Latest / Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast / The Demonic 'Face' Haunting Our Combat Veterans | Graham Paul Roberts

Transcript

The Demonic 'Face' Haunting Our Combat Veterans | Graham Paul Roberts · Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hello, friends.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Chris Thrull.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a former Royal Marines commando.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I've adventured for better and sometimes worse across 80 countries
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: on all seven continents. Welcome to the Port Latisha podcast. Graham,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: how are you doing, brother?
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Good afternoon.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. How are you?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm firing, mate. Been a busy day today. Supposed
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: to have three podcasts and one cancelled, which I'm going
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: to say fortunately because I think I overloaded myself a bit.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: You can do too many and you kind of lose
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: your empathy. You know, you're tuning in with your guests
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: sort of thing. But yes, you're the second Welsh Guards
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: soldier we've had on the show. Do you know Sean Molino?
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, I do.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Yes. Super gentleman, friend of mine. He runs the English
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Veterans Awards, which I shall be attending this year, in
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: which he congratulates all those people who are veterans, who
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: are doing stuff in the community, basically. Friends, if you're
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: wondering what I'm talking about. So, yes. Graham, welcome. How's
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: the book sales doing?
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: It's doing okay. It's great. It's just been really well.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: It got released early July. Yeah, it's doing what it's
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: supposed to be doing. I've had a few thankful messages
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: from wives and veterans to thank me for needing it,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: which has made it clear to them in terms of
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: PTSD and trauma. But yeah, it's doing well, thank you,
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: both across the pond and in the UK.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: No, thank you, mate. The pleasure's all ours because, yes,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: more people need to be talking about PTSD. So, yeah,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I was intrigued to see you were born in 76.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: And the first thing you mentioned was the long, hot summer.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: One of the hottest summers on record. I think this
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: one we've just had may have even rivaled it. But
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Burritor Reservoir up on Dartmoor, near where we lived at
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: the time, you could walk across it. It was that empty.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: And we all had to get our water from a bucket,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: in a bucket, from a tap at the end of
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: the street.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Bloody hell.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Stan pipes, they called them. So yes, you had a
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: challenging introduction to life.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I was born, like we said, in the
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: hottest summer decades. My parents would remind me that, you know,
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: every so often when.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Times got hard. So I was two pounds.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Born and I was six weeks premature. With today's standards,
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: it's not a big deal. But, you know, if you
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: rewind the clock back to 1976, where medical science wasn't.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: As advanced as it is now, it was a big deal.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: And needless to say, I was rushed to Alder Hey
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Hospital in Liverpool, being from North Wales. And a funny
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: story about that, actually, is when my mum and dad
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: were in the ambulance, They were going through the tunnels,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: the canary tunnels.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: They, I don't know why, but the ambulance driver got lost.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: So he stopped a cop motorized vehicle, a motorbike.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: And asked directions.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: And the cop he spoke to was nonetheless with Ken
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Dodd filming. Really?
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I wrote that in the book.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: And he escorted him toward the home.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow. Yes.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, sorry.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: So I spent six weeks in an incubator after birth.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: And my predictions were I was going to have learning difficulties.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I'd have body disformation.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: And I later found out after my 16th birthday that
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't live past my 16th birthday. So, you know,
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: you could argue I was doomed from the very beginning.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I was small.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: You know, we didn't have a vast amount of money,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: so we were poor. Not poor, poor, but we didn't
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: have a lot of money. So the clothing I wore
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: was secondhand. The trainers I wore were secondhand. I struggled
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: really badly in school. I got put in a special class.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: In fact, I remember when I was in primary school,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: my mum came to the class and spoke to the teacher,
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: and I got moved down the ramp into a special class,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: and I stayed there until I left school when I
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: was 16. Yeah, so... I was bullied in school because
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: of that, bullied because of my size, bullied because academically
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: it wasn't the same progression as my peers, and I
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: was bullied, you know, for just wearing really crappy clothes,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: which helped.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: It was a challenge.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: What was your relationship with your parents like? Because things
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: were different back in them days.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they were good.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: I suppose they meant the best for us. They were
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: caring parents, obviously. But when I joined the military, which
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: we'll discuss, there was a friction relationship with my mum,
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: which we'll go into detail later. Not quite sure why,
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: you know, no one did anything wrong. There was love there,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: but for some reason there was friction. I really am
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: not sure why.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And you say you were bullied at school. That has
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: a profound effect on people in adulthood, I find.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Do you know what? You're absolutely right. It's the human brain.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, even as a fetus in the womb, the
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: brain develops and, you know, the empathy is important, et cetera.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: But when you're a young child up to late teenagers,
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: that's when your brain develops, you know, quite a bit.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: And I wasn't developing as much.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: So I later on in life, which we'll discuss later,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: met a psychologist and he explained to me that if
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: you don't build resilience skills as a teenager, for example,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: if things have been put in place, you know, like
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: bullying's in the way, et cetera, you find certain aspects
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: of life difficult to navigate or to deal with, which
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: that is absolutely 100% in my case. You know, I
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: didn't build the resilience I should have had as a child,
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: which has let the demons settle in later on.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: So.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: What made you decide to join the army?
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Well, when I was hiding, when I was bullied, so
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: my peers would leave school at half rate. I wouldn't
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: leave because I was going to get picked on at
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: the gates and called names and pushed around. So I
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: used to hide underneath the stairway in school until the
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: caretaker used to close up. And I used to get
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: home about six. And my excuse from my parents was
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: I was doing homework in school. I wasn't doing homework, obviously,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: but to carry my story through, I wasn't doing homework
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: at home So I suppose I was my own worst enemy.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: So I decided I couldn't just go through life with this.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I needed to do something.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: And I passed school, although my GCSEs were quite low,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: and I got a place as.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: A vehicle engineer in a local college, which I passed.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: I then got an apprenticeship as a junior mechanic in
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: a garage in North Wales. And I remember meeting an
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: old chap there. He was on part-time just to keep
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: his hands in it. He was in the Second World
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: War in the Remi. And he convinced me to join
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: the greenie. I went to the careers office. I passed
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: the barb test. And my intention was to join the
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: Royal Electrical Mechanical Engineers.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: That was my intention.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: I did my first interview, passed it, all the rest
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: of it. Went back to the careers office for my
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: second interview. And there we have a six foot five
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: strapping Welsh guard senior non-commissioned officer. who advised me, who
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: I was 18 at the time, that, young man, you
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: can do all this in the Welsh Guards. So me
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: being quite naive, as I'm sure many other recruits, potential
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: recruits are, I believed him. But what sold it to
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: me was he said to me, if you join the
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: Welsh Guards today, you'll be in Hong Kong in six months.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: And I was, you know, Hong Kong?
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God. Hell, yeah, I'll go now.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Do you know where I went?
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: I went to Liverpool, my frigging fresco, five strikes, 995s.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Where did you go? Liverpool?
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Liverpool. They're not frescoed on the fire strikes.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Was that when they had to get the military in
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: because the fire brigade, well, as you said, went on strike?
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, we had the old green goddesses. Yes.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: And they were a beast. Not in a good way,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: but they were horrendous.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Did you put any fires out?
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, we did put some fires out. I
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: think a half dozen. But I think we spent most
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: of the time chasing kids away.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Chasing kids away from what?
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: From the Green Goddesses as we were moving at 20
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: miles an hour. They were literally trying to rob the
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: hoses off the vehicles.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it can be like that up that way. Yeah.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I'd probably go, I'd probably be going around setting fire
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: to stuff just so I had something to go and
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: put out.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Do you know what? It was good.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, we went to Turnhill in Shropshire and there
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: was no role for us as such. The battalion before
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: I joined just came from Ballacallie. Um, So there wasn't
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: nothing to do because our next post in was London.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: So we were kind of in limbed, kind of really. So, yeah,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: we did the five strikes, which kept us busy, I suppose. Yeah.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Did you ever get to Hong Kong?
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: No, did I? Hell.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I've been there a few times.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, nice.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting place. Interesting place. So, yes, and you've seen
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: an awful lot of service, right? Do you want to
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: just name the theatres that you've been involved in?
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: Okay. Northern Ireland twice in South Myanmar. One was with
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Recky Platoon when we were helping a certain cohort of
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: soldiers who were gaining intelligence.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: We were their protection.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: And the second one, I was a team commander again
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: in South Myanmar.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Posovo.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: Static covert surveillance, so essentially we were looking for people
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: who identified for committing war crimes up to that date,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: that was 2007. That was a very good job, absolutely
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: loved it. I was cutting about pristine in cities, you know,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: doing reccees, doing OPs, actually very good soldier in.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Terms of the reconnaissance side.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: And then Herak Afghan, so I went to the green
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: zone in Pizganari, Siraj.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: That was in 2012, I did it as a colour bloke.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: um that was good absolutely loved that then.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: Obviously you know after that i went to iraq and
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: syria later on you know during my private.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Time yes um did you have any excitements on your
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: tours in northern ireland uh do.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: You know what right when we got told to go
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: on northern ireland uh we thought it was just gonna
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: be patrolling you know etc you know ieds and getting
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: shot up it wasn't as kinetic as i thought however
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: when they a young girl, she must be about 12,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: spat on my face in a place called Jonesborough. That
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: kind of made it real for me. I thought, okay,
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: neither likes you here. You are kind of not wanted.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: So not really as exciting as the boys did in
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: the 70s and 80s. No, you could argue it's come
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: to the tail end of our banner.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was there in the 80s and yeah, God,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: when it went off, it didn't half go off.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: That's going to make a lot of respect for the
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: boys who went there in the 80s. It was completely
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: different to when we were there.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's mad, isn't it? Anyone going out on patrol,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: it defies logic, really. The way you just run out
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: of that main gate and you... It's a lottery. It is.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Except the fact that, you know, one of your mates
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: has just been killed and you're just.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: You know, you're just putting yourself out there. Yes, yes. Blimey.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: What about in the other... conflicts you served in. Did
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: you have any close calls?
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Kosovo, not really. It was all covert.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: So, if we found ourselves in a firefight, something's gone
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: terribly wrong because we were obviously covert tasking. So, nothing
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: too exciting. There's more of a sense of satisfaction knowing
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: that you've been part of the process that has actually
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: got someone who's wanted arrested by the Swedish guys that
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: were there's But Afghan, I mean, Afghan, as a CQS,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: I'll discuss my military career in not too much detail
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: in a bit, but I wanted to always be with
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: the lads forward. So I was with a company in Bristol, PB5,
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: and my 2IC was in Mod Price, and obviously the
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: guys in Bastion.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Again, nothing too much in Afghan.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Again, this was 2012 when we went, when it wasn't
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: the early 2000s you know I think the Oscars they
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: had a quite a connected tour in 2009 when I
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: was on Saunders um yeah that's quite connected by all
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: accounts but you know in terms of Rack and Silly
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: I'll yeah when we get to it I'll discuss that
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: in quite some detail I.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Think yeah so um What do you reckon then about,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: you know, people talk about PTSD and civvies just think
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: it's something to do with war. As I said, my
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: every summit was to draw attention to know we're losing
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of people because we've lived complex lives, hence
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: complex PTSD. And I saw one thing I it's kind
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: of funny when I think a lot of people assume
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: I have PTSD from a service. And I try and
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: explain to them that when the guy behind me on
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: patrol got shot three times and fortunately lived, that was
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: like the most exciting day of my life. I was
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: like doing my job. It was what we all... I
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: wouldn't say it's what we joined up for. I think
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: we joined up to get out of potential poverty, a
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: dead-end life where you didn't feel you could nail a
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: satisfying job. But through that indoctrination that they put you
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: through in training... You do come out the side with
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: a different, you know, you do want to go and
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: prove yourself in combat. Whereas that wasn't the person, that
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: wasn't the reason I went down the recruiting office. But
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: what I'm getting to is, yeah, we had a lot
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: of stuff. We had, I think it was something like
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: 161 serious incidents in one day in Belfast. That's bombings, shootings, kidnappings, kneecappings. Stabbings,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: buses getting set on fire, riots, mortar bombs, you know, even...
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Pyra coming out with a machine gun and just pointing
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: it up at the flats in the Sanger on top
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: of the New Lodge Road flats and just let him
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: rip in broad daylight. Funny enough, the SAS happened to
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: be in the Sanger at the time with our lads
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: and our lads hit the floor and the SAS kicked
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: the windows open and just started pouring their Armalite rounds,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: you know, M16 rounds down into the street, which always
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: makes me chuckle. we went out on patrol with a couple.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: They just disappeared. They said, can we borrow a couple
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: of berries off you lads? So we looked like part
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: of the patrol. So we sorted that out for them.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: We're patrolling down the road and I look behind me,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: they'd gone. They'd clambered over a hedge and climbed and
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: climbed inside someone's garden shed. Pretty brave really. Cause I'd
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: have been terrified to be out there on my own
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: or in a, in a, in a, in a couple.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: My mate, uh, uh, There is another one for you.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I shared a room over there with a guy called
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Dave or a grot, as we call them in the military.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And and Dave, rest his soul. He used to climb
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: inside the Naffy girls, the boot of her car and
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: go on with her every night. When he wasn't on
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: patrol and he'd take his radio so he could hear what,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: you know, if he needed to come back. I thought
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: that was just, because we were there after the signalers
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: met a grizzly.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Grizzly, and we were literally... The tour after that. So
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: we were there, you know, Penny Lane. We patrolled past.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: We'd patrol past that. But Dave, when we got back,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: gassed himself in his car not far from my home.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: So another person that, you know, suffering the old trauma.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: but no, the point I was getting at Graham was like,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: none of that's bothered me because all of that, you
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: can deal with that sort of, you know, that sort
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: of challenge. What, what you can't deal with is the
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: stuff from childhood that's deeply ingrained in you because you
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: were too young to be able to process it. So
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: your mind like stores it away in the back there. And,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: and it, Throughout your life then, you were in flight, fight,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: or pause mode. Whenever there's any sign of conflict, it's like, whoa,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: you're hyper sort of vigilant, hyper sort of triggered. So
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: I sort of say that to people that, no, I don't,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: you know, military service wasn't bad. But then having said that,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: you did meet some horrible blokes in the Marines. They
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: were a minority, fortunately. Most blokes were just absolutely wonderful.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: They were like the last people you would think that
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: would be up for a job that involves killing people.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: You know, it just absolutely wonderful lads. And I'm friends
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: with so many of them still today. But you did
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: get the odd bully or two. And if they had
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: your ticket, whoa, it become a thing, you know. you
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: would have to manage your way around these lumps. Cause
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: that's what they were. Do you know what I mean? You, you,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: you didn't go off at them because they said, they're
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: just gonna pummel you. Anyone else, fuck it. Just get
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: stuck in. Don't you, you know, but, but these guys
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: were like, well, give them a bit of a wide berth.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: And fortunately only really had it once. And my troop stripy,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: he recognized, I think someone went and reported what was
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: going on. And he, He moved me to a different
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: tent in Norway, which was an absolute godsend because I
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: moved from one tent with the two idiots in it
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: into a tent with four lads who were just legendary. Again,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: we're all still friends to this day. But I just
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: wanted to ask you, Graham, what's the sort of bullying
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: like in the Welsh guards?
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Bank bullying doesn't happen, not to my knowledge. There is
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: different standards of lads. You know, you do get the
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: lads who are from different backgrounds, more of a robust background,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: as well as.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Me, but not from.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: When I say robust, obviously I was robust because I
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: went through all sorts of childhood trauma.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, stronger.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: It's like, I suppose there's things in the Marines, it's
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: like pack animal mentality. They can sniff out the weak ones.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: And I was one of the weak ones, you know,
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: hands up. And I found because of that, I had
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: to work 10 times harder at everything I did to
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: hide me, you know. And I went through my career,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: did my last corporal, did my recce, you know, did
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: my PTI, junior Brecon, senior Brecon, you know, which is
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: promotion courses.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I did my sanders, I was a color scientist in
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: the sanders.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: You know, and every exercise I did, I was winning
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: patrol competitions all the time.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I built so much reputation for myself, but I was.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Still that vulnerable young chap from North Wales who had
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: to build resilience to survive in life. And I think,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: in my experience in the military, you've got two types
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: of soldiers. You've got those, both soldiers are good. Those,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: the good one, good one A, so to speak, is
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: naturally athletic, naturally big, and he can just sit back
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: and just be a good soldier. And the good one B...
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Like I said, he has to fight for it. He
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: has to really work mentally and physically to keep up.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: And in some cases, luck has it, that small person's
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: nostalgia B overtakes A. And I've seen cases before when
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: these lumps, as you refer to them, they're stuck as
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: a Marine or a Guardsman, whereas you're now Mars Corporal,
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: Lance Sergeant, et cetera, and.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: You're climbing up the ranks.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: And that's when.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: They leave you alone, you can argue.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. But going back to what you said earlier about
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: talented trauma and resilience, I absolutely back you up, 100%
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: believe you, that's a huge factor on how you process
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: trauma in the military.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: You kind of block it away, don't you?
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I think the problem is that when I was a teenager,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: even though I'd been to six schools, this whole range
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: of just hideous stuff that I experienced as a kid,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: stuff that people would have got time in prison for
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: if they got caught for it, if you know what
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: And even though that, when I was a teenager, I
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: just felt like I was like everybody else. I had certain...
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: idiosyncrasies i'll if you try to if someone called me
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: a liar for instance i just instantly go into fight
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: mode i i couldn't help myself i just i would
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: just punch and i i'll punch quite a few people
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: not that i'm i'm proud of it um i also
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: wouldn't accept being bullied because at school it was a
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: bit different to me i mean you generally tended to
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: get people your own sort of size and I did
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: judo for a year so I was well versed in
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: how to throw people and that massively come in handy
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I'd let someone say something to me once and I'd
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: let it twat and on that third time they wouldn't
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: know what hit them Graham you know so I had
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: these personality quirks you could say that were representative of
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: a deeply deeply traumatised person lots of stuff but When
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I joined up, I didn't know this because I hadn't
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: reflected on it or I hadn't been to see a
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: psychologist or anything. Apparently, I had social work as a kid,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: but I was too young to remember it. That's how
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: bad things sort of got. And so when I joined
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: the Marines, I felt like everybody else. I didn't realize
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: that I was actually quite different in a lot of
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: respects and occasionally it would ruck up against someone you
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: know you'd be a gobby southerner saying right fellas it's
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: got to be done like that and some blokes they
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: didn't want to hear that you know it wasn't that
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: you didn't say the right thing or choose the right
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: course of action It's that their trauma was triggered by
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: having a gobby southerner who appeared to be telling them
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: what to do sort of thing, you know?
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Kind of crazy that after 40 years, all this is like,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: all goes up, all water under the bridge, you know,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: and you all become mates. But what happens is, is that,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, I spent seven years in the service and
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't have to think about this thing. I just
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: knew that I had money in my bank every month.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I could go where I wanted. I traveled all around
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the world. I used all the indulgence flights. I flew
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: for free or really cheap to exotic places, Hong Kong.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: From there, I went to Thailand and China. I was
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: in China in 91 when it was just this red
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: communist state that nobody went to, let alone British servicemen.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I just rocked up at the border with my passport
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: and they let me in. You weren't banned is what
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to say, but So I did all this
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: amazing stuff when I served. But of course, all that
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: time where all you're thinking about is saying, yes, sir,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: even when you didn't really mean it. And like what
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: mountain bike or what new fishing rod am I going
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to buy? That's like the limit of your, you know,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: the active service stuff. That was just fun as far
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: as I'm concerned. Civilians would probably think that's all like
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: dangerous and you're all terribly, no, I loved it. So
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: what I'm getting at Graham is I didn't have to
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: think about life for seven years until I left. And
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: within seven months of leaving, I'm chronically addicted to drugs.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I'm homeless, ironically on the streets of Hong Kong. And
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: I'm working as a nightclub doorman for the 14 K
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: triads in a nightclub in one Chi in a red
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: light in the nightclub district in, in Hong Kong. Um,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: And yes, so I forgot the point, the original point,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: but that's my story in a nutshell is my childhood
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: trauma came back to tell me I was that useless,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: worthless individual that wasn't worth nothing, that didn't have enough
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: love from my parents. In fact, got kicked out of
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: home in my school uniform twice. Joined the Marines because
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I was living in a Renault 12 estate, homeless. And
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the stresses of leaving the military and feeling useless. Well,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: in fact, I went to Hong Kong to run a
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: business at first and it was all great, but then
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: it collapsed. And then I was like doing these odd
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: jobs and I started to just self-medicate with drugs, basically.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: The fact that I was lonely, I couldn't see a
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: future for myself. Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. And I
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: think this is what happens to a lot of servicemen
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: is they leave this safety umbrella and they're on their own.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: And then suddenly you've got to work for a boss
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: who might be a bit of a dickhead. You've got
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: these different rules in the civvy workplace where, you know,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: you could be across the desk from someone chatting away
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: every single day. And you don't know that person has
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: literally just gone to see the boss to report you.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Because you said the F word too many times or
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: you said something that they thought was offensive to black
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: people when you were like, you know, I served in
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: combat in theatre alongside my black brothers. Thank you very much.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? And it starts to spiral.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: You start to medicate every night or you start to
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: get depressed and then the wife has to leave you
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: because you can't be around the kids in this state.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: And that spirals you more. And this is what I
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: think we're seeing or some sort of version of it, Graham.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Does that make any sense?
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God, Chris.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: That is a mirror image of my life.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: That is a mirror image.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: So when I left the World's Guards after 20 years,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: I was lost. So I decided to do CP, went
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: to Iraq and did the old CP. So I spent
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: two years doing that. It was boring. What year was it?
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: That was 2013, 2015.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: So I then applied for a company who was working
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: in Syria. Got the job, spent three and a half
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: years there, mentoring local forces.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: And what initially was.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Going to be a training mission ended up.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Being still training, but mentoring local forces as well.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: And just briefly, some of the scenarios I found myself
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: in was, you know, pinned down in an olive grove
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: re-entrant with the enemies firing at me. My radio battery
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: wasn't working or whatever. The bloke behind me is finding
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: himself stuck between two firing points. Run up the hill,
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: waving my left hand, got seen, happy days. Another scenario,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: pinned down by an olive tree. This time, when he
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: got shot, if you hear a crack in the thumb,
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: it's a good three metres above. But when you hear
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: a whistle, like a... It's within a foot away from
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: your head. And I was in the prone position. The
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: bloke next to me, with my friend, got his hand
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: shot off. So we had to give him first aid.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: And at that point, my head just gave up because
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: I couldn't see a way out of that. Another scenario,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: my weapon got shot in my hand. Bear in mind,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: the enemy's a lot of thousands of meters away. And
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: they shot me 8K out of my hand. And being
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: typical bloke bravado, the boss looked at me and went,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: why the fuck did you just drop your weapon? With
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: a grin on his face, it changed out his barracks.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: It worked. Another scenario, the bloke next to me, To
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: my left, we were in the five-fighters, part of five-support.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: His head went down into the dirt. I nudged him.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: There was nothing left. I thought, fucking hell, he's been killed.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: So I moved him over, checked him. He had a
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: very small bullet hole by his collarbone. Checked for entry.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Actually, we were nothing.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: So I had to pick him up in some kind
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: of really crap diamond slit. We were hiding in the
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: back of a pickup.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Another scenario was on.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: A recce patrol, me and the blokes, and we came
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: 15 metres away from the enemy. And this scenario, Chris,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: had haunted me for years. So I seen this bloke
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: leading through around the building.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I froze. He went.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: He then reappeared. And what ended up happening was a
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: big firefight. But we extracted back to ERB, which was
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: the FRB. Another scenario is looking for step-by-nodes. And there's
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: one of the bloke that's teaching to deal with IEDs. Obviously,
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: when you deal with IEDs, you might can avoid it.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: This bloke wasn't doing that. So I was getting really
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: pissed off watching him anyway. And Looking through and it's
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: just been up in pink mess, literally nothing left. We
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: went down there to find the blokes and they were
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: just running around like hellish chickens. We contained it and
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: then all of a sudden a massive crack and thump
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: above us. and we were observing the attack away on
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: a kind of old chicken factory, and one of the
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: last kind of the ladders where we were, and literally
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: got cut in half by a tall boy slam dust around.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Another scenario, we were observing an attack away, finished the attack,
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: one of the blokes stood on a berm, built some
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: national defence, sorry, got shot in the neck, went straight down.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: We also used to do urban training in a place
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: called Zone N Delta.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: And it's an old primary school.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: And I was looking at the wall, the outside wall,
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: and I noticed all these bullet holes on the wall
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: about three, four foot high. So I asked my interpreter
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: what I was and he said to me, the kids
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: are the school and the village, that's where they're executed.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: And that time I was missing the kids and I
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: felt really, really crappy over that.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: That afternoon we were on patrol, just like training patrol.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: And we went to this small room of a house
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: not that far away from the school. And on the
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: floor was all like really fine dust, grey-ish, sandy colour.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: My interpreter said that was the remains of the people
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: who were executed. I felt sick seeing that. And the
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: last one, was when the lads finished the installs and
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: won the positions, we went forward and there was a
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: burning ISIS body.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Sorry, it wasn't burning, but it was a burnt ISIS body.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: And I don't know why I did this, but I
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: decided to squash his skull with my right foot, with
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: my boot.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I damaged hatred in me.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: But at that time, all that felt normal because I
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: was conditioned not to let any emotions run into me.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: So as you say, when you're on tour, it's all
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: about getting, getting, listening to Metallica and getting to it.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: It's all mega.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: But exactly what you said, when you take your uniform off,
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: things go massively wrong.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: They really do.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: And for me, that started to go wrong. So when
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: we left Syria in early 19, my sister passed away
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: with cancer. So that really, really hurt me hugely because
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: we were very, very close, very good friends. And during
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: the COVID year, sorry if I start getting.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: A bit nervous, I apologise.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: It's fine, don't worry.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: During the COVID year, 2020, that's when things went absolutely
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: wrong for me. I remember kneeling down in the garden,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I just broke down in tears. I knew why, but
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to know. It's a blood mentality. It'll
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: be all right, crack on, soldier on, although you're not
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: soldier anymore. It was getting worse and worse and worse
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: and worse. And then I started to self-medicate. I was
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: taking Cocodamol every night to knock me out. I was
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: drinking booze, vodka, anything I could get my hands on.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Then my mum passed away with cancer as well. So
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: things were literally going sour. They were going sour for me.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: And then I was on....
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Excuse me, sorry.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: No, take your time, bloody hell. You've been through the mill, mate,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: haven't you?
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: So... My lad said to me that he was going
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: to stay in his mate's house. So I checked the
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Snapchat location. He wasn't knowing he had his mate's house.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: It was in a set of woods adjacent to the
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: Manite Straits. And my kids love, they love the water.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: They love the hills. You know, they're fit lads. And
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: I thought, okay, I should fucking go out on the water.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: So I went to the woods to have a look.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: And who was in the woods facing at me was
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: this bloke in Syria. This bloke in the recce, he
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: was 15 metres away, holding up an AK. I literally
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: shot myself. I froze. I didn't know what the hell
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: to do. I didn't run towards him. I didn't go back.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: I literally could not move. I was stuck to the ground.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: And all it was, was Ivy had fallen from the tree.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: It looked like a shadow of a human. And then
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: things went terribly bad from there. I started to hallucinate.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I started to see a picture in every room, which
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: is in the book, in chapter 33. And the picture
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: for the listeners, it's a long face, about a foot wide, sorry,
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: foot long, about six inches wide, sunken in black eyes,
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: sharp white teeth and a cream face. And it was
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: in the top right corner of every single room I
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: was in. It doesn't matter if it was in my classroom,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: if I was home, if I was in the shower,
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: it would be there. When I was at my lowest,
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: they used to scream at me. But when I was
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: two-sided up, They always.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Laugh at me.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: And at one point, I was in the kitchen, my
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: wife was telling me off for something I've obviously did.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: The face went on her face and was laughing at me.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: So not proud to say this, I decided to plan
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: my exit. So I planned my own death. So the
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: idea was I was going to hang myself wearing a
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: black suit, white tie, and a blue-red-blue tie with my
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: shoes balled up. I was going to hang myself on
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: the trees Opposite where I was born. So where I
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: was born was St. David's Hospital in Bowery, North Wales,
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: but it's now Matala, if I can say that. And
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: the woods opposite, I was going to go there. Told
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: my wife this, got amongst arguments. I got arrested, not
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: because I was being violent towards my wife, but she
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: was more concerned for my safety, because I said I
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: wanted to kill myself, I just couldn't take it anymore.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this thing got more vivid.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: And then my wife gave birth to our daughter, And
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: during the birth, I nearly lost both of them. My
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: wife had internal bleeding, and my daughter's heart rate went
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: absolutely ridiculously low. So, you know, at that time, personally,
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: I lost my sister, I lost my mother, I was
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: losing my marbles. I lost my marriage as well, which
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: I'll discuss in a minute, sorry. I went too far
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: ahead then.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I was losing everything.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: But going back to the marriage, when I was in Syria,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: I came home to a day job for my wife.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: That really, really hurt me.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: So, jumping again, sorry. So I recalculated my life. I
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: lost my marriage. I lost my sister. I lost my mother.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: I was losing myself. I was losing my wife. Again,
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: I lose my daughter.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: It was horrendous. So I then realized I needed help.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: So I approached the British Legion to then put me
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: in touch with Veterans Wales. And Karen, who's my therapist,
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: was listening to me speak, gave me some tools. It
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: wasn't enough.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: You know, God bless her. She then passed me over
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to a clinical.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Psychologist in the NHS who diagnosed me with complex PTSD.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: And the reason I had complex PTSD is because.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: I had so much shit going on. It just wasn't
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: just one scenario. It was everything.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I just could not deal with it. So he put
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: me on medication.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: And when he told me that, I kind of felt
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: relieved but embarrassed as well.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: So I got a bloke and thought, I'm not fucking
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: taking meds. No way am I doing it.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: No chance I'll crack on.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God, man.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: It got worse. It literally got worse to the point
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: I planned the day I was going to hang myself.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: It was going to be Wednesday. I don't know why Wednesday.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: It's born on a bloody Monday.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: But it got worse and worse and worse and worse
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: to the point that I'm going to lose. I've survived
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: the birth, but I'm actually going to lose it. It's
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: going to leave me. I was drinking heavily every day.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Every opportunity, I was drinking. I was taking medication at
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: night time. So I was having nightmares. I was bashing out.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: I was crying.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I was sweating. I was hitting out.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: It was just horrendous at times. So I said, well, look,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: I'm going to try. So the medication that was given
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: to me was quetiapine, which is an antipsychotic, which the
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: intention was to help me stop eating things.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: And the other one was sertraline, which works.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Hand-in-hand with that.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: It's an antidepressant.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Down to my bedside drawer, I just kept looking and thinking.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: If I take these, I've lost. I've given in. I've
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: lost the fight.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: But then I said to myself, If you take medication,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: you've won the fight because you've actually beaten the demon.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: So I gave it a go. And do you know what?
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: Anyone who's listening to this who is in the same
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: predicament about either to or not take meds, it saved
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: my life. It absolutely saved my life. Division started to go.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: My mind was at ease. It saved my marriage. It
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: saved my relationship with my kids. It saved my relationship
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: with myself. It enabled me to be a better person.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Wow. Yes, that's what they say, aren't they? That meds
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: can give you a bit of a window to just
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: get a bit of sense of normalcy. respite, I guess
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: is what I'm trying to say.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Sorry if I hop it on, Chris.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, mate. I didn't want to interrupt you.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: It's phenomenal what you've experienced. What do you think the
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: face was that you were seeing? Did you ever get
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: to the bottom of that?
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: No, I didn't.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I really didn't.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, is it a combination of that fight I
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: was involved in? Is it a combination of the face
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: I squashed? Is it some kind of psychological... demons.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: From a childhood?
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: Is it a combination of everything come in? I don't know.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: But you've obviously brought it all back around to write
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: an awesome book. Here it is, friends. I'll just show
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: you it on the screen again. Echoes in the Silence.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Was there a seminal moment where you thought, look, things
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: have got to change? The booze isn't doing me any
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: favours or I've got to leave the past behind or...
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: How did it pan out?
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: My wife said to me, who's still my wife now,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: and for the record, she's an absolute diamond. And I
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: genuinely was listening to this. Please open up, guys and girls.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: You know, that person closest to you they will save
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: you so i opened up and i said to her
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: that look this is what i'm going through and she
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: said try writing things down and i was like well
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: let's write it down so i gave it and i
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: sat on this desk in the office at home i
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: wrote it down on a blank a4 piece of paper
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: with a black pen full of points What was troubling me?
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: And I started from day one of my life all
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: the way to, it was 2023. I started, you know,
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: that was the finish point at the time. And the
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: list was huge. I was like, fuck, yeah, I'd be
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: for some shit, man. Jesus Christ. So I wrote it.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: I felt a sense of, okay, but it wasn't it.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: So I decided to do, Each bullet point, I decided
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: to write down the details with it, and the details became.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Bigger and bigger. But do you know what?
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: A part of all this journey as well, and it's
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: very cathartic to write the book, but Karen, my psychologist,
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: if there's one skill she actually taught me, I will
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: mention it now if that's okay, before I forget. When
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: you're revisiting trauma, because you always have memories. Memories never go.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: It's just learning how to manage them. But what I
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: actually did, rather than being emotionally involved, emotionally in that trauma,
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: She said, try sitting down in the cinema in a
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: nice comfy chair, soda in one hand. I'll say soda
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: because I'm not allowed to use the words you said
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: because they get done for copyright. Popcorn in the other hand.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: And she goes, look through.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: It through a TV screen. Look through it through a
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: square box. And I did that and it helped me
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: to emotionally detach. It felt really strange. The first one
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: I watched was when my hand.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Had got blown up. I'm watching it from A different perspective.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: It was a breath of fresh air. So with all
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: that in mind.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: I decided to move those paragraphs bigger and bigger and
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: then they became chapters and that's how the book was born.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: And how did this, you know, obviously writing the book,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: it's interesting that you could say it was therapeutic, I guess.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: But you know what? I found it more therapeutic.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: This is really strange to say. I'm now an additional
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: learning needs teacher. And for me, it's not just a job.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: It's therapy because I was once one of my students. Yes. So,
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: you know, I suppose what I'm trying to say there
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: is if you're going through shit, find something that you
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: enjoy and focus on that.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: And that will naturally push things to the side that
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: are not relevant at that time.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting that because... the biggest thing I think
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: I got asked when I, after I wrote my first memoir,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: I've written three now, believe it or not. In fact,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: for people watching there, they're up there, folks, those ones. Um,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: but the biggest question I was asked was, Oh, was
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: it therapeutic? And, My answer was, no, it was the
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: complete opposite because I was writing about something that happened, God,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: 15 years ago. And I should have been healed from
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: all this, which obviously I was on the healing process.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, things just kicked off in Hong Kong for me.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: It was bizarre. It was just absolutely bizarre. I was
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: in full-on psychosis. I was phasing in and out of
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: full-on psychosis for seven months. My point is, I said
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: to people, no, it's the furthest thing from therapeutic. It's
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: like rehashing all these traumatic memories, you know, thinking I
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: was going to die in this scenario and doing something
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: so stupid that I nearly lost my life in this
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: scenario and living in this depraved, just absolute, you know,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: down and out, the worst, worst you could get. So
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: I'm interested that I think because you wrote your book,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: whilst you were still going through this, it helped to
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: get you out of it. Whereas for me, it probably
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: shoved me back a bit, if I was honest. I
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: think I drank more than a few beers while writing
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: my memoir.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: No, I get it.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: You know what?
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: I sympathise with that. I empathise.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: Because when I was writing it, it was quite difficult.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: I had to stop at times. And when my editors,
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: like I said earlier, when they were adjusting the font,
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: adjusting the language... They were sending it back to me.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: And one chapter in particular, it took me a while
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: to build up the confidence and the courage to read it.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Because this particular chapter is the meaty chapter for me.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: It's the one that's quite raw. And yeah, I agree.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: It did bring back nightmares for me. And that's the
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: thing with medication. I was not long prescribed cotypin before that.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: And I spoke to my doctor about my mental state.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: He said, you can type in a little bit, depending
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: on how you want it. It's like, you come and go.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: So I did that and it worked. So yeah.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: You're right, actually, Chris. People think when you write a book,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: it's part of the healing process.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: It really is and it isn't.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: It's a weird feeling. Yeah, absolutely. I get it.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: So when did you start feeling better then? Like I
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: was saying, was there anything that you did? I mean,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing you cut down on the booze and the pills.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: I have to admit, I don't take the painkillers anymore,
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: but I am working on reducing the booze.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I'm still in it.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: I'm still in the fight in terms of I'm at
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: the latter stage of it now.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Am I recovered? I'm recovering.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: And what helps me is when people get a hold
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: of me and say that I've helped them.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I had the message not.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: That long ago from a lady who'd read my book
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: and she now understands her husband and that's helped.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Build a marriage.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Reading that and, you know, stories like that helps me
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: recover as well. Your mind, it's like a sponge, you know.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: It can absorb, it can re-drain and absorb positivity, you know.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: So you have to fill yourself. You have to fill
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: your life with positivity. So I am recovering. I'm getting better.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: If you'd asked my wife now, she'd say you are
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: absolutely by far a different person than you were 12
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: months ago.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Don't beat yourself up about drinking because it's like this.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: You're going to end up in a much, much better place.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: You can see that trajectory coming. And everything we do
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: is just part of the learning process. So this is
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: why on the hundreds of, I guess you call them
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: lapses or relapses I've had over the years, back into booze,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: back into, you know, whatever. Like I've always had a
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: golden rule, Graham, Chris, don't beat yourself up, you know.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Just reflect on your behavior. Pick your day again when
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: you get back on the horse, but don't beat yourself
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: up because the worst thing in sustaining self-medication, you know, drugs, alcohol,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: is a negative self-opinion about yourself, you know. And if
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: you feel bad about yourself, then it's just more reason
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: to want to anesthetize yourself. So I've always had this rule,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: never beat yourself up about it. But the seminal change
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: for me came with the concept of one year, no beer,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: which I totally screwed up, as I quite often do.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I'd been unable for probably, gosh, I mean, I was
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: at it for 35, probably four. I mean, I'm 56 now.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: I started drinking pints of 9% homebrew when I was
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: 13 or 14. has a long time to you know
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: be bashing it and then for many years at 20
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: 24 i drank every single day every single day category
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: without doubt and then when i started to try and
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: get it together i might be able to manage a
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: day without it sometimes two and then boom you're back
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: you're and I really felt that sobriety or periods was
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: just out of my grasp, Graham. I just thought, nah,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: can't see it. And then one day I woke up
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: on a bench in Paddington Station. I'd arrived there for
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: a Royal Marines do that was going on. I got
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: so shit-faced on the train on the way up with
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: a brother Royal Marine that, I woke up on the
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: bench at twenty past four in the morning and I
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: sat down on that bench at eleven o'clock at night.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: So I'd been just comatose on this bench for five
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: and a half hours. And what it was, I'd sat
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: down to get my phone out to find out where
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: my digs were, where this when where was a staying.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: And that that must have been. I must have stowed
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: my phone away, fortunately, and that was it. And I
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: was a father by this stage. You know, my son
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: had arrived. And sometimes I was just like, oh, Chris,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: you could have got stabbed, mate. You could have at
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: minimum had your bag stolen. So that was that. And
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: I met up with the guys the next night and
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I said to one of them, smudge it was, I said, Smudge,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: you know, I've been hearing veterans talk about this one
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: year no beer. My buddy Ollie Ollerton from the SAS program,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: he was talking about it in a podcast. And I said,
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: you know what, I'm done with this. I'm done. I'm done.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: I'm just done with it now. And I'm going to
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: do this one year no beer. I didn't realize it's
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: actually an organization that you sign up with and they
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: coach you how to have a year off the beer.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Me and my stupidity. I just thought... you, you know,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: hashtag one year no beer and then you just don't
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: drink beer for a year. And I was at such
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: a crux moment in my life that I just didn't
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: want to drink. I just, it was enough now. You know,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: this is getting stupid. I'm having blackouts every time I drink.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: And the shame of it all was enough to say,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: screw that. And I had a year off it. At
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: the end of that year, I was chatting with my girlfriend,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: still my girlfriend to this day, beautiful woman. And I said,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: I've done it on a year off the beer. She said, well,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: you haven't really, Chris, have you? Because you've been necking
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: painkillers for that. I was like, oh, yeah. Because I'd
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: had a history of back operations and that meant that
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: there was always this stuff in the house. And it was,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: you know, getting off it was, it took me years, Graham,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: to get off painkillers. It physically altered my brain to
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: the point where it was such a painful process to
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: try to get off it. I thought I was in
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: cold turkey. I didn't realize that no, painkillers, especially if
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: you've came in with alcohol, it changes your brain chemistry
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: and it puts you in a horrible place for months
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: and months. It's why I got into water fasting, sauna,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: et cetera, is I was just desperate to find a
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: way to stop feeling this awful feeling. You know, it
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: wasn't cold turkey because cold turkey lasts a few days.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: This is months and months. Anyway, so I've done this
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: one year, no beer. My girl then points out we
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: haven't really done it substance free for a year. So
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I said, all right, I'll do another year no beer
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: and I'll knock the painkillers on. So I did that.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: And this is a big part of my journey, mate.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: How I get out and smash stuff and climb Everest
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: and row oceans. I've been through the meal you've been
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: and it helped me get my head together and understand
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: why am I carrying baggage from trauma. I'll let that go.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Why am I not feeling grateful for my life? Why
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: am I comparing myself to a guy who drives a Mercedes?
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: He's probably a dick. He's probably really unhappy. He's probably fat. Sorry, folks,
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I don't mean to be rude. I'm just, you know,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: talking like the realities of life. He's probably unhappy because
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: he doesn't go. And that was that. And then I
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: just made a decision to cut everything. You know, I'd
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: made the decision quite a while back to cut everything down,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: get off it gradually. And so this one year no
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: beer thing, it was the thing. And I'd recommend anybody
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: do it. If you know you've got a booze problem,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if you're drinking a bottle of
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: wine every night, folks, yeah, fine. I did it for 30,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: 35 years. It's not a judgment, but it's kind of
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: telling you it's going to kill you young, isn't it?
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Or young, younger.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Get onto the one year no beer people and do
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: it properly. Not like what I did. Because what happens
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: is if you say, right, I'm only going to drink
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: on a day with a Y in it, you literally
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: fail before you start. You know, I'm only going to
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: drink on Saturdays if I'm with the lads and you
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: fail before you start. That Saturday will turn into the Sunday.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: Next thing you know, three months are gone and you're back.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: The only way to separate yourself from that draw of
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: it The hooks that alcohol gets in you is to
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: have a year off it. And by the end of
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: that year, you look back and you go, bloody hell,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: why didn't I do it earlier? Oh, my God. Oh,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: my God. I've got my life back. Why did I
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: sit on the couch for 30 years getting drunk or
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: at least happy? But sometimes it was, well, you know,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: 12 cans of special brew or strong lager, rather, you know,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: and then working the next day. Why did I do
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: that for so many years when now I just sit
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: on the couch and watch telly sober and it's way more,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: it's way better because I know I'm going to be
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: up at four or five o'clock out for my run
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: in the sauna by seven o'clock, having a cold shower
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: or being in the plunge ball by eight, sat here
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: ready for work, feeling like, whoa, let's go. Whereas when
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: I'm on the booze, There ain't no alarm clock ground.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It's like I'll wake up
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: when I feel I've finally managed to get a bit
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: of sleep. Then I'll get up. Then I'll eat a
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: load of shit for breakfast instead of having, you know,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: green vegetables, which just fires me up. So sorry to
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: interrupt your chat, mate, but I just wanted to put
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: that out there for people who are struggling with abuse
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: because it can seem daunting. can seem daunting, but don't worry, brother.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Brighter days will come. You just have to believe that
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: there will be a day when it gets brighter and
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: not just give in to it, you know? And does
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: that help a bit?
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I am certainly trying. I've cut down a hell
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: of a lot.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's a military curse, isn't it? You know,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: we're all that generation where you joined up and everything
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: you did in service revolved around, you know, getting hammered. Yeah, yeah.
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Funny enough, the only place I never drank in the minute,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: she was in the Northern Ireland conflict. I wasn't interested.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I was getting my buzz from elsewhere, I suppose. Yes. Okay. Graham,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: what have you been up to then? You've been doing
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: some speaking.
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so obviously I teach now. I've done a few
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: public appearances. I did one the other night, which I'm
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: really enjoying at the minute.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: How does that work?
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a car story.
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: I then discussed resilience, how I got better, how the
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: audience can get better. The main effort really, I suppose,
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: is encouraging those who are struggling in the audience to
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: actually reach out for help.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: And which is this audience, mate? Sorry, I didn't quite
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: catch it.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: So the other night I gave a good talk to
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: the British Legion.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: I did know.
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: I've also spoken to teenagers as well about building resilience,
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: which will help them through life.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, mate, you're firing. Well done. Giving back is
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: an important thing as well, isn't it?
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hugely. It's part of my process, making me feel better.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. And what are your sort of plans for
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: the future? Obviously, you're overseeing these kids that have challenges.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Any plans for any other ventures other than writing books?
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: No, my main effort is my family. Second to that
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: is helping veterans. So I want to get on any
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: platform out there because I literally am so passionate about
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: helping veterans.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: If I can do it, I've saved myself, my family
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: saved me.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: Medication, et cetera.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I want people to listen to me so they can
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: help themselves.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: Not only help themselves, but help others, help family members,
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: you know, go beyond the veteran community. If someone's been
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: involved in a car crash, as an example, they're going
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: to get PTSD.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: I want to help anyone who's struggling in society. So
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: that's my aim.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: So I just accidentally flashed up my subscribe button. But
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: on that note, friends, can you like and subscribe? What
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: I found the best approach to life is watch everything, folks.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Take it all in and then use it to create
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: your holistic framework to move through life so you understand
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: different things. other than just like endless scrolling or whatever
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: it is. But I can't help you if you don't subscribe.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: So please subscribe. Graham, brilliant chat. Very proud of what
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: you've achieved, mate. And, you know, you've been in a
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: dark place. You've got yourself out of it. You've reached out,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: which is something that we all need to do. And
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: if I can be of any assistance in anything, just
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: please let me know. And good luck with the book, brother.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Chris. Thank you, dude.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're welcome. Just hold the line so I can
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: thank you properly. I'm just going to play this out.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: It will take a few seconds. But friends, like I say,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: if you can like and subscribe, that'd be awesome. Give
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: the video a like. Leave your comments below. What are
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: your experience of complex PTSD? Was it an event in childhood?
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Was it something that happened in later life? What did
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: you do? What are you doing to get over it?
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: And that's just to say, take care of yourselves. Much love.