Latest / Identity at the Center / #200 - Celebrating 200

Transcript

#200 - Celebrating 200 · Identity at the Center

• 0:00
  Hey Jim. We've got a new intro.
• 0:01
  Do you want to hear it? Let's hear it.
• 0:06
  This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I
• 0:12
  am this is the go-to podcast. So if you're a beginner or an
• 0:18
  expert or anyone in between you've found your new home
• 0:23
  welcome to Identity at the center now your host Jim
• 0:27
  McDonald and Jeff Steadman No. So, how about that?
• 0:36
  That's fancy dude. I like it.
• 0:39
  Yeah, figured, you know what? For episode 200, we start off a
• 0:42
  little bit different. We got a new intro, spent a
• 0:45
  little time on it. Spent a little money on it to
• 0:47
  play it together but I'm like, I'm pleased with the way it came
• 0:49
  out. Yeah, I just, you know, behind
• 0:53
  the curtains. How did you get it done?
• 0:56
  If I recognize that voice. Yeah, so I went on Fiverr and
• 1:01
  you know, talk with a few different people and kind of I'm
• 1:03
  looking for went through a few different revisions and settled
• 1:07
  on that. So so Keith is my guy.
• 1:10
  Yeah. And you know what I really like
• 1:11
  about it like it's punchy. He has a very clear way of
• 1:15
  speaking which I wish I did. You know he enunciates very
• 1:20
  clearly and I think the length of the intro is appropriate,
• 1:25
  right? It's not like too long.
• 1:26
  It's not too short. Perfect.
• 1:29
  Yeah you don't want something I was like you know four minutes
• 1:31
  of introduction and we went through and through A few
• 1:33
  different versions. But yeah, something I try to
• 1:36
  keep it. I've been trying to keep them
• 1:37
  under 30 seconds or so for the last couple years, so you no
• 1:41
  longer have to listen to my crappy intros.
• 1:43
  Now, we actually have a professional one.
• 1:44
  So no, no. I mean like, I like love the new
• 1:48
  intro but I want to say that the old intro was good too.
• 1:52
  I mean, I don't call a crappy. He did a great job with that.
• 1:56
  Well, maybe I should go on Pfeiffer and start doing a
• 1:59
  little side to side hustle. Yeah, exactly.
• 2:02
  So yeah. Welcome to the identity, the
• 2:04
  center podcast, I'm Jeff. That's Jim Jim.
• 2:07
  How's things going good? So I had a really interesting
• 2:13
  afternoon evening less yesterday.
• 2:15
  So I sitting on, I live in Augusta Georgia, so I was
• 2:20
  sitting on Bobby Jones Expressway, which is kind of,
• 2:22
  like, kind of a major thoroughfare returns from, like,
• 2:25
  limited-access Highway into a road with lights and I get to
• 2:31
  one light and the Police stopped traffic and they pull this thing
• 2:36
  across the road, which looks like a string basically.
• 2:42
  Like and then they wave everybody.
• 2:44
  So end up at the next light, sitting there at the next light.
• 2:48
  This car like a bad of hack flies by and it's being chased
• 2:54
  by like 20 police cars and they go into a ditch, this car goes
• 3:00
  into a ditch flies out of the ditch.
• 3:04
  Makes a turn on like the smaller Road and all the police cars
• 3:07
  like chase after them. I'm like wow that's like
• 3:10
  something you would see on the Nightly News and I just saw it
• 3:13
  in person and you know what I realized was I forgot to take
• 3:16
  out my phone and video this whole thing because that's what
• 3:19
  you're supposed to do these days, it was how we going to
• 3:22
  validate this, even happen. This isn't just a story you made
• 3:25
  up. So the only you only you know,
• 3:29
  somewhat proof that I have is that later on in the evening.
• 3:33
  Evening. There was a report that a
• 3:35
  fugitive was on the loose in our area that he ditched his car and
• 3:40
  one of the neighborhoods nearby and was like running around and
• 3:43
  supposedly armed and which I mean, I guess if you run away
• 3:49
  from the police, you ditch your car, you're probably armed.
• 3:53
  And I don't know actually if he's been caught yet but they
• 3:57
  sure do sounds like you made a getaway or something, I don't
• 4:00
  know. I can't believe what was it?
• 4:02
  Like tires. Tire spikes that they try to
• 4:05
  pull out across the road. And yeah, I'm not sure that's
• 4:09
  usually like the whole the whole time.
• 4:10
  I thought there were maybe pulling something, cause you
• 4:13
  know how they have those like counters and certain rows to try
• 4:16
  to see like, how many people are.
• 4:18
  Yeah. Driving on that road.
• 4:19
  At first, I was thinking, well, I guess is that?
• 4:22
  But it looked like, just look like a piece of string and then
• 4:27
  it's like, police officers doing it, which I thought was strange
• 4:30
  in the middle. Are these, the why are these
• 4:31
  police officers pulling string across The road that doesn't
• 4:34
  make any sense. It didn't make sense.
• 4:36
  None of it added up until I saw the guy there's like a
• 4:38
  Mitsubishi Spider as what the kind of vehicle I would say it
• 4:42
  was is gray and like it went into the ditch hard.
• 4:47
  I mean it had to be going like 40 miles an hour into the ditch
• 4:52
  and then like all the police cars were swarming but it just
• 4:56
  like kept driving and then like pulled off in this small Road.
• 4:58
  And then I mean it was a number of police cars that were chasing
• 5:02
  after him. The Geology didn't catch.
• 5:04
  Him is insane to me. Yeah that seems kind of weird.
• 5:08
  Like any helicopters. You sure - yes.
• 5:11
  So supposedly. There's a helicopter circling
• 5:14
  around the area last night. So I guess there's a lot of
• 5:19
  crime in a gust, a lot of shootings and stuff like that.
• 5:23
  I'm kind of sheltered where I live because it's like the more
• 5:27
  suburban area but I still I never see things like that.
• 5:33
  Happened. Yeah that is weird and
• 5:37
  interesting. I guess that's not you don't I
• 5:39
  guess not in a good way. No but that's easy.
• 5:43
  Par for the course. Jim is your starting off our
• 5:45
  recent episodes on somewhat of a downer.
• 5:49
  Yeah well I don't know. I mean it was kind of a I don't
• 5:52
  usually have something to spikes my adrenaline and heart rate
• 5:56
  other than going to the gym, you know.
• 5:58
  So that was that was the plus side.
• 6:00
  I plus it it get hurt or killed Also, yeah.
• 6:04
  Look here, I'm just celebrate bystander.
• 6:06
  But you didn't, you didn't have your phone.
• 6:07
  So there's no social media flavor of it, so I could throw
• 6:10
  that on LinkedIn. That would be a big hit.
• 6:13
  Yeah, I'm sure. Well, no, please don't put on
• 6:14
  LinkedIn. I hate people put like personal
• 6:17
  suffering like that. Yeah, I'm with you.
• 6:20
  Like, I don't get that. I don't really hate it.
• 6:24
  But I mean, some people feel compelled to do it and I haven't
• 6:27
  seen babies like a Serial personal life poster on
• 6:30
  LinkedIn. Oh, I you, I've seen.
• 6:33
  A bunch. I guess maybe it's just depends
• 6:34
  on the network or whatever, maybe that you're part of.
• 6:36
  But yeah, there's things on there that I see all the time.
• 6:39
  It's like, really. This is this is the place for
• 6:41
  that, that you ought to put that.
• 6:44
  How do you choose who to accept on LinkedIn and who not to?
• 6:48
  That is a great question because I get a lot, you know, lots of
• 6:53
  listeners, which are great if so what.
• 6:55
  So, if I get a message with it that says, hey, I'm a listener
• 6:58
  or whatever, I audit, that's a no-brainer, right?
• 7:01
  Of course, we're going to connect.
• 7:02
  I get a lot of Context invites as well, it's like, okay, who is
• 7:05
  this person? Why are they reaching out
• 7:07
  recruiters, you know, other technology companies?
• 7:11
  You know things like that as okay.
• 7:12
  Well, if they're in the, I am space, I might look at him and
• 7:13
  said, okay, sure, I get a awful lot of like podcast promotion
• 7:20
  people. I do not accept any of those.
• 7:22
  Like I has not, you know, I'm not, I'm not interested in that
• 7:25
  side of the world, but it seems like there must be like, some
• 7:28
  sort of like, class that gets out because I will receive Like
• 7:33
  every eight weeks, 12 weeks like 10 of them all in the same day
• 7:39
  and then I'll get like nothing for like a few weeks.
• 7:42
  And it seems to be like, there's, maybe some sort of like
• 7:44
  training course somewhere is doing to, like, help.
• 7:48
  You know, people who want to help promote podcasts or
• 7:50
  marketing or whatever, maybe least, that's my theory, it just
• 7:53
  seems very interesting. That's, it's very spiky.
• 7:56
  Nothing very spiky. Nothing and that's been a trend
• 8:00
  for, like, the last year and a half or so.
• 8:03
  Yeah I had an interesting one come up the other day where
• 8:06
  somebody could act it to me. So by the way, my attitude is
• 8:10
  all except anybody. But you know if it becomes like
• 8:16
  an ongoing series of unwanted direct messages, I just block
• 8:21
  them. But this person reach out to me
• 8:24
  connected, you know, and they were from an identity and access
• 8:28
  management technology company. And not one that I had heard of
• 8:35
  but I said very well interested in learning more, whatever is
• 8:39
  that it looks at the person's profile picture and it was like
• 8:43
  one of those perfect perfect profile pictures where I was
• 8:46
  like man I wish my profile picture was like that clear and
• 8:49
  that well framed and everything that I looked at it.
• 8:52
  I was like it kind of looks like there's like something like over
• 8:57
  her chin. So I clicked into it further and
• 9:00
  it was a watermark Like a stock photo site I'm like no, no,
• 9:06
  that's that's total garbage man. Like really especially for an I
• 9:11
  am technology Product Company to have somebody out there using a
• 9:16
  stock photo and it was supposedly like they're their VP
• 9:20
  of strategy or something. I was like that is weak sauce
• 9:23
  man. I get the occasional fake
• 9:25
  profile where it's clearly not a real person.
• 9:27
  It's like, oh here's this person's background there and
• 9:30
  they start. I'm in identity and then you
• 9:32
  look at that like their job history it's like I was a
• 9:35
  programmer and then I was like Chief marketing.
• 9:38
  It's and there's like the the work history and all the details
• 9:43
  around it. Don't make any sense whatsoever.
• 9:46
  Everything conflicts with everything else.
• 9:47
  There's clearly no Direction there.
• 9:49
  And it's just like a profile that was put together to harness
• 9:53
  as many keywords for searches as possible.
• 9:56
  Yeah, yeah. That's bad.
• 9:58
  That's bad. So, I don't know if it's as bad
• 9:59
  as a watermark on here. And picture.
• 10:02
  That's, that's pretty bad too. Yeah, I think like if I'd gotten
• 10:05
  that, it was somebody who was like, just trying to sell, you
• 10:09
  know, hey Will promote your podcast, or we're search engine
• 10:12
  optimization. Then it would kind of go with
• 10:15
  it, but that they were actually like, hey, we've got the best.
• 10:19
  I am provisioning tool etcetera. Etc.
• 10:22
  That to me was like, now you can't have a stock photo.
• 10:27
  Yeah. Well, stock photos, bad
• 10:28
  regardless. I mean the opens up so many
• 10:31
  questions I mean white, you know, tal licensing.
• 10:36
  Yeah. Well that's enough, I guess the
• 10:38
  all stuff that I think about right when you put out episodes,
• 10:40
  it's okay. Well, my getting like a
• 10:41
  copyright strike honest. We don't, you can't use, you
• 10:43
  know, commercial stuff, it's just a two of us.
• 10:46
  So it's not like, you know, we have all this, you know,
• 10:50
  protection for Mike a brand perspective.
• 10:51
  Some very careful about our stuff gets out there so that we
• 10:55
  avoid any issues. That's how Make it to episode
• 10:58
  200, man. You can't just like roll out of
• 11:01
  bed and beyond episode 200. Yeah, episode 200, man, this is
• 11:05
  a pretty pretty big milestone for us.
• 11:07
  We're actually talking Milestones before we hit record
• 11:09
  here and I feel like every 100 episodes is a milestone, there's
• 11:14
  clearly bigger ones like 500 1000.
• 11:17
  If we ever make it to that like that kind of thing.
• 11:18
  But I still feel like every hundred is still a pretty
• 11:21
  significant Milestone, especially if you consider the
• 11:25
  vast majority of podcasts never. Make it past episode 7.
• 11:28
  And here, we are in number 200. Yeah.
• 11:32
  You know I and I think it's like a natural 200 because I like to
• 11:36
  say we've done an episode every Monday for the past three and a
• 11:40
  half years and it's not exactly true.
• 11:43
  Right. Like over Christmas, we take a
• 11:45
  break and then we've, you know, certain conferences will go to
• 11:50
  would do like four or five episodes while we're there and
• 11:54
  we're not going to stagger those out over the next four or five.
• 11:57
  X. We do a burst of three to five
• 11:59
  episodes of the week, but what I mean by its natural.
• 12:03
  It's like we're not taking episode a recording and chopping
• 12:06
  it up into three parts. Typically I'd say the most we've
• 12:10
  recorded was like two episodes of one day.
• 12:12
  I don't think we've ever recorded three in one day so
• 12:16
  it's not like we're doing things to choose that number.
• 12:20
  Yeah, 191 and a half weeks since the podcast started, which I
• 12:27
  think our first original recording was June 20th and
• 12:30
  we're going to play some clips later of some of the shows that
• 12:33
  I think, you know, you and I have liked over the over the
• 12:35
  last couple years, I was debating on episode one and it's
• 12:38
  just so bad from a nautical active, but I couldn't bring
• 12:43
  myself to like, make a clip out of it.
• 12:45
  If you want to go, listen to it. Great.
• 12:46
  I think the content is good, but I think we are clearly the first
• 12:51
  time we've ever done. It didn't know what we were
• 12:53
  doing and still kind of figuring it out.
• 12:54
  And again, 200 episodes later, We're still kind of figure.
• 12:58
  It's like a lot, but I feel like we have gotten a little bit
• 13:00
  better, you know, certain aspects of things.
• 13:02
  But yeah, 191 and a half weeks and we've put out 200 episodes.
• 13:06
  So we're averaging, you know, just over one episode every
• 13:10
  week, which I think is pretty impressive.
• 13:11
  Considering this isn't even our day job, right?
• 13:13
  This is something we do on the side For the Love of the Game.
• 13:16
  We're not sponsored, we don't run commercials right occasion
• 13:19
  will get support from the companies that we've worked
• 13:21
  with, you know, over the last couple of years.
• 13:23
  But for the most part, when people, when people hear and
• 13:26
  see, The identity Center podcast.
• 13:28
  It's you and me, you handle all the booking and sort of getting
• 13:31
  together. You know what?
• 13:32
  The topics are the shows are going to be about, and I handle
• 13:35
  kind of all the back end stuff and web, and editing, and things
• 13:38
  like that. Yeah.
• 13:39
  And, you know, you and I met working at it.
• 13:43
  Atrophy, we work very closely together and grew into a
• 13:46
  friendship and we thought, hey, why don't we come up with a
• 13:50
  podcast? And honestly, I think of the 200
• 13:53
  episodes. Well, 199 going into Today, I
• 13:58
  haven't listened to many of them, you know, I'm there for
• 14:00
  the record are there for the and I think you probably listen to
• 14:03
  all of them, but I've listened to hardly any of them.
• 14:07
  And I actually the other day, listen to episode 199 with Sarah
• 14:12
  and like, you know, this isn't half bad.
• 14:16
  It's actually a pretty good podcast we put out.
• 14:19
  Yeah, no, I think it's, I think it's, I think, this is something
• 14:23
  that most people struggle with is hearing their own voice.
• 14:25
  I certainly didn't. Yeah, I mean I was there I don't
• 14:28
  necessarily need to listen to that episode, but I hear it
• 14:31
  naturally. As part of the editing process
• 14:33
  and trying to make make things go well, but yeah, I think, you
• 14:36
  know what, I think we've done all right for, you know, a
• 14:38
  two-man show for the last couple of years.
• 14:41
  I'm looking forward to another, you know, 200 episodes at least.
• 14:45
  Do you remember the first question you asked me when we
• 14:48
  first met at I'd entropy, I remember it very clearly because
• 14:51
  we were in Las Vegas. No, I don't remember.
• 14:55
  It's a very Jim question. Do you like baseball?
• 14:59
  Absolutely. That was the first question and
• 15:02
  I was like, not really I kind of follow the Cubs B, it and then
• 15:05
  you just kind of like walked away.
• 15:10
  I've no, I've no use for the sky.
• 15:12
  Yeah, exactly. We was some dinner that we were
• 15:14
  doing. I think, probably for, I could
• 15:16
  entropy customers or something like that.
• 15:17
  And that was the first time we had met face-to-face.
• 15:21
  I think we had been on the phone a few times.
• 15:23
  For that. But yeah, that was like our
• 15:25
  first introduction and who would have thought I guess that would
• 15:28
  have been what seven or eight years ago now you know, here we
• 15:31
  are still working together, certainly The Odd Couple, you
• 15:36
  know, I don't think we could be really any more different and a
• 15:39
  lot of different areas but it certainly Works.
• 15:42
  Our friend, Jody calls us, the identity mullet.
• 15:46
  I'm the business up front, you're the party in the back,
• 15:51
  but yeah, it's worth. Act and hey man.
• 15:54
  Cheers to us for 200 episodes. Yeah.
• 15:57
  Yeah, Joe is a great person and I remember working with her
• 16:01
  organization and it was like one of those ones that prove that
• 16:06
  every different. Advisory you go into Yeager to
• 16:11
  see some things that are saying but there's always something
• 16:13
  that's different and actually that one had a lot that was
• 16:15
  different because they didn't run active directory and it's
• 16:20
  like that's almost like the first box you could check with
• 16:23
  Every company on their internal. I am they've got an active
• 16:27
  directory and this program did Samba right?
• 16:30
  I think it was Samba. I was my first introduction to
• 16:33
  some like really getting into into more detail on Saba and
• 16:36
  it's still the only time I've seen Samba and any Enterprise
• 16:39
  ever worked with. Yeah, I remember them telling us
• 16:41
  that they were like the biggest user of Samba, like they
• 16:45
  contribute to the open source, whatever it is exactly cool.
• 16:50
  So what's changed in the last couple of Of years.
• 16:53
  I mean, I feel like 200 episodes.
• 16:54
  We, you know, there's been what changes and presidents and
• 16:58
  health, what else? Yeah, well I think, I mean, it
• 17:02
  would be hard to ignore the fact that we went through this big
• 17:06
  Global pandemic. Trying to think what to start
• 17:11
  like March 2020, right? Yeah, we were here before it and
• 17:14
  we're here after it because we certainly hope.
• 17:17
  Thank goodness. Yeah, both literally and
• 17:21
  figuratively. That mean I think that's
• 17:25
  probably one of the biggest things that happened in our
• 17:27
  career. It happened right in the middle
• 17:29
  of the life of the podcast. So here's one thing that I
• 17:32
  remember was we are growing our listenership like crazy.
• 17:37
  Like I think in the beginning, like our first let us call it 15
• 17:41
  20 episodes. It was like it wasn't growing
• 17:44
  too fast. That all of a sudden it was
• 17:45
  like, whoa, It's people must be listening to this podcast on
• 17:49
  their way to work and then the global pandemic 8 And it's like,
• 17:54
  oh we're back to like where we were the first few episodes.
• 17:58
  Like people stop listening but then it's growing back and then
• 18:01
  some obviously since then. But yeah, I I always wonder
• 18:06
  where people listen to the podcast.
• 18:09
  Like, what are they doing? They like mowing the lawn and
• 18:12
  listening to it, you know, in their car, putting their kid to
• 18:17
  sleep. Try to get everyone to fall
• 18:21
  asleep. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:22
  Most people, I talked to, they are listening to on commutes or
• 18:26
  walks or, or stuff like that, that they're kind of doing, you
• 18:29
  know, that sort of thing. So I think, yeah, it's been an
• 18:33
  interesting climb. It's been a slow climb, but
• 18:36
  that's I think not somewhat by Design, but as a result of,
• 18:40
  yeah, we don't really market, right?
• 18:42
  It's just, here's the content. If you like it, share it, if you
• 18:45
  don't, okay? But we share it anyway, right?
• 18:48
  Just set it out to an enemy. I don't care, right.
• 18:50
  And I think that's just kind of Of How It's grown.
• 18:53
  And, you know, we've talked, we've made a lot of great
• 18:55
  relationships in the industry and we've certainly, you know,
• 18:58
  covered a lot of conferences and things like that.
• 19:02
  And I think people started to take notice about that
• 19:05
  obviously, Gartner's, a big one, right?
• 19:06
  We were there, sort of unofficially last year and now
• 19:09
  we're going to be there officially you know, on the
• 19:11
  stage interviewing Henry K and Becky in a couple weeks and I
• 19:15
  think that's pretty amazing for, you know, for not having you
• 19:19
  know this this marketing machine sort of behind it is just
• 19:21
  literally just two of us and Power of our listeners really
• 19:25
  tuning in every week and that's super cool.
• 19:27
  And I'm super grateful and thankful for all that stuff
• 19:30
  because that just it's not lost on me every week that you know
• 19:33
  there are thousands of people who you know literally listen to
• 19:36
  us you know all the time and all the great guest that we bring in
• 19:39
  and people have been you know I would say what 99.9 percent
• 19:44
  supportive and we get nothing but content or good.
• 19:47
  Good feedback from folks who reach out.
• 19:50
  Yeah you can't you can't sell short the You know, the
• 19:53
  listeners sharing it telling people to listen and commenting
• 19:57
  on our post because I mean, otherwise it really wouldn't go
• 20:01
  anywhere. We can, you know, we don't have
• 20:03
  a marketing budget and even if we did, I don't think that's
• 20:06
  respected. All in the intro.
• 20:08
  It wasn't all the intro. Yeah, there you go.
• 20:11
  Yeah. So today's episode is we kind of
• 20:14
  like I think a little bit of a retrospective of kind of where
• 20:17
  we've been. I know that we're going to talk
• 20:19
  a few different clips here. I did want to bring up.
• 20:22
  Something that is relatively timely.
• 20:24
  So it's today is Sunday February 19th.
• 20:28
  You and I were recording this in the morning as I've been
• 20:31
  traveling all week and just got back yesterday in.
• 20:35
  This is a topic that you and I were going to talk about anyway.
• 20:39
  And then, I saw a post from Michael Freeman on LinkedIn.
• 20:42
  Wanting to know what our thoughts are on Twitter charging
• 20:46
  for SMS MFA. And I have some thoughts.
• 20:51
  Do you want to go first, you want to hear my thoughts first?
• 20:54
  Um, yeah, I'll go first because I think this is something I've
• 20:56
  been thinking about really all week since I heard the news and
• 21:01
  I'm a little bit divided. And here's my, here's my
• 21:06
  thoughts. So for those who people who are
• 21:09
  not aware Twitter is going to start disabling SMS as an MFA
• 21:15
  option for people who have not subscribed, Ribbed to Twitter's
• 21:19
  blue service, which is essentially, their monthly paid
• 21:22
  subscription where you basically pay the month to get a couple
• 21:25
  extra features. One of those new features is
• 21:27
  going to be the continuing allowance to use SMS as an MFA.
• 21:32
  You can still use the authenticator app or there was
• 21:38
  another option of, you know, security key or something like
• 21:40
  that for MFA. If you are a non-paying user but
• 21:44
  if you but the option for SMS will be removed.
• 21:48
  Some time in the Your futures what it sounded like?
• 21:52
  I don't think that that is a very pro-consumer change that in
• 21:56
  the least. I think the way that they're
• 21:59
  approaching this is essentially going to be okay you're not
• 22:01
  paying or just going to turn off MFA or second factor for you and
• 22:05
  now you're just back to ID and password that is terrible from a
• 22:10
  strategy perspective for protecting your customer
• 22:13
  accounts. And I think this is a money grab
• 22:17
  for, from E1. I think he He did not want to
• 22:19
  buy the company for forty four billion dollars or whatever it
• 22:21
  was tried to get out of it for months, essentially realize he
• 22:25
  had no case and had to buy it. And, you know, they're there
• 22:30
  that that investment has not paid off to date with a lot of
• 22:34
  things have been happening and he's doing everything he can to
• 22:37
  get more money out of things to cut costs.
• 22:40
  And I think this is just a terrible move and doesn't make
• 22:45
  any sense from a From a security of her from the user expected.
• 22:52
  That's it. I mean I think it's I purely
• 22:54
  think this is a money grab and it's not thought out like a lot
• 22:57
  of things. You said your divided on it.
• 22:59
  I am because I think here's and that's that's that's my, I
• 23:03
  guess, my negative opinions, the positive opinions.
• 23:06
  I think, I think it's great to try to move people off of SMS or
• 23:10
  email MFA because of course, they are not the most secure
• 23:13
  things in the world. They are certainly the lowest I
• 23:17
  would say of the MFA Is that are out there but they are still
• 23:21
  better than nothing and it will help you know, the average
• 23:24
  person better secure their access.
• 23:27
  So I get wanting to move the bar and sort of, you know, Force
• 23:32
  change. But I do not think that this is
• 23:34
  the intent behind it. I I totally think that this is a
• 23:38
  money. Grab a, cost-saving grab.
• 23:41
  And I'll actually liken it to Teslas, full self-driving.
• 23:45
  Everyone knows I love Tesla. I love my tough.
• 23:48
  I have to now. I'm a big fan of the vehicles
• 23:51
  and electric vehicles in general.
• 23:53
  But I will tell you right now, Tesla full service are full.
• 23:57
  Self-driving is kind of what they've put out there is 100%
• 24:01
  not ready to be used in the real world and that has been
• 24:06
  recalled. It's a software update, which is
• 24:08
  kind of an interesting way to have a, do a recall, but it is
• 24:11
  not safe for most people to be using and is not the right way
• 24:15
  to do it. And I see this as the same type
• 24:17
  of approach, where You know, they're basically trying to
• 24:20
  force a change before. People are ready and despite the
• 24:24
  safety risks. All right, so I want to verify a
• 24:30
  fact before I make my opinion. They're disabling SMS for non
• 24:37
  paid subscribers, but you still can do MFA with a yubikey or the
• 24:43
  authenticator app? Yes, I've got.
• 24:47
  I don't have a problem with it. Here's why is that?
• 24:50
  They're actually making the better option.
• 24:53
  Free. And that's also there already,
• 24:56
  you can do that today. That's not regulation.
• 24:58
  Well, that's free for take away the the Lesser option, which by
• 25:03
  the way they have to Hey, you can call a fraction of a penny
• 25:06
  to send us a mess. It's a worse option from a
• 25:09
  security standpoint and I think almost nobody should pay for
• 25:15
  this all right no one's going to know what they like.
• 25:17
  All right. Well you know because it sounds
• 25:19
  like if you pay the 895 for the blue check you get it.
• 25:24
  If you don't pay the 895, would you pay something just have SMS
• 25:28
  rather than use the authenticator app?
• 25:30
  I think the answer is no and I think a lot of company so the
• 25:33
  problem That I think you have is that they're taking away this
• 25:36
  feature. If they never had the future, it
• 25:39
  would be a non-story, right? Because I think there are
• 25:43
  Services out there today that don't have SMS capability,
• 25:46
  right? It's authenticator app or
• 25:48
  nothing, I mean. but if I haven't worked for a company
• 25:53
  that allowed SMS for logging in to the corporate Network, Yeah,
• 25:59
  I think that time that I guess the problem that I have with it
• 26:02
  is what do you think the common person is going to do?
• 26:06
  Do you think they're going to go through the steps of saying, oh
• 26:09
  I'm going to have to go and set up a Microsoft or Google or you
• 26:14
  know, offi authenticator app automatically just kind of do
• 26:18
  it. I just don't see that happening.
• 26:19
  I think what's going to happen is the people who have SMS
• 26:23
  turned on today, they're gonna all of a sudden, not have it.
• 26:26
  And I'm sure there will be like email announcement.
• 26:28
  Send whatever may be right to kind of go out, but I think the
• 26:31
  vast majority population is going to wake up one day and
• 26:34
  just not have SMS, not have any MFA on their account.
• 26:38
  And what do people do, they reuse passwords?
• 26:40
  And all of a sudden you're going to see this uptick and things
• 26:43
  and then it will be oh well should I do this?
• 26:45
  Go of course they should go and change to the fennek.
• 26:47
  A wrap ideas, don't think the average person is going to
• 26:50
  proactively do that, but I'm going to argue with your point
• 26:54
  about it being a money grab because if it was money grab
• 26:58
  would actually I have to be something that people would pay
• 27:00
  for. I don't know how we're gonna pay
• 27:02
  for this. No.
• 27:03
  And I think I think it's a cost-saving grab first, but in
• 27:06
  order to recoup it they you know, they've started to now you
• 27:10
  can become blue check certified, or whatever, right through
• 27:12
  subscription, which is a whole other thing.
• 27:15
  It is it is this is not a move that is meant to improve or
• 27:20
  improve security. This is a move to cut costs.
• 27:24
  And the way I see it MFA is table Stakes for any consumer
• 27:28
  facing service is you should build this into the product that
• 27:32
  you're delivering. You should have MFA options.
• 27:35
  Now, if you started without SMS MFA and there's plenty of
• 27:38
  companies, right? They do email Magic, Winx things
• 27:40
  like that, an email isn't the best option either, but I feel
• 27:44
  like if you start with one thing and then you pull it away later,
• 27:50
  I think that opens a lot more opportunity for things to happen
• 27:54
  in a negative aspect. I just don't think most of the
• 27:57
  profit. I don't have a problem.
• 27:58
  The actual switch, it's the way they're doing it.
• 28:01
  And just the fact that I think I don't think most people will go
• 28:07
  through the effort of setting up another new MFA.
• 28:10
  They already hate most people already hate authentication as
• 28:12
  it is. Yeah, you know, I first heard
• 28:16
  about the story I only got at the headline level and I thought
• 28:20
  there was just taking a multi-factor authentication for
• 28:22
  everybody and I was like, You know, more leaning towards the -
• 28:27
  I was like, that's horrible. But I was also like, it's kind
• 28:31
  of a interesting experiment because I wonder how many people
• 28:35
  will put a value on having their authentication were secured.
• 28:40
  Like, well, thousands of people wind up paying a dollar a month
• 28:45
  for SMS or 44. MFA, that would be really
• 28:50
  interesting data to have. I still wouldn't think it was a
• 28:53
  good idea at the Level of, okay? If you have my account and you
• 28:57
  have my password and, you know, it's just look a greater chance
• 29:02
  of my account being breached or your etc etc.
• 29:07
  But at the same time I thought it would be interesting
• 29:10
  experiment. Now that I understand that they
• 29:12
  actually are you know, basically saying okay we're going to
• 29:16
  monetize or you have to pay for a lesser form of security than
• 29:21
  what we offer for free. I have action.
• 29:24
  Absolutely no problem with it. I mean I think it's on par with
• 29:30
  deprecating SMS as a form of MFA which I think is would be a
• 29:35
  great move. I'm in favor of getting rid of
• 29:39
  it. I just don't think it's the
• 29:40
  right way to do it. I don't see Twitter as like the,
• 29:44
  you know, the altruist, a team of security agents of Hope and,
• 29:48
  you know, of do the right thing with all the other issues that
• 29:51
  they've been having, you know, recently.
• 29:52
  But I just don't think this is the right way to do it.
• 29:55
  It's interesting. So I listen to A podcast called
• 29:59
  Lenny's podcasts. And I'm not going to remember
• 30:01
  which episode it was. It's one of the top podcast in
• 30:05
  the world. Like, remember you had that
• 30:07
  like, that website, that kind of said, are you?
• 30:10
  Here's where podcast Rank and identity to Center was one of
• 30:14
  the few. I am podcast that was in the top
• 30:17
  five percent. Think there's one other one that
• 30:19
  I saw which was vittorio's. Anyway, there are other podcasts
• 30:23
  Tyler's do that. We're in like the top one
• 30:25
  percent like the I listened to one called the Bronx Pinstripes
• 30:29
  which is about the Yankees and then she Lenny's podcast which
• 30:32
  was like in the top point one percent of all podcast and I
• 30:36
  mean this guy does like a really good podcast and has on its
• 30:41
  focus on like project product managers, mostly from tech
• 30:45
  company. So like the product manager from
• 30:47
  Uber or the product manager from notion or something like that.
• 30:52
  So he had a guy who was either a current product manager or past
• 30:56
  product manager And he was talking about layoffs and like
• 31:02
  is like as long as I don't even know if it was at the point
• 31:05
  where Twitter announced layoffs. But other companies were
• 31:08
  announcing some layoffs and like whether you like it or not it's
• 31:13
  going to improve the company's bottom line.
• 31:15
  Third to be a more successful company because they do these
• 31:18
  layoffs and that might hurt to hear but you know, he's looking
• 31:22
  at it from the standpoint of he was involved with like layoffs
• 31:25
  at a lot of different companies that have done.
• 31:27
  Research on it. And it's like you know that's
• 31:31
  usually what happens with companies is that they have
• 31:33
  better numbers after they go through these layoffs.
• 31:37
  Oh yeah, you're cutting costs bad guy, right?
• 31:39
  That's the business side of it. I just if you're looking to cut
• 31:43
  costs, I don't know if security is the way that I would do it.
• 31:47
  Yeah, the security of your user, especially when your product is
• 31:51
  your users, right? You're trying to sell
• 31:53
  advertising. Now, what happens when you've
• 31:54
  got, you know, that's the thing. That's so compromised.
• 31:57
  That was my point on like, or I don't know if the point that I
• 32:01
  raised it all yet, but We, I think they're trying to take
• 32:08
  Twitter move away from The Advertiser base model.
• 32:12
  Well, they're trying to diversify for sure.
• 32:14
  I mean I think any you know any company doesn't want to be 100%
• 32:17
  dependent on any one Revenue stream right?
• 32:19
  Everybody does that. So yes they were very heavy and
• 32:22
  advertising, they've tried to dabble with Mark, you know
• 32:24
  subscription in the past. I get that right.
• 32:27
  You want to monetize essentially your your most engaged users,
• 32:32
  right? Twitter, blue or whatever.
• 32:34
  They're calling it for the subscription side of things is
• 32:36
  not going to be something that 80% of their subscribe, you
• 32:39
  know, of their users use, it'll probably be.
• 32:41
  More like 1% 5%, something like that.
• 32:44
  The whales right? It's very similar to Mobile
• 32:47
  gaming free-to-play gaming, things like that, you're not
• 32:50
  targeting, you know. You're building a mechanism to
• 32:53
  Target the whales the ones who will spend 1000 2000, 3000
• 32:56
  dollars on a game. Not the ones that will never
• 32:59
  spend a dime on it. It's the same thing on a
• 33:01
  subscription service, there's a lot of free trials out there
• 33:05
  that are limited and that might be good enough you know, for 80%
• 33:09
  the 20% is where you're going to make your money and Diversifying
• 33:12
  where you have a subscription Revenue, you've got ad Revenue,
• 33:15
  totally makes sense. You know, they're of course,
• 33:17
  there's other features being part of Twitter blew, right?
• 33:20
  Longer posts you can edit posts or delete posts, right?
• 33:22
  Stuff like that. I just, I just don't feel like
• 33:27
  the security aspect of it is where that you is, where you go
• 33:30
  to make the costs or make make the, you know, to cut costs,
• 33:35
  right. But I think he's, I think he's
• 33:38
  improving the security so if he In improving the security, then
• 33:44
  I would agree. How is it improving security,
• 33:46
  though? Because the IMF, they're pushing
• 33:50
  people, who still want to choose, I bet you there's like a
• 33:54
  large percentage of Twitter users are just username
• 33:57
  password, no SMS. So, do I think more people are
• 34:01
  going to go from SMS to username password or more people go from
• 34:05
  SMS to authenticator app. I think it's gonna be more
• 34:09
  people move to authenticator app.
• 34:11
  But see I think the opposite, I think a lot of people just won't
• 34:15
  do anything at all. Until they're forced to change.
• 34:20
  I don't think turning off a security feature, is the way to
• 34:24
  force the change. I think you do it with a rollout
• 34:27
  and an incentive program and communication and tons of lead
• 34:33
  time to get people and you nag them through email or whatever,
• 34:36
  maybe I don't think pulling it out in a month.
• 34:39
  Two weeks, whatever the time frame is is the right way.
• 34:42
  When you're talking about a service that has how many
• 34:44
  millions or billions of users on it?
• 34:46
  I just feel like of the percentages.
• 34:48
  I think a very small, Percentage will do it in the first.
• 34:53
  Let's call it month even, right? Maybe they only log in once a
• 34:55
  month, to check it. And the meantime, you're gonna
• 34:57
  have a whole bunch of accounts, they're going to be totally
• 34:59
  susceptible to password spray attacks, whatever may be, and
• 35:04
  then they're going to get compromised and then those
• 35:06
  people aren't going to be able to actually set up their MFA.
• 35:08
  They're going to set it up, whoever's crack their account
• 35:10
  right here to sell it or do stupid things with it, or
• 35:12
  whatever it may be. You know, by the way, the reason
• 35:15
  I brought the layoffs was as actually a side topic because
• 35:20
  they think that you felt we were getting too positive.
• 35:23
  No, no, no. Yeah, that's me.
• 35:27
  No, because they think that when Ilan bought the company, He went
• 35:33
  out and laid people off, it became a very public thing.
• 35:36
  You know. It's almost like the way it was
• 35:38
  handled was very like, you know, just not very nice and there was
• 35:47
  that and then he became very active voice on social issues
• 35:51
  and and got into very political topics.
• 35:55
  And so then there was what we have to get off for a lot of
• 35:59
  people, we had to get off the Twitter.
• 36:01
  What's this Macedon thing? And then like, for me I was
• 36:05
  like, what is he? Like I'm doing you just spent
• 36:08
  forty billion dollars on this company, and now, like and we
• 36:10
  need to seems like what he's trying to do is like drive it
• 36:13
  into non-existence. I don't think that was his goal
• 36:18
  because now he's gotten, he's, he doesn't do this thing's,
• 36:22
  right? There's the last that kind of
• 36:24
  Happiness been in the past. He's not going out there and
• 36:27
  making these statements this much and Look the new Cycles are
• 36:32
  just so fast these days that it's like they've gone up to
• 36:36
  Macedon I think and it's like it's not as good.
• 36:40
  Like there's not the base of people there.
• 36:42
  So it's kind of like, okay, well, You know, everybody's back
• 36:46
  to Twitter. Well, that's where the users are
• 36:48
  anything, you know? There were certainly a spike
• 36:50
  where people moved over to Mastodon towards like the end of
• 36:53
  next year but that has certainly trailed off it has slowed
• 36:56
  significantly. I think any competing social
• 36:58
  network where Twitter users were fleeing to.
• 37:01
  That's been sort of like the trend is, we don't like where
• 37:04
  things are going, let's go find something new.
• 37:06
  They go there and then they sort of Trail off, right?
• 37:09
  The growth doesn't keep up with that spike in demand.
• 37:12
  You know, we're I created a mastodon account for us.
• 37:15
  Over the over, the Christmas break here over 20 22 and it's
• 37:19
  fine. My problems with it aren't
• 37:21
  necessarily the functionality. I think it's actually better
• 37:25
  functionality. What Twitter has that a there
• 37:27
  aren't as there aren't, you know, character, length limits?
• 37:30
  So I can put as much things as I want.
• 37:31
  Their, my problems with Mastodon are two things one.
• 37:35
  There's not as many users there. So people don't have many
• 37:37
  accounts, so it's the distance. So the reach isn't what it is.
• 37:40
  On the Twitter side, but that makes sense.
• 37:42
  Right? There are relatively new
• 37:43
  compared to our Twitter's bed. And second is the whole this
• 37:47
  idea of the Federate Federated identity servers and things like
• 37:51
  that. Finding people is a challenge
• 37:54
  because you know, I say the Seedy underbelly of the pockets
• 37:57
  of universes like we're at idac podcast at infosec dot exchange
• 38:02
  there. Very well, could be another at
• 38:04
  idac podcast at some other server.
• 38:08
  How do you know which is the real one?
• 38:11
  And that's the challenge that I have a is you know the that
• 38:14
  identity validation or verification takes place a still
• 38:17
  think, still needs to be worked out.
• 38:19
  I'm not going to go off and create idac podcast at every
• 38:22
  single Mass on server because literally anybody can start one
• 38:24
  like the just doesn't make sense.
• 38:27
  So how do you make sure that you're following the right
• 38:29
  account? And that's the challenge that I
• 38:31
  have of Macedon. Sounds confusing?
• 38:34
  Yeah, but I like the product products find, I mean, it works.
• 38:37
  Its functional can put my videos and and put my, my she may show
• 38:43
  announcements and things like that on there.
• 38:44
  I don't have to figure out how to fit it within a certain, you
• 38:47
  know, character limit that you know, that Twitter has you had
• 38:49
  never liked the character limit. Yeah.
• 38:51
  Well, if you want to, you can become a subscriber and you can
• 38:54
  post a long form and you can pay Twitter, X dollars a month and
• 38:56
  you can do it. Yeah, I haven't been on Twitter
• 38:59
  and in years I mean I accidentally clicked like every
• 39:03
  once in a while like we're living our profile try like
• 39:06
  media person. I think LinkedIn is probably
• 39:07
  your primary one, right? Definitely.
• 39:10
  Definitely. And that's the same thing for
• 39:11
  me. I mean, the only time I go on
• 39:12
  social media really is for the podcast type stuff.
• 39:14
  Or if there's something maybe at work related, that kind of thing
• 39:17
  and you and I think we get the vast majority of our engagement
• 39:21
  comes on LinkedIn anyway. And that's why I try to keep
• 39:22
  LinkedIn clean from a you know, from a Content perspective, I
• 39:27
  hear there's a post about identity and access management
• 39:30
  Or something related, hopefully or the podcast right?
• 39:32
  That kind of thing. Right.
• 39:34
  Right definitely true. So what does it sounds like plan
• 39:38
  for this episode? What's that?
• 39:40
  What else do we have planned for this episode?
• 39:42
  Yeah, we're going to let's work through a couple different clips
• 39:45
  here. Let's see, let's start with
• 39:50
  number 91, he recanted you want to, don't you reckon play the
• 39:54
  clip from episode one, huh? No, I'm not gonna.
• 39:58
  It's it just makes my ears Grinch if you, if you want to
• 40:01
  listen to it. You're not taking it down, it's
• 40:03
  still out there, right? It's a time capsule as we've
• 40:05
  said all along right episode 1, the content I think is good.
• 40:09
  Do I think it's our best episode ever know because it was our
• 40:12
  first episode, we had no idea what we're doing.
• 40:14
  I certainly didn't know what I was doing from an editing.
• 40:16
  My voice is very Echoey animal is a silver, emotional season, 2
• 40:20
  episode. It's number two, number two, I
• 40:23
  think that's the great thing about this podcast is you don't
• 40:24
  have to like start from the beginning.
• 40:26
  A lot of people will start. They either start with 101 which
• 40:30
  is Sarah such as chickadee when we talk about AWS Cognito and ID
• 40:35
  Pro, or they start with one and I wonder if at some point, is it
• 40:38
  go in the future? If 201 or 200 will be one that
• 40:42
  people start with? They don't go all the way back
• 40:44
  in time, then maybe pick kind of spot, but all of our episodes
• 40:47
  are You know individual topics self-contained.
• 40:50
  It's not like you need to be listening episode 1.
• 40:52
  You know, we're not a Serial. Yeah, that where you have to
• 40:55
  like know the backstory we're talking about identity, we're
• 40:58
  not we're not surprising anybody so you could just go backwards.
• 41:01
  Start at the top and work your way backwards.
• 41:03
  Yeah. Good.
• 41:04
  Yeah. Please do please.
• 41:05
  Listen to all of them. That's great.
• 41:09
  Do you want to start? Let's start with Erik Anderson.
• 41:11
  I think he's one of your nice favorite guests.
• 41:13
  We've had and we've met him a couple times now at a couple
• 41:15
  different conferences. Do you want to preview episode?
• 41:18
  Anyone you want me to just play the clip?
• 41:20
  Let's just play the clip and we'll talk about it.
• 41:22
  I mean the fact that Eric is the C so at Adobe.
• 41:27
  Okay, so here it is. So for us are zero trust
• 41:31
  program, we dubbed it then at the beginning as an acronym for
• 41:35
  zero, trust Enterprise Network we started looking at zero trust
• 41:41
  about three years ago now, Google was starting to advertise
• 41:44
  and talk a lot about their program.
• 41:46
  We had met with some of our Their peer companies about what
• 41:49
  they were looking at in the field.
• 41:52
  We were very excited about the idea and how we could do it.
• 41:57
  And at the time, there wasn't a single vendor solution to do it.
• 42:03
  So we started looking at trying to figure out what are the base
• 42:07
  pieces, you needed to make zero trust work.
• 42:09
  How could we leverage our existing Investments and what
• 42:13
  were the little pieces we needed?
• 42:15
  So we took that to heart and started working with our
• 42:19
  existing companies vendors that we are working with with and
• 42:23
  figuring out how could we start stitching stuff together and the
• 42:25
  Mantra was deliver something quickly using existing
• 42:29
  technology and minimize our investment.
• 42:32
  So it really caused us to be super creative, reach out and
• 42:36
  extend and use the Partnerships. We had across the industry and
• 42:41
  we wound up in mid-summer 2018 launching our first kind of
• 42:47
  version of zero trust and one of the mantras that we had with it
• 42:51
  was we wanted an easier and a better user experience while
• 42:57
  increasing security which I think is a lot of the Mantra 10,
• 42:59
  press delivers. One of the few chances you get
• 43:02
  to actually make things more secure with making user
• 43:04
  experience better and so we've been piloting it and playing
• 43:07
  around with it and then we acquired a couple companies that
• 43:11
  summer and they had some Employees are locations that we
• 43:17
  weren't too enthusiastic about linking up the networks and the
• 43:21
  data centers together. So we decided as a perfect
• 43:24
  Pilots, if he could, we at scale, deploys are on trust.
• 43:28
  Normally, when you onboard a new employee from an acquisition,
• 43:32
  you would go in and do a touch and connect them through VPN and
• 43:36
  onto the networks. And in this case, we decided
• 43:38
  let's deploy. Our certificates are zero.
• 43:41
  Trust is based on certificate. Authentication and device scores
• 43:45
  on that front and get them access to what they needed
• 43:46
  without needing VPS. And it was super successful.
• 43:52
  It allowed us to go from about 50 users to 1,000 users in less
• 43:59
  than a month and then it took off from there.
• 44:03
  So that was Eric talking about his zero, trust journey and
• 44:07
  stinks. I think still one of the few
• 44:09
  organizations that I've taught you that actually was ahead of
• 44:11
  the curve on it. It's actually doing it pretty
• 44:13
  well in real life. What do you think?
• 44:16
  I think for playing 20 trust, drinking game, we'd be in big
• 44:21
  trouble now but now I mean, Eric's just such a bright guy
• 44:26
  and I think He typifies cisos in that break out.
• 44:33
  A lot of Industry experience who's now dedicating all of his
• 44:37
  work life to the betterment of his company and a couple things
• 44:43
  I took away from there was you know he wants to your leverage a
• 44:48
  lot of the existing technology that he is companies already
• 44:52
  invested in. I think that's a big factor that
• 44:56
  we take into account when we do. Strategy advisory is like, okay,
• 45:01
  well, what do you have in place today?
• 45:03
  What's reusable, what's what's the stuff that you want to throw
• 45:06
  away? Because you're not getting value
• 45:08
  out of it or maybe the relationships going sour?
• 45:11
  And I think, you know what, I heard come through in his talk,
• 45:15
  there was that, you know, there are certain technologies that we
• 45:18
  could leverage and get more out of their certain relationships.
• 45:23
  And when I hear the relationship useless, like I've had good
• 45:26
  experience with these people and I know I feel like I can count
• 45:30
  on them to go that extra mile for me and I'm confident that
• 45:34
  they're going to work in my best interest, you know, Jeff you and
• 45:37
  I've always talked about, you know, how do you deliver a
• 45:41
  vendor agnostic advisory, you know, develop a company strategy
• 45:45
  when your company sells services and specializes in certain
• 45:48
  Technologies, right? How do you keep it?
• 45:50
  How do you keep it real? And I've always said, well, you
• 45:53
  put yourself in the shoes of the client and you say, what would I
• 45:56
  do if I were you and that? And if you work from That and
• 45:59
  that's truly your direction. Then you don't have a problem
• 46:02
  being vendor agnostic. So I kind of feel like, you
• 46:07
  know, some of those things are coming through and what Eric had
• 46:09
  to say? Yeah.
• 46:11
  I feel like replacing Technologies typically the
• 46:13
  nuclear options. So let's figure out how we can
• 46:16
  work with. We have now it doesn't work, it
• 46:17
  doesn't work, but I think the default position is you want to
• 46:20
  try and be economical right with resources is where you can.
• 46:24
  If you've got a tool that you know maybe it's not Say, but you
• 46:29
  think can work, let's go with it, right?
• 46:33
  Rip and replaces is just as a whole other Beast, it's
• 46:37
  expensive. And the other thing is like you
• 46:40
  know, a lot of times if you have a lot of investments in, you
• 46:44
  never get them rolled out, you wind up with that idea of shelf
• 46:48
  where where you're paying for an investment that you're not
• 46:51
  getting any value out of or maybe minimal value.
• 46:54
  If all you ever do is that mvp implementation, you never go
• 46:58
  beyond that. That it's like you bought into
• 47:00
  this big dream and you're getting very little value out of
• 47:03
  it. So I think it makes sense that
• 47:05
  every couple of years or something, you're looking at
• 47:08
  those types of Investments as well as saying either look, this
• 47:12
  is part of our big Vision. We're going to invest and get
• 47:15
  the most out of this software or we're going to unroll the
• 47:18
  investment that we made and cut ties with it.
• 47:22
  Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of
• 47:22
  companies that have the, you know, literally, the best
• 47:25
  products in the world, right? We're talking the upper rights,
• 47:28
  the rights for all the different Gartner, you know, and covering
• 47:32
  or coal or and Forrester analyst reports, right?
• 47:35
  All that stuff, whether I considered like the best.
• 47:37
  There's a lot of companies that have the best products and still
• 47:40
  struggle with it, and they don't get the value out of it because
• 47:43
  they just get to that mvp process and they kind of Peter
• 47:47
  out from there. They don't keep things cared
• 47:49
  fed. They're not keeping things
• 47:50
  updated. And We're say there's a lot of
• 47:52
  products out there that don't keep up with the market as well.
• 47:55
  Right. I think, you know, Legacy
• 47:57
  products that have been out there for a while.
• 47:59
  The newer SAS based, you know, young upstarts that are in the
• 48:03
  identity space came and took a lot of people's lunch.
• 48:05
  Specifically like the idea of a space that is always a risk
• 48:10
  adapt. Right.
• 48:11
  What's next? You know, may is it Cloud
• 48:13
  infrastructure entitlement management is it?
• 48:15
  I TD R II, you know, identity threat, detection response, you
• 48:18
  know? Is it a?
• 48:20
  I am. I mean there's there's a bunch
• 48:21
  of New stuff that's coming along.
• 48:23
  And not only do you as an organization, you know,
• 48:27
  implementing these Services need to keep up the vendors that
• 48:30
  you're working with and the products using those need to
• 48:33
  keep up as well. That's right.
• 48:35
  All right. Let's get the next one because
• 48:37
  speaking of see IEM Cloud infrastructure and title in
• 48:40
  manic that cloud infrastructure. Entitlement management.
• 48:44
  We had John Morton from Britain of on board for episode 115.
• 48:49
  Let me play that clip now. Believe privilege is a great
• 48:52
  idea, but here's my beef, with least privilege it is.
• 48:55
  Very human Centric. What's the other difference that
• 49:00
  I talked about a lot with the cloud?
• 49:02
  We want to move fast at the speed of service identity at the
• 49:06
  speed of machines. When you are trying to analyze
• 49:10
  least privilege from some sort of visibility and you have
• 49:14
  potentially hundreds of thousands of environment roles
• 49:19
  privileges policies. Inline policies, it is a losing
• 49:23
  battle. Why not go to a method of zero
• 49:27
  standing privileges? That meaning if you have to have
• 49:31
  a user account you have no privileges until you actually
• 49:35
  need them. When you need them, you can
• 49:38
  check them out. You can use them for as long as
• 49:40
  you want and you give them back anybody who's ever been in the
• 49:44
  military. It's a very similar idea.
• 49:46
  I used to work on a nuclear submarine, we had roving watches
• 49:50
  on top and we have Had service Duty guns.
• 49:53
  We didn't say, hey we're hoping watch.
• 49:55
  You have duty in eight days. Let me go ahead and give you
• 49:58
  this gun. I'm not going to give you
• 49:59
  bullets, but you just have the gun because part of your role,
• 50:03
  go ahead and keep it. We had a method of, when you
• 50:06
  need the gun, you checked it out, you got the bullets, you
• 50:08
  needed, you stood, your watch, you check the gun back in.
• 50:12
  We need to move fast. So to me least privilege, is
• 50:15
  that idea of? Let's try to get to some sort of
• 50:18
  our back and that's where I do have beef because in the the
• 50:21
  cloud as I just completely mentioned, sometimes you don't
• 50:24
  even need user account. I can give you a user account on
• 50:27
  demand when you need it with the axis it needs and then take it
• 50:30
  away. That reduces risk.
• 50:32
  I would love to hear someone argue the other side of that.
• 50:35
  I want to hear just someone argue against the Euro standing
• 50:38
  privileges. Well, he's not going to get that
• 50:41
  argument because I love the idea of zero standing privileges.
• 50:45
  The idea of the fact that nobody has access or has only the most
• 50:49
  basic things. They need a cafeteria menu, some
• 50:52
  internal SharePoint Internet site, something like that, but I
• 50:55
  love the idea of zero standing privileges, I think it is a nice
• 50:59
  goal to get to how realistic it is, for organizations.
• 51:03
  I think that it requires a lot of technology, and Automation,
• 51:05
  and maturity in their structure to be able to actually make that
• 51:09
  That a real thing in the real world, what do you think?
• 51:12
  Yeah, I mean so the reason I think we picked John John's clip
• 51:19
  a couple reasons. One, I think it's really good
• 51:21
  clip, but the other is just trying to show kind of like the
• 51:25
  podcast. We've had see such as we've had
• 51:28
  folks like John, who are like deep technology, like, in his
• 51:32
  area deep technology Wizards, and we've had people on our
• 51:38
  cross, the Spectrum of, you know, I am domains who are like
• 51:43
  John and we'll talk through like the identi rathi.
• 51:46
  We'll talk through some of the clips for like, CEOs of these
• 51:51
  up-and-coming Technologies as well.
• 51:53
  So that's kind of like the spectrum of folks that we get in
• 51:57
  the podcast. But specific to The Domain topic
• 52:01
  that John brought up, you know, I think that, you know, it's for
• 52:06
  some organizations getting to least privilege and are back.
• 52:09
  Model would be a huge improvement over where they are.
• 52:12
  At the moment, the zero standing privileges, I think makes a ton
• 52:17
  of sense as well. And I think this is the point
• 52:21
  that you're making is like if you have a level of maturity to
• 52:25
  go to that. I think, almost everyone now
• 52:28
  understands least privilege and role-based access control which
• 52:32
  makes it easier to strive for and fewer.
• 52:34
  People understand the zero standing privileges even though
• 52:38
  I think that is too. Directionally the right way from
• 52:41
  a security standpoint. Yeah, I agree.
• 52:46
  All right, this next one, I think is one of our favorite
• 52:49
  episodes, for sure. It's episode, 151.
• 52:52
  What's the difference between digital identity and identity
• 52:55
  and access management? We had a lot of different
• 52:58
  answers. This is one where we crowd
• 52:59
  sourced, a lot of different thoughts from some of the
• 53:02
  identity that are out there and I think this clip is me kind of
• 53:05
  setting the stage that. So, let me play that here real
• 53:08
  quick. Has the definition of identity
• 53:11
  and access management change because I feel like it kind of
• 53:14
  has and there's a lot of different terms sometimes used
• 53:17
  for this right digital identity. I am I DM you know all different
• 53:22
  color of identity words that could be out there.
• 53:24
  I thought was that it will be interesting to get you know some
• 53:26
  of the identity as we like to say, you know, on the show in
• 53:30
  some way and kind of have a Roundtable discussion and then
• 53:33
  actually you had the brilliant idea was I want to we just asked
• 53:35
  people the question and have them email in In there are audio
• 53:40
  response, so I guess Jim. Do you want to kind of take you
• 53:43
  take us through the process of how we got to where we are
• 53:46
  today. And from your perspective, I
• 53:47
  think what happened was MD kept saying, digital identity,
• 53:51
  digital identity, and I thought to myself, whatever happened to
• 53:54
  I am. And so I asked him that
• 53:56
  question. What's the difference between
• 53:57
  digital identity and I am and it kind of stumped them, right?
• 54:01
  And he's like well this is a longer answer.
• 54:04
  This would be a longer answer than we have time for in, you
• 54:08
  know. A little bit of the episode so
• 54:10
  are we making a follow-up episode?
• 54:12
  And then from there we kind of as you mentioned evolve the idea
• 54:16
  to this kind of Round Table and we're going to go through the
• 54:19
  recordings that were submitted. Yeah, the way it worked was you
• 54:22
  know, Jim spammed everybody that we could think of sending email
• 54:26
  to say hey here's the question. If you wanted to record like a 2
• 54:29
  to 3 minute sort of answer on what your thoughts are and the
• 54:32
  question that we posed to everyone, was this, what's the
• 54:35
  difference between digital identity and identity and access
• 54:38
  management? Aren't we kind of looking to
• 54:39
  see? You know what the different
• 54:41
  responses were we got responses from a few different people, we
• 54:44
  have Ann Glaser, he's the senior vice president identity product
• 54:47
  management at Salesforce. He's a friend of the show.
• 54:50
  But on the show before Sarah such a tea.
• 54:52
  She's the head of product for Amazon Cognito, another person
• 54:55
  who's been on the show, actually all these people have gone to
• 54:57
  show Eve, mailer, Chief technology officer at four
• 55:00
  drops. We've got Adam Michael, who's a
• 55:02
  data management officer and director for it risk identity
• 55:06
  and adjunct professor at Texas A&M University.
• 55:09
  T. And then our old friend Jamie
• 55:10
  Lewis Pros. Who's vice president Solutions,
• 55:12
  engineering and strategy at stadiums.
• 55:15
  So we got a lot of good answers to that question out there and
• 55:19
  we've talked about this a few times with a few different
• 55:21
  guest. I think the Andy handle I think
• 55:23
  this is a question. You would ask in a previous
• 55:25
  episode, like, right before and then we got, you know, responses
• 55:29
  from everybody. And I think what struck me was,
• 55:32
  how different everyone's answers were.
• 55:35
  And for the most part, still kind of generally aligned with
• 55:38
  the exception of Adam who had a totally different take on it and
• 55:42
  he kind of flipped it on its head a little bit and I They're
• 55:45
  still to this day. If that is because he's not a
• 55:48
  identity product or service person, he is in the real world.
• 55:52
  Is I'll call it right? Yeah.
• 55:55
  What do you think? He's a true practitioner, right?
• 55:57
  So by the way, I've been in touch with Adam, he's offered to
• 56:03
  come back on the show to talk about Dev SEC, Ops and Iams
• 56:07
  Roland F PSI cops. Oh, that's going to come happen.
• 56:10
  Yeah, that's happened this year. That's gonna be a fantastic one.
• 56:13
  He did have a different perspective.
• 56:15
  But, you know, it's like as you're playing those clips, my
• 56:20
  opinion kept changing. We've recorded with Eve the
• 56:23
  other day and I was listening to her answer and I was like, oh
• 56:26
  yeah, yeah that I agree with Yvonne this one, right?
• 56:29
  So her perspective was like digital identities to seeing an
• 56:33
  identity access management is the management of that thing.
• 56:36
  I'm like yeah, that kind of makes sense to me, but I think
• 56:40
  also kind of going back to fried entities definition, which is
• 56:44
  like Like it's a football. So like how you use the term
• 56:48
  digital identity is like, is it the physical ball or is it this
• 56:54
  concept of a game? There's Global game called
• 56:57
  football. So I thought that was really
• 57:00
  good because I think we use the terms interchangeably, which
• 57:03
  doesn't mean that that's right to do, but I think the
• 57:07
  definition of a word does change over time based on how the term
• 57:11
  is used. Yeah, context matters.
• 57:14
  That that's the way I think it was like, it's a blob.
• 57:17
  It's a piece of Play-Doh or a Lego set, and you can make it
• 57:21
  kind of, look, whatever you're trying to do and it matters who
• 57:24
  you're talking to, and all that good stuff.
• 57:26
  The last thing I'll say about that episode though is like, if
• 57:29
  somebody asked me like, hey I want to listen to one episode of
• 57:32
  your podcast, which one would you recommend?
• 57:34
  That's the 1151. Yeah, that's a good one to kind
• 57:38
  of really get a good distillation of all the
• 57:41
  different things that kind of go on in our Let's go ahead and
• 57:45
  move on to episode number 166. This is something that we
• 57:49
  actually recorded with head covitz from Silver.
• 57:52
  For while we were at Gartner up in the RSM sweet, the sweet
• 57:57
  sweet, sweet referring to it all that week.
• 58:00
  Let me go ahead and play that. Now for a long time, identity
• 58:04
  security was kind of mixed into just I am identity
• 58:09
  infrastructure, you know, if you have an eye.
• 58:12
  I am platform. It has some security features,
• 58:14
  obviously, but I think we got to a point, well, because there are
• 58:18
  so many attacks that are leveraging, stolen identities
• 58:21
  and credentials, people are realizing that we need to look
• 58:24
  at identity security as a standalone thing that we have to
• 58:27
  solve. And it kind of can't be a
• 58:31
  feature in the identity platform because most companies have a
• 58:34
  few different identity platforms.
• 58:36
  They have, they have active directory, on-prem, and they
• 58:38
  have a GED or OCTA in the cloud and they have Full do privileged
• 58:43
  access management and they have something in the perimeter and
• 58:46
  all of these all from different vendors that are competing with
• 58:49
  each other. So there has to be a standalone
• 58:53
  category or solution that would look at identity sets.
• 58:58
  A course all these things and really focus on on the securing
• 59:03
  the identities securing these. This is attack surface that
• 59:06
  people I think for a long time didn't really think about it as
• 59:08
  a major attack surface but it is you know, one of the biggest
• 59:12
  First. We see that with every rainstorm
• 59:14
  or attack. All right.
• 59:16
  Willie just spreads in the network, so easily.
• 59:19
  No matter what kind of security tools you have simply because
• 59:22
  you can take, you know, stolen account for active directory,
• 59:25
  and use it to move to any other computer in the network.
• 59:28
  Nobody will stop you. So I TDR is really about
• 59:32
  detecting and stopping this disease, entity threats and
• 59:35
  looking at identity as an attack surface.
• 59:39
  What do you think? Every reshot the head
• 59:43
  Courvoisier to get them onto the podcast and just thinking, okay
• 59:47
  here's a normal guy who started this company, can't wait to, you
• 59:54
  know, kind of hear what his opinions were.
• 59:56
  We got him recording. I was like, oh my God, this
• 59:58
  guy's like a genius, like he actually is really plugged in.
• 1:00:03
  So again a great episode to go, listen to head is you know, part
• 1:00:08
  of this Like group is CEOs and Founders coming out of Israel,
• 1:00:15
  who, I mean, they're creating the next generation of I am
• 1:00:19
  products, I think realistically, but I, you know, specific to, I
• 1:00:24
  TDR, I kind of feel like, you know, the, the traditional it
• 1:00:32
  security umbrella has kind of looked at things from an IP
• 1:00:37
  address standpoint. So if If things are happening on
• 1:00:40
  the network from certain IP addresses, like we would pick up
• 1:00:44
  signals based on IP this next generation of tools.
• 1:00:48
  Like, identity threat, detection response is really taking a lot
• 1:00:52
  of the same Concepts and basing them on identity because now
• 1:00:56
  it's like, you can take not only the I the network level but you
• 1:01:01
  can also take the identity level and look for things that are
• 1:01:04
  happening from an identity or somebody who's trying to maybe
• 1:01:09
  Is an identity footprint and use it over multiple devices to
• 1:01:14
  attack the network. So to me it's it's it's kind of
• 1:01:20
  an evolution but an important Evolution because I think
• 1:01:24
  usually the way that breaches occur is by people getting hold
• 1:01:30
  of some credentials and trying to leverage those credentials
• 1:01:33
  and they're going to use them in ways that would be unnatural for
• 1:01:37
  a Zur to use them. So those are important signals
• 1:01:42
  because one of the things that you know, I think the catch
• 1:01:45
  phrase that Maybe the, I'm the only one who's been say it, but
• 1:01:49
  at least in my mind, I am always used to be who has access to
• 1:01:53
  what, but I feel like that definition should be who has
• 1:01:58
  access to what and what are they doing with it?
• 1:02:00
  Because it's what are they doing with it?
• 1:02:03
  Is the signal that says, hey maybe it's not even the human
• 1:02:06
  being that is supposed to that, maybe that is a different human
• 1:02:11
  being using those credentials that tie back to the identity.
• 1:02:16
  I feel like it's sort of an evolution of what you be, a user
• 1:02:20
  Behavior Analysis, and ueb a user entitlement Behavior entity
• 1:02:24
  Behavior Analysis were trying to do maybe like 10 years ago.
• 1:02:28
  And if you like the itd, our identity threat detection,
• 1:02:31
  response is sort of the Natural Evolution of that.
• 1:02:33
  Now, to get it, right? You have to have data and you
• 1:02:36
  have to have bass lines and you have to have, you know, the
• 1:02:38
  things that able to correlate what looks fishy versus not
• 1:02:41
  fishy. But to me it's just it's an
• 1:02:43
  evolution of where that's going and I think It's I think it's
• 1:02:47
  where things are headed. I mean I think this is you know,
• 1:02:49
  I think we've got a lot of organizations have spent the
• 1:02:52
  money on getting identity tools into place.
• 1:02:55
  What's the next step? Well, how do you get more value
• 1:02:57
  out of it? Let's take the data that's
• 1:02:59
  sitting in there in these privileged access management
• 1:03:02
  identity governance. Your single sign on your
• 1:03:05
  authentication platform and try to tie that all together to do
• 1:03:08
  things with that data, which totally makes sense.
• 1:03:13
  All right, let's move to the next one here.
• 1:03:15
  This is episode 196. So relatively recent we talked
• 1:03:19
  with Mickey buddi from transmitted and here's that clip
• 1:03:24
  for your staying things that are more geared toward bypassing
• 1:03:28
  two-factor authentication. You know this is funny like you
• 1:03:31
  know when two Factor authentication is kind of like
• 1:03:35
  you know recent in terms of the adoption rate of two Factor
• 1:03:39
  authentication even though it's been with us for many, many
• 1:03:42
  years only. You know probably in the last
• 1:03:45
  five years or so. We're starting to see
• 1:03:48
  organizations really adapting two-factor authentication and
• 1:03:52
  typically with an OTP typically over you know SMS or email or
• 1:03:58
  not specific application to do that, you know as soon as you
• 1:04:03
  know fraudsters realized that this is what organizations are
• 1:04:07
  doing. They immediately came up with
• 1:04:09
  men in the middle attacks like you know it's not like they
• 1:04:12
  invented. It right like this attack
• 1:04:14
  vectors. I can tell you that, you know,
• 1:04:17
  we've been experimenting with them like 20 years ago.
• 1:04:20
  So, everything was known but like, you know, sometimes like
• 1:04:24
  the motion is, it's like, always like, you know, for me, it's
• 1:04:27
  like you're watching something in slow motion, right?
• 1:04:31
  It's like when you're watching something in slow motion, you
• 1:04:33
  know, what's going to come next? Because you get like a lot of
• 1:04:36
  time to think so with, you know, for example, we two-factor
• 1:04:39
  authentication, it was pretty obvious that as soon as His, you
• 1:04:44
  know, starts to adopt it fraudsters will be able to
• 1:04:47
  bypass it very easily. So we're seeing a lot kind of
• 1:04:50
  like men in the middle phishing websites where like you know the
• 1:04:54
  fishing website asks you for the the OTP code and then the
• 1:04:58
  fraudster goes and completes that and it was slightly more
• 1:05:01
  advanced attack would be a seems to app which is becoming easier
• 1:05:05
  to do now with a seam and the fact that you don't need like a
• 1:05:10
  physical seem to pretend to be You know, to take over a
• 1:05:14
  different phone number, the actual mobile operators, or
• 1:05:18
  being a part or, you know, a step in the attack itself.
• 1:05:23
  So we're seeing a lot of that typically.
• 1:05:26
  So moving towards password list which has been a theme, I think
• 1:05:29
  for getting thing and stronger than occasion.
• 1:05:31
  Hey maybe Twitter is going to surprise me and they're going to
• 1:05:33
  replace SMS with password less for all the users.
• 1:05:36
  I'm sure that will be a cheaper solution might not be cheaper.
• 1:05:40
  But yeah, I say, you know, a conversation we have with Mickey
• 1:05:46
  was just so insightful so you know, he's been in the space for
• 1:05:49
  so long started, a very successful organization and you
• 1:05:55
  know he kind of like went into the space looking at, you know,
• 1:06:01
  orchestration and now they've really moved to authentication
• 1:06:06
  and putting risk at the center of, you know, kind of how they
• 1:06:11
  do authentication and you know, kind of Of one of the
• 1:06:13
  conversations that has been real.
• 1:06:15
  Interesting, to me lately is the shared responsibility around,
• 1:06:23
  you know, letting people in the door.
• 1:06:25
  So it's partially your, you know, everybody these days is
• 1:06:29
  like Outsourcing the technology to do, authentication to another
• 1:06:34
  company but that does not absolve you from the need to or
• 1:06:40
  from the risk involved with those Seven occasions and you're
• 1:06:45
  setting the settings and things like that.
• 1:06:48
  So to me it's like this issue of risk and levels of assurance is
• 1:06:54
  like hers the center of this discussion 10 15 years ago, it's
• 1:07:00
  the center of the session today. I think the, you know, the
• 1:07:04
  authentication technology that's out there today is much better,
• 1:07:08
  but it doesn't remove all the risks from the from an
• 1:07:12
  organization from a Additional perspective to, you know,
• 1:07:16
  handling the authentications that just gives you a better set
• 1:07:19
  of tools. Yeah, well said I don't think I
• 1:07:22
  can top that. So where do we go from here
• 1:07:26
  before we wrap things up? Yeah, I think that's a good
• 1:07:30
  question. I mean, you know, the next time
• 1:07:32
  we have a, an episode where we really recognize that we've hit
• 1:07:38
  a milestone. What is that numbers?
• 1:07:40
  It 300-500, I mean, we're basically doing about, you know,
• 1:07:45
  roughly 50 to 60 episodes a year.
• 1:07:48
  So to get the episode 1000 is going to be like 15 more years.
• 1:07:55
  So I think, you know, 500 is a major milestone.
• 1:07:58
  Turn. But I think for sure, I'll do
• 1:08:00
  you know, at least recognize things.
• 1:08:02
  I think what we want to continue to do is like let's keep the
• 1:08:06
  conversation going, let's keep it vendor agnostic.
• 1:08:10
  I mean you and I have like we went over five episodes and of
• 1:08:17
  those five episodes four people came from, you know, either.
• 1:08:21
  Well no I'm sorry. 33 of the episodes.
• 1:08:24
  People came from technology vendors and one of the things
• 1:08:27
  that we've been big on is Saying this podcast is not an
• 1:08:31
  infomercial, an infomercial for you on an infomercial.
• 1:08:34
  For us, doesn't mean we're not grateful and make sure that we
• 1:08:38
  say thank you when people do things to support the cause that
• 1:08:43
  does not mean, it's like an official endorsement of of any
• 1:08:47
  technology or service or of ourselves.
• 1:08:50
  So, I, you know, that's where I'd like to just see his keep on
• 1:08:54
  that track of not, being an infomercial, this being kind of
• 1:08:58
  So your term a safe place, you know that people can come and
• 1:09:02
  get real information here, real voices and perspectives in the
• 1:09:07
  industry and know that we're not just going to be pitched to, for
• 1:09:11
  an hour because it would be interested in listening to that.
• 1:09:14
  Anyway, not me. And I'm not planning on editing
• 1:09:17
  it either, so so good luck with that.
• 1:09:21
  No, I think you're totally right, we'll keep it
• 1:09:22
  vendor-neutral. Keep it casual conversational.
• 1:09:25
  Not a presentation. I will counter.
• 1:09:27
  I absolutely 100%. % endorse you and I about that.
• 1:09:31
  All right. And you know, of course, you
• 1:09:33
  know, we continue to bring on guests and, you know, folks that
• 1:09:36
  have can add value to the conversation Beyond just, you
• 1:09:40
  know, a marketing pitch or things like that.
• 1:09:42
  But that doesn't interest me. Don't forget interest.
• 1:09:44
  A lot of people are out there. I think we just want to get to
• 1:09:46
  the meat of the topic and go from there.
• 1:09:48
  Yeah. And I'd realistically like, I
• 1:09:50
  mean we've done it now, for three and a half years, I think
• 1:09:53
  there's only one time and all that time in all 200 episodes,
• 1:09:57
  are we had? Call time out and say like this
• 1:10:01
  getting a little bit to my too much on the advertising side.
• 1:10:05
  So let's dial it back, right, everybody agrees.
• 1:10:08
  I mean like if you listen to that episode from Mickey that we
• 1:10:12
  just played, he's the co-founder of transmit security but he
• 1:10:15
  didn't pump is product or talk about like, yeah, this is why
• 1:10:20
  we're the best not one single time.
• 1:10:22
  We asked them to come on, to talk about risk and
• 1:10:26
  authentication and it's like, that's we got and that's what we
• 1:10:30
  expect out of all of our guests. Yeah, safe place.
• 1:10:35
  All right we've been going on for about an hour and 10 minutes
• 1:10:38
  so far. Rough lengthening people's work
• 1:10:40
  and I keep things. Yeah, we'll keep things rolling
• 1:10:43
  here for another. Well, we'll celebrate another
• 1:10:45
  100 episodes number. 300, and they're all my children, all my
• 1:10:48
  babies. So I want to make sure that they
• 1:10:50
  come out. Well, before we wrap up any new
• 1:10:54
  TV shows that you're into. Yeah, so, I mean, I got home
• 1:10:58
  around plush. Yeah.
• 1:10:59
  Documented, I watch books documentaries last night.
• 1:11:03
  But yeah, I've got parallel Plus, I'm very into the
• 1:11:08
  Yellowstone spin-offs but I've watched, I'm all caught up on
• 1:11:12
  those and Picard, you know, that's like my one sci-fi that I
• 1:11:17
  really watch music. Brings you back to my Star Trek,
• 1:11:21
  the Next Generation days and it looks like season 3 is heavy on,
• 1:11:26
  you know, old, it's got Riker, it's got Beverly, who was the
• 1:11:32
  the Eric on the Enterprise and I've heard Geordi laforge
• 1:11:38
  mentioned several times. Who that was like my one of my
• 1:11:41
  favorite characters on that on that old show.
• 1:11:45
  How are you? I slept on Picard for a while
• 1:11:48
  and he kept mentioning I was like yeah, I'll get around to
• 1:11:49
  it. And frankly I would just forget
• 1:11:51
  that Paramount plus existed. I was like, okay well I'll
• 1:11:54
  finally check it out and it's good.
• 1:11:55
  I really enjoyed. So I'm looking forward to that.
• 1:11:59
  I've I have finished packs on. Go, which is a comedy-drama type
• 1:12:06
  series. It's got Jean Smart.
• 1:12:08
  It's got Hannah. I'm binder and I think it's
• 1:12:10
  really funny and really well done.
• 1:12:12
  I think it's been nominated for a bunch of different things but
• 1:12:15
  that's another one that I kind of slept on for a little while.
• 1:12:18
  And I think there's two episodes two seasons of a.
• 1:12:20
  Now, I've kind of worked my way through that and I'm really
• 1:12:24
  enjoying that stuff. We want to check out if you
• 1:12:25
  haven't kind of seen it. And then I've actually started
• 1:12:28
  watching House of the the dragon the The Game of Thrones spinoff.
• 1:12:33
  I watched the first episode like when it first came out I was
• 1:12:35
  like okay kind of left it alone and then I've been watching the
• 1:12:39
  last few episodes or the last few nights trying to get caught
• 1:12:42
  up on it and it's okay. I won't say it's as good as Game
• 1:12:45
  of Thrones yet, but I think it's one of those things where you
• 1:12:47
  kind of have to build up into it to some degree with the
• 1:12:50
  world-building and characters. Yeah, for me Game of Thrones the
• 1:12:53
  best seasons were the first couple Seasons, it just like,
• 1:12:58
  what's a show where the Walking Dead the first few seasons I was
• 1:13:03
  like oh I can actually see that happening then as it's the
• 1:13:07
  show's get further in, they become become more like a
• 1:13:10
  Stephen King movie where it's like oh the beginning you're
• 1:13:13
  like yeah that's real life that could really happen and then all
• 1:13:16
  of a sudden like you know he goes off the rails and so that's
• 1:13:21
  where I usually lose interest but I'm a big fan of Picard
• 1:13:25
  which like 500 years in the future and who knows if It is of
• 1:13:30
  humanity. Will even continue.
• 1:13:32
  There's me prank, it's out right before we end the episode.
• 1:13:35
  Yeah, well, hopefully, someone will, I'll be able to like
• 1:13:37
  digitized myself somehow and, you know, make myself an AI that
• 1:13:40
  can kind of live forever. Somewhere there, be great.
• 1:13:43
  And some sort of low Fidelity mode, taking all the audio that
• 1:13:47
  has been part of this podcast, the 2000 hours plus that we have
• 1:13:50
  out there and sort of cobbled together in aii around that.
• 1:13:55
  Well, there are some, I was watching one of my documentaries
• 1:13:58
  and there's this certain type type of frog that I forget,
• 1:14:02
  where he lives. But when it freezes He gets
• 1:14:07
  frozen in the ice and when the ice thaws, he comes back to
• 1:14:11
  life, and that's like so unfair, the reason that they can't
• 1:14:15
  freeze humans is because like they're freezing process,
• 1:14:18
  destroys ourselves, but there's something with this frog where
• 1:14:23
  his cells don't get destroyed by the cold.
• 1:14:27
  So if they could figure out that science, that's the cryogenic, I
• 1:14:31
  think, Right freeze. You know, freezer body or freeze
• 1:14:34
  your head for the future, some some and then maybe maybe one
• 1:14:38
  figure it out and then we get into you know, if you haven't
• 1:14:41
  seen the show altered Carbon on Netflix.
• 1:14:44
  Basically you're getting downloaded into a new body.
• 1:14:47
  Every time you die which is kind of interesting concept to that
• 1:14:51
  will be interesting. Yeah.
• 1:14:53
  Alright let's go ahead and leave it there.
• 1:14:54
  That was episode number 200. Jim always.
• 1:14:57
  Pleasure once just you and I chatting I feel like it's so
• 1:14:59
  easy I have. So few edits that I have to make
• 1:15:02
  which is great. And the prep is very little, we
• 1:15:06
  prepped a this is one that I wasn't sure what we were going
• 1:15:09
  to do and we again kind of pulled it out together.
• 1:15:12
  What are going to talk about here?
• 1:15:13
  We are our 15 later. Yeah, right, exactly.
• 1:15:16
  Maybe we just short of episode. Yeah.
• 1:15:19
  All right we're going to leave it there.
• 1:15:21
  We're on the web. Idac, podcast.com Twitter, at
• 1:15:24
  IES. Idac podcast, mastodon On idac
• 1:15:28
  podcasts at infosec data Xchange, given are always happy
• 1:15:32
  to connect with LinkedIn. If you're a listener, please
• 1:15:34
  drop a comment or something so that I know that you listen to
• 1:15:37
  the show and yeah, be sure to subscribe.
• 1:15:40
  So you know when you episodes come out and I've got one more
• 1:15:42
  surprise for you. Jim you ready for it?
• 1:15:44
  Yeah, we've got a new outro. Not just the new intro but a new
• 1:15:48
  outro. Oh, I can't wait.
• 1:15:50
  Here it goes. You've been listening to
• 1:15:54
  Identity at the center. We hope you've enjoyed.
• 1:15:57
  The show, make sure to like rate and review and we'll be back
• 1:16:02
  soon, but in the meantime, hit the website and identity at the
• 1:16:06
  center.com and find us on Twitter at idac podcast.
• 1:16:12
  See you next time on identity at the center