Latest / Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!! / teacher and mental health advocate the ONE!! the only Jessica

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teacher and mental health advocate the ONE!! the only Jessica · Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!!

• peter: Show Pete: signing up so the Pete first anxiety my guest today is an educator a mom from California she's also on a healing journey through who has dealt with severe anxiety and oppression please welcome in the one the only Jessica shaker Jessica welcome in Jessica Shaker: Hi, thank you for having me. Pete: So Jessica is visiting us from TikTok now. She runs her own little live room in there where she promotes mental health, educates people and things like that too. know, things like that too. She's been through suicide attempts as well herself and she's tried to break the stigma as well. So I invited her here because I said, you know, why not? Let's get to know her a little bit better. She's actually a good friend, Marin from, you know, the, what is her name? I don't even remember her podcast, I even call it anymore. Anyways, but Jessica here is actually an interesting person. I met her through TikTok and I wanted to bring her in here because I want to highlight what she's doing. So Jessica, why don't you tell everybody a little more about yourself? Jessica Shaker: Yeah, so I've been a teacher for 12 years, but I started doing TikTok really to try to build up the support group that I needed. I couldn't find a support group that would really help me with mental health in my town. And so I just tried to create it by creating a community where we can provide support for one another. So I'm not a therapist, but I share what I know and hopes it's going to help some other people. And I love learning from other people as well. Pete: Yeah, you know, and that's what I like about you is that you're just the realism of everything that goes on. You're always really upbeat. And in fact, you're educating these guys on different things as you go. You know, and it's it was interesting because, like I said, Baron's the one that told me about you. And I was like, OK, I'll go check it out. Why not? You know, and then I came in, I interacted with you for a little bit. I was watching some of your lives. I try to catch them in your life, too, to see. You know what? I really like the energy, know, and just the way you do things. You're always positive and posting people up and things like that too. But you know, it's always interesting to hear the story behind the person. So I know we talk, I know you talk about your description where you talk about you. You've had been there. You've been to the edge of suicide. Is there only been the one time you've attempted to do that? Jessica Shaker: There's only been one actual attempt. I had like months on end of the thoughts, but only one actual attempt. Pete: Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's it's it's hard because you can't talk about that on TikTok and tell people the real story because, know, I understand their point of view, but I think at the same time, it's a real subject that you're talking about. You're talking about from your own experiences and things like that. So, you know, it gets interesting because I'm a two time survivor myself. So, you know, like a lot of people who know it outside of TikTok know my story. and lot of this stuff like that too, but then TikTok limits what you can say, which I mean, I, at the same time, understand what they're doing, but at the same time, it's like, if you're doing it from the educational aspect of, listen, I've been there, I know what it's like, you know, guys, you know, I can relate to you. I feel like, you know, they censor a little too much when it comes to that kind of stuff. Do you feel that same way too? Jessica Shaker: Yeah, it's been one of the most frustrating things for me about being on TikTok is that I feel like that's a place where I've been able to build a good platform. So I want to stay, but I do think I might have to diversify because it feels like it's perpetuating the stigma. when we're censoring certain words that we can't say, I tried to talk about it anyways, but I have to talk about it in euphemisms. And that really bothers me because I know we can help people if we can talk about it. and I hate that I have to speak in code or I hate that if other people bring things up. that I have to tell them not to type certain words in the chat because it just feels like invalidating. I'm like, no, I do really care. It's just, we have to play by their rules and that's really hard. Pete: Yeah, you know, I'm learning the insights and outs of it too. I'm a part of one of the agencies. So like, I learn all the stuff they teach us that TikTok's telling them. And it's like, you know, they're like, well, you can't say that word for these reasons. I'm like, but we're having an actual conversation about something real, you know? And when I started doing the show in the beginning, I was doing live interviews on TikTok, but then I had to stop because when the conversations got too real, they didn't like all that kind of stuff. And it was like... You know, and I really like had to make a decision like integrity of like, do I really want to continue to do this kind of cat and mouse kind of game of am I going to get banned after the first season of doing this show? You know, and we were live on YouTube. So it's like, no. Yeah. So I stopped doing lives all together just because I felt like to have a real conversation, a closed settings, more intimate is personal. And, know, and then people can come in here and say anything they want. And I feel like people are going to judge them for what they're saying, because this is your actual thoughts, you know. You have to be a certain person. With TikTok, have to kind of like, like you said, you have to code word a lot of stuff. But in here, it's a little different. You can get away with saying the actual things you want to say. And people need to understand that when they're listening to this interview. It's not to make you look like anything other than just Jessica. Like, this is who Jessica is. Jessica wishes she could tell you these certain things. But here's the place where you can say these kind of things. So have you always had a severe depression and anxiety and things like that? Or is that something you developed over time? Jessica Shaker: I suspect I probably have had anxiety my whole life, but I only got diagnosed with it like four years ago. And I only got diagnosed with depression about four years ago as well. And so I don't think I've been depressed my whole life. But I think the last four years I had like two years that just really felt like a mental health crisis. Pete: Yeah. Yeah, so let me ask you this though. You as a teacher, do you guys discuss mental health at all with the kids? I don't know. What grade do you teach? Jessica Shaker: I teach fifth grade, so I teach 10 year olds. And yes, Pete: Okay, so you guys Jessica Shaker: so I know like when I was a kid, I didn't learn any of this in school, but as a teacher now we teach social emotional learning. So we talk about like coping skills for dealing with anxiety and stress. We don't get into like suicide and things like that at this age, even though it can impact people that age. But we do talk just in general about feelings and regulating our feelings and things like that. Pete: So did you know that the second most likely people to commit suicide are 10 to 14 Euro boys? Jessica Shaker: Well, so that's the thing is I feel like it should be talked about more with kids because it does impact them. So we as teachers go through a training every single year about like noticing the signs and about reporting like any type of anything that a student might say, reporting it to our counselor for like a formal risk assessment kind of thing. And so it's interesting that we don't talk about it more like head on. Pete: Yeah, yeah, you know and they don't teach emotional regulation to kids either which I think is kind of interesting as well because even at the age of 10 I think it's the perfect time to start teaching them how to understand what these feelings are they're having and you know and things like that too but there are people out there that are doing interesting things with that kind of area you know Shannon Curtis is one of them that comes to mind she has a book called No More Monsters Under the Bed and the basic idea of the book is it's a children's book format but it teaches the adult and the child like emotional regulation, like what these different feelings are, their feeling and things like that too. You know, which is a great idea, you know, just since you know, you're working in that range, maybe that's a good idea for a book for you to share with them and just say, you know, hey, and then not even know what they're even reading. It's not even like it's a kid's book. So it's not even like they're going to understand, but it will teach both the kid and the parent exactly the same thing. Cause at that age, you know, sometimes the parents are reading the books to the kids or the kids are reading the books. You know what I mean? Like they could start learning things without even realizing they're learning anything. Jessica Shaker: So one of the things that we do every day is the zones of regulation. And I've heard mixed reviews of how people feel about that, but it's just basically connecting our feelings to a color. So red would be angry, blue is sad, green you're feeling good and calm, and then yellow you're feeling like a little bit anxious. And so no one is ever required to share, but all the students get an opportunity to share how they're feeling if they want to. And then the class has brainstormed like an anxiety, like coping tools, toolbox of all the different things that they can do. if they're in one of those more difficult colors. But we talk about like how all of those feelings are valid and you don't have to be in the green zone all the time. But at the same time, we don't really like being in the red zone, the blue zone that often. So what can we do to be able to get back out of it? Pete: Yeah, I absolutely love that. think that's a really cool idea to teach them colors. That way they have a better idea associated with something. And I think it hats off because you're an educator, so you have to work around certain rules when it comes to these things. But the fact that you guys are at least teaching them something at this point, I think it's a great idea. Because when I was a kid, we didn't even talk about that kind of stuff. Hell, they don't even teach basic economics here in Texas anymore than I know of. These kids don't know half the stuff they should know coming out of schools. So I think that what you're doing is really great. And like I said, I love it though that you're a teacher though, because you understand from the different aspect of most people do like what it's like trying to teach them these kids every day, these things without crossing any boundaries that are gonna upset somebody. Jessica Shaker: And it's hard because, you know, every student comes from their own family that has their own set of beliefs and their own approach Pete: Mm-hmm. Jessica Shaker: at mental health and what they believe culturally and whether there's any stigma there. And so like I can teach them what I know about grace and self-compassion and embracing imperfection, but that doesn't always necessarily align. with families who maybe believe in striving for perfection and achievement at all costs. And so finding that balance between me influencing how they think about things at school while also respecting that the parent has their own approach to it as well. Pete: Yeah, yeah, you know, and there's a great resource. don't know if you ever heard of it. It's called the help hub. Co. There's a woman named Lisa Sugarman that put together the site and like she literally covers everything that your biggest fear is. And like, you know, like, OK, somebody's religious beliefs are all on there, all the different cultures. Hey, listen, they believe these certain things. She took the time to figure all these things out. So, you know, it's a great little option for you to use to when you're when you're looking at that kind of thing for people that are looking for help. and you're like, well, I don't know where to send them. Now you can send them there because it has everything broken down into categories. I think it even has Canada on there too, if I remember right. You know, things like that too. 988's obviously listed on there because that's a great one for people that need it and everything like that. But it also breaks it down by, you know, different religious beliefs and things like that too. And Lisa took the time to really think about a lot of this stuff because she was a guest on the show and we were talking about that. You know and she was telling me that you know though if she was sitting there putting on paper if you like maybe five or six miles long of just this stuff she compiled all into this one website now with all the different little tabs and all the little sections and things like that are really cool things that you can add to your you know your list of things you tell people about because not a lot of people knew what it was and I know they just joined forces with What's the recovery comm or something like that? She just partnered with them, you know, and they were basically talking about how to supercharge it even further, you know and things like that too. I mean, there's an accurate option too. I don't know if you ever heard of that one. Jessica Shaker: Yeah, yeah, I had heard of it only when I connected with Natasha Layton, who I think co-host the Survivors podcast with her. And so then I heard about Pete: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Jessica Shaker: it, but it was the first time I'd ever heard about it. And I think one of the hardest things in navigating a mental health crisis is that you don't really know where to turn and you don't really know what resources are available. And you're trying to negotiate figuring all of that out at a time when you have very limited energy and limited motivation. and perhaps a lot of anxiety about making these phone calls and things like that. So I really like the idea of having more organized information all in one place for people to access and we just need to get the word out. Pete: Yeah, so let me ask you this question though. You're a mom, so do you have the same thoughts with your own kids? Do you talk to them regularly about it? I'm not sure how old they are, so that's why I asked that question kind of loosely. Jessica Shaker: Yeah, so I have a five and seven year old daughter and they both know that I go to therapy. That is something I don't want stigmatized. I've actually taken them both to their own like child therapists already. They don't go regularly, but they've tried it out. And I think it's really important because unfortunately I know that like my anxiety can be genetic as much as I hope they don't get it. I know that they might. And so I'm really trying to be proactive about it. So we talk a lot, they know that I have anxiety. I haven't mentioned to them that I have depression yet, but I think there will be a time that we have that conversation. But I really try to be an open book without like oversharing. I never wanna like burden them with my feelings and things like that, but just letting them know that it is normal to get support for your mental health. I think it's gonna be really important because I don't want them to end up having the same crisis that I did if I can prevent it. Pete: Yeah, yeah, you know, that's true though. And I mean, they're still young, so you can work them into it little by little and, you know, start teaching them, you know, emotional regulation and things like that. So they know the feelings they're feeling and, you know, and have open conversations with them. At that way, they at least they know they have a safe place to come talk to you about these things. And you're not going to start panicking in the moment if something happens because you already go through it kind of yourself a little bit. And, you know, and at the same time, they're going to see you going through it and go, OK, well, now I understand what mom is dealing with. and how come mom's not feeling happy as usual as she is today and things like that too, which is great because as kids as early as four start really paying attention to what you're doing, and they're watching everything you're doing, so they're watching your interactions with everybody else and all that stuff and you explaining it to them and getting them a little bit of understanding of it. I think it puts them ahead of everybody else because even these younger kids now, if we start teaching them now later on, they'll know how to identify these problems and we can hopefully start bringing this number down because it's... It's really insane that 10 to 14 is where we're where the number is rising at. Traumatically, you know, and it's it's probably because honestly, because the Internet, if you think about it, because now instead of like when we were kids, you know, we only had like the good calls from the phone, you see him in person and then you had AOL, which even was like the little bit introduction to the Internet. You really don't have really much like social media yet at that time. So like we had less ways for people to bully you. Now it's like, God, you can list them on one hand of just different places these guys can get attacked from. You know, and it's really scary because what are we teaching these kids by the way we act like that? Jessica Shaker: And a lot of students, even though like my students are 10 years old, so they shouldn't be on social media, but a lot of them are. So they're getting exposed to a whole lot even at an age where I'm pretty sure it's against like the guidelines to be having an account. Pete: Yeah, yeah, we don't know how that works. You can lie about your age and everything else like that and then they'll let you on and then it's like, what are they seeing from there? It's honestly really scary these days because they have so much misinformation that floats around. These people are watching, you know, in these different videos, they start seeing people putting out, you know, their stuff they're seeing. They shouldn't probably see it at 10 year old's age, you know, like, oh, my wife killed themselves or, my wife can assume. All these different things that just pop up at random that they, you know, They don't know what they experienced. They're watching this going, well, what the heck does that mean? And then they're going to start searching with that word beans, you know? And then they're going to come across a video, you know, it's going to start showing them and explaining things to them that, you know, maybe they're having those same feelings. like, well, maybe I'm thinking the same thing they are. And maybe that's not the case, you know? But they don't know how to tell what's the difference between fact and crap at that point because they're seeing it. They're not sure, you know? And that's the that's a parent's Jessica Shaker: Yeah. Pete: worst nightmare. So, you know, these kids are seeing stuff, you know, that that they're not, you're not, yourself is not teaching them that these other kids are seeing, they're going, oh, well, I think this is right, you know, or watching them like how they, how they treat women, especially having daughters, you know, you have to worry about like how they sexualize women these days on the internet, you know, like these young girls are seeing how, oh, well, if I look pretty, guys will like me better when it's really not the case of how it should go, you know? Jessica Shaker: Yeah. And, and my kids are like dreaming of the day that they can have TikTok. And I'm like, you're not going to have TikTok for a long, long, long, long time until you're like older teenagers. and it's interesting because they're like, mommy's on TikTok. want to make videos. Nope. You're not, I do not post my kids on the internet. I just keep it completely separate, just for their privacy and things like that. But, yeah, I can see. And I mean, there, there is a huge positive side to it. Like you were saying, if we, lean on the good videos, but yeah, if you're just scrolling, you don't know what you're gonna come across. Pete: Yeah, God, the algorithm can be unforgiving, especially when you start looking at the wrong things and, you know, they start showing up and then it's like, then you go to Instagram where it could get really worse and then you go to X where they're just showing everything there. There's no hold spart on that site whatsoever, man. You could watch people doing sexual acts on there and it's like, wait, wait, what the hell did I just come onto? I thought it was on the internet. I didn't think I was on a porno site at this point. And you know, these kids don't know how to decipher the difference between that, you know? And then they see these young men are watching these guys and these dudes at these very interesting point of views where they decide to start degrading women. And it's like, yeah, that's really not how this goes, fellas. We're not supposed to be doing these kind of things. But let's keep telling these kids that, you know. And then you hear all this like really oddball rhetoric about, you know, different things like mental health or the lady was doing the thing where she was celebrating how, you know, Ben Smith, the health month or whatever it was when she made that video where it just went completely. viral for all the wrong reasons and she was like, Jessica Shaker: Mm. Pete: oh, well, I'm going to go into hiding all of a sudden. And then her family's having to clean up her mess. And it's like, you don't think about these things for you're going to do it? Like, come on now. Jessica Shaker: Yeah, yeah, for a long time, I was like scared to share my story on the internet because I was afraid of how people would respond. I was afraid of if my students' families would find it or if my students might somehow come across it, even though I don't have my last name on TikTok for that reason because I don't want my students to watch my videos. But Pete: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica Shaker: I would worry about it. I would worry about, they going to judge me? Are they going to see me differently? And then eventually I just decided, I think the impact I can make helping people. is worth it and I'm just tired of hiding and tired of feeling judged so I'm just going to live my truth and if people have a problem with it, well. Pete: Yeah, you know you as an educator too, that's the other thing you have to worry about. It's like, you know, what they find out about this. It's like I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm just sharing my story. Am I sharing it to my students? No, I'm not sharing it to them. I didn't put it out there from the find. Now if they come across it, OK, well, it's the Internet. What would you like me to do? I can't I can't control what they look at on the Internet, you know, and I and a lot of people have the same similar story you do because a lot of people are like, well, I don't want to share it because like I do a side project with the co-host and her story. is one of the probably wildest things I've heard. She was taking like 17 medications. She's schizoaffective. her story goes to her whole thing of symptoms she deals with that's just out there. And then she was telling people like, hey, my story about it and they're going, well, go to the hospital. You're crazy. These things. And she's like, well, hey, guess what? Too late. I've already done all these things. What else you got for me? And it's... Jessica Shaker: Great. Pete: It's really horrible because it's like, especially TikTok, the level of trolls and things that come out, these people say to people, it's like they don't think about the outcome of what's gonna happen next. They just wanna come and act like complete jackasses for no reason. But then it's like, that has to be a worry for you little bit too because what if they find out you have family and then somebody starts trolling you in your own personal life? Is that a big concern for you or so? Jessica Shaker: I've already been harassed by somebody in my own town for being an advocate for LGBTQ plus people. and so for that Pete: Wow. Jessica Shaker: reason, I'm very used to the whole idea of being doxxed on the internet. my work actually had to like protect my identity on the internet and like hide all my, you know, contact information and stuff. so I've been there. So I guess I know how to do it safely now. I'm, I'm careful about not getting my last name to people that I don't trust. and, Yeah, I'm no longer afraid of it just because I feel like I've been through it and it stinks, but I don't want to let those people win because I feel like if I just let the trolls scare me, the bullies scare me, and then I don't use my voice because I don't want them to say something negative about me, well then my story doesn't get to be told and they win and that's not fair. Pete: Yeah, I agree. My whole story is on the internet at this point, so I'm like, there's really nothing anyone else can't find about me. Hell, you could Google me, could chat GPT me, I show up on everything possible. Because whenever people ask me if they can find me, you could literally just Google my podcast and it shows up every single place possible. And there's a lot of things that I didn't tell people at first when I was talking about myself. In the beginning, I was very cautious. I didn't say a lot. But then after a while, I just woke up one day and just said, fuck it, I'm just going to go for it. And it just went for it. After that point, it just became easier to tell people exactly what was going on because when I was recording season one, I was so depressed. Like people had no idea how bad I was struggling. Like literally where you could see where I was recording in that room. I didn't leave that room most days. I just stayed there. I literally went in there, turned the light off that's above my head. I turned it off and went right back into a state of depression and no one even knew I was struggling. Jessica Shaker: Yeah. Pete: You know, most days people had no idea and they were like, oh, how are you? you sleeping at all? No, not sleeping. I was recording five days a week, maybe two to three episodes a week, two, three episodes every day, five days a week at first, and I was still kind fairing my bearings out about how I wanted to do this whole thing. And no one understood the things I was dealing with. No one even had an idea of half the things I struggled with, because I didn't tell anybody, because a lot of times I felt like they couldn't understand the conversation, because when you start telling certain people... You know, you know the people that get it versus the people that don't get it based on the lingo and the things they're saying to you, you know, but since then, it's like, I'm like, whatever, at this point, they're going to find out one way or another. I might as well just put it out there. I'm going to be the one to tell you versus someone else tell you the story, secondhand information about what was going on. But yeah, a lot of people are shocked to find out how bad I was struggling. I'm like, yeah, I didn't tell you like, well, I never even knew. I'm like, exactly, because I matched the whole time. You had no idea when I was doing the show, I was having a great time. After that, I turned it off and went right back into a state of depression. I didn't leave my house most days. I honestly didn't even get out of the house. I stayed in our dark room almost every day for the first year of the show. And it was really bad. I was struggling. Until recently, my second attempt was when I told my ex-wife this. said, hey, listen, I'm having these thoughts. And she told me, well, this is the wrong time to tell me. And I was like, that's Jessica Shaker: Gosh. Pete: awesome. Let me go reschedule. Yeah, let me reschedule this for you because it's not right for you. And then she told me, okay, Jessica Shaker: man. Pete: it gets better though. Get ready, because then she says, okay, well next time make me the 13th reason why. And she said she still stands by this statement to this Jessica Shaker: my gosh. Pete: day when I met with her recently. You know what mean? It's like, why would you tell somebody that? Jessica Shaker: Wow. Pete: And it's like, it was horrible, but at that point it was like the breaking point for me. was like, you know what, whatever. At this point I don't care. like, I told a lot of people that story and she's like, I know you've been telling people about what happened. Yeah, you boy. What you want? I'm not going to lie about it. I'm on the internet. Everybody can find me everywhere possible. I might as well just put it out there now before somebody else finds out and starts running with the story. So like, what are you going to do to me now? Because it's all out there playing side for you. I'm not hiding anything from you, you know? And being on TikTok myself, it's like, you you run into these type of people that come look for and try and poke holes in you in any way they can. Well, what holes are you going to poke, man? I'm pretty much an open door. You can see everything about me on the internet. It's all right there. It's not like I'm hiding anything from you. So, you know. And it's horrible, but. Jessica Shaker: Yeah. Pete: Mm-hmm. It's horrible though, because it's like, you know, and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, because it just gets crazier. I'm sure you get wild comments in your room a lot of times when you're in there, people just saying the most obscene things. Jessica Shaker: I have trolls come in that will like randomly ask questions and I think they don't even necessarily know that I'm a mental health room when they do that. But they'll come in and be like, like, are you on anti psychotics? And they like mean it as an insult. And like part of me knows I'm just supposed to ignore them and like not take the bait. But I frequently do take the bait. I'm like, Well, not currently, but I'm on antidepressants and anxiety meds and I did try antipsychotics at one point and there's nothing to be stigmatized about that. And then I feel like I'm kind of letting them win because they wanted me to have a reaction, but I'm also just like, stop using that as an insult. Pete: Yeah, yeah, you know, or go to, or you're crazy or go do this or go do that. And it's like, yeah, listen, what else you got for me? Just keep letting them go, you know, and things like that too. So the real question though is are you going to tell your kids about your suicide attempt when they get old enough? Jessica Shaker: I figure I will have to because I have shared pretty publicly about it on the internet so they could come across the videos and I want to make sure I tell them first. But I also want to tell them first because I hope they never get in that situation themselves, but I know that anybody can and I want them to know that it's possible to get better, that it's not too late to ask for help, no matter how bad it gets. And so I think it's important for them to know about me. But I will say it is probably One of my biggest fears in life is how they will react to that because I'm afraid that they will feel like they're, mean, it's, I'm afraid that they're going to perceive it as their mom almost abandoned them, which is not entirely inaccurate, but I want them to see it as mom had a very severe medical condition that yes, almost took her life, but she figured out how to stay and wanted to stay. But I'm afraid that they'll like take offense to it. Pete: Yeah, no. I mean, I get that because I'm like, I don't know if that's my biggest fear anymore for myself because I have three daughters of my own. And it's like, I think they know by now a little bit about my past and things like that, too. You know, but I mean, I could see that problem, you know, like you don't want them to get the wrong impression. Like, you know, mom's trying to check out on us early or anything like that, you know. But I think it coming from you telling them exactly the story and like, hey, listen, it's OK not to be OK. You know, the whole thing everybody tells everybody, you know. and things like that too. And I think it's great that you're willing to have the open conversation with them though, because like, I think that you're going to do them better in the end. I don't think they're going to freak out as much since, you know, you're starting to talk to them now about all that stuff and having these open conversations with them because they're going to see it as, you know, mom's being honest about it. It's like, I just felt like you weren't ready for that conversation, especially at the ages they're at now. You know, maybe when they get a little older, Hey, listen, I want to tell you Jessica Shaker: Yeah, yeah, it doesn't. Pete: guys something. Jessica Shaker: It doesn't feel appropriate at their age now, although like when I was in inpatient after my attempt, they did come visit me, but they didn't know why it was just mommy had to go to the doctor and revisiting her at the hospital and they just didn't have the full context. So so they'll they'll get more as as they're older. And I guess when I was in that headspace, like when it happened. I really believed I was doing them a favor. I believed that they were going to be better off without me. I believed that, you know, my husband would get a new wife and they would get a new mom and that that new mom would be much more, you know, mentally able to support them than I was. So I thought I was just getting out of the way. Pete: Yeah, you know and that's unfortunate a lot of thoughts a lot of us have you know, know these videos recently that upset me I don't know if you've seen them yet. Have you seen those ones where it's like, you know after you take your life? There'll be x amount of text messages x amount of missed calls They start listing these things and i'm just thinking Jessica Shaker: Mm. Pete: as i'm watching this going like who the hell do you think this is serving the purpose to because right now Anybody in the state of mind is thinking very bad. It's not thinking that this is a great idea. They're thinking, okay Well, you're agreeing with me that I should just pretty much commit the act because at this point you're telling me my life doesn't matter It's gonna go on without me regardless and I'm like I I just like video posts like that just drive me insane because when you see him it's just like dude You're not doing anybody favors You're literally making more of a problem because somebody's gonna see that and they're gonna think that that's exactly what the case is that okay Well, my life doesn't matter. So well, I'll do it anyways, you know And maybe you can weigh in on this too since you've been in that situation, you know? It's like, I know when you get to a certain point, it's like you don't care what anybody's saying anyways, but if you're right on that edge, one of these videos are gonna push you over that edge because it's like you're basically confirming their worst ideas is that, okay, well, I don't matter or it doesn't matter, you know? And like you don't need me here anymore because life goes on without me according to this video. Jessica Shaker: So it wasn't a secret that I was struggling. I was already going to a partial hospitalization program for my depression. I was reporting the thoughts that I was having, going through risk assessments, you know, every day with the therapist, the psychiatrist, my doctor, my husband, my parents, some of my friends, they all knew that I was having these thoughts. So it's actually surprising to me that when it actually happened that a lot of people were shocked and I'm like, I've been telling you for months that like, this is how I'm feeling. But it's Pete: Mm-hmm. Jessica Shaker: weird to me. It's weird to me that like, you can say that it's a problem and people try to help, but they can't necessarily help in the way that you need or get it fixed fast enough. And unfortunately, it had to get to a really bad point before I really got the help that I needed. Pete: So let's go into that a little deeper here. So if you were to give somebody advice that's in that situation, the loved one that is in that situation, what would you tell those people to do to help them? Like what are some things you think they could do better to help them? Obviously listening is a big one because obviously you're telling somebody something. If they're telling you things, you should obviously take these statements serious. What else would you say that they would probably need to do? Jessica Shaker: So let them know that you are willing to hear the entirety of their feelings and that they don't have to sugar coat it or step on eggshells to try to make you happy. Because one of my things was I told my family I was having those feelings, but I didn't want to go into all of the detail because I didn't want to hurt their feelings. I didn't want to insult them in any way or make them feel like I didn't value the life that I had enough for everything that they've given me. And so I think I was reserved in what I said because I was afraid to hurt their feelings. And so I think like really being very clear, I am here to be a truly open listener. I'm not gonna leave you just because you say that you're having a certain thought. I really wanna hear you completely. I think that that would be really helpful. And then letting them know like every single day, you are not a burden because what ultimately led to my attempt was... when my husband was telling me that I needed to get better faster than I was, he regrets saying that now, but at the time, he thought that I wasn't trying hard enough to get better. And then my family was really busy taking care of my grandma who was dying of cancer at the same time. So they were spread thin. And my dad said a word that he totally wouldn't have meant the way that I took it. But when I mentioned how much they were helping me, he said, well, yeah, it is unsustainable. And I know he wouldn't have meant to say that if he knew how it was gonna impact me, but in my mind, I was like, okay, they can't keep supporting me. I'm not getting better. I've been trying everything the doctors have told me to do to get better. None of it's working. So I just feel like a failure because I can't be what they need. And so I felt like, me get out of the equation so that they can just take care of all the other stuff. Pete: Yeah, no, agree. I agree, know, and I don't think a lot of people realize that, you know, that's what it's, you know, and it's a hard conversation to have for people. And the timing is unfortunate, you know, the whole thing. Same thing with like my thing was like, she told me, you know what, this ain't the right time. Well, I'm glad, you know, we can pick and choose when these thought processes come to us, you know. And I mean, that's the hardest part, though, I think it's like when people don't, people want to listen, but then they don't actively listen. I think is the other thing, too. You know, they just don't listen like they're they're hearing them say things and then they panic, you know, and then they panic then they start to god, what do I do next? You know, like that's why we always tell people nine eight eight's the best thing to go to like call them be on the phone with somebody if you have to keep on the phone with you Don't ever leave them whatever you do for love of god, please don't leave these people if you know They're having these thoughts call the night and bear on the other side merge the call together and hand them off to somebody else or the love of god Please do not leave these people alone because you don't know what's gonna happen next, you know And you don't want that on you, you know, because then you'll be sitting there going, well, I could have done more. I could have done this. But a lot of times you couldn't. You don't know what their thought process is. You know, you don't know if they're serious or not. But take it as it's a serious moment. Listen to what they're saying. Just don't panic and start freaking out and start adding any more emotions to it than it already is because you don't know what their current state of mind is or what level they're at at that point. Because when they get to that certain point, you know, we me and a psychotherapist were talking about this. Actually, he was saying like, once you get to a certain point, he's like. You're done listening. Once you hit that point where you're right at that edge to go, it's like you're not hearing anything else. Anybody else is saying to him. So you freaking out isn't going to do any good making the situation any worse, you know, in ramping it up and like in your situation, it was just people just they said things, but they didn't realize what the outcome and the impact or what it was that was going to have in your mental state when you were doing it. You know, and it's it's you know, it's hard, though, too, because I don't think that we train enough people on what to do in these crisis situations. So I know I think that a lot of people need to understand those a lot in these situations. Don't blame yourself because you can't control what somebody else is thinking, you know? And you and I both can speak on that behalf that we think you can't control what we were thinking. What you could do is, you know, try and at least be there. Like sometimes just being in the same room as somebody helps too, you know, just being in the same room. It's just like with grief, know, grief is the same thing. It's a hard subject. Like you don't know what to say in these situations. Sometimes just being present, letting those people know that you're there. and you see them, it helps a lot of times too. And that's why when I close a show, I always say, one kind act could save somebody's life or even save their day because you don't know what the last interaction somebody had, the last positive interaction could be the thing that keeps them going from taking that last step over the edge. Because a lot of people, because I work in a customer service setting, so I see people all the time. And that's always your last thought. It's like the last person you see could be the last thing that causes them to do it. Like if you're mean to them, you're to them. Jessica Shaker: . . Pete: Or you just acknowledge them, you know, and say something, hi, how you doing? You know, because then that's why I start the whole thing of like, how's your mental health with people? Jessica Shaker: Yeah. Pete: Because, know, a lot of people, like if you think about it, if I ask you, hey, how you're doing, you can lie to me. Hey, was like, hey, Jessica, how you doing? You say, I'm OK. That right there, you're not going to say anything else because you're like, OK, you just ask how I'm doing. I answered your question. But now when you ask somebody, hey, listen, how's your mental health? A lot of times the conversation will change a little bit because then I'm like, wait a minute, why did you ask me that? And then you could lead into, well, I know I noticed you haven't been yourself lately and not as upbeat as you usually are. And things like that, you start noticing different things about people and it's okay if you start noticing things. And another thing too, Lisa and I talked about, she said that, she said you can just ask people straight out, like, hey, listen, are you thinking about committing suicide? And it's not the wrong question to ask these people. know that people are gonna be like, wait, hold on. No, it's the right question to ask because sometimes they'll actually think about it for a minute and go, wait, am I actually thinking about this at this moment? You know, and sometimes that'll be that thing that makes them step back and go, hey, wait, hold up, hold up, you know, and all that kind of stuff like that too. you know, and it's, it's hard, you know, but at the same Jessica Shaker: And that's it. Pete: time, no, go ahead. Jessica Shaker: It's a misconception that parents of students have too, because if we do hear a student make a comment like, want to kill myself, then we have them go do a risk assessment with the counselor. And I've had parents of students get upset saying like, how dare you put this idea into the kid's head, asking them what plans they have. But it's like, that doesn't actually make it happen. But people get afraid, they get nervous. And so they feel like they don't want to talk about Pete: Yeah, but you're asking all the right questions. So do you have a plan? That's how you could tell the level of seriousness. Have you ever thought about this? know, when people make that joke like that too, that's an indicator too that something may be wrong as well. That's a cry for help for a lot of people. And people don't think about that. Like people making constant jokes about, you know, just shoot me now and all these other things. Any kind of references to any kind of like, you know, suicide kind of comments. Like people don't take it serious, but it's a way of someone crying out for help that you're not realizing. They're trying to tell you they need help. So like if you hear somebody say something like that, it's okay to ask them about these questions. Like, hey, listen, is there something wrong? Are you good? You know, and if they constantly say something, they're okay, then, you know, sometimes, you know, you can't keep pushing either. But at the same time, you keep an eye on what they're doing. Are they doing anything weird? Like, you know, giving away a lot of possessions. The other thing a lot of people say, you know, any kind of like weird, they seem a little off-stanish. They're not as social as they used to be. You know, even calling and texting, checking in on people too all the time. Like I got a friend of mine. That's what we do every day. We text each other good morning every morning. And if he doesn't, I get mad and he gets mad. You know, we go back and forth. bro, what's up? I had to hear from you. Are you okay? You know, and it's okay to do that, to check in on people just to how they're doing. Because sometimes even that text message is the thing that they need. They keep them from going over that edge, you know? Jessica Shaker: Yeah, and sometimes I've had friends who have said like they're gonna text without an expectation that I'm gonna have a big conversation back because they know like if you're feeling really depressed and lacking energy even to like engage in a conversation sometimes a whole long back and forth could feel like too much but at least just like the check-in and just a quick response to let people know that you're okay. I do think What really made my mental health crisis worse was that when my anxiety and depression was really bad, I ended up taking a medical leave from work and went on disability. And while I think I had to do that because I wasn't in a mental head space where I could be providing teaching to young kids, it wasn't good for me because it isolated me. It kept me at home, not with my usual people that I talked to and really just stewing in my own thoughts. Pete: Yeah, yeah, you know, that's hard when you make that decision because you think you're doing the right thing and then you're left with your own thoughts and it's yeah, it's a scary place. Our minds sometimes can be a really, really scary place, you know, so. But yeah, thank you for sharing all that though. I mean, it's hard enough to talk about these things with people, you know, and you're being that open about your situation and things like that. I really respect the fact that you do that though, even though you're a teacher at the same time. you're willing to let people know like, listen, hey, I'm a person. I may be someone's teacher, but at the same time, I am an individual, you know? And I love that the fact that you're in the space with us because we need more people like that are just really honest about what's going on. So thank you so much. Jessica Shaker: Fair. Pete: She's like, sure. All right, Jessica, well, we're at the fun part of the interview. I don't know if you've ever watched any episodes, but we're going to ask you two questions. I ask all my guests the same two questions. So the first one is a very fun one. So Jessica, my question to you is that if your mental health had a song, what would you say that song would be? Jessica Shaker: well, I am. Pete: It's a good one, I'm telling you. Jessica Shaker: I love Citizen Soldier. He does so much good mental health stuff. So, man, I don't know if it's called enough or what the exact name of the song is, but the one about being enough that's from Citizen Soldier, because it's something that I had to learn about myself and try to believe about for myself because as somebody who grew up being a perfectionist, I have perpetually felt like I am not enough. Pete: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. And I see your sign back there says you are enough too. I really like that as well. I think that's very, that's very positive because sometimes people need that just simple message to see that, you know, I love your energy. Every time I come in the room, you're always very upbeat and excited to be there and very engaging with people. So that's really great as well. So here comes the next question. The most important one of all is if you could break the stigma about mental health, what would you say that would be? Jessica Shaker: What would I say the stigma is? Pete: Yeah, what would you say the one stigma about mental health is you want to break? Jessica Shaker: that people think that people are weak if they're struggling with their anxiety and depression and if they were just stronger, powered through it, then everything would be fine. Pete: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's true, you know, I wish people stop giving out terrible advice such as, hey, if you're depressed, cheer up or your anxiety is really high. Oh, just relax. I'm glad these are all great advice you like to give me. But listen, anytime you want to trade places, we can because, know, it's never fun. It's never fun at all. really isn't. But Jessica, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with me. I appreciate you being here today. Before we sign off, do you want to let everybody know where they can find you? Why don't you plug your TikTok form and tell them where they can find you. Jessica Shaker: Sure, yeah. My name is Jessica Glowup and my handle is bold, brave, and perfect human. Pete: There you go. Are you on anything else? You're on Instagram as well too, aren't you? Jessica Shaker: I'm on Instagram and YouTube as well, but I barely started on those platforms, so I'm working on building. I want to diversify. Pete: Right, there's nothing wrong with that at all. That's awesome though. Guys go ahead and go check her out. Like I said, she's live on TikTok a lot of times. Let her know that you saw her here on Pete First Anxiety. She'd love to know that the worst people are seeing her and everything like that. So once again, Jessica, thank you so much for coming to hang out with me. I appreciate it. I enjoyed having the time of having you here. I really appreciate you being here with me today. Do you have anything else you want to say to everybody before I start signing off? Jessica Shaker: I just want to say thank you for taking the time to listen because it's really refreshing to be able to talk about it. So many people are so uncomfortable talking about it that there's very few people really willing to have the conversation. So I find it very healing when people are willing actually to witness what I've been through. So I appreciate you holding that space. Pete: Hey, not a problem at all guys. And with that being said, we're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete First Anxiety. You know where to find me, I'm Pete First Anxiety. I'm on Spotify all the way down to Pandora Radio. I'm on X all the down to TikTok. And as I always say, it costs nothing absolutely to be kind to somebody. One kind act you can do can save someone's life or hell, you can't make their day. I'm Pete First Anxiety signing off saying, don't ask how your day is today, say hey, how's your mental health?