Latest / Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson / Voices Beyond Words: Helena & Lina Hjalmarsson-Lyons on Autism, Love & Communication | EP 37

Transcript

Voices Beyond Words: Helena & Lina Hjalmarsson-Lyons on Autism, Love & Communication | EP 37 · Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

• 0:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.
• 0:01
  Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.
• 0:03
  I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times bestselling author of
• 0:06
  The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.
• 0:08
  Before I jump in with today's guest, I want to say a huge thank you to you, our
• 0:13
  audience, for helping to make this happen.
• 0:15
  I have a request.
• 0:16
  If you like what we do here, please give it a thumbs up,
• 0:19
  like, subscribe, tell a friend.
• 0:22
  It really, really helps us to make the pro.
• 0:24
  To find out about our certification courses, online video libraries,
• 0:29
  books, and other courses, please go to rupertisaacson.com.
• 0:34
  So now let's jump in.
• 0:36
  In this episode, you're gonna see something absolutely unprecedented.
• 0:40
  It's a girl, Lina, who has been nonverbal until quite recently, who has become
• 0:45
  verbal and communicative through a letter board, and you're gonna see her spelling
• 0:50
  out the letters both verbally and with her finger on her letter board, and putting
• 0:56
  together the sentences to answer my podcast questions, which is extraordinary.
• 1:01
  As you can imagine, this is gonna be a slightly laborious
• 1:05
  process at the beginning.
• 1:06
  So the first time she answers me, we will start off with the first one where
• 1:10
  we actually let her spell it all out laboriously, but in the inter interest
• 1:14
  of brevity Thereafter, we will cut ahead.
• 1:18
  Through that process to her answer.
• 1:20
  Otherwise obviously it'll take a very long time to listen to, but it is absolutely
• 1:23
  extraordinary and if anybody wants to listen to, listen to or see the full uncut
• 1:27
  version, we will put that up somewhere.
• 1:30
  So strapping guys, because this is something frankly I
• 1:33
  have never experienced before.
• 1:34
  Someone going from nonverbal to verbal in this way it's
• 1:38
  something incredibly beautiful.
• 1:39
  Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free.
• 1:41
  I have a very, very old friend and dear friend Helena Hjalmarsson here.
• 1:44
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:46
  And her daughter Lina, who I've also known from time.
• 1:50
  Those of you who know me and my story know that I'm an autism dad.
• 1:55
  And that in the early years of my journey with my son Rowan he was nonverbal.
• 2:01
  And this changed through interactions with horses and nature and so forth.
• 2:08
  HeLina has been one of my heroes for a long time.
• 2:13
  Swedish, living in New York.
• 2:15
  Autism mom and Lina, her daughter also we're so honored to have
• 2:21
  with us have been a team f.
• 2:24
  And have gone through.
• 2:27
  You guys have gone to Hallenbeck, you know, and, and yet here you're,
• 2:30
  and yet, and listen, lads, listeners, these guys really have gone.
• 2:37
  There's no, there's no, there's no.
• 2:40
  So the fact that they're sitting here glowing and smiling in upstate my toast.
• 2:45
  So I'm gonna, yes.
• 2:47
  I'm gonna ask you guys to introduce who you are, what you do, how you
• 2:52
  came to New York, how you came to this adventure, where you are now.
• 2:56
  So over to you.
• 2:57
  Helena Hjalmarsson: JL what is I talk about in toast?
• 3:00
  On?
• 3:01
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:01
  DY mm-hmm.
• 3:04
  Day.
• 3:05
  MD, day L rig, Uhhuh a rig, horse, and toast.
• 3:12
  M Yeah.
• 3:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:14
  Y Wrigley d Uhhuh.
• 3:16
  Really?
• 3:17
  That's what had him toe down.
• 3:18
  I see.
• 3:19
  C ni, TDD excited back in toe stem, O to, mm-hmm.
• 3:26
  B, D to B-H-D-R-D-I am already rly.
• 3:33
  Excited to be here.
• 3:36
  Rupert Isaacson: Thank you so much.
• 3:37
  Well, the, the fact that I'm, you here, Lina speaking off the, the letter
• 3:43
  board is something incredible because in my past interactions with you we
• 3:49
  haven't been able to have this kind of verbal contact, so I've had to guess
• 3:52
  switch on if I'm getting it right.
• 3:54
  So at this is, it's amazing.
• 3:57
  At what point did this ability to communicate through the letter
• 4:02
  board really start for you?
• 4:06
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I.
• 4:08
  RD Day LY Iray for him.
• 4:13
  Toast on it really was S.
• 4:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:16
  Day A L do NG.
• 4:20
  Long day Uhhuh, ND, and, and some toast on.
• 4:25
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:26
  And D.
• 4:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:32
  X, yeah.
• 4:34
  C, right?
• 4:37
  U, yeah.
• 4:38
  T nine.
• 4:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:43
  D.
• 4:44
  Yep.
• 4:44
  Pick it up a little.
• 4:45
  T.
• 4:45
  Yes.
• 4:46
  You got it.
• 4:46
  Nine.
• 4:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:47
  NG.
• 4:48
  Yeah.
• 4:50
  P.
• 4:50
  You got it.
• 4:50
  R.
• 4:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:51
  O.
• 4:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:52
  D.
• 4:53
  D.
• 4:54
  Yeah.
• 4:55
  S.
• 4:56
  S.
• 4:56
  Yeah.
• 4:56
  It really was a long and excruciating process.
• 5:01
  Rupert Isaacson: Can you tell us when it began and what were the main challenges?
• 5:07
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yes.
• 5:09
  Na nan s no, I real one, Yeah.
• 5:15
  LE in so many ways, I mastered the impossible, and it
• 5:19
  really did feel impossible.
• 5:21
  And, and, and it was very hard for you to even sit and Yes.
• 5:25
  You know, it was pretty dramatic session.
• 5:28
  Yes.
• 5:28
  Yeah.
• 5:28
  Rupert Isaacson: What made you persevere with, with it, Lina?
• 5:32
  Yeah.
• 5:32
  Why not just stay inside your world?
• 5:34
  Why not just stay inside your bubble?
• 5:36
  Why go through this excruciating process?
• 5:38
  Yes.
• 5:39
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm-hmm.
• 5:40
  Yes.
• 5:41
  Na n yeah.
• 5:42
  DLD in my life, I always endure the impossible.
• 5:49
  Na, uhhuh nan.
• 5:52
  NL uhhuh.
• 5:55
  D.
• 5:56
  Yeah.
• 5:58
  W uhhuh in learning how?
• 6:00
  Two . In learning how to spell, I set hi on a cloud.
• 6:07
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
• 6:09
  So my question though is with it being so hard to learn how to do this,
• 6:15
  Helena Hjalmarsson: yeah.
• 6:15
  Why
• 6:16
  Rupert Isaacson: learn?
• 6:16
  Why not just stay inside your bubble?
• 6:19
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I think if, you know, sitting high on a cloud means happiness.
• 6:22
  Right?
• 6:23
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 6:24
  Helena Hjalmarsson: So, you know, it just made her happy to be able to, okay.
• 6:27
  Mm.
• 6:29
  Rupert Isaacson: Fantastic.
• 6:30
  Alright, here's another question, Lina, before you were communicating
• 6:36
  through this letter board
• 6:38
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 6:39
  Rupert Isaacson: Were you communicating in other ways?
• 6:43
  And if so, how?
• 6:44
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm.
• 6:45
  Okay.
• 6:48
  IN skip it in so many ways and go straight on.
• 6:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:53
  R,
• 6:54
  Lina Hjalmarsson: one be just having, having, have you, have you having, you,
• 6:59
  having you a, a slice of toast R mm-hmm.
• 7:02
  Helena Hjalmarsson: In real time I saw incredible opportunity.
• 7:03
  You wanna elaborate a little or No?
• 7:05
  No.
• 7:06
  Okay.
• 7:07
  Okay.
• 7:08
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 7:09
  So do you.
• 7:12
  Still or also communicate in other ways.
• 7:16
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Oh, yeah, that's what the, that's right.
• 7:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:18
  Yes.
• 7:22
  So in seeing how a, a real way that I can say what I think in
• 7:27
  saturating all, other languages.
• 7:32
  You, you're gonna have to explain this, but virtue you, you have
• 7:36
  celebration to bake some morran mm-hmm.
• 7:39
  And saturating all other languages.
• 7:41
  Uhhuh, . Just like one, one language.
• 7:44
  Yes.
• 7:44
  Yeah.
• 7:44
  But so are you then saying that you did have other languages before?
• 7:48
  Okay.
• 7:49
  And I think that what Lu Rupert is interested in is,
• 7:53
  can you describe any of that?
• 7:56
  First one, or you don't wanna elaborate on that first?
• 7:58
  You wanna speak to more celebration on?
• 8:00
  Yeah.
• 8:01
  So what do you think?
• 8:02
  Ni?
• 8:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:04
  . I think Rupert loves the other languages.
• 8:10
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, that is very astute.
• 8:12
  Yeah.
• 8:13
  So I, I've come about it, I suppose the opposite.
• 8:20
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Hey, let's listen to what, so
• 8:22
  Rupert Isaacson: I, growing up,
• 8:24
  Helena Hjalmarsson: yes.
• 8:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Had a very private language with yes, one could say God
• 8:29
  or the divine as a very small boy.
• 8:32
  And I always to some degree could talk to animals and I could
• 8:37
  always, to some degree feel the landscape and nature talking to me.
• 8:42
  But as one gets older, this gets quieter.
• 8:47
  And then I fell in love with words and became a writer.
• 8:52
  And a word Smith you could say.
• 8:54
  And now increasingly I am, let's say I love both.
• 9:01
  I value the.
• 9:03
  Ability to speak as we're speaking in real time.
• 9:08
  And I'm, I know that you're also writing Lina and I, I'd love you to Yes.
• 9:12
  Share some of what you've been writing, but I am also interested Yes, of course.
• 9:17
  And I do love your right these other languages because I think if it's
• 9:23
  something that we need to know, and so people like you who have a, had access
• 9:29
  to those other languages in a very real way, I think have a lot to teach us.
• 9:33
  Because I think we all could access them if we, if we're shown how.
• 9:39
  And we probably know them when we're very, very small and
• 9:44
  then little by little, yeah.
• 9:47
  The noise of the world takes them away.
• 9:50
  So you are right.
• 9:51
  I do love those other languages, but I also love this language
• 9:54
  that we are sharing now.
• 9:55
  And I, and I really value your.
• 9:59
  Mastering of it in those other languages that you are so right.
• 10:02
  That I love.
• 10:05
  What can you share with us who are stuck in this type of language?
• 10:12
  What can we learn from those other languages?
• 10:16
  And can we learn, can we learn to speak them and hear them?
• 10:21
  We neurotypical people
• 10:23
  Helena Hjalmarsson: what you think?
• 10:23
  Yeah.
• 10:25
  Na,
• 10:26
  Rupert Isaacson: a very long question.
• 10:27
  Sorry.
• 10:31
  Helena Hjalmarsson: IS nan It is not for me to say if other
• 10:37
  people on the spectrum talks.
• 10:40
  In other languages.
• 10:41
  Yes.
• 10:42
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 10:46
  Helena Hjalmarsson: NY . Thanks.
• 10:50
  H.
• 10:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:50
  D me.
• 10:51
  Did you get that?
• 10:53
  That can, can you put
• 10:54
  Rupert Isaacson: that together for me?
• 10:56
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 10:56
  In the past I saw things about other people that was overwhelming to me.
• 11:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 11:05
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I, I, ST, . I still see, see things about others.
• 11:09
  Emotion first.
• 11:10
  Yeah.
• 11:10
  . I still see things about others emotion.
• 11:13
  That is almost comical to me.
• 11:15
  Rupert Isaacson: Almost what?
• 11:16
  To me, comical.
• 11:21
  And
• 11:21
  Lina Hjalmarsson: can you tell us
• 11:22
  Helena Hjalmarsson: a little more about
• 11:23
  Lina Hjalmarsson: that?
• 11:24
  First?
• 11:25
  First, you want,
• 11:26
  Helena Hjalmarsson: you wanna be behind black, black chocolate arms.
• 11:28
  Uhhuh?
• 11:28
  Yes.
• 11:29
  Nine
• 11:30
  Lina Hjalmarsson: first you go, go first.
• 11:32
  You go in the red car.
• 11:33
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm-hmm.
• 11:33
  Lina Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 11:34
  I see
• 11:34
  Helena Hjalmarsson: how incredibly intensely.
• 11:36
  And then my, and then I lost you.
• 11:39
  NY my I see.
• 11:42
  How incredibly intensely my not so rallied mom wants to help me.
• 11:49
  I, yeah, I, I, it's like a little bit, sort of hard to
• 11:53
  understand it, but I think.
• 11:54
  If I'm guessing you're saying I'm very intense and, and,
• 11:58
  and, and wanting to help you
• 12:02
  first.
• 12:03
  Rupert Isaacson: I'm not sure mothers have a choice in that.
• 12:06
  I think, I'm not sure parents have a choice in that.
• 12:08
  I think because
• 12:10
  Lina Hjalmarsson: become a
• 12:10
  Rupert Isaacson: parent, you have an intense desire to your child.
• 12:14
  What can you do?
• 12:14
  Yeah.
• 12:15
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Right.
• 12:16
  Exactly.
• 12:17
  DI . Yeah.
• 12:19
  So I guess you, you're saying that it's it's okay.
• 12:24
  She can see the love
• 12:25
  Rupert Isaacson: makes you feel love.
• 12:26
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 12:27
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:27
  Yeah.
• 12:28
  I follow that.
• 12:29
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 12:30
  Rupert Isaacson: That's lovely.
• 12:31
  I, do you speak to or hear from nature?
• 12:37
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Na.
• 12:37
  I-S-D-D-C-H kind of forgot what you were saying.
• 12:42
  Can you say it in a simple way
• 12:44
  Lina Hjalmarsson: first?
• 12:44
  Your first Mt.
• 12:45
  Cuts in the same uhhuh,
• 12:49
  Helena Hjalmarsson: you're saying you wanna be on this planet?
• 12:50
  Yeah.
• 12:51
  And what else then?
• 12:54
  I, IS see incredible beauty in this.
• 12:58
  On you say on, but in this world.
• 13:00
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:01
  . . Other Dance Planets.
• 13:04
  Am I to realize real life?
• 13:06
  Yes.
• 13:07
  Or other planets?
• 13:09
  Yes.
• 13:09
  Do you have an answer to that?
• 13:13
  S.
• 13:13
  This PL day planet Uhhuh?
• 13:18
  Yes.
• 13:19
  And what do you think you're gonna be doing on this planet?
• 13:22
  What?
• 13:22
  Why are you here?
• 13:25
  Nine I think I'm here to share my real feeling of love.
• 13:31
  . . So you are here.
• 13:32
  Are you taking a break?
• 13:35
  So she says, I think I'm here to share my real feeling of love.
• 13:38
  Very good.
• 13:40
  Rupert Isaacson: And then
• 13:40
  Helena Hjalmarsson: that's more, and I don't know where we're going with it.
• 13:44
  Rupert Isaacson: Well.
• 13:45
  In terms of that sharing, I know that Lina's been writing.
• 13:48
  So would it be all right to read and share some of Lina's writings
• 13:56
  that are sharing that love?
• 13:57
  Helena Hjalmarsson: What do you think would you be up to for that?
• 14:02
  no.
• 14:03
  Still wanna share needing to master the courage.
• 14:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:09
  The courage.
• 14:10
  T, no.
• 14:11
  Two
• 14:13
  . To align with this planet, I still need to wanna share,
• 14:16
  needing to align with this planet.
• 14:19
  Yeah.
• 14:19
  I think that Lina is saying is that, you know, you know, but she, she
• 14:24
  is, she knows all the other stuff.
• 14:26
  You know, she can, you know, she, she has traveled Yes.
• 14:31
  All around, you know?
• 14:33
  But that this is that she feels that the main task right now is to be on this
• 14:38
  planet, to be here to, to not necessarily dabble too much in the, in the mystical.
• 14:47
  That's for her, like, for me being in, in that other space, to have a con,
• 14:52
  that kind of connection that saves me.
• 14:55
  But for Lina, she feels like different, you know?
• 14:59
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 15:00
  Helena Hjalmarsson: So it's so obvious to her, you know what I mean?
• 15:01
  It's so obvious that stuff that, you know, she, she wants to try to be here.
• 15:08
  Is that correct, Lina?
• 15:10
  Is that correct?
• 15:10
  Yeah.
• 15:11
  Okay.
• 15:12
  All right.
• 15:12
  Yeah, you can add something or is
• 15:16
  that good?
• 15:17
  Rupert Isaacson: in that case, would you, okay, when you're ready.
• 15:20
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 15:20
  U the So true.
• 15:23
  Yeah.
• 15:25
  Can I share what Rashid where?
• 15:29
  Tam toothpaste?
• 15:30
  Yeah.
• 15:31
  Yes.
• 15:31
  Can I share with you that what, what, what we were talking to with Ma Mari about?
• 15:38
  Yeah.
• 15:38
  Would that be okay?
• 15:39
  Yes.
• 15:40
  Okay.
• 15:40
  Because you were like, what were, you were kind of very young.
• 15:44
  We met with this, this you, west African, you
• 15:46
  Lina Hjalmarsson: were brush with base arm mm-hmm.
• 15:51
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Shaman.
• 15:52
  Yes.
• 15:52
  And he was saying that, you know, Le Lina, you know, he was doing divinations
• 15:58
  for us for all of us individually.
• 16:00
  And saying that Lina, was just you know, she could read a book and go all
• 16:05
  the way back to when it was written and, you know, the intention before
• 16:09
  it was even written and sort of follow it back wherever, you know, and and
• 16:14
  just kind of, he, he was telling me also that, you know, you, you rash
• 16:20
  Lina Hjalmarsson: she wear.
• 16:20
  Yeah.
• 16:21
  I should just ask, wear yellow to paste.
• 16:23
  Yeah.
• 16:24
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 16:24
  I should just ask as many questions as I possibly can to really try to
• 16:28
  learn as much as I can for as long as, you know, she is willing to share it.
• 16:32
  But I think there maybe there's like different Yes.
• 16:36
  You know, periods of life where now you're trying to get into college, you know,
• 16:41
  you're, you know, you, you know, and, and, and that, that, that he was also
• 16:46
  saying that Lina was initiated too early.
• 16:50
  And so it was too overwhelming, you know, not ready, not not, you know,
• 16:55
  and, and in fact Malema himself had that similar experience when he was little
• 17:00
  and he lived in the village of Dra dra.
• 17:04
  And he saw.
• 17:06
  One of these dwarfs in the bush and his mom said, oh no, you are never gonna
• 17:11
  come with me to pick up wood anymore.
• 17:13
  You know, you because he wasn't ready for it, you know?
• 17:17
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:17
  And
• 17:18
  Helena Hjalmarsson: so le does, Lina wants to try to like really
• 17:20
  be here and not because at night she travels and she can't help it.
• 17:24
  But yeah, take a break, yell to yes.
• 17:29
  But for me, that's the only reason for living is to be
• 17:33
  connected with these things.
• 17:35
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, I suppose that for it, it's so interesting is we always want
• 17:38
  what you haven't got, you know, so people like you and me who are stuck here in the.
• 17:43
  Right.
• 17:46
  Other worldly experiences and alter sex of consciousness and spiritual experiences.
• 17:50
  Yeah.
• 17:51
  You know, we crave them.
• 17:52
  Yeah.
• 17:52
  I suppose, yeah.
• 17:53
  If that's your everyday reality, what you end up craving a
• 17:56
  cheeseburger and a and a Exactly.
• 18:00
  And a, and a and a heavy metal concert, you know?
• 18:02
  Right, exactly.
• 18:05
  And I suppose from a divine point of view, there's really no difference between the
• 18:08
  cheeseburger and the heavy metal concept.
• 18:10
  Lina Hjalmarsson: Exactly.
• 18:11
  Yeah, that's a good point.
• 18:12
  That's a great point.
• 18:13
  Rupert Isaacson: But all that said for those of us that are down, his
• 18:17
  suffering among the cheeseburgers and heavy metal concept Yeah, exactly.
• 18:21
  Which also include things like wars and yeah.
• 18:24
  Attacking our own planet.
• 18:25
  There's clearly a need, I think, for being
• 18:33
  led, I think not just open to, but led by the voices of people who.
• 18:38
  Are aligned with that mm-hmm.
• 18:41
  Spiritual realm that can then report back to us and, you know, basically maybe
• 18:45
  give us some quite clear instructions.
• 18:46
  Okay.
• 18:47
  When she comes, when she comes back I would love to hear perhaps
• 18:51
  what her instructions to we, the new typical people sort of
• 18:55
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 18:56
  Rupert Isaacson: In the driving seat of the car as least you think we are.
• 19:00
  Yeah.
• 19:00
  Yeah.
• 19:01
  What, what, what her advice for us is, but also while she's out of the room, do
• 19:05
  you think she would mind if you read and shared some of what she's been writing?
• 19:10
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Not at all.
• 19:11
  Rupert Isaacson: She would, would you just share with us as, as it comes,
• 19:14
  what you think is the best stuff?
• 19:18
  Helena Hjalmarsson: So Lina, Lina was talking about the, you know, her, the
• 19:22
  idea that she's here to learn how to love.
• 19:25
  Right.
• 19:27
  And I think so this is something about, about that and it's like a
• 19:33
  little poem a love meaning to burst.
• 19:37
  I still think a love meaning to burst is a love, meaning to
• 19:40
  level with all that is real.
• 19:44
  I think a love meaning to burst is a love, meaning to test our insensitive souls.
• 19:50
  I think a love meaning to burst is alive and meaning to ind and
• 19:55
  react and rearrange and resolve.
• 20:01
  Rupert Isaacson: Can you read that again?
• 20:03
  Sure.
• 20:03
  Yeah.
• 20:04
  That burst hearing twice.
• 20:06
  And this, can you slow write down because.
• 20:09
  There was so much amazing meeting there.
• 20:11
  I was like, yeah.
• 20:15
  And then you went on to the next time.
• 20:17
  Say it again now.
• 20:17
  Off speed, please.
• 20:20
  Helena Hjalmarsson: And, and actually, I think that it sort of relates to
• 20:22
  what she was trying to say right now in a, it's like, we should
• 20:27
  Rupert Isaacson: absolutely
• 20:28
  Helena Hjalmarsson: nibbling and dabbling with things here, you know?
• 20:31
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
• 20:33
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I still think a love meaning to burst is a love,
• 20:36
  meaning to level with all that is real.
• 20:40
  I think a love meaning to burst is a love, meaning to test our insensitive souls.
• 20:48
  I think a love meaning to burst is alive and meaning to in differ and
• 20:55
  react and rearrange and resolve.
• 21:01
  Rupert Isaacson: And resolve
• 21:02
  Helena Hjalmarsson: mm-hmm.
• 21:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Bursting to resolve.
• 21:04
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm-hmm.
• 21:08
  Rupert Isaacson: Do you know what the context of that
• 21:09
  poem was when she wrote it?
• 21:13
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I don't quite remember.
• 21:14
  That's a good question.
• 21:17
  Rupert Isaacson: And is that a recent one?
• 21:20
  Helena Hjalmarsson: There's another one that's kind of funny.
• 21:21
  Should I read it?
• 21:22
  Oh yeah,
• 21:22
  Rupert Isaacson: please.
• 21:23
  Yeah.
• 21:24
  Helena Hjalmarsson: And I know very well this context 'cause I was going nuts.
• 21:28
  So this is, it's an unti untitled poem holding myself out of a hole.
• 21:35
  I erase my own crazy thoughts in the hope that I will be able to see myself soaked
• 21:43
  in seeing the, seeing soaked in a less sorry, in a less harsh world, salvaged by
• 21:52
  the wary tones of my always insane mother.
• 22:01
  Isn't that cool?
• 22:02
  That's
• 22:02
  Rupert Isaacson: beautiful.
• 22:04
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I think
• 22:04
  Rupert Isaacson: Soaked and sound.
• 22:05
  Yeah.
• 22:06
  Yeah.
• 22:06
  Okay.
• 22:06
  One more time.
• 22:07
  You got these bare repetition, please.
• 22:10
  Yeah.
• 22:11
  Okay.
• 22:11
  Read it again and read it.
• 22:12
  Even slower.
• 22:15
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Untitled.
• 22:17
  Holding myself out of a hole.
• 22:20
  I raised
• 22:21
  Rupert Isaacson: myself out of a hole.
• 22:22
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 22:22
  And this is like while ago, and we had some crazy scenes, some really nutty,
• 22:27
  like everybody was falling apart.
• 22:30
  And, and, and Lina Not, not, not at least Lina.
• 22:34
  And me too.
• 22:35
  Holding myself out of a hole.
• 22:38
  I raised my own crazy thoughts.
• 22:41
  Rupert Isaacson: I erase my own crazy thoughts.
• 22:43
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 22:43
  I raise, I think I raise,
• 22:45
  Rupert Isaacson: I raise them.
• 22:46
  Yeah.
• 22:46
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 22:47
  I apprise them, pulling
• 22:48
  Rupert Isaacson: myself out of the hole.
• 22:49
  I raise my own crazy.
• 22:51
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 22:51
  Yeah.
• 22:52
  That was what it was.
• 22:53
  A-R-A-I-S-E.
• 22:55
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 22:57
  Okay.
• 22:57
  Go on.
• 22:58
  Helena Hjalmarsson: In the hope that I will be able to see myself soaked
• 23:03
  in the seeing, the seeing soaked in a less harsh world salvaged by the
• 23:11
  wary tones of my always insane mother.
• 23:19
  Rupert Isaacson: It's so beautiful.
• 23:20
  And knowing you as I know you, I mean, I, I know that one of your great,
• 23:29
  I mean it as the highest of compliments.
• 23:31
  Yeah.
• 23:31
  I've seen you pushed to the wall
• 23:34
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Right.
• 23:34
  Rupert Isaacson: On so many occasions.
• 23:36
  So for those listeners who are not autism parents the experience.
• 23:44
  There's a lot of talk quite rightly about how difficult and traumatic
• 23:48
  it is for the children and the people who experience the condition.
• 23:51
  But what is not talked about and probably should be talked about is the
• 23:56
  trauma that we go through as parents.
• 24:00
  Trying blind with, you know, it's like you put, they put a blindfold
• 24:06
  on you, tie your arm behind your back and now tell you to Yeah.
• 24:11
  Climb Everest while liberating a city.
• 24:15
  Yeah.
• 24:15
  Using, using an old Yeah.
• 24:20
  Sausage, you know?
• 24:22
  Right.
• 24:22
  Exactly.
• 24:25
  And we, we've got no choice.
• 24:27
  We kind of go, oh, okay.
• 24:30
  Exactly.
• 24:31
  And little by little we figure out, but it does send us a bit nuts.
• 24:33
  But, but then it goes, that nuttiness mm-hmm.
• 24:37
  Is what then allows one to.
• 24:39
  Break wide open.
• 24:41
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 24:41
  Rupert Isaacson: You know, people, the cliches see outside the box.
• 24:44
  Yeah.
• 24:44
  But you know, you can't see outside the box until you get, God puts
• 24:50
  a boot to your ass and kicks you out there and then Right.
• 24:54
  You're like, well, I went back in the box please.
• 24:56
  And I like, well, no, sorry.
• 24:58
  Then you look around and go, well, it is, it is actually quite interesting out here.
• 25:02
  That's right.
• 25:02
  Yeah.
• 25:03
  But I've really seen you suffer and never give up and, and always be
• 25:09
  very intentional about the road to
• 25:20
  a parallel road mm-hmm.
• 25:23
  Of functionality and inspiration at the same time.
• 25:27
  So not saying, I don't want you to change me, I don't want
• 25:30
  you to stop being who you are.
• 25:31
  And at the same time, I, I have to give you the tools to survive in this world.
• 25:36
  And that tightrope
• 25:40
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 25:40
  Rupert Isaacson: Is not an easy one.
• 25:42
  So that poem, what I love about it mm-hmm.
• 25:45
  Is that it really shows that you are seen.
• 25:50
  Yeah.
• 25:51
  Because you, I, I started this podcast saying, you know, that you are one
• 25:55
  of my heroes and you really are.
• 25:57
  And at the same time, it sounds like your lean is too.
• 26:02
  And I love that because particularly when someone isn't verbal, I mean, the
• 26:09
  leaner I'm seeing today is extraordinary.
• 26:11
  I've, I've, here's another thing for the listeners and viewers.
• 26:15
  Yeah.
• 26:15
  I have met Lina quite a few times and I have never, ever, ever
• 26:18
  had this interaction with her.
• 26:20
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Right.
• 26:20
  Right.
• 26:21
  I've never had
• 26:21
  Rupert Isaacson: a conversation.
• 26:22
  I've never had this back and forth out it, it's, you know, yeah.
• 26:26
  Part of me is trying not to jump out of my chair Yeah.
• 26:30
  Noises, because, you know, but another part of me is my mind is blown.
• 26:35
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 26:36
  Rupert Isaacson: But HeLina, you've obviously
• 26:43
  helped bring her here and, and this is just beautiful.
• 26:47
  So to read a poem in which you ease the value of your craziness as to how it's a
• 26:53
  lifesaver, your craziness as a lifesaver is if you're not a bit crazy, you don't
• 26:58
  see how to make the raft out of Yeah.
• 27:01
  Old diapers and that's right.
• 27:03
  You know what I mean?
• 27:04
  And, and a thrown away toothbrush and transform that into a space shuttle,
• 27:10
  you know, while never sleeping.
• 27:13
  And, you know.
• 27:17
  I, I, I love, I love that.
• 27:18
  Can you, can you share another one with us, please?
• 27:20
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Sure.
• 27:20
  Certainly.
• 27:22
  Rupert Isaacson: Such a treat.
• 27:23
  Helena Hjalmarsson: This is not a poem.
• 27:25
  This is more like, okay, well, this, yeah.
• 27:27
  You want poem or sort of like,
• 27:29
  Rupert Isaacson: I want anything.
• 27:30
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
• 27:32
  MS.
• 27:32
  Per here is, she's talking about telepathy and this is another poem.
• 27:38
  It's called Incisions, and the other one is called soaring.
• 27:43
  And here she's talking about the paradox of autism.
• 27:46
  That might be interesting.
• 27:48
  Do you wanna hear?
• 27:48
  I want all
• 27:49
  Rupert Isaacson: of it.
• 27:49
  All, all of the above, please.
• 27:51
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
• 27:52
  So then I'm gonna, okay, we'll start, we'll continue with the poems then in
• 27:57
  sessions, hollering at the moon, hollering at the sun, hollering at the earth.
• 28:04
  I align with all, I align with everything.
• 28:08
  I am seeing my life transform.
• 28:11
  I'm seeing all the suffering that I have.
• 28:13
  So sorry.
• 28:14
  I'm seeing all the suffering I have endured, eclipsing into a
• 28:18
  tentative incision of sawdust and sun in mountains and ocean is my
• 28:24
  transformation in real yearning and real gestations is my salvation.
• 28:32
  Rupert Isaacson: Whew.
• 28:37
  I guess the power of suffering.
• 28:39
  Yeah.
• 28:39
  The value of suffering.
• 28:41
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Right.
• 28:42
  Rupert Isaacson: More, more.
• 28:43
  Keep going.
• 28:44
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 28:45
  I'm soaring in real life.
• 28:47
  I'm a soaring eagle.
• 28:49
  Need I always indicate the soaring truth Is my life a tentative,
• 28:54
  talking tedious, ageless havoc?
• 28:58
  All I am is a loving eagle without wings, I am ahead of pestering people.
• 29:04
  I am ahead of my ignorance.
• 29:06
  I am ahead of seeing yearnings without end.
• 29:12
  Rupert Isaacson: I am ahead of seeing yearnings Without end, I
• 29:16
  wouldn't mind being ahead of that.
• 29:17
  Helena Hjalmarsson: No, me neither.
• 29:20
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, go on.
• 29:22
  Helena Hjalmarsson: So that was a little bit of that and then
• 29:24
  Solina was talking about paradox of autism or she's talking about Yes.
• 29:28
  Rupert Isaacson: Paradox of autism.
• 29:29
  Yeah, yeah, let's
• 29:30
  Helena Hjalmarsson: do that.
• 29:32
  Lina.
• 29:34
  Helene.
• 29:36
  Okay.
• 29:37
  I see autism as the most profound inspiration that has ever existed.
• 29:43
  It is also the most profound challenge.
• 29:46
  I think it's so hard and I, I just think that it's so important that she's
• 29:49
  writing about this because a lot of us are either, we just see the, you know,
• 29:53
  a lot of people see just the beauty and it's all about inclusion or whatever, and
• 29:57
  then the others see just the sort of the medical issues and, you know, all that
• 30:01
  Rupert Isaacson: shit.
• 30:01
  And the challenges.
• 30:02
  The very real challenges.
• 30:02
  Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 30:03
  Helena Hjalmarsson: exactly.
• 30:03
  And, but there's no integration.
• 30:06
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
• 30:06
  And
• 30:06
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I think that Lina, that's, that's why I feel like
• 30:09
  her, the book that she's writing my life on the planet, that that
• 30:12
  is really important because she's talking about all of it, you know?
• 30:16
  Yeah.
• 30:16
  Both the challenges and the bliss, you know?
• 30:18
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
• 30:19
  As you know, if you followed any of my work, I'm an autism dad and we have
• 30:25
  a whole career before this podcast in helping people with neurodivergence,
• 30:32
  either who are professionals in the field.
• 30:34
  Are you a therapist?
• 30:35
  Are you a caregiver?
• 30:37
  Are you a parent?
• 30:38
  Or are you somebody with neurodivergence?
• 30:42
  When my son, Rowan, was diagnosed with autism in 2004,
• 30:47
  I really didn't know what to do.
• 30:49
  So I reached out for mentorship, and I found it through an amazing adult
• 30:54
  autistic woman who's very famous, Dr.
• 30:57
  Temple Grandin.
• 30:58
  And she told me what to do.
• 31:00
  And it's been working so amazingly for the last 20 years.
• 31:04
  That not only is my son basically independent, but we've helped
• 31:09
  countless, countless thousands of others reach the same goal.
• 31:13
  Working in schools, working at home, working in therapy settings.
• 31:18
  If you would like to learn this cutting edge, neuroscience backed
• 31:23
  approach, it's called Movement Method.
• 31:25
  You can learn it online, you can learn it very, very simply.
• 31:29
  It's almost laughably simple.
• 31:32
  The important thing is to begin.
• 31:36
  Let yourself be mentored as I was by Dr.
• 31:39
  Grandin and see what results can follow.
• 31:43
  Go to this website, newtrailslearning.
• 31:48
  com Sign up as a gold member.
• 31:51
  Take the online movement method course.
• 31:55
  It's in 40 countries.
• 31:57
  Let us know how it goes for you.
• 31:59
  We really want to know.
• 32:00
  We really want to help people like me, people like you, out there
• 32:04
  live their best life, to live free, ride free, see what happens.
• 32:09
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Anyway, I see all this mess, the most profound
• 32:11
  inspiration that has ever existed.
• 32:13
  It is also the most profound challenge.
• 32:15
  I think it's so hard for people to incorporate the paradox of autism.
• 32:20
  Is autism the love for people's soul, or is it the excruciating challenge?
• 32:26
  For the individual and his or her family?
• 32:28
  I think it's both.
• 32:30
  I think that life with someone on the severe end of the spectrum is a life full
• 32:34
  of suffering and a life full of bliss.
• 32:36
  In my own experience as an individual with very severe autism,
• 32:40
  I see the suffering being a lot stronger than the bliss in my life.
• 32:44
  I also have earnings for a life without autism.
• 32:48
  I see how autism my OCD and anxiety destroys so much for me.
• 32:54
  If I was free of what I if, if I was free of that, I wouldn't have autism.
• 33:02
  Rupert Isaacson: Can you read that again?
• 33:04
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Totally.
• 33:05
  Rupert Isaacson: Because there's some questions I'd like to pick up on that.
• 33:09
  Yeah.
• 33:10
  I could ask.
• 33:11
  Okay.
• 33:12
  We get paper?
• 33:13
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm-hmm.
• 33:14
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 33:15
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Cool.
• 33:15
  Rupert Isaacson: Alright.
• 33:16
  Pick off again, please.
• 33:17
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah, SeLina.
• 33:19
  So we're reading about that stuff, about paradox of autism and so.
• 33:23
  I'm just gonna reread it.
• 33:25
  I see autism as the most profound inspiration that has ever existed.
• 33:29
  It is also the most profound challenge.
• 33:32
  I think it's so hard for people to incorporate corporate.
• 33:36
  The paradox of autism.
• 33:38
  Is autism, the love for people's soul, or is it the most excruciating challenge
• 33:42
  for the individual and his or her family?
• 33:45
  I think it's both.
• 33:46
  I think that life with someone on the severe end of the spectrum is a life full
• 33:50
  of suffering and a life full of bliss.
• 33:53
  In my own experience as an individual with very severe autism,
• 33:57
  I see the suffering being a lot stronger than the bliss in my life.
• 34:01
  I also have yearnings for a life without autism.
• 34:05
  I see how autism by OCD and anxiety destroys so much for me.
• 34:11
  If I was free of that, I wouldn't have autism.
• 34:15
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay,
• 34:17
  Helena Hjalmarsson: so
• 34:19
  Rupert Isaacson: I've got three questions.
• 34:23
  Helena Hjalmarsson: You ready?
• 34:24
  Yes.
• 34:25
  Rupert Isaacson: All right.
• 34:30
  . You talk about the bliss from the inside.
• 34:34
  As an autistic person, what is the bliss of autism?
• 34:41
  Helena Hjalmarsson: It, SO, then G.
• 34:46
  Okay.
• 34:46
  Okay.
• 34:47
  It's a ongoingly.
• 34:49
  Incredible seeing and alignment with one's soul.
• 34:56
  Can you say that in simple terms, Lynn?
• 34:58
  Yes.
• 34:59
  Direct As direct as you can get.
• 35:01
  It's hard for not to be like run direct,
• 35:03
  Rupert Isaacson: but we have time.
• 35:04
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah, so try to go, go straight to a little bit.
• 35:09
  Nine in my life I hollow out to the universe the love I feel.
• 35:13
  Are you saying that you just feel that love so strong it almost
• 35:16
  more makes you wanna shout?
• 35:18
  Is that what you're saying?
• 35:19
  Okay.
• 35:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:20
  So that, that love is very strong.
• 35:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 35:25
  Helena Hjalmarsson: And, and that, that, yeah, in many situations
• 35:29
  that that is always there inside no matter what craziness is
• 35:33
  happening, that it's always there.
• 35:35
  Does that
• 35:38
  somewhere, you know, in there.
• 35:42
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 35:42
  I have a second question.
• 35:47
  That's the bliss.
• 35:49
  This being able to sort of exist in and dance in this universal love that is life.
• 35:59
  Okay.
• 36:00
  Now you also talk about the suffering.
• 36:04
  How can we suffer less?
• 36:06
  Lina?
• 36:20
  . Helena Hjalmarsson: TD I think I'm suffering now le less now in
• 36:25
  my life that I am anticipating.
• 36:31
  Create THDN.
• 36:35
  She's suffering less now because she can anticipate the
• 36:38
  moments of calm and create them.
• 36:42
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 36:43
  How do you create them?
• 36:44
  Yeah.
• 36:46
  Helena Hjalmarsson: YISD.
• 36:49
  See so many reasons to be happy.
• 36:54
  I I, C, so MUCH much.
• 37:00
  Love.
• 37:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Here is another question.
• 37:03
  If you are your mother.
• 37:05
  If you are the parent of a person like yourself, how can your mother suffer less?
• 37:14
  How can somebody in that position as guardian and caretaker, but also who
• 37:21
  doesn't want to get in the way and wants to nurture how, how, how could
• 37:28
  we, the autism parents suffer less.
• 37:32
  Helena Hjalmarsson: My T-H-I-N-K, I think nan?
• 37:38
  No.
• 37:38
  I think my soul mom is not suffering now.
• 37:44
  But if I did, what would you tell me?
• 37:47
  Tell me.
• 37:48
  Na ITHI , I think I see real soul in my aligned mom.
• 37:55
  Yes.
• 37:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:56
  Yes.
• 37:56
  I, I am doing pretty well, but right now, but you have seen me in
• 38:02
  many different places and you know, we have both gone totally nuts.
• 38:06
  So what would you say to some somebody, or what did you say to me?
• 38:09
  I don't remember when I was totally tripping.
• 38:11
  And what, what, you know, or to, to parents who feel like they just can't
• 38:19
  take it and they're going, they go, they're going crazy with everything.
• 38:22
  What, what should be done, what should be told, what can
• 38:26
  help them us when we are first
• 38:28
  Nine h-D-L-D-N-G.
• 38:31
  Okay.
• 38:32
  So I think Hena needing to shout and be pissed is a lovely thing.
• 38:37
  So would you, would you say that to other parents too?
• 38:41
  That they should be, they should shout and let their emotions out?
• 38:46
  Yes.
• 38:46
  Uhhuh?
• 38:48
  Yeah.
• 38:48
  You see, I was just reading, I'm reading male dos autobiography and he's talking
• 38:53
  about grief and how the villagers, you know, when they're grieving.
• 38:57
  His grandfather died and everybody was grieving and
• 39:00
  they took three days to do it.
• 39:01
  And, you know, shouting and screaming and running away sometimes
• 39:06
  and, and then stopping, you know.
• 39:08
  Because when they grieved overtook them and they ran down the, the road
• 39:12
  and, and then, you know, at some point, and they had people around them,
• 39:16
  the ones who grieved the most, had people who watched them to help them.
• 39:20
  Not to be totally overcome, but that whole idea that in the Western society,
• 39:25
  we just always put a lock on our emotion.
• 39:28
  We just like, we get passive aggressive.
• 39:30
  You know, we, you know, we, we, we just try to control ourselves to every degree.
• 39:35
  You know, like that is some kind of like incredible virtue.
• 39:38
  You know, first blue, first and blue instead of sometimes just
• 39:42
  if you have excruciating f blue
• 39:47
  Lina Hjalmarsson: ber kra, would you Yes.
• 39:47
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Go get that?
• 39:48
  Lina Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 39:49
  Helena Hjalmarsson: You can do it.
• 39:50
  You know what I mean?
• 39:51
  So, yeah, I think you know, yes.
• 39:53
  I was also talking to Elsa about this, that, you know,
• 39:56
  Rupert Isaacson: Elsa being your other daughter
• 39:58
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 39:59
  That some Lina's younger sister and um mm-hmm.
• 40:02
  Sometimes, you know, she, well, we were all like, basically, basically
• 40:10
  feel, it was a, it was a mad house.
• 40:12
  Mm.
• 40:13
  Then the beauty and the love and the, you know, sense of connection and peace
• 40:20
  when everybody had tried to express what they are feeling, the despair, you know?
• 40:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
• 40:25
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Fully, and feeling that, that everybody accepts, you know,
• 40:31
  what they are experiencing, you know?
• 40:33
  That I think there's something to that.
• 40:37
  I think that, that helps us go fresh into the next day, you know?
• 40:42
  And I think that that's something in the Western society, we
• 40:45
  don't know how to do that.
• 40:46
  We just don't.
• 40:47
  Rupert Isaacson: If you made it this far into the podcast, then I'm
• 40:51
  guessing you're somebody that, like me, loves to read books about not
• 40:56
  just how people have achieved self actualization, but particularly
• 40:59
  about the relationship with nature.
• 41:04
  Spirituality, life, the universe, and everything.
• 41:08
  And I'd like to draw your attention to my books.
• 41:11
  If you would like to read the story of how we even arrived here, perhaps
• 41:15
  you'd like to check out the two New York Times bestsellers, The Horseboy
• 41:20
  and The Long Ride Home, and come on an adventure with us and see what engendered,
• 41:25
  what started Live Free Ride Free.
• 41:28
  And before we go back to the podcast, also check out The Healing
• 41:31
  Land, which tells the story of.
• 41:35
  My years spent in the Kalahari with the Sun, Bushmen, hunter gatherer people
• 41:40
  there, and all that they taught me, and mentored me in, and all that I learned.
• 41:44
  Come on that adventure with me.
• 41:46
  Well, sure, because I think, I think there's two things.
• 41:47
  One is that that takes tribe, that takes community, right?
• 41:51
  Yeah.
• 41:51
  We're talking about, you know, that's true.
• 41:52
  Someone is there to anybody that, not to be too overcome by the grief, or
• 41:56
  that requires those people to exist and to be there and to be available.
• 42:00
  Right.
• 42:00
  We.
• 42:01
  We in our society do no longer live in that tribal way.
• 42:04
  Right.
• 42:04
  And, you know, it's seen as a sign of weakness to reach out for help.
• 42:08
  But I think those of us who are autism parents know that if we don't
• 42:12
  have that kind of community, yeah.
• 42:13
  We can go on.
• 42:14
  And that's why how people like you and I have found each other and yeah.
• 42:18
  That we've created that community, I think you could say, even when we
• 42:20
  are long distance from each other.
• 42:22
  Right.
• 42:24
  There is a question, a very practical question that comes to mind.
• 42:27
  If Leer say, feels that it's a beautiful thing if you express your craziness
• 42:33
  and your grief and your despair and your overwhelm, there is of course
• 42:37
  when an autistic child is very young, a fear that that might freak 'em out
• 42:42
  and scare them and overwhelm them.
• 42:46
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 42:47
  How
• 42:47
  Rupert Isaacson: does one, as an autism parent tread that line?
• 42:51
  Yeah, having to just sort of constantly contain and control yourself because
• 42:56
  when, when someone is very, very young, you know, how do we do that?
• 43:00
  How, how could we express those big, raw emotions without,
• 43:04
  without traumatizing the child?
• 43:06
  I'd like to have thoughts on that.
• 43:08
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 43:09
  I mean, I, I think that there's also instinct involved in this.
• 43:12
  I mean, you, you wouldn't you know, shout at the a a little child.
• 43:18
  It, it's just something no, not shout
• 43:20
  Rupert Isaacson: at, but you might, you know, if, if, if you are
• 43:23
  overwhelming, your grief makes you Yeah.
• 43:26
  Shout at the planet or God or whatever, you know, how, how, how do you
• 43:29
  express that Will without Yeah, yeah,
• 43:34
  Helena Hjalmarsson: yeah.
• 43:34
  I mean, I think it's, it's a little different, you know, you
• 43:38
  can almost instinctively feel you know, even, even when Lina was like
• 43:44
  a young teenager, it wasn't really.
• 43:48
  Lina Hjalmarsson: First blue, first,
• 43:49
  Helena Hjalmarsson: first of blue cucumber with you.
• 43:53
  Yeah.
• 43:53
  You can go and get the cucumber and then bring it back.
• 43:55
  Yeah.
• 43:56
  Yeah, totally.
• 43:57
  It's not the same thing as when she's like, closer to, you know,
• 44:01
  Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
• 44:02
  20
• 44:02
  Helena Hjalmarsson: and, and, and be beyond.
• 44:04
  You know, it's really now that more than anything, like, you know, this
• 44:08
  last bout of mycoplasma well was, you know, now she's 21 and a half, and
• 44:14
  there's a new bout of mycoplasma and it comes with a lot of, of, of, of crazy
• 44:19
  OCD and a lots of acting out and loss of control and, you know, anxiety.
• 44:24
  It's just really brutal.
• 44:25
  OCD.
• 44:27
  And so then, you know, this was just a, a time when, you know, I really
• 44:33
  put the law down in a way that I have never done and not eloquently.
• 44:38
  But very, very decisively.
• 44:41
  And I felt actually that Lina it really, really helped Lina and I, you
• 44:47
  know, it, it just calmed her down.
• 44:50
  Rupert Isaacson: By that say she say she was ready for that,
• 44:53
  Helena Hjalmarsson: she was ready.
• 44:54
  She was so ready to basically see me not as that one that's always helping her,
• 45:01
  but also as, as a human being, you know?
• 45:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 45:04
  Helena Hjalmarsson: She and I have been talking a lot about like
• 45:07
  that, you know, at certain point she complained or you just talk
• 45:10
  about yourself and your own needs.
• 45:11
  Now, suddenly all the time, I'm tired of it.
• 45:17
  Whatcha
• 45:17
  Rupert Isaacson: allowed
• 45:20
  Helena Hjalmarsson: make up for, don't you think?
• 45:24
  Because I've been nagging about that all, all the time and, you know, but I felt
• 45:29
  that I absolutely, this is, this is, it is now, or, or this is not gonna work.
• 45:33
  This ship is gonna sink.
• 45:35
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 45:36
  Helena Hjalmarsson: And, and, and actually now after that is, is we've
• 45:39
  had such beautiful time and I feel like there's just more equality
• 45:44
  between us and she's really taking me into account, you know, much more.
• 45:48
  And, and I don't know.
• 45:50
  It's just, I feel, I feel good because, eh, being able to, you know,
• 45:54
  you know how it's the, the anxiety and the rage comes from feeling
• 45:59
  like you cannot, you are helpless.
• 46:01
  You can't, you cannot actually push against the situation
• 46:07
  or this person or whatever.
• 46:08
  But if you feel that you have the right, then it's very calming.
• 46:13
  You know?
• 46:13
  It's, it's just really quite different.
• 46:16
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
• 46:17
  Mm-hmm.
• 46:17
  The right to express.
• 46:18
  Yeah.
• 46:19
  That pain.
• 46:20
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 46:20
  Yeah.
• 46:20
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 46:21
  Helena Hjalmarsson: But also, like a kid on the spectrum three or four or
• 46:24
  five, it's a very different feeling.
• 46:27
  Yeah.
• 46:28
  You don't want, you don't feel anger.
• 46:29
  You, you just feel like, what is happening to my child?
• 46:31
  Stress.
• 46:31
  Yeah.
• 46:32
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 46:32
  Helena Hjalmarsson: And when they're 13, you know, now you're feeling
• 46:35
  like, no, you can't fucking hit me.
• 46:39
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
• 46:42
  Helena Hjalmarsson: So it's different and it's different, you know.
• 46:46
  Rupert Isaacson: Can you tell us, can you tell us a bit about you?
• 46:48
  You just referred to mycoplasma.
• 46:51
  Can you not, a lot of people will not know what that is and
• 46:54
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Oh, yeah.
• 46:55
  Rupert Isaacson: Behavior.
• 46:56
  Can you tell us a bit about 1, 2, 3 on it?
• 46:58
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Totally.
• 46:59
  Totally.
• 46:59
  It's, it's an autoimmune disorder.
• 47:02
  There's death, there's pandas you know, that comes from strep, right.
• 47:06
  And pandas
• 47:07
  Rupert Isaacson: and pans, which is the type of streptococcal infection Exactly.
• 47:11
  That can hit the brain.
• 47:12
  And Exactly.
• 47:13
  People with autism seem to be particularly prone to it for Exactly.
• 47:17
  We dunno, there you go.
• 47:18
  And often get it around adolescents and, and it can turn people into effectively
• 47:22
  almost, well violent, let's say.
• 47:25
  Yeah.
• 47:26
  But it can be treated if they catch it.
• 47:28
  So that's pandas and pans for those.
• 47:31
  Yeah.
• 47:32
  You and all listeners who, dunno what it is.
• 47:33
  If you have an autistic kid and, and they're approaching adolescents, do
• 47:36
  get 'em checked out for pans and pans.
• 47:37
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Totally.
• 47:38
  Okay.
• 47:38
  But micro plasma,
• 47:40
  Rupert Isaacson: talk to us about and,
• 47:41
  Helena Hjalmarsson: and ly also.
• 47:42
  Yeah.
• 47:42
  Rupert Isaacson: And Lyme.
• 47:43
  Okay.
• 47:45
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I think that, and, and you should have somebody
• 47:47
  who knows how to test Lyme.
• 47:49
  Okay.
• 47:50
  It's you know, you can test Lyme until you're blue in the face and
• 47:53
  you see nothing until you go to somebody who's actually able to how do
• 47:58
  Rupert Isaacson: you, how do you identify that person?
• 48:00
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I think that very often naturopaths actually have a
• 48:04
  better handle on what blood tests to order than, for instance, a regular
• 48:09
  medical doctor, I have to say.
• 48:10
  Yeah.
• 48:11
  Then of course, a good medical, medical doctor, I'm not saying
• 48:14
  that, but, you know, definitely more, more naturopaths are, are,
• 48:17
  they're better, better able to order.
• 48:21
  Much more subtle and you know, extensive blood test than,
• 48:26
  than than most medical doctors.
• 48:27
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 48:28
  And then talk to us about mycoplasma.
• 48:29
  What is it?
• 48:30
  Helena Hjalmarsson: So that is actually the pan actually.
• 48:32
  That is, that is the pan.
• 48:33
  Okay.
• 48:34
  Rupert Isaacson: That is,
• 48:34
  Helena Hjalmarsson: and that is bacteria.
• 48:36
  And everybody has mycoplasma.
• 48:38
  It's a very small bacteria and it does not have a cell wall.
• 48:41
  So it can sit latent in somebody's system for years and then suddenly flare up.
• 48:48
  Yeah.
• 48:49
  You know, suddenly there's too high of a count, you know?
• 48:53
  And they're super tricky and they can create OCD like crazy.
• 48:56
  First time Lalina had mycoplasma.
• 48:58
  She all she said, and I, you know, all she said was red and black.
• 49:03
  Red and black all night long with increasing intensity.
• 49:06
  It was like the worst torture.
• 49:08
  You know how in prison, you know, people get these drops of water on their head.
• 49:13
  This was like the same thing like that, you know, but just red and black, red
• 49:17
  and black, red and like increasing.
• 49:19
  It's just, it's just insane.
• 49:22
  I try to then introduce green, you know, and just little by little.
• 49:28
  But then, then you know, we did all kinds of things including very
• 49:32
  strict keto diet to bring down, to not feed the bacteria at all.
• 49:37
  At that microplasma was so incredibly intense that we had
• 49:40
  to do antibiotics for a while.
• 49:43
  When she was 13.
• 49:44
  But now this time around we did antibiotics because she had Lyme also
• 49:49
  you know, kids on the spectrum and young adults on the spectrum, they always get
• 49:53
  everything, particularly the autoimmune.
• 49:56
  Rupert Isaacson: There seems to be.
• 49:57
  Yeah.
• 49:57
  There seems to be a deficiency somewhere in the gut bacteria that
• 50:00
  just doesn't lets these things in.
• 50:02
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 50:03
  And or, you know, a toxic overload, whatever you wanna Yeah, yeah,
• 50:06
  Rupert Isaacson: yeah, yeah.
• 50:07
  But,
• 50:07
  Helena Hjalmarsson: but so now we did we did antibiotic get to address
• 50:10
  the Lyme, but for the mycoplasma, now we are working with the naturopath.
• 50:14
  His name is Dr.
• 50:15
  Engles.
• 50:15
  He's incredible.
• 50:18
  Rupert Isaacson: Dr.
• 50:18
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Engles?
• 50:18
  Engles.
• 50:18
  Yeah.
• 50:19
  Engles.
• 50:19
  Rupert Isaacson: Where's he based?
• 50:20
  Helena Hjalmarsson: He's in California.
• 50:22
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 50:22
  Yeah.
• 50:23
  Maybe I could have him on the show.
• 50:25
  Helena Hjalmarsson: He's incredible.
• 50:26
  You should.
• 50:26
  He knows a lot about autism, autism.
• 50:29
  Another incredible woman, her name is Mary Coyle and she's the home of toxicologist.
• 50:35
  We worked with her for many years because Lina had seizures and it was because of
• 50:40
  all the, so she helped us detox in a soft and gentle way, not a harsh way, you know?
• 50:46
  So then at some point the seizures stopped.
• 50:50
  So, and she what did, what did
• 50:51
  Rupert Isaacson: the naturopath attribute the seizures to
• 50:54
  Helena Hjalmarsson: the naturopath?
• 50:54
  He doesn't, he didn't work with seizures because that was, we worked with Mary, but
• 50:58
  Rupert Isaacson: Mary Coyle, what, what did she what To the toxicology,
• 51:01
  what did she attribute seizures to?
• 51:02
  Toxic overload.
• 51:04
  Any, but toxic is a, is a wide term.
• 51:06
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 51:08
  Well, in, in Lina's case you know, we have found that she has an overload of mercury
• 51:15
  and aluminum and I, I don't, I don't.
• 51:19
  Those are the main thing.
• 51:20
  The aluminum actually is, is the biggest culprit for Lina.
• 51:23
  And,
• 51:25
  Rupert Isaacson: and which of course kills brain cells like crazy if it
• 51:28
  gets, crosses the blood-brain barrier.
• 51:31
  What, what what do you think got all that aluminum into her system?
• 51:37
  Helena Hjalmarsson: I think that it is, I think that it is kind of
• 51:41
  like a lot of different factors.
• 51:44
  And I think that the triggering factor was her second MMR vaccine.
• 51:49
  Okay.
• 51:51
  And it could be also the DBT vaccines.
• 51:54
  You know, we, you, you know, we can't know for sure, but with the MMR vaccine
• 51:58
  the second time she took it at three and a half, she had her first seizure
• 52:02
  right after she lost all of her speech.
• 52:05
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 52:06
  Helena Hjalmarsson: So, you know, you know, and it's not that I'm against
• 52:09
  vaccines, but I do think we should just check out and see what's in them.
• 52:13
  We shouldn't preserve them with toxins that we then inoculate young, young people
• 52:18
  with who have not yet a a mature immune system that can cope with these things.
• 52:25
  Right.
• 52:26
  And I, I think so.
• 52:27
  I think that,
• 52:29
  Rupert Isaacson: yes, maybe, maybe to have safer, safer
• 52:32
  Helena Hjalmarsson: products
• 52:32
  Rupert Isaacson: or with a bit more oversight.
• 52:34
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 52:35
  With, with a lot of oversight.
• 52:36
  Maybe more oversight than any other medications.
• 52:38
  I mean, this is our kids we're talking about.
• 52:41
  Rupert Isaacson: One would what we can, we can pray for that,
• 52:44
  for that universe to happen.
• 52:46
  Alright.
• 52:48
  Okay.
• 52:48
  I have a, another question for Lina.
• 52:51
  Sure.
• 52:51
  Lina.
• 52:52
  When at the end of, of that last text that you read me, she said,
• 52:58
  if I didn't have the OCD, I seem to remember that's what she said.
• 53:03
  Then I wouldn't have the autism.
• 53:04
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Exactly.
• 53:05
  Yeah.
• 53:05
  I knew we were gonna ask about that.
• 53:07
  Rupert Isaacson: So here's my question for her.
• 53:08
  Yeah.
• 53:08
  If you, this is as if I'm speaking to Lina and perhaps she can answer this.
• 53:12
  If you, Lina, if you didn't have autism mm-hmm.
• 53:15
  What would you have?
• 53:16
  What would you have?
• 53:18
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah, exactly.
• 53:18
  Let me, let me go and get her.
• 53:20
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 53:21
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Lina, she has a question for you.
• 53:23
  So Ru, but can you repeat that again?
• 53:25
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes, yes.
• 53:27
  In the text that your mom read me that you had written at the end of
• 53:32
  it, it said, I think it said yes.
• 53:34
  If you didn't have the OCD, you wouldn't have the autism.
• 53:39
  So my question is, if you didn't have the autism, what would you have?
• 53:45
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm, yes.
• 53:46
  She said if I didn't have the, my OCD and anxiety destroys so, so much
• 53:50
  Rupert Isaacson: anxiety.
• 53:50
  That's right.
• 53:51
  Helena Hjalmarsson: If I was free of that, I wouldn't have anxiety.
• 53:53
  Yeah.
• 53:54
  Rupert Isaacson: I wouldn't have autism.
• 53:56
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah, exactly.
• 53:57
  Yes.
• 53:57
  Sorry.
• 53:57
  So what
• 53:57
  Rupert Isaacson: would you have?
• 53:58
  What?
• 53:58
  What would you be,
• 54:00
  Helena Hjalmarsson: yeah, what would you be, what would you have in
• 54:04
  I,
• 54:07
  I think I, I would B
• 54:11
  really
• 54:12
  a
• 54:13
  lovely, okay.
• 54:14
  But you're already a lovely young woman, but I think I would
• 54:18
  be really a lovely young woman.
• 54:22
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 54:22
  But Lina, you clearly are a lovely young woman, so, I mean, I think by
• 54:27
  anybody's standards you're a lovely young woman, so Yeah, I, I think I,
• 54:32
  do you feel you would have any, yeah.
• 54:36
  I don't know what, what's the word?
• 54:38
  Condition quirk.
• 54:41
  If you didn't have the anxiety and the OCD or like, what would you,
• 54:47
  you say, I wouldn't have autism, or do you mean I wouldn't have
• 54:50
  the negative symptoms of autism
• 54:52
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Uhhuh?
• 54:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 54:54
  I think I would myself, I..
• 54:56
  I see
• 54:59
  Joy.
• 55:00
  I think I would myself talk about incredible joy
• 55:04
  and
• 55:06
  happiness.
• 55:07
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
• 55:10
  Do you think that day's coming, do you feel that day is coming?
• 55:14
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yes.
• 55:15
  My
• 55:16
  seeing, This U see it.
• 55:21
  I think my seeing it is less important.
• 55:24
  I think what is important, HeLina and Rupert is that you see it.
• 55:31
  Yeah.
• 55:32
  Rupert Isaacson: Do you want, do you want to, do you want to expand on that?
• 55:34
  On that?
• 55:34
  Yeah.
• 55:35
  Can you
• 55:35
  Helena Hjalmarsson: expand on that?
• 55:36
  I,
• 55:39
  I think the reason that I'm, that I'm saying that is that
• 55:42
  I am, I really am happy.
• 55:45
  And I
• 55:46
  think I
• 55:47
  Good want.
• 55:48
  That four?
• 55:50
  Okay.
• 55:52
  For everyone.
• 55:53
  Rupert Isaacson: Wonderful.
• 55:55
  Beautiful.
• 55:56
  Thank you.
• 55:58
  Is there any piece of writing, Lina things, we got you here now.
• 56:04
  Is there a particular piece of writing that you would like to share
• 56:09
  with the people watching this and listening to this?
• 56:13
  Helena Hjalmarsson: What do you think, Lina?
• 56:14
  I, I don't know.
• 56:15
  We have, hmm.
• 56:17
  Actually Lina, we, we don't have that much more here.
• 56:20
  Like, but there's one thing that I don't know, Lina, if you feel like
• 56:25
  sharing the stuff you just wrote, this was like a little practice test.
• 56:29
  We, Lina is, Lina wrote something else today because she was doing the testing
• 56:34
  for the placement test for the college.
• 56:35
  Which college
• 56:37
  Rupert Isaacson: is she, is she placed in for?
• 56:38
  Helena Hjalmarsson: It's Passaic in New Jersey.
• 56:41
  That's where she's going to this, this school.
• 56:43
  Fantastic.
• 56:44
  Yeah.
• 56:44
  So and she did so amazing.
• 56:46
  I was like four hours just straight.
• 56:50
  Amazing.
• 56:50
  I think that's why you are a little fry right now.
• 56:52
  Yeah.
• 56:52
  I'm
• 56:53
  Rupert Isaacson: not surprised.
• 56:54
  And we don't have to go on much longer with this one 'cause I was
• 56:57
  thinking there's so much here.
• 56:58
  I would actually very much like to pick up with you guys for part
• 57:01
  two and a part three, so we don't have to exhaust you with no.
• 57:06
  But I'm just thinking here we are.
• 57:08
  We're sort of at the hour and a half mark.
• 57:10
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 57:11
  Rupert Isaacson: Perhaps this might be a point to take a break.
• 57:14
  Yeah.
• 57:15
  But before we take the break, perhaps would you just share that piece of
• 57:19
  writing and then we can leave that with the listeners and then we'll, with your
• 57:23
  permission we'll come back to follow up.
• 57:26
  Helena Hjalmarsson: What do you think?
• 57:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 57:29
  Hi.
• 57:30
  I think
• 57:31
  that
• 57:32
  sounds
• 57:33
  amazing.
• 57:34
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, cool.
• 57:34
  Okay,
• 57:35
  Helena Hjalmarsson: so now.
• 57:37
  Yes, there was another one.
• 57:39
  Okay.
• 57:40
  Alright.
• 57:40
  So which one should we pick?
• 57:41
  So, and maybe you can help us, Robert.
• 57:44
  There's, she, she did two practice tests 'cause we were just trying to prepare.
• 57:48
  Right.
• 57:48
  And she has certain time.
• 57:49
  She, it has to be like an introduction and then it has to be
• 57:52
  like a little bit of bulk of work.
• 57:53
  It has to be within a certain timeframe and then a little bit of a, a summary.
• 57:58
  Right.
• 57:59
  So now one you wrote about choosing one issue you would prioritize
• 58:03
  if you were president of the United States and the other one.
• 58:06
  Explain the value of diversity to you.
• 58:10
  Which one?
• 58:11
  The, I wanna
• 58:12
  Rupert Isaacson: hear from President Lina.
• 58:14
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
• 58:15
  Yes, yes.
• 58:15
  Yeah,
• 58:15
  Rupert Isaacson: definitely.
• 58:16
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
• 58:17
  Rupert Isaacson: I know where I'm casting my vote.
• 58:19
  Yeah.
• 58:19
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
• 58:19
  Are you cool with that?
• 58:21
  Alright, good.
• 58:23
  In so many ways, every president has failed the American people.
• 58:28
  And seeing some, in seeing how someone fails, we learn about how to succeed.
• 58:34
  I think one of the biggest failures in American history is how we fail to
• 58:38
  see the earnings of the weary poor.
• 58:40
  I think a society that secludes some people from the things
• 58:44
  that other take for granted is a really sad society in my life.
• 58:49
  I have everything I could ever ask for.
• 58:51
  I see how privileged I am.
• 58:53
  I have food and clothes and a nice house to live in.
• 58:56
  I have books and computer and seeing of of many material things.
• 59:01
  If I didn't have these things, I would not be comfortable.
• 59:04
  I'm sure most poor people would do almost anything so that they could
• 59:08
  have the things I have in seeing the inequalities in this country.
• 59:12
  I wish we had a precedent that wanted it to change.
• 59:16
  I think the American people would love such a precedent.
• 59:20
  Seeing a real and compassionate soul is what opens us up to incredible generosity.
• 59:25
  A love that includes everyone is what this country needs.
• 59:30
  I so believe that a compassionate precedent is the most
• 59:33
  important need in America.
• 59:36
  Such a leader would restore this country, and its people in real transformation.
• 59:41
  Everyone benefits.
• 59:42
  It's a long road to restore this country, but a road forward
• 59:46
  is the only road available.
• 59:48
  I center my thoughts on being able to see incredible transformation of this
• 59:52
  land when we elect a, a compassionate precedent that service the needs of
• 59:57
  the poor, as well as the wealthy,
• 59:59
  Rupert Isaacson: beautiful words to live by.
• 1:00:02
  Yeah.
• 1:00:02
  When you begin your presidential campaign, Lina, I will, yeah.
• 1:00:06
  See my vote for you.
• 1:00:08
  Yeah.
• 1:00:08
  And canvassing on your behalf, but you're absolutely dead.
• 1:00:11
  Right?
• 1:00:12
  And you know, sadly, of course, a lot of the people that are attracted
• 1:00:15
  to the job of being president Yeah.
• 1:00:19
  Unfortunately are not such compassionate people.
• 1:00:20
  But from time to time we get one.
• 1:00:23
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
• 1:00:23
  Rupert Isaacson: From time to time we get one.
• 1:00:25
  And I think your, I, I mean, you are, you are absolutely dead.
• 1:00:30
  Right.
• 1:00:30
  Basically, you're dead.
• 1:00:31
  Right.
• 1:00:32
  And it wouldn't matter which political party that person came from.
• 1:00:35
  Helena Hjalmarsson: No.
• 1:00:35
  It wouldn't.
• 1:00:36
  Rupert Isaacson: Compassion is compassion.
• 1:00:38
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Yep.
• 1:00:40
  Rupert Isaacson: Lina, thank you.
• 1:00:41
  Thank you for coming and doing this, especially after
• 1:00:44
  you sat that four hour exam.
• 1:00:46
  Yes.
• 1:00:47
  And I'm just blown away.
• 1:00:48
  I, in all the interactions that I've had with you, I've never been able to
• 1:00:53
  sit with you like this and converse.
• 1:00:55
  I, it makes me so happy.
• 1:00:57
  I'm
• 1:01:01
  it.
• 1:01:02
  You've gland in my heart.
• 1:01:06
  To in a way that it's hard for me to express because in, in, in my
• 1:01:10
  job, the really, part of the reason for this podcast is I, as you know,
• 1:01:17
  campaign and work to help people like my son and people like you and so on.
• 1:01:26
  And I've been led by autistic people from the get go.
• 1:01:30
  It was never my dream to do this.
• 1:01:32
  And when I first got the diagnosis with my son, I knew that I didn't know what to do.
• 1:01:38
  So I knew I needed to be led by autistic people because they were the only people
• 1:01:42
  who could understand the condition.
• 1:01:44
  And I, that's why I made contact with Dr.
• 1:01:47
  Temple Grandin, who's autistic and got mentorship from her, from the get go.
• 1:01:52
  But we still need more mentorship.
• 1:01:55
  And if things are going to change for the better people like you, people
• 1:01:59
  like my son, need to mentor us.
• 1:02:02
  Yeah.
• 1:02:03
  So perhaps in the next podcast that we do, with your permission, I might
• 1:02:10
  pose some of those questions, like, what could, and should we do better?
• 1:02:15
  Perhaps in the interim you could ponder those questions with no pressure.
• 1:02:21
  Just see, just see what bubbles up, because honestly,
• 1:02:23
  Lina, I need your mentorship.
• 1:02:25
  I do.
• 1:02:26
  If I don't get guidance from you and those like you, I, I'm lost.
• 1:02:31
  So I'm just incredibly grateful that you are sharing this with us.
• 1:02:37
  And you could have stayed in your world and not come forward like this,
• 1:02:42
  and you'd have been just as beautiful and it would've been just as valid.
• 1:02:45
  But as you said, you know, the fact that you did go through this excruciating
• 1:02:50
  process to learn how to do this really is for the benefit of all, and that was
• 1:02:56
  a compassionate act of yours to do that.
• 1:02:59
  Helena Hjalmarsson: That's a good point.
• 1:03:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:03:01
  So I'm grateful.
• 1:03:02
  Just want to say that.
• 1:03:06
  Alright, my friends.
• 1:03:07
  Shall we, shall we wrap it for today and come back to it in a few weeks perhaps?
• 1:03:12
  Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
• 1:03:13
  Rupert Isaacson: Is that okay?
• 1:03:13
  Shall I do that?
• 1:03:15
  Yes.
• 1:03:16
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• 1:03:20
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• 1:03:24
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• 1:03:28
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• 1:03:34
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• 1:03:34
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• 1:03:38
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• 1:03:45
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• 1:03:49
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• 1:04:04
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• 1:04:08
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• 1:04:15
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• 1:04:20
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• 1:04:21
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• 1:04:25
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• 1:04:30
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