Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Crypto Tax Hell🔥with Mark Kohler Tax Expert🔥INTERVIEW

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Crypto Tax Hell🔥with Mark Kohler Tax Expert🔥INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, let's dive in. This is going to be a
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: good one today. We'll talk about some last minute things
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: that you guys can prep for as we head into
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: the year end. Are there any things you can do
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: in the cryptosphere. It's going to be a good one.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: You don't want to miss it. I am recording from
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: my home studio today, so it's going to be a
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: little bit. But I have a special guest that's going
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to be joining me here in a moment, and that
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: is Mark Kohler, who is a tax attorney and probably
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I think one of the best minds out there when
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: it comes to crypto strategies in general. And this will
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: start to set you up for what to expect in
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty six and maybe even some things that you
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: could do right now to prep When it comes to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Bitcoin holders, right now you are looking at most of
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: them that have been holding under one hundred and fifty
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: five days are of course in losses. That's I think
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of people right now buying in on this
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: last cycle move with bitcoin are in losses. So you
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: could look at maybe a tax loss harvest. This of
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: course is Mark himself. People say, I'll deal with tax
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: later that's like saying I'll put on my seat belt
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: after the crash. Tax strategy only works when you plan
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: before you hit the wall. So of course I got
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: to bring in mister Mark Kohler.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Merry Christmas, Happy holidays, Merry Christmas.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: About when you look at some of the biggest mistakes
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: right now that are being made out there. What's the
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: common one right now of a crypto investor, the big
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: mistake they're making right now as they prep for twenty
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: twenty six.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Wow, it's interesting.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I was just about to say, here's what the biggest
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: mistakes are regular taxpayers take. Yeah, then you added the
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: caveat a crypto investor, so he goes are two different answers. Yeah,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the biggest mistake I think crypto, and I might say one, two,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: or three because they're all about the same. And I
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: say this with all due respect. Is a crypto investor myself,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I have over six figures in crypto, and in fact,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I could say it could very well be closer to
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: seven figures in cryptocurrency and investments.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: I consult on it.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I've held annual crypto tax summits, I have my credentials.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Years and years of experience.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I say all that everybody not to brag, but there's
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: so many people that don't have that.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: That are giving advice.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: And so here's the number one problem I see in
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: the investor when it comes to tax planning. They take
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: advice from influencers, anybody out there on the airwaves that
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: is telling you to set up LLCs or certain types
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: of LLCs and take this right off and do this
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: right off and then making money off that recommendation. Those
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: are the last people you should be listening to. But
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: for some reason, in the crypto community, someone that has
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of crypto knowledge that I follow as well.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: There's several I could go list five to ten of them.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: They'll turn around and then give tax and legal advice
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: and sell you tax and legal products. And these investors
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: who follow them for one lane are willing to listen
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: to in another lane.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand. That's why we bring guys on like you.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: You guys do a great job. You know Rebecca Wallser
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Wallser out here in Tampa. She does a fantastic dish,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: but she's a tax attorney and they prep within all
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: those things, just like yourself. And if you guys haven't
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: visited Mark's website. Let me bring it up for you
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: because I think this is important. A lot of people
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: forget that tax law really begins with finding the right
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: attorney as well. So right there, KKOS Lawyers, Thank.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: You, Paul.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: You know what, everybody, We're cheaper were outper than nine
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: out of ten influencers quote unquote out there selling you
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: garbage in Wyoming or wherever. Our trifecta is for every
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: American that's trying to build wealth and save taxes and
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: is going to die someday.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Which is pretty much an everybody cent of adults out there.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Number two.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Crypto community, for some reason, thinks they have special treatment,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: special rules.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: You need a special LLC. No, it doesn't exist. It's
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: not there. I'm sorry, it's not.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Whenever someone starts to tell you it's different for you
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: and there's a special rule coming, or a special law
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: or a special rig those are all hopeful wishes saying it,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: hoping it's going to come true.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: It's not ye to me.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: The crypto community is growing up. We're finding it on
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: our own channel. We're finding regular investors who are now
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: getting into crypto. They've already been exposed to this kind
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of stuff before, so they're old hands. Then you have
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: people who have maybe made it in crypto and are
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: considering investing in other assets real estate, businesses, et cetera,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: you know, because they've got some money. Now when you
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: look at capital gains against your asset gains for the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: year or capital gains or I should say individual tax
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: deductions that could be there of harvesting or losses. But
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't win anything. Are there two different baskets I
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: can deduct from in terms of tax lost harvest?
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Right now, a couple of.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Things you can be doing before we jump into this
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: capital gains concept. One is using your wroth ira, your
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: wroth four oh one k to buy crypto first, once
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: you knock out your seven or eight grand, of which
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: you still buy crypto.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Within you are building this.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Tax free ATM that you will never ever ever regret.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: And if you say, well, I want those strategy as
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I'm too young and I'm never going to die and
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to be, no, you can.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: There's so many things to do with a roth you
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: don't even know.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: The second thing is and I love that you said this, Paul,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Crypto investors, you've got to get over being a one
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: trick pony thinking.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: That's all crypto bingo.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: When you make money as a crypto investor, freaking a
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: peel off twenty thirty fifty percent and go invest in
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: other asset classes a small business.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Real estate.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, do I need to not tell you what
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: the best tax haven of all is, and it's real estate.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I have so many real crypto investors that have made
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: millions in crypto and made tens of millions in real
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: estate and have legitimately not paid taxes on their real
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: estate gains because there's more strategies there. You want to
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: feel special, strive, buy in real estate. Crypto's not going
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: to give it to you.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: But most people can't go out and buy it in
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the next two or three months. Maybe they're in the
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: process of trying to, you know, wrap up twenty five,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: getting in and setting the tone for twenty twenty six. Well,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: let me go back to the capital gains for a second.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, I'd like I wanted to go there too, when
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: you're ready.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so cap gains. I've been investing in crypto and
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to take some capital gains. But I had
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: some old coins that absolutely tanked my big coin did okay.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: My ethereum did okay, but my avalanche not so well,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: and I lost you know, let's just call it twenty grand.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: But I've gained forty grand over here on my other assets.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Let's just use those numbers. Do I have a tax loss?
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Harvest there?
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: I'm going to give you some good news and bad news. Yep.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: The good news is if any of you have a loss,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: we call it a built in loss, a built in
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: loss on any of your crypto or stock. Yep, sell
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: it and harvest that loss and use it against any
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: capital gains one to one right, yeah, yeah, offsets a
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: dollar for a dollar and then rebuy any crypto that
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: you're stoked on. And you don't have to wash sell rules,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: so you can just currently sell it, take a loss,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: harvest it, and rebuy whatever the hell you just sold
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: with stock. You got to wait thirty days, then go
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: buy it in thirty days and yeah, maybe it goes
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: up a few percent or down or whatever, deal with it.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: Just buy it in thirty days, yep. So harvest your losses.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: That's it. People.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: If you are a crypto indor there's nothing else now.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: If you have a small business, if you have some
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: real estate. If you're going to buy some real estate.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, people, the world is your oyster.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: The other one that you hit on, which I think
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: is interesting on a tweet that we grabbed. Can you
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: stake your crypto tax free?
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: No?
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Staking is income, but there's a strategy inside the roth
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: IRA for oh one k your growth can be shielded.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: It's not just what you earn, it's where you earn it.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: So yields inside of staking are taxable, just like any
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: other gain out there. Is that correct?
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Anybody out there staking? You make money every minute, every day,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: every hour, you're going to be.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Taxed on it.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I earned ethereum, but I didn't sell. It doesn't matter.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: You got paid ethereum and your staking program that you joined,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and you're going to have to use tax bit or
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: whatever software you're using to track all of your gains
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: and losses this last year.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Upload all of your wallets.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Don't get freaked out with security, Just get your tax
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: reports done. Insider wroth Ira. It depends on how the
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: staking is embarked on. If you're running to annoy the
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: nodes and you're involved in the staking as an operator
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: and a note operator, it is taxable inside your wroth IRA, Okay,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: not recommend that. In fact, in Gemini, which is our
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: partner at directed IRA, where I've got hundreds of thousands
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: of dollars in my crypto wroth, they do not allow staking,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: which I agree with.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: It's okay. It's a scary area.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Because, like you just said, Paul, staking is income. Your
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: wrath is not built to be a business. Your wroth
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: is built to invest. Staking can be active versus practice.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: One of those things that everybody's asking is around the
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: staking is taxable but not liquid tokens. I mean, this
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: is the point you just answered right there. It doesn't
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: matter what it is that's coming. If it's income, it's income.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Yep, yea yeah, and that's okay. Well I'm not going
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: to stay because I pay taxes on it. Okay.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I'd rather make a dollar. Yeah, let's make max of
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: thirty cents than not make anything.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: What do you think about these stable coin vaults? Okay,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: So I've got stable coins USDC or I'm holding tether
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: or RL USD and I go into a vault since
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: they give you a vault token upon the deposit, did
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I sell my USDC and the income that's in there
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that's getting revenue. Is that taxable? How would a vault work?
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: It astonishes me. Every three months.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I find a new product, a new product, a new strategy,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: and whoever is usually behind it has no concept of
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: what's taxed and what's not. I don't know on this
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: vault thing. Here's did the underlying asset change from one
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: token to another?
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, But this is stable coin, so it's technically not
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a sale for profit. It's a you know, you're just
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: translating one dollar for something else, and now that something
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: else is earning income if you.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Take US dollars and buy something that's not taxable.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: But what about USDC inside of it? So an example
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: would be, let me share this with you. This is
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: kai finance, all right, So I can drop USDC in here.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: These are vaults that I can drop into, deposit them,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: and I can start earning.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: Let's start there.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Whenever someone is giving you rewards, interest, dividends, blah blah blah,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: whatever name you want to cook up in the middle
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: of the night, smoking weed, it's still going to be taxable.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: People. Doesn't sound like US dollar to mean, it sounds
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: like a lot.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: It is an alter. It's a you know, a steak token.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: In essence, they give you something in exchange for it
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: that gets a reward. You can still exit out of it,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: get your USDC back, but you've gained whatever you've achieved,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: and we'll call it staking rewards, which to me has
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: always been a case of listen, if you're earning money,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: it's going to be taxable whatever your taxable rate is, period.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: What about?
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, So beyond that, let's get into some of these
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: rules around gambling. Of course, you know the tax implications
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: for gambling. Now on the earnings that you have and
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: or the losses that you have. You pay on earnings,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: but you don't get to tax deduct the losses. Okay.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: So the question is does poly market are they taxed
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: as gambling? Meaning if I lost money in poly market,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: would that be a digital asset investment that I lost
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: money on or would it be a gambling play that
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I lost money.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Let's clarify everything first with the one big beautiful bill
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that the old there was a change in the law
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: tax law according to gambling earnings and losses. The old
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: rule said if I go lose money at the casino,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I can deduct those losses.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: One hundred percent against any gains.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Right, So if I went gambling and didn't make any money,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: those losses can't help me anywhere else. But if I
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: made a hundred grand gambling and I had one hundred
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: grand in losses, I pay zero tax on my gambling.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Were great, There you go.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: But the new law says it's not like those losses
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: aren't deductible anymore. Right, but ninety percent are only deductible.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: So if I have one hundred grand in gains and
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I have one hundred grand and losses, I can only
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: deduct ninety thousands of those losses against the one hundred
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and so now I have ten thousand dollars of gain. Okay, Okay,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: now that's gambling. Some may say investing in Wall Street
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: is gambling. Some may say buying crypto is gambling.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: Sure, some may say.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Buying poly you're a thane, poly polly and a poly
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: shit whatever they want to call it.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: I do not care. Is that a crypto tokenized coin?
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's not gambling as much as some people may
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: think it is.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: They bought an asset, it either went up or went down.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: But what about a prediction market?
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: The prediction market is what we're talking about poly market
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: prediction market, Calshi prediction market. These are available out there
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: on Robinhood and coinbase. Now to where I can go
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: on who's going to be the FED chair? If I
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: lose that money, what happens? Can I take it? Or
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: is it just gambling loss?
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, if there's investing and a game of chance. If
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I'm gambling on who Donald Trump might choose as the
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: next Fed secretary, for I'm gambling on who the Packers
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: are going to choose as a quarterback this weekend and
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: go to DraftKings, that is based on a game of chance.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: I have no control.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: There is no investment mechanism of earnings or a business model.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: There's nothing.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: So if I go over here and I'm betting on
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: if Snoop Dogg's going to drop a new coin this year,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: then that is a game of chance. So I don't
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: know the example you're bringing up. Would you define it
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: as a game of chance based on a universal something
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: out of my control or is it a money making opportunity?
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know. If you're wagering, yes, you are on
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: these your prediction markets, their prediction markets. So I believe
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that this is going to get hit with taxes just
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: like anything else. The question is does it fall into
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: the gambling rule that changes the way you conduct deduct losses.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So that's the real question, because why would you invest
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: in a bet, let's say, just we'll go with the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: super Bowl on polymarket, and why would you invest in
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: that versus just investing in an asset that you may
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: win or lose on anyway, and at least on the asset,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: depending on your gains, you're still going to get a
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: tax benefit. So that's the that thing that is a
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: little bit. I think that we are going to see
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: some regulation on it this year for sure. Speaking of that,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I'll let you off the hook. We're gonna we're going
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: to dive into that.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I would you say if anybody with the one thing
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: you said in there to go, I guess it's going
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: to be, and it is going to be.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: There's no guess if.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I buy anything based on a game of chance, or
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: in earnings or anything futures, I'm going to bet on
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: the future price of week next year? Is that gambling? No,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I'm buying a future. I'm buying this wondering what the
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: price of week's going to be next year. It's called
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: a future commodities market. That's a whole other world. Then
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: if there's odds, you know, like, oh, it's two to one,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: it's free to one, it's this or that, it's wagering.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: If you make money, are you going to pay tax? Hell?
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, If you lose, you can only deduct ninety percent
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: of your loss.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Easy, Okay, let's I'm going to throw one at you.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: That is what are again, more of the odds. Do
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: you think we'll ever see the kind of moves that
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: we've seen in Japan where they came in. They were
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: at a I think it was a fifty percent on
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: crypto tax. They dropped it down to a twenty flat.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Do you think we'll see something like that coming from
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: this administration, of flat tax on crypto gains or some
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: sort of beneficial tool for digital assets.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: No.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: No, I will bet you ten thousand dollars Paul. There
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: will never be legislation, certainly under Trump. I can't guess what.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: You know, crazy administration?
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I be next.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think Trump's administration is crazy. Crypto investors are
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: not going to get a special tax rate.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Get over it.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: It's not going to happen ever, And I'm going to
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: bet ten thousand dollars with Paul.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: That's wagering. Everybody, that's wagering. And if I if Paul
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: wins lose.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: You're only going to get ninety percent of that.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: That's right, and you have to claim ten thousand dollars
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: a game?
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Will I will ten ninety nine year ass No, there
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: is no special tax rate for crying aloud. But you
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: guys don't amount of brain power that went into the
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: one big beautiful bill and how it got on the
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: table for about three nanoseconds and was dismissed.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: It's not getting back there.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: People, all right, Well, well you have that, and then
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: of course you have these This is posturing to me,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: which is what we see all the time in the
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: crypto community. I'll share this tweet with you, Mark to
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: kind of position you on this. And this, of course
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: is an Arizona senator proposing exempting bitcoin and crypto from taxes.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: But they're doing it at the state tax so I
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: don't know if that is beneficial. But maybe there are
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: some states out there. But if you hate living, if
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: you live in Texas or Florida or Tennessee, you don't
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: have that anyway, so do you think there's more of
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: this happening coming down?
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: There is nothing that's going to stop a politician from
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: trying to get attention and wow their base with crazy legislation.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: And there's been a crypto tax bill every year.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Good for them, but going to be a struggle when
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you get into the RUS in terms of their tax code.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Speaking of that tariff rebates, you think we'll get one? No, no,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: no tear effy bait either.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: I would mark you are the Scrooge.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Now I've decided you're the Scrooge of Christmas.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: You know. Here, here's what I know.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I'm being kind of a you know, I'm going to
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: get the comments in your post are going to be like.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Why do you not believe? Why does he not guys?
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I just for twenty five years, I've been practicing tax
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: law on main Street America. I have done tens of
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: thousands of consultations. Our law office does tens of times.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: We consult with senators and representatives in Congress as well
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: as its state and local levels.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: We have a lobby arm to our firm.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to let everybody I've written books on this,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: are written articles. I have thousands and thousands of podcast
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: time and YouTube time.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: I am out there.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Advocating for you people. I want to save taxes. I
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: look for every possible loophole in the world. What I
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: want to challenge you here is just take a tenth
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: of the time a tenth of the time you spend
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: talking about what all these wishes are for crypto and
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out what the crypto market's going to do,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: and what someone does here or someone does there.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: Just take a tenth of.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: That time and think about a business idea and go
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: make some freaking money.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Just a little.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: You don't have to get rich, but now you have
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: a small business operation and with that profit from that
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: tenth of the tony, you're not gonna waste listening to
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: a new listen new podcast of somebody talking about how
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: XRP is amazing, which I think it is, and come
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: over here and spend that time and make a little money.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: And with that money, don't spend it, go buy a
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: little piece of real estate.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Last question, digital asset loans. I've got all this wealth
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: setting in here. I don't want to sell and take
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: that capital gains. I don't need to sell. Should I
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: take a loan? On my digital asset and fund my lifestyle.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Why what are you gonna do with Oh and you
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: said fund a lifestyle? What are you crazy?
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: No? But sure yourself in your head in the head
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: right now. Hell, I'm gonna go borrow. That's like borrowing
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: against my house to go on the life cruise and
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: pay for my crap.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Well, as you know Kevin o'larry, are some of these
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: guys out here? I mean you go to Kawasaki or
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you know Robert Kiyosaki out there all the time going
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: take loans against never sell and this is your income.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, okay, now Robert Kesaki and I were almost
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: neighbors and we go we go out to dinner.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: I love Robert here? Who whoa warro woh wo?
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: People do not compare borrowing against digital assets to the
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: same thing as real estate, And don't you dare start
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: to say bitcoin is a stable as real estate.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: We have very little track this year.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Going after they're going after gold and digital assets now
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and the loan against.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Them, who's they?
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: What what we're seeing is more of these traditional real
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: estate guys have started to look at digital assets in
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the same vein as a real estate investment and taking
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: loans against it with you know, on the horizon of
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: selling it in ten, fifteen, twenty or never years. Going
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: forward to.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: These, I would say those are digital assets people trying
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: to do what the real estate.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Community has done.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: The far, far majority of real estate investors do not
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: borrow against real estate to fund their lifestyle. They borrow
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: against their real estate to buy more real estate to
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: create cash flow that funds their Why couldn't you do.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: That with bitcoin? You leverage or if let's assume it's
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: a bitcoin or ethereum or whatever it might be, where
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: you're taking that asset and just flipping it over into
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: the asset itself because it's a great asset to buy.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: Nope, No, not what I'm saying. People do not twist.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: I know, Paul, this is good.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, real estate that is creating cash flow and it
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: grows in value. I'm going to peel off the equity
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: and buy more real estate that creates cash flow that
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: funds my life.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, I am not.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Playing the appreciation game. Okitcoin that is not producing me
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: cash flow. I am not going to borrow against it
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: to go live on and buy more Bitcoin that is
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: not creating me cash flow? Hell no, No, you want
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: to borrow against bitcoin and go buy a hard asset
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: that can create you cash flow? I might hear that out, okay,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: but I'm not going to buy more effing bitcoin, that's all.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: It's a stack of cards and the whole thing could
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: fall buy hard assets with that loan.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: What about gold? Silver? What do you think if.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I want to borrow against gold to go borrow buy
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: a different hard asset that creates cash flow?
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Love it? Knock yourself out borrowing against the same masset
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: to buy more of it? Yeah, I mean, yeah, this
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: is This is called the margin account in Wall Street.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Do we need to watch film of people in nineteen
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: twenties jumping out of buildings.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they were borrowing against.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: The very asset they were invested in to buy more. Again,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: it's called the margin account. Don't do it?
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Robert Kosaki does not say do that? Hell no?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So okay. So last question mark that I want
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: to get to is because a lot of viewers think
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: that when they go to their tax attorneys or their
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: tax advisors, that the tax advisors need to know a
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: little bit about what digital assets are and can guide
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: them in the right direction. What happens. First of all,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: what should someone do if their tax person has no
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: experience with crypto or digital assets and they're just going
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: in blind, which.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Is the yeah, fire them.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: If you are into import export, you've got to have
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: an account that understands that. If you're into real estate,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: you need to have a tax advisor that understands real estate.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: If you're a dentist, a doctor, you need to so
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: you guys know where I'm going. If you own crypto
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: and you're active in trading crypto and you're staking, and
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: you're doing this and that, and you're buying crypto, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: you're roth ira and you're growing and building a crypto portfolio,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: your tax advisor should understand crypto tax. There's no such
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: thing as crypto taxation tax strategies that could work for
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: the crypto. So I have created a network of tax
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: advisors around the country, over fifteen hundred now trained on
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: twelve different modules, one of which is cryptocurrency. They have
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: to go through a nine hundred quiz questions, pass a
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: ninety percent, and then take a final which includes everything
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I've ever learned on crypto, from crypto mining to staking
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: to capital gains, to defy to trading short term gains,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: long term get everything they have to take all these
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: collasses on cryptocurrency taxation and then pass a test with
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: ninety percent and then attend trainings with me every week.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: You all can hire any one of them. I don't
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: make any money on what you pay them. Interview them
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: till you find the perfect one. Go to main Street
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: tax net Pro network, the main Street tax pro network
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: and interview.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: And find one.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: And find a tax advisor that understands crypto and they're
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: going to get you on a software like coin Ledger,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: tax Ban any of those to help track your software,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: you your trades, and they will do wonders for you.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: I like it.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I like it. It's the certified tax advisor network out there.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the website. I'll bring it up here
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: tax Advisor Network dot Mark Jkohler. You guys can start
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: learning finding an advisor there. So learn a little bit
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: more there.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Mark.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: First of all, thank you so much for coming in.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I know it's a short weekend, it's a holiday week
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: and you're out there on the ranch and join maybe
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: roping some cows and stuff, having some fun.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Paul, I want to see thanks for having me, and
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I know I've been a little angsty today because I
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: just feel more and more I cannot pull punches on
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: helping the crypto community catch the vision of how amazing
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: cryptocurrency is and having a reality check of what your
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: choices and options are Exactlyase not listen to someone that
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: is not in this lane. Do not listen to me
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: on whether or not you should buy crypto, but listen
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: to me on how you're.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Going to get taxed on it. And you've got to
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: use that same rule of thumb with everybody you listen to.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: You guys know what to do. We'll leave a link
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: down below for Mark and his team, so learn a
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: little bit more there. Mark, thanks so much for coming in.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: We will catch you next time right here on the
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Paul Baron Show.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Take care, Thanks Paul,