Latest / SoWhoCaresAnyway / SoWhoCaresAnyway E41 Rewiring, Rebuliding, Becoming

Transcript

SoWhoCaresAnyway E41 Rewiring, Rebuliding, Becoming · SoWhoCaresAnyway

• 0:04
  Welcome to So Who Cares.
• 0:06
  Anyway, a fortnightly podcast exploring stories that shape care community and the systems we live in.
• 0:12
  I'm Ruth Germaine, and in each episode I'm joined by my guests, people from behind clinical doors to the North York malls, whose experiences open a window into how we care for one another.
• 0:24
  Together, we explore care through creativity, connection, and the strengths we already hold.
• 0:31
  Because care isn't small.
• 0:32
  Care isn't soft care shapes the world, so who cares? Anyway, it's time to talk about it.
• 0:42
  Hi, it's Ruth here, and before we begin today, I just wanted to say that when I first met Lucy through LinkedIn, and I'd never word heard of the word trence.
• 0:50
  I saw it on her LinkedIn profile, but it was actually Lucy's vibrancy and her warmth and her energy that drew me in.
• 0:58
  Um, I just made me curious, but I quickly realized as we had our initial conversation that this isn't something just for people that are pregnant.
• 1:07
  Or who are thinking about having the baby, because that's what Mires Essence relates to.
• 1:11
  It's actually for partners, families, workplaces, and anyone really who supports new parents.
• 1:17
  So if you've never heard it before, you're not alone.
• 1:20
  I've been there, but stay with it.
• 1:22
  This one really matters.
• 1:25
  Hello, and um, hello today to Lucy Wilson.
• 1:28
  Welcome Lucy, to um, so who cares.
• 1:31
  Anyway, I'm really delighted to have you on my show.
• 1:35
  And, um, before we start, I'm just gonna say we met via LinkedIn and I saw your profile and, um, it's the most gorgeous, um, orange or yellow.
• 1:46
  And pink colors.
• 1:47
  And that was the first thing that just drew me to think, oh wow, it's like a ray of sunshine around you that you've got.
• 1:54
  And I just thought, that's the most gorgeous profile.
• 1:56
  And I immediately was interested and thought, yeah, I need to link with Lucy.
• 2:01
  And then I.
• 2:02
  Hence we had a chat and, uh, you are here today, so I wonder if you just want to, well, I'll, I'll start off just saying that what I not, uh, saw on your, um, profile was that you are the, um, the founder or, I dunno if that's the word that you use, of the, um, Meres empowerment program.
• 2:19
  And I have to be really honest.
• 2:20
  Until that point, I didn't know what Mistress was, so I wonder if you want to introduce yourself, perhaps give a little brief explanation of what that is and then we can sort of.
• 2:29
  Perhaps, uh, go on from there.
• 2:31
  Of course.
• 2:31
  That's really lovely to be with here today, Ruth.
• 2:33
  So it's, I have to say it's mares essence's, mares essence.
• 2:37
  Yes.
• 2:37
  I did practice it and I've obviously forgotten.
• 2:40
  It's tricky.
• 2:40
  It's so tricky because it's not a word that's in common use, and that's something I'm really passionate about trying to change.
• 2:47
  So it's the Metres Essence empowerment program, and tres essence is the period from when you are pregnant.
• 2:54
  All the way through into motherhood and it can last for years, and you change mentally, physically, emotionally.
• 3:01
  Your whole identity changes.
• 3:02
  The relationships you have with yourself and everyone and everything around you changes.
• 3:08
  And the easiest way to think of it is like when you go through adolescence.
• 3:11
  So it's matress.
• 3:13
  Like adolescence, but unlike when you're a teenager.
• 3:17
  When you're a teenager, you learn about it from an early age.
• 3:20
  Your parents are ready for it.
• 3:21
  The school is supporting you through it.
• 3:23
  There's a whole culture around being a teenager, whereas the with mares essence, a lot of this is missing and the.
• 3:31
  Term was first coined in the 1970s by some, a lady called Dana Raphael.
• 3:36
  So she was an anthropologist.
• 3:37
  Um, and, but unfortunately it was lost then in sort of academic research and literature for, for many years.
• 3:44
  And then three years ago, an amazing book came out called, uh, by Lucy Jones, with the same name, just Trence.
• 3:50
  And there's also been some Ted Talks about it and some other people bringing it in.
• 3:54
  Um, a lady called Alexander Sacks as well, I think.
• 3:56
  Um.
• 3:57
  And it's really, there's a, there's a huge sort of buzz around it at the moment because the Peanut parenting app and Tommy Tippy organizations have started a massive campaign.
• 4:08
  They took an advert in the New York Times to say, why is this term not in the dictionary in comparison to.
• 4:17
  Gosh, and I don't know what the word is, but it's like a made up word.
• 4:21
  So what they're saying is, you know, we have all of these random things that go in the dictionary nowadays that are just made up fluff.
• 4:28
  Compared to this word ens, which is such a massive and important transition that so many women go through, and yet it's not formally recognized in so many dictionaries.
• 4:40
  And also just in general society and culture.
• 4:43
  Thank you Lucy.
• 4:44
  And that's given us a really good background.
• 4:45
  And what I will just say, 'cause I'm gonna come back a look, go backwards a little bit in the moment.
• 4:50
  The following day, as you know, because I've, I've messaged you 'cause I couldn't believe it.
• 4:53
  My daughter actually sent me a, a link to sign the, uh, a petition for this to actually be added to the dictionary.
• 5:00
  And, um, as you say, we have so many different words now, but this, this is one that just isn't in there.
• 5:06
  So my step back is so.
• 5:07
  What got you interested in this, Lucy? So let's have a little bit more about you.
• 5:12
  Um, yeah.
• 5:12
  'cause when we spoke before, I just found that fascinating and interesting.
• 5:16
  Obviously just given as much as you want to.
• 5:18
  Yeah, no, of course.
• 5:19
  So in my old life I worked in, uh, marketing and comms, pr, things like that.
• 5:27
  And so it's 10 years ago now.
• 5:29
  I went off work to have my first baby and really excited, very, very much a planner, very much an organized person doing everything.
• 5:39
  Um, and then we got thrown a really big curve ball because my son wasn't very well.
• 5:44
  So he had a medical condition that meant that he had to have an operation at five days old, and then he had to have another two operations in the first seven months.
• 5:52
  These are pretty serious.
• 5:54
  You know, we, we knew that he was gonna be okay.
• 5:56
  They told you that.
• 5:57
  But obviously having operations on a tiny, tiny baby is still incredibly traumatic.
• 6:01
  And when it's your first child, um, I was left with a lot of trauma, um, and I had massive, massive anxiety.
• 6:10
  I had really bad intrusive thoughts and I, but I didn't know what they were.
• 6:16
  And so I was so, so stressed and it wasn't until I told a medical professional after I'd been having them for quite a while and they said, oh yeah, that's really normal.
• 6:24
  That's just 'cause you're so stressed.
• 6:25
  And I just thought.
• 6:27
  Well, why couldn't, why didn't I know about that already? Why did I have to go for so long, you know, having these thoughts.
• 6:34
  Um, and it made me feel like there was something in the matter of me because why am I thinking about awful things happening to my baby? You know? And, and as it was, it's a coping mechanism because actually you are trying to keep your baby safe, but you are overly trying to keep your baby safe because you are on massive high alert.
• 6:48
  It's like being, being in like super, super fight or flight the whole time.
• 6:52
  Um, so obviously this was very traumatic, but it didn't put us off.
• 6:56
  Three years later we had another child, and luckily he wasn't born without this medical condition, but he just didn't sleep.
• 7:03
  And so that was very difficult and I'd had a c-section the first time when I was pregnant.
• 7:07
  The second time I was close to 40, they said.
• 7:11
  There's, there's quite a high likelihood of tearing.
• 7:14
  So you are, it's a good idea to have another C-section so you don't rip.
• 7:17
  And I was thought, well, I'll definitely do that.
• 7:20
  But what I hadn't thought about was the fact that.
• 7:22
  Having a C-section when it's your first baby and it's just you and the baby you're looking after, is very different to having a toddler.
• 7:28
  You know, I had a 3-year-old at home trying to climb on me, so I was let out of hospital 24 hours later, come home, you know, tiny baby, but also a a little boy climbing all over me when I've got a ginormous scar.
• 7:39
  You know, just open on me.
• 7:41
  Which was just very difficult because then my, the first sort of interactions with Sebastian, his brother Bertie, was like, get down.
• 7:48
  But also I was just completely overwhelmed and I was very lucky that my parents live in our village and I went and stayed with them for five days and it wasn't gonna be as long, but it's because, um, the baby didn't sleep, so Bertie just didn't sleep.
• 8:00
  And I was up, you know, all night for these first five days and then.
• 8:04
  That was a sign of things to come.
• 8:05
  Unfortunately, he was just awake every two hours and he could feed, he could breastfeed, which that my first son couldn't because of his condition.
• 8:12
  And I'd found that another, that was another thing that really upset me.
• 8:15
  But Bertie could feed, but he would then feed every two hours.
• 8:18
  So, fast forward, funnily enough, six years ago now to when COVID hit Yes, and we went into lockdown.
• 8:25
  I'd spent five months not sleeping, you know, only sleeping in two hour chunks, having.
• 8:31
  What I wasn't expecting, how guilty I would feel about that thing of where you just have one child and then you have another one, and the guilt you feel from the child who doesn't like the new child.
• 8:42
  Suddenly we'd brought home somebody else and he was not impressed.
• 8:45
  And this was made even worse.
• 8:46
  Obviously, COVID hit suddenly, Sebastian couldn't go to preschool.
• 8:52
  He was just a bit too young for the cutoff, so I was really tired.
• 8:56
  My anxiety was huge.
• 8:58
  And then we had the extra fear.
• 9:02
  Of them saying he, he had what they called it.
• 9:04
  They loved this phrase at the time, a precon, a pre-existing health condition.
• 9:09
  Do you remember that? So if you had a pre-existing health condition, we dunno how COVID might impact you.
• 9:14
  And so because my eldest son had this condition, I was absolutely terrified of what might happen if, if I got COVID, I wouldn't be able to look after them if he got COVID.
• 9:24
  You know, it was a complete unknown.
• 9:26
  And the thing was, the year before when he was two, Sebastian had ended up in hospital just through flu.
• 9:31
  Because of his condition.
• 9:33
  He gets things that could, he could get very dehydrated very quickly and make him very weak.
• 9:38
  I was just, you know, I was just beside myself really.
• 9:41
  When COVID came along and I had some very, very dark times, and I say, I like to say it's that Groundhog Day.
• 9:48
  It was like every day was just, you know.
• 9:50
  Awful, but just nothing was ever changing.
• 9:53
  It was just always the same thing of trying to get Bertie to sleep and have naps so that he would sleep better at night and trying to look after Sebastian and I just did a lot of crying.
• 10:03
  My husband luckily was working at home, but of course he was just on calls all day.
• 10:07
  So sometimes I used to ask for five minutes so I could just go into the bedroom and cry and then come back out again.
• 10:12
  But after a while, I sort of realized nobody was coming to save me.
• 10:16
  And that I had to do something about it because I couldn't carry on the way I was.
• 10:21
  I don't think I had postal depression.
• 10:22
  I just think it was a circumstances and the fact that I hadn't dealt with the trauma of everything I'd experienced already when I'd had my first son and all the complications and the trauma of that just all sort of like piled on me at once.
• 10:36
  But yeah, I just realized nobody was come to save me and I had to start doing things to look after myself.
• 10:41
  And by doing that I would get better to be able to look after everybody else.
• 10:44
  Yeah.
• 10:44
  So and so from, that's why I start, I got really interested in, you know, looking at mental health and what I could do, starting to do exercise again, doing lots, lots and lots of things to do with my mindset, um, and meditations and things like that.
• 10:58
  And the more I focused on it, the better I got.
• 11:01
  And the.
• 11:02
  My initial business idea came from this and the fact I got really interested in the idea of digital nature.
• 11:08
  And at the time everyone was obviously locked in doors and I realized how much I relied on going outside into nature to help my wellbeing.
• 11:15
  That's what I'd always done.
• 11:16
  But of course you weren't allowed to.
• 11:17
  And we were very, very strict on following the rules because I was so terrified about what might happen if people didn't follow the rules, including us.
• 11:26
  Um, but then I found out that if you look at images of nature or videos of nature.
• 11:31
  Then you can get the same, um, feelings of relaxation.
• 11:35
  So it opens up your parasympathetic nervous system.
• 11:37
  It helps to reduce your stress at the time and also build up your tolerances to future stress as well.
• 11:43
  So I came up with this idea of making wellbeing classes that would be like a fitness class, but with something to help your brain at the same time.
• 11:51
  So I sort of went full headstrong into making these wellbeing classes and.
• 11:56
  The very act of starting this new project and becoming so interested actually really helped me get better.
• 12:03
  Um, and so I made these classes with, um, instructors in, um, the studio and all the classes began with meditations and then had positive affirmations that you would do as you were then doing physical exercises and then montages of digital nature or all the backgrounds and.
• 12:21
  I wanted them to be able to help mothers and to help lots of different people.
• 12:26
  Um, but mothers was my main aim.
• 12:28
  But the more I sort of learned about mental health and maternal mental health, the more I realized what a huge thing it was.
• 12:36
  And this is when I found out about Mitre Essence and the fact that I'd thought that just giving somebody a wellbeing sort of class.
• 12:44
  Is like some, yes, it's a nice to have and it's good for helping you at the time, but it's not, it's not as, it's not as influential to your wellbeing as to actually understand what's happening to you.
• 12:55
  And so when I found out about Mires Essence, I couldn't believe that there was something that explained what was happening to so many people That wasn't.
• 13:03
  Out there for people to understand, and I thought that if women could understand what they were going through and why they could feel so turned upside down, then the potential to help them feel better and not so lost was huge.
• 13:17
  And that was when I started my business.
• 13:19
  My business sort of grew from these wellbeing classes into an education program as well, in so much as educating about trence, but also educating about maternal mental health and then educating about all the different ways that we can look after ourselves from nutrition.
• 13:33
  To sleep, to breath work and mindfulness.
• 13:37
  Understanding how all these tools and how they can help us, but obviously understanding the overarching things of what can happen to you and how you can basically keep yourself well.
• 13:46
  And then ever since then, I've just sort of been obsessed with all of it, basically.
• 13:51
  No, that's absolutely wonderful.
• 13:53
  And um, I'm pleased that you had this obsession 'cause then you can come along and tell us all about it today.
• 13:57
  But, you know, I'm just reflecting as I'm thinking about it.
• 14:00
  And of course, I'm a mother myself and certainly some of these things, you know, one, my second child had to go for a surgery, was unwell for a while.
• 14:08
  Um.
• 14:09
  A C-section been there, you know, and un and understand that completely.
• 14:14
  But there's lots of things that you've mentioned there as well about mental health and how you are feeling and being able to cope with that.
• 14:20
  And um, yeah, I can definitely identify with those things and I think that probably many.
• 14:24
  Many people listening today, I think they'd be sitting there thinking, yes, I can identify with that.
• 14:29
  And I don't just mean the booming, because you mentioned there as well, having to say to your husband, can you just give me five minutes while I go and cry? And of course the impact on partners is just as massive as well.
• 14:41
  And they, you know, with, they're suddenly shocked with this thing of, oh my goodness, I, you know, I've gotta take this on as well.
• 14:47
  I was expecting to have to cope with the baby, but now.
• 14:50
  You know, my wife, my partner, whoever that, whoever or whatever that might look like, is somebody different as well.
• 14:57
  Not different, but you know what I mean.
• 14:58
  There's, there's a difference.
• 15:00
  And this scent suddenly gives us something to say, well, why aren't we talking about it? And um, I'm just sort of thinking as I speak, it's a, we know the word menopause, but it's taken years for us to be able to say it without going, oh, she's going through the menopause.
• 15:13
  You know, that's having little whisper.
• 15:15
  Let's say it quietly, let's not talk about it.
• 15:17
  So being able to talk about that.
• 15:20
  Openly.
• 15:20
  So I think maybe there's something around that, why this has been held back and not been something that's talked about.
• 15:27
  But actually it affects women, but if we don't talk about it, it affects men and it affects the children as well, doesn't it? Yeah.
• 15:34
  And I did, um, I did a talk last week.
• 15:37
  And it was to a room full of women in general, but there was a cameraman there.
• 15:41
  And the cameraman said to me afterwards, he said, um, I think this would be really helpful for dads.
• 15:46
  And I thought that he was talking about a program that was helping support dads in the way that, um, my program is to support mothers.
• 15:52
  And he said no.
• 15:53
  Like he said, he said, no.
• 15:54
  I mean, understanding tres essence.
• 15:56
  He said, I think it'll be so valuable.
• 15:58
  He said, for me as a dad, I would've loved to understand.
• 16:02
  When my wife was going through it, it would've been really valuable for me to understand why, how, how she's feeling, and all the different changes that she's going through.
• 16:11
  So it's, it's really true and I think that like, it's a really good point that you make with menopause because I think.
• 16:17
  Where menopause was like five years ago or so.
• 16:20
  I think that's why we are with Mires Essence now, and I think that organizations are gonna start realizing just how important it is.
• 16:27
  Because when it's not supported at work, this is when so many people leave the workforce and there's huge numbers of women leave when they become mothers because I think they're not supported in, in, uh, working flexibly and things like that, but also they go through such.
• 16:45
  Identity shifts, but also if they're not supported in the right way and they don't understand what's going on, then it can have a huge, massive impact on their confidence.
• 16:53
  And I think that that happens to so many women and when they're not getting enough support, because I love the NHS, but if you see there was a freedom of information request that came out a few years ago now.
• 17:03
  Um, and it just spoke of how many women had reached out to get support and just didn't get anything at all.
• 17:08
  And so part of my program is making sure that we can offer people, everybody gets.
• 17:13
  A support session with a therapist included in in the program, because I think that's like the tip of the iceberg.
• 17:20
  The official stats from the NHS are like one in four or one in five women will suffer with their mental health.
• 17:25
  But those are just the people that actually go forward and reach out, and you've got to be pretty.
• 17:30
  You know, in pretty difficult situation to do that.
• 17:33
  Whereas I think it was Good Housekeeping did a survey of a couple of thousand women and three out of four said they suffered with their mental health.
• 17:40
  And I said that to an another room of women, um, a leadership group that I went to last year, and they said they thought that all the women suffered with their mental health when they had a baby.
• 17:50
  So.
• 17:51
  I think it's, I think it's massive and I think that like menopause for a long time, women have just been able to expect it to get on with it, but we don't want women leaving the workforce.
• 18:00
  It's, it's not good financially for women's independence and for our, you know, for leadership pipelines, but also for women's, like, you know, things like, you know.
• 18:08
  Pensions and things like that.
• 18:09
  The, the impact it has on, on a woman throughout her life, if she's not supported at this key period, can have really massive, long lasting effects.
• 18:17
  And for families as well, in general for the actual family, because if women, you know, it's, and, and.
• 18:22
  For a lot of the time people can't afford to stay home either, you know, in, you know, some families might be able to afford to have a woman stay home.
• 18:29
  A woman might want to stay home.
• 18:30
  But in a lot of times women don't want to do that.
• 18:32
  Women want to go out and have their own career as well, but be supported when they need it.
• 18:37
  Yes.
• 18:37
  Yeah.
• 18:38
  And often need to.
• 18:40
  And of course, um, society needs us to, because so many of us are in roles that actually, if we don't carry on those roles, I mean, just taking my own role as a nurse, you know, at that point I was still a clinical nurse.
• 18:52
  If I hadn't gone back to work then, then that's a huge impact, isn't it? So, and there's lots of other roles as well.
• 18:58
  You know, a lot of people think, well, of course all nurse, many nurses are female.
• 19:01
  But that's just, you know, how it stemmed out.
• 19:04
  Many of them aren't now, but there's so many women in so many different roles.
• 19:08
  Their knowledge and skills and intelligence that they've gained, we, we can't, as a society, afford to lose.
• 19:15
  Absolutely.
• 19:16
  Yeah.
• 19:17
  I know you've explained what Rece is, but I'm just wondering if you can just give some, some more detail or maybe for people out there listening to think about what it is and, and what they can do about it.
• 19:27
  And maybe, I dunno, if you have stories, want to do that through a story of telling something or whether, I mean, you do your workshops, you've probably got ways of explaining this to people, so, so I'll leave it to you, Lucy, how you want to give us a little bit more depth and information, if you like about it.
• 19:42
  Yeah.
• 19:43
  Um, I think it's just.
• 19:45
  You start to change because your priorities change.
• 19:48
  I mean, your whole brain is rewired when you go through scent.
• 19:51
  And I dunno, there's been some, um, articles recently about your, your gray matter sort of shrinks, which, uh, initially that sounds, oh, is that a bad thing? But actually what's happening is your brain is being rewired for the job that it needs to do.
• 20:06
  And to do that it means that it's meaning you are, you are basically getting set up, ready to be able to.
• 20:11
  Um, meet the challenges and demands of your baby to make sure that you can look after it and so, so to make sure that you can connect with what your baby wants when it wants it.
• 20:21
  But actually, although you it so you shrink and that sounds like a negative thing.
• 20:26
  It's not a negative thing 'cause it's actually women end up with more benefits from these rewiring, but.
• 20:33
  Essentially what it can lead to, and this is why I think it's so important for us to educate women about it, is because people can start feeling like they're not themselves, and you feel a bit lost, and it's at the same time that you've got so many things changing with your body.
• 20:46
  Like for example, when you're pregnant, you know your hormones are fluctuating, your body starts to change so much, and if you measure it again, like going through adolescence, when you go through puberty, your body starts to change shape.
• 20:59
  And a lot of women.
• 21:00
  Have said that they don't feel like their body is theirs.
• 21:04
  When they're pregnant because it changes so much.
• 21:07
  And even then when you come out of the other side and you've had the baby, your body doesn't suddenly shrink down, you know? Or, or, or, you know, it doesn't go back into the same shape that it was.
• 21:15
  It, it takes years for your body.
• 21:18
  It's, you know, is a huge deal.
• 21:19
  And especially like you said, for people who have c-sections, it's a huge operation so that.
• 21:24
  You.
• 21:24
  You can feel disconnected.
• 21:26
  So you can feel disconnected from your body, but often like disc dis disconnected from your life, it impacts you in so many different ways.
• 21:33
  I think one of the points that I focus on is factor sometimes loneliness in the fact that you are going through this big transition.
• 21:44
  But suddenly you are, you are.
• 21:45
  You're not in your normal life because if you're working before you have, you know, have the baby, you are often in a big team.
• 21:52
  You are part of something.
• 21:53
  You are part, you know, you have a role at work, you're doing something, and then you come out of that and your world can really shrink.
• 21:59
  And suddenly you are just with this baby doing these tasks and nobody's thanking you, and you're not getting that sort of like appraisal that you would do from, from your team or from your manager or something.
• 22:10
  And it can leave people feeling sort of just lost and really lonely.
• 22:14
  Sometimes people report that they're on their own for eight hours a day with nobody to talk to, and you sort of, I think a lot of your world just goes into your head.
• 22:22
  And I think that's why it's so important that we have communities and people go out and see people or you know, have communities online because so much of the stuff is changing around you.
• 22:32
  And then also.
• 22:34
  One of the big things about Matre is that your priorities change because how do you now feel you are suddenly going to, you are growing this baby, but then once you've had it, you are looking after this baby.
• 22:43
  How do you feel? You might not feel the same way about things before because you are suddenly more focused on looking after the baby.
• 22:50
  So things that you cared about before, you don't have the head space for, and, and so you sometimes that can feel weird.
• 22:57
  You can't necessarily.
• 22:58
  Connect with people around you in the same way that you did before.
• 23:02
  Depending on what your friendship groups and people are doing at the same level as you.
• 23:06
  Maybe you've had a baby earlier than them, you know, they're all still going out.
• 23:09
  You don't feel like you can do that.
• 23:11
  Um, even things with your partner, you, your relationship won't be the same after you've had a baby.
• 23:18
  And you might feel like you've massively changed their priorities of change, of what they have to do as well.
• 23:22
  And it's really important.
• 23:23
  One of the things that we do in our program is get people to do, um, a wellbeing plan with their partner so you can look at how you're gonna support your wellbeing and each other's wellbeing when the baby comes along because.
• 23:36
  Bringing a baby into a relationship can be a very high stressful environment.
• 23:41
  Suddenly you are having a massive lack of sleep often unless you're incredibly lucky and it can be very difficult to try and balance things.
• 23:50
  Um, and so many different things of scent, I think are just about finding your feet and realizing that things are so different that you might not have expected them to be so different.
• 24:01
  And I think that's why we, we have, so I've got a scent expert in the program and it's all about.
• 24:07
  Being compassionate with yourself.
• 24:08
  I think that's always the number one thing.
• 24:10
  Understanding that you're going through changes and sort of giving yourself grace to be finding your feet and saying that you're not wrong and you're not lost.
• 24:19
  You are just sort of transitioning into a new version of yourself.
• 24:23
  And that's okay.
• 24:24
  And sometimes you might feel a bit weird along the way, but you will get there.
• 24:29
  And you just have to give yourself patience and grace and realize it's about realizing that you are going through massive changes.
• 24:38
  Some of the big some and some of the most profound changes that you know the scientists have shown.
• 24:42
  It's physically and mentally, it's some of the most profound changes that you will ever go through in your entire life.
• 24:47
  And so I think the main thing with Matress essence is understanding that you're going through all these changes mentally and physically, and that you give yourself permission.
• 24:56
  To, to not feel quite right, but know that that's okay, because I think a lot of the worry that is, is you feel, oh my God, I just don't feel like myself.
• 25:05
  I dunno who I am.
• 25:06
  I feel, you know, I don't, I feel really topsy-turvy, but I'm also trying to look after this baby.
• 25:10
  And you, and so many of us nowadays put so much pressure on ourselves with looking after the baby, wanting to get everything right, wanting to be the best that we possibly can.
• 25:19
  And then if you also feel like you don't know who you are at that point, then that's a really good mix to make you feel.
• 25:25
  You know, slightly stressed and overwhelmed.
• 25:30
  This podcast is all about collective voices, so if you're enjoying it, please subscribe and share it across your networks, your friends, your family, your colleagues.
• 25:40
  This way we can amplify the voice, share the stories further, and it will help to keep the podcast going.
• 25:46
  Now back to the conversation.
• 25:50
  Yeah, and there's, there's so much that you've mentioned there, Lucy, and I just wanna go back to the bit where you spoke about the gray matter and that reducing, because we've heard for years, haven't we? Women's brain shrink during pregnancy and it's a.
• 26:04
  Been said with negative connotations.
• 26:06
  And of course as a woman, sometimes we, we feel that because of the things that you've said, because suddenly we are feeling that mentally perhaps we don't cope as well, we're more likely to be tear or we're worrying.
• 26:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:16
  We we're completely different person.
• 26:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:18
  Um, all of those things that you've said, so it feels like.
• 26:22
  You are not able to do that.
• 26:23
  And I know that when I went back to work or, and when I've spoken to family and friends and they say about going back to work, you feel like, oh, I can't quite pick up where I left off because my brain's not working so well.
• 26:34
  So we see it as a negative.
• 26:36
  So I really like that you spoke about the fact that it is actually a rewiring of the brain to be able to do what it is that you need to do.
• 26:42
  So it isn't anything wrong with that.
• 26:44
  Um, I might be wrong here, but I read something.
• 26:47
  I remember reading it, so I, I can't, when I say I might be wrong, I know I read it, but whether or not it's actually right, and this is where I sometimes think that perhaps there's not enough research around these things, but it was saying that men that engaged during their women, uh, their partner's pregnancies and go along to perhaps watch the scans and more involved with their partner.
• 27:07
  Perhaps feeling, you know, hearing the heartbeat, feeling the baby move and kick.
• 27:11
  Actually that starts to change their gray matter as well.
• 27:14
  I could be completely wrong, but I remember hearing that somewhere, so I just wanted to bring that in and just see what, what your thought was on that.
• 27:21
  If I, if I read something that's completely wrong or is there something in there? There is Petre essence for fathers.
• 27:27
  And so we, I've, um, there are some changes that do happen for Venezuela.
• 27:31
  I don't think they're quite as, um, profound in this in the same way.
• 27:35
  No, of course.
• 27:35
  But I, but I do think that when men are, uh, when men are involved and it does have changes to them, I think that is right.
• 27:40
  I think I have read that there are some changes as well in their brains.
• 27:44
  Non birthing partners as well.
• 27:45
  Just in general.
• 27:46
  I think when you are a caregiver and for, um, adoptive parents and people that go into these roles and start to spend a lot of time with babies and give them care, then they go through um, similar, similar changes as well, not exactly the same, you know, 'cause it's biologically different.
• 28:00
  But they will go through some of these changes as well.
• 28:03
  Yeah.
• 28:03
  Okay.
• 28:04
  It's just interesting to think about and that sort of wider impact and, and probably important as well.
• 28:09
  But, you know, let's stick to the addresses for today.
• 28:12
  But I think bringing dads and involving them is just so important.
• 28:15
  Um, or partners, um, whoever they might be.
• 28:19
  But, um, the other thing that I was, um, just struck by and thinking about while we were talking was the fact that actually if we don't have this.
• 28:29
  Term.
• 28:29
  Term and we don't recognize it, then presumably it's missing from all the research that's out there.
• 28:36
  So we are not actually studying it, and we know that women's health is under researched and underlooked at, and it's missing.
• 28:42
  And it's, it's not just something we're saying, you know, I can't refer to anything at the moment, but it, it was one of those things that's known and I just wonder what that impact is and, and how much we need to.
• 28:53
  Perhaps, you know, think about that or promote that or if that's something that you've sort of, um, spoken about or, I'm across literally reading a book called Baby Brain at the moment, which is by a neuroscientist in Australia.
• 29:04
  And um, she has been doing a lot of work and luckily there are a lot more female neuroscientists now, and so I think they are doing a lot more of work in this area.
• 29:15
  And so they've been scanning women's brains and that was one of the things, um.
• 29:19
  That's come out recently about the changes and about the monitoring.
• 29:21
  What happens to the brains, um, as you go through pregnancy.
• 29:25
  They've been doing it well with volunteers all through pregnancies, but I think that there's still a massive amount of, um, research lacking in this area.
• 29:33
  But I think, like I say, because so many more women are working in, in scientific fields, more is coming through, but they're finding it difficult.
• 29:41
  Um, they're finding sometimes it's difficult with the funding.
• 29:46
  You know, um, and even I, I saw a thing, which is funny, they said that they, they couldn't, they couldn't do one of the projects because they wanted to just do women, but they decided it had to be 50 50 had to be men and fema, men and women in this, in to get the funding.
• 30:01
  But it was just something that was on women's bodies and so silly things like that.
• 30:05
  They then didn't get the funding put through because it wasn't a 50 50 split.
• 30:10
  So it's like, I think, I think we've got a way to go in making these things.
• 30:15
  Work.
• 30:16
  You know? Yes.
• 30:17
  But, but there's, yeah, this, we're definitely moving in the right direction and I think awareness is one of the first things, and raising it and getting, getting people just in general to understand, I think has a massive impact.
• 30:29
  Certainly for me, that's one of my key missions is raising awareness, because I think that that's the first step.
• 30:36
  Um, in helping just general people like me, you know, general moms out there, women becoming mothers dads to understand as well.
• 30:43
  Yeah, I was just sort of thinking about in that wider sense of research, but you're right.
• 30:47
  If we can just start at the beginning and just raise that awareness, then that's really important and the things that you were talking about, about the wellbeing plans and, and what needs to to happen.
• 30:57
  So what else is it that you are, that you.
• 30:59
  I know you do your workshops, you've talked us through some of those things.
• 31:03
  So what else is there that you are doing at the moment? Is there anything else that we haven't covered? Yeah, so we've spoken about watching a program, so the Scents empowerment program, which is.
• 31:12
  Um, it's a program that supports mom, women from when they're three months pregnant, and it goes all the way through to when their child is two years old, because that's the key period when women can suffer with their mental health.
• 31:24
  And it means that essentially when they're at work and they go to HR and they say, I'm pregnant, then they can be looked after all the way through.
• 31:31
  And it means that we cover maternity leave because coming in and out of maternity leave can be a very difficult period for people.
• 31:37
  And so the fact that we go for a whole year sort of.
• 31:40
  The year plus afterwards means that we can help support people through that transition.
• 31:45
  'cause that can be a very difficult period.
• 31:47
  And the first year when people come back after maternity leave is often a key period where people leave the workforce because their confidence has been hit because they're not coping at work.
• 31:59
  Um, and it's certainly not, like you said, it's not because they don't have skills, uh, it's just because they're not getting the right support.
• 32:08
  And so the idea is that we educate them in that period when they're pregnant, and very much, uh, I very much believe that we need to educate people before they've had the baby because I think that so much can happen once you've had the baby.
• 32:20
  Um, and even it's not, I mean, I, I've gone through two sort of quite traumatic and un out of the ordinary experiences, but just for people who have a, like a standard experience, I think that once the baby comes along, you're so tired.
• 32:33
  And everything can seem so overwhelming that then trying to educate people at that point, it's not a good time to try and suddenly give them lots of information.
• 32:40
  Whereas if we give it to you first and embed it in, then you are prepared, ready to be able to sort of look after yourself.
• 32:46
  But then we have live sessions going along where we have people who support wellbeing, mental health, career progression, and so we can have q and As.
• 32:55
  We've also got, um, a midwife in the team as well.
• 32:58
  So I'm trying to cover all the bases and um, we work with a baby loss charity as well, so if people lose their baby at any point, then we cannot like give them counseling through the program.
• 33:07
  And as I said earlier, we have a therapy team of therapists as well so that we can offer everybody a therapy session.
• 33:12
  And it's a case of.
• 33:14
  For the last few years I've been working in this field and I've just been meeting amazing people that want to support moms and cover all sorts of amazing different topics that we can then draw everybody in together and be sort of like a one-stop shop that we can provide the comprehensive support and education for women.
• 33:31
  Just on that last bit, I'm just gonna say just in my own work, I just have, it always fascinates me that when we start doing something that we're passionate about, how many other people are out there that are doing something that's either the same or at least related that we can just sort of pull on and, and bring together.
• 33:47
  So yeah, that, that's just a sort of slightly offside reflection.
• 33:50
  But yeah, I just think it's a really nice thing.
• 33:52
  One of the best things about starting mayor is the fact that I've met so many incredible women.
• 33:57
  So I've, I think in the, in the team of people I've put together, there's seven experts and then another three.
• 34:02
  So, you know, there's like 10 amazing female businesses that have all been brought together, plus a wider community of, probably met about another 20 on top of that in the community for live sessions as well.
• 34:14
  But like you say, if I hadn't have started doing this, I wouldn't have realized there were so many incredible people out there and so passionate.
• 34:20
  Yeah, it's amazing.
• 34:21
  Yes.
• 34:21
  Yeah, it is.
• 34:22
  And it's, it's just wonderful.
• 34:23
  And it is the thing that keeps us going, isn't it? 'cause you know, that that in itself just keeps that spark happening.
• 34:28
  So going back to the, um, what you were just saying about, about launching your program and looking at women from three months to two, and perhaps even with what you've been doing up until now, I'm just thinking, have you got anything that you can perhaps, or an example or a story, so you might not want to, or maybe from feedback that you've had afterwards to tell us what.
• 34:48
  Differences has made because we can sort of imagine it, but it's always really nice to hear us.
• 34:53
  So there was somebody, and this, this is the difference it made or this is how it helped them? I truthfully can't yet because we're still in the early stages.
• 35:00
  I'm only just, um, sort of like pinning it out there at the moment.
• 35:03
  So we haven't had anybody come through it yet, but I can say that.
• 35:07
  The people who I'm working with are all experts in their fields because they've gone through this as well.
• 35:15
  And so sort of their enlightenment in their expertise has what's been, what's helped them, if that makes sense.
• 35:22
  Yes.
• 35:22
  So for example, our trence expert, she.
• 35:27
  Had, um, a difficult time becoming a mother herself, and that's what then drove her to become a scent expert.
• 35:34
  And now she's, she's coaching, you know, she coaches women through, um, their scent as well.
• 35:40
  So I, you know, we know that the impact it makes for everybody in their.
• 35:43
  Individual fields because all, all of the people in the program, the experts are all working with individuals, but we are bringing it now all together, so it's not been seen before.
• 35:55
  No, that's fine.
• 35:56
  Together.
• 35:56
  But I mean, yeah, everybody has, has got, you know, got their stories of people that they've helped individually, but it's never been.
• 36:04
  In a massive program like this before.
• 36:07
  No, I did think to myself when I was asking the question that you might well say that, and I think, and I, I thought, I thought, well, I'll still just ask, and it would also show just how new it is and how new these conversations are, but I thought I was, I was prepared, so I also thought to myself, well, if that isn't the case, then what I'm gonna ask, and I could probably even think about it for myself, you know, to be fair, is what difference would it have made to you if you'd known this Lucy? I think that understanding Tres essence and having all the other tools to be able to support myself would've made a massive difference.
• 36:40
  I think I just felt like I was turning into a completely different person and I didn't recognize myself, and I felt so alone.
• 36:47
  Even though I was surrounded by people and I was surrounded.
• 36:50
  I had a lot of care and I had a lot of support, but I just didn't really.
• 36:55
  I didn't really understand what was going on.
• 36:57
  And I think as well, if I'd have had, if I'd have had like a therapy session just promoted to me in the way that we would do it to people in the program and have that safe space to talk, I think that would've made a massive difference because I have since had therapy, but that was years later.
• 37:14
  And I think that if you could have something.
• 37:17
  At the time when you are really struggling, it makes much, much more sense than to wait years and years down the line.
• 37:23
  Yeah, I think that makes complete sense.
• 37:25
  And I'm thinking now back to the bit you're talking about that, um, not understanding and, and for myself, I think if I understood what was going on, it would've been so much easier for that.
• 37:35
  Self-acceptance.
• 37:37
  Yeah.
• 37:37
  'cause I think there is something about that because you, you almost sort of lose that self-acceptance.
• 37:41
  'cause you start thinking, well, I'm someone else now, or it's different.
• 37:44
  Or I just, I just should be getting on with this.
• 37:46
  Why, why can't I cope? Why aren't I doing it in the same way as I used to? Why isn't it working? And then you start to get that thing, and I was talking to a friend about this the other day, that you feel like you fail or you feel like you might.
• 37:58
  Be getting something wrong all the time.
• 38:01
  Yes.
• 38:01
  Yeah.
• 38:01
  You know, we were talking about something as simple as booking holidays and saying we have this terrible pit in our stomach of thinking, oh, what if I've booked the wrong date? What if it's really the 17th or the 19th and it's not the 18th that we need to leave? Have I booked the right annual leave? Does it match up? And it sort of stems, we, we both said, we didn't happen before we had children.
• 38:20
  But it's happening now and it still happens now.
• 38:22
  And you know, my youngest is in their thirties, so you know, it is all this time later.
• 38:28
  And I, I feel like having had the conversation, it might be easier next time, but I've always had that sense and that's just one example.
• 38:36
  I just think, I just would've felt not so alone.
• 38:38
  Mm-hmm.
• 38:39
  Um.
• 38:40
  And that's part of one of the things that I'm just really passionate about, building a community of people.
• 38:44
  Because I think it's very important for people to be able to, um, go out into their local communities and go and go to groups.
• 38:51
  But then at the same time, I've spoken to a lot of women.
• 38:53
  So since I've been building mayor, I've spoken to a lot of women about their experiences and I've, unfortunately, I've spoken to lots of people who just didn't have the confidence to go out.
• 39:02
  And I think that one of the things that you forget is that.
• 39:04
  We encourage mothers to go along to all these groups, but sometimes if you feel like you've completely lost yourself, you are sleep deprived, um, and you are struggling, just even doing basic things, getting outta the house can be a massive ordeal.
• 39:17
  And then also going and speaking to people that you don't know.
• 39:21
  One of the things about having a new baby is that unless you are really, really lucky and that you have one and it's.
• 39:26
  You know, you've got all friends having them at the same time.
• 39:28
  A lot of people are just having to go out and meet new people constantly.
• 39:31
  But you're not sort of in the best head space to be doing that.
• 39:34
  You're not feeling confident, you're not feeling like yourself.
• 39:36
  It can be very overwhelming.
• 39:38
  And so one of the things I'm passionate about is having this live sessions where people can come and have fun, we'll talk about really interesting subjects or help educate them at the same time, but also give a space for people to talk and share and, but from a safe point of view, so.
• 39:53
  You know, they, they don't have to go out.
• 39:55
  You know, we have an app and people can chat online and have these, um, online sessions where people can just still feel like they're part of a community.
• 40:05
  But when they're struggling at home, 'cause I spoke to people who they said they didn't go out for months and that's just, it's really sad and really difficult.
• 40:13
  Yeah, it is.
• 40:13
  And, and really hard.
• 40:15
  So we, there's that understanding, acceptance and being able to build that confidence.
• 40:19
  And then you spoke about wellbeing sessions and also therapy sessions.
• 40:23
  And I wonder if there's something about, actually I, I think probably just generally anyway, we need to normalize therapy.
• 40:29
  But certainly in this case, if we understand actually you've been through this, of course it's going to be hard.
• 40:34
  Of course it's gonna be difficult.
• 40:35
  Of course there's a difference in my brain.
• 40:37
  It has physically changed.
• 40:39
  Um, so what's that going to.
• 40:42
  You know, having therapy is absolutely fine.
• 40:45
  Rather than being, I'm having therapy 'cause there's something wrong, there's something happens and it takes me back to my conversation with Tracy Robinson, who I know that you know, and I know that you've listened to her, her episode 'cause you've said, but you know, she went through so much.
• 40:59
  But actually that is a part of.
• 41:02
  What might happen.
• 41:03
  I know that that was different for Tracy.
• 41:05
  Um, not every lady would have what Tracy had, but of course every, every woman will probably have some changes and that's fine.
• 41:13
  That's normal.
• 41:14
  And it's actually normal to just go and say, I need some help with this.
• 41:17
  Yeah.
• 41:18
  And it's creating a space.
• 41:19
  And the hot, one of the, like another key thing that I'm really passionate about is creating a space where we can say all of this is open.
• 41:26
  And it's not like.
• 41:27
  Talked about in Hush corners, because then that makes you feel worse saying, no, these, you know, let's talk about all this stuff.
• 41:32
  Women are having babies, they're grownups.
• 41:34
  There's not some reason why we can't talk about these things.
• 41:37
  We don't want to scare people, but we want to be realistic about things that might happen.
• 41:41
  And that's why we have one of, one of the experts as a mental health, um.
• 41:45
  Expert and she talks about maternal mental health.
• 41:47
  She suffered herself so she can talk about things to, she talks about things to look out for and things that are just common, and then things where you need to seek help.
• 41:57
  And Tracy is one of the people who would be in our wider community who I would want to do live sessions with that we can say, Hey, if you're feeling, you know you're struggling, come along to this.
• 42:06
  And it's the sort of thing I envision of seeing that we can have drop-in sessions with somebody, Tracy, someone like Tracy for all of these different things.
• 42:14
  To normalize it and for people to be able to reach out straight away without being sort of like thinking like, oh gosh, this is really taboo and it's something that we can't talk about.
• 42:23
  And then it's left for ages.
• 42:25
  'cause the sooner you can address these things and people get help, the better, you know, the get when things get left for longer.
• 42:32
  'cause it is, I spoke to somebody and she was saying that she had postnatal depression and she was really struggling, but she didn't want to tell people because she'd tried really hard to get the baby.
• 42:43
  So she's had a long fight to get a baby, and then she felt like she wasn't allowed.
• 42:47
  She wasn't valid to have those feelings because she felt like she should just be grateful she got the baby.
• 42:53
  You know, and I just think there's so many different, um, permutations of like, experiences of what people have and I just want to be able to create a space where everything is open and we can support everybody through what they're going through, and normalize things and normalize getting support.
• 43:09
  Like you say, I think everybody should have therapy.
• 43:12
  I think therapy is one of the best things and one of the good things about having working with the team that we've got on hand is that they can be there to just listen to people's.
• 43:23
  Struggles that are normal day-to-day struggles when they feel like they don't have another space to talk to or they can be there and they can realize when people are really, you know, having more difficulties and they need more serious support, and we can have that and we can be that person that steps in rather than it being left for however long.
• 43:42
  You know, and they're not getting the support because they're not, they're not sort of like in a program being looked after.
• 43:46
  Yeah.
• 43:47
  I think there's so much you said there, Lucy.
• 43:50
  It's just so important.
• 43:51
  And you know where you were saying that she just felt like she should be grateful that she's had a baby.
• 43:55
  Oh, it, it's awful.
• 43:57
  I just wanted to cry when she said yes.
• 44:00
  Yeah.
• 44:01
  And there's so much that women are going through, but actually it's normal.
• 44:04
  It's fine.
• 44:05
  And we just need to talk about it.
• 44:08
  I'm.
• 44:09
  Say one thing before, before we move on.
• 44:12
  'cause um, I'm just really conscious that we've spoken a lot and we have added in the word partners, but we've spoken a lot about dads.
• 44:17
  But of course it can be partners, it can be um, parents, it can be, you know, grandparents and other people that are that close person.
• 44:26
  It's about who is the, who is the.
• 44:28
  Other parent to that baby or who else is perhaps playing a really important role in with that baby? Because I know that just varies from family to family and perhaps we haven't sort of, we, we touched on that here and it doesn't mean that we need to touch on it, but I think we just need to recognize that that's the case.
• 44:44
  But my, we're just coming to the end really of our time, Lucy.
• 44:48
  So I just want to say, um, for me it's opened my eyes up.
• 44:52
  So much just having the conversation with you the other day before we done the podcast, and then today just so much more really got me thinking.
• 44:59
  But what is it that you want to say as your, your final thoughts, you know, whether it's a call to action, whether it's a, don't forget to do or whatever it is, and it can be to, you know.
• 45:10
  To just everybody who's listening or there might be something you think strategically needs to happen.
• 45:14
  Yeah, I mean that you want to say, yeah.
• 45:16
  My call to action is that we all need to learn the word mares essence and understand it and offer the right support to women and.
• 45:26
  And the right understanding of what they're going through because it's such a huge, profound change for them.
• 45:33
  And I think that my, uh, my business is all set up to help women at work, so women through businesses.
• 45:40
  Um, and I think that.
• 45:42
  It's really important that businesses understand what a huge change this is, but also that they understand what a great opportunity this is for supporting women and then keeping them in their organizations.
• 45:53
  Because as I mentioned before, when businesses lose incredible women, they lose their experience.
• 46:00
  They lose all of their knowledge, they lose all their skills, and just.
• 46:05
  If you lose a woman at this point, you know it can be such a shame for your business, and it can also cost your business a lot of money.
• 46:11
  So I think investing in the right support for your mothers, investing in education, for your managers, and just for your general staff, for everybody to have awareness, I think is really, really important and is just really beneficial for your leadership pipeline and just for keeping the great people inside your organization.
• 46:31
  Thank you, Lucy, and I think they're just, um, that's just so important, as you say at people's experience, knowledge and skills and just making sure that everybody's talking about it.
• 46:41
  So thank you.
• 46:42
  Thank you so much for joining me today.
• 46:44
  It's been a, an eye opening, but really lovely conversation and um, yeah, I'm just thinking about your ray of sunshine that you have round you, so I can't picture you without thinking about that.
• 46:54
  It's wonderful.
• 46:55
  Thank you so much for having me.
• 46:57
  I've loved it.
• 46:57
  Thank you.
• 46:58
  You're more than welcome.
• 46:59
  Take care now.
• 47:00
  Bye.
• 47:00
  Thank you.
• 47:01
  Bye.
• 47:03
  I hope today's conversation gave you something to think about.
• 47:07
  If it did, please share it with someone.
• 47:09
  Ripples matter.
• 47:10
  You can also follow the show so you don't miss future episodes, and if you have reflections or ideas.
• 47:16
  Please leave a rating or to support my work.
• 47:19
  Head over to my link tree, which you can find in the show notes.
• 47:23
  But for now, stay caring, stay connected, stay curious.
• 47:27
  Thanks for listening.
• 47:31
  Oh, wow.
• 47:32
  What struck me about that conversation was about how much there is that lies beneath the surface when becoming a parent.
• 47:39
  How important it's to understand the changes to the individual, but how important it's to understand why those changes are important to everybody.
• 47:49
  And the other thing that I've been thinking about.
• 47:51
  Since we, um, recorded this earlier on today, is that when we understand what's happening in our minds, what's happening in our bodies, what's happening in our lives, then we start to meet ourselves with far more compassion.
• 48:05
  So I think it's really important that we just talk about the things that happening and how they affect us.
• 48:11
  So thanks for listening.
• 48:14
  Hopefully you enjoyed it.
• 48:16
  Hopefully you found it useful.
• 48:17
  And if you did, then please share.