Latest / The People Run Podcast / #53 From Paralysis to Leadville 100 | Sean Casey

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#53 From Paralysis to Leadville 100 | Sean Casey · The People Run Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: 14 years old, man.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: You were told you you may not walk again, man.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: You were part paralyzed.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now you run ultras and marathons.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Hell, you got a shirt on right now that says run clothes.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: How does it feel to even come that far and how does this happen?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: You go from I may not walk to I run ultras now.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a big question.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: It feels great.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean to to start, I mean, I am the luckiest guy in the world.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've been given opportunity after opportunity to uh to come back and bounce back and be able to be healthy enough now to uh be able to you know do what I love and and share the story with with other people and hope that they can take something away from it and be excited about moving and and inspired to move.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, I mean I'm happy to go into any of the details of of that.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: If yeah.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk a little bit before what was early life for.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Did you play sports initially and then it kind of eventually unfortunately did the paralyzed happen or or like where'd the love for sports come from?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I grew up always playing sports.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: My my family's rule was I had to play every sport at least for one season.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so my parents were like, if you play one season and you hate it, you never have to play again.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's you know, it just give it one try.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I played soccer, was the one that I just I could not, I had no interest in playing soccer at all.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, don't know why, I just I just wasn't wasn't passionate about it.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but baseball, basketball, and football was football is my main sport.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um baseball and basketball I always played growing up, and then it was kind of around football where football was what I really loved.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we had Charger season tickets when I was a kid, so we always used to go to the games, and so I kind of just fell in love with football, and that was really what I wanted to do.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was playing football like my whole life, and in seventh grade, I got sick, and within you know 72 hours of being completely normal and healthy, I was full paralysis in the hospital, intubated, breathing through a tube in the ICU, and it it happened so fast, right?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was 13, I was in seventh grade, and I didn't really know what was happening to me, honestly.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: It happened so quickly, and I was so healthy and I mean I was just a kid playing sports with his friends, and you know, and I got uh diagnosed with something called Guillain Baret syndrome, which is an autoimmune disorder where your immune system attacks your nervous system.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I just got fully shut down basically uh really quickly.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: It started with my feet being asleep, and then like it was up to my knees, and then very rapidly continued from there, and I was not able to to breathe on my own or you know do anything.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in the hospital for 94 days total during that time of in the ICU for 21 days, and yeah, I mean it was a full paralysis, learning how to walk again, learning how to use my hands, learning how to do everything again, which as a kid is is pretty tough, especially coming from an athletic background.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's what I love to do when you're all my friends played sports, my my dad coached me.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: All I I was sports, sports, sports, you know, always growing up, and got that taken away from me, you know, in a matter of three, four days, which uh you know is is tough.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: What do you remember thinking around like 14, man?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's such a formative couple of years, you know, following 14, 15, man, and I'm sure you know, playing sports, you have friends playing sports, and you out of nowhere to get this autoimmune.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like what happened first, first thoughts.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: It it was tough mentally.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I looked sick, right?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was paralyzed.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was uh almost my height now.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was like 6'2, and I I 109 was my lowest weight.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I was 6'2, 109.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty uh pretty lean build uh that I had.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was, you know, it was it was clear.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I had uh a certain confidence about me being an athlete and you know the way you carry yourself and all that, that your identity is tied up in that, you know, all the things I can do, how far I can throw a ball, how fast I can run, all these things that I make me who I am, or I I thought, were taken away in you know a short amount of time, which caused a crisis for sure mentally and emotionally because I didn't know who I was without those things.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, all of this is retrospective during that actual time.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was just so crazy that I and I honestly tried to not remember a lot of it, but looking back, I can kind of piece together the way I was feeling and and the process of of recovering and coming back from that stuff.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was it was really hard, and you know, you become or you think you become the sick kid or the kid in the wheelchair.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had a ton of friends, I it was a small community, like everyone knew what was happening.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: There was a GoFundMe and the whole thing, so it was like I felt like that everyone was looking at me all the time.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was I was in a power chair, and then I was in a wheelchair, and it just it hurt to be in that position because that's not who I felt like I was.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I got really insecure about it all the time.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I I hated it, of course.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I really hated it, which now you know that I uh outwardly I I'm healthy and and I feel good, it's uh I empathize with people in those positions because I've I've been there and mine wasn't permanent, and luck luckily I was able to you know make a recovery, but that's not everyone.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I I've been in that seat before for a pretty long period of time, and it it definitely changed the way that I I look at that.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you see people at a marathon start line pushing the wheelchair, and like nothing fires me up more than that, or getting pushed in a wheelchair, they're not even doing they're you know, they're along for the ride, and you know, like that fires me up because I know how important it is just to even if you're not doing it, like just to be out there is so huge.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it it changed a a lot for me, especially now that I've I've grown up a little bit.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: How did your uh family and friends like carry you like mentally through that?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that you you had a lot of support there and also you made it through, but like what was it like them carrying you during that time, like mentally wise?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Everything.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: My family was there the whole time.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: There was someone sleeping in the hospital.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: I never spent a night alone in the hospital.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Someone was there with me.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have two younger sisters who I so I was 13 at the time, I'm 26 now, and they were both really young when it happened, so their lives were also turned upside down.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they their parents now live at the hospital, you know, things look different for them as well.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my my parents were there through everything.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: My whole extended family, I was lucky enough that they all live in San Diego as well.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I I just had a crazy support system for them that, you know, my extended family was able to watch after my sisters so that my parents could be there for me and they would just take turns.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, without that, I don't know what I would have done.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I never spent any time alone there.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: I had great friends there.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had really my my two best friends, Spencer and Grant, who they're the two guys that I still stick with to this day.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Those are my boys.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they were just like always there, like all these guys are just you know so supportive.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And like these I met them both through sports, which is like very telling of the type of relationships that it builds.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I could not have, I do not claim to have done this on my own.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was a true community effort to get me back to to health.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Did you ever have doubt, like, hey, I don't know if I'm gonna recover from this, or just that support made it like no, we're gonna get through this.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to get into something else to answer that question.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: The I I've been sick twice.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the first time I got sick, I had no doubts I was going to recover.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if why that is.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: The support system was very helpful.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was very young and naive, and I just thought I am ready to play sports again, that's about to happen all the time.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm a week away, always just like tomorrow I'm gonna be fine.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just had this little kid mentality of this is not real, I'm just ready to go outside.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that honestly helped me because I was I just envisioned it all the time of being better, and I I think that plays a factor.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I recovered from this and I got sick again, and it's called aplastic anemia, and it's another autoimmune bone marrow shutdown.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So my body was no longer producing blood.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: When I got sick that time, that was a little bit different mentally because being sick again was different than being sick the first time.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of changed the identity.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I talk a lot about identity, and I kind of became someone who got sick after that because the first time you just get sick, and then you become someone who who is sick, right?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're it's like what's next.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And there was not a lot of time in between those things.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had just recovered, I'd just gotten back on the football field, and then very quickly after that, I was uh I was back in the hospital again.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it was that one was definitely rougher mentally, as far as my outlook on recovery.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wow man, that that's amazing to see you back.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, happy to be back.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: You had to relearn a lot, man.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, like and it's wild that 14 having to learn in such a young age.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do people misunderstand about learning, relearning basic movement, arm movement, walk movement?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you have to do shoulder stuff, uh back stuff.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's hard to describe what it was like.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And there are a lot of I feel like the recovery process as a whole, it's hard for me to uh uh speak on, but I do remember these small little details of things that I had to do that were just excruciatingly annoying and frustrating to have to do.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the one that I always think back to is these pencil eraser tops that go on top of the pencil, and I had to sit there for hours just taking it off and putting it on to learn how to use my fingers, and I have to use the different finger to put it on and pick it up and learn how to squeeze it and learn the sensations of touching it.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had to fill out connect four boards just over and over, just picking up the pieces and filling it up.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a sentence and it's the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog, and that sentence has every letter of the alphabet.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to type and write this sentence over and over and over again in order to learn how to use my I had to get an iPad for school because I wasn't in school.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: I had to do all of this crap that was just so frustrating for someone who I was all the way there mentally, and I just felt like I was going, and it's necessary.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I got I had great treatment, it was not uh bad treatment that is way, it's just the way it is.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to do this stuff over and over again with these repetitions to get better, which was super tough.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then on that's kind of you know the more occupational therapy side, and then on the physical therapy side, um recovery happens slower, both I guess slower and faster than I thought it would.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um day by day, it's really hard to notice any difference because it was trying to sit up, and then it was.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have videos where I literally move my arm from here to here, and there's like a big celebration because I was able to do that, you know, which is insane because I had no that was a win.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like you go to the power chair and you learn how to use the little tool and start to learn how to, you know, use the wheelchair.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, like day to day, there's not a lot of difference, but if you zoom out in like a two week span, then you you have a big jump in recovery.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was able to sit up, or you know, I was you know, these big milestones happen, so it it's really hard when you're in it and it's and it's you you feel like nothing's happening because day to day you wake up and you feel like you don't have a new skill, you can't, you're not getting better.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, if you zoom out a little bit, you're really making a lot of progress.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: You feel like that therapy process and learning all those small things was slowly ramping you and teaching you in the future for running, getting ready for running, you know, like small win celebration in the grand scheme of things, you got a building block.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know how it's gonna end, but then towards the end you make it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great uh comparison.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: All of the runners know, you know, the difference between your Tuesday run and your Thursday run.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're not getting that much more fit, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're just you're not gonna hit some new crazy split that you've never done before two days prior.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: But if you zoom out instead of two days, two months, yeah, you're like, whoa, my heart rate's 15 beats per minute lower at the same pace.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is crazy, you know, you make this progress.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think that it definitely helps me like have the bigger picture mindset.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it's very easy to get bogged down in the day-to-day stuff, like, oh, I could do that run last week, why can't I do it this week?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like maybe you had a bad diet for like two days and you're you know, you're still getting fitter.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's it's not that big of a deal.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean it's so easy.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I do it to myself all the time.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, anyone who's trying to run at at any level, it it happens.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that ice cream, man.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: That ice cream.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: It'll get you, it'll catch up, you know, just a couple couple a week and there goes your progress.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sean, when did you feel like your normal self again?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: The first time I got sick, I recovered pretty well.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I it was just nervous systems.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: So once I could move again and do all the things, I was I was back.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the end of eighth grade going into my freshman year of high school.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I honestly did feel normal because I was playing football again, and that was what I love to do.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was with my friends all summer, did the whole summer football, everything.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then the day of our scrimmage, which is the week before week one, it was our preseason game, that's when I got pulled off the field because my labs came back in a very, very scary way, and I got pulled off the field and I had to go straight to the hospital.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that was pretty much the end of that story.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: That was my whole freshman year was gone.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't live at home.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I moved out to DC for treatment and um I had to come back.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, after that, I would say it it took a couple years because I did with this second one feel a bit different about it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was a lot more isolated, I had no immune system, so I was wearing the mask, I was in quarantine.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I it was a whole I didn't feel like a normal like member of society, honestly.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was like not doing any normal things, I wasn't allowed to see a bunch of people.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was tough to get back, but I I would say after a couple years, once I was able to go to school, I I went to school my sophomore year, so I missed just one full year.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: But after but after I was back there and I kind of slowly started to get over the in my own head about everyone thinking differently of me because I got sick, once I and that's likely still in play to this day.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm I'm out of this for 10 years now, but I'm sure it plays a factor in you know my interactions and the way I think people look at me.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I've gotten more comfortable telling the story and more comfortable, and I I think that's been a big help in uh as much as I'm doing it for other people to try to help inspire them, it's it's almost helping me just as much when I'm like, okay, well, this is me, like this is what happened to me.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now you know, so now like there's nothing for you to find out.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is just it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is what happened.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but yeah, I think it it does help when I'm able to tell the story.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I get that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: When did you choose endurance sports?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: You played sports and then recovered and straight to endurance.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it wasn't straight to endurance.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I had uh I had a three-year maybe four year gym bro phase of just no cardio, just like 15 minutes of Stairmaster, maybe at the end, like twice a week for cardio.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was the full extent.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I would never run for any sort of pleasure and for for any reason.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um just squat bench deadlifts, curls, you know, that was the workout routine.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was just I was going to college, I was trying to get jacked, and yeah, you know, I was kind of the phase I was in at that time.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I I did that whole thing, and then my senior year of college, I was not in good shape.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I had the the build, I I'd been lifting seriously for five years at that point.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I had all the strength and all those things, but I didn't feel super fit.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I struggled to, I I could have maybe run one mile or two, but it was not like I was not cardiovascularly fit in any way.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that bothered me a lot.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't know if there was a moment or if this happened over time, but I knew that I had to fix that.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I started running with one of my buddies, and we would just go on.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: We I went to school in Malibu, so we had this road that went straight down to the beach from his house, so we just start there.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: We'd do 5 a.m.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: sessions and we'd just go out for one quick run.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was a maybe four miles, and we just try to go a little faster than last time.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't anything serious, but kind of got me going in that, and it became a little bit fun.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then after I graduated college, I moved out to Korea for a year to take I took a gap year and I was teaching English out there.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a um this like track right outside of my house, and not a track, but it was parallel to a river, it was more of a a river path that was just endless through the whole city, and it was super cool.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to go see the city, and I I didn't have a car or anything.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I would just take the subway around.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: But when I I would run and I would just go see stuff, and I just thought it was cool, and I was like, Well, if I run, I could see more stuff, I can go further, and you know, so it started I started the build up to that, and I also didn't have any friends, and this was like right before run clubs.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, run clubs have been around, but now run clubs are like a huge thing.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this was like maybe a year before that, and I found a run club online, and it was an international run club, it's called Soul Flyers, and it had a bunch of the the level of English was not so good and just day-to-day, but an international group that liked to run, I was like, okay, I'll go to that and see if I can meet some people.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I went there and I made a couple friends, and there was a marathon, the soul marathon was coming up, and it was maybe eight weeks out, and I was like, Yeah, I could run that for sure.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I could run a marathon.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I signed up for that, and it was seriously the wor the worst day ever.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the the marathon just could not have gone worse.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was unprepared.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I had done, I think, of maybe a 13 mile, I might have done a half before, but I did not run more than 15 miles before.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had no structured interval training, I had no nutrition plan, I had a Time X watch.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I had nothing of no plan for how I was going to execute.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was just, I mean, it's a a story a lot of runners have, you know, you just kind of throw yourself into the first one and then you see what happens.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I ran and I ran a 356, which I was pretty happy about.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to run sub-4, it was just some arbitrary goal I decided on before the race.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And 356 with a lot of walking at the end, I was doing the biofreeze on my knees, I was doing the whole thing of just doing it wrong.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I probably had maybe one gel during that run at all.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was just not planned, right?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't know what I was doing.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, I'll just run the marathon.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: But then after that, I was like, well, first I decided I wasn't gonna run ever again, and then a couple weeks later, I was like, okay, if I actually do this and train and figure it out, like how good can I get at this?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: So then that's kind of when I was like, okay, I'm gonna train and I'm gonna figure out how to run.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I had this whole gym thing and I was kind of over it.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like I had not not maxed out my potential there, but I'd kind of done all the things I wanted to do in the gym.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, it was just no longer exciting for me.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just kind of on to the next thing, and marathons ended up fitting in there.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Man, so your first marathon was is in Korea Seoul?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's so cool.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: November 2022.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's a cool marathon.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh it sucks that it went bad.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it was it was good overall, but I mean just now knowing what I know it went horribly.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time it was it was fine.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: How did Leadville become the dream race in all this?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, okay.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So Leadville is a famous race, right?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's a famous ultra.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: People who don't know about ultra running know about Leadville.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's uh a lot, it's just it has this historic component to it.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a uh it's a hard race, it's hard to get into, it's at altitude, it's it's got all this stuff going for it that is kind of crazy.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was me.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I knew about it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I wasn't an ultrarunner or a trail runner or anything like that, but I love the mountains, I love to hike, and I kind of like to run at that point.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up doing when I came back from Korea, I ran a couple marathons.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I ran Miami, LA, um, Orange County.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I ran a couple, and I was starting to, you know, kind of feel good about it, and it became a part of the routine.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I ran at that point, I was a runner, and um make a wish is a I I'm very passionate about make a wish and what they do.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was a wish kid, I had my wish granted by them, and I just am fired up on that organization.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: They there is another organization called First Ascents that is a similar to Make a Wish.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: They deal with people with critical illnesses, just young adults, so it's a bit different of a profile.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Young adults, and they basically put on these super cool outdoor activities for them.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they're doing you know, kayaking or rock climbing or trail running trip, and they put on trips for these young adults that are sick, which helps with recovery.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: It does it just when you're out there and you're with other people and you have a community, you're outside, you're moving, you're living a normal life.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a big part of what make-a-wish with the why it works is you start to do normal stuff.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I went to the Bahamas with my family, I hadn't traveled in years because I wasn't allowed to.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then you go do normal stuff like a family, and you just you feel better, you feel good, which helps with recovery.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there's first descent, and they're a partner of Leadville.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I found them and I reached out and I was like, Hey, I saw you guys are a partner of Leadville.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's the story here?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you guys do with them?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the person emailed me back and they're like, Hey, our team is full, but you know, this is what we do.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Alright, like that's fine.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like two days later, I was like, Let me just tell let me just email this guy one more time.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I emailed him again and I was like, Hey, this is my story, and this is why I think you should like let me run with you.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he liked the story, and I ended up being able to run with their team.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I got in through the fundraising aspect of it in December of 2024, so right before New Year's, he emailed me and he's like, Hey, you're we're happy to have you run with us, you just have to sign this in 72 hours, like send back the thing, the fundraising agreement, and all that.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And when he sent it, it was pretty scary because I didn't really understand what I was even asking for before I asked for it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of saying, like, hey, like, what's the deal here?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then I asked to run it, and I never really thought actually about what I was about to do.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, oh no.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: He like that he said yes.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like almost like almost bummed out that he said yes, that I could do it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was like, well, now I have to run.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and Leadville's it's really it's hard to get into.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like the lottery, it's really hard.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's just one of those ones where you don't get the opportunity to do it all the time, and it's it's pretty tough.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought about it for you know the entirety of that time and just decided that if there's any time, it's now.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was 25 and I was feeling good about my running, and just thought it'd be a good time to go ahead and try it.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I it just ended up being the one that I started with, and you know, that was my first ultra uh just kind of dove into trail running now.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I love trail running.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, trail running is is you know, it's definitely my calling as far as the running.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's I just enjoy it way more.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, really for every reason.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel better out there.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love hiking in the mountains, and that's a whole thing, and it's it's closer to that than the the high performance interval splits.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of it's more of a grind, especially those long ones.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a long, it just it sucks for so long and it's just hard.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's I love that.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what what it is about it, but I I love to be in that situation where you know that it's gonna be a long day and you're gonna be out there and it's gonna be hard, but you know, the the willpower is what's gonna get you through it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's kind of why ultra running has has pulled me that way.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: You think you love it now just because all you went through and you're just like nah I gotta keep testing myself and do hard things?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a big part of it.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that that the the sickness the sicknesses are undoubtedly a big part of why I enjoy what I do.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I am completely different.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I would be like had I not gone through those things, and I'm really grateful I I did because now I you know I am very appreciative of all this stuff and I'm excited about it and I'm disciplined with it, and I I really just enjoy the whole part of it, and I it's it's definitely a huge factor.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I don't know what I'd be doing otherwise.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm glad I found this this sport.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: How'd that first level go?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how'd it go for you that first time?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was definitely the hardest the hardest thing I ever chose to do.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you have you know, you have hard things in life that are truly hard, right?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you get sick, you lose a loved one, you have things that are legitimately hard, like hard to go through.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have the chosen, you know, chosen and unchosen suffering.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So chosen suffering-wise, this was by far the hardest thing I've ever done.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Not close.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I it's there are so many chances and opportunities to quit during that race.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it there are you have a day and a half to quit.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have the whole time to to decide to quit the race, which it's like that in Everest.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I found myself thinking this way in even in marathons where you know there's a lot of chances where you know you're like, as soon, I'm gonna take the next step and I'm just gonna stop because this is so hard.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that just dragged out over such a long period of time, and it's a totally different sport.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're sleep deprived.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I finished in 28 hours and 50 minutes, so it was you know a a day and and and change, and it's really hard the whole time.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think something that people get wrong about ultras is that they think that like because they take the percentage, they're like, oh, you hit the wall at like mile 75 in an ultra.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, I was tired at like mile 10.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I ran 10 miles, like it's still 10 miles, it's still hard, like and yeah, plus terrain and all that, yeah.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and you have everything.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you hit the wall at mile 20 of a marathon, and obviously it's different intensities, you know, you're going a different different pace and you're you're more spread out.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the the same, it's the same idea, and it's more it's just more time.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, at mile 12, the first aid station, I was tired.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I ran 12 miles.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's for any runner, that's not an easy run.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, you get better at running, but 12 miles is 12 miles, like it's it's still hard.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't change at all.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just gets like more and more and more.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um the I will say the difference in the road races that I found is that the pain was definitely not linear in the ultra.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had some of my my best moments in between 85 and 100, some of my fastest splits.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: You have so much time that you kind of recover in a way.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you hike a couple miles and you start running again.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like in a marathon, I feel like it's hard and hard and hard and hard, and you know, it's just brutal.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in an ultra, I feel like you have enough time to kind of you have these these flows and you know peaks and valleys going through the whole thing where you're able to have it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because I felt great.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, mile, I think 92 was one of my fastest miles of the whole race.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then you know, you slow down and you're just it's it's a crazy experience.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not like anything I've ever done.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: But um kind of same story with my first marathon is right when I was finished, I was like, what did I like?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I do that?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm never doing this again.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, you're on the flight home, you're trying to see how to get in next year, you know.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just like you're ready to do it again.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's just such a crazy experience.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I've I feel like I'll I'll just keep doing it.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I've no plans of stopping.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Talking about hard challenges, uh, I think you described Tokyo marathon as a hard one.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think you mentioned because you cut you cared a lot, like you wanted that sub-three goal.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what happened to Tokyo and will you go back?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: No plans to return at the moment, but you never know.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think you know, people say they have unfinished business at certain races.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think not at Tokyo specifically, but I do feel like deep down I have an un I've unfinished business with the marathon in general.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I ran a 308 in Tokyo, and I want that sub I want to see the two on the clock so bad.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I it may be in me, it may not, but it's something that I even if I say I'm never gonna do it again, there's just no I I know myself.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's I'm I'm gonna go for it again.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so Tokyo was my probably like my eighth or ninth race marathon, and I had PR'd in every marathon before that.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: So went from 356 to 319 was my fastest before that.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: So every race I cut off like six to eight minutes or so.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I sat in the 330 range just a couple minutes faster each race, and then Chicago I ran a 319, and that was in October of 25, and then March was Tokyo.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I was feeling pretty good once I got into Tokyo.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was another one of those things kind of like Leadville where I didn't think I was gonna get in because it was a lottery, and Tokyo is one of the harder ones to get into, and I got in and my dad got in, and uh we're like, well, we're going.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we both got into the race, we have to go do this.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of a no-brainer once we got in, and and he's an animal.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: He ran a 321 and he's he's 51, so he he's close to boss, he's close to the BQ for his age group, which is exciting.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's running, he's 11 days out from one in San Diego, and he's gonna shoot for it.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll we'll see how that goes.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: But no way, which one in San Diego?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Rock and roll.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I have a friend doing that.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's a tough race.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a I'm I'm hopeful for him, but it's uh it's got over a thousand feet of vert, so it's it's a not a fast course.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Tokyo has 140, so compared to that, it's it's flat, and Chicago is like 180, so those are you know completely flat courses, but yeah, Tokyo was uh it was a tough day for me.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um outside of Leadville, that was the hardest run I've ever done.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I experienced in Tokyo something I hadn't in other races.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of I was very proud that I would always negative split a race.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like any distance, I am sprinting through the finish line.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: I am like and I was pretty smooth with that, you know, through all my other races.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to, you know, keep composure until mile 18 and then kind of turn it on and just negative split.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was always my strategy.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: But to run sub three, which was you know, would have been a 20-minute PR.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I oh, I didn't really have that luxury of banking time at the beginning.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of wanted to go 651, 651, you know, just even pace the entire time, and then try to cut off 10 seconds at the end with just a sprint and and break the three-hour barrier.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it started off okay.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was alright.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: We the the race is so packed, you kind of get caught in.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: So my first mile was a little bit slower, but I wasn't really far behind, and I was pretty close.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And through 18, I was on pace for three.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like at the three, I had the marathon predictor on my watch, and it was like 301.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: I ran like a one like a 130 and 32nd half.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like right there on running the sub-three, and I ran a half in January and around a 124.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I was I was hopeful that I was like kind of on that edge of like, is this possible to to keep on?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's kind of the guidance of like if you can break 125, maybe you can get the three.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: So uh through mile 18, I was on pace, and I never really conceptually and maybe in some workouts, like what the wall was, but I never hit it until Tokyo.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I never really knew what that meant of the wall when everyone talks about it.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I know what it means, and you know, you it's but it was like nothing I had run.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I you know, I've I've run at that point seven or eight marathons, so I I thought I was had a pretty good idea of what I was gonna feel like at that time.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I had no idea like what that was like, and it was I I kept looking at my watch and I I was pushing, I was you know, at a nine out of ten effort, and my pace just going down and down.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: My effort was getting higher and higher and higher, and my pace every time I looked, it was like now you're at a seven-minute pace, now you're 7'10, and I feel like I'm moving 650 the whole time, and I just I couldn't go further, I couldn't go faster, and my fueling was on point.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was I had I'm still dealing with this hip thing, but it wasn't a factor, like it honestly didn't hurt during the race at all.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was not a it was not a factor in my race.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: My fueling was fine.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't think jet lag was an issue.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: The race started at 9 a.m., which was kind of weird.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they always start at 6, or generally they're pretty early starts.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: The 9 a.m.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: thing was kind of weird.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the sun was out, but all this was nothing I wasn't used to.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I run in those conditions at that time all the time, you know.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: None of it, I don't it it was the first time that I truly feel like I just wasn't fit enough to do it.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just didn't have it.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that sucks to like say, but I looked at all the different things and I was like, I just I it wasn't in wasn't in the bag that day.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to walk in a in the race, which since my first one I had never had to do.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um I walked for 10 seconds every mile from 20 through the finish.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right when I hit the mile mark, I was just like, I need to walk for 10 seconds and just like to get through this, I have to.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was just my chest was tight, my lit, everything just like there was no moving me.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: And once I yeah, I I struggled for sure.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the the the sub three I I want.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: So at some point, some three sub three redemption.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's the goal.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'll get back out on the road, but uh the trails might be it for me.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I I I think three, I I gotta try at least one more time.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Man, you've been through uh bigger things than missing uh a time goal, but it sounds like these races still hurt.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it doesn't change that.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: It still means a lot, you know.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to perform and you know I I hold myself to a high standard with with all this stuff and I wanna I want to be good at it, and you know, it's I I think it's good.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's good and bad.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I think I do a good job after the fact of regrounding myself and just being appreciative that I was out there at all, because like if you told me 10 years ago I was running at all, like in any pace in anywhere, I would be ecstatic.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so to be butthurt about running eight minutes slower than my marathon pace in Tokyo, I'm like, alright, like I'm I'm alright.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll be okay.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll get through this one.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it it takes but I do have that you know that competitive nature where I'm immediately after, I'm like, dang, I I should have done this different.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And even after Leadville, I mean I was like, I could have run sub-25, like I could have done it, but you know, it's uh you can always get faster, and there's always someone faster than you.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I I try to not make that wild out there.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: Touching on uh you said something about like 10 years ago versus now, what is movement in general and to be able to do this run level, run Tokyo, eight marathons mean to you now?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a blessing.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Movement is a blessing.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I say it all the time.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell people any amount of movement that you can do, you should be doing it.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you are young and healthy, you should be moving all the time.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything you can do, you should be doing it.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it can be taken away from you in a day or a second, you know.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: It that there's no guarantee that you'll be able to do any of this stuff.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's people just take it for granted.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: They have these, you know, these young, healthy bodies that they just don't capitalize on, they're not you know, moving.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it does so much more than just the the fitness piece.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the fitness piece is a huge part, you just feel better, but you're able to have the community, you're able to talk to people and meet people who are doing stuff.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Generally, the people who are hammering marathons are doing a bunch of other cool stuff too.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're good at their job, they have friends, they're you know, there's a lot that comes with this community of people.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: They they work hard, you know.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good group to be in, it's a good room to be in with these type of people.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it uh has uh it's only been good to me, you know, it's uh since I've I've started.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it it means a lot.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean uh I I'm very passionate.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's my passion is to move in whatever way for sure.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sean, having gone through a lot, what in your opinion and thoughts, what makes a strong person?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because obviously you you you want a strong dude, man.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think uh being strong is being able to be consistent through circumstances.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're you know, I I was strong when I was sick too, right?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't move, I couldn't run.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Being strong is not your marathon time or your deadlift, you know, that's not what strength is, but if you can have the consistency and the mindset of getting better all the time, and whatever that looks like, it doesn't have to always be a crazy grind.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is a balance to it where you know people like us that are trying to do these really hard runs and stuff, you can you can go too far, you can, you know, and and that's not necessarily strength.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for me at this point, it's hard it takes more strength to chill and to not work out more than than it does to to get out there because I have no problem getting out there.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll go do the workout, like I'll I'll do whatever workout it is.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um but the strength and the discipline to to hold back and to just be consistent through you know all parts of my life, and I think there's a lot of uh overlap in the way you are, you know, the way you do one thing is the way you do everything.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you're going to level again.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's uh the difference this time and uh how are you training was different from the last time you did it?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited this time.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think that knowing what I'm getting into now will make this harder.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh being naive and blind to what was about to happen to me, I think did me favors the first time.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was just keep going and you know, I'll I'll get there eventually.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing what it takes now that I've done it is hard to know.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's obviously an advantage to having done a race before and you know what you're getting into, but it in another on the other side, it it is very difficult to know what you're about to experience and know how hard it's gonna be.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you try to go PR a marathon, it's the same thing.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you have a 325 PR and you want to run 320, you know that's gonna be a hard day.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, before that, you just don't really know.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: You just push and you just go for it.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm really excited this year.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: There is definitely less pressure than.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm putting on it the first time, you know.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I there's a ton.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I fundraised, so I had all these, you know, all these donations, all these people that I asked for money.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, oh, I have to finish.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um now there's a bit different type of pressure.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: I still have the same, there's always pressure on myself.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm that's not gonna go away.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I have that, that's consistent.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now I I feel like it's a little bit different.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a lot more comfortable with where I am, and I'm a lot more confident in my my running.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um it's it's good to know that I've done it before, so there's no reason why I cannot do it again.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's there's no excuse for not being able to do it again.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do have a time goal.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like to set time goals for this this type of stuff because you know you want to get out there and you want to just you want to just have your your day, and anything can go wrong in any race.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: If your race is 30 hours, something's gonna go wrong.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of stuff's probably gonna go wrong.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the time goals I try to stay away from as much as I can, try to have a general time goal.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: 25 is kind of the time in my head.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's the big they have the belt buckles, so you get the big buckle if you run sub-25.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I ran 2850 last year.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think I left a lot of time there.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just I I mean I ran conservatively.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I knew I just wanted to finish in sub-30.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there are a lot of times where I could have been pushing harder, and this year I think I'll be able to do so.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'll be going in healthy.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be my my training will hopefully be there.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have a lot more time on the bike, a lot more time in the gym, especially.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I threw the gym away for my first lead bill, which was my biggest mistake for sure.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I ended up hurt because of it.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's just I I stopped doing it.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't understand how important it was.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, now I'm gonna I mean I'll I'll cut volume to lift for sure now.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I have no problem doing that.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: I like it, it's just has to be done.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be healthy to get there.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if I don't do the other stuff, then you know there's no point in trying to run.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: I peaked at 110 mile week last year, and I I don't know.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was I don't think it was necessary.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was a bit much for my the base I had.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I was looking at all these like I was using David Roche's training plan, who has the course record of Leadville, and what business that I have doing that.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, none.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not David Roche, I'm I'm not him, but you know, he's a professional runner, he's got the course record by like hours at that course, and like it's just he he can do his thing, and I I I gotta figure out something else to do and and stop looking so much at other stuff, just figure out what works.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm new to the ultras to the sport, so I I feel like I'll uh I'll only get better from here, you know, and being able to have more experience and being out there and knowing what you're gonna feel like.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, I mean I'm I'm so excited.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was one of the best days of my life, Leadville last year.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was the hard just finishing something that's that hard is there's no way to describe that feeling.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sean, doing ultras now, a few marathons, recovering and surviving what you survive.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what scares you nowadays, if anything.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think at this point what scares me, and I'm thinking about my Instagram page right now, and now there are more people seeing my story and and listening to me, which is it's not much, but it's a lot more than it was before, before I was posting anything.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I think it's a bit scary to um not stay true to who I am in all of that, because there are it's very easy to do, and I've I've already found myself honestly doing it in the first because you want to fit into these boxes and you wanna tell the right story, you want to tell the good story, you know.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: You want to I want to run sub three.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: A huge reason why I wanted to run sub three was so I could make an Instagram post about it when I got home.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was genuinely a a big factor in why I wanted to do it because I said I was gonna do it and I told all these people I was gonna do it, and then I didn't do it, and that's why I felt like I was failing in that when it wasn't a failure at all.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that wasn't when I step back and I think about like I don't really care about sub three, like I I do, like I want to do it, but like at the end of the day, like I it's that's not why I'm there.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not I'm there because you still be happy, yeah.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like it's it's a blessing to move, it's a blessing to get out there.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: If I if I DNF Leadville, like yes, it sucks, and it's so hard, and I have to go face all these people and tell them I failed, and I have to face myself and say I failed, but that's not really what I think.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when I when I really sit down and think about it, that is not the way I'm looking at these races.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just being at the start line or being there at all is that's the win.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the win for me.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wasn't able to do any of this stuff, and now I can.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: So just being there and getting all the training in and all the other things that you get from it, I mean, that's the win.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't want to lose sight of this stuff as I progress into the into the whole world of running and and you know, try to get good at it and meet more people.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure that I am staying completely authentic to who I am and and using the story for good and you know sharing what I actually think.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because I I'm if you want to know the best workout to you know run a sub-3 marathon, I'm not the right guy to ask.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I don't know.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like I that's not the value I'm trying to bring here.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not, and even with ultra running tips, I mean I I ultra run, but I'm I'm not winning.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not winning Leadville.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna catch up to David Roche at any point, like it's it's not gonna happen.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I do have a certain outlook on these things that I think is pretty unique, which that's what I'm trying to bring, is just making people think like, yes, do all the workouts, do all the hard stuff, push yourself, be disciplined, and if you don't hit it, like it's okay.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you are so lucky to be where you are and even trying to do it.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's like what I want to keep doing and and make everyone know that because there are so many people that I see, like uh, I don't know if you saw the BPN, the Backyard Ultra.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I remembered his name, but the guy who was in the wheelchair, and uh yeah, I mean, that was like I think that was so good for the sport, and it's a crazy story, but like it's so good because so many people had eyes on that, yeah, and they're like, dang, like that guy's out there like getting after it.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's literally in the mud, like trying to push his chair through this.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: How lucky am I?
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's it's crazy.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think being more like, and I'm not comparing our stories, but being more on that side of it, like you know, making people appreciative and pushing yourself no matter what your circumstances are.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really what I want to try to do, rather than like the performance side of it, because that's not that's not where I shine.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: I get that, I love that, man.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and for what it's worth, you're doing great in my opinion.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sean, thank you, man.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you being on the the podcast here and chatting up with me for those listening.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: This has been the People Run podcast.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: Catch you on the next one.