Latest / TWO GUYS IN TIES / #3 - How to Find a Career You Actually Love

Transcript

#3 - How to Find a Career You Actually Love · TWO GUYS IN TIES

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, welcome back, Mitch.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, welcome back.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: We got a lot of great listeners from our first couple of episodes, and it was actually really cool to see a couple of the responses and comments I heard.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I got a few phone calls from people, and people learned a lot.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we appreciate the feedback.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Keep delivering your feedback to us.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Please ask questions.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: We had a couple of questions that came up too.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: One was really cool.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: It came from a retired military person who just graduated.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: They went back to school to get their MBA and is now in a career transition, was asking some questions.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: He might be somebody we end up helping out on the journey you and I talked about, Mitch.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Rick Reagan, how do people uh get a hold of us?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Tell them again how they can reach us with questions, comments, or specific questions about their career, job search, any of that.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have an email.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: It is twoguysintiespod at gmail.com.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Feel free to send anything over, questions, comments, whatever.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also have an Instagram, which is at two guysinties.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you can DM, follow, follow along.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: And actually do it because I think a big reason we're doing this is to create value and help people who are lost in transition, lost in their job search.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: So the more we can actually help real people in their in their journey and use it as an example to help other listeners.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's really a big goal of why we started this.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's funny, I was thinking about this.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: No journey, every journey feels unique because people are going through their own journey and for them it's unique.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: But how many times have we heard the same exact story from people, whether it's going through trying to get promoted in their own company, trying to find opportunity for growth in their own company, or trying to find a job.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: How many times have we heard the same story?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost always the same stuff.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it probably breaks down to 10 different examples, but some variation of it.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I think it's so great if people start to contribute with different questions or uh real-world examples, because I think a lot of it could help hundreds, if not thousands, of other people going through the same thing now.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so reach out to us.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, today I'm really excited about this.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I love talking about.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we started uh uh something years ago called Dream Job Bootcamp, and we did it in Project Activate.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's about how to find a career that you really, really love.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I always call it kind of your dream job, that job that doesn't feel like you work.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever had that, Mitch?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have that now.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: You do really?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think having a business is different though.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you get to set the agenda, you know, you're working for yourself, even though sometimes it's actually harder.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: There are days that it feels like work, let's be honest.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm working probably more than I ever have for anyone else right now, but I wake up energized by what I'm doing.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do you have the Sunday scaries?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not really.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: It ebbs and flows, but but more often than not, no.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Reagan, do you ever have the Sunday Sunday scaries?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, I used to.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: We were you were you working for me or somebody else?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: For real.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's not cool.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, really?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: How about now?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: You feel better now?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, good.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, you know it's funny.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I rarely have the Sunday scaries, especially if I've had a chance to reset, like I had a vacation or I'm feeling good about where we're at.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I get fired up, right?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like every week is almost like a new birth, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: We get to rebirth our businesses.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I just I I love for people to not have the Sunday scaries or not have that uh pit in their stomach where they know the weekend's over, they're going back to work.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's five days till Friday, you know.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what do you used to call it, Mitch, when uh when you were working for somebody else?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Going into the salt main mines?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Some of the places I work felt like that.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so let's talk about this.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: You want to dive into it?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: All right, once you start us.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think a big thing first, uh, the first action you have to take in finding your dream job is is understanding what that actually means, right?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Understanding the qualities of what you're looking for today, what you're looking for tomorrow.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think enough people actually take the time to reflect and visualize.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's really the first step.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think most people just they need a job, they need to pay their bills, they go and find a job that aligns with their skill set, but they rarely ever take that moment, even 10 years in their career, to reflect and assess and evaluate.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So how would you like I have one example?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna use it real quick.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And Reagan, you're gonna cut me off if I go too long.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: She already told me today I tell too many stories.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so she's gonna cut me off at I what's my max?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Three stories today?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, total, yeah.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Total.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So here's one.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have a company that we invested in.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, obviously, it's Lipman Nail Polish.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And a buddy of mine and I bought this company a year and a half ago.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the people that was just kind of part-timing for us while she did her job, um, she was running product development at a manufacturing company.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: She made a comment to me once as I was getting to know her that her dream was always to work for a brand and ultimately to run a brand.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so that kind of clued me in.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: I said, So if you were running this, would that kind of be a dream come true?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Yeah, that would be exactly what I want to do.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And now she runs that company, she runs that brand.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I will tell you though, there's been talk about this.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Scott Galloway talks about this.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: He says, Don't just go after your dream job.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Go after something you can effectively do.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like line up your skills and experience with what you think you want to do.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because if what you think you want to do doesn't align with your skills and experience, you might fail.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: You might die.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: You might just, you know, not make it work.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you think about that, Mitch?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: I agree in part because I think most skills can be learned, especially for people early on in your career.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're a salesperson and you love talking to people, you're probably not meant to be an accountant.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you're probably not meant to be a software developer.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I do think, and I think in some ways, we tend as people to navigate towards things we do well.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: We tend to enjoy things that come naturally to us better, right?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Things that are easy to win.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: You think of athletics, right?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: You try a bunch of sports as a kid, the things that come easy are the sports you end up doing in high school because I think you end up enjoying it more because it feels natural.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I do think there's a component of follow what naturally feels right for you.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I think in some ways, most skills can be developed.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And especially with AI, especially, you can learn a lot of things and uh offload a lot of things now.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and and even with this uh general manager we hired for this Dale Polish company, she's got incredible skills that have helped us rebrand and relaunch and reformulate our product.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Where she's light is in marketing, sales, finance.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what we've done is we've kind of supported her by bringing in resources in those areas.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think as long as you're honest with yourself about where your superpowers are and probably more importantly, where they're not.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, if you can get some level of skill set in those areas, whether it's training, you know, Reagan and I are doing a training program next week.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Reagan, what you want to tell everybody what that is?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing a Claude AI workshop.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I want to learn because right now we're rolling it out through our company.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Mitch, I don't know if you've done this, but I want to learn what we're doing.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to learn how this has changed.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've done a little bit.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I I use chat probably 20 times a day now, but that's not really using AI.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's just like a new search engine.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's elementary level.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I need to graduate.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to learn it, but you can't learn a lot of things.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll I'll share this.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: My second story, Reagan.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want to share one other thing.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's a guy that uh is trying to sell us a boat, and uh he's one of the best boat sales guys out there.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: He'll probably succeed at some point.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's actually really, really good, but he's a former Navy guy.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I asked him, he spent 20 years in the Navy.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: I said, So I can see why you're selling boats, but but tell me a little more about this.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, My happy place is on the water.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized when I saw a lot of my retired Navy buddies leaving and getting jobs in construction or getting jobs in retail or other industries, um, it was good.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was good pay.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they were able to move ahead, they were able to use their leadership skills, but they didn't love it, right?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't, it wasn't like combining their passion with their work.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say if you can combine your vocation, like your work, with your avocation, what you love doing, then it doesn't feel like work.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this guy's on the water like four or five days a week, and he loves it, and it just doesn't feel like work.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: He's also, he reminds me of you.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: When you were selling cars, you weren't selling cars.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: You were you were trying to put people into a feeling that they really wanted, and that's what he does too.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's never hard sell.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I think when I think about people I talk to in their career or in transition, a lot of times the dream job is less to do about the actual job itself and more to do with the environment that they're in.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, tell me more about that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think like you you hear the common saying, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: People don't leave jobs, they leave companies.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think most people would like their job more if they worked in the right environment.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes that's an entrepreneurial thinker at a big company where there's a lot of bureaucracy, ideas aren't really welcomed.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: You you kind of follow the script uh to keep your job, right?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: And vice versa.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: You might be a rule follower and you work for a guy like Elon Musk, you're not gonna last very long.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think a lot of it comes down to also being in an environment that aligns with your values.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, some companies give you a lot of balance and freedom, right?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people want work-life balance now.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of companies are going back to, hey, this isn't a nine to five.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: So finding the environment that's gonna match your values and what you're looking to put in and get out of that.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say if we go back to what the message here today is, which is about um, you know, how does somebody with intention figure out what a dream career would be, a career that they really love and maybe a dream job, what that would really be.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: How would you how would you tell somebody to get started?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think the first step is understanding what your vision is.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: What are you looking to achieve?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because you might not be eligible for your dream job today.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I would then look at what are the required steps to get me to that end game.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: So if my vision is to be a CEO of a company one day uh in aerospace, and I'm 10 years into my career director of operations, I'm gonna look at where can I get into the COO role?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Where can I have the opportunity to develop the skills where then the job after the job becomes that CEO job?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it all starts with vision.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of life do you want?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: What are you willing to actually give to get what you want?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And what is that dream job look like, not just now, but in 15 years, and how can you be intentional today about where you spend your time to be eligible for that dream job down the road?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I like what you're saying about the uh the operations person moving into a COO and ultimately maybe a CEO role.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of things that that I want to talk about in future podcasts about personal career development, right?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And creating stakeholders within your own company that know where you want to go and know what your career ambitions are so that they can help you get there.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there's some really good stories.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like the gal who ran Xerox 20 years ago started in, I think, accounts payable or accounts receivable, and networked within the company to build relationships and was given job after job after job in so many different departments that when it came time for picking a CEO, this is a person that knew so much about the company and literally started from the ground up.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: But she knew so many people in so many departments and was became known as kind of a fix-it person.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't know anything about this, but every role we give her, she goes in, figures it out, and fixes it.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what they did because they needed to be fixed.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things people ask me this question a lot how did I decide to get into executive search?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there's only one person I ever met in my entire career of executive search, and you know this guy who it is, who actually dreamed of being in executive search.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Who's this guy?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Michael Feingold.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Mikey, also known as Mikey.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he knew a guy, uh, when he was a buddy of his when he was in high school, whose dad was an executive search.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he told me the story, and he said he learned about the family, learned about the person.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I want to become an executive search consultant.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he took took me to coffee one day.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: He'd been with us a couple of years, and he called me up and said, or walked by my office and said, Hey, can we grab coffee?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: We ended up going out and having lunch.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he told me the whole story.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wow, that is, you're the only person with intention that ever got into our industry that I knew.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I um I found it by accident.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: But when I was looking to leave and change my job and therefore my life, because my personal life wasn't going the way I wanted it to go because I was traveling all the time.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: You don't remember this.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think you were only three.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I uh instead of looking at jobs that I thought might make me happy, I don't know if I ever told you this.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I took out a yellow pad of paper, one of those legal pads, and I started writing down the characteristics of my dream life.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are the things that I wanted in my dream life?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I restricted the urge to write down anything about any kind of job.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to understand what I was solving for, right?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: How much money did I want to make?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of relationships did I want to build?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: At what level in companies, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of um, what kind of things do I like?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like a relationship business versus a transactional business.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: I could do well in transactions, but I don't want to do transactions.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do something where I can become a trusted partner.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I like C-level relationships.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be friends with CEOs where I can help them solve their major problems, all these things.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had things that I didn't like.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I wrote down a pros and a cons, wants, not wants, or whatever.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started looking at what would give me those things.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So my intention was first to die dive into what my dream job looked like, and then to solve it, not not first, right?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's exactly what I'm talking about, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Visualize, assess, figure out where you want to go.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next step, I think, is taking the actual actions to go out and get whatever that job looks like.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, what can you do if you're in a job that's not connected to what you really want to be doing?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, give me let's let's come up with a wild, crazy ass idea example of somebody is doing X but they want to do Y, which couldn't be more polar opposite.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Any ideas, Reagan?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any ideas?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: I like the accounting and sales example.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe maybe you're an accountant and you want to do sales.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is a good one.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of sales?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Last that's where it could be interesting, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think if you want to maybe you want to get into tech sales, selling enterprise software.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and my recommendation in that sense is okay, you're an accountant.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: What can you sell to accountants?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: What can you leverage what you've learned in your expertise to be a consultant to that customer?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um we did actually a search for a client where instead of hiring engineers, they wanted to hire their end customers to be product experts to more of those end customers because they could speak from true hands-on experience in that job and how the technology related.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that might be a good example that I would think of is if you're trying to move into something like sales, for example, from accounting, find some type of connection point that you can anchor.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then ultimately, after a few years of doing that, you can sell anything because you've built the credibility to go out to the street and market yourself as a salesperson.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it reminds me, Kevin Kim did that in our own company.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, he was a in our accounting team and was we, you know, we we have a search business, and there's a bunch of recruiters and search consultants.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, hey, that looks fun.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: But he started at the ground level.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: He moved into research first and really worked his way up and became kind of a trusted partner to a number of folks.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it was easier to do internally.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is something too.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think, do you, you know, if these jobs exist internally in your own company, do you suggest people leave their company because they're already typecast as, say, an accountant, or that they try to move internally in their own company if those jobs exist?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think it really depends on the company because I think there's a lot of companies that would say you don't have the experience.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Not a lot of companies, in my opinion, value talent.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, talent's not skill set, it's who you are, it's what you're made of.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think a good salesperson could figure out accounting if they're intellectually curious enough.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think most companies value criteria, most companies hire for resume.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, if you're at one of those companies, you should probably leave.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, in my opinion, it's gonna be tough to navigate around.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if it's really big, maybe the there's a hiring manager that has a different value than that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think it's rare to find companies that really value talent as an asset to where they'll see I would rather keep you and put you somewhere else and give you this opportunity than lose you.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So let me throw something else out.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if we want to tie our vocation with our avocation, right?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Our work with our fun, could be golf, could be being a comic, right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know you've wanted to be a comic, haven't you?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've been recommended to be one.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if you wanted to, what would you do?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you wanted to be a comic.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: What would you do?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: How would you how could you kind of uh moonlight a little bit?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Mitch, why don't you tell us?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: What would you do?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: If I want to be a comic, I'd probably first take improv classes, get used to that idea because I've never done it.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then I would probably just start posting stuff on social media.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: For things like that, I feel like social media is such a tool to scale your distribution that you could become a famous comic without even doing a live show.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm picking on Reagan's family.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Your brother's a comic, he's a good comic.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Look up Tanner Amiglio if you have a chance.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's got some good stuff online, but he is funny.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen him at a bunch of shows.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: He was doing a bunch of odd jobs.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: He he's a perfect example of somebody who probably didn't know where he was really truly supposed to be, wouldn't you say?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: What was his journey?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was all over the place.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: He got an internship first through his school to work for a show, and then he started doing stand up and then got an opportunity to work for a bigger podcast, and now he has a bunch of opportunity there.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of a roundabout way to get there, and then he found that he really loves us.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: But he's always kind of been a funny guy, right?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he always has been.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So are you surprised that he's found this career calling?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's perfect for him.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: So he would have been one of the 80% of people that were probably in the wrong job.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't you say what, Mitch, what percentage of people would you say are in the wrong job?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: A job that they don't really love.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: I would say probably 70%.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: 70%.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe not 80%.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think 90, maybe, maybe 80% are in the wrong job or wrong company.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: But there's I think a lot of people we come across are pretty passionate about what they do, especially later in their career.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think more than half for sure are definitely in a place where it's probably not the thing that drives them.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So what is something that somebody, if if somebody's not sure, if they're thinking they're not in the right job, if they had to ask themselves a question to get started, you know, do you have a question that they that they should ask?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, it's the same question you talked about with the yellow pad.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's what do I want from my life?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think another thing is you could be in a job you love, but it might not align with your vision.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Then you have to make a sacrifice of can I build the life I want in this type of role?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Or do I need to find something that serves both masters?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta sometimes pick uh what you love and what you want out of your life because sometimes it's hard to have it all.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: What if you asked yourself the question, if money was no object and I could do anything I want to do, what would that be?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever done that?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Ask yourself what would that be for you?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: I thought about opening a barber shop in Sydney, Australia and cutting hair for a living or designing custom suits.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: You'd be really good at that.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: What else?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: What else would you do?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I would start a private equity firm.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would do real estate.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I love uh we're investing in real estate.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love doing it.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I actually get a real kick out of it.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the beauty is we have jobs that we can do these things as well.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of nice to be able to do our day job, build our companies, help our people, but also do a couple things on the side.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: What the thing I love is I kind of call it having a portfolio career.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think some people actually do that.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: How many people do you know?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Reagan, you're starting a portfolio career.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:14
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think nowadays with social media technology, like that's becoming a lot more normal where people have a job, but they'll have other things that they do.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: When do you leave your job to focus on your your side hustle?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really think it it's funny.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually coaching a group of entrepreneurs, and I have a guy who has a business that provides for his family and it has for 15, 20 years, and he has a new idea that he thinks could be better, but he doesn't know when to drop his current business and go all in on the other idea.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things I actually had him do was model out his cash, his reserves, his income to almost instead of guess and do it off a gut, like actually look at what do you need for the rest of this year to survive.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: What do you have?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: What can you float?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And how long can you go all in on this new idea?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And when is when do you know is it time to kind of keep this other thing going again?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but while giving it kind of a shot of taking a little bit of a risk.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's funny.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I did that when I was a banker, I always knew I wanted to buy a business.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know exactly what it would be, but I knew I needed a little bit of money.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And all I need to do was get a really good bonus one year, put that money aside, and that was gonna be a down payment.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And my first business was a dry cleaner, and I was able to buy a failed dry cleaner.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: They'd put in a couple hundred thousand, they asked for a hundred thousand, I got a forty-five thousand dollar bonus.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: I did not, I I changed my tax withholding because I knew I was gonna lose money my first year.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have hardly any taxes, and I was able to buy this thing for$40,000 down and$60,000 over five years.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And in four years, I sold it for half a million dollars.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I opened another cleaner on borrowed money because that, you know, the first one was successful.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was able to borrow money to buy the equipment for the second one.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was 100% borrowed money.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I paid that back, and in four years I sold that for a little over half a million.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: But it all started with 40 grand.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if you figure out what is that number you need and you start working for it, you can figure this thing out and you can actually bridge yourself to that whatever it is, whether it's being an entrepreneur or starting a business.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really good counsel you gave him because you know, if you don't have that roadmap and you don't have the intention, you might never pull the trigger.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's easy to take away the fear when you you make it based on the factual numbers, remove the emotion uh of the risk, but also make sure you don't put put yourself in a jam.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I like to think of this.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is gonna be sound a little morbid, but if I am on my deathbed and I'm thinking about my life, I don't want any regrets.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I want to look back and say, you know what?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I went for it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: I tried everything.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I tried everything I wanted to try, and I did what I wanted to do.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Some things failed, some things succeeded, but I got no regrets.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and one thing we know is none of us are getting out of here alive.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if I have any advice for anybody listening to this, is live a life of no regrets, right?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And go for it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: The number one way to fail is to never try.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's the best way to fail.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad you said it because I think there's a lot of people out there who probably know they're in a job they don't love, who have a business idea that they know could take off.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: And those might be the regrets they live with at 85, 90 years old.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a big part of finding your dream career is being ready to actually chase it.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, taking the leap of faith.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, even we see it with recruiting.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: We talk to people where they've been at companies 20 years and they're loyal to a company who's not loyal to them.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: They get a great offer from a company that meets every single thing they said they would dream for, and they say no.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're comfortable, they're afraid.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, security, comfort, all of those things.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: People mistake comfort for security.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and some of those people stay at companies, and a year later something happens, they get let go.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the loyalties didn't go back around.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I think a lot of it does come down to taking a leap of faith.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably the biggest aspect of finding your dream career, is being ready to take it.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I you know it's funny.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'll talk to people and I'll ask them, what is um, especially if I talk to young people, like Reagan?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking to people that are your age, that have been out of college a few years.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I hear from people, I why is stability so valued?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know why?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: At your age grab group brackets.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Stability?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they say stability.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Who says that?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I hear it from people your age.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Who?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Financial stability.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, they want job security.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I have an idea why.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's also funny because, and I hope I don't get yelled at for saying this, but that is also the generation that we see the least stability in their resumes, where they hop around every nine months to something new.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think Gen Z puts up with as much stuff as generations did before.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: That could be it.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think stability is important because that's the generation that graduated during COVID.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: So they came into an environment, their norm isn't stability.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're working from home.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're in the office, constant change, or I think they want to find somewhere where they can grow long term.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think the other thing is they've had friends that work at these great companies that look amazing, like Meta or, you know, Microsoft or, you know, whatever.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: You pick a company.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Every company lays off these days.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's so crazy that even companies that are succeeding and doing well, they get ahead of their skis when it comes to employees and they lay off.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so look at look at the federal government, they've never laid off.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: They lay off.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: They had Doge, you know, Department of Government Efficiency that Elon was running for a while, and that was laying off people.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So even in the government, there wasn't stability.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one thing I try to tell people is you're valuing the wrong thing.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you can value something that you can really take pleasure from, that you can really be good at, you'll have the stability.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody lays off somebody who's really, really good unless that company goes away to, you know, altogether.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're really good and that company goes away or your department goes away, you'll find another job for sure.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think people should value what they love and then show up every day killing it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing, and I know we're we're running out of time, I want to leave this with everybody.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Mitch, you're gonna have some parting parting thoughts, I'm sure too, is start with intention, write down the things that you're passionate about, write down if you had all the money, but you still needed to work because you wanted to work and you wanted to be contributing to your family and contributing to society, and money wasn't an object, one money wasn't an issue.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: What would you do?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if you answer that question with something that you can go out and actually get, it won't feel like work.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: More often than not, it won't feel like work.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, by the way, you might be wrong and you might realize this wasn't my dream.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, make a change, but at least you went for it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's create a habit of going for things that you think you're gonna love versus going for stability and a job and a paycheck.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's my parting shot, Mitch.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Parting shot?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Can agree with you more.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like we talked about, start with intention.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Actually do it though.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, don't just think about it, don't conceptualize.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: Take the time, get out that yellow notepad, write down the characteristics of your dream life, the things that would bring you fulfillment on a daily basis, and define what that job could be and define maybe a few, sometimes just more than one type of job that can fulfill those things.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna continue talking on this about how to not just conceptualize it, but actually go out and get it.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I have can I do one more parting shot?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, one more parting shot.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine you're on your deathbed, you're still coherent, but you're thinking back.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna have regrets?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if the answer is yes, do something about it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: But to Mitch's point, you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Put a plan in place.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, anything can happen in two years.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Give yourself a couple years and do it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have a friend who always wanted to be a money manager, and he was an HR guy.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And his money manager said to him, I can get you into money management in two years.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to retire as an HR guy.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can actually do this in a couple of years.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he's been a money manager for the last 20 years because of that.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: This was fun.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Mitch, this has been great.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Reagan, awesome.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Good discussion.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, come back next week.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have another Two Guys and Ties.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have another great episode.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget, email us, reach us.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Reagan, once again, how do you do that?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Email us at two guysandtiespod at gmail.com.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what's the other way?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: How can you message us?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can DM us on Instagram at Two Guys and Ties.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: All right, awesome.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out, give us your thoughts, give us your questions, give us your comments, and also if somebody wants help, Mitch and I are going to look at over the next month.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna take some applicants and see who we can support by coaching them each of us once a week and helping them on their journey.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to help you.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everyone.