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Can You REALLY Build a CERTIFIED Business Without Proper GOVERNANCE and Leadership? · Business Roundtable

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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I
0:34
Speaker 1: am David Carr, your host, a founder of Steward your Business,
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Speaker 1: and I have a brand new guest this week. Super
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Speaker 1: excited to have Jasmine Hurly on with us. Jasmine has
0:45
Speaker 1: a wealth of knowledge and experience. I'm gonna let her
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Speaker 1: share a lot about her background and how she got
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Speaker 1: started in being a lawyer providing legal counsel. And I thought,
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Speaker 1: you know, coming having you on Jasmine this today, there's
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Speaker 1: a lot of things that business owners I found struggle
1:02
Speaker 1: with and we're going to get into this today kind
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Speaker 1: of from getting certified to getting capital, getting started, and
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Speaker 1: so I felt like you have such a wealth of experience.
1:09
Speaker 1: We're so glad to have you on the podcast. Welcome
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Speaker 1: to the Business Roundtable.
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Speaker 2: Awesome, thanks for having me, David.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely now, Jasmine, you and I met through one of
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Speaker 1: our networking groups, Success Champions Network, which I really appreciate
1:22
Speaker 1: the B to B space, and I would love to
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Speaker 1: have you share with our listeners your background because you
1:28
Speaker 1: and I met previously one on one. We've had some
1:31
Speaker 1: we call virtual coffees if you will and share your journey.
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Speaker 3: As you know from really you.
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Speaker 1: I love your background working, going to the military, working
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Speaker 1: for other firms, and now you've created your own firm
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Speaker 1: here at JAGE Legal and kind of guide us a
1:48
Speaker 1: little bit about your background and what got you to
1:50
Speaker 1: here where you are today.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so long, long road, but I like to say
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Speaker 2: that you know, definitely a breadth of experience and most
2:00
Speaker 2: of us do you know, we we have these building
2:03
Speaker 2: these key building blocks, but everything that we do there's
2:06
Speaker 2: something that we learn. So at every state, it's something
2:09
Speaker 2: we can bring forward to the next stage. So you know,
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Speaker 2: I don't come from a family of lawyers. I am
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Speaker 2: a first generation attorney. I'm a first generation post graduate
2:19
Speaker 2: out of my immediate family, the only one to go
2:22
Speaker 2: to college. I graduated from the United States Military Academy,
2:26
Speaker 2: served our country as a military police officer, deployed to Iraq,
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Speaker 2: and you know, building blocks there for just having some
2:35
Speaker 2: of the stick to itiveness and hardheadedness, saying like I
2:41
Speaker 2: could do this too, and not realizing just how hard
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Speaker 2: some things can be, right, and so taking that forward.
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Speaker 2: Leaving the military, I worked for an industrial cleaning company
2:54
Speaker 2: here in the Columbus area, and you know, decided at
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Speaker 2: one point, look, I want to do something else. I've
3:01
Speaker 2: always wanted to be an attorney. It was a you know,
3:03
Speaker 2: as a childhood. As a child, I said, I saw
3:06
Speaker 2: jag and that was one of the things that really
3:08
Speaker 2: informed me joining the military. It's like, oh, yeah, I
3:11
Speaker 2: could do that too, I could be a jag. And
3:12
Speaker 2: then realizing, you know, it's not actually solving mysteries, it's
3:19
Speaker 2: like legal work. It's fun. I felt like military being
3:24
Speaker 2: a military police officer was much more fun, right. But
3:28
Speaker 2: then moving into law school, I loved it. I absolutely
3:32
Speaker 2: loved it. I loved the fact that I was able
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Speaker 2: to help people solve their problems. When I went to
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Speaker 2: law school, I thought, oh, military police, I'm going to
3:42
Speaker 2: do criminal law. No, absolutely, not no business in criminal
3:47
Speaker 2: law whatsoever. But was looking at intellectual property, trademarks, copyrights,
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Speaker 2: and also looking at helping folks with their business going
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Speaker 2: into corporate law. So where I practiced for the last
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Speaker 2: you know, seven and a half years, I practiced in
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Speaker 2: larger law firms here in the central Ohio area, helping
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Speaker 2: start their business, helping folks navigate the corporate issues that
4:13
Speaker 2: pop up for folks that are you know, small, medium,
4:16
Speaker 2: larger businesses, and you know, a couple of years ago,
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Speaker 2: I said, you know what, I think, I want to
4:22
Speaker 2: do this on my own. I want to see if
4:24
Speaker 2: this is something I can do. And also I think
4:26
Speaker 2: there's a group of folks that are I don't I
4:29
Speaker 2: don't feel like they're disenfranchised. But what they're looking for,
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Speaker 2: the support they're looking for is exactly at the big
4:39
Speaker 2: law price point.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: They don't have the money to be spending thousands and
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Speaker 2: thousands of dollars, first of all, to fix the problems
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Speaker 2: that pop out or to be proactive in preventing some
4:52
Speaker 2: of those issues. So where JH Legal was born, looking
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Speaker 2: at ways to positively posture small to medium businesses, startups
5:03
Speaker 2: and nonprofits that are not only in the larger metropolitan
5:07
Speaker 2: areas you're in Ohio, but the rural areas as well.
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Speaker 2: Live in a rural area in Ohio to south of Columbus,
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Speaker 2: and there are people starting businesses here too, So being
5:20
Speaker 2: able to support them and support their journey in a
5:23
Speaker 2: way that is meaningful, but also to break the bank. Right,
5:28
Speaker 2: there's so much runway you have of money, and you know,
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Speaker 2: having that unexpected spend for a legal issue can be
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Speaker 2: really really frustrating and concerning and could break your business.
5:44
Speaker 2: We have to see many businesses, even larger businesses, they
5:49
Speaker 2: end up having to lay off the majority of their
5:51
Speaker 2: workforce to accommodate a legal issue that has popped up
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Speaker 2: and has pushed into litigation. So you know, I try
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Speaker 2: to help folks avoid that as much as possible.
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Speaker 1: Well, I so appreciate that. I really hear that coming
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Speaker 1: across you. You're looking and finding those you know, underserved
6:14
Speaker 1: founders as people out there that need help. And particularly
6:16
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I work with a women on
6:19
Speaker 1: a small business here in California, and I see, you know,
6:25
Speaker 1: I had a gentleman on a few podcasts ago, Matt.
6:28
Speaker 1: We're talking about he's in the recruiting space, but helping
6:31
Speaker 1: veteran own businesses hire the right people, get everything set up.
6:35
Speaker 1: And so I think I really appreciate that's why you're
6:38
Speaker 1: here on the podcast. And I say every week on
6:40
Speaker 1: the Business round Table, I said, we have folks on
6:42
Speaker 1: the podcast here that can help you your resource so
6:45
Speaker 1: you don't have to just go out on your own.
6:47
Speaker 1: And I want them, you know, people to hear as
6:49
Speaker 1: many different voices where they're at. And I know you're
6:52
Speaker 1: based in Ohio, but depending on what the circumstances is
6:54
Speaker 1: you can help them in other places as well. So
6:56
Speaker 1: just you know, know, we're gonna put all your information
6:58
Speaker 1: in the in the podcast notes here, Jasmine, so people
7:01
Speaker 1: can reach out to you, so very very important. Can
7:04
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about just kind of that
7:07
Speaker 1: like that startup structure and kind of legal readiness that
7:10
Speaker 1: we should be looking at as a founder, Like you said,
7:12
Speaker 1: I'm starting with my business, what are the things like
7:16
Speaker 1: what are you hearing from you know, folks as they're
7:18
Speaker 1: reaching out to you, or the things that they maybe
7:20
Speaker 1: should be asking when they're like starting that foundation.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there are a couple, uh, couple things that
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Speaker 2: pop out that are pretty consistent. I just have to
7:28
Speaker 2: meet with a contact yesterday and she said, yeah, when
7:32
Speaker 2: I set up my business, I used legal Zoom and
7:36
Speaker 2: now I'm paying them a monthly fee for them to
7:40
Speaker 2: be my statutory agent. Or they did something wrong, you know.
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Speaker 2: So you know, folks are looking for ways to either
7:47
Speaker 2: di I Y right or do something affordably. Well, just
7:52
Speaker 2: affordable doesn't mean it's going to be done the right
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Speaker 2: way right. It doesn't mean that it is going to
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Speaker 2: be something that serves you in the long run. You
8:00
Speaker 2: may end up paying them a ton of money over
8:03
Speaker 2: the course of months or years for something that you
8:06
Speaker 2: can do yourself for free. Right, or you find a
8:11
Speaker 2: service provider that's local. Right. If something's wrong, they're not
8:16
Speaker 2: going to fix it, right. So those who are going
8:19
Speaker 2: to legal zoom rocket lawyer those sorts of things, I
8:23
Speaker 2: understand the affordability, but that does not mean that it's
8:25
Speaker 2: going to put you in a positive posture. For folks
8:32
Speaker 2: who don't have any documents, right, I'd rather have documents
8:37
Speaker 2: as opposed to not having. You know the appropriate governing
8:40
Speaker 2: documents that you're supposed to have, right, making sure that
8:42
Speaker 2: you have your certificate of incorporation, you have your bylaws,
8:46
Speaker 2: you have your operating agreement. Depending upon your structure, making
8:50
Speaker 2: sure you have those in place. If you are a
8:55
Speaker 2: you know, if you're a solo preneur, if you're a
8:58
Speaker 2: sole member of an l it's easier to get away
9:03
Speaker 2: with not having that. It becomes more dangerous if you're
9:07
Speaker 2: in a partnership. Right, if you have one person more
9:11
Speaker 2: than one, we're working on things and all of a sudden,
9:14
Speaker 2: what you agreed to yesterday is not where you're sitting
9:17
Speaker 2: a year from now. So having those documents in place
9:21
Speaker 2: and having those agreements, having them signed. Those are some
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Speaker 2: pitfalls that I'm seeing for folks as well, and that's
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Speaker 2: usually where I'm meeting some of these folks. More often
9:32
Speaker 2: than not, I'm not meeting them with, Hey, I have
9:35
Speaker 2: an idea. I want to start from scratch. I'm meeting
9:38
Speaker 2: them six months a year down the line where things
9:41
Speaker 2: have already been done and we need to fix them.
9:48
Speaker 2: We need to adjust. Founders fell out how we have
9:53
Speaker 2: to initiate a business divorce in some way, which makes
9:57
Speaker 2: it much more difficult. You don't have documents that govern
10:01
Speaker 2: how to act during that business divorce. Well, people, you know,
10:06
Speaker 2: when they before they get into the business marriage. Yeah,
10:10
Speaker 2: you know, that's often where I'm meeting some folks and
10:13
Speaker 2: trying to figure out, how do we make this a
10:16
Speaker 2: you know, how do we make this as painless as possible?
10:20
Speaker 2: We adjust and create that positive posture for them.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, that's really important. I totally hear where
10:27
Speaker 1: you're getting at. I think if people can be a
10:30
Speaker 1: little more proactive in these things instead of going back
10:32
Speaker 1: and trying to fix it and do cleanup.
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Speaker 3: It's more expensive that way too.
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Speaker 1: I'm sure that's doing cleanup right instead of you've got
10:38
Speaker 1: it right from the beg get go right.
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Speaker 3: And I think I.
10:43
Speaker 1: See this in working with teams, you know, not legally,
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Speaker 1: but looking at teams and setting up role descriptions.
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Speaker 3: And how we're organizing our company, and it's not clear.
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Speaker 1: And so if you if you just kind of get going,
10:56
Speaker 1: I get it to a three, you're want to get going,
10:58
Speaker 1: but taking that time to plan and prepare to go
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Speaker 1: through and not just kind of band aid it if
11:05
Speaker 1: you will, but actually do it more proactively leading Really
11:09
Speaker 1: it's not just up putting a legal structure, but it's
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Speaker 1: how do you lead well and address these things so
11:14
Speaker 1: that you're not opening yourself up. I think one of
11:17
Speaker 1: the things I would be curious about is particularly those
11:20
Speaker 1: folks that you know, it's one thing if it's fortunate
11:23
Speaker 1: if you can bootstrap this and do it yourself financially,
11:26
Speaker 1: but if you're like you said, partnerships or you're looking
11:28
Speaker 1: to get funding. Let's just say, like I want to
11:30
Speaker 1: go to a bank eventually, I want to find, you know,
11:33
Speaker 1: get myself set up. Are you setting yourself up so
11:36
Speaker 1: it's easy for people to want to invest and give
11:38
Speaker 1: you money, or you're making it really hard for them
11:41
Speaker 1: to like, I don't know, you know, you know, could
11:44
Speaker 1: you talk anything a little about getting funded or just
11:47
Speaker 1: kind of or the certification, like getting these things in place,
11:49
Speaker 1: so it makes it easier for one people want to
11:52
Speaker 1: work with you versus you know, making sometimes more difficult.
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Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, And you know, different different aspects apply
12:01
Speaker 2: to different structures your business structure. If your small business,
12:06
Speaker 2: you know, you're engaging in more institutional funding as opposed
12:10
Speaker 2: to the startups where you know, you're working with investors,
12:14
Speaker 2: venture capital firms, private equity, where what they're looking for
12:19
Speaker 2: the standard is a little bit more buttoned up, as
12:22
Speaker 2: opposed to you know, if you're just going to the bank,
12:25
Speaker 2: you want to make sure you have your governing documents
12:28
Speaker 2: you have or you know, you have your resolutions approving
12:32
Speaker 2: who can you know, do do the banking And I
12:36
Speaker 2: like that, whereas you know, it may need to be
12:39
Speaker 2: a little bit more buttoned up for you know, for startups.
12:45
Speaker 2: And you mentioned certification, so I want to I.
12:47
Speaker 1: Want to talk about certification.
12:50
Speaker 2: So one of the areas where I sit is working
12:54
Speaker 2: with you mentioned underserved founders. Those are folks who are
12:57
Speaker 2: historically that may not be something that that you know
13:00
Speaker 2: exists in the future, and I would hope that in
13:02
Speaker 2: the future it doesn't exist, right, but historically have been
13:06
Speaker 2: underserved in small business and those folks who are minorities,
13:12
Speaker 2: those folks who are economically disadvantage, women, veterans, and in
13:17
Speaker 2: the state of Ohio, they also look at folks who
13:20
Speaker 2: are coming from the Appalachian region as well as you know,
13:24
Speaker 2: economically disadvantage, which is you know, it's something that most
13:28
Speaker 2: folks don't don't realize right where you are, where you
13:32
Speaker 2: sit in the country could also be considered as a
13:35
Speaker 2: historically underserved part of America. So where where I particularly
13:41
Speaker 2: sit does not fall in that realm. But we have
13:45
Speaker 2: counties here in Ohio where you know, our small business
13:48
Speaker 2: owners do qualify as underserved, and those certifications do open
13:55
Speaker 2: doors for folks not just for funding, but opportunities as well,
14:01
Speaker 2: whether it is contracting opportunities, so being able to bid
14:06
Speaker 2: or engage in the bidding process for contracts that are
14:10
Speaker 2: on the municipal, the state, or the federal level. We're
14:15
Speaker 2: also working and engaging in supplier diversity programs for Fortune
14:20
Speaker 2: five hundred companies and here in the state of Ohio,
14:25
Speaker 2: they have funding set asides for women owned and minority
14:31
Speaker 2: owned businesses, those businesses that are certified with the state,
14:35
Speaker 2: and there a lot of states also have similar programs.
14:40
Speaker 2: There are certification platforms like we Bank NMSDC where they
14:45
Speaker 2: not only provide you know, those funding opportunities or not
14:48
Speaker 2: the funding, the contracting opportunities, but they also provide additional
14:52
Speaker 2: support for those certified businesses in the form of training
14:59
Speaker 2: in the forum of showcasing their their their goods and
15:03
Speaker 2: their services and matchmaking opportunities to be able to connect
15:08
Speaker 2: them with those actual businesses that are and that are
15:11
Speaker 2: looking for those diverse suppliers. So as myself as a
15:16
Speaker 2: woman owned business, a veteran owned, veteran owned business, and
15:19
Speaker 2: a minority owned business, you know, I I fell into this, uh,
15:24
Speaker 2: this type of work. It wasn't something where I engaged
15:27
Speaker 2: in it directly. It just happened to kind of sit
15:30
Speaker 2: in my lap in you know, as I was working
15:33
Speaker 2: with in my first law firm, we had a case
15:36
Speaker 2: come through and so engaging with that and then realizing, oh,
15:41
Speaker 2: I'm already in a veteran space, a veteran owner, a
15:44
Speaker 2: business owner space. I'm already as as a veteran, as
15:48
Speaker 2: a woman, as a minority. You know, I'm already navigating
15:51
Speaker 2: these spaces where there are other business owners that are
15:53
Speaker 2: trying to navigate as well. So it has been helpful
15:58
Speaker 2: to me already knowing how to navigate that space. Yes,
16:01
Speaker 2: a new business owner myself, so now I know how
16:04
Speaker 2: to better navigate as well. You know, in the certifications,
16:08
Speaker 2: and I will say I'm remiss in obtaining my certifications.
16:12
Speaker 2: That's something where it's on my list of to dos
16:16
Speaker 2: for my business because it does open doors. Folks want
16:21
Speaker 2: business you know with you know, these underserved businesses, So
16:27
Speaker 2: make it easier. And that's that's what I tell folks.
16:29
Speaker 2: A lot of folks are reallyuntant to obtain certifications because
16:33
Speaker 2: they don't deserve it or interesting they are not worthy
16:39
Speaker 2: of it. There are folks that want to do business
16:42
Speaker 2: with you. Why would you make it harder right to
16:46
Speaker 2: find you and do business with you.
16:48
Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's kind of like you know, you're
16:50
Speaker 1: you're handicapping yourself. If this is the this is the
16:53
Speaker 1: playing field that we're on, so to speak, it would
16:56
Speaker 1: be like, you know, I agree with you. I was
16:59
Speaker 1: gonna asked that question. Why do you think you know,
17:01
Speaker 1: certification is underutilized at times they skip it because you
17:05
Speaker 1: just said, like maybe they feel they don't deserve it
17:08
Speaker 1: or but I think you know, it is, it is there.
17:12
Speaker 1: It's it's you know, like you said, maybe it won't
17:14
Speaker 1: be there forever, but for now it is and we're
17:16
Speaker 1: trying to you know, so I think, you know, use
17:19
Speaker 1: that and help again. Ultimately, it's helping you, like I said,
17:22
Speaker 1: build a relationship. But I think having worked with a
17:25
Speaker 1: woman on a small business, minority owned business as well
17:27
Speaker 1: previous company, and in fact, I just had her on
17:29
Speaker 1: my podcast recently, but I accept in her company like
17:34
Speaker 1: what you said jetlesmine earlier, like as it helped me
17:37
Speaker 1: as an employee be a part of do more than
17:39
Speaker 1: I would have had otherwise.
17:40
Speaker 3: So it wasn't just a business owner themselves.
17:42
Speaker 1: It's like who else are you having coming being a
17:44
Speaker 1: part of your organization that you get to help. But
17:46
Speaker 1: I think that's a little bit about it, at least
17:48
Speaker 1: for me, and I'm very thankful for that.
17:51
Speaker 3: But I do think.
17:54
Speaker 1: It is depending on that you mentioned, there's different groups
17:57
Speaker 1: that you know, look at these things and here I'm
18:00
Speaker 1: in here in California, so we have definitely certain set
18:03
Speaker 1: asides on a federal level and also on the state
18:07
Speaker 1: level in different agencies like we have our caltrans which
18:11
Speaker 1: is our transportation agency, uh, and other ones I do.
18:15
Speaker 1: I've worked with this owners though they can be a
18:17
Speaker 1: little daunting sometimes to go through thisification process.
18:21
Speaker 3: You know.
18:22
Speaker 2: And yeah, so you know, as we're talking about where
18:26
Speaker 2: I usually step into these these situations, there there are
18:31
Speaker 2: two kind of entry points for where where I'm engaged.
18:34
Speaker 2: More often than not, I'm engaged after they uh, you know,
18:38
Speaker 2: these these business owners have received rejection, right, They've received
18:42
Speaker 2: a rejection and they said, what but I'm a woman
18:45
Speaker 2: owned business, I'm a minority own business. And they're not
18:49
Speaker 2: realizing that there are two prongs to it ownership, which
18:53
Speaker 2: a lot of folks tend to get pretty easy. Right,
18:57
Speaker 2: say it's a you know, a woman owned business, husband
19:00
Speaker 2: and wife. Wife owns fifty one percent, husband owns forty nine.
19:05
Speaker 2: You know, she's she's the head of the business. Right
19:08
Speaker 2: prong to it is the control. And that's usually where
19:12
Speaker 2: I step in. I help folks tell their story because
19:17
Speaker 2: they either didn't tell their story correctly, you know, they
19:22
Speaker 2: point out, no, you know, while the husband and wife
19:25
Speaker 2: both work in the business. You know, the wife definitely
19:28
Speaker 2: has the authority, she has the control, She's the one
19:31
Speaker 2: who's all the decisions and you know it is ultimately
19:37
Speaker 2: doing what they're doing. And also she has experience. She
19:40
Speaker 2: may not have experience doing this specific thing, but she
19:44
Speaker 2: has experience in X y Z, which also roll into
19:47
Speaker 2: the business. As a business owner, you know, you're wearing
19:50
Speaker 2: all of the hats, right, not just an attorney. I'm
19:53
Speaker 2: also you know, accounts, receivable, accounts, payable in person, the
19:58
Speaker 2: social media manager, all of that, all of the you know,
20:04
Speaker 2: hr all of it, right, So you know, taking that
20:08
Speaker 2: and telling that story about how all of that is
20:12
Speaker 2: what goes into what they're doing. So working with folks
20:16
Speaker 2: who have received a rejection and understanding how to navigate
20:19
Speaker 2: that and you know, working through how do they address that?
20:24
Speaker 2: Can it be addressed? And you know what the timing
20:27
Speaker 2: is because there are some dependent upon the certified authority,
20:32
Speaker 2: there are ways to navigate that. And then folks who
20:37
Speaker 2: would just say, hey, I'm a well known business, here's
20:40
Speaker 2: I want to seek certification open right, So counseling folks
20:46
Speaker 2: on not just what certifications, but understanding what their true
20:51
Speaker 2: purpose for the certification is, yes, being able to help
20:56
Speaker 2: them create a strategy for that certification and obtaining those certifications.
21:01
Speaker 2: There are certain certifications where they're free, usually state in
21:05
Speaker 2: municipal level certifications, particularly here in Ohio. They tend to
21:09
Speaker 2: be free certifications. You don't need to pay a fee.
21:12
Speaker 2: If you're working with a nonprofit UH certifying authority like
21:17
Speaker 2: weibank or n ms d C or and NOVOBA, there
21:22
Speaker 2: is a fee based off of the amount of you know,
21:25
Speaker 2: your amount of revenue that you're bringing. You know, so
21:30
Speaker 2: understanding where your objectives lie the federal is also free.
21:34
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that's that's what a free certification,
21:37
Speaker 2: understanding what your objectives are and then layering those certifications appropriately.
21:45
Speaker 2: Part of that is doing an audit, right, just doing
21:48
Speaker 2: an audit of your business in your the way that
21:52
Speaker 2: you are set up, the way that you're formed, the
21:55
Speaker 2: way that you're incorporated, and unders making sure that we
21:58
Speaker 2: are pinpointing any potential issues. Again, it goes back to
22:04
Speaker 2: the ownership and the control right. Very often people say, oh,
22:07
Speaker 2: fifty one percent controlled, but they only see the fifty
22:10
Speaker 2: one percent owned. They don't they control. And that's where yeah,
22:17
Speaker 2: that's where you have some issues. So sending them up
22:21
Speaker 2: for success based off of what their what their their
22:27
Speaker 2: objectives are. And it's become a little bit more difficult
22:30
Speaker 2: over the last couple of years because there have been
22:33
Speaker 2: some pretty i would say significant, but there have been
22:36
Speaker 2: some some changes to the definition of control some goods,
22:41
Speaker 2: making a little bit more difficult for for folks in
22:45
Speaker 2: the way that they run their business. So I always
22:48
Speaker 2: tell folks, you know, before you even start firing off
22:51
Speaker 2: those certifications, let's have a conversation to figure out, you know,
22:56
Speaker 2: what your structure looks like. It's it's much more difficult
23:01
Speaker 2: once you've received a rejection because there usually are time
23:03
Speaker 2: limits that you have to wait, and then going through
23:08
Speaker 2: and restructuring your business so that it makes you competitive
23:13
Speaker 2: makes it that much more expensive as opposed to on
23:16
Speaker 2: the back end, you know, we can we can truly
23:18
Speaker 2: reflect what your intent for your business is and then
23:23
Speaker 2: tell the story from there, and it's a lot easier
23:26
Speaker 2: for me to sniff out those folks that are are
23:29
Speaker 2: and it doesn't happen as often. Right, Oh, there's structuring
23:33
Speaker 2: this so they can meet, you know, and get over
23:39
Speaker 2: I think I'm only I've only seen that once and
23:43
Speaker 2: in counseling that particular person. This was sever many, many
23:47
Speaker 2: years ago, and it counselors. I said, look, if that's
23:49
Speaker 2: your intent, you know, and if the if your wife
23:53
Speaker 2: is really going to truly be involved in this business,
23:58
Speaker 2: give up more control. This is going to continue to fail,
24:03
Speaker 2: you know, and and you know the spirit of it
24:05
Speaker 2: is not being met in what you're doing, so nice try.
24:13
Speaker 2: I don't like to think that I'm gatekeeping, but I'm
24:15
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to provide some some honest counsel
24:18
Speaker 2: absolutely in these situations, because you better believe that when
24:23
Speaker 2: you get to that certifying authority, they are not idiots.
24:26
Speaker 2: They have seen something under the sun. Us out pretty
24:30
Speaker 2: quickly is not mean.
24:33
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up what you mentioned because I
24:35
Speaker 1: think the ownership, like I said, is fairly easy. I
24:38
Speaker 1: I you know, I get that one gets pretty but
24:40
Speaker 1: the control one, I think is important because I'll give
24:43
Speaker 1: you this scenario or just an example for the listeners here.
24:46
Speaker 1: I'm based here in California. One of our utility providers,
24:50
Speaker 1: you know, Southern Californias, and they're big one. They're big
24:52
Speaker 1: on university suppliers and making sure we have all that,
24:56
Speaker 1: and and they had one in there and they did
25:00
Speaker 1: an audit of all of them. They actually audit them
25:02
Speaker 1: to see what the control was and ultimately there wasn't
25:06
Speaker 1: the control that they said it was, and the company
25:09
Speaker 1: lost were stripped of there there's the woman owned status
25:14
Speaker 1: and that caused a ripple effect of employees and other
25:17
Speaker 1: people that had to then now find other work because
25:20
Speaker 1: that work that was coming through was contingent upon it
25:23
Speaker 1: being controlled by a woman owned business. And it was
25:26
Speaker 1: like it wasn't like they gave you a grace period.
25:28
Speaker 1: It was like that's like that's it today.
25:30
Speaker 3: Boom.
25:31
Speaker 1: You don't get like a week, two weeks, a month
25:33
Speaker 1: of it's like we're turning off the faucet.
25:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you've not met the criteria, you know, and
25:39
Speaker 2: it really depends on you know, those particular set asides.
25:45
Speaker 2: Why why would you put those set asides in any
25:48
Speaker 2: other type of your supplier diversity in jeopardy by allowing
25:53
Speaker 2: this to happen. Essentially, it's it's fraud, right yep. You
25:57
Speaker 2: say something exists and it does not right and and
26:02
Speaker 2: you know, so I would say for folks you know
26:05
Speaker 2: that are looking for certification, are thinking about you know,
26:08
Speaker 2: diverse business certification, engaging in in participating in diverse supplier programs.
26:15
Speaker 2: You know, take a hard look at your documents, make
26:18
Speaker 2: sure you understand control, Understand what certification program you're looking
26:24
Speaker 2: to engage in, and understanding what they define as control
26:28
Speaker 2: because it does vary, and it has changed a couple
26:33
Speaker 2: of federal level programs where you know, what's considered control
26:39
Speaker 2: has it has a little bit more leeway given to
26:42
Speaker 2: to reflect actual situations, particularly for women owned businesses UH
26:49
Speaker 2: and for veteran owned businesses specifically Service disabled veteran owned
26:52
Speaker 2: small business sdv O SPS. State level programs have changed
26:58
Speaker 2: here in the state of Ohio, they had they had
27:00
Speaker 2: a change about structure, what they certified for structure. You know,
27:05
Speaker 2: a couple couple of years ago, the the City of
27:08
Speaker 2: Columbus changed, you know, the the control some of their
27:12
Speaker 2: control provisions as well. So making sure you understand that,
27:16
Speaker 2: understand that, you know, make sure that your governance, your
27:20
Speaker 2: actual governance documents, your operating agreement, your certificate certificate of incorporation,
27:26
Speaker 2: follow and meet that cricteria happy with that if you
27:30
Speaker 2: haves or concerns right and then you stick to that right,
27:36
Speaker 2: You do not want the egg on your face by
27:38
Speaker 2: stating that you are a certified women owned, woman owned business,
27:43
Speaker 2: certified minority owned, veteran owned, service disabled veteran owned small
27:48
Speaker 2: business and then realizing that you have there's creep and
27:51
Speaker 2: that's really what happens, right, It's a creep in your
27:55
Speaker 2: process and procedure. So, you know, processes and procedure is big,
28:00
Speaker 2: you know in business. If you don't have it, you
28:02
Speaker 2: don't have those systems, things can fall apart pretty quickly.
28:06
Speaker 2: So making sure that you understand that you have systems
28:09
Speaker 2: in place to audit yourself. Yeah, sure that you can.
28:13
Speaker 2: You know you're following and doing what you said, you
28:16
Speaker 2: said that you are doing, and that you know you're
28:19
Speaker 2: not going outside of those control programmers.
28:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you brought up a couple of things that
28:24
Speaker 1: came to mind as you're talking about this. Uh, it's
28:27
Speaker 1: one the control and then I know you also look
28:29
Speaker 1: at you know, contracts, and so it's one thing to
28:31
Speaker 1: get on the certified side and then look at what
28:33
Speaker 1: are the terms of the contract that you're pursuing and
28:36
Speaker 1: are you fulfilling that too, because oftentimes it is are
28:40
Speaker 1: you doing as a set aside, particularly for a business,
28:42
Speaker 1: are you doing the majority of the work or are
28:45
Speaker 1: you outsourcing that perhaps to independent contractors under those do
28:50
Speaker 1: they have the same It may work if they have
28:52
Speaker 1: the same certification, right if they're also you know, a
28:55
Speaker 1: set it can roll up and say, hey, we're still
28:57
Speaker 1: meeting the overall threshold. But if you're if they're doing
28:59
Speaker 1: the majority of that work and they're aren't, they aren't
29:02
Speaker 1: that diversity as a supplier and that the goal was
29:04
Speaker 1: to you as a company, not just be a pastor
29:07
Speaker 1: to another company. You know, you know, looking at that right,
29:10
Speaker 1: looking at the contract, what are the terms of the contract,
29:12
Speaker 1: what's the intent of the contract? And are you living
29:15
Speaker 1: are you are you in alignment with that or could
29:18
Speaker 1: they call you out and say no, this isn't actually
29:20
Speaker 1: what we envisioned.
29:22
Speaker 2: Right yeah, and it again, like you said, it flows through,
29:25
Speaker 2: So you need to make sure you know you're you're
29:28
Speaker 2: meeting the intent of the program as well as the letter.
29:36
Speaker 2: I mean, let's be honest. Once it's once it's in
29:38
Speaker 2: in a contract, once it's in you know the terms
29:40
Speaker 2: of your contract. You know, going outside of that makes
29:44
Speaker 2: it a much much much more difficult.
29:47
Speaker 1: For you to argue right right, Oh man, there's so
29:53
Speaker 1: many good things here we're covering, Jasmine, I know, and
29:55
Speaker 1: I want to there's a couple before we wrap up
29:58
Speaker 1: the podcast, I just want to get through a few
29:59
Speaker 1: more questions because I mean, we're gonna have to be
30:01
Speaker 1: come back. But what you know, as we're talking about, okay,
30:04
Speaker 1: getting through the certification process and kind of prepping just
30:07
Speaker 1: having legal confidence, you know, you know, what are some
30:12
Speaker 1: things that we should do, other things that maybe we
30:14
Speaker 1: should we should be thinking about to help build just
30:18
Speaker 1: our confidence, not just compliance, but making sure that we're
30:20
Speaker 1: feeling like we're prepped prepared. What are you seeing like
30:24
Speaker 1: maybe red flags that aren't prepared for growth, Maybe it's
30:28
Speaker 1: a dealing with like an early agreement or nondisclosure agreement,
30:32
Speaker 1: or what are the things that you're seeing like to
30:34
Speaker 1: build that confidence, Like, Hey, I've got some things in place,
30:36
Speaker 1: I'm getting there. You know what do you what do
30:39
Speaker 1: you see there?
30:40
Speaker 3: Yeah?
30:40
Speaker 2: Well, I would say a couple of things. You know, first, uh,
30:45
Speaker 2: not having your governance documents in place, right, I'm harping
30:49
Speaker 2: on that, but it is a building block, right, It
30:52
Speaker 2: is a cornerstone for your biness. Making sure that you
30:55
Speaker 2: have your governance documents in place. Whatever your structure is,
31:00
Speaker 2: is having that that you know, your those by laws,
31:03
Speaker 2: that operating agreement, making sure that you have those governance
31:06
Speaker 2: documents and any additional documents that governs the relationship you
31:10
Speaker 2: have with you know, yourself, the other owners in your business. Right,
31:16
Speaker 2: So if there are other founders and you decided on
31:20
Speaker 2: some things and it's not reflected in your by laws
31:23
Speaker 2: or your certificate of incorporation, you need to make sure
31:25
Speaker 2: you have either sureholders agreement, a founder's agreement, something that says, hey,
31:31
Speaker 2: here's how we agreed that we are going to operate
31:34
Speaker 2: in this particular relationship. Right. A lot of the conversations
31:39
Speaker 2: that I have with starters or we had a founder
31:41
Speaker 2: and then turns out they wanted to bounce because we're
31:45
Speaker 2: founders and we're not getting paid and they want to
31:47
Speaker 2: get paid. Hey, it's a lot more difficult to have
31:51
Speaker 2: that divorce.
31:51
Speaker 1: Right.
31:53
Speaker 2: Some other things that I see, you know, not really
31:57
Speaker 2: understanding the initial agreements that they are signing with vendors,
32:03
Speaker 2: with buyers, with service providers. Understand the key elements of those,
32:10
Speaker 2: the key terms of those those agreements. Understand what you're
32:14
Speaker 2: supposed to do when it goes wrong? Right, understand the
32:17
Speaker 2: termination If somebody is not doing what they're supposed to
32:20
Speaker 2: do in your your relationship and your agreement, maybe you
32:25
Speaker 2: understand what your obligations are to either give them notice
32:30
Speaker 2: about the issues that you're seeing. How you're supposed to
32:32
Speaker 2: give them notice? And then what do you get to
32:35
Speaker 2: do If you feel like they've reached the contract they
32:37
Speaker 2: promise something and they didn't provide it, then how do
32:40
Speaker 2: you terminate that contract? That doesn't you uh say I'm
32:45
Speaker 2: out and bounce right a creation fee? If you do
32:50
Speaker 2: not provide them with a certain day's note, a certain
32:53
Speaker 2: day's notice, there could be an ability for that particular
32:59
Speaker 2: service provider of vendor to cure the issue. So you
33:02
Speaker 2: have to give them a chance to fix what we're
33:05
Speaker 2: wrong before you need the agreement.
33:08
Speaker 1: Right.
33:09
Speaker 2: Yes, just had an issue with a client where they
33:11
Speaker 2: went through that and they were on the hope for
33:14
Speaker 2: an early termination fee because they decided that they were
33:18
Speaker 2: just going to terminate.
33:20
Speaker 3: Right yep.
33:21
Speaker 2: If you have a problem with a vendor, if you
33:23
Speaker 2: have a problem with the service provider, you let them
33:25
Speaker 2: know that you have this problem, and you you tried
33:28
Speaker 2: to either figure it out, work through it, or you
33:31
Speaker 2: understand what your obligations are, you know, for that termination.
33:35
Speaker 2: I would say the third thing, and this is, you know,
33:38
Speaker 2: next to works with Underserve founders. It's it's near and
33:41
Speaker 2: dear passion of mine is intellectual property. Not understanding the
33:47
Speaker 2: types of intellectual property that a business has. Every business
33:51
Speaker 2: has intellectual property from the get go right. The marketing
33:56
Speaker 2: that you're putting out there, whether you are you know
33:59
Speaker 2: you are engaging and using you know, types different types
34:03
Speaker 2: of of marketing software, different types of social media, you know,
34:08
Speaker 2: the thought leadership that you are creating about your industry,
34:14
Speaker 2: working with things like Canva. You know, that's that's one
34:17
Speaker 2: where folks are like, yeah, I don't have any marketing.
34:19
Speaker 2: I was like, you just lacked a really awesome pamphlet
34:23
Speaker 2: together that you sent me, and you put a lot
34:28
Speaker 2: of effort into thinking about that. I highly doubt you
34:30
Speaker 2: just pulled that off a Canva and then slap over
34:33
Speaker 2: to me. You know it really, uh, the advent of
34:37
Speaker 2: generative AI, it's making it a lot easier for folks
34:41
Speaker 2: to be able to create in a lot of property
34:44
Speaker 2: and create these these types of things. So understanding one
34:49
Speaker 2: what you're creating to how to protect it in three
34:52
Speaker 2: when it's not protected, when it is something where you
34:56
Speaker 2: know you may be operating under a license for that.
35:01
Speaker 2: I always tell folks, please don't try to uh please
35:05
Speaker 2: don't try to register clip art. Don't. There are some
35:10
Speaker 2: there are some some sources out there where they are
35:13
Speaker 2: open source, right, you can use those to create you know,
35:19
Speaker 2: protectable items for your business. But going on a Microsoft
35:25
Speaker 2: word and you know clipbart and things like that, and
35:28
Speaker 2: then I dislimit that as as your logo like please,
35:32
Speaker 2: oh gosh no, or you know there are folks who
35:36
Speaker 2: they engage with upwork uh fiver, those types of you know,
35:43
Speaker 2: those types of platforms to have somebody create that for them.
35:48
Speaker 2: Making sure that that person right is first important. Finding
35:51
Speaker 2: their rights that they've created that to you so that
35:55
Speaker 2: you can then take it and you know, use it
35:58
Speaker 2: and protect it in the way that you need to
35:59
Speaker 2: be able to for your business, and that they're not
36:03
Speaker 2: using clip art and that's under you know, a third
36:08
Speaker 2: party license that would prevent you later on down the
36:11
Speaker 2: road from you know, taking that intellectual property and being
36:14
Speaker 2: able to protect it in the way that you need to.
36:16
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.
36:17
Speaker 1: Wow, you've hit a lot of great topics here, and
36:20
Speaker 1: I know we can go deeper, but what I big
36:23
Speaker 1: takeaway I'm hearing and I would love you to share
36:26
Speaker 1: as we're wrapping up the podcast here, Jasmine your kind
36:28
Speaker 1: of final takeaways and thoughts. But what I'm hearing is,
36:31
Speaker 1: you know, it's really important how I'm showing up as
36:34
Speaker 1: a business owner, being real about where I'm at and
36:38
Speaker 1: looking outside of myself, getting help, not being siloed, if
36:41
Speaker 1: you will, and in really being incorporating this legal review
36:47
Speaker 1: just as I would other professional services to help me
36:51
Speaker 1: and create a growth engine in my business so that
36:53
Speaker 1: I'm not being shut down, but I'm actually, you know,
36:56
Speaker 1: being able to multiply and have the effect that you know.
36:59
Speaker 1: And so I just appreciate you coming on and sharing
37:02
Speaker 1: with our listeners. Some of these saw some of these
37:04
Speaker 1: things they should be thinking about in their journey, and
37:07
Speaker 1: we're not here. If you're if you're you know, a year,
37:10
Speaker 1: two years, three or five years in whatever, and you're like, man,
37:13
Speaker 1: I haven't neglected this area. And yeah it has maybe
37:15
Speaker 1: bitten me yet, but it could tomorrow the next day.
37:18
Speaker 3: Maybe you know, take.
37:19
Speaker 1: Take a moment, like you said, pause and and and
37:23
Speaker 1: here's Jasmine is another resource that you can reach out
37:26
Speaker 1: to connected and we're gonna have all your information in
37:29
Speaker 1: the show notes, Jasmine. But just kind of final thoughts
37:32
Speaker 1: of sharing with our audience, just key takeaways that you
37:36
Speaker 1: really want them to leave listening to this this episode
37:39
Speaker 1: of the Business Roundtable.
37:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, make sure you've got your your governance documents in place, right, Uh,
37:45
Speaker 2: review them, whether it's annually, I annually review them. Make
37:50
Speaker 2: sure that you are still operating in that way and
37:55
Speaker 2: looks intellectual property. Like I said, looking way that you
38:00
Speaker 2: are engaging in your intellectual property and you know, think
38:05
Speaker 2: about your strategy on how to protect that, whether it's
38:07
Speaker 2: under NBA's undernotices. And if you have any questions about
38:13
Speaker 2: either of those things that I talked about, right, I'm
38:16
Speaker 2: here to answer questions. And if I don't know the answer,
38:19
Speaker 2: I'm a big proponent. Let's find you the person that
38:21
Speaker 2: has that answer, because you deserve that as a business owner.
38:26
Speaker 2: You don't have to wait for a legal issue to
38:30
Speaker 2: get your answer.
38:32
Speaker 3: Yes.
38:32
Speaker 1: Yes, Thank you so much, Jasmine for joining us on
38:35
Speaker 1: the Business round Table podcast. Thank you all for listening
38:38
Speaker 1: and subscribing. Leave us your comments. We'll make sure that
38:41
Speaker 1: Jasmine gets them. We'll of course love your reviews, subscribing
38:47
Speaker 1: and sharing this with others. Again, Jasmine, wonderful to have
38:50
Speaker 1: you on the podcast. Thank you for joining us.
38:52
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
38:53
Speaker 1: Duvid all right, thanks everybody until next time, take care,
38:56
Speaker 1: b well. Appreciate you being here
38:57
Speaker 3: With us on the Business round Table podcast