean Commander Fraver had eyes
1:29:16
Speaker 3: on it for over five minutes, watching this thing as
1:29:20
Speaker 3: four other pilots did. So this wasn't a radar blip
1:29:23
Speaker 3: or anything. I mean, these guys were watching this thing.
1:29:26
Speaker 3: But you know, one of the things I think in
1:29:29
Speaker 3: the gimbal video, the way the craft that we worked
1:29:33
Speaker 3: on flies is it doesn't fly like a conventional aircraft does,
1:29:41
Speaker 3: and it doesn't fly like a flying saucer Winter in
1:29:44
Speaker 3: a nineteen fifties movie. It flies belly first. I mean
1:29:48
Speaker 3: it may set down conventionally, but it always rotates. It
1:29:52
Speaker 3: does a roll maneuver, puts its belly towards the target,
1:29:55
Speaker 3: and then moves away.
1:29:56
Speaker 1: At high speed car flying with the wheels forward right right.
1:30:01
Speaker 3: I mean, it may lift land on the wheels, but
1:30:03
Speaker 3: at some point when it wants to leave, flips up,
1:30:07
Speaker 3: points the wheels where it wants to go and takes off.
1:30:09
Speaker 3: And the Gimbal video you can see the craft do
1:30:12
Speaker 3: the role maneuver, and it's really interesting. It behaves exactly
1:30:17
Speaker 3: like the craft that I worked on.
1:30:18
Speaker 1: So much like we have different shaped aircrafts and fighter
1:30:22
Speaker 1: jets and cars. They probably have different shapes of these
1:30:27
Speaker 1: objects that operate under similar.
1:30:29
Speaker 3: Principles, but they all have the same power source.
1:30:33
Speaker 1: All the same power source. And we're also dealing with
1:30:36
Speaker 1: if you think about the laws of technological progression, you know,
1:30:42
Speaker 1: you think of Moore's law, and you think of how
1:30:44
Speaker 1: things accelerate, you've got to think that if this civilization is,
1:30:49
Speaker 1: who knows how many years more advanced than we are,
1:30:52
Speaker 1: if not even years. I mean, I mean we're thinking
1:30:55
Speaker 1: about in terms of conventional terms, right the way we
1:30:57
Speaker 1: look at the world. I mean, they meet, they might
1:31:00
Speaker 1: be just superior in terms of their intellect. They've got
1:31:04
Speaker 1: to be maybe maybe we don't know right.
1:31:06
Speaker 3: Well, the only reason I say that is because look,
1:31:11
Speaker 3: everyone doesn't necessarily start at a steam engine and go
1:31:15
Speaker 3: to an internal combustion engine and then you know, electric power,
1:31:19
Speaker 3: nuclear power, and go up the ladder that we come on.
1:31:23
Speaker 3: You know, the Binary If the stuff is true about
1:31:25
Speaker 3: the origin and the Binary star system, and they have
1:31:27
Speaker 3: heavier elements that we don't have, and this element stable
1:31:31
Speaker 3: element one point fifteen isn't naturally occurring material. Maybe that's
1:31:35
Speaker 3: the first thing they started experimenting with, and the version
1:31:38
Speaker 3: of their steam engine. Their first product was something that
1:31:42
Speaker 3: operated like this. And actually when they came to Earth
1:31:45
Speaker 3: to look around or you know whatever, they were amazed
1:31:48
Speaker 3: at the stuff we were doing. These guys burn stuff
1:31:50
Speaker 3: and squirted out the back to go forward. So you know,
1:31:54
Speaker 3: who says they follow any kind of normal progression like that?
1:31:57
Speaker 1: My thought was, if you went back to the fourteen
1:32:01
Speaker 1: hundreds and then you went from fourteen hundred to fifteen hundred,
1:32:04
Speaker 1: you're not going to see that much of a difference. Technologically,
1:32:07
Speaker 1: if you go from two thousand to three thousand, I
1:32:10
Speaker 1: assume there's going to be a radical change.
1:32:12
Speaker 3: Right, Well, yeah, the delta, the rate of change is
1:32:17
Speaker 3: magnificently higher than it used to be.
1:32:20
Speaker 1: Right, So, if you think about what they had in
1:32:23
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight and you think about what they probably
1:32:26
Speaker 1: have in twenty nineteen, just logically seems like they would advance.
1:32:32
Speaker 3: I would think.
1:32:33
Speaker 1: So the only question is like are they living? Is
1:32:38
Speaker 1: that a living thing in terms of like a biological thing,
1:32:42
Speaker 1: or are they some sort of an artificially created creation
1:32:46
Speaker 1: like we are working on right now. I mean, we're
1:32:48
Speaker 1: in the middle of working on artificial reality, artificial beings,
1:32:52
Speaker 1: sentient beings, artificial intelligence. There's constant there's silicon based life
1:32:56
Speaker 1: forms that they're essentially trying to create Boston Dynamic or
1:33:00
Speaker 1: was it Boston Dynamics at the companies robots.
1:33:03
Speaker 2: You can make machines out of flesh, right, So cyborg
1:33:06
Speaker 2: or cybernetic organism is just that, you know, that's what
1:33:08
Speaker 2: a lot of people think those like gray things are,
1:33:11
Speaker 2: you know that people call the grays. It's like they
1:33:13
Speaker 2: were like their machines printed from flesh. So what you're
1:33:16
Speaker 2: saying is.
1:33:17
Speaker 3: Like synthetic that they don't even need to be, you know, machines.
1:33:23
Speaker 1: Well, they seem to have no sex organs the way
1:33:25
Speaker 1: they're described by people that have had interactions with them,
1:33:27
Speaker 1: assuming these people aren't liars or crazy or whatever, they
1:33:32
Speaker 1: have no sex organs and that they don't seem to
1:33:35
Speaker 1: have any muscle that're's almost like a frame. And they
1:33:38
Speaker 1: have enormous heads. I mean, if you look at Australia
1:33:43
Speaker 1: pithecus or depictions of you know, ancient hominids, and then
1:33:46
Speaker 1: you go to human beings, one of the things you
1:33:48
Speaker 1: see is bigger heads and weaker bodies.
1:33:50
Speaker 3: Well you see some clear progression of evolution too, where
1:33:54
Speaker 3: or something like that. I would lean towards synthetic organism
1:33:58
Speaker 3: because it looks like it was made for a specific task.
1:34:01
Speaker 3: There are no reproductive organs, so I mean that almost
1:34:03
Speaker 3: kind of leaves out any kind of you know, physical evolution.
1:34:07
Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's also our bottleneck, right, Our bottleneck is
1:34:10
Speaker 1: our biological imperative, the need to breed, emotions, fear, anxiety,
1:34:16
Speaker 1: all these different things that exist in order to force
1:34:20
Speaker 1: us into making sure we reproduce. I mean, that's essentially
1:34:23
Speaker 1: with it is a human reward systems that aren't necessary
1:34:27
Speaker 1: once they can figure out a way to make some
1:34:29
Speaker 1: sort of sentient, artificial life, some sort of thing that
1:34:32
Speaker 1: doesn't have these biological limitations that we have.
1:34:35
Speaker 2: By the way, these craft, all these different kinds have
1:34:37
Speaker 2: been reported because it was confusing. I always thought of
1:34:39
Speaker 2: flying sausag as what I heard Bob Lazar talk about
1:34:41
Speaker 2: flying saucer. Right, But if you look back in history,
1:34:44
Speaker 2: people have always reported the weirdest shapes, like none of
1:34:47
Speaker 2: them are alike. You know, there are other saucers, but
1:34:50
Speaker 2: you got cigar shaped, you got you know, the top
1:34:53
Speaker 2: hat shaped you have orbs, why maybe they're serving different purposes.
1:34:57
Speaker 2: They're doing different things, like we'd use different tools. And
1:35:00
Speaker 2: I want to be clear. The reason I know that
1:35:02
Speaker 2: memo is real is because I spend a lot of
1:35:04
Speaker 2: time with doctor Egar Mitchell, six man to walk on
1:35:06
Speaker 2: the moon, last guy to film him before he died. Right,
1:35:10
Speaker 2: That's how I know. I don't want any journalists thinking
1:35:12
Speaker 2: I got it from anywhere else. I know because of
1:35:14
Speaker 2: doctor Mitchell, and he said the same thing. Maybe these
1:35:17
Speaker 2: things are performing different tasks, you know, And that's.
1:35:21
Speaker 1: Why I seem if you think about what an alien
1:35:24
Speaker 1: is in terms of are the sort of iconic image
1:35:27
Speaker 1: of an alien, like Steven Spielberg closing cons are the
1:35:30
Speaker 1: third time the third kind alien, They seem like what
1:35:36
Speaker 1: we'd assume a human being would eventually become. Right, And
1:35:40
Speaker 1: if these things are tiny, human beings are smaller than
1:35:42
Speaker 1: they've ever been before. They're weaker than they've ever been before.
1:35:44
Speaker 1: And there seems to be a trend in that direction.
1:35:47
Speaker 1: And this trend seems to be amplified by our technological progression.
1:35:52
Speaker 1: There are a lack of need for muscle strength and
1:35:55
Speaker 1: our lack of need for violence and we're moving in
1:35:58
Speaker 1: a society to try to get away from all the
1:36:01
Speaker 1: things that we think are a boring about human beings
1:36:03
Speaker 1: and the terrible behaviors that we have if we one
1:36:07
Speaker 1: day do give birth to some sort of an artificial being.
1:36:11
Speaker 1: Like Marshall McLuhan's quote, we are the sex organs of
1:36:16
Speaker 1: the machine world. You know that one day week. Yeah,
1:36:21
Speaker 1: mclun was brilliant, and that quote has always been one
1:36:24
Speaker 1: of my favorites, because, Okay, what are we doing when
1:36:26
Speaker 1: we're constantly technologically innovating. We're constantly looking for faster cars,
1:36:31
Speaker 1: better computers, bigger screens, faster, more resolution, more pixels, more this,
1:36:36
Speaker 1: more that, higher bandwidth, five G, ten G. What are
1:36:39
Speaker 1: we doing? We're moving into this in this if you
1:36:41
Speaker 1: just follow it objectively, stand back, don't attach yourself or
1:36:45
Speaker 1: your civilization, your culture to it, and look at what
1:36:47
Speaker 1: it is. We're moving one hundred percent towards technological innovation.
1:36:53
Speaker 1: If you looked at this species from Afar, and if
1:36:55
Speaker 1: you weren't a part of it, you would say, well,
1:36:57
Speaker 1: what does this species do? Oh? They make things? They
1:36:59
Speaker 1: make things better every year. Beehives are the same fucking
1:37:02
Speaker 1: thing that you see ten years ago. You go by,
1:37:04
Speaker 1: I see it be high. It's amazing, it's cool. But
1:37:06
Speaker 1: they're the same fucking thing. They figured out how to
1:37:08
Speaker 1: do it. They make a bee hive. We don't do that.
1:37:11
Speaker 1: We make better things.
1:37:12
Speaker 2: What would you?
1:37:12
Speaker 3: Constantly and at some point I think that technology is
1:37:15
Speaker 3: going to fuse with us. Yes, and we're going to become.
1:37:17
Speaker 1: It's already happening. Elon mus talked about it on my
1:37:20
Speaker 1: podcast that we are cyeboards. You just carry it in
1:37:22
Speaker 1: your pocket. It's a phone. It answers any question you want.
1:37:25
Speaker 1: You can talk to it. It'll give you the answers.
1:37:27
Speaker 1: The answers instantaneously. It navigates you. It has all your
1:37:31
Speaker 1: phone numbers in it, It has all your contacts. You can
1:37:32
Speaker 1: get a hold of people, people listening to you through it.
1:37:35
Speaker 1: It's connecting us in ways, even involuntarily.
1:37:37
Speaker 2: Haptics, that kind of thing.
1:37:39
Speaker 1: It's also getting on your wrist. How many people have
1:37:41
Speaker 1: I Watches Apple watches right?
1:37:43
Speaker 3: The risk right, And that's only because we can't integrate
1:37:45
Speaker 3: them yet. But if you know that point.
1:37:47
Speaker 1: Is one hundred per Yeah. I didn't joke about it
1:37:49
Speaker 1: last night, but I have a bit about it that
1:37:51
Speaker 1: I do about the integration between humans and technology.
1:37:54
Speaker 2: That's what would you do if you were a hyper intelligence?
1:37:57
Speaker 1: Right?
1:37:58
Speaker 2: Would you do the work yourself? Or would you create
1:38:00
Speaker 2: some cool things called like humans to do it for you?
1:38:03
Speaker 2: Would you create things that are cybernetic organisms to come
1:38:05
Speaker 2: in with machines and do it for you? If you're
1:38:08
Speaker 2: a HyperIntelligence that has kind of changed like you've described,
1:38:11
Speaker 2: you'd probably create workers.
1:38:13
Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's a vast conspiracy theory.
1:38:16
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about conspiracy, but it is a kind
1:38:17
Speaker 2: of a conspiracy asking you well, I mean, I don't
1:38:20
Speaker 2: think it's necessarily that.
1:38:22
Speaker 1: I mean, you could look at it that way, but
1:38:24
Speaker 1: that is the way a conspiracy theorist would look at it.
1:38:26
Speaker 1: The way I would look at it is like, there's
1:38:27
Speaker 1: obviously a progression going on, a biological progression. There's some
1:38:31
Speaker 1: sort of an integration with technology. There's some sort of imperative,
1:38:35
Speaker 1: this need for technological innovation. It's inescapable, everyone has it.
1:38:39
Speaker 1: And I think it's attached to materialism in some sort
1:38:41
Speaker 1: of a strange way, because so many people work so
1:38:45
Speaker 1: hard to get new things, and like God, it seems
1:38:47
Speaker 1: so illogical and preposterous, and it makes people unhappy and
1:38:49
Speaker 1: depressions on the rise, but nobody seems to be able
1:38:51
Speaker 1: to stop it. Like, why is that? Well, maybe it's
1:38:54
Speaker 1: because we are the electronic caterpillars that give birth to
1:38:59
Speaker 1: the bug or fly. Maybe that's what we're doing. Maybe
1:39:02
Speaker 1: what our job is to do is to make some
1:39:05
Speaker 1: sort of a cocoon and we don't even know we're
1:39:07
Speaker 1: doing it while we're doing it. Do you think a
1:39:09
Speaker 1: caterpillar as well, Hey caterpillar, what are you doing? Man?
1:39:12
Speaker 1: Just I'm doing my thing. It's my job. I have
1:39:14
Speaker 1: to make a cocoon.
1:39:15
Speaker 4: Then I'm a But this could be a natural part
1:39:17
Speaker 4: of evolution.
1:39:18
Speaker 3: It could be that we're just supposed to do this
1:39:20
Speaker 3: exactly and make the jump to some sort of mechanized right. Yeah.
1:39:25
Speaker 1: An orangutan that is fishing with a spear. No, they've
1:39:31
Speaker 1: figured out how to fish with spears. There's there's some primatologists.
1:39:37
Speaker 3: Without somebody showing them how to fish.
1:39:39
Speaker 1: No, they've imitated human beings doing it and now they
1:39:42
Speaker 1: do it. But they do it independently. They're not trained rangutans.
1:39:46
Speaker 1: They're wild rang Look at that. There's a wild that's impressive.
1:39:51
Speaker 4: That's impressive.
1:39:52
Speaker 1: Well, there's these primatologists. I guess you would call them primatologists.
1:39:56
Speaker 1: That's the term.
1:39:56
Speaker 4: That's a great.
1:39:57
Speaker 1: Biologists, biologists that believe that monkeys and chimps and some
1:40:03
Speaker 1: of the great apes are moving into the Stone Age,
1:40:05
Speaker 1: that they've currently entered the Stone Age, like they're not
1:40:09
Speaker 1: staying what they were one hundred thousand years ago or
1:40:12
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand years ago, but they're actively using tools
1:40:15
Speaker 1: and they're experimenting with different different ways to use those tools.
1:40:19
Speaker 1: And then they're making tools out of stone, they're making
1:40:21
Speaker 1: tools out of sticks, and they're using them. Well, this
1:40:25
Speaker 1: might just be what happens. This might just be what happens.
1:40:30
Speaker 1: I mean, why else, why are we Why the fuck
1:40:32
Speaker 1: we work so hard? I mean, I was driving to
1:40:35
Speaker 1: La this morning. I had a doctor's appointment, so I
1:40:38
Speaker 1: was on the four or five at eight in the morning.
1:40:40
Speaker 1: Like Jesus Christ, like, this is so crazy. When you're
1:40:43
Speaker 1: in the four or five in La at eight o'clock
1:40:44
Speaker 1: in the morning, you see literally a million cars and
1:40:47
Speaker 1: it's just everywhere you go as people. But and also
1:40:50
Speaker 1: I'm in a tesla, so I have it on an autopilot,
1:40:53
Speaker 1: so I'm there sitting I'm listening to a podcast. I
1:40:55
Speaker 1: barely have my hand on the wheel. I'm not touching shit.
1:40:58
Speaker 1: This car is driving me along. I'm not even doing anything.
1:41:01
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just hanging out. It's so much less
1:41:04
Speaker 1: strapped by the way to do it that way. So
1:41:06
Speaker 1: it encourages you to to innovate. It encourages you to
1:41:09
Speaker 1: embrace this new technology. I got this giant screen. It's
1:41:12
Speaker 1: showing me the navigation in front of me. Oh, I
1:41:15
Speaker 1: be there five minutes early, excellent. And I'm listening to
1:41:17
Speaker 1: a podcast wirelessly. It's Bluetooth scream streaming from my phone.
1:41:22
Speaker 1: And I pulled that podcast which came out today out
1:41:25
Speaker 1: of the fucking sky, and I'm listening to it. And
1:41:27
Speaker 1: I'm all comfortable in my nice little car, just driving
1:41:30
Speaker 1: on my way to the doctor's office.
1:41:31
Speaker 4: This is irresistible stuff.
1:41:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's different than your walkman, irresistible.
1:41:37
Speaker 3: It's frighteningly irresistible.
1:41:39
Speaker 1: But is it frightening? I mean, if you were a monkey, right,
1:41:41
Speaker 1: if you were an Australia pithecus, would you go, Man,
1:41:45
Speaker 1: I don't want to fucking be a person live in
1:41:47
Speaker 1: a house. That's bullshit. I like just swinging around on trees.
1:41:50
Speaker 1: I like running from jaguars. This is life, guys. Life
1:41:54
Speaker 1: is running from crocodiles. It's not living in a suburban.
1:41:56
Speaker 3: There's probably some that are like that.
1:41:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so. I think. I think when
1:42:01
Speaker 1: it comes, we're going to embrace it. We're gonna embrace
1:42:03
Speaker 1: it the same way embrace cell phones, the same way
1:42:05
Speaker 1: embrace television. There's gonna be a few holdouts, so I
1:42:08
Speaker 1: don't even have an email address. Man, those there's a
1:42:11
Speaker 1: few and far between. The good luck with that, fuck face,
1:42:13
Speaker 1: go move to the woods. Ted Kaczinsky. Ted Kazinski was right.
1:42:18
Speaker 1: This is something that I think about sometimes when I
1:42:20
Speaker 1: get really high. That Ted Kazinski was a part of
1:42:24
Speaker 1: the Harvard LSD studies. This has been proven. Ted Kazinski,
1:42:27
Speaker 1: they cooked his fucking brain when he was at Harvard
1:42:30
Speaker 1: and then when he went over to Berkeley and became
1:42:32
Speaker 1: a professor. His goal was to make enough money so
1:42:34
Speaker 1: that he could implement this program and live in the
1:42:37
Speaker 1: woods and then write his manifesto and start killing people
1:42:40
Speaker 1: that were involved in propagating technology.
1:42:42
Speaker 2: He was expunged from the Harvard logs. By the way,
1:42:46
Speaker 2: this is something my friend just called me about. So
1:42:49
Speaker 2: there's like this private library and they used to print
1:42:52
Speaker 2: people's names whenever they were part of a university, and
1:42:55
Speaker 2: he was one of a handful of people that were
1:42:57
Speaker 2: expunged from it. I want to jump back to one thing, Joe.
1:43:01
Speaker 2: I want to be very careful with that word conspiracy theorist.
1:43:04
Speaker 2: What I was, What I was saying to you, is
1:43:06
Speaker 2: we terraform our earth, right, we terriform, we change the environment,
1:43:10
Speaker 2: we do all this innovation. What is stopping us from
1:43:14
Speaker 2: thinking that that's not being done? I'm not saying it is.
1:43:16
Speaker 2: I'm saying what's stopping us from thinking that that's being
1:43:19
Speaker 2: done on a much bigger level, on a cosmic level.
1:43:22
Speaker 1: You mean like aliens coming down doing that the humans.
1:43:25
Speaker 2: So I'm telling you that there is something here that's
1:43:27
Speaker 2: there's a fact, you know, there's something there are a craft.
1:43:30
Speaker 2: They're here, They're not ours, they're here. So the question
1:43:33
Speaker 2: is what is that about? And I'm just looking at
1:43:36
Speaker 2: what we do with what you're describing with technology.
1:43:39
Speaker 1: I think it's much more likely that the same way
1:43:42
Speaker 1: we observe chimps and we observe that they are now
1:43:45
Speaker 1: in the Stone Age, that they're observing us, and that
1:43:47
Speaker 1: they're recognizing that there is a pattern, that there is
1:43:50
Speaker 1: a there's a steps that happen. I mean, Carl Sagan
1:43:53
Speaker 1: talked about the different levels of civilization and that you
1:43:56
Speaker 1: know that if we don't get past certain levels, we're
1:43:58
Speaker 1: never going to reach this mean we're in.
1:44:01
Speaker 2: Going to stay a type zero.
1:44:02
Speaker 1: Well, we're in this warring, polluting, pillaging. We're awesome civilizations. Well,
1:44:09
Speaker 1: I mean we're awesome in a lot of.
1:44:11
Speaker 2: Ways, you know, but in that way we're not.
1:44:12
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we're we're children that have immense power that
1:44:16
Speaker 1: we didn't. Really, the other thing is you're using the
1:44:18
Speaker 1: immense power that other people have created, right, I mean,
1:44:22
Speaker 1: even when you're driving a car and you're stomping on
1:44:23
Speaker 1: the gas like, whoo, you didn't invent the fucking engine,
1:44:27
Speaker 1: you didn't invent tires. There's all these things that were
1:44:30
Speaker 1: involved in the creation of this thing that is really
1:44:34
Speaker 1: outside of your grasp of understanding, but yet you have
1:44:38
Speaker 1: the ability to use it. Like a person with a gun,
1:44:40
Speaker 1: I'm just going to bang, bang bang people. You don't
1:44:42
Speaker 1: you didn't invent a gun. So like you've you've without
1:44:45
Speaker 1: the intellect to craft and engineer and and manifest these creations.
1:44:52
Speaker 1: You just have access to them because you have paper,
1:44:54
Speaker 1: or you have bitcoin, or you have whatever the fuck
1:44:56
Speaker 1: you're using using a credit card. Now you have almost
1:44:59
Speaker 1: no responsibility. You just you could just flippantly use these things.
1:45:03
Speaker 1: Which is why we, you know, we were very childlike
1:45:07
Speaker 1: in our actions, because we haven't had to earn the responsibility.
1:45:11
Speaker 1: We haven't had to earn these things that we've been
1:45:14
Speaker 1: able to have, And you've only been able to have
1:45:16
Speaker 1: them because other people have innovated and spent ungodly amounts
1:45:21
Speaker 1: of time and effort and focus in the lab to
1:45:23
Speaker 1: create these things. And then they've all put them together.
1:45:26
Speaker 1: And then what is the what's the reason to put
1:45:28
Speaker 1: them together? To profit? Well, what's the reason of profit?
1:45:30
Speaker 1: Why are you doing this so you can buy more things?
1:45:33
Speaker 1: What are we doing? What are we doing? We're making
1:45:35
Speaker 1: better things? That's what we do. That's all they do.
1:45:37
Speaker 3: All we do is make bets.
1:45:39
Speaker 1: Why the fuck do we need oil? Why do we
1:45:41
Speaker 1: need oil? Why can't we just burn wood and stay home?
1:45:43
Speaker 1: Why can't we grow chickens and food in the backyard?
1:45:46
Speaker 1: Why can't we do it? Well, we fucking can. We
1:45:48
Speaker 1: certainly can people do do it, But we decide to
1:45:51
Speaker 1: make that almost impossible. Our preferred way of living is
1:45:54
Speaker 1: to stuff everyone into a very small area where no
1:45:57
Speaker 1: one grows anything other than weed. This is what La is.
1:46:00
Speaker 1: La is, twenty million people with hard surfaces, as many
1:46:04
Speaker 1: hard surfaces as you can. Boy, if you got an
1:46:06
Speaker 1: acre backyard in La, Holy shit, look at all that grain.
1:46:09
Speaker 1: This is amazing. Well, no, that's the fucking earth coming
1:46:12
Speaker 1: through this weird sort of creation that we've put on
1:46:16
Speaker 1: top of the earth. But the goal is that like
1:46:18
Speaker 1: New York City, there's none of it, right, you just
1:46:20
Speaker 1: got you've got Central Park and they just got human
1:46:23
Speaker 1: shit stacked up. No one's growing anything. And then constant work.
1:46:27
Speaker 1: Everyone's up early, go, go, go innovate progress, make that
1:46:32
Speaker 1: money so you can buy more things. And every year,
1:46:35
Speaker 1: hey Apple, where's this fucking new phone? As if your
1:46:38
Speaker 1: phone isn't good enough? Yeah, like your phone's taking pictures
1:46:42
Speaker 1: and videos and people are calling you when you've got
1:46:45
Speaker 1: applications to tell you which way the wind's blowing. It's
1:46:47
Speaker 1: not good enough.
1:46:48
Speaker 2: A blink of an eye, blink of an eye. It's
1:46:50
Speaker 2: all gone though that you know, like ten thousand years
1:46:52
Speaker 2: and the Hoover Dam goes or whatever, you know, Mount
1:46:54
Speaker 2: Rushmore disintegrates. So it's amazing because we have created that
1:46:58
Speaker 2: and everything's trying to spring up through that. We keep
1:47:00
Speaker 2: it maintenance down, but we're a blink man. Something hits, but.
1:47:04
Speaker 1: We don't think that way. Well, you know, you think
1:47:06
Speaker 1: in terms of your own life, right you think in
1:47:08
Speaker 1: terms of what you want and what you need. Right now,
1:47:11
Speaker 1: you know what we are in many ways, this combination
1:47:15
Speaker 1: of this weird primitive ape like thing with the ability
1:47:20
Speaker 1: to calculate and manipulate our world and our environment that
1:47:24
Speaker 1: makes us wholly unique. On top of that with existential
1:47:26
Speaker 1: angst and fear. So what do you do with that?
1:47:29
Speaker 1: With fucking water down with antidepressants. Give these fucking people
1:47:33
Speaker 1: some shit that keeps them moving. Who they're worried about
1:47:35
Speaker 1: the future. They're trying to figure out what reality is.
1:47:37
Speaker 1: It's you're on a goddamn convertible spaceship spending one thousand
1:47:41
Speaker 1: miles an hour hurling through infinity. There's no meaning to
1:47:44
Speaker 1: this thing. Just keep making shit, keep making stuff, and
1:47:47
Speaker 1: then one day they're going to be able to hit
1:47:49
Speaker 1: that switch and this life will be born out of
1:47:53
Speaker 1: innovation and thinking and progress and technology, and more than
1:47:58
Speaker 1: likely it's probably going to be what we're seeing. That
1:48:01
Speaker 1: these things are that you're observing.
1:48:04
Speaker 2: I'm not observing them, but yeah, someone.
1:48:07
Speaker 4: Are you implying that they're us?
1:48:09
Speaker 1: I don't think they are us, but I think they
1:48:11
Speaker 1: are what happens when things keep going. It's not us,
1:48:15
Speaker 1: just like we're not monkeys. Right, I'm not a chimp.
1:48:20
Speaker 2: They're from here is your idea?
1:48:22
Speaker 1: No, no, no, that this is what happens all over
1:48:25
Speaker 1: the universe? Yeah, this is what happened. Look, here's the thing,
1:48:28
Speaker 1: you know. I went to see Brian Cox's. He has
1:48:31
Speaker 1: this amazing live show with Robin Ins where they have
1:48:36
Speaker 1: these led screens, these huge screens with these high resolution
1:48:41
Speaker 1: depictions of the cosmos, and one of the most mind
1:48:44
Speaker 1: blowing things was he has this large scale image of
1:48:48
Speaker 1: the universe and it shows all the individual galaxies of
1:48:52
Speaker 1: the universe, and it just keeps moving through all these
1:48:54
Speaker 1: galaxies in three dimensions, and it's fucking incredible. But what's
1:48:58
Speaker 1: stunning is the real uniformity of it. Even at you know,
1:49:03
Speaker 1: I mean, you're obviously looking at an incredibly small depiction
1:49:07
Speaker 1: of something that's immensely large, like a galaxy. Of hundreds
1:49:11
Speaker 1: of billions of stars. You're seeing it as this little dot,
1:49:13
Speaker 1: but this little dot that's flying through space surrounded by
1:49:17
Speaker 1: other little darts with very similarly space distances.
1:49:22
Speaker 2: Between all through.
1:49:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like if we see uniformity in that form
1:49:27
Speaker 1: in terms of like the distance between galaxy, like so
1:49:29
Speaker 1: many galaxies is so it's so similar. They might vary slightly,
1:49:33
Speaker 1: and that slightly might be hundreds of millions of light years, right,
1:49:35
Speaker 1: But there's so much uniformity, why would we not assume
1:49:40
Speaker 1: that that uniformity exists pretty much everywhere and that all
1:49:43
Speaker 1: these things that you're seeing that are so similar. You
1:49:45
Speaker 1: do see binary star systems, you do see single star
1:49:49
Speaker 1: systems like stars. But there's also some some speculation that
1:49:51
Speaker 1: Earth and that our solar system is one time was
1:49:54
Speaker 1: a binary star system, right, I mean, that's one of
1:49:56
Speaker 1: the speculations about that that object that they find outside
1:50:00
Speaker 1: the Kuiper Belt, that the thing is ten times larger
1:50:02
Speaker 1: than Earth. They think it might have been at one
1:50:03
Speaker 1: point in time of star. But this this uniformity that
1:50:07
Speaker 1: you see, why wouldn't we think that that that has
1:50:10
Speaker 1: its same implications biologically, that there's some sort of a
1:50:14
Speaker 1: biological uniformity, and that this happens given the right sets
1:50:18
Speaker 1: of circumstances.
1:50:19
Speaker 4: You should be you.
1:50:19
Speaker 2: Should tell them some of the stuff that you've read
1:50:22
Speaker 2: that you don't know is true. I mean, if the
1:50:24
Speaker 2: stuff was true about the propulsion stuff. I mean, anyway, well,
1:50:28
Speaker 2: what have you read what you saw too?
1:50:31
Speaker 1: You know, what are you talking about?
1:50:34
Speaker 2: Spill the beans, Bob, I got to poke the bear hair,
1:50:37
Speaker 2: getquor in.
1:50:40
Speaker 1: The well.
1:50:42
Speaker 3: I mean the Again, the the only thing I could
1:50:46
Speaker 3: verify was what I had in my hands on there
1:50:50
Speaker 3: were you know, there was talk of weapon systems, that
1:50:53
Speaker 3: there were different projects, project like Galileo, Project Sidekick was
1:50:57
Speaker 3: supposed to be weapon applications of the craft. Project looking
1:51:02
Speaker 3: Glass had to do with time, any effects of time
1:51:05
Speaker 3: in the craft. Now, I don't think we're not talking
1:51:08
Speaker 3: about making a time machine like in science fiction, but
1:51:11
Speaker 3: we're talking about you know, small distortions, intentional distortions of
1:51:14
Speaker 3: time and how that can be used you know as
1:51:18
Speaker 3: ah not as well it was part of a weapon program.
1:51:22
Speaker 1: How are you informed in this?
1:51:23
Speaker 3: But these again were there's just the small briefings that
1:51:26
Speaker 3: I read. But again I don't really like to talk
1:51:29
Speaker 3: about those because I don't have any information on him,
1:51:31
Speaker 3: and it was just you know, small briefings.
1:51:34
Speaker 2: They told Commander Fravor that what he saw might have
1:51:36
Speaker 2: been a time dilation in it.
1:51:39
Speaker 3: Well, it could be because gravity effects time, you know,
1:51:42
Speaker 3: space time.
1:51:43
Speaker 4: I'm sure you've heard of that.
1:51:44
Speaker 3: And you know what what Commander Fraber saw as he
1:51:49
Speaker 3: was in the F eighteen approaching it, he said he
1:51:53
Speaker 3: described it as a ping pong ball in a cup
1:51:56
Speaker 3: and shaking it back and forth.
1:51:57
Speaker 4: It was moving that fast.
1:51:59
Speaker 3: Now, obviously there's anything inside there, it's going to be
1:52:02
Speaker 3: battered to hell. But you know, my point was was that, well,
1:52:07
Speaker 3: one of two things. Either there's a gravitational envelope in
1:52:11
Speaker 3: there which negates any inertia effects, or you are seeing
1:52:16
Speaker 3: through a gravity distortion field.
1:52:19
Speaker 4: So you know, just like you're.
1:52:21
Speaker 3: Looking at a hot highway and you see, you know,
1:52:25
Speaker 3: an optical distortion going through there. Well, the same thing
1:52:28
Speaker 3: happens in gravity, and the craft may not actually be
1:52:30
Speaker 3: moving like that. It may just look like it because
1:52:33
Speaker 3: you're seeing you can only see it through the field,
1:52:37
Speaker 3: so it may be making much more gentle moves. I'm
1:52:40
Speaker 3: not saying that's it, but it has to be one
1:52:43
Speaker 3: of the two.
1:52:44
Speaker 2: And the thing shows up sixty miles away. They noticed
1:52:47
Speaker 2: it on radar sixty seconds after left Commander Favor, but
1:52:52
Speaker 2: it was at his cap point, which is the next
1:52:54
Speaker 2: point he was destined to go to sixty miles away,
1:52:57
Speaker 2: and in sixty seconds on radar, the same object ends
1:53:02
Speaker 2: up there.
1:53:03
Speaker 1: So it's going a mile second.
1:53:05
Speaker 2: No, they I think the radar just picked it up
1:53:08
Speaker 2: in sixty seconds.
1:53:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, I could have been there instantly.
1:53:11
Speaker 2: But yeah, we don't know.
1:53:13
Speaker 3: Cycle.
1:53:13
Speaker 2: Nobody knows. That's the whole thing is.
1:53:15
Speaker 1: Oh, so it cycles like radar cycles.
1:53:18
Speaker 3: It doesn't sweep, but I mean it yeah, it's a plane,
1:53:22
Speaker 3: so it just you know, it scans around it at
1:53:25
Speaker 3: random places.
1:53:26
Speaker 2: The spy one does it really cool? Yeah, it doesn't
1:53:28
Speaker 2: do the whole loop anymore.
1:53:30
Speaker 3: And the point the point is though, that the craft
1:53:33
Speaker 3: moved to his next location before he knew where his
1:53:37
Speaker 3: next location was going to be. Jesus, And that's I mean,
1:53:42
Speaker 3: that's well documented. So that's a that's a pretty shocking
1:53:47
Speaker 3: piece of information.
1:53:48
Speaker 1: What's fascinating to me too, is that you were discussing
1:53:51
Speaker 1: this the way this reactor worked, and that these things
1:53:56
Speaker 1: were not really connected.
1:53:58
Speaker 3: No, nothing is connected. There's no wiring at all.
1:54:05
Speaker 2: That freaks me the fuck out charge your iPhone, you know, Yeah, yeah.
1:54:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's the that's the simple electromagnetic Yeah.
1:54:14
Speaker 3: I know again, but that's just simple electro magnetic induction.
1:54:17
Speaker 1: But I mean, Tesla the scientist had this concept.
1:54:20
Speaker 3: Of right, that's that's that's what I'm talking about for other.
1:54:23
Speaker 1: People that I don't know what we're saying that he
1:54:24
Speaker 1: wanted to send wireless electricity through the sky, and Westinghouse
1:54:28
Speaker 1: was like, get the fuck out of here with that,
1:54:30
Speaker 1: Like when anybody could just pull electricity.
1:54:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, they couldn't.
1:54:33
Speaker 4: They couldn't.
1:54:34
Speaker 2: We just talk in the car right over and trying
1:54:36
Speaker 2: to chill him out. You know, we're talking about Tesla
1:54:38
Speaker 2: and now you know he couldn't be metered and how
1:54:40
Speaker 2: it all went down. So it's funny bring it up.
1:54:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that I mean, who knows what would have
1:54:46
Speaker 1: happened in terms of animation had he been allowed to
1:54:48
Speaker 1: go forward with that.
1:54:50
Speaker 3: Well, we probably wouldn't have computers, you think. Yeah, I'm
1:54:54
Speaker 3: pretty positive. I mean, forget about microelectronics. Well, this is
1:54:57
Speaker 3: dumping huge amounts of electromagnet energy in the air, and yeah,
1:55:01
Speaker 3: we'd be able to wirelessly turn on our lights, but
1:55:06
Speaker 3: there'd be no radio communication. The interference would be something
1:55:09
Speaker 3: we would be overwhelming. It would induce electric currents in
1:55:13
Speaker 3: anything with a small wire on it, so integrated circuits,
1:55:16
Speaker 3: transistors would be disintegrated before they were even you know,
1:55:20
Speaker 3: tested for operations. So it would it would destroyed us up. Yeah,
1:55:24
Speaker 3: it would have stopped us dead. We'd have it'd be great,
1:55:27
Speaker 3: you can turn lighters on and heaters from all over
1:55:29
Speaker 3: the place with no wires, but it would stop modern electronics.
1:55:33
Speaker 1: And if we became dependent on it, it would almost
1:55:35
Speaker 1: be like our dependence on fossil fuels. Although it's destructive,
1:55:38
Speaker 1: it's very difficult for us to get off the nipple.
1:55:41
Speaker 2: It would have changed the course of how we developed,
1:55:43
Speaker 2: which is so interesting when you talk about if a
1:55:45
Speaker 2: civilization to other star system didn't even start with fossil fuels,
1:55:49
Speaker 2: they had one fifteen naturally on their planet and they're
1:55:51
Speaker 2: like cool, anti gravity's pretty awesome.
1:55:53
Speaker 1: Well, the fact that I.
1:55:54
Speaker 3: Think it's important that that actually happened, Yeah, it might
1:55:58
Speaker 3: have been stopped in its tracks for reason.
1:56:01
Speaker 1: WHOA, And it's just it's I think it's incredibly difficult
1:56:07
Speaker 1: for us to imagine technological progression under another timeline other
1:56:11
Speaker 1: than the one that we've experienced.
1:56:12
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's difficult if.
1:56:14
Speaker 1: We imagine what this alien race must have been like,
1:56:18
Speaker 1: and I mean, God, just just to be able to
1:56:22
Speaker 1: see something take like, I mean, obviously we've seen it
1:56:25
Speaker 1: in different life forms, right, Like we see the life
1:56:27
Speaker 1: of certain beetles in comparison to the life of certain fish,
1:56:30
Speaker 1: very very different existence, very different life cycles. Octopus, yeah, octopus, yeah,
1:56:36
Speaker 1: I mean we see all these different variables in terms
1:56:38
Speaker 1: of biological entities on Earth, but we don't see it
1:56:41
Speaker 1: in terms of technological innovation, as we're the only one
1:56:44
Speaker 1: that's intelligent that can innovate. We have intelligent creatures, but
1:56:48
Speaker 1: they're in the ocean. The only other thing that are
1:56:50
Speaker 1: like us are dolphins and orcas in whales, and they
1:56:53
Speaker 1: don't have the ability to manipulate their environment. And subsequently,
1:56:56
Speaker 1: because they don't have the ability to manipulate their environment,
1:56:59
Speaker 1: we put them in and we're like, get in the tank,
1:57:02
Speaker 1: do some tricks, right, you know.
1:57:04
Speaker 2: The only thing he saw in the craft, if we're
1:57:06
Speaker 2: considering Bob's story, the only thing that he saw in
1:57:09
Speaker 2: the craft that he related to it looked like a
1:57:12
Speaker 2: human could make. Was this honeycomb hatch And I always
1:57:15
Speaker 2: loved that because you're like obsessed with this thing that
1:57:18
Speaker 2: you could recognize.
1:57:19
Speaker 3: You now the read Yeah. I only focus on that
1:57:21
Speaker 3: because it was the one thing that I understood how
1:57:24
Speaker 3: it worked what wasn't and it was it was the
1:57:26
Speaker 3: access to the level below, and it was well, you know,
1:57:32
Speaker 3: if you take a you have a six pack of
1:57:34
Speaker 3: beer and you take out the cardboard dividers, set it
1:57:38
Speaker 3: on the table, you can put a lot of pressure
1:57:40
Speaker 3: on the top, but if you push it from the sides,
1:57:44
Speaker 3: it collapses flat. So it was something like that in
1:57:47
Speaker 3: a honeycomb shape that was essentially some sort of sheet
1:57:50
Speaker 3: metal and you could walk on that in the upper layer.
1:57:54
Speaker 3: But if you took the corner, stuck your finger in
1:57:57
Speaker 3: and pushed, it collapsed and made an entryway. So I
1:58:01
Speaker 3: thought that was a really unique I had never seen
1:58:04
Speaker 3: that before and it was the only thing in the
1:58:05
Speaker 3: craft that made absolute sense to me. I said, ah,
1:58:08
Speaker 3: we can make that, and all that is is a hatchway.
1:58:11
Speaker 1: Was there any discussion about the materials that were used
1:58:14
Speaker 1: to make the craft.
1:58:16
Speaker 3: I'm sure there was, but that was a metallurgy division
1:58:19
Speaker 3: had nothing to do with us.
1:58:20
Speaker 1: So you never got a.
1:58:22
Speaker 3: Not even the slightest briefing. I don't even know if
1:58:24
Speaker 3: it was a metal or it was ceramic. I think
1:58:27
Speaker 3: there's a fine line between the two.
1:58:30
Speaker 1: Now, one of the things that's happened to you that
1:58:33
Speaker 1: has allowed people to discredit you was there's obviously been
1:58:37
Speaker 1: some sort of an effort to erase your past. Yeah,
1:58:41
Speaker 1: some sort of an effort to erase your education history,
1:58:45
Speaker 1: your employment history at Los Almos. In fact, the only
1:58:49
Speaker 1: way your employment history was proven at Los Almos. So
1:58:51
Speaker 1: someone got a list, a directory of the employees from
1:58:54
Speaker 1: the past and read into it, and you were on
1:58:57
Speaker 1: that list. So it proved that you worked there, even
1:58:59
Speaker 1: though people were trying to n and they were trying
1:59:00
Speaker 1: to use that as a way to discredit you, that
1:59:02
Speaker 1: you never did work at Los Almost you weren't really
1:59:04
Speaker 1: real scientists. What was what was that like to experience?
1:59:08
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, we're talking about the nineteen eighties,
1:59:11
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties when you could get away with something
1:59:13
Speaker 1: like that.
1:59:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously there are a lot less, a lot less
1:59:19
Speaker 3: records on computers at that time. It was still file
1:59:22
Speaker 3: cabinets and folders. But yeah, that was frightening. That was
1:59:26
Speaker 3: one of the first things happened. I think it's I
1:59:29
Speaker 3: think George Knapp was the first one that uncovered that.
1:59:32
Speaker 3: I mean, he saw my birth certificate disappear.
1:59:35
Speaker 1: He disappeared. Yeah, there was no record of your being.
1:59:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was there was no record of that. There
1:59:40
Speaker 3: was no record.
1:59:42
Speaker 2: His mom tells me about that, like, it was frightening
1:59:45
Speaker 2: for her, for he's got a real family, you know,
1:59:47
Speaker 2: he's a real person. It's frightening for her.
1:59:49
Speaker 3: But if the Los Alamos thing really surprised me, and
1:59:53
Speaker 3: that they were so adamant that, no, this guy never
1:59:56
Speaker 3: worked here, don't be ridiculous. And George went back and forth,
1:59:59
Speaker 3: you know for the letters on the Yeah, months, I mean,
2:00:02
Speaker 3: it was ridiculous. But fortunately somebody came up with a
2:00:05
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty two phone book directory. I mean, and also
2:00:10
Speaker 3: originally I told you, you know, when I worked there,
2:00:14
Speaker 3: I was on the front page of the paper, so
2:00:16
Speaker 3: they were still able to archive, you know, bring that
2:00:19
Speaker 3: back from the archives. And you know, Bob Blazar a
2:00:21
Speaker 3: physicist working here at Los Alamos, so there was at
2:00:24
Speaker 3: least something there. But somehow George came up with the
2:00:28
Speaker 3: phone directory.
2:00:29
Speaker 2: And then George. Then Bob took George with cameras into
2:00:32
Speaker 2: Los Alamos.
2:00:33
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah. So we flew out there and I said, look,
2:00:36
Speaker 3: come on in, I'll show you where I worked. We'll
2:00:38
Speaker 3: go in, we'll meet people. And George went with me
2:00:41
Speaker 3: and you knowgate the place, Oh yeah, you know, met people,
2:00:46
Speaker 3: you know, and.
2:00:48
Speaker 1: Was also the place where they had the machine that
2:00:51
Speaker 1: was able to read the size of your digits.
2:00:54
Speaker 3: No, no, that was that was S four.
2:00:56
Speaker 1: That was S four, and explain that.
2:00:59
Speaker 4: So well, now this was back in the eighties.
2:01:02
Speaker 1: And this is back in the eighties where when you
2:01:04
Speaker 1: discuss this people like this doesn't even exist. Yeah, okay,
2:01:07
Speaker 1: what was it?
2:01:08
Speaker 3: It was a way you know, this is before fingerprint
2:01:11
Speaker 3: scanners and you know, and anything of any high resolution
2:01:17
Speaker 3: scanner of that time. So what it was was a
2:01:19
Speaker 3: device that had a little picture of a hand on
2:01:22
Speaker 3: a glass plate with pins in it, so you could
2:01:25
Speaker 3: jam your hand in there, and there was a bright
2:01:27
Speaker 3: light above it and a sensor underneath, and when you
2:01:30
Speaker 3: put your hand in there, the light would turn on
2:01:33
Speaker 3: and it would measure the bones in your finger because
2:01:36
Speaker 3: the light shone through your.
2:01:37
Speaker 4: Bones and apparently.
2:01:41
Speaker 3: The length of the bones in your fingers are extremely
2:01:44
Speaker 3: unique and easy to measure, and they use that when
2:01:47
Speaker 3: you put your hands on there, the light would turn
2:01:49
Speaker 3: on and your badge would pop out. Oh there it is.
2:01:52
Speaker 4: That's it.
2:01:53
Speaker 3: And I tried to describe this to people and they said,
2:01:57
Speaker 3: that is the most ridiculous thing we've ever heard. And
2:02:01
Speaker 3: I said, hey, that my badge came out of that thing.
2:02:03
Speaker 3: I put my hand on it, badge popped out, and
2:02:05
Speaker 3: that's how I could open the doors and get into
2:02:07
Speaker 3: AS four and you know.
2:02:10
Speaker 1: And everybody discredited that, they said it was bullshit of
2:02:13
Speaker 1: science fiction. And Jeremy, you found this.
2:02:15
Speaker 2: I found it through a good friend of mine named
2:02:18
Speaker 2: Tyler rogu Away, and he had some good sources inside
2:02:20
Speaker 2: of fifty two where they also used these for the
2:02:23
Speaker 2: stealth program right around that time. So now I've got
2:02:26
Speaker 2: all these people that worked within who you know, said
2:02:29
Speaker 2: only if you're in certain programs would we use this technology.
2:02:32
Speaker 2: It was kind of shit. Actually, they didn't keep it
2:02:34
Speaker 2: for very long beginning of biometrics, so I was able
2:02:36
Speaker 2: to reveal it in my film. I kept my mouth
2:02:38
Speaker 2: shut until I showed it to Bob, you know, in
2:02:41
Speaker 2: the movie. Is the first time he saw it was
2:02:43
Speaker 2: how you see it in the documentary. That's his genuine reaction.
2:02:45
Speaker 2: I'm getting goosebumps.
2:02:46
Speaker 1: That was a great idea the way you did it.
2:02:48
Speaker 2: Thank you man, because you know it. Guess what I'm
2:02:50
Speaker 2: actually trying to see if he's telling the truth. That's
2:02:52
Speaker 2: how I started, you know, That's how I started. So
2:02:54
Speaker 2: it was really cool to see that and that you
2:02:56
Speaker 2: get to see it his actual reaction.
2:02:58
Speaker 1: Has that been verified by other people?
2:03:00
Speaker 2: Yeah? So yeah, so to me it has personally, I
2:03:04
Speaker 2: get emails every day and people are telling me where
2:03:07
Speaker 2: these are used and how they're used. In the semi photos,
2:03:09
Speaker 2: I got a lot of photos of IDENTI matts.
2:03:10
Speaker 1: Now, well how they were used, right, They're not how
2:03:12
Speaker 1: they were used us?
2:03:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't The most recent one was way
2:03:17
Speaker 2: more recent than I thought, in another country. But yeah,
2:03:19
Speaker 2: that technology was used. So what's so funny is that
2:03:25
Speaker 2: this technology even in the area fifty two where they'd
2:03:28
Speaker 2: use him for Tonapaw, one of the guys who will
2:03:30
Speaker 2: go on camera and he will do an interview with me.
2:03:33
Speaker 2: He was a technician for one of these and he
2:03:36
Speaker 2: hated them because they were really bad. They always broke
2:03:38
Speaker 2: down and never and he was a technician for him.
2:03:41
Speaker 2: Now he won't tell me where if he worked at
2:03:43
Speaker 2: Area fifty two, so it's probably Tona, PA. It's very separated,
2:03:47
Speaker 2: even on base.
2:03:48
Speaker 1: But yeah, so there was that. Yeah, there is your
2:03:52
Speaker 1: education record that was also like what happened with that?
2:03:57
Speaker 3: Well that disappeared. Also, you know that I've never gone.
2:04:03
Speaker 3: I've never gone anywhere for education. I've never gone. I
2:04:07
Speaker 3: never attended any classes at Caltech. I never attended anything
2:04:10
Speaker 3: at MIT.
2:04:11
Speaker 1: You did ten classes in those places?
2:04:14
Speaker 3: I did a ten classes in those places.
2:04:15
Speaker 1: Do you know anybody that you went to school with? Yes?
2:04:18
Speaker 3: I do.
2:04:19
Speaker 1: And have they verified that they went to school with you? Well?
2:04:21
Speaker 3: I gave Jeremy some names. But yeah. The reason I
2:04:25
Speaker 3: don't say these names publicly is because every single time
2:04:29
Speaker 3: I mentioned a name, somebody gets into.
2:04:32
Speaker 1: I don't want to course, Yeah, yeah, of course, But
2:04:37
Speaker 1: what is that experience like seeing your birth certificate erase,
2:04:41
Speaker 1: seeing your employment?
2:04:42
Speaker 3: Well, it's frightening, it's it's absolutely.
2:04:45
Speaker 1: It's also the fuel that the debunkers use the so
2:04:48
Speaker 1: called air quote skeptics. I don't like the term skeptics.
2:04:51
Speaker 1: I'm want to say this pubably because I really only
2:04:53
Speaker 1: said this privately. I think it's a sloppy, lazy way
2:04:56
Speaker 1: to look at things, to just be a skeptic. I
2:05:00
Speaker 1: want people to be objective, and I think there's a
2:05:03
Speaker 1: lot of things you should be skeptical of. I think
2:05:07
Speaker 1: you should. You should look at things and look at
2:05:09
Speaker 1: things from a hard line science perspective.
2:05:13
Speaker 4: You should be objective.
2:05:15
Speaker 1: But the idea of skeptics, the problem with that is
2:05:17
Speaker 1: you're always looking for things to be bullshit. Yah. And
2:05:19
Speaker 1: I think that's dangerous because I think some things aren't bullshit.
2:05:22
Speaker 2: It's confirmation biased. On the other end, you're just deciding
2:05:25
Speaker 2: to take a square thing and put it in a
2:05:26
Speaker 2: round hole no matter what.
2:05:27
Speaker 1: And I find a lot of them to be lazy,
2:05:30
Speaker 1: a lot of them to be lazy thinkers, because they're
2:05:32
Speaker 1: always putting it into that box instead of going hmm,
2:05:36
Speaker 1: instead of just separating their ego. They're trying. They're playing
2:05:39
Speaker 1: a game, and the game is calling bullshit. I want
2:05:42
Speaker 1: to call bullshit, and I'm going to line up all
2:05:44
Speaker 1: these reasons why it's bullshit, and I'm going to ignore
2:05:46
Speaker 1: anything that might be contrary to that definition.
2:05:49
Speaker 4: Yeah, that does.
2:05:50
Speaker 2: Every time I'm thinking, I'm going to catch him in something.
2:05:52
Speaker 2: You know, all along this process I found doctor Krangle.
2:05:55
Speaker 2: He came forward and said, I was in security briefings
2:05:57
Speaker 2: with Bob Lazar, the physicist Atlas, and almost he went
2:06:00
Speaker 2: on the record with me. Now, the other people I
2:06:02
Speaker 2: talked with, why won't they go on the record with me?
2:06:04
Speaker 2: Because they're still working there. So that that's the difference, right,
2:06:08
Speaker 2: what is that? What can the public have or even.
2:06:10
Speaker 1: If they're not working there, you know, they want to
2:06:12
Speaker 1: live their lives. I mean, obviously people have seen what's
2:06:15
Speaker 1: happened to you.
2:06:16
Speaker 2: Mike Thigpin after thirty years.
2:06:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, really fond if you look at all the information
2:06:21
Speaker 3: on you know, concerning my accounts, that's that's verifiable. It
2:06:27
Speaker 3: can't possibly be a bullshit story anymore. It's really way
2:06:32
Speaker 3: past that point. Yeah, I mean that was my big
2:06:35
Speaker 3: pin is I mean, how is that? Who is this possibly?
2:06:37
Speaker 1: Now?
2:06:38
Speaker 2: Uh So, Mike big Pin was the guy that did
2:06:42
Speaker 2: the security clearances to go to the bait. One of
2:06:44
Speaker 2: the guys that was this.
2:06:45
Speaker 1: Is the guy that you work with.
2:06:46
Speaker 2: He said he did, right, and and George Knapp, you know,
2:06:50
Speaker 2: George didn't believe him. George put him through four polygraph tests, right,
2:06:54
Speaker 2: He tried to see. Man, this is a big risk.
2:06:56
Speaker 2: It sounds interesting, but let's see if he's telling the truth.
2:07:00
Speaker 2: One of the things was Bob said, there's a guy
2:07:02
Speaker 2: named Mike Thike Pin. He did security clearances for the
2:07:04
Speaker 2: Bass and that's a weird name, it's very specific. For
2:07:08
Speaker 2: thirty years, George found this guy in this weird department
2:07:12
Speaker 2: that he didn't even know. It was my big pin.
2:07:14
Speaker 2: But the guy wouldn't talk to me. Ghosted him totally,
2:07:15
Speaker 2: ghosting for thirty years. Used Facebook and Google image match
2:07:19
Speaker 2: through his children. I was able to find him after
2:07:21
Speaker 2: thirty years and I talked to him three times on
2:07:24
Speaker 2: the phone. He lives on the East Coast. He almost
2:07:26
Speaker 2: went on camera with me. Confirmed that he did security
2:07:29
Speaker 2: clearances for the base in nineteen eighty nine. Confirmed he
2:07:32
Speaker 2: remembers Bob Lazaar. And what you don't know is there's
2:07:35
Speaker 2: a handwritten note that a friend of yours has from Mike.
2:07:39
Speaker 2: What know, I'm gonna give it to you later. I don't,
2:07:41
Speaker 2: but that is real. That is actual, so handwritten. Oh
2:07:43
Speaker 2: this is what you know? Like this is so when
2:07:46
Speaker 2: I when.
2:07:47
Speaker 3: You're when they do security clearances, they go through all
2:07:53
Speaker 3: your friends and.
2:07:53
Speaker 2: Fa They go to a friend. Yeah, yeah, so this
2:07:55
Speaker 2: is too Bob and I had people come to me
2:07:59
Speaker 2: for a friend of mine that's sir, and they're doing
2:08:00
Speaker 2: a security cliance for him. And even though I'm like
2:08:03
Speaker 2: the UFO guy, they did, you know, the f back
2:08:05
Speaker 2: come and visit my house and make sure that they
2:08:07
Speaker 2: talk about my friend, and they lift a little card.
2:08:10
Speaker 2: And when my wife told him to get away because
2:08:12
Speaker 2: he didn't know who they were, they left a little card.
2:08:14
Speaker 2: It's super cute.
2:08:15
Speaker 1: Now.
2:08:15
Speaker 2: Back then it was a handwritten note and his friend
2:08:18
Speaker 2: has it for him that you haven't seen in oh
2:08:20
Speaker 2: my god, two decades. So if you're listening, what is
2:08:26
Speaker 2: his card? It's just a little handwritten note with Mike
2:08:29
Speaker 2: Thigpin's signature.
2:08:30
Speaker 1: Card like a like a like a postcard.
2:08:33
Speaker 2: Like a piece of paper that he left on the
2:08:35
Speaker 2: door saying when Bob gets back or whatever it says
2:08:37
Speaker 2: on it. So it's just another little funny thing I found.
2:08:40
Speaker 2: The guy he does his security clearances. He admitted to
2:08:42
Speaker 2: me he did it, and he admitted to me he
2:08:44
Speaker 2: was dodging George Knapp because when George said his name
2:08:46
Speaker 2: on the news, he dropped his fork into his steak
2:08:50
Speaker 2: or into his potatoes or whatever, and he's looking at
2:08:52
Speaker 2: his wife. He was in trouble. His name's never supposed
2:08:55
Speaker 2: to be out there, like it's just a security clearance guy.
2:08:57
Speaker 2: But you don't want national attention associated with anything Bob
2:09:00
Speaker 2: has to say. But anyway, this unique name, Bob said,
2:09:04
Speaker 2: for thirty years, and the guy ghosted George Knapp. George
2:09:06
Speaker 2: could prove he existed. He actually talked to me. Man,
2:09:09
Speaker 2: he talked to me three times. He almost went on
2:09:11
Speaker 2: camera with me. It's just crazy what happens after thirty years,
2:09:15
Speaker 2: you just get more info.
2:09:16
Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the reasons why when you and
2:09:20
Speaker 1: me and Jeremy and George Knapp had that conversation on
2:09:24
Speaker 1: the phone, I said, I think what we can do
2:09:28
Speaker 1: with this podcast is important. I really do. I think
2:09:33
Speaker 1: it's important for people to hear this from you in
2:09:36
Speaker 1: a very clear, just very concise way. And if you
2:09:44
Speaker 1: examine all the information that you've said today, if you
2:09:48
Speaker 1: look at all the things that the detractors have said,
2:09:50
Speaker 1: if you look at all of the new recent evidence
2:09:53
Speaker 1: that's coming out, and all these really high level people
2:09:57
Speaker 1: in the military and the government that are discussing this,
2:10:01
Speaker 1: it gives you far more credibility than you would have
2:10:06
Speaker 1: had in the nineteen shitties when this came out.
2:10:09
Speaker 2: Fuck yes, you can't his story just because you don't
2:10:13
Speaker 2: like it anymore.
2:10:13
Speaker 1: That's why I thought it was important that you come
2:10:15
Speaker 1: out and refresh the world's memory and let people know.
2:10:19
Speaker 1: And like I said, I've been I mean, I want
2:10:20
Speaker 1: to say I'm a fan of yours, but I guess
2:10:22
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of yours as a human being. I'm
2:10:24
Speaker 1: a fan of yours, but I've been following you for decades.
2:10:27
Speaker 1: I've been following the story for decades.
2:10:28
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm kidding.
2:10:30
Speaker 2: I have VHS tape, like a lot of the world has. Yeah,
2:10:33
Speaker 2: it's crazy.
2:10:34
Speaker 1: Well, anybody that has any sort of a vested interest
2:10:38
Speaker 1: or just a even just a fascination with UFOs has
2:10:43
Speaker 1: followed your story because there's no one else. There's no
2:10:48
Speaker 1: one else that comes forward. There's some guy who said,
2:10:50
Speaker 1: I worked underground with the aliens. They shot my hand off,
2:10:52
Speaker 1: Like there's a bunch of like wacky dudes. They're underground,
2:10:55
Speaker 1: there's bases, They're shooting lasers through the Earth's crust and
2:10:57
Speaker 1: I move them at light speed. There's a lot of
2:10:59
Speaker 1: the those guys. They seem schizophrenic, they seem crazy. They
2:11:02
Speaker 1: might even be disinformation agents. They might be people that
2:11:05
Speaker 1: are designed to muddy the waters, which for sure has happened.
2:11:09
Speaker 2: People are coming forward though now. It's amazing. By doing this,
2:11:12
Speaker 2: what you're doing, you're providing an opportunity for Bob to
2:11:15
Speaker 2: tell his story. You know, believe it or not, he
2:11:17
Speaker 2: can tell his story. It's amazing because more people will
2:11:20
Speaker 2: come forward now that are involved with these projects. They'll
2:11:25
Speaker 2: come forward to you, to me. They're coming forward, and
2:11:27
Speaker 2: so what you've done here is provide that opportunity if
2:11:29
Speaker 2: they need it, and it's amazing. I just want to say, Bob.
2:11:32
Speaker 4: Just don't come forward to me.
2:11:33
Speaker 2: No, don't come forward to Bob. Why were you freaking
2:11:38
Speaker 2: nauseous at the beginning of this, like so upset? Why
2:11:42
Speaker 2: was your why do you have a migraine? Because that
2:11:44
Speaker 2: started off so hard? My god, I was sitting here
2:11:45
Speaker 2: like did this?
2:11:46
Speaker 1: Why are you asking him why? Because of anxiety? The
2:11:49
Speaker 1: guy's gone to thirty fucking years of being persecuted.
2:11:54
Speaker 2: From I want to hear him say. I want them
2:11:56
Speaker 2: to say that you don't I step out down?
2:12:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I get it.
2:12:03
Speaker 2: You were you were.
2:12:04
Speaker 1: It was hard for you to get them here, you know,
2:12:06
Speaker 1: and I appreciate for us. Yeah you wow, You don't.
2:12:09
Speaker 3: What really annoys me are the people that think, you know,
2:12:12
Speaker 3: you guys just came up with the story to make
2:12:14
Speaker 3: a bunch of money or get a bunch of you know, attention.
2:12:16
Speaker 1: And that's a good point. So please explain that I don't.
2:12:19
Speaker 3: Get any money out of this at all. And I may.
2:12:22
Speaker 3: I didn't even let you guys buy plane tickets for
2:12:24
Speaker 3: me to come out here or anything. I mean anytime.
2:12:28
Speaker 3: Like when Jeremy uh pre previewed I guess the movie
2:12:33
Speaker 3: up in Michigan, I mean they it brought in like
2:12:36
Speaker 3: a couple thousand dollars. I made sure that two thousand
2:12:38
Speaker 3: dollars went to science programs at the local high schools there.
2:12:42
Speaker 2: I don't dirty money.
2:12:43
Speaker 1: I don't want to touch it.
2:12:44
Speaker 3: I don't take any money from this stuff. And as
2:12:46
Speaker 3: far as attention, I hate fucking attention. I don't like
2:12:52
Speaker 3: being on shows. I just want to kind of hide
2:12:54
Speaker 3: in the corner and do my own thing. So it's
2:12:56
Speaker 3: I got enough hugs when I was a kid, Okay,
2:12:58
Speaker 3: I don't need any attention. So no that if if
2:13:02
Speaker 3: you if you think somehow we came up with this thing,
2:13:05
Speaker 3: then you got to tell me why we did it.
2:13:08
Speaker 1: Well, you've done a great job of making sure you
2:13:10
Speaker 1: have your basis covered in that regard that you haven't
2:13:13
Speaker 1: profited off of this, and like you said that you
2:13:14
Speaker 1: have donated whatever money that came your way to science programs.
2:13:18
Speaker 1: It's I mean it. It doesn't make any sense any
2:13:22
Speaker 1: other way. I mean, what you're what I've gotten out
2:13:25
Speaker 1: of here is what I thought I was going to
2:13:27
Speaker 1: get out of here when I watched the documentary that
2:13:29
Speaker 1: you what you're saying makes sense. It doesn't make sense
2:13:32
Speaker 1: that it's bullshit.
2:13:34
Speaker 3: It happened exactly like I said it did.
2:13:36
Speaker 1: Joe, I believe you. In closing, is there anything else
2:13:40
Speaker 1: you'd like to say?
2:13:43
Speaker 3: No, I can't think of anything other than really don't
2:13:45
Speaker 3: come and try to visit me.
2:13:49
Speaker 1: Well, I know that you have paid a huge personal
2:13:53
Speaker 1: cost to get this information out, and I mean maybe
2:13:56
Speaker 1: you didn't understand what that cost would have been when
2:13:58
Speaker 1: you first initially came forward with the story, But over
2:14:01
Speaker 1: the past thirty years it's been immense. It's been great,
2:14:04
Speaker 1: and I just want to thank you for that and
2:14:06
Speaker 1: thank you for all these people that would not have
2:14:09
Speaker 1: gotten this information. It would not have really had this
2:14:12
Speaker 1: story any other way. Oh, thanks Joe, thank you, and
2:14:15
Speaker 1: thank you Jeremy. And one more time. The documentary is
2:14:18
Speaker 1: available on Netflix right now.
2:14:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called Bob Lazar Area fifty one Flying Saucers.
2:14:23
Speaker 1: All right, that's it, folks, good night, Thank you
2:14:29
Speaker 2: JA yeah d