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Hook w/ Stevie Martin · Everyone's A Critic

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to everyone the critics.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: The show where a guest picks a movie rated below 40% on Rotten Tomatoes and tells us why critics got it wrong.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Yanis Co., a formerly pretentious film school student.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Ten years later sees the error of his ways.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: My guest today is writer, comedian, and podcaster, Stevie Martin.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: How are you today?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really good.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I um I uh yeah, I I watched Hook like a week ago, so I'm really terrified that I'm not gonna remember anything because I've a really bad memory.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I I have I've been walking around saying um life's the next great adventure, which then I found out wasn't the exact quote, but that's I was I was about to say when does that come up?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't remember it.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: But he says at the final line, and he says something like life, that's the next big fun time.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been saying a lot very Maybe I wrote it down.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Let me have a look.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Probably did.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that you've made Oh, I've got it.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Was it?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to know it now?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: To live would be an awfully big adventure.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's like that's like the proper Peter Pound quote, isn't it, from JM Barry.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I don't know.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna keep saying life's the next big adventure.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's I'll that's more fun.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, so you you picked um Hook.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you were like very excited to do it as well.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was Usually people are like, yeah, I'll do this.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do this one or the this one.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: You you you really wanted to do Hook.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's because I don't think there's many.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: There was there's only as many like really critically panned films that I like.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Normally I'm like, yes, about right.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And but then when you're young, you do make poor choices.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I re-watched Casper the Friendly Ghost recently.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's a terrible film, and I was so disappointed by how nonsensical it is.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's really it's mad.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and I we were like, I was so excited, it's got a really lovely themed um soundtrack, and the soundtrack made me cry because I just remembered being I was so desperate to be to have to be Christina Richie, Ricky, and to have a ghost and have a big mansion.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you live in that mansion, and I'd be like, yes, on the hill with the ghost.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um Yeah, I remember that coming out.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I remember seeing it when it came out.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I've seen it since.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Fair point.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the way to do it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: I watched it every week as a child, and I alternated that and hooked.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so then when I I watched Hook a lot as a child, yeah.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I watched it so much, and I I I just ah, it was just exhilarating.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it was and it was so nice because I I was going through the list of the like films.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah, okay, yeah, that's quite bad.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then fine, like it's so nice when something just jumps at you immediately.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because, oh no, I love that film, how dare that film be on this list?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, yes, I should pick that film.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: What did you so what's your like history with it?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: So did you see it when it first came out, or did you see it like later on?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, so I like I saw I taped it off the TV.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as with all films.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's what it was like in those days.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it was like in those days.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we had like a little book with all of we had like little stickers of numbers on all the cassettes, and then we had a little book with all the numbers, and then there'd be a lot of um lot of very high tension in the house because I would forget to say that I'd taped over something or whatever, and then it's my dad's phrase, put it in the book!
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um you had a proper book, like we I just wrote things on, and then like people would scratch it out and then write something over it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know we had we had a book um that with all the number the numbers on pages and then corresponding to the the the pictures.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: That was my dad's influence, he's very organized as a person.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, me and my mum and my sister, well my sister was about three, so she wasn't really expected to keep up with the book.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: But at 10, you know, I was it was now time to stop fannying around.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, Hook was on it, and it also meant as well, which is what's so great about those um old VHSs that you take off the TV, was that you had the advert breaks, which were annoying, but then when you get older and you look back, you see like insane adverts from like the 90s that it's the literally some of the uh oil of ole for women adverts are just being like, Are you old?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to not?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of the experience for me.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ever go back or like watch those adverts on YouTube or when you think they're so funny?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's like some people do collections of them now, and like it's so funny.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing that we were like that now was like, Hank, what's going on?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone was like, Yes, I accept that.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was so on the nose, everything was so on the nose and so unsubt.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it is sort of to an extent, but and everyone looks the same in adverse, every single person is like uh a thin, attractive white person, all of them, and they're all buying things and being like, I like this, and then look at that.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: My favourite from back in those days was the uh the Diet Coke ones with the uh with like the shirtless man that everyone would just like lust over.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember as a child being like making that connection of when you got a Diet Coke being like, oh like the Diet Coke man, but not really understand like because I just didn't understand what you why the women were looking at like, well, there's a topless man, but I'm six.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I fell enough to when I drank the Coke being like, I'm drinking it like the shirtless, topless, sexy man.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Disturbing.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: This this movie is not disturbing, I don't think.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, there is one scene that disturbed me slightly, but we'll we'll get to it.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think I might know what you're talking about, but we'll get to it, we'll get to it when it comes along.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, mention it when it comes along.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but this the the funny thing about this movie, uh at least the ratings uh on it, it's 29% from the critics, which is very low, and then it's 76% from the audience, from like just people.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that's why I don't believe in these.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: I do I do well I've never seen such a difference.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it's so it's because it's like a cult classic.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: With those things, it feels like people sort of explain it away by saying, Oh yeah, well, it's just it's got like a cult following, hasn't it?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it can't all be uh people like 35-year-olds ironically saying that that's Yeah, exactly.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And also it the thing is, and I feel like this really strongly, is often films that are targeted at children, if they're not perfect, will get much lower critical ratings.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: But then because it's not for them, like it's not for some like 50-year-old man who like his favourite film is Michael, that film about the paedophile.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like Jeremy, like it's not that's not for like he only watches Russian films.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Michael, the film about a paedophile.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hang on, I need to bring that back.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: What what are you talking about?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, there's this film, I think it's German, but it might not be, it could be Austrian, it could be any, it's like a um foreign language film called Michael.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I it just came to my head because um that was a film that when it came out, uh like everyone was just like, Michael's so good.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, great, watched it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was horrifying, but it was a very like it was a very that was the film to say that uh you see Michael.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, well, no, it's not on any of the cinemas, so I no, I haven't.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it was a cool film to like.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: I thought you were talking about that John Travolta film about an angel.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or he's an angel, yeah.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's why I was like, why why did you call him a paedophile?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, yeah, I get confused, just interchangeable.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, very difficult.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, I loved that film as well.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh no, only because I like that because it was like I only seen Greece, and then it was like, but what?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: John Travolta also is a a beer swelling uh gross angel.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yes, the idea being that you yeah, the hook is not for film critics because you're just not gonna enjoy it.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's of obviously no, it was it's for people like me, you're pen, and you've not read Big Peter Pan, or if you have maybe, and you love Robin Williams because he was the genie in Latin, and that's where you're br that's the only energy you're bringing to this film, other than like the plot.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I think it stood up way more than Casper.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've I I've only got that too.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh the plot is mad, but at least it makes sense, and also look, it's a rollicking good time.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Great opener.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's um yeah, it so it came out in ninety I wanna what year did it come out?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: 91, I think.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't have the it seemed giving me the streaming release date, so that's not helpful at all.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I thought it came out in early nine.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was trying to work out how old I was when it came out, so I would have been like two or something.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: So like I didn't see it in no, but I but but I was what what I was thinking was like I've always known it as well.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember a time where I didn't know it, and so I d I can't place when I exactly saw it, but I know that I definitely saw it at a very young age.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And like I so Robin Williams was my childhood as well, like ever he was in so many things.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: So like this, Mrs.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Doubtfire, Aladdin, um Toys, just I just remember.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Also, sorry, but I know this has probably been brought up in this podcast.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Flubber, like Flubber! Like, yeah, it is that doesn't sound up, but like I l I saw that in the cinema and I absolutely loved it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: When he did that, his hands went really far back because he didn't do that.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, absolutely.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Red rag to a ball, loved it.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't got that on the list.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now I need to look up what his rate is.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, bad.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it got yeah, I think it I think it that and like that was his like that was his uh phase before he um realised he could do like horrible creepy man, like an insomnia one hour 24%.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, bad, isn't it?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I loved it.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Robin Williams just sparkly kid-like, childlike energy, which yeah, as a kid, you were like, Oh, I'd love to hang out with a man.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've read his autobiography, and he wasn't like that, but uh oh he was a bit, but he had all those things going on, but like yeah, cocaine.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um but very much you kind of like I related to he felt like a big kid, and so I wanted to like play with him, yeah, like hang out with him and stuff, like with all these like fun voices in his he just seemed not like all the other grown-ups, and so he he I felt like he was really well cast in Hook.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think he's like the perfect because I think there's anyone else that could have played Peter Pan in that film.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I agree with this the Peter Pan site, like well, I agree when he so here's my thing with it what rewatching it now.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I I was loving when he became the young Peter not the young Peter Pan, but like when he be when he like reverted to his childhood like Peter Pan style.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: When he gets boat boxes when he was seriously clearly giving something because he looks like really young and his skin's really tight.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what we've done.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think they've already like maybe like done the thing, you know, with like with like um po ponytails and you try and go up to what they've done.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, sorry, go on.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I loved it when they did that, but when he's playing his adult self, I really didn't like him in this.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Did you not?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So what what did you think he didn't do it um convincingly?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I found him really annoying, and I know that's the point of it, but at the same time, it's just like he didn't feel right in it, but being this adult, yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: It just felt so off with him.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And even like but I know he can do these roles net like later on in his career.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know he did he did them really well, like from sort of like Goodwill Hunting onwards, he was doing them like he was doing those str serious roles onwards, but I don't know, it felt like it took so long to get to the Peter Pan young stage again, because it's probably like halfway through the film, yeah.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's maybe the I did I found that I did feel like it was it got it to it did take a lot longer to get to the reason why I was watching the film, which is like Peter Pan and and fun and flying and stuff.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: You are watching like a sort of quite dull, dull man be a bad father for quite a long time.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: When was the last time you saw it before um last week?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I will have been at still at school, so 90s, early 2000s.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't think I did it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think probably late 90s.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: What was your the sub what was your reaction watching it again uh this time round?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I it's difficult because I think it's difficult to watch something that you've loved so much with compared to kind of non-biased kind of it's also uh it was a collection of me like remembering scenes and so there's the bit on the air when he was on the flight and he's frightened of flying and he's like really rigid.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: I used to think about that all the time, and yeah, yeah.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I always remembered that, and um, and I always thought as well, like the I always I forgot Jack, his son, and and the baseball and how sad like how sad it is when he and he doesn't make it and he's just he's such he also I forgot how pathetic he was as well.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So when when like he gets sort of humiliated by not being able to fly when he goes when and we sort of skipped her, but like when he goes to Neverland and like he can't he can't like through the hours of his kids, he just looks so good.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I do I I I just was remembering that rather than like critically engaging with how well he was performing that, so that's why I was like, yeah, is he bad?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: He might be really bad.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've absolutely no idea, because I was just like, ah yes, this bit, and then it leads to this bit, and then and also as well, I completely forgot how absolutely incredible the cast is.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I completely forgot like it, and like but Bob Hoskins isn't it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Bob Hoskins is so good in it.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Bob Hoskins is incredible as he's so good.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, it it felt I think, yeah, I didn't I thought I did think he was good.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: I did think that um there were some like I think it was too long before you got to to Netherland, and it and it and I which is odd because I'm an adult, so I should be fine watching stuff, and as a kid I was absolutely fine.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I did not think it was too long at all.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was like colouring in or something while I was watching things.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Leaves me elves, probably.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's a two and a half hour movie, so like halfway through, it's a long time to get to it.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I didn't re I don't remember it being that long as a child.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I do not and that's that for a two and a half hour movie for a child is a long movie because you I'm used to like 90, 80, 90 minute movies back then.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: As well.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'm surprised.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Not to continually compare it to Casper, but Casper's like an hour long.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like Casper is so much happens in no time, and there's no buildup to any of it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you're just like, oh, the we're at this bit already.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hang on, we've only got oh we've got 10 minutes to go because the film's only ending.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: And do you know the only bit I remember from Casper is the bit where Dan Aykroyd uh uh runs in as the Ghostbusters.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's quite a good joke.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: But then that's it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only good bit.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only reason you remember it.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember nothing else from that movie.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but yeah, there's something like quite nice about like how the if you don't like the film, then obviously then it's just like, oh, that's even a lot more uh more film that I don't like that I'm watching.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: But like to respect kids' attention to the extent of being like, no, I'm gonna give them like a full full film.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, however, it is too long, and they they could have chopped out that middle bit.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you didn't you got the the thing is that you get the idea, like yes, he's a loser, he's obviously gonna be Peter Pan, so we can get to him being told he's Peter Pan sooner.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um But I think it's the Spielberg thing of like father-son uh travelling relationship that he loves doing that in every one of his like he used to love doing that at least in a lot of his movies, like and so I think he was just like, Oh yeah, I'll do Peter Pan, I'll do this like sequel to Peter Pan if I can do it like this.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because didn't he like leave and then come come back?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh did he?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I don't know.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: I thought he I thought he like left it in he that that they were gonna go in one direction with it and then they didn't, they went with another and then he came back and then directed it.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: But like I do I don't know, that might be a lie, so check that and then edit it out.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not obviously um but like yeah, well his films as well, his films are always often often very long.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, but uh when they're good, it doesn't matter because you're just like no, it's magical.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that was I feel like it was like slightly overaged because you kind of knew where it was going, so you kind of just wanted you just wanted him to find like you wanted Maggie Smith to just tell him who he was.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's what I wanted.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, Maggie Smith.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I thought she was that old, and that was my first um realization as a child that you could do like makeup like that because my parents showed me a picture of what she looked like in normal life, and I could not get over it.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: In my head, she's always like a 90-year-old woman.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I constantly think of her.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: I know that's all I can think of her as.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: To be honest, I don't I don't see her as anything younger than that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's always like, yeah, she's always sort of late 60s woman, always, or nine.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know what she looked like then, actually.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I've no idea.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um I remember seeing it and being absolutely like could not believe it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, Well, yeah, well they put like wrinkles in it.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how amazing.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Then they like did the reverse for Robin Williams.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Then they Botoxed him, yeah, or whatever they did.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it is weird when you see I did find that that sort of threw.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what they how have they done that?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not they don't have CGI, they haven't smoothed his face.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: They I think they have Botoxed him, or they've like stretched his skin back, like come on.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's really weird.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Have you seen The Simpsons when he looks thin and then you see the back of him and he's got like old dogs?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So let's let's talk about the the I'll do the basic synopsis a bit, but so it's basically like Peter Pan has left Netherland and grown up, and it cut it's like how many years later?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like 40 years later, 30 years later, I don't know.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: But he's got a family, um, and he's a grown man.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um then he goes back to London on a so he's an American man.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um and he goes back to London on a uh like a trip to see family and everything, and uh to see uh Wendy and at that point Hook returns and steals his children.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so he has to return to he he f he's forgotten everything, he has to return to Neverland to save his children.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he also like is a shit dad and like his son like him, and he's a horrible, yeah.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just very neglected.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's just he's obsessed with business.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's the American dream.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's just obsessed with like sales, yeah, hot sales and and like and office work.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not entirely clear, but he's selling something, and it doesn't matter, but he has a giant uh flip phone.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was good.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's the 90s phone.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Such a 90s phone.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's so yeah, the bar is so low for representing what an adult does in a kid's film, isn't it?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really is.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Really is just like get those papers on my desk by Monday, and then you're like, right, well he's he's got a job, so I understand that now.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's got an important job.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And he's he's about to sell something for millions, or he's about to buy something for millions, I don't know.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So like same.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's sometimes when it's really good, then they mention like the Japan markets, but like that's how needed.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the Japan markets were such a big thing in those days as well.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was a really big thing in all the films.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was huge.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've got to get the Japan markets are opening.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: That that that meant, yeah, that meant you were really in business.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is what I thought business was back in that back when I was a child.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is because I've not ever had a real job.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd like to just live my life believing that that's what you do.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just being like buy, sell, Japan markets are opening and circling back a lot.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's not far off of what what it is to be honest.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to know that if I wanted to like dip my toe into the actual working world, there that would be I could just rewatch hook and then just say.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the things that Robin Williams says in there, and then that'd be fine.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Apart from obviously when he's in Heavenland, but I went in an office.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Did you go straight into stand-up comedy then?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm I was a journalist for like well, I still am for like ten years.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I uh wow or six years.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I uh worked for women's magazines, but I um only worked in an office.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I worked an office for four years, three different titles, and then I went freelance in 2015.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I even that as an office is not a real office.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it counts.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: It does, but no one's buying or selling.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the actual thing is was very much far away from like the editorial where we're like, so has anyone like had sex recently and would like to write about it?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's basically that was like the vibe.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh and everyone be like, no, like oh that's a shame.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um but so yeah, so whenever I do see, like I'm still kind of um surface level um uh biasage fan, and always will be.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I prime.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Fair enough.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I went from marketing to nothing.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing is ultimate, that's that's a great.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's my friend has gone from being a marketing person to uh being an actor.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when she talks about her old job, that's grown up.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's like what is that, you know?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a grown-up.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: I I had to learn on the job, so that was stressful.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So so many words, so many like cool words, like email.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Email and Instagram.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like desk.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't desk!
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: I did have a desk.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a me that's really great.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: We had a hot desk, so we just like in people.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no sometimes.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh great, like, yeah, it's rubbish.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: I still I've still never understood the point of hot desking.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: That like blows my mind, like why people do that.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can't understand either because it's just not really saving any money.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not about hook, is it really, but like it's just it's just it's just annoying 'cause you like I'd like to have a bit of security.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Same things every day on my desk.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Allow it to accrue, then do a big clear out because I've got too much stuff.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I would like.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then you end up sitting in other people's stuff.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like someone's jumper, like who, like, whose is this?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like marketing.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: My friend told me that he he's got a hot, like, he has the hot disc at his his job and he has to like run in early every day to get his like favourite desk.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so it's added stress.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like in restaurants when they're like, oh, can you all the food will come when it's ready?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, okay, and then they're like, Oh, can you all like they don't serve so you have to go and get your cutlery and your plates and seasoning and like your napkins, and then then you have to go out and pay at the chill.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh hang on, I might as well have just like gone to Sainsbury's, like I don't understand why I've gone for a meal.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Are you just shit talking nando's now?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well I smoke nando's, yeah.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to go there all the time.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the idea of like, yeah, like, yeah, you've got a you've got an office, but you also have to like it's like a beach with your towel in the morning, you have to like bag it otherwise.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: No one needs that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: On a holiday or otherwise.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, I know.
• 25:23
  unknown: Oh god.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, yeah, back to the movie then.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like they they um they so it opens with a um a Peter Pan play that they're all watching and um starring his daughter and uh Peter's in the audience, and uh his daughter's playing Wendy, and then his his phone rings and he answers it in the audience.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Also, did that not jog your memory, Peter, in any way?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: I know, that's a good point.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like absolutely like about like a day later when Maggie Sitz is like, by the way, you're Peter Pan and I'm Wendy's like, I this is brand new information.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I have absolutely no way of knowing that until now.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: He says what It's like Peter and Wendy are on stage.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Do you not go?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wait, I'm Peter and my one of my friends is Wendy.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's so crazy.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes, I love yeah, as well.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: That is another classic trope of like the although people do I've interrupted myself there.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: People do do um I would have said that no one does that.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: No one like in the middle of a play, the kids score play is like hello Japan, no one does that.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: But having we've got like a co-working space in the kind of comp it's like if if I say the complex I live in, that sounds like I'm like, I don't know, living in a prison.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um it sounds like you're a cult.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, which I have.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but there's like a little writing area, yeah.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so everyone kind of goes there quietly, and I no longer go there because every single time there's someone who's like, hello, and then just stays there, and and everyone and sees everyone else like visibly shrinking away and like putting more and more headphones on their ears and like covering their heads with blankets, trying to soundproof it, and they just continue.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: They have like full video calls, it's so rude.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, actually, I think it's the height of realism, and I applaud uh that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think I think it's quite realistic to be honest.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I've definitely seen that happen, and like not to the extent it does in this not where he's like talking over the play, but no, he's literally they can't hear them, yeah.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: But also I because I I now have to know that's the bar for human behaviour is now so low for me that I'm like, yeah, fair enough.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And he popped up a bit as well, and then that would be more realistic, actually.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Shut on the stage.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it is but that's that's the perfect, like, yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he's he's too busy for his kids.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but they don't really get that annoyed until he talks about how he's got like his business to take care of on the day on like a specific day, and then Jack's like, hang on, that's the day of my big game.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, Don't worry, I'll be there.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: You have my word.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, you you know he won't, and also he's just shouted over the top of a play.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's way worse.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's so much more disruptive for his child.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's so like the thing is he's awful to both of the kids, and like the other the daughter whose name I don't even remember gets like pushed aside.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is her story is not that important to yeah, she's just sort of there, isn't she, throughout it?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's all about she has everything happens the same to her, yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like it's all about Jack.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I could I couldn't visualise, I think the daughter's called Maggie.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Possibly, um, but that's only because when I was rereading the plot synopsis, I was getting confused with Maggie Smith, and then I was like, of course they've not called Maggie Smith Maggie in the plot synopsis.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: That must be the daughter.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I could visualise Jack's face, but I couldn't, I didn't rec I didn't remember the daughter at all when I was re-watching it.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, it's like a whole new girl that I've never seen before.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had no I didn't really remember the daughter to be honest.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's all too common in these films.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um Moira, of course, that's a huge part.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Moira, the wife, uh obsessed child, obsessed with the name Moira, could not really could not cope that a woman could be called Moira.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's that's not what's like you've said Mirror wrong.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's there's there's and there's a six-year-old called Stevie.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, Moira's a mad name.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um very bigoted child.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, I thought Stevie was your nickname.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's my actual name, yeah.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's fine now, but when you're six and it's like 1995, everyone's like, and you and also you live in a very small town.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's like, what?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Which you know is the is the least problem that people have with uh with with names, but it's still quite annoying.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I have many legs stand on being mean to Moira, but I just found the name Moira so brilliant.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, sorry, go on.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, like, as my name growing up was not even now, it's not the easiest thing to like for people.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, well, this is a thing I was talking about, I was I've been talking about that with a few friends recently of like I've been I found out that I've mispronounced for years names of my close friends because and they've mispronounced it to help white people pronounce their names.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: So upsetting, but also like, yeah, because when you're like six, you don't have the confidence to go to an adult.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, actually it's pronounced you know uh Yanis.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or what you know, do you know what I mean?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not whatever you just said or any of the other things.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: So and then you start to say the name.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've also probably mispronounced your name.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: What happened is now you got it right.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is it okay?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: And but the the uh the the idea of like as a six-year-old being like, excuse me, um, like you can't, it's only when you're like 30 that you're able to do that.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that by that point you're called the wrong name, like oh god, yeah, anyway.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: But but we can say but like we can say Moira and that's all like Christopher's got a P in it, like everyone's fine with that, but everyone's like I'm sure you've been called like Yayannis, yeanness?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Everything you can imagine.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Janice! Janice, Janice was a common one.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Yarnis.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yarnis, yeah.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: My favourite one was on the E T this is a tangent, but like on the ET ride uh at Universal Studios, they would like they would um like take your names down at the and at the end he would say goodbye to everyone and he would like each name each person.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was uh seven or eight years old, and he told me he went, Goodbye, Yay Anus.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's like, oh god, it's so bad, isn't it?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, I wonder why people are like, oh god, I've got a couple of friends who are like Malaysian and their names are like Phil.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah, because their parents were like, give them a name that's just easy, they don't need the but that's it, and that is that's the option, but it's so it's so sad.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um when there's fucking Moiras kicking around, fine.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Although you did question it.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I did question it, but that's only because I'm fed off of people being like, so Stephen Stivels?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is it Stephanie?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is it though?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is it like no?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, that was a tangent, but I just felt very strongly.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um so this is when he says he's gonna go to the to his big game, but then he's like then it cuts to him, uh it cuts to him in his office, and he's like playing around with like his f in like the all the other people in the office.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's like, I don't know what he's doing exactly, they're playing catch or something.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like base, some kind they're playing baseball themselves, I think, even.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I felt like that was what they were trying to show.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, look, he he's even like he's not even doing actual work.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's not with this kid.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: He he it looks like he's intentionally delaying leaving.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that then they don't really like make a thing out of that.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like does he not because you have to believe that he loves his children and he loves his family, otherwise the film doesn't work.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: But then if he yeah, if he's just like I'd prefer to just sit and play catch in the office than go home, very difficult to have because he knows surely he knows where he's going when he leaves.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's very it's very difficult to have sympathy.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: But then again, I was watching it from the perspective of he is a nice man who is actually Peter Pat, and so he is so I I just like I just forgive He's been corrupted by his adulthood.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've been corrupted by him, yeah, and also the genie from the different film, I've been corrupted by that.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, not you.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: I said he's been corrupted by his adulthood.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh he's been corrupted by his adult, yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry, yes, I thought I'd been, and I was like, that as well.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: But um yes, it is I suppose yeah, it is that like yeah, it I do very, very uh clearly remember thinking like just how boring and rubbish being an adult looked like.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it made me not want to be an adult, and I so I guess that's a good thing that they they're showcasing uh that they want to show.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that's the one they want to show.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so he arrives at the he arrives and obviously everyone is gone from the baseball match.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, how late were you?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: He was like seven hours late.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like he got the roof.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: So baseball is the longest sport as well.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: It goes on for like days.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's really, yeah, he's really fucked up.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's um again as well, like it's quite isn't it quite a but it's quite a big ball, it's quite a big ballpark that his team's playing in.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And for years, I used to think that was just films, not just baseball, but like, you know, like uh college football, like American football.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it'd always be like all the bleachers and like huge crowds.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then like it was only like a few years ago, and I was like, oh, it's actually they actually put loads of money into their sport, and actually they do get to play in something other than the school gym where we get to play.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: I know, it's so terrible compared to like we get like such terrible sports places like compared to them.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: So bad, and just so like rudimentary, and so then yeah, I do remember that being like, God, it's his son's playing on like he's like a professional baseball player.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: He's really good.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: He's playing with the adults and um yeah, it's a he arrives when everyone's gone, and then it's like and then it cuts to the um them on the plane going to London, and it's like there's turbulence going on, and Peter's very nervous, and then Jack's like very uh and then Moira says to says to Peter, go and sit with your son, and he sits next to him and he's like throwing the baseball and smashing everything and throwing it against the window and the oxygen mask comes down, yeah, isn't it?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's awful.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Son's a pain in the arse.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: He really is.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's uh he's not a I I found Jack really annoying watching this.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he really is, and you can understand why he's like like he's like stop it! And he's like, Well yeah, because you being a dick, like if if you sat behind or in front of or on the same plane, as again throwing the ball up so hard the oxygen mass came down, you'd kick off like yeah.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: I probably would have done the same thing as Peter at that moment.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I was I applauded him.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Although I've only just I've only just made the connection between Peter's Afraid of flying and Peter Pan.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:44
  unknown: Just now.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: No, I wrote down symbolism.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was very deep because my entire childhood I did not make that connection.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: God, that's deep, isn't it?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm sure I didn't make the connection as a child, but like watch rewatching it now, I wrote it out.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Another reason why it should well, that's very good business that they did that.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's very good.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: One one for the adults there.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: But he's also afraid of heights later on as well, which is the other thing.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's um.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: But uh but Peter says to him, You need to grow up.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then they get to London, and it's the most Christmassy London scene ever.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, well, this is why when I moved to London, I was absolutely devastated because it was like all the films, it's like it's I think it's like Kensington Palace Gardens or something that they live in.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know we so nice on the whole of the in the whole of Europe or something.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh like um I mean Paddington was not when I was growing up, but if I just watched that those Paddington films as well, like that's kind of Notting Hill, like that it was like, oh cool, you can move to London, and even when if you live in like a shit flat like Hugh Grant in hot in Notting Hill, it's still like in a beautiful area with a and then you get there and hear and you're like, oh no, that's not what I mean even in Notting Hill, like he's still living in Notting Hill.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh out on a book uh book uh shop salary.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's living in and it's and it's like not a bad flat, like it's actually quite nice.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: All of the scenery's lovely, and it's like, oh no, what will happen is you'll live in a shit flat in a terrible area as well.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's crucial.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it it the whole thing will be depressing.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's for until you're quite rich, actually.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: But their house is staggering, isn't it?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's so it's huge.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Also, what does Wendy what did Wendy do?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did she inherited it probably?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, the darlings are quite wealthy, aren't they?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember anything about the original Peter Pan, so like you if you remember I never read it.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: I watched it, I never read it.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I didn't I didn't know oh right, the the the Dizzy one.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know I haven't I've I've never been interested in any really Peter Pan.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: I liked um remember which one it is, Finding Neverland, not leaving Neverland, finding Neverland.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I seem to like things that are around Peter Pan more than I like the actual story of Peter Pan.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a bit too um I think I was gonna say a bit too unrealistic, but then like I love The Lion King and that is just animals talking, but that is that is realistic of what it would like to be like to be an animal, perhaps.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um whereas Peter Pan always felt a bit bitty and a bit like I didn't I didn't ever like wanted to be any of the characters or cared.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was never into Peter Pan as a child, but I loved Hook.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't I don't know why.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just because it made it more magical because you saw how mundane the world was or something, maybe that.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: I also wanted to be a lost boy, so Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was really panicky because it was thinking about being a lost boy because it was like, yeah, but I do want to go home sometimes, and that was what that was what was sad.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, it's Christmas in London, they all arrive, and it's like it's they go to Wendy's house and you find out they go back every year, but Peter hasn't been back in ten years.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Which is also like I feel like they should have just made it that he hadn't been back since he was a whenever he left.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why they made it ten years.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that did seem strange.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: So so and what is I'm trying to remember, what was the thing?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he because he there's the idea that he came, so like the chronology being like he was beautiful, yeah.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Then he would come back and visit Wendy and then fell in love with Wendy, with Wendy's daughter, so then stayed.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: So then when he stayed, who brought him up?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Wendy.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: And why is he American?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: What why is he American?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because he yeah, that's a good point.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because he because he would have come back because also as well, like when he when he like rediscovers that he's Peter Pan, like he's he's like a 43-year-old Peter Pan, like it's not like he's a little boy.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: So did he come back that age as like a 43-year-old man developed this accent and like fell in love with a with a very young woman.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Can he age?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: Can he yeah?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: But people grow old.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, only you can nobody never grow old if you stay in Neverland.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that okay, I oh god, that must have been terrifying.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Then so he so Wendy watch Wendy had to watch a old Maggie Smith, Wendy, had to watch a young boy who she sort of loved.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: And who she knew for like 40 years.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: 40 years, who visited her like constantly, get like fall in love with her daughter because she was too old, and then become like a 40-year-old man.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: That is so horrifying.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's oh that is classic, like, oh god, right.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: You should I'm very I don't think Wendy has been given enough in this film.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm not really engaged with that, but that's that's traumatic.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: I only really clocks it when um it like when you see that point of um him him young and he goes and like kisses Moira.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, ugh, this is kind of weird.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: See, at that point I was just like, lovely, correct.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's but then I haven't actually of course like that well, women wending were presumably in in in love, because you know, why you don't do that, you know you don't leave Neverland for just anybody, do you?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then bone their daughter.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: No wonder he hasn't been back, actually.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: So they they they they definitely should have made it he's not been back since he's like repressed his memories of it because it's so traumatic.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and like why would you what can you imagine what the Christmas was like 10 years ago?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's quite close to the time.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's just like, hello, yes, I'm still I'm still I'm gonna like my family.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you Yeah, and I've just had a child with your daughter.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine, and you're still too old, so I don't like people.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: God, in in and then just a Tinkerbell somewhere in the middle, just ruining almost ruining the film, but but I'll talk about that later.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, good, I'm glad you said that.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely judgment.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely weird and creepy and upsetting decision.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: So he hasn't been back there in ten years.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um and she says something like Peter, you become a pirate, and I can't remember why, but she says that to him.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um oh, it's because he's like talking about his business, and they say like, oh, every adult uh oh, and he's like spying and selling or something like that, and like that's supposed to be like a pirate thing.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's just symbolized it's just a thing for later on.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like he he is like Hook, who is a a pirate and adult.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then the wind the giant windows were open, the d the um what they called the um bay window?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Those bay windows, yes.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Those are open, and he shuts them, he's like very scared of them, and he yells at the kids.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then he yells at the kids because of his deal going wrong.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: And Moira throws the phone out the window and he gets pretty angry.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: His million dollar deal goes wrong.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I love that.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: So powerful, so strong, Moira.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when it like lands in the snow, because that's to the end as well.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of it's been there for like however long, a month.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just no one's thought to go inside and get it.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so Wendy tells the kids like a bunch of stories, and uh while they Oh no, I was gonna say they um they've gone away.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they go to like Wendy's thing, but she hasn't gone there yet.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um she says something about Oh, the kids say something about a scary window washer stealing Jack's ball.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's Hook's.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm guessing that's Hook or Smee.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do we think Hook sort of like no, but it feels now when I've rewatched it, there is an uncomfortable element with Hook where it's like you go around just stealing children.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've just realised what happened.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: So so he said they say a scary window washer stole Jack Small, but at the end you see Smee as a window washer.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's Smee who's like, right, of oh, oh god.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: But hang on.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: But isn't oh yeah, but that's confusing, isn't it?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because he's not, is he like a normal man?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I always took that to mean that it had all been a dream.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: But we can talk about that.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I see I thought the same I took it the same thing.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Bob Hopkins is a like a groomer.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he does dirty work.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: There is something that is there is an element to that, isn't there?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like it feels like in real life.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you're an older when you're older and after all the stuff that's this sort of come out where essentially everyone's a paedophile, it's very like you can't watch it without thinking, like, oh, occasionally it's like just a grown man on an island uh with loads of kids.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: That that's fine.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he also is psychopath and weird as well, and like there is a weird element to it.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: But that what I thought was nice was that they didn't the Peter when um Peter Banning becomes Peter Pan and it is with the Lost Boys, there wasn't I didn't I didn't feel that had any particular weird moments.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like him and him and Rufio and everything.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was actually done ri really nicely, but because he's like a nice man and is having a nice time and they're teaching him, and he's not like whereas Hook is a bit Hook feels creepy, it is a bit creepy, and uh something about wig and stuff, and you're like, I don't know, like what are you doing?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: What else have you had hidden?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Hook is Michael, maybe Hook is Michael all along, shit.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um Hook uh so they they go to honour Wendy at Great Ormond Street um for like um for her what she's done for orphans.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um what she has done, unclear, but probably just given a lot of money.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's it, probably.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then everyone stands for her, and it's like this huge deal.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and then and while that's going on, Hook returns and steals the kids.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um they come back and glass has been broken, lights are all off, and um the children are gone.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I can't remember his name, but the guy is just having like it's the guy with the marbles that lost his marbles.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Tootl tooties?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Tootles.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: Something like that.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's got something like that, yeah.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: But he's been like he's terrified, he's like, oh, I tried to stop it and all this stuff, but he's slightly off.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's something wrong with that.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: I hated that.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: I hated that.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then Phil Collins makes a cameo as a policeman.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, that was a real uh I did not, yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure when I was younger, one of my parents were like, that's Phil Collins, and I was like, I don't know who that is.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that it meant nothing to me until now, and still I was like, why is he in this?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: It means the bare minimum.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's the it's it's Dark Roydin Casper, isn't it?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's that he just showed up one day and was like, Oh, what's going on?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Can I be in this?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they went, Yeah, fine.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, why not?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: I always used to get Bob Hoskins and Phil Collins confused as well.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: They've got they've got similar energy.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Cheeky chappy East London vibe.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I I wonder if it came from this.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's we found the source, yeah.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: That has to be, yeah.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're all very similar in this.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: So they um they but they tell so Wendy starts telling Peter, oh, you have to go, you have to go, and you have to remember, you have to become Peter Pan again.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: How far back can you remember?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I don't remember anything before twelve.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: Which again, when you're talking about that element of like pedophilia, yeah, real bad again, it's yeah, it's really bad.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is because it's like as well, fascinating that you would live your entire life not knowing anything before 12 and thinking that was fine and not being like, maybe I should look into this.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should that old woman who I grew up with.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should ask her if anything would have happened.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I suppose the idea is that yeah, like he's repressed everything so much.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he thinks that he God, maybe he thinks he was abused or something, and is like, oh no, they want to go go there, and it's like, no, it's fine.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was, but not in the bad way.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: In the man with a hook for an arm in another land, and then that's much better.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: I just like to think that that doesn't exist in this world.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to imagine that.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely not.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: But when you say out loud, it's like, oh Jesus, yeah, it's not great.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: But Peter does think Wendy is crazy at this point, and then she's like, Don't you know who you are?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're not Peter banning, you're Peter Pan.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, he deals with that as I'd imagine.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: He was just like insane.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: Just like, what are you talking about?
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um but the other thing is like also, does Moira know about all this, or she just like knows none of it?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think um uh nobody who wrote it cared what Moira thought.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because like while they're all gone, she's kind of upset for a little bit, and then like just deals with them all being like so her kids and Peter disappear for a long time.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she sits in a chair, doesn't she, with a blanket, and she goes over to the bay windows a lot and looks out.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but yeah, she's um yeah, she's not she's she just she's sort of a woman that those things happen to, and then it's she's like you know and then she's very happy when they come back, and that's very nice, but like yeah, you don't get to kind of feel her her pain at all.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's no it's no like mum in home alone, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, mum needs uh Moira needs a lot of therapy after this.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's I think everyone does really.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but the so I wrote down at this point I love the shadows in this because like I I love what they do with like it's it's very it's Spielberg, you know Spielberg and direct, yeah.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's one thing he does.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: The best way of doing it, wasn't it?
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like seeing it is lame, but then the the shadows just makes it so magical and so like real like realistic, like it feels like yeah really happening.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: God I yeah, it's so exciting.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he opens he opens the bay window and Tinkerbell gets in.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: And here's so he says to her, I don't believe in fairies.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um which obviously like if he's repressed everything, I'd I'm not gonna believe in this.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but what so what's your thoughts on Tinkerbell then?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: Is it like you don't like Tinkerbell the character or you don't like Tinkerbell in this?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's very actually it's probably quite uh complex.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think like at school, all of the like popular girls loved Tinkerbell and had like loads of Tinkerbell stuff.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it would make me be like, oh shut up.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it was and then there was this element as well where they sort of and I didn't obviously at the time this was happening, I wasn't like thinking about this, but just looking back on it, they did sort of like sexualise Tinkerbell to an extent where she's like this like sexy baby girl, yes, with like a tiny skirt, and the way it's always like she's like looking really cockettish, and it's and that was the sort of I guess the maybe the vibe in the Disney thing, but not as much as then suddenly not as much as this, yeah.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was on like but even like before Hook, or maybe it was around the same time, but like the Tinkerbell image on just like a ring binder would have like a flirty message on it, and it'd be like Yeah, I don't remember that.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, sorry, this baby wants to have sex with me.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is that that what I've got on the ring binder now?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what we're doing?
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she's very young looking, and it's also very weird, and none of the other like Disney girls had that element, so I suppose they would they'd become like, oh, she could be the sex one.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've got the book one with Belle, we've got the look the I was gonna say the lion one, but Nala wasn't really, she wasn't a Disney princess.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a little one I can think of, oh, the the poor one, Cinderella, the Povo one, fine, and then um the one with a tiger, Jasmine, she's from another country, that's acceptable, that's all we'll do with that, and then like yeah, and then you've got the sex one, which is just think about, and so then I sort of understood why they did what they did with Tinkerbell and Hook, where they had like unre like not very not not unrepressed, very much repressed uh feelings for Peter Pound.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Then they shoved in the page.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I I I hate it as a child.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: I remember being like, oh, I feel really uncomfortable watching it.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know why, because I think Julie Roberts is the wrong it's the wrong, she's it doesn't so wrong for it.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I can see Julia Roberts would looks a bit like a a a fairy, she looks a bit like a Tinkerbell type, fine.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's like you've got one wish, and a wish is I would like to be a very big woman, and she's a big woman, and then she and then the kiss is so uncomfortable, and I think that's oh I hate it.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: She should be a little light, like that's what she should be.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: She should be like a thing that you don't understand quite and is uh is a is is another being.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Don't make her like Julia Roberts and then get off with her in a in also quite a bad kiss scene, but it's actually quite because they're so mismatched as well.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're being mismatched.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she f she feels too young, but like and also as well that it's there's there is a there is a there is a constant in um in films, especially uh in like older films where the b before everyone kind of realised it, where it's like, and this is a mean thing to say, but it is sort of like incredibly hot women with like and Robert Williams is a lovely, was a lovely man, but he's not supposed to be a hot man in this, like and he's not, so he isn't like and it's really like oh no, also like also, also as well.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like the last time she saw him, he was probably like what 10?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: And now he's like 43, and she's the same age, and then she's like, yeah, like it's no.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good point.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: What is she how is she supposed to be like in her 20s or what she's always that age?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or I know waiting for him to get older so she can get off with him?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like did she always fancy when yeah, it it's it there's too but also as well, there's you almost can't intellectualise it too much because it's just it's just a wrong scene.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a really miss, it really does not work, and it feels uncomfortable and too sexy, but not in a sex like it feels just feels wrong.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I uh yeah, that's that's my whole issue with Tinkerbell in this as well.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: It just feels very weird.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Following a light, that's fine.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sad when it's like, oh uh she's dying, and then they have to like that's very sad.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: A little light's fading, look very big uh innocent, pure.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to be a big woman.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I'm very don't I don't get it.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: But she kept so she carries him to Neverland, she like takes him along, and uh so they fly to Neverland, he wakes up there and um there's pirates everywhere.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I I wrote down at this point the sets on this are so good, I love them so much.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it just reminded me of that made me feel like a child again watching that, with just like seeing all those sets, and it made me it made me think of like when you go to a theme park and have all those all of that sort of stuff as well.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: I just I loved it so much.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you can um now they have now you can tell CGI and stuff.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas they there's something so special when it's actually real and you feel like you can go and touch it and you could be there and you could play on it and you could whereas you now you know if CGI you you sort of there's a bit of dissonance, isn't there, where you kind of Yeah, definitely.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, again, I think like it with all of this, it's very um you can feel like you can you can be a part of it, and then I think with the CGI stuff, you need I don't think I've ever felt that.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you always feel a bit separate.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can you always end up I well, I always end up being like, wow, great CGI, rather than like, look at how cool it is, I want to be in that world.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um like uh being more aware of the effect rather than the actual like world of the bloody avatar, fucking up for everyone.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: Can't wait for the sequels.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: But Smee picks up a hook, he's getting like the hook made.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: So what like again, like what was Hook doing before that?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: Did he is he just getting a new hook made?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's like uh, yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: What what happened to his hook?
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: The um I th oh I thought that I used to think that scene, and I still think it's great, is a great introduction to him and the world because it's like yeah, I did just the symbol, and it's like so and they they build him up a little bit, and it's like yeah, it's very exciting, and also as well how uh how sharp his hook is.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to be reminded, isn't it?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, has he got like uh loads of spell?
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well he does, he has a collection of hooks, doesn't he?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do we see them at some point?
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, you're right, he does, yeah.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: He does, yeah, but but they all sort of look the same, so he's just got loads of the same hooks, which sort of flex out.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's a bit of a psychopath.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: But he yeah, the first thing he does is put a man in a chest with a scorpion.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, really upsetting his stall out.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um really horrible that scorpion I was sort of obsessed with scorpions, and I think it's from that film just because I I thought they're the most ugly and upsetting looking and like evil looking creatures.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're so and I think it's from that scene.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's oh it's horrible.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I I don't know, that yeah, I I've never I don't really think about scorpions that much.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't but uh there is that thing of like when I there's that tweet that went round of like when I was a child, I thought quicksand would be more of a thing than it was than it is.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's there's all those things that like you you think of as a child and you're like so scared of them, and like now you're like, oh well I've never seen a scorpion and I I probably won't, and that's fine.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, quicksand huge that I love that tweet because that was so true.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, learn that you shouldn't struggle and you should like dress like I'll never need to know that information.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, or like uh if you see a shark, punch out the nose, like I'm not going to, so that's it's really good to know that I probably just put that situation very simple.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: But uh so Peter sees the child the children with um with Hook and everything.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, Oh, these are my children, and then uh Hook's like, Oh, who is this imposter?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because that can't be Peter Pan.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I hate I hate that scene because I hate I felt really bad for him, uh for Robin Williams, because I I felt like he's so pathetic, he's so pathetic, and you know he's not gonna fly because narratively he can't at that point, yeah.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um it'll be too early, and I and you and he's been like a terrible dad, so yes, it's understandable, but you haven't like seen him get consequences, particularly, and so then when you see the consequences, you do feel quite bad.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: You see him through his his kids' eyes, and his kids just think he's a fucking idiot, yeah.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it and he yeah, because he climbs up and he tries he's like first of all, he tries to pay hook off with a check.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he guys, just brilliant.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you take American Express?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh so he climbs up and he's forgotten he's forgotten everything and he's just like hanging there, just like lying down, lying on the like the on the thing, and he's like, um Then uh is it Tinkerville that says I'll I've I'll give you one week and I'll get him to shape?
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which again that is very unrealistic, because just just kill him, hook.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've he's your nemesis, you've wanted him this whole time.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think he just doesn't believe it's him.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, do you think?
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: I thought see, I uh that's okay, right.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've I've literally just been like he knows secretly.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because he took he might.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, but he might if you're having fun with it, he just might he just might want to fight Peter Pan again.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no there's no actual evidence that he does know that it's Peter Pan is there really in any way, but it's just in my head, like I think he does know, but he but so I don't understand why he doesn't just kill him on the off chance because he's the man who just put um another man in a box for the scorpion.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that's true, yeah.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if if he thinks he is or he's not, it's just it's just a guy.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: So why would you, even if it's not Peter Pan, why would you prefer to fight the man after he's gone been trained for three days?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why wouldn't you just fight him now when he can't do anything?
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: But look, that's splitting hairs, it's you know yeah.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, he gets three days, they give him three days instead of a week time.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's enough time to alone I'd have fly and fight like a ninja.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: Fine.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and then the the weirdest thing happens, uh one of the creepiest things happens at this point because he falls in the water and then the mermaids take him and kiss him.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually blocked that out.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's another weird, creepy scene, isn't it?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: What is that?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: What is the purpose of that scene?
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand why they did that.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: The tone What is the purpose of the scene?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh, and they just oh yeah, I remember that made me feel really uncomfortable as a child as well.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're like, Yeah, I don't understand.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of a sexy thing, isn't it?
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: But like, why like there is no need for it?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: It never doesn't come back.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, but like they could have had like a really cool, interesting creature, yeah.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or just one of them, just to to help, but it's in like a why'd they have to kiss him?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like get off with him, yeah.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because they don't give him like proper seat, like, you know, no, they're not they're not giving him air or anything.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: But they're like, are they?
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that the thing that because they're I don't know, it doesn't feel like it.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, I know it doesn't feel like it.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's the I reckon that's the idea.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but then but otherwise that is just a man falling into some water and there's loads of women going off of them and then he gets out.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it has to be air.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're like fish and they give out oxygen and take in carbon dioxide.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do they?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I I think it is, but it but it's so poorly done.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: They it really is.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: They really need I can't believe I actually I blocked that out from as I'm not surprised you blocked that, yeah.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I blocked it out from last week as well, because I I've I've got so like this is why I need to make notes, because I like because I would have I would have no I would have known that down just as like, no.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I wrote I wrote down at the time this is creepy.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um they get they he gets carried to the island and he wakes and then uh and then all the lost boys get woken up by a Tinkerbill.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so you finally get to see the Lost Boys, and this is where it finally starts to get like it finally picks up a little bit.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean a little bit?
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely Rollox along.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is the best bit.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, yeah, this is where it starts like building its energy.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um because you get you get the lost boys waking up and then they're all yelling bangarang, they're all even yelling Rufio, Rufio swings in.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: The greatest I love the I love the idea so much of like how can we show he's got the magic back?
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: How easy would it be to have just been like, I don't know, he'll just like look better and like there'll be some sparkles or something, or I forgot it's considering the way that they were going down, he'll have sex with a tree or something because they were getting more and more like that's what's going on.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: But then to make it so that it's that he so like it's fake food and it's like air food, like no one can eat.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is I can't eat, and then and he's like, This is stupid, and then when he kind of believes it becomes real, it's so good.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was exciting, it's amazing because as a kid, although I did think that I wish the food didn't look so weird.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, I'd love that as a kid.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I loved that so much.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, this food looks weird and amazing and so colourful.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: It all looks like sort of um like pick and mix uh like the mousse.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like wet, slimy uh blue ice cream.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: But like it's it's but it's uh I wanted it as a child.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's so interesting because I was like, oh no, I prefer if it was crisps.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was very boring as a child, so that's I just want crisps.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: I prefer crisps actually.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I remember once when I was little, um we had like a uh bunk beds and the bottom bunk bunk was taken out and then we would have like a little like play kitchen in there me and my sister who was very young she she was still in a cot and one morning we woke up and my mum had put real food in the kitchen so we could actually make breakfast with the little little pants and it was the greatest it was genuinely like the greatest morning of my entire and I think she did it because of the hook thing.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think like that so I've got like a real like affinity with that of like I need to love miming food.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why because you can just go and get some food from the kitchen ask your parents for some food.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: It wouldn't have been amazing if you your mum just like left like uh uh like porridge or something and then some coloured like some some food colouring go to town no it's not it's food oh yeah I don't know but but it would have but yeah that the also the idea of a food fight as well is like the dream oh it's so fun that's that's like the clearest memory of this film is that scene yeah to me it's always stuck out to me um but they they do first like try and train him for a little bit and um there's the little boy who is just adorable he's so cute just the sweetest little boy and he's the only one that believes him of course because he's the cutest one so he must believe him yeah and I saw a picture of him in on IMDB and he looks the same but just with like a little beard.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god great great I have a favourite I I haven't I I I should check that out I haven't I haven't looked at what the Lost Boys all look like as they grow up.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean they're all like older than us obviously but they Rufio I I always felt like um I found that character arc so moving as a child.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: I loved Rufio Rufio was my favourite character same oh just the best character just amazing he's such he's so charismatic and so like you you everyone wants to be here's his hair be free his hair his hair is amazing just the the weird mohawk sort of thing the red stripe on it I love it um Rufio's like the the kind of the leader of the Lost Boys though and he's like he's I mean he is the leader of the Lost Boys um he's um and he's the one that doesn't bully Peter and he like gets into a little sword fight with him um and he's like kind of almost like being protective almost being a bit jealous of him yeah because yeah because isn't he like yeah he took over and now when he's back that means that he's not a leader anymore and it's hard.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: Power play.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and he's a he's slightly older than the rest of the Lost Boys as well.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: He's about 15 and the rest of them at like 10 and under.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah he was like a man yeah only grown man um and so all the Lost Boys decide to train Peter um while Hook is teaching while Hook is like taking over like looking after the kids and like uh getting him to smash clocks and yeah love that and also again like he kind of grooming Jack a little bit yeah he makes Jack he's trying to turn Jack against dad doesn't he but then and but then the daughter's just like yeah yeah and they're like alright fine just just do what you need to do air as well being like um yeah that's a good scene this this the clock smashing yeah and he like he gets him upset because he's like oh did your dad go to your baseball game did your dad was your dad ever around and all this stuff it's like yeah that's true yeah I understand that's why he starts smashing the clocks um yeah I feel really I thought I felt really sorry for Jack in those things I felt like the the actor did the job I thought yeah he did he is yeah he's good in that scene um and then we got the dinner scene which is just iconic uh and then uh Ruby I and Peter get into an insult battle which is just oh that's so good oh yes have you written down some of the insults I didn't because they were they were going so thick and fast.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah like they they're great um it's like uh I love it when people trying to be rude but it's a PG film.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah like you can't it's like in Harry Potter with a concert like Ron you get it's like yeah uh as oh I remember yeah even at when when I read that as a child that was like oh git what does git mean I think I I I I thought it was jit for a long time and then like git yeah it does sound worse but like yeah it's it it it's it's so it's always so lame because you want to just be like I don't fuck you well's like you st you smelly butt and something like something like that.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and it's all about him just being like a like a fat old man isn't it it's like yeah well but also yeah yeah it's not it's not wrong.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah but Tinkerbells but it's building up to um then they have the they have the food f fight and uh Rufio chucks a d a coconut so the whole thing is it's an imagin it's an imaginary food there's no actual food there.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_02: So Rufio is chucking an imaginary coconut and then Peter grabs his sword spins around and like slices through the coconut as it's being and then like that's when he's finally back to being himself like the young Peter fan that he was um and Thud butt gives gives uh who also amazing Thud Butt so um he gives uh Peter Toodles marbles yeah so just very sweet despite sort of like even you know not really understanding who Toodles is and and sort of that but then that that sub that subplot is he's he used to be there and and you know he left off yeah but it's that I love that they had that in it.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I thought they were really sweet of the depth to it that they didn't need to but it yeah made it a bit yeah it just made it really sweet and because everyone thinks he's mad and he's oh he actually has lost his marbles word play.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh actually like the the clock scene happens now off right after that yeah but anyway like Pete It's a long film there's a lot going on yeah hook says make uh you gotta make time stand still uh and then there's the baseball match and uh Peter Coaster steal the hook and so Jack is playing in the baseball match with like all these elderly people I felt I feel really I used I used to get very upset when he was when like you saw him with Hook and he was doing what his he should have done I used to I know I know it's very sad and like why why didn't they have a scene where the child is in a play and Hook like gets a phone call but doesn't take it like why didn't they have that as a scene?
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah have it for both have it for both should have ended with that that would have been great it's just a full circle um and then uh Jack hits a home run and then Peter gets hit in the head by the ball and and sees himself as a younger Peter Pan in the water in the reflection.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes yeah that was uh never said that fine no so that's something's actually if you just like lift it out it'd be fine and you would cut maybe like ten minutes off like at the mermaid scene the Tinkerbell kissing scene they're three chunks there's there's gotta be there's I'm sure there's more in the first half but like yeah just lift it out don't eat it um this is the weird bit this is Tinkerbell in her dress and then uh yeah I They get off Peter P Peter finds a thimble and remembers everything they find thimble remembers everything.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um you find out she took him and he flew he flew home um but the window was shut and his parents had forgotten about him.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah like his adoptive parents I guess I don't know um so he chased his shadow into Wendy's house and it's young Gwynneth Paltrow Yes did not remember that I didn't know she was at that point no probably didn't know she was at a good point um and this is Wendy kept growing up and then he comes back and like Moira's the child and he gives Moira the kiss yeah there's something creepy about like and I know that that's part of Peter Pan's thing about the kiss and the thimble it's a bit like just leave it as a thimble I know just please just leave it like also like Wendy's watching over them as it happens I know um but then he grew up and wanted to be a father you find out and he's um and at that moment it cuts back to him and he starts to fly everywhere um I like that that was a good time yeah it's really it's a great scene and Rufia hands him his sword and he starts to crow he does the crowd that's the best fit I'm not gonna do it can you do it?
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: No I'll I'll I'll have a best I'll I'll obviously have a best shot at it hang on to me that sounded bang up that's gonna be the the promo is just that noise.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes it should be no no context to other context just you making that noise having quite a nice time of the podcast thank you for having me oh you did it again I just hope I hope each time it'll get better but it's still just the first I think the first time was better okay it's getting worse I won't ever do it again because I'm peaked a peak too soon I say that I haven't done it myself and I'm not gonna do it.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Have some line time in your room have a go all I'm saying just make filling the seven around because do you want to yell bangarang as well?
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I'm not doing that your boyfriend's just there like what the hell is she doing?
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just on this one's podcast bangarang oh because Tinkerbell's sad and you you find out like because like she knows it's about to come to an end yeah there's an explosion and suddenly she's life size yeah yeah of course your favourite moment yes when Tinkerbell becomes Julia Roberts large large life size Julia Roberts and then they kiss and it's weird and let's move on um Jack is now dressed like Hook and uh Oh yeah with that big wig he just looks absurd.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and then uh they and then that all the lost boys and Jack and and and Peter Pan come like come like battling in and uh Jack wants to stay though and Peter fights all the pirates off and then you find out Peter says the nicest thing which is Jack my happy thought was you uh which is what helped me to fly.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Which is sweet.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_02: That is sweet it's not enough Rufio has to die for Jack to want to become Oh well yeah let's get to that I would have thought that when he said that Jack would have been like oh okay but he's he sort of like he likes it it's a nice comment but he's still not fully convinced until he sees like Rufio die in his dad's arms and he's like oh okay oh they so like first of all this thud ball which is the thud butt rolls into a ball but makes himself into a ball and rolls out and knocks it knocks everyone down.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how they did that because it I have no idea it looks incredible like it looks like they've done that but obviously it looks good now.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it does it that actually does hold up um yeah I don't know what they did with that um and then Smee like runs away and starts stealing things stealing all his jewelry and stuff yeah yeah classic classic classic um and Rufio fights hook um which is very sad because um uh what but Jack realizes Peter Pan's my dad and it's such a great scene like all all of this stuff going on is so fun uh until Rufio gets stabbed by Hook and dies that's that is that is so sad.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_02: The only the is it the only death in the film?
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes uh yes I think so except for like inconsequential pirates.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes I feel it's so sad because it's um then when like so then when Pete when he eventually leaves Definit like they don't have a leader anymore Well they do they they well they get a leader.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well yeah but like Rufio's the best one like he like I know why couldn't they have I don't know if it just if it feels like Ruffie has such a hard life he like spend this whole time trying to match up Peter Pan and then and then and then dies.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they kind of gloss over it as well they kind of just like move on yeah and I don't know they don't it doesn't seem to so first first of all Peter Pan fights Hook and um and I think I think uh someone says I believe in you must be Jack that says I believe in you.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes I think it is um and then there's like the whole clocks there's all the clocks going off and then uh Peter removes Hook's wig and you see how pathetic he is yeah again obsessed with the fact that when my parents were like and the actor isn't even bald and I was like but he took his wig off and he was bald and they're like he's got another sort of bald wig on underneath and he's got hair and absolutely I could not cope.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like we haven't even spoken about Dustin Hoffman in this though.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like we haven't even spoken about it.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's odd isn't it because he's he's obviously like such a massive part of the film but he's also oddly not I don't know if he's yeah he's really but also I think he's I think he's great in it.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_02: He's so good in it.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's commits completely yeah and it could be really cringy.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually like so close to being cringy that I'm sure people will find it cringy but I think it's like perfect level of like I'm not in a kid's film I am Captain Hook and that's what I am yeah he's fully committed to the role and it really works.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you I I always forget it's him I always forget it's him which is so rare not not for him I mean it's always it's always it's rare when people are playing a character I forget it's actually them.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's especially when there's someone as famous and as well known as just Northern Yeah.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're like they're like oh let's just leave him he's just a mean old man and then I wrote up no he's not just a mean old man he killed Rufio what what what's the the daughter says like he's just a mean old man who have a mommy that's something it's like very astute but he has murdered he's a he's a murderer.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah he's murdered a 15 year old boy yeah and also just like as well lives on an island with loads of like fight just fighting boys little children all the time.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and kidnaps two children.
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah um but he he like gets uh the crocodile like comes crashing down it's like a crocodile statue sort of thing it's like made out of wood and it comes crashing down and eats him.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think I didn't understand the significance of the crocodile and the clocks and stuff.
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_02: That yeah that would make sense if you weren't a Peter Pan fan that they didn't you didn't really understand what was going on there.
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but it's weird how when you're a child you just sort of go yeah he doesn't like clocks okay I'm on board like he doesn't like clocks I don't know why but he doesn't and then when they think of it's like oh yeah he's the things fall on him so he's dead whereas when you're when I'm older I was like oh I never really I I really yeah didn't get because it's the obviously the crocodile saw the clock and so it frightens him because yeah and it's the whole thing of time as well he doesn't want time to change.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah god wow I didn't even think of that which is why he's smashing all the clocks yes I just thought you didn't like clocks again this is a real yeah I don't think I get the film's very I was like the man really hates clocks.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah that makes sense but they they they they go to fly home and um they leave Peter's like just leave me give leave me for like five minutes I'll uh you go on ahead and he uh he goes to like give one of the new one of the lost boys the leadership role and he gives it to Thud Butt.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes that is not which like makes sense because it's like Thud Butt the little boy and like we don't know the others yes it has to be him but also I just don't feel like he I think he's great but I don't I don't know if he's gonna be the best leader.
• 1:23:26
  SPEAKER_02: He's no we need a Rufio character but Rufio We either need a Rufio character or or to say to them you can all be your own leader.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of was hoping for that yeah and actually I thought that is what happened and then when he gave it to me was like sick cruel um because he also like he he goes up to like each of them but like kind of like no kind of teases them yeah no like that's actually pretty dramatic if you're gonna do it just say it they don't need just create more competition for these orphan boys that have no parents but um so Peter gets the kids are at home uh and Peter wakes up in the park yes for some reason mashed up and like it's like he's a drunk that's like yeah woken up in a park just had a rough night out and that's when you see Smee as the cleaner the window cleaner yeah which then I always have been like sorry which is like I've always been like um oh it's a dream yeah yeah um but then but then they continue it.
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah so then it's not is it um so he climbed up he climbed up the window he climbs up through the the to the window and he like he says like oh I told you never leave the window and uh sorry I told you never close this window or something like that.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah just like um and then he gets back he gives uh the guy back his marbles uh what's his name Tun Toodles Tundle What is his name tobles whatever it is he gives he gets back his he gets back his marbles.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Toodles I Toodles yeah okay he gets he gets like the marbles and and that that character's like oh I'm finally I'm gonna f and he's got to fly away.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes yeah he goes back he goes back to Neverland look that's very nice that had to happen he wasn't he was it wasn't just world he'd be better for that now he's just gonna be in the oldest man in that world in Neverland yeah the old yeah there's one old man and all the lot of this and I'm sure that'll be fine.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that's true because all of the hooks like cronies aren't gonna be there as well yeah um and then then we get your favourite line do you want to say it again next adventure in this life is to have your life correct so then then it's the end of the film.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:26:09
  SPEAKER_00: One of the greatest quotes that I've ever remembered stuck with me all these years.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_00: What is the actual quote again?
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_00: To live would be an awfully big adventure it's consistently much better than all the ones that I'm doing yeah it's nice isn't it it's it's a nice ending because also it's a nice film.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's not really any other option the other option is that it brings the Lost Boys to London and then they all like become bankers like you don't want to see that and then they kiss his children.
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and then they all get off with yeah his children and then God then the cycle just never breaks so it's good that he's broken that creepy cycle yeah um but it's a nice film.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I I I really I think it still holds up like I I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as they say it is.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_00: No not at all also I don't think it's like apart from those two creepy scenes it's not like it's not like a problematic film as well.
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like it it's just fun.
• 1:27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Also yeah it's for kids so if I was a kid now watching that I I it doesn't look it doesn't look as as shit as I thought it would look as well because it's not I know for CGI that is dated.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Not like actual when you build an actual set like that it doesn't date because it's just it's exactly there's only one bit of CGI which is him flying to Neverland and that's the only bit you're fine.
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's three seconds it's fine.
• 1:27:37
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of like yeah I've almost like forgotten that but yeah because also the the the like you say the the shadow stuff is so nice.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Yeah um yeah I I I'm really glad that I rewatched it because I I was kind of worried and I get worried when I rewatch lots of things because you kind of things get ruined the second time round when you watch it with a a more a more sort of cynical yeah And that just made me feel like a kid again, which was actually nice.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And also every reviewer is wrong.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_02: They really are wrong.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the reviews did say something, like it's it said something along the lines of like um none of the none of the things that they set up will make sense to kids, and that's why it's a detriment to it.
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_02: But like you said, then you said like um you didn't understand the clock stuff and you didn't understand this the crocodile stuff and you were still fine with it, you just went along with it.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so like obviously it doesn't matter.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, it doesn't that sort of only matters to adults.
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like kids do not, as long as there's like a very simple through line that is very clear, which it is, all of the other stuff is kind of very much though by the by, you know, like and and there is so much, yeah, there's so much stuff going on, there's so many like subplots, and yeah, like different you care about so many you care about so many of the characters, and I think that is a part of it that is quite important.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas it because in a lot of kids' films you'll care about maybe like the main character and maybe one other person, but the rest of them are just sort of ciphers, they're sort of like very nothing.
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas this was like you cared about the Lost Boys, you cared about Jack, and also the daughter, even though the daughter wasn't that interesting, but when you're actually watching, you're like, well, I hope she doesn't die.
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you do care about Robin Williams' character in Peter Robin Williams' character, Peter Pan.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no, Peter Bar Baring.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird that it's called Hook.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about Hook at all.
• 1:29:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's about it is very much I suppose they it's just it's a better name than Peter Pan, because that would be very boring.
• 1:29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now it would be called Pan, and it would be that other film that you know the other one they did recently.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:29:51
  SPEAKER_02: Which is also a much worse name than Hook.
• 1:29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's true.
• 1:29:54
  SPEAKER_00: But as well, I think the mark of it being a good film is that it's they obviously did like Finding Neverland, which was about a different element of Peter Pan, but in terms of like approaching Peter Pan as a character, I think that's the best I feel like that's the best approach of it.
• 1:30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Whether or not like it was the greatest execution of it, I think that's the best idea.
• 1:30:14
  SPEAKER_00: He is a man grown up, so you can see that all of that.
• 1:30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can't think of a more better way to present that character in an interesting way than that, other than just to have him as Peter Pan, which is fine, but that's been done a million times.
• 1:30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, I just I'm I'm gonna I'm refusing to read any of the actual reviews because they'll make me too angry.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_02: I read them, they're it's the stupidest reviews, and I don't want to read them again.
• 1:30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, do you have any final thoughts on on Hook before we move on to the final segment?
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Final thoughts on Hook.
• 1:30:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, just great, just great, and I wished that uh Tinkerball hadn't got big or was Julia Roberts.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well yeah, like yeah, although she could be fine as Ju as Julia Roberts and just not got big and snogged it.
• 1:31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh right.
• 1:31:07
  SPEAKER_00: She's fine as like I guess as like a I I suppose, but like they can't but yeah, that's no no kissing, please.
• 1:31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the final segment is um what is a movie that you uh hate that is loved by uh critics?
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really difficult because I um because I forgot.
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Just like you were like you were saying about everyone forgets.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've I've I have got one though, because I have Oh you've actually got one.
• 1:31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I recently I'm just trying to remember because I recently watched something.
• 1:31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um No Country for Old Men.
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 1:31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because I think with the Cohen brothers, I like them when they're uh funny and like when they're oh when they're not so uh speculative, rambling, and it's all about like a state of mind.
• 1:32:07
  SPEAKER_00: I found it really l over long, and also I found it really boring, and I was really disappointed in myself and angry that I found it boring because I was like, this is supposed to be one of their greatest films.
• 1:32:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was a very decorated film, and I love everyone in it.
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I found like the ending to be really like anticlimactic and like nothing-y, and nothing built to a satisfying enough conclusion.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, has he just been hit by a car?
• 1:32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what's happening that is that what we're doing now?
• 1:32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Great, and then it finished, and it was like, oh for fuck's sake.
• 1:32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I know that it's all in the journey and it's all very much, and then I was talking to someone afterwards, um, and they were like, oh no, I didn't like it either.
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh good, I'm allowed to not like it.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I went through a long period of time being like, Yes, I I I'm wrong if there's a film everyone else likes that I hate.
• 1:32:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, unfortunately, I did hate it because I was so angry.
• 1:33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure if I watched it now with like a an awareness that I didn't like it the first time around it, maybe I would be perfectly surprised.
• 1:33:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure there's a lot to recommend it, but I just couldn't be arsed with it.
• 1:33:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, I'm I'm actually quite I'm done.
• 1:33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Apologies.
• 1:33:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, I I really like it, but I get why people hate you as well.
• 1:33:19
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've spoken to quite a few people that hate you.
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh good, okay.
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just me.
• 1:33:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think the Cone Brothers are such like a uh critic critic's darling sort of, you know, you can't sort of say you don't like them.
• 1:33:30
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be like, oh yes, their best work is their most long work.
• 1:33:36
  SPEAKER_02: They love doing that, like uh those like endings that you're supposed to work out for yourself and like Yes, which sometimes can be very good.
• 1:33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Have you seen Enemy?
• 1:33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Enemy, no.
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's with Jake Gyllenhaal, and he plays like a it's like a double, oh, it's a really good director, I can't remember.
• 1:33:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's like um he plays uh as a guy who see who finds like a his doppelganger and it's like that.
• 1:34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a similar thing in the sense, nothing to oh no country, old man, and I won't ruin it because you haven't seen it, but it is worth a watch because it's brilliant.
• 1:34:09
  SPEAKER_00: But it's one of those songs it's brilliant, but it's one of those films that when you finish watching it and you're like, What was what?
• 1:34:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you read all the stuff, you're like, okay, it's like a metaphor about it was about capitalism.
• 1:34:22
  SPEAKER_00: What was it about?
• 1:34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and there's so many different theories, and you can't actually get to the well, I couldn't find the theory that made me feel that that was the point of the film, so I'll never really know.
• 1:34:34
  SPEAKER_00: And but occasionally I get really annoyed about that, but sometimes it is quite nice to like works for yourself.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I do appreciate it when it's done in a way that I think is arty rather than all we've sort of forgotten, and then and I've we'll just leave it open, probably.
• 1:34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, great.
• 1:34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, so uh let's end the podcast there.
• 1:34:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh do you have any um anything you want to plug?
• 1:34:58
  SPEAKER_02: How can we find you online?
• 1:34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh sure.
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm very on the You've got lots at the moment.
• 1:35:03
  SPEAKER_02: You've got lots going on at the moment.
• 1:35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've got some some business.
• 1:35:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm doing um, so I'm I'm on Twitter and Instagram at Stevie M, but the S is a five.
• 1:35:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's very non-SEO friendly, and no one can ever find it.
• 1:35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's on S, it's a five, I'm sorry.
• 1:35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm on Twitch as well, and every Thursday I do a Twitch show, which is like an online book club where me and a guest make up a book and uh talk about it, and it's really fun.
• 1:35:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's only an hour long.
• 1:35:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's twitch.tv forward slash CVMS, also a five for I have a again really I really doubled down on it.
• 1:35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I have a podcast called Nobody Panic, which is like a self-help podcast about how to do various things each week, which it was with me and another comedian called Tessa Coates.
• 1:35:46
  SPEAKER_00: But other than that, very much just sort of sitting around.
• 1:35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like us all.
• 1:35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like us all we're all sitting, we're all sitting around, we're all trying to get things done.
• 1:35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to get things done while not being able to do anything.
• 1:35:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're doing.
• 1:35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, can't wait for the next month.
• 1:36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me neither.
• 1:36:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be or it'll just be the same.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 1:36:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna get very into Twitch, I feel like.
• 1:36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a good that's a good that's a good distraction, isn't it?
• 1:36:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice.
• 1:36:17
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, thanks so much for doing this, Stevie.
• 1:36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, very welcome.
• 1:36:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was really fun.
• 1:36:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was really fun to have an excuse to watch hook again because I probably would never have rewatched it because there's so many new films to watch that why would I watch what I've seen 40 times as a child?
• 1:36:29
  SPEAKER_02: But it was And you have a I keep bringing this up, you have a giant DVD collection.
• 1:36:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have a giant Blu-ray collection.
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Blu-ray collection.
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Please.
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's 2020.
• 1:36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Also, it um I must stress that is my boyfriend.
• 1:36:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really me.
• 1:36:44
  SPEAKER_00: I um he has we've got a lock up, not joking, we've got a lock up nearby with because he was in the house and we moved into like a flat.
• 1:36:52
  SPEAKER_00: He uh has uh like six more boxes like this big, full of like hundreds of them.
• 1:36:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know most of them aren't open.
• 1:37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did notice that when you put you put a couple of pictures up before, and I'm like, those are all still in there wrapping.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, we'll watch them for the future, but then like some of them the the weirdest one was like, yeah, we watched like The Martian in the Cinnabon.
• 1:37:16
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, it was a bit slow, a bit baggy, and then he bought the director's cart, and I was like maybe this is gonna be better.
• 1:37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what you do, but yeah, so many.
• 1:37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's always I can't re-watch anything because we've always got to be moving forward, it's always food.
• 1:37:32
  SPEAKER_02: I used to have a giant DVD collection, and then I stopped when Blu-ray came in.
• 1:37:37
  SPEAKER_02: And now I just have I don't know what I think they're in my parents' loft.
• 1:37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't I think I've got rid of them, I think it was just streaming, but he's obsessed with like the sound quality.
• 1:37:46
  SPEAKER_00: He's like the sound quality is not as good.
• 1:37:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I guess it maybe isn't, but I'm fine, I don't care as much.
• 1:37:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna notice.
• 1:37:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, he does notice.
• 1:37:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have to say he's like this is Dolby Atmos.
• 1:37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, okay.
• 1:38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh cool.
• 1:38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but yeah, thanks so much for doing it, Stevie.
• 1:38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute joy, thank you for having me.
• 1:38:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's the end of the podcast.
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_02: You can find me on Twitter with the username at YCove or at Yannis Cove on Instagram.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Please remember to rate and review us on iTunes if you enjoyed this, so I can end up making more.
• 1:38:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll see you next week for more movies that critics got roll.