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RRR W/Rob - Culpability And Structure · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:07
Speaker 1: And the research Tramblings with Robin digging through the details.
0:15
Speaker 1: That's his job done Dallas Days and no reports. He
0:21
Speaker 1: breaks hit down in friendly shots Random research Tramblins with Robin.
0:35
Speaker 2: What's up, everybody? Welcome into some more random research ramblings
0:39
Speaker 2: with Rob That's me aka Big Bad Bob. Welcome in,
0:46
Speaker 2: Welcome in. We're gonna be talking a little bit today
0:49
Speaker 2: about the powers that be, and I'm talking about the
0:54
Speaker 2: power structures involved or associated with the assassination, from pre assassination,
1:06
Speaker 2: during the assassination, immediately after the assassination, and then so
1:12
Speaker 2: on and so forth in different various stages after the assassination.
1:18
Speaker 2: You'll see what I mean. It's confusing, but we'll get there,
1:21
Speaker 2: I promise. But before we do, I came across some
1:25
Speaker 2: interesting footage. And this comes from the Honest Joe's pawn
1:31
Speaker 2: Shop episode that we did last week, not this past Friday,
1:36
Speaker 2: but the week before that. And I have some thoughts
1:41
Speaker 2: about it, but let's take a look at some footage
1:43
Speaker 2: first so you'll know what we're talking about here. Check
1:56
Speaker 2: this out. This is footage of Honest Joe in the
2:02
Speaker 2: motorcade driving up and down Main Street. Check this out.
2:15
Speaker 2: You see everybody lined up there on main Street waiting
2:23
Speaker 2: patiently for the President's motor k to come right there.
2:31
Speaker 2: It is. Now, let me back this up a little
2:38
Speaker 2: bit so we catch it in all this glory. I
2:49
Speaker 2: might need to come back just a little more. It
3:00
Speaker 2: happens very quick, but as you can see, this is
3:06
Speaker 2: not okay, this is not the Edsel station wagon. This
3:15
Speaker 2: is something different. This is a different vehicle. Now it
3:27
Speaker 2: is white. It does say honest, Joe's here on the side.
3:31
Speaker 2: There is a bunch of shit written all over the place.
3:35
Speaker 2: And I can't tell whether or not this right here,
3:38
Speaker 2: because I've seen some places where it says that the
3:41
Speaker 2: fifty cow was or thirty cow or whatever it was,
3:45
Speaker 2: machine gun was mounted on the hood, and it almost
3:49
Speaker 2: looks like there is something right here mounted on the hood.
3:53
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what this is or if it is
3:56
Speaker 2: a fifty cow. I've seen mention of it being mounted
3:59
Speaker 2: on roof. Okay, but uh, I think we'll see it
4:07
Speaker 2: again if we let it play out a little bit more.
4:10
Speaker 2: I think they catch it coming back the other way
4:11
Speaker 2: as well. Yep, there it goes. Nope, I don't see uh, hey, well,
4:21
Speaker 2: I didn't see anything on the hood or the roof
4:24
Speaker 2: of this one, because I mean we get a pretty
4:28
Speaker 2: good shot of it here in just a second. Now
4:39
Speaker 2: you see how this one doesn't have it doesn't say
4:42
Speaker 2: anything about Ruby all over it. It's just honest Joe's
4:46
Speaker 2: pawn shop. And they even have a cardboard paper. This
4:50
Speaker 2: is JFK covering the back window. Nothing mounted on the hood,
4:57
Speaker 2: nothing mounted on the side, nothing mounted on the roof. Okay,
5:04
Speaker 2: but he's driving up and down the street, main street
5:09
Speaker 2: before the president's motorcade gets there. You see. Now we
5:13
Speaker 2: go to the footage of the actual motorcade. There goes
5:16
Speaker 2: the lead car. There's President Kennedy. Now you see how
5:25
Speaker 2: you see how tight his protection was around him at
5:30
Speaker 2: this point. And this is important. I mean, look how
5:35
Speaker 2: close the follow up car is to the limousine. I
5:38
Speaker 2: mean it's probably a foot away. I'd be surprised if
5:43
Speaker 2: it was more than a foot away. I mean, it's
5:45
Speaker 2: on this car's ass. The police escort on the motorcycles
5:51
Speaker 2: are literally right behind the rear wheels on each side.
5:56
Speaker 2: They're too deep flanked in a win pattern, and this
6:02
Speaker 2: secret Service follow up car is right on the ass
6:05
Speaker 2: of the limo. I mean, it's tight on there, it's
6:09
Speaker 2: really tight on there. Pay attention to that kind of detail.
6:15
Speaker 2: As as the thing goes by again, check out.
6:20
Speaker 3: How close that thing is to I mean, it is tight, tight, tight.
6:25
Speaker 3: It's a party and now we're half.
6:53
Speaker 2: Now what's interesting here is she says that honest Joe
6:58
Speaker 2: had decorated up a Model A Ford truck. Okay, or actually,
7:05
Speaker 2: a Model A is not a truck. It is a
7:07
Speaker 2: it is a car, a Model T is a truck.
7:10
Speaker 2: But clearly this woman is old enough to know what
7:15
Speaker 2: a Ford Model A is, a Model T whatever. She
7:21
Speaker 2: has very tiny fingers and hands. It's very odd, but listen,
7:28
Speaker 2: listen to what she has to say. All Right, she
7:50
Speaker 2: caught honest Joe, she filmed him, and I think that
7:54
Speaker 2: was her film that we just saw. Well, actually that
7:57
Speaker 2: was not the film we just saw because that was
7:59
Speaker 2: clearly not a Ford Model A or Model T. So
8:03
Speaker 2: we have a lot of different Honest Joe v. Hickels. Here.
8:10
Speaker 2: We have the one we saw in the film in
8:13
Speaker 2: the motorcade that clearly was not the Edseel station wagon
8:16
Speaker 2: that we've seen before. Okay, we have her talking about
8:20
Speaker 2: a Model A vehicle that was clearly not the one
8:26
Speaker 2: seen in uh the Motorkde film. We have talked about
8:35
Speaker 2: there being a black truck that was decorated with Honest
8:41
Speaker 2: Joe shit all over it, and then we had the
8:43
Speaker 2: one that we saw the car that we saw in
8:46
Speaker 2: the Motor Kate film. So right, there is four different
8:50
Speaker 2: versions of Honest Joe vehicles that are very noticeable. They're
8:56
Speaker 2: they're basically driving billboards. So and then we saw the
9:03
Speaker 2: one it looked like a panel van that was parked
9:06
Speaker 2: kind of in the alley beside h Honest Joe's building.
9:11
Speaker 2: That would be five different Honest Joe's vehicles, four of
9:17
Speaker 2: which we could put it in proximity of Daily Plaza
9:23
Speaker 2: or in the motorcade on Friday, November twenty second, nineteen
9:27
Speaker 2: sixty three. So it wasn't just one vehicle that was
9:32
Speaker 2: seen and driven being driven around all these different people. Now,
9:38
Speaker 2: of course you couldn't get enclosed off streets into the
9:46
Speaker 2: motorcade without permission, right and apparently Honest Joe got permission
9:56
Speaker 2: to drive up and down the streets before the motorcad.
10:02
Speaker 2: Don't know who gave it to him, don't know who
10:05
Speaker 2: let him in, but it had to be somebody from
10:06
Speaker 2: the Dallas Police. I'm guessing. Uh, but check this out.
10:13
Speaker 2: Here is another one, and this one has a another
10:18
Speaker 2: picture of the Edseel that we haven't seen. Let's check
10:23
Speaker 2: this one out. Now. What we see here is the Edseel,
10:36
Speaker 2: the one that has ruby have you met ruby yet?
10:39
Speaker 2: And has ruby for for rent tools guns Ruby, Ruby,
10:45
Speaker 2: Ruby Ruby. It appears to be a woman sitting on top.
10:51
Speaker 2: Now you can see right behind her. Okay, if you
10:55
Speaker 2: look very closely, it kind of blends in with the background,
11:00
Speaker 2: but there is clearly a fifty caliber machine gun on
11:04
Speaker 2: the roof of this vehicle. You can see it. I
11:13
Speaker 2: don't know why my cursor isn't showing up for you guys,
11:17
Speaker 2: But right behind the woman that's sitting on top of
11:19
Speaker 2: the car, if you look right around where her elbows
11:22
Speaker 2: are at to the right of her, you can see
11:24
Speaker 2: that air cooled barrel stretching out right above the word
11:29
Speaker 2: gun and to her right knee as she's sitting crisscrossed applesauce.
11:35
Speaker 2: There you can see the backside of the fifty cow
11:40
Speaker 2: stretching almost back to the tee above. Want and want
11:44
Speaker 2: to sell, but yeah, it's crazy. So there you have
11:51
Speaker 2: it the Edsel with the fifty caliber machine gun on
11:55
Speaker 2: top of it. This one says Ruby all over it.
12:00
Speaker 2: So this is definitely one of his rolling billboards. I'm
12:05
Speaker 2: not sure what this is here. I'll let it play out. Okay,
12:12
Speaker 2: this is another version, maybe a little clear, a little
12:15
Speaker 2: bit of a clear version of this panel van that
12:18
Speaker 2: is parked in the middle of Honest Joe's here off
12:22
Speaker 2: the sidewalk. You can clearly see it's painted up to
12:26
Speaker 2: it's got shipping signs all over it. The windows have
12:29
Speaker 2: stuff written on it. It's clearly not the absolutle. It's
12:32
Speaker 2: not a car, it's not a model t it's not
12:35
Speaker 2: a black truck. It is a panel van. Looks like
12:38
Speaker 2: a white panel van or delivery van. So there's at
12:43
Speaker 2: least five different vehicles that we know of with Honest
12:46
Speaker 2: Joe's advertising shit all over them. Right, let's see what
12:52
Speaker 2: else we got here. This is just a the document
13:04
Speaker 2: that talks about a young man she believed to be
13:06
Speaker 2: a delivery driver, got out and this is a She
13:11
Speaker 2: says she observed an old type station wagon with writing
13:15
Speaker 2: on it saying Honest Joe, drive into Houston Street and
13:18
Speaker 2: park next to the school book depository. A young man
13:21
Speaker 2: whom she believed to be a delivery man, got out
13:24
Speaker 2: and took a package about five feet long and six
13:26
Speaker 2: to eight inches wide from the car and entered the
13:29
Speaker 2: side door of the school book depository. So little suss
13:47
Speaker 2: and there we are again. We're back to that. And
13:51
Speaker 2: you can see the fifty cow mounted on the roof
13:53
Speaker 2: clearly of the Ruby car, the Ruby version of the car,
13:57
Speaker 2: and you can see a sign back here on the
14:00
Speaker 2: building this is Ruby's place. And I understand that his
14:05
Speaker 2: name was Ruben or ruben Stein, and his nickname was
14:10
Speaker 2: probably Ruby. And it had nothing to do at all
14:12
Speaker 2: with Jack Ruby. It's just one of those weird coincidences
14:19
Speaker 2: that has to do with the case. But I just
14:23
Speaker 2: thought that, you know, this was very cool to see
14:28
Speaker 2: this kind of stuff and find it, of course after
14:33
Speaker 2: the show, but you know, it is what it is.
14:37
Speaker 2: And thank you Uncle Dave for pointing us in the
14:40
Speaker 2: right direction there for that. It's a very good find,
14:47
Speaker 2: very good find, sir. All right, So what does it mean.
14:55
Speaker 2: It means there was a lot of vehicles being driven around,
15:01
Speaker 2: all of them likely not by honest Joe. He can't
15:05
Speaker 2: be in four different vehicles at once. But it is interesting.
15:13
Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't just one vehicle. I just showed
15:18
Speaker 2: you clear implications of four five if you include the
15:23
Speaker 2: blank black truck that's in front of his business. And
15:29
Speaker 2: there was a document saying they saw a black truck
15:33
Speaker 2: that had honest Joe's all over it. So I don't
15:39
Speaker 2: know what it means. It is crazy, It is definitely crazy.
15:45
Speaker 2: But let's get into a little bit about the power
15:49
Speaker 2: structure of everything here. And what I mean by that
15:53
Speaker 2: is the implications or the burden, if you will, of
16:00
Speaker 2: the powers that be and the stars that aligned for
16:06
Speaker 2: everything that happened to Kennedy that day. And the reason
16:16
Speaker 2: I want to go into this a little bit is
16:18
Speaker 2: because of the great grand conspiracy theory, right that you
16:23
Speaker 2: have all of these dirty organizations coming together for one
16:27
Speaker 2: purpose of one cause, and that is to get rid
16:29
Speaker 2: of this President Kennedy. Right. Let's talk about the Secret
16:35
Speaker 2: Service first, all right, because ultimately it's up to them
16:40
Speaker 2: to protect the president. Okay, bottom line, no matter where
16:45
Speaker 2: he is, it's up to them to protect the president. Now,
16:51
Speaker 2: there hadn't been an incident like what happened in Dallas
16:57
Speaker 2: in a very long time, and not to a US president.
17:04
Speaker 2: Of course, there has been assassinations in vehicles prior to Kennedy,
17:13
Speaker 2: but this is a different time. You can't think about
17:16
Speaker 2: it in today's through today's lens. Okay, we don't do
17:22
Speaker 2: presidential parades anymore. We don't do motorcades, and if we do,
17:28
Speaker 2: they're in vehicles that are very armored, very protected, and
17:40
Speaker 2: very hard to figure out exactly what vehicle the president
17:45
Speaker 2: may be in. And they only do it where it's
17:49
Speaker 2: necessary in a vehicle. I used to deliver some things
17:55
Speaker 2: over around Frederick, Maryland, actually a little north of Frederick,
17:59
Speaker 2: mary Maryland, around the Camp David area, which is of
18:03
Speaker 2: course a presidential retreat. It's in the Catoctin mountains over
18:09
Speaker 2: there around Thurmont, Maryland, and it is a spot in
18:17
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere in the woods where the president
18:21
Speaker 2: can go and just hang out with his family and
18:24
Speaker 2: feel normal and you know, not stress about things. But
18:32
Speaker 2: we would see I mean, there's a main stretch of
18:37
Speaker 2: road that runs from Frederick all the way up north
18:41
Speaker 2: into Pennsylvania through Gettysburg, and you have to go through
18:45
Speaker 2: a series of small towns, but you would see marine
18:50
Speaker 2: one sometimes you know, the helicopter, but occasionally I would
18:57
Speaker 2: be going up the highway and they would they would
19:08
Speaker 2: go ahead. Okay, it's hard to explain, but imagine you're
19:14
Speaker 2: going up a highway. They would divert you like there
19:21
Speaker 2: would be they would park across the highway with their
19:24
Speaker 2: lights on, I mean local police, state police, and they
19:30
Speaker 2: would divert you off of an exit, all right, and
19:35
Speaker 2: they would hold you at that exit until the president's
19:39
Speaker 2: motorcne went by. So again, they would do this miles
19:45
Speaker 2: ahead of the president, right, and as soon as the
19:49
Speaker 2: president would get closed, they once the road was clear,
19:53
Speaker 2: the police would move off, and then the police that
19:56
Speaker 2: were up on the exit ramp would let you go,
20:00
Speaker 2: and then you would go back, you know, once the
20:02
Speaker 2: president went on for a while, then they would let
20:05
Speaker 2: you cross over and go back down the entrance ramp
20:08
Speaker 2: back to the highway. But they would do this on
20:11
Speaker 2: both sides of the highway all the way, and when
20:15
Speaker 2: the president was traveling, because I mean you could sit
20:18
Speaker 2: there from the eggs of ramp and look over and
20:19
Speaker 2: watch and you could see the motorcade and they would
20:23
Speaker 2: have multiple, uh you know, black SUVs, black cadillacs, and
20:30
Speaker 2: you wouldn't know they all look the same. You wouldn't
20:32
Speaker 2: know which one the president's in. Is he in the
20:35
Speaker 2: first one, the third one, the fifth one? Who knows?
20:40
Speaker 2: But they were rolling, and I mean probably going every
20:45
Speaker 2: bit of one hundred miles an hour, no joke. I
20:49
Speaker 2: mean they weren't creeping through Dealey Plaza. They were moving.
20:53
Speaker 2: I mean haul and ass and I guess you know,
20:58
Speaker 2: they're all professional drivers on a closed highway. They're rolling, man.
21:05
Speaker 2: And to do this coming all the way from DC,
21:08
Speaker 2: because when you leave DC, you're on Interstate two seventy
21:12
Speaker 2: for about twenty miles until you get to Frederick, and
21:15
Speaker 2: then it's probably another twenty miles to Thermont. So they
21:20
Speaker 2: would have to do this and very busy highways and interstates,
21:25
Speaker 2: and it's crazy. But that's just an example of how
21:30
Speaker 2: things are now. Back then, of course, you know, it
21:34
Speaker 2: was different, right, It was very hard. You know, there
21:40
Speaker 2: wasn't like instant media. And again, the Kennedy Nixon debate
21:45
Speaker 2: was the first televised debate on television, and back then
21:49
Speaker 2: television is in black and white, and you know, news
21:56
Speaker 2: didn't travel very quickly, and if you wanted to reach
22:02
Speaker 2: the people, you had to go around physically, go around
22:08
Speaker 2: and talk to them and meet them and greet them
22:11
Speaker 2: and be seen. Right, you had to do stuff like
22:15
Speaker 2: this if you wanted to garner their support. It's hard
22:20
Speaker 2: to sway somebody right in your mind, you know. I
22:27
Speaker 2: see pictures of like Kennedy and some backwoods mining town
22:31
Speaker 2: in West Virginia. You know, but again, these people aren't
22:36
Speaker 2: going to know who the hell he is unless he
22:38
Speaker 2: goes there. And if he doesn't go there, and they
22:41
Speaker 2: go to vote, and they're like, well, this guy doesn't
22:44
Speaker 2: care about us port. You know, we're just little coal miners.
22:47
Speaker 2: We're dirty, little West Virginia coal miners, and this rich
22:50
Speaker 2: blue blood doesn't care about us. We'll vote for the
22:52
Speaker 2: other guy. But you know, Kennedy would go to places
22:58
Speaker 2: like this and meet the people. And it was just
23:04
Speaker 2: a different time and you had to do things a
23:06
Speaker 2: little differently, right. I mean, he was going to Dallas
23:10
Speaker 2: for a reason, to garner support for the next election
23:16
Speaker 2: coming up. He was running for re election for president.
23:20
Speaker 2: And you have to go to these swing states and
23:26
Speaker 2: a lot of the South, even though it was a
23:28
Speaker 2: primarily Democratic state at least back then, the Democrats were
23:35
Speaker 2: a little different. It's kind of flip flopped now, But
23:40
Speaker 2: you know, the South at that time was a different place.
23:47
Speaker 2: And you know, Kennedy was big on civil rights and
23:52
Speaker 2: he was really going to change things with the Civil
23:54
Speaker 2: Rights Act. He never got to implement it, and LBJ
23:57
Speaker 2: got the credit for implementing Kennedy's civil rights plan. But
24:03
Speaker 2: I digress again. Ultimately, it's the Secret services responsibility to
24:11
Speaker 2: protect the president. Now, it's not feasible, Okay, it's not
24:17
Speaker 2: feasible for every city that the president goes to right
24:24
Speaker 2: where he's involved in making a speech somewhere, or hopping
24:28
Speaker 2: in a car and going somewhere, or making it a parade,
24:32
Speaker 2: a presidential parade where he gets to be seen and
24:35
Speaker 2: wave to the people and everybody can see him and
24:38
Speaker 2: say hey and wave and see his pretty wife, and
24:41
Speaker 2: look how handsome he is and da da da da da.
24:44
Speaker 2: You know, you got to make a good impression on
24:46
Speaker 2: these people if you want to garner their support. And
24:50
Speaker 2: he had the opportunity to put the bubbletop on that car,
24:53
Speaker 2: and he said, no, I don't want it. I want
24:55
Speaker 2: to see the people. Now. Would things have been different
24:59
Speaker 2: if it was pouring rain that morning and they had
25:02
Speaker 2: to put that bubble top on there. What we've had
25:08
Speaker 2: a different outcome? Would that have changed history? You know,
25:14
Speaker 2: hindsight's twenty twenty. But back to my point, it's not
25:17
Speaker 2: feasible for the Secret Service because back then, you know,
25:21
Speaker 2: they didn't have a massive army of people in the
25:25
Speaker 2: Secret Service. Okay, I'm not even sure how many agents
25:32
Speaker 2: they brought with them from DC. And then of course
25:35
Speaker 2: there was the Texas contingent, you know, the close you know,
25:39
Speaker 2: the Fort Dallas Fort Worth Officer of the Secret Service.
25:45
Speaker 2: Maybe it might have had five guys in it. You know,
25:47
Speaker 2: they may have brought twenty to thirty guys with them
25:51
Speaker 2: from DC. I don't know. I'm just throwing numbers out there,
25:55
Speaker 2: But it's just not feasible for them to go in
26:00
Speaker 2: inspect every building along the motorcade route and go around
26:05
Speaker 2: and nail windows shut and welled manhole covers down, and
26:14
Speaker 2: you know, research every person that lives in the town
26:17
Speaker 2: that could possibly be a threat, and place snipers on
26:21
Speaker 2: every rooftop along the motorcade route. They just didn't have
26:25
Speaker 2: the resources for that. So it is a gamble. I mean,
26:32
Speaker 2: Kennedy wasn't stupid. He knows that there is a chance
26:36
Speaker 2: for anything to happen at any time, and that there
26:42
Speaker 2: was a good chance that they could get to him.
26:46
Speaker 2: I mean, just think about love Field for a second.
26:50
Speaker 2: As they're disembarking from the plane, Kennedy's going up and
26:53
Speaker 2: down of a line, and I don't know what kind
26:55
Speaker 2: of security measures they had him placed there at love Field.
27:00
Speaker 2: I imagine, you know, this is before metal detectors and
27:07
Speaker 2: things like this. Probably people just showed up. I mean,
27:11
Speaker 2: anybody could have popped through that line and popped his
27:15
Speaker 2: ass right there a love Field. Anybody standing along the
27:20
Speaker 2: motorcade route could have hopped down off the curb and
27:23
Speaker 2: been five feet away with a handgun and popped him.
27:28
Speaker 2: Somebody could have been on a rooftop or in a building,
27:31
Speaker 2: in a window for you know, on the fourth floor
27:34
Speaker 2: of any building and popped him from anywhere along that
27:38
Speaker 2: motorcade route. It just so happened to come later. And
27:43
Speaker 2: I think that the protection was so tight as they
27:49
Speaker 2: were going through like main Street, you know, you had
27:52
Speaker 2: the sidewalks were filled, people were hanging out their windows,
27:56
Speaker 2: and there's so many people around that they had to
28:01
Speaker 2: keep it tight, right, And you got to remember that
28:07
Speaker 2: Dally Plaza, Okay, once they get through Daley Plaza, they're
28:12
Speaker 2: home free. They can hit the gas. Parade's over, they're
28:17
Speaker 2: on the way to the Trademark and they're golden. So now,
28:29
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, they were close, but they weren't
28:33
Speaker 2: like a foot close like we saw in the main
28:36
Speaker 2: Street film. And they weren't going that fast either. I
28:42
Speaker 2: think they felt, you know, it's tense that whole time
28:47
Speaker 2: to be on edge and be watching the windows and
28:49
Speaker 2: be watching the crowd for the entire length of that
28:52
Speaker 2: motorcave from love Field to dally Plaza, right, and once
28:56
Speaker 2: they hit dally Plaza, they see that triple underpass and
28:58
Speaker 2: they think they're home free. After that, everybody, I think
29:03
Speaker 2: breathed a little sigh of relief that they finally made it.
29:07
Speaker 2: And then shots rang out and what happened happened, And
29:15
Speaker 2: you can place blame on whatever you want. You can say, well,
29:21
Speaker 2: the driver slowed down, the motorcade came to a halt.
29:27
Speaker 2: Nobody reacted except Clint Hill because they were all out
29:30
Speaker 2: drinking the night before until four in the morning, and
29:32
Speaker 2: everybody was hungover, and you know, they really wanted him
29:36
Speaker 2: dead anyway. Nobody liked him. They thought he was a communist, pinko,
29:40
Speaker 2: Russian love and comedy bastard, whatever. But these guys had
29:50
Speaker 2: a job to do, no matter their view of the president.
29:54
Speaker 2: And when something on a suspected happens like that, something
30:04
Speaker 2: that has never happened before in these Secret Service agents
30:09
Speaker 2: lifetimes protecting presidents, and the unthinkable happens, you never know
30:19
Speaker 2: how you're going to react. Now, Clint Hill did the
30:26
Speaker 2: right thing. He reacted very quickly. But he's too late.
30:33
Speaker 2: He's too late. Would it have mattered if he was
30:37
Speaker 2: hanging off the back of that car, you know, on
30:41
Speaker 2: the little on the little footstool and the handle. I
30:46
Speaker 2: don't think it would have mattered the angles of the shots.
30:59
Speaker 2: I just don't think it would have mattered if Clint
31:02
Speaker 2: Hill was back there on his little pedestal. If there's
31:05
Speaker 2: somebody on the other side on their little pedestal in
31:08
Speaker 2: their handle, I still think that that Kennedy would have
31:11
Speaker 2: gotten got So how much can you really put the
31:17
Speaker 2: blame on the Secret Service? You know a lot of
31:23
Speaker 2: people like to blame greer and killermen. You know, the
31:27
Speaker 2: driver and passenger of the limousine that was carrying Kennedy
31:31
Speaker 2: and Conley. Again, this is something that has never happened
31:40
Speaker 2: to them before. It's and until something like that happens,
31:45
Speaker 2: you just don't know how you're going to react. And
31:50
Speaker 2: I don't blame them if they did slow down. I mean,
31:53
Speaker 2: they weren't going that fast to begin with anyway. What
31:56
Speaker 2: is literally what's ten or eleven miles an hour? You're crawling? Okay,
32:06
Speaker 2: you're crawling, and when things like that pop off, should
32:12
Speaker 2: he have immediately hit the gas and went Maybe, But
32:19
Speaker 2: then you know, Clint Hill wouldn't have made it to
32:22
Speaker 2: the car, not that he made a difference other than
32:26
Speaker 2: keeping Jackie Kennedy in the car. I mean, imagine if
32:32
Speaker 2: they would have gunned it while she's out on the
32:34
Speaker 2: back of the trunk of the car and she falls
32:37
Speaker 2: off the back of the car and then the Secret
32:40
Speaker 2: Service car runs her over. I mean, Jesus Christ, now
32:45
Speaker 2: you've got a tragedy in your hands. Nobody ever stops
32:49
Speaker 2: to think about that. So it's a very delicate situation
32:57
Speaker 2: to put the blame on the Secret Service. They just
33:01
Speaker 2: didn't have the resources to protect the president the way
33:04
Speaker 2: that he should have been protected. But that's neither here
33:11
Speaker 2: nor there. There comes a point right where they stopped
33:15
Speaker 2: doing these things because it was just too much of
33:17
Speaker 2: a risk, it was too much of a drain on resources.
33:25
Speaker 2: And with the advent of television and radio and news
33:33
Speaker 2: and newspapers and magazines, all of these things were really
33:37
Speaker 2: starting to flourish in the sixties and into the seventies,
33:41
Speaker 2: and the presidents could talk to the people without actually
33:47
Speaker 2: having to go to them anymore, because I think by
33:56
Speaker 2: the nineteen sixties and seventies most homes had at least
34:00
Speaker 2: one TV in it, and back then there was like
34:04
Speaker 2: three or four channels. Okay, so you know, if the
34:08
Speaker 2: president wants to be broadcast and has something to say
34:10
Speaker 2: to the people, everybody's going to see it. Just about
34:13
Speaker 2: that has a TV. Excuse me, But back to the protection.
34:21
Speaker 2: You know, people like to blame the Secret Service for
34:23
Speaker 2: the shitty protection, but it just it is what it
34:28
Speaker 2: was back then, and doesn't really matter that they were
34:32
Speaker 2: out till four in the morning. No how many times,
34:39
Speaker 2: how many times in your life if you stayed out
34:41
Speaker 2: on a bender late and had to get up and
34:43
Speaker 2: go to work early the next morning, yeah sucked, but
34:48
Speaker 2: you did it. I know I did it on two
34:51
Speaker 2: or three hours sleep, many many a times. Many times,
34:57
Speaker 2: and it wasn't all of them, and they weren't all
35:00
Speaker 2: shit faced drunk. Would it have mattered. I don't know.
35:09
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean,
35:14
Speaker 2: they pretty much reacted as quickly as they could in
35:18
Speaker 2: the heat of the moment. I can't imagine it going
35:22
Speaker 2: another way, you know, like that horrible scenario. If Kellerman
35:29
Speaker 2: had gunned it and or Greer had gunned it and
35:37
Speaker 2: Jackie would have rolled off the back of that trunk
35:39
Speaker 2: and got ran over by the follow up car. That
35:44
Speaker 2: would have been crazy. That would have been crazy. But
35:48
Speaker 2: and then you couldn't blame him because that's his job,
35:52
Speaker 2: you know. You can't control the first lady climbing out
35:55
Speaker 2: on the trunk. His job is to get the hell
35:59
Speaker 2: out of there as quickly as possible when something pops off.
36:04
Speaker 2: It would have been a national tragedy of epic proportions
36:11
Speaker 2: that would have made that day so much worse than
36:14
Speaker 2: it already was. I can't even imagine. Now, let's talk
36:19
Speaker 2: about the Dallas police for a minute here, because despite
36:27
Speaker 2: the criticisms of the Dallas Police, and we will criticize
36:31
Speaker 2: them here a little bit, I think that they had
36:34
Speaker 2: pretty good coverage. I mean, I'm not one hundred percent
36:39
Speaker 2: sure about the rest of the motorcade, you know, coming
36:44
Speaker 2: from love Field through Main Street, But if Deally Plaza
36:48
Speaker 2: is any indication of the amount of officers that they
36:53
Speaker 2: dispersed around the motorcade route at every major intersection. I mean,
37:01
Speaker 2: they had two officers on the overpass, they had one
37:05
Speaker 2: one officer at the corner of Elm and Houston. Across
37:09
Speaker 2: the street. They had another officer posted up at the
37:13
Speaker 2: corner of Elm and Houston, you know. On the other side,
37:17
Speaker 2: they had officers on Main Street and Commerce Street. They
37:24
Speaker 2: had the motorcycle cops in the motorcade, and that's just
37:29
Speaker 2: Dealey Plaza. I would imagine that the rest of the
37:36
Speaker 2: motorcade was chock full of Dallas police officers as well.
37:44
Speaker 2: So I think all in all, they had pretty good coverage,
37:47
Speaker 2: you know, to supplement the Secret Service presence in the motorcade. Now,
37:56
Speaker 2: the Dallas Sheriff's Office, all right, is a different story.
38:01
Speaker 2: They weren't tasked with being in the city all right,
38:10
Speaker 2: you know, and doing anything to protect the motorcade if
38:15
Speaker 2: you will. I mean, you have to understand that this
38:20
Speaker 2: is pooling an enormous amount of resources from the Dallas Police,
38:27
Speaker 2: and there's other shit going on in the city. You know,
38:30
Speaker 2: not everybody as they're watching the motorcade. There's still people
38:33
Speaker 2: out there, robbing the motherfuckers, shooting motherfuckers, stealing shit, robbing shit,
38:40
Speaker 2: beating their old ladies, getting in bar fights, getting in
38:44
Speaker 2: accidents and recks. And the Dallas Police only have so
38:50
Speaker 2: many resources. And the Sheriff's office, in addition to basically
39:00
Speaker 2: helping out in Dallas County, were helping run calls in
39:06
Speaker 2: Dallas City as well. They also were in charge of
39:12
Speaker 2: running the jail there in Dallas and the county courthouse
39:19
Speaker 2: and everything else, so they kind of had their own
39:22
Speaker 2: thing going now. There was after the assassination. They of
39:26
Speaker 2: course had some response, the Dallas Sheriff's Office, that is,
39:34
Speaker 2: and they helped with investigating things like searching the school
39:37
Speaker 2: book depository, questioning eye witnesses, writing incident taking, taking witness statements,
39:43
Speaker 2: things like this, but they weren't really tasked with anything
39:48
Speaker 2: having to do with protecting the president along the motorcade
39:52
Speaker 2: type of thing. You know, there was bombs going off
39:56
Speaker 2: with the YMCA that needed attending to. H there there's
40:01
Speaker 2: car accidents going on, there's people stealing stuff, there's you know,
40:06
Speaker 2: it's it's on and on and on. You can't just
40:09
Speaker 2: not have a police presence in the city because the
40:13
Speaker 2: president is decided to take it take a trip from
40:17
Speaker 2: the airport across town somewhere and and and be seen
40:22
Speaker 2: by the people. You can't just take all these resources
40:25
Speaker 2: or else, you know, some clever criminals are going to
40:27
Speaker 2: be thinking that that's a really good time to rib
40:29
Speaker 2: a bank because there's not gonna be any cops coming
40:33
Speaker 2: because they're all busy protecting the president. So you have
40:36
Speaker 2: to have you have to maintain some kind of a
40:39
Speaker 2: police response to crime and and and incidences in the
40:46
Speaker 2: city and county of Dallas. And I probably sound like
40:52
Speaker 2: an idiot if it's not Dallas County, but whatever city
40:55
Speaker 2: or whatever county Dallas is in. I suppose, uh I
41:01
Speaker 2: should google that what county is Dallas, Texas in Dallas County?
41:16
Speaker 2: Thank you? Okay, So I don't sound like an idiot. Hallllelija.
41:22
Speaker 2: Now there's all kinds of counties around it, like Colin County, Denton,
41:25
Speaker 2: Denton County, Kaufman County, Rockwall County, and so on, and
41:30
Speaker 2: so forth. But you know, even these little sub sections
41:36
Speaker 2: of things have their own police departments, like Irving. I'm
41:39
Speaker 2: sure they weren't huge, you know, and and Fort Worth
41:44
Speaker 2: had their own thing going on. But yeah, there still
41:51
Speaker 2: had to be a police presence to respond to the
41:54
Speaker 2: normal everyday things that occur. So I don't really blame
42:02
Speaker 2: the Dallas Sheriff's Office for not participating in any protection.
42:08
Speaker 2: And this is all pre assassination. Now, I don't blame
42:13
Speaker 2: Dallas police. I think they had a good plan. I
42:16
Speaker 2: think they had a very good police presence in the
42:19
Speaker 2: motorcade and along the motorcade and in various areas. Now
42:25
Speaker 2: they're not preventative very well, but they should be responsive
42:33
Speaker 2: very quickly. I mean, we see Officer Joe Smith, you know,
42:38
Speaker 2: running towards the grassy knoll immediately after the shots. We
42:41
Speaker 2: see Mary Baker ditching the motorcade and stopping and going
42:46
Speaker 2: into the school depository because he thought that that's where
42:50
Speaker 2: shots were coming from. We have two officers on the overpass.
42:54
Speaker 2: One stays up there, one doesn't hear anything, and the
42:58
Speaker 2: other one is going around with the railroad guys, you know,
43:02
Speaker 2: around to the parking lot to see what's going on.
43:04
Speaker 2: You have Roger Craig from the Dallas Sheriff's Office who
43:06
Speaker 2: just happened to be out watching the motorcade in front
43:09
Speaker 2: of the County Clerk's building, and he hears the shots
43:13
Speaker 2: and goes running towards the grass. You know, as well,
43:15
Speaker 2: you have another response from Boone and Mooney and a
43:20
Speaker 2: lot of these other sheriff's officers. So I think that
43:26
Speaker 2: the immediate response was fairly good from the Dallas Police
43:33
Speaker 2: and the Dallas Sheriff's Office. Now took him a minute
43:37
Speaker 2: to figure out exactly where the shots came from. You know,
43:40
Speaker 2: this is not this is not an immediate thing. And look,
43:45
Speaker 2: a lot of the people thought that they had come
43:48
Speaker 2: from the Grassy Know area. That's just where it sounded
43:52
Speaker 2: like they were coming from. I would say the majority
43:57
Speaker 2: of the witnesses thought that they were coming from there.
44:03
Speaker 2: Even people standing directly underneath the windows of that building
44:09
Speaker 2: on the sidewalk in front of them thought never, the
44:13
Speaker 2: thought never crossed their mind. The shots were coming from,
44:16
Speaker 2: you know, thirty feet above their head, forty feet above
44:20
Speaker 2: their head, fifty feet above their head. No, everybody was
44:26
Speaker 2: heading to the grassy No area, and that's where most
44:30
Speaker 2: of the police response went, except for Marian Baker, of course.
44:35
Speaker 2: And you know, Oswald made it out of that building
44:42
Speaker 2: after allegedly being seen on the second floor, which there's
44:45
Speaker 2: questions about that happening. And out of all the film
44:51
Speaker 2: and photos taking that day, nobody seemed to capture Oswald
44:55
Speaker 2: leaving the building. And the only person that we know
44:57
Speaker 2: that saw leaving the building allegedly Buel Frasier, and he's
45:03
Speaker 2: told three different stories about how he saw Oswald leaving
45:07
Speaker 2: that building, so all very interesting. So again I don't
45:15
Speaker 2: put much blame initially on Dallas police. Now, this is
45:23
Speaker 2: a crime that occurred in Dallas, and it was murder
45:30
Speaker 2: and attempted murder, and it was a Dallas case. There
45:34
Speaker 2: was no federal law in nineteen sixty three, Like it
45:39
Speaker 2: wasn't a federal crime to kill the president. It seems
45:42
Speaker 2: crazy that it wasn't, but it wasn't. It was a
45:46
Speaker 2: local Dallas crime, and the Dallas Police were initially tasked with,
45:54
Speaker 2: of course, apprehending Lee Harvey Oswald or whoever they thought
46:00
Speaker 2: perpetrated this mess. He was tracked down fairly quickly. Sadly,
46:09
Speaker 2: Officer Tippett lost his life that day through whatever happened
46:13
Speaker 2: with that. That's a tragedy in and of itself, although
46:18
Speaker 2: folks have tried to say he's on the Grassy Knows
46:21
Speaker 2: shooting and he's tied up into this way more than
46:25
Speaker 2: everybody wants to think, and that you know, Roscoe White
46:29
Speaker 2: was on the Dallas Police force, and you know he's
46:32
Speaker 2: probably cia. He was in the Marines at the same
46:34
Speaker 2: time as Oswald. It looks like him could have been
46:38
Speaker 2: him in the backyard photographs because he's got that bump
46:40
Speaker 2: on his wrist and he has that weird stance and
46:42
Speaker 2: he's standing funny, and he was a photography manipulator expert
46:47
Speaker 2: type of thing. So that you know, there are some
46:51
Speaker 2: things that are a little suss about the Dallas Police
46:55
Speaker 2: when you take a much closer look at them, but
47:00
Speaker 2: the surface as far as investigating right the crimes of
47:08
Speaker 2: initially the murder of JD. Tippett and the murder of
47:11
Speaker 2: the president. Fortunately for them, they allegedly, no matter how
47:18
Speaker 2: you want to say it, they got their man fairly quickly,
47:22
Speaker 2: you know, within less than two hours after the crime,
47:30
Speaker 2: which is pretty amazing when you think about it. Like
47:37
Speaker 2: Lee Harvey, Oswald got out of that building and got
47:41
Speaker 2: back to the rooming house allegedly, and then instead of
47:46
Speaker 2: laying low or hiding somewhere, he ends up getting caught
47:50
Speaker 2: in public. Now, I had things gone a little differently,
47:55
Speaker 2: had he booked out of there, had he been on
47:57
Speaker 2: his way to the Greyhound station to get out of town.
48:00
Speaker 2: Maybe that's where he was going and didn't make it.
48:04
Speaker 2: I don't know, things could have been different for Oswald.
48:12
Speaker 2: But unfortunately for him, if he's the one that did it,
48:15
Speaker 2: if he's not, he was set up to take the
48:17
Speaker 2: fall very well by other entities to make it look
48:26
Speaker 2: like he did the thing. And either way, the Dallas
48:35
Speaker 2: Police got a man, their man fairly quickly, and of
48:43
Speaker 2: course they were interested in booking this guy, charging this guy,
48:49
Speaker 2: and interrogating this guy, and unfortunately for them, everybody else
48:53
Speaker 2: wanted a piece of this guy as well as far
48:57
Speaker 2: as interviewing him. The Phoebe's, the FBI was wanting to
49:01
Speaker 2: talk to him. Fritz left let the postal inspector interrogate him,
49:08
Speaker 2: and of course the Dallas Police were asking their own
49:12
Speaker 2: questions as well, and they were cooperating with the FBI,
49:19
Speaker 2: and fairly quickly without proper jurisdiction or reason. The FBI
49:27
Speaker 2: takes over the investigation of the crime and the possession
49:33
Speaker 2: of all of the evidence incrematory incriminatory evidence against Oswald,
49:39
Speaker 2: including all his possessions, the alleged murder rifle pistol, all
49:45
Speaker 2: of his books, all of his clothes, all of his bags.
49:50
Speaker 2: Everything goes to the FBI crime lab in Washington, with
49:55
Speaker 2: the exception of a couple of things that the Dallas
49:57
Speaker 2: Police were holding back because they were pissed that they
50:01
Speaker 2: had to give everything up to the FBI. They were
50:05
Speaker 2: being told to play nicey, nicey, or we're going to
50:08
Speaker 2: take a lot of your ship away, and they ended
50:10
Speaker 2: up doing that. They the FBI eventually banned uh Dallas
50:19
Speaker 2: Police Department from sending any of their guys to the
50:22
Speaker 2: FBI for for training, you know, to stay up to
50:26
Speaker 2: date on investigatory methods, you know, the the cutting edge
50:30
Speaker 2: forensics and and and things like that that were starting
50:33
Speaker 2: to come out that the FBI would UH teach these
50:36
Speaker 2: local law enforcement agencies about they could be threatened with
50:40
Speaker 2: federal funding UH being taken away from them. And that's
50:47
Speaker 2: exactly what happened. After Jesse Curry gets on the air
50:50
Speaker 2: and starts bitching about the FBI stepping in when they
50:54
Speaker 2: had jurisdiction over everything. Hoover took that ship personally. Right now,
51:02
Speaker 2: let's get to the FBI. What is their role in
51:04
Speaker 2: all of this. Well, they're basically the federal arm of
51:16
Speaker 2: the powers that be, the federal police, if you will,
51:22
Speaker 2: And they can't just do things willy nilly, right, especially
51:27
Speaker 2: in a case like this where it's not in their jurisdiction.
51:32
Speaker 2: But but when things like this involved the president and
51:41
Speaker 2: people realize that it should be a federal crime as
51:45
Speaker 2: to what happened here. And when you have an international incident,
51:51
Speaker 2: and that's what we'll call it, When the president of
51:53
Speaker 2: the United States is gunned down in the streets of
51:57
Speaker 2: a major US city, it is an international incident. The
52:00
Speaker 2: world is watching. This news went out immediately to the world.
52:05
Speaker 2: You have to find somebody, you have depend it on somebody,
52:09
Speaker 2: and you have to prevent you have to control the
52:12
Speaker 2: flow of information. And the fedids could not control the
52:17
Speaker 2: flow of information in Dallas with the local police. They
52:21
Speaker 2: just couldn't. So they were instructed and the FEDS instructed
52:28
Speaker 2: the Dallas police did. Look, the FBI is gonna be
52:31
Speaker 2: taking this over. You're gonna turn all your shit over
52:33
Speaker 2: to them, and you just step back and be good
52:37
Speaker 2: little boys and girls and go along with whatever we
52:40
Speaker 2: tell you. And then, of course the unthinkable happens, and
52:48
Speaker 2: before Oswald starts really really talking, he is gunned down
52:55
Speaker 2: in the basement, okay, of the Dallas Police Municipal building.
53:10
Speaker 2: I can understand why a lot of people think that
53:14
Speaker 2: it was a conspiracy, that Oswald was silenced before things
53:19
Speaker 2: could get out of hand, before a real investigation had
53:23
Speaker 2: to be made into Oswald and who is he connected to?
53:26
Speaker 2: And this, that and the other. And by Sunday they
53:29
Speaker 2: had already started connecting the dots between him and the
53:32
Speaker 2: Russians and the Cubans and going to Mexico and supporting
53:37
Speaker 2: Castro and being a commun Marxist, communist whatever you want
53:41
Speaker 2: to call it, Russian wife type of thing. You know,
53:46
Speaker 2: it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that, with
53:49
Speaker 2: this guy's connections, okay, that you could paint him very
53:56
Speaker 2: easily to be associated with a foreign government and possibly
54:03
Speaker 2: was this guy manipulated by a foreign government. Well, he's
54:06
Speaker 2: supporting Castro. We've been trying to kill Castro for years.
54:12
Speaker 2: The Castro retaliate. Was this the Russians? I mean, the
54:18
Speaker 2: guy lived in Russia for two and a half years,
54:20
Speaker 2: He's got a Russian wife. Is he in bed with
54:24
Speaker 2: the Russians? Did they brainwashing when he was over there?
54:26
Speaker 2: Did they recruit him to their side of things and
54:29
Speaker 2: implant him back into the United States as a sleeper
54:33
Speaker 2: agent to be activated when necessary type of thing. It
54:40
Speaker 2: was just very convenient for Oswald to die sooner than later.
54:47
Speaker 2: And it's no coincidence. I don't think that Jack Ruby,
54:50
Speaker 2: who could be compromised by you name it, insert person here,
54:57
Speaker 2: with his ties to the mafia, with his debt to
55:01
Speaker 2: the irs, and he was one of those guys that,
55:11
Speaker 2: no matter what he did, he could never really get ahead.
55:16
Speaker 2: He was always trying to be a big shot, be somebody,
55:20
Speaker 2: and he could just never quite get there. He wanted
55:24
Speaker 2: to be a big shot. He wanted to be a
55:26
Speaker 2: shot caller. He wanted to be a big deal in Dallas.
55:28
Speaker 2: He wanted to be known by the cops. He wanted
55:31
Speaker 2: to be known by the media. He wanted to grow
55:35
Speaker 2: his business into an empire where he would make a
55:39
Speaker 2: lot of money, a lot of money, and it just
55:44
Speaker 2: never seemed to go right with him. Everything he tried,
55:48
Speaker 2: the twist boards, managing young tap dancing black kids. Nothing
55:55
Speaker 2: seemed to go right for old Jack Ruby. He could
55:59
Speaker 2: just never get across that threshold. And then you figure
56:05
Speaker 2: about his mental status, right, we know he was on
56:08
Speaker 2: all these poppers and speed and everything else. God knows
56:14
Speaker 2: what they were giving him, you know, and mentally is
56:19
Speaker 2: this guy suggestible? You know, You've got the whole mk
56:24
Speaker 2: alture thing, Jollian West visiting him, him going crazy in jail.
56:32
Speaker 2: So there's lots of things here that Ruby could have
56:36
Speaker 2: been manipulated by lots of different people to make things happen, blackmailed, threatened,
56:43
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, to do what he did.
56:51
Speaker 2: Could he have thought he would be a hero for
56:53
Speaker 2: doing what he did. Yeah, people can be that delusional.
57:02
Speaker 2: I digress. So let's go up another layer and talk
57:07
Speaker 2: about the FBI again. Well, to continue talking about the FBI, Really,
57:20
Speaker 2: their purpose in Dallas at the time was to worry
57:28
Speaker 2: about subversives, interstate crime. There was different divisions for different things,
57:43
Speaker 2: you know, like the ATF was down there. They didn't
57:45
Speaker 2: to worry about that. There's Secret Service, Treasury agents down there.
57:49
Speaker 2: They didn't to worry about that. Basically, what they were
57:53
Speaker 2: tasked with, you know, according to Hosty was you know,
57:55
Speaker 2: investigating federal crimes, a lot of white collar type things,
58:01
Speaker 2: some things across state lines, bank robberies, this kind of thing,
58:06
Speaker 2: and subversives, keeping track of known subversives. And boy did
58:13
Speaker 2: they drop the ball with Oswald or Marino. And trust
58:20
Speaker 2: me when I tell you this shit hit the fan
58:24
Speaker 2: after the assassination in the FBI, it came down from
58:28
Speaker 2: Hoover on high. He chastised and now nobody got fired,
58:36
Speaker 2: but people were demoted, people were fined, people were chastised,
58:43
Speaker 2: people were demoted. There was like thirty heads rolling after
58:51
Speaker 2: the assassination. I came across his FBI document that basically
58:55
Speaker 2: went through and listed everybody and the punishments that they
59:01
Speaker 2: got after the assassination. And of course we all know
59:04
Speaker 2: what happened to Hosty. They sent they shipped him over
59:06
Speaker 2: to Kansas City for the rest the rest of his
59:10
Speaker 2: tenure with the FBI. So, you know, they moved people around,
59:15
Speaker 2: they demoted people, they took money away from them, they
59:19
Speaker 2: put marks in your permanent record type of thing. They
59:25
Speaker 2: were told, you know, hey, this happens again. You're done
59:31
Speaker 2: things like you know, the FBI did not make mistakes
59:34
Speaker 2: under J. A. Gohover. He ruled that place with an
59:38
Speaker 2: iron fist. He did not want the bureau to be
59:44
Speaker 2: embarrassed or to be blamed for anything. And you can
59:53
Speaker 2: tell by the response from Hoover's FBI after the assassination
1:00:02
Speaker 2: to investigate as an arm of the Warren Commission, they
1:00:07
Speaker 2: went deep. They were in they were interviewing people the
1:00:14
Speaker 2: new Oswald as a kid in middle school, high school, military,
1:00:20
Speaker 2: wherever he was living, wherever he was working. They went
1:00:22
Speaker 2: deep on him, his mom, his brother, his family, his associates.
1:00:28
Speaker 2: I mean, they really really went above and beyond and
1:00:35
Speaker 2: in thorough us as far as investigating every detail of
1:00:40
Speaker 2: this man's life. I mean, they probably knew when he
1:00:42
Speaker 2: took a shit right on August third, nineteen fifty fifty five. Yeah, well,
1:00:52
Speaker 2: you were at school, you were in Missus so and
1:00:54
Speaker 2: so's class, and you probably were you know, we interviewed her.
1:00:58
Speaker 2: She said, you got a haul past at ten seven
1:01:00
Speaker 2: that morning, and you went to the bathroom and you
1:01:02
Speaker 2: were taking a shit in that stall number two. I mean,
1:01:07
Speaker 2: that's how thoroughly they were investigating this case. Because Hoover
1:01:15
Speaker 2: rained down on them that we are not going to
1:01:19
Speaker 2: be embarrassed. We are not going to be caught with
1:01:21
Speaker 2: our pants down again. This is not going to happen.
1:01:24
Speaker 2: We're not going to leave a doorway open for anybody
1:01:27
Speaker 2: to criticize this investigation period. Now, did the FBI have
1:01:36
Speaker 2: things to cover up? It would appear that they did,
1:01:43
Speaker 2: maybe not in Dallas other than the fact that Hosty
1:01:47
Speaker 2: dropped the ball on the os Waltz, which is unfortunate,
1:01:52
Speaker 2: bad timing for him. But let's go to New Orleans
1:01:59
Speaker 2: for a minute. What in the hell Regis Kennedy and
1:02:02
Speaker 2: Warren de BRUEs doing over there in New Orleans? You
1:02:10
Speaker 2: have the allegations of William Walter, who was in the
1:02:12
Speaker 2: New Orleans office of the FBI. You know, at certain
1:02:16
Speaker 2: fact they had a file on os Wald. They got
1:02:18
Speaker 2: to tell a type the foretold of the assassination happening
1:02:22
Speaker 2: in a couple of days allegedly, and you know, you hear,
1:02:30
Speaker 2: you hear people like and I just put it out
1:02:32
Speaker 2: on the from the Vault channel, JFK from the Vault
1:02:36
Speaker 2: JFK Assassination from the Vault Channel. A two hour conversation
1:02:41
Speaker 2: of phone calls between Orspana and Harold Wiseberg where he's
1:02:46
Speaker 2: telling Wiseburg that Warren de Brewes has just beat the
1:02:50
Speaker 2: shit out of him, broke his rib, blacked his eye
1:02:56
Speaker 2: and was telling him, ay, you watch what you say, right,
1:03:02
Speaker 2: And he was telling Harold Weisberg, Look, this guy was
1:03:06
Speaker 2: coming to our CRC meetings in the Balter Building at
1:03:10
Speaker 2: five point forty four Camp Street after the Bay of Pigs.
1:03:15
Speaker 2: You know, this guy's in tight with all the anti
1:03:18
Speaker 2: Castro Cuban exiles in New Orleans. He knew exactly what
1:03:22
Speaker 2: everybody was doing. Oorispana admitted that he was an informant
1:03:30
Speaker 2: for Debruiz. So you have, yes, they had things to
1:03:37
Speaker 2: cover up. They did, They had things to cover up.
1:03:41
Speaker 2: You have Guy Banister, who is a former FBI agent,
1:03:45
Speaker 2: a big one, a big fish in the FBI at
1:03:48
Speaker 2: one time. You have allegations of him dealing with his
1:03:53
Speaker 2: anti Castro Cubans and Lee Harvey Oswald and David Ferry
1:03:57
Speaker 2: and all of these other suspect people in New Orleans.
1:04:05
Speaker 2: But they did their investigations, were they biased? I don't know.
1:04:11
Speaker 2: Debris and he denied the accusations brought by Warspania, But
1:04:19
Speaker 2: of course he would you have Jack the allegations of
1:04:24
Speaker 2: Jack Martin involving Regis Kennedy. And is it a coincidence
1:04:33
Speaker 2: that these guys were brought to Dallas after Oswald was
1:04:35
Speaker 2: shot or after Oswald was arrested, I should say, to
1:04:41
Speaker 2: help out, to interview witnesses, investigate, to help out. I
1:04:49
Speaker 2: don't think that's a coincidence. But what the hell do
1:04:53
Speaker 2: I know? And finally, let's get to the c i A.
1:04:59
Speaker 2: They have ab absolutely no business doing anything inside of
1:05:06
Speaker 2: the borders of the United States. They are a foreign
1:05:11
Speaker 2: intelligence entity. They do work, clandestine work outside the borders
1:05:19
Speaker 2: of the North American United States continent. That's their charter.
1:05:27
Speaker 2: They have no business, no authority to do anything, to
1:05:31
Speaker 2: run operations, or to do anything inside the borders of
1:05:34
Speaker 2: the United States. Can they Sure they can. Officially they can't,
1:05:44
Speaker 2: But unofficially they can. Of course they can. We know
1:05:48
Speaker 2: they did. It's done through cutouts, it's done through nonofficial covers,
1:05:57
Speaker 2: it's done through assets, done through informants, it's done through contacts. Right.
1:06:08
Speaker 2: Not everybody that they deal with is only official books
1:06:13
Speaker 2: of the CIA. Right, They're not on the official payroll.
1:06:17
Speaker 2: They're not an official CIA officer, you know, like David
1:06:21
Speaker 2: Atley Phillips or George Joannidis or William Harvey or J. C.
1:06:30
Speaker 2: King or David Sanchez Morales or E. Howard Hunt. There's
1:06:39
Speaker 2: only so many of those guys, right, And when you're
1:06:45
Speaker 2: talking about operations inside the United States, like what jam
1:06:51
Speaker 2: Wave was doing with these anti Castric keeping exile groups,
1:06:57
Speaker 2: they were funding these guys, They were watching these guys
1:07:07
Speaker 2: running uh these groups very closely. They were being used
1:07:19
Speaker 2: though they were being used as tendrils of intelligence. They
1:07:31
Speaker 2: were using these these these anti Castro Cuban exiles and
1:07:37
Speaker 2: also Cubans on the mainland. Cubans didn't come over here.
1:07:41
Speaker 2: They were being used in operations and for intelligence gathering
1:07:46
Speaker 2: and for propaganda purposes. They weren't officially paid on the
1:07:55
Speaker 2: books employees of the Central Intelligence Agency. No, no, no, no. Now.
1:08:06
Speaker 2: I was watching his show the other day, and I
1:08:13
Speaker 2: think it was the Danny Jones Podcast, and he had
1:08:16
Speaker 2: a guy named T. D. Barnes on there who was
1:08:19
Speaker 2: a former CIA officer who worked at Area fifty one,
1:08:28
Speaker 2: like since the fifties. And this guy knew a lot
1:08:36
Speaker 2: about a lot, a lot about a lot. Now, of
1:08:43
Speaker 2: course he didn't come out and say, oh, there's aliens there.
1:08:46
Speaker 2: There was UFOs there, No, no, no, you know, he
1:08:50
Speaker 2: said he wasn't privy to everything that was going on there,
1:08:53
Speaker 2: but he was very much involved in what people like
1:08:59
Speaker 2: North Grumming and these other major aviation companies were doing
1:09:07
Speaker 2: as far as testing experimental aircraft and things of this nature.
1:09:18
Speaker 2: And Barnes said something that really got me thinking. He
1:09:26
Speaker 2: said it was in the early two thousands and the
1:09:29
Speaker 2: c and you know, he had been retired from the
1:09:31
Speaker 2: CIA since like the seventies or eighties, early eighties, something
1:09:36
Speaker 2: like that, but he was still alive. I mean he's
1:09:42
Speaker 2: old af right now, don't get it twisted. He's probably
1:09:47
Speaker 2: in his nineties now. But back in the early two thousands,
1:09:52
Speaker 2: the CIA called him up and wanted to give him
1:09:58
Speaker 2: a commendation for his service, which he never could publicly
1:10:03
Speaker 2: receive before because you know, there was no Area fifty
1:10:12
Speaker 2: one officially before a certain time. So once the time
1:10:20
Speaker 2: where the government acknowledged the existence of Area fifty one
1:10:23
Speaker 2: and what they were doing out there, they called this
1:10:26
Speaker 2: guy Td. Barnes in and to give him accommodation. But
1:10:29
Speaker 2: also because he was one of the few guys left
1:10:32
Speaker 2: who was still alive back then in the forties and fifties,
1:10:38
Speaker 2: you know, the birth of the UFO phenomenon, if you will,
1:10:42
Speaker 2: and Area fifty one and right Patterson Air Force Base
1:10:47
Speaker 2: and all of that stuff. He was one of the
1:10:50
Speaker 2: few guys still alive who had lived through all this stuff,
1:10:53
Speaker 2: and they called him in and he realized very quickly
1:10:56
Speaker 2: it wasn't just about accommodation kind of thing. They wanted
1:11:02
Speaker 2: to talk to him for. It's kind of like the
1:11:08
Speaker 2: sixth Floor Museum, you know how they have like an
1:11:10
Speaker 2: oral history program where they set up a video and
1:11:14
Speaker 2: they asked you questions about things, and it's for posterity, right,
1:11:20
Speaker 2: so that that you know, generations to come can come
1:11:24
Speaker 2: back and watch things and hear from the people themselves
1:11:26
Speaker 2: that were involved in different things. And of course this
1:11:30
Speaker 2: is not for public consumption. This is for certain people
1:11:34
Speaker 2: in the CIA to have and proliferate. But they wanted
1:11:41
Speaker 2: him to do an oral history with them, so he agreed.
1:11:45
Speaker 2: He agreed to do that, and he said, you know,
1:11:50
Speaker 2: kind of off the books, He said, the reason that
1:11:51
Speaker 2: they were asking him about all this stuff is because
1:11:58
Speaker 2: they had no idea what their own people were doing
1:12:07
Speaker 2: back then like this ship was so top secret, so
1:12:14
Speaker 2: compartmentalized that there are no records anymore of who did what,
1:12:24
Speaker 2: who was in charge of what, who worked where. It's
1:12:29
Speaker 2: insane because you have to remember, okay, that the top
1:12:32
Speaker 2: upper echelon of the CIA, right, the CIA director is
1:12:36
Speaker 2: appointed by the president. It's an appointed position. It's a
1:12:41
Speaker 2: handed title. These guys need plausible deniability. They're kept in
1:12:46
Speaker 2: the dark about a lot of shit. Right, So unless
1:12:50
Speaker 2: they've come up through the ranks of the CIA since
1:12:53
Speaker 2: the beginning, kind of like of Richard Helm's type, if
1:12:57
Speaker 2: you will, then the director himself of the CIA is
1:13:00
Speaker 2: not going to be privy to a lot of what
1:13:02
Speaker 2: is going on in the levels and layers underneath of him.
1:13:08
Speaker 2: And this certain things such as Area fifty one and
1:13:14
Speaker 2: what they were doing there and the development of the
1:13:17
Speaker 2: U two and you know, radar type things and intelligence
1:13:23
Speaker 2: and all of this. You know, he talks about, you know,
1:13:28
Speaker 2: how they were getting They got this Russian MiG to
1:13:33
Speaker 2: Area fifty one, and they were able to take it apart,
1:13:36
Speaker 2: see how it works, see how the radar worked, put
1:13:38
Speaker 2: it back together and give it back type of thing,
1:13:43
Speaker 2: and they cloned it and they were able to use
1:13:45
Speaker 2: it and to use our own people in it to
1:13:49
Speaker 2: do aerial maneuvers, to see how this thing worked in
1:13:52
Speaker 2: a dog fight situation. And this thing was kicking out
1:13:58
Speaker 2: like all of our pilot's asses, right, and he says
1:14:04
Speaker 2: the problem was the pilots. He said, they had to
1:14:09
Speaker 2: basically sit the pilots down and be like, look, when
1:14:11
Speaker 2: you're flying this MiG, we want you to think like
1:14:14
Speaker 2: a Russian, Act like a Russian, talk like a Russian,
1:14:19
Speaker 2: feel the hate in your heart for America, and you
1:14:22
Speaker 2: need to come after us, right like like a Russian.
1:14:28
Speaker 2: Would you know, don't be up there pussy footing around, bullshitting.
1:14:33
Speaker 2: You know, we want this to be as real war
1:14:36
Speaker 2: games type scenario as possible. And they see, he said,
1:14:40
Speaker 2: once that started happening, you know, we were able to
1:14:44
Speaker 2: close the gap between our technology and the Russians technology
1:14:49
Speaker 2: as far as you know, these jet fighters and you know,
1:14:55
Speaker 2: he's talking about like you know the existence of these
1:14:58
Speaker 2: super clandestines by planes, the SR seventy one Blackbird of
1:15:04
Speaker 2: the U two, things like that, and how they were developed,
1:15:09
Speaker 2: how they evaded radar and all of this technology that
1:15:14
Speaker 2: came out of the programs. But What was interesting to
1:15:18
Speaker 2: me is that the CIA had no fucking idea what
1:15:25
Speaker 2: the CIA was doing back then because everything was so
1:15:29
Speaker 2: compartmentalized in the lower levels of the You don't need
1:15:34
Speaker 2: to know up there what we're doing. We know what
1:15:38
Speaker 2: we're doing down here, all right, but we down here.
1:15:42
Speaker 2: Everything's compartmentalized. That guy over there working on that exhaust
1:15:45
Speaker 2: system in that room doesn't know the guy that's over
1:15:49
Speaker 2: here working on the guidance system, and he doesn't know
1:15:53
Speaker 2: the guy that's over here working on the landing year right,
1:15:56
Speaker 2: and everything was compartmentalized. They didn't know what they were
1:15:59
Speaker 2: working on, a Russian vehicle, an American vehicle, a Lebanese vehicle, nothing.
1:16:06
Speaker 2: I mean, it was just so compartmentalized that you know,
1:16:10
Speaker 2: there was maybe only one or two guys that are
1:16:13
Speaker 2: in charge of something that knew everything, and of course,
1:16:19
Speaker 2: you know, nothing really went above them. So once these
1:16:25
Speaker 2: guys were gone or died off, there's no records of anything.
1:16:30
Speaker 2: Because everything that was being funded out there at that
1:16:33
Speaker 2: site is black money. You don't have to keep track
1:16:38
Speaker 2: of it. So it was interesting to me to hear
1:16:46
Speaker 2: that the CIA was interested in learning about their own
1:16:49
Speaker 2: history because they had no idea what happened, and they
1:16:55
Speaker 2: wanted to know. And this guy happened to be a
1:16:59
Speaker 2: wealth of everyman, but of course he didn't know everything.
1:17:03
Speaker 2: He was compartmentalized as well. And if they, if they,
1:17:09
Speaker 2: if they did get their hands on some kind of
1:17:12
Speaker 2: UFO technology, and we're trying to backwards, uh backwards? What
1:17:20
Speaker 2: am I looking for? Backwards design? You know, to take
1:17:26
Speaker 2: a UFO part, see how it works, and uh, you know,
1:17:32
Speaker 2: put it back together again, maybe improve on a design
1:17:34
Speaker 2: or implement some systems of them. And they did in
1:17:37
Speaker 2: a one of our design type things. He would have
1:17:41
Speaker 2: never known about it because he was compartmentalized out of
1:17:44
Speaker 2: that section of whatever. And it's just interesting to know
1:17:52
Speaker 2: that the FBI just doesn't or I'm sorry, the CIA
1:17:56
Speaker 2: just doesn't have a lot of file on a lot
1:18:00
Speaker 2: of the dirtiest secrets that they were doing. I mean,
1:18:07
Speaker 2: would we even know about MK Ultra now had helms
1:18:12
Speaker 2: destroying all the files worked, there would be no records
1:18:16
Speaker 2: of that program at all had all those files been destroyed.
1:18:21
Speaker 2: How many other programs do we not know about that
1:18:24
Speaker 2: were destroyed? How many of the JFK files that we
1:18:27
Speaker 2: did not know about that have been destroyed. And of
1:18:32
Speaker 2: course the CIA had very ulterior motives when it came
1:18:36
Speaker 2: to covering this thing up because of the things that
1:18:39
Speaker 2: they were trying to do to Castro in Cuba, that
1:18:44
Speaker 2: they're funding these anti Castro Cuban exile groups, and one
1:18:49
Speaker 2: of them may have possibly gone rogue and caused the
1:18:56
Speaker 2: death of the president. It's also not a good look,
1:19:01
Speaker 2: you know, to have a false defector program where you're
1:19:04
Speaker 2: sending these guys into Russia, right, because even if Oswald
1:19:10
Speaker 2: wasn't an official member of your false defector program, he
1:19:14
Speaker 2: damn sure looks like one, right, former marine making a
1:19:18
Speaker 2: big scene type of thing. Not a good look. You
1:19:24
Speaker 2: two get shot down, not a good look. So they
1:19:37
Speaker 2: had every reason and inclination to want to cover up
1:19:44
Speaker 2: anything that could be come back on them for any
1:19:47
Speaker 2: reason being tied to the assassination. And much like the FBI,
1:19:54
Speaker 2: they conducted their own internal investigation, and they were asking questions,
1:20:03
Speaker 2: you know, what do you know down Jane Wave, what
1:20:06
Speaker 2: do you know? Then they are did we do this
1:20:11
Speaker 2: any of our guys? You know, you know what's going
1:20:14
Speaker 2: on here? And then you look at the Inspector General's
1:20:17
Speaker 2: report from nineteen sixty eight. It's very telling. Now is
1:20:26
Speaker 2: this just a for the purview of innocence or is
1:20:32
Speaker 2: this a legitimate investigation trying to figure out if they
1:20:34
Speaker 2: did have anybody, because look, a lot of these CIA
1:20:38
Speaker 2: officers had a lot of autonomy to run their own programs. Now,
1:20:45
Speaker 2: they did have to report back a lot about things,
1:20:50
Speaker 2: but some of them were given more autonomy than others.
1:20:53
Speaker 2: They were given directives and they were allowed to kind
1:20:55
Speaker 2: of do their own thing to be as effective as
1:20:59
Speaker 2: they could be. And whatever the situation they find themselves in,
1:21:03
Speaker 2: whether it's intelligence gathering, whether it's starting a propaganda attack
1:21:08
Speaker 2: against Cuba and Castro through this kind of means, whether
1:21:13
Speaker 2: or not it's a infiltration of a black team, you know,
1:21:16
Speaker 2: into Cuba to try to assassinate Castro, whatever the case
1:21:22
Speaker 2: may be, these types of things could not ever come
1:21:26
Speaker 2: out and be tied back to the CIA because it's
1:21:30
Speaker 2: just not a good look. It's just not a good look,
1:21:33
Speaker 2: and the people of America would not stay this is
1:21:35
Speaker 2: what you're spending our fucking government harder and government money on.
1:21:39
Speaker 2: You know what, what is all what is going on here?
1:21:43
Speaker 2: You know, there was a there would be a big blowback.
1:21:47
Speaker 2: So even if you think for a second, which I don't,
1:21:54
Speaker 2: that the CIA as an entity wanted to take out
1:21:59
Speaker 2: Kennedy and his administration. I just don't see them performing
1:22:07
Speaker 2: an overt coup like that in the United States, not
1:22:15
Speaker 2: officially anyway, not officially. Now. Could there been a rogue
1:22:21
Speaker 2: officer who kind of put together a ragtag team and
1:22:25
Speaker 2: a plan, sure, sure, But I think the CIA is
1:22:30
Speaker 2: an entity. When you want to start blaming them and
1:22:32
Speaker 2: Alan Dulles and all this jazz, I'm just not buying it.
1:22:38
Speaker 2: But anyway, I'm rambling, But you know, I wanted to
1:22:43
Speaker 2: take you through like the powers that be that are
1:22:48
Speaker 2: associated with this thing, and just take a quick look
1:22:51
Speaker 2: at him and let you know where I'm at in
1:22:53
Speaker 2: my headspace right about now when it comes to how
1:22:57
Speaker 2: what they did affected the assassination, whether or be for
1:23:00
Speaker 2: good or bad things like that, where are we at?
1:23:06
Speaker 2: I don't know. It seems to be the way we
1:23:10
Speaker 2: end most of our episodes around here. It's just one
1:23:15
Speaker 2: of those things. It's very hard to figure out. But
1:23:18
Speaker 2: when you start breaking down the internal structures of the CIA,
1:23:22
Speaker 2: and you see how many departments there were, and how
1:23:25
Speaker 2: many people in each department, and who knew what and
1:23:28
Speaker 2: what they were doing here and what was going on
1:23:29
Speaker 2: over there. Look, these folks loved plausible deniability. That's why
1:23:38
Speaker 2: they wanted the mafia. That's why they paid the mafia
1:23:41
Speaker 2: to do their dirty work form or attempt to. That's
1:23:47
Speaker 2: why they paid the anti cast Cuban exiles to do
1:23:50
Speaker 2: their dirty work form or at least attempt to. It's
1:23:56
Speaker 2: so things could not be tied directly back to them
1:24:00
Speaker 2: as an entity. It's why these handlers that you see
1:24:06
Speaker 2: have seven different akas and pseudonyms and you know, things
1:24:14
Speaker 2: like this, because and backstoped identities, because they were acting
1:24:23
Speaker 2: like different people to different people. It's very interesting, the
1:24:31
Speaker 2: whole structure of everything, and I could talk about it
1:24:36
Speaker 2: for days. I love it. But that's just where I'm
1:24:40
Speaker 2: at with all aspects of the law enforcement and protection
1:24:44
Speaker 2: of the president that day, and of course the investigation
1:24:47
Speaker 2: and the aftermath and all the official bodies that had
1:24:53
Speaker 2: anything to do with looking into it or like I said,
1:24:56
Speaker 2: being part of it, either before or after the assassination.
1:25:02
Speaker 2: But anyway, that's it for me. I've rambled enough, damn it,
1:25:07
Speaker 2: And I gotta tickle. I gotta tickle in my pickle ah.
1:25:15
Speaker 2: That lets me know I've talked too much. Of course,
1:25:18
Speaker 2: Dr Pepper ain't helping. Pardon me. All right, folks. That's
1:25:23
Speaker 2: it for me rambling. Until next time, folks, I am
1:25:29
Speaker 2: Big Bad Bob and this is the part of the
1:25:33
Speaker 2: Lonegoming Podcast Random Research Ramblings. We'll see you soon for
1:25:37
Speaker 2: some more me running my lips until then, Piece Reason
1:25:47
Speaker 2: Tramways
1:26:02
Speaker 3: Mis