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S6:E6: Coffee Smarter: Common Mistakes New Roasters Can Avoid. · Coffee People Podcast

0:00
Hey, good morning everyone. Welcome to season 6 episode, 6
0:13
of the roast West Coast coffee podcast.
0:15
I'm Ryan Walton. This is the show where I bring
0:18
you the stories of coffee professionals entrepreneurship
0:21
and coffee education. Today we're getting coffee,
0:24
Smarter with returning coffee expert.
0:26
Ryan Sullivan, he is the director of coffee operations at
0:31
moisture, coffee company. And I recently spotted him out
0:34
in the wild at Coffee Fest, la, which is a combination of coffee
0:39
education, sessions many, geared at those looking to open their
0:42
own cafe, or Advance, their own coffee skills, as well as a
0:45
vendor Expo, which is where I spend most of my time.
0:49
Checking out some new coffee Innovations, like the Barista
0:52
robot arm and the rolling. Robot waiter to all my fellow
0:56
Baristas and servers in the world.
0:58
Trust me. You're Jobs are safe for now.
1:01
I also got a chance to hang out with the team from Hosea coffee
1:05
meet some cool new industry, friends, and even watch a
1:07
portion of the latte art championships.
1:10
Shoutout to Nicholas Tanaka of blending coffee, club for taking
1:13
first place. I'll post a few photos from
1:16
coffee fast on roast westcoast.com.
1:19
Some of which you may have already seen.
1:20
If you already follow me at roast West Coast on Instagram
1:24
after the Expo, I stopped by the Last Bookstore which is a truly
1:28
great book store in Downtown LA. Ha that has become Instagram
1:31
famous in recent years for its unique artwork, displays and
1:35
Epic book tunnel. And you're not going to believe
1:37
this, but they also have books there.
1:41
If you stop by, don't hesitate to ask for the novella, I wrote
1:44
Eli and Jane or the follow-up novel, future, Eli and future,
1:48
Jane, they won't have it, but if enough people ask, maybe they'll
1:52
carry in the future. Anyways, back to coffee today.
1:56
I ask mr. Sullivan.
1:58
What are some common mistakes that are made by new Roasters
2:00
and new roasting companies. He shares some advice and hopes
2:04
that anyone out there listening dreaming about their future,
2:07
roasting coffee or opening their own Cafe can avoid at least a
2:11
few pitfalls on their way to success.
2:14
I'm drinking a coffee today. Specifically an arrow press
2:17
brewed moisture ghost bear blend in a green mug with my own face
2:21
on it. What are you drinking?
2:24
Is it in your favorite coffee mug?
2:26
If so, I want to see it, take me in a photo while you're
2:28
listening to this coffee smarter episode of the roast West Coast
2:31
coffee podcast, featuring Brian Sullivan, director of coffee
2:36
operations at moisture, coffee company in San Diego.
2:53
Well, I appreciate you coming back on the show.
2:56
I know you're really busy mosters, really busy your whole
3:00
team. I imagine you've got an
3:01
anniversary coming up at Bankers, Hill, you've got your
3:04
overall most real and events anniversary event coming up.
3:09
What on Earth made you think that you wanted to do a podcast
3:12
for 45 minutes today? It's good to take a break.
3:16
Every once in a while to you know just chat about all things
3:20
coffee with fellow coffee people.
3:23
So it's a welcome break. Yeah, I feel honored to be
3:28
considered in that category and I have a very big question for
3:33
you today but before I ask it I'm wondering what it is.
3:37
You've been drinking lately and if anything has stood out to
3:40
you, that you want to shout out on the show.
3:43
Zazen coffee from moisture. We going back to whiskey and
3:46
bourbon. Sure, let's go coffee with
3:48
moisture to start. All right.
3:50
Cool. Yeah, we actually just so every
3:53
year we tried to bring back the coffee's that we submitted for
3:59
our 2020 micro Esther of the Year win and we just kept some
4:04
samples. Early or ours is a late last
4:10
week, early this week of the Ethiopian coffee that we
4:13
submitted and it was fires probably the best that's tasty
4:17
than the past few years. So that was great to try again,
4:21
but I think as great as that coffee was, it was probably a
4:25
little bit overshadowed by these Kenyan coffees that we we just
4:30
bought. So I'm pretty pretty stoked.
4:33
I think they're probably some of the best Getting Coffee.
4:36
He's that I've kept in recent memory for sure.
4:40
When you say you bring them back, you're essentially saying
4:43
you're bringing back coffee from the same kind of farm, same
4:47
place, same Source, but it's not like it's the same coffee
4:52
because the weather's been different.
4:53
The shipping has been different. Timing is all different is your
4:58
goal to try to match it to what you guys did in 2020.
5:01
When you won that award or is the goal to just get a great
5:04
coffee that is its own thing, but essentially a call back a
5:08
nod to, you know, that success. Yeah, I think the ladder to what
5:12
you said. It's it's great to have the
5:16
Callback. We're never expecting a coffee
5:20
to taste, like it did last year because that's just not how
5:25
agricultural products like coffee work, you know?
5:28
And even if the green was really similar, like maybe we've done
5:32
something different with our risk profiles or, you know,
5:36
anything in that realm, you know, can really have some All
5:40
of those like Chain Reaction effects.
5:41
So for us, yeah, just great coffees and I think one of those
5:49
things is like a coffee buyer. That you least look forward to
5:53
is when you find those great cooperatives or Farms or or
5:57
groups or whatever it is that you're working with to buy
6:00
coffee through that consistently year over year.
6:04
They are producing a great product.
6:06
And so like we're just like, hey, like, let's see what, you
6:09
know what 20 He too has to offer and yeah we're never able to do
6:14
that. Super fair comparison of like,
6:17
okay well the 2020 was the best we've ever had but we couldn't
6:22
compare 2020 Coffee to 2021 or 2022 because it would get faded
6:28
or aged and wouldn't wouldn't be a great comparison.
6:32
But from what I remember, these are some pretty pretty stellar.
6:37
New crop coffees. And it's an interesting thing
6:42
that most are does with some of your core coffees.
6:44
You brand of the coffee itself, like Space Ghost.
6:47
I think is the right name for the coffee.
6:49
Using your espresso space bear. Excuse me.
6:52
That's basic else was a cartoon, apologies.
6:55
So we have, we have space bear and we have ghost bear.
6:58
So so base. Pair is is an iteration of ghost
7:02
bear, which is our staple espresso.
7:04
Got it. Okay.
7:05
So but by doing that, you're branding that coffee that people
7:10
are ordering or buying through multiple batches.
7:14
And so as a customer, if it all of a sudden is change tasting,
7:18
different one. You know, when I come in, how
7:21
aware do you think customers are that that really is potentially
7:24
a different coffee. It could have been, you know,
7:26
maybe they came in in the fall and they came back in the spring
7:29
or whatever it was. Do you think that impacts how
7:32
people feel about your? Do you think your customers?
7:34
Murmurs are aware enough to understand that the coffee is a
7:38
changing product because I don't know that I understood that for
7:41
at least several years after starting to drink craft coffee.
7:46
yeah, I mean I would definitely say People can always be more
7:51
aware, you know, including myself and and neck and on our
7:55
entire team like it is hard. When you Are expecting one
8:01
product and you end up with something a little bit
8:04
different. And, you know, especially if
8:06
you're remembering even just the same coffee, right?
8:09
Like I said, this Ethiopian coffee like, okay?
8:11
Like, last year was great, you know, is this your better?
8:14
Maybe, maybe not. I think with well, it depends.
8:20
I think with certain Blends ghost bear being one of them.
8:26
It's a pretty versatile. Profile that we're aiming for.
8:32
So we do carry a couple of the components all year round.
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It's probably two or three of the only coffees that we carry
8:44
all year round. And so, we just have to buy
8:47
enough of them to last us. And generally speaking those,
8:50
those coffees do carry, very, very, very similar flavor,
8:55
profiles and attributes consistently Lee it's you know
8:59
it's those those seasonal components that like you, okay,
9:03
we're not going to have a Guatemalan coffee.
9:04
All year round. We're not going to have this
9:07
Colombian coffee. All year round.
9:08
Are this, this Ethiopian coffee. So I think what we really try to
9:12
do with with ghost bear and a couple Blends in particular is
9:15
is we're aiming for, for General roast profiles, and cut profiles
9:23
through that were able to manipulate ratios.
9:26
So, like how much of this Coffee is in the blend at this point in
9:31
the year versus a different point in the year.
9:33
And then through roast manipulation were able to pretty
9:36
closely match that I would say. It would be hard to distinguish
9:44
in like our staple Blends like ghost bear and like just our
9:47
house Blends it would be hard to distinguish one seasonal
9:53
iteration of ghost bear from another because I feel like
9:56
we're pretty pretty dialed into To making those adjustments
10:01
other coffees though we I think well at least an hour like
10:06
online descriptions and and the verbiage that we give to the
10:09
staff. Like we try to be very
10:11
forthcoming with like hey like just to start off this year's
10:15
version right? Or you know this iteration of to
10:19
just preface like okay whatever you bought in the past this is
10:24
not the same as that. So just trying to again preface
10:28
like Before you get into this coffee, take the expectations of
10:32
you. You had from, you know, if you
10:34
had it before, maybe it's similar, you know, we would
10:37
probably say that in the description or like, hey, this
10:41
is totally different. I as a coffee drinker, that it
10:46
feels to me like a good reminder to be more present while I'm
10:49
drinking my coffee and less predicating.
10:52
My experience on expectation, which is something that I do
10:55
regularly, especially at home, where I often buy the same
10:58
coffee, kind of consistently, and I feel like I know that
11:02
coffee, I did that this morning. Actually in this one of the
11:05
reasons I'm asking these questions where I had been gone.
11:08
All summer, I went and bought a bag of coffee this week.
11:11
Booted up the same way I always do and I took a sip and went oh
11:16
well. What's going on here?
11:18
This is not what I was thinking. I was getting and it wasn't bad
11:21
or anything but it definitely kind of threw me for a second.
11:24
And then I was like oh no it's been like at least three months
11:27
since I've you know, bought a bag of this coffee things have
11:30
changed. I need to remember that as a
11:32
customer what you just said about how you guys are pretty,
11:36
dialed in with the seasonal changes in this coffee, ghost
11:40
bear, Does is it harder to roast to a profile when you're
11:45
starting like that? That coffee already has an
11:47
expectation built into it because it's been around for a
11:49
while. Your customers already are
11:52
understand it or know it or regularly, get drinks with it is
11:56
that more difficult to purchase and to order to or does that
12:00
actually help by giving you a framework, a goal that you're
12:04
trying to meet instead of just trying to get to this mythical,
12:08
the best, the coffee can offer. Yeah, again I think the latter
12:13
there being that like we know certain coffees with certain
12:20
profiles work really well and we know that those coffees are
12:25
available and whatever seasons and you know type months of the
12:29
year. So we're looking for coffees
12:35
that exhibit. You know these things when we're
12:40
We're trying to Source those seasonal components of the
12:44
Blends that we're looking for. So if anything, it really
12:47
narrows it down where it's like, okay, we can just eliminate, you
12:51
know, all of these coffees. Like they don't even meet the
12:53
minimum criteria right. Whether it's actual like,
12:58
cupping score, quality or even origin characteristics.
13:03
You know, we're not putting in our staple Blends, we're not
13:06
putting, you know, weirdly you know, unique processed.
13:10
Coffee's were putting like very typical coffees that are
13:15
representative, typically representative of the country or
13:20
region that they're from. So if it's in Ethiopia,
13:22
yirgacheffe, we're looking for, like, what are your standard
13:25
Ethiopia yirgacheffe type coffees that?
13:28
Those are the ones we're looking for anything that kind of Falls
13:31
outside of that realm, whether it's like an anaerobic processor
13:34
or whatever. It might be weird.
13:36
Okay, cool. That coffee might be great on
13:38
its own, but it's not going to work for this.
13:40
This sure yeah that idea of blending is it seems like
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simultaneously like a fun creative way to work with coffee
13:50
but also also I think more challenging than someone might
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expect. If anyone is at home right now
13:56
and they have a couple of bags of random coffee.
13:58
Try throwing it together and do a India grinder and making it
14:02
and seeing if you enjoy what comes out because I would I
14:04
would venture that it takes quite a bit of practice and
14:09
repetition to To find that blend.
14:12
That is consistently good for you.
14:15
Yeah, I think even like you were saying to like, it's been a few
14:18
months since you had purchased that coffee.
14:20
But we were just doing some exercises preparing for the
14:26
golden Bean competition. That's happening this weekend
14:29
and some of our staff were pulling shots for us and we were
14:34
debating between, you know, some fresh coffees and some older
14:38
coffee's fresh roasted versus older roasted coffees that had
14:42
had time to Dee gasps. What?
14:45
For espresso and think one of our team members had grabbed a
14:50
bag and started pulling shots and it was the grind size was
14:52
just like, completely different than all of the other copies we
14:55
had been using and then I looked at the bag and I was like, oh
14:58
This coffee's, you know, two days off of roast and they were
15:01
like so and I was like, well go grab the, you know, older bag of
15:05
that same coffee and pull a shot.
15:07
They were like, wow, like, you know, 5 days can make like, you
15:11
know, this massive difference. So if you're going into Brie Of
15:15
coffee and you're like, oh, I do it like this all the time, you
15:19
know, really it's your you should be or could be making
15:23
tweaks to that coffee when it's fresh versus, you know, a week
15:27
off for two weeks or three weeks off and then those are all going
15:29
to change your the flavors that you're getting in your in your
15:33
cup. And that is exactly why I don't
15:37
make Express espressos at home. And I just can't buy them
15:40
because in I'm not thinking that intelligently in the morning,
15:44
just just making coffee. Yeah, no, I refuse to make
15:48
espresso. Yeah, I'm not doing it at home
15:51
anymore. We're trying to which All Leads
15:54
me into the topic that I asked you to think about for today,
15:57
which is new Roasters, what are some common mistakes that new
16:03
Roasters make? Make and how can they learn from
16:08
your experience from other Roasters experience?
16:11
And maybe speed up that that time, where they're regularly
16:14
making mistakes? Is that a fair question to ask?
16:17
I feel like it's pretty broad. Yeah, it is, it's fair, but it
16:20
is Broad and definitely my own personal experiences, and
16:24
opinions might not line up with someone else's, but I think,
16:28
speaking on as like from a green buying perspective, 44 near
16:34
Esters and a little bit from just like roasting philosophy.
16:38
I think a couple of the big, the big things or maybe key key
16:43
things to be aware of is, you know, don't don't try to be
16:48
bigger than you are. Meaning that like you come
16:52
across a great coffee, And you know you're thinking okay well
16:57
we're growing you know quickly we can probably go through you
17:02
know, x amount of bags which are 60 kg to 70 kilogram bags of
17:08
this coffee. You know, once this you know,
17:10
next Cafe opens or we get a couple extra customers in the
17:13
door and I've definitely been guilty of this mistake but but
17:18
yeah, over buying coffees is a really common mistake.
17:24
And especially as a new roaster or really any small business.
17:28
Like cash flows is king, So being really aware.
17:33
Because once you contract, those coffees, I mean, they are, they
17:35
are yours and they don't taste good forever.
17:40
So if you can't move through them quickly enough and you're
17:43
putting yourself in a really tough spot.
17:46
And and then you're, you know, you're trying to offload that to
17:48
your customers. And, you know, you're not
17:50
putting that best foot forward of like we're trying to show
17:52
you, you know, as you Through our doors, or you know, by our
17:56
bags online that like, you know, we serve you great coffee but
18:01
you're trying to offload, you know, older coffee that that has
18:06
faded notes and things like that.
18:08
Think that's definitely a really big thing to watch out for.
18:13
What about somebody who's kind of really getting started and
18:17
it's their first time using a larger scale roaster like larger
18:22
than sample. Roasting what are some hiccups
18:24
that they might hit in that process?
18:26
And I should preface it by saying in.
18:29
I'm not a roaster. So, I'm, this is a little bit
18:32
based on, just what I've learned from talking to other people.
18:34
But sample, roasting say in small one pound batches.
18:38
I mean, I can go on Amazon and buy a sample roaster right now,
18:41
but it seems like there's a pretty big jump from that to
18:45
even a five pound machine or or 10 pound machine.
18:48
That is more for commercial use. Yeah.
18:52
I mean I can't speak too much to like the actual roasting
18:56
philosophy. I would say that really?
19:00
I mean a couple just really important things, cop everything
19:06
that you roast and and cup it blindly because you just never
19:13
know what you're going to learn when you don't know what you're
19:17
tasting, it just puts all that bias aside.
19:21
And And enables you to more clearly see the coffee that, you
19:28
know, your customers will be getting and better able to
19:31
analyze the roast that you did of of that coffee and then much
19:38
like espresso I think, or I really any coffee brewing.
19:42
The the same applies for roasting which I would say is is
19:45
manipulate the least amount of variables possible.
19:48
So, There's always a chain reaction, especially in
19:52
roasting, so like you want to do a longer roast.
19:55
That's going to stretch out all of your different phases of
19:58
roast and and it's going to change some of those things.
20:00
But like if you want to experiment with charge
20:03
temperature, then keep as to as the best of your ability, keep
20:08
the other things, the same. So keep your, you know, rough
20:12
duration of time. The same, keep your finish
20:15
temperature the same, keep your development ratio the same so
20:18
that you can Ali, see the effect of that charge temperature or
20:23
discharge temperature or development percentages, or
20:26
anything like that. Could you define that term
20:29
charge temperature? Just for anyone who maybe
20:31
doesn't know what that means? Yeah, so it's the temperature at
20:35
which you load or drop the green coffee into The Roaster, whether
20:40
it's a drum, roaster are roaster, right?
20:42
So your preheating that just like you would Bakin a cake in
20:46
the oven for a charge. Temperatures is where that He is
20:50
and the coffee isn't necessarily preheated at set.
20:52
The temperature that it was at stored at centralized correct.
20:56
Yep. So yeah.
20:57
Preheating your oven to 400 versus for 25 verses for 35 and
21:03
you're baking a cake and that oven, it's all going to lead to
21:06
different results. That actually is this was when I
21:11
was chatting with your colleague, Nick Bill Berardi.
21:15
And he had mentioned that at The Roaster competition, they're
21:18
using these Roasters that. He hadn't necessarily worked on
21:21
before or even your own, that really, to me, spoke to the
21:26
ability to be flexible and to adapt in the moment.
21:29
Because even, I know that I have a bunch of recipes at home.
21:32
I like to bake, but the other night I have right now, is not
21:37
great. It's it came with the apartment
21:40
and it has not been replaced and many many years.
21:43
So, I know that if my recipe, says 350, I actually need to
21:48
adjust that to 365. For 375 in order to have the
21:51
same timeline or I have to adapt the timeline more and I would
21:55
imagine as Roasters, you're dealing with a lot of that, as
21:59
your machines get use and your machines adapter.
22:05
I guess, I kind of think of the Machinery as a living entity to
22:07
some extent. And maybe that's just a romantic
22:11
side of me. But, you know, I'm just
22:13
wondering if you, if you would agree with that, or if that's
22:16
maybe just me, projecting No, I mean, I think that's definitely
22:19
spot-on. You know, 350 in your oven might
22:23
be 360 or 362 or, you know, something like that in someone
22:27
else's oven, you know, and then you have to make it more
22:30
complicated. It like if you cook on a stove,
22:33
it's like you know the actual heat output of the stove, right?
22:37
High isn't just high on a burner.
22:40
It's like, what's the actual like you know, like butane you
22:44
know, like how much like literal heat is being displaced by
22:48
Bye-bye, the the stovetop so Roasters have the same thing,
22:53
every Roasters different, you know where the heat is applied,
22:57
what the drum, you know, is made out of or the thickness of the
23:00
drum versus like do you have a, you know, kind of not very deep,
23:05
but taller drum or do you have a deep drum but it's a little bit
23:09
shorter and height, you know, all of those things can could
23:12
definitely affect what you're doing.
23:14
And I think that's just repetition and it's really just
23:18
getting In touch with your equipment.
23:21
So, many variables earlier, you had had spoken a little bit
23:24
about blind tasting. I'm wondering if you could
23:26
explain to me how you would go about setting up a blind tasting
23:32
for yourself especially because I would imagine at least in the
23:36
beginning a lot of people are working alone or they're coming
23:39
on their own, right? So how would you go about
23:42
setting that up for yourself if you had several coffees to try?
23:46
Yeah, so I mean I think it really only works if you have
23:48
several coffees because if you all you roasted was Brazil
23:52
yesterday, then you know that that's all that's on the table.
23:56
So few copies definitely helps to cup with other people's
24:00
coffees whether they're similar or dissimilar to the coffee that
24:03
you are cupping. But basically so like what we do
24:09
is we take measured amounts So, for example, like we typically
24:14
cup at least two or three bowls of every coffee that we roast
24:19
and we do 12 grams of coffee per Bowl.
24:22
So we just way out, let's say, 40 grams of coffee after each
24:27
batch is roasted and then it goes into a cup with a number on
24:31
the bottom. And then if you're trying to be
24:34
blind when you're, when you go to set up your cupping,
24:38
basically you can just mix those cups up, so they're not in
24:42
numerical order. But you have the sequence that
24:45
you roasted. So if you roasted let's say 10
24:47
coffees you know 1 through 10 but there are jumbled up on the
24:51
table and you know 2589 one Etc then you cup each coffee and
24:58
then you can go back after you know you're at basically a cool
25:01
temperature and look at your notes and go.
25:05
Okay. Well you know you start to lift
25:07
up the cops and you can okay I roasted, you know, again, Brazil
25:10
first and then I roasted Colombia s and then You know
25:13
this is my fifth badge or so on and so forth, basically.
25:18
Yeah, I think like the way my brain works.
25:21
I would have a hard time mixing them up without trying to
25:23
remember where I'm at, on my own.
25:25
So yeah, if you're, if you're listening in this is something
25:28
you're doing. Maybe find a you enlist a
25:30
neighbor or friend and mix them up for you.
25:32
Yeah. That can that can definitely
25:33
help having someone else do more of like a double blind or like
25:36
you mix it up and then they mix it up further.
25:40
I'm always skeptical that someone might accidentally mix
25:44
my reference cup with my actual cups.
25:47
And then I Essentially did a cupping and I can't ever figure
25:50
out what cops went where so I'm not as not able to as easily
25:56
evaluate. You can also do things like to
25:59
get like, really intense. You could cop in different kinds
26:03
of lighting, so like like a red light for example, like you
26:08
can't see the differences in the beans quite as easily.
26:11
So like you're not as easy, you're not as easily able to
26:15
distinguish. One coffee from another, so as
26:18
you're mixing, Mop, you don't like kind of remember like,
26:20
okay, I think my Ethiopian coffee looks like this, you
26:24
know, and my coffee from Panama looks like this.
26:27
I'm not saying that I do that on a regular basis by any means.
26:30
But if you want to judge me really, really intense, then you
26:33
could you could do that as I kind of a cool idea hadn't even
26:38
thought about that, another way to kind of trick yourself into
26:42
figuring that out. A black black bowls work really
26:46
well too, so you can't see the color of the coffee.
26:49
So you can't really discern between a light roast or a dark
26:54
roast. Really interesting.
26:57
Let's get back ahead to to that point where you're a new roaster
27:00
and you're working for a company.
27:03
Obviously, you did that. You came in to most dried and
27:08
you were in coffee before. But how do how do you go about
27:12
setting up those first? Profiles.
27:15
I would imagine there's a lot of learning from the people who've
27:19
come before you in that you're going, okay?
27:21
This is what a profile looks like.
27:23
But when you're kind of first starting out with a new green
27:27
coffee, what is it that you're doing to get to that point where
27:32
you feel like you have a profile that works?
27:35
Yeah, I think you can go into a roast if you've ever put coffee
27:41
in your register before. You can go into it.
27:43
And, you know, okay, well takes about this long roughly for my
27:49
coffee to turn brown, right, to where it's drinkable, and then I
27:53
can go a little bit longer and it's dark, right?
27:55
So you kind of get your generic times and stuff figured out.
27:59
And then I think really like, I had a pretty good conversation
28:04
with with Scott. How about this?
28:08
And I think the comparison that we both agreed on and liked a
28:12
lot was like Moneyball so really your main goal is get on base.
28:18
So just start just start there like the coffee, you know, might
28:22
look a little bit, you know, weird like and just using
28:25
references like from that movie, for example, right?
28:27
Like someone throws weird. He, you know, isn't picked to be
28:31
on the team because they don't like the way he throws her or
28:33
you know it doesn't traditionally do Do this.
28:36
So we're not going to put them on the team, but you get a bunch
28:39
of bunch of people together, that consistently hit and get on
28:42
base. You all the sudden can build
28:46
yourself a team kind of around around that.
28:49
So a little bit back to, you know, eliminating as many
28:53
variables as possible. But really just like trying to
28:56
almost oversimplify charge all of your coffees at whatever.
29:01
Temperature, let's say, four hundred and fifteen degrees just
29:04
to throw out a number, you know, and then your interests, all of
29:07
your coffees for would say, roughly 10 minutes and you're
29:11
going to drop them all roughly at this time.
29:14
Aperture. And then you're going to cup
29:15
those coffees and you're going to be okay based on tasting that
29:19
like, this is too dark. It's too light.
29:21
So, whatever. And then you can kind of start
29:23
to go backwards a little bit and and make those manipulations.
29:26
But like we start like we have a very very simple Roaster at that
29:31
buster like we have a 25-pound. San Franciscan really incredibly
29:36
old we don't have any kind of like airflow adjustments or drum
29:41
speed adjustments. So like We pretty much put the
29:44
coffee in and it's hot and then it gets hotter or colder.
29:48
That's really what we got to work with.
29:51
So like you can roast great coffee with not that many tools
29:55
available, but it goes back to again really eliminating.
29:58
A lot of those components that like, you might read about in a
30:02
forum or, you know, read about in a book and like, you just
30:04
don't know enough. So make those changes and
30:08
actually know what affects those are having.
30:09
So just throw all that out the window, put the coffee in.
30:13
Let us do its thing, take it out cup, and then kind of work
30:18
backwards and make adjustments and stuff from there.
30:21
With those the that simple machinery and the limitations
30:26
that you might have compared to a newer fancier very Tech heavy
30:32
roaster for example. As the green buyer do you feel
30:36
more pressure to make sure you're getting a product that
30:39
needs less manipulation? Or do you feel pressure on you
30:45
as a person in your job role because of that?
30:47
Or is does that I don't want to say helped you cover up.
30:51
It is, if you were to buy a copy, that didn't turn out.
30:54
So great. But how does that impact?
30:57
Your job is the Greenbrier. That's probably a safer way to
30:59
say that? Yeah, I think so.
31:03
This is where like, again, I may be a little bit outside of the
31:08
typical realm of thought here, but like like I personally feel
31:12
like green buying is incredibly incredibly important.
31:17
So if we're ever like iffy on a coffee, Bye-bye it like oh it
31:24
may go this way. May go this way.
31:25
Okay cool. Just throw that out.
31:26
We don't we don't want that in a way.
31:30
It helps because I try to only by great coffees but what I what
31:38
I look at is like as great as a roaster, you know, Nick might be
31:44
your or anyone else might be on our team.
31:47
You can't take a bad product and poor form like this.
31:51
Urkel act during the roasting process and make it tastes
31:54
fantastic. All the sudden you have to start
31:57
with a great product and then you can make it a little bit
32:00
worse or you can make it a little bit better.
32:02
But you're operating in this very narrow, you know, realm
32:06
where it's like, okay, I didn't quite nail it.
32:08
But luckily, my green coffee was still fantastic.
32:11
There for my coffee, still tastes pretty good.
32:14
But I know I can do better and I think a good example of that is
32:20
the number one coffee. You from the Panama Geisha
32:24
auction, a few years ago, a lot of Roasters submitted that
32:28
coffee to Coffee your view and same coffee, right?
32:33
All from different Roasters. Most of the registers got like,
32:36
and I think in ninety-seven point score on that coffee and
32:39
that I think dragonfly scored a 98 and if you read the review
32:42
from coffee rear there like we've cut this coffee from you
32:45
know all these other Roasters. But something about like this
32:49
roast just was that little Little extra bit better and
32:53
they're thinking at the time, I don't know if they still are but
32:56
they were the only ones to ever get a 98 on coffee review.
32:59
So I don't want to cast dispersions or doubt but you
33:05
know maybe the reviewer had a really good donut that morning.
33:07
It had absolutely. That could totally be it.
33:09
Yeah, let's talk about something much more important today than
33:13
coffee. Which is what's the best whiskey
33:16
you've had since the last time I spoke to you earlier this year.
33:23
And I should tell you that while I was traveling.
33:26
I brought back. One bottle of whiskey for every
33:29
week that I was gone. Okay?
33:31
And not all of them made it back.
33:33
Okay, I'm trying new Whiskey's too.
33:36
Often I don't know if you can see over here this is some of my
33:40
boy of my whiskey. Some of your some of your
33:44
whiskey. I like that's actually
33:45
unfortunately or maybe fortunately for me very small
33:50
amount of It but I just really love.
33:53
I think. I mentioned this last time I got
33:54
a really love wild turkey products.
33:58
So Russell's Reserve 13 is wild turkey product.
34:04
The second batch of it. Just came out and last year's
34:08
batch was was great and was able to get a bottle of the second
34:13
batch. So that's probably probably the
34:16
new one for me. Would you call yourself a
34:20
collector? Water, or are you drinking all
34:23
these coffees are these whiskeys?
34:27
Yeah yes and no definitely collects.
34:33
Yeah they sit they say that you should be a little bit liquid in
34:36
your assets and my assets just happened to be liquid.
34:45
But no I mean I think I personally like I don't buy
34:48
anything that like I wouldn't drink because I a lot of a lot
34:53
of bourbon. Collectors are really any
34:56
collectors? Dubai things that like they
34:59
can't ever or wouldn't ever, you know, enjoy.
35:02
I think. Like my thing is like look if
35:04
everything you know, went really poorly and the bourbon Market
35:08
crashed and no one liked bourbon anymore.
35:12
Except for me like I would drink every bottle that I have and I
35:14
would I would really enjoy it and then if one day you know, I
35:19
look up the value of a bottle and it's worth more than it is
35:23
worth for me to drink then then great.
35:26
But I Counting on that. Sure, my only warning would be
35:31
that in the early to mid-1990s. I was a big Baseball Card
35:36
Collector and that was my retirement plan as a, as a teen
35:42
young young, man, and it has not worked out quite the way.
35:46
I anticipated. You got to wait for those the
35:49
swings, right? Like Pokemon cards had a big
35:51
swing and he probably retire off of a select few.
35:57
Come on cards if you happen to have them.
35:59
I'm sure there's always a select few.
36:02
Unfortunately for me I can't drink the baseball cards that I
36:05
still have. Yeah, indefinitely and you can
36:08
Ryan. I greatly just appreciate your
36:12
time. I know you have a pretty busy
36:16
fall schedule coming up at most R, has or anything that I missed
36:19
today, where I should have asked about what's going on at most
36:22
other you wanted to share. Yeah, I mean, most Julian's a
36:26
really big party that we throw I think kind of just like an
36:30
homage to everything we do as a company.
36:34
So it's a lot of beer from, you know, collaborations that we've
36:38
done that Year, great coffee a little bit of entertainment.
36:44
Also, just, you know, just a big group of people and just get in
36:47
the hangout and, and meet or see, you know, new friends old
36:51
friends. That's really, really the big,
36:54
the big We have coming up other than new coffees, which I
36:57
alluded to earlier. So yeah, we're just we're just
37:01
plugging away, maybe a regional competition to see if we can get
37:05
into the national round again for 2023.
37:08
But yeah, TBD. We'll keep an eye out for those
37:13
Canyons. Do you have to make appointments
37:15
to talk to Nick now that he's back from the World
37:17
Championships or that's kind of annoying actually.
37:20
Yeah, it's like a secretary and, you know, they got a vet you.
37:24
Yeah, well, I appreciate you being here.
37:29
Thank you for coming back this season and I'm looking forward
37:32
to most real and I'm planning on being there and for anyone
37:35
listening. Make sure we link to that.
37:37
Thanks Ryan. Thank you.
37:46
Okay, to recap, I'm going to say this first so I don't forget
37:51
most real and most your coffees 8th Annual anniversary.
37:54
Bonanza is coming up in October tickets.
37:57
Go on sale. September 10th on most your
37:58
coffee.com which is just a few days away the best way to make
38:03
sure, you know, exactly. When they drop because tickets
38:05
are limited is to either subscribe to one of their coffee
38:08
subscription programs and most your coffee.com or Follow them
38:12
on Instagram and Facebook at most or coffee.
38:15
Most drill and is not your average Cafe anniversary.
38:19
It is an epic event early on. In this episode, we talked about
38:23
roasting a blend to reach a specific consistent flavor
38:26
profile. I continually have to remind
38:28
myself that when I buy a cup or a bag of coffee that, I think, I
38:31
know that coffee isn't really the same just because the name
38:36
on the bag hasn't changed. The way it tastes will change
38:40
based on the batch the weather during the growing process.
38:43
How it was stored and then how it got brewed coffee is ever
38:47
ever evolving. And it takes a lot of skill to
38:50
create a blend that meets the criteria of consistency season.
38:54
After season Roasters that are shooting for a Target flavor.
38:58
Profile can help minimize the changes in their search for
39:01
consistency by accounting for the flavor of the green coffee
39:04
beans. And by adjusting controllable
39:07
roast variables, Things like time and temperature.
39:11
Some of Ryan's lessons for new Roasters include.
39:14
Don't try to be bigger than you are.
39:16
Avoid over buying green coffee cup.
39:18
Everything that you roast and cup, it blindly, if you can be
39:23
flexible in order to adapt to variables in the coffee, that
39:26
you may not expect and finally focus on quality, when buying
39:30
green coffee beans, because you can't take a bad base product
39:34
and make it fantastic. You can only make it a little
39:37
bit better or a lot worse. We did stumble across one, new
39:42
coffee, vocabulary term today, charged temperature.
39:45
It is the temperature at which you drop green beans Into The
39:48
Roaster drum. It's kind of like pre-baking
39:51
your oven. Most, your coffee has three
39:53
locations around San Diego, and I'm going to link to those maps
39:56
on roast westcoast.com. And don't forget to keep an eye
40:00
on most your coffee.com for those Kenya coffee releases.
40:02
Ryan, mentioned, I checked this morning and they weren't quite
40:05
out yet. A big thank you to mr.
40:08
Sullivan for spending time, getting me coffee smarter, and a
40:11
moisture coffee for being one of the original industry partners
40:14
of this podcast. They did not hesitate when I
40:17
asked that. They'd want to team up to help
40:19
grow the craft coffee community. And they are also growing.
40:22
They're hiring Baristas for all of their locations, you can send
40:26
resumes to careers at most R coffee.com.
40:30
This shows, other industry Partners also include Cafe
40:32
litter, who's operator, Alden has Zuri, is my next coffee
40:36
smarter expert? Bert.
40:37
And of course, steady-state coffee, roasting coffee cycle,
40:40
roasting ignite Coffee Company. First light whiskey, Maria
40:44
coffee assigned, Coffee Roasters, Cape Horn coffee,
40:47
importers and Camp, Coffee Company.
40:50
Shout out to Joe bettinger of Maria coffee.
40:53
Thanks for joining me for a beer.
40:54
This week, I am very stoked that Maria is on the precipice of
40:57
some big new things, things that I hope I get to break on a
41:00
future episode of this podcast. If you are listening to this
41:04
show and you want more coffee, content, header row, To
41:07
westcoast.com sign up for the free or the paid newsletters and
41:11
be awesome. Thank you all for listening and
41:14
for supporting this show, this episode of the roast West Coast
41:17
coffee podcast is was has been written produced and recorded by
41:21
me Ryan Walt. I hope this episode is found you
41:25
happy healthy and with at least enough sanity to make it through
41:28
another day, always tip your Baristas and be sure to drink a
41:33
coffee. For those of you who heard about
42:04
the job at moisture and thought, Oh yeah, I'm interested in that.
42:07
Most, your coffee is a woman, minority veteran and immigrant
42:10
owned micro coffee roaster based in San Diego, California, they
42:15
believe a quality cup of coffee brings people together and that,
42:18
excellent. Served with a smile.
42:20
Will inspire goodness in your day.
42:22
They eagerly embraced sustainability and cherish their
42:25
responsibility to create opportunities, which improve
42:29
lives and families across the globe.
42:31
They're driven by innovation. Action by pushing the boundaries
42:34
of what's possible in coffee beer and creativity because the
42:38
best performances offer the best of Life.
42:41
They currently have part-time Barista positions, open at all
42:44
locations, Barista or specialty coffee experience is preferred
42:48
and lead or supervisory experience is a.
42:50
Plus, if you are interested, please send your resume to
42:53
careers at most her coffee.com today.