Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / Episode 113: Bad Bosses, Star Wars Edition! The Galaxy's Most Dysfunctional Members of Middle and Upper Management

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Episode 113: Bad Bosses, Star Wars Edition! The Galaxy's Most Dysfunctional Members of Middle and Upper Management · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello there, it's most things. Kenobi, this is the podcast
• 0:05
  you're. Looking for
• 0:19
  Hi everyone, Welcome to another episode of Most Things Kenobi, a
• 0:22
  podcast about Obi Wan Kenobi and all things Star Wars.
• 0:26
  I'm your host, Lauren. And I'm your host Leanne and
• 0:31
  this episode was by popular demand.
• 0:33
  Yes, it's kind of like a Part 2 to our leadership episode that
• 0:40
  was a couple episodes back. This is I don't even know if
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  it's the opposite, but it's like a dovetails in it's bad bosses
• 0:49
  basically. Yeah.
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  Basically, yeah, We're going to talk about who we would
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  categorize in middle management and upper management and.
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  Perhaps have a third category of people who think they're
• 1:01
  management or upper management Bit Boss's boss title and
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  they're actually just not regular Joe Schmo is like us.
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  Just assholes. In fact, most of the people on
• 1:16
  this list are assholes. Yeah, this kind of comes with
• 1:20
  Star Wars territory. The bad guys can be just like a
• 1:26
  few spring immediately to mind that I would hate to work for.
• 1:33
  God, there's so many I know. Although there's this weird
• 1:38
  thing where I would like totally like to work for one or two of
• 1:41
  them, just to say that I did or to be in their presence.
• 1:46
  Yeah, it's one of those weird things of like.
• 1:52
  What? What is it?
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  OK, I'll just say it. I would love to work for Cranic
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  just to be around his Cape. Hates to be around someone like
• 2:02
  him though, because it's like he's he could just start yelling
• 2:06
  for no reason at any minute. He's with the Cape
• 2:09
  Unpredictable. I just have to say before we get
• 2:14
  started, Speaking of capes and clothes and everything, I'm
• 2:17
  going to give. A real quick rundown of Empire
• 2:21
  strips back the burlesque show I went to last weekend.
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  Oh, you don't want to do a whole episode on it?
• 2:28
  Oh no, it's no no cuz I don't want to spoil it for people who
• 2:31
  may go see it. I will say this you you already
• 2:35
  know some of the scenes that I told you about because the shit
• 2:38
  was hilarious, hilarious. It was funnier than it was
• 2:42
  seductive and I really appreciate that.
• 2:45
  Sure, there are some bare asses. Not a whole lot of nudity, but
• 2:48
  it was well done. It was for Star Wars fans, like
• 2:52
  inside jokes, all this stuff. And I'm just going to say, never
• 2:58
  in my entire life, on this planet, in this universe, did I
• 3:02
  expect to see Emperor Palpatine naked.
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  Oh no, No one wants that. No.
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  No one wants that. No, Everyone was hollering,
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  screaming. I'll say it was a naked suit.
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  It was like a suit that someone had on because it was like in
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  the fashion of an old, wrinkly, dead man.
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  Oh my God. Which made it hilarious.
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  But he came out to Wrecking Ball and rode the Death Star to
• 3:34
  Marley Cyrus. I just.
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  It was so fucking amazing. I just.
• 3:38
  I'm here to tell you. If you get a chance and it's in
• 3:41
  your city, the tickets are very inexpensive and worth every
• 3:45
  ounce of your time and effort to go.
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  It was great. That's amazing.
• 3:53
  Well, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself.
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  I I really, I was. I my boyfriend is not a Star
• 3:58
  Wars fan. He had no idea what was going on
• 4:00
  and he had an absolutely amazing time.
• 4:03
  He loved it, so that's good to know.
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  And then he asked me, was this in the movie?
• 4:07
  Was that in the movie? Are these from?
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  What movie? Which movie is this?
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  So I had to show him what the guards wore, what stormtroopers
• 4:13
  were, who this guy was, who that girl was.
• 4:15
  I had to show him everything. So it was a little less.
• 4:18
  And then and yeah, they don't actually dress like this in the
• 4:23
  movie, but there's not really stripping in the movie.
• 4:25
  No, but Slave Leia, yeah, but that was she did come out.
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  She did her own thing and she killed Jabba and.
• 4:33
  It was too Notorious BIG, so I fully approve.
• 4:37
  Yeah, it was amazing. And Jabba was the one singing.
• 4:40
  It was great. So Oh my God.
• 4:47
  OK, well, I think I missed my chance to go, but maybe next
• 4:51
  time. Maybe.
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  I know it's they're traveling around doing their things, so if
• 4:54
  you get a chance, do it, do it. OK, so I I brought all this up
• 5:02
  because Lando was present at the show and he kept referring to
• 5:05
  his Cape. He was the MC of the IC.
• 5:08
  Very nice. Yes.
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  And he kept talking about all of his glorious cloaks.
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  And I was very, very upset that I don't get to wear like a Cape
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  or a cloak in in public, but he did.
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  So I think it's time to start bringing some capes back into
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  style. Can we please, please, Yes, the
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  dressing is so boring nowadays. So terrible.
• 5:34
  Well, enough of that. Let's get into who middle
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  management is. Do you want to start with middle
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  management or upper management? Yeah, I don't know.
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  Like, what's funnier? Probably middle management
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  because my list I have is pretty pretty, I don't know, wet paper
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  towelley. There's a lot of there's a lot
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  of wet paper towels on this. Let's dive into it then, Joe.
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  Well, the definition of middle management, in case anyone needs
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  to know, is very simply managers in an organization at a level
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  just below that of senior administrators.
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  So they're semi executive positions, they can be promoted,
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  they enjoy a good salary, but they don't get to make all the
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  big decisions so. Let's keep that in mind as we
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  talk about all of these losers. Sorry, I'm gonna have a good
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  time with this. This is going to give middle
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  management hire and fire or do they have to defer to upper
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  management for that? Oh, I think they're part of the
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  hiring team, but I don't think they make the final decision.
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  At least in my line of work, our middle management is involved in
• 6:47
  the hiring process but does not make the final decision.
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  So I'm not sure how to answer that.
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  So they could make your life a living hell and absolutely but
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  yes, yeah. Cuz they're still higher than
• 6:59
  you, they got a higher pay grade and they know it, so OK.
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  Who are you thinking of? Who comes to mind for you for
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  middle management? Critic always comes to mind to
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  me for middle. Yeah, he's the first one I have
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  on my list. Yeah, because he he does a lot
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  of bluster and bluffing, but he he has to answer to Tarkin.
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  Yeah, always. And if you've listened to or
• 7:29
  read the the Rogue One novelization, they make it even
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  more apparent that he is just, like, not as powerful as he
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  thinks he is. It's pretty funny.
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  Yeah, that he's a pretty typical middle management because he
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  throws his weight around but it only goes so far and he's so
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  hopeful that like hey did what I I just.
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  Like, does that make me higher in ranking?
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  Like he keeps wanting to get like one-on-one FaceTime with
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  Palpaty and it is not going to happen?
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  No, it's just never going to happen.
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  And he's the only one who doesn't realize it.
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  That's sad. He loses.
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  Yeah, but he does have a fabulous penchant.
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  He is does. We both agree with each other.
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  Yes. Yep.
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  Yep. I I I really love Kronick.
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  I do. Do I think Kronick and Tarkin
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  together are just a recipe for delay because Tarkin hates him
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  so much. It's really, really fun.
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  And like Tarkin can just put him in his place over and over and
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  over. Every time Kronick thinks he's
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  He's finally got an advantage, Tarkins a step ahead of him.
• 8:49
  Well, my question, my question to you is, I have Tarkin in the
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  not sure list because he's higher than chronic, but he's
• 8:58
  lower than Palpatine, slightly lower than Vader, right?
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  Kind of. He and Vader kind of equals in a
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  in a sense. Because they're specialized in
• 9:13
  two different things. Vader is killing and chronic is.
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  Just more organizer killing? Well, Vader's object goal for
• 9:25
  his fiscal year is to kill. And then Tarkin's fiscal year
• 9:32
  goal is to also kill. But do it more like organized.
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  Yeah, I mean, Tarkin has, Tarkin has initiative in the killing
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  area, right? Like, he has plans.
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  So what is it? It's well, the Death Star was, I
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  guess it was Palpatine's idea. But really, Tarkin says to
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  Chronic that it was an idea that he came up with years ago.
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  So I don't know if it was Palpatine or Tarkin.
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  Then there's like all all of the in Rogue One, when Jin and
• 10:06
  Cassian are trying to find the Stardust file, they list all
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  these different things, and they're part of Tarkin's
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  initiative. It's like a thing.
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  And it's like all these plans he has for different ways of waging
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  war and manipulating public opinion and all of this stuff.
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  So he has kind of he's got autonomy, but he does still
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  answer to the the emperor. He sits at the head of the
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  boardroom table and chooses to not dip into the Donuts.
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  He's too good for the Donuts. Critic takes a donut.
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  He may take half of a doughnut. Credit demands all the
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  doughnuts. Credit demands all the
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  doughnuts, but it's only given a few pieces.
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  It's a crumbs. I love this.
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  He's allowed the last crumble of doughnut in the box and he gets
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  so mad. It's like Milton.
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  The ratio of people to cake is not no, there's not enough
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  slices of cake. This is office space for people
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  who don't know. But.
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  Krenick's office got moved to the the basement of the I love
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  that woman in in office space where he's like but there's not
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  enough pieces of cake and she's like Milton, just pass.
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  Yeah, right. Exactly.
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  That's how everyone just deals with Krenick.
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  They're like. Just pass.
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  Just move on. Do do your job and shut up.
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  Yes, but God does he Lord over everybody else.
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  Yeah, he's even in Bad Batch for a minute.
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  Yeah, that's true. I heard that.
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  Yep, without sans Cape, he has a.
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  Cape. That's bullshit.
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  You can't have a critic without a Cape.
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  Say that 10 times fat. I can't.
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  You know who else I have on middle management, Cyril.
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  Cyril Carne Oh my God. He's the he's the drippy like
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  ass kissy tail man uniform God. You know, just taking what he
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  can because hopefully it'll get him somewhere someday.
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  And he's like conniving. He is like critic in that that
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  sense. They both want more, but are
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  really not good enough to get it.
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  Yeah. And chronic is kind of more
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  aggressive and Cyril is more conniving, I think, yeah.
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  And they both have an undercurrent of hate that cannot
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  be outmatched. Yeah, and they don't listen to
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  their superiors. Yeah, they're told explicitly to
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  do something. They think they know better and
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  they go about it their own way and it bites them both in the
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  ass. That's why I put Cyril as #2.
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  He was the second person that came to mind after Chronic.
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  That is, yes, I completely agree with.
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  I would hate to work for him #1 Creeper vibes.
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  Yeah, totally. Right #2.
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  I'd be afraid his mother would show up somewhere and, like,
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  shake her hand. There is two ways to look at
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  this. Yes, I love that woman so much.
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  She's. Ruthless, She she.
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  Yeah, Yeah. I thought though, with Cyril, I
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  feel like he's the kind of person who he would be your boss
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  and he would make you do something that you knew you were
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  going to get in trouble for, and you would do what he said so you
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  wouldn't get in trouble, You'd get in trouble anyway.
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  Like he's that kind of boss and then he would throw you under
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  the bus at the same time. Yeah, Cyril lives by.
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  Don't ask for permission, Ask for forgiveness.
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  And boy, did that not work out. With him, that didn't work.
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  I mean, we'll see what happens in Season 2, but.
• 14:07
  Yeah, yeah. How to Win People and how's it
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  Go, How to Win Friends and Influence People.
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  Written by Cyril Carr. Yeah, yeah.
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  It's a cautionary tale. It is.
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  It really is who else is on your list.
• 14:27
  Some people may find this controversial, but I have Mace
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  win do. He's a motherfucking middle
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  management freak. Could we put Kyoti Bundy on
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  there? Yes.
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  If we put Mace, we put Kyoti on there and they're they're
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  they're just like Critic and Cyril.
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  One is totally opposite of the other.
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  But they're both. The reason I put Mace on there
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  is because he's far too angry and like, pushy and bossy and
• 15:01
  kind of He really lacks compassion.
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  He really does. He doesn't have an empathetic
• 15:08
  bone in his body, but I really feel like he thinks he can do a
• 15:11
  better job than Yoda. He just knows not to fuck with
• 15:14
  Yoda because Yoda is like, what, 900 years old or something?
• 15:17
  And he just knows better. Like seniority he is.
• 15:25
  I don't know. It really depends on the media,
• 15:28
  right? Because he's kind of portrayed
• 15:29
  differently, just like Qui Gone. It's like the movies are one
• 15:32
  thing, books are another, comics another, Clone Wars is another.
• 15:35
  You're kind of, like getting a slightly different take every
• 15:38
  time you see Mace Windu. He seems really unpleasant in
• 15:44
  the movies. And he's so like, kind of who
• 15:47
  I'm not. Yeah.
• 15:49
  He's not like compassionate to Anakin, who's a child.
• 15:52
  Yeah, You know, he's like treating the child like he's an
• 15:55
  adult and he's not. And then in like some books,
• 16:00
  he's really deferential to Yoda. Yeah, in Clone Wars he's kind of
• 16:05
  like in between that. So I would not.
• 16:09
  I would not want to work for Mace Window.
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  That that's my bottom line. I don't want to any part of my
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  management team. Maybe it's just my style,
• 16:19
  because he is not my style. You know, he seems like Type A a
• 16:23
  little bit like a little bit like wants control, which maybe
• 16:27
  is not right observation, but that's just kind of like the
• 16:30
  vibe I get off him. I had a boss once who is very
• 16:33
  Type A and it was so hard to please her.
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  It was the kind of thing where you you would do your best and
• 16:42
  it was exactly what she asked for and she would still rip it
• 16:45
  to pieces and want you to start over.
• 16:47
  And it was just like it really. It made me very good at what I
• 16:52
  do and made me impervious to criticism.
• 16:55
  Yeah, because it was constant. But when that, like when we
• 17:00
  parted ways, I was happy. The happiest I've ever been with
• 17:05
  work, he. Probably felt a huge relief
• 17:08
  since I felt like getting out of jail.
• 17:10
  Yeah, it was. It was nuts.
• 17:12
  So I get that same kind of vibe off of May's window.
• 17:17
  So definitely, he would definitely be texting you at
• 17:20
  like 3:00 AM, expecting you to get on your computer and work.
• 17:25
  Oh my God, you're right. I hate that.
• 17:32
  That hits close to home, actually, yeah.
• 17:36
  It's been done before in my line of work.
• 17:41
  You'll have your phone on Do Not Disturb, and they'll just follow
• 17:43
  many times as it takes to break through your Do Not Disturb.
• 17:48
  I heard this thing on Instagram, this lovely woman was like, do
• 17:53
  your job and go the fuck home. And then she's like, she starts
• 17:56
  singing do your job, do your job, do your job and go to fuck
• 18:01
  home. And she made it into a song.
• 18:03
  She did it on like by complete accident.
• 18:05
  If anyone knows what I'm talking about, you know it's a catchy
• 18:08
  Bob. And she's like, oh, it's a Bob.
• 18:10
  And now I think to myself, do your job, do your job and go to
• 18:14
  fuck home and leave it at work. So yeah, she's right.
• 18:20
  She's right. Well, anyway, I have a few more.
• 18:24
  I have a few more carry on. Should I just rattle them off?
• 18:28
  Sure. General Hucks.
• 18:34
  Oh my God. Oh, yeah.
• 18:37
  Yeah. No, thank you, dear God.
• 18:40
  Moth Gideon from Mandalorian. He really thinks himself upper
• 18:46
  management. But that's a good guy.
• 18:48
  It's Ron would just grind to to powder right because he's so
• 18:53
  much scarier and more powerful. Yeah.
• 18:56
  I also have one of our, you know, local favorites here on
• 19:03
  the show, Bib Fortuna. He's like a secretary almost.
• 19:14
  And that's insulting secretaries.
• 19:16
  And I appreciate secretaries, but like, he's really a personal
• 19:19
  assistant who's really bad at his job.
• 19:21
  Yeah, it's like, um, in Boba Fett, that guy with the greed,
• 19:24
  He was a Twilight and he he was all like nervous and jittery and
• 19:27
  was writing down stuff on his little tablet or iPad or
• 19:30
  whatever the hell he is, you know?
• 19:31
  He was just, like, real jittery. He's kind of in that realm, Bib
• 19:36
  Fortuna. Yeah, he is.
• 19:38
  You're so funny. It's so true.
• 19:41
  And and he when Jabba dies, he like takes over like he's the
• 19:46
  Lord. Master and doesn't work.
• 19:49
  No, doesn't. He's not going to take care of
• 19:51
  that in like 2 seconds. And I think it's funny that they
• 19:55
  they showed Bib Fortuna as being like very like he had gotten all
• 20:00
  fat like he just glut this, you know, like he was.
• 20:04
  Settling in and taking advantage of people getting fat while
• 20:08
  everyone else suffers that kind of thing.
• 20:10
  I will. That was that Bib Fortuna was
• 20:13
  present at the show that I saw. Oh.
• 20:17
  Oh God. He had clothes on the whole
• 20:18
  time, but I was like, Oh no, there he is, there he is.
• 20:24
  They had everyone. But yeah, out of all these
• 20:26
  extras, I think General Hux is like the epitome of middle
• 20:30
  management. He really is, yeah.
• 20:35
  Would you say Kylo Ren is also? He was in my undecided group,
• 20:40
  yeah. Yeah.
• 20:42
  Interesting because he he's kind of autonomous, but he's not
• 20:48
  really like he has Snoke controlling him at one point and
• 20:52
  then I can't remember what happens in Rise of.
• 20:57
  Well, it turns good in Rise of Skywalker, remember?
• 21:01
  Yeah, but not right away. He's just kind of a loose
• 21:03
  cannon, I guess for a while. But I feel like he's too
• 21:07
  confused. He's too confused to be in upper
• 21:10
  management. Upper management really, really
• 21:12
  knows what they are and they've thrive off of it.
• 21:18
  You're right, because Kylo is more emotional.
• 21:21
  He's kind of like driven by his anger and it he's like ball
• 21:24
  where he's kind of blinded to what's really going on.
• 21:27
  He's so focused on on just like what he wants that he is kind of
• 21:32
  not going to be like a Palpatine where he can get multiple plates
• 21:36
  spinning at once. You know he's not able to do
• 21:38
  that. Do you know that mall is on my
• 21:40
  middle management list? Here's a disaster.
• 21:46
  I was afraid to say it. Because it's mall.
• 21:51
  Everybody loves mall and he's such a badass like by himself.
• 21:54
  But he is middle management dude.
• 21:57
  You know what mall is? He's an independent contractor.
• 22:00
  He. Is an independent.
• 22:01
  Let's put him in the independent contract because I have
• 22:03
  grievous. Is an independent contractor.
• 22:08
  He's down in my unsure list. Yeah, like venturous is.
• 22:12
  Also independent contractors like.
• 22:15
  Also on my list, you and I are like space twins.
• 22:18
  You know that and we have something I don't know we got.
• 22:21
  Something I feel like, yeah, Ventris is so good.
• 22:25
  She's very sure of herself, but she's always kind of been like
• 22:28
  second, second, like like one level down from where she really
• 22:33
  should be. And probably by no fault of her
• 22:36
  own, she's just been discarded constantly, so she's kept there.
• 22:41
  Yeah, so she she is. She's struggling to find her
• 22:46
  way, so I would go independent at that point myself, Yeah.
• 22:49
  I mean, she, she steps out of Sith and Jedi and becomes a
• 22:53
  bounty hunter, starts her own business.
• 22:54
  She's, you know, it's exactly what I did.
• 22:57
  Yes, and and then you still get bossed around by people.
• 23:03
  There's always someone higher than you and someone lower than
• 23:06
  you at all times. Yeah, we never quite.
• 23:09
  That's what Ball did too, right? Like he he's not a Sith anymore,
• 23:13
  so he starts his own crime family.
• 23:15
  And then he was technically higher than Savage.
• 23:21
  Yeah, and that like. Took care of itself.
• 23:24
  He was just a that's he's a regular employee.
• 23:28
  Yeah, he's his office is downstairs with Chronic in the
• 23:35
  Sith basement. Yep, Sith basement.
• 23:42
  What would Hondo be? I don't know.
• 23:44
  I think he's upper management, don't you think?
• 23:47
  Yeah, his own little. He's like, he's like an upper
• 23:50
  management, but of some like, kind of shitty small little
• 23:54
  business. Oh, a nonprofit?
• 23:55
  I was. Thinking a nonprofit?
• 23:58
  No. I was thinking more like a
• 24:00
  business nobody wants or needs. But he's really sure everybody
• 24:04
  needs it. So he deals.
• 24:07
  CD's and cassette tapes and old Nintendo systems and cell
• 24:12
  phones. Yeah, yes.
• 24:13
  He swears that it's going to come back someday and he'll be
• 24:16
  on top of the market when that day comes.
• 24:19
  That's exactly right. We buy used cassette tapes right
• 24:25
  here on Florham. He's like a pawn shop guy, he.
• 24:29
  Is Oh my God. He stands outside and waves
• 24:32
  people and come on in. Go on in, I got a deal for you.
• 24:36
  This is great. Oh, I love it.
• 24:42
  Well, should we tackle upper management?
• 24:44
  Because yes, let's do it. Who's on your list?
• 24:46
  These are more obvious I think, but I'm going to start with one
• 24:52
  that isn't that I put on here and I put Java, yeah.
• 24:56
  He's the fat boss that just sits back and lets everybody do
• 25:01
  everything for him. And still tells them, you know
• 25:03
  what? You're fired.
• 25:04
  You didn't do that quite the way I wanted.
• 25:06
  You're fired, yeah. And he reaps all the reward.
• 25:10
  Yes, And he laughs at his own employees.
• 25:14
  Yes, Yeah, And he, like, leaves you scraps, you know?
• 25:17
  But without my scraps, what would you have?
• 25:19
  Kind of thing. It's like when you work for
• 25:21
  Java. You work there because you need
• 25:23
  a job so bad you can't quit. Yes, yes, you are stuck.
• 25:28
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:30
  Oh man, have I been there a few times.
• 25:32
  Being in the palace is still better than being out in the sun
• 25:35
  of Tatooine. The Suns of Tatooine.
• 25:38
  So you know what? At least it's air conditioned in
• 25:40
  the office giant giant palm Franz to fan you while you're if
• 25:45
  you're lucky, while you're walking by, you might get eaten
• 25:49
  by a Rancor, but you might be okay.
• 25:51
  Yeah, I'd be afraid to work for Java.
• 25:54
  Yeah, he's he's like a he's like a big CEO, like a fat cat.
• 26:00
  You know what I mean? I think the difference here,
• 26:03
  like what I feel with middle management is I would hate to
• 26:07
  work for someone like that because they're probably stupid
• 26:09
  and I could probably do their job better than them and I
• 26:11
  wouldn't like being told what to do by someone who didn't know
• 26:14
  what they were talking about. The upper management you're
• 26:16
  going to list are probably people I'm afraid to work for
• 26:20
  that I would actually feel scared to work for.
• 26:23
  Like Thron. Yeah, Tron scares the shit out
• 26:26
  of me. He.
• 26:29
  Scares the shit out of me. He's the right kind of calm
• 26:33
  where he's. I'd like to see you in my
• 26:36
  office. You know, I might never come
• 26:39
  back. I don't know.
• 26:42
  What did I do, you know? And then he remains calm the
• 26:46
  whole time. He's real.
• 26:48
  He's real. He's one step ahead of you.
• 26:51
  He's going to get you because he he knows all the parts of his
• 26:57
  puzzle and you only get to see one piece of it.
• 27:00
  So you know, someone like Piette, for example, would think
• 27:04
  maybe he's doing a good job and he's like managing his little
• 27:07
  sliver of the pie. But Thron knows whether or not
• 27:11
  what you're doing fits into his bigger plan, and that's what
• 27:14
  makes him so scary. You just don't know his whole
• 27:19
  plan. And when you've become
• 27:21
  expendable, you know. Yeah, he's the guy.
• 27:29
  Six. If something happens to you,
• 27:25
  he's already replaced you. Like within?
• 27:30
  Give him. 60 whole minutes he'll have you replaced.
• 27:33
  He'd have his lizard replace you and his those is Salamaris or
• 27:39
  whatever they're called, I'm sure how to pronounce it, but
• 27:41
  they are probably smart enough to do your job for you.
• 27:44
  Yeah, yeah. OK.
• 27:50
  Well, I have to have. Helps invader on here of course.
• 27:55
  Palpatine is the top of the top of the top of the top, yeah.
• 28:01
  And I would be scared to hell to work for him.
• 28:07
  Palpatine is Hitler and Henry the Eighth.
• 28:12
  Yeah, yeah, They are the kind of people who kill their inner
• 28:16
  circle. So even if you think you're
• 28:19
  doing a good job, like Vader is, like you said, a dog on a leash.
• 28:23
  But if you read the comics, you see Palpatine is always
• 28:26
  challenging him because that is the way of the Sith.
• 28:30
  Yeah. So no thank you.
• 28:33
  Yeah, no thanks. He definitely is the one who How
• 28:39
  do I want to say this? Everyone is expendable, and the
• 28:42
  minute you think you're safe, you're not.
• 28:45
  Yeah. Everybody is extendable and
• 28:48
  we've seen it. I mean it's.
• 28:49
  You'll go to any length. There's this story about, I
• 28:53
  think it's Rommel. There's a little bit of German
• 28:57
  history for you again, in World War Two, Rommel was one of the
• 29:01
  most prevalent, like prominent German soul officers in Hitler's
• 29:09
  army. He was like in charge of their I
• 29:13
  can't remember what the tanks like, what their section is
• 29:16
  called. I can't believe my brain is
• 29:18
  having a cramp. But either way, like by getting
• 29:21
  to the end of the war, Hitler was starting to kill off his
• 29:24
  inner circle, and so he threatened Rommel that he would
• 29:28
  kill his family unless Rommel killed himself.
• 29:32
  Yeah. And that's like that's how
• 29:35
  Palpatine is. That's a Palpatine move So like
• 29:38
  Rommel poisoned himself to save his family and that this.
• 29:42
  It's so like the Empire to me and that's why I'm really
• 29:45
  terrified of and or season 2. Yeah, right.
• 29:49
  Totally. I think we're going to see
• 29:50
  stuff. Not that specifically, but that
• 29:53
  kind of cruelty, you know? Yeah, and.
• 29:56
  And at the end of the day, he still was able to lead like an
• 29:59
  entire Galaxy of like, bad people.
• 30:02
  So he. Was effective.
• 30:03
  Whatever he did, he was effective at it.
• 30:05
  But he was not. He's not someone you want to
• 30:07
  work for. He's not someone you trust.
• 30:10
  He's not someone you respect. He's someone you fear, and
• 30:15
  you're never safe with somebody like him.
• 30:18
  It's kind of like what we talked about in the leadership episode
• 30:22
  of Palpatine is good at knowing what your strength is, and he
• 30:26
  uses that to his advantage. And then when he doesn't need
• 30:30
  you anymore, you're dead. Basically, yeah.
• 30:34
  But a good leader uses your strengths and never sees you as
• 30:38
  expendable because you are part of the team and you're respected
• 30:43
  and there's trust in you to do your part and all this stuff.
• 30:46
  Yeah, everything that Palpatine is, everything that Palpatine
• 30:51
  isn't Leia is, is what I'm trying to say.
• 30:53
  Like yes. She believes in people she
• 30:56
  believes in, the good spirit she believes in.
• 30:59
  You know all of the good qualities and that sort of
• 31:01
  thing. If she sees a fault in you, she
• 31:04
  doesn't like, get rid of you. She gives you more chances.
• 31:08
  I mean, look at Han. You know, the reluctant hero,
• 31:15
  Yeah? So what are your thoughts on
• 31:17
  Vader then? Well, Vader's a tough one
• 31:21
  because Vader's kind of in a position where.
• 31:26
  He too is expendable if he doesn't fall in line with
• 31:29
  Palpatine, but Vader is so exalted by everyone else because
• 31:36
  he's Palpatine's like lap dog or right hand man or however
• 31:40
  however you want to look at it. Everyone is scared of him too
• 31:44
  because they know he's the mouth of Palpatine.
• 31:47
  If Palpatine's not around, Vader is like the next choice, yeah.
• 31:52
  Of like who you speak to or who you have to like answer to,
• 31:55
  rather. So he's kind of like a 2.0,
• 32:02
  except he's also he's also middle management.
• 32:05
  He's part of a group of people doing terrible things, but he's
• 32:09
  not making the ultimate decision.
• 32:11
  Palpatine. He is answerable to Palpatine,
• 32:15
  especially for certain things that he does.
• 32:18
  But he also makes his own mind up because it's fucking Anakin
• 32:21
  in there, and he always did. He's impulsive and he'll do what
• 32:23
  he wants. Yeah.
• 32:25
  I feel like Chronic is a great example in Rogue One, where
• 32:27
  Chronic goes to see Vader. That's a really good example of
• 32:31
  all of their dynamics, because Chronic really wants to use
• 32:35
  Vader to get to Palpatine so he can explain like how valuable he
• 32:40
  is to Palpatine. But Vader is like literally
• 32:43
  shows he holds Chronic's life in his hands when he chokes.
• 32:47
  Yes, and is like don't choke on your aspirations like you're not
• 32:52
  fucking going anywhere and if I kill you, the Emperor will not
• 32:55
  mind. That's right.
• 32:56
  Correct. Correct.
• 32:58
  It will just find another scientist, you know.
• 33:02
  And on the flip side, I think of the Kenobi Show where Palpatine
• 33:05
  had a talk with Vader like you need to I understand what you're
• 33:09
  doing. You're hyper focused on
• 33:11
  something here, but you need to reroute your.
• 33:13
  Energy away from this Kenobi business, we got other things to
• 33:18
  do. So it's like Vader's doing what
• 33:20
  he wants, but it's under the patience and the allowance of
• 33:26
  Palpatine because those two go back a long ways.
• 33:30
  Yeah, that's really true. It's a great point.
• 33:32
  So he's a he's a tough one. He's a tough one.
• 33:34
  He's like, you know, Dwight. In the office, he's not the
• 33:46
  assistant. He thinks he's the assistant
• 33:48
  manager, but Michael Scott corrects him as the assistant to
• 33:52
  the regional manager. So he fancies himself the
• 33:56
  assistant manager, but he's actually assistant to the
• 33:59
  region. So Vader fancies himself the
• 34:02
  assistant Emperor. Yeah, but he's the assistant to
• 34:08
  the Emperor. So.
• 34:10
  Yeah, yeah, he's Dwight. I can't.
• 34:18
  Those are all I had in upper management.
• 34:19
  Do you have anyone else? Because we're leaving one very
• 34:23
  crucial character out of all these lists.
• 34:28
  Who? Who is it?
• 34:30
  Ponkrell Where the fuck do we put him?
• 34:36
  Because I know where I would put him down in the basement, Yeah.
• 34:40
  I think he's middle management. I think he's nothing really.
• 34:45
  He holds all the clones lives in his hands because the Jedi put
• 34:50
  him in that position. But ultimately no one will
• 34:54
  follow him at the end. No.
• 34:58
  So do you have other lists like the kind of like can't?
• 35:04
  Yeah, so I had Grievous in there and I also had Dooku.
• 35:07
  Where does Dooku fit in? I was going to ask what what we
• 35:11
  would call Dooku? I don't know.
• 35:14
  He's kind of, he's kind of like Tarkin, he is he.
• 35:19
  He has initiative, but really he doesn't like he is really a dog
• 35:24
  on a leash with with Palpatine. I think Dooku thinks he's
• 35:30
  something, but Palpatine knows he's really just a puppet.
• 35:35
  Yeah, every success that Dooku had in The Clone Wars.
• 35:39
  He definitely thought it would amount to something, and all it
• 35:42
  amounted to was being the ultimate tool to get Anakin to
• 35:48
  make another mistake. Which is wild when you think
• 35:52
  about it. It's very tragic.
• 35:55
  It's so bad because Duku really believed and he was really
• 36:02
  following what he believed was. Right.
• 36:06
  Yes, right, right. And and they show and tales of
• 36:10
  the Jedi. He's disillusioned and you know
• 36:12
  he has this very tragic, like losing Qui Gon was one of the
• 36:16
  kind of things that kind of pushed him even further away
• 36:18
  from the Jedi. And it's very tragic.
• 36:21
  It's it's like a a life wasted kind of.
• 36:25
  Totally. I feel bad.
• 36:26
  I do feel bad for Dooku, his character, because he could have
• 36:31
  been truly great if his focus had been on something other
• 36:37
  than. And if he'd just stayed on the
• 36:40
  Jedi course, like he had a great master, he had great
• 36:45
  aspirations. He he didn't go into the Clone
• 36:48
  War, it just blindly believing. So he he had convictions.
• 36:56
  And usually people with convictions and strong feelings
• 36:59
  about something, you can really kind of guide them back this
• 37:05
  way, you know what I'm saying? And and he just like what's her
• 37:09
  name almost got her got him in tales of the tales of the jail
• 37:13
  Yatal. She was right that he thought
• 37:16
  about it. He was one of those ones like
• 37:18
  Anakin, who could have continued to be great if he had just
• 37:22
  reined it in and refocused. Well, that's, yeah.
• 37:25
  Once you're in that position where you're kind of adrift, if
• 37:29
  the wrong or the right person gets their hands on you, yes, it
• 37:33
  can make you, it can save you or it can send you over the edge.
• 37:37
  And yeah, we should do a whole episode on Dooku someday.
• 37:40
  I never really think about him in much detail, but he's he's
• 37:45
  far more layered now than just like what he was portrayed as in
• 37:50
  the prequels. You know, like evil old man who
• 37:54
  is assisting PAL. But it's like there's more to
• 37:57
  him. Now we have more of a back
• 37:58
  story. Yeah, I agree with that.
• 38:07
  Our question for all of you this week is who do you see as middle
• 38:12
  management or upper management or independent contractor?
• 38:16
  Did we miss anybody? Do you agree or disagree with us
• 38:19
  on any of these choices? We would love to know.
• 38:22
  Please hit us up on our socials and give us your point of view
• 38:25
  and you will not be sent to the basement if you're wrong.
• 38:31
  Which there is no, there is no wrong answer.
• 38:33
  Just just to clarify, we're not right.
• 38:40
  Next week we have decided we're going to talk about Dooku.
• 38:44
  Yes, we have never done anything really with his character.
• 38:48
  So we've decided we're going to deep dive into him a little bit,
• 38:51
  talk about his history. I don't even know what we're
• 38:54
  going to find. Yes, but there's a lot more
• 38:57
  there than than meets the eye. We do know that exactly.
• 39:00
  So we're we're we will explore that next week.
• 39:08
  Thank you so much for joining us here on the Most Things Kenobi
• 39:10
  Podcast. We appreciate every single one
• 39:13
  of our patrons and are grateful for your support.
• 39:16
  If you'd like to support the podcast and become a patient as
• 39:18
  well, head over to The Most Things Kenobi Patreon.
• 39:22
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• 39:25
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• 39:27
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• 39:30
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• 39:33
  And if you need just one place to find all of these, head over
• 39:37
  to most Things kenobi.com. So until next time, my dear
• 39:41
  space Twin, may the Force be with you always.