Latest / Brian Thomas / Todd Zinser - Citizen Watchdog

Transcript

Todd Zinser - Citizen Watchdog · Brian Thomas

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Speaker 1: Ato Mine the fifty five Garrise De Talk Station, A
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Speaker 1: very happy Friday to everybody. Brian Thomas right here hosts
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Speaker 1: the fifty five Caarasee Morning Show, reminding you fifty five
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Speaker 1: Karasee dot com get podcasts and please download that. iHeartMedia,
0:12
Speaker 1: get all your content whatever you happen to be at
0:15
Speaker 1: any time. And it is so nice to look up
0:18
Speaker 1: and see Todd Zenzer in studio. Citizen Watchdog is the
0:21
Speaker 1: name of his podcast, produced by Joe Strecker. He's always
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Speaker 1: following what I will just boil down to call shenanigans
0:27
Speaker 1: in the city of Cincinnati. He looks for records, he
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Speaker 1: follows the money, He asks for documents that are supposed
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Speaker 1: to exist. He finds out that, well, we don't have
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Speaker 1: a very transparent administration in spite of the fact I
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Speaker 1: believe have to have prowoll Ran on transparency. We will
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Speaker 1: get to a con and a point on that later
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Speaker 1: in the program. Todd Zenzer, it is a pleasure to
0:45
Speaker 1: have you back in former Inspector General for the United
0:47
Speaker 1: States of America. Good to see you. Thank you, Brian,
0:49
Speaker 1: and thank you so much. And I sang your praises
0:51
Speaker 1: this morning. I don't think the city of Cincinnati knows
0:53
Speaker 1: how blessed they are to have you and your understanding
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Speaker 1: of how things work behind the scenes, coupled with in retirement,
1:02
Speaker 1: your willingness to go after and look for all these
1:04
Speaker 1: things and do all this leg work, and have you
1:07
Speaker 1: lifting to get the answers that you're looking for for
1:11
Speaker 1: the residents of the city, Like, what the hell are
1:13
Speaker 1: tax payer dollars being used for?
1:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's what people want. My view is
1:18
Speaker 2: if people don't mind paying taxes as long as the
1:21
Speaker 2: taxes that they're paying are being used properly and for
1:24
Speaker 2: things that are needed to be done, right.
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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in the private industry world, we
1:30
Speaker 1: get to pick and choose who is going to be
1:32
Speaker 1: the recipient of our hard earned dollars. We don't get
1:35
Speaker 1: any choice in the matter. At minimum, these people should
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Speaker 1: have some measure of understanding or some concept of a
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Speaker 1: fiduciary obligation that it owes to you, me and everybody
1:45
Speaker 1: else who works and pays taxes to keep them well,
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Speaker 1: keep them in their salaries and all these other programs
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Speaker 1: that we fund.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. And actually that's one of the
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Speaker 2: big issues I have with the way that iris Rollie
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Speaker 2: was contracted with and the way they manage that contract.
2:01
Speaker 2: I have to believe that the contracting staff and the
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Speaker 2: management staff at the city are better than that. Did
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Speaker 2: they They let they let a very lax process go
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Speaker 2: through and you know, make all these payments to this contractor,
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Speaker 2: and the paperwork is terrible.
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Speaker 1: Terrible, And if you're scratching your head going, wait, huh,
2:22
Speaker 1: who iris Roli is? Well, it was involved with the
2:26
Speaker 1: establishment of the Collaborative Agreement after the riots back in
2:29
Speaker 1: what was it two thousand and one? Yes, long time ago.
2:32
Speaker 1: She has been a constant presence in activism, if I
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Speaker 1: can boil it down in the city since that time.
2:40
Speaker 1: She has been under contract. She's like a a ten
2:45
Speaker 1: ninety nine employee of sorts, right, I mean she does
2:47
Speaker 1: she doesn't have a direct job with or for the city.
2:50
Speaker 1: She's not a city employee. She's a subcontract the city,
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Speaker 1: like an NGO that we're paying to do work in
2:55
Speaker 1: the community.
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Speaker 2: Correct.
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Speaker 1: So her current role is is what what she's getting fed?
3:00
Speaker 1: I fought how many what's the terms of her contract?
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Speaker 1: How many years? And how much money is she gonna
3:03
Speaker 1: to make it?
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Speaker 2: Well, the current contract is a is a three year
3:06
Speaker 2: contract that was signed off in two thousand and twenty four,
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Speaker 2: and that was an amendment to a twenty and twenty
3:16
Speaker 2: three contract. But the current contract is for three years,
3:23
Speaker 2: and that includes a salary for miss Rowley that is
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Speaker 2: over three hundred thousand dollars. And then the contract also
3:35
Speaker 2: includes money for a initiative on Government Square. They call
3:40
Speaker 2: it the Government Square Initiative, and that's another I believe
3:46
Speaker 2: it's two hundred and twenty five thousand. The math on
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Speaker 2: it that I calculated was the value of the contract
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Speaker 2: was five hundred and seventy thousand dollars.
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Speaker 1: Right, is there a job description in there, like you normally,
4:01
Speaker 1: here's what you're expected to do? And also is she
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Speaker 1: paid an hourly rate? Is how does she charge the city?
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Speaker 1: Because we're going to talk about some of the bills
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Speaker 1: that she submitted to the City Cincinnati invoices. So what
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Speaker 1: within the contract explains how these invoice processes work, how
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Speaker 1: much she's supposed to get, what her day to day
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Speaker 1: responsibilities are. I mean, are we getting an eight hour
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Speaker 1: work day in return for all of this money? That
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Speaker 1: kind of thing?
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Speaker 2: The basic conditions, Yeah, well, a lot of that I
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Speaker 2: can't answer, but the scope of services in the contract,
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Speaker 2: there were three basic scope of services. One was to
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Speaker 2: kind of refresh the what's called the management Advisory Group,
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Speaker 2: which was established under the Collaborative Agreement and which iris
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Speaker 2: Rolli was a member of that management group, and I
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Speaker 2: believe she either is still a member or is responsible
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Speaker 2: for kind of managing that group under this contract. The
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Speaker 2: second one is to engage the community one way or
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Speaker 2: the other. Uh, it's not very specific, but there's community
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Speaker 2: engagement that that she's required to to to engage.
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Speaker 1: And you and I could go all day long on
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Speaker 1: what in the hell that means? Right, community engagement.
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Speaker 2: Well, it's spelled it is spelled out a little more
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Speaker 2: in the contract itself, but when you look at the invoices,
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Speaker 2: it gets much broader.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're we're going to get to that, folks. Just
5:28
Speaker 1: wait wait for that bomb. That's the bomb that's going
5:30
Speaker 1: to drop in.
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Speaker 2: And then there's a there's an aspect of the collaborative
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Speaker 2: Agreement called problem The big thing about the Collaborative Agreement
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Speaker 2: is this problem solving community problem solving, and they use
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Speaker 2: a technique called SARAH, which stands for scanning assessment or scanning, analysis, response,
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Speaker 2: and assessment. So and she will she'll train groups on
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Speaker 2: how that works. You know what can be accomplished with
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Speaker 2: that method. And those are the three big ticket items
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Speaker 2: in the in the contract.
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Speaker 1: As to the latter, since the collaborative agreement dealt with
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Speaker 1: policing in the city, this scanning and reviewing or whatever
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Speaker 1: this protocol is that it relates to individual police interactions
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Speaker 1: with the community, arrests and issuance of citations and things
6:29
Speaker 1: like that, or does it go outside of police activity.
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Speaker 2: Oh, it definitely goes outside of police activity. It's it's
6:35
Speaker 2: to identify problems in the neighborhood or in the community.
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Speaker 1: Like the breakdown of the nuclear family for example.
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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it goes to that point,
6:43
Speaker 2: but I'm sorry, I go there, and you know, how
6:47
Speaker 2: do we how do we deal with this problem that?
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Speaker 2: And so the police are involved the community. It's supposed
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Speaker 2: to be kind of a collaborative of effort.
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Speaker 1: Okay, But at its core, does it relate to crime,
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Speaker 1: like getting ahead of things that cause or create problems
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Speaker 1: that result in criminal activity? I guess I'm I think
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Speaker 1: a collaborative agreement. What started it? The riots, the accusations
7:10
Speaker 1: of racism, the accusations of pulling over people are for
7:13
Speaker 1: driving while black. I mean, we know all the genesis
7:15
Speaker 1: behind it, but it had to do with law enforcement.
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Speaker 1: It sounds to me like she's been hired in a
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Speaker 1: role that's much broader than her initial involvement.
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Speaker 2: If you look at her invoices, they answer that, yes,
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Speaker 2: it's much much broader than what it looks like in
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Speaker 2: the contract.
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Speaker 1: But here we go. Can we tell from the invoice
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Speaker 1: is exactly what she's doing out in the world on
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Speaker 1: a day to day basis?
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Speaker 2: I would say, no.
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Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk just you got a whole bunch of them.
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Speaker 1: You looked into this. Yeah, and she submits a monthly
7:44
Speaker 1: invoice correct, correct, and to best of your knowledge, it's
7:46
Speaker 1: all been paid correct.
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Speaker 2: Yes, So.
7:51
Speaker 1: What what are we talking about here? I mentioned you
7:56
Speaker 1: when I was an attorney billing hours, you had a
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Speaker 1: certain oblig to put enough information on your billing form
8:03
Speaker 1: to justify the hourly charge you were going to do.
8:05
Speaker 1: Like I reviewed documents, you know X through Y, you
8:08
Speaker 1: know tax years nineteen eighty to nineteen eighty five. You
8:10
Speaker 1: had to put a sufficient explanation of what you did
8:12
Speaker 1: to justify the bill you're sett into the client. Does
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Speaker 1: her invoice show any of that kind of detailed information.
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Speaker 2: Well, the contract requires a detailed timekeeping and an activity log,
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Speaker 2: so the invoices don't reflect any time keeping. The invoices
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Speaker 2: identify maybe seven or eight different areas or things that
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Speaker 2: she devoted time to, there's no details to it, and
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Speaker 2: there's no time associated with any of those activities. And
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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, for example, there are five invoices,
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Speaker 2: five monthly invoices that say the exact same thing. And
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Speaker 2: so without those kinds of activity logs, you don't know
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Speaker 2: whether those five things are duplicates, or whether there's different
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Speaker 2: activities under each of those categories. There's just nothing there
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Speaker 2: to really determine what she worked on.
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Speaker 1: Well, you indicated also your research determined that five of
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Speaker 1: the seven invoices also had identical misspellings, meaning the only
9:29
Speaker 1: thing that's different between them is maybe the date that
9:31
Speaker 1: it was sent out.
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Speaker 2: Yes, that's the only difference. And you know the real
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Speaker 2: problem is that there's no information underneath each item, each
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Speaker 2: of those seven items on these invoices to say how
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Speaker 2: this month is different than last month. Because if you
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Speaker 2: can't differentiate between the activities on each of the invoices.
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Speaker 2: It looks like you're paying for the same thing five times.
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Speaker 1: Well that's the appearance. So that's what I came away
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Speaker 1: with after I was looking at your analysis on this.
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Speaker 2: Right and see I had to be. I waited to
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Speaker 2: disclose all these invoices because I was hopeful that the
10:12
Speaker 2: city would come through with some additional documentation and some
10:16
Speaker 2: additional information to give us a better picture of it.
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Speaker 2: But it's been over a month since I had since
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Speaker 2: I had received the initial a batch of documents, and
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Speaker 2: I don't know how long I'm supposed to wait before
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Speaker 2: I report out on this stuff. So I just reported out.
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Speaker 1: Right, which means if they have additional documents that fill
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Speaker 1: in the missing information back behind the scenes, they can say, oh,
10:38
Speaker 1: todds In's or you jump to conclusions. Here's all the
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Speaker 1: details supporting the monthly bill, which contains literally no information
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Speaker 1: we can use. Yeah, well, you don't expect that day
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Speaker 1: to come.
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Speaker 2: I unfortunately I don't, but I would be happy to
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Speaker 2: take that information and revise what you know my conclusions here.
10:53
Speaker 1: I know you will. We have much many more shenanigans
10:57
Speaker 1: to reveal here with Todd Sen's or Citizen Watchdog in
10:59
Speaker 1: the fifty five CAREC Morning Show. He'll be in studio
11:01
Speaker 1: for the full hour. Please do not go away. Fifty
11:04
Speaker 1: five KARC dot com lead station. They take twenty here
11:08
Speaker 1: fiftybout car City Talk Station. Citizen Watchdogs the name of
11:12
Speaker 1: the podcast. Todd zenz Er, host of that podcast and
11:15
Speaker 1: the one that's doing all the work to gather the
11:16
Speaker 1: information that he talks about with the Citizen Watchdog podcasts
11:19
Speaker 1: and our podcasts and also talking about here in the
11:21
Speaker 1: fifty five krsee Morning Shoe and Studio Today. Now, Todd
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Speaker 1: going back to this IRISROLLI contract paid a handsome amount
11:29
Speaker 1: of money to be a some sort of outside contractor fine.
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Speaker 1: The contract requires detailed timekeeping. That's in quotes from the contract, yes,
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Speaker 1: as well as in quotes activity logs. So when you
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Speaker 1: submit an invoice under this contract, you must have detailed
11:48
Speaker 1: timekeeping where you were, how much time you spent, what
11:50
Speaker 1: you did, as well as the activity logs. You say
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Speaker 1: there are no activity logs. No, there's not, clearly from
11:56
Speaker 1: what you told me, like for example, quote police chief
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Speaker 1: sir close. Quote does not sound like detailed timekeeping either. No,
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Speaker 1: no hours specified for example, correct just detailed timekeeping. What
12:10
Speaker 1: was the invoice? I mean, what are these invoices run
12:12
Speaker 1: like four or five, six or six thousand dollars?
12:14
Speaker 2: Or the monthly payment that she received initially was eight thousand,
12:19
Speaker 2: three hundred and something, and then this contract what the invoices?
12:23
Speaker 2: Monthly invoices are eighty seven fifty.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Now I don't believe and I've never heard it
12:30
Speaker 1: said that Iris Rowley has the City of Cincinnati's checkbook
12:35
Speaker 1: so she can write herself checks. Someone has to approve
12:39
Speaker 1: and authorize these payments. She submits the invoice. See I'm
12:43
Speaker 1: going real slow, and I'm mansplaining. I see, I'm recognizing it.
12:48
Speaker 1: Who signed off on these? Considering it does not meet
12:51
Speaker 1: on its face the contractual requirements.
12:54
Speaker 2: Right well, under the contract she reports directly to the
12:57
Speaker 2: city manager or an assistant city manager. And most of
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Speaker 2: the invoices that I've I didn't see any invoices that
13:04
Speaker 2: share a long initial off on. It's usually a assistant
13:09
Speaker 2: manager the best I can tell. But there's only initials.
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Speaker 2: Somebody will initial it or say good to pay or
13:16
Speaker 2: something like that.
13:19
Speaker 1: But if the buck stops at the head of the
13:23
Speaker 1: head of the class's desk, Like the buck stops here,
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Speaker 1: that will be Cheryl Long. This is under her watch.
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Speaker 1: She bears ultimately responsibility for these invoices being paid.
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Speaker 2: Correct, she signed the contract?
13:35
Speaker 1: Well does it one really kind of puzzle over? I
13:39
Speaker 1: know you're puzzling over it. I'm puzzling over it. Have
13:41
Speaker 1: you asked that question of the mayor or anybody else
13:44
Speaker 1: in the administration.
13:47
Speaker 2: Well, I did send them a letter back at the
13:49
Speaker 2: beginning of October, like I don't know, ten days ago,
13:52
Speaker 2: twelve days ago, and I lined out all of my
13:56
Speaker 2: issues with the contracts and I all suggested things that
14:03
Speaker 2: they need to do to fix them. And I haven't
14:07
Speaker 2: heard anything back. But that's not unusual either.
14:11
Speaker 1: Okay, Well my recollection, and I know it's right because
14:15
Speaker 1: you just showed me the quote from have to have
14:17
Speaker 1: Pervoll when he was running for mayor back in twenty
14:20
Speaker 1: twenty one. Didn't he promise and pledge to ferret out
14:25
Speaker 1: corruption and to be transparent? I mean you can feel
14:27
Speaker 1: free to read his own words.
14:29
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, the WKRC interviewed all the candidates running for
14:33
Speaker 2: mayor back in twenty twenty one. I guess it was
14:35
Speaker 2: just a mayor of Pervall and mister David Mann. But
14:39
Speaker 2: they asked him four city council members have been indicted
14:43
Speaker 2: on felony charges, including three for corruption charges, what will
14:46
Speaker 2: you do to restore trust in local government? So part
14:50
Speaker 2: of his response he says, I think we've got to
14:53
Speaker 2: be laser focused on finding the corruption before it starts,
14:58
Speaker 2: and that means more transparency. And then he ended saying,
15:01
Speaker 2: I think we've got to raise the level of our
15:03
Speaker 2: ethical standards, make them more transparent so we can weed
15:08
Speaker 2: this corruption out before it begins.
15:12
Speaker 1: How's that working out for you?
15:16
Speaker 2: Well? I think I mentioned that. A big issue is
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Speaker 2: I did send him a letter earlier in the summer
15:23
Speaker 2: to help get disclosure on what Norfolk Southern spent that
15:26
Speaker 2: six million dollars.
15:27
Speaker 1: Oh, Todd Sensor, Yeah, you're doing great with a tease,
15:32
Speaker 1: because wow, do you have a mom sittle drop about
15:34
Speaker 1: the Norfolk Southern money? And this is folks. It just
15:37
Speaker 1: keeps getting better and better. The hits keep coming. We'll
15:39
Speaker 1: do more with Todd Zinzer on Norfolk Southern Shenanigans. Oh yeah,
15:45
Speaker 1: I think Provol's got a problem on his hands. I
15:47
Speaker 1: just wish it was more widely reported beyond Citizen Watchdog.
15:52
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. It's eight twenty five. This is
15:54
Speaker 1: fifty five KRC and iHeartRadio see talk station. Brian Thomas
15:58
Speaker 1: with former US Inspector General citizen Watchdog for the residence
16:02
Speaker 1: of the City of Cincinnati, trying to ensure that your
16:05
Speaker 1: taxpayer dollars are being well spent, but revealing day in
16:08
Speaker 1: and day out with what he does. Apparently they're not
16:11
Speaker 1: Todd Zenzer. I know we're going to get the Norfolk
16:14
Speaker 1: Southern craziness here in a second. But since we were
16:18
Speaker 1: talking about Irish Rolly, that contract, one of the components
16:20
Speaker 1: of it, as you laid out, I believe it was
16:25
Speaker 1: roughly two hundred or so thousand dollars. Of this north
16:28
Speaker 1: of five hundred thousand dollars contract relates to some program
16:32
Speaker 1: or something at Government Square. Now. Government Square has been
16:35
Speaker 1: making into the news a lot lately, and it's become
16:37
Speaker 1: a hotbed of crime in downtown Cincinnati. That's where the
16:40
Speaker 1: kids hang out, that's where the fights break out, a
16:43
Speaker 1: lot of terrible things, and of course people who are
16:45
Speaker 1: going back and forth from the various businesses. Steve Gooden
16:48
Speaker 1: commented on this. His law firm is real close by,
16:51
Speaker 1: they're afraid, Yeah, what did she do or what it
16:55
Speaker 1: looks like things have gotten worse over the past several years.
16:58
Speaker 1: If this is part of her responsibility, what does she
17:01
Speaker 1: have to show for it, and what's being done right?
17:05
Speaker 2: Well, back in twenty twenty four, I think they that
17:08
Speaker 2: was the first time they initiated this Government Square initiative,
17:14
Speaker 2: which involves in the specific case of Iris Rolly's contract,
17:22
Speaker 2: they have four I think they call them community counselors
17:26
Speaker 2: or community collaborative counselors or something like that. They have
17:31
Speaker 2: those those individuals positioned at Government Square for certain hours
17:36
Speaker 2: when the kids will be a changing buses or whatever
17:40
Speaker 2: it is they do down there.
17:41
Speaker 1: In lieu of a police presidence.
17:43
Speaker 2: Correct, And they they have snacks and drinks that they
17:47
Speaker 2: give to the kids. I guess they have some type
17:51
Speaker 2: of interaction with the kids to talk to them and
17:53
Speaker 2: get to know them and things like that. And it's
17:56
Speaker 2: another one of these alternative approaches to policing that if
18:00
Speaker 2: they interact with these kids in a certain way rather
18:04
Speaker 2: than in a law enforcement way, they're going to reduce
18:08
Speaker 2: they're going to reduce attentions. And the issue is really
18:13
Speaker 2: whether this whole collaborative agreement really is working, because it
18:18
Speaker 2: sure doesn't seem like it.
18:19
Speaker 1: No that, I mean, that's my point, right, there's a
18:23
Speaker 1: specified component in the contract that it talks about the
18:26
Speaker 1: problems we're having a government square. Again, I don't think
18:30
Speaker 1: anybody can say anything, but it has gotten worse. So
18:34
Speaker 1: do those people have a special hat or something that
18:36
Speaker 1: they're issued easily identifiable government square, you know, civil service.
18:40
Speaker 2: I do think they have T shirts or something like that. Yeah, okay,
18:44
Speaker 2: But the real problem is the way they contracted that.
18:49
Speaker 2: The original contract with IRIS was for consulting, and when
18:54
Speaker 2: they amended the twenty twenty three contract to include the
19:00
Speaker 2: Government Square initiative, that should have been a separate, competitive contract.
19:05
Speaker 1: Absolutely, the sole.
19:07
Speaker 2: Source justification to begin with is deficient. But it's especially
19:12
Speaker 2: deficient to say that only Irish Roley LLC can carry
19:17
Speaker 2: out the work at Government Square. I liken it to
19:21
Speaker 2: the Authorization for the Use of Military Fish. It's like,
19:26
Speaker 2: we can use this for anything we want to use anything.
19:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't give her any ideas. We gave the drone
19:32
Speaker 1: strikes lawn drone strikes launch. And then there's the other
19:38
Speaker 1: nefarious component in here, and I'm not suggesting that all
19:41
Speaker 1: nepotism hires are always bad in all times, but they
19:46
Speaker 1: do draw an eye of scrutiny, like, wait a second,
19:49
Speaker 1: how did their son or daughter or best friend end
19:52
Speaker 1: up in that particular role. Do they have the requisite
19:55
Speaker 1: skill sets to bring about whatever it is they've been
19:58
Speaker 1: charged with doing right? Enter Ily's son, I believe, and
20:02
Speaker 1: he's a convicted felon correct, Yes, does that qualify him
20:05
Speaker 1: to work on Government Square project?
20:07
Speaker 2: Well, they don't line out the qualifications, but they should
20:11
Speaker 2: be considered subcontractors. They're not employees of Iris Rolely LLC.
20:17
Speaker 2: They're subcontractors, and under the procurement rules, the contractor is
20:22
Speaker 2: supposed to get permission from the city manager for any subcontractors.
20:28
Speaker 2: I didn't get any of those documents either, so I
20:32
Speaker 2: really don't know what who knows what about who Iris
20:36
Speaker 2: Roly is hiring. Her son is not the only one
20:39
Speaker 2: that's had trouble with law enforcement. There's another individual who
20:44
Speaker 2: and this individual's brother also is one of the four.
20:50
Speaker 2: He was prosecuted for tax issues about ten years ago
20:57
Speaker 2: or fourteen years ago, and that involved tens of thousands
21:02
Speaker 2: of dollars that were withheld from this person's employees that
21:07
Speaker 2: he didn't remit to the IRS, and then.
21:12
Speaker 1: I takes their tax dollars out and he doesn't hand
21:14
Speaker 1: him over to the IRS. Right.
21:15
Speaker 2: I think that is a very common problem with some employers.
21:19
Speaker 2: But the other issue is he apparently still owes hundreds
21:24
Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars to the IRS. Probably a lot
21:27
Speaker 2: of that is penalties and interest, But a couple of
21:30
Speaker 2: years ago it was like eight hundred thousand dollars.
21:34
Speaker 1: Well, and getting money directly from the City of Cincinnati.
21:37
Speaker 1: It sounds to me like she submits the invoices as
21:40
Speaker 1: lacking in detail as they are, gets paid the eight
21:43
Speaker 1: thousand dollars or whatever, and then pays her son and
21:46
Speaker 1: the other people that are on this government square board.
21:48
Speaker 1: The money is flowing from Iris roly LLC.
21:51
Speaker 2: Yes, one of the invoices that was provided by the
21:54
Speaker 2: city includes copies of four canceled checks paid to these
21:59
Speaker 2: four individuals, and that that was the extent of the
22:03
Speaker 2: paperwork provided in connection with those four people.
22:07
Speaker 1: Well, that's you know, that's a lot of process and
22:10
Speaker 1: the idea that this could go on and this could happen.
22:12
Speaker 1: And then going back to the idea that the invoices
22:14
Speaker 1: were specifically signed off on while they lacked all this information.
22:19
Speaker 1: There's multiple layers of violations and built into this from
22:23
Speaker 1: what I hear.
22:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what I can't What I can't figure out,
22:26
Speaker 2: is it it is common for bureaucracies to do catch
22:30
Speaker 2: me if you can, where they go ahead and they
22:33
Speaker 2: bend the rules or even break the rules, and if
22:35
Speaker 2: you catch them, they say, oh, we're sorry, well we
22:37
Speaker 2: won't do it again. But in this case, I don't
22:41
Speaker 2: know if it's really you know, catch me if you can.
22:44
Speaker 2: I think it's just you.
22:45
Speaker 1: Know, set up intentionally loose so this kind of thing
22:48
Speaker 1: can happen.
22:49
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's what I would look for.
22:52
Speaker 1: That's why we've got Todd Zinzer. That's why we need
22:54
Speaker 1: to keep him around. And if you vote Corey Bowman,
22:56
Speaker 1: maybe we'll get him as city manager. I'm praying for
22:58
Speaker 1: that day, don't. I'm not hanging you out to dry there, Todd.
23:01
Speaker 1: I think you would help us out immeasurably. Eight thirty
23:04
Speaker 1: five we are going to talk about the get ready folks.
23:07
Speaker 1: I think it's getting worse as the conversation draws longer
23:10
Speaker 1: in terms of how bad things are, in terms of improprieties.
23:13
Speaker 1: A thirty five right now if you have Kersite talk
23:15
Speaker 1: station fifty five krc DC Deep talk station, Hey thirty
23:21
Speaker 1: nine if you have Kersite talk station, Happy Friday. Brian
23:24
Speaker 1: Thomas Swift, Citizen Watchdog, Todd Zinser and Studio just Man.
23:29
Speaker 1: And the more I talk to Todd and the more
23:31
Speaker 1: he reveals, the worse I feel about the city of
23:33
Speaker 1: Cincinnati under the current administration. And since we do have
23:35
Speaker 1: an election coming up beginning in November, early voting going
23:39
Speaker 1: on right now, we have a choice on mayor. And
23:41
Speaker 1: I know Corey Mowment's fighting an uphill battle as a
23:43
Speaker 1: Republican in a very blue city. But so many of
23:45
Speaker 1: the residents of the city seem to be so upset
23:47
Speaker 1: about so many things, and we're just adding multiple layers
23:51
Speaker 1: onto that. You got to be a weed dweller to
23:53
Speaker 1: talk about engage in the level of detail that Todd
23:55
Speaker 1: Senser is working with. But as we're talking about these
23:58
Speaker 1: this is actually going on behind the scenes. Have processes
24:01
Speaker 1: in place for contracting and the like, they're not following them.
24:04
Speaker 1: They have contractual obligations built into that contract. For example,
24:07
Speaker 1: with Irish Roley, they're not being followed that's a huge
24:12
Speaker 1: red flag. And I'm just wondering as we move over
24:13
Speaker 1: to Northfolk Southern, Todd anything by way of civil or
24:20
Speaker 1: criminal statutory violations that are suggested by what you're revealing
24:24
Speaker 1: on this.
24:26
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think that there are opportunities to
24:30
Speaker 2: file lawsuits under Ohio code for their you know, their
24:35
Speaker 2: breaching their fiduciary duties basically.
24:37
Speaker 1: Okay, so this might have legs along some lighte because
24:41
Speaker 1: I know we have some really you know, activist lawyers
24:44
Speaker 1: out there who are usually more than happy to see
24:46
Speaker 1: the city for a variety of reasons.
24:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, the question, the reason I was hesitant in writing
24:52
Speaker 2: about this is because there should be additional documentation and
24:57
Speaker 2: it's not forthcoming. So maybe the only way to get
25:00
Speaker 2: that is through some kind of.
25:01
Speaker 1: Lawsuit, discovery request pursuing litigation. Todd Zens are pivoting over
25:05
Speaker 1: to Norfolk Southern. Now, there was this swirling issue about
25:08
Speaker 1: the money that was involved the marketing campaign, wasn't it. Yeah,
25:12
Speaker 1: we were deciding whether or not we're going to sell
25:13
Speaker 1: the railroad. Christopher smithm was a big no. A lot
25:16
Speaker 1: of members accounts were big As we ultimately sold it.
25:18
Speaker 1: Oh my god, everything's great one point six billion dollars
25:20
Speaker 1: an interest bearing account. But lots of people were wondering
25:24
Speaker 1: who in the hell funded the six million dollar ad
25:27
Speaker 1: campaign for this one issue. You got the bottom of
25:30
Speaker 1: that too, didn't you.
25:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. The sole contributor to the to Build Cincinnati's Future,
25:38
Speaker 2: the Political Action Committee. The sole contributor was Norfolk Southern,
25:43
Speaker 2: and they contributed six million dollars. And the reason they
25:47
Speaker 2: were able to do that is because under Ohio law
25:50
Speaker 2: on ballot issues and those campaigns, there is no limit
25:55
Speaker 2: on corporate contributions.
25:57
Speaker 1: So and there is no thing such as a common
26:00
Speaker 1: inflictive interest. Norfolk Southern is entitled to do an AD
26:03
Speaker 1: campaign that operates in its best interest.
26:05
Speaker 2: Yes, and early on it certainly looked like both the
26:09
Speaker 2: city and the Railway Board was just going to step
26:12
Speaker 2: back and let Norfolk Southern handle the campaign. That's basically
26:17
Speaker 2: what happened, except that Norfolk Southern engaged the mayor to
26:21
Speaker 2: appear in a set of TV commercials on the sale
26:25
Speaker 2: of a public asset that is going to benefit Norfolk Southern,
26:30
Speaker 2: And it was just kind of outrageous. And when PG
26:34
Speaker 2: Sittenfeld got pardoned and there was a big hoopla over that,
26:38
Speaker 2: I wrote an op ed and I said, well, that's fine,
26:41
Speaker 2: but what has the city done about all the anti
26:44
Speaker 2: corruption efforts that were made under the previous city council,
26:48
Speaker 2: under the previous mayor. Have they followed through on it?
26:51
Speaker 2: And the answer was no. So in June I sent
26:55
Speaker 2: a letter to the city Council and to the mayor,
26:58
Speaker 2: and I asked the city council to take all the
27:00
Speaker 2: anti corruption recommendations that had been made prior to them
27:04
Speaker 2: coming on board, line them out, and tell us what
27:07
Speaker 2: the status is. So that was the request to the council.
27:11
Speaker 2: To the mayor, I asked him for help in going
27:15
Speaker 2: to Norfolk Southern's pack and getting greater disclosure on how
27:20
Speaker 2: the pack spent six million dollars on that campaign, because
27:24
Speaker 2: I do not think it cost six million dollars five
27:27
Speaker 2: point four million, ninety percent of that Here we go,
27:30
Speaker 2: folks went to a consulting firm in Washington, d C.
27:34
Speaker 2: Called sk D Knickerbocker, and they are a big time
27:38
Speaker 2: consultant in DC. They happened to be on the Democrat
27:41
Speaker 2: side or Republican consultants just like that. Sure for example,
27:45
Speaker 2: they were big from what I understand, we're big on
27:47
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton's campaign, and they were given five point four
27:52
Speaker 2: million dollars by the pack and the description of what
27:56
Speaker 2: that money was used for was basically described in a
28:00
Speaker 2: handful of words advised consulting, printing, and apparently under the
28:07
Speaker 2: rules because I did consult with an attorney under the rules,
28:11
Speaker 2: that's that's complying with the campaign financial rules.
28:15
Speaker 1: That's less disclosure than IRIS were rely supposed to require.
28:18
Speaker 1: When she's submitting her invoices under her contract.
28:21
Speaker 2: It's not much different.
28:23
Speaker 1: So ad bys, printing and quote unquote consulting whatever. That
28:28
Speaker 1: is five point four million dollars, Yes, on a single
28:31
Speaker 1: issue campaign. Now you're in Hamilton County.
28:33
Speaker 2: Now there's two big coincidences. Number one is that f
28:38
Speaker 2: tab Purvol's campaign treasurer was also the treasurer for Norfolk
28:43
Speaker 2: Southern's Political Action Committee. And I actually filed a complaint
28:48
Speaker 2: with the Elections Commission about disclosures there and how can
28:53
Speaker 2: you have one person being a treasurer for both parties.
28:57
Speaker 2: There's something called coordinated communication between campaigns, and the Election
29:03
Speaker 2: Commission couldn't handle that issue, so they denied my complaint.
29:10
Speaker 1: Well, you don't have to have any coordination if you're
29:12
Speaker 1: the same guy exactly. It's not like you're writing yourself
29:15
Speaker 1: a letter exactly, so damn well what you're planning on doing.
29:18
Speaker 2: So what happened is the treasurer did produce an affidavit
29:22
Speaker 2: where he claimed he had nothing to do with who
29:24
Speaker 2: appeared in those TV commercials. It was the PAS steering committee.
29:29
Speaker 2: But we don't know who's on the steering committee. We
29:32
Speaker 2: don't know whether those folks are all campaign contributors to
29:36
Speaker 2: mayor Provol or whether they're just one person from Norfolk Southern.
29:42
Speaker 2: They don't have to disclose that. So I asked the
29:44
Speaker 2: mayor for help and identifying those people too.
29:46
Speaker 1: And what did mister transparency say in response to.
29:49
Speaker 2: That, Well, he has not responded. That was June one,
29:53
Speaker 2: so that was several months ago.
29:55
Speaker 1: Several months ago. That'd be have to have Provol's way of,
29:58
Speaker 1: you know, basically doing what my dad, who say, I've
30:00
Speaker 1: got two words for you, and it ain't happy birth.
30:02
Speaker 1: The other words no to your response for the information.
30:05
Speaker 1: So just by ignoring it you get the same effect.
30:08
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's basically how they treat a lot of
30:12
Speaker 2: people that come to them with issues.
30:14
Speaker 1: Well, we know how they treat everybody, look at the
30:16
Speaker 1: residents of Hyde Park, bond Hill. Yeah. One more with
30:20
Speaker 1: todds ens or Citizen Watchdog. Get his podcasts and definitely
30:23
Speaker 1: listen to it regularly. Eight forty six Right now fifty
30:25
Speaker 1: five KR CIT Talk station fifty five KRC and talk station.
30:37
Speaker 1: All apologies. Eight forty nine if you have KR City
30:40
Speaker 1: Talk station. One more segment here with Citizen Watchdog Todds
30:44
Speaker 1: inz Or Todd we were having a conversation off I
30:46
Speaker 1: we I think you and I can agree, and probably
30:48
Speaker 1: people who have been paying attention to where the city
30:51
Speaker 1: dollars are going can agree. We're funding a lot of
30:54
Speaker 1: non governmental organizations. Yes, and we've been down this road before.
30:58
Speaker 1: The mayor and the city manager have a huge amount
31:01
Speaker 1: of discretion to pick and choose which NGOs get taxpayer dollars.
31:06
Speaker 1: Is that a fair statement.
31:07
Speaker 2: Yes.
31:09
Speaker 1: Among these NGOs is an NGO called Centrifuse, Right, they
31:15
Speaker 1: have a board of directors. What is Centrifuge being paid
31:19
Speaker 1: by the city to allegedly do?
31:22
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's a good question, Brian. It's really
31:25
Speaker 2: it's it would definitely be spelled out in like an
31:28
Speaker 2: application for funding. But I haven't tracked that down. But
31:32
Speaker 2: what Centrifuse does is they help businesses start up. They
31:35
Speaker 2: help start up businesses.
31:36
Speaker 1: Okay, So if you a young person entrepreneur, you go
31:39
Speaker 1: to Centrifuse I need some help starting a new business.
31:41
Speaker 1: They provide you with some resources or send you over
31:44
Speaker 1: to some folks that can help you out, maybe hook
31:46
Speaker 1: you up with a financial lending company, that kind of thing. Right, Okay, fine,
31:50
Speaker 1: we can agree that the purpose may be noble. Whether
31:52
Speaker 1: or not there should be an NGO out there with
31:54
Speaker 1: taxpayer dollars doing it is another thing. They're getting. How
31:57
Speaker 1: much money from the city.
31:59
Speaker 2: They've been get ivan two hundred and fifty thousand a
32:02
Speaker 2: year for the past four or five six years. Well,
32:06
Speaker 2: it's well over a million dollars over that period.
32:08
Speaker 1: Of time, okay. And those board members have a fiduciary
32:13
Speaker 1: obligation to serve the interest that they are being paid
32:17
Speaker 1: to do.
32:18
Speaker 2: That's right.
32:19
Speaker 1: Who sits on that board among the members of the board.
32:22
Speaker 1: Who is on the board at Centerviews.
32:24
Speaker 2: Well, I found out earlier this year that the mayor
32:27
Speaker 2: have to have provol sits on the board and has
32:29
Speaker 2: sat on the board for his entire term. And what
32:33
Speaker 2: was surprising is that last year, at the beginning of
32:37
Speaker 2: the year, the city Council actually went through this issue
32:42
Speaker 2: of council members sitting on the boards of directors of nonprofits,
32:46
Speaker 2: and the city mayor, supported by the city solicitor, wrote
32:50
Speaker 2: a memo that said that is not a good idea.
32:52
Speaker 2: It's possible to do that, but there are so many
32:55
Speaker 2: things that you would have to accommodate to comply with
32:59
Speaker 2: the ethics rules that it was not recommended that the
33:03
Speaker 2: members of city council sit on the boards of directors
33:06
Speaker 2: of nonprofits. And all the while the mayor is sitting
33:09
Speaker 2: there overseeing this deliberation. He got a copy of the
33:13
Speaker 2: city manager's memo like everybody else. And as far as
33:16
Speaker 2: I know, there's been no disclosure by the city by
33:19
Speaker 2: the mayor that he sits on this board.
33:21
Speaker 1: Now, you're not he's not paid in this position.
33:24
Speaker 2: No, no, he's not.
33:25
Speaker 1: But as mayor, a separate set of ethical and fiduciary
33:30
Speaker 1: obligations exist to the taxpayers.
33:32
Speaker 2: That's correct.
33:33
Speaker 1: How can he be in a position of deciding that
33:36
Speaker 1: his own NGO or on which he sits on the
33:40
Speaker 1: board anyway, gets money, right, Isn't that just an outrageous
33:45
Speaker 1: conflict of interest.
33:46
Speaker 2: It does seem like that, Brian. I don't I don't
33:48
Speaker 2: think Centrifuse has done anything wrong, and I don't know.
33:51
Speaker 1: I don't want to suggest that, but.
33:52
Speaker 2: I think it's incumbent on the city to make sure
33:57
Speaker 2: that there's no conflicts of interest going on. In fact,
34:00
Speaker 2: back in May, I think I went down to city
34:04
Speaker 2: Hall because of all the money they spend on these
34:07
Speaker 2: NGOs and nonprofits, and I said, the least you could
34:11
Speaker 2: do is everybody that submits, you know, input on how
34:15
Speaker 2: these NGOs should be funded, everyone should sign a certification
34:21
Speaker 2: that they do not have a conflict of interest.
34:23
Speaker 1: Right, because here's how it might play out. Aftebs. I
34:25
Speaker 1: don't get any money from them. Yeah, I got some
34:27
Speaker 1: money going into this Centrifuse. Yes, I'm on the board
34:29
Speaker 1: of directors parent. You had mentioned off era that the
34:32
Speaker 1: head of centrifuse makes three hundred grand a year.
34:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, just about that.
34:35
Speaker 1: Okay, Now, what if he's looking for some campaign money
34:41
Speaker 1: he ends up sending money over to centrifew centreviews agrees
34:44
Speaker 1: to pay. Maybe you have tab has no connection with
34:46
Speaker 1: the amount of money that that guy pays. Maybe that
34:48
Speaker 1: guy's friends with atab pro Ball and maybe in return
34:50
Speaker 1: for getting a three hundred thousand dollars years paycheck from
34:53
Speaker 1: Centrifuse being doing NGO work, he decides that, you know what,
34:56
Speaker 1: I Am going to peel off a few thousand dollars
34:59
Speaker 1: of my FATS salary and give it the mayor to
35:01
Speaker 1: be re elected. So there is a money trail that
35:03
Speaker 1: could be easily created by virtue of the allocation of
35:07
Speaker 1: money to an NGO, upon which after that par Ball
35:11
Speaker 1: sits right.
35:12
Speaker 2: And this is just one ease. This is just one
35:14
Speaker 2: example of all of this spending that they do with
35:18
Speaker 2: these nonprofits. It's a very high risk area in terms
35:22
Speaker 2: of fraud, waste, and abuse because there's no internal controls.
35:26
Speaker 2: There's no oversight of what these folks are doing with
35:29
Speaker 2: their money. Some high level reports back about what we did,
35:33
Speaker 2: but nobody's really looking at these and even the internal
35:36
Speaker 2: auditor for the city has identified problems with these nonprofits.
35:40
Speaker 1: Well, and going back to this roly contract that involves
35:44
Speaker 1: government square specific work, I think we can all figure
35:49
Speaker 1: out perhaps that they haven't been able to accomplish anything.
35:51
Speaker 1: So the return on our taxpayer investment for that one
35:54
Speaker 1: subset isn't paying off well.
35:58
Speaker 2: I don't think it's paying off well?
36:00
Speaker 1: Need do I? I know it's a subjective conclusion. We
36:02
Speaker 1: can't be held accountable for that. But crime and Government Square.
36:05
Speaker 1: Government Square as a concept has been in the news
36:08
Speaker 1: time and time and time and time again. I have
36:10
Speaker 1: to have pear Wall has been talking about it. The
36:12
Speaker 1: police resource has been allocated to government Square. That sounds
36:15
Speaker 1: like a bigger problem that they're trying to address than
36:18
Speaker 1: it was maybe several years ago. So I'm gonna call
36:20
Speaker 1: it a failure. Whatever they thought they were gonna accomplish.
36:23
Speaker 1: Todd zinzer Man, we unloaded a hell of a lot today.
36:26
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for the work that you're doing.
36:30
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe maybe other local news will take the time
36:33
Speaker 1: to report on all of this because it seems very
36:35
Speaker 1: newsworthy and maybe, just maybe this will end up in
36:37
Speaker 1: court my hope. Anyway, Todd, thank you again.
36:42
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, Brian.
36:43
Speaker 1: You're always welcome here, my friend. Always. We'll keep listening
36:46
Speaker 1: to your podcast, Citizen Watchdog. Folks, you can get a
36:49
Speaker 1: chance