Latest / Hart & Hustle Podcast / Why AI Is Not the Enemy: Dan Stabb on Leveraging Technology in Workforce Development
Transcript
- Efrain: We're back here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. We got Mr. Dan in the building. What's up, Dan? Dan Stabb: Nam much, how you doing, my friend? Efrain: I'm doing good, man. You've had a lot of camera time here recently. Huh damn. Dan Stabb: As of late, yeah. Efrain: Did you ever picture yourself in front of the camera doing so many cool things? You just told me you were on a show last time we spoke. so definitely had to catch it. But did you ever think that you'll be on a game show? Dan Stabb: It was a dream. It it was I mean, I genuinely like I genuinely dreamt of being a game sh on a game show since I was five years old. and it took forty one years after that. Efrain: Ha ha Dan Stabb: but dreams do come true. But yeah, I had always dreamed Efrain: Yes, I do. Dan Stabb: on being on TV. I d game shows it was what I wanted and I was really happy that I got to do it. Efrain: My wife's to this day, sh that's one of the things she's like, man, I wanna be on a game show, but she knows not to take me because I'm not the guy that knows the answers. Okay. She's so good at this, but for me, yeah, forget about it. Dan Stabb: Yeah. Efrain: what was it game show that you grew up thinking like I wanna be that game show? I have a game show, I can tell you. I don't know about Dan Stabb: Okay. Efrain: be it, but what's the game show you thought you wanted to be on? Dan Stabb: it was totally pressure luck. It was Efrain: mine's just prices right. Dan Stabb: that that was pressure luck was my I want my own, you know, half hour of fame. Prices Right was so true story, my mom told me that when I was like just a couple months old, she could not get me to stop crying until she put on Prices Right. And then I stopped crying. And then she did that like five days in a row. And every time it was Prices Right. I stopped crying, so prices totally meant to be. Efrain: It was meant for you to be on a game show, that means. Look at that. I love it, man. We could definitely continue to talk about game shows, but you're also part of a special organization. If you wanna tell us your organization and your role with them currently. Dan Stabb: You got it. So I am with Zip Code Wilmington. We are a twelve week full workforce development program that teaches students how to either become software developers or data engineers in just three months. And along that we do professional development. So we're helping our students with resume writing, interview skills, public speaking, all of those kind of soft skill training things that are really important. So my I have two hats on the Director of Admissions and Professional Development, which is a long title I gave myself over time. so I oversee the entire admissions process, because we are a competitive admissions process for students to get into our program. but then I also facilitate our professional development training. So every week I'm teaching those classes that like I talked about too. Do a lot of one on one coaching with students to really help them get ready because a lot of our students are They're not coders coming into our program. So for many it's it's a second career or it's a career shift. So it's helping them cultivate the skills to get ready for that career shift coming out at the other end of the program. Efrain: So I'm actually intrigued to know because everyone's talking about AI and the need to do you really need to code? Where do they come together? Dan Stabb: You do. And so we a couple of years ago, and I think I s I said this to you before, we we were a little bit dragged kicking and screaming into AI. We were kind of don't use AI, it's a crutch, it's and then we started to realize, no, companies are gonna be using AI and that this is just where where we're at. And so what we realize is that if we teach our students how to leverage it ethically, how to use it as a tool. And not as the just the we're not just going into Claude or Chat and just saying, code me an entire program. We're using it as a sort of a tag team partner to really help them cement help the AI cement the students understanding, but also do things like checking bugs, like helping to optimize things. But it's now embedded in our curriculum. because that's you know, we're very fortunate to have a steering committee. of partners who hire from us or who just work in the industry. And they were they told us, you know, two years ago, you got to get on this train. and so thankfully we're we're very nimble as an organization. I I'm not a coder myself, so I'm not going to take any credit for the the coding aspect of this, but our instruction team really worked incredibly hard to implement that into the curriculum. And the turnaround has been pretty phenomenal for our students. Efrain: Like you said, it just allows especially I'm not a coder either, but I've developed websites before. And can imagine the work that it takes behind the scenes to really get things right. I was actually working with my web developer. This is before she started to realize what Claude can do. And I said, Hey, I'm paying for you to use Cloud, you know, use it, learn it because it's a whole new world and as she started to utilize it, she's like, Wow, Ephraine, I can still do what I love on the coding. But it truly does help out on things that maybe I do not know. that it's a kind of a above my I would say pay grade or something that I'm I haven't done before, that it helps me in that space. So yes, it is not just the replacement is a tool that we utilize to just be better, to educate ourselves, to help things go faster, especially in the coding world. but facilitating, man. Did do you ever feel you s that you'll be a facilitator? Like those are two different worlds as well, just kind of playing the director and the facilitator. Dan Stabb: Yeah, I I mean, it's not something I envisioned growing up. I f there was a lot of things I wanted to be growing up in addition to being on a game show. but I perhaps a wrestler, yes. We'll talk about that. Efrain: A wrestler baby? We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. Dan Stabb: but it's something when I 'cause I'm I know we're gonna talk about the improv stuff as well, but the That's where my journey started with facilitation, is once I started to teach improv. Because I had never really taught before. I've worked in education my entire career, but primarily as an administrator. And so once I started to teach improv, I got this itch of okay, I actually think I like doing this stuff. And it just it evolved over time throughout my career and it even evolved throughout zip code. When I started at zip code, I was admissions manager. There was no improv, there was no professional develop, at least for me. And then when I asked my executive director at the time, I just said, you know, I'm ready. I want to be challenged a little bit more. And she said, okay, we we teach our students how to do elevator pitches. So I want you to sit in and help them work on their their elevator pitch. And then it was, we would like you to teach an improv class. And then it just became sit in on every single professional development we teach. And then within a year or two I was co facilitating it with her and then eventually it just I was very lucky that it became my baby and so it's something I'm really proud of. Efrain: I same kind of to you, didn't think I'd be a facilitator. And I ended up in the airline industry facilitating. And I would say one of my favorite jobs was facilitating. And as is I still used to get nervous because we used to have like every week was a different class. and sometimes it was like supervisors to different departments and you know, but I loved it. I love to see where they start in the beginning of the week and when they ended at the end of the week. And it just it was so rewarding. to be up there and as you mentioned, improv, right? Like when things go wrong, how do you continue to pivot? the screen went wrong, or this is not updated. And you just gotta figure it out, man. That was just the beauty of it all. And just to be authentically you, I think that's the beauty as well. What is your favorite part of being a facilitator, you think? Dan Stabb: Exactly what you just described. It's it's the it's the transformation, it's the aha moments, it's the discovery when somebody figures out something about themselves that they didn't know was true, or that they just convinced themselves they were not capable of doing. And, you know, for me, you know, us being a 12 week program, like I said, I used to work in higher ed. And I've been saying I've been at Zipcode about eight years now. And I've been saying I see more transformation in our students in 12 weeks than I would sometimes see in a four-year degree program. And that's no shade to four-year degree programs. because that put bread on the table for me for a very long time. But it because we're so accelerated, and because I get to work so much more, you know, intimately like with the student, get really getting to work one on one with them or in group settings. It's it's seeing the students do something that they didn't think they could do. or even, you know, sometimes I'll have coaching sessions with them and they'll they'll challenge me. They'll say, Okay, I was a cashier. I you're I'm I wanna be a software developer. I do not have any skills as a cashier that apply to being a software developer. And I always see this as okay, cool, challenge accepted. so I'll just start talking with them and I'll just be okay, tell me what made you What made you a good cashier? And if typically the first few times are like, it doesn't really take any. I'm like, no, no, it takes it takes a lot to be a good cashier. You know, you had to use you had to you do proper money handling. You had customer service. And eventually I stop talking and let them do the talking. And then eventually I'll let them go for 10, 15 minutes, and then I'll say, Okay, well, here are the skills that are necessary to be a software developer. And I just start listing. The skills and I said, So tell me how you don't see the parallels here. And that like is really cool. Efrain: Yeah. I would always say is I love to teach it and make it make sense. Like, Dan Stabb: Exactly. Efrain: make it make sense. I'm going to relate it. I used to they used to give me so much like a a blueprint, I would say, like this is what they wanted me to teach. So I would say, Hey, this is what I'm going to teach, which is they want want me to teach, but then we're going to make it make sense. That's how I always looked at it, because you gotta dumb it down sometimes. dummy for me, it's the same way, dummy fy it for me. Like what does that look like? where I can teach at any level and that's where I felt out it was my my that's where I won every single time. no shade to all the other facilitators, but I won because I understood how to make it make sense. It all come from improvising, right? You say you're improviser, you taught that. Why do you think that was also so important in what you've done in facilitation? Dan Stabb: I mean, I f I think a few things. It it to be a good improviser, you have to adapt be adaptable and and you might be learning how to be adaptable. And so Efrain: Mm. Dan Stabb: adaptability also means it gives you a stronger ability to read the room. And so i if this concept is connecting with these students here, but it's not at all connecting with these students here, you know, thankfully I've been able to develop the wherewithal to say, okay, how do I make it? I'll I'll say, as opposed to dumbing it down, I'll say, I how do I make this more accessible? How do I, how do I put it in a way that it something is gonna sync with them or sink in with for them? and also I think with improv too, there's I teach from a place of empathy because I was that. I was the guy that didn't think I could do it. Like when I first started doing improv, I I I'm not too proud to say I wasn't very good at it. Efrain: It was cringe, huh? Dan Stabb: I d I don't want to watch videos from 20 years ago. I d I mean, maybe someday I will. But it's it was totally cringe. And but I rem and I remember thinking, I'm not good at this. I can't do this. And thankfully I had mentors along the way that guided me and supported me and pushed me out of my comfort zone more than anything else. Like the things that I would just say, I don't want to do, they would say, Cool, do it anyway. And so when I'm Talking with these students and teaching these students, I'm realizing like I I I pretty much know exactly how they feel, or at least in some way how they feel. And so I think the skills I've learned with improv tied with the the sort of that empathetic piece, I think allows me to connect with them in in a stronger way because no two conversations are ever really the same. Like I don't see this as a one size fits all approach to how I do the work that I do. Which and there's no one size fits all approach to improv. Like there are many styles of improv that just works for naturally who you are. And, you know, you talked earlier about being authentic. I mean, I think also the best improvisers bring themselves, even in a very fictionalized on the spot situation, no matter maybe maybe you're doing a wacky character or something, but there has to be a strong element of you in it for the care for or to connect with the audience. And I so I think you're really tapping into that authenticity, especially in the way I try to teach, is is helping the students honor their experience that they have and honor the work that they've done and see it as a superpower as opposed to a detriment to the work that they're trying to do. Efrain: How many students are you guys seeing through a year? Dan Stabb: So we do we have a cohort based model. So we do three cohorts. Actually, no, we just started four cohorts this year, or doing a four cohort a year model. We were doing three. Anywhere between ten and thirty, just depending on the cohort. so yeah, seventy five, ninety students a year probably. Efrain: Wow. And just and still growing, as you mentioned, we're at that fourth. Next thing know, there's five. And the the more that Dan gets better and better at facilitating. I love it. So do you guys at the end of it all, they take this you said twelve week class, right? Twelve week class. do you guys help them get into the work place as well, find them jobs, or what does that actually look like at the end of it? Dan Stabb: So we've we always stress we don't guarantee employment, but we, you know, we're a nonprofit. So we, you know, thankfully we all have a very nonprofit mindset. So we help every student as long as it takes until they get that first job. for some students that's quick. Some students it might take a little bit longer. And no, but no matter what, we're providing the same level of service, the same level of like we'll do if a student is interviewing with ABC Bank. this week, and they tell me, I was like, cool, send me the job description for ABC Bank. You and I are gonna do a mock interview. I'm gonna do my research on ABC Bank. I don't know exactly what they're gonna ask, but I probably have a strong sense. And we're gonna practice as if this is ABC Bank. And I also want you to come prepared with the questions you're gonna ask them because then I get to answer them in my and I get to test my improv skills because I don't actually know. And I I always add that disclaimer. Nothing I say in that part of the process. means that that's what it is. This is just for the sake of getting the practice. Efrain: Yeah. Dan Stabb: but we, you know, we have a really great team who will also we have a a you know, we're in Delaware, we're a pretty tiny place, but we're it's corporate. So, you know, thankfully having a lot of connections, our team will reach out to different organizations and say, do you have any openings? And if they do, like we'll facilitate interviews or facilitate at least sending resumes to those companies. but yeah, we do a lot of work. to help them get that job. Efrain: And how how long has zip code been around? Dan Stabb: It's been around since twenty fifteen, so eleven years. Efrain: so still really in the nonprofit world babies. Yeah. There's a lot of room for growth for sure. Dan Stabb: We're babies. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Efrain: how how big is the team? Dan Stabb: we are currently team of seven. So we're we're small and mighty, but yeah. Efrain: Yeah, yeah. That's why you're playing multiple hats. That's why you're playing director and you're also playing facilitator. That's what it looks like in the nonprofit. For those that know nothing about the nonprofit, is that you're wearing two hats, Dan. There's people that are wearing five, six hats. And you're Dan Stabb: yeah. Efrain: probably wearing some of the hats you haven't explained to us yet, but that's what it looks like in the nonprofit. It is truly Dan Stabb: yeah. Efrain: always that small and mighty. I was just mentioned to someone for the event that we did on Friday, we were able to raise almost thirty thousand dollars, but with three people. kind of really running it behind the scenes in less than 60 days. If we would have had just, you know, two more people, what that would have looked like. but there's also the thanks to the volunteers. You guys work with a lot of volunteers as well. That does kind of help out. I think they're underrated. So volunteers, how can someone get involved at that level? Dan Stabb: So for for us, a lot of our volunteers are our alumni. so on that on that note, I'll say apply to zip code, do the twelve week program, get a great job and come back and volunteer. but on like Efrain: Yeah. Dan Stabb: part of the professional development side for things and we or for me, that has really helped in particular in the past year. So I also coordinate the mock interviews. So we do practice mock interviews from weeks seven through eleven. And normal it's either alumni, community members, corporate partners who just volunteer their time. And it could be a behavioral interview, the tick the typical, you know, tell me about a time when type interview. And since they're coders, we have volunteers coming in for tech interviews as well. So how to do a whiteboard interview, how to do, you know, a a coding assessment, those types of things. So when, you know, are volunteers are volunteers and they're very, very busy. And so when we s I would need to realize we needed to do more. I just did a big outreach like on LinkedIn. I just said, hey, we would love to have volunteers. And I was overwhelmed by the number of responses from people that I maybe have had one touch point with in my career. I had, you know, somebody who knew somebody who referred them to me, or I had people I had somebody that last time I performed, it was it was an improviser. And I think it's been close to twenty years since we performed together. and he said, I would love to do mock interviews, and he did it from in Colorado and I'm in Delaware. So all those little things just go such a long way. And especially, you know, for our students, it gives them because we don't really we give very basic guidelines on how to do these interviews, but we really want each interviewer to have their own style because that's real world. Every interviewer has their own style, companies have their own style. And so by giving students that diverse practice with a bunch of different types, really helps them become adaptable when the real things happen, hopefully coming out of the program. Efrain: Goes to show communication at that level of social is key. Like I would just also explain to the board when we started doing social media, that's what really drove the funds. That's what drove people to show up, is that we have to tap into different sorts of communication. I think for a long time it was that one directional email. Marketing has completely, you know, hurt that because now we don't even look at our emails because everything just seems like spam. But it's how do we meet people where they're at? And it is just going to the socials. It is sometime just a quick text message. other than AI, do you guys see yourself using other technologies that really help drive that that world of coding? Dan Stabb: f for the admission side of things, we we've de I we have a lot of I have a she has a longer title than me and I'm not gonna try to butcher it, but she sh she's my right hand person in Efrain: Ha ha ha. Dan Stabb: admissions and she's done a tremendous job of developing processes and automations and workflows using like Active Campaign and Zapier and a whole bunch of different tools. our some of our the tools we use to teach the students are actually developed in-house. By our instructors, which is pretty cool. our director of education, and he he's gonna hate when he sees that I said this, but when I say he worked with Steve Jobs, he literally worked alongside Steve Jobs. he was one of the original developers for Netscape, for those who remember Netscape. So you know, he has decades of experience, and so he's been able to, you know, take things, develop something that might cost. twenty, thirty, forty thousand dollars if you were to outsource it and develop it in in house for a fraction of a fraction of that cost. So it's a cool thing, yeah. Efrain: the beauty of it. Is is are you are you guys just local to Wilmington or are you guys doing stuff outside of the backyard as well? Dan Stabb: Mostly Wilmington. Now, I mean, Wilming we are ten minutes from Pennsylvania. so we we do have a lot of students who come in from like Philadelphia, Delaware County, which is the county right next to Delaware, which is weird that Delaware County's in Pennsylvania. and then, you know, some students from Jersey as well. But you do have to be within a commutable distance, we say to attend zip code. if students are within a I think we say forty five to one hundred and twenty mile radius, we do per we do permit them to attend remotely. if you're within 45, we ask that you are in person. And the main reason is because we want that cohort experience. because that that really is one of the hallmarks of zip code is being able to work together because the despite the misnomer about coders that they're, you know, off in a corner working isolated in a dark cubicle, like that's that's not how it is at all. You're working on teams and you're working on teams of teams. And so that's part of our model is giving them the experience of just even within their cohort working on different teams all the time. and so that's why we've kept things pretty pretty local to to Wilmington. Efrain: Before you were in this world, man, we gotta talk a little bit about professional wrestling because we both have that in common. So you you thought about being a wrestler at one point in your life then? Dan Stabb: Yeah. And the thing is I'm very short and not athletic. So Efrain: Yeah. Dan Stabb: so I kinda knew that actually wrestling for me probably as much of a dream as it was, it probably wasn't it wasn't in the cards, but I've always performed. And so it was in my early twenties. So there's a promotion in Delaware called the East Coast Wrestling Association, ECWA. And I used to go to the shows as a kid and I started to go to the shows again when I was you know, early adult. And I just had this twinge of like, what if I just asked to be a manager? I didn't know what the process was. I didn't I didn't know anything. So I sent the promoter an email and I just said, Hey, I've been performing for X number of years, would love to be a manager. And and which I knew was going to be a bad guy. Good guy managers really don't exist. It was a bad guy manager. And he said, Do you have any tapes of your work? Now again, I've never done wrestling. So And I to this day I don't know how this worked. I sent him a video of me in high s in a high school performance of Little Shop of Horrors playing the dent the role of the dentist, which if you're not familiar is like the one of the main and ta antagonists of the show. And somehow that worked. and I think three or four and I never had formal training. we we sat at a TGI Fridays to develop the character together. And next thing I knew, he's like, it was, I think, July of twenty twenty one, twenty twenty or not twenty twenty one, two thousand one, two thousand two. it's like, all right, I'm gonna put you out with this guy named Mr. Ulala, you're gonna cut a promo and off to the races. And I had no clue what I was doing. but over time it's just something that you just learn and practice and you you make your mistakes and i eventually it's something that I thankfully be feel I got to be pretty good at. I And it got good at being a bad guy. so which is a lot of fun. Efrain: Did you share that story with the Miz when you were on your sh your show as well with the Miz? Dan Stabb: Briefly. Very, very briefly. So I did not I did not know I was gonna be paired with a Miz until the day of the show. so I think we found out like maybe three hours before. Efrain: Wow. Dan Stabb: And so and you get to meet them very, very briefly before you actually go out and do the taping. so I think between takes or not between takes, between rounds when we were switching partners. I told him I was a big fan of his, which is genuine. I've all I'm a huge fan of the Miz. And I think very briefly said, because he's like, he gave me this, like, and you actually see it on the show. Him finding out that I was a wrestler or I was a wrestling manager. I'm pretty confident he found that out when at that moment that they said it on TV. So he kind of gives me this look like, you are? Or you are? And so yeah, I had a chance to very briefly say, Yeah, I was a manager for E C WA It's like, Okay, yeah, cool, that that makes sense. Efrain: Do you think I'm always a big believer that you go through life and there's so many chapters that really prepare you for where you're at today. Do you feel all those things prepare you for who Dan is today? Dan Stabb: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think every experience you have, every mistake you make, every success you have, every massive failure you have, just all as long as you learn from all of them, the good and the bad, I think really helps make you who you are. And, you know, i in in particular with password, I mean, that was definitely all my worlds converging at once. Like the kid who wanted to do the game show. The improviser, the the the huge wrestling fan who was also a wrestling manager, like all of this came together at once. and like there was a lot of cause it I it was actually within driving distance. It was in New Jersey where we taped. And so I and I drove and I think it was like a two and a half hour drive. And I just I remember really reflecting on my gosh, like my whole life has just converged to this moment. Efrain: Mm-hmm. Dan Stabb: And I like almost like flashback style started thinking of like the really cool improv things I did and the times I bombed and the really cool moments I had in wrestling and the gut time I knocked myself out because I didn't know how to fall right. Like all of that stuff is sort of playing in my head. but yeah, I I would definitely say it's, you know, where I'm at now is a result of just all of those moments. And like I said, good and bad. Like Efrain: Yeah. Dan Stabb: You you Efrain: It Dan Stabb: have to make those mistakes. Efrain: one thing you said, dreams do come true. And I think Dan Stabb: Mm-hmm. Efrain: so many times, even for those that you are facilitating too, is that they don't believe that sometimes it's possible. Coolest part is that Dan stands in front of someone and says, But every dream I had was it came to life. Maybe in a way that I didn't f you know, think of it, but it happened. Right. You didn't know the show password was going to be the thing or to meet the mids at the same time, like all that coming to life. But it happened. It just goes to show what happens when you're consistent, when you chase passion and purpose. And it's not so much paychecks, Dan, because I can imagine if you wanted to chase paychecks paychecks, it wouldn't be where we're at today because the work that you do is not about you. It's about how do we get others to really find that gig they want, to find that thing that they're tapped into. So Dan, talk to those individuals. That sometimes don't see themselves yet. how do you as a leader pour into that? Dan Stabb: I mean, I'll start with the very simplistic thing that a lot of people don't believe is you can do it. You have to believe you can do it, and you have to have this absolute willingness to mess up a lot. Because you will, and that's a good thing. We learn from where we mess up. We learn from the mistakes. Yeah, we hopefully we learn from our successes too, but it I mean. The thing I tell students all the time is that mistakes and rejections only define you if you give give them the power to. Like getting that no. And I've absolut here's my secret password wasn't the first game show I went out for. So I got no's before. Efrain: Mm-hmm. Dan Stabb: But you just if you can allow it to drive you and and because I remember each of those times, which was maybe two or three times that I went out for a show or at least put in an application for a show, you reflect and you're like, okay, what what could I have done differently? Note I didn't say how did I mess up? It's what could I have done differently that I can try next time? And I think for password, it was really not that I wasn't me, but it was just really going in. All in on just, you know, I'm just gonna be me and what whatever happens, happens. and so if it's something you want badly enough and you have the drive to do it, n nobody should be in your way. And that includes you. Cause I a lot a lot of the students I work with, sometimes I'll tell them, I'm like, the job market isn't your biggest obstacle. This conversation isn't your biggest obstacle. Like right now, you are. It's it's always like, I love you, but you are in your own way so hard right now. Just go ahead. If if they say no, they say no. You'll live to tell the tale and you'll learn from it. And you know, I think it because especially a lot of the students I work with, and this is where that empathy piece comes in, is that they've had those no's. I mean, we've all had them, but some students or some people in life have had more no's than others. Just life has told them no in some ways. And so that's the story that they've chosen to believe but but understandably that like I'm not worth this or I don't deserve good things because I just keep getting no so it I gotta be the problem. Efrain: Yep, yep. And they gotta know their work. Yeah, they gotta know their work. Yeah. Dan Stabb: No, you're worth. No, you're worth. Efrain: Quiet silence the noise. The noise does get very loud. You are right. We are our worst critics at times. We'll pick up subs apart. There was a point in my life where I felt I hated my voice and I've only done now three hundred, four hundred conversations, you know, that I have and I actually now smile at myself, like, look at him. You know, at one Dan Stabb: Right? Efrain: point, this guy didn't believe he could do it. And, you know, here he is doing it, at a doing exact what you said, Dan, interviewing wrestlers, something I never thought it would happen. So when we talk about dreams do come true. It does. You just can't give up on yourself, you know. while it's great that people believe in us. When do you start to believe in you? more importantly. So Dan, I really appreciate this. We could definitely continue to have this conversation, man. Where can people find more about what you guys are doing at Zipcode? Dan Stabb: So we are at zipcodewilmington.com. we are gonna be opening applications shortly for our 2027 cohorts. we're also on Instagram, Facebook, all the social medias. I think we gotta get on the TikTok wagon. but I think it's either depending on the I know, I know, we're trying. I I think depending on the platform, it might either be zip code Wilmington or Zipcode Wilm, but either way, you'll find us. Efrain: Got it, got it. Well, Dan, thank you so much for your time, man. Thank you so much for being authentically you for giving us so much information about your world today. If you guys are still watching, make sure you guys do like, subscribe, and comment. Because these are the conversations we continue to have with leaders like Dan. My name is Ephraim. This is Dan, and we'll catch you guys on the next one. Ladies. Dan Stabb: Thanks, everybody.