Latest / Blockchain Germany – Web3 Startups, Crypto Innovation & Venture Capital by Startuprad.io™ / Emotional Branding: The Startup Superpower
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- WEBVTT 00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:05.477 <v Speaker0>How the brand is felt, how we feel as me, part of like a consumer group. 00:00:05.697 --> 00:00:09.597 <v Speaker0>How do we feel? How do we see brands? 00:00:09.857 --> 00:00:15.497 <v Speaker0>For example, if the message does not come to us and we cannot adjust, 00:00:15.717 --> 00:00:19.617 <v Speaker0>process them, we will not like react to the brand. 00:00:19.877 --> 00:00:24.737 <v Speaker0>We will not react to the loudness, rather like how we feel. 00:00:25.200 --> 00:00:45.200 <v Music> 00:00:30.177 --> 00:00:37.737 <v Speaker1>Welcome to StartupRed.io, your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German 00:00:37.737 --> 00:00:42.677 <v Speaker1>startup scene with news, interviews and live events. 00:00:44.957 --> 00:00:49.377 <v Speaker1>Hello and welcome everybody. This is Joe from StartupRed.io, 00:00:49.677 --> 00:00:53.637 <v Speaker1>your startup podcast and YouTube blog from Germany, Austria and Switzerland. 00:00:53.637 --> 00:00:56.657 <v Speaker1>Today, I have Jacob with me. 00:00:57.957 --> 00:01:02.777 <v Speaker1>What if your startup's most powerful growth engine isn't your tech, 00:01:02.997 --> 00:01:09.437 <v Speaker1>pitch tech or GTM strategy, but how your brand makes people feel? 00:01:09.677 --> 00:01:14.297 <v Speaker1>On today's startuprate.io, we sit together down with Jacob. 00:01:15.541 --> 00:01:20.401 <v Speaker1>Tirpid? Tirpid? Is that pronounced right? A serious mind who enjoys exploring 00:01:20.401 --> 00:01:25.021 <v Speaker1>new brand shapes, the way we connect from advertising design to marketing, 00:01:25.021 --> 00:01:29.961 <v Speaker1>and what truly defines the essence of lasting, meaningful branding. 00:01:30.661 --> 00:01:34.961 <v Speaker1>Jacob is the founder of creative brand agency Yes, Yes, and Two. 00:01:35.241 --> 00:01:40.881 <v Speaker1>His work has directly or indirectly influenced a range of international brands, 00:01:41.061 --> 00:01:46.601 <v Speaker1>including Audi, Belvoir's Chocolate, the European Commission, Fight World Chess, 00:01:47.341 --> 00:01:55.521 <v Speaker1>Husqvarna Motorcycles, Icos, KTM, Loki, Marvel, Mattel, Noteback, 00:01:56.141 --> 00:01:57.681 <v Speaker1>Pernod Ricard, Red Bull, 00:01:58.801 --> 00:02:05.021 <v Speaker1>Remark Cars, Salzburger Land, Sebastian Professional, United Colors of Benetton, and many more. 00:02:05.541 --> 00:02:08.841 <v Speaker1>Jacob isn't here to talk about logos, design, or slogans. 00:02:09.801 --> 00:02:15.481 <v Speaker1>He's here to offer a fresh perspective on how the often overlooked biology and 00:02:15.481 --> 00:02:21.701 <v Speaker1>psychology behind branding can quietly play a significant role in a startup success, 00:02:22.021 --> 00:02:25.681 <v Speaker1>why it matters, and how we're connecting to brands in today's world. 00:02:25.861 --> 00:02:31.481 <v Speaker1>With over 18 years of experience in branding, marketing, advertising, and design, 00:02:31.961 --> 00:02:37.301 <v Speaker1>Jacobs brings a deep understanding of why branding matters, How subconscious 00:02:37.301 --> 00:02:42.321 <v Speaker1>brands signal, build trust long before the metrics do. 00:02:42.461 --> 00:02:50.381 <v Speaker1>And where the smartest founders today are shifting from B2B or B2C to H2H, human to human. 00:02:50.621 --> 00:02:55.921 <v Speaker1>We unpack the emotional language that customers feel but can't describe. 00:02:55.921 --> 00:03:01.741 <v Speaker1>How to brand authentically from day one, even with no budget. 00:03:01.741 --> 00:03:09.001 <v Speaker1>What do startup teams often get wrong about culture, storytelling, 00:03:09.041 --> 00:03:11.541 <v Speaker1>and the story behind their own product or mission? 00:03:11.801 --> 00:03:17.621 <v Speaker1>Why investors feel brands before you fund your round? 00:03:18.661 --> 00:03:23.121 <v Speaker1>If you found a CEO, investor, or simply somebody building something meaningful, 00:03:23.441 --> 00:03:28.341 <v Speaker1>this episode will help you understand why brands matter from day one before 00:03:28.341 --> 00:03:33.441 <v Speaker1>your pitch deck or presentation and offer fresh perspective on how to build 00:03:33.441 --> 00:03:38.421 <v Speaker1>a more cohesive brand for stronger long-term success. 00:03:41.584 --> 00:03:46.184 <v Speaker1>Jacob, that was quite a long intro. Welcome to StartupRate.io. 00:03:47.284 --> 00:03:51.424 <v Speaker0>Thank you again for giving me this opportunity. Thank you for a really nice 00:03:51.424 --> 00:03:54.704 <v Speaker0>introduction. I felt like a prima donna somehow. 00:04:01.004 --> 00:04:07.644 <v Speaker1>Jacob, you believe startups don't win by just being louder, but by being felt 00:04:07.644 --> 00:04:11.084 <v Speaker1>in every aspect what led you to this perspective 00:04:11.084 --> 00:04:19.864 <v Speaker0>Absolutely that's a good question that I was trying to reach out trying to understand 00:04:19.864 --> 00:04:24.804 <v Speaker0>through my journey of educational and next experimental how brands are, 00:04:26.044 --> 00:04:33.244 <v Speaker0>extrovert only create introvert the message that we try to position as a brand 00:04:33.244 --> 00:04:36.744 <v Speaker0>wants to hit the emotional tones. 00:04:37.184 --> 00:04:41.724 <v Speaker0>When the brand hits the emotional tones, we are rather talking about how the 00:04:41.724 --> 00:04:45.084 <v Speaker0>brand is making us feel rather like what is loud. 00:04:45.624 --> 00:04:50.104 <v Speaker0>Because I do believe that loud is not coming from having just like colors, 00:04:50.404 --> 00:04:54.444 <v Speaker0>logotypes and different messages painted on the wall or in the cities, 00:04:54.624 --> 00:04:56.944 <v Speaker0>but rather like how we feel about the brand. 00:04:56.944 --> 00:05:03.064 <v Speaker0>And by that, I think that I came to a conclusion that it's more important for 00:05:03.064 --> 00:05:05.144 <v Speaker0>us consumers than brands. 00:05:05.744 --> 00:05:08.624 <v Speaker0>And we feel the brands rather like that they are allowed. 00:05:08.984 --> 00:05:16.684 <v Speaker1>So basically, you go back to the theory that most of what we say is not in words, 00:05:16.724 --> 00:05:20.504 <v Speaker1>but it's in the feeling of how we convey the message. 00:05:21.264 --> 00:05:27.164 <v Speaker1>You talk about invisible language, invisible branding here. Can you unpack what 00:05:27.164 --> 00:05:28.804 <v Speaker1>it means for early stage founders? 00:05:30.359 --> 00:05:37.839 <v Speaker0>When it comes to invisible languages, we usually perceive in branding in terms 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:42.679 <v Speaker0>of what we can track or what we cannot deal on a daily basis. 00:05:43.019 --> 00:05:51.279 <v Speaker0>Meaning that brands are more powered by emotional stage, which our brain biological 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:53.899 <v Speaker0>part is also working in this aspect. 00:05:53.899 --> 00:05:59.979 <v Speaker0>Then we have the most necessary component like for success, like to be trust, 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:05.839 <v Speaker0>to be trusted from like consumers as like partners, communication ways. 00:06:06.619 --> 00:06:13.059 <v Speaker0>And the third one, the third part of the invisible brand is definitely human to human direction, 00:06:13.779 --> 00:06:19.119 <v Speaker0>because it's coming more from biological aspect, how we are operating through 00:06:19.119 --> 00:06:23.179 <v Speaker0>the day, how we are communicating, how we are perceiving the messages and how 00:06:23.179 --> 00:06:28.359 <v Speaker0>we actually understand the brands and what the brands are trying to understand. 00:06:28.599 --> 00:06:34.219 <v Speaker0>So I would say that emotional part, trust and human to human direction, 00:06:34.499 --> 00:06:38.099 <v Speaker0>these are the core of foundational, the invisible branding. 00:06:39.019 --> 00:06:46.239 <v Speaker1>So you talk about what you feel when you see, when you experience branding. 00:06:46.659 --> 00:06:55.039 <v Speaker1>I was wondering the first mistake what what's the branding trap every startup falls into early on 00:06:55.039 --> 00:06:58.759 <v Speaker0>I would definitely say that 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:03.759 <v Speaker0>the first trap that many of startups dive 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:10.519 <v Speaker0>in is they are all the best in what they do they are all the best how they are 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:17.519 <v Speaker0>polarizing and creating the product the service they would like to push on the 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:21.999 <v Speaker0>market and then at some point they neglect the brand aspect. 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:28.379 <v Speaker0>They neglected the storytelling, they neglect how conveyed the message, 00:07:28.539 --> 00:07:32.639 <v Speaker0>the product, the service that they would like to position on the market actually 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:35.979 <v Speaker0>delivered to the consumer, to the end users. 00:07:36.359 --> 00:07:40.539 <v Speaker0>And this is something that it's as a startups, 00:07:41.099 --> 00:07:46.139 <v Speaker0>They could start not just working on the logotype, but rather like to starting 00:07:46.139 --> 00:07:52.459 <v Speaker0>with the storytelling to be authentically different from the other brands. 00:07:52.799 --> 00:07:58.919 <v Speaker0>And this would help them in order like to be a little bit different and not fall into this trap. 00:08:01.057 --> 00:08:04.797 <v Speaker1>You talked about in the past, internal first. 00:08:05.577 --> 00:08:12.997 <v Speaker1>How does internal branding drive external impact and the other way around? 00:08:15.597 --> 00:08:22.417 <v Speaker0>As we talk about internal branding, it's always what team do we have around us? 00:08:22.557 --> 00:08:28.297 <v Speaker0>What kind of people and who are helping us to develop the branding, 00:08:28.497 --> 00:08:29.917 <v Speaker0>to push the branding out? 00:08:31.297 --> 00:08:37.457 <v Speaker0>And internal branding, it's the most important because if internal branding, 00:08:37.697 --> 00:08:41.117 <v Speaker0>our team does not fill the brand, does not live with the brand, 00:08:41.517 --> 00:08:45.817 <v Speaker0>external branding will hardly survive in the market. Why? 00:08:46.117 --> 00:08:51.277 <v Speaker0>Because we will have to push so much effort into building internal branding. 00:08:51.597 --> 00:08:57.097 <v Speaker0>While we will do this, we will neglect the most important part because our competitors 00:08:57.097 --> 00:09:04.137 <v Speaker0>marketers will already step further and to be better and better to work on external branding. 00:09:05.677 --> 00:09:10.057 <v Speaker0>And they will be able to understand the consumers better, they will be able 00:09:10.057 --> 00:09:12.157 <v Speaker0>to reach the consumer better. 00:09:13.377 --> 00:09:19.457 <v Speaker0>So by this, if we don't have the right team, if we don't have the right homogen 00:09:19.457 --> 00:09:24.577 <v Speaker0>team, how we communicate that we believe in the product that we have, 00:09:25.217 --> 00:09:34.017 <v Speaker0>external branding will be hard to survive because external part is just extended hand of internal. 00:09:37.637 --> 00:09:41.177 <v Speaker1>Age-to-age, human-to-human philosophy. 00:09:41.457 --> 00:09:45.697 <v Speaker1>You reject the classical categories of B2B and B2C. 00:09:45.897 --> 00:09:52.317 <v Speaker1>Actually, that also makes sense for me. Instead, say it's all age to age, human to human. 00:09:54.872 --> 00:10:00.392 <v Speaker1>I have to smile thinking about that, thinking about the involvement of AI in the future. 00:10:00.532 --> 00:10:05.672 <v Speaker1>But anyways, what does this right now exactly look like? 00:10:07.252 --> 00:10:14.692 <v Speaker0>H2H, B2C, it's just another categorization. B2C, business to consumers, business to business. 00:10:15.332 --> 00:10:22.752 <v Speaker0>But on the other side, behind those names are actually like human beings who 00:10:22.752 --> 00:10:27.112 <v Speaker0>are actually feeling, who are feeling how we communicate, 00:10:27.392 --> 00:10:32.732 <v Speaker0>how we propose something, how we offer, what kind of solutions do we have. 00:10:32.912 --> 00:10:40.092 <v Speaker0>So rather, like to think, oh, this brand or this product goes out to certain consumers. 00:10:40.692 --> 00:10:46.572 <v Speaker0>Think about human to human, how it would be when you try to push the product 00:10:46.572 --> 00:10:50.072 <v Speaker0>to your family or to your brother, you talk to him as a person, 00:10:50.312 --> 00:10:55.092 <v Speaker0>as someone who actually would feel something about, because again, 00:10:55.392 --> 00:10:58.952 <v Speaker0>in all aspects we are wired by biology. 00:10:59.872 --> 00:11:04.832 <v Speaker0>From biologically spectrum, we are emotional creatures. 00:11:06.212 --> 00:11:12.072 <v Speaker0>And again, like being emotional, being human to human, we build trust, 00:11:12.232 --> 00:11:17.592 <v Speaker0>we build understanding and slowly we can build something meaningful in terms 00:11:17.592 --> 00:11:20.432 <v Speaker0>of having like our group of consumers, 00:11:21.132 --> 00:11:23.692 <v Speaker0>that actually believe in us in a brand. 00:11:25.412 --> 00:11:30.972 <v Speaker1>And now a very interesting aspect for me before we go into short ad break would 00:11:30.972 --> 00:11:37.812 <v Speaker1>be for me, how do you see AI working on this in the future? 00:11:37.812 --> 00:11:43.952 <v Speaker1>Meaning from H to H to H to I to H. 00:11:48.172 --> 00:11:55.852 <v Speaker0>Oh, that's a nice question. And of course, there will be like so many benefits. 00:11:56.372 --> 00:12:03.652 <v Speaker0>But on the other hand, we were still missing the humor intersection interfering, 00:12:03.872 --> 00:12:07.532 <v Speaker0>because in the end, it's not just about the emotion, 00:12:07.772 --> 00:12:12.652 <v Speaker0>which AI can still not like reach them or like to give you the perfect answer, 00:12:12.652 --> 00:12:15.152 <v Speaker0>but rather like to be understood, 00:12:15.792 --> 00:12:20.132 <v Speaker0>to be felt like the warmest of people, you know, like when someone looks into 00:12:20.132 --> 00:12:23.952 <v Speaker0>your eyes and say like, okay, I understand you, like I have you. 00:12:24.432 --> 00:12:30.652 <v Speaker0>And by this, AI is like a fantastic tool that will help like even the branding will like escalate. 00:12:31.432 --> 00:12:35.932 <v Speaker0>But in terms of we are not there yet, 00:12:35.932 --> 00:12:39.792 <v Speaker0>that would be replacing this human to human connection, 00:12:39.792 --> 00:12:53.932 <v Speaker0>because sometimes we might also do a mistake to leave some aspects too far away from us. 00:12:57.232 --> 00:13:03.732 <v Speaker1>Guys, we'll be back after a very short ad break. Jacob, you're doing much better. 00:13:09.512 --> 00:13:12.472 <v Speaker1>Guys welcome back thank you for sticking with 00:13:12.472 --> 00:13:16.032 <v Speaker1>us this is joe talking to jacob about screw 00:13:16.032 --> 00:13:19.712 <v Speaker1>uh forgetting b2b branding b2c 00:13:19.712 --> 00:13:24.432 <v Speaker1>branding it's all human to human even though we are not really sure yet how 00:13:24.432 --> 00:13:28.892 <v Speaker1>the ai will get involved into that let's talk a little bit about the investor 00:13:28.892 --> 00:13:35.032 <v Speaker1>lines here What does emotional branding mean from an investor's perspective 00:13:35.032 --> 00:13:38.412 <v Speaker1>and how do they usually react to it? 00:13:38.512 --> 00:13:40.872 <v Speaker1>How does it show up in the pitch rooms? 00:13:43.026 --> 00:13:48.766 <v Speaker0>Also in this matters, I do believe that investors, as they are just like humans 00:13:48.766 --> 00:13:51.366 <v Speaker0>on the other spectrum with whom we are communicating, 00:13:51.766 --> 00:13:55.966 <v Speaker0>they are looking for a brand, product, service, 00:13:56.206 --> 00:14:01.946 <v Speaker0>which are trustworthy, meaning that like the first front battle that they come 00:14:01.946 --> 00:14:05.986 <v Speaker0>across to is the person who is representing the brand, 00:14:06.126 --> 00:14:12.686 <v Speaker0>who is representing the company, and investors are also keen to understand them. 00:14:13.026 --> 00:14:18.246 <v Speaker0>Where they are coming from, how they are wired, because in the end like financially support, 00:14:18.886 --> 00:14:26.226 <v Speaker0>is important and based on trust and how the trust is connected to the CEO, 00:14:26.566 --> 00:14:33.446 <v Speaker0>to the inventor, to the startup and what kind of product do they want to position out. 00:14:33.706 --> 00:14:40.226 <v Speaker0>So I believe that like emotional branding, when it comes to these certain matters, 00:14:40.526 --> 00:14:41.966 <v Speaker0>it's also about the trust. 00:14:41.966 --> 00:14:47.326 <v Speaker0>The trust is the first like fence that it has to be crossed in order to reach 00:14:47.326 --> 00:14:50.926 <v Speaker0>hands and say like, hey, I trust you. I know that you will deliver. 00:14:51.086 --> 00:14:55.066 <v Speaker0>I know that you will do good. So I have trust in you that you will be able to 00:14:55.066 --> 00:14:59.506 <v Speaker0>pull and to do what you said, what is your pitch desk. 00:15:03.206 --> 00:15:12.606 <v Speaker1>I see. I was wondering because usually our audience is more in the Series C stage, 00:15:12.606 --> 00:15:18.906 <v Speaker1>meaning companies of 500 plus employees thinking about doing M&A, 00:15:19.986 --> 00:15:22.706 <v Speaker1>that's really something big there. 00:15:23.886 --> 00:15:29.886 <v Speaker1>And I was wondering, this scale dissonance as startups grow, 00:15:29.886 --> 00:15:37.306 <v Speaker1>how can their brand stay authentic and what does it mean emotionally for the 00:15:37.306 --> 00:15:39.346 <v Speaker1>team and their audiences. 00:15:41.910 --> 00:15:47.610 <v Speaker0>This is the one big of a challenge because somehow we live in a huge, 00:15:48.050 --> 00:15:53.610 <v Speaker0>fast, world-based market that we would always like to position something new, 00:15:53.650 --> 00:15:55.950 <v Speaker0>but in the branding, it's just the opposite. 00:15:56.390 --> 00:16:04.050 <v Speaker0>When the brand escalates, when the startup grows, they usually neglect one important 00:16:04.050 --> 00:16:06.190 <v Speaker0>thing. They do not need to change their story. 00:16:06.330 --> 00:16:11.530 <v Speaker0>They do not need to add more elements to the brand, but rather keep them simple. 00:16:11.530 --> 00:16:16.890 <v Speaker0>Keep them as it was at the beginning because that will also lead to authenticity, 00:16:17.370 --> 00:16:18.610 <v Speaker0>like how authentic they are. 00:16:19.170 --> 00:16:23.450 <v Speaker0>Because authentic comes like not to be a copycat, but rather like I will go 00:16:23.450 --> 00:16:29.030 <v Speaker0>my own line, I will do my own visual presentation, I will have like my own branding, 00:16:29.190 --> 00:16:30.930 <v Speaker0>I will have like my stories. 00:16:32.390 --> 00:16:37.830 <v Speaker0>When it comes that brands and startups are growing, 00:16:38.170 --> 00:16:41.630 <v Speaker0>usually they neglect the fact that they need 00:16:41.630 --> 00:16:50.090 <v Speaker0>to stay authentic by saying the same story as they did like at the beginning 00:16:50.090 --> 00:16:55.670 <v Speaker0>because otherwise they are just getting too much noise when they are adding 00:16:55.670 --> 00:16:58.450 <v Speaker0>new components because of the marketing pranks, 00:16:58.670 --> 00:17:00.950 <v Speaker0>because of the marketing speed, 00:17:01.330 --> 00:17:04.970 <v Speaker0>when they are adding new components as like new slogans, new keywords, 00:17:05.310 --> 00:17:08.470 <v Speaker0>new words, new messages. 00:17:08.470 --> 00:17:13.090 <v Speaker0>Everything starts just like to blur away, which is not authentic anymore, 00:17:13.090 --> 00:17:16.430 <v Speaker0>because it's far from what they've been at the beginning. 00:17:17.810 --> 00:17:23.570 <v Speaker1>So should they stick with what they've been in the beginning? 00:17:24.910 --> 00:17:28.730 <v Speaker1>Or should they start to adapt to the new reality? 00:17:32.082 --> 00:17:37.382 <v Speaker1>Most people will listen to this. I have to give them some commentary. 00:17:37.622 --> 00:17:40.002 <v Speaker1>You really had to think and look up in the air. 00:17:42.182 --> 00:17:49.382 <v Speaker0>You know, it's like you have to be flexible enough to stay authentically the 00:17:49.382 --> 00:17:51.122 <v Speaker0>same as you were at the beginning. 00:17:52.182 --> 00:17:55.222 <v Speaker0>Because, for example, I will give you a really good example. 00:17:55.402 --> 00:17:58.802 <v Speaker0>Be authentic. Like when you slide through the media, I see like, 00:17:58.902 --> 00:18:04.382 <v Speaker0>like I will give you like a really analogy, which is off from the branding, but has a good meaning. 00:18:04.642 --> 00:18:10.982 <v Speaker0>When you see a person who is doing something in the gym, you see how well built he is. 00:18:11.222 --> 00:18:14.662 <v Speaker0>You will not, you say like, I would like to be that person, but you are not 00:18:14.662 --> 00:18:16.542 <v Speaker0>becoming that person right away. 00:18:16.542 --> 00:18:20.422 <v Speaker0>So this means that like if you are adapting too much on the trends, 00:18:20.722 --> 00:18:27.082 <v Speaker0>on the current setting on the market, you will also lose your path from who 00:18:27.082 --> 00:18:31.002 <v Speaker0>you were and how you would like to communicate your brand. 00:18:31.282 --> 00:18:36.202 <v Speaker0>Because brand is not like you need to change, you need to always constantly adding something. 00:18:36.502 --> 00:18:42.682 <v Speaker0>The brand is also stay consistent, be present, be yourself, be authentic. 00:18:42.682 --> 00:18:46.002 <v Speaker0>And that's how you will build the trust and 00:18:46.002 --> 00:18:50.782 <v Speaker0>trust is an emotional thing which comes from biological aspect and we are basically 00:18:50.782 --> 00:18:57.162 <v Speaker0>all wired emotionally i mean we have like five seven basic emotions then we 00:18:57.162 --> 00:19:03.262 <v Speaker0>have like 25 27 like the rough one and 100 plus emotional components which are adding so, 00:19:03.922 --> 00:19:08.602 <v Speaker0>we we are not like reasonable creature we are like emotional so the trust is 00:19:08.602 --> 00:19:12.022 <v Speaker0>like one thing that it's like, again, human-to-human communication. 00:19:12.802 --> 00:19:18.022 <v Speaker0>And again, like to go a little bit deeper to the question you asked, 00:19:18.342 --> 00:19:26.582 <v Speaker0>how to stay authentic or should the brand change to the current trends or to the current settings? 00:19:26.642 --> 00:19:31.302 <v Speaker0>I would say yes, they need to be flexible enough, but not too much because they 00:19:31.302 --> 00:19:33.482 <v Speaker0>will lose their own personality. 00:19:34.898 --> 00:19:41.778 <v Speaker1>Um, if I would wrap up, no, no, we're not at the end. 00:19:42.078 --> 00:19:45.898 <v Speaker1>Would I wrap up, have to wrap up everything you said in one sentence, 00:19:46.238 --> 00:19:49.558 <v Speaker1>guys, you're doing marketing for people or not, and not Vulcans. 00:19:50.138 --> 00:19:53.418 <v Speaker0>To wrap up would be definitely the brand. 00:19:53.578 --> 00:19:59.058 <v Speaker1>What happens when a startup's external brand is stronger than its internal one? 00:19:59.178 --> 00:20:01.438 <v Speaker1>And how do consumers resonate with that? 00:20:02.038 --> 00:20:08.558 <v Speaker0>Resonates, consumers resonates. with external branding by trust, 00:20:08.858 --> 00:20:11.178 <v Speaker0>by believing in branding. 00:20:11.618 --> 00:20:17.378 <v Speaker0>It's one amazing study among many of them, 00:20:18.298 --> 00:20:29.938 <v Speaker0>humanizing brands that the same brain area activates as we would talk to a close person. 00:20:30.458 --> 00:20:40.158 <v Speaker0>So meaning that external branding, consumers are also feeling betrayed at some 00:20:40.158 --> 00:20:48.598 <v Speaker0>point if external branding is not orchestrated good or internal branding is not like polished good. 00:20:48.598 --> 00:20:54.118 <v Speaker0>So meaning when consumers come across to several brands or like communication 00:20:54.118 --> 00:20:58.398 <v Speaker0>points, they might feel rejected, 00:20:58.818 --> 00:21:03.938 <v Speaker0>they might feel insulted, or they might felt also like betrayal because the 00:21:03.938 --> 00:21:06.538 <v Speaker0>brand did not fulfill one of their needs. 00:21:07.278 --> 00:21:13.158 <v Speaker0>This could be like when they reach to customer service and they had to wait 00:21:13.158 --> 00:21:17.058 <v Speaker0>for like half an hour or like the customer service person was a little bit rude 00:21:17.058 --> 00:21:20.238 <v Speaker0>because that's a human tool on the other end. 00:21:20.398 --> 00:21:25.958 <v Speaker0>And he had like a bad day and he replied really, I don't know, too emotional. 00:21:26.318 --> 00:21:31.598 <v Speaker0>And the consumer felt like betrayal because the brand did not fulfill one of the needs. 00:21:31.598 --> 00:21:38.858 <v Speaker0>And external branding is one of the crucial points when it comes to communication, 00:21:38.858 --> 00:21:43.998 <v Speaker0>because everything is based on trust. 00:21:44.238 --> 00:21:51.018 <v Speaker0>And when the trust is there, we are emotionally open to accept new things, 00:21:51.138 --> 00:21:53.918 <v Speaker0>to accept the brand, to be part of the brand. 00:21:54.158 --> 00:21:59.218 <v Speaker0>But when something does not go along, of course, we pull back a little bit, 00:21:59.218 --> 00:22:01.278 <v Speaker0>we are not interested anymore. 00:22:01.598 --> 00:22:06.018 <v Speaker0>Or in the worst case scenario, we go to other brands. 00:22:07.477 --> 00:22:14.737 <v Speaker0>But this everything could be prevented if at the beginning startups would, 00:22:15.957 --> 00:22:26.837 <v Speaker0>pour much more time into it to to build this warmth through human communication consume you have been. 00:22:26.837 --> 00:22:32.937 <v Speaker1>Talking about biological branding activating certain areas of the brain certain 00:22:32.937 --> 00:22:41.477 <v Speaker1>regions, how branding activates brain regions, and what's happening from the biological aspects. 00:22:42.137 --> 00:22:45.117 <v Speaker1>What should founders learn from this? 00:22:49.817 --> 00:22:55.797 <v Speaker0>When we dissect brains, we put them into four levels. 00:22:56.017 --> 00:23:01.497 <v Speaker0>One is spinal cord, then it's hindbrain, midbrain, forebrain, 00:23:01.637 --> 00:23:05.337 <v Speaker0>and forebrain is like 80% of capacity that we have. 00:23:06.237 --> 00:23:13.997 <v Speaker0>And in forebrain, we have also the limbic system, which operates emotionally. 00:23:14.357 --> 00:23:22.657 <v Speaker0>So we have the hippocampus, which is part of, and in our limbic system, 00:23:22.657 --> 00:23:26.597 <v Speaker0>which is in the middle of the brain, works for memory and emotion. 00:23:27.537 --> 00:23:32.257 <v Speaker0>This fellow is like in the shape of a seahorse and we have it like on both sides 00:23:32.257 --> 00:23:38.137 <v Speaker0>so we store the memories like with emotion there, how we feel about the brand, how we see. 00:23:38.317 --> 00:23:47.957 <v Speaker0>And when we talk about biological aspects, we are always wired that the final decision, 00:23:48.477 --> 00:23:54.577 <v Speaker0>comes from emotional part because that is how we react to certain messages or 00:23:54.577 --> 00:23:59.317 <v Speaker0>to brand or like what the brand wants to say, or even to communication or like 00:23:59.317 --> 00:24:01.537 <v Speaker0>interaction between humans. 00:24:03.037 --> 00:24:13.817 <v Speaker0>And biological part for startups is, it's good and founders should take one message out of, 00:24:14.957 --> 00:24:21.817 <v Speaker0>that would be good to be emotional in terms how we position the brand, 00:24:21.957 --> 00:24:24.777 <v Speaker0>how we position the messages. 00:24:25.057 --> 00:24:28.777 <v Speaker0>How we talk about the messages, how we talk about storytelling. 00:24:29.517 --> 00:24:32.217 <v Speaker0>Emotions are not always the bad things. 00:24:33.277 --> 00:24:39.097 <v Speaker0>If they use the right thing, the brand will grow because, again, 00:24:39.377 --> 00:24:40.997 <v Speaker0>everything leads to trust. 00:24:44.097 --> 00:24:48.777 <v Speaker1>We're getting close to the end. We're now talking a little bit about branding 00:24:48.777 --> 00:24:54.357 <v Speaker1>for movements. What is the difference between a typical startup, 00:24:54.577 --> 00:24:58.397 <v Speaker1>a product-led brand, and a movement-led one? 00:25:01.437 --> 00:25:08.757 <v Speaker0>I would definitely say that movement is above everything because people are 00:25:08.757 --> 00:25:10.997 <v Speaker0>reacting, people are like emotionally. 00:25:11.457 --> 00:25:17.857 <v Speaker0>And if I can give you like an example, movement, like one example that majority 00:25:17.857 --> 00:25:23.417 <v Speaker0>of us know and we can resonate is like when the Nike campaign started, 00:25:23.597 --> 00:25:25.537 <v Speaker0>just do it. That was the moment. 00:25:25.697 --> 00:25:28.277 <v Speaker0>That was not just the product. That was not just the brand. 00:25:28.737 --> 00:25:33.577 <v Speaker0>That was not just something that happened, but rather like the whole moment 00:25:33.577 --> 00:25:40.197 <v Speaker0>because just do it triggered like different population to start actually doing 00:25:40.197 --> 00:25:43.657 <v Speaker0>something, to go to the gym, to have a new job, 00:25:44.177 --> 00:25:47.377 <v Speaker0>to find a new partner, to start a family. 00:25:47.377 --> 00:25:52.637 <v Speaker0>And that was the moment that grew. And the beauty of this is that the brand 00:25:52.637 --> 00:25:57.417 <v Speaker0>still stick with this slogan because it's, again, built on trust. 00:25:57.817 --> 00:26:06.937 <v Speaker0>And movement is something that startups can start at the beginning of the journey. 00:26:07.997 --> 00:26:11.697 <v Speaker0>Because they don't talk just about the product, about the service that they 00:26:11.697 --> 00:26:13.197 <v Speaker0>are trying to position on the market, 00:26:13.197 --> 00:26:20.197 <v Speaker0>but rather like this product or this service will help you to live your life 00:26:20.197 --> 00:26:26.457 <v Speaker0>better or at least to have more emotional part components to it, 00:26:27.177 --> 00:26:34.117 <v Speaker0>which is beyond just having a product or selling a product or like offering the product. 00:26:38.057 --> 00:26:40.857 <v Speaker1>We're getting to the last question 00:26:40.857 --> 00:26:44.777 <v Speaker1>of an interview here, a little bit of reflections during the closing. 00:26:45.257 --> 00:26:52.717 <v Speaker1>What's one belief about branding you wish every founder knew from day one? 00:26:53.577 --> 00:27:02.757 <v Speaker0>One believes it's definitely to work more on human-to-humor, on invisible branding. 00:27:02.757 --> 00:27:06.397 <v Speaker0>To have more human connection, 00:27:07.277 --> 00:27:20.937 <v Speaker0>less words, less text, but rather like brand can be extremely impactful if there's a true connection, 00:27:21.257 --> 00:27:24.977 <v Speaker0>if there's something meaningful and how to reach the consumers. 00:27:27.247 --> 00:27:29.287 <v Speaker1>Actually awesome closing words. 00:27:29.487 --> 00:27:34.867 <v Speaker1>And keep in mind, guys, you're not doing branding for robots or Vulcans. 00:27:36.147 --> 00:27:40.667 <v Speaker1>Just realize a lot of people who don't know Star Trek wouldn't know what a Vulcan is. 00:27:41.767 --> 00:27:49.247 <v Speaker1>Mr. Spock, you're making marketing for people, humans, and you should touch 00:27:49.247 --> 00:27:53.927 <v Speaker1>them at an emotional in place. Would that be about right, Jacob? 00:27:54.407 --> 00:28:00.627 <v Speaker0>I would agree 100%. We are talking about human beings. 00:28:00.807 --> 00:28:02.707 <v Speaker0>We are talking about people. 00:28:03.167 --> 00:28:07.607 <v Speaker0>And in this area, this is the fantastic opportunity because I know that startups, 00:28:07.847 --> 00:28:15.047 <v Speaker0>I know all the CEOs, investors have a fantastic product that are worth to see the daylight. 00:28:15.947 --> 00:28:21.227 <v Speaker0>And sometimes the pity is because they don't know how to reach the consumers 00:28:21.227 --> 00:28:28.547 <v Speaker0>with an awesome product or they are using the wrong words or they're using the wrong aspects. 00:28:30.627 --> 00:28:40.107 <v Speaker0>This could be done internally in the team, be authentic and talk humans. 00:28:41.207 --> 00:28:43.307 <v Speaker0>That's how the belief starts. 00:28:43.967 --> 00:28:49.367 <v Speaker1>Talk to humans. I think a very good last sentence. 00:28:49.647 --> 00:28:52.907 <v Speaker1>Jacob, Thank you very much. It was a pleasure having you as a guest. 00:28:53.047 --> 00:28:57.747 <v Speaker0>Thank you very much. It was really nice to talk with you, and I wish you all the best. Thank you. 00:28:58.327 --> 00:28:59.747 <v Speaker1>Thank you. Same here. Bye-bye. 00:29:00.560 --> 00:29:30.289 <v Music>