Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Suspect Killer of American High Schooler, Natalee Holloway, Heads to US Soil for Trial

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Suspect Killer of American High Schooler, Natalee Holloway, Heads to US Soil for Trial · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease. I don't want to jinx it,
0:15
Speaker 1: but is it really happening?
0:18
Speaker 2: Is your Vanderslout set to make his way, handcuffed and
0:24
Speaker 2: in lug shackles, of course, from Peru to the US,
0:29
Speaker 2: specifically a federal court in Birmingham, Alabama. This after years
0:36
Speaker 2: have passed since he murdered American sweetheart Natalie Holloway.
0:43
Speaker 1: Is it really happening?
0:46
Speaker 2: What if anything could throw a wrench in the works?
0:51
Speaker 1: I mean, is he Grece? This is Crime Stories.
0:53
Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and
0:55
Speaker 2: series exem one eleven. How did it all start art?
1:00
Speaker 2: And how do we end up right here? Take a
1:04
Speaker 2: listen to hour cut twenty one.
1:06
Speaker 3: When I first got the call that Natalie was missing,
1:08
Speaker 3: I was returning from Oh Gosh. I said it was
1:12
Speaker 3: Memorial Day weekend. I was returning from my family's lake
1:16
Speaker 3: home and got the call that's the dreaded phone call
1:20
Speaker 3: that no parent ever expects to receive, and then traveling
1:26
Speaker 3: somewhere outside of Memphis, Cinne food between Hot Springs and
1:30
Speaker 3: coming into Birmingham, and the caller said that Natalie was
1:34
Speaker 3: missing and that no one had seen her and that
1:38
Speaker 3: she missed her flight.
1:39
Speaker 4: And.
1:41
Speaker 3: In that instant, I knew. I knew instantly this something
1:45
Speaker 3: was terribly wrong, because that was just so out of
1:48
Speaker 3: character for Natalie. She's just not going to oversleep, She's
1:51
Speaker 3: not going to be, you know, lost somewhere in another room.
1:56
Speaker 3: So I knew instantly that she was a being held
2:00
Speaker 3: against her will, or something even more tragic had happened
2:05
Speaker 3: to her.
2:05
Speaker 2: A mother's intuition turns out to be true. Yet again.
2:09
Speaker 2: You are hearing our friend Beth Holloway, Natalie's mother, speaking
2:15
Speaker 2: about the moment she learned Natalie was missing. We all
2:19
Speaker 2: believe at this point that Natalie was murdered the night
2:23
Speaker 2: she went missing, at the hands of Judge's son, Yorn
2:29
Speaker 2: vander Slut. So what does that have to do with today?
2:33
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our seventy six our friends at CBS.
2:36
Speaker 5: Eighteen year old Natalie Holloway disappeared while on a high
2:39
Speaker 5: school class trip to Aruba. Holloway was last seen leaving
2:43
Speaker 5: a bar with Yorn vander Slut and two other men.
2:46
Speaker 5: No charges were ever filed in Holloway's disappearance. Her body
2:51
Speaker 5: has never been recovered. Now, vander Slut could be extradited
2:55
Speaker 5: to the United States. Vanderslute is in for route serving
2:58
Speaker 5: a twenty eight year sentence for the twenty ten murder
3:01
Speaker 5: of Peruvian student Stephanie Flores. Van der Slut is accused
3:05
Speaker 5: of trying to extort a quarter of a million dollars
3:07
Speaker 5: from Holloway's family, allegedly promising he would lead them to
3:11
Speaker 5: her body. Prosecutors say vander Slute collected twenty five thousand
3:15
Speaker 5: dollars in cash and then lied about where she was buried.
3:19
Speaker 5: It's not clear when the extradition would take place. Vander
3:22
Speaker 5: Slut's attorney says he plans to fight it. In his statement,
3:26
Speaker 5: Natalie Holloway's mother thanks the President of Peru and US officials.
3:30
Speaker 1: Oh blah blah blah. He's going to fight it.
3:33
Speaker 2: This while yourn vander Slut is kicked back in a
3:36
Speaker 2: Peruvian jail where he can have all the alcohol, all
3:40
Speaker 2: the drugs, and all the sex he wants. He's even
3:42
Speaker 2: father a child behind bars in Peru. Of course, he
3:47
Speaker 2: doesn't want to leave. Why would he? Why would he
3:51
Speaker 2: want to come to the US and facing justice? Joining
3:54
Speaker 2: me an all star panel to make sense of what
3:56
Speaker 2: we know?
3:56
Speaker 1: Right now?
3:57
Speaker 2: When is the ETA estimate time of arrival of Judge's son,
4:03
Speaker 2: yourn Van der Slut. And remember, he didn't just murder
4:07
Speaker 2: Natalie Holloway and drag her mother through hell and back,
4:14
Speaker 2: even trying to extract a quarter of a million dollars
4:19
Speaker 2: from Beth to tell Beth what quote really happened.
4:23
Speaker 1: To Natalie and where Nalie's remains are.
4:27
Speaker 2: But he actually took twenty five thousand dollars from her.
4:32
Speaker 2: It's kind of a down payment on his big fat life.
4:35
Speaker 2: He also murdered another young woman, Stephanie Tusciana Flores in Peru.
4:41
Speaker 2: Now Peru got it right. They prosecuted him and put
4:44
Speaker 2: him behind bars. Aruba never did a thing other than
4:49
Speaker 2: try to thwart the search for Natalie. Again with me
4:53
Speaker 2: an all star panel to make sense of what we
4:55
Speaker 2: know right now. But first I want to go out
4:57
Speaker 2: to Emmy Award winning investigative journalist on the story from
5:04
Speaker 2: the very beginning, Art Harris, a longtime colleague and friend, Art,
5:11
Speaker 2: can you believe you and I pounding the pavement when
5:15
Speaker 2: Natalie goes missing, trying to find Natalie, trying to find
5:19
Speaker 2: the truth, and here we are, We're this close to
5:22
Speaker 2: getting your Vanderslot on American soil.
5:25
Speaker 6: I'm in shock, Nancy. I mean, he has done everything
5:28
Speaker 6: to dodge the bullet. And this is something that's between
5:33
Speaker 6: all the jurisdictions. I never thought would see the day,
5:37
Speaker 6: but apparently we have an extradition treaty with you with Peru,
5:43
Speaker 6: and therefore they're going to try to honor it if
5:46
Speaker 6: the Justice Department agrees this week to turn it to
5:50
Speaker 6: return him in thirty days, within a certain period of time.
5:56
Speaker 1: I mean the USDJ bringing him here.
5:59
Speaker 2: And you know, you think our Harris that they would
6:01
Speaker 2: without any hesitation. But when has a US government done
6:08
Speaker 2: what we thought they were going to do.
6:10
Speaker 1: When has that ever happened?
6:12
Speaker 6: There are people languishing in jail across the sea that
6:15
Speaker 6: deserves far better treatment than we're in Vandersloet, and you know,
6:21
Speaker 6: we still haven't got any of them back. So it's
6:23
Speaker 6: sort of a miracle that he even dancing his way
6:25
Speaker 6: towards justice.
6:26
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you the only reason he's made this far,
6:28
Speaker 2: arn't Harris, is because Natalie's mother is still on it. Guys,
6:32
Speaker 2: I want you to take a listen to our friends
6:35
Speaker 2: at NBC.
6:35
Speaker 7: Natalie Holloway's family hoping to finally get some justice for
6:39
Speaker 7: the eighteen year old who was on a high school
6:41
Speaker 7: graduation trip to Aruba when she vanished in two thousand
6:44
Speaker 7: and five.
6:45
Speaker 8: There is still no sign of American Natalie Holloway.
6:48
Speaker 1: In the case.
6:48
Speaker 7: It made headlines around the world. You're in Vanderslope, who
6:52
Speaker 7: the least they left a club with Natalie the knight
6:54
Speaker 7: she was last seen can now be extradited to the
6:59
Speaker 7: US to face federal charges he tried to extort a
7:02
Speaker 7: quarter million dollars from the teen's mother in twenty ten.
7:05
Speaker 1: You know, it's.
7:06
Speaker 2: Interesting, arn't Harris, who's been on the search for an
7:09
Speaker 2: Alley since she first went missing in Aruba?
7:13
Speaker 1: Why now? And I mean I'm not kicking a gift
7:16
Speaker 1: horse in the mouth.
7:17
Speaker 2: I'm curious why now The wheels a justice somehow turned
7:23
Speaker 2: slowly and finally clicked.
7:26
Speaker 6: And it baffles me. I think, you know, you know,
7:31
Speaker 6: her mother kept pushing, and the perusing government I think
7:35
Speaker 6: is a little more open to getting him out of it.
7:38
Speaker 6: Maybe just got tired of him getting making all the
7:41
Speaker 6: headlines and drawing all the heat to their situation. I mean,
7:44
Speaker 6: he's been a drug dealer in prison, living the highlights there,
7:48
Speaker 6: and who knows what kind of message that sends to
7:51
Speaker 6: people come to our country, We catch you, we bust
7:54
Speaker 6: you like they did him in prison, and you know
7:57
Speaker 6: you'll still get to live high on the hog.
7:59
Speaker 1: You know at me so much.
8:01
Speaker 2: Art Harris, when recently went back to Aruba with Beth
8:06
Speaker 2: to try to uncover more information, to see if we could,
8:11
Speaker 2: you know, shake the trees, see if anything fell, find
8:13
Speaker 2: something new, dig up something old. We didn't know what
8:17
Speaker 2: we were looking at. We just went looking. They treated
8:21
Speaker 2: us like pariah. They threatened to arrest us, They followed
8:27
Speaker 2: us all over the island, telled us like we were criminals.
8:30
Speaker 2: And that was just a small taste of what Natalie's mother,
8:34
Speaker 2: Beth endured when she was trying to find Natalie. To
8:37
Speaker 2: start with, you were there, Could you just describe for
8:41
Speaker 2: everybody the way Aruba treated Natalie's family and the Americans.
8:46
Speaker 1: They're trying to find.
8:47
Speaker 6: Natalie, and every turn they robust them. They would make
8:52
Speaker 6: her sit in their leaving room, a small water room
8:56
Speaker 6: in the police department. I don't think it had air
8:58
Speaker 6: conditioning for hours on end, whole days while they supposedly
9:03
Speaker 6: searched the files and went around and checking sources. They
9:06
Speaker 6: did nothing, and they totally turned their back on her
9:09
Speaker 6: and anyone interested in finding the truth because the truth
9:13
Speaker 6: led back to, we believe total corruption. The father who
9:18
Speaker 6: was a sitting local judge, he was the one who
9:21
Speaker 6: went to bat for a son. And you know, this
9:24
Speaker 6: was a kid who had money, he had connections, and
9:27
Speaker 6: who knows what else he had on other people. But
9:31
Speaker 6: they were treated like dirt like you were, Nancy, maybe
9:34
Speaker 6: even worse.
9:34
Speaker 2: But it was different for me or I didn't have
9:36
Speaker 2: a dog in the fightin skin in the game. Cheryl
9:39
Speaker 2: McCollum is with me right now, founded director of the
9:42
Speaker 2: Cold Case Research Institute and star of a new hit
9:46
Speaker 2: series which I'll calls his Own seven Podcasts. Cheryl, it
9:52
Speaker 2: didn't bother me at all to have a little, let's
9:57
Speaker 2: just say, altercation with the Rieman authorities. She Beth had
10:02
Speaker 2: a lot on the line at the time she was
10:04
Speaker 2: looking for her daughter. I didn't have that constraint when
10:08
Speaker 2: they bothered us.
10:10
Speaker 9: Correct And you know, I remember something Beth said at
10:12
Speaker 9: the time. She said, if they locked me up, good,
10:16
Speaker 9: I'll have their undivided attention for three days to talk
10:19
Speaker 9: to them and ask him questions. So she was undeterred
10:22
Speaker 9: as well, and she even told us at the time
10:26
Speaker 9: it was a very different trip to Aruba for her.
10:29
Speaker 9: For the first time going there, she felt empowered. So
10:33
Speaker 9: it was nice to see that transformation in her that
10:37
Speaker 9: she was no longer intimidated or afraid. She went there
10:40
Speaker 9: with the full gusto arrest me, don't arrest me, banned
10:43
Speaker 9: me from the holiday inn for life.
10:45
Speaker 10: It's not going to stop her now.
10:47
Speaker 2: We were not concerned about getting arrested. I can say
10:49
Speaker 2: at least that much.
11:04
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.
11:08
Speaker 2: Another thing we got to keep in mind and let
11:10
Speaker 2: me go out to special guest joining us IRV Brandt
11:13
Speaker 2: Senior Inspector US Marshall Service all over the world. He
11:18
Speaker 2: has worked for a Department of Justice in international affairs.
11:21
Speaker 2: He's the author of solo Shot Curse of the Bluestone
11:25
Speaker 2: on Amazon. He's also author of What's the name of
11:28
Speaker 2: your other Jack solo book?
11:31
Speaker 1: V Brant.
11:31
Speaker 10: It's a Top of the World also, right, that's right.
11:36
Speaker 2: So there's Top of the World and Curse of the
11:38
Speaker 2: Bluestone both solo shot or Thank you for being with us,
11:42
Speaker 2: and of course what a background you've got for writing
11:44
Speaker 2: international books.
11:46
Speaker 1: One thing I got to keep.
11:47
Speaker 2: In mind is we're not dealing with Aruba, who they
11:51
Speaker 2: are not worth assault that goes in their bread after
11:54
Speaker 2: the way they treated Beth and then threatening us, telling us,
12:00
Speaker 2: harassing us the whole time that we were there just
12:02
Speaker 2: trying to talk to witnesses and return to locations and
12:05
Speaker 2: look at it with a fresh eye.
12:07
Speaker 1: It was insane.
12:08
Speaker 2: But that said, Natalie was kidnapped and murdered on their
12:12
Speaker 2: watch and they never lifted a finger. In fact, they
12:17
Speaker 2: ate it and embedded your vandersloop getting away. They covered
12:22
Speaker 2: for him and his father, the judge covered for him,
12:25
Speaker 2: and they let it happen.
12:27
Speaker 1: But we're not dealing with them. Now.
12:29
Speaker 2: It's a whole another ballgame of Brant. It's Peru because
12:34
Speaker 2: then he immediately goes to Peru five years to the
12:36
Speaker 2: day murders Stephanie Flores. Now here's the thing I'm wondering.
12:42
Speaker 2: If everyone's saying why now, I'm wondering about the statute
12:45
Speaker 2: of limitations on fraud because in this case, he's not
12:50
Speaker 2: charged with murder, He's charged with fraud. As a matter
12:53
Speaker 2: of fact, before you get started, take a listen to
12:57
Speaker 2: our friends at NBC.
12:58
Speaker 7: Vendor Slope was never charged in Holloway's disappearance, but is
13:01
Speaker 7: currently serving a twenty eight year sentence after pleading guilty
13:05
Speaker 7: to killing Stephanie Flores in Peru on the five year
13:08
Speaker 7: anniversary of Holloway's disappearance. That country's new president now agreeing
13:13
Speaker 7: to the temporary extradition. Vanderslote is accused of offering to
13:17
Speaker 7: tell Natalie's family how she died and where she was
13:20
Speaker 7: buried in exchange for the money. Authorities say he was
13:24
Speaker 7: given an initial payment of twenty five thousand.
13:26
Speaker 8: He took her attorney to a site he said the
13:29
Speaker 8: body was located out, but the body wasn't there, and
13:32
Speaker 8: he subsequently acknowledged that In emails.
13:35
Speaker 7: An attorney for Vanderslote tells the Associated Press they will
13:38
Speaker 7: fight extradition.
13:39
Speaker 1: Okay, this is what we know.
13:41
Speaker 2: We know that your vander Slut's lawyer wants to fight extradition.
13:45
Speaker 2: It's my understanding her brandt that for federal fraud, the
13:49
Speaker 2: statute is ten years. That could be why suddenly this
13:55
Speaker 2: is coming to fruition now, that could be a reason.
13:58
Speaker 10: What do you think, well, Nancy, Yes, it's my understanding
14:04
Speaker 10: that once the charges have been indicted, the clock doesn't
14:09
Speaker 10: begin because he's in custody in Peru. Yep, you're right,
14:13
Speaker 10: And it's very much like when you have someone in
14:18
Speaker 10: state custody and then the FEDS charge that person, indict
14:23
Speaker 10: that person. Then you bring that person into court on
14:26
Speaker 10: rit of habeas corpus and you're just borrowing them from
14:31
Speaker 10: state custody, and as soon as the trial's over, you're
14:34
Speaker 10: going to send them back to state custody. This is
14:37
Speaker 10: the same thing, except it's with countries instead of jurisdictions.
14:42
Speaker 2: So were you saying the US statute of limitations did
14:45
Speaker 2: not start running when he was indicted on wirefraud and
14:49
Speaker 2: extortion on Natalie's mom correct?
14:51
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes perfect sense. So that leads me back
14:55
Speaker 1: around to the question why now.
14:58
Speaker 2: Now there's a lot of theory he's out there, but
15:02
Speaker 2: I want to hear what they're telling us from wb
15:05
Speaker 2: RC Fox six.
15:07
Speaker 11: The first step will be an extradition hearing in Peru,
15:10
Speaker 11: where your hand Vendor Schlute could try to fight this
15:12
Speaker 11: even so town expects him to be back on US
15:15
Speaker 11: soil within the month. Then Vendor Schlute will be brought
15:19
Speaker 11: to the federal courthouse here in Birmingham where he will
15:21
Speaker 11: be arraigned, assigned an attorney, and then held in custody
15:25
Speaker 11: until his trial. That could be anywhere between two and
15:28
Speaker 11: five months.
15:29
Speaker 1: So, erv Brandt, how is it going to go down.
15:31
Speaker 10: What's going to happen is since it's been improved, extradition
15:35
Speaker 10: has been improved, that the proving government is willing to
15:39
Speaker 10: turn over Vandislut for the US to prosecute him then
15:44
Speaker 10: return him back to Peru.
15:45
Speaker 2: Okay, Wait, so you're saying the extradition is a temporary
15:48
Speaker 2: extradition in that Peru is going to allow the US
15:53
Speaker 2: to pay for him to be extradited, brought to US
15:56
Speaker 2: soil to be tried on wire fraud and extortion of
16:02
Speaker 2: Natalie's mother, extortion, and then he will either do time
16:06
Speaker 2: here or he will be sent back to Peru, and
16:09
Speaker 2: that's between the two countries.
16:10
Speaker 1: I predict he'll stay in the US.
16:12
Speaker 10: No, Nancy, he won't stay in the US. He's going
16:15
Speaker 10: to be returned after he is after his trial.
16:21
Speaker 1: I mean, unless anything happens to him in jail.
16:23
Speaker 10: Well, that's that's absolutely correl in.
16:26
Speaker 1: The US and the federal penitentiary in.
16:29
Speaker 10: The US, which could happen.
16:32
Speaker 2: Hold on Earth, a power greater than yours is intervened.
16:35
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Cheryl McCollum. I mean, he's just just keep
16:39
Speaker 2: trying to break in until your letter in, so he
16:41
Speaker 2: just might as well letter in.
16:42
Speaker 1: Go ahead.
16:43
Speaker 9: Why do think it's important because he would understand we're
16:46
Speaker 9: not going to get an itinerary. This thing is what
16:49
Speaker 9: we call a bush ride.
16:50
Speaker 12: He ain't even going to know when he's leaving. He's
16:53
Speaker 12: all of a sudden he's going to be taken out
16:55
Speaker 12: of his sales. The next thing he knows, he's going
16:57
Speaker 12: to be on airplane, next thing he knows, who's going
16:59
Speaker 12: to be in a jail.
17:00
Speaker 9: Sale in Birmingham is going to be fast, and it's going.
17:03
Speaker 2: To be.
17:06
Speaker 10: Yeah, please can I break back in? Okay? I've conducted
17:11
Speaker 10: in supervised thousands of international extraditions and I have also
17:17
Speaker 10: done it from Peru. They're going to issue a surrender
17:20
Speaker 10: warrant to the Office of International Affairs. Once International Affairs
17:27
Speaker 10: receives that surrender warrant, typically they're going to do it
17:31
Speaker 10: within thirty days.
17:32
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on right there? Who issues who a surrender warrant?
17:37
Speaker 10: The Ministry of Justice in Peru as agreed to the extradition, okay,
17:45
Speaker 10: And once a surrender warrant for Vandslut is issued and
17:51
Speaker 10: it's received by the DOJ Office of International Affairs, either
17:55
Speaker 10: the United States Marshall Service or the FBI will make
17:59
Speaker 10: arrangements to bring vand a sloop back to the United States. Now,
18:03
Speaker 10: they're not going to announce it and they're not going
18:05
Speaker 10: to give any details for security reasons, but it's been
18:09
Speaker 10: my experience that they're can use. The FBI would either
18:13
Speaker 10: use one of their jets or the US Marshal Service.
18:16
Speaker 13: With charter a jet.
18:17
Speaker 1: You mean a civilian jet, that's correct.
18:19
Speaker 10: The US Marshall Service with charter a jet. The FBI
18:23
Speaker 10: has jets. I don't know they have jets with that
18:27
Speaker 10: kind of range from Peru to Birmingham. But since it's
18:31
Speaker 10: a formal extradition, it's not an issue. You can transit,
18:35
Speaker 10: you could refuel in other countries also US cities. Because
18:39
Speaker 10: the venue has been established, you don't have to worry
18:42
Speaker 10: about landing like let's say Miami and having to do
18:45
Speaker 10: a rule forty hearing in Miami.
18:48
Speaker 1: What's a real forty hearing. I'm a stay prosecutor.
18:50
Speaker 2: I'm a gunslinger, I don't know all of your federal
18:53
Speaker 2: numbers and rules.
18:54
Speaker 10: It's an identity hearing that defendant's entitled to to show
19:01
Speaker 10: the government to prove that he is the person, not
19:05
Speaker 10: just the name, but the person himself. Be an extra didem.
19:10
Speaker 10: But this wouldn't be the case since it's a formal
19:13
Speaker 10: extradition and they have a surrender warrant.
19:16
Speaker 1: Got it?
19:17
Speaker 2: So let me recap this Peruvian Ministry of Justice agrees
19:21
Speaker 2: to the extradition, they provide a surrender warrant to the
19:26
Speaker 2: US Department of Justice. Then once that has happened, the
19:31
Speaker 2: FBI will either send their jet or the US Marshals
19:34
Speaker 2: will use a commandeer a civilian jet go get him.
19:38
Speaker 2: And Peru is basically saying, hey, he's yours, COEOD cash
19:43
Speaker 2: on delivery, you can transport, and we're not interested. So
19:47
Speaker 2: then we go get him. We bring him home, maybe
19:50
Speaker 2: stop for refueling, get him to the Federal court in Birmingham,
19:57
Speaker 2: and then he goes and cools his heel in a
20:01
Speaker 2: US holding facility until he goes to trial.
20:05
Speaker 1: Is that right?
20:06
Speaker 10: That's correct? Then once the trial is concluded, the United
20:10
Speaker 10: States Marshal Service would return them to Peru to.
20:16
Speaker 1: Who's jumping in in.
20:17
Speaker 13: A local jail because the FBI and the government they
20:20
Speaker 13: don't have jails. They have proof.
20:21
Speaker 1: He's not going to be in a state jail.
20:23
Speaker 10: No, he would be in. He would be in. He
20:26
Speaker 10: would be in the United States Marshall Service custody.
20:29
Speaker 13: Yeah, and the traffic right.
20:32
Speaker 10: Well, they contract with either private facilities or local jails.
20:38
Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha, guys, we were talking about the return of
20:41
Speaker 2: your vander salute to U s soil. What if anything
20:48
Speaker 2: can be proven? Now, I don't I know if you've
20:52
Speaker 2: heard this or not, but believe it or not, somehow
20:57
Speaker 2: woven in to this cobbled proceeding is a fake stab wound.
21:05
Speaker 1: Yes, take a listener.
21:07
Speaker 8: Friends at AP, His lawyer claims prisoners are purposely targeting
21:10
Speaker 8: him be inmate to realize that if anything were to
21:13
Speaker 8: happen to you're in vander Slote, for example, if you're
21:15
Speaker 8: in Vanderslote were.
21:16
Speaker 10: To die, as a consequence, the prison would close.
21:19
Speaker 1: And this is what they are trying to do, close
21:22
Speaker 1: the prison. And to do this they're using your in
21:24
Speaker 1: vander Slot as a guinea pig.
21:25
Speaker 8: Prison officials deny the claims, saying vander Slute has superficial
21:29
Speaker 8: wounds on his abdomen that were probably self inflicted.
21:32
Speaker 2: So your vander Slut has self inflicted wounds for what reason?
21:39
Speaker 1: Uh? What do you know about that? Cheryl McCollum.
21:41
Speaker 9: You know it was probably a ploy to get to
21:43
Speaker 9: another prison himself. We know that he was running cocaine
21:47
Speaker 9: out of the prison. Maybe he had a better business
21:49
Speaker 9: opportunity somewhere else. Literally it was self serving that I
21:53
Speaker 9: can guarantee.
21:54
Speaker 2: Okay too or Harris, what if anything do you know
21:58
Speaker 2: about his self inflict?
22:00
Speaker 1: Did stab wound and what.
22:03
Speaker 2: Antics like that could stop this extradition.
22:08
Speaker 6: Well, there's always the medical facility that he might get
22:11
Speaker 6: sent to and who knows what he'd access to there,
22:14
Speaker 6: But that would also could also throw a wrench in
22:18
Speaker 6: the extradition timing. And you know, there's there are a
22:22
Speaker 6: lot of a lot of tools to self inflict yourself
22:25
Speaker 6: with in prison, but usually if something is you know,
22:29
Speaker 6: if someone is stabbed or has those kind of wounds,
22:31
Speaker 6: it's the real thing and it's over because prisoners know
22:35
Speaker 6: how to go for the jugular, so to speak, and
22:38
Speaker 6: he would not be here, So you know, I don't
22:41
Speaker 6: put much stock in being an attack from someone else.
22:45
Speaker 2: I remember distinctly when it happened, the bloodied polo shirt. Yes,
22:51
Speaker 2: polo shirt Jorn Vanderslleet was wearing behind bars when he
22:55
Speaker 2: was stabbed. Stabbed by fellow inmates, he said, And according
23:01
Speaker 2: to his then wife, he was stabbed multiple times by
23:05
Speaker 2: other inmates. As it turned out, it was one stab
23:08
Speaker 2: wound that was self inflicted. Karen Start joining me high
23:12
Speaker 2: profile psychologists joining us out of Manhattan.
23:15
Speaker 1: You can find her at Karenstart dot com. Karen with
23:17
Speaker 1: a C. What about that?
23:20
Speaker 2: This is the level to which he will sink to
23:23
Speaker 2: get what he wants. He stabbed himself in the stomach
23:27
Speaker 2: to get some sort of preferred treatment or even transfer
23:31
Speaker 2: in the Provian jail system.
23:34
Speaker 14: So, Nancy, that's not a surprise that Ohl. If you
23:37
Speaker 14: look at the things that this guy is capable of doing.
23:41
Speaker 14: He really like taking a grieving mother and not caring
23:47
Speaker 14: about the fact that her daughter is dead and she
23:49
Speaker 14: just wants to know where she's located. Heartless, he has
23:54
Speaker 14: absolutely no conscience. She will do whatever it takes to
23:58
Speaker 14: try and get attention, synthathy things going his way. So
24:03
Speaker 14: he's capable of anything that I'm not surprised about at all.
24:08
Speaker 2: Well, another thing to you, Art Harris, Emmy Award winning
24:12
Speaker 2: investigative journalist at Ardharris dot com. The moment he was
24:16
Speaker 2: stabbed behind bars, his wife immediately took to the airwaves
24:21
Speaker 2: about him being stabbed, hopefully to get preferential treatment.
24:25
Speaker 1: So that's what that was all about. And I don't.
24:28
Speaker 2: Put it beyond him to try another stunt like that
24:32
Speaker 2: to avoid extradition.
24:33
Speaker 1: To the US.
24:34
Speaker 6: Anything can happen with him. We know he's as sociopath,
24:37
Speaker 6: a psychopath killer who has no problem meaning a girl
24:42
Speaker 6: at a casino and then going back to the room
24:46
Speaker 6: and standing her when he finds out she's been peaking
24:48
Speaker 6: at his computer. So this is someone who is just
24:53
Speaker 6: beyond what profilers might construct if they were to create
24:58
Speaker 6: a fictional You know you are in Vandersloot, you know
25:03
Speaker 6: he surpasses all the evil that you can muster.
25:08
Speaker 2: Well, at first it was claimed to be multiple stab
25:10
Speaker 2: wounds three inches deep each buy Inmates on your Vandersloot.
25:16
Speaker 2: Then it turned into two stab wounds two inches deep,
25:21
Speaker 2: and then it turned into oh and the wife managed
25:23
Speaker 2: to go behind bars and quote smuggle out his bloody
25:28
Speaker 2: shirt to show it to the press. Then it turns
25:31
Speaker 2: out it was all self inflicted. So I don't know
25:36
Speaker 2: what they're going to pull next. I do know this
25:39
Speaker 2: back to earth Brandt, Senior Inspector US Marshall Service, that
25:43
Speaker 2: there is talk of his lawyer filing a habeas corpus
25:48
Speaker 2: motion to throw a wrench in the works.
25:52
Speaker 1: What do you know about that and how would that work?
25:54
Speaker 10: Nancy? That's always a possibility when it comes to formal extraditions.
25:59
Speaker 10: The host country, the country with the defendant currently has
26:07
Speaker 10: an appeal system that the lawyers can go through, but
26:14
Speaker 10: the president of Peru has already signed off, so I
26:17
Speaker 10: don't know what kind of appeals he has left. I'm
26:21
Speaker 10: sure he'll file an appeal, but whether that'll stop and
26:25
Speaker 10: being turned over to US authorities, that remains to be seen.
26:30
Speaker 10: I find it highly unlikely that if it is delayed,
26:35
Speaker 10: it won't be delayed long.
26:36
Speaker 2: So what is he looking at in the US and
26:39
Speaker 2: how are we going to prove it? Take a listen
26:42
Speaker 2: to our friends at Fox six.
26:44
Speaker 11: As soon as he's sentenced, Vanderschlut will be flown back
26:48
Speaker 11: to Peru to finish the murder sentence he is currently serving,
26:52
Speaker 11: which ends in twenty forty. The most he could face
26:55
Speaker 11: in the US is fifty years on these charges.
27:00
Speaker 4: Any sentence that he gets is going to be a
27:03
Speaker 4: very close to a life sentence for your vandersup and look,
27:07
Speaker 4: he deserves every inch of American justice, every ounce of
27:11
Speaker 4: American justice that we can give him. And when he
27:15
Speaker 4: finally released from the previu in prison, and he does
27:18
Speaker 4: all of his time in the Bureau of Prisons for
27:20
Speaker 4: the United States, he still has hell to look forward to.
27:23
Speaker 1: He certainly does.
27:25
Speaker 2: That was Jay Town speaking right there, joining me right now,
27:28
Speaker 2: Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath
27:32
Speaker 2: My Feet on Amazon, and star of a new hit series,
27:36
Speaker 2: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. So, Scott, thank you
27:40
Speaker 2: for being with us. Joe Scott, I think that having
27:43
Speaker 2: him in the US and the long period of time
27:47
Speaker 2: it will take to prepare his trial could only benefit
27:51
Speaker 2: the US and Natalie's mother, Beth. How are we going
27:55
Speaker 2: to prove the charges against him? The charges on us
27:59
Speaker 2: soil still not a murder charge. And do you ever
28:04
Speaker 2: think we're going to have enough evidence to determine where
28:08
Speaker 2: is Natalie and what happened to her?
28:10
Speaker 15: Very difficult to do, Nancy. You know, I think the
28:13
Speaker 15: closest I come to this thinking about what happened to Natalie,
28:16
Speaker 15: and you know where her remains wound up. This is
28:20
Speaker 15: a seventy square mile island. I know you've been there,
28:23
Speaker 15: Cheryl's been there. This is as horrible as this is
28:29
Speaker 15: to say, this is a one of the most diverse
28:33
Speaker 15: populations of apex predators in the oceans. You've got more
28:38
Speaker 15: shark species down there than any other location. There's an
28:41
Speaker 15: indication she may have been taken out on a boat
28:43
Speaker 15: her remains and they were disposed of out there. To
28:46
Speaker 15: this point, there has been no physical evidence. I think
28:51
Speaker 15: that at one point in time, the FBI found some
28:53
Speaker 15: hair that turned out to be a big fat zero.
28:56
Speaker 15: And of course there was this stuff with the bone
28:59
Speaker 15: frygments that the forensic lab and Netherlands examined. There was
29:05
Speaker 15: a jaw along with teeth, and even based upon what
29:10
Speaker 15: they found with the bone fragments, they couldn't determine if
29:13
Speaker 15: his male is female. And this is the point. With
29:16
Speaker 15: that physical evidence, they could not tie back biologically to Natalie.
29:22
Speaker 15: And you know, and I can only imagine you talk
29:26
Speaker 15: about you know, the shakedown artist, this guy, this animal.
29:30
Speaker 15: You know, it required on the part of Beth to
29:34
Speaker 15: her to surrender a piece of herself. You know, she's
29:36
Speaker 15: holding on to hope that this child is still alive.
29:40
Speaker 15: She has to give up a DNA sample, and of
29:42
Speaker 15: course it was it was a goose chase and then
29:46
Speaker 15: the shakedown. You know, it comes to that point. I
29:48
Speaker 15: think the one point of leverage in this is that
29:52
Speaker 15: he will be in the United States, and we know that.
29:55
Speaker 15: You know, as Art had mentioned, this guy is just
29:58
Speaker 15: rife with all kinds of psychological issues. If they can
30:02
Speaker 15: leverage him in some way while he is here, to
30:06
Speaker 15: come up with some kind of indication as to where
30:09
Speaker 15: he deposited her remains. I have no doubt that he
30:12
Speaker 15: brought about her death. It's just the reality of trying
30:15
Speaker 15: to determine where on that little plot of land down
30:18
Speaker 15: there he disposed of her.
30:19
Speaker 2: We keep talking about a rube or at least I do,
30:23
Speaker 2: being complicit and Natalie's death and then not helping her
30:27
Speaker 2: family at all. They knew what was happening with Yourn
30:31
Speaker 2: van der Sloot. Natalie Holloway was by far not his
30:35
Speaker 2: first victim.
30:36
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut sixty.
30:38
Speaker 2: This is Bob Plumber talking to me, a chaperone on
30:45
Speaker 2: the trip that ill fated senior trip Natalie went but
30:50
Speaker 2: never came back.
30:51
Speaker 1: Listen Jorn.
30:52
Speaker 16: He was in the casino every night, in the resort
30:55
Speaker 16: as well, so he was already in contact our seeing
30:59
Speaker 16: and around our students, you know, pretty much every night
31:04
Speaker 16: from the first night that we got there. So I'm
31:07
Speaker 16: pretty sure that's where he first made contact with any
31:12
Speaker 16: of our students before they even went to Carlos and Charlie's,
31:15
Speaker 16: and then probably heard that that's where they were going
31:18
Speaker 16: each night, and somehow ended up there with them each night.
31:34
Speaker 2: Time Stories with Nancy Grace del Carson joining me, high
31:39
Speaker 2: profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, Florida, and former fed with
31:43
Speaker 2: the FBI, author of Arrest Proof Yourself and you can
31:46
Speaker 2: find them at del Carson Law dot com. Dell, everybody
31:51
Speaker 2: knew your vanderslut would go to the casinos and the bars,
31:56
Speaker 2: slip the young female tourists ruthies, and take them way
32:00
Speaker 2: to rate them. Everybody knew that it was It's not
32:03
Speaker 2: even a secret. They didn't try to keep it a secret,
32:06
Speaker 2: yet they did nothing.
32:07
Speaker 13: Well, it doesn't surprise me because those islands, and I
32:11
Speaker 13: worked in that situation for a number of years. Islanders
32:15
Speaker 13: are very insular and statesiders when they come are looked
32:20
Speaker 13: down upon. And it doesn't take you long living on
32:23
Speaker 13: an island to know where you can throw trash in
32:26
Speaker 13: the water and it goes away. And certainly at the
32:29
Speaker 13: north end of the island where the lighthouse is is
32:33
Speaker 13: a known area. The water is twenty six fathoms deep
32:37
Speaker 13: just right off shore, and everybody on an island over
32:40
Speaker 13: the centuries would know precisely where you want to throw
32:44
Speaker 13: a dead hog or a dead cow to get it
32:48
Speaker 13: off the island. And so it's not surprising to me
32:51
Speaker 13: at all that there's no body to be recovered. And
32:54
Speaker 13: in the Virgin Islands we have a number of unsolved
32:58
Speaker 13: state side cases. Individuals have flown down there, they've gotten
33:03
Speaker 13: involved with the local groups and disappeared, never to be
33:07
Speaker 13: found again. It's an island, and you don't need to
33:11
Speaker 13: bury something in the sand where it's going to come back.
33:16
Speaker 13: You just know where to place it. And it's a
33:19
Speaker 13: horrible situation where predators who live on these islands they're
33:23
Speaker 13: not going to talk to other people. Islanders again, are
33:27
Speaker 13: very insore, they don't care for statesiders, and they know
33:32
Speaker 13: that they're going to live on that island for the
33:34
Speaker 13: rest of their lives, and they're certainly not going to
33:37
Speaker 13: explain their behavior or the behavior of others who lived
33:41
Speaker 13: with them on the islands to the general public and
33:43
Speaker 13: not to the police.
33:45
Speaker 1: Well, you're right about all that.
33:46
Speaker 2: It's stunning to me, aren't Harris, That they the authorities
33:51
Speaker 2: knew Gorn van der Slut had this mo modus opera
33:55
Speaker 2: LII method of operation and they did nothing. So this
33:58
Speaker 2: was just like another day at the office for your
34:01
Speaker 2: vander Slout.
34:02
Speaker 6: Well, you got to remember, Nancy, they had the judge,
34:04
Speaker 6: his dad was a judge, and who was looking over
34:09
Speaker 6: their shoulder, who they allowed to look over their shoulder,
34:12
Speaker 6: and knew what the next move by police were probably
34:14
Speaker 6: in every second, so he could set up an easy escape.
34:18
Speaker 13: Plus, when you go back to us, himself was arrested
34:21
Speaker 13: in connection with all of this by a local law
34:23
Speaker 13: enforcement because they knew he was connected with the son.
34:27
Speaker 2: Well, guys, wait a minute, it's more than just the
34:29
Speaker 2: dad watching over and keeping your in vander Slute out
34:34
Speaker 2: of trouble. It's more than that the father, Paulus Vanderslout.
34:39
Speaker 2: The judge was at the casino the night Natalie goes missing.
34:45
Speaker 1: Take a listen to hour cut sixty three.
34:48
Speaker 17: He was seated Natalie and then you're on is only
34:51
Speaker 17: a far the right side, but you can even see
34:53
Speaker 17: Natalie's slant out of her body positions. Spoke volumes to
34:57
Speaker 17: me because she was leaning towards her friend.
35:00
Speaker 1: And when you saw her, what went through your mind?
35:03
Speaker 17: So while I'm at the Holiday Inn talking to the
35:06
Speaker 17: night manager and then now arranging for me to view
35:10
Speaker 17: the security footage because I was trying to find out
35:12
Speaker 17: I wanted to get a visual like of who this
35:14
Speaker 17: person that Natalie was last seen with. I needed to
35:16
Speaker 17: sing because some of Natalie's friends were saying that his
35:19
Speaker 17: name was like they had part of his name and
35:22
Speaker 17: I can't remember what part they had. Then the night
35:25
Speaker 17: manager was able to confirm his entire name because she said.
35:27
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we know you're on vander Sloop.
35:30
Speaker 17: He praised That's what she described him as praise.
35:32
Speaker 1: Upon American females is what she said. Everybody knew. Everybody knew,
35:39
Speaker 1: so it was a common mo.
35:42
Speaker 2: I recently commented that your vander slut had sex assaulted
35:48
Speaker 2: Natalie Holloway, and I was met with a firestorm of
35:51
Speaker 2: complaints claiming and I understand this since her body was
35:56
Speaker 2: never found, why do you believe she was sex assaulted?
35:59
Speaker 1: Well, this is why. Take a listen to our cut
36:01
Speaker 1: sixty seven.
36:02
Speaker 18: And finally got to rubin police officials to accompany us
36:06
Speaker 18: to his.
36:06
Speaker 1: Home in that early morning hour.
36:10
Speaker 18: It began to get heated because Uran began to describe
36:13
Speaker 18: to the men from home about the.
36:15
Speaker 1: Sexual activity that he engaged in with badly in the
36:18
Speaker 1: backseat of the car were they were very graphic.
36:20
Speaker 17: I could just probably safely say just very sexually explicit.
36:24
Speaker 3: Activity that he was engaging with her in the backseat
36:26
Speaker 3: of the car.
36:27
Speaker 18: And he's saying that she's falling asleep and waking up,
36:29
Speaker 18: and falling asleep and waking up. So they're hearing that
36:33
Speaker 18: she's drug and that she's I.
36:35
Speaker 17: Mean, this is against her will because she can't choose.
36:38
Speaker 1: Her free will.
36:40
Speaker 18: And so after that happened, then Duran was insistent that
36:44
Speaker 18: after all that activity that engaged.
36:47
Speaker 1: In with her, he took her back to the holiday
36:48
Speaker 1: in hotel and dropped her off. Well that's not true,
36:52
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum.
36:53
Speaker 2: Do you recall Beth telling us that Jorn Vandersluit's father
36:59
Speaker 2: actually was at the casino.
37:01
Speaker 9: Yes, not only was he at the casino. Again, he
37:04
Speaker 9: knew his son was underage, He knew what his practice
37:08
Speaker 9: was there. He knew that everybody at the hotel, the restaurant,
37:13
Speaker 9: and the casino knew how old he was and knew that,
37:16
Speaker 9: you know, the game he was running on tourists because
37:20
Speaker 9: he would not approach them or assault them until the
37:24
Speaker 9: night before they were set to leed. So what he
37:27
Speaker 9: knew is this victim was not going to stay on
37:30
Speaker 9: this island to press charges. She was going to, you know,
37:33
Speaker 9: make her flight to go home, because all that had
37:36
Speaker 9: been pre arranged and paid for. So he had this
37:39
Speaker 9: down to a science. He would meet them, befriend them.
37:44
Speaker 9: He would lie about where he was from. He would
37:46
Speaker 9: say he was from the Netherlands, he would lie about
37:48
Speaker 9: his age, he would act like he didn't know the
37:51
Speaker 9: area either, and all of this was just part.
37:53
Speaker 2: Of his mo Tarn Harris, you were on the ground
37:56
Speaker 2: at the very beginning, and you've been through so much
38:00
Speaker 2: trying to find the answer to what happened to Natalie Holloway.
38:05
Speaker 6: What do you think, Well, I think that he had
38:07
Speaker 6: the whole formula down, as Cheryl said, he had the
38:10
Speaker 6: roofies ready, he had whatever he slipped into their drinks,
38:13
Speaker 6: and he knew how much to make them unconscious enough
38:17
Speaker 6: to let him lead them away. And there's probably other
38:21
Speaker 6: I heard rumors of other bodies that we don't even
38:24
Speaker 6: know about. I mean, if you wanted to put the
38:27
Speaker 6: word out and really make the make a roof upset,
38:30
Speaker 6: you know, have billboards, don't let your daughter go through
38:34
Speaker 6: the island of death and have Natalie's picture up there.
38:38
Speaker 2: Whether Nllie's remains will ever be found is a question
38:41
Speaker 2: that hangs over the current investigation and soon to be
38:46
Speaker 2: prosecution in a US court of law for extortion and
38:51
Speaker 2: wirefraud trying to bleed Natalie's mother drive a quarter million
38:56
Speaker 2: dollars in exchange for the truth about her daughter.
39:00
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Good Bye friend,