Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / Debut Episode! Gritty Tigs Magical Season Ends

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Debut Episode! Gritty Tigs Magical Season Ends · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:17
  Speaker 1: And welcome into the inaugural episode of Tiger Territory. We'll
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: get more to that in a second. I am Karen
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Steckley with me, as always is a man who is
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: always on beat. He is Cody steven Hagen. Cody, how you.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Doing, Hey, You're doing great, Kieran. I'm excited. Yeah, Tiger Territory.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: It's the start of a new era, maybe for the Tigers,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: but definitely for us here in the podcast realm.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: I'm excited about it, you.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Know, during this playoff run, and we'll get to the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: series here in second. During during this playoff run, we
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: actually did get a couple questions on Twitter. It's like,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: all right, well you know they turned the corner, you
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: guys going to rename the pod by pure coincidence, that
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: is happening. So it's not our endorsement of the Tigers
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: being a finished product by any stretch of the imagination.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: But we are on a we were in a new network,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: we have a new backing. Still gonna expect the same
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: from us. Cody and I with with with some with
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: some added extras that we will reveal to you in
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: due time. But you know, so that's my level enthusiasm.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: In my voice is that we have this new venture. Unfortunately,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: it coincides with the Tigers season ending, so it's I'm
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: not enthusiastic about that by any stretch of the imagination.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: But we do have something new cooking here with the
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: podcast and moving forward. But it also should be not
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: a time for mourning for the Tigers. So we're recording
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: this shortly after the Tigers season ended with a seven
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: to three loss to the Cleveland Guardians in Game five
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: of the Alds and Cody of course was there and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: you can read his great story. He's on the Athletic
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: if you are a subscriber, which you should be. I
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: think the best way to start this out, Cody is
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: to just kind of take us there, because we love
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: vibes on this podcast, and this is the last vibes
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: check of the season, and this was a clubhouse of
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: a team that was young, excited, like they never gave up,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: you know, they never say die. The gritty tis like
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: all that stuff, and then it kind of comes a
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: little bit to a screeching halt in a way when
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: you drop a two to one lead that you know, like,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways feels too soon. I'm sure
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: for the guys in the clubhouse. So if you could,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: for the listeners here kind of take us through through
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: this experience with this young team experiencing the heartbreak of
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: postseason baseball for the first time after such elation here
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was definitely a strange one, you know.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I think after the Laine Thomas home run, a lot
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: of people probably watching that game had a little bit
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: of a strange feeling where you kind of know it's over,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: and then when it's actually over, it's kind of searching
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: for the right way to feel. I mean, I think
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of guys were bouncing, conflicting emotions, like there's
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: a level of pride in what this team accomplished. Every
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: player I'd talk to pretty much said that it's pretty
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: willing to spin it forwards the next year. And yet
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: it comes in the backdrop of a game that was
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: closer than the score suggested, a game that changed on
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: one swing two days removed from a game four loss
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: where you were seven outs away from winning on your
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: home field and going to the ALCS. The team was
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: never expected to be here. Like, so again, the house
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: money thing that Matt Vierling has been talking about for
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: a month plus is real.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: They were playing with house money in a way, it's
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: no sweat in a way. Well, maybe you had.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Your own money on the table a little bit when
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: you got up, when you got up to one in
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: the alds, And that's why I think led to this
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: strange feeling. It reminds me hearing of something you said
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: last year when your lion's lost in the Laos, Like
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: you get up and it almost feels like the morning
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: after a breakup, like you know, you're okay, you know,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: like there's a big part of you that knows it's
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: probably for the best, but there's still this little.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Feeling of likeugh, like what if you know?
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: And I think you could feel that palpably even in
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: the Tigers clubhouse. After the game, Trek Scooble, probably worth
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: the hardest of anyone, talked about the regret of his pitch,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: said it's gonna suck for a few days, isn't sure
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: if he's going to sleep tonight. But at the same time,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: he pointed to the graph of the playoff odds on
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: his shirt and is really proud of what his team accomplished.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Despite a difficult loss. He's still pitched really well, even
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: though it's not necessarily reflected in the box score. I
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: think Schooble certainly should be proud of what he did
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: both this year and in these playoffs as well.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: What about AJ? So, AJ's been through pretty much everything
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: there is to go through in this game, and he's
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: got a obviously a young team that overchieved. Like he's
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: been talking about, Uh, how what was kind of his
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: message you know, to you know, the fans via the
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: media and then whatever he shared about, Like how how
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: he you know, gave a message to the team after
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: an abrupt ending to a season like that, knowing that
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: they're young and this is their first go Yeah.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's probably a good leader for this
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: moment because he has been through it before. He knows
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: what this feeling is like. And I think that was
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: part of his message to the team. I mean, he
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: said the line before like once you play in one October,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: you want to play in all of them. And I
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: think the team probably understands that a little bit more
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: now typical AJ fashion, he was well spoken.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: He said, the.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Team's heartbroken for all the right reasons, and that kind
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: of what's hints at what I was getting at like,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: these guys believed and they had a chance, and they
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: were proud of what they accomplished and what they did
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: this season, and then when you lose, it's still it's
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: still heartbreaking. But AJ has lost to Game seven of
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: the World Series, in which he was up, his team
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: was up in the seventh of that game, Like that
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: is heightened compared even to this, you know, from ultimate
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: glory and history to it's a footnote that that you know,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: in another few years, most people really aren't going to remember.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: You know, there's going to be a time in Tiger's
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: history where probably no one really remembers the twenty twenty
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: four DS. But I'll tell you what, for the immediate future,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: definitely this winner. Everyone's going to remember both the run
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: this team made and how it ended losing a series
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: that also felt very winnable.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: And yeah, again we're not going to like rehab every
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: like little thing from the game. But I did kind
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: of want to get some insight from you regarding Carrie Carpenter,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: so he he, I said this after Game four. I
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: was like, when you talk about lower body, looked like
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: muscle injury stuff, Like I had very serious doubts he
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: was going to be able to swing at bat, and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: then you you know, it's kind of a little suspenseful
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: on Saturday morning, and then you know it's like, oh,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: he's walking to the batting cage. You know, there's like
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: waiting till the last second to determin what they're gonna
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: make a roster move. Then he comes up. You know,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I would almost say earlier than I mean, everything was
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: kind of moved up when when Matthew Boyd gets pulled
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: right so the fact, so he comes in in the
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: in in the fifth inning, I believe, and it smacks
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: the ball to the wall. Maybe in another on another day,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: that's a home run. Maybe maybe if he's just one
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: hundred percent healthy, that's a home run. All this like
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: what if it doesn't really matter, but he put a
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: really good swing to it. He gets up in another
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: spot later in the game and strikes out with the
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: bases loaded.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: By the way, class did not care that Carry Carpenter
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: was hurt. I don't know if you caught this live, Cody,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: but he stared the hell down Carry Carpenter, which I'm
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: all four, I'm all four players expressing themselves. So I
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: didn't mind that at all, but I was like, he remembers,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: he remembers the home run. But but you know, this
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: is gonna get lost a little bit. But I don't
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: want to use like hercu Lan or any like legend
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Derk Kirk Gibson type stuff or whatever. But at the
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: same time, we do have to recognize that what carry
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Carpenter was, you know, the fact that he was out
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: there period and he did he did physically put the
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Tigers in the lead in this deciding game. I think
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: that's worth mentioning. But like your perspective on like how
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: hurt was he really? Like what was he saying? You know,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: what were they saying about him? And then were you
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: kind of surprised when he put put bat to ball
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: there in the fifth Eddie with such veracity?
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think the whole thing came down to,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: like how did it impact his swing? You know when
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: he came off the field in Game four and I
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: saw him after the game limping, I was like, Yeah,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: that's the guy who's not going to be running for
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: a while.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: But can he hit?
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: And if he can hit, how much does it zap
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: his power? That was the big question. There's that Friday
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Night Lights the movie scene where they're talking about Booby Miles,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: it's like he ain't gonna play. I always thought, like
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Roy Williams said that, by the way Roy Williams correct,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: he's gonna play or he's gonna be active, is what
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I would have said.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if he's gonna play.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: I almost thought he may have had a ton of
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: value strictly as a Decoyd ended up being a valiant effort,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: kind of fitting of this Tiger's team, just that he
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: came in, he gets the big hit, I mean a
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: one round lead. I think a lot of people were
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: booking tickets to New York like it was such a
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: great moment that it felt like it was over, not
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: so in postseason baseball. And then of course he comes up,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: had a chance to put the team back ahead with
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: a grand slam. The next ending, bases loaded, he strikes out.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: You know, I think he was in some pain. I mean,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: we saw he couldn't he couldn't stretch that first hit
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: into a double. I don't think he would have been
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: playing in the field anytime soon. He was grimacing after
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: some of his swings, but there was enough in there
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: that he was still pretty valuable against right handed pitching.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: So yeah, a testament to carry Carpenter for sure. And yeah,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I think even even if he couldn't have hit, I
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: think A j and the Tigers should have just pretended
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: he could, just to give Stephen Vote something to think
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: about through the course of.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: That game, announce him the starting lineup, and then take
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: them out like pinch hit him before you. That's so.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: And again, there's a ton of storylines that we'll talk
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: about here in the next weeks and months ahead. But
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I did kind of want to frame this season, this
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: playoff run. As disappointing as it is, it's still like like,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: like everybody knows miraculous to get get this far, to
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: make the playoffs, I should say, and then to go
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: to Houston and take the first two. It's a three
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: game series, and you know, that could be that could
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: be the beginning of the end of Houston. We don't know,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: but like that could they could be like the final
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: nail on the coffin for the Astros run as we
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: understand it. We'll see. But that was obviously a great moment.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I'm very thankful I was able to be there. I'd
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: never seen a postseason baseball game in person before got
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: to see two, got to see a clincher. A lot
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: of fun for me. So that's memory I'll always have.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: And then go to five games against a good Guardians
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: team that you know, it's not like the Yankees are
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: beating the doors off anybody there they have, they have
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: a good shot to beat the Yankees, I think. So
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: we'll see what happens in the CS. But as dis
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: point as it is, and you try to counter that
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: with how great it was to get this far, I
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: kind of wanted to pose it like this was this again,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: you're up to one in the DS. Was this a
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: missed opportunity or a missed chance? So the way I
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: think about it is a missed opportunity in my opinion,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: is this is what you're supposed to do and you
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: fell short. Uh, And there's very you know, it's very
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: precious time when you have players and the right circumstance
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: to be able to get this far. And you were like,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: like the Astros had a missed opportunity for the last run.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Is how I would say. If the Yankees don't make
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: the World Series, that's going to be a missed opportunity
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: for teams like Kansas City and Detroit to get this
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: far and to you know, obviously one game more for
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the Tigers. But it's a miss chance. You had the
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: ability to do it, but but you came up short
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: to expand that. I think the Orioles was a missed opportunity.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: They were certainly capable of, I don't know, winning a
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: game in the playoffs. So that's kind of how I
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: look at I look at this as a missed chance,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: like they certainly could have gotten to the CS, but
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: had they played the Yankees, you were more anticipating, like,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: all right, well this is probably where it strikes midnight
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: on Cinderella. But this was still fun. But you probably
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: would have been as emotionally up for this five game
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: DS because of getting so far. So it feels a
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: little bit worse. But I think it's a mischance. It's
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: like a miss opportunity. I think is too strong.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: But I but.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You know, both of them hold that carot of it's
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: hard to get to the postseason. It's hard to consistently
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: get to the postseason. Players get hurt, players get older.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Every postseason run I think should be looked at as
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: a miss chance. And then if your team is expected
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: to do more missed opportunity. So that's kind of how
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I look at it. Where does it kind of aligned
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: with you?
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely more under the chance like the Tigers had
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: a chance to be one of these historical anomalies like
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: three Marlins type just kind of out of nowhere, ridiculous run,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Like that's a chance they missed.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: But were they ever supposed to be here?
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: No, were they, based on strength of roster, one of
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: the best four teams in baseball, Like not even close
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: even if you narrow it to you know, the second
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: half on where they one of the best four teams
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: in baseball by record? They were, but they were, you know,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: plenty of doubts. Obviously, given the nature of this team
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: and the way it's constructed and the way they won,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: they deserve credit for all that winning. It was proven
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: real over a long stretch of time. But in an
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: ideal world, this is going to be the worst Tigers
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: team on paper for the next several years, you know,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: compared to what's to come. But there was a little
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: bit of a window, right you had a winnable series
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: against the Guardians. The Yankees are going to be favored,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: but I think it's really a vastly overrated Yankees team.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Like I thought the Tigers had a chance to hold
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: their own in that series. The question would have been
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: can their pitching scheme work in a seven game setting?
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: That would have probably created some concerns, but I'm not
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: sure they would have been completely overmatched against the Yankees.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: So in a way, yeah, it's missing a chance to
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: do something really special you had. At the same time,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: you had a pretty special season given what you did
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: and the odds the Tigers overcame obviously to get to
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: that point.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: So I would say to the listeners that how you
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: feel about that opportunity versus chance thing, Think about your
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: emotions during all those innings with runners in scoring position.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: So if you were like angry, then you look at it,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I think as a missed opportunity because you're thinking that
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: this should like you should be doing X. Where it's
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: if you're just like, man, that's tough, you know, like
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you know it just didn't work out, then it's a mischance.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So that so, like I think, like how the mindset
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: works there will kind of play out what you what
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: you think, because uh, there were a lot of positives
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: to take from this playoff run and and I don't
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: want I don't wanna not mention Parker Meadows again. I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: did it, uh after game four. But to tie Charlie
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Garringer with anything warrants a mention on a podcast, I
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: feel like I feel like that. I feel like that
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: kind of like there was a there's a moment where
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Va on the broadcast was like, the future is very
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: bright for that Parker Meadows, you know, after after like
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I think he stole third or something like that, and
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I was just like, take me back to early May
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: and in the playoffs the national broadcast is to say
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the future is very bright for Parker Meadows. But because
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: really what it comes down to, like I never thought
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the Tigers were outclassed. Now had they had they like
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: won two games, but they won them like two to
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: one or the three zero types, and then had every
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: game that they lost in the game one variety, then
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: you could you could probably say, even though it was
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: a five game series, you were kind of outclassed. Outside
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: of Game one, every game was in the balance, right,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and this score will look worse than what it was
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: in the moment. Uh, And obviously they weren't outclassed by
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: you know, the Astros because they know they beat them,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: so they weren't outclass. They were never exposed. Well, actually
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: maybe that's a good talking point. Were they exposed? Was
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: the pitching exposed? In your opinion?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I think the I think the offense was exposed. The
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: pitching I think maybe be leaking some oil in terms
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: of some guys who had carried some heavy loads, brisky,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: maybe even schooble.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was really exposed as much as
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: maybe some fatigue began to set in.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: But I think the offense was exposed.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, you go two of twenty three in games
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: four and five with runners in scoring position. I guess
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: it's a testament that you were competitive and generated enough
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: base runners to be two for twenty three. But that
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: was my huge concern, Like, is this where this team's
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: still pretty strikeout prone? His team is twenty fourth in ops.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: Like I had an exchange.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I was talking about the twenty one team and how
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: much aj Hinch bunted that year. Do you remember that
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: aj Hinch, this analytical heavy manager, was bunning like way
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: above league average. I was like, yeah, we'll look at
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: that lineup. The twenty twenty one Tigers scored more runs
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: in the regular season than the twenty twenty four Tigers did.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Like this offense, although it made some strides and it
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: played kind of a scrappy brand of ball. I think
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: that showed up brightly where they couldn't get a big hit.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: They didn't have guys who could really change the scoreboard
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: when you needed it.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I mean double s.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Granted Torque had to drive and Cole Keith had to drive,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: and Kerry Carpenter gave on a ride, but uh, you know,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: they needed a couple of balls to leave the yard
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: with runners on base. And I think the second half
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: of that order, especially, you know, it starts to thin
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: out quickly, and I think against a staff with a
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: really good bullpen, that that got exposed, especially in four
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: and five.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to grapple with how much I like
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: the word exposed because nothing what you said was incorrect,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: But I guess because in my mind a lot of
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: this was within the the expected outcomes, Like if it
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't reach exposed level for me, if that
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: makes sense, because you know, you look at two for
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: twenty three, like is that a statistical anomaly?
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Like like you know what I mean so probably. Yeah,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: But but I said this before the series. You have
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: to put the ball in play.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's how to struck out sixteen times in Game
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: five they whipped thirty nine swings.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: That is still a.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Little bit of a flaw for this offense. Now two
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: for twenty three overall, that's that's a little bit statistical
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: or not, Like for.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Sure, what did Matthew Boyd have like his first four
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: or five outs for strikeouts?
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, five, I believe. I mean, you put pressure on
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Matthew Boyd.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: If it weren't the playoffs, it had that Matthew Boyd
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: outing type scripts.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I was actually I was actually thinking. I was like, man,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: you might have gotten boyed out too early, Like you
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: did too much too soon without getting the runners across,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: uh to get kind of the desired outcome there. Uh
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean the off Yeah, because that's the thing,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna be consistent here. When the Tigers were
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: on this amazing run to get to the postseason, one
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: of the things that I said was it felt safe
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: to buy in or like look at positively because it
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: it was within the realm of possibility. It wasn't no
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: one was going on some historic run in September, right,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: it all the games kind of felt like, yep, that's
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: the character that's within the characteristic of the player, that's
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: within the player profile, and in the playoffs were the
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: same way. And I'm gonna be consistent in the sense that,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: like just this two for twenty three is not gonna
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: make me say they were exposed, because again, I felt
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: like that was within the realm of expected outcomes, even
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: if that is a little bit of, like I said,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: a statistical outlier, and we'll have plenty of time to
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: talk about adding bats and this that the other thing.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: But I thought that what you said about the back
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: end of the lineup was very true. It felt like
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: there's like two problems with the two for twenty three thing.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, it felt like a lot of those,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: like I'm saying, feel I'm saying, I don't have it
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: jotted down each time. It felt like a lot of
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: those were with the you know, the Rogers and the
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Sweeney's of the world coming to the plate. And then
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: it also felt like, all right, you got two quick outs,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: either Torque or Parker or you know, somebody gets a
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: double and then the next guy up it's the back
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: end of the order. He strikes out or grounds out
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and that's another at bat with a runner
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: at scoring position. And I understand that, but did anyone
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: really feel like that was an offensive output? Ending you
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. So like, those are those are
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the kind of things that kind of like that come
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to mind when when I see like the two for
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: twenty three, Whereas I just don't think I kind of
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: almost chocked that up to like the randomness of baseball,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: because again it's like when these guys are coming up
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: in the lineup, Uh, you know made it turn made
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: a big factor there and uh and so like it's
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: hard for me to get outraged about it. But also
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: you just can't have that, Like I said after Game four,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: there was still a lot of can't have in this game,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Well, and then that goes back to like on paper
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: or the Tigers one of the best four teams in baseball,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Like no, like no one knows who anybody, but yeah,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: this roster is like nationally, that's not too like talk
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: bad about this team that obviously did incredible things and
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: to spend for it a little bit.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: We're gonna spend all off.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Season talking about, like, you know, how much offense do
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: they need to add? But that is a big question.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure we'll hear from Scott Harrison AJ Hinch
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: here in the coming days for kind of an end
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: of season wrap up, and I'll be highly curious to
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: see kind of the tone of how Scott talks about things.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: They're not gonna go out and.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Sign Juan Soto because they made the postseason.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: But from conversations I had the past week, like I
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: do think there's a little bit of an eye opening
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: to like, Okay, imagine if we had like one more
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: legit dude in this order, or like one really good
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: guy and another guy who's like more veteran and maybe
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: has a more pop than what we currently have. Like
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: suddenly you can see a world where maybe this team
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: could enter you know, I don't want to say how good,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: but but like you could feel much better about this
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: team on paper next year with not a whole lot
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: of addition, but just one or two of the right editions,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and probably at least one of those needs to require
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: handing out a little bit of change. But like that's
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: like does that reality set into does that feel more palpable,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: especially after the way you lost this series. I don't
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: think one series is going to influence Scott Harris's decision making,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: but it does kind of clarify a little.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Bit, I think.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: And again, like I'm just I'm still going back to
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the things that I was saying during the run to
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: the playoffs was that nothing was happening that was full
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: in anybody. There's nobody is giving given a free pass
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: into the lineup next season because you were a starter
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: on a team that was seven outs away from going
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: to the ALCS, Like, there's no no, there's there's no
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: fool's gold to be had in this batting order. I
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: feel like I feel like everything that we kind of
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: thought about except maybe one the one exception maybe to
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: that would be Jay hen who probably had his best
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: at bats in the postseason all year.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: It really did enough that it gives you something to
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: think about a guy. It's like really hard to see
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: a roster spot for him, but it's like still kind
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: of like that bat, you know. Yeah, But that does
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: lead to the other question, like, ye are you gonna
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: just run this back? And I think the answer has
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: to be a pretty resounding note. I think you can
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: feel really good about what you did this season, and
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: he is a perfect foundation to get a little more aggressive.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: And I'm not.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Talking spending to quote John Middleton's stupid money, but I'm
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: talking about just adding something that's a step above the
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Mark Cannis of the world. And you can still do
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: some of this mix and match, some of the not
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: small ball but almost like money polish type things. I
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: think that's gonna be in this organization's DNA for years
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: to come. But we've seen the volatility of baseball both
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: work for like a two month stretch and then kind
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: of hit you in the mouth real quick in Games
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: four and five. I do think that's a sign that
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: although you had a magical season, the overall talent level
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: is going to have to increase, and some of that's
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: gonna have to be external.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: See part of it that that fans and media are
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: gonna have to look at it as is that the
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: one thing that this run did was it validated the
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: hell out of everything Scott Harris has said and done. True.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: So like now that being said, like I'm gonna reinconsistent
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: in the fact, you know, to piggyback what you said
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: is that like you have to be. Then this is
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: when I thought they were going to miss the playoffs.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: But I said, you have to be. You have to
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: do a tier above what you've done basically the past
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: two off seasons. And I think that's more abundantly clear
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: that that has to be the case. But Scott Harris
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: took over a team that was I don't want to
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: say a mess, but it was a team that you done.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: You think me at best, you could say there was
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: no sense of direction other than you had some young
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: players that were talented and of course aj Hinch and
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: in year two, like I sometimes I drive the work
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I gotta tuk him. Like Scott Harris
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: got this name of the playoffs at year two. Year two,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: we got this name to the playoffs second and into
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the second round.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: You know something?
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's Scott Harris officially a friend
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: of the podcast. Now I think it's still like I think,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I think he had an imprint philosophically on a lot
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: of stuff that happened. In terms of actual personnel moves.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: How much of this was his doing? Uh?
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: You can, I mean even point some things, Tyler Polton.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: You know, absolutely he had to say, in the pitching
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: strategy these guys used in the second half. The tray
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Sweeney acquisition ended up, you know, being a helpful thing.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: For the team.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: But it's still not like Scott Harris's biggest test I think,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: especially because they won, is this off season we're looking
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: at right now. I'll heck, I remember that twenty twenty
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: one team once they started winning, being on the field
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: where Alavilla jokingly.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Said, like, what are we doing now?
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: We have expectations, and presiently enough expectations happened. The next
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: year's team did not meet those and now lost his
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: job because of that. Like now there are expectations, which
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: will only put more pressure on Scott Harris to make
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: make the right editions for this roster.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: So Bob Nightingale shortly after the game posted on Twitter
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: and he said, you know, Guardians, when the Alds blah
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah, this amazing run for the Tigers ends,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: but when they show up to Lakeland and Florida in February,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: they will do so as the favorites in the Al Central.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And it's not an outlandish thing to say, but it
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: still kind of smacks you in the face a little bit,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I'm.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: It's a little bold, Like I'm not saying he's wrong.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I in a way, I hope he's right.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I'd love to cover a team that's favorite to win
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: the division, Like that'd be different than anything I've ever
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: experienced in my career. I think there's a lot of
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: off season left, Like what does the sale of the
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Twins mean for their off season? The Royals, you know,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: might end up being pretty aggressive and they have some
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: pretty good pitching, like and then the Guardians just won
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: this division despite doing nothing all last offseason, Like what
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: was it? I think, you know, it's going to be
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: a pretty competitive division next year. I would kind of
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: lean toward maybe the Tigers or Royals end up being
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: the favorite. But we have to see what all these
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: teams do because they all have some weaknesses and can
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: use additions before we really know how that's going to
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: shake out.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Hey, can we can we say this is a good
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: division because because it was still a dismissed division because
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: because you know, everyone was like, well, if you take
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: away the Royals or the Tigers record against the White Sox,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: they're this, you know, which is funny that we're using
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: that argument in a more balanced schedule era. That's just
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: how bad the White Sox were, you know. Uh, But
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: to me, like, again, the Royals take the Yankees the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: four games, Uh, you could argue that should at least
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: been a five game series.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Obviously, the Guardians had their chance to continue their off
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: season or excuse me, postseason, and the Tigers you know,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: took down the Astros and gave the Guardians all they could.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: And Minnesota is still like a like they.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Were in terms of like sheer talent, Minnesota might be
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: the best team in the division. They didn't, they didn't
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: make the postseason. So like, yeah, three postseason teams plus
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: the Twins like that, that's pretty good. And I would
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: think at least three of those teams probably get better
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: this coming off season, and then the White Sox have
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: nowhere to go. But although they had a long lead,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, no, I think I think it's a
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: good division.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a lot of things rallying my brain.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: But we have so much time to talk about it
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: this offseason, and and we'll we'll spend some time kind of,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: you know recapping a little bit on a you know,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: player position basis. You know what we saw this uh
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: this postseason, then kind of spin it forward to what
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: to expect in the offseason and then you know, come
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: to spring training. So we don't wanna, we don't want
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: to use all our best pitches today, Cody.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: But any final any, any final thoughts here for this team.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: You you were from, you were there from the beginning
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: from you know, pitchers and catchers and all the way
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: to the end. Uh here in mid October, a longer
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: season with the Tigers, and I think any of your
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: readers or yourself your editors anticipated, But any final thoughts
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: on this iteration of the team as we're as we're
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: fresh off the season ending.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: You know, they only played two rounds of the playoffs,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: but it felt like a month or like a year
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: onto itself. It felt like a long time. It trained
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: a long time living in a different world than we
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: were in June early July. So that was cool and
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: it made it more rewarding. I know, it was very
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: rewarding for the fans who turned out in full force
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: to see a playoff game at Camerica Park. That's that's
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: really my main thought, like what a rewarding year. And
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: of course thanks so much to everyone who has read
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: my work at The Athletic and followed along through the
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Turning the Corner days, many of you from the start,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I hope you'll support us now on this
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: new venture at Tiger Territory.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess I'll kind of wrap up by saying,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: you know, like I I'm a historian of the game,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you know, I love reading about like the classic teams,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: and it's like, when did they know in sixty eight
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: that this team was special? Like when did they know
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: in eighty four that this team was special? And obviously
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: those are World Series teams, Like what how did I
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: feel in six that this could be a different year.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was when I went to the game for
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: my birthday in April. They were playing Texas and Chris
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Shelton launches two home runs, you know, like they're like, oh,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: there might be something here, And as an adult, I
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: had never experienced that in real time, and so it
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: was a it was a pleasure to experience, like, here's
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: a team doing something special. Obviously they felt short of
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: being able to raise any banner, whether that'd be Division
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Pennant World Series, but it was still like one of
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: those things the gritty tigs that don't let the tigers
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: get hot. Stuff Like I'll be able to kind of
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: remember being there in real time for something that was
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: just so fun to watch, you know, and to follow
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: into into in my own small way kind of be
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: a part of doing this podcast, which, as Cody says,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: now Tiger Territory. I wish we were opening this up
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: with an alcs uh uh you know coming up, but
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: you don't. You don't always get the most happy of endings.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: But this was still a very fun season, uh, watching, listening, reading,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: doing this with you, Cody, and I know it's gonna
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: be a great off season with many storylines and a
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: lot of interest, and I'm looking forward to continuing to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: do this. We have turned the corner and now we
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: are Tiger Territory. So for Cody Steavenhagen, I am Kieren Steckley. Everybody,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: have a great day.