Latest / CinemaHounds - A Lorehounds Podcast / Pressure (2026) - Eagle Eyes Oneshot w/Marilyn R. Pukkila

Transcript

Pressure (2026) - Eagle Eyes Oneshot w/Marilyn R. Pukkila · CinemaHounds - A Lorehounds Podcast

0:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't.
0:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You got the floor.
0:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody here likes me very much.
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I realize that, and that's all right.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't expect you to like me, but I do want you to listen to me.
0:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I could stand here and provide you with yet more data, places that are metric reading, the when the speeds, the new upper air sun is that we've collated, but none of it is going to make a lack of difference.
0:27
[SPEAKER_00]: because you want to believe what kind of Chris just said that it's going to be safe to learn normally tomorrow.
0:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what you believe.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But everything that he's just said is pure adult raises or shit.
0:43
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can muster all the tanks and soldiers and ships that you like, you can assemble a greatest armada that ever that was.
0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you invade tomorrow,
0:56
[SPEAKER_00]: away because the storms that I'm talking about are real and the jet stream that's propelling them towards the Normandy coast is real and the wrath of nature is real.
1:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to Eagle Eyes, a Laura Hound's podcast in our coverage of the 20 26 movie pressure.
1:35
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm your host David and in the briefing room with me today as always rocking that black turtle next sweater.
1:43
[SPEAKER_03]: As only our British friends can actually do is community co-host Stewart
1:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm good thanks David.
1:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd love to be able to say that I'm being a swath and sophisticated and sat here with my blacktail on that column.
1:59
[SPEAKER_03]: But I've been my sweats and music.
2:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just not used to say that's what it is David, but I'm all good.
2:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, if you look on the eagle eyes icon, then you can see a representation of an action man rocking a black turtle mix, wet her which is still.
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And sort of see a blackish kind of thing in the South Island.
2:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, maybe you just think I needed it today.
2:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and joining us for this technically our first eagle eyes publicly available podcast is our favorite token scholar and host of the Rings and Rituals podcast, Marilyn.
2:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Marilyn, how are you?
2:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to be here, David, so what a Quaker is doing in the middle of a podcast collection.
2:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't interesting nothing to contemplate, but I have things to say.
2:51
[SPEAKER_03]: You always have things to say and where to go.
2:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I do, don't I?
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I'm not that close.
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Good thing there's a podcast medium for you to enjoy.
3:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And as I said, this is our first, this is sort of our inaugural,
3:04
[SPEAKER_03]: public episode for the eagle eyes imprint on the lorhounds thing and Marilyn you have this strange habit of popping up as first in various projects that we have going on So it's an honor to have you here and we're very glad in fact Thank you.
3:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that pressure would have landed in our lineup for the season if you had not been in the production channels on the discord server
3:27
[SPEAKER_03]: sort of installing the virtues of the movie.
3:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of missed this movie as it passed by.
3:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when we decided to cover it, I was like, wow, it's really grateful for that.
3:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So, well, thank you.
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that explains a lot of why I'm here.
3:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there's substance to this movie.
3:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a war about, it's a war about, excuse me, it's a film about war.
3:49
[SPEAKER_02]: There we go.
3:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, yes, I can speak, I can speak English.
3:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a film about war, but it is unlike any war film I've ever seen or heard of.
3:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Gotcha.
3:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is a good moment to do a quick spoiler and content morning.
4:06
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to be discussing the movie in full after the first break.
4:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to do our sort of usual one-shot style where we talk about the context for the movie, some of the production details will give our
4:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Then we'll take a commercial break and then we'll actually get it dig into the details of the movie.
4:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you haven't seen the movie yet, then stick around and maybe we'll convince you that this is something to check out.
4:31
[SPEAKER_03]: But otherwise, Stu, we are going to be talking about what might be a subject that is not for everyone.
4:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to make sure that folks understand what we're going to be sort of getting into?
4:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so, you know, obviously this is a film about the Second World War, so it's a film very much from the lens of the Allies, so it's the UK, it's America, so it's very much through that lens, and obviously we understand that the Second World War pulled in, you know, many nations, you know, throughout the world, so it's just bear in mind that this is a film that's got drama
5:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So if it's not really your thing, don't really worry about it, but actually it's a very bloodless movie.
5:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's very much a character piece and people talking in rooms and making decisions.
5:29
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you think about it from that,
5:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a good, it's a good watch, it's a good watch, and it's a good watch.
5:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Great.
5:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And as always, we are an independent podcast, so if you are interested in what we do, and you want to show your support in your, in a position that that's available to you, then we would invite you to subscribe.
5:48
[SPEAKER_03]: We do do publicly available podcasts that are ad supported.
5:51
[SPEAKER_03]: We also have a subscriber here where you don't have to suffer through the ad.
5:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And you can also have the warm fuzzies of, you know, hey, I get a lot of value and entertainment from this group of creative folks.
6:05
[SPEAKER_03]: These folks are fun to hang with, I want to show my appreciation, then we have a couple of subscription options available for you both on Patreon and Supercast.
6:14
[SPEAKER_03]: They're basically just both subscription platforms, just some people aren't into the whole Patreon thing where others, that's just the easiest way to go.
6:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Got a couple of tiers available for you.
6:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So if that works for you, then I would invite you to check the show notes for the link tree, link in the bottom, and we try to be equitable and fair across our creative enterprises.
6:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we make sure that everyone who's participating has the option to to partake in those things.
6:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So thank you and and as always to our current subscribers.
6:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
6:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So very much.
6:44
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're interested in joining the conversation, you can do so.
6:48
[SPEAKER_03]: You can email, stew and I at eagle eyes at thelowerhounds.com.
6:53
[SPEAKER_03]: and that is the feedback email for this.
6:56
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk about our upcoming slate of projects that do and I've put together in a minute.
7:02
[SPEAKER_03]: We also have the discord where that's our community gathering space.
7:07
[SPEAKER_03]: That's where folks from all across, you know, because the lower house covers a broad range of things.
7:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And we cover a lot of movies, we cover a lot of television shows, we talk about music, we talk about books, and it's all from this lens of what is our community about, where people that are curious about things, and we want to ask.
7:29
[SPEAKER_03]: more questions and we went to follow up and understand some context a little bit more and get into the nuances of things and if you want to interact with other like-minded individuals, then join us on the Discord server and we have lots of great conversation happening, lots of channels covering all kinds of different stuff.
7:49
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a channel dedicated to the Rings and Rituals podcast, Marilyn, you want to just quickly mention season two of Rings and Rituals of which you and Dr. Sara Brown are the co-hosts of.
8:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we are definitely making a way through several episodes of already dropped as of this recording and we'll be finishing up with our own recordings first.
8:18
[SPEAKER_02]: the big advantage of all four one episodes one through four of the season three of rings of power dropping and you'll see all of us dropping too because I don't know I'm gonna cover this folks, but it's going to be
8:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I was on a well, I was on a really wonka podcast with John the other day and then we were talking off Mike and he said he's really excited for season three coverage of rings a power.
8:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So that made me very happy because he's been very busy with a bunch of life changes and so I was like, oh good, like he will be a steady, he will be the steady hand on our pillar as we navigate the complex waters of Tolken and of course your podcast.
8:56
[SPEAKER_03]: is about a post-analysis, a previous season's looking at ritual on screen, showing us what they're doing on screen, analyzing that.
9:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And then even extending that out into our as-lived lives, like what does ritual mean in our daily life?
9:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And how does that compare to what we're seeing in this
9:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we really didn't want to be one more podcast comparing what they're doing to what Tolkien did because plenty of that out there, we wanted to look at the podcast and we wanted to look at the series.
9:32
[SPEAKER_02]: on its own terms.
9:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And by using lens of ritual, we can say, okay, here's a ritual.
9:38
[SPEAKER_02]: What are they telling us about this culture and acting this ritual?
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And as we go along, we suddenly got, I think in this season too, I think there's five different morning rituals for five different cultures.
9:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Why not?
9:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
9:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned before, food is a universal world, so it's grieving and grieving and community.
9:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's kind of the flavor, if you will.
9:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we've got a few people who are really into examining and exploring the ideas around grief and what it means and so that's a really great segue.
10:10
[SPEAKER_03]: We also have the wool shift dust podcast, which is Alicia's project, and she has been covering what apparently is an amazing season of silo silo season three.
10:21
[SPEAKER_04]: It is awesome.
10:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
10:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been slow on the get.
10:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm getting there.
10:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I hear nine and ten are great.
10:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And Alicia has been.
10:31
[SPEAKER_03]: been deep in the silo down in mechanical creating an amazing companion series of podcasts for that both her and Abby, who we're going to hear from later in our feedback for this.
10:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been doing some book coverage, her and her main co-host Luke have been doing the episode to episode coverage.
10:49
[SPEAKER_03]: She even got an interview with Hugh Howie and who is Hugh Howie or what are the, oh boy, I'm going to be in trouble now.
10:59
[SPEAKER_03]: who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner, who's the showrunner
11:14
[SPEAKER_03]: We, of course, we have never mind the music, as we were talking about before Nicole, she's one of our grief experts, and her co-host Mark, and they look at music and psychology.
11:25
[SPEAKER_03]: They just had a really great episode on pushing your motivations and then talking about the song any way you want it by journey and man.
11:35
[SPEAKER_03]: That was like,
11:36
[SPEAKER_03]: big nostalgia met by the mash for me.
11:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll just hit straight to you, is there?
11:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I can I can see I can hear the song.
11:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I know exactly where everyone's.
11:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, journeys now meet it into my playlists.
11:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've been rocking out a little bit because, yeah, that's part of my age.
11:51
[SPEAKER_03]: my history as well.
11:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course, we have the Cosmere Corner, John and the fellas from the radioactive ramblers are covering the Brandon Sanderson books.
12:01
[SPEAKER_03]: On the main Laura Hound's feed, John and I just wrapped up our episode to episode coverage of Lanterns.
12:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And now John, who went from House of the Dragon to Lantern is now rolling on Division Quest with
12:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And I believe they're recording their preview around now.
12:19
[SPEAKER_03]: They're preview for the season.
12:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think John's going to get into clay face as well.
12:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So that'll be a lot of fun.
12:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And then of course, following that, we have Rings of Power coming up in November.
12:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, we do.
12:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And for fans of properly Howard of Anthony and Steve, their new season is coming along.
12:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you are on the discord, you can help shape that season.
12:43
[SPEAKER_03]: they are going to be looking at films that are pairs of films that are related in thematics.
12:53
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're not looking for a part one, part two, or a sequel to a movie.
13:00
[SPEAKER_03]: They're looking for disparate movies that share some sort of weird connection.
13:09
[SPEAKER_03]: McCabe appearing is McCabe and Mrs. Miller from 1971 and the 1980 movie one and the 1980 one movie thief again podcast or mouth
13:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, lots of fun Sub-Zero has suggested Harold and Kumar go to White Castle and the Odyssey.
13:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So, that should be Odyssey and Oh Brother, where are you?
13:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, there you go.
13:33
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to send in your suggestions to ProperlyHouard at TheLoreHounds.com and maybe that's a little too.
13:42
[SPEAKER_03]: No, don't second guess.
13:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Do not second guess your initial take.
13:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
13:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Throw that.
13:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Just send an email.
13:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
13:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And then just say, here's the two movies.
13:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And here's a theme.
13:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's the sort of loose theme ideas and then that's all you got to do, send it to properly Howard at theloorhounds.com and participate in that and definitely looking forward that season.
14:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
14:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So that all of that housekeeping out of the way.
14:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to hand it quickly over.
14:07
[SPEAKER_03]: to you, Stu, and to get us our spoiler-free conversation about the 2026 movie pressure.
14:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so let's give you the plot.
14:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're in June 1944, the invasion fleet is loaded every bit of operation overload is in place except the British weather, which
14:35
[SPEAKER_04]: No, good captain James Stag, a Scottish meteorologist, tells General Eisenhower that a storm is coming and that the current fifth of June launch will be a disaster.
14:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Eisenhower's own forecaster, Colonel Irving Quick says the opposite.
14:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Across 72 hours in our requisition country house, Eisenhower
15:02
[SPEAKER_04]: which is an inch whatever that that's an interesting plot synopsis because you kind of like thing okay but then when you actually get into the film pressure I think as you said Marilyn yes it really it really comes into it so now so that's that's that's it was just a I thought I'd raise that just because the the plot synopsis can come across as very dry but the actual content itself is fantastic
15:31
[SPEAKER_04]: context.
15:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Just to give you guys some context, this is actually the same production team as another film that dealt with a similar situation of pressure and tension and someone having to make big decisions.
15:47
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the same production team as the darkest hour.
15:50
[SPEAKER_04]: which was about Churchill just after Dunkirk.
15:55
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's definitely some thematic links going on there.
15:58
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the same production company I think, working title, St. Producers.
16:03
[SPEAKER_04]: That's quite interesting.
16:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And rather than it being as in the darkest hour, which is very much focused on Churchill in the War room and him talking to other cabinet ministers, etc.
16:15
[SPEAKER_04]: This is Eisenhower's Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force, or Schaefe.
16:22
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's the headquarters, it's a load of weather maps, but it's got the same tone, obviously a different time within the war, a different crisis, but very, very much as I said, thematically linked.
16:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Interestingly, this was released very early on in the years, but May, I think, in the States.
16:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And it took quite a while to get over here to the UK,
16:49
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's just some context there.
16:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I think in terms of significance on why, actually, this is a fantastic film to kick off eagle eyes.
17:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's banging the wheelhouse of what eagle eyes is all about.
17:06
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a film with a military context.
17:11
[SPEAKER_04]: But funny enough, it's got limited combat footage.
17:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, do I realize that we skipped over a little bit of the eagle eyes preview of next coming films and I'll just really quickly interject it to we'll cover more at the end but we're going to be talking about the 1986 movie Aliens its 40th anniversary which is really the
17:37
[SPEAKER_03]: which is a couple of gen Xers looking at military and spy content on screen and throwing lots of rocks at the screen when they get it wrong and or really put praising them a title when they get it right.
17:52
[SPEAKER_03]: But we're both nerds of that genre and so this is sort of our and aliens is our early text I think.
17:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And then next we're also going to be talking about Linus season three and slow horses season six.
18:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we got some other films that we're going to be covering, but we'll talk about those at the end of the podcast.
18:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to take too far away off to to break up your flow.
18:12
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, carry on.
18:13
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, thank you very much.
18:14
[SPEAKER_04]: That's all I'm saying.
18:15
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like it's it's a film with a bite war, but with limited combat footage.
18:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think the term is bunker cinema.
18:22
[SPEAKER_04]: where it is.
18:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I don't know.
18:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, tightly folk.
18:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, you've got things like down for which we've hit Hitler in the bunker.
18:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
18:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Darkest hour.
18:29
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's definitely a sub genre.
18:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Gotcha.
18:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is very fair to driven.
18:34
[SPEAKER_02]: That sounds familiar to me.
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I've seen another one somewhere that it's not coming to mind, but I used to know that it has a name.
18:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
18:43
[SPEAKER_04]: In this film, in particular, time and the ticking of the clock is a prime antagonist.
18:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I noticed again on a rewatch today that actually in the soundtrack, they've embedded a ticking clock at certain points.
18:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, the clock is ticking for at this entire movie.
19:01
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got 72 hours.
19:03
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got a character who's got to deliver a forecast.
19:08
[SPEAKER_04]: That is pivotal.
19:10
[SPEAKER_04]: to world history.
19:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And that decision is made once it's made, there's no way to take it back.
19:17
[SPEAKER_04]: So you've got that kind of in-built tension in there.
19:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And as I said, it is a pivotal moment.
19:22
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a pivotal moment in modern history that I don't think is widely taught to
19:39
[SPEAKER_04]: but I think it's no longer than in walking up to Eisenhower and saying
19:46
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, you're good to go.
19:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So I knew that weather and forecasting played a part within D-Day, but it was fascinating to actually have a film just go into that 72 hours and look at the look at the characters who were behind that and as Eisenhower says in the film, you know, this
20:11
[SPEAKER_04]: and it all hinges on the difficulty of dealing with where they run, you know, what the weather's going to be like over the English Channel.
20:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So, it's a really interesting from that perspective.
20:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, I mentioned, you know, this is a sub-genre, a bunker cinema.
20:27
[SPEAKER_04]: It's because you've got characters effectively trapped by their circumstances in very small rooms, but dealing with, you know,
20:40
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I want to do, Stu, I want to interrupt you really quickly there, I've been working on an audio essay about a sub genre as well that the, oh, what was the latest Ryan Gosling movie about the Space Man project, yeah, it's project camera, thank you.
21:03
[SPEAKER_03]: We're all having moments
21:05
[SPEAKER_03]: that there is a spin off genre, it's more than a trope in less than a full-blown genre, but maybe a bit of a sub-genre, or maybe it is a standalone, but of what I call the lone spaceman film.
21:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've got a list of about a dozen movies that fall into this category, and it's interesting
21:26
[SPEAKER_03]: because they actually come from a longer literary tradition in the Robinson Caruso story, which is the Robinson Odd.
21:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we have now a space version of that.
21:37
[SPEAKER_03]: So what I'm thinking would be a fun thing that we could discuss later is a bunker film genre review.
21:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe set it up as a little bit of an audio essay or something like that, where you can advance your theories in a produced audio type of way.
21:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, I just wanted to interject.
21:59
[SPEAKER_04]: There you go.
21:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Folks live on air.
22:01
[SPEAKER_03]: The podcast.
22:02
[SPEAKER_04]: We have a habit of.
22:05
[SPEAKER_04]: having the sausage machine exactly.
22:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Things pop up and if you don't catch them when they pop up, you lose them.
22:11
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
22:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I particularly appreciate your emphasis on characters, trapped in small rooms, because what's the title of this film?
22:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Pressure.
22:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Pressure.
22:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, as we get into it, it's definitely a little different explore how that title really tracks with the film.
22:31
[SPEAKER_04]: The only other thing I really want to say can actually really is that and we will go into it in more detail when we go on to the spoilers, but you know, this whole thing hinges on one man refusing to follow orthodoxy and take the easy approach.
22:48
[SPEAKER_04]: and how pivotal that approach in decision once so that's really interesting.
22:54
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll briefly go through the production details.
22:57
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got the director and editor here, Anthony Maris.
23:01
[SPEAKER_04]: The only other stuff I can think of that, that I've looked at is Hotel Mumbai.
23:06
[SPEAKER_04]: He also wrote this with David Hague.
23:09
[SPEAKER_04]: It's actually from a stage play 2014 that David Hague wrote.
23:14
[SPEAKER_04]: And in that, the writer Hague actually played Stag.
23:19
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the main character.
23:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's quite interesting.
23:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Peter Starring, we've got Andrew Scott as Stag.
23:26
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got Brendan Fraser, who is Eisenhower,
23:31
[SPEAKER_04]: he really had in habits that role, I love it.
23:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Kerry Condon, whose case MSB, Chris Mcene at who's critic, and Damian Lewis, has Bernard Montgomery.
23:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Cinematography, you've got Jamie D. Ramsey in a score by Volker Bertlumann.
23:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Production company, as I mentioned, is working title films.
23:52
[SPEAKER_04]: This was, I think, it was a $13 million production.
23:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And the last time I got to check how it was doing, it was about $20 million.
24:04
[SPEAKER_04]: It may have broken even, but I imagine, with a film like this, I mean, it's not going to have a massive marketing budget.
24:11
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not going to have hundreds of millions of dollars spent on press rounds.
24:17
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know whether,
24:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's watched its own face or not, but, um, we'll have to wait and see, um, it's a quite compact film, a hundred minutes.
24:27
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's, you know, it doesn't ask that as well.
24:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Could I will say that the marketing wise, I was not aware of this until merely a little bit installing its virtues on the discord.
24:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And I only knew about it because, uh, we saw, um, trailers for it when we were in the theater for a different film.
24:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, I didn't see any of them.
24:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't see any of them marketing.
24:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I remember it being a trailer before, obviously, the honestly, and that's why I saw it as I'm interesting.
24:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
25:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Just as a contrast, Darkest Hour was made for a comparable budget, but did a lot better commercially.
25:08
[SPEAKER_04]: So, but we'll do a one-see on that.
25:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Rains and reviews, IMDB, 7.3, Metacritic, 69,
25:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Letterboxed 3.5, so all of those is a solid, good, you know, a solid thumbs up, particularly I think 3.5 on Letterboxed.
25:28
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's really good.
25:29
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to do some analytics for those of you who listen to Lorraine's podcast.
25:34
[SPEAKER_04]: You know that we love a good analytical test.
25:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And we have a number of tests that work within the TV shows and films that we watch.
25:44
[SPEAKER_04]: So here, there's a number that we looked at a part of.
25:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think one was Lopez' test for compatibility, but this isn't real.
25:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Is the Second World War story verse?
25:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
25:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we can just skip a little test.
25:58
[SPEAKER_03]: That's to say, does something like a true detective season four fall in the true detective verse, Marilyn?
26:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
26:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I can offer an alternative here.
26:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the history test.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, because it's a film based on history, how closely do they follow the historical events?
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And this comes from all the history podcasts that I listened to.
26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, good.
26:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I did do another idea that we need for eagle eyes.
26:24
[SPEAKER_03]: We should follow up on because there's a lot of history in film and just like this film, history is compressed and taken apart and put back together.
26:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's a really important consideration.
26:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's hold that for a future development.
26:46
[SPEAKER_04]: good call.
26:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes these tests don't apply.
26:48
[SPEAKER_03]: So if they don't apply, we can just oftentimes we just skip them.
26:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
26:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And we've got the sanders and slide away for adaptation.
26:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Guess what's a stage play?
26:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Haven't had the chance to see the stage play or any filming of it.
27:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So I can't really give a score there, but I would say and I don't know what what the you all think, but it's definitely got the feel.
27:11
[SPEAKER_04]: in the film of a stage play.
27:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I can totally see how it is adapted.
27:16
[SPEAKER_04]: So I can see that.
27:19
[SPEAKER_03]: You're a bit of a theater guy yourself.
27:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I like to go and I like to go to the theater.
27:24
[SPEAKER_04]: So to shame that this one didn't come across my radar when it came out.
27:29
[SPEAKER_04]: that's your protest which is source versus screen changing again relevant because you know it's a play you've got the both the both writers who were involved in the play I've managed to I did a quick check out and because they were both involved they were the both said that
27:49
[SPEAKER_04]: they wanted to translate that feeling of the stage play and how claustrophobic they could make the stage setting into the film.
28:00
[SPEAKER_04]: So I feel it's probably got a good 60 big time.
28:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it reminds probably good on the ship you test.
28:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And obviously this one belongs to you Marilyn,
28:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I mean, one expects violence in a war film, but this one was remarkably free of it.
28:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was a climatic event which had some pretty face-on brutality, but they contextualized it.
28:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So you understood, and I almost saw it as a sort of a capsule of the total rather than giving us the mayhem and slaughter, which we see the aftermath of in the beginning.
28:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But,
28:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I guess I would put it around zero to minus two.
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it did not focus on it.
28:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It was not the center of attention at all.
28:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was minus one for me.
28:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Just because of that end, but... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying, you know, I looked at every film.
28:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, sell through the whole film, but, you know, what do you think, David?
29:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I would say in the beginning the opening, there were some opening scenes.
29:08
[SPEAKER_03]: What was that operation called, studio member?
29:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Tooch.
29:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, operation towards where
29:14
[SPEAKER_03]: you're like, oh, and then, so that sort of, I think gives it a neutral score for me, like zero.
29:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So this scale goes plus to minus, and it's both psychological and physical and body hearts, just any kind of, oh, this is just serving imagery on screen that is affecting me and and sort of,
29:37
[SPEAKER_03]: taking me out of my baseline state.
29:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm now uncomfortable, or maybe you relish those things, but it's a relative scale.
29:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So for me, it's a neutral, because it was a lot of talking.
29:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And there is a great pressure on them getting it right and the ramifications.
29:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So there is a little bit there and there.
29:57
[SPEAKER_03]: So I would say a zero for me.
30:00
[SPEAKER_04]: OK, that makes sense completely.
30:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm interested to get Alicia's take on this, because we've obviously got the Brenna Hope Homecast.
30:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And as I put it in the road, it's breaking day, come on!
30:15
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm intrigued to find out.
30:17
[SPEAKER_04]: So please, Alicia, please write in some feedback.
30:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Does this feel past the brain?
30:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope I'm test.
30:24
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'll wait and see.
30:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's a good point.
30:26
[SPEAKER_03]: We will carry for eagle eyes.
30:28
[SPEAKER_03]: We will carry feedback forward into podcasts.
30:32
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you have something that you want to say outside of this pressure podcast,
30:37
[SPEAKER_03]: The next time Stu and I record something that's on the public feeds, we will include that feedback sort of on a rolling forward basis.
30:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
30:45
[SPEAKER_04]: And the last one, and this is a new one.
30:47
[SPEAKER_04]: David and I, when we were talking about creating the Eagle Eyes podcast, we did one a scale because who doesn't want a scale?
30:54
[SPEAKER_04]: We all need a scale.
30:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And the idea we've been back and around is, is for Eagle Eyes is a reins on target scale.
31:02
[SPEAKER_04]: It's working title, we don't know whether we're going to keep it.
31:05
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, if we were going to have reins on target David, what do you think this one would sit up?
31:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And so for the the history of it, which if we have a new test that we have now yet named it figured out, this one does alter the history, we'll talk about it.
31:26
[SPEAKER_03]: But it also sounds from what I read is that it matches the play for the important beats.
31:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And it sounds like it matches the
31:35
[SPEAKER_03]: historical beats as well, so all the important things that happened in real life are synthesized in this movie.
31:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Am I going back to see this movie over and again, I'm not sure is it accurate is it well scripted acted does it get military I think really rounds on target to do as we're working this out it really should be about accuracy for on screen representation so it's not a general analysis.
32:07
[SPEAKER_03]: of the movie itself.
32:09
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the depiction of military or spy culture, life, the way things go to accuracy.
32:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I would say that this is a bull's eye on terms of how, if anything, it's a little bit on the line of the next outer grouping because there's one particular story of the assistance that I was like, I was like, I kind of like, oh, I wasn't sure if that was right, but maybe it's good.
32:39
[SPEAKER_03]: But at least in terms of the group captain and the major and and Monti being there and the field generals and ranks and uniforms and taking over of
32:50
[SPEAKER_03]: of a manor house for the command, all that, that all felt very spot on.
32:56
[SPEAKER_03]: So if anything, it's just on for me that outer ring, the first ring, as you're moving outside of the bull's eye.
33:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Mount it.
33:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and in consideration of that, I think about the incredibly detailed maps that we see.
33:13
[SPEAKER_02]: and the watching of the points, whether balloons going up, people were put in all of the data that they were crunching with no computer insight.
33:23
[SPEAKER_02]: All of that, however, it actually happened.
33:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I think was a very good portrayal of this is how complex this is.
33:30
[SPEAKER_02]: as well as all the different tensions.
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned case summary.
33:35
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some interesting history stuff about her too, which I will get into below.
33:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think, I mean, this strictly speaking from a history basis because I can't, you know, I can talk about Asian core and I can talk about some Oshay in the 14th century.
33:50
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my military knowledge right there.
33:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But that I have to leave up to you guys.
33:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
33:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, with you, David, this is, this is, yeah.
34:00
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, for me, look like in my head, I was like, this is a great costume drama.
34:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And then just nailed the nail, the look, the feel.
34:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, it was really good.
34:08
[SPEAKER_04]: There was only one bit up.
34:10
[SPEAKER_04]: I bounced on, but we'll talk about this.
34:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we'll talk about it.
34:14
[SPEAKER_04]: So all that in mind, it's time for some hot takes.
34:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think I'm going to go for you first, David, if that's okay.
34:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, goodness.
34:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
34:24
[SPEAKER_03]: the visually, I thought this film was beautiful.
34:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It was so well shot.
34:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I made big Andrew Scott fan.
34:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a complicated feelings about him in some regards of, like,
34:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
34:43
[SPEAKER_03]: There's something in a lot of his performances that are unsettling in some way, but that's also what makes him a very good actor in my opinion.
34:55
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a perfect Mario Party.
34:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I, oh, was that when was he in what's his name's Sherlock?
35:01
[SPEAKER_04]: It was at the baby.
35:02
[SPEAKER_04]: See, Ben and Dick couple boxes.
35:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he was fantastic in that.
35:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I love that series.
35:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I wonder if that's where I first encountered him.
35:13
[SPEAKER_03]: He was great in Ripley, the Netflix, the black and white Netflix that was just on a year or two ago, that was incredible.
35:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So he was, I thought, perfectly cast in this role where he's this intense brooding sort of fellow who had, there's this disquietness to him.
35:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So I thought he was a great Brendan Fraser.
35:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure, I'm still trying to come to grips with Brendan Fraser.
35:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people think Brendan Fraser is one of the greatest actors of our times.
35:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And I certainly enjoy him a lot, but I'm not sure how,
35:50
[SPEAKER_03]: far up I put him but I'm open to that conversation right so like if there's people out there that want to convince me why but I do enjoy him a lot and I'm really glad to see him back after being had had been gone absent for for so long.
36:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I think just managing his mental health relative to being a famous person.
36:10
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a very hard thing to do.
36:12
[SPEAKER_04]: He also had a serious spinal injury as well.
36:18
[SPEAKER_03]: The historical understandings, I, my daughter and I just recently watched all of a band of brothers.
36:27
[SPEAKER_03]: We were watching the Ken Burns documentary on the Roosevelt's, on Teddy and Franklin and
36:37
[SPEAKER_03]: uh, uh, uh, Eleanor, and so a lot of World War II history.
36:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So my daughter is very much into history right now.
36:46
[SPEAKER_03]: It's one of her interests in, in particular, a war history in World War II.
36:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, where did this come from?
36:52
[SPEAKER_03]: But she's interested in many things.
36:53
[SPEAKER_03]: As a 10 year old, you get to be an astronaut and the president and a firefighter and a veterinarian, all at the same time, and it's, uh, it's all perfectly wonderful.
37:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So I really enjoyed learning this aspect of it because I've been consuming a lot of other historical stuff around it.
37:13
[SPEAKER_03]: So getting really narrowing down into this room because, and Stu, we're gonna be talking a lot about this in future episodes.
37:24
[SPEAKER_03]: But what does make a military work?
37:29
[SPEAKER_03]: what actually does allow you to deploy forces into a field or to manage spies in the field, it is staff work.
37:40
[SPEAKER_03]: It is the people in these back rooms that are pouring over these maps, that are making these my new decisions, collecting, collating information, analyzing that information, passing it up the chain so that the men and women who are on the sharp end of the stick,
37:57
[SPEAKER_03]: have the best support and resources and information that they can possibly have to conduct.
38:04
[SPEAKER_03]: What is arguably some of the most intense
38:09
[SPEAKER_03]: both the most incredibly heroic things that we use human beings can do and some of the most pushing our nature into its most extreme, I guess we could say.
38:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And in some cases, we can, and again, another topic of future conversation is just war or win is conflict necessary.
38:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is it necessary?
38:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Can we get into a world where we don't need it?
38:35
[SPEAKER_03]: All of those things,
38:37
[SPEAKER_03]: this is a brilliant movie that shows us the staff work that has to happen at this other level because imagine if they went on the 5th of rather than the 6th of.
38:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
38:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, as many military scholars and many famous military people have said, it's logistics that wins wars.
38:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
38:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
38:59
[SPEAKER_04]: That's really good insight.
39:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so as a as a movie, I could see this being an Oscar contender.
39:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what it might win.
39:07
[SPEAKER_03]: We'd have to talk to some other film buffs about this and how it's tracking, but I could definitely see maybe some supportings.
39:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I could see some costuming, some set decoration stuff.
39:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe the music, I didn't really pay attention to the music, but I, you know, who knows what else is in there adapted screenplay, things like that.
39:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's going to be up for a best.
39:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know it's going to be in the best of
39:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Andrew Scott, there's an argument I think for Andrew Scott to win a best, you know, to be nominated for a best of here.
39:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's going to win any of the top line awards, but I would definitely see it taking one maybe two of the tertiary, a one, secondary or tertiary awards.
39:45
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a beautiful film.
39:47
[SPEAKER_04]: It's in a roasting story.
39:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was so glad that you brought it up, Maryland, so that we can actually have this opportunity to install its virtues.
39:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you, David.
40:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I just feel it is a wonderful historical drama done with credible accuracy on a decision point, which I'd never even thought about before.
40:11
[SPEAKER_02]: One doesn't until one's actually in the thick of it.
40:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I love to viewpoint episodes throughout of the individuals embedded in the complex and critical events and help those events in their own choices may support or hinder good outcomes.
40:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So what you were saying before David, the things that you had in your thought about.
40:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we usually hear the big names in these major world events, but in this film we see every day nameless people with headphones, headsets on their heads, trying desperately to hear what's coming in
40:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, of course, Tolkien here, such as off the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world, small hands do them because they must.
40:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the eyes of the great art elsewhere, I never thought this to see this line is referring to world wars, but I do know, because it's absolutely true, and I can see Tolkien reaching back to his own world or one experience.
41:10
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I love about there.
41:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you've been in that in, and of course, Tolkien haven't.
41:17
[SPEAKER_04]: The experiences in the First World War, I think that's fascinating.
41:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And for me, this my heart take is that it was fascinating to watch this film.
41:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And just to see the story of this man, who essentially was pivotal to the success of
41:36
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, of day day and you write, you think of the big names, you think of the landings on the beach, you think of those brave men that, you know, went down the ramp.
41:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, interestingly, Stu, if I can just interact with you, we only ever get the story of really the one beach.
41:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and maybe a second beach, but there were what five in total.
41:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, five because you have a Canadian that the Brits and the US as well.
42:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So we really only get Omaha, right?
42:03
[SPEAKER_04]: or Utah.
42:04
[SPEAKER_04]: It's Utah.
42:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, yeah, Utah and on my right hand.
42:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Utah.
42:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
42:07
[SPEAKER_04]: But for me, I'm not a massive fan of historical dramas, but I enjoy, I'm one of these people that enjoys them when I watch them, and this one really sucked me in very quickly, which is good, and it held my attention, and I was really interested in the story.
42:32
[SPEAKER_04]: It is a companion piece I feel to the Darkest Hour and that's how I was watching it through the lens.
42:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't not watch this film and feel there's mirroring here between Churchill and the pressure he was under after Dunkirk when you know.
42:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Britain stood alone, apart from the Empire, everyone always forgets about the Empire.
42:58
[SPEAKER_04]: But fundamentally, Britain was expecting invasion at any time.
43:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And all that pressure that Churchill was under to make peace with Nazi Germany.
43:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is a companion to that.
43:09
[SPEAKER_04]: It's at the other side of that four or five years.
43:14
[SPEAKER_04]: And it just really, it really held me.
43:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I love
43:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, the massive, kind of historical jobs I do love dramas that are people talking and debating and making decisions that matters.
43:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And for me, I think this is why I really enjoy this film.
43:33
[SPEAKER_04]: It's for that.
43:35
[SPEAKER_04]: So, that was fantastic.
43:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, I think that's our hot takes on that one, Dave.
43:41
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I think we're going to be moving into spoiler territory soon.
43:45
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
43:45
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think what we'll do is we'll take our first commercial break.
43:49
[SPEAKER_03]: If you are a subscriber, you would just hear some music indicating that this is the break, but otherwise here pay a couple of bills and then we'll on the other side.
44:00
[SPEAKER_03]: we will get into a spoiler full discussion.
44:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you get a bounce out here, thanks for stopping by.
44:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Go see the movie, bookmark is broadcast and come on back to hear the rest of our conversation.
44:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Keep an eye out for other eagle eyes, productions that are coming as well as all the other fun stuff that we've got going on in the Lorehouse community.
44:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be right back.
44:34
[SPEAKER_03]: and we are back and we really need to get on to John to get us our proper eagle eyes dedicated intro outro and break music.
44:44
[SPEAKER_04]: We did.
44:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But he's settled in.
44:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I put my vote in.
44:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you did, so thank you for that.
44:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
44:49
[SPEAKER_03]: He is settled now and we did record with him the other day.
44:52
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got his own dedicated recording space now, so we're ready.
44:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry for that.
44:57
[SPEAKER_03]: great.
44:57
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's get into.
44:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So we have an outline that covers a lot of different things from production to cast and crew and plot story themes, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, spot the trope.
45:09
[SPEAKER_03]: If we, if it's a movie we don't like, we call it spot the trope.
45:15
[SPEAKER_03]: If it's a movie we do like, we call it comparisons or oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
45:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You're right.
45:20
[SPEAKER_02]: They're mirroring.
45:21
[SPEAKER_02]: History rhymes.
45:22
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
45:23
[SPEAKER_03]: But if we don't like it, then it's a trope.
45:26
[SPEAKER_03]: We throw popcorn at the screen.
45:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And from here, Dove and Marilyn, I kind of like let's just throw it open.
45:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's flow.
45:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Stu, I'll give it to you to kind of steer us to navigate through the conversation.
45:42
[SPEAKER_03]: If you want to bounce us around to different things, but otherwise, I think we can just kind of
45:48
[SPEAKER_04]: allow ourselves to flow a little bit within the structure of that outline certainly I mean I'm interested to get both of you's thoughts about the fact that this started out the story and how they put the story initially started as a stage play and how it's translated to the screen.
46:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So David what do you think I didn't know that it was a stage play prior and then when I found that out after the fact I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I can I can totally see this as being a stage play and so I really appreciated.
46:24
[SPEAKER_03]: that they brought that stage sensibility to this, that intimacy, that close-upness, the fact that people were annunciating and you could hear and see everything.
46:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was really good.
46:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Because yeah, putting on a stage performance, you have to compensate for distance.
46:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And people have to speak and present in different ways than we do on screen.
46:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And yet somehow, I felt as if I was watching the stage performance.
46:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the way that the actors were importing themselves, the way that the sets were designed, the costuming was immaculate, like it was so good.
47:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, when I learned the, after the fact, I was like, oh, and no wonder that the source material is so well-thought out, this isn't a movie that somebody cooked up and let me, I think,
47:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Correct to me if I'm wrong, Stu, but didn't the, was it one of the, the, it was like a submarine movie about the UFO.
47:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Seven, one or something.
47:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Where they captured the enigma machine.
47:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
47:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's, it's like a garbage fabrication of the, that story, which is a, and it's a Hollywood story, right?
47:49
[SPEAKER_03]: and that the play takes the real history, compresses it, and distills it into a format that is easily representable in a presented form.
48:11
[SPEAKER_03]: and then that they're able then to take that really rich vein of material that well thought out and why are these characters and what is this and how have we taken these whole multiple departments and compress them down into individuals and then you know put them under
48:34
[SPEAKER_03]: that to do that as a idea from, hey, I want to make a movie.
48:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's my Hollywood pitch to screen but having first gone through the stage production process, they really had to think through a lot of stuff so that what they're stacking up historically
49:04
[SPEAKER_03]: accurate and representative of what was going on of all of these multiple departments and multiple people that were involved in this process.
49:13
[SPEAKER_03]: So that when we do bring it to screen, there's an integrity to it that is that might otherwise be missing when they're just trying to make a Hollywood blockbuster, Oscar, contender, movie or character vehicle for
49:32
[SPEAKER_03]: So I thought that that process is really great, I'm really, really glad that it was a stage performance before it was an on-screen performance.
49:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I did that land for you, Marl, you know, a film.
49:49
[SPEAKER_04]: That's about big topics, but it's very dialogue, heavy, and character focused.
49:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, see, I didn't know that it had been a stage play.
49:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I did find out that Stag's son, possibly the baby we see.
50:04
[SPEAKER_02]: The very end, I don't know if it was that one or a subsequent one.
50:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Thought this was good.
50:11
[SPEAKER_02]: You proved it.
50:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Thinking about what you've been saying, I can see a couple of the, well, of course, the final most intense scene of all, which David, you played the clip from.
50:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I can see that being on the stage.
50:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I can see that, communication is just room.
50:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So cramped, so crowded being on stage.
50:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I really would have missed that scene outdoors with stag under the tree.
50:41
[SPEAKER_02]: That probably my most favorite moment of the entire, except for the very final, when he comes and finds out, yes, his wife and his son are still alive.
50:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Which he didn't know throughout this whole thing, so that's yet another layer of pressure.
50:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that points to the title.
50:59
[SPEAKER_04]: about how Stag gets across the, you know, the importance of what he's saying in a room full of four-star generals.
51:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
51:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I immediately thought of the courtroom scene in a few good men.
51:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
51:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, Stag, they've stayed to first and it's got, it's got that.
51:21
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I'm bombastic, I'm putting it out there and it stopped you.
51:26
[SPEAKER_04]: I stopped me in the film.
51:29
[SPEAKER_04]: You really then focus it on everything you're saying and you can see that's how he was getting the attention of all these very big characters with very big egos in the room.
51:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And you see, right up until that scene, I really felt that, okay, here are two people who are using different sources for their information, they believe in their sources, they believe in what they're saying, they are both honest brokers, if you will.
52:08
[SPEAKER_02]: with all the other things that came along.
52:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, I love this.
52:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this as a research librarian.
52:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this as a human being, because here we have cognitive bias writ large.
52:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
52:20
[SPEAKER_04]: So we've got into that.
52:21
[SPEAKER_04]: You wanted to say, I think you want to bring someone into your day.
52:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Just saying I was going to ask you is a few good men is that going to be on our, one of our future, future lists someday.
52:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, probably.
52:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And we are still a part of it recently.
52:35
[SPEAKER_03]: It's got some problems.
52:37
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a very 90s masculine movie, but there's some interesting military courtroom.
52:42
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's a team of commands, stuff and there's stuff.
52:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And I do, like, sort of, can.
52:45
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah.
52:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
52:47
[SPEAKER_04]: We've started to get to the territory around, you know, Kasman was in characters, and I think it'd be interesting too.
52:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Rather than let's not talk about Stack first, what did we talk about?
52:58
[SPEAKER_04]: You started to talk about it, quick.
53:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Marilyn and how he was portrayed in the film.
53:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I did that land for you.
53:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Well.
53:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought he was kind of a jerk from the very beginning to be perfectly honest, which I think is what they wanted to convey.
53:17
[SPEAKER_02]: He was a very excellent character foil for steak, because he was relaxed, he was comfortable, he was in his home, you know, very American.
53:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Very American.
53:29
[SPEAKER_02]: He was an American and guess what, it's an American in charge.
53:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's worked with these people before, you know, Montgomery thinks, you know, the sun shines out of his, you know what?
53:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And so he's basically very well positioned, then we get stag who won't even fret nice quote unquote with his associates.
53:48
[SPEAKER_02]: He's very door.
53:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how much of a stereotype that is for Scott's.
53:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But he certainly represented in spades.
53:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But he's, he doesn't know if his wife and his child are alive.
54:02
[SPEAKER_02]: rub this whole thing.
54:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's entitled, and of course he's not going to tell anybody because that's not what you do.
54:08
[SPEAKER_03]: This wouldn't do that, right?
54:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You just wouldn't do that.
54:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But the fact that at the very end when he's been so proper and so official, the language that he uses to characterize the good of the cross, the material that they are all wanting to rely on is so shocking and so out of
54:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think he delivers it magnificently.
54:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.
54:33
[SPEAKER_04]: How did you find the Cricstag relationship day?
54:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Because that's the one thing, you know, we talked about what we'll do at Eagle Isis.
54:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we'll call out a good trope when we see it.
54:45
[SPEAKER_04]: It is a little bit tropey to have the kind of buttoned up Brit and the kind of happy go lucky young, particularly in military films.
54:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And we get that very first scene where they're with the piano and his stack is just like him.
55:07
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, wait a minute, this is a very serious thing.
55:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And in a lot of ways, stag is taking the whole operation much more seriously than Crick is.
55:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Crick is is
55:19
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, being cock is as Maryland we were saying that his sort of a speed of core comes from the fact that he's where he's done this before he's been very successful, etc.
55:29
[SPEAKER_03]: etc.
55:31
[SPEAKER_03]: the, and it's not just a Brit, it's a scots, and who is a doctor, and he actually outranks him, but I believe the group captain outranks the major.
55:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, he was, I think he was colonel.
55:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he was colonel.
55:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Kirk was a colonel, but I believe a group captain is, does outrank the, the colonel.
55:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Closed.
55:54
[SPEAKER_04]: It's weird.
55:55
[SPEAKER_04]: You could say there were similar, similar rank structures.
55:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, Stag was RAF, so he was Air Force.
56:05
[SPEAKER_04]: kick was Army.
56:08
[SPEAKER_04]: But Anna Stag says to Eisenhower, I'm in charge effectively.
56:15
[SPEAKER_04]: So yes, responsibility falls on me.
56:18
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think it was, I think they tried to soften that trope by having
56:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Therefore, that's why I'm not involved in Crick.
56:35
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just thought it was, I thought it was a little bit trippy, that introduction thing was like, oh, yeah, yeah, it plays a bit, but as John, our fellow Loround hosts says, you know, use tropes, use them well.
56:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I thought that this trope was was played well.
56:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Crick had that jauntiness.
56:57
[SPEAKER_03]: He's at the height of his career.
56:59
[SPEAKER_03]: He has the ear of the Supreme Allied commander.
57:02
[SPEAKER_03]: He is a good at his job, he has had many successes that had had many important outcomes for operations around the world.
57:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And so everything about him is that American exuberance, hey, we're here and we're going to kick some ass.
57:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And the Brits are on their back heel.
57:25
[SPEAKER_03]: They are staring down the barrel of an invasion.
57:27
[SPEAKER_03]: They've gone through the battle of Britain.
57:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And they've suffered, they're still suffering coming out of World War I.
57:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, way more so than the Americans have.
57:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we sent people over and they came back.
57:42
[SPEAKER_03]: But this was on the shores.
57:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And these were men and women literally coming home from the front lines, on their, their,
57:50
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, rotations.
57:52
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a very in in your face kind of scenario where it's for Americans.
57:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it would would have been a I'm assuming that it would have been a very different as lived experience.
58:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And so to have this this brush American and this Dauer Scotsman was a I think a good use of the trope of the American and the UK, you know, a citizen of the UK
58:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And that sort of stiff upper lip sort of an attitude and mentality.
58:25
[SPEAKER_03]: yet they play stag and I know we're not getting too deep into stag, but they play stag so well by giving us that backstory of his family.
58:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
58:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
58:33
[SPEAKER_04]: It's good show.
58:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's also a background tension again because it was Churchill, the Brit, who recommended the Brit forecaster to Eisenhower, the American.
58:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
58:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And so again you have this U.S. UK tension going on.
58:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And Eisenhower ultimately responsibility for the decision rests with him.
59:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet, from for a stag, he's got to convince this whole roomful, as you say, for a strong general's in all the rest of it.
59:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But also, back to that tension of U.S. U.K. whatever, and is it bragadocio or not?
59:20
[SPEAKER_04]: But so there you've got again that being mirrored because we haven't spoken about Eisenhower.
59:26
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no.
59:27
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got that mirrored in the relationship between Eisenhower and Montgomery.
59:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, which is well, you know, it's well documented.
59:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, burdened Montgomery was a massive egotist.
59:38
[SPEAKER_03]: He goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes,
59:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was thinking Jack asked myself, okay, as if we're just so as an expert to soldier, I could possibly say something like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
1:00:11
[SPEAKER_04]: But that was great because you saw, you then saw the mirror of that lower level antagonism or friction, play day at the level where, you know, okay, stacking, quick might not get on and it might upset your three of his team.
1:00:29
[SPEAKER_04]: If Montgomery and Eisenhower aren't playing together nicely, that kid costs tens of thousands of lives.
1:00:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
1:00:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's just the same thing, but it's just different states.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.
1:00:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I hadn't actually sort of applied that to the the state
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Because mirrored, it gives us the Benchinality to the whole to the Stag Creek relationship as well.
1:00:58
[SPEAKER_04]: But he's good.
1:01:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because Montgomery is, you know, you see it within the way he's been, you know, stands up in the in the room.
1:01:08
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's like, saying, you know, there is no other day.
1:01:11
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the day we're going, just get me there, get my men on the beach and you just think,
1:01:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you look at Eisenhower, and it's just like, I've got to make this decision.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And the one they're going to point to.
1:01:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't just say down the torpedoes, let's go go go go go.
1:01:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I've got to weigh and check and balance and think.
1:01:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm sure, in his head, he's also thinking of the future.
1:01:38
[SPEAKER_04]: How is this decision going to be looked at?
1:01:42
[SPEAKER_03]: in future generations, you know, because if we get it wrong, we'll want to the story beats to start with Operation Torch, which was the practice landing on the south shores of the UK that turned into, as an American might say, a cluster fuck, that it's really, they kept showing us the scenes of that
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... wait that Eisenhower was carrying yeah he in some of i hate to say this in this way but would he have been so so cautious or would he have been more cavalier if torch if torch had gone swimmingly yeah as we might say would they have been more cavalier in their approach to overlord we'll see this is the thing
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And it doesn't make a bit of difference in the end.
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So for once, you have to consider this larger.
1:02:52
[SPEAKER_02]: issue, which is completely outside of your personal can.
1:02:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's part of Montgomery's reaction.
1:02:58
[SPEAKER_02]: He's frustrated because he doesn't understand all these squiggles and maps and whatever, and this is a good ban.
1:03:03
[SPEAKER_02]: He's always been right before I trust him and who are you?
1:03:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You've been coming out of nowhere and who's Churchill anyway because look what we're going to cock up, they've made it there.
1:03:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have to come in and mop up.
1:03:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm projecting now, obviously,
1:03:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's definitely an issue.
1:03:22
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing I wanted to raise is as another character in here, maybe second to a level, but I love the way they use her, in that case, summer be.
1:03:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they make, they make a really interesting, it's very subtle, but I think you can see from their scenes together, a case in which, yes, they are a couple, they are intimate.
1:03:48
[SPEAKER_02]: because she is supporting us in how she's helping him through.
1:03:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can, if David, if you want to put some stuff in the notes for the episode, Susan Wittig, Albert has written a wonderful biography called the General's wife, where he talks about this possible relationship.
1:04:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So even the great, you know, the higher ups
1:04:17
[SPEAKER_02]: information and support from a lot of people again who we never see.
1:04:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm glad you're raised.
1:04:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so I was going to be because she actually plays that that integral role between eyes and the power and stacks.
1:04:33
[SPEAKER_04]: She's she's the integral into the future.
1:04:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, exactly.
1:04:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Podcast them out.
1:04:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But she's turning down the pressure.
1:04:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she's trying to ease it, she's trying to ease eyes and how her, but she's also trying to get stuck to navigate because he's just effectively turned up.
1:04:50
[SPEAKER_04]: He literally walked in, didn't need some, you know, what I'm saying.
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_04]: He's heard it three days before D Day when...
1:04:55
[SPEAKER_04]: He heard it.
1:04:56
[SPEAKER_04]: The headquarters team has been together for years.
1:05:00
[SPEAKER_04]: So this guy walks in, basically throws all their plans up in the air.
1:05:06
[SPEAKER_04]: So good to have that person involved about, you know, soften, haystack, 11.
1:05:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:05:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So that was really interesting.
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think your point about her being able to, you know, reduce or relieve pressure.
1:05:21
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the key plot element.
1:05:25
[SPEAKER_04]: It's in the title.
1:05:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
1:05:30
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't, I mean,
1:05:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think we need to do an enormous deep dive about this because everything within this film is pressure.
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_04]: As you've said, you've got the time ticking on D Day.
1:05:45
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got the pressure of people not agreeing with each other.
1:05:49
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got the pressure of Stag and his pregnant wife, which is ramped up when we discover a pivotal moment in the film.
1:05:58
[SPEAKER_04]: that the hospital where his wife is giving birth has been bombed, and she's missing.
1:06:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
1:06:05
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's just pressure, pressure, pressure just ramping up.
1:06:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, how did that land, how did that land for you, David, that kind of?
1:06:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And I really enjoy her as an actor and I loved what she brought on screen and then I got a little confused and her performance in this a little bit at least with the accent and maybe if I'd known a little bit more about case summers be ahead of time I would have understood the relationship and her trajectory as a soldier and you know how she ended up in that position.
1:06:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and now I'm like, oh, like, I've got the Wikipedia page open and like trying to like cram.
1:06:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm on a down below my notes down below.
1:06:52
[SPEAKER_02]: She's in a foreign member.
1:06:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was thrown by the, yeah, I was thrown by her accent a little bit, but yeah.
1:07:02
[SPEAKER_03]: But of course, we're dealing with a historical film.
1:07:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course, we're dealing with, you know, a recreation of the times then.
1:07:12
[SPEAKER_03]: But leave it to the woman to be the leviting agent for the eye blooded men, newer emotional it way too emotional to be in charge of this stuff.
1:07:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's the cool calm level headed person.
1:07:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not how genderized do we want to be here?
1:07:29
[SPEAKER_03]: People are people.
1:07:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people are high strong.
1:07:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people are not high strong, right?
1:07:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And having the right mix of both men and women and other
1:07:40
[SPEAKER_03]: whatever, but the fact that there was this level headed calm, competent, detailed oriented person who could mediate and bridge the massive egos under one of the most intense pressure situations.
1:07:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And if we want to talk about the pressure, I'm just
1:08:07
[SPEAKER_03]: feelings of pressure.
1:08:11
[SPEAKER_03]: How is she navigating this?
1:08:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And what is she locked in?
1:08:14
[SPEAKER_03]: What is her goal?
1:08:15
[SPEAKER_03]: What is her focus?
1:08:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And it could be you could be very easily swept into different camps by the different egos involved.
1:08:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And yet somehow she remains calm and cool through all
1:08:33
[SPEAKER_03]: focused, they show us on screen she's focused on individuals and through focusing on the individuals.
1:08:41
[SPEAKER_03]: How many lives did she say because she was who she was?
1:08:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
1:08:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she was Eisenhower chauffeur during in 1942 and she did a memoir in 1948 and it didn't hit anything untoward
1:09:00
[SPEAKER_02]: But in 76, she claimed that she'd have been in many things to disguise as best I could the intimacy that had grown between generalizing her and me.
1:09:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
1:09:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is from Susan Ridigalbert.
1:09:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's the general's women, I got the title.
1:09:18
[SPEAKER_03]: OK, four.
1:09:18
[SPEAKER_03]: OK. Yeah.
1:09:19
[SPEAKER_03]: The general, all right.
1:09:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll get that in.
1:09:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll put that into the show notes.
1:09:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want us to go get into the weeds on the cinematography and stuff like that, but I mean particularly for you David, I think some of the the way that they seamlessly blended archive footage.
1:09:39
[SPEAKER_04]: of the day into the film and colorized it.
1:09:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought was really good.
1:09:44
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you've always got a good production.
1:09:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, how did you feel about that?
1:09:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was a brilliant.
1:09:52
[SPEAKER_03]: To be honest, I don't recall it as something that stood out to me.
1:09:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is telling you something because if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it did, if it
1:10:08
[SPEAKER_03]: There you go, you know, good score, you know, for a film, if I don't notice it, it's doing its job.
1:10:15
[SPEAKER_03]: So the, the his weaving that in historically.
1:10:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there you go.
1:10:19
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my assessment.
1:10:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, just, just from a general view about them and how did you, how did you say that kind of the weaving in of what, what looks like actual footage?
1:10:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was so seamless that I didn't even notice, I mean, I must have noticed at some point, but clearly it was not a, you know, it was not drawing in any way clearly it worked very well for me and the scenes of.
1:10:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, getting off the ships and all the rest of it, um, I think we must have studied the for footage so that they didn't have to use it for, you know, certain scenes.
1:10:57
[SPEAKER_04]: They did use elements of artificial intelligence to help them get the color grading and and get the blending.
1:11:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So there was obviously so a lot of technical work don't end the background to get something that for you.
1:11:14
[SPEAKER_04]: was, yep, was seamless.
1:11:15
[SPEAKER_04]: This looks seamless.
1:11:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And for someone like David, he's looking at things for and being able to do the band software.
1:11:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
1:11:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And in terms of the music, like you David, I I didn't notice it most of the time, but the times I did notice it, it was very effective.
1:11:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, my favorite scene, Stag sitting leaning back against this tree, while everybody else is in
1:11:38
[SPEAKER_02]: and the weather changing, and the music at that point definitely contributing to that.
1:11:45
[SPEAKER_04]: That was your big, that was your big, high point.
1:11:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Wasn't it that same, Marilyn?
1:11:48
[SPEAKER_02]: That was my big, big, big moment.
1:11:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
1:11:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I mean, this is an historical film.
1:11:56
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, your historian as well, Marilyn Sermine did this work for you on that level as historical telling of a story.
1:12:07
[SPEAKER_02]: it really did because I'm not up on the history of the day by any stretch of the imagination.
1:12:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But I could tell that they had put a lot of work into it.
1:12:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew about the background with case numbers B. I didn't know anything about the weather reports and in retrospect, I kind of, you know, metaphorically smack myself because well, yeah, it really was pretty important.
1:12:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I love the we've talked about so much of the ways that pressure has been exemplified in the emotional dramas, the close spaces, the hours of boredom followed by intense emotion.
1:12:47
[SPEAKER_02]: They made the weather a character in this film and I have to think that's because it was focused on the weather because we saw exactly how it whether was being monitored and forecasted and so forth.
1:13:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It became a character in the movie for me.
1:13:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was it was very much a part of the emotional roller coasters throughout.
1:13:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's seen that you don't know where.
1:13:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Where up to this point, Stag is not being believed by Eisenhower in particular.
1:13:21
[SPEAKER_04]: It's all, there's a very, it's a very difficult relationship.
1:13:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's told everyone, if you go on the fifth, it's going to be a disaster.
1:13:31
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's beautiful sunshine.
1:13:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And they go to church, and they sing the hymns and Stag's outside.
1:13:39
[SPEAKER_04]: lying back.
1:13:40
[SPEAKER_04]: You just want to think what's he thinking and then all of a sudden in typical fashion.
1:13:44
[SPEAKER_04]: The clouds roll in and then it's an absolute deluge.
1:13:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
1:13:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Till on historical accuracy or just real world accuracy, Stu, is that accurate?
1:13:57
[SPEAKER_04]: No one really lives in the UK.
1:13:58
[SPEAKER_04]: You can literally go out in your shorts and your t-shirts and your flip flops and come home.
1:14:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So I mean, I mean, just for context June is the month where they do the glass to be festival and glass numbery is either like a mud bath or it's scorching hot
1:14:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And you just can't tell.
1:14:22
[SPEAKER_04]: It falls on the same time every single, you know, every time you just can't tell.
1:14:26
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's it to me as a Brit.
1:14:29
[SPEAKER_04]: That was like, yeah, I can really understand that.
1:14:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Everyone's looking at the window and going, it's gorgeous.
1:14:34
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the problem?
1:14:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
1:14:36
[SPEAKER_04]: But Stag is like going to look that what's the data telling us?
1:14:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:14:41
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's he even says it's a data data data data give me the data.
1:14:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:14:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a historical reality to this film.
1:14:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know how much either of you have read.
1:14:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I only did a sort of a cursory orientation to this that display and then film is a representation of what happened.
1:15:05
[SPEAKER_03]: and that there was, you stag was stag, but yet he was supervising multiple departments in multiple groups of people doing analysis.
1:15:16
[SPEAKER_03]: In a much, there were multiple teeth.
1:15:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how much either of you can answer these questions like do you know, have either of you done more research into the historical accuracy of this?
1:15:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just, I felt that the film conveyed that
1:15:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember bringing in, but they're ringing in with their information and he's getting that from all different locations.
1:15:44
[SPEAKER_02]: As Stu said historically, yeah, you want to talk on certain weather talk about the channel.
1:15:49
[SPEAKER_02]: No, just as the Spanish Armada, they can tell you about it.
1:15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was just that the idea of data was so new.
1:16:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think historically that is very accurate.
1:16:06
[SPEAKER_02]: doing something really crazy off the wall seeming to everybody else who can point and say, well, I did these things in the African campaign and every single map, and it's been the same for the past 20 years.
1:16:19
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the Sarah Desperate, how much weather variation do they have?
1:16:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas the English channel, no, thank you.
1:16:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I mean, you know, having the first son,
1:16:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Lost at scene and that was more soldier incompetence, but there's a very long history of that channel and how it Effects military campaigns, how it affects Rains or governments whatever you want to call it and I think this was really really a little capture Did it work for you David as as a as a story and as a film
1:16:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it added to my appreciation of the production to learn that there was a much bigger operation, not even just people at weather stations all over the world, but in fact, the dynamics were much more complex because there were bigger teams and bigger units and I think even analysis units that were not there like there were a whole other
1:17:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So the way that we saw Stag and Crick's team in that one room and there might be two guys working on this one thing here and then there might be a guy or a woman over here working on these elements right and there's those are actually like groups of like 30 to 50 people.
1:17:38
[SPEAKER_03]: in another location, in the UK, in another location, in the United States, or wherever, and all of that data, not just weather reports, but the analysis of the collect, you know, the co-related data is feeding back, and there are multiple department heads, so it's not just Cric and Stag going sort of monoamono, but Stag is managing a group of experts
1:18:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:18:07
[SPEAKER_03]: The way that they were able to condense that stack it and create that sort of density, but then create an on-screen representation that we could understand exactly.
1:18:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I could identify with the two, the first two soldiers that stat relates to when he comes in.
1:18:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is he having you do this?
1:18:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I need you guys on that.
1:18:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, so now I have a relationship with those two soldiers.
1:18:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have a relationship with, you know, summers be and, you know, all of these people because they've been able to take the density and compress it into these smaller, into the smaller cast and the smaller room,
1:18:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So now it's relatable and could we have in the movie at the end some post-script things or I don't know, you know, go read the Wiki page for a formation, but understanding the historicity of it gave me a much greater appreciation for what the play and the movie ultimately have done.
1:19:12
[SPEAKER_02]: They encapsulated this at the critical moment.
1:19:18
[SPEAKER_02]: when, again, they're in that room with all those women with their headsets on, right?
1:19:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it was all women.
1:19:25
[SPEAKER_02]: The date is always women.
1:19:27
[SPEAKER_02]: The phone connections, right?
1:19:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
1:19:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
1:19:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And so in figures in the, the investigations.
1:19:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:19:32
[SPEAKER_02]: If the hidden figures back on in heels is really to hear what's being said.
1:19:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
1:19:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to have this absolute silence from everybody else.
1:19:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And again,
1:19:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, you know, the pressure of those, those generals and commanders in those headquarters units of filtering up data, yes, from the pressure of the soldiers who are assaulting the beaches, yes, you know, the naval bombardments, the landing craft, you know, pilots, what's going right and what's going wrong and how much can they, they are in that.
1:20:11
[SPEAKER_03]: bunker room actually effect what's going on on the field and so you know when we take a saving private Ryan opening scene and we pair it with this film.
1:20:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Fine, you know, you've got what was Tom Hanks's character's character's name anyway.
1:20:29
[SPEAKER_03]: that character trying to relay real-time information from the shore party back to the ships, back to who's going to do what?
1:20:39
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not going to fire more artillery.
1:20:41
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not going to stop sending the troop like they're it.
1:20:44
[SPEAKER_03]: So all the way back up the chain, these guys are sitting there.
1:20:48
[SPEAKER_03]: These men and women are processing all this information, but they can't do squat about it.
1:20:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
1:20:53
[SPEAKER_04]: They can't affect the outcome of what's going on.
1:20:55
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's going to be down to the NCOs and the soldiers, the privates, and the captain's in the lieutenant's.
1:21:00
[SPEAKER_04]: That's why they showed that loan.
1:21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
1:21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just going to say that.
1:21:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I forgot about that.
1:21:06
[SPEAKER_02]: That's fine.
1:21:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.
1:21:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:21:08
[SPEAKER_02]: The soldiers that had been, you know, hurry up and wait, you know, radio silence, they have to be completely isolated twice, I think, once before the first day and now before the second day.
1:21:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
1:21:21
[SPEAKER_02]: He is the one who releases the pressure.
1:21:24
[SPEAKER_02]: literally he explodes as a human being.
1:21:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I could accept and respect that level of brutality in violence because it was functioning for something very important.
1:21:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It was reminding us, oh yes, and we also do have these people who know that their lives depend on all the things that are going
1:21:53
[SPEAKER_02]: you just have to release all that and we just seen him lose his friend as well.
1:21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's an emotional piece of it all and I think if you're going to have a violent scene, I think this was beautifully used and well represented for what this meant.
1:22:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that moment, you're right.
1:22:11
[SPEAKER_04]: It's all well in good the generals, be in all tents because of what the plans that have been making, but ultimately it's the
1:22:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And what they're going through.
1:22:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, it was a very good that that juxtaposition of what's happening on the beaches versus that kind of tension.
1:22:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if they did that on stage.
1:22:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, how would you do it?
1:22:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it would have been anywhere near as effective as it is.
1:22:36
[SPEAKER_04]: So that might be a device that performed by a.
1:22:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it still running stew?
1:22:40
[SPEAKER_03]: No, not that I know of.
1:22:41
[SPEAKER_03]: But you see.
1:22:42
[SPEAKER_04]: maybe that the films are maybe another run.
1:22:46
[SPEAKER_04]: So if it's out next year, I think I'm definitely going to go and see it.
1:22:50
[SPEAKER_03]: We should begin to wrap up a little bit.
1:22:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was going to say with we've come pretty much to the end of what I thought.
1:22:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking Marilyn, like I don't
1:23:03
[SPEAKER_03]: No, but you know what what this is going to do on the final Oscars list and it's going to make the, you know, the best film list or not.
1:23:13
[SPEAKER_03]: But a couple of years ago, Conclave, right, was like this.
1:23:17
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a Conclave, isn't it?
1:23:18
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a Conclave film.
1:23:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say this is a Conclave film.
1:23:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
1:23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
1:23:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
1:23:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I definitely thought this is BAFTA.
1:23:26
[SPEAKER_04]: BAFTA.
1:23:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I definitely think this is the case.
1:23:28
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.
1:23:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.
1:23:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.
1:23:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.
1:23:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.
1:23:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.
1:23:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so.
1:23:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It just, and then to cross wire those two films, Maryland, really quick, because this is a thing that we've touched on a few times in prior podcast, is this idea of certainty being this sin, a sin, and the gosh, boy, you're David.
1:23:55
[SPEAKER_02]: hundred-point-steer house.
1:23:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
1:23:57
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, quick being certain, and he's having the the sin of hubris and arrogance and Monti and, you know, quick and and Eisenhower, like, I need to be, are you certain?
1:24:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And stags like,
1:24:12
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
1:24:12
[SPEAKER_03]: It's blocked out.
1:24:13
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all out there.
1:24:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spread out.
1:24:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spread out.
1:24:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spread out.
1:24:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spread out.
1:24:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spread out.
1:24:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spread out.
1:24:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spread out.
1:24:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spread out.
1:24:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spread out.
1:24:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spread out.
1:24:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spread out.
1:24:19
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a spread out.
1:24:20
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a spread out.
1:24:20
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a spread out.
1:24:20
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a spread out.
1:24:21
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a spread out.
1:24:22
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a spread out.
1:24:23
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a spread out.
1:24:23
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spread out.
1:24:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spread out.
1:24:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spread out.
1:24:25
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spread out.
1:24:25
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spread out.
1:24:26
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spread out.
1:24:26
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spread out.
1:24:27
[UNKNOWN]: It's a spread
1:24:29
[SPEAKER_04]: That's really good.
1:24:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I know we've got to start wrapping it up because I know particularly you David have got some family things you've got to get on with, I don't know, get my daughter and I are going for an overnight backpacking trip with a local outdoors group.
1:24:44
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've got to have lots of fun.
1:24:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Will it be be you know the weather the weather's supposed to be quite nice today.
1:24:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's the forecast forecast says we're supposed to have okay weather.
1:24:57
[SPEAKER_03]: The leaves are turning here so we're in peak fall foliage for this right now region and yeah, I'm really looking forward to this my daughter hasn't
1:25:07
[SPEAKER_03]: done any backpacking yet.
1:25:09
[SPEAKER_03]: She's done some canoeing trips and things like that.
1:25:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're there's a just a toe dip of some stuff that she's expressed them interested in wanting to do.
1:25:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I forgot to ask, as you told the same pressure.
1:25:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think she was watching it?
1:25:23
[SPEAKER_03]: This is so weird.
1:25:24
[SPEAKER_03]: She'll watch band of brothers.
1:25:26
[SPEAKER_03]: She didn't want to watch it twice.
1:25:27
[SPEAKER_03]: She was like, okay, that's a bit much for me.
1:25:29
[SPEAKER_03]: But um, do you know what we're watching right now?
1:25:33
[SPEAKER_03]: The Vietnam War documentary by Ken Burns, like gripped by it.
1:25:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So he can handle documentaries.
1:25:41
[SPEAKER_03]: He cannot handle dramatic representations.
1:25:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it does a story, something about stories affects her differently than it does say like a documentary.
1:25:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So.
1:25:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I was watching it hoping that I would catch her and I talked to her a little bit about it and I can go remember how in bands of brothers, you know, uh, the, the, how they had to stand down and they went, you know, and that's how Garnier found out about his brother, blah, blah, blah.
1:26:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like that whole thing, which this is what I love too about this movie as a or movie buff.
1:26:17
[SPEAKER_03]: is that it it bring it gives us that picture of what happened on the fifth and six before the invasion.
1:26:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Why it was delay.
1:26:26
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it was delay because of weather.
1:26:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's a very, very, very simplified story of what actually went down and even though this movie is a representation of what actually went down to, you know, it's it's a representation, it's not true, but that that as we were saying that distillation of what happened, what might have happened.
1:26:50
[SPEAKER_03]: really gives such a wonderful picture and now my sense of history is enlarged because we narrowed in on these small few groups of people in these small rooms, making these incredibly pressurized decisions.
1:27:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm very grateful to this movie from that standpoint of being a war film buff.
1:27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: a documentary there's there's a certain distance.
1:27:17
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a frame around it.
1:27:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
1:27:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you can watch it and you get moved by things because there's said things that happen, but when you're talking about a film like pressure, it is the people and it is very up close and in your face and emotionally very involving.
1:27:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think your daughter's right.
1:27:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is actually I think.
1:27:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, give her a couple of years and then read you said that I think she'll be fascinated.
1:27:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm intrigued by it because we actually received from feedback.
1:27:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
1:27:48
[SPEAKER_04]: After all, that's the recording.
1:27:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:27:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:28:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:28:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:28:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:28:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:28:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:28:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:28:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a pleasure.
1:28:07
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little big, little
1:28:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to say yeah we threw that out there so if you're subscribed or there's a there's an eagle eyes podcast out there already floating around where we kind of come up with some of these ideas.
1:28:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to talk about you want to make that a young's fate back sure eon who is a friend of the podcast subscriber and on discord posted just listen to both pods.
1:28:56
[SPEAKER_03]: There's another gen X fan of spy fiction really looking forward to hearing more.
1:28:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it was me that was saying how good the agency season two was.
1:29:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And despite David's criticism, sorry, you did a season one season two, what you're watching at the agency.
1:29:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Despite David's criticisms, I stand by it.
1:29:15
[SPEAKER_03]: It's firmly in my top 10 for the year.
1:29:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I understand David's issues, but in my humble opinion,
1:29:21
[SPEAKER_03]: the dialogue, the acting, the emotionality of it override those concerns.
1:29:26
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fair because yeah, you'd like to say with lanterns right now, there are our friends over at Dungeons and do Rags podcast, part of the network, have been...
1:29:38
[SPEAKER_03]: very harsh, apparently they don't dog filing it pretty hard on these minor technical points.
1:29:43
[SPEAKER_03]: We're a genre and I were like, the dialogue is so good, the characters are so good.
1:29:48
[SPEAKER_03]: So you know, it's where you end up orienting.
1:29:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Ian, I totally validate your point of view here.
1:29:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Concluding, conversely, I was more bothered by the unreal nature of some of John Stewart's
1:30:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I didn't even read this, I didn't even know this was a thing.
1:30:05
[SPEAKER_04]: I swear, I didn't read a head-on.
1:30:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:30:07
[SPEAKER_03]: First of all, I was more bothered by the real nature, some of John Stewart's background than lanterns than David was a different...
1:30:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Structural.
1:30:14
[SPEAKER_04]: That's perfect.
1:30:16
[SPEAKER_04]: We also got some feedback from Abbey.
1:30:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it was a subscriber friend of the pod and also go host with Alicia on book coverage.
1:30:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe I have not been listening to those pods because I did not read the books, but I believe Abbey and Alicia is doing that and I believe Alicia is going to be working with Abbey on some more things.
1:30:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if it's Abbey who's going to be on the neuromancer podcast, but that is an upcoming television series that is also a very important and famous.
1:30:45
[SPEAKER_03]: book and I know Alicia is very excited to be covering that and Abby may be supporting that.
1:30:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure.
1:30:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I'm letting the cats out of the bag too soon, but anyway, you know, stick around.
1:30:56
[SPEAKER_03]: The lower hounds have got lots of covering, and so these are all fun things even if they don't pan out.
1:31:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So Abbey said, just listening to your intro episode, great to hear, do 71 such a soothing voice, I read this out, so Abbey put this on the discord, I read this out, and I read it out, and my wife absolutely burst into hilarity.
1:31:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think I said, I think I said, it's not often that my slightly brimmy tins twang is is called soothing.
1:31:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think thank you very much.
1:31:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm taking that one to my grave thank you for me.
1:31:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll remember that brimmy at Birmingham.
1:31:37
[SPEAKER_04]: I think peaky blinders.
1:31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: if you're watching.
1:31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're into it.
1:31:42
[SPEAKER_02]: In the UK.
1:31:43
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a, I think a spikes on the Pocquila scale for violence.
1:31:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Definitely definitely.
1:31:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely.
1:31:49
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'd be continues chuckled about certain streaming services, release schedule, being tied to the toilet paper sales.
1:31:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:31:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, a good list was happy to hear that the expanse isn't on the pitching list.
1:32:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I said to I'd be no chance would.
1:32:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm definitely not going to be pitching about the expanse.
1:32:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.
1:32:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, no, neither would I. I don't know why we would.
1:32:12
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's not a meal.
1:32:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately, it's not a military or spy story per se.
1:32:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think it fits into when we were doing the
1:32:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Star Wars and how they did it and start right there approach to very combat and then you did a little bit all about how So actually, I think I think it works.
1:32:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think if we do do the That's a really good thematic podcast is
1:32:44
[SPEAKER_03]: how taking aerial dog fighting forward affects our sense of stuff because in obviously in the expense they are hard science fiction.
1:32:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I'll touch on what we're doing in a minute, but just to finish off for Abby, she says, May I suggest a spy show to criticize what we're up for.
1:33:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yes, yes, definitely take as she says the night manager season one and two, which has just been released this year since and good point.
1:33:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So I will add the night manager to the list.
1:33:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I, all right.
1:33:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I, I'll just say my wife and I tried the night manager and we bounced out pretty hard.
1:33:24
[SPEAKER_04]: That is the one with Tom Hiddleston, isn't it?
1:33:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's do that.
1:33:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, so yeah, but we can discuss it.
1:33:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if we want to, if we end up covering it, we cover it.
1:33:35
[SPEAKER_03]: So I know that's the matter.
1:33:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I just think, you know, Tom Hittleston, and you've got me.
1:33:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, if we do it, Marilyn, you could, of course, listen to the podcast.
1:33:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it doesn't sound like my bag, probably.
1:33:46
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's get into what we're planning probably for the rest of the year.
1:33:52
[SPEAKER_04]: David's already mentioned aliens.
1:33:54
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think we need to talk anymore about that because that is.
1:33:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I do need to mention something really quick while we have Marilyn on here because one of the thematics that Marilyn is brought to the conversation in the lower-ounce community is this question of power oh relationships and dynamics to power power with power over in power mint and there was a fourth one that I came up when I was doing maybe a hit it's not locked into my head
1:34:22
[SPEAKER_03]: But this very interesting thing that Ripley in aliens, in aliens specifically, you know, as we bridge out of alien into aliens, but aliens specifically, she represents a multitude of power structures, she's empowering to other people, she finds self empowerment for herself, she has power over when she needs to, so it's it's a really, there's a really fascinating analysis of
1:34:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Ripley's character in in the aliens movie, which spikes high on the pukillus Yeah, I mean, I've never seen it.
1:34:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to say.
1:34:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know enough about it because it's such a culture like kind of people.
1:35:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, no, I won't watch it.
1:35:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely listen to the podcast.
1:35:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I know David has been doing so much research on this.
1:35:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking forward to recording Aliens today because I just want to get all the stuff that you're going to do.
1:35:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, to the sausage making of it all there is a world that too in some places where people do these live watches.
1:35:28
[SPEAKER_03]: and do these, and I believe the Signum University folks do this.
1:35:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I was talking to Maggie about this.
1:35:36
[SPEAKER_02]: They do, sort of as the Prancing Pointy podcast.
1:35:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, they do a live watch where they're actually sort of mystery science theaters dial, watching the movie live, and
1:35:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I was thinking, got my God, if we were going to do that, I would do it with aliens with you stew and we could actually, like it would be a separate pod from the 40th anniversary analysis or conversation pod.
1:35:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's keep that in mind.
1:36:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I could be down with that.
1:36:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:36:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So you mentioned, we'll look at lioness and slow horses.
1:36:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Where are you with slow horses right now?
1:36:09
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm up to, I'm up just up to the latest episodes.
1:36:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I got accidentally spoiled, and I have not, since I got spoiled, and when I have not been able to get to the episode and it's driving me mad because I need to get there.
1:36:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
1:36:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel for you.
1:36:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel for you, but yeah, we're going to cover that.
1:36:28
[SPEAKER_04]: We're also going to cover before Christmas, Band of Brothers.
1:36:33
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the 25th anniversary.
1:36:34
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a 25th anniversary documentary on HBO at the moment, I believe, and we're going to be joined on that by Brian 863.
1:36:45
[SPEAKER_04]: My Lord, Brother.
1:36:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Your Lord, Brother.
1:36:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Go to join us.
1:36:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm really looking forward to that one as well.
1:36:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Do in Brian joined like almost at the same time like within a week or something like that I've always seen them as as Lord Twins so we are little twins.
1:37:00
[SPEAKER_03]: We look so and you're both very active members of the community and support the community and And all the other hosts and so many ways and of course Brian is a one of the co-hosts of the into the West podcast This is Mr. Red Zippy where we memorialize actors and other
1:37:18
[SPEAKER_03]: famous people who impact the stories we love when we get to spend a little time with them before we send them.
1:37:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And there you go, Maryland was on the first into the West podcast and need help to name the podcast.
1:37:32
[SPEAKER_03]: So there you go, Maryland.
1:37:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
1:37:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll, I think you're on just something about this twin-supported
1:37:46
[SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
1:37:46
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:46
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:47
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:47
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:47
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:48
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:48
[SPEAKER_03]: He does.
1:37:48
[SPEAKER_03]: He does.
1:37:49
[SPEAKER_03]: He does.
1:37:49
[SPEAKER_03]: He does.
1:37:50
[SPEAKER_03]: He does.
1:37:50
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:51
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:51
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:51
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:51
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:53
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:53
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:53
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:54
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:55
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:55
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:55
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:55
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:57
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:57
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:37:57
[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
1:38:14
[SPEAKER_04]: which I think plays into the trope a bit we spoke about the Britain, the Yang.
1:38:18
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you can pull it out of the outline and stick in the show notes.
1:38:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay, stick.
1:38:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Got it.
1:38:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that down at the bottom there?
1:38:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Down at the bottom.
1:38:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I see it down at the bottom.
1:38:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So where am I putting that?
1:38:29
[SPEAKER_03]: In the show notes, I think.
1:38:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
1:38:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that what you said?
1:38:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that something I could link to?
1:38:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, it's pulled from the Tolkien's letters.
1:38:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do this.
1:38:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's put it into the document, uh, the scheduling document that we're going to help cut together.
1:38:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, put it in there.
1:38:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
1:38:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I will do that and do it.
1:38:51
[SPEAKER_04]: It's super duper.
1:38:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
1:38:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I think what else do we have and we had a couple more movies in the hoppers.
1:38:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, we we were thinking about we were thinking about talk and wasn't it?
1:39:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And yep, I enable yep and oh enemy at the gates and
1:39:10
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to go, it's best for you.
1:39:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, we just got to, we've got to sort out the schedule, that sensible for you, right?
1:39:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm not saying that, but I don't want to overload.
1:39:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to overload you day because I know you've got some big shows coming.
1:39:28
[SPEAKER_03]: But we've also, for eagle eyes, part of the fun is that the work that you've been putting in Stuart is that thematically bridging several, say, several movies together into one thing.
1:39:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So if we looked at Top Gun, Iron Eagle, and Delta Force, the recruiting poster, I believe, is what you call this, or who owns the Platoon, which is Platoon and Heartbreak Ridge, both 40th Anniversary films
1:39:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I would love it if the two of you would give the eagleized treatment to the 60 years of Star Trek.
1:40:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's a whole other thing, because I know it is.
1:40:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I know Ian and today are doing a wonderful job.
1:40:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know.
1:40:16
[SPEAKER_03]: But Ian and also Zach from Dune Minute podcast was going to join us on that.
1:40:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And we just, it became, it has become such a thing that it's so big to do it right.
1:40:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh, now we get it.
1:40:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But it just gives to me the military aspect.
1:40:34
[SPEAKER_03]: that's an interesting point.
1:40:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Could be a filter in space that would make it somewhat more.
1:40:41
[SPEAKER_03]: What is the military analysis of stuff?
1:40:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we've just been a military academy in the most recent show.
1:40:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that'll have to go on the list, the list, the massive list.
1:40:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, we were talking about it, but it's a 60th anniversary year, and I just let's put it out there.
1:41:00
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, fair enough.
1:41:01
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know that it's going to get covered in the 60th.
1:41:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
1:41:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I can wait till the 60 second.
1:41:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you bring up a good point, though, Beat Merlin?
1:41:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Because you can be, you could be in a military-style organization with rank and chains of commands and other things and not be a primarily
1:41:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:41:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's important to say that.
1:41:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, and there's a way to organize human beings into efforts with purpose and goals and does chain of command and rank and those and power over apply in those regards.
1:41:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's another interesting theme.
1:41:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh darn, Stu.
1:41:44
[SPEAKER_03]: We've come up with another theme.
1:41:46
[SPEAKER_04]: On the, here we go.
1:41:47
[SPEAKER_04]: This is what's going to be like.
1:41:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I just watched the
1:41:54
[SPEAKER_03]: at Astro.
1:41:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the one where a second in command is court martialed for concealing information about themselves.
1:42:04
[SPEAKER_04]: That season one isn't, I think.
1:42:06
[SPEAKER_04]: It is strange new worlds.
1:42:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Or it's the beginning of season two, I think.
1:42:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, yeah.
1:42:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I know we're trying to make it in a tune of tune, Riley.
1:42:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Number one.
1:42:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, number one, the first one.
1:42:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I haven't seen much of a strange in one.
1:42:17
[SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting.
1:42:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been working with you now.
1:42:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It's wonderful for us, T.O.S., you know, we were the ones.
1:42:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw it come out week after week kind of very original.
1:42:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So it definitely is going back to those themes.
1:42:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But with very much up to date kinds of things going on, which is great.
1:42:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you want to consider this question of things like
1:42:43
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, encountering a different culture and what's their military protocols and folding in the clingsons.
1:42:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to talk about a military ethos?
1:42:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And how does that get adapted into it?
1:42:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm cutting Maryland's mic off because like the overflow of good ideas is stop it, please, I'm just thinking before I do this again.
1:43:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I'm the longevity, longevity, I want this to keep going.
1:43:11
[SPEAKER_03]: on that note that you've it yes yes yes yes well and on that note we couldn't do this we could do more of this if we had more subscribers so we want to give a quick shout out to those of us those who do support the community starting with our community volunteers Nancy handed the pod
1:43:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Captain of the pull here, I'm Peter O. H. Keeper of the show track, our sub-zero.
1:43:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Lord Bararian, Brian 863, Brian keeps our blog going.
1:43:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and we have an open submission policy for the blog.
1:43:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So, if you ever feel the need to write about something, we have an open submission.
1:43:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Brian's our editor-in-chief on that.
1:43:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he and Aaron K. are our discord moderators along with Audrean.
1:43:55
[SPEAKER_03]: our discord server boosters, folks within the community who donate a little bit extra to make the server a little bit more functional and fun.
1:44:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is directed, this is from the community for the community explicitly, Erin K. Tillard the thriller, do 71 Athena Agilea.
1:44:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Lestu, Nancy M, Ghost of Partition, Radioactive Richard, and Adrienne, and of course our top tier subscribers across all platforms, people for whom which we literally would not be able to carry out this endeavor in all its various forms, but our lore masters and many of these people
1:44:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Nancy M, doves 71, right, 63, Frederick H, Sarah L, Garcia, Andreby, Cuongu, Nathan T, Sub-Zero, Aaron Kay, Dali B, mothership 61, Norles, Kathy W, Lestu, Jeffrey B, Alyssa U, Ben B, Scott F.
1:44:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Steven N. Julia F. Koli S. Illmariel, Rackizim, Jessica A. Redzipi, the TCS, LNR, Ms. Tenet, AC Wilson, Eli W. Cassicae, Chummaruni, Katilla, Josh Liu, Paint in PDX, Corrigi, Quintjiniel, Slovanator, Cassandra C, and forever last, but never least, Adrienne.
1:45:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you all so very much, Maryland.
1:45:28
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a pleasure to see you and to have a conversation.
1:45:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much.
1:45:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for being an inaugural element to all these new endeavors and things that we do.
1:45:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for being such a vital member of our community.
1:45:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I know we're all very much looking forward to rings of power season three.
1:45:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you haven't, go check out Rings and Rituals with Maryland and Dr. Sarah Brown right now.
1:45:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Stop what you're doing and go subscribe to our podcast.
1:45:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for your kind words today.
1:45:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Always appreciated.
1:45:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Stu.
1:45:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks so much.
1:45:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, my friend.
1:45:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
1:46:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for all the work that you put into this podcast.
1:46:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Stu.
1:46:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much.
1:46:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a lot of very good work.
1:46:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, good stuff.
1:46:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Not that the rest of us were slackers, but you know,
1:46:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You tried to give us a not slack as tried to give us the container, you know, and we just kind of bust it up at it, but it's still a lot of times.
1:46:18
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the way we were all exactly.
1:46:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And he did it.
1:46:20
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
1:46:21
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see everyone on the next one.
1:46:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Cheers.
1:46:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Take it easy.
1:46:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye-bye.
1:46:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The lower-hounds podcast is produced and published by the lower-hounds.
1:46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at the lower-hounds.com slash contact.
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