Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 368 - Who Took Out Sam Giancana?

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 368 - Who Took Out Sam Giancana? · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: H yoyo, it's your boy, the Tesla King helon Mosk.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: The boys always make my rocket shoot straight up. No homo,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: you bout to listen to the number one JFK related
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: podcast on planet Mars. Now plug in your neural link
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  Speaker 1: for two numb nuts who aren't a waste of government spending,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the Triple B and Joe by.
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  Speaker 2: Gis up to the job job and we rave and
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: then Joey Frap job Ready, then Joby.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Joey Emen, Mariam and Jim, then Job s Rappy, job Redya.
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: Sellow show Kill Lee and here we go, Here we go, Indeed,
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: what's up? Everybody?
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  Speaker 5: Welcome to the Lone gum And Podcast, Episode number three
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  Speaker 5: hundred and sixty eight. Who took out Sam g and Conna?
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  Speaker 4: That is a question. We're gonna hope to shed some
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  Speaker 4: light on.
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  Speaker 5: This evening, and we're gonna tell you who it probably
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  Speaker 5: wasn't And you can kind of guess from the the
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: show art there the thumbnail who we're gonna say it
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  Speaker 5: wasn't that other people seem to think.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: That it was.
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  Speaker 5: But we'll put that to bed, don't worry. And to
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  Speaker 5: do that, I got my old myth busting buddy, proprietor
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  Speaker 5: and CEO of tpaak dot com, author of Human time
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  Speaker 5: Bomb and Two Princes and a King, friend of the show,
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  Speaker 5: friend of ours, a friend.
• 2:07
  Speaker 6: Of our, yes, a friend of ours, not a friend
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  Speaker 6: of ours.
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  Speaker 7: To us by son's.
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  Speaker 4: Baby. Yeah, what's up? Welcome back my friend.
• 2:24
  Speaker 6: Thanks, I appreciate it. Going to be back with both
• 2:26
  Speaker 6: you guys and knocking down bad ideas as usual.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's I think it's almost been a year, Carmine
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  Speaker 7: and obviously way overdue. I think you might be our
• 2:40
  Speaker 7: most requested guest and the people go, when is Carmike
• 2:47
  Speaker 7: coming on next?
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  Speaker 4: That's why we keep him a rarity?
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  Speaker 7: Uh and yeah, I mean at the risk of sounding
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  Speaker 7: like a fanboy, I think I mentioned this last time.
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  Speaker 7: When I first started listening to TLG. Your shows were
• 3:04
  Speaker 7: my favorite by far, and I appreciate it. So we
• 3:09
  Speaker 7: figured we do another type of epic MythBusters type of
• 3:12
  Speaker 7: episode and you probably are. Well. You are the first
• 3:18
  Speaker 7: guest of our lone comment podcast research month, the first
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  Speaker 7: of five.
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  Speaker 8: Hopefully well.
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  Speaker 6: I hope everything goes well tonight and for the rest
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: of the episode we do too.
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  Speaker 7: Uh, just want to I don't want to waste your
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  Speaker 7: time and welcome everyone in. I just, of course want
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  Speaker 7: to thank the Double B for gifting oh I'm sorry,
• 3:46
  Speaker 7: gifting five Spook level memberships and a bunch of people
• 3:53
  Speaker 7: got some. And then thank you.
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: You guys are awesome. I appreciate that.
• 3:59
  Speaker 7: We do love Carmine, we really do, uh, Double B.
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  Speaker 7: Then another ten dollars super Chat spread cheeks not hate,
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  Speaker 7: ready for the show, and uh Dean Walker with a
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  Speaker 7: five dollars super Chat pair pair of character.
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  Speaker 5: Let's hold on you love this car mane hold on.
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  Speaker 5: We got a new celebration from when we get super Chat.
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  Speaker 4: David's very.
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  Speaker 8: Little celebration.
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  Speaker 4: Doesn't even get any but we'll take it all.
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  Speaker 7: Rob likes to get most of it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, right to the face, Thank you, and we.
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  Speaker 7: Know all the usual characters will be here. We know
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  Speaker 7: who you are, so Rob, what's what's at the table
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  Speaker 7: and get right into it.
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  Speaker 4: Let's do it.
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  Speaker 5: And we do have a lot of new listeners, car Mine,
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  Speaker 5: so if you could just set the table real quick
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  Speaker 5: for the guy we're gonna be talking about here tonight,
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  Speaker 5: mister Sam g and Kannah and kind of how he
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  Speaker 5: relates to the JFK assassination, whether it be through lore
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  Speaker 5: or supposition or actual involvement if you could believe.
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  Speaker 6: Okay, uh so basically, you know, just a brief summary.
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  Speaker 6: Sam Jenkanna was probably one of the most notorious bosses
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  Speaker 6: of the Chicago crime family who was in charge for
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  Speaker 6: a nice chunk of the sixties during the ken of
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  Speaker 6: the administration, and he was involved in since he was
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  Speaker 6: a kid in i'd say, you know, twenties until he
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  Speaker 6: became official in the thirties. You know, he worked his
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  Speaker 6: way up through the mafia and he was involved in
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  Speaker 6: what people probably heard of called the Castro plots. He
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  Speaker 6: wasn't involved in a way that was actually functional. He
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  Speaker 6: actually ended up blackmailing the government because he was sneakier
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  Speaker 6: than they were. And Gienkanna was brought in Zelli, who
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  Speaker 6: is a famous mafia figure as well, but he was
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  Speaker 6: famous for being hitman and running rackets. People call him
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  Speaker 6: the Don of La which isn't true. But he was
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  Speaker 6: probably one of the primary mafia figures in the West
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  Speaker 6: for the developmental stage of the mafia when it came
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  Speaker 6: to its prominence in holding you know, Vegas and other
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  Speaker 6: places in its clutches tightly by the sixties, so Jinkanna
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  Speaker 6: is usually associated with the Kennedy case because people say
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  Speaker 6: that either he was part of the assassination, or he
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  Speaker 6: somehow is connected to Jack Ruby, or that he was
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  Speaker 6: paid off by the Kennedys to pull in Illinois for
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  Speaker 6: them so jfk could win. All those claims do not
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  Speaker 6: have a significant amount.
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  Speaker 8: Of it evidens, but they're very popular.
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  Speaker 6: People like to say it.
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  Speaker 8: People like to throw his name into things.
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  Speaker 6: And I've talked to his daughter, I've looked at the
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  Speaker 6: files that the FBI have on him, at least, you know,
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  Speaker 6: hundreds of them. I you know, was able to find
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  Speaker 6: out certain things about him and the people around him,
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  Speaker 6: but ultimately I think he hit. While his mob tactics
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  Speaker 6: are certainly a matter of the historical record and he
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  Speaker 6: did a lot of horrible stuff, he isn't necessarily connected
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  Speaker 6: with the Kennedy case unless you want to try via
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  Speaker 6: the Castra plots. That's usually where people say, well, then
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  Speaker 6: maybe later he conspired with someone in the CIA and
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  Speaker 6: they which is all possible. But beyond the Castra documents,
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  Speaker 6: it's not like there's any gian Kanna first hand interviews
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  Speaker 6: by people in the CIA. The FBI monitored him that
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  Speaker 6: is certainly like he was one of the few people
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  Speaker 6: who knew he was being watched. Jiankanna, who's being watched?
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  Speaker 6: Tonya Carter, who's being watched? Any ROSSELLI, the smarter in
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  Speaker 6: the mafia, understood that after the Kafaver hearings in the fifties,
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  Speaker 6: and they had found out about the commission, and they
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  Speaker 6: had found out about that spanned the nation. The mafia,
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  Speaker 6: they knew they were probably being watched because no one
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  Speaker 6: knew until then. But once you catch a big group
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  Speaker 6: of mobsters and you do hearings on it, you're all
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  Speaker 6: pretty much famous after that or infamous.
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  Speaker 5: Was it Martino or was it Lauren Hall? It might
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  Speaker 5: have been Lauren Hall. In his HSCA statement mentioned something
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  Speaker 5: about Gene Khanna being kind of like a a pay
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  Speaker 5: not necessarily a pay master, but providing. Was it fifty
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  Speaker 5: thousand dollars to Martino and company down there to be
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  Speaker 5: split up for I don't know if the Castro plots.
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  Speaker 6: Or yeah, I mean that's totally possible. The thing is
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  Speaker 6: is that, like I said, he he got the government.
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  Speaker 6: The government foolishly via the CIA, engaged with him and
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  Speaker 6: engaged with Johnny Eli, who also you know. I mean
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  Speaker 6: they saw this as an opportunity that the government didn't
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  Speaker 6: understand because what they tried to get They thought that
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  Speaker 6: they were going to get the mobsters to go down
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  Speaker 6: there and do a hit like a daylight. You know,
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  Speaker 6: everybody dies doing it. Kill Castro at any cost. But
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  Speaker 6: what was their incentive? They had no The mobsters privately
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  Speaker 6: were like, we're never going to do that. Why would
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  Speaker 6: we go and throw And it's funny because in the interviews,
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  Speaker 6: do you kinda they call them? Sam Gold was always
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  Speaker 6: talking about how patriotch he was and how he wanted
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  Speaker 6: to help the country, and there is a history of
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  Speaker 6: you know, in the forties Lucky Luciano, right, and some
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  Speaker 6: of the mobsters actually helping, like World War They hated
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  Speaker 6: the Nazis, and they hated Mussolin and what he had
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  Speaker 6: done to Italy. So they had invested interest in that.
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  Speaker 6: In this, they had no interest. They didn't They just
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  Speaker 6: wanted the casinos back. They didn't want to overthrow Castro.
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  Speaker 6: They went to buy him, and the government thought that
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  Speaker 6: they were going to recruit for an assassination.
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  Speaker 8: Applied to the wife.
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  Speaker 6: He's like, oh yeah, sure, we'll think about it, and
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  Speaker 6: just strung them along and then said, okay, now either
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  Speaker 6: he had some So basically gien Conna had a girlfriend
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  Speaker 6: in common with JFK allegedly, and that would be what
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  Speaker 6: was her name, Judith Exner allegedly, And also he had
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  Speaker 6: another one called Phyllis Maguire who was a famous singer
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  Speaker 6: of the McGuire sisters who attracted attention, and he thought
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  Speaker 6: that one of them was cheating on him, so he
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  Speaker 6: hired people to put sound equipment into the room to
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  Speaker 6: spy on her, which ended up being discovered, which ended
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  Speaker 6: up getting to the Department of Justice, requiring RFK to
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  Speaker 6: have to step in and make it go away for
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  Speaker 6: gen Conna. Otherwise everybody finds out about the Castro plots,
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  Speaker 6: which was a huge black guy for the US, so
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  Speaker 6: that's they used this leverage. Yeah, So that's basically his
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  Speaker 6: rotation in the JFK sphere. And he is a very
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  Speaker 6: notable person also because he died under mysterious circumstances.
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  Speaker 8: And it was just before he was supposed to go
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  Speaker 8: and testify to the Church Commission.
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  Speaker 5: I believe, yes, yes it was, or had he already
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  Speaker 5: talked to them a couple of times.
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  Speaker 6: Well, he he had talked to officials, but he was
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  Speaker 6: he didn't. I don't think he gave them anything. Like
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  Speaker 6: when I looked at one of his earlier interviews, he
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  Speaker 6: was kind of like Traficante the Fifth, actually the fifth,
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  Speaker 6: the fifth he you know, he gave them some things,
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  Speaker 6: but most of them beyond their informants, which there were,
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  Speaker 6: as we will find out, beyond the official informants within
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  Speaker 6: the ranks of the mafia, most people didn't give them
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  Speaker 6: anything of real use and were usually hostile, openly hostile
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  Speaker 6: with you know, the government, right.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, No, he was shot just one day before he
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  Speaker 7: was scheduled to testify before the US Sentence Church Committee
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  Speaker 7: about his involvement and the CIA mafia pause against Fidel Castro,
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  Speaker 7: and we were going to get into the circumstances of
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  Speaker 7: mister g and Kamma's death shortly. Roselli ironically was killed after, Yeah,
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  Speaker 7: talk to them, which we'll get into.
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  Speaker 6: And people always try to say, well, he was going
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  Speaker 6: to testify more, and that's possible. But the whole thing
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  Speaker 6: about my problem just initially just looking at it from
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  Speaker 6: the beginning. For someone who's never looked at this before,
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  Speaker 6: I would have you look at it with fresh eyes,
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  Speaker 6: and just say, if these guys were so instrumental in
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  Speaker 6: JFK's death.
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  Speaker 8: Would they not have been quilled fairly quickly?
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  Speaker 6: Would you wait over a decade to do it and
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  Speaker 6: then risk reigniting the entire thing again, or would you
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  Speaker 6: just wipe them out quickly. I think that's one of
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: the reason why I don't think either one of them,
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  Speaker 6: though they could have had something to do with Rupe,
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: because you know, somebody had to tell Jojo Campeasy to
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: go say hi.
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  Speaker 8: Right afterwards in the Dallas jail.
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  Speaker 7: The Chicago connection, of course.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah like that. It's totally possible that they're on that,
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  Speaker 6: but that would be the extent the more. It's only
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  Speaker 6: if you try to blame the mob for everything. And
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  Speaker 6: as we've talked about in other shows for other reasons,
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  Speaker 6: this is beyond what occurred in deily Plosa, is beyond
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  Speaker 6: just a mob hit. It doesn't follow the style of
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  Speaker 6: a mob hit. In fact, you know it's you don't
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  Speaker 6: the mafia. Funny enough is more subtle than that. As
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  Speaker 6: we know from the local basketball things that are going
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  Speaker 6: on these days, the mob was a little more subtle
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  Speaker 6: than maybe some people.
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  Speaker 7: And that is crazy, man, that that Mafia story with
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  Speaker 7: with Terry Rogier and everything. I mean, I'm kind of
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  Speaker 7: all over that. That is what's fascinating four to five families.
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  Speaker 6: Well, and what's crazy is is that they've done it
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: over and over. One of the earliest instances of that
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  Speaker 6: I remember reading about was when it was one of
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: the Marx brothers. They were ripping off Harpo Marx and
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: famous people in the U Friars Club in California, and
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: they had a guy in the ceiling who is sending
• 14:21
  Speaker 6: messages to somebody on the floor below who would relay
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: the messages to the guy at the table. I mean,
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  Speaker 6: they've been ripping off celebrities and blackmailing them. That's part
• 14:29
  Speaker 6: of the deal. That's one of the They used to
• 14:32
  Speaker 6: be these things called black letters in the real early
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: days when it was just Sicilians that got it from
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: the mob and you'd get a black hand letter and
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: you did what it said or else.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, no, blackmails, they're meat and potatoes. They would they
• 14:46
  Speaker 7: would enhance, they would you know, let players gamble. They
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: would eventually lose and then they would be in their debt.
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  Speaker 7: I mean, and Michael Francisi for his Frenchies for all
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  Speaker 7: his uh you know, he's everywhere now has been saying
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  Speaker 7: like this has been going on for like forty years.
• 15:04
  Speaker 7: This is like oh at least at least right, so
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: it's it's fascinating.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, And it's the same setup. I mean, now they
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: have a higher tech motif, but essentially it's the same thing.
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  Speaker 7: You cheat at.
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  Speaker 6: Cards, you get them into debt and then they owe
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: you a service.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: Right forever somebody was asking me, you know, are they
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: still around to this day? Oh?
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, they've just changed their techtic gumblings. In some cases,
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  Speaker 5: they've adapted to the times. You know, they're not dumb
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  Speaker 5: that you know, they have used technology to their advantage.
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: And they're just a little bit more discreet than they
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: used to be about things.
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: And well I want other people to be quiet. So
• 15:47
  Speaker 6: they have to operate as cells. They can't operate in
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: a superstructure all the time. You know, they can you know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: send message, right, But like you were saying, because they
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: got Giuliani and everybody in New York who thought that
• 15:59
  Speaker 6: some magic wand was going to make the five families
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  Speaker 6: who have existed for like a century just go away.
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: Now they'll just go underground, like any group Yeah, well.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: The new mayor will take care.
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: Of you know what.
• 16:14
  Speaker 7: Franchise just said, the Mafia needs to return to New York.
• 16:20
  Speaker 7: I just heard him say that the other after Mandavi
• 16:24
  Speaker 7: or whoever was elected.
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: Don't call it a comeback.
• 16:28
  Speaker 7: He goes, hey, it might be better for New York.
• 16:33
  Speaker 7: And then I mean, listen New York as a I
• 16:36
  Speaker 7: live forty five minutes away from there. It's it's a
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: mess times square. My girlfriend goes there, I get worried,
• 16:43
  Speaker 7: like she's like four eleven, you know what I mean,
• 16:46
  Speaker 7: Like it's it's anyways.
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: So I guess the.
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: Reason for this show is a kind of MythBuster, kind
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: of bringing back what you guys used.
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: Chat is correct, though Rico was very effective, but you
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: could only get the sloppy ones. The smart ones aren't
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: gonna let them. Like even the oldest bosses I remember
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: in some cases, you know, they didn't use phones, they
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: had runners. If you go low tech, that's the way
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: to get around them now, and I bet you a
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: lot of them did go low tech. You know, if
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: you go analog and there's no way to trace your phone,
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: if you're using only burner phones, if you're always.
• 17:26
  Speaker 8: Off the grid, good luck.
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: Rico was the end of the mafia.
• 17:33
  Speaker 8: It was the end of the obvious.
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: Mafia, right, Okay, knew you're right, and it hobbled them,
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: but I think they learned, just like they learned from
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: every time they learn and they yeah, and they.
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: Had that right. So let's get in the door, dash
• 17:52
  Speaker 7: to the jail.
• 17:52
  Speaker 8: That's a good one.
• 17:54
  Speaker 7: Let's try to debunk these guys who just like to
• 17:59
  Speaker 7: throw things out without any evidence or documents whatsoever.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: Well, he even says that after he makes the statement, right,
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: or you know what.
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: My favorite word is. I just love it when people
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: feel something happened.
• 18:19
  Speaker 7: But it's reaching hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of listeners,
• 18:24
  Speaker 7: and I think it's that's the pro irresponsible.
• 18:28
  Speaker 6: We have a feeling as well.
• 18:31
  Speaker 7: So let's hear that. We know, let's hear what our
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: favorite podcast has to say about this and.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Frank Sturgis America's Untrue Stories. Did you ever meet Jack Ruby?
• 18:48
  Speaker 9: What do you think about We have stories now that
• 18:51
  Speaker 9: there were two men hired by uh CIA operatives, John
• 18:56
  Speaker 9: Rosselli and sam Jen Khan to mafia hoods. They were
• 18:59
  Speaker 9: hired of the US government to assassinate Fidel Castro did
• 19:03
  Speaker 9: you know anything about those two men friends?
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: Do you think that their debts within a year of
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: each other were related.
• 19:13
  Speaker 10: Well, there's two possibilities. One, the Cuban intelligence organization probably
• 19:20
  Speaker 10: sent agents to kill him.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: They had that.
• 19:23
  Speaker 10: Uh, they have that much power to prove that.
• 19:28
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 19:29
  Speaker 10: It's on record in the United States government that Castro
• 19:32
  Speaker 10: did send Mexican agents to the United States to uh
• 19:37
  Speaker 10: kill myself. And also the ex chief of the Cuban
• 19:39
  Speaker 10: Air Force who came into exile, which I arranged as
• 19:42
  Speaker 10: it scame funk.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: You with.
• 19:45
  Speaker 6: Is Pedro sorry, Pedro Marcos.
• 19:51
  Speaker 10: Of killing people he's done in South America. And your
• 19:55
  Speaker 10: theory is that he was behind the assassination. No, it's
• 19:57
  Speaker 10: not my theory. I think the facts of their or
• 20:01
  Speaker 10: the evidence of there with testimony, I had given a
• 20:05
  Speaker 10: certain fast that the goal Canstrow was behind involved in
• 20:11
  Speaker 10: the conspiracy to kill the president of the United States.
• 20:15
  Speaker 11: This is yeah, there was a good place to cut
• 20:17
  Speaker 11: it right there. I mean, this is why he's being
• 20:19
  Speaker 11: trotted out at this point in the late seventies, is
• 20:22
  Speaker 11: to sell this conspiracy theory that it's that it was
• 20:26
  Speaker 11: orchestrated by Castro. I now, this is this is just me,
• 20:31
  Speaker 11: But I believe that Johnny Rosselli and sam g Andcanna
• 20:34
  Speaker 11: were killed by Frank Sturgis.
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: If if people are watching this on replay and you
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: don't know what we're talking about, you'll have to watch
• 20:44
  Speaker 6: on Rumble or locals, because that means there's a copyright dispute.
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: Well let's keep out fingers cross.
• 20:48
  Speaker 11: But I believe that Roselli and Giancana were not killed
• 20:51
  Speaker 11: by Castro's agents. I think they were killed by Frank Sturgis.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: And I have no.
• 20:55
  Speaker 11: Evidence of this. It's just he was able to get
• 20:58
  Speaker 11: close to them. He knew h Roselli and he knew Giancanna,
• 21:02
  Speaker 11: and I think that Cuban intelligence agents were not able
• 21:06
  Speaker 11: to get into sam Gy and Kanna's kitchen and have
• 21:08
  Speaker 11: spaghetti with him while he's about to testify before the
• 21:11
  Speaker 11: House Assassinations Committee.
• 21:13
  Speaker 8: Uh okay, sausage and peppers. But close enough, I.
• 21:17
  Speaker 7: Guess, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: Uh so you weren't close enough to get in with
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: any chicken Pacada.
• 21:32
  Speaker 7: So as my I mean, probably go to a researcher
• 21:37
  Speaker 7: on the mafia if I had a question, which would
• 21:39
  Speaker 7: be you did Frank Sturgis is there any documentation that
• 21:44
  Speaker 7: he knew either of them.
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: Actually, there is a document as you know that Frank
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: Sturgis not only as he said on that show, didn't
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: know Roselli, but there's a document where he's made that
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: statement authorities as well when they questioned him about Johnny
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: Rosselli and sam Gi and Conna that he had only
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: heard of him on TV, that he had only known
• 22:06
  Speaker 6: from him of you know, being in the paper and
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: being the famous my fiosa.
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: Right of course, like Florida based basically, yeah, and you
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: got Versili in Vegas and California and gian Conne in Chicago,
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: and I don't think Sturgis spent much time in either
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: of those.
• 22:24
  Speaker 6: Well, by the time of his death, Roselli had relocated
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: to his sister's house in Florida. That's probably where he
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: gets the belief that because they were in the same state. Well,
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: I know, ten ten you know over this is over
• 22:40
  Speaker 6: ten years later, they had no direct connection according to
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: any evidence that as they.
• 22:45
  Speaker 8: Said, I have no evidence for this in public.
• 22:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I believe that they have no evidence.
• 22:55
  Speaker 7: For this, right and I'm not saying to like Exturgis,
• 23:00
  Speaker 7: we should believe every word now no stretch.
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: I mean, well, as you can see, he did. Like
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: the part, in my opinion that they got correct was
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: that Sturgis would lie on behest of the CIA or
• 23:14
  Speaker 6: the mafia. Sure, he'd do that all day long, and
• 23:17
  Speaker 6: he would make up stories about Castro killing people. That
• 23:22
  Speaker 6: G two, which is the Cuban Intelligence Group, the direct
• 23:26
  Speaker 6: direction own the Intelligencia. They were very effective in Cuba.
• 23:31
  Speaker 6: They did do US based operations to a certain extent.
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: They weren't going to go first of all, they would
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: have to find someone in the mafia that would work
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: with them to give up sam Gy and Kana. So
• 23:44
  Speaker 6: how are they going to do that with no notice?
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: Since sam Gi and Conn has been being watched by
• 23:48
  Speaker 6: the FBI since the fifties, and so has Tonia Cardo,
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: and so has Johnny Roselli. So at what point in
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: this ongoing surveillance illegal Most of the time, were they
• 23:59
  Speaker 6: just was this agent not going to be noticed by
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: j Edgar Hoover's people? Right, It's just it's, as they
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: like to say, anything's possible, but not anything's probable. It's
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: very improbable.
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know there's over the years, you know, people
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: tried to tie Frank sturs his CIA officially on paper,
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: which you can't do.
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: But but they used to cutouts, they used other ways.
• 24:27
  Speaker 8: Yeah, you can wave. He was definitely in Bay of Pigs.
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: You know, he definitely was part of CIA operation, but
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: he was an outsider and I think really he was
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: a person trying to inflate his importance in the whole matter.
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he was definitely feeding them information, whether it's for
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: money or what. Maybe even a double double agent, who knows. Yeah,
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: I mean, because I think this dude is while he's
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: openly on Herald at this time saying, Okay, he thinks
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: Castro is behind the assassination. You know, he spent a
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: lot of time in Cuba and knew.
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: This, and he hated Fidel Castro. He lost friends to
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: Fidel Castro's men. You know, he was really emotionally invested
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: in part of the group that tried to overthrow him
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: and directly blame JFK. Which is one of the reasons
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: why people try to say Sturges was one of the tramps.
• 25:16
  Speaker 8: I try to say that. I mean, they try to.
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: Plug in very well known names. Unfortunately, they usually don't
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: have the evidence to put them in the position. They
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: say they're in at the time, they need to be.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: Right, you know.
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: Plus you have him around e Howard Hunt and all
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: the rest of the CIA affiliated guys at Watergate.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: But suppose he's got no task to the CIA.
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: Well, and that's why I've always thought that it was interesting.
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: I know more people are looking into it now and
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: I hope that they are able to get their hands
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: on some of the most important documents. I've always thought
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: it was very interesting that the fall of the Nixon
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: administration occurred because people who could have potentially had a
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: big issue with Richard Nixon since he took out a
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: third of the officers and the CIA and reappointed the
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: director as a non CIA person under his control after
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: he told Helms, you're gonna give me all the files
• 26:06
  Speaker 6: I want or else and then fired him. There's probably
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: a lot of people that wanted to see Richard Dixon
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: go down in the CIA, so that Sturgis totally could
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: have been And to me, that's way more interesting because
• 26:17
  Speaker 6: we have evidence for it, opposed to he killed jeffk
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: Or claiming that he killed like Johnny Rosellie, him saying okay,
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: we can go into however you want to do.
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: Each of them.
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: But Frank Sturgis, based on the evidence that you will
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: see and everything we've said so far, was not likely.
• 26:37
  Speaker 6: It's very improbable he killed either of those people because,
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: like I said, he there's no proof that even met
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: Johnny Roselli or sam Gy and Cottna. There's no evidence
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: of that. There's people that say that happened. Well, this
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: guy just said that he killed people and he has
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: no evidence. So people say stuff all the time.
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: You know, do we know if Frank Sturgis did he
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: did he get jail time out of the Watergate thing?
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: I believe, Yeah, I believe. I know for sure he
• 27:11
  Speaker 6: Lily got jailed, Hunt got jailed. He probably got jailed too.
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: I think most of the burglars got jailed.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: I was just wondering if he if he had gotten
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: jailed and then gotten out early for some reason, and
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: maybe maybe he out of favor to somebody.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there.
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah, who knows.
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: I mean, I'll tell you in a second.
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, thirteen months, Okay, he got thirteen months in prison.
• 27:35
  Speaker 7: You beat me, yeap.
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: Habits. As soon as someone.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Asked a question, I just that's what he was.
• 27:43
  Speaker 12: Sentence too, or that's what he actually he did thirteen months,
• 27:46
  Speaker 12: he did thirteen probably got sentenced to more or thirteen
• 27:50
  Speaker 12: months plus days.
• 27:52
  Speaker 8: Here, let me we have thirteen.
• 27:55
  Speaker 7: Fourteen months in dan Berry, Connecticut, Oh was Connecticut later.
• 28:01
  Speaker 6: At the University of Virginia, saying thirteen months though, so
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: we have a he served over a year.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's multiple.
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, there's multiple reasonable sources that say differently.
• 28:11
  Speaker 7: Right on a one to four year sentence allegily, so.
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: He got an early release. Yeah, yeah, you probably cooperated.
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: I would think he was a good boy company many
• 28:24
  Speaker 6: company man exactly.
• 28:28
  Speaker 7: So, I mean the deaths of g and Kanna, We're
• 28:32
  Speaker 7: going to go into the documents in a second, and
• 28:35
  Speaker 7: Roselle are very different. Right to me when I look
• 28:39
  Speaker 7: at it, and I look at Sam g and Conna
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: making sausage and peppers for someone he obviously trusted, turning
• 28:49
  Speaker 7: his back and then getting shot, I don't know how
• 28:54
  Speaker 7: many times, A few times, a lot, I believe seven.
• 28:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I have the.
• 28:58
  Speaker 8: Photo mouth the head.
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: It was that.
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: It makes no sense that say he even did know
• 29:08
  Speaker 7: Frank Sturgis and he knew he was affiliated with uh
• 29:13
  Speaker 7: C i A or Anti Castro like it's still makes sense,
• 29:20
  Speaker 7: doesn't make sense.
• 29:20
  Speaker 6: Sorry, someone was asking about around the mouth. I believe that.
• 29:24
  Speaker 7: No, Well, we'll get to the picture in a second.
• 29:26
  Speaker 7: I'll give the trigger trigger warning before and the Rosselli hit,
• 29:36
  Speaker 7: which is much more gian Kanna seems like business right,
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: shot to the back, but personal. Roselle seems to me
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: to be a little more personal. And I have the
• 29:48
  Speaker 7: autopsy report and it's like it reads like a serial
• 29:52
  Speaker 7: killer got torn out lower extremities, whatever that means.
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: I think in a way they were messages of differing types.
• 30:03
  Speaker 6: The message with Giancanna was it doesn't matter where you are,
• 30:07
  Speaker 6: it doesn't matter who you are, you can be gotten.
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: The message with Roselli was you're gonna find be found
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: in peace is floating in a drum if you talk
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: to the government, and he did, and then he was
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: found in pieces.
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: Which after as compared to g and Kanna one day before, yeah, right,
• 30:33
  Speaker 7: which I don't think is a coin.
• 30:35
  Speaker 8: No, I don't think yeah at all.
• 30:38
  Speaker 6: They could have certainly could have been to silence in
• 30:39
  Speaker 6: and get rid of him, but I think the overriding
• 30:42
  Speaker 6: motive in the Gmconno murder was to get rid of him.
• 30:45
  Speaker 6: Roselli was retired. He was largely broke. They had cut
• 30:49
  Speaker 6: him out of most of the operations he had. He
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: didn't have any rackets anymore. He was living with his sister.
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: He's collecting social Security. He was an old man, but
• 30:59
  Speaker 6: he knew that that could still hurt people in charge.
• 31:03
  Speaker 7: Yeah, so why don't you explain? So he goes down
• 31:06
  Speaker 7: to Mexico, right, and now if you want to.
• 31:10
  Speaker 6: Sort of run, do I'll do a quick run on
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: the early and then get the so yeah, and then
• 31:14
  Speaker 6: I'll go into my problem. Okay, So let me think
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: I got a Okay, so what's the best way to
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: go through? So, Sam jin Kanna, I believe you said
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: earlier when we were talking nineteen oh eight, was we're
• 31:29
  Speaker 6: nineteen oh eight U in Italy, in Chicago, Illinoise.
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: Poor family.
• 31:35
  Speaker 6: Father was abusive, pretty standard for the average mobster, especially
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: when back then discipline wasn't discipline, it was abuse half
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: the time. So you know, he was thrown out of
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: school repeatedly, finally got expelled and he was on the
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: streets as a teenager. I was talking to Joe earlier
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: and I called it the uh the young Man's mafia,
• 31:58
  Speaker 6: But basically gangs of you know, runaways of kids, are
• 32:04
  Speaker 6: expelled of hoodlums would get together and they would intimidate
• 32:07
  Speaker 6: people and rob people and do minor crimes. And this
• 32:11
  Speaker 6: was basically the minor leagues for the mafia. He came
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: up in a gang called the forty Two's, which reportedly
• 32:18
  Speaker 6: was based on Ali Baba and the forty Thieves, but
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: there are two other people. He got the nickname Mooney,
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: which means crazy, because he would do anything. And later
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: on he proved that as you know, hitman or bombing
• 32:31
  Speaker 6: places or wheelman for robberies. They called him crazy because
• 32:36
  Speaker 6: he would do anything to get ahead.
• 32:39
  Speaker 7: Moon.
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: Perhaps I wouldn't I wouldn't put it. But so he
• 32:49
  Speaker 6: came up and during the Copone gang in the thirties,
• 32:52
  Speaker 6: he got officially made. He got he became part of
• 32:56
  Speaker 6: the Compone gang. Eventually he rose to the ranks. You know,
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: some people try to call him Capone's driver. That's not
• 33:02
  Speaker 6: the case. Copone had other drivers used more. He might
• 33:05
  Speaker 6: have driven Al Capone sometimes, but mostly he was Tonya
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: Cardo's driver. Tony Ycardo is another prominent mobster. Some people
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: might have heard of him. He Big Tuna was one
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: of his names. Tony Big Tuna a Cardo, he was
• 33:20
  Speaker 6: the senior mobster who brought up, helped Ginkanna rise, and
• 33:26
  Speaker 6: then Gienkanna became sort of his as the FBI like
• 33:30
  Speaker 6: to call blasi later functionary or I like to call enforcer.
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: He became his enforcer and wheelman and then rose through
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: the ranks into the fifties. A Cardo was in charge
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: of Chicago until Giancanna got the Reinsway from him, and
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: via other infighting, Jinkana becomes the boss by sixty. So
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: he had he learned from some of the greatest mobsters
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: of all time. As far as I'm not saying good people,
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: I'm saying good mobsters. He learned from al Capone, he
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: learned from Frank Nitti, he learned from Tonio Cardo. He
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: got to see the commission come up from the ground floor,
• 34:12
  Speaker 6: when Lucky Luciano and Mayer Lansky and the others all
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: put everybody together and the New York Five Families get founded.
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: He got to see the structuralization of it happened. And
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: he was smart. He might not have been well schooled
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: because he I don't think he made a D eighth grade,
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: but he was very wily. One of the things I've
• 34:31
  Speaker 6: you know, I probably might have Sadden this show be
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: four years ago. Is I respect the hell out of
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: him for his ability to evade the government as far
• 34:39
  Speaker 6: as he had, like over one hundred aliases if you
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: add up all the ones he used for criminal stuff
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: to the FBI, to the MO they couldn't track this
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: guy down half the time because he was operated under
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: a new name and it wasn't even you know, big changes.
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: But when you do a search for Sam Giancana or
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: Sam Mooney or Sam Gold or Sam MG and Kanna
• 35:02
  Speaker 6: or uh Santino MG and Kanna, I mean this guy
• 35:06
  Speaker 6: he was the original. Yeah, he was the R Mooney.
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: Sometimes he go by Mooney Giancanna so or yeah, I
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: mean he he is pretty much, I would say, one
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: of the defining mob bosses of of the you know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 6: the developed mafia once it had become a nationwide enterprise.
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: And he.
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: One of the stories I remember. I think this was
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: in the forties. He was already in the mob and
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: he had help from a cargo with a car or
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: at least a Cardo says he actually stole an entire
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: rackets system from a black mobster who had set everything
• 35:46
  Speaker 6: up like gien Kana, just the guy told the guy unfortunately,
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: told about his setup and his rackets, and Giancanna just
• 35:55
  Speaker 6: got a Cardo's okay, and moved in and took them
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: and then spread out across and then he owned Chicago.
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: After that, the rackets were then in the pocket of
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: the mafia, so they would push out any sort of
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: independent influence, any other criminal in the area that was
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: running and just you know, you either gave them a
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: piece or you went. So this guy actually lived, though
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: I can't what the hell was his name? Let me
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: think I know, I remember this gentleman's name. What was
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: his name? Uh?
• 36:26
  Speaker 7: What was it?
• 36:27
  Speaker 8: Thirty?
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: Thank you?
• 36:32
  Speaker 7: No, that's.
• 36:35
  Speaker 8: That one of the black panther was a friend.
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: No, but he was basically kind of like a uh
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: you know, it's got Arnold Rothstein, an independent just someone
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: that didn't have any connection to a family, that had
• 36:52
  Speaker 6: just a really good business going. But like Rothstein got
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: taken out once, like Joe Messeria got taken out, all
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: the old bosses had to go for the new mafia
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: to take over.
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: Rostine definitely not a black name. No, that was that
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: was in New York.
• 37:08
  Speaker 8: Ernold Rusty.
• 37:10
  Speaker 7: Was he based on Hyman roth from the Godfather?
• 37:13
  Speaker 6: I think I think Kimon Roth was a mixture of
• 37:15
  Speaker 6: Maya Landsky and Arnold Rothstein because he did a little
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: bit of both. Have you noticed in The Godfather too,
• 37:20
  Speaker 6: when he tries to go to Israel to flee and
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: get citizenship and they were they say no, that happened
• 37:25
  Speaker 6: to Myer Lansky Lance because he was trying to pull
• 37:28
  Speaker 6: the same thing that Sam Jim Kanna didn't and made
• 37:30
  Speaker 6: the government.
• 37:32
  Speaker 7: But wow, sooner or later, so yeah, I guess Giancana
• 37:38
  Speaker 7: went to Mexico in nineteen sixty six. Yeah, that arrived
• 37:44
  Speaker 7: with a small entourage including body card Dominic butch BLOSSI
• 37:51
  Speaker 7: remember that name, guys, because we were gonna talk about
• 37:54
  Speaker 7: him a lot more. Then that was a Sarah Noveka
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: Mexico probably butchered it. Then went to Mexico City, then Cordova.
• 38:06
  Speaker 7: Then he sneaked into the United States in nineteen seventy
• 38:10
  Speaker 7: to Houston for his gallbladder surgery. And then I guess
• 38:18
  Speaker 7: I don't know if he went back to Mexico or
• 38:20
  Speaker 7: went right back to Chicago, but.
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: Now he jumped around to South American country. Whoever would
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: basically allow him to hide. He kind of did what
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: remember in Carlos Marcello mislabeled the South American country as
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: his point of origin instead of Italy because he didn't
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: want to get sent back because they ended just kicking Guatemala,
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: so he decided he was and then so RFK was like, oh,
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: let me oblige you and to port you back to
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: your home country. So we had to take yeah, and
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: I mean they threw him in the middle of nowhere.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: So he keep taking back to Italy.
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: You know, I can't remember the entire journey back, but
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: I remember at one point he had to get a
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: fisherman to take a boat to go somewhere more civilized
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: speaker to.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: Give me in New Orleans.
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a crazy stroke.
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: And you can even see I think I understand. I
• 39:16
  Speaker 6: understand why people want to make Sam Jenkna responsible because
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: he is such a big, you know, crime figure, and
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: because he and Robert Kennedy did hate each other. Like
• 39:27
  Speaker 6: at the at you saw when Robert Kennedy interviewed him
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: and questioned him, Jenkinna laughed at him and he told me,
• 39:33
  Speaker 6: laughed like a little girl. So there was no love lost.
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: Between the Kennedy's and Jencnna, but he was kind of
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: busy with his own problems. He was dealing with Hoover
• 39:44
  Speaker 6: and like twenty four hour surveillance and trying to save
• 39:48
  Speaker 6: his rackets and a cargo. What's interesting about that, as
• 39:51
  Speaker 6: we will learn later, is there's a lot of mobility
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: in the mafia. And when sam Jenkanna came up, he
• 39:59
  Speaker 6: came up as a car driver, and then a Cardo
• 40:02
  Speaker 6: you know, groomed him as a junior to so Cardi
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: thinking he would always be at the top. Jinkano would
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: always be as loyal man Blasi in the same way
• 40:11
  Speaker 6: Dominic Blazi you mentioned earlier too. He came up later
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: and he came up under gen Con in a similar way.
• 40:17
  Speaker 6: But the mobility changes, so at any time your underling
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: can become your boss. And usually the bosses don't get
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: to stay on unless they're unless they ask really nicely.
• 40:31
  Speaker 6: They become advisors. But usually the bosses don't say as
• 40:35
  Speaker 6: I talked about earlier with Massoia and the other ones
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: that tried to stay up after the commission got formed,
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: they usually don't keep the old timers. They get rid
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: of them and then they become the old timers.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
• 40:49
  Speaker 7: And you know all these these elements, right because I
• 40:54
  Speaker 7: know when like Layman, you know who here I have
• 40:58
  Speaker 7: a JFK podcast, will say, so, who did the CIA,
• 41:02
  Speaker 7: the Mafia, Cuban exiles, the Cubans, the Russians? This that
• 41:12
  Speaker 7: what they kind of failed to mention or realize not mentioned,
• 41:17
  Speaker 7: is that those three groups, the CIA, the Mafia, and
• 41:22
  Speaker 7: the Cuban exiles, had a mutual interest in getting rid
• 41:26
  Speaker 7: of Castro.
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: So it doesn't have to be one of the or
• 41:29
  Speaker 6: the other, right, Yeah, they can't want to get rid
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: of Yeah, by getting rid of JFK, they would have
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: gotten rid of their biggest even though JFK didn't want
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: to go to straight war with them like eisen Well.
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: And that's another thing too. I think it's a misdown.
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: People always think that it was Eisenhower that really wanted
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: to go to war, while he did want to have
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: Patrice Lumumba assassinated, that's another story. Yeah, he did not
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: want to go to war with them. Richard Nixon did.
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: Richard Nixon is the person who is president under Eisenhower
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: who destroyed our relations with Castro because both he and
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: Castro were stubborn, and both he and Castro were tough
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: guys or thought they were, and wouldn't give up an
• 42:11
  Speaker 6: inch to each other. So instead of any diplomacy happening,
• 42:15
  Speaker 6: they just fought and eventually just drove Castro right into
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: the arms of the Russians. Because I think people misunderstand him.
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: Castro was a face man. He wasn't the communist influence
• 42:26
  Speaker 6: of the revolution. He was the leader of the revolution
• 42:30
  Speaker 6: as opposed to his brother Ral who's still alive and
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: in charge of Cuba. Now, that was the voice of
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: the revolution that formed the doctrine of communism with the Russians.
• 42:41
  Speaker 7: Wow, I thought he died like a year ago.
• 42:44
  Speaker 8: I thought he was still he might have.
• 42:45
  Speaker 7: Hey, no, I mean you know, I I trusted her,
• 42:49
  Speaker 7: trust her roll.
• 42:50
  Speaker 6: Castro ninety four still going. Ral is still in And
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: I think he always has been in the way. I
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: think he was the consolieri. Let's say mafia. This is
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: a mafia family.
• 43:05
  Speaker 7: He was.
• 43:06
  Speaker 8: He was always in his brother's ear the entire time.
• 43:09
  Speaker 7: That's a that's actually a really good analogy. So let
• 43:15
  Speaker 7: me start this here. Just Sam g and Connor was
• 43:20
  Speaker 7: killed June nineteenth, nineteen seventy five, Chicago, Illinois. We're going
• 43:24
  Speaker 7: to get there. ROSSELLI was killed August seventh, nineteen seventy six,
• 43:29
  Speaker 7: a little more than a year later in Miami. I
• 43:33
  Speaker 7: guess off the coast of Miami.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: So love me.
• 43:36
  Speaker 6: Hey, I'm real quick, Joe, I wanted to correct myself.
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: So he was up until they elected a president a
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: number of years back. But he is still alive, and
• 43:46
  Speaker 6: he is still an advisor. And he was the first
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: I believe, what the hell did the Communist Party call it?
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: I think like first secretary or something along those lines
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: of the Communist Party, Like he was the first guy.
• 44:02
  Speaker 6: He essentially he was like a guy doing propaganda for them.
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:07
  Speaker 7: And and I I you know, I did a presentation
• 44:11
  Speaker 7: last year at Lancer on all the people that were
• 44:15
  Speaker 7: stuck in Cuban prisons, and Raoul was very you know,
• 44:20
  Speaker 7: Martino talked about seeing him all the time, coming in
• 44:24
  Speaker 7: making sure things were good in the jail with the
• 44:27
  Speaker 7: Americans and the mobsters. Not I don't know if making
• 44:30
  Speaker 7: things good, but he was around maybe yeah, maybe like
• 44:37
  Speaker 7: more like boots on the ground type of than than
• 44:42
  Speaker 7: Fiddel was.
• 44:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think he was. He was the strategist. I
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: think Fiddel was kind of in the way, you know,
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: any if you look at any dictatorship, the face man
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: is usually not necessarily the brains. The face man is
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: the person who everyone loves and believes them, but that
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: doesn't necessarily impart to him any sort of strategy ability
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: or the ability to keep the different factions from turning
• 45:06
  Speaker 6: on each other. That I think was more. You know, everyone,
• 45:09
  Speaker 6: like I said, everyone loved Fidel. He was the underdog,
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: even the US press until he turned against our government.
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: The US press loved Castro, loved that he was overthrowing Batista.
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: They sent reporters to go talk to him, as we know,
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: some being CIA, they sent all sorts of people to
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: go and help because Batista had become so corrupt that
• 45:28
  Speaker 6: couldn't control him anymore.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: And he was treated like a rough star when he
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: visited the United States exactly, you know.
• 45:35
  Speaker 6: So it was only when he turned, and I have
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: no doubt that Raul had part of a hand and
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: that turning.
• 45:43
  Speaker 7: Right, And you know, it's crazy that they could never
• 45:50
  Speaker 7: overthrow him, you know, ninety miles off the shore or whatever,
• 45:53
  Speaker 7: you know what I mean, Like, here's the fact for
• 45:56
  Speaker 7: all the things they've tried to dong goot.
• 46:02
  Speaker 6: Well, just the Castro plots alone, Like, we don't know
• 46:04
  Speaker 6: exactly how many there are reportedly between dozens to hundreds
• 46:09
  Speaker 6: of different at least conceived attempts, but just in the
• 46:13
  Speaker 6: ones they tried that we know that failed. The poison
• 46:16
  Speaker 6: pen failed, The exploding conchshell because he was a scuba
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: diver failed. The putting bachelism in a scuba gift as
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: a present from our ambassador failed. The using a woman
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: that he was sleeping with to kill him and poisoned
• 46:32
  Speaker 6: him failed. I mean, he was no fool.
• 46:37
  Speaker 8: Certainly, it was very wildly kind and Castro was educated.
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: He wasn't just there in his beard shampoo.
• 46:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, to make out yeah, the pillary yeah yeah, to
• 46:50
  Speaker 6: make the pillory powder, to try to take out yeah,
• 46:52
  Speaker 6: or putting out what was it they wanted to put
• 46:55
  Speaker 6: salts or something in his shoes or in his clothing,
• 46:58
  Speaker 6: to try to make all his hair, you know, I
• 46:59
  Speaker 6: mean some of the stuff that actually made it to
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: the movie jes was tried. Like as much as JFK
• 47:05
  Speaker 6: is a work of fiction, that movie, some of the
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: stuff they talk about trying on Castro the Cia really true.
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: I mean with with La Mumba. They ended up sort
• 47:14
  Speaker 6: of second handing it and letting h Mabutu do the
• 47:19
  Speaker 6: dirty work by giving him some questionable intel so he
• 47:22
  Speaker 6: would go and get rid of Lamomba. But you know,
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: Sidney Gottlieb talked about poison in his toothpaste, talked about
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: bombs and his you know, I mean, there were all
• 47:31
  Speaker 6: sorts of ways that could be incidental.
• 47:34
  Speaker 7: Like we talked about, Sidney Gottlieb was involved in this.
• 47:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Sidney Gottlieb was head of I believe Technical Services
• 47:41
  Speaker 6: Division or a branch of Technical Services Division at the time.
• 47:46
  Speaker 7: Essentially Christ christ might have been still in the Isle
• 47:49
  Speaker 7: of Pines at that time. I know he did run
• 47:53
  Speaker 7: the Yeah, yeah TSD at some point, but yeah, wow.
• 47:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Gottlieb was far back. This is yeah, so this
• 48:01
  Speaker 6: is the fifty This is like fifty nine sixty because
• 48:04
  Speaker 6: he got overthrown shortly after the election and then Mabutu.
• 48:10
  Speaker 6: So essentially what happened was is and I'm sorry to
• 48:13
  Speaker 6: go afield, I'll wrap this up. I'm just trying to
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: show people like this what their tactics would be. They
• 48:19
  Speaker 6: wouldn't be This is why both of these crimes. Do
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: not speak of a CIA operative like Frank Sturgis, but
• 48:24
  Speaker 6: the mafia because there they were to guide in the
• 48:28
  Speaker 6: fifties how to kill people. And you want to make
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: it look like an accident. You don't want to send
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: a message. You want to be forgotten, You want no
• 48:36
  Speaker 6: one to ever figure it out, and that person to
• 48:39
  Speaker 6: go away. And the reason why the Cuban Intelligence Service
• 48:43
  Speaker 6: was so good at that was because they were trained
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: by the KGB. That's another reason why Fidel didn't go down,
• 48:49
  Speaker 6: is because he didn't just have you know, the Cuban
• 48:52
  Speaker 6: Intelligence Service was not if it had only been there
• 48:56
  Speaker 6: a few years. The KGB sent trainers the KGB and
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: they have They were doing all sorts of assassination techniques
• 49:03
  Speaker 6: that we didn't even have any clue about in the thirties.
• 49:07
  Speaker 7: And infiltrated almost every Cuban exile group too.
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah, every communist party group you've ever heard of, there
• 49:16
  Speaker 6: is a chance that they are either controlled in the
• 49:22
  Speaker 6: past or currently or could be by Russian intelligence.
• 49:27
  Speaker 8: Now it's not called the KGB anymore.
• 49:28
  Speaker 6: It's called the FSB, which is their FBI, and you know,
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: and they have their external service as well.
• 49:36
  Speaker 8: But it's the same.
• 49:38
  Speaker 6: It hasn't changed, though the name might have changed. It's
• 49:41
  Speaker 6: so they have a much longer history of how to
• 49:44
  Speaker 6: assassinate people to draw from than we do. We were better,
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: I suppose that cover ups, but we.
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: Know they actually succeeded with their assassinations.
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: Well that's the thing. Yeah, yeah, they Yeah, no one
• 50:00
  Speaker 6: does actually know. And and to me, Styalin alone, erasing
• 50:04
  Speaker 6: people from history, there's just a level of insidious that
• 50:08
  Speaker 6: took us decades to gets up. We never even conceived
• 50:13
  Speaker 6: of some of the things that they already had ongoing
• 50:15
  Speaker 6: for years. And that's why I think that like in
• 50:18
  Speaker 6: these cases, these these speak of market crimes, they don't
• 50:21
  Speaker 6: strike me as intelligence hits.
• 50:24
  Speaker 7: Yes, I agree, So let's get back to these hits.
• 50:29
  Speaker 7: You have him about a year and a month is sheparte?
• 50:34
  Speaker 7: This is the murder weapon of sam Gi and Kanna
• 50:39
  Speaker 7: on the left right, and on the right you have
• 50:43
  Speaker 7: him sitting in a pool of his own blood after
• 50:47
  Speaker 7: seven shots to the back of his head and body
• 50:51
  Speaker 7: and mouth and yes, which again another telltale yeah yeah,
• 50:58
  Speaker 7: symbolic And wasn't rel gagged as.
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: Well asphyxiated, Yeah, choked to death and.
• 51:06
  Speaker 7: Something like like in the Sopranos when the guy's the rat,
• 51:10
  Speaker 7: they put something in his mouth, right, as in like
• 51:14
  Speaker 7: the symbolic things to not talk right.
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, no, I think yeah, I think both of
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: them were definitely messages being sent. Like I said, different
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: types of messages. Yes, ROSSELLI was much more over the
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: top because he talked, he had already.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: Talked, and they had to fit his ass into a droom.
• 51:34
  Speaker 6: Well, here's the thing, though, if they really wanted to
• 51:36
  Speaker 6: get rid of him, they would have sealed it and
• 51:37
  Speaker 6: waited it.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: They wanted him found Well, didn't they put holes in it?
• 51:41
  Speaker 6: So it was sink Uh No, it was floating and
• 51:44
  Speaker 6: dumbfounding bay or maybe they maybe they'd have put enough holes.
• 51:48
  Speaker 7: I have the map, guys later in this present.
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: By the way, God damn.
• 51:55
  Speaker 6: Well, And here's the here's the interesting thing, one of
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: the things that I know you have a document for.
• 52:01
  Speaker 6: But the guns were able to be traced back to
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: the Ta Miami gun shop, which were both bought at
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: the same time. One of the guns used for Gincanna
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: was as you'll find out later, it was also the pair.
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: The second in the pair that were bought was used
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: in a different mob murder by one of gen Conna's allies,
• 52:22
  Speaker 6: who I actually don't think had any idea of the connection.
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: But the mob did that all the time too. They
• 52:27
  Speaker 6: would pass guns around, using on multiple crimes, so that
• 52:30
  Speaker 6: there could be no real chain of evidence. You wouldn't
• 52:33
  Speaker 6: know exactly how many times had been used, or how
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: it had been used or right.
• 52:37
  Speaker 7: And I think we when we talk about the statement
• 52:42
  Speaker 7: of the next gentleman who was this kind of housekeeper
• 52:49
  Speaker 7: didn't really hear anything, right, didn't know he went down
• 52:52
  Speaker 7: to the basement to find.
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it was a number. It was as you know,
• 52:58
  Speaker 6: you'll go into It was the silencer plus environmental factors.
• 53:02
  Speaker 6: He was on a separate floor. Jan Conna's house is
• 53:04
  Speaker 6: multi level. It was summer, so the air conditioner, one
• 53:07
  Speaker 6: of those old window units was nice and loud, and
• 53:10
  Speaker 6: his wife was hard of hearing. So they had the
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: Tonight Show turned up and.
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: The sausage was sizzling.
• 53:16
  Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean there were Yeah. I don't think
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: they heard that either, but yeah there was. It was
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: it because people might be like, well, how could he not?
• 53:27
  Speaker 6: You know, think of a big house. I mean it's
• 53:29
  Speaker 6: not a huge house, but think of a multi level house,
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: the doors are closed, the Tonight show is on at
• 53:36
  Speaker 6: you know, hard of hearing level, right, and the air conditioners.
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: Going they're old.
• 53:43
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean yeah, And it's just pointing out again.
• 53:50
  Speaker 7: Would Sam gi and Conna turn his back say he
• 53:55
  Speaker 7: knew Frank Sturgis to make him sausage and peppers. He
• 54:00
  Speaker 7: was very paranoid at this time. Oh, he kind of
• 54:03
  Speaker 7: knew he was a target, like a marked guy like.
• 54:07
  Speaker 6: And what people might not understand about that is it's
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: because of how he went up and down that mobility
• 54:14
  Speaker 6: I talked about earlier. What ended up happening was is
• 54:17
  Speaker 6: you know he basically surpassed Acardo, became boss, then got
• 54:22
  Speaker 6: the year for perjury, then fled, then came back, and
• 54:27
  Speaker 6: now a Cardo has reascended with Gus Alex and Joey
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: Oopa as a triumvirate in charge of Chicago. So what
• 54:36
  Speaker 6: do you think is going to occur? To Sam Giancanna Antoniocardo.
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: I think Gianna was like, oh, I think I get
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: my whole job back, and I think Tony Cardo said no,
• 54:47
  Speaker 6: you can't.
• 54:48
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, it makes a lot of sense to me,
• 54:54
  Speaker 7: a lot of sense. And you know, we'll go into
• 54:59
  Speaker 7: the carda claims in a second.
• 55:01
  Speaker 6: But that's fine, Yeah, no, I was yeah.
• 55:03
  Speaker 7: Oh, actually, this is a document about him, kinda FBI
• 55:07
  Speaker 7: document February twelfth, seventy five, And again g and Kanna
• 55:13
  Speaker 7: would be killed a couple few months later.
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: Right yep.
• 55:20
  Speaker 7: CG T one, which is Chicago.
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: T one right, yeah, code for an informat.
• 55:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, advised that since sam Giancana has returned to the
• 55:31
  Speaker 7: Chicago area, his only confident confidence has been dominic butch
• 55:37
  Speaker 7: Blasi and Charles English. Source advised that both Blasi and
• 55:42
  Speaker 7: English were in Florida as a February seventy five, and
• 55:46
  Speaker 7: that English was contemplating on spending on being a snowbird
• 55:50
  Speaker 7: in Florida on March sixth, so we go ahead, like
• 55:56
  Speaker 7: three and a half weeks seventy five. He one advised
• 56:00
  Speaker 7: that Blasi had been in Florida for two weeks and
• 56:04
  Speaker 7: had returned to Chicago on March second, seventy five. Sources
• 56:10
  Speaker 7: stated that since Blasi's return, he has been with sam
• 56:14
  Speaker 7: Gy and Kana on and off through March sixth, seventy five.
• 56:18
  Speaker 7: CG T one same informant stated that the Blasi that
• 56:24
  Speaker 7: Blasi rose to prominence in organized crime during the late fifties,
• 56:28
  Speaker 7: when he became the general functionary of Tonycardo. Blasi remained
• 56:34
  Speaker 7: with Acardo in this capacity for two years until Giacana
• 56:38
  Speaker 7: succeeded Accardo as the top mafia boss of organized crime
• 56:43
  Speaker 7: in Chicago, which you just eloquently pointed out better than
• 56:49
  Speaker 7: this document.
• 56:51
  Speaker 6: Well, can I say one thing real quick, I just wanted.
• 56:54
  Speaker 7: To interrupt me anytime you want, Oh, well, I try
• 56:57
  Speaker 7: not to.
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: No, please do I need?
• 57:00
  Speaker 8: I need it?
• 57:01
  Speaker 6: But all I wanted to say was and we can
• 57:04
  Speaker 6: see right there what happened. We can see that Blasi's
• 57:09
  Speaker 6: loyalty was for sale. He was brought up just like Giancanna,
• 57:14
  Speaker 6: and as soon as Giancana betrayed him and took over,
• 57:17
  Speaker 6: Blazi jumped on the Giancana train. It didn't matter that
• 57:20
  Speaker 6: Tonya Carter who gave him his place, just like it
• 57:22
  Speaker 6: had mattered to Sam. But he gave him his place.
• 57:24
  Speaker 6: They just superseded him and took over, and then they
• 57:29
  Speaker 6: were in charge for a while. But as we know,
• 57:32
  Speaker 6: things change.
• 57:33
  Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, you don't. You don't want to power struggle,
• 57:37
  Speaker 7: a mutiny or whatever could have possibly happened, And you
• 57:44
  Speaker 7: know in terms of what a cardinal thought could happen.
• 57:48
  Speaker 7: And of course, as we know, in the Mafia, you
• 57:52
  Speaker 7: don't get shot by a stranger.
• 57:54
  Speaker 8: You get shot by friends.
• 57:56
  Speaker 7: You get shot by your friends. We've seen it. It's
• 57:58
  Speaker 7: I know it's in the movie, but that actually is
• 58:03
  Speaker 7: how it goes right.
• 58:05
  Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I think, and that's not Yeah. I understand
• 58:08
  Speaker 6: that it's been used in the service of movies, but
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: that is actually one of the accurate things that actually
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: made it a lot. There's a lot of inaccuracies in
• 58:16
  Speaker 6: the movies, but one of the accurate things is Yeah.
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: I mean, think of it just as a problem outside
• 58:23
  Speaker 6: the mafia. If you're in a group of people and
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: one of those people is a threat to you, aren't
• 58:31
  Speaker 6: you going to use all the implements at your disposal
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: to remove that threat. It doesn't matter if they're your friend,
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: if you get the order. I mean you can see that.
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: I think in one of the later documents that I
• 58:42
  Speaker 6: sent you, they said, once you get the order, you
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: have to do it. It doesn't matter if it's your mother. Yeah,
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: you have to go kill them or they'll kill you.
• 58:50
  Speaker 7: Good luck, Yeah, saying no, I'm good with that order.
• 58:53
  Speaker 7: I'm not going to do it like good luck saying not.
• 58:56
  Speaker 8: We'll find someone who will if you want.
• 58:59
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but I'm saying if you if you said nah,
• 59:02
  Speaker 7: I'm good. I don't want to take up this hit
• 59:07
  Speaker 7: like guess what you're going down to.
• 59:10
  Speaker 6: Well, and not not to the extent of murder, but
• 59:13
  Speaker 6: we can see even today that such influence can be
• 59:17
  Speaker 6: exerted over people to do things they never would do,
• 59:20
  Speaker 6: right if they're in debt or they owe the mafia.
• 59:24
  Speaker 7: And of course this is before cameras were everywhere. You
• 59:29
  Speaker 7: can't get around without you know.
• 59:31
  Speaker 6: Being yeah, yeah, yeah, actually yeah yeah.
• 59:37
  Speaker 7: It was kind of like the best time for the mafia.
• 59:41
  Speaker 7: So continuing on this document, uh, this following investigation was
• 59:51
  Speaker 7: conducted by William Thurman, Chicago, Illinois. As you talk to
• 59:55
  Speaker 7: Mary Neeland administrative assistant blah blah blah blah. Neilan produced
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 7: an index card from their files reflecting that Dominic Blase
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 7: spelled wrong had his real estate license for the state
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 7: of Illinois. That's not really should have been included that sorry,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 7: on April fifteenth, so now we're getting closer to the June.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: End date for g and Conna.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 7: Right CGT one advised that Dominic Blassi and Charles English,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 7: another hoodlum, continued to be in regular contact with Sam
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 7: g and Conna source stated that Blasi has again recently
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 7: returned to the Chicago area after spending approximately ten days
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 7: in Florida. Again specific and we're going to get to
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 7: Blasi and his informing in a second on June fifth,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 7: seventy five, Now we're what twelve days away, you know,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 7: a week and a half ish. C G. T One
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 7: advised that Dominic Blasi had gone to Houston, Texas to
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 7: visit Sam Giankatta, who was in the hospital recuperating from
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 7: a gallbladder operation, which she talked about and extenuating circumstances
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 7: surrounding the removal of the gallbladder complications. Forwarding a little
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 7: to Joseph de Percio. So, Joseph de Persio, correct me
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 7: if I'm wrong, Carline. He was kind of like the
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 7: I don't want to say housekeeper, I call them caretaker,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 7: A caretaker.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 6: Like not a butler, but a friend of the family
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 6: who jin kinda trusted to run his house. Right.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: He raked the leaves well.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 6: He went for walks with him, He made food for him,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 6: you know, he drew a bat. You know, like I said,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 6: the closes that you're going to get to a butler
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 6: in the.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: He was like George Senator was for Ruby.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah. Approximately thirty years La Baby Oil, Joe Depercio was
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 7: out of a job and as such Samjay and Conna's
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 7: father asked him if he would like to take care
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 7: of sam Ji and Conna's house. I maintained the lawns,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 7: he got all right landscaping, and perform odd jobs around
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 7: Sam Jay and Conna's house and make repairs as necessary.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 7: Joe de Percio consented to this and as such has
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 7: been working for g and Conna since this time in
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 7: the capacity described above. Joe DePersio began residing in Ja
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 7: Connah's Oak Park residence approximately two years following the death
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 7: of Rose Flood, who was taking care of the house
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 7: for Gian Connah. So she was kind of like the
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 7: lady who was doing that.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 6: She died.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 7: I don't I don't know anything about her, but.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 6: He just sort of assumed him and his wife assumed
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 6: the role to add to what he was already.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 7: Doing for right so him to Persial and his wife
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 7: were living upstairs and g and Connor was living downstairs kind.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 13: Of like in the basement, am I no, he well,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 13: I'm sure he had, you know, a bedroom somewhere upstairs,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 13: but for the most part, yeah, the basement was his
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 13: base of operations.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 6: It was where he met people. As we know, it's
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 6: where he was found dead.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: You know, it goes into the persia talking about how
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 6: and how you brought up paranoia earlier. Jen kinda understood
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 6: what a lot of people didn't at the time. That
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 6: probably Tonio Cardo also understood that mobility was in play again.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 6: If gen Conna could get his health back and could
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 6: get people that were still loyal like Nicoletti and other
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 6: people that were functional in the mafia, he could have
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 6: tried to stage a takeover or at least try to
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 6: convince Gus Alex and joy Upa to get rid of
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 6: a cargo. Because a Cardo had fallen once, so there's
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 6: no reason why I couldn't have fallen again.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 8: And I'm sure that occurred to the both of them.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: Well, they didn't waste much time. I mean, I mean
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: if oh.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I think Cardo kind of landed. He got
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 6: into his head. I'm going to need to send somebody
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 6: to take care of this guy.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: And if he's still in Houston on the twelfth or
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: whatever it was and he's killed on the seventeenth, I
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: mean might they must have got his ass right right
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: when he got back like.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 6: That's that's why I think it could have to do
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 6: with the talking. That probably has a part in it.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 6: But the bigger part was he could not be allowed
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 6: to make roots again right back over right right.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 7: He was a possible threat, and we know how the
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 7: mafia deal was possible threats. Let me continue here, I
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 7: guess Richard Flood and.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: Real quick too.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: They probably in that document, they probably knew that gian
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: Kana was planning on coming back because Blasi had already
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: returned to Chicago in like April or May, right, mm hmm,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: So was keeping them informed, right, He probably told a
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: card everybody, Look, you know, as soon as as soon
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: as Mooney is done in Houston, he's coming back, you know.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, listen, you got to pick the winning
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 7: side if you're Blasi, right, oh.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, or else should go down with the losing side,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 6: right exactly.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: I'm sure they had a good run in Mexico and
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: South America. They probably had the time with their lives
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 5: down there together.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 7: And h.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: And and the thing is that it's a different story.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 6: Blazi is actually, if you think about it, an informant
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 6: of two levels, because not only is he informing back
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 6: to the Acardo Cabal with Gus, Alex and Ayupa, he's
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 6: also informing to the FBI. Yeah, so he's telling everybody
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 6: Sam g and Conna's location and what's not always you know,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 6: something to be as you can save him some of
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 6: the FBI bides. He's like, oh, I can't say anything specific,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 6: but here's a bunch of biographical information about him, what
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 6: his family's been up to. I won't tell you where
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 6: he is, but I'll tell you every other detail about
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 6: his life.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 7: Let's get to this document. I'm gonna skip ahead a
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 7: little bit. Let me see, make sure I'm not missing anything, Okay.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 7: Joe Depercio and his wife were present in the g
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 7: and Conna house on the evening gian Conna was murdered.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 7: G and Conna had returned to Oak Park, Illinois, the
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 7: day before he was murdered the day before June nineteenth.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 7: I might have had it wrong with two days to recuperate,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 7: but blah blah blah. The evening g and Conna was murdered.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 7: Joe to Persia's wife had fixed gi and Conna some
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 7: chicken for his dinner, and he was in the process
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 7: of eating the chicken in the upstairs family TV room
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 7: when his daughter, Francine to Palma, her husband Jerry, and
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 7: their young daughter came to the g and Cotton residents
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 7: to visit.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 6: Well.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 7: Uh, Sam g and Conna finished his dinner. Jerry de
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 7: Palma asked if there was any corn beef in the
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 7: house that was.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: Instructed, Is there any corn beef in that.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 7: And proceeded to make him his ticket corn beef sandwich.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 7: He got a sandwich. He returned to the table where
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 7: g and Conna was finishing his dinner. Okay, so gian
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 7: Conna is eating upstairs, He's not in the basement. The
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 7: dinner completed sometime after seven, Sam Giancanna, Francine di Palma,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 7: Jerry di Palma, and Sam gen Conna's granddaughter went down
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 7: to the basement area, where they all remained until approximately
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 7: ten thirty. Right, so you're thinking this is kind of
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 7: like family time, I imagine, right with his granddaughter, probably
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 7: his last moments his granddaughter at this time. Blah, blah.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 7: Joe Depercia went over to Mooney and accompany gann G
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 7: and Conna on a walk. Gian Conna had asked de
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 7: Percio to accompany him as Giucanna was afraid he might
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 7: fall down, right, like he was very right, right, he
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 7: had just come out of surgery. He needed someone to
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 7: kind of hold him, like by the shoulder as he walked, right,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 7: make sure he doesn't fall that's still weak from the
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 7: recent surgery. Giancanna took to Percio's arm and the two
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 7: proceeded to the corner of Filmore in the next block,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 7: shortly after noting the dripping water.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 6: So this is another okay, so this is yeah. I
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 6: think it might be two different nights. I think there's
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 6: the family night the night before, and then the next
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 6: day he went for the walk with Blasi, okay, and
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 6: then and then they went for like an early evening walk.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 6: I think it's like seven ish or six ish, and
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 6: he goes for the walk or not, I'm sorry, not
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 6: Blasi to Persia. He goes for the walk with the
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 6: Persia the next day. So people that you know, well,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 6: there were tons of mobsters over because we've heard people
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 6: say this, there were mobsters appearing in his house and
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 6: going in and out. No, Charlie English and Dominic Blasi
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 6: were the only two people seen anywhere near his house.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 6: And we have confirming sources because we have the FBI
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 6: surveillance on Acardo and the FBI surveillance on Giancanna and
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 6: Johnny Roselli, so they're all under surveillance. Who comes and
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 6: goes as reported, not necessarily that it went up the
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 6: chain sometimes because they didn't want to give away their informants,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 6: but somebody was watching. So if a major mafia figure
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 6: besides English, Blasi or Giancana made an appearance, there would
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 6: have been a note, somebody would have noticed one of
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 6: the witnesses upstairs, the FBI outside someone. I think that's
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 6: important because it's the window around when he died that
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 6: a lot of people don't realize was so small. And
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 6: the knowledge required to be at that house in that
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 6: thirty five to forty five minute window when no one
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 6: was around, in the safest place he thought he could be.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 7: Was perfect.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 6: But only two people that we can prove had that knowledge,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 6: and that would be Charles English or Blasi. Those are
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 6: the only two that came and went without For instance,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 6: the jin kana.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 6: The reason he used the basement as his sort of
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 6: base operations is the back door went right to the outside.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 8: He could come and go.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 6: Out of the house with no one even knowing he
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 6: was leaving, and so could anyone else who.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 8: Knew about that entrance.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 6: But the only people that came in out of that
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 6: entrance were Blasi and English and Gikana had to perzy,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 6: of course, but you had to have that knowledge to
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 6: come and go unseen. As someone just said, Fiorini's hard
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 6: to miss. Yeah, he's a pretty big guy. Sturgis wasn't
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 6: just gonna wander by what anyone seeing him. And Hoover
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 6: wasn't a fan of the CIA, by the way. He
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 6: would have loved to have caught one of their people
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 6: trying to do something legal and splashed it across. Same
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 6: with a Cardo like people, as we'll get into eventually.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 6: You know, people do want to say that Tonyo Cardo
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 6: personally or any major figure personally did themselves. Hoover would
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 6: have loved that. He would have arrested them immediately and
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 6: then thrown them the next day in front of the papers.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 6: So there's no reason to hide it unless you're an informant.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 7: Right, unless you want more continuing information. Right. Depercio cleaned
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 7: up the mess in the dining room after the dinner
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 7: and stacked the wet acoustical tiles.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, there was a leak basically that Jinkana and Blasi noticed,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 6: so we called down Joe to take the tile out,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 6: fixed out and find out where leake was coming from.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 6: Was come from the shower, I believe, and he did,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 6: you know, his best to repair it so that Sam
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 6: could keep having this talk with Blasi, right.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 7: Uh. De Percio then went upstairs and joined his wife
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 7: in the family room, located on the first level of
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 7: the house. He left Mooney and Blasi alone in the
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 7: basement dining room on the way into the family room,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 7: and de Persio closed a sliding door between the stairs
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 7: and the upstairs kitchen. He joined his wife at approximately
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 7: eleven twenty pm and watched at a very high volume,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 7: that's my addition, part of the Johnny Carson Show with
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 7: for approximately one half hour, because a half hour, at
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 7: which time Joe Deblasio stood up.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 6: And looked to Persia.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 7: It can be easy, though, yeah, Blasi, Yeah, I know,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 7: a skinny.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 6: It's easy.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 8: It's easy to make a little mistake.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 7: Hey, I'll go I'm a don't don't ding me for
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 7: that comment.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 6: Sounds like the sopranos is like, well, you know, it's
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 6: just I love it when they intentionally misused words and
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 6: relatives do that.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 7: Oh my god, it's it's a genius.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 14: Uh uh Carmine, Yeah yeah, Junior because son yeah yeah
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 14: yeah yeah intelligence, Yes, the best lines.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 7: Soprano fans will get this. Uh. De Percio then went
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 7: to the doorway, which door had been earlier closed and
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 7: he and his wife wished to retire, opened the door
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 7: and called downstairs to Mooney. G and Conna did not answer,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 7: and then he proceeded downstairs to see if g and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 7: Conna was all right. Right, of course, he's covering surgery.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 7: Once down stairs, DePersio noted that gen Conna was not
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 7: in the basement dining area, and that sliding door between
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 7: the basement kitchen and the basement dining room was partially closed,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 7: permitting him to see g and Conna was lying on
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 7: the basement kitchen floor. I showed you this picture earlier.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 7: De Persio slid open the door and noted that g
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 7: and Conna was lying on the basement kitchen floor, face
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 7: up with blood underneath his head. He also noted that
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 7: on the stove in the kitchen area, with the gas
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 7: burner still turned on full blast, still cooking them sausage
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 7: and peppers, with a small frying pan containing a tali
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 7: and sausage suspinch.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 6: Now, I just want to interject one thing real quick,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 6: and you'll go on in the statement and it'll further
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 6: support this. But notice no mention of smoke. He didn't
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 6: come into a smoky basement, which means the meal couldn't
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 6: have been on that long. It could only have been
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 6: on maybe at most five or ten minutes, so he
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 6: was alive maybe fifteen, let's say. But there was no fire,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 6: This grease hadn't spilled over, and it wasn't filled with smoke,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 6: so he hadn't been cooking that very long. And this
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 6: is a half hour window, and the last person seen
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 6: alive with him was dominant Blasi, who just happened to
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 6: excuse himself without telling anybody and leave.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 6: I'm not saying that that necessarily proves on its own
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 6: that Blasi is responsible, but it's a very small window.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 6: There's only one person there, and he for some reason
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 6: doesn't say goodbye to anybody before he leaves, right.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 7: Right, So after he found g and Kanna, he turned
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 7: off the gas in the frying pan and took the
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 7: pan off the burner, and then the process burned his hand.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 7: He then called upstairs to his wife, told her not
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 7: to come downstairs, okay, like, don't see this bloody mess,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 7: and to immediately call an ambulance since Mooney had been hurt. Sorry,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 7: I'm not saying yeah always. He immediately called for an
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 7: ambulance and Mooney had been hurt. He felt Mooney's pulse
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 7: and could find none. A few minutes later, ambulance driver
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 7: arrived and Percio was instructed by the driver that Mooney
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 7: was dead and he had been shot in the head. So,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 7: so two people were killed in the basement or or
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 7: Mooney is Moon is okay they're referring to Okay, I
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 7: was getting that confused. Well, I'm glad the.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 6: One of the one hundred names.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 7: Depercio noted that the last person, to the best of
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 7: his knowledge, to see g and Kanna alive was none
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 7: other than Blossi, and that Blassi was the most trusted
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 7: of g and Connon's associates. It was very rare for
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 7: g and Conna to be visited by anyone at night,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 7: especially Blossi, who rarely was at the house in the evening.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 7: Blossi generally visited g and Conna during the daylight hours.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 7: In the evening hours, if g and Conna wanted to
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 7: get in touch with someone, he would slip out the
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 7: back door and make a phone call. Depercio also noted
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 7: that on the evening g and Conna was murdered, he
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 7: did not see Chuck English at the residence and has
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 7: not seen Chuck English for approximately four months. Chuck England
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 7: generally visited the house during the daytime as well. After
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 7: g and Conna was murdered, Blossi stopped by the G
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 7: and Conna residents many days later. And this is a
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 7: long document, so I'm like clipping the most relevant parts
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 7: of it. Well, well, we can link in the description
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 7: or something. And many days later asked to pursue how
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 7: things were going, Yeah, I'm sure.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 6: And then yeah, the bills thing I think too is
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 6: at least also some more interesting information, because where did
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 6: Blasi get all the money to pay for all of
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 6: Sam g and Kana's expenses?
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 7: Right? It sounds like they're trying to keep him quiet.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah, person, And then yeah, now this, Yeah, they are
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 6: the person.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 7: You have explained to Blasi that many bills were mounting
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 7: at the house of Sam gien Conna and he could
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 7: not pay them bless. He asked that all bills at
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 7: the house be forwarded to him and that he would
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 7: take care of them. What a nice guy, I.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 6: Know, a goodness of his heart.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 7: Apparently, Yeah to Perco recognized the voice of the caller.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 7: I guess he was called and kind of threatened. Yeah,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 7: and he thought he of being an individual he thought
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 7: he knew, however, he declined to further identify him. Another
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 7: important sentence. Depressio, the housekeeper or whatever you want to
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 7: call him, knew who called him. However, he declined to
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 7: further identify him.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 6: Chances are I would imagine that with someone in the mafia.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 7: I would bet almost everything I have on that as
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 7: a result of the telephone call, he and his wife
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 7: have been apprehensive about remaining in the Gencana residence. Oh shit,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 7: DePersio has had the telephone number the Gencana residence changed
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 7: and experienced no further threatening, threatening phone calls. I think
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 7: this is part of the same document relative to Judith
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 7: can Exner to person to Persio advised that he had
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 7: seen her several times at the Gancanna residence, as he
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 7: had seen many of the women g and Conna brought
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 7: to the house. In conclusion, to Persio was one of
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 7: the opinion that whoever killed g and Conna was an
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 7: individual who was very close to g and Conna and
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 7: was fully aware of the layout of the house. In addition,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 7: knew g and Conna spent the majority of his time
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 7: in the.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 6: Basement, so they knew the house, they knew his habits,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 6: and he was totally disarmed around them. Yes, only two
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 6: people qualify, and only one was there.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 7: And Frank Sturgis is not one of them. Just a hunch,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 7: just a hunch.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 6: Well now let's you know, and yeah, now let's compare
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 6: with this evidence that we've put together in some of
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 6: the discussion to that claim. So what would have to
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 6: have happened was somehow Frank Sturgis was utterly Now he
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 6: wasn't trusted by him, so he can't be the guy.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 6: He didn't get the weapon, that was the mob. We
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 6: traced the gun back to the Tamam gunshop with the
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 6: mob bought it.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 4: That was the mob.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 6: There was no talk of retribution afterwards. There was just
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 6: talk of a job well done from informants inside the mafia.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 6: Nobody complained except Nicoletti, and then he went. Later on,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 6: I think all that Giancanna loyalists went after gen Conna went,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 6: that was their opportunity to purge anybody left with any
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 6: because apparently, according to one of the sources, Nicoletti complained
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 6: to a cargo and didn't think it was right that
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 6: they killed him because it was sick and he said,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 6: you know, he wasn't gonna take over, which was probably nonsense.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 6: But you know, there were people who still did support
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 6: Gienconna and that's why he had to go. And Blasi
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 6: is the perfect instrument. However, they had no idea he
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 6: was recording to the FBI at the same time. So
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 6: some people might say, well, why would the FBI hide it, Well,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 6: the same reason they hid clan members crimes during the sixties,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 6: to keep their informants inside the clan, because Hoover didn't care.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 6: It wasn't about morality, it was about controlling and destroying these.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 7: Groups and intelligence.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, no, but I mean too in order to
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 6: do that, like you could never because they were secret societies.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 8: You could never.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 6: Get an easy way to infiltrate them. You had to
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 6: use usually people inside. I mean, you know, yeah, there
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 6: are there are ways to if you wait years and
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 6: years and years, but they needed to get at them quickly.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 6: So you know, you either drum up some charges on
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 6: somebody or watch them long enough and they'll come in.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: A crime and squeeze money on the insane.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 8: Same like yeah, and same like the mafia.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 6: Once they got their hooks in you, Just like the FBI,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 6: they never come out.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 7: Yeah, very true. And then you have like fucking five
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 7: pages of documents that are like all blacked out. But
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 7: on November eighteen seventy five, BLASI, chief suspect in this investigation,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 7: appeared before the Cook County Grand Jury and vocif privilege.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 7: He was directed to return on December twelfth.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 8: The Fifth Amendment privilege yes.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 6: To not which if anyone doesn't know what that means,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 6: that is the right to not self incriminate that you
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 6: committed a crime.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 4: I pleaded the Fifth on the grounds need.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 8: Me exactly.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 6: So, yeah, certainly wasn't Frank Sturgis, and I would challenge
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 6: anyone to produce evidence that it wasn't Blasi. If I
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 6: am a betting man, I'm gonna pick the guy who
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 6: evidence shows was there, the surveillance confirms was there. So
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 6: we have witnesses in the Parisio and his wife. He
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 6: doesn't come around. That's another thing. It's out of character
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 6: that he'd be there as well at night. Why did
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 6: he go at night? Well, that's when nobody else would
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 6: be there, and the caretaker might have even helped. They
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 6: were asleep by then, but by chance they're watching the
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 6: Late show, right or the tonight show, I should say,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 6: with Johnny Cars.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: Apparently.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it just it's we talked about this off air.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 7: It's when you have an audience as big as the
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 7: podcast we referenced has and you just throw things out
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 7: there like that and you maybe get a million views
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 7: with no evidence.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 4: And well, they do this shoot all the time, Joe,
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 4: that's why it's called stories.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 15: Yeah, they don't go through documents, you know, but it
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 15: is irresponsible and we wanted to kind of correct the record.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 5: And you know what I saw today Joe on Facebook?
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 5: Tell me, all right, so these guys, these two a
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 5: holes we're talking about here as you guys know, we're
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: in Dallas two years ago and we're very rude and
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 5: disrespectful during Robert Groden's little deal, right, hm, he's getting
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 5: his award or giving.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 7: His speech's.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was during Robert Groden's talk that might have been.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 7: It was. I'm sorry I wasn't there. I'm not gonna
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 7: I was, and I don't remember, so I deferred.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 5: To Rock Joe was there, probably drunk convalescing from his
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 5: scooter fall.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah, right, loss of blood and a couple of drinks.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 7: We'll do it, yeah for sure.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I saw this thing they had on there.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 5: I guess Kenneth over at Lancer posted it them to
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 5: Jabroni's and Robert Grodin are going to be presenting together
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 5: about the jfk assassination in the media or the movies
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 5: or Hollywood or something. Yeah, So they go from disrespecting
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 5: Robert Croden two years ago and being totaled dicks to
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 5: now everybody's all hunky dory, happy to go family and
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 5: they're going to be presenting together.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: This year. I just don't get it, just don't get it.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 6: Well, as you know, it doesn't matter to me. I
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 6: have presented a Lancer. I am presented a lancer. But
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 6: I want evidence and I want us to get further
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 6: in this case. So I really don't care what anybody
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 6: says unless they have some evidence. I mean, if you
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 6: want to, you know, shoot the breeze forever and you
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 6: want to keep this a parlor game for forty more years, yeah,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 6: you can do that. And you want to get viewers
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 6: and you want to get people to pay attention, so
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 6: you use name recognition instead of evidence.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 7: You can do that.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 6: You're not going to find out anything.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 8: You just wasting everyone's time.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 7: We have someone very notable, h the unelected representative doing
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 7: that right now. But that's all I'm going to say
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 7: about that quote Forrest.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, yeah, people, everyone's free to have their
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 6: There's something I said. I think, man, this Robbill remember
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 6: this because this was maybe or you might not because
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 6: it's been some damn long, but it was like ten
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 6: or eleven years ago, and somebody was talking about what
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 6: they believe, and that's what I believe. This gentleman, you
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 6: refer to earliers that I believe, Well, believe what you like,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 6: Prove what you can. I don't care what you believe,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 6: and no one should. I believe.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 8: That's why I don't lead with I believe.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, nobody cares what any of us believe.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 7: It's thank you, Scott, it was it was Deborah Conway
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 7: who was speaking.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 8: During that.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure it was a Scott.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 7: Scott is there with his notepad everything. I trust him more.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 4: You don't make me find the damn clip.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 6: She could have been.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 4: It's a great clip.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 8: I mean, could have been a combination.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 7: It's a great clip. That's what I remember. But I again,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 7: it was like a long day.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 6: And and I think unfortunately too, it's also not only
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 6: a disservice to the public, but it's a disservice to
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 6: all the people who put the work in and actually
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 6: go through the evidence and then show people. And you
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 6: have your story, well that's great that you have your story,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 6: but that doesn't make story true. It's it's just your
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 6: There's lots of people, as we've discussed before JVB, that
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 6: have a story, but guess what, that doesn't make it true.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 6: Lots of people over the years, how many times have
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 6: we seen things moreph as far as myths, you know
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 6: where it starts out coming from one side and twenty
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 6: years later somebody else has repeated it, but now they've
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 6: added a bunch of other things to it, like the
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 6: like Charning and his witness kill Liss that went to
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 6: the hundreds of people like Okay, so to hide one murder,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 6: you're gonna commit dozens of others.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 8: And that's what nobody's gonna notice.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 6: All those families of people just dying randomly are not
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 6: gonna HU, that's weird. No, you just you can make
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 6: the claim, but you need to prove it. Extraordinary claims
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 6: require extraordinary evidence.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 4: I may have the audio here Joe hold On, Oh great,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 4: this is great.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 16: There along with my girlfriend Derek Huntley from America's Really
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 16: Old Stories, you are about to hear the most listened
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 16: to exclusively jfk Assassination podcast and one of my favorites,
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 16: the Lone Gunman Podcast. Now here's Rob and Joe.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 4: No, that wasn't it. Damn.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 8: Sorry, that's fine.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but yeah, myth's got to be busted. I mean,
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 7: you have to have some level of responsibility, uh, just
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 7: to not throw shit out there on a whim because
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 7: you have a hunch.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 6: Do you want to be back going to politics? Yeah,
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 6: because that's why they seem to do that.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 7: The most try going to Larry Hancock, who was very accessible,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 7: and and throw some shiit theory at him without a document.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 7: You know, I mentioned this before, Ruby, I have a
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 7: don't may review on the way. Uh uh, you know
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 7: what I mean. He's he's not gonna accept it. You
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 7: gotta have a documents.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And we should, you know, I mean we should.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 6: I think we do, and I think there are people
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 6: that do. But respect your audience and your supporters enough
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 6: to tell them that sometimes you don't know because you
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 6: can't know everything, and don't just guess unless you tell
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 6: them like I mean, he did at least say I
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 6: have no evidence for this true. But I bet you
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 6: he doesn't say that every time, and most people don't
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 6: say that every time when they just make wild speculations.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 6: It's not even so much it's that anybody's doing it
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 6: as the problem. This is just you know, you guys
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 6: have chosen to focus on this version of it. But
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 6: we've seen this, you know, people just calling out and
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 6: it's name recognition. He didn't pull Frank Sturgis out of
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 6: a hat. You notice they never say, you know this
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 6: guy who we've never heard of, unless there's some evidence
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 6: when it when they use the big names.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 8: That's sort of well, I don't want to do any
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 8: real research.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 6: I'm just gonna throw a big name out there and
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 6: hopefully people like the snuff that it'll fly.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 6: Hence, and if you don't mind, I would like to
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 6: do I'll briefly go over it and you can add
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 6: because you guys are the ones that came across at first.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 6: The Acardo thing, which is another one of my favorite
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 6: you know, in the vein of what we were just
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 6: discussing about the surgis claim some people, including from one
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 6: article you sent me from NBC, claiming law enforcement that
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 6: a lot of law enforcement think this, which I think
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 6: is questionable. I'd like to see the law enforcement people
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 6: that were asked if they believe in this or not.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 6: But some people claim that Tonyacardo himself killed sam Gi
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 6: and Kanna in person, which there are no witnesses for,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 6: no surveillance of him or surveillance of the house picked
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 6: that up. And he was a sixty nine year old
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 6: heavy smoker who had been admitted to the hospital roughly
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 6: a month before the death of Giancana for stomach issues
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 6: that probably didn't happen. I would say ninety five to
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 6: or more percent certainty Tony, because first of all, you
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 6: become the boss, so you don't have to do hits.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 6: That's why you become the boss, the messy work. So
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 6: a boss is not going to at the age of
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 6: sixty nine with health issues somehow escape notice of everybody
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 6: around him and everybody at Giancana's house kill him in
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 6: the half hour window, Like how could he know? It
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 6: would have to be somebody that was there, and there's
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 6: only one person there, and it wasn't Tony a cargo,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 6: It wasn't anybody really well known, which is why Blasi
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 6: probably has flown under the radar for so long and
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 6: why only a few people ever picked up on him.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 6: And then I think other people did this too, But
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 6: I think I tried to deep dive that night in
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 6: a way that a lot of people hadn't done yet,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 6: just to show it's like, we have this window, guys.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 8: It's like with Oswald.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 6: The reason why it was a probable conspiracy and why
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 6: everyone should feel comfortable being able to say that is
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 6: because if Oswald acted alone, he's only got seventy two
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 6: hours because he can't know ahead of time. He can
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 6: only know when the paper tells him same thing with Giancanna.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 6: Half hour window, find me the murderer beyond the other
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 6: guy that was there. Go ahead, you could be right,
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 6: I could, They could be right. I can be wrong.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 8: But can they say that?
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 10: Now?
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 8: Can they say they're wrong? Now we'll see.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 7: Probably not, and I think they should. And I think
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 7: the mark of a great researcher saying I thought this
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 7: once because of this, but now I think this because
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 7: of this, And I waschers, I know, but I'm saying,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 7: like the best ones.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 7: So let's go back to Blasi in nineteen sixty four,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 7: February twenty fourth. To put into context, this is like
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 7: ten days after Marina got back from the Warrant Commission
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 7: right FBI document to direct the Jagahova from Chicago. Samuel
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 7: MG and Conna Chance. This is the best wording chance
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 7: interview interview.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: By chance.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 6: It was just a coincidence.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 7: They were in into each other at the Delhi right,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 7: Oh yeah, the Peter Pan restaurant, the center of G
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 7: and Kanna at westside Peter Pan Restaurant. Blasi is pleasant
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 7: mood and topics of discussion general nature. However, following points
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 7: of interest determined through interview Blasi and indicated Giancana more
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 7: convinced than ever that he is the subject of twenty
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 7: four hours surveillance. We talked about that again is from
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 7: the same document. On the right hand side, A chance
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 7: interview was held with Butch Blassi, Lieutenant of Samuel Giancana, Chicago,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 7: top Hoodlum. Interview developed Giancana is convinced he is of
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 7: subject of constant surveillance. Blasi indicated Kana and his associates
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 7: are quote legitimate businessman end quote, and that he Blasi
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 7: not included in the recent Hawaiian trip of Giancana since
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 7: quote he does not make that kind of money end quote.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 7: Blazi was friendly and indicated he had no objections to
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 7: talking again to bureau agents. Look, Lazi was friendly, indicated
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 7: he had no objections to talking to the FBI. This
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 7: is more than ten years before gen Connor was.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 6: Killed, which showed you that he was already resentful that
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 6: he wasn't making that kind of money even though he
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 6: was an enforcer and driver.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 8: For gen Conna.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 5: And he probably did throw up the finger quotes where
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 5: legitimate businessman boy exactly, and it.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 4: Looked me out of the goddamn hawaite.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 6: But I think that's just one of many, because as
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 6: he does the other interviews, you know, he starts to
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 6: talk about in one where Gen Kanna mistreats his family
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 6: and doesn't take care of them like you should as
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 6: well as he takes care of the women. And that
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 6: was having probably built up. And he Blazi had already
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 6: switched sides from Akardo to Giancanna when Giancanna was ascendant,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 6: but when Jankanna fell, he still wanted to remain in
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 6: the mafia, and eventually a Cardo became a senatence to
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 6: given so he had to work for Cardo and Aopa
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 6: and Gus Alex.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 4: And they might have took care of him a little
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 4: better than Gen exactly.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 6: And Ginkana was sick, he probably realized it was a dream.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 6: Chances are Sam could not get back to the top again.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 6: It would have been a monumental thing if he were
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 6: to somehow recover and then reclaim after a decade, almost.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 4: He would have had to take out a cardinal and Aopa, and.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 6: Which was almost impossible. The only people, Like I said,
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 6: what's interesting to me too is I think Nicoletti was
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 6: part of this purge and I think so was ROSSELLI.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 6: I think that Chicago and New York and the others
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 6: had had enough and they had to cut all ties
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 6: that could lead to the Castro plots that could lead
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 6: to the FBI having anything on them. And Giancanna had
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 6: talked or not Jikana, but Reseli had talked, so they
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 6: knew it. Talks some more and they knew that he
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 6: had no money, He's living with a sister, He's only
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 6: got a Social Security check. They've cut him out already.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 6: It's probably his name and Sam's name that kept them
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 6: alive a little longer than the average person would have been.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 6: But if this would have been a low grade soldier
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 6: they've got smoked in a week, there wouldn't have even
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 6: been a second thought.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 8: They would have just got killed.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 6: But these guys had some connections functional in the mafia,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 6: so like they I don't think it's a coincidence that
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 6: they gave they had Nicoletti drive to go kill August Mianchi,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 6: who was a gambler that the mafia ended up killing
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 6: with the gun that came from the pair, and the
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 6: other one was used on Sam gin Kana. I think
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 6: that that's a way to keep Nicoletti quiet that Oh yeah,
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 6: you're gonna go, You're gonna go say something. Well, just
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 6: so happens. You drove the guy who murdered somebody else
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 6: with the partner gun that we bought this one.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 4: With, and back then, you know they.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 5: Kind of lived by the oath, you know, well, I mean,
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 5: you just couldn't kill a maid a made guy with
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 5: that some kind of approval first or else you know,
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 5: you're risking retribution, some massive retribution, like you say, and
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 5: the one that could, uh you know, order that is
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 5: it card It's.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 6: Got to it's got to be the bosses. It's either
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 6: got to be a Cardo, Ayopa or Gus Alex. Gus
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 6: Alex is interesting because he's kind of like Maya Lansky.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 6: He isn't a Sicilian, so he can never be the boss,
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 6: but he can advise and he can run operations. So
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 6: gus Alex was sort of like the odd man out,
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 6: but he was still part of sort of a triumvirate
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 6: as where Ayoopa was the boss and the Cardo.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 8: Was advising him. So I think it was a combination.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 6: I think Aopa was young enough and liked enough, but
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 6: not considered smart enough to run the show.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 4: And a Cardo is in his ear exactly.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's kind of like Tom Hagen and The Godfather, right,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 7: the yeah CONSILII that yep, he didn't have You can't
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 7: be made. If you don't have one hundred Italian blood,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 7: you can't be made.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 8: And back then, yeah, they totally obeyed that, even in Italy.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 6: Now there's funny enough that brought up the Sopranos, but
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 6: basically this is a few years back now. Somebody sent
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 6: it to me and I just laughed because I couldn't
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 6: believe that they had chosen it. But there was a
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 6: show called Gomorra in Italy that was fairly popular. That
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 6: was like another Their version of the Sopranos and the
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 6: crime family is the Sabastanos, which I thought was pretty funny, Like, yeah,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 6: jin Marco Sabastano is one.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 7: Of those funny One of our biggest supporters of the show, Trey,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 7: sent me a message when they were writing down the
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 7: names and good fellas, like when they were on the
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 7: phone on the wire taps, what are the names they
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 7: write down? Is Barelli? Nice? I mean I had already
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 7: known that, but.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 8: Good eyes, they're paying attention. Yeah, such a great.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 7: There. Yeah, yeah, all right, so let's see. I'm gonna
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 7: skip ahead a little bit dominic. But Blasi bodyguarden Gianna
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 7: contacted set fifteen, last interviewed at length, However, declined to
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 7: indicate gan Comma's present whereabouts. Stated FBI must be aware
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 7: from investigation of Blassi that Blasi has not been with
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 7: gen Conna since release of jail. Blasi advised that Anthony Tiski,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 7: son in law Giancanna, has had increasing heart problems since
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 7: his appearance before.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 6: FGJ.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 7: I don't know what that means, and has been advised
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 7: by a physician to leave Chicago area for ever Arizona.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 7: So listen, they have a lot of inside information, I think.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 7: Oh yeah, Blossie advised he received phone calls from Phillis McGuire.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 6: So now he's not even just reporting on Sam, He's
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 6: reporting on Sam's context. So yeah, Blassie, I believe that
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 6: was the missing piece in all of this, was that
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 6: he was in the pocket of the FBI as well.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 7: Right, They probably had him on something, right.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 6: I'm sure, or he just wanted he thought he was
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 6: I guess I thought he was going to be like
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 6: Johnny ROSELLI. I thought he was going to take advantage
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 6: of the government, but he wasn't nearly smart.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 7: Very possible, very possible received a phone call from Phillis McGuire,
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 7: part of the McGuire sisters, three weeks ago from Colorado Springs.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 7: He even knows where she's calling from, although Blassie declined
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 7: to discuss nature of call. Point he made was that
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 7: gen Conna not seeing McGuire at this time, stated gene
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 7: Connor free equently kept McGuire at Blasi's residence when they
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 7: were intimate. But as you guys know, McGuire has not
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 7: been at Blasis. As you guys know in quotations, McGuire
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 7: has not been at Blasi's since Yan Kanna went to jail.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 7: Although Blasi advised he will never discuss activities of his association.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 6: Sub jac, he agreed to arrangement.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 7: For further contacts at Office of the Westside, Chicago at
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 7: desire of agents to discuss me and me alone.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, so hey, Dominic, what were you doing down
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 5: at the FBI? Nothing, just talking about me.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 4: And me alone.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, this is one of the ones I think that
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 6: is certainly adds to the what I think at this
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 6: point is pretty solid case against dominic Blasi. Is that no,
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 6: like Robert up earlier, no retribution. Everybody was good except Nicoletti.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 6: Everybody else thought it.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 7: Was It was fine, right CG nine five six'. One
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 7: cte advised that nothing had changed Since giankata has been.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 7: Killed let's see this is eleven, five so this is
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 7: like four months after he.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 6: Died is.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 7: The word has is out that he had had it
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 7: coming in quotations and a cardo a? Yupah DID i
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 7: say that? Wrong?
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, No IPA's, right joey. Oopah that's right for.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 7: Me Here carlin and the rest of the people are
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 7: satisfied the job was quote well. Done source indicated it
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 7: was his guess that someone very close To sam was
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 7: contacted and ordered to do the. Job when orders came
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 7: from the, top you can not get. Off this guy
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 7: could have well Been english Or. Blasi source indicated that
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 7: both had the complete confidence Of Guan kana and would
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 7: have no trouble getting Into gencanna's. House that same informant
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 7: Advised Special Agent Frank, ford there is god they infiltrated
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 7: them so. Hard huh so many?
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 6: Informants oh, yeah oh there were, Yeah and that's LIKE i, said.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 6: Earlier that's where you can really see the danger of
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 6: programs like Co, intelpro where in some Ways, hoover you,
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 6: know it was illegal across the, board but in some,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 6: ways like taking out The, klan it actually did a
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 6: good service to, society but it didn't use an illegal.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 6: Means so when the government cannot get you, legally they'll
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 6: get you, illegally whether that's through surveillance or informants or other,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 6: ways they'll find a way to get. You and that's
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 6: What hoover, did and that's that's WHY i have such
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 6: an issue with stuff like The Patriot act or you,
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 6: know the prison, program or any surveillance that the government
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 6: does in the, public because it's a violation of our.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 6: Rights and even though these guys were criminals and they
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 6: were mob, bosses they still were supposed to have. Rights
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 6: but you can see as far back as, Then hoover didn't.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 6: Care they're doing open mailing programs and anybody said anything
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 6: From russia with THE, cia they didn't. Care they were
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 6: going to do whatever they wanted to take this. Apart
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 6: and that's, why AND i think the mafia felt. Similarly
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 6: acardo was, like he cannot be allowed to take root
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 6: he cannot be allowed to contact his old people and
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 6: call together some sort of group and start his own
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 6: crew and try to take me.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 4: Down he's got to.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 8: Go and we know two guys that'll see.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 6: Him one hadn't seen.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 8: Him english for a long.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 6: Time was the other day at night when he normally
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 6: was never.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 7: There narrows it down pretty. Closely let's. See during the past,
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 7: week in former stated he has been in several hoodlum,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 7: hangouts Including Hollywood lounge And, Cicero. Illinois no one discusses Gian,
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 7: kanna and there is no talk about quote revenge as
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 7: there would be if the mafia murder was not. Authorized,
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 7: right that's what we've been.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 6: Talking i'm sure was rewarded quite. Well, Yes i'm. Sure
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 6: i'm Sure blasi or whomever else it could have, been
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 6: was rewarded quite well for getting rid of.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 7: Him it is now well known that Quote sam got
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 7: someone high up pretty. Mad. End quote source indicated that
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 7: Gian kanna brought it on himself by whatever he said
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 7: or did since returning To. Mexico right source indicated that
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 7: TWO lcn, Members, yes, sir we're very close to Gene.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 7: Conna he stated that one or the other probably got
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 7: a phone call from one of the. Committee whoever received
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 7: the call would have had no. Choice source indicated that
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 7: Gen conna was definitely with quote friends when he was.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 7: Killed it was a source's opinion that Either Charles english
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 7: Or Dominic blasi would be good suspects in this.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 4: Murder and also, too you, know in the time.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 5: That gana was In, mexico you, know he's still conducting
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 5: mafia business and he's not kicking it up back To
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 5: akardo and the boys In. Chicago so they were pissed
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 5: about that. Too AND i said not to mention the
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 5: fact that you, know they knew he was coming. Back
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 5: this is something they could have planned and executed not
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 5: very long After giankanna returned To. Chicago as you, know
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 5: it was a couple of, days you, know maybe.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 6: TONIGHT i was just gonna, SAY i would Assume, blasi
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 6: as we know from the earlier, thing was just as
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 6: vocal with the mob as he was with THE. Fbi
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 6: so as soon as you kind of hit the ground
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 6: and he, knew he called.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 4: Ye and the. CARD i was, Like, okay thanks for
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 4: the heads, up, Buddy, yeah keep an eye on.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 6: Him don't be exactly what he does where he goes
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 6: and THE fbi was, like, hey keep an eye on.
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 5: Him an awkward phone. Call, hey It's tony The Big. Tuna, Hey,
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 5: dominic UH i need you to take your boy out there.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 5: Tonight by the, way UH i don't, wait it needs
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 5: to be done, tonight you. Know and he was probably like, fuck.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 6: You, know but he had, already LIKE i said, earlier
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 6: he had already betrayed A cardo For. Giancanna why wouldn't
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 6: he Betray janghana For. Cardo it's not like he had real.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 6: Loyalty if he had real, loyalty he wouldn't have been
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 6: talking to THE.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 7: Fbi, yeah over, before ten years.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 5: Before, yeah that's the penance he had to pay to
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 5: get back in with, him you, know he he left
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 5: him for for and went out of the.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 8: Country would have about a hell of a way to
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 8: buy your way back in if You.
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, Sam sam's gotta. Go but you know you
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 4: do this for, us you're back. In we'll take care of.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 6: You, Yeah and he obviously needed the money from his informant.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 6: Reports he wanted more money and didn't think he was
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 6: making enough.
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 7: Exactly, yeah he was probably definitely getting. Paid just a fun.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 7: Comment mafia, movie, Though.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 6: Oh, geez there's so many good kinds from different. GENRES i,
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 6: mean you got Your, godfathers you got Your Bronx, tales
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 6: you got Your.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 4: Gangs Of New york.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 6: Gangs old even older school, yeah or newer ones that
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 6: people might like THAT i thought were pretty. GOOD i
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 6: Enjoyed The governor's Or Hoodies Versus. Hooligans if you haven't seen,
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 6: it it's An english. Movie it's pretty. Good it's about you, know,
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 6: Uh english working class guys who basically got into a
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 6: gang and became famous because they just took basically controlled
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 6: an area kind of like a. Mob but that's you,
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 6: know that's not Directly italian, mob but just oh, yeah
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 6: there's a lot Of Boardwalk. Empire if you like a,
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 6: show if you want a nice long show that has
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 6: lots of great portrayals of famous. MOBSTERS i think that
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 6: might be one of the most accurate Portrayals i've ever
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 6: seen Of Arnold rothstein And Lucky luciano and My.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 8: Ski and it's then when they're. Younger is in a two?
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 6: Right, Yeah copone starts out As Johnny torreo's. Driver it's
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 6: actually Before copona. Sons it's interesting to watch because it
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 6: shows you this point we were talking about that Eventually
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 6: copone and his generation got taken out by the ones below,
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 6: them Like, sam But Nookie thompson and all the others
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 6: in the show get taken out by the generations below.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 6: Them they get taken out by The, capones they get
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 6: taken out by The, lanski's The, luciano's and then eventually
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 6: cycle just keeps. REPEATING a new wave of criminals comes
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 6: in that are a little bit more, ruthless a little
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 6: bit more, aggressive and then they take out the last.
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 8: Generation and replace.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 7: Them, yeah for, sure but.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 8: Yeah those Are i'd say those are good.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 7: Ones. Bronxtail bronxtail is one of my.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 6: Favorite take them in the. Bathroom you remember at the
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 6: end of the, Movie Joe pesci's.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 7: Character, Hi i'm, yeah do you remember?
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 4: Me oh?
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah did the guy really get killed over a part?
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 4: Spot?
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 7: BRO I i know that whole, Movie it's.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 6: Crazy one more these notes goes to this Kid's i'm
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 6: going to Good, Fellas Good. Fella's another one one more
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 6: of these notes to this kid's, house and you're going
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 6: in the.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 5: Oven what was That Johnny, Depplin uh oh, yeah they
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 5: did a or he was THE fbi agent went under? Cover,
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 5: fine what the funk was?
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 7: It? Oh that was Uh Donnie, Brasco Donny.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 4: Brasco, yeah that was a good movie.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 7: Too, yeah and and in the Non italian because we
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 7: don't want to.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 6: Just talk About, yeah there's a sort of, cool.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 7: LIKE i, said The government on The, Departed you know.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 6: What even the Movie the DEPART i thought that the
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 6: part was, good but in my, opinion a better AND
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 6: i think it has mafioso and criminals from both sides
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 6: of the pond is snatch the Guy ritchie Movie Brick,
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 6: top the character the mob boss In england is one
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 6: of the best portrayals of my, opinion of a hard
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 6: nosed mob. Boss LIKE i remember one point a character
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 6: in the movie Called turkish is, Like i'll make it.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 8: Coffee would you like some?
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 6: Sugar? Does? No, Thanks, Turkish i'm sweet, Enough and then
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 6: he just goes into how to kill people with. Pigs
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 6: he goes into a speech where he's, like never trust
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 6: a man who owns a pig farm and then lists
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 6: all the reasons and how fast pigs can get rid
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 6: of and that's like his opening for.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 4: People, yeah there's lots of, good lots and great.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 7: Movies yeah, Yeah mafia.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 6: Ones yeah that, Yeah now you can't.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 8: Leave that's a good.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 7: Light oh, man all, right sorry for that, tangent but let's.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 7: CONTINUE i only have a couple, MORE i.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 8: Think, MAN i just GOTTA i gotta finish with this real.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 7: Quick.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah and that was. It all the bills are run,
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 6: up everything was. Mad and then someone let him match.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 8: To collect the.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 7: Insurance, RIGHT i, mean what in, theory what have he
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 7: had kicked have kicked up at that.
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 6: Point, well theoretically if they if he STILL i bet
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 6: you he was just operating for. Himself they probably didn't
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 6: want that, happening BECAUSE i have no doubt that they
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 6: might have had at Least trafficante might have had a
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 6: piece of some of Those mexican, rackets because some of
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 6: those bosses did not necessarily that they had to claim
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 6: to the. Territory it was of course going to be
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 6: the claim to the local. Mafia BUT i know for
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 6: sure That trafficante ran in at Least tampa in the
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 6: area that he operated out of all different kinds of
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 6: ballero and bingo, games of all different people's, Backgrounds so
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 6: it didn't matter if you were black or you Were
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 6: cuban or you were, white you were playing one of his.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 6: Games it might look like somebody else owned, it but
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 6: ultimately he owned it and got kicked up the majority
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 6: of everything they.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 5: Made and, again what the hell Were Dominic blasie And
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 5: Charles england was doing In?
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 6: Florida it was a popular, place no matter worked for
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 6: TRAFFIC conti for, all.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 4: You, Know that's What i'm. Saying they might have been doing, something.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah just selling the, services you, know BECAUSE i.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 5: Mean they left UH g And conna alone there for
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 5: a couple of, months and In houston it sounds like
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 5: Or mexico and Then houston, Whatever but you know they
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 5: had been In florida for a couple of, Months, yeah Without.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 7: Giancanna so, yeah they had his whole timeline they.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 8: Had, yeah.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 6: It has to be someone real, close as they keep,
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 6: saying it had to be, someone and there was one
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 6: guy who consistently on the time it, mattered was real.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 7: Close AND i Wasn't Frank.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 8: STURGIS i.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 6: Know it Wasn't Frank sturgis Or Tony kara Or joy
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 6: Or alex or any other well known mob, boss at
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 6: least not according to the.
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 7: Right let's, see, oh in nineteen seventy. Nine we have
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 7: let me see. This i'm Gonna i'm trying to get through.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 8: This they are created with the names Rose. Kill.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah is That that's WHAT i was going to ask?
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 7: You is that what that is named?
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 6: From somebody must have named that that that case or
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 6: they're part of the case Rose Kill burgmers would Have, yeah,
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 6: Murders so That, gamers once again is a lazy somebody
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 6: assigning a lazy case name or case.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 7: File and this is like two and a half plus
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 7: a year After roseilli was. Killed, YEAH i don't know
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 7: what gangmers means gang. Murders, oh, okay, okay, sorry miss,
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 7: that thank. You uh blah blah. Blah the majority of
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 7: Gang mers victims were hits conducted independently of each. Other
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 7: although twenty two caliber weapons appear to be the weapon
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 7: of choice and numerous gangland, murders there is no evidence
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 7: to indicate that one or two hitters travel across the
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 7: country for THE, lcn specializing.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 4: In twenty two over weapon.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 7: Murders gancanna found murder in his basement with the weapon
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 7: from The taiamini Gunshot, Miami, florida along with weapons used
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 7: in the Man The maniaci. Killing, yeah g And conna
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 7: was having an affair With Tony spilatro's. Wife, okay that is, no, no,
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 7: no that's the guy From.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 4: Casino uh, yeah, yeah there's another good. Movie oh, yeah
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 4: we forgot.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 7: That uh power struggle going on between Gi conna And
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 7: tonyacardo for leadership Of CHICAGO. ELC i mean, AGAIN i
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 7: feel like we've been repeating, this but we just have
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 7: to hammer down how ridiculous That sturgis killed not only
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 7: g And, conna But rosetlle too And.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 6: Roselli, yeah like we got Into giencanna really in depth
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 6: in some Of, rosselli But. Roselli it's just look at
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 6: the way in, which once again it. Happened Frank sturgis
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 6: was not according to his statements to the, police his
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 6: statement that in that piece of video you played earlier
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 6: and every other Time i've seen him Discuss Johnny roselli
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 6: said they never met, him they never came into contact with.
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 6: Him so let's Say sturgis is. Lying, okay, well how
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 6: does Sturge i just know Where roselli? Lives how Does
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 6: sturgis Convince roselli to meet him in his sister's car
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 6: and then. Vanishes they found the car later at the,
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 6: airport which is Where roselli joked with his sister prior
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 6: that IF i ever go, missing check the local airports
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 6: because that's what they would, do because you could leave
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 6: a body parked in a trunk for a long time
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 6: at an airport until anybody ever found. Anything but in his,
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 6: case he was just. Gone the, thing in my, opinion
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 6: that's in the evidence that shows that it was Not
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 6: Johnny roselli who was driving that car when it was
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 6: parked at the, airport is his brother in law noticed
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 6: That roselli had an obsessive compulsive thing of always taking
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 6: the garage door opener and locking it in the glove
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 6: box whenever he got out of the car because he
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 6: didn't want to have an.
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 7: Access he was.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 6: Afraid he was afraid sooner or later because he had,
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 6: talked somebody was going to come, looking so he didn't
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 6: want anyone to have. Access but when they found the,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 6: car it was on top of the. Dash that person
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 6: didn't know that that was his obsessive, compulsion that he
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 6: would always put it, away and that to me gives away.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 8: That wasn't him.
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 6: Driving that's why his brother in. LAW i think it
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 6: was him. Driving so he went to meet, someone like
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 6: we said, before chances that were a friend of some,
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 6: sort and he never came back right right and found
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 6: in a drum we have.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 5: Friends hang, On, joe go back to that last slide you, had,
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 5: SURE i really wanted to hear you say that last
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 5: line on.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 7: That what is this a? Trap?
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 4: Now the one before this? One, yeah this, One.
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 7: I'm not gonna say it.
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 4: To a bunch of.
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 6: SAVAGES i didn't even know what so? Funny HAS i
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 6: read somebody?
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 8: FILES i didn't even.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 6: KNOW i just had so many files with horrible.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 4: Stuff that's gonna be the. Worst, yeah, yeah.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 7: What did he do to you?
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 6: Know it's nothing.
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 4: Extremely Dark.
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 6: Italian he must have like got with you, know it
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 6: isn't it isn't necessarily a MAFIA i was just gonna
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 6: say it isn't necessarily a mafia. Movie but another one
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 6: that just made me think of true. Romance another great
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 6: one of the greatest mafia scenes ever With Christopher walking
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 6: pretending to be A sicilian. Mobster what was he was
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 6: like a my name Is Vincent. CACATIA i worked for
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 6: Mister Blolo boyle your.
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 4: Son yeah that he is.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 7: License James gandy, Movie, yeah where he's an unfortunate in
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 7: that movie, too, TOTALLY i.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 6: Guessarantee is that's what built the road To Tony, soprano
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 6: like just you.
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 7: Know, yeah he's amazing in that. Movie so maybe we
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 7: just start a movie podcast right?
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 4: Already DID.
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: I?
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 6: KNOW i hope that you tell the angels In HEAVEN
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 6: i was the biggest personification of evil you've ever come.
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 6: Across just a great, movie, yeah, great great presentation of a. Gangster.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah so On july twenty, Eighth roselli's sister had said
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 7: That roselli had to fix late breakfast at approximately one.
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 7: Pm late, Breakfast, yeah he's slept lunch bunch.
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 4: As, LUNCH i, know late for, lunch, yeah late.
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 7: Lunch, yeah that's probably his last. Meal he gave no
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 7: indication of having an. Appointment she assumed he was leaving
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 7: to shop for an hour or, so which was his.
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 7: Custom it was Named Tasa johnny. Right and this Is
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 7: Frank fiorini's statement On october, fourteenth seventy, six which would be, uh.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 4: Was rosili In.
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 6: Miami, yeah he had moved in with his sister at
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 6: that point because he was.
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 5: Broke, okay so he WAS i knew it Was, floridas you,
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 5: know it Was miami as. Well, Yeah fiorini lived In, Miami.
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 6: Oka, well and he Had actually one of the Files
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 6: i've seen before was he did Contact, roselle did Traffic
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 6: conte in a social. Manner what they, discussed who, Knows
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 6: but he was seen at least once or twice With
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 6: santo's Traffic cotie at dinner and at coffee.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 7: Shop, WELL i mean that's not unusual considering they were
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 7: involved in the Ci in mafia plots together, Exactly and.
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 6: That makes a lot more sense to me than any
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 6: sort of you, know conspiracy about.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 8: It it was just they had worked, together and.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 4: He might have been desperate for money and answer the
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 4: thing was he was for that committee.
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 6: Too, yeah but he was a.
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 8: Trafficante did the The Fifth amendment? Special?
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 4: Right? Yeah but they could have been you, know talking
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 4: about YEAH i got the. Letter did you get the?
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 6: Letter?
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 4: YEAH i got you, know what are we gonna?
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 6: Do trying to keep our story? Straight or or maybe
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 6: that was even a. Test maybe trafficante realized that maybe
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 6: it was only talked too, much.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 7: Right, Right he could have been feeling him.
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 4: Out, yeah did he take the fifth, there but what
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 4: he wanted to.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 6: Hear, WELL i Think roselli really did himself in by
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 6: making friends With harvey when he made friends With William
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 6: harvey and kept an ongoing friendship once the C I
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 6: a and the thank You james that you liked my
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 6: walking In?
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 4: Fresson what's spot?
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 6: On now that now you're bringing me? Back that is
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 6: such a GREAT i JUST i love it so much
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 6: THAT i just remember. Something you, know with any, movie
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 6: you guys love you parts of. It but, yeah it's
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 6: a great.
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 7: Movie that's.
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 6: Speech but you'll get the reference to What rob was
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 6: talking about earlier if you Watch True rometes Because Dennis, Hopper,
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 6: uh what was?
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 7: IT i?
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 6: Think, Yeah Dennis hopper is the father the guy that
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 6: he's trying to find and Walk in explains to him
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 6: that he can always tell if he's. Lying he was,
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 6: like my father was the heavyweight champion of Sicilian lia's
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 6: Nineteen ways A Man Can lie twenty one a. Woman
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 6: but he knew all the. Pantomimes SO i know we're
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 6: gonna play a game of show and, tell and you're
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 6: gonna show me even if you don't want to tell.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 7: Me, yeah what's up With Christopher, walking and then the
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 7: death Of Natalie. Howaway is that the lady's name that's
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 7: a that's.
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 5: A that's a whole other rob lady's Name, joe but
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 5: Something natalie Would Oh.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 6: Natalie, would, yes, yes, yeah the lady who disappeared on
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 6: The caribbean.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 4: On a. Boat but, yeah so that was the one.
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 6: Story is another one of those mysterious and Now wagner's,
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 6: gone so you can take him at his word or,
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 6: not but it was there's interesting parts that it's kind
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 6: of almost in a, way you know when we, started
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 6: at least with the g And kanna more of a
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 6: mystery because there's three people and one person, dies but you,
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 6: know totally afraid of, water would have never gotten off the.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 6: Boat had just had an argument With Robert wagner about
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 6: sleeping With Christopher. Walking that doesn't mean anybody did. Anything
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 6: that just means there's some questions that were never really,
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 6: answered and Both walking and became very evasive later, on
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 6: which is understandable because you, know you don't maybe maybe
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 6: they are innocent and they just don't want to get
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 6: blamed for. Something but it's kind of a trafficante move
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 6: to dummy. Up oh, YEAH i guess you jumped in the,
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 6: boat you, know out, there and, yeah their careers were
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 6: so big at the time.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 4: Too that you, know, Right Robert wagner is alive and
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 4: ninety Five wagner.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 6: Is alive still yeah away you got? Me?
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 7: If?
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah if ninety? Five oh, wow yeah, NO i Thought
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 6: i'm a side. Note has absolutely nothing to do with.
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 6: This BUT i used to be a fan when he was,
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 6: alive but he passed away BECAUSE i had a chance
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 6: to meet him a couple of times With Gilbert godfrey
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 6: And Gilbert grafford did a podcast where he would interview
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 6: people from like thirty years, ago none of the current movie,
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 6: stars And wagner was one of the people he. Interviewed
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 6: so if he's but, now you know when he's so,
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 6: old good? Luck yeah you're him and walking are not
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 6: going to discuss.
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 4: THIS i REMEMBER i was a, kid, Right this had
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 4: to be in the, eighties AND.
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 5: I think we were going To, Fairfax virginia to a, mall,
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 5: right because we didn't have a mall yet in our
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 5: ship town and so we had to drive an hour
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 5: away to the fucking.
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 4: Mall but.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 5: Y'all have heard Of, Middleburg, virginia, right m. Hmm it's
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 5: where the KEN i THINK jfk had a house there
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 5: Or Robert kennedy one of. Them they had a horse
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 5: farm there And jackie.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 4: You know all that. Shit a.
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 5: Toka But middleburg is literally like a one light. Town
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 5: it's got a main street and that's about. It but
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 5: there's super rich people live and famous people live all
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 5: around this little little. Town and it's about, say about
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 5: a half hour forty five minutes outside OF, dc you,
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 5: know kind of right when you started hitting the. Mountains
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 5: AND i remember we were going and they were filming
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 5: an episode Of heart To heart from that, show AND
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 5: i saw we Saw Robert wagner and the, chick you,
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 5: know they were on like the front porch of this
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 5: building that was right on Main, street and then all
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 5: the cameras set up they were FILMING i guess part
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 5: of the episode.
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 4: There it was just it was just. Weird and then
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 4: later on WHEN i grew up and, UH i used
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 4: to deliver beer.
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 6: In that area And italian.
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 8: Credentials, Yeah Bella, GRENOS.
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 4: I met Ben, stein that that Dude win Ben. Stein.
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 7: Wow so, Yeah.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 5: Sylvester stallone And robert De niro. TWICE i saw him
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 5: at this little deli THAT i delivered to and he
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 5: was there with his much younger, wife who was a
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 5: smoke show by the, way and had a rock side of.
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 4: Fucking it was huge.
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 6: Ceremony.
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah and THEN i was At Middleburgh Tennis club and
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 5: SO i had to deliver this beer up the stairs
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 5: to the. Kitchen So i'm going up there AND i
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 5: see his dude standing there like over top of a
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 5: there was like a, big like plexi glass. Window we
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 5: looked down on the tennis, courts indoor tennis. Courts Stephanie, Powers,
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 5: yes thank, you and UH i.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 6: Was, like, MAN.
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 5: I was, like, motherfucker looks like it looks Like Robbert duvall.
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 5: Again SO i just kind of went and did my
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 5: ship and put, it put the stuff in the. KITCHEN
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 5: i come back out AND i, said Mister duvall and
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 5: he turns. AROUND i, SAID i, said you.
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 4: Know just a huge fan of your, work you, know
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 4: just and he was nice as can.
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 8: Be, man Everything i've heard was a class.
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 7: Sack.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 8: Yeah so you got to meet some aleist. CELEBRITIES i
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 8: might be in seateless.
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 6: Celebrities i'm Out Gilbert, GODFREY i Met Kevin. MEANEY i
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 6: used to bounce a different comedy clubs WHEN i was,
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 6: younger So i'd run into comedians here and, there or
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 6: entertainers that you know on their way. Down like you
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 6: people were still people were coming on their way.
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 5: Down evolve was short as, hell, MAN i, mean dude
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 5: had to be five four five, five, like he was.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 5: Short surprised the hell out of. ME i thought he
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 5: would be, taller but, nah he's pretty.
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 6: Short but, yeah, yeah Oh pacino. Too pacino a giant
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 6: the way they shot him in some. Movies, yeah and
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 6: he's the smaller dude as.
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 7: Well, yeah didn't De niro have to wear like shoes
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 7: with like three inch?
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 6: Uh, like it's not very it's not very common to
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 6: see LIKE i am the Only ITALIAN i know that
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 6: is six, three and that's, because, Yeah i'm the only.
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 6: Idea i'm the Only ITALIAN i know that that's. That
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 6: and it was only by chance of my mother's. Ire
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 6: so that's why my family.
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 4: Five ten or.
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 6: Less there's not a lot of HUGE i mean there's
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 6: big you, Know italian, goons but they're not usually tall as.
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 7: Well, right you should have been an, enforcer Mister, CALLIN i.
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 7: Know so let me just finish this real. Quickly Frank
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 7: frierini surgis blah blah blah where he was employed at
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 7: The miami book manufacturing.
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 8: Company that's kind of ironic, though when we think about.
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 7: It, yeah that's what took the words out of my.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 4: Mouth The Miami Book depository.
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 7: Essentially voluntarily advised that he does not Know John rosselli by, name,
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 7: association or. Photograph he never Met roselli In, cuba who
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 7: did not know him as an associate With Sancho conte
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 7: And Sam, gincana except by news. Reports he said Patro
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 7: diilla's lands touched on, earlier would not Know roselli. EITHER
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 7: i don't know why he's talking For patrogia's. Lands he
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 7: did say he. Did he said he did not Know
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 7: Vicky morgan Or Mary Kay. Martin we got Another, Martin,
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 7: Rubb Mary. CAVE i Know Mary kaya or any girlfriend
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 7: Of Sam. Giacana he said he knew the whereabouts of
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 7: the Folk.
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 6: Scott what is?
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 3: That?
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 6: Folksa do you know what that?
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 7: Is, CARMEN i.
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 6: Don't i've heard the name, before BUT i don't know
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 6: where it.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 7: Originates, oh it's just mentioned it's a building In. Cuba oh,
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 7: Sorry i'm.
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 6: Not reading which which makes sense that pre Pre Castro,
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 6: cuba you, know because they eventually he's part of The
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 6: bay Of. Pick So sturgis is going to have knowledge
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 6: of all those. Things but it's not like they Invited
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 6: Frank sturgis to hang out with gi And conna And
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 6: roselle when they were.
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 8: Sending up the castro.
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 6: Plot so whilst just lies sometimes and, proficiently it doesn't
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 6: mean this is untrue because he wouldn't have had. Access
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 6: THE cia would have never exposed themselves if they didn't
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 6: trust g and con And. Rosselli you think they were
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 6: gonna Trust sturgis to know that they were having. Meetings
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 6: would why would they tell some line item, guy you,
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 6: know just another one of their people there top informa
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 6: because imagine a sturg just has gone to the papers
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 6: like some other people didn't reveal the castro plants, earlier
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 6: like when they were. Ongoing that would have been a
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 6: huge black. Guy they would have never allowed themselves nice
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 6: you know what that counts.
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 7: To.
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 6: Me that's higher than c lists than some of the
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 6: People i'm, at.
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 4: Though Not.
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 6: GILBERT i Put gilbert in a solid he was Fun GILBERT.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 4: I met Ron jeremy That's.
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 8: Hilart.
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 5: Wow he was DOING i guess a little signing at
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 5: some shitty like sex club Over West, virginia was like
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 5: twenty miles.
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 4: AWAY i was, like gotta go MEET.
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 6: I suppose it's the good thing about not meeting a,
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 6: listers like you got to meet a. Listers the one
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 6: good thing about it WAS i Met Chuck, woolery remember
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 6: him From Love. NEXT i met him once and WHEN
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 6: i was working at a WHEN i was working at an,
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 6: event and he came in and he was just a
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 6: total douche to, everybody just you, know acted like he
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 6: was some sort of big time.
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 4: Celebrity and to be A cia, OH i don't, know could.
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 6: Be he was the he was the host Of Love.
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 8: Connection that's ALL i know him from.
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 4: Thinking but he you, know he.
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 6: Came in like it was still the seventies and the
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 6: eighties and The Love connection was still LOVE, tv which it.
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 6: Wasn't this is like twenty years, later and he's like
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 6: doing the you, know celebrity, appearance and you know, everybody
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 6: he was mean to, everybody and they looked at me
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 6: AND i just looked at him and, went, oh the
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 6: guy from The Dating, Game AND i sang the whole dating,
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 6: game which just made him live in a his story
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 6: and everybody's, like you, know that's the dating. Game i'm, like,
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 6: yeah of.
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 7: COURSE i.
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 4: Know thank. You Scott hairis from uh The Gong.
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 5: Show, yeah, great great movie With Sam, rockwell what the fun.
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 6: Was it called The men Watching goats or something like.
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 4: That, no it was damn, IT i am not killing, yeah.
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 6: Because that wasn't that the way they thought they could,
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 6: Do like they could travel through, walls so they'd run
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 6: into walls and fall.
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 5: Down, no that was the one where they could, kill
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 5: like make a goat die with their mind with The
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 5: clooney and.
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 6: Uh oh, yeah that was the one With.
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 7: Clooney.
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah, sorry different different intelligence me if you can.
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 4: Maybe, no that Was Leonard.
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 6: DiCaprio, here there's gotta be a A Beautiful.
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 4: Mind, no that was.
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 6: Confession That's essions of A Dangerous.
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 7: One, oh there you. Go there you, go.
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 4: Boy we are. Digging we are going on some.
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 6: Tangents you're gonna make me Do jane The Dancing machine and.
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 7: Hate we have. Fun we have fun on the, show
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 7: that's for, Sure and especially.
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 8: When you're on car that's straight out of The Guns.
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 4: SHOW i don't have a gong sound effects as close
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 4: AS i can. Get, yeah so st just.
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 7: Goes on blah blah, blah Pedroor DIA's, Lambs casino On
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 7: or's nothing.
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 6: And traffic code makes sense too because we know he
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 6: ended up in jail too because he stayed too.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 8: Long.
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah some people ran as soon as they realized what
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 6: was going to, happen Like lanski and the, others and
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 6: some people.
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 7: Stayed Although lanski's brother was caught up in.
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 6: IT i, believe, yeah because he. Was, yeah one of
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 6: THE i think he.
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 7: WAS i presented on the timeline of gangsters and who
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 7: they actually when they actually like how many Days we
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 7: tried to narrow it down to how many days that
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 7: they spent with each. Other Lauren Hall Santra Trafficante mantino
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 7: gave it Christ, Anyways i'm gonna skip. This this is
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 7: The death And times of A. Gangster this is one
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 7: of your articles About, roselli and that's.
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 6: Fine, yeah they can check out the, links BUT i
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 6: advise people if they want to learn, more it got
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 6: links back to the evidence and you can go into
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 6: The National archives of The Marrifail foundation or reputable source
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 6: and you can see the evidence some of the Stuff
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 6: joe shown and all the other stuff because it comes
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 6: from files On giancanna AND resulti there are dozens sometimes
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 6: hundreds of, pages.
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 4: So there's they put his ass in dumb Foundling.
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 7: Bash can you explain this, briefly like what the black
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 7: dots mean or or where he?
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 6: Was, WELL i think that's where that eventually he was
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 6: where he was discovered Dumbfoundling. BAY i suppose how intelligent was.
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 8: The person who did.
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 6: It maybe there was someone up the chain that was
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 6: smart enough to understand what dumb foundling, meant which means
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 6: a stupid young, person a foundling or someone who's newing.
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 6: Something but that just could be total. Coincidence, sorry that
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 6: just could run the closest baya where they could chop
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 6: him up to, Right, yes but it is once, again
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 6: it is rather funny that that was the place that was.
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 7: Chosen, right and you have all this documents on your.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 7: Website i'm not going to read through all.
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 12: This, yeah description people link is in the description, Essentially,
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 12: yeah what the the issue is That i've already discussed
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 12: this With Robin, Joe but it's kind of like with Gian,
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 12: kanna it's a limited window it's a limited window That
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 12: frankster just can't have any knowledge.
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 6: Of and it's a limited. Window pretty much anyone who
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 6: isn't a close associate Of Johnny rosselli would. Know trafficanti would,
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 6: know and Anybody Traffic county told would. Know OR i,
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 6: SEE i don't see this As. Chicago it could. BE
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 6: i think it likely was just you, know Traffic counte
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 6: had to deal with it because he was in his.
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 6: Territory that's where he had moved. To so If chicago's
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 6: like this guy's gonna, talk he knows a bunch about,
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 6: us he knows About, vegas he knows about all of
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 6: our operations out, west and he knows about.
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 7: You he would have to have given the go ahead.
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 6: Exactly nobody would have done it Without traffic countis okay
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 6: in his.
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 4: Territory you see has a meeting with, him with a
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 4: couple of times traffick counting with. Him maybe it was like, man.
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 6: And you, know some people would even, say you, know
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 6: we can go through the list of you, know all
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 6: the potential. People the people might, say Like cuban, Exiles
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 6: well they had no. Reason they never Knew Johnny, Rosselli
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 6: Johnny roselli is not Like Frank. Sturgis he's not directly
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 6: associated With cuban.
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 8: Exiles they would know of, him but they wouldn't know
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 8: the details of his.
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 6: Life this has to be somebody in the mafia who's still,
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 6: close and he doesn't have Many according to his sister
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 6: and his, brother he didn't have any Mafia i'm sure
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 6: he still had a, couple they just didn't. Know but
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 6: all of his other contacts were just with his. Family
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 6: he had. Retired, essentially he knew that he was no.
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 8: Longer he was an old.
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 6: Man he was an old man that couldn't be an
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 6: effective hitman. Anymore he had been a fixer for a long,
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 6: time but even, that you, know and he got displaced
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 6: when the people that he associated with were taken out
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 6: his bosses and the new bosses took.
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 8: Over why would you.
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 6: Want to use a worn down old hitman a, right.
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 7: Especially if he's not making any income and he's broken
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 7: in his sister's. Basement what's the well and he.
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 6: Had to borrow money from, Her and that to me
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 6: is the ultimate showing you he's. Broke what respectable mafioso
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 6: would have to go and ask their sister to borrow
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 6: money so that they could just pay their basic expenses
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 6: and live in her. House you didn't even have a.
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 6: Car he was using her car when he. Disappeared, yeah
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 6: it was new, too that must have she was, mad
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 6: a bunch of. Savages you had to take him out
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 6: of my, car try to sell the car because you feel.
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 4: Bad AND i was gonna remind you her his sister killed.
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 8: Him, nice here we, GO i know exactly, SO.
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 4: I mean this sounds personal to.
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 7: Me, Yeah so last. SLIDE i have autopsy findings Of Johnny.
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 7: Roselli decomposed body gag occluding mouth and. Nose gag over
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 7: his mouth and. NOSE i don't know how that. Works
• 2:25:09
  Speaker 7: but circular wound of lower abdomen post, mortem rob you're
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 7: gonna laugh at. Me with all these words coming, UP
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 7: i might skip some of. Them these shaped in insized
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 7: wound of abdomen with removal of upper pole of kidney
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 7: and multiple incisions of small bowel post. Mortem two circular,
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 7: Perforations thank you of. Stomach can you come and like more?
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 7: Often a disaster every? Week it's a running joke. Here
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 7: bilateral amputation of lower, extremities.
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 8: Which it is like that they chopped them into.
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 6: Pieces, ah a bunch of other.
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 7: Shit, essentially he.
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 6: Was severe pulmonary emphysema and, fibrosis moderate coronary, arthereoscolerosis advanced
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 6: osteo arthritis of lumbar, spine marked dilation of bladder or
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 6: delictitation of.
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 7: BLADDER i, LOVE.
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 6: I just read so many medical. Things once you've done
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 6: the jfkk's.
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 7: Lineup you just.
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 8: READ i WISH i didn't know how to.
• 2:26:27
  Speaker 4: Read you literally cut the piss out of.
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 6: Him, WELL i, mean, yeah, no They this is another
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 6: reason why surgis or one person alone didn't do it
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 6: is because someone had to, drive and someone had to
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 6: do it to. Him you can't drive while you're asphyxiating.
• 2:26:48
  Speaker 6: Him this is a two person. Job chances are the
• 2:26:52
  Speaker 6: closest since we've been doing gangster. Movies it Was maury
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 6: And goodfellas When pesci came from behind with the ice.
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 6: Pick that's what probably happen in A. Roselle one of
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 6: his buddies got in the. Back one of his, buddies
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 6: or maybe even you know the laail. Drive don't worry
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 6: about your Relaxed one of his buddies was. Driving they got.
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 6: Him they gagged him because it said his death was by,
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 6: asphyxiation so they didn't even choke him to. Death they
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 6: might have choked him, somewhat but he basically choked to
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 6: death on, however they gagged him and bound. Him they
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 6: took him TO i would assume a mob affiliated. Business
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 6: it was in a shipping. Area there were lots of
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 6: restaurants with grease. Barrels they took, one they chopped him,
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 6: up they cleared it, off they rubbed off all the,
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 6: numbers and into the bay.
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 7: Went and he did not come. Out so, YEAH i,
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 7: MEAN i guess to wrap this kind of, Up.
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 8: John hardly knew.
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 7: Ya, man this just to throw shit out like, This,
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 7: yeah without any, evidence even if you SAY i have no,
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 7: evidence it's just a, hunch it's not responsible to. Me but,
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 7: again we're not telling stories, here weird document. Researchers so
• 2:28:10
  Speaker 7: it's a different type of.
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 6: Thing And i'm not saying that people don't have the.
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 6: Right if you want to, speculate speculate, away but don't
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 6: speculate to such an extent that you mislead. People don't
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 6: say that your speculation is the, truth or like WHAT
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 6: i tell you that one of the words that kids
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 6: like to use these, days. Vibing don't vibe your way
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 6: to the. Truth you find the, truth and that's by
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 6: digging into a lot of tedious files that are probably
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 6: going to be useless for the most, part but eventually
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 6: you might find something. Right and that's that's the hard,
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 6: part and that usually separates the people with hunches from
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 6: the people with.
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 4: EVIDENCE i think we're in the consensus, Here. Joe that
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 4: fuck those.
• 2:28:59
  Speaker 7: Guys that's what they said about us without knowing anything about.
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 5: Us and if you're going To, lancer you can go
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 5: buy your shirts and our merch store to fund those guys.
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 7: If you pay them nice trying to get part of if.
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 6: Section if you give.
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 7: Them a big enough super, chat they might even sign
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 7: up for.
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 5: You, Yeah, Comra and they mentioned us on the. Show
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 5: and the same guy that said that for your uh
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 5: stur just killed And. Connors, oh fuck those. Guys so
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 5: that's that's.
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 4: Hints THE t SHIRT i, THINK i, THINK i Think
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 4: i'm actually wearing it right. Now it's on my. BACK
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 4: i can't see back my.
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 7: Shirt, YEAH i think he thought he's done.
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 6: Me Whan i'll wear it proudly for the next.
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 7: Time. Nice, YEAH i think they thought we were lone
• 2:29:56
  Speaker 7: numbers or.
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 6: He did, well and that's just another, generally that's just
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 6: another unfortunate part of. It whether they knew or, not
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 6: they probably did know you. Weren't it's just that you just,
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 6: agree and you know, what you can't take this stuff personally.
• 2:30:15
  Speaker 4: Call them out on their. Bullshit, yeah believe a.
• 2:30:17
  Speaker 6: Lot of people take this stuff. Personally but what good
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 6: is that Can, okay so you're gonna feud with somebody,
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 6: else that's all improving, anything and now you're just wasting
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 6: your energy and time having an. Argument trust, ME i
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 6: have people And i'm sure you guys do, too who
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 6: cannot stand you because you will not bend to whatever
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 6: theory they, have whether it's the official theory or some
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 6: other unreasonable theory that isn't. True it doesn't matter who's
• 2:30:44
  Speaker 6: giving you the theory.
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 4: That's.
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 7: True.
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 4: True ship came. One, yeah that is ALL i, have.
• 2:30:52
  Speaker 7: Sir anything else you want to finish up with Their.
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 4: You want to plug your ship away real?
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 7: Quick?
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah YEAH i. Am and AS i Told Robin joe Off,
• 2:31:05
  Speaker 6: AIR i think earlier in the week when we were,
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 6: TALKING i will set up a merch. Page people keep telling.
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 6: Me you've been doing this for over a. Decade why
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 6: don't you have a merch. PAGE i, Will i'll set one.
• 2:31:16
  Speaker 6: Up i'll find a good. PARDY i JUST i get
• 2:31:18
  Speaker 6: into the research and AND i know you, know BUT
• 2:31:22
  Speaker 6: i want more people to. Know AND i appreciate you
• 2:31:24
  Speaker 6: give me a chance to. Plug so it's t pot dot,
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 6: com TP aak dot. Com and that's got my. Blog
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 6: that's got got some of my greatest hits of articles
• 2:31:32
  Speaker 6: that you might be interested. IN i have sections on
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 6: not ONLY jfk research and articles and, intelligence BUT i
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 6: also have A cia section WHERE i go into the
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 6: entire history of THE, cia the various forms it took
• 2:31:44
  Speaker 6: before becoming THE. CIA i have a section called The
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 6: CONSOLIDATED Cia, files WHERE i have seventy five so. Far
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 6: i'm hoping to get to one hundred of some of
• 2:31:53
  Speaker 6: the greatest HITS. Cia people you heard, of but people
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 6: you've never heard of. Probably and WHAT i did IS
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 6: i dug through all these the government. HAS i dug
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 6: through the FBI's. VAULT i dug through the CIA's offerings,
• 2:32:05
  Speaker 6: online and THEN i put them all into one place
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 6: with pictures that you're probably never going to see anywhere
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 6: else and tried to give you a new. Resource just
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 6: if you want to know more about THE, cia this
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 6: is how they. Function these are the people that actually
• 2:32:17
  Speaker 6: make it. Work like for, instance one of the PEOPLE
• 2:32:19
  Speaker 6: i cover is called and Good, pasture who most people
• 2:32:22
  Speaker 6: only know she's associated with the, jfkks but she is
• 2:32:26
  Speaker 6: a very prominent figure in intelligence that has been missed
• 2:32:29
  Speaker 6: by a lot of people that don't understand. That and
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 6: Good pasture was the secretary To William donovan during THE
• 2:32:35
  Speaker 6: oss and The coordinator's.
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 8: Office before THE.
• 2:32:39
  Speaker 6: Oss and she was in The Special Services, unit and
• 2:32:43
  Speaker 6: she was in The Central Intelligence group and then THE,
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 6: Cia so she was Influencing american intelligence for, decades a
• 2:32:51
  Speaker 6: woman who.
• 2:32:52
  Speaker 8: You, know they said couldn't happen at that. Time that's.
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 6: Nonsense if you were smart enough man or, woman and
• 2:32:58
  Speaker 6: you got into the right, group you could be very
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 6: effective and you could have a big. Influence but most
• 2:33:02
  Speaker 6: people don't even know her. Name they know that she's
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 6: something related to THE jfk, case which she, Is but
• 2:33:09
  Speaker 6: she made a much Of Mexico city wouldn't have happened
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 6: the way it did without, her you, Know Win. SCOTT
• 2:33:14
  Speaker 6: a lot of people try to talk about how Great
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 6: Win scott is and he was a good, administrator but
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 6: she was the hatchet. Man she was the one who
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 6: made sure what he wanted to happen, Happened.
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 7: Like, yeah kind of like a, gatekeeper do. Walking we
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 7: did get a response to do one more walking.
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 6: When he goes. Up when those of you who will
• 2:33:44
  Speaker 6: Watch True romance later see, it we'll get, it and
• 2:33:49
  Speaker 6: those who have not seen it will understand what you.
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 4: Have but.
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah another one of the part of the, speech when
• 2:33:55
  Speaker 6: he's talking about To donna's ober, uh So Donnis hopper
• 2:34:01
  Speaker 6: lies to, him and Because walkin's character has the knowledge
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 6: of the, pantomimes he's able to automatically know that he's.
• 2:34:08
  Speaker 6: Lying he just smiles at him and then he punches
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 6: them right in the nose like something that would break your,
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 6: nose and his nose starts bleeding in the hands them
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 6: up handkerchief and he's, like you like, that, huh because
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 6: that's as good as it's gonna, get and it's never
• 2:34:24
  Speaker 6: going to get that good.
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 8: Again that's ALL i got to offer.
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 4: YOU i love, It thank you so much.
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 5: Again links are in the description to the website And
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 5: Carmines books On, amazon where you can go check them
• 2:34:40
  Speaker 5: out and. Purchase, yeah, dude, yeah we cannot wait another
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 5: year for this.
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 6: Ship so, Yeah i'll be more than happy to jump
• 2:34:49
  Speaker 6: back on when you got another when you want to
• 2:34:51
  Speaker 6: some warm my boast.
• 2:34:52
  Speaker 4: Them, Absolutely it's been so fun now the.
• 2:34:57
  Speaker 7: Tangents the great conversation is the great insight that you.
• 2:35:01
  Speaker 6: Provide, uh and, well it's my pleasure to be with you.
• 2:35:05
  Speaker 6: Guys it's always cool to be you, know where we
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 6: can just talk and joke and be serious and you, know,
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 6: yeah hopefully provide something entertaining and actually useful with evidence
• 2:35:16
  Speaker 6: of the.
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 7: People, right and the audience doesn't know that we spent
• 2:35:21
  Speaker 7: an hour and a half On monday night doing the.
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 7: Same well we did conversation not with movies but. Close
• 2:35:33
  Speaker 7: but your, spots.
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 6: Don't it make your eyes?
• 2:35:36
  Speaker 7: Water my eyes are, Watering ACTUALLY i. Haven't, yeah thank, You.
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 7: SCOTT i don't think it's the longest. EPISODE i think
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 7: me And robb did two forty a couple of months.
• 2:35:52
  Speaker 4: Ago but it's.
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 7: Close it's up.
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 5: There, hey IT'S i think every second of this episode was.
• 2:36:00
  Speaker 5: Phenomenal so it's all.
• 2:36:02
  Speaker 6: Good and appreciate the warmth from the from the.
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 8: Audience.
• 2:36:08
  Speaker 6: Guys thank, You, yeah.
• 2:36:11
  Speaker 5: You know you welcome back. Anytime, Brother thank you so.
• 2:36:14
  Speaker 5: Much that's it for, us. Folks we'll see you next.
• 2:36:17
  Speaker 5: Week we'll have ed lad up on this. Place we're
• 2:36:21
  Speaker 5: gonna talk about uh.
• 2:36:24
  Speaker 4: Where are they THAT.
• 2:36:30
  Speaker 7: I was about to, say the McGuire.
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 4: SISTERS i got in my. Mind we're gonna go.
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 6: Into having an affair with the McGuire sister that And
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 6: connall like both that. Person i'd buy that for a
• 2:36:45
  Speaker 6: dollar if you, remember. Laughing, yes, yes you.
• 2:36:52
  Speaker 4: Know we'll have to talk about The david sisters and Dial. Ryder.
• 2:36:57
  Speaker 4: Uh tune in Next. Friday we're gonna have it on
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 4: Here live seven.
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 5: Pm but of course we'll be bent round before that
• 2:37:02
  Speaker 5: with the book review and the members only show Next.
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 4: Wednesday so with, that, folks thank, You, carmine thank You,
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 4: joe and we'll see you folks very.
• 2:37:12
  Speaker 10: Soon.
• 2:37:12
  Speaker 4: Peace thanks for