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From burnout to joy with Jenny · Under The Fur

• speaker-0: Welcome back to the Under the Fur podcast. And today we have Sasha with us, who is also a vet following in my footsteps, whether she likes it or not, because she is one of my new graduates, which you've got one more year of being called that, I believe. Yeah. Do we give leeway up to two years? I feel like we have leeway up to two years. So Sasha qualified just over a year ago and because she was very broke, started working straight away. speaker-1: Is that right? Yeah, no, completely. Like so many of my colleagues had like pretty much the whole summer. Some of them like didn't start work until January. I had like what two and half months off. speaker-0: Was it even that because you joined me in August? speaker-1: Yeah. So I think my last exam was beginning of June. ⁓ fine. No, no, that's a lie. That's a lie. I think it was middle of May that I finished. But I still working at Vets now right up until July. So I had like maybe a month off. I also was like trying to buy a house at the same time, which was horrendous. speaker-0: ⁓ my God, had loads of time off. also the most sensible person I've ever met because who buys a house in their first year of being a vet? speaker-1: ⁓ and also not just a house, but like a broken house. speaker-0: That you are still doing up. Yeah. Okay. So Sasha is a new grad vet that bought a house that she has to do up in her spare time. right. So why are you a vet? keep asking people by the way. It's really annoying, but I want to know. I'm interested. speaker-1: That's okay. So I mean, I'm a vet basically from, I spent a lot of my childhood watching Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, Steve Irwin, Crocodile Hunter. Would always, always, always watch, is it Big Hack Diary? ⁓ yeah. ⁓ my God. really wanted to be the lady. I can't remember her name, but I was obsessed. I was so obsessed. I was so convinced I was going to be like a wildlife vet. I mean, who knows? But yeah, so I just always wanted to be, because obviously the conservation is so important, but I wanted to be the, when they're like, ⁓ we've got this animal, like we need to see a vet. was like, I want to be that person. My godfather was also a vet. He graduated from Cambridge. He had his own vet practice. So obviously me and my family were quite involved because we had a lot of like, we had five cats, a dog, geese, chickens, all of the above. So it was quite involved, but yeah. So then I always wanted to be a vet. Just love animals, just always wanted to help them, always wanted to be a part of that world. speaker-0: I think that's the most wholesome answer I've ever heard. ⁓ Well, Jenny, who was on the last podcast, sitting in the corner over there watching us. She didn't even want to be a vet. Apparently I've just learned that she's my best friend. just learned that today. speaker-1: Yeah ⁓ Jenny! No way! ⁓ speaker-0: So I was wondering if you could share with us how it is the first year of being a vet. Cause it's so fresh for you. Very not like, I can't even remember those days myself. obviously I'm there, but I'm there from my perspective. And I would like to know from your perspective, how is it? What's great? What's terrible? Promise I won't sack you saying something really bad. Pretend that you're on, you're under oath to tell the truth. speaker-1: You got that on camera. Okay, okay. So first year of being a vet is probably one of the hardest things or one of the hardest years because in vet school, you've always got that buffer. You've always got that senior vet. You've always got those people who are kind of like your mentors or they are fully responsible. Obviously you and Callum and everyone kind of Jill, everyone kind of senior to me, you're always there to help, which I'm so grateful for. but it's more the sense of now it's actually your responsibility. So the biggest transition for me was kind of fifth year. I got on quite well with that, I'd like to think. But yeah, just kind of like being able to do like a few consults and like getting a little more stuck into surgery. But then at the end of the day, I'm not the one typing the notes. I'm not the one calling owners for follow-ups. I'm not the one reporting bloods. So it's all very much like, It's a bit more hands off, but you're still learning. And you're very much like going into that transition, I found the most difficult, like the amount of times where you'd be, I would have so many notes and they'd like, do your notes, do your notes. I was like, ⁓ no, I didn't. speaker-0: Well, yeah, I found another one you didn't do today actually. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, that'll be tomorrow. But it's just more of a case of like, I found that transition period into actually the responsibility coming onto me so much more. Because again, like it's just muscle memory, isn't it? Because whilst I could fully handle a consult, fine. But then it's actually that follow up and actually staying on track with the actual case for long term. Because in fifth year, you're only on placement for what? Four weeks in total. So. you can't really follow a case that well because sometimes the follow-ups will be like well over a month in advance or even just a surgery. Like you may not even be in on the day that they have a post-op. So it can just be quite difficult. So I just found that kind of quite hard to go into it. And no one really talks about it because everyone's just like, you have to do well at fifth year. You have to try and be the best vet that you can be. You've got to try and like absorb everything, which there's so much to try and absorb. ⁓ But then no one really talks about. Like you always say that the first year of being a vet, that's when you learn the most. That's when you're like fully become a vet. But then it's also the admin on top of that, that people don't really tell you about. And I think it's a little bit kind of almost closeted. So yeah, that's the kind of bit that I found most difficult. speaker-0: So I've subconsciously recognizing this from you because I've said, sash, you haven't done your notes. Sash, you, have you called the blood results? Whatever. But, ⁓ this is the first time I'm actually consciously thinking about it because I didn't realize you, you were like, case is done time to go home. Bye. Out of my mind. But, ⁓ that's, so that was a learning process. speaker-1: Yeah. And like, I'm still obviously you're still getting used to it. I've, I'd like to think I've gotten a lot better with it. But yeah, so I think for me, but that was the kind of like hardest bit of that being able to do kind of rotations pretty well. Like you get on with the team, like the communication with clients is fine. ⁓ And then the light, the medical and the surgical side, you've all learned that, but then it's fully your responsibility. And I think that's where. Yeah, I just found kind of the most hardest or the most difficult thing to transition to. speaker-0: Yeah. It's not what I thought you would say. Yeah. I thought that it would be, ⁓ managing a case or having to find diagnoses or stuff like that. Yeah. ⁓ which to be fair, you're very good at. I've been really lucky with both you and Ellie, like you've gone so quickly with, ⁓ learning cases and you've got good intuitions when it comes to what's going on and things, but that's what I thought you would say. I'm actually surprised. speaker-1: I think that's because that's like, that's an expected hard. Like you always just expect that that's the bit is also like, it's going to be hard. Like I will just say any new grads the first year you will not know anything. It's like, you will feel like the imposter syndrome is going to be so high because you're going to get in there and you're going to be confronted with something where you're like, okay, this, this looks like a kidney. Okay. I know, I know kind of what to do for your kidney. But when you've actually got it in real life, you're like, ⁓ my God. So then it's just kind of like actually kind of assimilating all of the knowledge that you've actually learned in vet school, putting that into a case where, yeah, you could just always kind of expect that to be difficult because again, everyone kind of prepares you for that. Everyone is like, you're gonna feel like you don't know anything. The first year of vet is gonna be the most difficult. So I feel for me at least, I was expecting that. And also because I've got... really supportive team with Ellie and Jill and you and kind of everyone is very like, I don't know, was just, everyone just feels really supportive. So I just, I know that I can always not fall back on you guys, but I know that I've always kind of got that kind of clinical discussion there whenever I need it. But then when it's actually my responsibility, it's like, ⁓ that's probably the most frightening thing. speaker-0: Yeah. And how did you find, ⁓ so I know the work life balance is super important to you as we know, cause I referenced you recently and your walks. I was like, Jen Z like to go for a walk during the day. Where are these boundaries? never had these before. It's amazing. ⁓ and I know, part of the reason we get on so well is that speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. speaker-0: you're athletic and that, know, love how much I love sports. I don't shut the hell up about it actually. But I love that you're, really athletic and sporty. You've got amazing muscles, which I look at all the time. There's no HR here. obviously that takes time doing sports and training, which is, know is really important to you. It takes time. also doing up your new house that you've bought. You're weirdo. Anyway, how was it to go? from student to these quite long work hours. speaker-1: So it's actually really funny because I, so I worked before university. So I worked from when I was, I mean, obviously I was like a waitress from like 16 or whatever, but from 18, I just worked anyway. But looking back on it, there was a point where I would get up, literally get up at like half five, go to the gym before work, cycle to work, spend an eight hour day at work. And then I would go either training or go work in the pub, or I would then go dancing or like I would have all of these things. I was like, How... how did I even do that? speaker-0: Yeah. I often think this. used to train in the morning. Yeah. Go in my lunch break to do weight training. Yeah. So that the like some sort of cardio wherever the morning weight training in the middle of day and then go to like basketball training in evening. Now I'm like, I go home and I sit on my bum. Yeah. I'm tired. speaker-1: And also I think it's not really talked about, the whole like the physical and the mental exhaustion of starting work, like starting like a big girl job again, I don't think it's really talked about because I always thought I'd be like, I can do this. Like I can get up in the morning. I could go for a run in the morning. Then I could go to work. I could maybe have like a little lunch break, like maybe go for a run at lunch, all of these things. And then I literally get home and I'm like exhausted. speaker-0: Yes. Yeah. Don't talk to me. Yeah. Yeah. I think I told you in your first week, I was like, just be kind to yourself this month because this is a lot and you're going to be exhausted. So like your first month or six weeks, whatever you are very tired. It's a huge adaptation. Yeah. What I'm hearing is you didn't believe me. speaker-1: No, no, but also again, have, I have the kind of like, complete buffers of my own, like, I don't know, confidence or whatever. just like, I'll be fine. speaker-0: I'm limitless, I can do that. speaker-1: I should be fine. But then I was like, ⁓ I can't get home. I feel really bad for my boyfriend, Alex, because again, that's also something that's not really talked about because obviously his work schedule is completely different to mine. So like really trying to like build a relationship and also build a house is also really hard and that's something that's talked about, but it's just really trying to find that balance of finding the time and also just being like, it's actually okay. Cause I definitely, that was definitely, I always remember that and always have that in the back of my head. Where you saying like, don't be so hard on yourself. I'm like, I'm not even being hard on myself. Like I can do these things. speaker-0: you are. You're very hard on yourself. And I've actually seen when something's not quite right for you or it's not been perfect, you're really angry with yourself. speaker-1: I don't really feel that because again, I know that like mistakes are going to happen and I feel like I can accept them. But I didn't realize that I was so angry about it. speaker-0: Yeah. I'm going to show you what your face looks like. There's like a little widening of the eyes and dead silence from you. Like silence. speaker-1: Yeah. So this is the thing. It was so funny. So I got into work this morning. I don't know. Again, I was just, I didn't sleep that well. Cases all of the above. And I got into work and there was like a, I think a 15 minute gap between when consults were starting. And I was just sat there just at my laptop trying to do things. And Kate like literally popped her head around the corner being like, are you okay? And I was like, yeah, I'm fine. Just, she's like, you're really quiet. I was like, speaker-0: We think you're angry. ⁓ speaker-1: But this is the thing, feel like every source from Veronica would just be like, have a snack. speaker-0: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. She's very good at reading people. ⁓ my God. That's funny. Actually. So I'm going to tell you something about Sasha, which is, think was my favorite thing when you first started. Sasha always has snacks. Yeah. She always has snacks. So every day you come into work with your, was a carrier bag then I've upgraded you. Yeah. A carrier bag full of speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. speaker-0: fun snacks. I remember I didn't even tell you I was doing this at the start until afterwards. Basically every day I looked in your snack bag because I was just so curious. Like what snacks does she have today? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm so obsessed with it to the that I bought you a bag to carry your snacks in. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. was gonna say, ⁓ that would have been actually really good. I should have brought it today, but actually I went out with it and I was like, ⁓ look at my little snack bag. But yeah, so I love, and also Phoenix, she loves trying to find what snacks I've got. speaker-0: She does. She's like her mom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot my dog ate your bag of snacks. speaker-1: Not even, she broke the Tupperware of my lunch into it. speaker-0: Yeah, she's a large dog. That's no problem for her. She can get into a tupperware very easily. Do know what she did the other day? took, Beth was down for some filming. She took Beth's snacks off the table, opened them all, sniffed or licked, and then said she didn't want them. So just left them on the floor. So Beth's hummus, right off. She had just opened it. Licked a tiny bit and then go, nah, you keep that. So I was like, ⁓ do you want it back? She's like, no, no, don't think I'm gonna eat that. Even the carrots. Really? She just opened the bag of carrots and was like, nah, don't want those. speaker-1: Now bless us. ⁓ I mean, again, she can get away with it because she's so cute. speaker-0: Yeah, and the boss's child. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Alex literally adored her. He really wanted to keep her. speaker-0: No, no, sorry. I'll get her back from you. So what do you like about vetting now? What's your favorite? speaker-1: Not in the flat, but that's okay. What I love about vetting, ⁓ my team, 100%. ⁓ you're so cute. I don't know. Maybe I'm just like, what's the whole like, ⁓ is it Stockholm syndrome? speaker-0: ⁓ God, could be. Yeah. Sorry about that. speaker-1: But again, feel like just because obviously Callum has basically, he's seen my whole journey. So then he's always been like that kind of mentor for me. So I just speaker-0: You worked at best now with him as an animal care assistant while you were studying. Yes. So in your free time like, Callum was your, what your line manager there. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And he's now your line manager again. ⁓ speaker-1: it's on I can't get away from him. So yeah, so I love the team and like, it's going to sound so silly, but when I first started vet school, I was just kind of with my friends and I just started in first year. And I remember thinking again, I was just like, I want to walk with some people. And I was like, I have never felt more kind of like a part of. the profession. So I like my, my best friend, Ines, like basically we said that exactly the same thing where it's like, ⁓ obviously in the amount of jobs that I've done beforehand, like it's never really clicked again. Didn't really enjoy them that much. Yeah. Apart from personal training. love being a personal trainer. ⁓ but kind of all the other profession, just never, it was just, it's just, it's just never really fit with me. Whereas in this profession, I just feel like these are my people. And like a lot, think a lot of people were like, will actually relate to that because I don't know, we're just a bit weird, aren't we? Like mildly tapped to be in this. speaker-0: We're very weird. Yeah. I so. So yeah. Yeah. Okay. So not surgery then. ⁓ okay. was going for a way more shallow answer from you. If you don't mind. Yeah. That was really deep. speaker-1: ⁓ no. I'm actually really deep. know, absolutely love loving surgery. ⁓ I'm feeling so much more competent now ⁓ and kind of really getting tucked, like really stuck in. even just kind of client communication as well. Like I've now, I've now got to the point where clients are actually asking for me, which again is like, that feels really good. you're like, yeah, because now I actually feel like, ⁓ they're like, it's not even just like they trust me. now and it's like, obviously they like me, but again, it's kind of always like, we're all lovely. Like you can't really tell us apart in that sense. But the fact that either they had their first appointment with me and they're like, ⁓ like I actually want to see her again. That's really nice. So I've got some really, really great clients. And Veronica told me the other day that one came in and I think I was consulting and there's this little guy, he's a little dude. His name is Sankey. I love him, he's great. And he didn't like the other vets beforehand. So I was very much like, I was trying to be like as hands off as possible. Cause I didn't want like that association, but now he like comes in, we can do all tricks. He like dragged the owner in and I was like, ⁓ I love him. So yeah, just like building that connection and building that rapport with clients is really, 100%. And also just like, it's always a challenge every, every single day is different. It's never, even if you're like, speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Okay, I've got ops and then I've got these consults. It's literally never going to be the same because something, heat stroke guinea pig will come in. Okay, cool. I guess we're doing that now. ⁓ And also just the fact of like, it's always different, but it's always a bit of a challenge because you're always going to see something that you've never seen before. I mean, even you, I'm just like, like you and Callum, when I'm just like, you guys are just so like, I don't know, just have all of the knowledge, but then you're like, ⁓ I haven't seen that before. I'm like. speaker-0: Yeah. What do we do now? We call Jenny. That's what we do. We call Jenny. Yeah. Yeah. I actually remember once calling her. I think it was maybe two, three in the morning on Australian time. And by the way, there's no need for this phone call. ⁓ My massive Akita had eaten one grape. ⁓ one grape. Yeah. It would be totally fine. And I called her like, Jenny, is he going to die? ⁓ my God. Is he going to die? Because it was my dog. So I had no thought process. And she's like, I'm going to go back to sleep. think you'd be fine. Obviously he was fine. Yeah. Yeah. That one tiny grave wasn't going to kill him, but yeah. There's always things that we need help for. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. I think like, yeah, that's just all those like little facets of veterinary that I just love as well. So. speaker-0: Yeah. I think it helps it. I think you've got wicked sense of humor or you're hiding it. don't know. Cause I know that when I'm in theater with Cal and we're quite savage to each other, to the point where people think that we're arguing and that we hate each other, but we've just got that sick sense of humor and we rib each other all the time. You've been a really funny comment once you came in and you were like, mom and dad are fighting. I don't like it when they fight. speaker-1: It's so triggering for me because I'm an only child so I'm like, ⁓ my god, they're fighting. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. And I think I remember once, ⁓ he was, he was just being sassy to us one day and you were closing and he said to him, he said to you, well, by the time you've closed that wound, be time for the post-op check. speaker-1: Honestly, like we've said this so many times, I'm gonna write a book. I'm gonna, I'm really gonna write a book and everyone's gonna be like, you did so well. And I'm gonna be like, thank you. speaker-0: You survived the SAS. speaker-1: Yeah. But again, it's like, you always got to try and just have a bit of like, it's just work, isn't it? It's just going to be a bit stale. Like you just got to like mildly rib each other sometimes. Just to just keep everyone on their toes. think that's, I think that's healthy. speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then I want you to talk a little bit about the sport because I was so impressed when you told me what you do. speaker-1: ⁓ So I've been a pole vaulter since I was 12 years old. speaker-0: So scary looking! speaker-1: So every like so often people like I've never met a pole vaulter before like yeah, you probably won't because we're like few and far between like I Will hang on to the fact that I am Norfolk County champion and hopefully we'll cling on to that. Yeah But yeah, so I I've done that since I was 12 I've like always really really enjoyed it. Everyone said to like ask me. ⁓ my gosh. How did you get into that and honestly? I think so from, obviously because I was so young and this was so many years ago, I asked my parents and they were like, so you know the show Gladiator, one where like the old school one, there was an athlete on there called Lightning and apparently she was a pole vaulter and I was like, I want to be like her. And then I just obviously saw it on the Olympics and literally just. asked my parents like, ⁓ can I try that? And I was like very lucky that my parents then got me in touch with my first coach and my first athletics club. And again, like even though I'm so short, like I'm quite like powerful. So I was always just good at sprinting, just always like a generally good all rounder. But pole vault was where I kind of like switched and that was just my, that was my thing. Yes, yeah. Also, I just had to be awkward. had to choose, arguably, I'm gonna say the most difficult. speaker-0: That's what a fit is you. speaker-1: because we've got to be a sprinter, a gymnast and also a jumper. all of the... speaker-0: I was ruled out at gymnast. That's not me. speaker-1: Yeah. So yeah, so we have to be all of these things, but then also you have to carry like a 15 foot pole bag everywhere you go, every single competition. So ⁓ traveling is always a massive issue. I've only flown with my poles once and that was terrifying because people ask, ⁓ can you just like unscrew them and like fold them together almost like a snooker queue? Right. That does not happen that you can't do that. speaker-0: I didn't even think about this. Holes have to come. You don't just like borrow one while you're there. I don't know if I told you, I used to throw the discus. And obviously I had my own ones for ⁓ training. But if I turned up to a competition, no, I use theirs. Really? Yeah. Maybe I was poor. Yeah, no, would use the ones over there. speaker-1: Yeah, so they're like. Yeah speaker-0: Yeah, you don't. No, absolutely. That makes sense. Yeah, because you should use somebody else's. speaker-1: No, so every single poll is completely individual to like weight, flex and height as well. bearing in mind, I'm like what 130, 130 pounds or something. My polls, they range from like 125 to 155 pounds of weight that they can take before they snap. yeah, luckily that's never happened to me. speaker-0: What if you've had like a big night and a McDonald's and you're just coming out bit chunky? What do we do? Upgrade the poll? speaker-1: So genuinely, I went out the night before training session once. was still, I was still pissed at that point. I was still very drunk and I then got to training, honestly, best training session of my life. I had no fear. I was just like, wow, absolutely fully sent it. I was like, I literally, I sobered up as the session went on and I was like, wow. Maybe, well, I was like, maybe should I just be drunk the whole time? like, no, I shouldn't. speaker-0: I guess. Yeah. Now you know what, if you let go of the control, that's what you could achieve. speaker-1: Yeah. basically what I found is that to be a good athlete, you just have to not think. speaker-0: Yeah. Go with your instincts. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. That's all you need. Yeah. Whenever you overthink something, it's, it's your worst performance ever. speaker-1: That's what you need. Yeah, exactly. yeah, so each pole is like individual in terms of length and everything. So my friend, Frankie, he, used to train with him, shout out Frankie. His poles would be like, I don't know, 15 foot and like almost 200 pounds. So his is like a scaffold pole compared to mine. So yeah, it's just like all very individual, which is why you can't turn up to a competition and like use. speaker-0: So you've got to get them on the easy jet. Yes. Right. speaker-1: Like I was again, I was really lucky because I was able to train with my group. went over to Spain. It was like a really great time. I've never been good enough to compete internationally. I don't know. Never say never. Yeah, but I don't know. I would love to actually, cause my coach says all the time you're a full me to Volta. So I really want to try and get to that potential because yeah, I see now and I really need to try and. Yeah. speaker-0: Not all of us can. ⁓ amazing. with that. Yeah. So what's future Sasha vet going to be? speaker-1: ⁓ I think I'm an author bro. ⁓ yes. Yeah, I know. ⁓ speaker-0: So proud. It's like watching my child grow. speaker-1: Yeah, because I don't know, orthopedics is just so interesting and it's slightly less frightening than soft tissue surgery, I will say. And I just feel a lot more confident in any sort of orthopedics kind of being under you as well. Like just having that kind of complete mentorship. You don't really get taught it in university. Like obviously you have kind of cadavers and those sorts of things. But actually kind of going out and seeing everything and helping you has been like done me a world of. speaker-0: good. Yeah. I mean, it might also be just, ⁓ it's skewed, right? What you see with me, cause we get the orthopedic referrals in. you're probably excellent at soft tissue as well. You just haven't had the exposure yet. But, ⁓ I was just thinking actually today you pretty much did that TPLO by yourself. I just came for the one scary bit. Yeah. Hold your hand for that bit. But otherwise, ⁓ it's quite amazing what you've achieved in a year. I'm really proud of you and, I remember I had to sit you down and say, I'm really pushing you into orthopedics. I just need to double check. Like the thought crossed my mind. was like, you do want to do this, right? Or have I actually bullied you into it? speaker-1: Yeah, no, like I definitely find surgery like that's more, that's definitely more my jam. ⁓ So yeah, I just want to try and get a bit better at my medicine and that's the only thing. speaker-0: which you're actually good at. I think I told you this the other day, you were like, maybe I'm not so good. And I was like, actually you are still ahead of what I would expect you to be with that. It's just that you're very good at surgery. So it's not like medicine was lacking. It's just you've excelled in this one area. speaker-1: But yeah, so Soda is definitely kind of the path that I want to go. speaker-0: And how do you think your experience and how you feel and what you've seen and what you've done compares to other people that were in your cohort at uni? speaker-1: I mean, compared to some of my colleagues, it's, I think I've had a lot more maybe exposure to a lot of different cases, mainly just because obviously we're quite a small team and arguably we're quite a small practice. Obviously with your referral orthopedics, I've seen a lot of that. But also we've had some really kind of interesting cases come our way, which I don't know why, because like in the area that we are, there's obviously like a few vets around, but I just think that we just seem to get really good, interesting cases. We speaker-0: We have attracted the most bizarre things recently. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. So I don't really, I don't get why, but obviously I'm really grateful for that. And I do feel that, I don't know, it's really difficult because some of my colleagues that I've spoken to have been like, ⁓ haven't, feel like I haven't really seen many things or they maybe, yeah, like maybe they haven't, like, I don't know, like obviously people want to try and do the surgery because obviously that's, it's the kind of thing that you don't kind of get to practice. huge amount. So the more you do, the more you're going to be confident with it. So everyone always wants that exposure in the first instance. So, I think because we are a small team, I think I've had that. And also because I've had like you and Ellie and Jill kind of being there with me, not necessarily holding my hand, but sometimes being there as a support has been super, super helpful and like has really, really benefited me. ⁓ speaker-0: Sometimes. speaker-1: And I think just being able to crack on sometimes. Like I think that I'd like to think that like you and the team have had some confidence to be like, okay, Sasha can, she can handle that. We know that she can do that. Which again has been really, really nice because obviously you guys maybe have faith in me that I can do those things. So yeah, that's kind of where. speaker-0: And I'll say the phone calls have reduced. So I'd say you're getting on well. Yeah. You are calling me less. This is my judge of it. It's the weekends when you're on your own with the weekends. The first, you know, obviously the first ones you would call me for pretty much every case was lovely. It was fine. That's why I was there for. That's why I was your mentor. So that's And now you can go a whole weekend without contacting me. know. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Crazy. Yeah. speaker-1: You don't want a time off, do No. speaker-0: Sometimes I'm like, she doesn't need me anymore. speaker-1: Gosh, again, so just say this is on record. Yeah, I would like to point out there again, Callum, so sorry, but I got a cannula that he did not get. I know. I was wagging around the whole practice. So he was like, you don't need me anymore. And I was like, no, no. Yeah, do. Back. ⁓ yeah, but I was like, ⁓ the one time I was like. speaker-0: The child has grown. Yeah. Don't worry. His ego will be fine. couldn't intubate a cat today and I just passed it over to him and said, do that mate. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. So again, I feel like I've just kind of like tried to claw up just like one up. Yeah. That's okay. One time for like one out of a hundred thousand. speaker-0: Yeah. No, it's You take it. You take that win. His ego can take it. Yeah. And I know we had one difficult case recently that was really difficult for you to navigate the aftermath because you had done a procedure on a dog. You had done nothing wrong. We went through all of it together. We went through the anesthesia that, well, it was a sedation, wasn't even an anesthesia. The procedure, we couldn't find any faults. And unfortunately that dog, ⁓ I think the next day passed away. And that was really difficult for you to navigate. And I don't know if I told you this, but I struggled to support you because I didn't know how to. ⁓ Because I think emotionally you're a little bit more in touch with your emotions than I am. And I just thought I felt like you needed more from me. and I, ⁓ so I actually spoke to some friends and I was like, I feel like she needs like hugs and stuff, but I'm not very good at it. I don't like to be touched. I haven't told you this, right? And they were like, assign a hugger. This is what they told me. They were like, get somebody in the practice that is okay with hugging and get them to hug her. And then I was like, ⁓ I can do that. I can do that. So I checked in with Kate and she was like, I've had her. I had her. speaker-1: So Kate was my saving grace that first weekend by myself as a new grad. think that was like, I don't know, six weeks. It's always like, I don't know, all of my roles seem to be back, back to some of the fire, but yeah, was like, she hit the fan. It was unbelievably busy. So, so glad that grace was there because if she wasn't with rags. ⁓ my goodness. I remember being in like the staff room and I've just been like getting mildly overwhelmed. And Kate was like, are you okay? Like you're doing so well. And I was like. But yeah, so I was like, but then I was like, pull myself together, like big girl that I am and got on with it. And arguably it was a pretty successful weekend. speaker-0: No, it was, it was. my God, it was horrendous. No, let me tell you, Kate has saved me many times. She has picked me up off the floor in the concert room, crying my eyes out. like, and that I need to get her on actually, cause I was saying like veterinary receptionists. Essential, like I couldn't live without her. She has saved my back many times emotionally or with clients or with whatever difficult situation has been in. She knows. speaker-1: ⁓ different. speaker-0: she knows what she's doing. ⁓ Yeah. So that's again, it's your team around you, isn't it? So she's your assigned hugger in case you were wondering. speaker-1: I like I put that role on her anyway. speaker-0: Honestly, I went to check with him. She's like, I've already done that. I've hugged her. So, okay, great. I'm a fixer. like, I can give you solutions to this problem and how to deal with it. speaker-1: But I think so the thing with that particular case, was more the fact of one, there wasn't anything that was wrong. And I think that was the biggest thing. And also I felt so guilty. The fact that obviously the dog went home fine, absolutely completely fine. And in my head I like, just wish that he was still at the practice. So then I felt like I could have actually done something. I feel like I could have actually helped. when arguably the dog kind of needed me the most. So that was something that I still, obviously that's gonna stay with me forever. ⁓ But again, it's just, yeah, it was really hard. speaker-0: It's horrendous and it's something that you need to learn how to deal with. Yeah. Yeah. The first time you come across it, that's the first time you've come across it and it's your responsibility because you were the vet on duty. Yeah. Would anything different have happened if it was me or somebody else? Absolutely not. But you were the one there and you were the vet in charge and it's just something, unfortunately, it's medicine. Yeah. That's what we're doing and we're not always going to have a positive outcome despite what we do. And unfortunately, as a new grad, you just got to learn how to deal with it. And sometimes how to forgive yourself for things and move on. speaker-1: And this is like, again, kind of the amount of ⁓ like meetings that we've had about it and like all the discussions in that realistically, as you said, even if it was someone else, it would have been exactly the same outcome. Unfortunately, it's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. ⁓ But yeah, I think trying to get over that and actually be like, I feel like I've done something so wrong, but looking at it, there was nothing, there was literally nothing. So then it's also just kind of like, not even, because I didn't really feel like to forgive myself. It was just like that awful bad feeling that ultimately I caused it. And just trying to navigate that feeling, again, it's gonna stay with me forever. Cause now every single, every single grass seed, it will always be in the back of my head, always, no matter what. But then it's just a case of, speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: just do like, and even now, like, as you say, like we are doing medicine, it's not clear cut. And I think that is also, that is one of the, like the biggest things is that one, you may not get an answer. And that is something so hard to try and deal with because we're fixes. That's the whole, like we're problem solvers. That's why we go into medicine. I'm sure that's why a lot of human doctors also go into medicine because speaker-0: What you gonna do? speaker-1: That's just their characteristic. That's their personality. Problem solvers. When you can't get that, it's so, so frustrating. ⁓ So it's just, yeah, really trying to deal with that. speaker-0: Stick to orthopedics. Bone broken, bone fixed. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's literally why, ⁓ my first, I don't think that I was actually at university at that point, but one of the first placements that I went on, the vet was very much like, I'm a surgeon through and through because you go into surgery, you either fix the dog or something happens. And either way. Yeah. One or the other. And like, yeah, you, basically, you kind of solved it or speaker-0: Buenos Dias! speaker-1: it's not solved or you will fix it at the end of the day. So I think that's also why like surgery is also very much that you go in, you fix it, done. Yes. Which is super helpful. speaker-0: Yeah. We'll leave those roundabouts and windy roads and whatever to the medics. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. But again, so as you said, just the fact that because we're doing medicine, I've actually now kind of started throwing that into most of my admits as well, just being like, your dog has had countless sedations. Nothing has gone wrong before. Biology just happens sometimes. It will be that one day, that one bad reaction that you can't predict and you just can't like... I don't know, you can't predict it even with all of the blood work in the world. Like it would just be that one bad reaction. And obviously not to try and like jump scare owners, but they have to also like our job is to lay out all of the options, lay out all the risks so owners can make an informed decision. If I would be devastated if someone went into either one of my surgeries or I was admitting something for the practice. and the owner didn't actually realize that there is a risk of death with any sedation because unfortunately, even though it's wildly reduced, it's always there. And you can do everything to mitigate against those, but just making sure that they're as informed as possible. Communication, communication is always going to be the key in dealing with clients and your team. So I think... speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: when you get the breakdown, that's where problems happen. just trying to make sure that everything is as informed, but not complicated is also a fine arts. Alex will tell me that sometimes I just need to reel it in a little bit. Yeah, no, generally, cause he's like, why are you talking so much? speaker-0: point session. Why are you still talking? Why are you using so many words? speaker-1: I don't even use that big of words. He's the word guy, but yeah. So that's very much, it's just something that you'll just learn and just making sure that. speaker-0: But on the whole, your first year, thumbs up, thumbs down. speaker-1: Yeah, Absolutely cracking. ⁓ It's been obviously a huge learning curve. A lot of new grad vets are going to feel pretty much the same. I think that everyone has that little bit of imposter syndrome. Everyone feels that they're not good enough. People are going to do silly things. You're going to accidentally prescribe steroids to a cat that's already on a non-steroidal like... It's going to happen. It's just going to happen. You just fix the mistake. You just fix the mistake. You own your mistake. learn from it. So yeah, that's, that's the kind of biggest advice I can say for new grads is that mistakes are going to happen. You like, have to, you have to accept that regardless of who you are. If your medicine, if your knowledge is so on point, you're going to make the mistake of communicating to the client. One thing like speaker-0: My bra's always full. Don't do it again. Absolutely. speaker-1: they are just going to happen. You just have to kind of hope that it's not significant enough that something then really bad happens. So that's the kind of biggest thing that I can take. Or that's the biggest advice that I say to any, like either any students or ⁓ anyone that we come in, like that they come into the practice for placements. It's just accepting the states are gonna happen. It's okay. Just owning them, trying to fix them and just hoping that they're not significant enough. speaker-0: Thank you so much for coming and sharing. I know I gave you no brief and didn't tell you what we were going to talk about, which is difficult for you because you like information. We've done amazing. I think it's going to help a lot of people going into veterinary mezzanine in their first years just to hear your stories. speaker-1: Yeah, hopefully. ⁓ Ultimately, like we literally are all like one big team and like we're literally here to try and build up one another. So I think that if just one little sentence or one little emotion is just going to help someone, I think that's kind of worth it. speaker-0: It's a wrap. Thank you, Sasha. speaker-1: Thanks for having me. It's been fun. Love the phone.