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Browns Built the Offense for a FULL Shedeur Evaluation in 2026 - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 7/14/26 · The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast

0:02
[SPEAKER_03]: It's in our blood, it's in our bones Orange and brown, yeah, we ride for our own Like a dog, peg runnin' We ain't a long game, big cums Get ready for the show It's our call, it's our walk, it's our song We stand tall, yeah, we've been here all alone Through it all the dog, pounds, then it's strong We all, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah
0:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we all dogs welcome to the dogs podcast with your hopes Blake Reneker just in Charles, Kenny Mack and John Shaw
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, what's up, everybody?
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to another episode of the Dog's Podcast Jaws Show, and I've got a very special guest sitting here with me.
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Virtually, tonight, this is Mac Blank.
0:46
[SPEAKER_01]: This is your at the Buffalo, THA, underscore Buffalo on X, and I recommend everybody give them a follow.
0:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I want to put his hand out there right away because
0:58
[SPEAKER_01]: his content is fire and it's honestly where we connected.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I was following his stuff and think, man, this guy, it's guy knows his stuff.
1:06
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a writer for dog pound daily and I told him, I'm going to call him the master of threads because that's what he does very well on X and very thorough.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Your film breakdown stuff is phenomenal.
1:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So I hope everybody will go check it out and give you a follow like I said.
1:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, hey, you know, I appreciate the introduction, you know, it's, I will always be thankful for anyone that's like following me and willing to like actually listen and read because I know a lot of times it's just word vomit and I think that's probably the most difficult thing about all this is that, you know, I got a million words, but I got to try to at least compress it down because, you know, for
1:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't, I still have a met one person and I'm including my girlfriend in this that's willing to sit through everything that comes out of my mouth.
2:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But no, I appreciate you having me on you guys have been great and especially like I sort of remember you guys tagging me way back when this probably would have been like a year ago.
2:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And the funny thing is so I found this podcast,
2:17
[SPEAKER_02]: because my mom had sent it to me.
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So she's a, you know, she's a big Facebook mom.
2:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And she saw you guys on there.
2:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And she goes, she goes, is this you?
2:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there, are they tagging you?
2:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, yes, mom, that's me.
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And she goes, well, did you see that you're on this podcast?
2:33
[SPEAKER_02]: This big podcast look, look at how many funny.
2:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was so funny.
2:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's how I started looking into you guys.
2:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, again, the second I saw that message pop up.
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, this is a great opportunity.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I'm really appreciative of your time tonight, joining me, really, we're just going to talk around as football.
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got training camp coming up here in a couple of weeks or so.
2:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And the guys are going to get back into Borea.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Get ready for the season.
3:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And
3:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I, I'm not a film breakdown guru.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that like we were talking before the show that was just beaten into you during college and how to break down film and you're, you're really good.
3:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you picked that up.
3:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You're really good at that.
3:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm more on, let me break down some deeper analytics, some metrics, some stats that kind of stuff and then come out of it from obviously a Browns fan perspective because that's what we do here on the show.
3:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But.
3:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess let's start with everybody's favorite topic, the quarterbacks, and you know, you're on X, it's a nasty world out there and I feel like anytime you even whisper anything about Shador Sanders, you're getting attacked from both sides, whether you're speaking positively about him or you're criticizing something about him, it's a nightmare, but
3:53
[SPEAKER_01]: just keep on pushing forward.
3:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess from the film perspective, I know you're very high on Shidorah Sanders and what his CEO, I don't even know about ceiling, but just what he can do in year to the improvements that he could make coming off of those seven games as a rookie.
4:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So just talk to me about that from a high level.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you see from Shidorah gives you optimism?
4:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, I just see like the general elevation of the offense, and I know that's a weird thing to say when he was three and four as a starter, and I know that like the stats aren't great, but you know, I look at it as, and maybe it's just the former offensive lineman in me, but every time that I look at a quarterback, I always look at the environment.
4:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And Shodor Sanders probably had the roughest environment of any of any browns QB with probably the exception of like the Sean Kaiser.
4:48
[SPEAKER_02]: But even then I would you could argue that that 7 2017 offensive line is a lot better than what they should out there.
4:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean we're looking at starting left tackles came Robinson.
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Kim Robinsick got traded in before the London game, which I believe was week five.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So he wasn't even in the plan for left tackle.
5:09
[SPEAKER_02]: He struggled that year.
5:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You had Joe Patonio who, you know, I think he's going to be at least in Hall of Fame conversations, but he did also retire.
5:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did he retire?
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he told,
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: numerous people through the media, you know, that he would come into the training facility not being able to walk on Monday.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so, you know, his, his body just wasn't holding up.
5:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So, no offense to Joel, but, you know, that's not an ideal situation.
5:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, for your left guard, you look at Ethan Poshik.
5:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Ethan Poshik who's been, you know, bottom 10 in the league in terms of overall PFF grades for the past two years to 28th in 2024, 22nd this past year.
5:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have Wyatt Teller who had his worst year, you know, as a Cleveland Brown.
5:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, at Wright Tackle,
5:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really don't want to get on KT-Leviston.
6:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, he's an excellent run blocker.
6:05
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, he was traded for a seventh round pick for a reason.
6:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's a developmental guy.
6:10
[SPEAKER_02]: He's still, you know, learning how to pass protect.
6:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was a lot of times where, you know, both cameras, Robinson, and KT-Leviston were left on an island without any ships, without any double teams.
6:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, that's where,
6:26
[SPEAKER_02]: the offensive line was just kind of make shift and thrown together and it wasn't great.
6:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have that.
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you have to the point to where, you know, with that comes no run game.
6:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's pretty hard as a quarterback when you're going into every third down where it's 10 plus yards to the stick.
6:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Not ideal.
6:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, you have no run game and then your best
6:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he did get all provotes, but he also only had seven hundred yards receiving.
6:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So seven hundred yards receiving tight end is your best weapon.
7:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, that's not ideal.
7:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But still, you know, sure.
7:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Sanders showed toughness.
7:05
[SPEAKER_02]: He isn't, you know, he never blamed any of his teammates.
7:08
[SPEAKER_02]: He never came out and said, you know, in in press conferences, hey, this happened or this guy did do his job or this and that, you know, he owned all of that.
7:17
[SPEAKER_02]: He took all of those beatings and the crazy part about it is is that, you know, everybody was harping on him for, for two things coming out of the draft.
7:28
[SPEAKER_02]: One was arm strength.
7:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um, that got disproved immediately.
7:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and the gave against Las Vegas.
7:35
[SPEAKER_02]: That was just hilarious.
7:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Um,
7:38
[SPEAKER_02]: to me personally because I know I didn't see any issue at Colorado but there was a oh it could get his arm hold up very much did and then the second one was taking sacks and that was a legitimate issue you know we saw that in the last preseason game against the Rams you know he had a ten-seated drift backwards but he really worked on that and you know a 17.6 sack to pressure ratio is not half bad.
8:05
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, and it was better than a lot of the rookies, you know, that played last year.
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and he showed an ability to also run and take off.
8:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe it was either two or three games where he ended up leading the Browns and rushing that game, which is crazy as a rookie quarterback to be to be doing.
8:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And it wasn't just that he was gaining yards, but he was also a smart runner.
8:30
[SPEAKER_02]: right, he was making sure that he was sliding, not taking the unnecessary hits, really trying to extend the play and then you know, go for the first out.
8:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, there was just a lot of stuff working against him and we're not even going to get into the reps, right?
8:47
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not even going to get into the fact that he came into camp as like the fourth string QB and then somehow like made his way into, you know, into starting position because
8:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, I get it.
9:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I get a lot of the backlash to where people are saying, oh, well, like, that's who's going to get a forestry in quarterback reps in camp.
9:08
[SPEAKER_02]: That's very true.
9:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the end of the day, you need to be able to practice these plays, right?
9:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to be able to know what you're doing.
9:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You need that hands-on,
9:19
[SPEAKER_02]: you know experience and practice so that way you can take it to the game field and we we did see him you know make those improvements throughout the year and was it ugly a time sure but you know to win three games in his position I mean especially the bangles game now was
9:36
[SPEAKER_02]: was it great to start out the game?
9:37
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but like, you know, he was playing a game without Quint John Jugg gets in Harold Fannett, you know, his two best weapons, you know, last year.
9:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So he ended up still leaving a, you know, a scoring drive right to where Andre Smith went out and kicked the field goal.
9:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought what was really great about that moment is earlier in the year.
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of people talk about this.
10:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when everybody talks about QB, they talk about leadership, right?
10:03
[SPEAKER_02]: They talk about rallying the troops, you know, elevating everyone else's play.
10:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, who was talking on Dr. Schmidt week one after he, you know, bleached two kicks against the bank?
10:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, or Sanders?
10:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I loved it when it came out, and I didn't see it at the time, but, you know, they did that, they did that mic up, whatever.
10:23
[SPEAKER_02]: you know that they actually do and it was it was should doors time and you know he's walking out of the field as uh uh he's walking around while Andre Schmidt set up the kick and he's he keeps telling him he's he's gonna make it he's gonna make it and he put it right through um and you know it's it's things like that right it's the you know not blaming teammates it's the you know talking guys up being being that positive influence you know overcoming the
10:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, you know, at the end of the day, he's not trying to prove doubters wrong.
10:58
[SPEAKER_02]: He's trying to prove himself right.
11:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was even quoted saying that, you know, he, um, I forget who was the person interviewing him, um, you know,
11:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Before it was either before or after the Vegas game, you know, where he tells tells them like hey I'm trying to show them that I'm the one that they're looking for like full ownership that like even even says a lot of things so you know that gives me hope and especially with the Browns
11:27
[SPEAKER_02]: trusting it.
11:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I did think that it was smart kind of going with the approach of we're going to build everything up besides the quarterback room and just see what we got there because, you know, and as much as I talk.
11:43
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, badly on to Sean Watson, you know, he still is that veteran quarterback, right, that gives you that kind of option if everything bottoms out with Shidorah, which I don't think that it will, but you know, in their head, that's their thinking, right, you know, one last go around, let's really do see if it was the play calling, let's really do see if it was just injuries, which I don't believe, but you know, that's that's their thinking there.
12:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but they really invested, you know, in the offensive line, you know, they did do what they usually don't do.
12:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And they doubled up on a position when picking, right, you know, picking Casey conception and Denzel Boston back to back like that.
12:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I haven't seen that in the first two rounds ever as a Browns fan.
12:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Usually it's like, okay, we're going to grab one at this position way to couple rounds and then grab another guy, right?
12:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But when we see them do that back to back.
12:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But I really like that.
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: That's way to a third and then we'll do this.
12:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
12:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So it really, it really gives me hope because it's like, okay, if this is what he was doing with this roster around him.
12:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Now let's give him a full off season.
12:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Now let's give him a better offense play collar in my opinion, Todd Bunkin versus Stephanski, who in no offense to Kevin, but he has a mold.
13:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you don't fit that mold, he struggles.
13:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, that shout is Todd Munkin's more flexible.
13:14
[SPEAKER_02]: He's had more experience in college, you know, with these college guys.
13:19
[SPEAKER_02]: He's had several different offenses.
13:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have a more flexible play car.
13:22
[SPEAKER_02]: You have a better old line.
13:23
[SPEAKER_02]: You have better white receivers.
13:26
[SPEAKER_02]: a whole off season to just let that all melt together.
13:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So it gives me, it gives me a lot of hope of the quarterback position.
13:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And for the first time, it kind of seems like we're we're actually investing in a young quarterback instead of just saying, oh well,
13:43
[SPEAKER_02]: He didn't do anything that we wanted him to do and we're ignoring the situation, we're gonna move on.
13:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they've done that before.
13:51
[SPEAKER_02]: They did that with the Sean Kaiser.
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Now was the Sean Kaiser struggling out of the field.
13:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, but the team was winless.
13:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can't just blame it all on the quarterback.
14:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm glad that they're doing this and they're giving Shidorah one more shot because we do,
14:07
[SPEAKER_02]: in all reality, you know, I can throw out all these stats, all these facts and whatever, but we're not going to know until rubber hits the road week one, but you know, giving that opportunity, I think is going to really put them in a good position because if it all but again, I don't think this is going to happen, but let's just say it all falls out, right?
14:27
[SPEAKER_02]: The quarterbacks, none of them are good.
14:29
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing of value and they got to go draft one.
14:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Well,
14:32
[SPEAKER_02]: they now have a legitimate starting five on the offensive line, and they have good receivers to throw to plus a war course back, you know, and quench on junk in.
14:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So everything's already to go if the quarterback position to the workout.
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And one thing I always push back on people when they say, well, you know, he wasn't good at this or that statter, this category or whatever, I'm like, what were your expectations then?
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what did you think he was going to do if you're saying, well, he suck last year.
14:58
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you think he was going to do as a rookie with, like you said, no training camp reps whatsoever coming in there with a, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: the worst offensive line, what did you, what did people honestly think he was going to do?
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I'm like, he actually outperformed my expectations for him because, you know, you mentioned, again, the training camp rep.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So you look at a guy like Cam Ward.
15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Cam Ward, rookie quarterback, had the entire summer, all training camp taking first team reps. Like, they were prepping him to be the starter to play NFL football.
15:28
[SPEAKER_01]: getting him up to game speed and making the transition from college to NFL and all that.
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he got the entire season to do that.
15:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Should Dord didn't get any of that opportunity until week 12.
15:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually week 11 when he got thrust out there after halftime and like Wyatt teller said the offensive line had to learn his cadence in the tunnel at halftime.
15:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So you know he wasn't getting a whole lot of work and practice if the starting offensive line doesn't even know the guy's cadence.
15:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the backup quarterback by the way.
15:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was just all that stuff was really crazy to me and
15:56
[SPEAKER_01]: another thing you said there about the sacks.
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it when people started throwing around.
16:00
[SPEAKER_01]: All we did was take sacks.
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But what people don't understand, you mentioned the pressure to sack ratio, 17.6% pressure to sack ratio.
16:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That was middle of the league, league average, 17.6.
16:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It definitely wasn't the worst.
16:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It definitely wasn't the best, but league average.
16:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But then if I did this the other day and I'm going to do a full breakdown on this on a social
16:23
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at how often he was pressured on his dropbacks, it was 50, I'm sorry, let me sort that one.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: 51.4% of his dropbacks, he was pressured on.
16:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the highest in the entire NFL, the next highest was 44.6.
16:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So no quarterback phase pressure at the rate that he did.
16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a rookie and you only had a 17.6% pressure to sack ratio and then if you, I did a little math and he's actually top five in pressure to sack ratio when you factor in the percent of dropbacks in which he was pressured on.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That number comes out to be 34.3, which is the fifth best in the league.
17:05
[SPEAKER_01]: When I saw that, I was like, oh, so he was navigating the pocket.
17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he was reading the pressure while he was handling it.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't taking sacks like everybody likes to claim in relation to how often he had the opportunity to be sacked, I guess is what I'm saying.
17:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and, you know, that's, that's all that you can ask for for a quarterback that was trying to learn the offense on the fly with, you know, and shift offensive line and like.
17:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the conversation would have been a lot different.
17:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know I've put that out there.
17:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that you've put this out there.
17:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But how different do you think that this would have gone if instead of gauge larvaed in, trying to make the first catch on that end zone shot against the Ravens, replace that with David Boston?
17:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that goes different?
17:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I believe that that goes different, right?
17:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And nothing against Gageal Arvidand, but, you know, he's just not a contested catch got, right?
18:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and how many times have we seen, right?
18:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, exactly.
18:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, he, he outperformed his expectations coming into the season already.
18:12
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't think that he was gonna make the roster, he ended up doing it.
18:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, he played okay, but like, he's not one of these guys that will go up and get it and make 50, 50 ball in 80, 20.
18:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
18:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, how different would this conversation go?
18:29
[SPEAKER_02]: If Jerry Judy didn't have the ball ripped out of him, you know, against the Chicago DB in the end, so.
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
18:37
[SPEAKER_02]: How different would this coffee?
18:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, how different would this conversation be?
18:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
18:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the one thing that everybody does want to take, take into consideration.
18:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, why sports media so frustrating, you know,
18:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, another thing too, how different with the conversation, all he only won three games.
18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, first of all, that's more than any other quarterback in the last two years as one on this Cleveland Browns offense.
19:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing is how different with that, I mean, he should have won four games because there's no reason to lose that Tennessee Titans game.
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so pissed off.
19:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, look, we actually did that game live.
19:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We, we live streamed our podcast during that game.
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We're sitting there like,
19:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are we going for two?
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we doing?
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We're only down by 14.
19:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to go for two, just unbelievable.
19:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the play call, I was so done with Kevin.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I'm out, just get him.
19:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm done.
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't watch this anymore.
19:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I just can't believe we let the two win Tennessee Titans who had the worst offense about put them.
19:40
[SPEAKER_01]: We had all season come into our house and run all over us, like the defense was terrible.
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: unbelievable.
19:47
[SPEAKER_02]: The watching the defense of film against Tennessee Titans was a very tough watch for me just because you realize how much the front seven missed Malik Collins with how well he disrupted and reset the line of scrimmage.
20:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when you have a guy that can do that and is in the back wheel backfield frequently, it makes it a lot easier for everyone else
20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: when you have that, not everybody behind him has to be assignments sound and fully in their gap.
20:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you don't get that, and one guy is out of their gap, it can blow everything up, and it was a tough watch.
20:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And going back to your point about play calling and going for two, that's kind of what
20:36
[SPEAKER_02]: like what got Kevin fired in the end.
20:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And we saw this not just last year, but in years past to where it was so focused on that play calling script.
20:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's so focused on, okay, in this scenario within this, no matter what we're gonna call this play.
20:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But it didn't make sense for the time because you're not taking in the other factors that have gone on the course of the game.
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: For example, that first two-point conversion, who is the center, Luke Whippler?
21:05
[SPEAKER_02]: why is that significant?
21:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Ethan Posick tore his Achilles earlier in the game.
21:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So Luke Whippler had not practiced that two point play with Shidorah Sanders in practice, right?
21:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It was an under-center step, which ended up being brought.
21:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And whether that's on Shidorah, whether that's on Luke or whether that's on the both of them, the reality is that they didn't practice that enough with each other.
21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I mean, that's just kind of
21:34
[SPEAKER_02]: a just summing up of the of the events that have been happening, you know, on offense and why I'm so thankful, you know, that they went with Todd Munkin.
21:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I was legitimately terrified and no offense to, you know, a great Udinsky and a Schneal House, but, you know, they've never called place before as an offense of Lake Haller.
21:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, you know, is that significant?
22:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that not significant?
22:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you could make conversations either way, but to be a first time head coach and a first time play caller, that's rough.
22:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And that can lead to a lot of growing pains.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: This episode is sponsored by Kaoshi.
22:18
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23:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but with Todd Munkin, you know, he's been doing this for years.
23:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Now he's never been, you know, a head coach at the NFL level.
23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but he knows how to put an organized offense together.
23:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought what was really interesting, um, I don't know how much you listen to Cleveland Browns daily, but I'm a nut for it.
23:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I really am.
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, you know, they were talking about how much they noticed.
23:48
[SPEAKER_02]: like how many plays that they practice, right?
23:53
[SPEAKER_02]: How many times, because apparently the Browns now have a period in practice where it's just a lineup, a snap, and they immediately call the play dead.
24:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I, for the life of me, I can't remember what they called it, but it was just a play period to where they line up, they do their motion, they snap the ball, they call the play dead, all right, let's run another play.
24:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So, operationally, they're trying to get better, which is great because, you know, yeah, so per NFL penalties.com, the Browns have been top five in most in most pre-stap penalties in four out of the six years that Kevin's fans he's been here.
24:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, right?
24:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's really making me excited for this offense because at the very least, it's going to be more organized.
24:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And nothing is more frustrating than self-inflicting penalties, because we're both browns fans.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen it time and time again.
24:55
[SPEAKER_02]: How many times we see a
24:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
24:58
[SPEAKER_02]: How many times are you in a bad play and then you get salt in the wound.
25:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
25:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey.
25:03
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, you know, this is a legal formation.
25:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
25:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, or legal motion or a guy didn't get set.
25:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just like, that's what you can help.
25:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, okay, like an offensive lineman blows an assignment.
25:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you know, a wide receiver, you know, is an inch off in running his route.
25:27
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he doesn't round it quite correctly and, you know, a DB cuts in front of him.
25:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, like those things happen.
25:33
[SPEAKER_02]: but like in terms of getting lined up in terms of knowing your assignment in terms of being prepared.
25:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's the stuff that you can control and that's what I'm seeing early on from Todd Munkin that's really giving me hope for this offense.
25:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Because at the very least, you know, will they be top five probably not, but they'll at least be organized which will give them a fighting chance to win.
25:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you're not organized and you don't have any idea what you're doing, you're not gonna win.
25:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially, frankly.
25:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're absolutely right.
26:01
[SPEAKER_01]: The second and 20 just drives me nuts all the time because it's like, yeah.
26:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Or what I guess, I guess, first and 20, which then goes the second and 20 because we try to, I don't know, run the ball and we get no yards because we can't block or we throw an inch, but whatever.
26:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh my gosh, this drive is dead.
26:18
[SPEAKER_01]: dead and it's just I every week I complained on this show and we we had our fights on this show back and forth between the hosts about Kevin and I just couldn't stand the lack of discipline like you're talking about the constant penalties and a lot of times it just didn't look like guys knew what they were doing which they
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: might not have because again you've got UDFA some practice squad players and guys coming in randomly like you said cam Robinson randomly in week five or whatever it was now he's the starting left tackle he hasn't been here you know more than a day and by the way cam Robinson still free agent everybody uh nobody signing him so that was your left tackle last year it's just it was a whole
26:57
[SPEAKER_01]: a whole bag of bad last year, man.
26:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, I'm glad it's over.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very excited just to, because it can't get a whole lot worse.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it can always get worse, but I can't imagine it getting worse than that.
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially with the additions that we brought in here, the new players, the rookies, the veterans on the O-line, which you said you did like a whole thread about Zion Johnson, right?
27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, can you just give me a quick rundown of what you found about Zion Johnson, what your expectations are?
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know there's been some mix like okay, we like the pros, we like what he's got but there's also been the disappointment in LA and all that so what what were your findings on him?
27:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I first thought, I was a bit torn because I know that he was a healthy guy.
27:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I know he was a legit starter, right?
27:50
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not some scrub, but he has struggled a lot in past protection.
27:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Like great run blocker, he's a typical malling guard, right?
28:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Good size, you know, all the intangibles, and that's fine, but he did struggle in past protection.
28:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So one of the things that I wanted to do and I was like, okay,
28:09
[SPEAKER_02]: let's find out how bad this guy is.
28:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So what do I do?
28:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I throw on the game against the Patriots that wildcard to where they got absolutely just throw out a pawn offense.
28:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I found was a guy that
28:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's technique is just a little bit off, right, you know, he's not coming back as flat as he should in past protection.
28:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So, one of the things that I look for in guards and tackles is how they move back.
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Because when the pocket, you know, makes that you shape eventually, you're going to have to make your way back to the ball.
28:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, somebody's going to, somebody's going to rush up field and either a stunt or a twist or maybe even, you know, the rushers is working back that way.
29:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have to come back.
29:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you do, you have to come flat because if you, if you come back this way, like turning yourself, you're just opening up
29:13
[SPEAKER_02]: for a path to the quarterback.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was a few times where he didn't do that so well.
29:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that there's just techniques like that.
29:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought his hand placement's pretty good.
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: He can definitely drive guys.
29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't have an issue in terms of strength or in terms of footwork.
29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that he can really, and the Browns did admit that they paid for potential.
29:38
[SPEAKER_02]: you know here so they're making an investment in a guy and they're saying okay you have all the intangibles you're you know you're legitimate you don't have any injury history you know you shown up year after year and you're you're legitimate starter you're you are one of the 64 guys in this league that can start at guard
29:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, but the good thing is is that they're handing this guy to George Warop and George Warop is one of those You know, he he's in the conversation with Bill Kallahan has like top offense offensive blind coaches to ever come in the game And that's something me saying that that's guys like Joe Thomas saying that you know
30:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I think it's going to be really cool to see his development, because like again, I think there's new answers to his game that are a little rough around the edges, but it's not like, hey, the Browns just paid a bunch of money to this bomb because they needed somebody to take up the spot.
30:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that there's something there that if he puts in the work, which I think that he can, you know, there's no way that you're a starting guard in the NFL for four straight years without being able to put the work in.
30:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I think that it's going to be one of those things.
30:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, he would be out of the out of the five.
31:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say that he's the guy to most pay attention
31:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, outside of who's going to be the fifth starter, I think that he's the biggest question mark right now, because again, you know, the Browns paid for potential, not really production, but we've seen that workout before, I mean, you know, Jerry Judy did have that big season in 2024, you know, so that worked out for one year.
31:27
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, there's instances across the leap where guys pay for potential and it works out.
31:32
[SPEAKER_02]: There's instances where it doesn't.
31:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, he's, he's, he's definitely my, my gotta watch there, but, but again, I think that there's something there.
31:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, sometimes we pay guys for production and it doesn't work out.
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we pay I'm $230 million.
31:46
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not work out at all.
31:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But the way Andrew Barry's built this roster right now and that the type of players that he's bringing in here, I would imagine like you're saying Zion Johnson, he's willing to put in the work.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He's, they're not gonna invest all this draft capital and cap space and everything and these players who are
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, hard workers, good football players, good people, leaders, type, you know, they're building a new culture here.
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're going to spend all this money on a guy who's, like, like a bomber, you know, he's lazy or something.
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they know what they're doing.
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I feel like they know what they're trying to get with this culture.
32:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And with his eye on Johnson, the hope is definitely he just needs coached correctly.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Because maybe he just hasn't had the right coach to, like you said, get that technique right.
32:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And speaking of technique, one big thing, just kind of done on me, you know, the way that he passboxes against the bull rush.
32:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't care how big you are as an offensive lineman.
32:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Passball game bull rush is pretty hard because you're basically stopping a train.
32:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
32:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You're just staying still.
33:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not.
33:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You're standing still and you're basically
33:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So, a common technique that they teach is hopping, right?
33:12
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you flip on the tape, guys that get bull-rushed, their problem is that they walk back, right, that they don't have two feet on the ground at the same time.
33:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Hopping allows you to do that and still keep the guide as arms length so you're more or less just kind of hopping and anchoring as you're doing it as you're like hopping back, right?
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of the times, especially against you, England, I mean, Christian barn war just like just took him by the shoulder pads and just put him in the backfield.
33:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was just a common thing that I'm just seeing like clip after clip and it's and it's just like,
33:51
[SPEAKER_02]: like you you see the effort is there you see the attention to detail is there you see the hand place with there you see the tenacity but like again it's the coming back you know flat in pass protection it's the you know the way your feet are set against the bull rush it's it's it's things like that that I feel like George Warhop can clean up
34:10
[SPEAKER_02]: and I'm pretty sure that these are the conversations that Andrew Barry and Catherine Hickman had, you know, and Glenn Cook, you know, I'm pretty sure that those are the conversations that they had saying, like, okay, you know, like we have the, you know, you
34:26
[SPEAKER_02]: We have all the intangibles here.
34:28
[SPEAKER_02]: We just need to clean some things up and we can get this guy going.
34:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And George Warhop is going to be one of those guys because, you know, I don't know how much you've looked into George Warhop at every time that I see pictures or clips of this guy.
34:43
[SPEAKER_02]: He's out.
34:44
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the one holding the back.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's got his knee brace on just out there like put hands on guys and getting in guys chest and showing them like hey like I'm going to hold this bag like you're you're going to hit this and like that's the kind of kind of and I hate to bring up this name just because of what's been going on in the new cycle the past couple of months, but that's how Mike frable was when he was here helping coach the line when he had it take over for what's his face when he came for now.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Dickerson.
35:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Andy Dickerson.
35:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
35:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
35:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Andy Dickerson.
35:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
35:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So when Mike Rable took over for Andy Dickerson, which that that's a whole crazy conversation itself.
35:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But that was the thing that he was doing.
35:28
[SPEAKER_02]: He was he was putting himself on scout team, you know, and practicing big, let's pick up and how to combat stunts.
35:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because when we're talking about like coaching up this online, you know, you could say this
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: really the old line is whole last year, is that technically, they were not technically sound.
35:50
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the, one of the probably the worst outings that I've seen as an offensive line from, from the past predictions standpoint, is that second half against the ravens.
36:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, granted, you know, they were trying to figure out, should or snap count.
36:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So that doesn't help, you know, especially when the offensive line knows when you're firing off the ball.
36:09
[SPEAKER_02]: it's kind of hard to do, but you know, there were times against stunts, so for the people listening at home, you know, it's instead of a straightforward rush, you have guys under an overlapping, each other kind of an aloofing fashion, which is common in the NFL.
36:27
[SPEAKER_02]: But when that happens, you're supposed to pass the guy off.
36:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if your guy's going left, you pass them off to the guy to your guy to your left and you pick up the looper.
36:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But what was happening
36:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how many times where I saw Heaven Jenkins or KT Levinson Hell happened a camera opposite a couple of times to where they would follow their guy and they would start out You know on the right or left side of the, you know, the ball and they would end on the complete other side Right and like I don't I don't know what
37:03
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's just, it's just crazy to me, because especially you don't think that, and I think that that's a common misconception in the NFL, because people are so fascinated with star power and names and it's like, okay, if you get the best guys, you're gonna have the best chance to win.
37:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Coaching still matters.
37:21
[SPEAKER_02]: These guys still need coached up.
37:23
[SPEAKER_02]: These guys still need someone to get in their face once a while and say, hey, this is how you actually have to do it
37:32
[SPEAKER_02]: football's been around for so long to where there are still techniques from back then that they're still using today.
37:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And those need to be applied, right?
37:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when you're picking up stunts or, you know, you're anchoring yourself against the bull rush, like things like that.
37:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really do think not for Zion, not just for Zion, Johnson, but I think, you know, guys like Katie Levinson that are coming back.
37:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Heaven Jenkins that's coming back.
37:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, I really do think that that coaching change at the offense line is going to have a massive impact, you know, especially just because of the guys that they've worked with.
38:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, outside of Tyler Lenderbomb, there's not really been exactly like a all-pro type player on that Raven's offensive line, but yet they've had one of the best, you know, run blocking lines at the end of
38:21
[SPEAKER_02]: felt, yet they've, you know, been in an offensive line that can not only pass back well, but they can pass back well for a mobile quarterback, which is rare.
38:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you don't know where a quarterback's going, it makes pass protection and absolute nightmares and offensive linemen.
38:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you don't know where you're dropping.
38:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we don't know where to force your guy because you don't know where the guy behind you is.
38:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So, of course, I would write it right into where the where he is, where he's going.
38:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
38:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's.
38:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, so I'm, I'm really looking forward to his impact, you know, George Warholps impact on the office flying this year because, you know, again, not just for Zion Johnson, but these other guys, you know, helping clean up their technique.
39:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, Joe Thomas will tell you himself.
39:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, offensive line is 90% technique.
39:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes me question even more that the Sean Watson trade.
39:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I feel like everything with Kevin was, you heard it all the time.
39:21
[SPEAKER_01]: This, you know, on time, rhythm-based passing, yada, yada, yada.
39:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So why did you go get a backyard ball quarterback?
39:30
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're not going to coach your offensive line to, you know, I don't know, handle that type of guy behind you.
39:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of wild.
39:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, and you tell me what, if you think I'm right or wrong about this, I feel like the Browns, and this speaks to your assessment on Zion Johnson, you know, you look at a guy like that with all the potential there to become a good pass blocker.
39:52
[SPEAKER_01]: If you get the technique right, right, and you can work on it, but he's already a solid run blocker.
39:56
[SPEAKER_01]: He's already good in that part of the game.
39:59
[SPEAKER_01]: and they bring over Todd Monk and they bring over uh... switcher who was what the run game coordinator in Baltimore now the offensive coordinator you got and the former d one center and accurate so he's an offensive line that's right that's right yes so
40:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like they brought a lot of people in here who specialize in the run game.
40:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like that is what the Browns are going to do this season.
40:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I anticipate this to be a heavy run team, at least to begin as we bring hopefully it should or along throughout the season, get more and more comfortable in the offense.
40:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But you've got Quinn Sean Judd, who I am still surprised he was full go, no limitations whatsoever and OTAs.
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That was impressive to me.
40:43
[SPEAKER_01]: He showed last year, legitimate NFL running back, very legit.
40:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Dylan Samson, I feel like, could also be a very good weapon running back type guy.
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think they knew how to use it last year.
40:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But do you feel that way that this is going to be a heavy emphasis on the run game this year?
41:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about heavy emphasis, but I know for a fact that they're going to get it corrected.
41:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I think it's just going to be a more or less like, hey, we're going to go with what works, but but I'll I'll say this to go along with your point, you know, I'm sure that the Brown stepped back after after, you know, firing Kevin and they looked at okay, so we obviously want to go with an offensive guy.
41:31
[SPEAKER_02]: because if it wasn't going to be an offensive guy, it was going to be shorts and say what you want about that.
41:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, you know, the NFL is offense.
41:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So you should, unless you have like an absolute like leader and you're just like, okay, this guy can rally at troops and people are going to go to war for this dude and he's going to get everything corrected.
41:50
[SPEAKER_02]: You should lean towards an offensive coach.
41:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But looking back at the 2025 offense,
41:58
[SPEAKER_02]: pass-boggling was terrible.
41:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So they knew that they would have to get a completely new offensive they know that they had no run game.
42:04
[SPEAKER_02]: They know that, you know, they were one of the worst third-down offenses in the league.
42:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so what helps solve all that?
42:13
[SPEAKER_02]: A good run game.
42:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when you have a defense that can play as well as they can, you know, if you just control the ball and minimize mistakes, you're going to win.
42:25
[SPEAKER_02]: and they saw what should or Sanders could do in play action and be able to push the ball down field.
42:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm assuming that, and I feel like it's safe to assume this, that they looked at it and they said, well, if we give Shidorah a really good run game, if we give Deshawn Watson a really good run game,
42:45
[SPEAKER_02]: we can at least make this offense middle of the league.
42:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you make the offense middle of the league, with a possible top five defense, and I'm sure that we'll get into that a little bit later, but you're gonna have a strong chance to win.
42:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And especially with how the defense has been playing, and it's not just, and I know immediately everybody's gonna say, well, they lost Miles Carey.
43:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I'll say about that.
43:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Miles Carey, it's a great past rusher, but...
43:12
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of times on first and second down where he's flying up field and that leaves you very vulnerable for a lot of stuff underneath.
43:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's kind of one of the bigger problems that I had with him in hell.
43:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You can go ahead and throw on the 2023 tape, week three against the rate of it.
43:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Or I'm sorry, week four against rate.
43:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I don't know how many times that he felt for the zone read.
43:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how many times that he fell for the, uh, you know, for the tackle trap, he fell for, you know, the, uh, the, the fullback, wham block, right?
43:45
[SPEAKER_02]: To where he's flying up, field, flying up, field, flying up, field, and then he gets caught.
43:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, you're not going to have that with your adverse.
43:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Jared verse is now he might not have the sack production, you know, and probably one of his bigger issues is just being able to close in the quarterback.
44:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's been, he's been top of league in pressures.
44:05
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not the problem.
44:06
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem for him is just being able to, you know, make the tackle, which, you know, as a second year player in league, like that's still pretty valuable to get that amount of, to get a hundred pressures, you know, from a guy,
44:20
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're going to have a very solid, stout defense that is not going to blow you the game.
44:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So you give the offense an identity, which is running the football, that's going to help out everybody.
44:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to help out the quarterback.
44:35
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to help out the offensive lineman.
44:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Ask any offensive lineman what they would prefer to do and they will tell you run walk every certain time because run blocking on first and 10 and being able to pick a pick up a couple yards is a hell of a lot better than stare down the barrel at a third nine a third knee and you know that the defensive ends don't even care about anything else other than flying up field because it's it's
45:01
[SPEAKER_02]: it just makes everything so much more difficult.
45:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I wanted to, you know, touch on the preset penalties, because that's another thing that factors into it.
45:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But to go back to your point, you know, I do think that, and again, I don't know if it's gonna be a heavy run team, but I know for a fact that they're emphasizing that run game, because they have to.
45:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you're bringing it like best case scenario, you know, you're like in terms of like looking at the quarterback room, so you have two guys right now.
45:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You have Shidorah Sanders who you, you know, we just talked about the potential right, you know, we see the flashes, you know, we have coaches talking about growth.
45:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
45:46
[SPEAKER_02]: then you have to Sean Watson who, you know, hasn't been able to see it stay upright.
45:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Add some moments way, way long ago, but you know, you have two basically, I think it's fair to say, unproved from quarterbacks.
46:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to fix that run game.
46:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to put them in position to be successful because you can't just march them out every time on a third and 10 and say, and say, hey, you know, go ahead and get me the first down because everybody on the defense is saying,
46:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And if they're going to run, it's going to be a draw or a glorified screen.
46:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, they have to get that run game taken care of.
46:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think they, they will, you know, because especially they have half the puzzle piece figured out, right?
46:31
[SPEAKER_02]: They have the align coach and they have the bell cow back.
46:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Because Quintion Juggins tape last year is insane.
46:38
[SPEAKER_02]: The things that he was able to do against versus eight nine man boxes was,
46:43
[SPEAKER_02]: absolutely astonishing.
46:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he was getting hit.
46:47
[SPEAKER_02]: He was seeing guys like,
46:49
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't even hitting a line of scrimmage and he was seeing it open to Fender that he had to make this.
46:54
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and he has probably one of the fastest five yard splits in the NFL, at least from what I'm seeing, because his burst is absolutely elite.
47:05
[SPEAKER_02]: He just needs daylight, so just give him a hole and just see what happens.
47:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's what I'm saying.
47:12
[SPEAKER_02]: If we could get to a point to where the browns,
47:15
[SPEAKER_02]: could consistently give him an opportunity to wear, he's not getting hit until he passes the line of scrimmage, they're gonna have it successful run game.
47:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's a strong guy, he reads blocks very well.
47:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And just it may be so unbelievably upset last year.
47:33
[SPEAKER_02]: when people were immediately, you know, throwing out the Trent Richardson thing, you know, they were immediately saying, hey, well, you know, he gets hit in the backfield, he gets stuffed, like this rate and it's, you know, one of the worst rates in the NFL, like that's great.
47:48
[SPEAKER_02]: You could put any running back back there and he will look like that.
47:54
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and especially the Chicago game is like what I bring up frequently because that was where I just really thought that the Brown's offensive line was outmatched.
48:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, no offense to Luke Whippler, but you know, he's a smaller center in the NFL.
48:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And what you're going up against an odd front, meaning you know, you have a nose tackle, two defensive tackles, and then two edge guys.
48:20
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have a bad time if you're an undersized center because you're facing a 300 pound nose tackle and I don't care how strong you are, you know, mass plus.
48:32
[SPEAKER_02]: acceleration, you know, is not a favorable equation for a smaller center.
48:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Like Andrew Billings looked literally like an all-pro defensive tackle against Luke Whippler, just simply because he had 60 pounds on him, and he was in his, you know, in his face every single play.
48:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know,
48:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that they get it right and I think that they're going to put like, and that's what the great part about this year on offense is going to be going to be because I fully believe that they're going to have a lot of parts of the offense figured out.
49:08
[SPEAKER_02]: and it's all going to be to where, okay, we are putting the quarterback in a favorable position so we can legitimately get an evaluation out of them.
49:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And like that's the one thing that I can promise all Browns fans listening to this right now.
49:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I guarantee you that we will have a firm answer to the quarterback question at the end of the year, whether it's positive for negative, but we will have
49:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the good part about it is that at least we won't be sitting at the end of the year saying like, oh well, you know, we don't know, you know, maybe we should give this person another year or like any of that because that's that's that's the worst.
49:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the worst and and like and I'm sure if you ask any, you know, head coach or GM, like that's really hard because if you don't know where the evaluation is, your second guessing all of your moves.
49:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, at least going, like after this year, at least they're going to say, we either need a quarterback or we don't, and then that way they can start the process early and be firm with their decision-making, and firm with how they're going to go about it.
50:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So yes, I do think that they're at the very least prepare like they're going to be a heavy run team, because I think that Todd Munk is going to get it fixed.
50:30
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52:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope so, because there's, you know, you talked about, people will complain about the stuff rate and, you know, Trent Richardson, Compton, all that crap.
52:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Two stats.
52:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all I need.
52:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I need a two stats to tell me when Sean Jadkins had an elite rookie season and it was 1.4 were his yards before contact per attempt that goes exactly to what you're saying.
53:02
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as he got the ball on average, contact right away in his face, couldn't even get to the freaking line without getting hit.
53:09
[SPEAKER_01]: the other number though that offset that tremendously for me was he was top 10 in yards after contact total for the season like 500 was a 510 or something like that.
53:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, what that's that was crazy to me when I saw those numbers.
53:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think like you said, give him a little daylight and it's off to the races for jetkins.
53:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we've got out on 10 minutes or so left for we're going to wrap up here.
53:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you just give me you already talked a little bit
53:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, losing miles gear, replacing them with a verse and kind of the difference there.
53:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But overall, what did your expectation for the defense?
53:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of people say, well, they're going to take a step back, losing Jim Schwartz Blake, one of our other hosts on the show here, he's very, he thinks that it's addition by subtraction, getting rid of Jim Schwartz because he said, you know, the defense was good.
53:58
[SPEAKER_01]: but there's a lot of things they didn't do very well under Jim Schwartz and it was things that smart teams took advantage of a lot.
54:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I don't know what's your, Mike Routenburg and what's your expectations there?
54:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So with Mike Root and Berg, I think he's going to get guys to buy in really early, hearing Quincy Williams talk about him, and Quincy Williams was considered a head case over in New York, right?
54:25
[SPEAKER_02]: He was this player that, you know, that
54:29
[SPEAKER_02]: was disgruntled, didn't end his career in New York, the way that everybody thought that he would.
54:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But he starts talking about Mike Rudenberg, his old mind-backer coach, like they are best friends, and they've spent every civil day together, they're in tire lives.
54:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And that kind of gives me a little bit of hope, right?
54:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because part of the part of coaching is getting guys the buy-in.
54:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's already one part of the equation.
54:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, in terms of Jim Swartz, he did two things correctly.
54:58
[SPEAKER_02]: One was his runfits.
55:00
[SPEAKER_02]: He was in terms of the defense coordinator.
55:02
[SPEAKER_02]: He's one of the best runfits guys in the NFL.
55:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And two would just be, you know, making sure that he sends pressure, right?
55:14
[SPEAKER_02]: But what does that do?
55:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of man coverage on the back end.
55:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the Browns were one of the highest man coverage rates.
55:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And outside of that, it was majority of cover three sprinkled in with a little bit of cover two.
55:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, with Mike Roonberg, he is a younger defensive coordinator.
55:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a guy that disguises his defense a little bit more.
55:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he runs and I know the,
55:41
[SPEAKER_02]: which is gonna be really funny because one of the things that I used to criticize is Joe Woods a lot for was cover for.
55:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But Rudy runs a lot of cover for various as well.
55:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have a guy that's gonna bring a little bit more disguised, right, a little bit more nuance to the defense instead of just old school.
56:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And part of the defense nowadays is that you have to slow down the quarterbacks processing.
56:09
[SPEAKER_02]: right, you have to show them different pre-snap post-snap.
56:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to be able to make them second guess their reads and how do you do that?
56:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You do that by moving the chess pieces a little bit around the field.
56:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think Rudy is going to do that a lot more.
56:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And he, I don't know, call me crazy, but when I've seen these defenses in OTAs, they seem a lot more energetic when it comes to flying towards the football.
56:45
[SPEAKER_02]: you know a lot more turnovers and most of these turnovers that are that I've seen from these practice clips are off of bad at balls yeah yeah yeah it's not it's not just the guy you know just jumping a pass for picking up a fumble you know balls up in the air and the next thing I know defense is coming down with
57:04
[SPEAKER_02]: like that was one of the bigger things with Jim Schwartz that was, you know, one of the problems is that the the pressure was there, you know, the run defense was there, but the turnovers were coming, especially in 2024.
57:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was it was a bismally low.
57:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was fast before in terms of, you know, I believe the first turnover didn't come until week three against the giants.
57:30
[SPEAKER_02]: are actually, um, note it was, uh, week four against the commanders.
57:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a J.O.K.
57:34
[SPEAKER_02]: and reception.
57:35
[SPEAKER_02]: That was our first interception of the year.
57:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Took them four games.
57:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so, you know, with Rudy, um, I really like his defense of philosophy, um, in terms of disguising coverage, the whole ball is oxygen, quote, really gets me going because like that's the, that's the kind of mentality that they need to have on on defense because it's like they've been great, um, under gym shorts with this defense, but they haven't been
58:07
[SPEAKER_02]: a great defense is one that limits points, you know, that is a Ben don't break, right, that makes plays.
58:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But an elite defense is one that's constantly suffocating that feels like you have no outlet, you have nowhere to get the ball out to, and no answers, in terms of, you know, of a counterattack, and like that's the kind of mentality that Rudy brings,
58:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think one of the best things that and like I know trading a Hall of Famer is not ideal, right?
58:40
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not going to be anybody replacing Miles Garrett.
58:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But with Jared Vers, you're getting a better run defender.
58:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You're getting a guy that understands how to set the edge, and isn't a guy that's going to take himself out of the play to fly up field for a rush.
58:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, the the issues with the first was just more or less just like closing on the quarterback, which is, you know, easier said than done, right, you know, requires athleticism, you know, what kind of angle you're taking, are you breaking down correctly, um, you know, how sure is your tackling things of that.
59:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but.
59:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I really thought that it was cool because one of the first questions that I had with Miles, you know, after Rudy was brought in, it's just like, okay, like, what's the buy-in?
59:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
59:31
[SPEAKER_02]: What's that buy-in look like from from Miles Garrett?
59:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Because towards the end of the year, I mean, we talked about the Tennessee Titans game.
59:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You flip it on and like Miles's out of a
59:48
[SPEAKER_02]: when it's first in 10 and, you know, the running back ripped off the longest runs of his season against you guys on the last drive, like, think you should tighten it up a little bit.
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
1:00:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's, um, I have, I have high expectations for this defense.
1:00:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I really do because I think it's going to be a situation where, you know, you have all the pieces, um, now I, there's going to be questions of like, Malik Collins, what does he look like?
1:00:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Is he still going to be that only past Russia that he was last year?
1:00:23
[SPEAKER_02]: What he comes back like, how, how's that quad?
1:00:25
[SPEAKER_02]: We won't know till, you know, until we see him on the field.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but outside of that, you know, they,
1:00:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you have rising or established stars all over the defense, you know, Alex Wright just had his best season.
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_02]: He got paid.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_02]: He's going to take another step.
1:00:42
[SPEAKER_02]: You have my Isaiah McGuire, you know, who's still learning, but
1:00:47
[SPEAKER_02]: is still going to be able to make plays off the bench.
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Mason Graham's going to get better.
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_02]: My call is currently like fighting for his playing time.
1:00:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that you're going to get the best out of him.
1:00:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, linebacker you have former defensive rookie the your Carson's Westeriger.
1:01:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And Quincy Williams, who we talked about earlier, he had an old pro season in 2023. Who's his linebacker coach,
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_02]: right?
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
1:01:11
[SPEAKER_02]: You have Grant Delpit who's a Swiss Army knife, you know, whether you put him in the box, you put him at, you know, center center half out there.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have Denzo Ward and you have Tyson Campbell.
1:01:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So they have pieces.
1:01:26
[SPEAKER_02]: They just need to put it all together and tweak the scheme.
1:01:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And the the cool part about Rudy coming in is that he immediately said, I don't want to change the scheme.
1:01:34
[SPEAKER_02]: it's still going to be aggressive.
1:01:36
[SPEAKER_02]: We still want guys flying up field, you know, we still want to attack attack attack, which is great.
1:01:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I was worried for a second there was like, is this guy really going around a three four?
1:01:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, do we have to see Alex right, like stand up in the past rushing?
1:01:53
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, outside linebacker stance like it is that really what we're going to do.
1:01:56
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but he's he's still sticking with the four three, you know, he's still taking sticking with, you know, a penetrating D line instead of playing two gap right, but I think that the tweaks that he are going to, he's going to make are going to be necessary.
1:02:10
[SPEAKER_02]: because for as good as Jim Schwartz was, he was very predictable, which led to the problems that they had, right?
1:02:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that that's still gonna be that their anchor of this team, and I'm really excited especially just because like
1:02:25
[SPEAKER_02]: we don't know what Jared versus going to send to we just know how he's playing right now right right and he's top five in pressures right you know he's a great run defend run defend right he you know he plays very well horizontally down the line of skirmish setting the edge
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, you're, you're seeing teams like just run away from them because they know that if they run towards them, they're just not going to be that successful.
1:02:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is saying something, you know, considering the guy on the other end, um, was Byron Young.
1:02:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the, one of the top past wrestlers in the NFL.
1:03:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I'm excited for this defense and I have high expectations, you know, for the Browns defense of Mike root bird.
1:03:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome, man.
1:03:10
[SPEAKER_01]: The ascension aspect for Jared Versus, something I think a lot of people are just not fully taking into account when they look at that mile of Garrett trade because again, I've said this to so many different people.
1:03:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, you don't see second year guys.
1:03:25
[SPEAKER_01]: They've only been in the league two years and he's already won defensive rookie the year and like you said top whatever in pressures, like he's one of the ascending young edge rushers in the NFL.
1:03:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Teams don't trade those players.
1:03:37
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't, especially not after two seasons.
1:03:40
[SPEAKER_01]: This was such a unique situation the Browns got good draft capital on top of that player.
1:03:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was a well executed trade by Andrew Berry and the fact that the Browns were adamant that you will give us Jared verse or this trade does not happen.
1:03:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was pretty cool.
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It speaks a lot about verse.
1:03:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, and that's honestly a huge misconception that I'm still seeing with Browns fans is you know,
1:04:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You always, and I'm sure that you do this, do this as well as a, you know, a fellow content creator is the always kind of keep a mental list of like the things that you got wrong and you're just like shoot like I was wrong about that.
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But I still stand firm that the, the Browns were not going to trade Miles Garrett, they were not.
1:04:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But you threw in an ascending player and it kind of equaled out because like, you know.
1:04:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Two first round picks were not going to do it.
1:04:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they weren't going to just do picks.
1:04:37
[SPEAKER_02]: They wanted something in return.
1:04:42
[SPEAKER_02]: As much noise as there is, the browns are not actively tanking.
1:04:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who needs to hear this, but the browns are not actively tanking.
1:04:49
[SPEAKER_02]: you know they if they were actually thinking they would hire one of these young coaches right they would flip whoever they could for picks then so word would not be here a grand help it who's in a contract here he would not be here um you know you certainly wouldn't spend any money whatsoever on an on a middle linebacker um you know so Quincy Williams wouldn't be here
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, not a middle linebacker, but like a non-rushing, you know, four, three linebacker.
1:05:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You wouldn't pay the money that they did for him.
1:05:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, the Browns are legitimately going to
1:05:30
[SPEAKER_02]: like put a team out there this year, which I know is sound crazy because like you know, you zoom out and you're just like, what do you mean everybody ever seems to try to do that?
1:05:38
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but like in reality, there's legitimately trying to win this year and they're filling all the holes outside of quarterback so we can get an honest evaluation.
1:05:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of the day, you know, that's the best that we can, that's the best that they can do with the situation, you know, because we haven't even talked about, you know, the giant 230 million elephant in the room,
1:06:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So like that's the best they could do and you know, you have to kind of applaud them a little bit for it.
1:06:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
1:06:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Because like most teams just would have sunk everything fired everybody and absolutely cleaned house.
1:06:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But Jimmy didn't want to do that.
1:06:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Jimmy didn't want to go through the head coaching search alone because he knew the Paul D. But Esther was on his way out.
1:06:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it's it's nice to see them legitimately try to turn this bus around instead of just completely getting off of it and finding any vehicle.
1:06:37
[SPEAKER_01]: which I the way you're describing that just to me it seems like future number one overall pick goes to the Miami Dolphins.
1:06:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what they're doing right kind of the way they've gone about this whole rebuild down there.
1:06:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's a whole lot that they're saying well we're going to try to compete this year.
1:06:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They know what's going on.
1:06:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
1:06:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of what the Browns have done and what you just described that tells me or at least makes me
1:07:04
[SPEAKER_01]: that from a front office coaching, they have confidence and should-or Sanders, that we think that there is another level for this kid and we think we can get him there.
1:07:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, the beginning of the show or maybe in the middle, we will have the answer at the end of this year.
1:07:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he the guy we're rolling within 27 and maybe beyond?
1:07:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Or are we finding our next quarterback in 27, but we will know the answer to that question because they've built this so that we can get that evaluation.
1:07:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I mean that at the end of the day that's what you got to know because now now put it end up being the way that you know the twenty twenty six quarterback fast shook up of course a good like we don't know but looking back on it if you were to say right now what we're going to be looking at an April you're looking at several first run picks.
1:07:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're looking at Dante Moore, who's projected first run pick, I'm not a big fan of, but like, you know, projected first run pick legitimately was going to go first round and then went back to school, you know, you have arch manic, which people have been, you know,
1:08:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me for lack of words here, but glazing him since, you know, before he came to Texas You know, then you have guys like my other from USC you have sellers, you know from South Carolina You know that could that could make that jump I'm sure for getting about other guys CJ car, you know from no-to-game.
1:08:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Mensa, right?
1:08:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, dairy and Mensa as you want to it dairy and met.
1:08:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:08:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, so we know there will be a none of them
1:08:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Presumably.
1:08:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
1:08:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if there'll be a presumably.
1:08:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Presumably.
1:08:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we don't.
1:08:47
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know about that one.
1:08:48
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
1:08:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it's, it's, it's one of those things to where, you know, it's, it's just going to be exciting to have an answer.
1:08:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the, the last thing you want to do is do exactly what we're doing right here and speculating, hey, like what should we do with the quarterback room?
1:09:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Because like, it's, it's a headache for us.
1:09:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I can only imagine how it is for a head
1:09:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's paycheck is online to make that we can do it and just be like, you know what I'm done listening to people today Just I'm jumping off Twitter.
1:09:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but they shut their job.
1:09:23
[SPEAKER_01]: They can't do yeah, exactly exactly Yeah, oh man Well, um, Mac dude, I could sit here and talk to you about Browns football night like we could go hours and Who knows maybe one of these days we will?
1:09:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely want to have you back on the show.
1:09:38
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of stuff that I feel like we could have talked about I wanted to talk about I kept making notes and
1:09:43
[SPEAKER_01]: The conversation just moved on.
1:09:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll get you back on the show, especially once I think once training camp starts, I'd really like to talk to you about what you're seeing from the film clips and are you going to training camp at all?
1:09:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to work out dates right now.
1:09:57
[SPEAKER_02]: The big, not that anybody listening at home cares, but I'm a part of a gaelic football league.
1:10:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, club sport takes up a lot of my time outside of Twitter and work.
1:10:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, waiting for that season to end, which is mid-August.
1:10:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, trying to find out dates, I think I can make one.
1:10:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to coordinate with the girlfriend as well.
1:10:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I can make one if not.
1:10:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you have to.
1:10:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:10:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:10:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, no.
1:10:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm going to be able to make one if not.
1:10:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm going to be as plugged in as I possibly can just starving for the next clip and like I don't know about you, but these dog days of the NFL offseason are just so tough because there's no information.
1:10:49
[SPEAKER_02]: like give me all the new information you have this this old stuff there's only like so much I can do with it so much I can look into you know before it starts getting competitive so I or I'm sorry repetitive but yeah no I'm completely looking towards training camp because especially there's so many training camp battles and you know guys fighting for a roster spot guys fighting for a positional spot so you know it's it's definitely going to be exciting
1:11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah position battles and that kind of stuff i'd love to have you back on to talk about some of that to especially once camp get started and we get a little more information about how things are going and and everything like that but thank you very much for joining me tonight and and sharing your you know your knowledge and expertise with the fan base and the listeners and everything is just always great to get new voices on here and
1:11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: and pick your brain and stuff.
1:11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So everybody go follow Mac at THA, the obuffalo, underscore buffalo on X again.
1:11:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Master O threads, this dude puts out some, why I mean just, if you want good, solid, thorough information about your Cleveland Browns, this dude right here is a guy, go check him out.
1:11:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Mac, thanks for joining me, is there any last anything else you want to say before we wrap it up?
1:12:00
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, I mean, I just appreciate you having me on.
1:12:03
[SPEAKER_02]: We're definitely going to do this again for sure.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you know, I'm always thankful to anybody at home, anybody on socials, you know, that it's willing to listen to me because I feel like, you know, I'm, I get to rambling and word vomit, you know, every so often.
1:12:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So I always do appreciate that.
1:12:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And hey, you know, any day talking
1:12:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
1:12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
1:12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, everybody.
1:12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for tuning into another episode.
1:12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get back back on here soon, and uh, I'll talk to you guys in the next episode.
1:12:32
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1:12:56
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1:12:59
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1:13:17
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1:13:19
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