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S2E5: Uncouth Barbarian · Black Ibis Social Club

0:07
SPEAKER_02: Hey, welcome back to the Black Ibis Social Club.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: Once again, it's a beautiful afternoon in South Carolina.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: Got Mr. Fisto Sobani over here coming in from Florida.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: And today's guest at the clubhouse is Mr.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: Uncouth Barbarian himself,
0:28
SPEAKER_02: a guest who I've wanted to have on the podcast for a while now.
0:31
complete up-and-comer on the Substack of stan scene one of the
0:36
best writers in my
0:37
opinion what's up uncouth welcome to the club man thank you
0:42
thank you just uh
0:43
sitting and enjoying some coffee gotta keep awake because these
0:47
children man
0:48
they're running me around these days yeah i feel you man my uh
0:52
i just uh sent mine
0:54
SPEAKER_02: off to dance and uh
0:56
SPEAKER_02: That's when I get a chance to record.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, dance time, let's record.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: So I have a nice window.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: You know what's crazy, Fisto?
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what?
1:06
SPEAKER_02: It is 70 freaking degrees right now here in South Carolina where I'm at.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: Dang.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: Exactly a week ago.
1:14
it was 20 degrees and completely like had like two feet of snow
1:18
on my front.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: Like I couldn't even leave.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: Now,
1:21
SPEAKER_02: the cool thing that happened is that because of the snow,
1:25
SPEAKER_02: the sudden snow,
1:26
SPEAKER_02: nobody expected that much snow.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I thought I was going to like dust for like a minute and then that's it.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: But the snow, it did not stop and it lasted well until Friday.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: So I didn't have to go to work.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: Because it was Martin Luther King Day on Monday.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: I didn't go to work.
1:43
And I went to work for a half day on Tuesday because they were
1:45
all paranoid about
1:47
SPEAKER_02: the icy road conditions starting in the afternoon.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: So everybody just kind of left early.
1:51
So I didn't go to work more than like four hours the entirety
1:54
of last week.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
1:56
SPEAKER_02: You know what I did?
1:57
And this is going to probably make for me not as being as
2:00
interesting this episode.
2:02
Because I didn't go to work,
2:03
I decided to like disconnect from like the world.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: I didn't look at my phone or anything like that.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: I put in one of those like automated messages for work.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, if you really need me, blah, blah, blah.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: And yeah.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: I lived off the grid for a few days.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: I think I checked Substack twice.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: So unfortunately, because of that, I have no idea.
2:26
We usually comment on stuff that happened the last few days or
2:29
something like that,
2:30
SPEAKER_02: or all the discourse,
2:32
SPEAKER_02: whatever the fuck it's called.
2:33
I have nothing to talk about because I have no idea what people
2:36
have been talking
2:37
SPEAKER_00: about on Substack.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: I can't think of anything you've missed, really.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: And that's good.
2:42
Yeah,
2:43
I'm not sure if that's great for Substack because there really
2:46
wasn't anything going on.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
2:48
maybe the only thing that maybe struck me as amusing is there
2:51
have been a lot of
2:51
SPEAKER_00: people leaking documents about things that have changed or like,
2:55
SPEAKER_00: you know,
2:56
SPEAKER_00: dictates that are coming out from the new administration.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of them are more funny to me than anything else.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not like, oh my gosh, I'm so outraged.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: It's more like, aha.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
3:05
SPEAKER_02: I am following like,
3:07
SPEAKER_02: you know,
3:08
SPEAKER_02: I saw the whole deportation thing kind of started and all that.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: which I kind of want to talk about a little bit later on.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: I have some thoughts about that.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that idea.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: And also –
3:22
SPEAKER_02: I did, you know, the Oscar nominations got released.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: Listen, all right.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: I used to be the kind of Oscar nominations.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: I used to love, I used to love movie.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: I used to be a movie dork.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:32
Like every year I used to watch,
3:33
I used to watch the Academy Awards and I cared.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I just, I was like, this is kind of cool, you know?
3:41
SPEAKER_02: And in the last few years, I just, I've stopped caring completely.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: Like I, I actually took a minute to look at the list and
3:49
SPEAKER_02: And I have not seen one movie on the best picture list whatsoever.
3:58
And out of the movies on the best picture list,
4:01
I have no interest in seeing any of them.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: You've got the...
4:06
The Brutalist,
4:07
which is like Adian Brody playing another Holocaust survivor.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: Blah, blah, blah.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Boring.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Brutalism.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: Boring.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: You got Bob Dylan.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: What's his name?
4:17
SPEAKER_02: Dune Kid playing Bob Dylan or whatever.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: Don't care.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't like Bob Dylan whatsoever.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: I feel like he's the most boring, like, singer of all time.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: And, like, I never get Bob Dylan.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: I know some people are going to be like, oh, Bob Dylan's great.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: No, I don't get it.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay?
4:32
SPEAKER_02: Dude's voice sucks.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: And I...
4:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm just not interested.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: I know he's a good songwriter.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: I know he's a good songwriter,
4:39
but I'm just like – it's just something so dull and annoying
4:43
about it and New York
4:44
SPEAKER_02: about it that I can't stand.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: And I just – I don't know.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: And then what else is on there?
4:49
SPEAKER_02: Some movie about like a trans something that I don't care about.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: Wicked, which makes me want to vomit just seeing the previews for it.
5:00
You know,
5:00
there's actually one movie I kind of have slight interest in seeing,
5:04
and that's Anora.
5:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you saw previous for that one.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: No.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's about like some Russian dude that hires a hooker.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: All right.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm instantly interested now.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: I think the dude hires a hooker.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Done.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: He marries a hooker.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: The plot is like some.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
5:22
I think the plot is like a rich Russian kid of some rich family
5:26
goes to Vegas,
5:27
SPEAKER_02: meets Nora or whatever,
5:29
SPEAKER_02: who's like a call girl of some sort.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: And he falls in love with her and marries her.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: And then his family tries to break him up.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: But then it's like, it's not as it seems type of situation.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's like, there's stuff to it, you know?
5:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's something deep down going on inside.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: That's like the only one that slightly interests me.
5:47
And,
5:47
you know,
5:48
I saw like,
5:49
the only movies on the list I saw,
5:50
like,
5:51
was all the animated movies.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: I actually saw a bunch of shows because of my kid.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, are you a movie guy, Uncuth?
5:57
SPEAKER_03: Man, yeah.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: Depends on what it is.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: So the last movie I saw in theaters was one of the three Hobbit movies.
6:06
SPEAKER_03: And at that point, I'm a really big Hobbit fan.
6:10
SPEAKER_03: I just wrote off new movies completely.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: I have Amazon Prime, so I'll watch stuff that comes on Amazon Prime.
6:19
SPEAKER_03: And I watch a bunch of series and stuff because it helps me sleep.
6:23
SPEAKER_03: I have issues sleeping.
6:26
SPEAKER_03: But new movies, me and my wife will sit down.
6:31
We have a preference for foreign movies and stuff like that
6:37
just because we eat the trash.
6:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
6:41
because they're better yeah so like silence immigrant no no we
6:46
love though you're
6:47
right we love the stuff that comes out of russia like russian
6:50
foreign films are
6:52
SPEAKER_03: amazing um some of the stuff that comes out of uh india is hit or miss um
7:01
it really just depends on what kind of style they go through
7:06
like there's a lot of
7:07
hedonism in the indian movies um and those can be really like
7:13
those put us off but
7:14
some of them are just like stylistically the colors and the
7:20
like romance and stuff
7:21
SPEAKER_03: in them is just stunning um
7:26
so like we we can get into those um my wife being a woman
7:32
obviously loves the jane
7:34
austen style romances um and stuff like that you know i do i do
7:39
too because i'm a
7:40
spiritual homosexual so i actually like on my uh winter there
7:47
was something off
7:47
SPEAKER_02: about my snowstorm vacation i re-watched the recent the recent emma um
7:56
with uh anna taylor joy as emma and i actually i saw it i saw
8:00
it when it came out
8:01
and i just my wife was re-watching it and i started to sat down
8:04
and watched it with
8:05
her and i really liked that version of it like i think it's
8:08
actually really good i
8:09
SPEAKER_02: i
8:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm a sucker for that era of dress and behavior, if that makes sense.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: No, it does.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: There's something that I got excited about.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, sorry.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: I was just going to say,
8:23
SPEAKER_03: I don't remember which version of it I saw,
8:27
SPEAKER_03: but man,
8:28
SPEAKER_03: it was feminist trash.
8:29
SPEAKER_03: So like the...
8:31
SPEAKER_03: Pride and Prejudice ones,
8:33
I'm always hit and miss on because modernism just seeps into
8:37
them so easily that it
8:40
SPEAKER_03: gets really frustrating for me.
8:41
SPEAKER_03: Right.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: The most recent, not Pride and Prejudice, not Emma, what's the other one?
8:50
SPEAKER_02: With the girl that reads and, oh man, Little Women.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: That one was pretty heavy handed on the,
8:59
the shit livery but even that was a pretty decent adaptation
9:02
you know uh but i
9:04
thought the one with anna taylor joy was actually pretty good
9:06
it wasn't it didn't
9:08
nothing struck me as obnoxiously you know um the the best um
9:15
the the best uh
9:17
version of of uh emma's like the modern remake or whatever or
9:21
what's the what's the
9:22
one called do you know what i'm talking about um not ringing a
9:26
bell sorry nope
9:30
let me see i'll tell you right now look it up look it up while
9:33
you're looking that
9:34
up something that i got excited about this week in class we're
9:38
doing japan and
9:40
we're talking about the tokugawa shogunate and i haven't yet
9:45
watched shogun so i'm
9:48
going to be putting that on my list of things to watch checked
9:51
out the trailer
9:52
SPEAKER_00: today and it was like holy crap this looks awesome
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Those that don't know, it's based on a book called Shogun.
10:00
And apparently,
10:01
there was an English sailor that that book was based off of.
10:06
The guy served under,
10:07
I have to look up the guy's name,
10:08
but he served under Francis Drake.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: Headed up to Japan.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Got shipwrecked.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: Joined up, or not joined up, but was basically, you know, imprisoned.
10:19
And then the guy ends up rising up the ranks of the shogunate
10:22
and becomes a samurai
10:24
SPEAKER_00: and like a key figure in Tokugawa's court.
10:27
lives to be 55 years old,
10:29
has a couple of kids out in Japan and freaking dies out there.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what a freaking life.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Holy crap.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: His name was William Adams.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: William.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: I remember it was bill.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: So the, the cool, the cool story, I actually have a cool story.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: You might dig.
10:44
I'm going to,
10:44
by the way,
10:44
the movie I was thinking about was clueless with Alicia silver.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Oh, geez.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: That's actually Emma.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: It's just the, you know,
10:51
SPEAKER_00: We're going to get burned down for forgetting Clueless.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I forgot Clueless.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: It just came to me.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: But William Adams, right?
10:57
SPEAKER_02: So interesting kind of story.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: I read... The novel itself, Shogun, is written by James Clavlo, right?
11:05
SPEAKER_02: James Clavlo himself is a fascinatingly interesting guy.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: He, I believe, was born in Hong Kong or Singapore.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: One of those two, right?
11:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: And he was...
11:21
interned in a japanese prisoner of war camp during world war ii
11:26
okay and he had
11:29
personal experience with it yeah he had personal experience
11:31
with the japanese and
11:33
his his first few novels were what i believe one is called king
11:37
rat and they were
11:38
about uh like a japanese pow camp and like people like
11:44
americans surviving
11:45
SPEAKER_02: americans and british and like that kind of stuff surviving in a uh
11:50
Japanese internment camp during,
11:52
not internment camp,
11:52
but POW camp,
11:53
right?
11:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: So he was an Australian American.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: He, no, he was born in, let me see, where was he born?
12:01
SPEAKER_02: Sydney,
12:01
SPEAKER_02: Australia,
12:02
SPEAKER_02: but then he,
12:04
SPEAKER_02: he got captured in Java and imprisoned in Shanghai prison,
12:07
SPEAKER_02: Singapore by the Japanese.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: Great.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: So he has a lot of experience with the Japanese, right?
12:13
SPEAKER_02: Now Shogun itself,
12:15
is a is a fiction it's a historical fiction but it tracks
12:19
william uh william tells
12:22
uh william adams's story right and it's a fantastic novel and i
12:25
read it right as i
12:26
was moving to japan because i was like i was i was reading
12:29
everything japanese
12:30
right right in the in the novel i haven't seen the show even
12:34
though i've had people
12:36
SPEAKER_02: tell me that it's really good um
12:39
SPEAKER_02: in the novel, they call the main character Anjin, right?
12:47
SPEAKER_02: Anjin-san or Mira Anjin Anjin, right?
12:50
Which translates to pilot or navigator because William Adams
12:56
was the ship's navigator.
12:58
And one of the big important things in that era of sail was
13:02
having charts,
13:03
right?
13:04
SPEAKER_02: And a navigator, while not like a
13:07
SPEAKER_02: full blown officer in the same way as like the ship owners or the,
13:10
SPEAKER_02: you know,
13:10
SPEAKER_02: the captain of the ship and that kind of stuff.
13:12
The navigator was critical because they knew all the currents
13:16
and the wind patterns
13:17
SPEAKER_02: and they knew how to get there.
13:18
You know,
13:19
they were like in one of the most critical elements on a,
13:23
on a sailing vessel.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: So anyways, they call them Anjin pilot.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: That's what everybody called him.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:29
And when I was in Japan in the first few weeks and I just
13:33
finished a book and it's
13:34
SPEAKER_02: fresh in my mind,
13:36
SPEAKER_02: I am,
13:37
basically just hopping on trains just hopping on trains going
13:41
somewhere getting off
13:42
the train and walking around until i found another train i'd
13:45
hop on it and i walk
13:46
around that's what i would do i would just do that all by
13:48
myself uh in the middle
13:49
of winter just kind of like hopping on train to train ducking
13:53
into restaurants and
13:53
just trying to like go off the beaten path and i'm sitting on a
13:57
train and i see a
13:59
SPEAKER_02: train station named anjinzuka and i was like huh
14:03
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting, right?
14:05
SPEAKER_02: It's just like blah, blah, blah.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: So I get off on the train station.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: I look around some more.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: And I see this sign that says Anjin Park, Anjin Memorial.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what the hell?
14:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh, no.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: So I start walking.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: And I follow this path.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: And it's way uphill.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: It zigzags all the way up.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: And I come up to a giant memorial.
14:26
made by the Japanese government and the British government for
14:29
William Adams.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: Because that neighborhood,
14:33
SPEAKER_02: Anjinsuka,
14:35
SPEAKER_02: was the farmland or like the knighthood that Tokugawa gave him.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: The estate he was – Yeah, his estate, right, which made him into Samurai.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: Dang.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, this is freaking awesome.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: And I remember, like, I took a bunch of pictures and stuff.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: And I was so excited.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: I told my wife.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: She's like, yeah, it's cool.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
14:57
SPEAKER_02: And, yeah, it was really awesome.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, whoa.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: That was such a moment of, like, he wasn't buried there.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: He was buried across the country somewhere else in Japan.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: It was still really cool because, like, I was like, whoa.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, this is awesome.
15:12
That reminds me,
15:13
when I worked in Poland,
15:15
I was researching the town I was going to stay in.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: It's a little place called Tkoszalen,
15:19
SPEAKER_00: probably,
15:20
SPEAKER_00: what,
15:20
SPEAKER_00: an hour or so east of whatever that town's called now.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: My brain is saying Stetten, but basically the German border, right?
15:31
And I found out that it was one of the places where Dietrich
15:34
Bonhoeffer had set up
15:35
SPEAKER_00: an underground seminary.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: And I found a plaque that marked the place where he lived.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Building was, you know, something different.
15:42
But it was like,
15:44
here stayed,
15:44
you know,
15:45
Dietrich Bonhoeffer,
15:45
blah,
15:45
blah,
15:46
blah.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: So kind of like that.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Like you're like, oh, my God, this thing's here.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: This is incredible.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: This is cool.
15:53
that's really fun i love i love local history okay i yeah i
15:58
mean i listen i i used
16:01
to love you know macro history and battles and that kind of
16:04
stuff when i was young
16:06
now i tend to like local history and one thing i love about
16:10
south carolina is that
16:12
SPEAKER_02: there's so much local history you know like a few
16:16
a few miles from me is the secession tree where they,
16:19
you know,
16:19
seceded in the civil war.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: And there's all these old.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: The tree that started it all.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: It was the tree that started it all.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: And then there's always like fucking tree.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: There's all these pirate, like these pirate places.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Blackbeard was around here and like all this cool stuff, you know?
16:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, uncouth is into history too.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: So he probably has stories, right?
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you've seen a few historical things in your time.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: A little bit.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, this is cool stuff.
16:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
16:47
SPEAKER_02: look,
16:47
SPEAKER_02: it's not...
16:48
SPEAKER_02: The United States is,
16:49
SPEAKER_02: in a way,
16:50
SPEAKER_02: not as cool as Europe when it comes to historical stuff.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: Because in Europe, you kick some dirt and there's a Roman coin.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: Or like, oh, look.
16:59
You go into an alley to smoke a cigarette and there's some
17:03
Eastern Orthodox shrine
17:05
SPEAKER_02: that's been there for a thousand years in the middle of Bucharest,
17:07
SPEAKER_02: which is cool.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: You're like, oh, okay, I get it.
17:09
SPEAKER_02: But...
17:12
SPEAKER_02: There's still a lot of really cool stuff.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, your state, Florida, right?
17:16
SPEAKER_02: When I was in Florida about a year ago, I was in St.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: Augustine.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: And St.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: Augustine is, I believe, the oldest city in the United States.
17:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: Which is awesome.
17:28
And there was a Greek Orthodox church chapel that was built by
17:34
those original colonists.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: There was a,
17:36
SPEAKER_02: there was a group of Greek Orthodox,
17:39
SPEAKER_02: um,
17:40
SPEAKER_02: uh,
17:41
SPEAKER_02: workers or something like that,
17:42
SPEAKER_02: or sailors that settled along with the American,
17:45
SPEAKER_02: not American,
17:46
SPEAKER_02: but the,
17:46
SPEAKER_02: the English settlers.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: And, uh,
17:50
SPEAKER_02: I was like,
17:51
SPEAKER_02: whoa,
17:52
I did not expect an Orthodox chapel to be here in the middle of
17:56
the oldest city in
17:57
SPEAKER_02: the United States.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: There's all kinds of fun stuff when you go to cities and towns.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: When I was in Key West,
18:02
SPEAKER_00: go down to the custom house down there and find out,
18:05
SPEAKER_00: oh,
18:05
SPEAKER_00: this is where they decided on the
18:09
uh uss main investigation what the outcome of that was going to
18:12
be and it's like
18:13
all right that marks the end of the spanish empire and the rise
18:16
of the american
18:17
empire that's kind of a fun room to stand in right this is
18:20
where it went down yeah
18:22
i mean even california when they lived in california even
18:25
california has a lot of
18:26
SPEAKER_02: cool stuff because uh you know surprisingly it goes way back
18:31
because the mission system,
18:33
so there was,
18:34
I lived,
18:35
I lived for a long time.
18:37
I lived right across like a few blocks away from San Juan Capistrano,
18:42
which was,
18:43
SPEAKER_02: the big mission in California.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: But if the mission system,
18:47
SPEAKER_02: the way,
18:48
SPEAKER_02: the way they were set up in California was that they,
18:52
SPEAKER_02: the Catholics built a mission,
18:54
SPEAKER_02: a horse,
18:55
SPEAKER_02: a day's horse ride away from each other.
18:58
So the idea is that you could travel from mission to mission to mission,
19:02
you know,
19:03
each night.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: So you could spend the night in a different mission every night.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: So they start in Mexico and they go all the way up to,
19:11
SPEAKER_02: San Francisco, kind of the Northern California area.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: And some of them are,
19:17
SPEAKER_02: a lot of them are still used,
19:20
SPEAKER_02: actually used for,
19:21
SPEAKER_02: you know,
19:22
SPEAKER_02: for services for mass and stuff.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: And they're also like museums, but Santa Barbara mission is,
19:28
gorgeous like if you are a like a uh you know a catholic and
19:33
really enjoy like
19:34
catholic history in the united states the the missions are you
19:37
you have to see them
19:38
you know they're just beautiful and uh i used to go there all
19:41
the time even though
19:42
i'm not i'm not a roman catholic because i thought they were
19:45
just gorgeous in there
19:46
they're so well maintained with like these beautiful like roses
19:49
everywhere and they
19:49
SPEAKER_02: do special events and weddings and stuff and
19:52
But there's like a pilgrimage you can start up in San Francisco
19:54
and go all the way
19:55
SPEAKER_02: down to San Diego and hit all of the missions,
19:58
SPEAKER_02: the historical missions that have been there for 300 years.
20:03
SPEAKER_03: Nice.
20:04
SPEAKER_03: Which is cool.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: No, that'd be fun to do too, man.
20:09
SPEAKER_03: Do like a hike, do it on foot or on a mule.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Real quick, I got to grab some water.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Be back in two seconds.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, while you're doing that, we completely got sidetracked.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: Uncuth is a substech writer,
20:23
SPEAKER_02: and his focus,
20:25
SPEAKER_02: guys listening in,
20:26
SPEAKER_02: right,
20:27
SPEAKER_02: is he writes from – I'm pretty sure – correct me if I'm wrong,
20:32
SPEAKER_02: but from a Roman Catholic perspective,
20:36
SPEAKER_02: and you write on about cities –
20:40
SPEAKER_02: Polites, and you really put a big focus on Aristotle and St.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: Thomas Aquinas, correct?
20:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you got that exactly right.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, focusing on Polites, mostly because...
20:55
SPEAKER_03: Like this whole country has been fake and gay since the 50s,
21:01
SPEAKER_03: at least,
21:02
because the government is just trying to break us all down and
21:06
break us apart
21:07
SPEAKER_03: because it wants us to be tax slaves.
21:12
SPEAKER_03: And it's done a wonderful job of it.
21:14
SPEAKER_03: And we can see this playing out right now with like the H-1B stuff.
21:20
SPEAKER_03: Like it's bringing in indentured servants.
21:24
because it wants us just to be tax slaves and lower our wages
21:29
and everything else.
21:31
So it's just like I'm in a really tight knit community and I
21:36
see this stuff playing out.
21:39
And I started writing kind of just to focus my own thoughts and
21:45
everything else.
21:46
SPEAKER_03: And it just has been fun and it kind of took off.
21:50
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: Well,
21:54
SPEAKER_02: I've been a fan of your writing for a while now,
21:56
SPEAKER_02: and you write really good pieces,
22:01
SPEAKER_02: and you write a lot,
22:01
SPEAKER_02: actually.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: If you go onto your sub stack, you have a lot of articles.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: They're all pretty short, which is good.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: I think they're fantastic starting points for thoughts and discussions.
22:13
You write the kind of essays that I read,
22:16
and then I want to sit down and talk to Fisto about.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: you know?
22:20
SPEAKER_02: And, and that's the kind of stuff that I want to talk to you about.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: And that's the whole point of this podcast is,
22:26
SPEAKER_02: you know,
22:26
SPEAKER_02: to kind of highlight some of the great writing on Substack,
22:29
SPEAKER_02: whether it's fiction or nonfiction or,
22:31
SPEAKER_02: and just really just have a conversation,
22:33
SPEAKER_02: you know?
22:33
SPEAKER_02: And that's,
22:34
I think that's why I enjoy kind of going off on these tangents
22:37
about James Clavel
22:38
SPEAKER_02: and stuff.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
22:42
I was kind of not fibbing,
22:45
but I do still follow what things are going on and everything.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things on the...
22:53
SPEAKER_02: I guess the right sphere or the right O sphere ever since,
22:56
SPEAKER_02: you know,
22:57
SPEAKER_02: the whole H one B nonsense started on X back on Christmas.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: And even before you have the word elite thrown out a lot.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: Everybody's elite.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you've got to be an elite maxer and blah, blah, blah.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: And, and that kind of thing.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: And,
23:14
SPEAKER_02: I,
23:14
SPEAKER_02: you know,
23:15
I got blocked by many individuals specifically earlier in last
23:20
year and over the
23:21
SPEAKER_02: summer because I'm not a fan of that concept.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm not a fan of the elite, right?
23:27
SPEAKER_02: And I think that I associate anybody that uses that word or says,
23:32
SPEAKER_02: you know,
23:33
SPEAKER_02: we need to be elite,
23:33
SPEAKER_02: we need to do this with grifting,
23:35
SPEAKER_02: okay?
23:36
I see immediately it triggers my little grifting bells,
23:40
my alarm bells in the back of my head.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: And the question I have,
23:46
and I know this is a topic you've touched on and that's why I'm
23:47
bringing it up,
23:48
SPEAKER_02: right?
23:49
A question I have for the greater people listening and the
23:54
greater conversation is,
23:55
SPEAKER_02: what is an elite person?
23:58
SPEAKER_02: What do these people mean when they say to be elite?
24:02
SPEAKER_02: Do you want to try to answer that for me, what they're trying to say?
24:05
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm not buying it.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:08
SPEAKER_03: I think what people say when they mean elite is...
24:14
SPEAKER_03: they want to be a super special person, at least in America.
24:20
So you look at America,
24:22
and we're kind of filled with a bunch of Gnosticism.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: And just for listeners,
24:29
SPEAKER_03: if you don't know what Gnosticism is,
24:31
SPEAKER_03: it's this idea that there is a class of people that are...
24:39
um special and god chosen that are like a part of people that
24:50
are able to grasp a
24:53
SPEAKER_03: special kind of knowledge or special skills and you see this with like
25:00
SPEAKER_03: conspiracy theories and all this other kind of stuff.
25:05
SPEAKER_03: And it runs rampant throughout society.
25:08
SPEAKER_03: But you see this also with this elitist stuff.
25:12
And the right seems to want to create this world where
25:18
everyone's elite and there's
25:22
SPEAKER_03: no place for non-elites.
25:25
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know about you,
25:27
SPEAKER_03: Alexandria,
25:28
SPEAKER_03: or you,
25:28
SPEAKER_03: Fisto,
25:29
but I've been writing and blogging under different names and
25:34
pseudonyms for like 10 years.
25:38
SPEAKER_03: And...
25:42
SPEAKER_03: I just got so fed up with it back in the dark enlightenment days,
25:51
because people were trying to create this idea of a new
25:56
feudalism type of thing,
25:59
SPEAKER_03: but they didn't ever see themselves as the peasants.
26:03
SPEAKER_03: No one had any room for themselves being a peasant.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: That was always something that struck me,
26:11
SPEAKER_00: that all these thinkers in the Neverpods,
26:13
SPEAKER_00: that maybe they're going to be just the normal people.
26:15
And also,
26:16
in my mind,
26:16
it's like,
26:17
if you're elite,
26:18
you don't have to say so.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: It's just, it's not even spoken.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: It's like...
26:25
SPEAKER_00: It's like my dad declaring to me he's my father.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, he's just my father.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: I've always known this.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like you have two heads.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
26:33
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, yeah.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: To quote our previous guest,
26:37
SPEAKER_02: librarian of Kelano,
26:40
SPEAKER_02: just because you're afraid of the light does not mean you're a dark elf.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: You know,
26:45
SPEAKER_02: and which is,
26:47
SPEAKER_02: you know,
26:47
SPEAKER_01: it's a,
26:48
SPEAKER_02: it's a dig on those guys,
26:49
SPEAKER_02: but yeah,
26:49
SPEAKER_02: you're,
26:49
SPEAKER_02: you're absolutely right.
26:50
They're barbarian because you know what,
26:54
you know,
26:54
you have to define elite.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: And one thing,
26:57
and you've mentioned this in your last essay or one of your
27:00
previous recently
27:02
SPEAKER_02: essays is that,
27:03
SPEAKER_02: and I fully agree when I was reading,
27:05
SPEAKER_02: I was like,
27:05
SPEAKER_02: yes,
27:06
SPEAKER_02: I agree,
27:06
SPEAKER_02: man.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm with you.
27:08
Is that so much of this elite talk is really just being part of
27:14
the system and
27:15
SPEAKER_02: being better at the system,
27:17
SPEAKER_02: which to me is you're saying,
27:18
SPEAKER_02: so you're going to try to,
27:20
SPEAKER_02: you know,
27:20
SPEAKER_02: in a conversation that's been going around about,
27:23
SPEAKER_02: you know,
27:24
SPEAKER_02: working at freaking,
27:26
SPEAKER_02: what was it?
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Panda Express or something like that, right?
27:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Chipotle.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Chipotle or whatever, right?
27:34
The conversation is always like,
27:35
well,
27:35
you know,
27:35
you got to be job maxing.
27:37
You got to have two jobs and steal from your corporation and
27:43
you got to be Patrick
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Bateman from American Psycho and that type of thing.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: And is that elite?
27:49
SPEAKER_02: Is that what elite means?
27:50
Elite means to be the best banker,
27:52
to be the best investment banker asshole.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
27:55
SPEAKER_02: To me, that seems like,
27:57
a morally and spiritually bankrupt position and if that's what
28:02
being elite means if
28:03
being elite means that i'm the kind of guy that like you know
28:06
is making six figures
28:08
and i'm slaving away at some freaking marketing job or some
28:11
advisory firm or
28:12
something like that you know i'd rather be homeless okay i i'd
28:16
rather be homeless
28:16
because that that that's not the life i want to live it seems
28:19
that the advice that
28:20
these people give is just become part of the system and just be
28:23
good at the system
28:25
SPEAKER_02: which is no different than just being a liberal.
28:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
28:29
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
28:30
so being elite is always going to mean being the top of
28:36
whatever society you choose
28:37
SPEAKER_03: to be a part of,
28:39
SPEAKER_03: which means that if you choose to be that kind of elite,
28:44
you are implicitly choosing that you're going to join the
28:48
system that you're
28:49
SPEAKER_03: choosing to be elite of.
28:51
SPEAKER_03: So, like, if you want to make a...
28:57
SPEAKER_03: Like what I write about,
29:00
SPEAKER_03: you are literally redefining what elite is,
29:05
SPEAKER_03: which means that if I'm in my writing,
29:10
SPEAKER_03: defining it as Aristotelian virtues and building a family and...
29:17
SPEAKER_03: building a community and growing in virtue, that's the new elite.
29:22
SPEAKER_03: That's literally what I'm talking about.
29:25
SPEAKER_03: If by elite you mean I'm going to get lots of money,
29:30
SPEAKER_03: be able to employ people,
29:34
SPEAKER_03: work at a fame company,
29:35
SPEAKER_03: do this,
29:36
SPEAKER_03: do that,
29:36
SPEAKER_03: do that,
29:37
SPEAKER_03: and shut my mouth when it's required of me,
29:41
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's fine.
29:42
SPEAKER_03: That's your definition of elite,
29:45
SPEAKER_03: because that's what the society that you are involved in,
29:50
SPEAKER_03: and that's their definition of elite.
29:52
SPEAKER_03: That's your choice.
29:53
SPEAKER_03: Right.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: And I'll pontificate a little bit here.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: I am opposed to that society.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: I believe that
30:05
to be a truly spiritual and good individual,
30:11
you've got really two choices,
30:13
right?
30:13
SPEAKER_02: And you guys can please feel free to call me out and criticize it.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: I think you have the choice of
30:23
breaks basically living your own life living your own truthful
30:26
life uh with a moral
30:28
compass for example you need to have a religion or a strong
30:32
spiritual or uh you
30:34
know i would say metaphysical belief system uh that that
30:39
basically you're focused
30:40
on that is separate from the mainstream materialist system and
30:45
you have to be able
30:45
SPEAKER_02: to live that truth and then the other way
30:48
is to do a full rejection of that which is i would say like you
30:52
know the bapist
30:53
kind of mindset right right where you're just doing your own
30:57
thing going to
30:57
thailand and sleeping with hookers and stuff you know like the
31:00
artist kind of uh
31:01
degenerate lifestyle which is not for everybody and it should
31:04
not be encouraged for
31:05
SPEAKER_02: anybody but some people need to live on the edge um but
31:11
SPEAKER_02: What a lot of people are going to see in the next year,
31:13
SPEAKER_02: in the next few years,
31:14
SPEAKER_02: right,
31:15
SPEAKER_02: is that so many of the people now that are,
31:18
SPEAKER_02: you know,
31:19
SPEAKER_02: running for the top,
31:20
SPEAKER_02: the elite game or whatever,
31:21
SPEAKER_02: right,
31:22
SPEAKER_02: they would be liberals 20 years ago.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: Because the politics game is a game, right?
31:31
SPEAKER_02: There's ultimately no moral core to it.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: It's a power game and a materialist game, right?
31:39
SPEAKER_02: Patrick Bateman from American Psycho, right?
31:43
SPEAKER_02: Who is not an aspirational good figure whatsoever.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: He's an empty shell of a human being, right?
31:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:48
Patrick Bateman would be a Republican when Republicans are in
31:51
charge because that's
31:52
SPEAKER_02: the good thing to be.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: And he'd be a liberal if, you know, they were in charge, right?
31:58
SPEAKER_02: So 10, 15 years ago, the, um,
32:02
The apex of political and cultural power was liberalism or
32:06
progressive liberalism.
32:07
SPEAKER_02: So those kind of people flock to it.
32:10
SPEAKER_02: And now you see them realize that, whoa, it's lost its social capital.
32:15
So the same people that would have become liberals five years
32:17
ago are just switching sides.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: But they're the same people.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: Deep down inside,
32:22
they are hollow materialists that have nothing really to offer
32:26
to anybody except
32:28
SPEAKER_02: their own gain,
32:29
SPEAKER_02: you know?
32:29
SPEAKER_02: So to me,
32:30
it doesn't matter if the guy on the boat that's impoverishing
32:34
me and owns the
32:36
SPEAKER_02: company that I'm getting laid off for because he's hiring H-1B visas is a
32:41
Republican or a Democrat because they're really the same
32:43
fucking person and they
32:44
SPEAKER_02: hang out with each other.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: And that's my view.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: You're either a materialist or you're not.
32:51
SPEAKER_03: So I would agree with you, Alexandru.
32:54
I would simply say that the definition of being a good human
32:59
being does not always
33:01
SPEAKER_03: match up with being an elite.
33:03
SPEAKER_03: And that if we want to build a good society,
33:07
SPEAKER_03: we need to make those two definitions match because right now they don't.
33:14
And that the people that talk about being an elite person in
33:21
the dissident right
33:22
SPEAKER_03: often are not trying to make those two match.
33:26
SPEAKER_03: They don't care.
33:29
Or they don't see a path forward and talk about making that
33:32
path come forward.
33:35
SPEAKER_03: So that's what I would have to say about that.
33:37
No,
33:38
you're absolutely right because imagine yourself,
33:45
you're coming out of a good college.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: It's 2005 and you're in California or New York, right?
33:53
SPEAKER_02: And you wanted to have power.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: You wanted to have elite money or whatever, right?
34:00
SPEAKER_02: You would not be a Republican, right?
34:02
SPEAKER_02: All right,
34:02
like the writing on the wall is very clearly that that would
34:07
have been a bad call
34:08
SPEAKER_02: for anybody,
34:09
SPEAKER_02: all right?
34:10
Because it was in the era of George Bush where it was very
34:15
passe to be on the right.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: There was nothing cool there.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: And you wanted to get into Silicon Valley
34:22
or you wanted to get into the media industrial complex that the
34:26
liberals control,
34:27
SPEAKER_02: so you'd be a shitlib 100% if you're going for elite status in that time,
34:32
SPEAKER_02: right?
34:33
SPEAKER_02: And that's what the math is when you have no moral core in the elitism.
34:37
The idea of wealth and power do not connect with any type of a
34:42
greater good or
34:43
SPEAKER_02: greater overall spiritual being,
34:46
SPEAKER_02: you know?
34:48
SPEAKER_02: I think we're going to get a shock.
34:49
A lot of people are going to get a shock when they realize that
34:51
that's the case.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: And you see this.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can see the rats jumping off the ship.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: You can see it on Substack.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: And they're changing ships.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: The plague rats are coming because those people will always be there.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, all countries are run by that.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: If you looked at,
35:09
SPEAKER_02: you know,
35:10
SPEAKER_02: you wrote a pretty good piece a while ago,
35:11
SPEAKER_02: a co-piece about Yugoslavia,
35:14
SPEAKER_02: right?
35:14
And I personally have a lot of experience with Eastern Europe
35:17
and Eastern European
35:18
SPEAKER_02: like post-communism,
35:20
SPEAKER_02: right?
35:20
SPEAKER_02: And anybody from Eastern Europe will tell you that once communism fell,
35:26
SPEAKER_02: the communists didn't go away.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: They just became progressive liberals, right?
35:30
SPEAKER_02: They just changed pins.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: What hat do I need to wear?
35:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
35:36
SPEAKER_02: they saw which way the wind was blowing,
35:38
SPEAKER_02: pushed the old guys out,
35:40
and the elite basically just started spouting European
35:44
Union-type platitudes,
35:46
SPEAKER_02: and here we are.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: It's the same shit as it was before, but now it's a different color hat.
35:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: So you're going to see that.
35:57
You're going to see a lot of that because ultimately it is –
36:02
that's the real cut
36:03
SPEAKER_02: between people,
36:04
SPEAKER_02: you know,
36:05
SPEAKER_02: which kind of leads me to another interesting thing that I've noticed.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: And,
36:09
SPEAKER_02: you know,
36:10
SPEAKER_02: you've mentioned and discussed it a little bit,
36:12
SPEAKER_02: but I don't see it discussed at all when people talk about elitism and,
36:16
SPEAKER_02: you know,
36:16
SPEAKER_02: and getting ahead in the world and that kind of stuff,
36:20
SPEAKER_02: right?
36:22
One of the problems that we have in this kind of Nietzschean
36:25
kind of outlook on
36:26
SPEAKER_02: politics is the question is,
36:28
SPEAKER_02: what do we do with non-elites,
36:32
SPEAKER_02: right?
36:33
SPEAKER_02: Like, what do we do?
36:34
SPEAKER_02: What is the answer?
36:35
SPEAKER_02: What is the right-wing answer for stupid people?
36:41
SPEAKER_02: Or lazy people?
36:43
SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, because let's be honest, right?
36:46
SPEAKER_02: Every country, all people...
36:48
SPEAKER_02: There's a huge percentage of individuals that aren't elite.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: They're not special.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: You can't have elite if everybody's elite, right?
36:55
SPEAKER_02: So how does a leader take care of the dumb people,
37:00
SPEAKER_02: the guy that just wants to grill,
37:01
the guy that just wants to watch football and sleep with his
37:04
wife and have kids and
37:07
SPEAKER_02: throw rocks at walls or whatever people do,
37:10
SPEAKER_02: right?
37:11
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting because you got to stop and realize,
37:14
SPEAKER_00: okay,
37:14
SPEAKER_00: well,
37:14
SPEAKER_00: what exactly do we mean by non-lead?
37:16
do we mean the guy that grills and has a wife and kids and i
37:21
mean are we talking
37:22
about just normal baseline humans are we talking about folks
37:26
that require an
37:27
SPEAKER_00: investment of time love and energy in order to
37:31
have any kind of life like with properly you know retarded
37:36
disabled and i mean that
37:37
classically not shut up retard um you know like classically
37:41
folks who need help the
37:42
poor the the the disabled the the infirm the sick right well
37:49
what exactly do we
37:49
mean by that it's actually both right so it's anybody it's just
37:53
anybody who's not
37:54
them yeah so let me quantify it real fast for barbarians i want
37:57
your answer
37:58
SPEAKER_02: barbarian right but i wanted to clarify that right
38:00
If you are the elite striver that is job maxing and doing
38:05
everything that these
38:06
SPEAKER_02: guys are giving you advice to do,
38:08
SPEAKER_02: right?
38:09
SPEAKER_02: You're still a small percentage of the overall population, right?
38:13
SPEAKER_02: So what happens to the two other categories like you just described?
38:17
SPEAKER_02: The guys that are just normies, right?
38:19
SPEAKER_02: that are not going to be maxing because they don't want to,
38:22
SPEAKER_02: or they don't have the drive,
38:23
SPEAKER_02: or they're just like,
38:24
SPEAKER_02: you know,
38:24
SPEAKER_02: you know,
38:25
SPEAKER_02: Delta kind of guys,
38:26
SPEAKER_02: you know?
38:27
SPEAKER_02: And then what do you do as a society with the dredges,
38:30
SPEAKER_02: the people that either can't even be mid,
38:33
SPEAKER_02: right?
38:34
SPEAKER_02: Or are,
38:35
SPEAKER_02: you know,
38:35
SPEAKER_02: for whatever reason,
38:36
SPEAKER_02: drug addled or insane or homeless or just degenerates or,
38:40
SPEAKER_02: you know,
38:41
SPEAKER_02: you're,
38:41
SPEAKER_02: you're crazy freaking people,
38:43
SPEAKER_02: right?
38:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:44
you need a population,
38:47
a country,
38:48
a nation is made up of all these type of people,
38:51
right?
38:52
SPEAKER_02: So we have to address those groups.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: If you're talking about elite, what is your answer?
38:57
SPEAKER_02: You know, dark elf, you know,
38:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
39:00
So you are anticipating at least where I'm planning on going
39:05
with the current
39:07
SPEAKER_03: series that I'm at in terms of stuff.
39:10
So this is going to be rough answers and not as detailed as
39:15
I'll probably get into
39:16
SPEAKER_03: with the writing.
39:18
SPEAKER_03: But like...
39:20
as you're saying these people like they deserve to participate
39:25
in the common good
39:26
of society like they they're generally like as you're saying
39:31
they're conflict
39:32
averse they want to do the nine to five job go home to their
39:36
wives they don't want
39:38
SPEAKER_03: the conflict they don't want hard choices they don't
39:44
SPEAKER_03: want to work more than what they're told they have to do.
39:49
SPEAKER_03: They want to follow the rules, stick to the plan, everything else.
39:54
SPEAKER_03: They're what Aristotle means by a natural slave,
39:58
SPEAKER_03: which is not he doesn't mean anything derogatory by that,
40:02
which is what blows people's minds because they read the
40:07
translation slave and they
40:08
SPEAKER_03: think people in chains.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: And that's not what he means.
40:15
And people should get away from that and stop thinking
40:20
derogatorily about that
40:22
because even the Christian idea of that reading in scripture
40:26
doesn't think
40:26
SPEAKER_03: derogatorily of slaves.
40:30
SPEAKER_03: So we should just step away from all that.
40:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:35
SPEAKER_03: But this also gets into paying people justly and treating them justly.
40:41
Like,
40:42
you have to make sure that people are paid what they're owed
40:48
and not
40:50
like taking advantage of at work,
40:52
not giving prices or loans that take advantage of them.
40:58
Like you start having to enforce all kinds of things that we as
41:04
Americans would
41:06
think are authoritarian because we've been trained mentally to
41:12
think of them that way.
41:16
SPEAKER_03: But you have to start just going in and saying,
41:22
SPEAKER_03: no,
41:22
SPEAKER_03: you can't make agreements like Uber does to say,
41:28
SPEAKER_03: you know what?
41:30
SPEAKER_03: Taxis have unions because they've determined that Uber
41:36
SPEAKER_03: cars depreciate at this kind of rate and it takes this much money.
41:41
And Uber saying that these people have to have a nice car and
41:49
can fix their own
41:50
SPEAKER_03: rates and everything else undercuts the market and it's unfair.
41:55
Like and these guys are actually employees and they're not
41:59
independent contractors.
42:01
SPEAKER_03: And California is actually right.
42:04
SPEAKER_03: And those kinds of things need to be enforced.
42:09
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
42:12
So it gets into some kind of like things where you have to go
42:20
and take care of people.
42:22
SPEAKER_03: And it gets really crazy in the details.
42:26
SPEAKER_03: Right.
42:27
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, for all the left's ills, right?
42:32
SPEAKER_02: And I am obviously not a fan, right?
42:37
SPEAKER_02: The left does have...
42:40
SPEAKER_02: concept of that, okay?
42:43
Well,
42:43
I might not agree with it,
42:45
and the way they approach it,
42:46
I don't agree with it,
42:47
right?
42:48
SPEAKER_02: But they do have,
42:49
SPEAKER_02: in a way,
42:49
SPEAKER_02: a plan for their dredges of society,
42:53
SPEAKER_02: and they just don't have a plan for the middle,
42:56
SPEAKER_02: right?
42:57
SPEAKER_02: And that's where the left fails.
42:58
SPEAKER_02: The left fails because they don't have a plan for the middle, while the
43:02
SPEAKER_02: but they do have a plan for the drugs of society,
43:04
which is basically get them addicted to shit and keep them
43:08
happy with pornography
43:09
SPEAKER_02: and drugs and entertainment,
43:11
SPEAKER_02: you know,
43:12
SPEAKER_02: and get them,
43:13
SPEAKER_02: give them the basic needs or the basic wants,
43:16
SPEAKER_02: not the basic needs is what they're,
43:17
SPEAKER_02: they give them.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: And, uh, that's, that's a, that's the left's answer.
43:21
SPEAKER_02: The left answer is just, you know,
43:24
SPEAKER_02: Opium,
43:25
SPEAKER_02: you know,
43:25
SPEAKER_02: just feed them,
43:26
feed them with soy food and entertainment and video games and
43:31
all kinds of nonsense
43:33
SPEAKER_02: and tell them how special they are and they'll be happy,
43:36
SPEAKER_02: you know?
43:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: But the right doesn't really have an answer for those people,
43:40
SPEAKER_02: you know,
43:41
SPEAKER_02: because not everybody is Curtis Yarvin,
43:43
SPEAKER_02: all right?
43:44
SPEAKER_02: Not everybody,
43:45
SPEAKER_02: like,
43:46
SPEAKER_02: you know,
43:46
SPEAKER_02: I hate the idea of saying this about ourselves,
43:50
but the fact that we are well-read and we're even having this
43:54
conversation puts us
43:56
SPEAKER_02: you know, leaps and bounds above the average individual, all right?
44:00
This is an exclusive social club,
44:02
the Black Eyed Social Club,
44:03
Mephisto,
44:04
right?
44:04
SPEAKER_02: We don't- Absolutely.
44:06
SPEAKER_02: But we are,
44:07
SPEAKER_02: you know,
44:07
SPEAKER_02: ultimately,
44:07
the fact that we're even having this conversation and the level
44:11
of reading and
44:13
understanding and knowledge that we have is well above your
44:17
average individual,
44:18
SPEAKER_02: you know?
44:19
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we forget that a lot of times, right?
44:25
Us perpetually online autists sometimes forget that there's a
44:29
real world where if I
44:31
SPEAKER_02: cross the street right now and talk to my neighbor,
44:33
SPEAKER_02: he has no idea what the hell I'm even talking about,
44:35
SPEAKER_02: right?
44:36
I could just imagine it like some performance development
44:40
meeting at school or something.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, so guys, you know the enlightenment is bullshit, right?
44:44
SPEAKER_00: Like all that stuff just – I mean, my God, I'd be –
44:48
SPEAKER_00: I'd be running out on a rail.
44:50
SPEAKER_02: I could walk in my entire neighborhood,
44:53
SPEAKER_02: knock on the doors,
44:54
SPEAKER_02: and ask them what anybody thinks about Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas,
44:57
SPEAKER_02: and not one person.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: Who?
44:59
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
44:59
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: So the question is,
45:02
SPEAKER_02: if we are going to be leaders,
45:04
SPEAKER_02: if your elite people are going to be in charge—
45:07
SPEAKER_02: You have to have a program for these people, right?
45:12
SPEAKER_02: You have to.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: And you're right.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: You're right about Uber.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: Hold on, hold on.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: I want to make a pedantic quibble at one of the words you just used.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: do we really need a program or is it really a essence of virtue?
45:26
SPEAKER_00: A, this is, this is what it means.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: This isn't what people should be.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: This is what it means to be a person.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: You see what I mean?
45:35
SPEAKER_02: Right.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: Right.
45:36
SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: But leadership in a way I believe indicates, you know, taking charge.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: And if you're going to lead a,
45:45
SPEAKER_02: You have to have a plan, right?
45:48
SPEAKER_02: And you have to have a baseline, an answer.
45:53
Because once you're in charge,
45:54
you're going to get those questions,
45:56
right?
45:57
SPEAKER_02: And you have to look out for your people.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: When it comes to elite,
46:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
46:01
you have people who just want to have their house and they just
46:03
want to run the
46:04
SPEAKER_00: household and that's fine.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that is what that is.
46:08
when you're looking to lead other people and you're looking to
46:10
lead men and women
46:11
SPEAKER_00: and become a leader in a community,
46:13
SPEAKER_00: is that something that can be developed?
46:15
Is that something that could be trained or are we talking about
46:18
discovering leaders
46:20
SPEAKER_00: and then identifying them and going,
46:21
SPEAKER_01: Ooh,
46:22
SPEAKER_00: this guy's got the sauce.
46:24
Let's,
46:24
let's,
46:25
let's put him in positions where we can help him do the thing.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking of a couple of students of mine at one of the clubs I lead.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: I told the guy, listen, listen,
46:35
SPEAKER_00: come to the club,
46:35
SPEAKER_00: come with some ideas,
46:36
SPEAKER_00: come with some things you want to get done,
46:37
SPEAKER_00: things you want to do.
46:39
And when we started the meeting,
46:40
he was just like,
46:40
all right,
46:40
guys,
46:41
here's what's up.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: And then just ran it.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, there you go.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: All right.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: And that's just, I think it's like something intrinsic to that kid.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: All right.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: All right.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: Cause you're probably right.
46:53
Cause I've met the guy's parents and I mean,
46:56
Oh my God,
46:57
you want to talk about elite.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, these kids, these guys are running their show.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, and they have raised,
47:06
SPEAKER_03: So what I would say,
47:06
SPEAKER_03: Fisto,
47:07
SPEAKER_03: is as a leader,
47:10
SPEAKER_03: setting up an environment where you reward people,
47:15
employers and stuff like that for setting up areas or
47:21
environments where their
47:23
employees are able to make good choices and punish employees
47:29
for making bad choices.
47:30
SPEAKER_03: So, for instance,
47:34
there are so many employees that just go and show up to work
47:39
drunk and hungover or
47:41
SPEAKER_03: whatever else.
47:43
SPEAKER_03: And what do we do about that these days except continue to expand
47:50
ability for people to buy alcohol and buy it cold and buy it on
47:55
Sundays and buy it
47:57
in a grocery store and everything else and continue to expand
48:02
marijuana laws and
48:03
SPEAKER_03: continue to expand drug laws.
48:05
And like we're continuing to expand people's choice to drug
48:12
themselves out.
48:13
SPEAKER_03: rather than make good choices, virtuous choices.
48:18
SPEAKER_03: And we need to make it so that people aren't able to make those choices,
48:27
SPEAKER_03: like literally aren't able to make those choices.
48:30
So what do you do as a leader to make it so that they can't
48:36
make stupid choices?
48:38
SPEAKER_03: And people might be insulted that...
48:43
You make it so that dumb people can't make dumb choices or
48:47
punish them for making dumb choices.
48:50
SPEAKER_03: But I mean, that's what God does.
48:52
SPEAKER_03: I mean, God literally makes it so that you're hungover when you do that.
48:57
SPEAKER_03: And people are still too stupid to do it, to listen to that.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Reality does that.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: Make a dumb choice.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: You might kill yourself.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: Great job.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
49:09
And the Chinese are continuing to expand the marijuana
49:14
facilities and everything in the U.S.
49:16
SPEAKER_03: and take advantage of us expanding those laws.
49:21
SPEAKER_03: What are we doing about it?
49:22
SPEAKER_03: We're loaning them money to do it, which is retarded.
49:28
right it's absurd and you know we talk we know on substack
49:32
before i took my little
49:34
five-day hiatus you know that my big back and forth was over
49:37
the pornography
49:39
question you know and of course i got attacked by crazy
49:44
libertarians for even
49:46
SPEAKER_02: recommending that we curb pornography and i i
49:52
SPEAKER_02: I got accused of being a prudish right winger,
49:58
SPEAKER_02: which is funny because I'm far from being prudish.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: And I think that sensuality and eroticism are critical to art,
50:09
SPEAKER_02: but pornography does not count as either of those things.
50:12
SPEAKER_02: And it destroys sensuality and eroticism.
50:17
SPEAKER_02: But one of the arguments was, well, you can never ban it.
50:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, we banned cigarettes, okay?
50:24
SPEAKER_02: We basically illegalized smoking cigarettes, right, in my lifetime.
50:30
SPEAKER_02: People are always saying, oh, we can never ban this.
50:32
SPEAKER_02: There's always gonna be a black market for it.
50:33
Well,
50:35
even if we ban pornography,
50:37
which has no redeeming qualities whatsoever,
50:39
in my opinion,
50:42
SPEAKER_02: And we make it hard to get.
50:43
SPEAKER_02: And there's still like 10% of people that use it.
50:46
SPEAKER_02: That is, you know, 90% less use.
50:49
SPEAKER_02: All right.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: And we saw that with cigarettes.
50:53
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
50:54
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm 41 years old.
50:56
SPEAKER_02: And when I was a young kid,
50:58
SPEAKER_02: you know,
50:58
SPEAKER_02: in elementary school,
51:00
SPEAKER_02: middle school,
51:01
SPEAKER_02: you could still smoke a Denny's.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: And I remember there was restaurants that had outdoor smoking areas.
51:06
And,
51:06
you know,
51:07
you can,
51:07
my parents would sit in the smoking area because there were smokers.
51:10
SPEAKER_02: And even when I turned 18 and I could buy cigarettes,
51:13
there were still some smoking area restaurants that I could sit
51:17
in before it
51:18
SPEAKER_02: finally just all the laws in California came.
51:21
And we went from everybody smoking when I was a kid in the 80s
51:25
to it is now
51:27
SPEAKER_02: culturally and,
51:29
SPEAKER_02: you know –
51:33
SPEAKER_02: society frowns upon it, right?
51:36
SPEAKER_02: Where it's like, you can go buy cigarettes.
51:38
SPEAKER_02: You have to be 21, by the way.
51:39
SPEAKER_02: I just found that out.
51:40
SPEAKER_02: Like you have to be 21 to buy Zins, you know?
51:43
SPEAKER_02: But I didn't realize that.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: But now if you go light up a cigarette anywhere,
51:49
SPEAKER_02: anywhere I live here in the South,
51:51
SPEAKER_02: you looked upon like a social pariah,
51:53
SPEAKER_02: all right?
51:54
SPEAKER_02: Like the only people that smoke are like old people and like,
51:57
SPEAKER_02: you know,
51:58
SPEAKER_02: guys that are,
51:59
SPEAKER_02: you would say are coded like white trash or,
52:01
SPEAKER_02: you know,
52:03
SPEAKER_02: non-elite or the bottom of the barrel type individuals.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: And we did that in my lifetime.
52:11
SPEAKER_02: And you're telling me that we can't do that for pornography?
52:14
SPEAKER_00: It's funny,
52:15
SPEAKER_00: too,
52:15
SPEAKER_00: with the smoking,
52:16
SPEAKER_00: with the nicotine example,
52:17
SPEAKER_00: because all we've done is replace it with marijuana.
52:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: So, come on.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: And now everybody's vaping everywhere and all this stuff.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, at school, we don't have a problem with kids smoking.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're not looking for kids smoking in bathrooms.
52:31
They're freaking toking up in the bathrooms using vapes and all
52:34
this stuff and,
52:35
SPEAKER_00: like,
52:35
SPEAKER_00: all the food and,
52:36
SPEAKER_00: like...
52:37
SPEAKER_00: I can't even imagine how much of a nightmare it is.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: And in our town, it's not even that bad.
52:42
I mean,
52:42
I can imagine in some urban places where they've just had to de
52:46
facto give up.
52:48
they just can't enforce it you know i don't know but yeah it's
52:51
silly and it's just
52:53
like you don't even need to do it all at once like just imagine
53:00
with all these
53:00
cameras on all the devices what kind of shame and guilt could
53:05
do if you just said
53:06
you need to show an id and picture of yourself live every time
53:11
you signed on to a
53:12
SPEAKER_03: porn site
53:14
What kind of shame and everything could that get for people if
53:19
they thought that
53:20
SPEAKER_03: they had to log on and that would be tracked by someone somewhere?
53:25
SPEAKER_02: No,
53:25
SPEAKER_02: you know,
53:26
SPEAKER_02: it's funny because I won an argument against,
53:28
SPEAKER_02: an in-person argument against,
53:31
SPEAKER_02: we were debating pornography and its degeneracy and its value.
53:35
And there was a friend of mine and his coworker a few years ago
53:39
and we were talking about that.
53:41
SPEAKER_02: And I won our little debate because I was like,
53:44
SPEAKER_02: okay,
53:44
SPEAKER_02: you know,
53:45
SPEAKER_02: you're saying that pornography,
53:46
SPEAKER_02: you know,
53:46
SPEAKER_02: is good and it's fine and it's harmful or whatever and it's not shameful.
53:51
SPEAKER_02: Let me see your search history on pornography.
53:53
SPEAKER_02: Let me see it.
53:54
SPEAKER_02: Share it with us.
53:57
SPEAKER_02: You're not going to because you're ashamed.
53:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:00
SPEAKER_02: All right?
54:01
SPEAKER_02: Because it's fucking weird and degenerate.
54:04
SPEAKER_02: And you're ashamed of it because deep down you know that it's gross.
54:11
SPEAKER_02: And what you're looking at is gross and not good for one's soul.
54:15
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
54:16
SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you would show it to me.
54:18
SPEAKER_02: And he didn't.
54:20
SPEAKER_02: He didn't take my call.
54:23
It's interesting to me to think about it where it's not
54:27
embarrassing in my mind
54:30
SPEAKER_00: because it's sex.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: It's embarrassing in my mind because it's slop.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: I have better things to be doing with my time.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: I have better things to be doing with my energy.
54:42
Thinking about it now,
54:45
I can probably think about it much more clear-headedly because
54:49
I'm older.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: And that, you know, the drive for that has lessened somewhat.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm not a horny 18 year old anymore.
54:57
SPEAKER_00: Thank fuck for that.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Which probably makes me pause and go,
55:01
SPEAKER_00: God,
55:01
SPEAKER_00: even all the more the reason the adults need to step up and be like,
55:04
SPEAKER_00: OK,
55:04
SPEAKER_00: no,
55:05
SPEAKER_00: because when you're 18,
55:06
SPEAKER_00: 20 years old,
55:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
55:07
SPEAKER_00: you have no fucking clue what you're doing.
55:09
SPEAKER_02: Right.
55:09
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
55:11
SPEAKER_02: And then we we have we legally allow.
55:14
these pornography sites to be on our children's cell phones
55:18
what kind of a culture
55:19
what kind of a society does that what kind of a society does
55:22
that what kind of
55:23
culture gives them cell phones right right well yeah and and
55:26
again it it strikes me
55:28
that it really just it really just goes back to it's slop it's
55:34
mass-produced
55:36
SPEAKER_00: meaningless trash that gets shoveled
55:40
SPEAKER_00: And whether it's got titties or not,
55:42
this is not what people are meant to – this is not – people are
55:47
meant for better
55:48
SPEAKER_00: than this.
55:48
SPEAKER_02: Right.
55:49
SPEAKER_02: And,
55:49
SPEAKER_02: you know,
55:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to – I did not want to go too deep into the pornography thing,
55:53
but I kind of – because people are going to talk about this one specifically.
55:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm not a prudish person, okay?
56:02
I am – I will take criticism and I will accept the criticism
56:08
from the more –
56:10
Traditionally religious individuals in our circle that I tend
56:14
to be a lot more of a libertine,
56:16
SPEAKER_02: okay?
56:17
SPEAKER_02: And in my younger years, I was very much a liberal-minded, okay?
56:24
SPEAKER_02: And I...
56:26
SPEAKER_02: Adhere to the idea that you know what it's a woman's body.
56:29
SPEAKER_02: It's man's body You should just do it whatever,
56:32
you know and enjoy pornography's like I really bought hook line
56:36
and sinker the
56:37
whole idea of it being empowering or just kind of like it just
56:40
is you know and I
56:44
SPEAKER_02: I was personally never really into porn, for example.
56:47
SPEAKER_02: I never had a porn problem.
56:48
SPEAKER_02: I was like, eh, it's there.
56:50
I remember the first thing that would be considered porn that I
56:53
ever saw was
56:55
somebody in seventh grade brought a copy of Ginger Spice from
57:00
the Spice Girls in
57:01
SPEAKER_02: Playboy or whatever.
57:03
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, ooh, Ginger Spice.
57:04
SPEAKER_02: But it was dull.
57:07
SPEAKER_02: I never went out looking for it or anything like that.
57:10
But I still had a,
57:12
I would say,
57:12
a liberal empowerment viewpoint on it,
57:16
right?
57:17
SPEAKER_02: And in my early 20s,
57:19
SPEAKER_02: through friend of friends,
57:20
SPEAKER_02: through different party groups,
57:22
SPEAKER_02: I met this individual who worked in pornography.
57:26
SPEAKER_02: He was not a performer or whatever or a director,
57:31
SPEAKER_02: but he was like a light guy or something like that.
57:34
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
57:36
SPEAKER_02: He did like the lighting for movies and stuff.
57:39
SPEAKER_02: And he would tell me the stories of the kind of stuff that involved it.
57:42
SPEAKER_02: And it was all horrifying stuff.
57:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is horrible stuff.
57:45
SPEAKER_02: I can't even mention it without being banned from all the internet.
57:48
But one time he invited me to a party and there were like –
57:55
because people that do
57:56
degenerate stuff always want other people to join their
57:59
degeneracy kind of.
58:02
SPEAKER_02: There's something about that.
58:03
SPEAKER_02: There's like a kind of a –
58:06
uh an evil thing where you always want to bring in people into
58:10
your your your mess
58:12
right he invited me to party right so you know he invited me to
58:18
this thing and he's
58:20
like oh you know there's these like porn actresses they're
58:22
going to be there and
58:23
blah blah you should watch this video i'm like whatever i'll
58:26
give it a look you
58:27
SPEAKER_02: know and um i'm not going to tell you guys what
58:30
what company it was like a it was a big like uh if you're like
58:34
into like porn you
58:36
know i think you probably know who these people were so i went
58:40
to this party and i
58:42
was like open-minded liberal progressive feminist guy you know
58:45
it's me and i was
58:49
fully disgusted by every individual in that place right and
58:53
this is me like i'm
58:54
telling you like i was like the liberal atheist open-minded
58:58
dude and i was like oh
58:59
my god go to church fuck you know what i mean right there are
59:04
limits sir even with
59:06
this and it wasn't okay it wasn't like a weird like sex party
59:08
that i went to it was
59:09
SPEAKER_02: just a regular party people just hanging out you know and um
59:16
SPEAKER_02: The women, you know, were so just messed up.
59:20
SPEAKER_02: Like I could tell,
59:21
SPEAKER_02: even though I was like 21,
59:22
SPEAKER_02: 22 or something like that,
59:24
I could tell how like you could feel like the hollowness in
59:30
their souls when you
59:31
SPEAKER_02: talk to them.
59:34
SPEAKER_02: I can't even describe it.
59:36
SPEAKER_02: You could feel this emptiness.
59:40
SPEAKER_02: It's probably what Frodo felt like when he got touched by the wraiths.
59:44
SPEAKER_02: Stabbed through the shoulder.
59:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there was just something...
59:50
SPEAKER_02: It was so sad.
59:51
SPEAKER_02: And the guys, the males were just disgusting.
59:55
And I agree with the feminists that we need to hold the males
59:58
just as responsible,
1:00:00
SPEAKER_02: the consumers just as responsible.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_02: Because they were just disgusting people.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_02: And it was like a vaccine for pornography for me.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_02: I just could not...
1:00:15
SPEAKER_02: I just could not do it.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_02: I was just like, nope, I hate it.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_02: Like,
1:00:18
SPEAKER_02: I could never,
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: like,
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: it inoculated me from pornography,
1:00:22
SPEAKER_02: basically,
1:00:22
SPEAKER_02: because I was like,
1:00:24
SPEAKER_02: if I watch any porn,
1:00:25
SPEAKER_02: I can't because I feel like I'm taking part in like,
1:00:30
SPEAKER_02: human trafficking, basically.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:00:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, I just... It just feels like I'm an abuser.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_02: And it just... In a way, like... You looked under the hood.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: You looked under the hood.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_02: I looked under the hood and ruined it, right?
1:00:45
SPEAKER_02: And I felt like...
1:00:47
you know i i just i was done and it it it bothered me for a
1:00:52
while because it was
1:00:53
incongruent with my like more libertine liberal kind of mindset
1:00:57
so i coped by
1:00:59
SPEAKER_02: adopting a very feminist attitude towards pornography you know the the
1:01:03
anti-pornography feminist viewpoint which to me still makes
1:01:07
sense from that
1:01:08
SPEAKER_02: perspective um
1:01:10
but yeah they're you know it's gross you know what i mean it's
1:01:15
it's gross you're
1:01:15
watching people debase themselves for money and you know there
1:01:20
was that one girl
1:01:21
that slept with 100 dudes or whatever that was like the big
1:01:23
internet thing what two
1:01:25
weeks ago or three weeks ago i don't even know her name don't
1:01:28
care i don't even
1:01:29
SPEAKER_03: know but like
1:01:31
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_03: I haven't been in it under the hood as much as you have,
1:01:34
SPEAKER_03: but I would just encourage people,
1:01:37
SPEAKER_03: think about high school.
1:01:39
Has anyone listening to this ever kept in touch with people
1:01:43
from high school and
1:01:46
SPEAKER_03: known those people that become sleazy and everything?
1:01:50
SPEAKER_03: I know I have, and I've run into people that have...
1:01:56
been in like threesome relationships no no no i'm being serious
1:02:01
here i was laughing
1:02:02
i was only laughing because i thought to myself i haven't kept
1:02:04
in touch because i'm
1:02:05
afraid i'm that guy um but but i know like i've i've met people
1:02:12
that like have been
1:02:13
involved in like threesome relationships and been put in charge
1:02:17
of the children in
1:02:18
SPEAKER_03: the church i grew up in
1:02:20
like in sunday school oh yeah man like and i'm sure the church
1:02:26
doesn't know it but
1:02:27
like they're just you get this sleazy feeling from them and i
1:02:31
don't know how the
1:02:32
church doesn't feel it or anything else but like see they just
1:02:36
have this like
1:02:37
you're saying this emptiness in their soul and i'm sure it's
1:02:40
not as much as you
1:02:42
SPEAKER_03: felt alexandrew but like
1:02:44
SPEAKER_03: It's just there and it's gross.
1:02:48
And I've had it from guys that I've worked with in construction
1:02:53
and everything.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_03: It's just vile.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's funny to me.
1:02:59
I think a lot of that has to do with the transactional nature
1:03:02
of so many things.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_00: And you don't actually get to know anybody anymore these days.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_00: And for me,
1:03:07
SPEAKER_00: when I went on my prodigal walkabout,
1:03:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
1:03:10
SPEAKER_00: the first thing I did was leave church.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: I knew I wasn't.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't be there.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't have any kind of responsibility.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not still going to go there and be like,
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: so yeah,
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: all the shit I got up to this weekend.
1:03:23
No,
1:03:23
no,
1:03:23
that's not going to have at least some kind of internal consistency.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:03:28
SPEAKER_02: No.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I see.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
1:03:30
SPEAKER_02: that's a logical thing because while you left the body,
1:03:35
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:03:36
SPEAKER_02: it's,
1:03:38
SPEAKER_02: it's because you respected it in a way.
1:03:41
Well,
1:03:41
yeah,
1:03:41
it's like,
1:03:41
I'm not going to do this if I don't feel like I should be doing it.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_00: And it was that,
1:03:45
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: as maybe not twisted,
1:03:48
SPEAKER_00: but it's probably the reason I ended up coming back because deep down,
1:03:52
SPEAKER_00: it's like,
1:03:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm still,
1:03:53
SPEAKER_00: no,
1:03:54
SPEAKER_00: I just,
1:03:54
SPEAKER_00: I can't lie to myself.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_00: I can't lie to myself.
1:03:56
I'm not going to pretend like I believe in this stuff or that
1:03:58
I'm coming here.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_00: Cause at the end of the day, it doesn't, it doesn't help anybody.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_00: And it just hurts probably in the long run, especially.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_02: And, you know,
1:04:08
one important thing i you know i like i i agree uh barbarian
1:04:14
like i you know i'm 40
1:04:15
you know we're probably all the same age you know is that we've
1:04:18
had this experience
1:04:19
before where we meet the people from back back in the day and
1:04:21
we see him again and
1:04:23
it's it's it can be shocking sometimes because i often think of
1:04:27
myself as uh
1:04:29
as a degenerate that ended up poorly,
1:04:32
you know,
1:04:32
which is far from the truth.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_02: The reality is I ended up pretty damn well on accident,
1:04:39
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:04:39
SPEAKER_02: by,
1:04:39
SPEAKER_02: by the grace of God,
1:04:40
SPEAKER_02: I ended up with a family and a house and everything,
1:04:43
SPEAKER_02: you know?
1:04:45
SPEAKER_02: Um,
1:04:46
SPEAKER_02: Not for my lack of trying to do it the worst way.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_02: But I come across,
1:04:52
I had a shock maybe a decade ago where I ran into a girl that I
1:04:58
used to have just a
1:05:00
SPEAKER_02: massive middle school,
1:05:02
SPEAKER_02: high school crush on.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_02: And she was the preppy good girl Christian.
1:05:07
and i lost track of her after high school and uh she didn't do
1:05:11
well you know she
1:05:13
ended up getting into drugs sold drugs went to jail actually or
1:05:16
prison um and i i
1:05:20
when i met her it it kind of like ruined my old uh you know
1:05:26
fantasies of my my old
1:05:27
SPEAKER_02: like uh like love for her but
1:05:31
SPEAKER_02: A few years later,
1:05:32
SPEAKER_02: recently,
1:05:33
I ran into a friend of a friend that also knew her and said
1:05:36
that she became a
1:05:37
SPEAKER_02: Christian and
1:05:39
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:05:40
SPEAKER_02: is,
1:05:40
SPEAKER_02: is a hardcore,
1:05:41
SPEAKER_02: like straight edger,
1:05:42
SPEAKER_02: AA or narcotics anonymous person,
1:05:44
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:05:44
SPEAKER_02: and that's a good thing,
1:05:46
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:05:47
SPEAKER_02: and one thing that we,
1:05:48
SPEAKER_02: we have to kind of look the way,
1:05:50
SPEAKER_02: the way I look at it and I take,
1:05:51
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:05:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm not a Roman Catholic,
1:05:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm Orthodox,
1:05:53
SPEAKER_02: right.
1:05:54
And in Orthodox church,
1:05:56
we look at sin as a disease and we look at the church as a hospital.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_02: And, you know,
1:06:04
these people these porn actresses and the guys that are
1:06:08
addicted and indulge in
1:06:09
this pornography or whether it's or any addiction right they're
1:06:12
sick right they're
1:06:13
sick with sin right and these people need help they need their
1:06:20
lives are not good
1:06:21
no amount of money that they have no amount of wealth or
1:06:24
prestige or fame or
1:06:26
anything like that is really good for them because they're
1:06:29
they're sick and
1:06:32
My problem with society is that we encourage their sickness and
1:06:38
we applaud and
1:06:39
SPEAKER_02: enable it,
1:06:40
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:06:41
A just virtuous society would stop that kind of shit from
1:06:46
happening in the first place,
1:06:47
right?
1:06:48
SPEAKER_02: You do not leave needles filled with heroin
1:06:52
around addicts that's not a that's not a just virtuous thing to
1:06:55
do you would not
1:06:57
recommend would not recommend yes right and i think that it is
1:07:00
that's that's the
1:07:01
problem right that is the problem a lot in our society i've
1:07:05
noticed is that you
1:07:07
know you have these kind of libertarian brain people they're
1:07:11
saying oh just do
1:07:11
whatever you want you know and we applaud and encourage
1:07:14
people's self-destruction
1:07:16
SPEAKER_02: and that's not love for your neighbor
1:07:19
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_02: Letting your neighbor kill himself is not love.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_02: Letting your friend's daughter do pornography is not love.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's my view.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_02: And if it's prudish and dictatorial,
1:07:31
SPEAKER_02: well,
1:07:31
SPEAKER_02: then I'm prudish and dictatorial because that's what I believe,
1:07:34
SPEAKER_02: you know?
1:07:36
SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_03: And no, that's right in line with Roman Catholicism too.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_03: And I grew up evangelical.
1:07:43
That's the kind of church that that person that I was
1:07:47
referencing was a Sunday
1:07:49
SPEAKER_03: school teacher in.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_03: She was Sunday school teacher in the church I grew up in.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, is no one noticing this?
1:07:58
SPEAKER_03: Or are they just okay with it?
1:07:59
SPEAKER_03: Or like, what's going on?
1:08:01
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm thinking of myself, guys.
1:08:07
what do we do about it you know us and I think how does any of
1:08:12
this get fixed or
1:08:13
how does any of this get better without an enormous amount of
1:08:16
pain that the vast
1:08:19
majority of people probably don't have the steel to dish out
1:08:22
much less take so at
1:08:26
least with me and like the little community that we have going
1:08:32
on here it's
1:08:35
It's hard because getting back to what we were talking about
1:08:42
with nobility,
1:08:44
the nobility will be those who literally have their children
1:08:48
still stay because
1:08:50
SPEAKER_03: it's that...
1:08:53
SPEAKER_03: people's children get tempted by the world and leave.
1:08:57
Like I was just in a meeting two weeks ago where we were
1:09:02
discussing this book.
1:09:05
I have it here on my desk,
1:09:06
Localism,
1:09:07
Coming Home to Catholic Social Teaching.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_03: And a lot of it is discussing
1:09:13
SPEAKER_03: The ideas of distributism by Chesterton and block and stuff like that.
1:09:21
And a lot of the families that are have children older than
1:09:25
mine that are teens.
1:09:28
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
1:09:28
SPEAKER_03: I'm just going to be honest,
1:09:30
some of them sent their children off to like prep schools and
1:09:36
stuff like that.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_03: Like the traditional Catholic schools, like St.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_03: Greg's and...
1:09:46
SPEAKER_03: What's the one that's going up in Kansas?
1:09:49
SPEAKER_03: St.
1:09:49
SPEAKER_03: Martin's and stuff like that.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_03: And when you do that,
1:09:52
the children get used to the cultures there and then they come
1:09:57
back to our little
1:10:00
SPEAKER_03: community and it's just a different culture.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_03: And the children get tempted away because it's just like,
1:10:10
they're used to this society that they no longer have and like
1:10:17
you have to you
1:10:20
can't do that you you have to make the culture and the society
1:10:24
that you want and
1:10:25
you you kind of have to enforce it i don't know like you you
1:10:30
have to be willing to
1:10:34
SPEAKER_03: give the your children the pain
1:10:39
SPEAKER_03: I guess it is of being raised in the society you want to create.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_03: If like, and you have to enforce that society.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_03: If that makes any sense to your question,
1:10:51
SPEAKER_03: Fisto,
1:10:51
SPEAKER_03: like you have to enforce the rules of society and culture.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_03: If you want that society and culture to propagate.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_02: Don't let me, that makes sense.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, one thing,
1:11:06
one problem with uh you know this this kind of thing where
1:11:13
where you you and i'm
1:11:15
not saying that you're part of the society but uh you know or
1:11:18
this kind of mindset
1:11:19
but that you you have the um the the boomer become the
1:11:24
patriarch kind of concept
1:11:25
that gets spit spat out a lot online and you know the cowboy
1:11:30
video stuff and uh
1:11:34
where you have the parents that are strictly religious and they
1:11:39
restrict their
1:11:40
SPEAKER_02: children's outside connections or exposure to the outside world.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_02: And then they do go out.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_02: They go out into the military or they go out into the real world.
1:11:53
SPEAKER_02: And because they haven't been exposed to the degeneracy,
1:11:57
SPEAKER_02: they haven't been inoculated to a certain degree,
1:12:02
SPEAKER_02: they turn out bad.
1:12:04
you know and that seems to be a a a paradox of raising your
1:12:09
children hardcore
1:12:10
religious in a way and this is something i've experienced uh in
1:12:14
my own life i i was
1:12:16
raised my brothers and i were raised very non-religious very
1:12:21
atheist right uh i
1:12:23
don't think my mom stepped in a church that wasn't like a
1:12:27
wedding or something like
1:12:28
SPEAKER_02: that right
1:12:29
And we all turned out pretty conservative and all married and
1:12:37
children and everything.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:12:39
SPEAKER_02: Very, you would say typical.
1:12:42
We turned out very typically conservative in a way when we were
1:12:45
raised very liberal
1:12:46
SPEAKER_02: and open minded.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_02: But through experience,
1:12:51
everybody I knew that was a hardcore degenerate or had a lot of
1:12:56
degeneracy problems
1:12:58
SPEAKER_02: was raised in a very conservative,
1:13:01
SPEAKER_02: hardcore,
1:13:03
SPEAKER_02: controlling environment.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_02: Some of the biggest degenerates I knew were ex-Mormons.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_02: And when they got away from that lifestyle, they overcompensated.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_02: I spent a lot of time in the military, right?
1:13:17
And you could always tell those military guys that were like
1:13:21
raised in very
1:13:21
SPEAKER_02: conservative small towns because they did not know how to drink.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_02: If that makes sense.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_02: You know,
1:13:27
SPEAKER_02: they're the ones that were like pissing themselves after like,
1:13:30
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:13:30
SPEAKER_02: four beers and they discovered alcohol for the first time.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_02: And it just went wilding out.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, they were just insane and doing the dumbest things.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_02: Well,
1:13:39
SPEAKER_02: meanwhile,
1:13:39
SPEAKER_02: the guys that were like,
1:13:40
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:13:41
drinking wine since we were like eight because our parents were
1:13:44
cool with like a
1:13:45
SPEAKER_02: little bit of alcohol here and there.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_02: We're fine.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_02: We can handle our liquor and we're not interested in getting drunk.
1:13:50
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, and we knew like the social context around it.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_02: So how do you deal with that paradox barbarian in the polity, right?
1:13:58
How do you deal with the fact that you cannot have a closed
1:14:01
system unless you fully close it?
1:14:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that varies parent to parent, right?
1:14:11
SPEAKER_03: I know,
1:14:12
SPEAKER_03: at least for me and the successful parents that I've seen out here,
1:14:18
SPEAKER_03: their kids are working with them.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_03: I take my kids, at least in the community, to work with me.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_03: And my eldest is
1:14:30
SPEAKER_03: seven and my next is six.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_03: And they're working with me on my neighbor's stuff.
1:14:37
SPEAKER_03: And they're laying out materials.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_03: They're helping me carry tools back and forth.
1:14:43
My neighbors are like,
1:14:45
wow,
1:14:45
you got a lot done when they're not there on site.
1:14:48
I'm like,
1:14:48
yeah,
1:14:48
my kids,
1:14:49
they can take two,
1:14:51
three hours off an eight hour day.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_03: So they're seeing stuff.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_03: And as they get older, they'll be seeing stuff more out in the world.
1:15:06
I mean,
1:15:08
probably most people would say that I shelter my kids a little bit.
1:15:11
They don't have really battery-powered toys right now because
1:15:18
we like to encourage
1:15:19
SPEAKER_03: free thought and free play.
1:15:22
um they have access to tools and my shop they have access to
1:15:27
the land and being
1:15:29
able to roam on about 30 we have about 30 acres that they can
1:15:34
roam on and play um
1:15:38
SPEAKER_03: But that varies family to family.
1:15:43
As part of homeschooling,
1:15:44
we let them watch a couple movies,
1:15:46
Saint movies,
1:15:49
Planet Earth.
1:15:50
The first full-length movie we have them watch is the old black
1:15:54
and white Scrooge.
1:16:00
SPEAKER_03: It just varies, man.
1:16:04
SPEAKER_03: Every parent's given the graces to raise their children different.
1:16:08
right no and and that's that's interesting you know and uh i i
1:16:16
in a way like i like
1:16:19
for example i i fully support that as a parent myself and i
1:16:22
have a six-year-old
1:16:23
right and i from for my own parenting i i thought about you
1:16:28
know limiting a lot of
1:16:30
SPEAKER_02: stuff and i realized that i based on where i live and you know
1:16:36
SPEAKER_02: our lifestyle that it would be just impossible.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_02: I would come off as dictatorial and I would be,
1:16:43
it would be hard because I don't have the good stuff to offer
1:16:46
like 30 acres and the
1:16:48
SPEAKER_02: community and that kind of stuff.
1:16:51
SPEAKER_02: So,
1:16:52
I take a,
1:16:53
you know,
1:16:54
I do what my parents did and I'm like,
1:16:56
I expose with caveats.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:17:02
SPEAKER_02: Like,
1:17:03
SPEAKER_02: it's just like,
1:17:04
SPEAKER_02: I would rather be the first person to get to them before the other stuff,
1:17:08
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:17:08
SPEAKER_02: if that makes sense,
1:17:10
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:17:10
SPEAKER_02: Like I, you know what?
1:17:13
SPEAKER_02: I let my daughter play video games because video games are a thing.
1:17:16
SPEAKER_02: And if she's going to turn 18 and move away, they're there.
1:17:21
SPEAKER_02: And I need her to understand that they're not a big deal.
1:17:24
SPEAKER_02: And what's bad and what's good.
1:17:25
I let her watch all the Disney movies and the ones that have
1:17:29
dumb ass woke shit in them.
1:17:31
SPEAKER_02: I talk to her about it and I explain what.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
1:17:35
And it's funny because sometimes my daughter says stuff and my
1:17:38
wife cracks up
1:17:39
SPEAKER_02: because she'll,
1:17:40
SPEAKER_02: she'll like repeat it or she's like,
1:17:41
SPEAKER_02: this is what,
1:17:42
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:17:42
SPEAKER_02: she said when we were driving home from school or whatever.
1:17:45
SPEAKER_02: And she says some stuff that's like straight up out of like,
1:17:48
SPEAKER_02: like the most anti-woke nonsense ever,
1:17:51
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:17:51
SPEAKER_02: like,
1:17:51
SPEAKER_02: and it just is birthed in her own mind,
1:17:55
SPEAKER_02: you know?
1:17:56
And she's,
1:17:58
she made a comment on the new Snow White,
1:18:01
the one with like that,
1:18:03
SPEAKER_02: that really woke Snow White or something like that.
1:18:06
SPEAKER_02: And it made me laugh so hard because it was something that,
1:18:09
SPEAKER_02: like,
1:18:10
SPEAKER_02: it was so based,
1:18:10
SPEAKER_02: it could have been,
1:18:11
SPEAKER_02: like,
1:18:11
SPEAKER_02: a tweet,
1:18:12
SPEAKER_02: but she completely said it from,
1:18:14
SPEAKER_02: like,
1:18:14
SPEAKER_02: an innocent,
1:18:15
SPEAKER_02: like,
1:18:16
SPEAKER_02: perspective,
1:18:17
SPEAKER_02: you know?
1:18:17
SPEAKER_02: And I was just, there was, like, a light that lit up in my chest.
1:18:21
SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, based.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_02: That's my girl.
1:18:24
SPEAKER_00: That's my girl.
1:18:25
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:18:27
SPEAKER_00: Get him.
1:18:27
SPEAKER_02: Get him, honey.
1:18:28
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I feel like,
1:18:32
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be a challenge.
1:18:33
SPEAKER_02: She's going to get to high school.
1:18:35
SPEAKER_02: Do I get her a cell phone?
1:18:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't want her to be the poverty child that doesn't have a cell phone.
1:18:42
SPEAKER_02: In a way, I'm just like, how do I deal with that?
1:18:48
SPEAKER_02: You can be a patriarch and be tyrannical.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_02: I'm afraid of
1:18:56
SPEAKER_02: Her becoming like a lot of my female friends that had very patriarchal,
1:19:00
SPEAKER_02: tyrannical dads that ended up doing the exact opposite just out of spite,
1:19:06
SPEAKER_02: you know?
1:19:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:19:08
SPEAKER_02: Especially if there's hypocrisy involved.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_02: And that's the big problem, right?
1:19:12
SPEAKER_02: Like if you're going to put these rules on your kid,
1:19:14
SPEAKER_02: right,
1:19:14
SPEAKER_02: you better not be jerking off upstairs to pornography.
1:19:17
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:19:18
SPEAKER_02: And I've seen that way too many times.
1:19:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
1:19:27
SPEAKER_02: And you have to be reasonable.
1:19:28
SPEAKER_02: There's something that stuck in my mind forever.
1:19:31
Many years ago,
1:19:32
I was in the Navy and I was in,
1:19:34
you know,
1:19:35
early training,
1:19:36
learning basic stuff.
1:19:37
SPEAKER_02: And there was this kid, uh,
1:19:39
SPEAKER_02: young guy.
1:19:40
And he was a very interesting guy because he was a,
1:19:44
he was a mixed race kid.
1:19:46
SPEAKER_02: He was half white, half black.
1:19:48
And his dad was obviously a lawyer and they were very conservative,
1:19:53
very religious.
1:19:55
And he was a guy that,
1:19:55
you know,
1:19:56
he was this yoked up super buff guy,
1:19:58
like bodybuilder guy.
1:19:59
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_02: But he grew up in a very closed upper class, rich society.
1:20:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh, the guy wore like sweater vests and stuff.
1:20:08
SPEAKER_02: And, uh,
1:20:09
he uh surprisingly enough was from chicago but he came from a
1:20:14
very like religious
1:20:16
kind of background and he uh he started hanging out with me and
1:20:21
like you know we we
1:20:22
you know we had a lot in common like outside of like our kind
1:20:25
of conservatism
1:20:26
versus like my liberalism and uh he ended up coming to
1:20:30
california with me when i
1:20:31
SPEAKER_02: ended up working in california too and
1:20:35
SPEAKER_02: I used to hang out at this coffee shop that had a lot of,
1:20:37
SPEAKER_02: it was what we called in Long Beach,
1:20:39
SPEAKER_02: the gay toe,
1:20:40
because it was like at the edge of the ghetto and like the
1:20:44
gentrified gay neighborhood.
1:20:46
SPEAKER_02: So we called it the gay toe.
1:20:47
And there was a lot of,
1:20:50
you know,
1:20:51
gay people that hung out at that coffee shop.
1:20:53
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of them were really cool people and, you know, whatever.
1:20:57
SPEAKER_02: And I remember one day he came,
1:20:58
he came by and he sat down with me and he started talking to
1:21:03
this girl that was a lesbian.
1:21:05
SPEAKER_02: And they like hit it off.
1:21:06
Like they were talking for like hours and then I ended up
1:21:08
leaving and he ended up
1:21:09
SPEAKER_02: staying and talking to her.
1:21:10
And the next morning I saw him and he told me something that
1:21:13
stuck with me forever.
1:21:14
You know,
1:21:15
he's like,
1:21:17
I spent 10 hours talking to that girl and she was such a great person.
1:21:22
SPEAKER_02: But I was raised to think that these people sucked.
1:21:27
you know what i mean like i he's like in church and stuff i was
1:21:31
always told that
1:21:32
they were evil and bad and sinful and this kind of stuff right
1:21:36
and you know he came
1:21:37
from a very protestant kind of background right very very you
1:21:42
know brimstone
1:21:43
hellfire type stuff and it he was having like a religious kind
1:21:48
of breakdown when he
1:21:49
SPEAKER_02: was talking to me because
1:21:52
SPEAKER_02: he felt like these people were the enemy and these people,
1:21:54
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:21:55
SPEAKER_02: and he just talked to just a girl,
1:21:57
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:21:57
SPEAKER_02: that was just,
1:21:58
SPEAKER_02: just happened to like,
1:21:59
SPEAKER_02: you know what I mean?
1:22:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:22:00
SPEAKER_02: And that's,
1:22:01
I saw that a lot in people that came from very strict religious
1:22:04
backgrounds when
1:22:06
SPEAKER_02: they meet these people and they're like,
1:22:07
SPEAKER_02: well,
1:22:07
SPEAKER_02: it's not that big of a deal.
1:22:08
These people aren't monsters,
1:22:10
you know,
1:22:10
they're,
1:22:11
they might be wrong,
1:22:12
but they're not monsters.
1:22:14
SPEAKER_02: Like, like, you know, my pastor told me or something like that, you know?
1:22:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:22:18
SPEAKER_02: And that's rough because if you don't,
1:22:20
SPEAKER_02: if you're not honest with people,
1:22:22
they're going to be upset at you when they grow up and go out
1:22:24
into the world.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
1:22:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:22:29
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
1:22:29
SPEAKER_03: that's,
1:22:31
SPEAKER_03: it's hard and you gotta,
1:22:33
you gotta do things so that your kid when they're 18 is able to
1:22:41
live the life that
1:22:42
SPEAKER_03: you think that they're going to live.
1:22:45
SPEAKER_03: and that you can have an honest conversation about things like,
1:22:50
SPEAKER_03: okay,
1:22:50
SPEAKER_03: son or daughter,
1:22:52
SPEAKER_03: this is what marriage is like.
1:22:54
SPEAKER_03: This is what LA is like.
1:22:59
SPEAKER_03: This is what Chicago is like.
1:23:00
SPEAKER_03: This is what it's like to be in theater.
1:23:05
I mean,
1:23:05
before I converted to Catholicism,
1:23:07
I worked in theater for 10 years.
1:23:10
SPEAKER_03: I know exactly what that's like.
1:23:15
SPEAKER_02: It's probably one step below pornography.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_03: One step below.
1:23:20
SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
1:23:21
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean...
1:23:29
It's not that you want to scandalize a child and break that
1:23:33
innocence that's there,
1:23:34
SPEAKER_03: but you need to have that relationship where it's like,
1:23:38
SPEAKER_03: okay,
1:23:39
SPEAKER_03: we're going to step into this.
1:23:43
Maybe you get them a smartphone with some of those built-in
1:23:49
restrictions or just a flip phone.
1:23:52
SPEAKER_03: I mean, they still sell those.
1:23:55
SPEAKER_03: And you tell her, like...
1:23:57
SPEAKER_03: you're going to ease into this or not, or I don't know.
1:24:00
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
1:24:01
SPEAKER_03: you're going to have to,
1:24:02
SPEAKER_00: I would see where that is when I would recommend,
1:24:05
I would recommend encouraging being a Luddite where she's like
1:24:08
cell phone and then
1:24:08
SPEAKER_00: just whips out a book and slaps him with it.
1:24:11
SPEAKER_02: That'd be the ideal.
1:24:12
SPEAKER_02: I want to be, excuse me.
1:24:15
SPEAKER_02: I want to be a Luddite, right?
1:24:17
SPEAKER_02: Gross.
1:24:17
SPEAKER_02: A home that's gross.
1:24:19
SPEAKER_02: Look, here's the thing, right?
1:24:22
I want to be a Luddite and I want to keep my child off the
1:24:25
internet and all that stuff.
1:24:27
SPEAKER_02: But here I am podcasting on Substack, right?
1:24:32
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
1:24:33
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:24:33
SPEAKER_02: So like, I have to explain that.
1:24:35
SPEAKER_02: I have to explain that,
1:24:36
SPEAKER_02: that this internet,
1:24:39
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:24:40
SPEAKER_02: modernity is a,
1:24:41
SPEAKER_02: is a double edged sword,
1:24:43
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:24:43
SPEAKER_02: It's a two edged sword.
1:24:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:24:45
SPEAKER_02: And it can hurt you.
1:24:47
SPEAKER_02: And it can also, it does do good things.
1:24:49
You know,
1:24:50
there is some great things that come out of it and it's a tool
1:24:53
like anything else.
1:24:55
And sometimes,
1:24:56
you know,
1:24:57
it's a tool and a key and sometimes key keys open shit.
1:25:00
SPEAKER_02: You shouldn't be opening, you know?
1:25:03
SPEAKER_00: Not now, honey.
1:25:04
SPEAKER_00: Daddy's talking to his perverts.
1:25:06
SPEAKER_00: He'll talk to you later.
1:25:09
SPEAKER_00: You guys keep describing complexity.
1:25:11
You guys keep describing how intricate and how incredible even
1:25:19
a fallen creation is.
1:25:23
SPEAKER_00: Of course, it would still be absolutely mind-blowing.
1:25:27
SPEAKER_00: Of course, this place, the whole world, would still be this...
1:25:31
magical spectacular terrifyingly dangerous thing and how do you
1:25:37
communicate that to
1:25:38
people how do you communicate that to your own children to be
1:25:42
like guys i birthed
1:25:43
you into a fucking trip hold on to your buckets like here we go
1:25:47
and i i don't know
1:25:50
how to do that i mean hopefully once i have my own i'll be able
1:25:53
to you know see how
1:25:55
i do but you just gotta you just gotta kind of i think trust
1:25:59
and hope that you're
1:25:59
SPEAKER_00: gonna figure it out
1:26:01
SPEAKER_00: And you got to start with yourself.
1:26:03
SPEAKER_00: You got to start with yourself realizing, oh, here we go.
1:26:05
SPEAKER_00: This stuff's going to be – this stuff's going to be off.
1:26:08
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be crazy.
1:26:09
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be crazy.
1:26:10
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:26:11
SPEAKER_02: Now, from a Catholic perspective, I am a fan of Marshall McLuhan.
1:26:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you're familiar with Marshall McLuhan.
1:26:17
SPEAKER_02: I am not.
1:26:20
SPEAKER_02: So Marshall McLuhan was a – he was a – like a sociologist.
1:26:31
He was a Canadian philosopher and he was a Catholic convert and
1:26:35
he became a pretty,
1:26:37
SPEAKER_02: pretty hardcore Catholic convert.
1:26:40
SPEAKER_02: And he spent a lot of time being a professor at St.
1:26:43
SPEAKER_02: Louis university.
1:26:45
SPEAKER_02: And, um,
1:26:46
SPEAKER_02: His big stuff is he was a media commenter, basically.
1:26:53
His body of work was focused on how media affects us and how to
1:27:02
approach media from
1:27:04
SPEAKER_02: different perspectives.
1:27:05
SPEAKER_02: His most famous work was The Medium is the Message,
1:27:08
and he really focused a lot on how we interact with each other
1:27:13
through our media,
1:27:14
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:27:15
SPEAKER_02: And it's interesting because if you read his books,
1:27:18
SPEAKER_02: you're like,
1:27:18
SPEAKER_02: oh,
1:27:18
SPEAKER_02: he's talking about the internet,
1:27:19
SPEAKER_02: but he died before the internet existed.
1:27:22
SPEAKER_02: So it was pretty wild.
1:27:26
SPEAKER_02: Baudrillard takes a lot of stuff kind of from him,
1:27:29
but he approached this kind of media philosophy from a very
1:27:35
Catholic perspective.
1:27:37
And one of the things he talks about is he uses the example of
1:27:43
the Edgar Allan Poe story,
1:27:45
SPEAKER_02: The Tempest.
1:27:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you guys are familiar with The Tempest.
1:27:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm not.
1:27:49
SPEAKER_00: A little bit, but it's been a while.
1:27:51
SPEAKER_02: I'll give you a quick rundown of The Tempest.
1:27:52
SPEAKER_02: The Tempest is a story about...
1:27:57
SPEAKER_02: uh,
1:27:57
SPEAKER_02: it's basically about these two,
1:27:58
SPEAKER_02: two brothers or three brothers that are fishermen,
1:28:01
SPEAKER_02: or they got,
1:28:01
SPEAKER_02: they go out on this boat out in this,
1:28:04
SPEAKER_02: in basically out in the ocean or something like that.
1:28:06
SPEAKER_02: And they're out there and they're always skirting like these storms.
1:28:10
SPEAKER_02: And they're always,
1:28:11
SPEAKER_02: they're always going far away because they're,
1:28:13
SPEAKER_02: they're going to fish for the best fish.
1:28:15
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:28:15
Well,
1:28:16
one day they get caught up in like the worst,
1:28:20
like supernatural storm.
1:28:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's an Edgar Allen Poe kind of storm.
1:28:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:28:24
SPEAKER_02: And,
1:28:25
SPEAKER_02: One of the brothers just gets freaking sucked up and he's gone.
1:28:29
SPEAKER_02: He gets sucked up into this Tempest, right?
1:28:32
SPEAKER_02: Now, the other two are struggling.
1:28:35
SPEAKER_02: The boat's caught.
1:28:36
SPEAKER_02: It's not going anywhere.
1:28:37
SPEAKER_02: They're struggling.
1:28:39
SPEAKER_02: And one of the brothers,
1:28:40
he basically ties himself to the mast or to something attached
1:28:45
to the boat.
1:28:46
SPEAKER_02: So he's riding the boat.
1:28:48
SPEAKER_02: The other brother,
1:28:49
he notices that all the items and crap off the boat and all the
1:28:55
debris that's
1:28:55
SPEAKER_02: floating around in the storm that is free-flowing,
1:28:59
SPEAKER_02: that is basically...
1:29:02
floating out of the tempest it's being ejected out of the
1:29:05
tempest right so instead
1:29:07
of tying himself to the boat he lets himself go he ties himself
1:29:12
to like a free
1:29:13
floating piece of like a barrel or something like that right
1:29:16
and the storm you know
1:29:18
to take the cyclone takes them and tosses them out and he
1:29:21
washes ashore and he
1:29:22
SPEAKER_02: survives right
1:29:24
SPEAKER_02: And he,
1:29:24
SPEAKER_02: and McLuhan uses this,
1:29:26
SPEAKER_02: this story as his,
1:29:28
SPEAKER_02: in his opinion,
1:29:29
SPEAKER_02: how we should approach the media and stuff.
1:29:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:29:33
SPEAKER_02: As in,
1:29:33
we have to recognize it for it being the tempest and we have to
1:29:38
be knowledgeable
1:29:40
SPEAKER_02: and understand how to navigate it.
1:29:42
SPEAKER_02: Because if we,
1:29:43
SPEAKER_02: if we barrel down and try to ignore it or tie ourselves down,
1:29:46
SPEAKER_02: we're just going to go down with it.
1:29:47
SPEAKER_02: you know?
1:29:49
And I always think that that's a good way to approach how I
1:29:55
approach my child,
1:29:56
SPEAKER_02: for example,
1:29:56
SPEAKER_02: where I'm like,
1:29:57
SPEAKER_02: listen,
1:29:57
SPEAKER_02: it's out there.
1:29:58
SPEAKER_02: Like here it is.
1:30:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to hide you from it.
1:30:01
SPEAKER_02: The world is dark and it's filled with evil and there's scary stuff.
1:30:05
SPEAKER_02: And this is why we do stuff, you know, but also it's also good.
1:30:09
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the bad things,
1:30:11
look good and sometimes the good things look bad you know and
1:30:15
that's a that's a
1:30:15
SPEAKER_02: tough one to teach kids you know but i think that's how i if i was
1:30:22
SPEAKER_02: probably the best thing for myself is to,
1:30:26
SPEAKER_02: I would just delete all social media,
1:30:29
SPEAKER_02: delete Substack,
1:30:30
delete everything and just close my laptop forever and toss my
1:30:33
phone in the toilet
1:30:34
SPEAKER_02: and never touch it again.
1:30:35
SPEAKER_02: That'd probably be the best thing ever, right?
1:30:39
SPEAKER_02: But I can't do that, right?
1:30:40
SPEAKER_02: I can't do that for multiple reasons, right?
1:30:44
SPEAKER_02: And because I can't do that,
1:30:47
SPEAKER_02: I think that the best way to deal with it is to recognize its dangers,
1:30:50
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:30:51
SPEAKER_02: and navigate them properly, if that makes sense.
1:30:55
SPEAKER_02: And that's what you have to kind of teach your kids, in my opinion.
1:31:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's right.
1:31:02
And I think the best thing to do with children is first know
1:31:10
the amount of
1:31:11
SPEAKER_03: technology that their friend relations and social circles have,
1:31:18
SPEAKER_03: and then
1:31:20
address how much they're going to have so that they don't feel
1:31:27
left out or are able
1:31:29
SPEAKER_03: to cope with the amount that they're different than friends.
1:31:35
SPEAKER_03: Depending on the child,
1:31:37
they might either have the ability to be left out if they're a
1:31:43
loner or not,
1:31:44
SPEAKER_03: or if they feel the need to be a part of the social group,
1:31:48
SPEAKER_03: they need to have enough of it and be able to use it responsibly.
1:31:55
SPEAKER_03: to be a part of the group.
1:31:59
SPEAKER_03: So in my setting, there's not as much technology.
1:32:04
SPEAKER_03: There just isn't.
1:32:06
SPEAKER_03: Plus, just with the way I raise my children, they're just
1:32:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm a business owner.
1:32:14
SPEAKER_03: We're not as involved with the community all the time.
1:32:19
So there are people in the community that have more technology
1:32:23
or less technology.
1:32:26
SPEAKER_03: But my children don't always interact with them.
1:32:30
SPEAKER_03: And thus,
1:32:30
I'm able to make a little bit more judgments on that because
1:32:35
they're not always as involved.
1:32:37
SPEAKER_03: So there's less of an in-group, out-group type of thing.
1:32:43
SPEAKER_03: But I will need to address that as they get older.
1:32:46
SPEAKER_03: Like,
1:32:47
SPEAKER_03: so you have to know the psychology of your children,
1:32:51
SPEAKER_03: address that and help them grow into that,
1:32:54
SPEAKER_03: I think.
1:32:56
SPEAKER_02: That's actually very wise.
1:32:57
SPEAKER_02: That's a very wise thing because I see that a lot of people,
1:33:01
a lot of parents that tend to fall on the stricter side and the
1:33:06
more controlling side,
1:33:09
disregard the social and psychological aspect that those
1:33:14
decisions have on their children.
1:33:17
Because if you're going to lock your children away from having
1:33:20
things that
1:33:21
SPEAKER_02: everybody else in the high school that you send them to,
1:33:24
SPEAKER_02: Because you send them to the high school as a parent.
1:33:28
SPEAKER_02: If you're going to put them in a social situation,
1:33:30
SPEAKER_02: a forced one,
1:33:31
SPEAKER_02: where they legally have to go there,
1:33:36
yet you're going to deprive them of the social capital that
1:33:40
other children have
1:33:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, you're going to just breed resentment in your children.
1:33:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:33:46
SPEAKER_00: It's taking responsibility.
1:33:47
It's taking responsibility for the decisions that you make and
1:33:50
thinking those things,
1:33:51
SPEAKER_00: thinking those decisions through completely.
1:33:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm a high school teacher.
1:33:56
SPEAKER_00: Like people complain about what's, well, what are you doing here?
1:33:59
SPEAKER_00: No one put a gun to your head.
1:34:00
SPEAKER_00: Like you guys can make different decisions.
1:34:01
SPEAKER_00: You could try to do things differently, right?
1:34:03
If you don't like it here,
1:34:04
well,
1:34:05
maybe you should do something about that.
1:34:07
SPEAKER_00: But no, I don't want to.
1:34:11
SPEAKER_00: Just want to browse and complain.
1:34:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:34:12
yeah it's it's like putting your children in all tattered
1:34:15
thrift store clothing and
1:34:17
not realizing that's going to have an effect on their
1:34:20
self-image like don't be a
1:34:22
retard of course it is and a parent knows that and they're
1:34:27
going to like try and
1:34:29
tell them like look honey i'm sorry but like this is what we
1:34:32
can afford let's like
1:34:36
SPEAKER_03: Let's try and make up for it or I'll keep my eye out for it.
1:34:39
SPEAKER_03: But you have to address that with your children.
1:34:41
SPEAKER_03: Like you have to have those conversations.
1:34:42
SPEAKER_00: You look amazing.
1:34:43
SPEAKER_00: That's the best clothes ever.
1:34:44
SPEAKER_00: They're fucking not.
1:34:46
SPEAKER_00: Hey, kid, we're poor.
1:34:47
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:34:48
SPEAKER_00: Deal with it.
1:34:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, like that.
1:34:49
SPEAKER_00: That would be better than just straight up lying to them.
1:34:53
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:34:54
SPEAKER_02: Well,
1:34:54
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:34:55
SPEAKER_02: that's I see that a lot of times,
1:34:58
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:34:58
SPEAKER_02: you get you get the guys that are like,
1:35:01
SPEAKER_02: oh,
1:35:01
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:35:01
I'm not going to let my daughter date and I'm not going to let
1:35:03
my daughter have
1:35:04
SPEAKER_02: friends and any of that stuff.
1:35:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:35:06
Or I'm going to put certain restrictions upon my kids that make
1:35:11
them socially inept
1:35:13
SPEAKER_02: or socially on the outs in their friend group.
1:35:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:35:17
But then I'm going to force them to go interact with,
1:35:20
you know,
1:35:21
hundreds of people,
1:35:21
right?
1:35:22
And in a way,
1:35:24
that is really chicken shit on those parents,
1:35:26
right,
1:35:26
in my opinion.
1:35:27
Because what you're doing is you're basically putting the –
1:35:32
you're making your
1:35:32
SPEAKER_02: children bear your cross.
1:35:34
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:35:35
SPEAKER_02: Without any of the – it's easy for you to send your kid to school,
1:35:38
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:35:39
SPEAKER_02: wearing only the color gray because that's what your religion says.
1:35:43
SPEAKER_02: Because you're not the one freaking doing it.
1:35:45
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:35:46
SPEAKER_02: You're not the one being made fun of or insulted and that kind of stuff.
1:35:50
And you're not the one bearing the outsiderness because you're
1:35:53
not in that environment.
1:35:55
SPEAKER_02: And it's the same thing.
1:35:56
SPEAKER_02: It's very easy for a parent that's married,
1:35:58
SPEAKER_02: has relationships and stuff with friends,
1:36:01
to start restricting their children from things that are
1:36:05
baseline societal norms.
1:36:08
SPEAKER_02: Because it's not their cross to bear in a way.
1:36:11
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:36:11
SPEAKER_02: And to me,
1:36:12
I feel like that is a poor way that will just breed resentment
1:36:16
and the feeling of
1:36:17
SPEAKER_02: hypocrisy and that type of thing.
1:36:20
SPEAKER_02: If you're going to have hardcore restrictions on your kid,
1:36:23
SPEAKER_02: your kid better be in a religious school or you better be homeschooling.
1:36:26
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:36:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, better be in an environment that respects your culture.
1:36:30
SPEAKER_03: Imagine that.
1:36:31
SPEAKER_03: Imagine that.
1:36:32
SPEAKER_03: And these things come up even in homeschooling.
1:36:36
SPEAKER_03: Don't get me wrong.
1:36:38
my little community and homeschooling these things come up
1:36:41
there's differences of
1:36:42
opinion on all kinds of things like in a traditional like latin
1:36:48
mass catholic
1:36:49
community there are all kinds of differences of opinions and
1:36:53
arguments about
1:36:54
everything from like can girls wear pants to like technology to
1:36:59
anything else like
1:37:00
SPEAKER_03: these you
1:37:02
SPEAKER_03: You're not going to get around the cultural differences,
1:37:06
and you need to have honest conversations with children about
1:37:10
what those are and
1:37:12
SPEAKER_03: what it means.
1:37:13
SPEAKER_03: They're not dumb.
1:37:15
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
1:37:16
SPEAKER_02: That is the key.
1:37:18
SPEAKER_02: People that don't have children are often –
1:37:22
they don't have this concept that you have to understand that
1:37:26
your children are individuals.
1:37:29
SPEAKER_02: You know,
1:37:30
they have their own personalities and quirks that no matter how
1:37:34
you raise them,
1:37:34
they're going to have those personality and quirks because
1:37:36
they're just born with,
1:37:38
SPEAKER_02: with them.
1:37:38
SPEAKER_02: You know you can have, you know,
1:37:42
SPEAKER_02: you can have a kid that cares nothing about movies,
1:37:46
SPEAKER_02: television,
1:37:46
SPEAKER_02: cell phones,
1:37:47
SPEAKER_02: or,
1:37:47
SPEAKER_02: or whatever,
1:37:48
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:37:49
SPEAKER_02: and you can even give them all that stuff.
1:37:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:37:51
SPEAKER_02: You can have everything you want.
1:37:52
SPEAKER_02: And they're just like, whatever, I'm going to go read, you know?
1:37:54
SPEAKER_02: And then you can have the exact opposite.
1:37:58
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:37:59
SPEAKER_02: And it's,
1:38:00
SPEAKER_02: it's,
1:38:01
SPEAKER_02: it's tough because you have to do a very case by case kind of approach,
1:38:04
SPEAKER_02: you know?
1:38:05
SPEAKER_02: But I think, you know,
1:38:08
SPEAKER_02: Parenting is tough, and that's how we approach it.
1:38:11
SPEAKER_02: But to take it back to Fisto's original question, what do we do?
1:38:15
Yes,
1:38:15
the way we raise our kids is a big key,
1:38:18
but how else do we change policy?
1:38:22
I think one conversation that we need to have on the sphere is
1:38:29
what is the point of
1:38:30
SPEAKER_02: government and what is the point of society?
1:38:33
Because I feel like that gets lost a lot in the H-1B
1:38:37
conversation and anything like that.
1:38:40
SPEAKER_02: Is what is the point of having laws?
1:38:43
SPEAKER_02: What is the point of having government offices and services?
1:38:49
SPEAKER_02: Is the point of all these things to make GDP go up?
1:38:53
Or is it the point to create a society or a culture that is
1:38:59
virtuous and beneficial
1:39:01
SPEAKER_02: for the people involved in this culture?
1:39:03
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:39:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:39:08
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:39:08
SPEAKER_02: So when you take a libertarian viewpoint,
1:39:10
SPEAKER_02: which is to me worse than a shitlib viewpoint,
1:39:14
I think I'd rather hang out with shitlibs and libertarians when
1:39:17
it comes to their world,
1:39:18
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:39:21
SPEAKER_02: The thing is, what's the point of even having a government?
1:39:25
SPEAKER_02: What's the point of even having the society?
1:39:27
SPEAKER_02: What's the point of even having bond between people if as a whole,
1:39:31
SPEAKER_02: we're not working towards a greater virtue,
1:39:34
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:39:36
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's something that needs to be discussed.
1:39:39
SPEAKER_02: It's like, why are we doing this?
1:39:40
SPEAKER_02: Why are we voting?
1:39:41
SPEAKER_02: What's the point?
1:39:43
SPEAKER_02: What are we doing?
1:39:45
SPEAKER_02: Why is this law passed?
1:39:47
SPEAKER_02: Why are we doing this?
1:39:48
SPEAKER_02: Why are we doing that?
1:39:49
And that's really what was at the bottom of the H-1B
1:39:52
conversation because it's like,
1:39:55
so do we have laws and pay taxes so our government can hire the
1:39:59
cheapest people to
1:40:00
SPEAKER_02: make GDP go up?
1:40:02
Or do we pay taxes and choose our leaders to make the life
1:40:06
better for your average person?
1:40:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:40:11
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's obviously the latter.
1:40:13
SPEAKER_03: Like we have laws and government to try,
1:40:18
SPEAKER_03: they're supposed to try and make us virtuous,
1:40:20
SPEAKER_03: like in a real government and society.
1:40:22
SPEAKER_03: And that's why I think I'd agree with you that, um,
1:40:26
a shitlib and like at least they want to take care of something
1:40:31
they want to have a
1:40:33
society and their answers are all trash but at least you can
1:40:39
have a conversation
1:40:40
with them and they'll care about the answers and they'll care
1:40:45
about the discussion
1:40:47
SPEAKER_03: where the libertarian doesn't even think that you should have a community
1:40:51
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:40:52
SPEAKER_03: Like their basic premise is I should stick to myself.
1:40:56
The government should stick to itself and no one should care
1:40:59
about each other.
1:41:00
SPEAKER_03: Like that's their basic premise is who cares?
1:41:06
SPEAKER_02: Just is it good for me, for me, mine, my house, my neighborhood?
1:41:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
1:41:10
SPEAKER_02: you had a guy arguing with me that,
1:41:11
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:41:12
it should be OK for me to open a strip club in my house in my neighborhood.
1:41:16
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you read that thread.
1:41:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember seeing that.
1:41:20
SPEAKER_02: That's the mindset we're dealing with.
1:41:24
When did people think being misanthropic was a great way to
1:41:27
build a society?
1:41:28
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
1:41:30
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like, wait.
1:41:33
It feels to me that what I'm thinking is our reliance on
1:41:39
technology and our
1:41:40
SPEAKER_00: reliance on this magical technological industrial world we've created
1:41:45
SPEAKER_00: has disconnected us from so much of reality,
1:41:50
SPEAKER_00: so much of the spiritual truth,
1:41:51
SPEAKER_00: so much of the physical enchantment,
1:41:55
SPEAKER_00: whatever,
1:41:56
SPEAKER_00: however you want to describe it.
1:41:59
The vast majority of our solutions are fucking bullshit because
1:42:03
people are not
1:42:05
SPEAKER_00: out there in the world.
1:42:06
SPEAKER_00: They're not out there in the real place.
1:42:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you mean society?
1:42:11
SPEAKER_00: There's a debate over whether we should have a society or not.
1:42:14
SPEAKER_00: We're humans.
1:42:15
SPEAKER_00: We have a society.
1:42:16
SPEAKER_00: We have societies.
1:42:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a matter of what kind of society we are.
1:42:20
SPEAKER_00: will have.
1:42:21
And it's not even what we're going to choose or what we're
1:42:24
going to build.
1:42:24
SPEAKER_00: It's what's it going to be because of the people that make up the group.
1:42:30
SPEAKER_00: In my mind, it's almost like these are emergent properties, guys.
1:42:34
SPEAKER_00: Not you guys, but just in general.
1:42:37
SPEAKER_00: And in my mind,
1:42:39
we're in a situation where perhaps the best thing outside of
1:42:44
trying to take care of
1:42:45
our own children and take care of our own communities is if
1:42:48
we're going to write or
1:42:49
SPEAKER_00: we're going to debate or we're going to discuss,
1:42:51
we've got to look centuries into the future to create things
1:42:56
that once they're
1:42:57
SPEAKER_00: digging through the dirt,
1:42:58
SPEAKER_00: they'll go,
1:42:58
SPEAKER_00: Ooh,
1:42:59
SPEAKER_00: this is useful.
1:43:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, like the problems that we've got are,
1:43:06
enormous and this is where i think a lot of the doomers i think
1:43:10
have a lot to say
1:43:12
like there are enormous problems guys and it's gonna suck if
1:43:17
they're ever going to
1:43:18
get solved in any kind of meaningful way that brings back a
1:43:22
brings back a um
1:43:24
satisfied or not a satisfied but a virtuous and and fulfilling
1:43:29
society and and
1:43:30
SPEAKER_02: human experience right and you know what
1:43:34
SPEAKER_02: Things have always sucked in a way, you know?
1:43:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and it's never going to be perfect.
1:43:39
SPEAKER_00: It's never going to be perfect.
1:43:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is where the libtard fails most spectacularly.
1:43:45
SPEAKER_00: Guys, you're not going to get Utopia.
1:43:47
SPEAKER_00: You're not going to get it.
1:43:48
SPEAKER_00: You're dealing with human beings.
1:43:50
SPEAKER_00: Good, good enough is amazing.
1:43:52
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:43:52
SPEAKER_00: And that's really the best you're ever going to hope for.
1:43:55
SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
1:43:56
SPEAKER_02: A lot of the,
1:43:57
SPEAKER_02: the right wing types tend to fantasize about a better past where,
1:44:03
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
1:44:03
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:44:04
SPEAKER_02: sometimes things were better in the past.
1:44:06
SPEAKER_02: There was a lot of eras I would have liked to live in,
1:44:09
but they had their own problems that were different and they
1:44:11
had their own challenges.
1:44:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, once again, everybody wants to live in the Roman empire and,
1:44:16
SPEAKER_02: But everybody pictures themselves as a senator.
1:44:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:44:19
I read something last night where it was the idea that the past
1:44:23
is a shadow of the future.
1:44:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:44:26
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, that's a cool way to think of it.
1:44:29
SPEAKER_00: Because I think it's true in a way.
1:44:32
It points to the fact that everything that's happened in the
1:44:33
past is leading into
1:44:34
SPEAKER_00: the future that we are going to actually live through.
1:44:37
And that our kids and our grandkids and their kids are going to
1:44:40
also live through.
1:44:42
So looking back into the past,
1:44:44
isn't the answer because guys,
1:44:45
the Romans are gone.
1:44:46
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:44:47
SPEAKER_00: Just deal with it.
1:44:49
SPEAKER_00: And in the future, we're never going to get to you.
1:44:50
SPEAKER_00: It's, it's, it's balance.
1:44:51
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about balance.
1:44:52
I think that's really what this podcast,
1:44:54
I think,
1:44:54
at least the episode today is about.
1:44:56
SPEAKER_00: How do we, how do we strike a balance?
1:44:58
SPEAKER_02: Because that's the way to do it.
1:45:00
I'm going to change the topics real fast because we're running
1:45:03
out of time,
1:45:04
SPEAKER_02: and I wanted to ask you about this,
1:45:06
SPEAKER_02: Barbarian.
1:45:06
So I noticed that you kind of had an unfortunate back and forth
1:45:13
with Johan Kurtz,
1:45:15
SPEAKER_02: the substacker,
1:45:17
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:45:18
SPEAKER_02: You had a disagreement with him, and I think it blocked you, right?
1:45:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:45:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he did.
1:45:23
SPEAKER_02: To be honest,
1:45:25
I follow him and I've read his stuff and that's kind of a
1:45:27
chicken shit thing to do.
1:45:28
SPEAKER_02: I blog people that are retarded.
1:45:30
SPEAKER_02: I don't blog people that disagree with me.
1:45:32
SPEAKER_02: No, it's true.
1:45:35
SPEAKER_02: I insta-blog any shit lib.
1:45:37
You come on and you're spouting 2016 talking points and stuff
1:45:40
about Nazis and stuff,
1:45:42
SPEAKER_02: it's insta-blog.
1:45:43
SPEAKER_02: I don't even want to engage with your stupidity.
1:45:47
SPEAKER_02: But if plenty of people on the right or even on the left...
1:45:51
you know,
1:45:52
question me or,
1:45:53
you know,
1:45:54
disagree with me and I will go back and forth.
1:45:57
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's great.
1:45:58
SPEAKER_02: Please disagree with me.
1:45:59
SPEAKER_02: I want to be disagreed with because that's how I grow.
1:46:02
SPEAKER_02: So I do think that that's a kind of a lame thing to do.
1:46:04
SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to
1:46:06
SPEAKER_02: it's going to change my viewpoint on his, his opinions.
1:46:09
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:46:10
SPEAKER_02: But I read through all those posts earlier today, actually.
1:46:13
SPEAKER_02: And I, it's interesting enough.
1:46:15
I,
1:46:15
I read both of you guys' stuff like last week or a few days ago
1:46:19
when you guys first wrote it.
1:46:20
SPEAKER_02: And I even listened to him on,
1:46:22
SPEAKER_02: he was on a podcast with Dave,
1:46:24
SPEAKER_02: the distributist,
1:46:25
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:46:27
SPEAKER_02: and I listened to his,
1:46:27
SPEAKER_02: his opinion.
1:46:28
SPEAKER_02: And,
1:46:30
SPEAKER_02: Those guys are interesting because I want to have Dave on here.
1:46:33
SPEAKER_02: I invited him and I'm going to follow up with him soon.
1:46:36
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that both of them do,
1:46:38
SPEAKER_02: they're very upper middle class,
1:46:40
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:46:40
SPEAKER_02: and their viewpoints come off as very upper middle class,
1:46:44
SPEAKER_02: you know.
1:46:45
SPEAKER_02: And their answers and solutions are very upper middle class.
1:46:49
SPEAKER_02: And it's interesting because you kind of disagreed with him.
1:46:51
And your main kind of disagreement was about his post where he
1:46:56
talks about moving
1:46:57
SPEAKER_02: outside of,
1:46:58
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:46:59
SPEAKER_02: moving out of England to a different country.
1:47:01
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:47:02
SPEAKER_02: And you,
1:47:03
SPEAKER_02: your,
1:47:03
your post was kind of critical of that because you see it as
1:47:07
constantly running away.
1:47:09
SPEAKER_02: And I, I tend to agree with that.
1:47:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, do you want to, do you want to talk a bit about a bit there?
1:47:13
SPEAKER_02: Cause I find it very fascinating.
1:47:15
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:47:15
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:47:16
SPEAKER_03: So,
1:47:17
SPEAKER_03: We had a little bit of a back and forth before he blocked me.
1:47:22
SPEAKER_03: One was on his original decision to move away.
1:47:26
SPEAKER_03: And we had a couple notes back and forth.
1:47:31
SPEAKER_03: And then I wrote a whole post, like a whole article about it.
1:47:36
SPEAKER_03: And he actually liked that one.
1:47:39
SPEAKER_03: Hit the like button.
1:47:41
SPEAKER_03: And everything else.
1:47:42
SPEAKER_03: So I thought we were cool on that.
1:47:45
SPEAKER_03: And then on his,
1:47:47
SPEAKER_03: like,
1:47:49
you need to be elite thing and join the things and make lots of
1:47:53
money so that you
1:47:54
SPEAKER_03: can change the world.
1:47:57
And this was after he wrote the post that he was going to move
1:48:02
away and run.
1:48:04
SPEAKER_03: That just, to me, stink of hypocrisy.
1:48:08
SPEAKER_03: So I called him out on it.
1:48:11
SPEAKER_03: I did the comment on the article that also restacked and everything else.
1:48:20
Especially after I learned on the last comment that he
1:48:28
automatically cuts off his
1:48:30
SPEAKER_03: comments to subscribers only after a couple days.
1:48:36
SPEAKER_03: And he didn't like that, apparently.
1:48:40
SPEAKER_03: And without any response, he blocks me.
1:48:44
SPEAKER_03: So it just seems so chicken shit, like you said.
1:48:48
SPEAKER_03: He doesn't like being called out that he wants to tell young men
1:48:52
SPEAKER_03: to just go off,
1:48:55
SPEAKER_03: join fame companies,
1:48:56
SPEAKER_03: make lots of money,
1:48:58
SPEAKER_03: do the fame company thing,
1:49:01
SPEAKER_03: kind of like what we were talking about earlier.
1:49:03
If you're going to be elite in a society,
1:49:06
that means you have to subscribe to their rules.
1:49:09
SPEAKER_03: You have to do whatever.
1:49:11
SPEAKER_03: And in his article, he says you don't.
1:49:14
SPEAKER_03: He makes the claim you don't.
1:49:16
SPEAKER_03: If you're good enough, you can have whatever views you want.
1:49:20
SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
1:49:22
SPEAKER_03: Maybe.
1:49:23
SPEAKER_03: Wait, say that again?
1:49:24
SPEAKER_03: He says, he made the claim in his article, like, if you're a top, like,
1:49:31
SPEAKER_03: coder or whatever at Google or Facebook or whatever,
1:49:36
SPEAKER_03: if you're elite enough,
1:49:38
SPEAKER_03: they don't care what your views are.
1:49:40
SPEAKER_03: And you can be, or maybe not Google.
1:49:44
SPEAKER_03: What did he say?
1:49:46
SPEAKER_03: Like at the finance thing and everything else.
1:49:49
SPEAKER_03: And he said, you should travel around the world.
1:49:51
SPEAKER_03: They'll send you to China.
1:49:52
SPEAKER_03: They'll send you this and that.
1:49:55
He basically said,
1:49:56
be an unrooted guy that sees the world makes lots of money.
1:50:00
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like,
1:50:01
SPEAKER_00: You're doing the opposite.
1:50:02
SPEAKER_00: What do you do with any of that?
1:50:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:50:04
SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
1:50:05
SPEAKER_00: You travel the world.
1:50:06
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
1:50:07
SPEAKER_03: But I mean,
1:50:08
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
1:50:10
SPEAKER_03: you,
1:50:10
SPEAKER_03: you,
1:50:10
your Substack is literally about becoming noble and you're
1:50:16
talking about going and
1:50:18
SPEAKER_03: making a,
1:50:20
SPEAKER_03: like a intentional community and
1:50:25
yourself that you have said britain is not worth my time it's
1:50:32
irredeemable you know
1:50:34
i'm done like what it's killing me because like in class i'm
1:50:38
going to use an
1:50:39
SPEAKER_00: example from class i was explaining the brilliance of
1:50:45
The Tokugawa policy regarding the daimo where they had them
1:50:49
alternative attendance
1:50:50
SPEAKER_00: where you had to live in Edo.
1:50:52
SPEAKER_00: What was it every other year?
1:50:54
SPEAKER_00: And like everybody understood,
1:50:57
what are you not taking care of when you are far away in a far
1:51:01
away part of the country?
1:51:02
SPEAKER_00: You're home.
1:51:03
SPEAKER_00: So it degrades.
1:51:05
SPEAKER_00: That was the entire goddamn point.
1:51:08
SPEAKER_00: So to say,
1:51:09
SPEAKER_00: hey,
1:51:10
go do this CEO stuff or go do this high pay elite human capital
1:51:13
stuff and go travel
1:51:14
SPEAKER_00: and say,
1:51:15
SPEAKER_00: well,
1:51:15
SPEAKER_00: you're not home building anything.
1:51:17
you got tons of money but i mean talking about my god and i
1:51:22
know you talk about
1:51:22
this stuff too so you'll probably i i would love to hear what
1:51:25
you have to say about
1:51:26
this but how ridiculous is it to say go make tons of money yeah
1:51:30
in a fiat currency
1:51:32
all right um watch it go up in flames when when inflation and
1:51:37
all that stuff i mean
1:51:37
SPEAKER_00: come on guys but by building anything real
1:51:41
SPEAKER_02: By his logic,
1:51:43
SPEAKER_02: you could tell a girl,
1:51:45
SPEAKER_02: go be a high-class prostitute,
1:51:47
SPEAKER_02: spread your legs,
1:51:49
SPEAKER_02: make that bag...
1:51:51
SPEAKER_02: And then take it.
1:51:53
SPEAKER_02: Because that's what you're telling people to do.
1:51:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're whoring out.
1:51:57
SPEAKER_02: Because the thing is, you're taking the demon's coin by doing that.
1:52:03
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
1:52:04
SPEAKER_03: He's trying to claim somehow,
1:52:06
SPEAKER_03: logically,
1:52:07
SPEAKER_03: that you're not prostituting yourself while prostituting yourself.
1:52:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:52:10
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:52:13
But then,
1:52:14
like,
1:52:15
how are you supposed to build society when you're untethered?
1:52:18
SPEAKER_03: Like...
1:52:19
SPEAKER_00: Part of the brilliance of it is being tethered,
1:52:22
and that's what makes people – that's what makes elite and
1:52:25
nobles worth paying
1:52:26
SPEAKER_00: attention to because they're actually tethered to my problems.
1:52:29
SPEAKER_00: I can actually get help and make decent – make something better,
1:52:34
SPEAKER_00: make something decent by throwing in my lot with those folks.
1:52:38
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:52:39
SPEAKER_03: And you can look to the French Revolution to this.
1:52:43
SPEAKER_03: I mean, literally, look at France.
1:52:46
I was just thinking about how also one of the things nobles
1:52:49
constantly forget and
1:52:50
SPEAKER_00: these elites constantly forget is that you screw up enough,
1:52:57
SPEAKER_00: violence is going to remind you of just how fragile all this is.
1:53:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:53:03
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
1:53:04
SPEAKER_03: it was,
1:53:05
it was the ones that were centralized that had to go to the
1:53:11
King that were all over
1:53:14
that were all overthrown and had to go to the guillotine or
1:53:17
like all went in,
1:53:19
SPEAKER_03: all in on the French revolution and had the peasants hate their guts.
1:53:24
SPEAKER_03: But the ones that were the poor elites were,
1:53:28
SPEAKER_03: and everything else, they're like, nope, nope.
1:53:31
SPEAKER_03: We actually, we like our peasants, and our peasants love us.
1:53:38
SPEAKER_03: We're going to not go with this.
1:53:40
SPEAKER_03: We're going to stay with the church, and we're going to fight back.
1:53:45
SPEAKER_03: So, no.
1:53:49
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's like no one reads history.
1:53:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:53:52
SPEAKER_00: You know,
1:53:53
SPEAKER_00: it strikes me,
1:53:53
SPEAKER_00: it strikes me that this is why somebody,
1:53:55
SPEAKER_00: what we,
1:53:56
SPEAKER_00: we just celebrated the guy's birthday.
1:53:57
SPEAKER_00: I think Robert E.
1:53:58
SPEAKER_00: Lee,
1:53:58
SPEAKER_00: general Robert E.
1:53:59
SPEAKER_00: Lee talk about,
1:54:00
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:54:00
librarian talks about him as one of the few proper American
1:54:04
nobles and he's right.
1:54:05
SPEAKER_00: And the guy fought with his guys.
1:54:08
SPEAKER_00: Like he's right there.
1:54:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:54:11
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:54:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean that, how do people not realize this?
1:54:14
SPEAKER_00: You can't, you can't, you can't fight a bureaucratic,
1:54:19
organization or create any some kind of meaningful you know
1:54:22
godly thing when you're
1:54:24
approaching it like a bureaucrat in an office telling people
1:54:27
what to do no you got
1:54:28
to get your hands dirty kids sorry there is no shortcut there's
1:54:33
no shortcut to that
1:54:34
there is there is room in our society there is room in every
1:54:37
society for the edge
1:54:39
SPEAKER_02: cases okay
1:54:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:54:41
SPEAKER_02: There's always going to be,
1:54:42
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:54:43
SPEAKER_02: the artists,
1:54:44
SPEAKER_02: the homosexual artists,
1:54:46
SPEAKER_02: the degenerates,
1:54:47
SPEAKER_02: the weirdos,
1:54:48
SPEAKER_02: the David Lynch types,
1:54:50
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:54:50
those guys that are on the edge and they're unique and they're
1:54:54
going to either come
1:54:55
SPEAKER_02: up on top or spectacularly burnout.
1:54:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:54:59
SPEAKER_02: But those people are the point zero, zero, zero, zero percent.
1:55:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:55:04
SPEAKER_02: Um,
1:55:06
You cannot tell a teenager or a young adult that the best way
1:55:11
to a good life is to
1:55:12
SPEAKER_02: become a corporate drone while still holding on to your things.
1:55:17
Ultimately,
1:55:18
in order to succeed in the enemy's world,
1:55:21
you have to become the enemy.
1:55:23
SPEAKER_02: And that stuff corrupts you.
1:55:25
Because you start making that money,
1:55:27
well,
1:55:27
then you've got to go to the parties.
1:55:28
SPEAKER_02: In order to go to the parties, you've got to buy that BMW.
1:55:32
SPEAKER_02: And if you're living the life of a degenerate shitlib,
1:55:36
SPEAKER_02: even though you believe in whatever,
1:55:38
SPEAKER_02: you're still a degenerate shitlib.
1:55:40
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:55:41
SPEAKER_02: You're still a materialist, right?
1:55:43
SPEAKER_02: If you do everything that they do,
1:55:45
SPEAKER_02: but deep inside you pretend that they're not,
1:55:47
SPEAKER_02: that's not the kind of life.
1:55:48
SPEAKER_02: You're living an incongruent, spiritually draining life, you know?
1:55:53
SPEAKER_02: And you see a lot of these right-wing guys.
1:55:55
And this is where some of the lefty kind of guys on Twitter and
1:55:57
stuff are right.
1:55:58
SPEAKER_02: They always make the whole like, oh, you know, American psycho.
1:56:03
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't supposed to be aspirational.
1:56:05
And in a way they're absolutely right because you have these
1:56:08
guys like are all like
1:56:10
SPEAKER_02: Patrick Bateman pilled or whatever,
1:56:11
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:56:12
And it's clear,
1:56:13
it's clear that they've never read the freaking book,
1:56:17
right?
1:56:17
Or completely misunderstood the movie because the one thing
1:56:21
about Patrick Bateman
1:56:23
SPEAKER_02: is that he is a soulless demon,
1:56:25
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:56:26
right he literally cannot connect with humans he's not human
1:56:30
right is his lifestyle
1:56:33
has drained him of basic humanity that he fills that hole in
1:56:37
his soul or the lack
1:56:38
of soul in his body with you know media trivia right like him
1:56:43
him naming all those
1:56:44
bands and stuff and those restaurants he's basically doing the
1:56:48
1980s power version
1:56:49
SPEAKER_02: of collecting you know fun business cards the business card yeah
1:56:52
SPEAKER_02: It's Funko Pops for the elite, right, is what he's doing.
1:56:57
And one of the most interesting things in the book that isn't
1:57:02
really – it doesn't
1:57:03
come off as well in the movie is that all the characters are interchangeable.
1:57:09
He constantly runs into other people and he never remembers
1:57:13
their name or the
1:57:15
SPEAKER_02: people never remember his name.
1:57:17
SPEAKER_02: Right?
1:57:18
SPEAKER_02: And they all look the same.
1:57:20
SPEAKER_02: They all wear the same suits and the same all over people's glasses.
1:57:24
SPEAKER_02: And they're always like, oh, I had dinner with so-and-so.
1:57:26
And he knows that that couldn't have been possible because he
1:57:29
killed that dude.
1:57:30
SPEAKER_02: Right?
1:57:31
But it's because they're soulless cogs in a corporate machine
1:57:36
that is not real.
1:57:37
SPEAKER_02: You know what's interesting?
1:57:38
SPEAKER_02: What does Patrick Bateman do?
1:57:40
SPEAKER_02: Nothing.
1:57:41
SPEAKER_02: You never see him working.
1:57:42
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't work.
1:57:43
SPEAKER_02: He just collects a...
1:57:46
SPEAKER_02: Does he even have a job?
1:57:47
SPEAKER_02: Is that even a fantasy, right?
1:57:50
SPEAKER_00: Is any of that real?
1:57:51
SPEAKER_02: Anybody that's worked a job like that, okay?
1:57:53
SPEAKER_02: And I have been in jobs where they're just draining like that, right?
1:58:00
SPEAKER_02: You don't...
1:58:01
SPEAKER_02: they spiritually drain you.
1:58:03
SPEAKER_02: That's where the cost is.
1:58:04
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:58:05
SPEAKER_02: If you work in that environment, you become that environment.
1:58:09
SPEAKER_00: You know,
1:58:10
SPEAKER_02: I don't think this,
1:58:11
SPEAKER_02: unless you're the top,
1:58:12
SPEAKER_02: top zero,
1:58:13
SPEAKER_02: zero percent elite person that can resist that world.
1:58:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:58:17
It chews you up and spits you out because there's no way you
1:58:20
can – because they get you,
1:58:21
man.
1:58:22
SPEAKER_02: First it's the new car.
1:58:24
SPEAKER_02: Then it's the boat.
1:58:25
SPEAKER_02: Then it's the girlfriend with the Botox and blah, blah, blah.
1:58:27
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:58:28
And you've got to keep up with your coworkers and you've got to
1:58:30
keep up with
1:58:31
SPEAKER_02: everybody else in the social circle.
1:58:33
SPEAKER_02: And you blink your eyes and you are – you're that.
1:58:39
SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of –
1:58:41
SPEAKER_00: something I've heard from, you know, my military veteran friends.
1:58:45
And then I'm going to bring Blade Runner into this real quick
1:58:47
because you're the
1:58:48
SPEAKER_00: stuff that I watched this week.
1:58:50
SPEAKER_00: But I always hear with,
1:58:51
SPEAKER_00: hey,
1:58:52
SPEAKER_00: with with with military,
1:58:53
SPEAKER_00: it's do you want to be somebody or do you want to do something?
1:58:58
SPEAKER_00: And if you want to do something well,
1:58:59
SPEAKER_00: you're probably not going to go very high up the ranks,
1:59:01
SPEAKER_00: but you're going to accomplish things that are going to be meaningful.
1:59:06
SPEAKER_00: And this week,
1:59:07
SPEAKER_00: to kind of introduce kids to Japan and get them kind of bought in,
1:59:10
SPEAKER_00: I showed them the first four minutes of Blade Runner.
1:59:13
SPEAKER_00: And having watched it repeatedly,
1:59:17
SPEAKER_00: the mastery of that opening scene,
1:59:19
SPEAKER_00: where it's all about hunting replicants,
1:59:21
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:59:21
SPEAKER_00: It's all about trying to figure out if Leon's a human or not.
1:59:25
SPEAKER_00: But who's Holden?
1:59:27
SPEAKER_00: The guy giving the interview.
1:59:29
SPEAKER_00: He's just sharing questions that he was told.
1:59:32
SPEAKER_00: He's doing what he's told to do.
1:59:34
SPEAKER_00: So who's really the robot?
1:59:35
SPEAKER_00: And I love the fact that, yeah, let me tell you about my mother.
1:59:39
SPEAKER_00: Blows the dude away.
1:59:41
SPEAKER_00: That happened.
1:59:44
SPEAKER_00: Leon made his will manifest in the world.
1:59:51
SPEAKER_00: Holden's gone.
1:59:52
SPEAKER_00: Like,
1:59:53
So who's really the human there who actually did something as
1:59:56
opposed to just,
1:59:58
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:59:58
SPEAKER_00: beep,
1:59:58
SPEAKER_00: beep,
1:59:58
SPEAKER_00: boop,
1:59:59
SPEAKER_00: boop,
1:59:59
SPEAKER_00: count the business cards.
2:00:01
SPEAKER_00: Do you guys see what I'm saying?
2:00:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:00:03
SPEAKER_03: It's like, man, I love that stuff.
2:00:05
SPEAKER_03: So good.
2:00:06
People don't realize like how much of a slave to things that
2:00:09
they become like
2:00:10
SPEAKER_03: Alexander was saying.
2:00:13
SPEAKER_03: The debt is usury.
2:00:16
SPEAKER_03: We lose sight of that these days, but the car debt is slavery.
2:00:24
Until you pay it off,
2:00:25
you're enslaved to whatever jobs you have to take to pay it off.
2:00:30
SPEAKER_03: The house, everything else.
2:00:32
So many of the people we think are rich and famous and have
2:00:38
lots of money don't
2:00:39
SPEAKER_03: because they have so much debt on their balance sheet.
2:00:42
SPEAKER_03: They're slaves, yeah.
2:00:44
SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
2:00:48
SPEAKER_03: I am probably one of the poorest people living like listening to this,
2:00:54
SPEAKER_03: but I have no debt and that makes it so and I own my own business.
2:00:59
That makes it so that I get to make a lot of my own hours and I
2:01:06
get to spend time
2:01:07
SPEAKER_03: with my kids,
2:01:08
more time with my kids and take off holy days and and lots of
2:01:14
other things that
2:01:14
SPEAKER_03: just aren't possible.
2:01:17
SPEAKER_03: when you have all this debt hanging over your head.
2:01:21
SPEAKER_03: And people don't understand that.
2:01:23
SPEAKER_03: Like they just don't grok that kind of life that...
2:01:29
SPEAKER_03: if you make those choices, it means something.
2:01:34
SPEAKER_03: And if you pursue a life of virtue,
2:01:39
SPEAKER_03: like we were getting about earlier,
2:01:41
it means a different kind of nobility where people might start
2:01:47
listening to you for
2:01:48
SPEAKER_03: what you have to say instead of the dollar bills in your pocket.
2:01:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:01:55
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:01:56
SPEAKER_02: Because it's a different kind of wealth.
2:01:59
all right and your your soul and your well-being is is valuable
2:02:06
it's when you are
2:02:08
employed when you take an action you're putting yourself out
2:02:11
there and if you if
2:02:15
your end goal is a abstract financial transaction your life is
2:02:21
going to represent
2:02:23
SPEAKER_02: abstract financial transactions
2:02:26
SPEAKER_02: And that's how the reality is, you know.
2:02:30
And I find myself in a field and I've been fortunate to work to
2:02:36
where I go home
2:02:37
SPEAKER_02: like at one o'clock every day for the most part,
2:02:39
SPEAKER_02: you know.
2:02:40
uh to spend time with my daughter and i go you know i have time
2:02:44
to do stuff like
2:02:45
this not as much as i want to and i'm constantly working to
2:02:49
limit this but in order
2:02:50
to do that i have to take a significant financial cut all right
2:02:56
i know that i made
2:02:57
choices in my life that are financially dumb by the standards
2:03:02
of people that you
2:03:03
SPEAKER_02: know talk about elite maxing and stuff i have chosen
2:03:08
SPEAKER_02: to live in a state far away from people,
2:03:10
SPEAKER_02: and I've chosen to drive a Toyota Corolla instead of a BMW,
2:03:14
SPEAKER_02: and I've chosen all kinds of things that because of the downgrade,
2:03:19
SPEAKER_02: socially at least,
2:03:21
SPEAKER_02: it allows me to write,
2:03:23
SPEAKER_02: to read,
2:03:23
SPEAKER_02: to spend time with my family.
2:03:25
SPEAKER_02: And I have friends that did it the opposite way,
2:03:29
SPEAKER_02: and they did do the power jobs and stuff,
2:03:32
SPEAKER_02: and they're all miserable.
2:03:34
SPEAKER_02: All right, they're all miserable.
2:03:35
And,
2:03:36
you know,
2:03:36
it might be hearsay,
2:03:38
it might be,
2:03:39
you know,
2:03:41
my opinion,
2:03:42
but
2:03:44
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't trade my life for him.
2:03:45
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
2:03:46
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's cool, man.
2:03:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to work 14 hours a day,
2:03:50
SPEAKER_02: not away from my family when I could,
2:03:52
SPEAKER_02: you know,
2:03:53
SPEAKER_02: be with them.
2:03:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:03:55
SPEAKER_02: So that's the kind of stuff that,
2:03:57
SPEAKER_02: that in a lot of this advice that you're giving young people,
2:04:01
SPEAKER_02: you never hear,
2:04:02
SPEAKER_02: which is people,
2:04:03
SPEAKER_02: people always have that line.
2:04:04
SPEAKER_02: We're like,
2:04:06
When I was going to school,
2:04:07
people said,
2:04:07
oh,
2:04:08
follow your dreams or whatever,
2:04:09
you know?
2:04:10
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know what?
2:04:10
SPEAKER_02: I like that line, okay?
2:04:13
SPEAKER_02: What I always tell people is identify what you don't want to do.
2:04:17
SPEAKER_02: Identify where you don't want to be in life, you know?
2:04:20
SPEAKER_02: And avoid that.
2:04:23
SPEAKER_02: In my entire life,
2:04:24
I've identified that I do not want to be a freaking Patrick
2:04:29
Bateman slave in a
2:04:30
SPEAKER_02: corporate machine ever,
2:04:32
SPEAKER_02: period.
2:04:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to work in an office.
2:04:34
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to wear a tie.
2:04:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to have meetings to go to or any of that stuff.
2:04:40
SPEAKER_02: I would rather be a homeless person than do that.
2:04:43
right and i i know that that that doesn't give me a yacht and
2:04:47
it doesn't give me a
2:04:47
trip to you know paris every every few months or or whatever
2:04:51
and i'm getting
2:04:52
invited to the cool parties but you know what i get invited to
2:04:55
my kids recital and
2:04:56
SPEAKER_02: that's that's a lot more important to me than any of that shit you know
2:05:02
SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
2:05:03
And to me,
2:05:04
I've always relentlessly pursued whatever I thought was the truth.
2:05:10
SPEAKER_03: So for me, I was the shitlib when I was growing up.
2:05:14
SPEAKER_03: I was a theater major.
2:05:16
SPEAKER_03: I went to school for that.
2:05:19
And then I worked in theater while working in Starbucks in Portland,
2:05:24
Oregon.
2:05:24
SPEAKER_03: And then I went for a master's in Boston.
2:05:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:05:29
SPEAKER_03: dropped out of that and then worked in Chicago for a couple of years,
2:05:32
SPEAKER_03: converted to Catholicism and then became an electrician,
2:05:36
SPEAKER_03: um,
2:05:37
SPEAKER_03: moved out of Chicago to get away from,
2:05:39
SPEAKER_03: uh,
2:05:40
SPEAKER_03: the company I was keeping and,
2:05:42
SPEAKER_03: um,
2:05:44
SPEAKER_03: I'm raising a beautiful family.
2:05:47
SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm poor, uh, but I'm thrilled.
2:05:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm happy because I am relentlessly pursuing that.
2:05:57
SPEAKER_03: Um,
2:05:58
SPEAKER_03: And I trim away all excess because it's not necessary.
2:06:06
Everything else is a distraction to the happiness and joy that
2:06:09
I see when I see my
2:06:11
SPEAKER_03: children running around in the field,
2:06:15
SPEAKER_03: that I see when they get to help me repairing the car.
2:06:19
SPEAKER_03: working with me at work, just playing.
2:06:25
SPEAKER_03: And on a special night,
2:06:28
we played games together or watch Planet Earth together or
2:06:34
whatever it is,
2:06:36
SPEAKER_03: coloring,
2:06:37
SPEAKER_03: whatever,
2:06:38
SPEAKER_03: just the simple things.
2:06:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
2:06:41
You know,
2:06:41
what's funny to me,
2:06:42
I'm thinking about my own life as you guys...
2:06:45
talk about this and perhaps the contribution i could make you
2:06:49
know as we're saying
2:06:51
as we're essentially telling young men specifically hey guys
2:06:54
here's here's the
2:06:55
SPEAKER_00: skinny
2:06:57
I am the epitome of it's better to be lucky than good because
2:07:01
I've definitely made
2:07:02
many decisions that have taken me all over the United States
2:07:04
and all different
2:07:05
SPEAKER_00: kinds of things.
2:07:06
And the only reason I've ended up where I am,
2:07:08
where I am incredibly satisfied.
2:07:11
SPEAKER_00: And here I am,
2:07:11
SPEAKER_00: you know,
2:07:12
talking to you guys and doing this podcast and doing my
2:07:14
teaching and this and that
2:07:15
SPEAKER_00: and the other thing.
2:07:16
SPEAKER_00: I made friends with a good man years ago.
2:07:18
And when the time came,
2:07:21
you know,
2:07:22
we took advantage of the situation and bam,
2:07:25
SPEAKER_00: Here I am.
2:07:26
SPEAKER_00: That's literally it.
2:07:27
SPEAKER_00: So guys,
2:07:28
SPEAKER_00: sometimes it's just,
2:07:30
SPEAKER_00: you don't know where you're going to get,
2:07:32
SPEAKER_00: but as long as you try to stay true to what you want and who do you are,
2:07:35
SPEAKER_00: who you are and what you don't want out of life,
2:07:39
SPEAKER_00: you'll find your way to it.
2:07:40
SPEAKER_00: Just be, find your way to it.
2:07:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:07:42
SPEAKER_00: Just be a good guy.
2:07:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:07:43
SPEAKER_00: Just be a good person.
2:07:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:07:45
SPEAKER_00: I think that if you're good, do what you think is right.
2:07:47
SPEAKER_02: He will eventually end up on top.
2:07:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't, I don't know.
2:07:49
SPEAKER_02: It's optimistic and it's silly, but I honestly believe that because I,
2:07:56
SPEAKER_00: You'll get the best shot.
2:07:57
SPEAKER_00: You'll get the best shot possible.
2:07:58
You may not end up on top because life could have killed me on
2:08:00
the way here.
2:08:01
SPEAKER_00: It nearly did.
2:08:03
SPEAKER_00: But it's the best shot you've got to getting out on top.
2:08:06
SPEAKER_02: And maybe the top is not that great anyways.
2:08:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, how could it be?
2:08:13
SPEAKER_02: And that's something that we really need to talk about.
2:08:16
And maybe it's just our shitty Christian volcano god or
2:08:20
whatever slave morality and
2:08:23
SPEAKER_02: the Nietzscheans can look down on us.
2:08:24
SPEAKER_02: But you know what?
2:08:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm content and happy where I am,
2:08:28
SPEAKER_02: you know,
2:08:29
SPEAKER_02: and you're a slave to your debt and to your,
2:08:33
SPEAKER_02: your grind.
2:08:34
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know what to say about that.
2:08:36
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
2:08:37
SPEAKER_00: You know,
2:08:37
SPEAKER_00: at,
2:08:38
SPEAKER_00: at the end of the day,
2:08:39
SPEAKER_00: if the Nietzscheans want to look down on the Christian God,
2:08:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to say,
2:08:42
SPEAKER_00: look,
2:08:42
SPEAKER_00: the calendar is based off that guy.
2:08:43
SPEAKER_00: So he clearly did something fucking right.
2:08:45
SPEAKER_00: All right.
2:08:46
SPEAKER_00: So there you go guys.
2:08:47
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
2:08:49
SPEAKER_00: He didn't die of syphilis.
2:08:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:08:51
SPEAKER_00: The whole, the whole world marks the year based on that dude.
2:08:54
SPEAKER_00: So, uh, yeah.
2:08:57
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me more about job maxing.
2:08:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:09:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:09:01
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and you know, take it back.
2:09:03
SPEAKER_02: I feel it's, you know, I agreed with you.
2:09:05
SPEAKER_02: I fall on your side uncouth in that, in that conversation, you know,
2:09:09
And I think it's an important one to have when we do talk to
2:09:12
young people,
2:09:13
SPEAKER_02: because I do talk to young people all the time.
2:09:15
SPEAKER_02: And I always try to give the best advice.
2:09:18
SPEAKER_02: And I think I don't give the elite advice.
2:09:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't tell people to mad.
2:09:21
I tell people to,
2:09:22
you know what,
2:09:23
find something that makes them feel good.
2:09:25
You know,
2:09:25
like,
2:09:26
not feel good,
2:09:27
like physically,
2:09:28
but something that they're proud of.
2:09:30
SPEAKER_02: And if you do that, you'll succeed.
2:09:35
And even if you don't succeed,
2:09:36
because success doesn't really matter,
2:09:38
right?
2:09:38
SPEAKER_02: You live a good life.
2:09:40
SPEAKER_02: The goal,
2:09:41
the only thing that matters is will you live a good life and
2:09:45
will you be able to
2:09:46
SPEAKER_02: square it when it's done?
2:09:47
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
2:09:50
SPEAKER_02: And it's true.
2:09:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the best I can say to that is I hope so.
2:09:54
SPEAKER_02: Right?
2:09:56
SPEAKER_02: Of course I hope so.
2:09:57
SPEAKER_02: I hope so, because you know what?
2:09:59
SPEAKER_02: We're walking a path through the forest, you know?
2:10:02
SPEAKER_02: And hopefully... Through the Tempest?
2:10:04
Yeah,
2:10:04
when it's over,
2:10:06
you know,
2:10:06
we are worthy of entering the city,
2:10:10
right?
2:10:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:10:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
2:10:12
SPEAKER_03: I mean...
2:10:13
Our Lord Jesus Christ,
2:10:15
he had the blood in him to claim the crown of Jerusalem,
2:10:20
like of Israel.
2:10:21
SPEAKER_03: But he was a carpenter.
2:10:23
SPEAKER_03: He chose that.
2:10:24
SPEAKER_03: He chose to be a poor carpenter.
2:10:26
SPEAKER_03: He didn't keep that off his resume.
2:10:28
SPEAKER_03: And he probably in those times also was farming.
2:10:36
and which means he dug into the pig manure and well they
2:10:41
wouldn't have the but he
2:10:43
dug into the manure like he farmed it he tilled it so like get
2:10:48
your hands dirty
2:10:49
people don't be afraid of it if he wanted to be an elite god he
2:10:54
would have been an
2:10:55
SPEAKER_02: emperor of rome
2:10:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:10:58
That's one of my favorite things about the story and that's one
2:11:00
of the things that
2:11:01
SPEAKER_00: really made me pivot around and back and be like,
2:11:03
SPEAKER_00: oh,
2:11:03
SPEAKER_00: holy crap,
2:11:04
SPEAKER_00: this is right.
2:11:05
He would have been the god emperor of Rome or the god emperor
2:11:09
of the Chinese or
2:11:10
SPEAKER_02: whatever massive empire existed at that time.
2:11:15
It's a heck of a thing to think about a guy like Julius Caesar
2:11:20
and the striving of
2:11:23
SPEAKER_00: that man to reach the top.
2:11:26
And he gets a knife in his back and basically tells Brutus,
2:11:29
I'll see you in hell.
2:11:30
SPEAKER_00: And that's impressive.
2:11:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm not knocking the guy like, holy crap.
2:11:37
SPEAKER_00: And a carpenter in Judea is like, all right, hold my beer.
2:11:40
SPEAKER_00: Watch this.
2:11:41
SPEAKER_00: The tomb's empty.
2:11:43
eat it caesar and one changed one changed the world massively
2:11:46
more because yeah you
2:11:48
know yeah it's cool it's cool it's exactly cool all the god
2:11:53
emperors of the chinese
2:11:54
and all the sumerians all the different gods the aztecs that
2:11:58
were you know
2:11:58
SPEAKER_02: incarnate gods are are nothing but dust you know and
2:12:05
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
2:12:06
SPEAKER_02: It's fantastic.
2:12:07
SPEAKER_02: And the carpenter is immortal.
2:12:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't even think it knocks any of that stuff per se.
2:12:15
SPEAKER_00: It's just going, yeah, check this out.
2:12:19
SPEAKER_00: You thought this was cool?
2:12:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
2:12:21
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, anyway.
2:12:22
SPEAKER_03: He took broken tribes,
2:12:24
SPEAKER_03: like disloyal,
2:12:25
SPEAKER_03: broken,
2:12:26
SPEAKER_03: stupid,
2:12:27
SPEAKER_03: stubborn,
2:12:28
retarded tribes of Israel who managed to get themselves lost
2:12:33
and stolen and,
2:12:35
SPEAKER_03: like,
2:12:37
SPEAKER_03: just took the remnants.
2:12:38
SPEAKER_03: And even they were disloyal.
2:12:41
SPEAKER_03: So 12...
2:12:43
SPEAKER_03: just 12 of them.
2:12:44
SPEAKER_03: And of those 12 scattered.
2:12:47
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
2:12:47
SPEAKER_03: We got one left and some ladies.
2:12:51
SPEAKER_03: Let's do it guys.
2:12:52
SPEAKER_03: All right.
2:12:53
SPEAKER_00: Let's change.
2:12:54
SPEAKER_00: We got them right where we want them.
2:12:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, isn't that, isn't that just the story of our species though?
2:12:58
This is one of the things that drives me up the wall about so
2:13:00
much discourse is
2:13:01
SPEAKER_00: just how much everybody puts down humanity.
2:13:07
SPEAKER_00: And like, yes, we have enormous flaws.
2:13:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not even going to, you know, those go without question.
2:13:14
SPEAKER_00: But you read constant history like the sailor that we talked about.
2:13:19
SPEAKER_00: William, what was his last name?
2:13:21
SPEAKER_00: The guy who ended up with Tokugawa?
2:13:24
SPEAKER_00: William Adams.
2:13:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, William Adams.
2:13:27
SPEAKER_00: The guy served under Sir Francis Drake,
2:13:30
SPEAKER_00: fought the Spanish Armada,
2:13:32
SPEAKER_00: heads all the way out to Japan,
2:13:34
SPEAKER_00: right?
2:13:34
Has all that happens and dies thousands of miles away from home
2:13:38
in an absolutely...
2:13:40
bizarre place that somehow he was able to make it i mean come
2:13:44
on what kind of life
2:13:45
is that that's incredible that's absolutely bonkers to me you
2:13:48
know as long as
2:13:50
you're breathing never to admit defeat like why right we just
2:13:54
we just we keep
2:13:55
failing until we can't fail anymore because we're dead right
2:14:00
it's great right hey
2:14:01
SPEAKER_00: good enough good enough for me
2:14:04
all right guys it is a little bit past our our call call in
2:14:08
time it's uh 7 15 over
2:14:10
here right now and i gotta eat dinner with my family and that's
2:14:14
more important in
2:14:14
the podcast so uh mr uncouth barbarian thank you for coming on
2:14:20
man that was a great
2:14:20
conversation absolute pleasure you know it's a blast we got a
2:14:25
little bit serious
2:14:26
compared to some other episodes but that's great you know
2:14:28
that's what we want to do
2:14:29
SPEAKER_02: we want to have all all levels of the conversation
2:14:33
SPEAKER_02: Like usual,
2:14:34
there's like 17 other questions written down in my journal that
2:14:37
I did not get to,
2:14:38
SPEAKER_02: you know,
2:14:39
SPEAKER_00: you also got the,
2:14:40
SPEAKER_00: you also got the questions from the audience.
2:14:42
SPEAKER_00: The one that stuck out to be was spilling the beans on my suit.
2:14:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
2:14:46
SPEAKER_00: I was about to bring that up.
2:14:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:14:50
I may,
2:14:50
I may or may not be willing to do that at some stage only
2:14:54
because if I do,
2:14:56
SPEAKER_00: the mystique will be gone.
2:14:57
SPEAKER_00: You guys are going to be like this fucking nerd.
2:14:59
SPEAKER_00: All right.
2:14:59
SPEAKER_00: So like,
2:15:00
SPEAKER_00: so anyway,
2:15:01
SPEAKER_02: so the,
2:15:01
the episode where Fisto spills the beans is going to be behind
2:15:06
the paywall.
2:15:07
SPEAKER_02: All right.
2:15:09
SPEAKER_02: All right.
2:15:09
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be behind the paywall.
2:15:10
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
2:15:11
SPEAKER_02: All right.
2:15:11
SPEAKER_02: We need to make that bank.
2:15:12
SPEAKER_02: We need to be elite podcasters here, not just regular old podcasters.
2:15:17
SPEAKER_00: Is this a Gnostic knowledge kind of thing?
2:15:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, you got to pay.
2:15:21
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
2:15:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is how the Church of Fistology, this is how it starts.
2:15:25
SPEAKER_00: There's got to be tribute, incense burn, all that stuff.
2:15:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, boy.
2:15:28
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
2:15:29
um anyways uncouth thank you for coming on man uh for listeners
2:15:34
if you're not
2:15:34
following uncouth barbarian please do his one of the better
2:15:38
check this guy out
2:15:38
check this guy out 100 the great podcast i think we've got like
2:15:42
the best sub
2:15:43
stackers on here man we're just rocking it lately um and once
2:15:47
again please uh leave
2:15:49
comments and questions and uh you know i'll address them when i
2:15:52
feel like it
2:15:54
it's basically when I get around to it,
2:15:56
I try my best to reply to everybody.
2:15:59
SPEAKER_02: Lately, I've been playing Baldur's Gate 3.
2:16:01
SPEAKER_02: That's what I've been doing.
2:16:04
SPEAKER_00: Look, we're busy ignoring you.
2:16:05
SPEAKER_00: We're busy ignoring you, people.
2:16:07
SPEAKER_03: He's elite, man.
2:16:08
SPEAKER_00: Playing Baldur's Gate 3.
2:16:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm over here playing Skyrim.
2:16:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't have time to...
2:16:17
SPEAKER_00: I just don't have time.
2:16:18
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, guys.
2:16:19
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's my wife's fault, to be honest, right?
2:16:22
SPEAKER_02: Because during the snowstorm apocalypse.
2:16:24
SPEAKER_00: Just like us, the most misogynist podcast.
2:16:27
SPEAKER_02: No, she was like, okay.
2:16:28
SPEAKER_02: She's like, I really want to play Skyrim again.
2:16:30
SPEAKER_02: Because she was like a big Skyrim player when that came out.
2:16:33
And she's like,
2:16:34
man,
2:16:34
I want to play something like Skyrim with dragons and stuff.
2:16:37
SPEAKER_02: And then she was looking through the Xbox store online.
2:16:40
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, let's play Baldur's Gate.
2:16:42
SPEAKER_02: And she downloaded it.
2:16:42
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
2:16:43
SPEAKER_02: And then like I started playing and I'm like,
2:16:45
SPEAKER_02: well,
2:16:46
SPEAKER_02: there goes my life for the next 360 hours or whatever.
2:16:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:16:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it's, it's, it's up there with cyberpunk.
2:16:53
SPEAKER_02: It's not cyberpunk good, but it's up there with cyberpunk, you know?
2:16:56
And there's a,
2:16:57
there's a,
2:16:58
uh,
2:16:58
Baldur's gate version of,
2:17:00
uh,
2:17:00
Judy that you like,
2:17:01
uh,
2:17:02
like romance or whatever and i'm a fan i'm a fan there we go
2:17:06
right so for listeners
2:17:07
that played baldur's gate tell me your favorite uh girlfriend
2:17:10
slash boyfriend from
2:17:11
baldur's gate okay um and uh like usual i'll tell you my class
2:17:15
my class is uh half
2:17:17
elf bard female of course because i only play female characters
2:17:20
in my role-playing
2:17:21
SPEAKER_02: games because i'm a digital transsexual
2:17:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, yes, it's a le motif of the podcast.
2:17:27
SPEAKER_00: Why are you gay?
2:17:28
SPEAKER_03: Hey, I've heard good arguments.
2:17:31
If you're going to stare at a butt all the time,
2:17:32
might as well be a female butt.
2:17:35
SPEAKER_00: That's the best argument I've heard.
2:17:37
SPEAKER_00: I prefer first person, so it's a dude.
2:17:39
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
2:17:40
Well,
2:17:41
even in cyberpunk,
2:17:41
I played a female because I like to look in the mirror at myself.
2:17:44
SPEAKER_02: So it is a sort of digital transvestitism that I enjoy.
2:17:48
SPEAKER_02: That's all right.
2:17:49
SPEAKER_02: But they're always lesbians, okay?
2:17:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that makes it better.
2:17:53
SPEAKER_02: That makes it a lot better.
2:17:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm sorry.
2:17:55
I had to play a female in Cyberpunk because that's the only way
2:17:57
you can hook up with Judy,
2:17:58
dude.
2:18:00
SPEAKER_02: Come on, man.
2:18:00
SPEAKER_00: Pan Am.
2:18:01
SPEAKER_02: Pan Am, brother.
2:18:02
SPEAKER_02: No, we're not going to go into this for the next, you know, anyways.
2:18:05
So,
2:18:06
yeah,
2:18:06
throw in in comments,
2:18:07
your Baldur's Gate 3 girlfriend or boyfriend,
2:18:10
you know?
2:18:10
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
2:18:13
SPEAKER_02: I almost got you.
2:18:13
SPEAKER_02: You almost went off.
2:18:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm not doing another cyberpunk thing, you know?
2:18:20
SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
2:18:22
SPEAKER_02: And for listeners, please add...
2:18:25
SPEAKER_02: uncouth barbarian on the sub stack.
2:18:28
And,
2:18:28
you know,
2:18:28
because you guys love this show,
2:18:30
please like share and comment.
2:18:32
SPEAKER_02: And,
2:18:32
SPEAKER_02: you know,
2:18:33
SPEAKER_02: we've got some paid episodes coming up and then we've got,
2:18:37
SPEAKER_02: I've got guests for days.
2:18:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
2:18:38
I'm looking at my calendar and I've got people coming in left
2:18:41
and right and it's
2:18:42
SPEAKER_02: going to be cooler and cooler and,
2:18:44
SPEAKER_02: um,
2:18:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, we're going to talk about all the stuff.
2:18:48
SPEAKER_02: I kind of want to talk about Nosferatu, but not really.
2:18:51
SPEAKER_02: I already forgot most of it.
2:18:52
SPEAKER_02: So we're going to probably not talk about Nosferatu.
2:18:55
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'll talk about it next week.
2:18:57
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, like, share, and you guys have a good night.
2:19:01
SPEAKER_02: Good night, Uncouth.
2:19:01
SPEAKER_02: Good night, Fisto.
2:19:03
SPEAKER_02: We'll see you next week.
2:19:05
SPEAKER_02: Night.