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“Learning to Give Myself Grace”with Yolanda Fraction · The Person behind the Position

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the person behind the position, the podcast that
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: looks beyond what people do to discover who they are.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Michael Chisholm. Welcome to the person behind
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: the position. I'm Michael Chisholm. And my guest started out
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: as a classroom teacher.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: And that's where she learned the skill that still defines
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: how she shows up today. Taking something complicated and making
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: it click for whoever's in front of her. She's been
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: nearly 20 years since then in conversations about work, the
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: honest kind, not the polished, talking points kind. She'd rather
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: tell you what leadership actually feels like on a hard
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: day than what it's supposed to look like on a slide.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Please welcome Yolanda Fraction.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Michael. What a beautiful introduction.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: So today, I want to move beyond what Yolanda knows
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: about workplaces and meet the person who who learned to
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: see them the way she does. So you started as
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: a classroom teacher. Who was Yolanda when you first walked
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: into that classroom?
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Oh my God, terrified.
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  Speaker 4: My very first classroom, I'll never forget. It was, I mean,
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: I guess I had probably the max of what I
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: could have in that classroom, maybe about 25 students. And
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: I was teaching third grade. And I didn't know what
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: to expect.
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  Speaker 3: It was my first year.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: I was literally recruited while in the midst of my
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: last year in college from this school district.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: And they were doing.
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: On-campus interviews and recruitment. And I got recruited. And I
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: just thought, gosh, great opportunity. I don't have to go
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: interview all summer. And I could just transition very quickly
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: into my career.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: I was just terrified. I didn't know what to expect.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: You know, I was terrified, but.
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: I was very curious and I was very open to
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: trying to do my best. So that's who I've always been.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: And I think that's who I still am. And I
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: still try to insert myself into these rooms with that
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: still childlike eye of curiosity. Okay.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: So what did teaching.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: reveal about you that you didn't know before you became
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: responsible for other people's learning?
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: Well, the biggest thing I didn't realize about teaching and
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: the responsibility for other people's learning is just how, well, now,
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: you know, I've gone back to college. My first degree
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: was in elementary education. My second one was a graduate
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: degree in adult organizational learning. And now I'm working on
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: a PhD in organizational psychology. But what's really wild is
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: what I tell people is the difference between andragogy and pedagogy.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: So when you're teaching children to teaching adults. And I
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: thought there would be this huge, major difference and leap
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: between the two. And honestly, it just so happens to
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: be that I think as adults, the fascinating thing for
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: me now looking back at that is sometimes we prevent
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: ourselves from our own development.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: We're fearful.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: You know, we don't do the thing. We may not
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  Speaker 4: risk take as much.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: We may not ask the questions. We may not knock
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: on the doors because maybe.
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: We've had failures. Maybe we've been like, I'm not doing
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  Speaker 4: that again, right? Whereas with children, when you're working on
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: developing them, when you're nurturing and fostering their growth and
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: who they are as little people, you know, the world's
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: their oyster, right? And I think for me, as someone
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: who's gone on even past the learning and development space
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: and into organization development and organizational psychology, I want to
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: cultivate environments where people can ask the hard questions. To
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: your point earlier, Michael, about, you know, why you do
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: this podcast and having honest questions and honest answers back, right?
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: And I think that's where For me as a classroom teacher,
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  Speaker 4: I could ask the questions. Those wild, crazy questions. You know,
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: teachers always say, no question's a bad question.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: Ask the question. I've always believed that.
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  Speaker 4: And I believe we should create spaces where every employee,
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: no matter who they are or where they sit, can
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: ask the hard questions and then get the hard answers,
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: even if there aren't answers they're going to love.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: So teachers have to notice what people aren't always saying
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: out loud.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Yes. So did the classroom teach you how to read
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  Speaker 2: a room?
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  Speaker 3: Oh, yes.
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  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: And how and has that followed you into the workplace?
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: The hardest thing to date of my 20-year career is
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  Speaker 4: sometimes I do not have time. And probably every HR professional,
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: especially any professional really, can relate to time is money,
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: time is valuable, time can be limited. And sometimes when
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: I'm sitting with a client, whether in a workplace environment
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: that I've been in the past or continue to be in,
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: because I do all kinds of work with associations and volunteering,
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: is sometimes I have to shorten what I know, right?
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  Speaker 4: All that theory and models and all the practices into
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: 10 to 15 minutes. And I have to translate what
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  Speaker 4: I know and I have to show credibility and So
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  Speaker 4: I have to.
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  Speaker 3: Read that room.
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  Speaker 4: And, you know, some rooms, you know, for example, with credibility,
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  Speaker 4: some people don't know anything about my discipline. You know,
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  Speaker 4: they don't know what organizational psychology or organization development is.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: And I could lose them going down that rabbit hole.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: So I think for me as a classroom teacher. Being
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: able to quickly go in and say, all right, this
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: is what's needed here. This is what's not needed. There
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: were some days where, oh my gosh, what happened to me, Michael?
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  Speaker 4: My kids, I'll never forget. They would like press on
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: my buttons when they knew I was stressed or upset.
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  Speaker 3: I'll never forget it. My third graders. And it's like,
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: how did you know? And I would never say it.
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  Speaker 4: And so I learned to, I don't want to say mask,
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: but I learned to kind of cover at times to
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: protect my own self. And I think sometimes in HR,
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: you know, it's this sentiment when you're doing, for example, research,
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  Speaker 4: you know, and you need to be neutral, you know,
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: or you're doing data collection and you're doing a study.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: You got to come across as neutral. And I think
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: the students helped me to see and looking back, I
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: think this is a fabulous question because I haven't looked
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: back and thought about this, is that children want your best.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: That third grader does not care that you had a
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: horrible experience.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: Day or morning in traffic that you spent, you know,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: an extra hour on the beltway getting to work and
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: coffee spilled all over your lap and this and that
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  Speaker 4: and the third.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 4: So I think for me, I learned I have to
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: be my best self. How can I make sure I
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: show up as my best self so I can give
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: to these students? And sometimes that's compartmentalizing.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: Sure.
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  Speaker 4: But I need to make sure I'm present in there
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  Speaker 4: with him and I'm supporting them.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: OK, so how do you. How do you mask and
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: still show up?
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: Hmm. And that is, I think for any HR professional,
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's necessarily masking, but I do think
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: there's this slight element of detachment only because your problems
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: are not their problems and their problems are not yours.
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  Speaker 3: And I think I've learned the hard way.
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: If you let every single problem that comes across your desk,
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: you know, in your whatever length of career, you will
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: never get anything done.
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  Speaker 3: You will be burnt out. You'll be spent. You'll be drained.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: You'll be exhausted. And you'll be like, okay, where's the door, right?
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  Speaker 4: And so I have learned probably the hard way because
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: things used to keep me up at night, you know,
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  Speaker 4: just tossing and turning my sleep.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: And I've learned this fear of influence, right?
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  Speaker 4: That Stephen Covey is what can I control and what
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  Speaker 4: can I influence? And so my job, a lot of
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  Speaker 4: people's jobs as HR professionals, you know, your job is
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  Speaker 4: to influence the business, right? You know, if you're, if
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: you're influencing the business, that means you make suggestions. You
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  Speaker 4: become a thought partner and advisor, but by no means
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: do you invest or take on more ownership of something
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  Speaker 4: than they do.
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  Speaker 1: So, um, so how do you still, um, in the
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: showing up, um, What do you learn about yourself kind
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  Speaker 1: of still in the showing up?
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  Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good one.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Empathy. You know, I think going back to our earlier
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: conversation about the masking part, there's this, you know, quote that,
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  Speaker 4: I don't know, it's around like backpacks and everyone's carrying.
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure if you've seen it on LinkedIn or otherwise,
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  Speaker 4: but they talk about how everyone's carrying an invisible backpack. And,
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  Speaker 4: you know, for me, over the course of my life,
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: professionally and personally, I've always thought about that juggle, that balance.
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  Speaker 3: Between how much.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: We tell people and we offload on people and how
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  Speaker 4: much we let people into our lives.
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  Speaker 3: And I think for me, I.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: Sit in the place of being an authentic leader.
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  Speaker 3: People know quite a bit about me.
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  Speaker 4: You know, there's something in organizational psychology and psychology called
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: the big five traits.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm high on openness. And I see you nodding
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  Speaker 3: your head. You know about that one. I'm high on openness.
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  Speaker 4: So I'll let you know. I'll wear my heart on
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  Speaker 4: my sleeve, Michael. I'll let you know about a lot.
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  Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, I think there's
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  Speaker 4: that balance that you have to, that goes back to
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  Speaker 4: classroom teaching.
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  Speaker 3: How much do you let your students know?
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  Speaker 4: They knew, you know, my students always knew about my
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: hobbies and my family.
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  Speaker 3: I'd show them pictures. But, you know, you just have
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  Speaker 3: to really, I think that's discernment. You have to over
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: time learn more. what to share and not what to share.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: And every relationship is different.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: You know, you have to decide in consulting, especially there
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: are different levels to relationships. There's, you know, a lot
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: of work by Edgar Schein and he talks about the
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: various levels of consulting. And so I think that's another
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: thing that's important.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: So you say you're comfortable moving beyond college talking points.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
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  Speaker 1: Has being the person willing to say what others may
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: not want to hear ever cost you something?
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes. Yes.
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  Speaker 4: Depending on the organizational culture, people will not like you.
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  Speaker 4: You could be pushed out. You could be seen as
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: a threat. People could see you and be intimidated by you.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: Will they ever say that?
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: No. But that changes the nature of the game for you.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: I think as someone who is a Black woman, sometimes
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: the only Black woman in spaces, I am constantly trying
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: to be really.
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  Speaker 3: Thoughtful about how I'm showing up.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: And, you know, to the point of honesty, I think
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: that for me, I grew up as a first generation
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: college student. I was very, you know, my family was
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: on government assistance. And that shows how I enter spaces
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: because I'm always reminding myself, wow, I've come really far.
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  Speaker 4: I don't want to mess this up. So sometimes it'll
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: keep me from saying some things. It'll keep me, you know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: bite my lip a little bit or tongue a little
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: bit more because I know there's a risk there. There's,
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm not just speaking for myself. I'm speaking
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: for my family or who I represent. And I think
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: that's the hard part for me. is you know as
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: an executive leader you know somebody's 20 years into their
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: career um i want to be authentic i want to
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: be relatable.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: And personal personable but.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: I also recognize that you know for me i do
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: when i show up in spaces someone will look at
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: my badge at a conference michael i'm telling you they'll
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: be like oh you work for so-and-so or you do
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: so-and-so your members so-and-so And I won't even be thinking
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: about it. Michael, I'll be sipping my wine and, you know,
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: having my little happy hour time at the conference. And
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: so it'll remind me, okay, all right, Yolanda.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: So you have to find those spaces where you can
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: be a little more yourself, maybe with your friends, behind
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: closed doors and confidential executive spaces, things of that nature, where,
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: you know, where there is a certain container to that,
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: to that, how you're showing up.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: So when you spend years helping leaders and teams kind
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: of see themselves more clearly, who helps Yolanda see herself clearly?
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Oh, good question, Michael. Um, over the years I've, I've
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: hired executive coaches. Um, I have invested in therapy and
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: that's my honest, I think that's the first time I've
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: said that on the podcast. That's super honest. Um, I
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: make those investments. I make those deposits. And look here, Michael,
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: I know what Hogan calls my dark side. Those things
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: I will not say on a podcast, right?
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: I keep to myself.
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: I have a little journal beside my nightstand, and it's
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: my development areas.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: It's things I would never.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: Want anyone to know, not even my husband, things that
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: I'm working on.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: And I think if we're going to get to.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: The place where we're making other people better, we're influencing
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: other people and the world at large, we have to
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: be willing to face those things about ourselves that are
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: not quite where they need to be. And I'm consistently
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: reminding myself, you are still growing. You have much more
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: to learn. So I think keeping yourself honest, keeping yourself
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: humble always, that's so important. Okay.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: So is there something about yourself that took you longer
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to recognize than it takes you to recognize it.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: In other people?
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Is there something that took me longer than it would
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: have taken other people to recognize?
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Can you repeat the question?
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. Is there something about yourself.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: That took you longer to recognize than it takes you
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: to recognize it in other people.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Grace?
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: I am horrible for giving myself very little grace.
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: And so going back to that first gen thing, it
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: is this feeling for me, and I can't speak for everyone,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: but I cannot mess up.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I must be excellent.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: I must be perfect. I must always show up on time,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: come through for people, not miss a meeting, not miss someone's,
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: I don't know, retirement party.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, you name it, crazy stuff.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: I saw someone's retirement party posted and they were retiring
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: and I'm just like, it was on the weekend. And
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: I'm like, gosh, I should be there for them. So
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: when I don't have the ability to do the things
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: I want to do, and I think realizing your own capacity,
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: I can realize that in other people all.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: Day and all night.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: You know, you give me somebody's, you know, workflow sheet
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: and remap their processes and look at what we call
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: job demands, resources and organizational psychology where we are just
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: sitting down and we're reviewing workload and resources and things
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: like that.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: I can do that.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: But I think when it comes to me saying, oh, no,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: I can't do that. You know, like I'm at capacity,
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: my resource. So when it comes to that, I mean,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: I do because I love learning.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: I love connecting.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: I love all these different things about my work. I
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: do find I'm like I was telling my husband last night,
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: I need some regular hobbies, you know, not like work
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: hobbies where you're just talking about work on podcasts or
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: writing about work, you know. I need to go back
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: to birding and I need to go back to just
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: sitting by the water and journaling, not about, because usually
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: I'll journal about work and I'll write about that on
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: Substack and whatever. But I need to get back to
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: just doing the hobby for the sake of the hobby.
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: So giving myself grace is a big one. And I
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: can do that for others. I'm telling you, I have
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: lots of stories on that. But yeah, it's hard sometimes
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: to do that for myself.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Where do you think it started? Where you couldn't give
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: yourself grace?
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: I come from a family that, well, I lived in
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: a small town. And it was, I don't know if
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: you're familiar with small towns, but the news just travels.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: It just, you know, is one thing.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: And my father, I grew up with a father who
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: was in the ministry. And there were certain expectations of me.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: And I had to live up consistently.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: To those expectations. And I genuinely don't even think.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: To this day, you know, otherwise than the people who
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: listen to this podcast. I mean, nobody might know between you, myself,
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: and whoever's listening. But, you know, in a small town,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: you know, people see you at the grocery store.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: People see you at the movies.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: Even when I had my little boyfriend in high school,
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I'm thinking, oh, God, I got to live up to
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: the right expectations and make sure. So I think you
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: just kind of, and this was for me most of
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: my childhood. And so I think that becomes a part
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: of your identity is always being a little harder on yourself. Um,
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: and it's kind of ingrained in me. And so I've
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: had to unlearn through executive coaching and therapy, some behaviors, um,
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: you know, and, and then it also, I think it
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: comes from years of being in management consulting and environments
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: that were very fast paced.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: You had to be a high.
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: Performer and one little mistake. I'll never remember, uh, forget
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: one job I was at. Someone said to me, uh,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: This little thing that you did, it made a big difference.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: And I was like, what? This little tiny thing?
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: And I think it was like editing one PowerPoint slide
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: or something. And they noticed it and they called it out.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: And I was like, wow, I didn't realize this would
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: really make that big of a difference when the client
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: saw the PowerPoint. They're like, yes, clients would notice that.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: So that little tap on the wrist, that little do, do, do,
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: you know, it kind of wakes you up when you
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: realize that. the little mistakes that you make matter, they
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: have consequence.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: So what do you do when.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Not giving yourself grace still shows up today?
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: It does still show up. You know, I'm not a
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: perfect person.
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: You know, there was this, I'll give you an example recently.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: I've been trying to do more speaking engagements and, you know,
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: you put your heart in these conferences or writing these proposals.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: And I recently had gotten this series of just rejections.
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, just one after another. And, you know, I
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: got other things going on in my life. A lot
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: of these things I do outside of work and the
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: nights and weekends. And it just, I really was just
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: sitting with this, Michael, and it was just so hard
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: on me.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: But I made this LinkedIn post and.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: It literally got like 65 little likes and stuff. And
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: I said, you know, it kind of sucks being rejected.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: And I was just, and I wasn't venting. I was
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: sharing my story, kind of like what we're doing today.
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: And I was amazed at the community and how the
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: community would rally and circle and support me, but not
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: only support me, but say, this is normal. We all
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: experience it. So my answer to you is I'm trying
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: to normalize and be in community so that I am
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: not feeling like I am alone in this, that other
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: people experience rejection. Other people have to give themselves grace
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: for the little things and the errors themselves. After I
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: was done with that proposal, I sent it to a
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: friend of mine who happened to be in a space
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: where she's able to review a proposal and give me
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: feedback and said, and she said, okay, Yolanda, I think
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: you could have done differently here and here. And I
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: took those corrections and that advice, you know. So I
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: think it all comes down to really, you know, sitting
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: with your community, being a part of associations, organizations, whoever
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: it is, finding your people is going to be really
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: important to encourage you on that journey.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: So teacher, podcast host, researcher, workplace storyteller, when you strip
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: away those different ways you've done the work, what has
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: remained consistent about you?
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: My heart for people. Going back to the classroom.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: Unfortunately, in my life at this point, I have not
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: been able to have children of my own. which is
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: kind of wild because when I was a classroom teacher,
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: those children were mine. So going back to kind of
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: full circle, you know, this person behind kind of who
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: the position is, I always imagined that I'd have my
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: own children by now. But when I look at these
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: environments that I've been in where I've been able to be,
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: for example, part of United Way of Central Maryland, they
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: have like an early career group where they call it
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: Emerging Leaders United. And I was able to serve in
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: the community and help prepare boxes of food during the holidays.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: You know, just all the little things where I'm around
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: children and families and communities. I feel like service is
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: the heart of who I am. And my parents are
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: so for that because of their their work in a
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: faith based environment and me serving in that environment.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: That's who I am.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: And so it's so, so important today. And what I do,
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: it's very, very different from.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: Where I started.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: But I continue to serve. It's a servant leadership mindset
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: of whether I serve children in a classroom, I'm supporting
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: and nurturing them, their growth, or whether I'm stewarding people
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: from where I sit in organizations, in the environment I'm in, stewardship, right?
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: So I think finding themes for yourself, and I appreciate
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: you having me on this show today, because I think
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: that's such a thread, no matter the role is so different, very,
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: very different. I'm You know, I actually have time to
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: go grab a coffee, go to the restroom now.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: And so, you know, it's just brilliant at how when
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: people look at teachers, teachers are some of, I mean,
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: just the most amazing superheroes. And I think for me,
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: the superhero was, it's not me that makes me a superhero.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: It's the fact that I have these impressionable human beings
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: in front of me. And we have to see people
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: that way. We have to see people as, these are humans.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: These are vessels that we can we can help support
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: and nurture.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm going to take away the classroom, the
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: workplace expertise, the research, the podcast microphone, and the nearly
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: 20 years of experience. No role and no expertise telling
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: us who you are.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Who are you behind the position?
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: Hmm. I am a.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: Human who loves people and planet. I am someone who
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: believes that work can be better and our society can
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: be better too.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you for allowing us to meet the person behind
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: the position.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. You're welcome. And we spend a.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Lot of time learning how to read the room, the team,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: and the workplace. Sometimes the harder work is learning how
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: to read ourselves. I'm Michael Chisholm, and this is the
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: person behind the position.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed this episode, share it with your friends.