Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Evil Has A Tattoo Face - The Death of Two Women

Transcript

Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Evil Has A Tattoo Face - The Death of Two Women · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Body dies with Joseph's gotten more. When I was a
0:07
Speaker 1: little boy, very little, I lived in this kind of
0:11
Speaker 1: old ramshackled house that my great grandfather had built. It
0:16
Speaker 1: had been a stonemason. The floors were all poured concrete,
0:25
Speaker 1: smooth and cold under your feet. In my bedroom was
0:32
Speaker 1: immediately adjacent to my mama's room. Everything creaked in that house.
0:43
Speaker 1: And when I was little, I had an issue with nightmares,
0:49
Speaker 1: and there was one nightmare that was repeated. I don't
0:54
Speaker 1: know if any of y'all have these that kind of
0:57
Speaker 1: reoccur over and over in your mind. When I was little,
1:02
Speaker 1: there was a nightmare that I would have that involved,
1:06
Speaker 1: of all things, the legs of the wicked Witch of
1:12
Speaker 1: the East, not the West. Do you remember those legs
1:17
Speaker 1: from the Wizard of Oz. They're sticking out from beneath
1:21
Speaker 1: Dorothy's house that landed on her, the striped stockings, the
1:26
Speaker 1: red shoes. And my nightmare involved those legs hanging from
1:35
Speaker 1: the ceiling and the room would spin and they would
1:38
Speaker 1: just dangle over me. When I was little, and it
1:43
Speaker 1: still at the age that I am now, those memories
1:48
Speaker 1: still inhabit my thoughts. Today. We're going to talk about
1:58
Speaker 1: some cases that involved something else that seems like it's
2:03
Speaker 1: made up. It seems like maybe it's cartoonish, but the
2:09
Speaker 1: reality is this, The person behind this evil may appear
2:15
Speaker 1: like an arch villain in some kind of superhero comic,
2:23
Speaker 1: but let me assure you he's real and his name
2:32
Speaker 1: is Wade Wilson. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is
2:39
Speaker 1: bodybacks brother, Dave. I guess it was probably, I don't know,
2:48
Speaker 1: a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, I
2:52
Speaker 1: sent you an image and I told you at the
2:55
Speaker 1: time I asked you, I said, this this person look
3:02
Speaker 1: like look like a character from the Batman.
3:07
Speaker 2: Universe, the Joker from Batman.
3:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the Joker. You know who else I thought about? Actually,
3:13
Speaker 1: I thought about Tommy Lee Jones as two Face as well,
3:18
Speaker 1: because I got to tell you when when I saw
3:20
Speaker 1: these images, I'm thinking, first off, what were you thinking,
3:26
Speaker 1: you know, when you disfigure yourself like this? Because this
3:30
Speaker 1: individual has got these he's being referred to as the.
3:33
Speaker 2: Tattoo Face guy, Wade Wilson Tattoo Face because Wade Wilson
3:37
Speaker 2: sounds like a made up name. It sounds like something
3:39
Speaker 2: out of Marvel comics. You know, Bruce Banner, Well it doesn't.
3:42
Speaker 1: Hey, look, actually, Wade Wilson is Deadpool's name in the
3:49
Speaker 1: Marvel in the Marvel universe. So yeah, I mean, we've
3:52
Speaker 1: got I don't know what, what did the fancy academic
3:56
Speaker 1: types say, we've got synergy here?
3:59
Speaker 2: Oh?
3:59
Speaker 1: Wow? And yeah, and it goes to a level of
4:02
Speaker 1: evil that is inexplicable. Maybe on one level, it's absolutely
4:10
Speaker 1: terrifying when you see this guy. And that's why I
4:14
Speaker 1: started out talking about my memories as a child, because
4:19
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine, first off, sitting across the table
4:23
Speaker 1: from this guy having a cup of coffee, much less
4:26
Speaker 1: if you're some kind of young child or a person
4:29
Speaker 1: that's in an intimate position, maybe he's tucking you into
4:32
Speaker 1: bed and this guy is leaning over you. Can you imagine.
4:35
Speaker 2: Worst night mare? The thing is is you have to think,
4:39
Speaker 2: and I do. I think, what made you think this
4:42
Speaker 2: was a good idea? Look, Mike Tyson gets the tattoo
4:45
Speaker 2: on his face. He can do that because anybody looks
4:48
Speaker 2: at him sideways either loses an ear or their face.
4:51
Speaker 2: One of the two is gone because he's Mike Tyson.
4:54
Speaker 2: But for the rest of us, no, you know, when
4:56
Speaker 2: you at a certain point in time, tattoos kind of
5:00
Speaker 2: lose their coolness when you've got weird stuff going on,
5:03
Speaker 2: and Wade Wilson has weird stuff going on. It's so weird.
5:07
Speaker 2: In fact, this is a guy who is accused of
5:09
Speaker 2: committing too heinous murders back to back. Depending on who's
5:14
Speaker 2: writing the story, it either happened in a matter of
5:16
Speaker 2: hours or a matter of days'ling. I'm boggled by that.
5:19
Speaker 2: How do reporters get it so wrong?
5:22
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know if they're getting you know,
5:24
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes I think that given the energy surrounding cases,
5:32
Speaker 1: it's almost as if people get into a feeding frenzy. Yeah,
5:36
Speaker 1: you know, like if you've ever seen you don't have
5:38
Speaker 1: to see sharks to see a feeding frenzy. I've been
5:41
Speaker 1: fishing out in the Gulf and you know, catching redfish before,
5:44
Speaker 1: and they get into a feeding frenzy. Everybody's going to
5:47
Speaker 1: idea you're you know, you're you're disoriented, you don't know
5:51
Speaker 1: what's going on, You're not oriented to the location you're in.
5:55
Speaker 1: And because I think, first off, you talk about from
5:58
Speaker 1: a journalist standpoint, these cases have everything that I think
6:03
Speaker 1: somebody in the news media is looking for. You've got
6:06
Speaker 1: this oddball guy who is just uber violent and seems
6:13
Speaker 1: like he is out of control. And it's the stuff
6:15
Speaker 1: that it's the stuff that nightmares truly. I mean, I'm
6:18
Speaker 1: guilty of it. I just made a comment about it.
6:21
Speaker 1: The stuff that nightmares are made of.
6:23
Speaker 2: And David Joe, if you're going to put tattoos on
6:26
Speaker 2: your face that are menacing, that are okay, you put
6:29
Speaker 2: a swashtika on your face, it tells me a lot
6:31
Speaker 2: of things about you as a person, and none of
6:33
Speaker 2: them are good. So if you're going to be tried,
6:37
Speaker 2: which he has, and that's why we're talking about Wade Wilson,
6:39
Speaker 2: accused of killing two women and he goes to trial,
6:42
Speaker 2: and what is one of the first things his defense
6:44
Speaker 2: wants to do. They want him to be able to
6:46
Speaker 2: cover up these tattoos on his face because the imagery
6:51
Speaker 2: for the jury might be too much. And I'm thinking, yeah,
6:54
Speaker 2: you're the one that did this exactly. How No, I
6:58
Speaker 2: don't think you get to hide those is they tell
7:00
Speaker 2: us a lot about who you are, and uh, you know,
7:03
Speaker 2: but that's just me. They did give him permission because
7:07
Speaker 2: our system of justice leans heavily towards the accused, which
7:12
Speaker 2: if you're wrongly accused, you can appreciate that. But if
7:15
Speaker 2: you're a murderer, I don't think you get that. You know,
7:18
Speaker 2: I want to play. I want to play not nice.
7:20
Speaker 2: I say, no, you killed these people. I know we're
7:22
Speaker 2: going to trial. But you did it. We know you
7:24
Speaker 2: did it.
7:24
Speaker 1: You know, well you know on that on that point,
7:27
Speaker 1: you know you you were so willing and uh on
7:30
Speaker 1: the outside you to get it done and not just
7:34
Speaker 1: getting paid to get, not just paying to get. You're
7:37
Speaker 1: embracing it. Mat you know, you're projecting this thing out there. Hey,
7:41
Speaker 1: go all in, dude, just embrace it. This is who
7:43
Speaker 1: you are. This is who you are. And I got
7:46
Speaker 1: to tell you, you know, watching the trial as I have,
7:51
Speaker 1: he's he's devoid of like any kind of emotion about it.
7:55
Speaker 1: He's very cold, calculating and one of the one of
8:02
Speaker 1: the fascinating things about this whole thing is just hold
8:07
Speaker 1: on to your hat here for a second. All right.
8:10
Speaker 1: He's claiming that both of these victims he's being set up.
8:17
Speaker 1: He was being set up by a human trafficking ring,
8:23
Speaker 1: which he states he was a part of. So you're
8:27
Speaker 1: going to go there. So yeah, let's let's just further,
8:31
Speaker 1: you know, go down the spectrum. So you're you claim
8:34
Speaker 1: that you're involved in human trafficking, and that's your that's
8:38
Speaker 1: one of the albis that you're and that you're being
8:40
Speaker 1: framed for doing this. You know, I don't know. I
8:44
Speaker 1: you know, I think about the scales of justice in
8:46
Speaker 1: my mind and it doesn't have anything to do with justice.
8:48
Speaker 1: It's like, on balance, you're thinking, Okay, now do I
8:51
Speaker 1: want to go down this dark path of human trafficking
8:54
Speaker 1: in order to escape? Escape? Now he's in Florida. They've
9:00
Speaker 1: kind of got an express laying down there compared to
9:02
Speaker 1: all other sites relative to the death penalty. You're talking
9:05
Speaker 1: about it. You're talking about two homicides, and he's got
9:08
Speaker 1: an agg assault on him as well and his girlfriend.
9:13
Speaker 1: So you're going, you your choice is to go with
9:15
Speaker 1: the human trafficking thing in your frame, you know, is
9:17
Speaker 1: that what you're saying?
9:18
Speaker 2: That's it? It was? You know, do you remember the
9:21
Speaker 2: murder of Molly Tibbets. Yes, Molly Tibbets college girl twenty
9:26
Speaker 2: years old Brooklyn I of Iowa. And she goes out
9:30
Speaker 2: for a run and while she's on this run, she
9:35
Speaker 2: is attacked by an illegal immigrant and he kills her,
9:42
Speaker 2: but he says he does he blacked out. The whole
9:45
Speaker 2: blackout thing gets me on a lot of these guys
9:47
Speaker 2: who admit. And the reason I'm sharing this with you
9:49
Speaker 2: very quickly is because he made the same claim that
9:52
Speaker 2: he was a victim, that these human traffickers had kidnapped
9:57
Speaker 2: him and forced him to drive his own car to
10:03
Speaker 2: get Molly Tibbitts so they could traffic her, and that
10:08
Speaker 2: he was made to do all this by these traffickers.
10:10
Speaker 2: That was his excuse. So it's not like Wade Wilson,
10:13
Speaker 2: the tattoo face guy, even came up with an original
10:16
Speaker 2: lie to tell you know, he copied Molly Tibbitts guy.
10:19
Speaker 2: That's because it's pretty much the same thing. I'm the victim.
10:22
Speaker 2: I was kidnapped, I was threatened, I was beaten to
10:25
Speaker 2: do this to somebody else. But getting into the reality here,
10:29
Speaker 2: we've got Wade Wilson, tattoo Face, accused of murdering two women,
10:34
Speaker 2: and for no reason, by the way, not any reason,
10:39
Speaker 2: like there's never a reason to kill somebody, but I'm
10:41
Speaker 2: talking about it wasn't in the commission of a crime.
10:44
Speaker 2: It wasn't where he was defending himself or them. It
10:48
Speaker 2: wasn't in a gunfight of the Ok Corral or a
10:50
Speaker 2: car wreck. This was Wade Wilson, tattoo face, meeting a
10:57
Speaker 2: woman in a bar and striking up a conversation that
11:02
Speaker 2: becomes very friendly. And you know, there are times we
11:06
Speaker 2: make bad decisions in our life, and we all have
11:11
Speaker 2: been victimized or not victimized. We have all created bad
11:14
Speaker 2: situations for ourselves by making bad decisions.
11:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
11:17
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And what Wade Wilson did that night was take
11:21
Speaker 2: advantage of somebody else who needed a companion, looking for
11:25
Speaker 2: help emotionally, just looking for a shoulder to cry on,
11:28
Speaker 2: looking for somebody to talk to, somebody to come. You know,
11:31
Speaker 2: we're a lonely group of people. We are the United
11:34
Speaker 2: States of America in general, very lonely people. We have
11:37
Speaker 2: way too much stuff, We have way too much entertainment,
11:40
Speaker 2: We have way too many things that our brains are
11:42
Speaker 2: constantly being fed information, entertainment, and sometimes that leaves us
11:49
Speaker 2: vulnerable because we crave companionship with one on one person
11:55
Speaker 2: so much so that we forget, you know, because we
11:57
Speaker 2: could go days Joe with never action seeing anybody face
12:01
Speaker 2: to face, you know, through text, email, phone, we really
12:06
Speaker 2: can and eventually your body cries out for this. I
12:08
Speaker 2: got to have human contact, and sometimes you reach out
12:11
Speaker 2: for the wrong person. And in this particular case, Wade
12:14
Speaker 2: Wilson was that wrong person.
12:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was, and an interesting Dave, almost chameleon like.
12:20
Speaker 1: We talk about this connection that we want, perhaps and
12:24
Speaker 1: it makes us vulnerable. But in this particular case, we've
12:29
Speaker 1: got a guide that is camouflaged with these kind of
12:35
Speaker 1: horrific images on his face. But yet what lie just
12:42
Speaker 1: beneath the surface of his skin is far more evil
12:47
Speaker 1: than anything that was displayed externally. Dave, you had mentioned
13:07
Speaker 1: just a moment ago swastikas on the face.
13:12
Speaker 2: Just below his right eye talking about Wade Wilson.
13:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wade Wilson actually does have a small swastika beneath
13:22
Speaker 1: the right eye. It's uh, it's about I don't know.
13:26
Speaker 1: I'd just make probably about an inch and a half.
13:29
Speaker 2: You see a person like this like Wade Wilson, with
13:31
Speaker 2: the tattoos and some objectionable tattoos, there's no real excuse
13:36
Speaker 2: for a swastika on your face. Okay, how are you
13:38
Speaker 2: going to explain that I used to be stupid and
13:41
Speaker 2: now i'm not. You know, because if that's the case,
13:44
Speaker 2: then why don't you do something to make it look different?
13:47
Speaker 1: Yeah?
13:47
Speaker 2: And short of that, I'm sorry, I'm not sitting with you.
13:51
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not thought why would I want to
13:53
Speaker 2: r right? Anyway? But somehow he's able to play that,
13:58
Speaker 2: and he's able to get the attention of Estein Melton.
14:01
Speaker 2: He starts with her. She's thirty five, beautiful woman. She's
14:04
Speaker 2: having a couple of drinks, having an adult beverage or two,
14:07
Speaker 2: and strikes up a conversation with this guy who seems
14:11
Speaker 2: pleasant enough. Maybe that's the thing. The tattoos are off putting.
14:15
Speaker 2: And then you find out, wait a minute, this guy
14:16
Speaker 2: actually communicates like a regular person. All of a sudden,
14:21
Speaker 2: you know, now it's interesting, why do you have that?
14:25
Speaker 2: And so they strike up a conversation, have a couple
14:27
Speaker 2: more drinks. One thing leads to another, and somehow he
14:32
Speaker 2: is able and I believe he's a master manipulator. Wade
14:35
Speaker 2: Wilson is able to manipulate Christine Melton into allowing him
14:40
Speaker 2: into her home. It could have been let's just finish
14:44
Speaker 2: the conversation like to get to know you better, you know,
14:46
Speaker 2: have a cup of coffee. Could have been that simple.
14:49
Speaker 2: Didn't end up that way, but he did meet her
14:53
Speaker 2: in a bar and then went back to her place.
14:56
Speaker 2: All of that willingly from what we have been told,
14:59
Speaker 2: that Christie melt and went and invited him back to
15:02
Speaker 2: her place. What happened to her is the beginning of
15:09
Speaker 2: their twenty four hour period of crime that is still
15:15
Speaker 2: hurting people to this day.
15:18
Speaker 1: And it will for years and years to come. You know,
15:23
Speaker 1: we see this a lot in these cases where you know,
15:26
Speaker 1: I've used the analogy of throwing you know, throwing a
15:30
Speaker 1: rock into this beautiful kind of placid pond, and those
15:35
Speaker 1: waves that go out from that disruption wind up like this.
15:40
Speaker 1: This guy is in fact the stuff of nightmares. And
15:45
Speaker 1: here's the thing about it, the methodology. I think that
15:49
Speaker 1: he is using to allure, because this is a case
15:53
Speaker 1: of luring. And I think that this comes down to
15:57
Speaker 1: his if he you know, and I've thought about this,
16:02
Speaker 1: could he have used this self induced disfigurement in order
16:08
Speaker 1: to try to tell some kind of sad story, you know,
16:12
Speaker 1: because how else could you explain it? How use could
16:14
Speaker 1: you use this to your advantage? With somebody that might
16:18
Speaker 1: be vulnerable, to get them in, to have them take
16:21
Speaker 1: a bite of the apple, if you will, to get
16:24
Speaker 1: in their space. And that's an absolutely horrifying because that's
16:28
Speaker 1: the only way that this could really ever be explained.
16:34
Speaker 1: And so what we know is that when.
16:37
Speaker 2: He got back to her apartment.
16:42
Speaker 1: There was an intimate interval. We do know that, and
16:48
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, and we don't know what kind of
16:51
Speaker 1: flip the switch. I don't know that we ever do, Dave,
16:53
Speaker 1: in any of these cases, what kind of flip the
16:56
Speaker 1: switch for this guy to become and react so violently
17:00
Speaker 1: When you begin to think about Christine Melton.
17:03
Speaker 2: I tend to think sometimes, Joe, that you and I
17:08
Speaker 2: come at it, and most of us, we come at
17:09
Speaker 2: it from a rational standpoint of how we process information,
17:13
Speaker 2: how we react to things, and we try to fit
17:17
Speaker 2: the criminal or the crime into our understanding. Yes, but
17:22
Speaker 2: the criminal or the crime in these cases, they're not
17:25
Speaker 2: something that you and I can act, or most of
17:27
Speaker 2: us could even imagine. It's kind of like, who would
17:30
Speaker 2: go with Charles Manson anywhere? He's a short, stinky, bearded,
17:35
Speaker 2: thirty eight year old dude out of prison kind of thing. Well,
17:37
Speaker 2: a lot of people did same thing here with tattoof face.
17:40
Speaker 2: Wade Wilson somehow he's able to get Christine Melton. They
17:47
Speaker 2: go back to her place, and the next morning when
17:49
Speaker 2: they're up, he for whatever reason, strangles her. He kills
17:54
Speaker 2: Christine Melton for no reason, apparently, just that he wanted
17:58
Speaker 2: to kill somebody, which takes us back to the Johnny
18:00
Speaker 2: Cash song. I shot him in in Reno just to
18:03
Speaker 2: watch him die. I hate to think that that's what
18:07
Speaker 2: Wade Wilson did that. He just said, I want to
18:12
Speaker 2: know what it's like.
18:13
Speaker 1: Well, I think you've I think you have kind of
18:17
Speaker 1: reinforced what the state Attorney General said in this particular case,
18:21
Speaker 1: because he's he is. In the closing arguments in Wade
18:27
Speaker 1: Wilson's case. The State Attorney General said that this case
18:33
Speaker 1: was about now just hanging on, just let this kind
18:36
Speaker 1: of bore down into your soul. It's a case about
18:38
Speaker 1: killing for the sake of killing, Dave, you know who
18:42
Speaker 1: who who does that? Who would want to do that?
18:45
Speaker 1: But yet we have examples of this, you know throughout
18:50
Speaker 1: history of people that go out killing for the sake
18:53
Speaker 1: of killing. You and I had a conversation off air
18:57
Speaker 1: just a few minutes ago where we you know, I
19:00
Speaker 1: actually stated to you that there's nothing new under the sun.
19:05
Speaker 1: You know, it goes back forever and ever. But I
19:07
Speaker 1: think that when we see someone that would be willing
19:11
Speaker 1: to go back to a total stranger's house, engage in
19:16
Speaker 1: intimate relations with them, and then, oh, it's kind of
19:20
Speaker 1: an afterthought. Let me see if I can't extinguish this life.
19:25
Speaker 1: You know, as he wraps his hands around her throat,
19:31
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're left and I think that, you know,
19:34
Speaker 1: that's what with this particular kind of case, this is
19:38
Speaker 1: the type of thing that makes it even more horrific
19:44
Speaker 1: because it's so randomized. Dave. You know, you're you're thinking
19:47
Speaker 1: it's you know, you had you had mentioned about trying
19:51
Speaker 1: to defend oneself against some kind of incoming violence or
19:54
Speaker 1: something like that. That's not what this is about. This is,
19:58
Speaker 1: you know, this is like going out and destroying a
20:01
Speaker 1: beautiful work of art just because you choose to do it,
20:05
Speaker 1: or just burning down someone's home because you're fascinated by fire,
20:10
Speaker 1: or you know, just going around and making other people's
20:14
Speaker 1: lives miserable. And again, this goes back to the idea
20:19
Speaker 1: that the misery that he has inflicted on both of
20:22
Speaker 1: these women is going to continue for years and years
20:25
Speaker 1: to come.
20:26
Speaker 2: Dave, when you've mentioned it that Wade Wilson, Tattoo Face
20:34
Speaker 2: and Christine Melton meet at a bar, have a few drinks,
20:38
Speaker 2: they go back to her place where they engage in
20:40
Speaker 2: sexual relations. Wade Wilson then after having this very intimate
20:45
Speaker 2: personal act with Christine Melton, Then, from what you've described
20:51
Speaker 2: many times about strangling somebody with your hands, it is
20:55
Speaker 2: the most personal type of murder. Yes, there is. How
21:01
Speaker 2: long does somebody have to have their hands around another
21:05
Speaker 2: human being to strangle the life out of them?
21:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't when you're and this guy's a big guy, Dave.
21:14
Speaker 1: When you see him, he's robust, he looks like he
21:16
Speaker 1: spends time on the wait bench. Not that that necessarily
21:20
Speaker 1: means that you're going to be like Hercules or anything.
21:25
Speaker 1: But when you take his size and you compare it
21:29
Speaker 1: to a woman of Christine's stature, she's not necessarily fragile,
21:36
Speaker 1: but she is certainly not to his level of strength.
21:41
Speaker 1: And also you have to incorporate this kind of primal
21:45
Speaker 1: thing that has arisen in him, because you know you've
21:48
Speaker 1: got and I think that all of this violence is
21:52
Speaker 1: sexual violence. That's what I think that it is. It's
21:56
Speaker 1: the driver behind it. Because, like you had stated and
22:00
Speaker 1: I previously stated, this is the most intimate of all
22:03
Speaker 1: of these kind of causes of death. The mechanism of death,
22:07
Speaker 1: if you will, this asphyxia by strangulation. As he is
22:13
Speaker 1: wrapping his hands around her neck, he's constricting the airway
22:19
Speaker 1: and in addition to that, he's constricting the vessels that
22:22
Speaker 1: are running alongside of the airway as well. Now here's
22:27
Speaker 1: what I'm really kind of wondering, did he ever adjust
22:32
Speaker 1: his hands and move from the original position, Because if
22:36
Speaker 1: you have that going on, and keep in mind, when
22:38
Speaker 1: you have two individuals that are locked in this kind
22:42
Speaker 1: of violence with one another, and you have this asymmetrical
22:45
Speaker 1: relationship where you've got this dominant individual over her, he
22:51
Speaker 1: has the ability to And I've worked a series of
22:56
Speaker 1: serial killings, actually, Dave that involved a groat where a
23:02
Speaker 1: guy would uh wrap it around ladies' throats as he's
23:08
Speaker 1: sexually assaulting her and uh, you know, tighten it down,
23:11
Speaker 1: then release, tighten, release, and they will allow them to
23:15
Speaker 1: regain their breath just for a moment and it increases,
23:19
Speaker 1: uh the horror factor here because they're allowed to breathe again,
23:23
Speaker 1: and then it's it's they're robbed of it again. So
23:27
Speaker 1: I think that in this dominant position, you have the
23:30
Speaker 1: ability to do it. He's he's enjoying this. He truly is.
23:34
Speaker 1: And I don't want to get too far off into
23:36
Speaker 1: the kind of psycho uh you know, uh analysis here
23:41
Speaker 1: and all of the profiling types of stuff that go
23:43
Speaker 1: on with this, but you can see evidence of this
23:46
Speaker 1: many times, uh the level of violence. There'll also be
23:51
Speaker 1: blunt force trauma many times associated with this, because as
23:54
Speaker 1: you're in a dominant position over them, you can rain
23:58
Speaker 1: down multiple stripes on an individual their face. So you'll
24:02
Speaker 1: see this level of kind of disfigurement that takes place,
24:05
Speaker 1: broken nose, blackened eyes, You'll get these raccoon eyes and
24:11
Speaker 1: these individuals. Because then that gives you an indication that
24:14
Speaker 1: the that the facial the bony structures of the face
24:18
Speaker 1: have been have been damaged and fractured as well. That
24:22
Speaker 1: also gives you an idea with the swelling. Dave and
24:24
Speaker 1: you know this having these conversations with me, that the
24:29
Speaker 1: person lived, they lived long enough to have an inflammatory
24:32
Speaker 1: reaction to the strikes. And again that's that is quite revealing.
24:38
Speaker 1: But at the end, you know, when you're talking about
24:42
Speaker 1: this poor woman, he's attacking her in her own home
24:46
Speaker 1: where she generally would feel safe. And of course when
24:52
Speaker 1: he starts this attack and finishes it, he still has
24:58
Speaker 1: one more person that he is going to to rain
25:00
Speaker 1: tear down the pot. Isn't that enough? In Wade Wilson's case,
25:19
Speaker 1: apparently it wasn't. That's a question I think that most
25:22
Speaker 1: right thinking people might have a desire to ask, is
25:27
Speaker 1: it wasn't that enough? You've snuffed out the life of
25:34
Speaker 1: this precious woman, Christine Milton, She's thirty five years old.
25:39
Speaker 1: You've snuffed her life out. You've come into her own
25:42
Speaker 1: little space that she had set up for herself, a
25:46
Speaker 1: place of safety, and you wreak have it in that environment.
25:52
Speaker 1: But why wasn't that enough? After you had done brutally
25:56
Speaker 1: killing her? You move on to a forty three year
26:00
Speaker 1: a woman, Diane or Ruis.
26:02
Speaker 2: But before he does that, Joe he's trying to figure
26:06
Speaker 2: out what to do. It was not a well thought
26:09
Speaker 2: out plan. He merely meets Christine Melton, goes back to
26:14
Speaker 2: her place, spends in this time with her and then
26:16
Speaker 2: strangles her, kills her. He tries to roll her up
26:19
Speaker 2: in some carpet. He knows he's got to do something,
26:21
Speaker 2: but he had waited long enough that rigor mortis, roger
26:27
Speaker 2: mortis had set in and she was not easy to maneuver.
26:31
Speaker 2: I saw that, and I thought he talks about like this,
26:35
Speaker 2: like it's nothing. Joe, Yeah, And that was his first thought,
26:39
Speaker 2: was rolling her up in carpet. Again. It wasn't enough.
26:47
Speaker 2: He was still maybe this is what started him. Maybe
26:51
Speaker 2: maybe this was this killing was too quiet for him.
26:55
Speaker 2: Maybe this killing merely just let his whistle, and he
26:59
Speaker 2: decided it's time for more, because he steals her car
27:04
Speaker 2: and starts going down the road, leaving her dead body
27:07
Speaker 2: back in her place. But he takes her car. He's
27:10
Speaker 2: going down the road and he sees he sees a
27:14
Speaker 2: mother of two. She's forty three years old. She's walking,
27:21
Speaker 2: just walking to work. That's all she's doing. She was
27:24
Speaker 2: minding her own business, trying to support her family. When
27:27
Speaker 2: she comes in contact with Wade Wilson tattoo Face, who
27:31
Speaker 2: has committed a murder in the previous hours. He asks
27:37
Speaker 2: her directions, not because he needs to know anything. He
27:40
Speaker 2: does it because he's.
27:41
Speaker 1: Going to kill her, feeding frenzy.
27:43
Speaker 2: He sees her on the side walking and decides, I'm
27:47
Speaker 2: going to kill her. That switch you said, feeding frenzy,
27:51
Speaker 2: that switch that got flipped when he killed Christine Melton.
27:57
Speaker 2: He's got to kill more, and he does. He gets
28:01
Speaker 2: her in the car Joe. And there's some debate as
28:04
Speaker 2: to how he got Diane Ruis in his car. Did
28:08
Speaker 2: he manipulate her in? Did he offer her a ride?
28:11
Speaker 2: You know? Did he coax her, Hey, I'll give you ride.
28:15
Speaker 2: Short walk It's October in Florida. You know, it might
28:18
Speaker 2: have something warm. Maybe she had a long walk. I
28:20
Speaker 2: don't know, but I know this, somehow, some way, he
28:24
Speaker 2: got her in the car. Some suggest that once he
28:26
Speaker 2: got her close to the car, he pulled her in
28:29
Speaker 2: and immediately strangled her, which I think the reason. Some
28:33
Speaker 2: hope that there was something else going on, that maybe
28:36
Speaker 2: he coerced her into getting in the car. That that
28:40
Speaker 2: seems to be more palliative, but you know, easier to
28:42
Speaker 2: understand than was something. I tend to be of the belief,
28:46
Speaker 2: based on he had just killed Christine Melton, that once
28:50
Speaker 2: Diane Rui's got close enough to the car, nobody's riding
28:53
Speaker 2: around him. In a spur of the moment, he grabs
28:55
Speaker 2: her by the throat, pulls her in and starts strangling
28:59
Speaker 2: her ride away. That's just my thought. I have no
29:02
Speaker 2: evidence to go on that. That's just what I think
29:04
Speaker 2: based on what some police reports say.
29:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. And here's the thing. It seems as
29:11
Speaker 1: though Dave that and I'd love to hear what you
29:15
Speaker 1: think about this, that when he leaves Christine Melton's place
29:20
Speaker 1: and he's in her vehicle, this attack on miss Ruiz,
29:27
Speaker 1: it escalates, doesn't it. It seems like it goes to
29:32
Speaker 1: a higher level of violence at this point in time
29:37
Speaker 1: because of what we know of what happened to her
29:42
Speaker 1: remains and the way her body was treated in the
29:45
Speaker 1: post mortem state.
29:47
Speaker 2: Well, you know what we found out about Christine Milton.
29:49
Speaker 2: We know that they met, we're cordial, engage, you know,
29:54
Speaker 2: to the point of developing a quick relationship, and then
29:58
Speaker 2: he strangled her. And my thought was it was a surprise.
30:02
Speaker 2: She didn't know what's happening, and you know, it was
30:04
Speaker 2: over fairly quickly. Diane Ruiz gets strangled right off the bat,
30:11
Speaker 2: and he thinks he has killed her, and he's thinking, well,
30:13
Speaker 2: what am I going to do with her body? He
30:15
Speaker 2: is thinking that. It's then that he realizes, Joe, she's
30:19
Speaker 2: not dead. She took a breath. His first thought was not, oh,
30:25
Speaker 2: I got to strangle her again. She's coming back. I
30:28
Speaker 2: got That was not his first thought. His first thought,
30:31
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, was to take Diane Ruiz, to throw
30:36
Speaker 2: her out of the car and drive over her, not once,
30:43
Speaker 2: driving over her body over and over and over again.
30:52
Speaker 2: Remember he strangled her inside the car. She survives over
30:58
Speaker 2: kill time. And we know this information. Two ways won
31:04
Speaker 2: her body, the physical body itself. We do know medical
31:08
Speaker 2: examiner told us what happened there in terms of the
31:10
Speaker 2: actual injuries. We know his thought process because of a
31:14
Speaker 2: conversation he had with his biological father, Joseph Scott Morgan.
31:19
Speaker 2: Have you ever, in your death investigator days, dealt with
31:25
Speaker 2: anything close to what tattoo faced Wade Wilson did to
31:29
Speaker 2: Diana Ruiz.
31:30
Speaker 1: I don't think so, not with a car. I was
31:31
Speaker 1: actually reflecting on that and where the individual is taking
31:39
Speaker 1: the vehicle and going backwards and forwards over this poor
31:46
Speaker 1: woman's body. And you know, you think about the reality
31:54
Speaker 1: of this. This is the ultimate in defiling a human
32:00
Speaker 1: and at a very very primal level. And what what
32:06
Speaker 1: I guess. I guess someone that was you know, uh,
32:10
Speaker 1: that was analyzing this from a psychological standpoint might say, well,
32:14
Speaker 1: it wasn't just to cover up, you know, evidence, because
32:18
Speaker 1: as you know, as I hold uh and you and
32:21
Speaker 1: I have talked about this, Dave, if you try to
32:25
Speaker 1: destroy a body with fire or you know, you're trying
32:28
Speaker 1: to dismember it, which lord, we've had enough of those,
32:32
Speaker 1: haveping we Dave, the level of violence that you're talking about,
32:39
Speaker 1: it goes so far beyond uh, what you're what you
32:43
Speaker 1: did initially. Now you're adding more evidence to it. And
32:47
Speaker 1: so this makes this there was a level of decomposition
32:52
Speaker 1: as well. We have to keep that in mind. When
32:54
Speaker 1: they finally did find her body, and of course this
32:57
Speaker 1: is October in Florida. Things happened from a decompositional standpoint
33:02
Speaker 1: much more rapidly there than it might other locales across
33:06
Speaker 1: our country because the heat. But there was evidence of
33:10
Speaker 1: scavenger activity from animals, this sort of thing. But we
33:17
Speaker 1: know that the trauma that she sustained was so extensive
33:26
Speaker 1: that in that one spot. The police would have a
33:32
Speaker 1: devil of time working the scene because it's you have
33:36
Speaker 1: this kind of layering of evidence that's going on in
33:39
Speaker 1: this environment. You're trying to decide, well, how in the
33:44
Speaker 1: world did she wind up here, what's the significance of
33:46
Speaker 1: this location, what's the surface like that the body is
33:49
Speaker 1: found lying upon, Who might have access to this location?
33:54
Speaker 1: And why is somebody riding around back and forth over
33:58
Speaker 1: the body with a car. Because you're we're going to
34:00
Speaker 1: have tire tracks, not just in the surrounding area, maybe
34:04
Speaker 1: pressing down the grass underlying dirt, Dave, you're gonna have
34:07
Speaker 1: evidence of tire tire impressions on the body.
34:11
Speaker 2: Now.
34:11
Speaker 1: I have seen this in motor vehicle accents in particular,
34:15
Speaker 1: where you'll see evidences of treadmarks on the body. So
34:19
Speaker 1: you've got all of that, and think about what we
34:21
Speaker 1: talked about earlier when he drug her into the car, Dave.
34:25
Speaker 1: When he drug her into the car, he immediately begins
34:28
Speaker 1: to assault her. He chokes her out, so you've got
34:34
Speaker 1: that bit of evidence, and then he violently reacts to
34:37
Speaker 1: her when he realizes that she's not deceased, so again
34:42
Speaker 1: he strikes again, until finally you know, he's laying her
34:46
Speaker 1: on the ground and rolling back and forth over her body.
34:49
Speaker 1: So when you get a body like this to the
34:52
Speaker 1: morgue that is so mangled, and also your fighting decomposition here,
34:58
Speaker 1: you're trying to find answers. What's fascinating is that how
35:04
Speaker 1: do you determine how do you determine the difference between
35:10
Speaker 1: what's going on in her neck because we believe this
35:13
Speaker 1: is a strangulation and maybe what trauma she had incurred
35:19
Speaker 1: as a result of the car rolling over her body.
35:22
Speaker 1: Was she deceased at the time the first time the
35:24
Speaker 1: car went over her, Because if she wasn't and the
35:29
Speaker 1: tire contacts the body, you're going to have hemorrhage there
35:31
Speaker 1: as well. So do you see how this can become
35:34
Speaker 1: layered and then and then it's kind of muddled even
35:39
Speaker 1: further by decompositional activity. So it's a very complex puzzle.
35:46
Speaker 1: But you know you mentioned something, Dave that I really
35:49
Speaker 1: want our friends to hear, is this whole case kind
35:54
Speaker 1: of makes this interesting turn where Wade Wilson actually contacts
36:00
Speaker 1: his father, Yeah, which is mind blowing to me.
36:03
Speaker 2: You know, he was not raised by his biological father.
36:08
Speaker 2: They had a minimal relationship. He was raised by step
36:11
Speaker 2: parents or by adoptive parents, and his dad has a
36:15
Speaker 2: background that landed him in prison a few times. And
36:18
Speaker 2: it was his dad during this conversation that Wade Wilson
36:22
Speaker 2: admits to doing this to. He doesn't come right out
36:26
Speaker 2: and say I killed him. He just said, well, they're
36:28
Speaker 2: not going to be going home, you know, they're not
36:30
Speaker 2: going to be coming back around. And during the course
36:34
Speaker 2: of this conversation with his dad, there were certain things
36:38
Speaker 2: that came up that the only reason we know what
36:44
Speaker 2: took place, it's because of the conversation that Wade Wilson
36:48
Speaker 2: did have with his father about what had been done
36:51
Speaker 2: to Diana Ruiz. Otherwise we would not know what had happened. Really,
36:57
Speaker 2: we would have an idea of some things. But he
37:02
Speaker 2: actually tells his dad that he threw her out of
37:06
Speaker 2: the car and ran her over so many times until
37:08
Speaker 2: she looked like spaghetti. Now, Joe, this is not something
37:15
Speaker 2: I would think of to describe a human being, but
37:20
Speaker 2: in this case, where you're looking at him running over
37:24
Speaker 2: the body of the small, little, you know, woman, mother
37:28
Speaker 2: of two, running her over so many times, you would
37:31
Speaker 2: see white skin, blood. Yeah, it would look like noodles
37:37
Speaker 2: and sauce. It would look like that if you did
37:40
Speaker 2: this to the person, you know, with a car running
37:42
Speaker 2: them over so many times, they become a mangled mess.
37:44
Speaker 2: That that's the best description he could come up with
37:46
Speaker 2: to his own father. She looked like spaghetti.
37:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't I don't necessarily, let's see, I
37:56
Speaker 1: don't necessarily. I'm not necessarily surprised by the fact that
38:03
Speaker 1: he is incapable of saying anything other than this, because
38:09
Speaker 1: I think that this guy's mind is in a spot
38:13
Speaker 1: where he can dehumanize somebody to the point and I
38:20
Speaker 1: think that there's he's dehumanized his self, you know, I
38:23
Speaker 1: think greatly. And that's not a far that's not a
38:26
Speaker 1: far reach. If you can do it to yourself, you
38:29
Speaker 1: can do it to other people. If you'll disfigure yourself,
38:33
Speaker 1: you'll you know, how much of a more of a
38:36
Speaker 1: leap is it for you to disfigure this poor innocent
38:39
Speaker 1: woman that was just minding her own as she walked
38:43
Speaker 1: down the road. Yeah, I know, And so.
38:46
Speaker 2: The way ten o'clock in the morning, Joe, she left
38:48
Speaker 2: the house. Her son talked about this. He was the
38:50
Speaker 2: last person to see her. She was walking to work
38:54
Speaker 2: ten o'clock in the morning when this happens to her.
38:58
Speaker 2: You know, in the conversation that Wade Wilson had with
39:02
Speaker 2: his father. His father testified. They called him as a
39:05
Speaker 2: witness at trial, and he said he was relating the
39:10
Speaker 2: conversation that he had with Wade Wilson, and he said
39:14
Speaker 2: that during the phone call, Wilson explained, he met a girl.
39:16
Speaker 2: There's talking about Christine Melton. He met a girl at
39:18
Speaker 2: a bar, went back to her house. They fell asleep.
39:21
Speaker 2: He wakes up and he said he got on top
39:23
Speaker 2: of her and choked her. He said, I choked that
39:27
Speaker 2: be yeap, just because he woke up before she did.
39:30
Speaker 2: I guess then this is what dad says. He stayed
39:33
Speaker 2: in her house for a little while. He rolled her
39:36
Speaker 2: up in carpeting and was going to put her in
39:38
Speaker 2: the trunk of her car, but he couldn't lift her.
39:41
Speaker 2: Felt like Rigor Mortis had said, it started to set in.
39:44
Speaker 2: So that's when he decides to steal her car, take
39:47
Speaker 2: off in her car, and that's where he comes into
39:49
Speaker 2: Diana Ruiz, who's walking down the road, and he says,
39:53
Speaker 2: according to the conversation with his dad, he asked her
39:55
Speaker 2: for directions. She gets near, he pulls her in and
40:00
Speaker 2: chokes her while he's driving. How difficult is it to
40:03
Speaker 2: choke somebody, Joe while you're driving?
40:05
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly, And you're taking this woman by surprise.
40:09
Speaker 1: And isn't that interesting that point in and of itself
40:13
Speaker 1: where you're going to reach over and do I want
40:17
Speaker 1: to use the word spontaneously here, Dave, I don't know.
40:20
Speaker 1: It kind of escapes it escapes me. Was it planned?
40:23
Speaker 1: Because can we go back to Christine just for a second, Yeah,
40:26
Speaker 1: because I was thinking about this. In order for riger
40:30
Speaker 1: to have set in in Christine's body, we're talking hours day.
40:34
Speaker 2: Okay, that's what I was going to ask. I made
40:36
Speaker 2: a note here because I don't know.
40:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have. It would have. It would have
40:41
Speaker 1: taken hours. Now, whether or not she was in full
40:45
Speaker 1: riger at that point in time, I have no idea.
40:48
Speaker 1: But this person apparently had an awareness that there was
40:55
Speaker 1: rigidity present, so it was appreciable. So he's saying that
40:59
Speaker 1: he could not manipulate her body to the point where
41:03
Speaker 1: he could get the body in the trunk. Okay, So
41:07
Speaker 1: with that said, he decides to steal the car. Well,
41:10
Speaker 1: he's in there ruminating over this as he's in this
41:14
Speaker 1: poor woman's space, the space that she's created that's supposed
41:18
Speaker 1: to be you know, her home safe, home at home safe,
41:25
Speaker 1: and he's I think about this, and I'm thinking, well,
41:32
Speaker 1: is he getting so angry over the fact that a
41:34
Speaker 1: natural biological process is taking place and it's inconveniencing him. Yeah,
41:39
Speaker 1: let me steal this car and go out and find
41:42
Speaker 1: somebody else that I can exact my anger upon, or
41:48
Speaker 1: exact my revenge upon, for the way the world has
41:51
Speaker 1: treated me. And I'm going to end this forty two
41:54
Speaker 1: year old mother's life with my bare hands. Oh and
41:58
Speaker 1: by the bye, I think, I think what I want
42:01
Speaker 1: to do is completely and totally eradicate her, rip her
42:07
Speaker 1: to shreds, drive back and forth over her body. By
42:12
Speaker 1: the way, with the vehicle he has stolen from a
42:17
Speaker 1: woman that he is just murdered, I can tell you
42:20
Speaker 1: this though, there has been a day of reckoning as
42:25
Speaker 1: far as Wade Wilson is concerned, because whether or not
42:29
Speaker 1: he gets the death penalty or not, he's never walking
42:34
Speaker 1: out of the Florida State Penitentiary. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan,
42:42
Speaker 1: and this is bodybags