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Clint Evans, The Behavior Chef, on Building Healthy Habits · The Daily Writer

• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hey my friends, welcome to this Saturday edition of the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, summertime is now fully upon us, and with that, the opportunity to get outside and enjoy the beautiful weather.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Summer is also the perfect time to take a look at our habits related to health, wellness, exercise, and nutrition.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let's face it, let's just be honest.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to live a sedentary life as a writer, but what good is it to build a business around our writing or write lots of books or have lots of success?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: What good are those things only to lack energy and cut our lives short because we haven't taken care of ourselves?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my guest today is here to help us develop a better mindset around all of these issues.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Clint Evans, and he is the founder and creator of The Behavior Chef.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Clint is a recovering binge restrict eater and yo-yo dieter.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Clint has found success in weight loss and nutritional behavior change for himself, losing, according to personal values, over 90 pounds, and he continues to do so with the unique understanding of nutritional coaching as well as the psychological science known as applied behavior analysis.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Clint has been in the field of applied behavior analysis for the past eight years.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And after becoming a board certified behavior analyst, he noticed the field of pushing into health, sports, and fitness, but not much push was seen for specifically nutrition.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where the behavior chef was born.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Clint is currently certified by Precision Nutrition as a level one nutrition coach.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And Clint and his co-host Tony host the Behavior Chef podcast as well.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So in our conversation today, we dive into all things nutrition and wellness for writers.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Clinton gives us a rundown of what applied behavior analysis is and why it's helpful for writers, how to break out of negative health patterns with small steps, and how better eating and sleep can support your writing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really important conversation for all of us.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you do pretty well in this area, Clinton shares some great thoughts and some tips and strategies for us that can help our mindset as well as our overall health and wellness.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I really enjoyed this conversation, and I think you will as well.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get right to the conversation with my friend Clint Evans.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Clint, welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is great to have you with us, and I'm excited about our conversation.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Kent, thanks for having me.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and if you're confused and you're listening, you did hear that correctly, Clint and Kent.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's very close.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: But uh it's it's very good to be here.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So listeners um to this episode will they will not know our background, but we actually know each other from kind of a different life.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: At St.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Louis Christian College, where I used to work.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you have a background there.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So before we get into like the episode episode stuff, take a second and share like when you were at the college and how you met your wife and kind of how we knew each other from a past life.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's uh it's interesting how things wave together.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it is uh 2013.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: I came to SLCC in St.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Louis to finish my degree in I think it was called Behavioral Ministry.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's you know, psychology and theology put together.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I met my wife who has the same degree uh there in 2014.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: We started dating.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh coming up as the recording of this episode, it'll be close to six years in June that we'll be married, and we have a one-year-old, so everything's going well there.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we we met there and uh Kent and I uh actually the Sanders brothers, I should say.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Kent's uh is Don the older one, or are you the older one?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: He's the older one by I would say five years.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually four years and 40, four years and 51 weeks.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not that anybody's counting.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, nobody's counting, but uh I don't believe I actually ever had the pleasure of having Kent in class.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I did have Don for a couple things, and Kent and I just always kind of hit it off in a lunch line or uh you know, that kind of a thing.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: But Kent was always uh a vocal part of our school.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember one of your first books that I was privy to was the uh artist's suitcase.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's the one.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: I actually ended up getting a copy of that at Chapel one time, so I still have it uh around here somewhere.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's a great resource for any listeners that uh that don't have it.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you're still uh if it's still in print, I definitely recommend they pick it up.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: It is in print, it's on on Amazon.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And wherever fine books are sold, actually it's just on Amazon.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's well, that's where fine books are sold.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Where fine books are sold, I guess.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we I met my wife there, uh met Kent there.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: We uh I spent two and a half years there.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still known as the guy who took 32 credit hours in a semester, which is pretty cool.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Which which is a lot.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: I actually I just told that story the other day and said, you know, it was all fun in games because I had two jobs, 32 credit hours.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: I had a 3.7 GPA, and then I gained 40 pounds that semester.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you you had no other time to do anything except just uh study and work.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's it.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of the the life before the life of Kent and Clint.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's it's fun that we are able to connect kind of now in a different sphere, yeah, which is uh, of course, the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got a few questions here today.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I like most of my conversations, this one probably will go a different direction than I anticipate, which is the nature of conversations.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: But let's start out here, explain what it is that you do exactly with applied behavior analysis and the behavior chef.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: I by the way, I love the title, the behavior chef.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: That is a great, great title.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I anticipate a book at some point that'll have that title in it, maybe, or subtitle.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: There are some things in the works, yes.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, cool.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, give us kind of a rundown of what it is that you do and and what this thing is called applied behavior analysis.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: So applied behavior analysis is uh the psychological science of human behavior.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I know I I say two things that seem diametrically opposed to one another, uh, psychology and science, I know.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we uh so I have a master's degree in applied behavior analysis, which was born from the American psychologist B.F.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Skinner.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and most people that went through school will know Skinner as the guy that worked with the pigeons.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, they they pecked the color red, they got food, and so uh out of that uh idea was born this field of being able to scientifically understand through psychological means human behavior.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that's everything that we do.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily so we don't really deal with even though we acknowledge thoughts, emotions, feelings, we deal with tangible, noticeable movement through space and time.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: So like you might be upset, uh, but I don't know that you're upset.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: But if you punch a hole in a wall, I can see that you've physically moved and you've reported that you're upset.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we would deal with the behavior side of that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh that is in a nutshell applied behavior analysis, and um behavior chef is the the amalgamation, if you will, a bit of a marriage between nutritional consulting, so people's nutritional habits, and the psychological science of human behavior.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So we take uh we have seven pillars of wellness that we talk about.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: We talk about wellness as kind of our abbreviated idea for like people's uh behavior with nutrition, and so I'll give you the one now.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: We have we have seven pillars of wellness.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Wellness is like if you master all seven of these, you're doing pretty good.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's you know, we have nutrition, sleep, movement, mindfulness, which is sort of like being in the moment and present with things.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um what did I say?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: I said nutrition, sleep, movement, uh, mindfulness, stress, environment, and I almost forget my last one.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like hydration, so it's like water intake, things like that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, and I'm sure I I there's so many.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: We've tried to condense them down, but there are so many valuable things in each of those.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh oh, the other one is uh well, I guess we put that in mindfulness, the spirituality side uh of things.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh social, sorry, is the last one.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: My apologies.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: How did I forget that one?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like if you have the nutrition uh down, like if you know how you eat what you eat, you drink you know water, you know how to cook, those sorts of things.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you sleep well, if you move more, if you you know, just things if you break them down, they're simple.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: But what we find is people really hyper focus into one thing, and then the rest of the stuff kind of falters.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so our approach is very slow and methodic, and it helps stretch out uh time so that you can work on that one that you're really good at.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say you're good at you know going on a diet, which hate the term, but for sake of listeners, they're good at dieting.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and when they diet, they don't sleep as well because they're focused on you know meal prepping or whatever, or the gym, you know, they they don't sleep as well, or they don't drink as as much water because they're focused on doing all the other things.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we help bring focus to the right areas.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then people that have splinter skills that aren't necessarily full skills, we help them build skill sets that long story short, if we build your skill set, you don't need an app or a coach or anything like that.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know how to do it on your own.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let me get real practical here for a second.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say uh I'm just gonna come up with an imaginary case study if we can maybe go this direction.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say somebody's listening to this, and of course, I would never personally be in the situation, wink wink.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: But let's say, although I do exercise and I'm I eat moderately healthy and I'm sure I could do better.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Same.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I mean, all of us probably could, right?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Unless we're a weightlifter or a bodybuilder or something.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: But let's let's kind of go to the extreme.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And let's say somebody is a writer, let's say they they have on a few too many pounds, or maybe a lot too many pounds.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they feel stressed because of writing or a book project.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're a freelancer, maybe they're doing a full-time or part-time.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're a writer who's sitting a lot, they're eating too much junk food because it tastes good and because it's available and they're relieving stress.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're eating a lot of unhealthy stuff.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're not really exercising because they're working too much.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: What is what is kind of going on in the mind of a person in that state?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I know sometimes all of us are in that state.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: All of us get into negative patterns and stuff.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess my first question is what's really going on in our minds whenever we get into that cycle of eating poorly, not exercising, we're not drinking enough water, we're staying up too late.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like what are some of the mental things happening there?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Would that be a good place to maybe start?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's actually a fairly easy answer because uh all of those things come out of a value, right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we have these personal values that are intrinsic to us.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: And in the moment, they're expressed differently.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're working on, I mean, to me in that case study, I'm working on a deadline.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And in the moment, if I'm pitting finishing this book versus all these other things I want to do, the book is more important.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: So what I'm reinforced by is finishing the book.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, it's not that the other things aren't important.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: For the time being, I'm going to choose what's most important to me that I'm going to get the most value out of.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So the thing that means the most emotionally to me in that moment.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So in the moment it's it's finishing this passion project.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I know in two weeks I'll be able to get back to the gym or whatever the deadline is.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: But right now, I'm going to forego those things, even though intrinsically I know it's not very healthy for the moment, but I know it's a short time, so I can finish this book and then I can get back to doing X, Y, and Z.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So then what where would we go from there?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say, even if you know that, okay, so literally in front of me, and this I'm being like literally there's a stack of paper in front of me on my desk.
• 12:29
  unknown: Sure.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to finish going through making some final edits on a book that comes out in October for a publisher.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it would be tempting for me.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: The lower part of myself would like to spend the rest of my day on this.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So right now it's 4 32 p.m.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: as we're recording this central time on May the 24th, 2022.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I would love nothing more than to just get a big old fat pizza or a burger and fries and spend the rest of my night working on this book, not moving.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, when we're in that state, what do we need to do or to think about, or what is a way that we can get out of that negative pattern that we know is harmful, but we think, oh, it's just for this one day and tomorrow I'll get back on the track.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which we never do.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, like if I was your client right now, what what would you tell me to be thinking about or to be doing?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we just talked about values, so the things that are valuable to you.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: The next thing would be boundaries.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so what sort of boundaries are you setting to, and we're talking personal boundaries, to allow yourself to enact those behaviors.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: So one of my favorite things to do with clients like that that are sedentary things.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh three things that we talked about earlier in your case study that came to my mind was one, um, what are you doing uh to so today, how can you take five minutes away from all this for yourself?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's a big thing that we so we don't get wrapped up in the next project.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: It just breaks it up the monotony a little bit.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Two, um the the environment around you, all the stuff that is that is bad, uh quote unquote bad uh for you, you know, the chips, all that stuff you're reaching for.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's the kind of stuff that we like.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: I use this rule for myself that I chips, if there if there's a big bag of chips, I don't care how disciplined I am, it's gonna be gone.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's my that's my thing.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't we don't offload any foods whatsoever.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: What we do is we make them a little bit more difficult to get so that way you have a moment to think about it.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: So either they're up in a pantry away from you, uh, there's a bowl where you know we're doing serving serving sizes.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: So like three quarters of a cup of chips or whatever the the serving size is is in a bowl in front of you.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you want to go back and get more, you actually have to think about it instead of just automatically reaching.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I go a step farther and I don't keep them in the house.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: I live pretty close to a gas station, so I have to travel to get them, which would be a good time for a break for you.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you know you have to really want it.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's also if you think about the deadline, it also can kind of structure the book.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: So if I'm if I'm writing and I'll say it's 4 32, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say at five o'clock, that's my break.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna type till five, go get chips, come back, type till six, get dinner, come back, type till seven, get a a drink, or you know, take a break, whatever.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so you're structuring out your time so it's more productive, and you're getting reinforced, so you're not you're alleviating that internal stress uh because you're looking forward to something.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: But also you're you're making your environment work for you, is what you end up doing.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, so we talked about the values and boundaries there, and we talked about uh setting it up to where you know you have to reach it's out of reach, really.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: But the the biggest thing uh is movement.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you it's so simple.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like eating, no matter what you eat for dinner or lunch, uh getting more movement is beneficial for you in thousands of ways.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: And the easiest way that I could pair a couple of these things together is let's say you've you've set up this deadline to where every hour you're gonna type for an hour, take ten minutes to go do something else, grab a snack, whatever.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: What if you would type for that hour and you would get up and go walk around your neighborhood for 10 minutes, come back, grab a snack, and then get back to typing.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're doing and in the middle of that, so if you were a wearable, right?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say you did that for six hours, you got it for 10 minutes and went and walked, you're adding thousands of steps to your day without even trying to, because it's just a nice day outside.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: You can say hi to your neighbors, you can think about your next chapter, whatever you're gonna write, but you're moving while you do it.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so our whole business is taking your values and setting small boundaries that boundaries are rules that you control.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I think I should have said that.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like a rule would say uh you have to walk 10,000 steps a day.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: So the boundary says I'd like to get 10,000 steps, but with everything going on right now, the boundary says I'm gonna walk every 10 uh 10 minutes for an hour every hour to see how many steps I do get.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in control of how many steps I get, and I'm not trying to meet an arbitrary deadline that doesn't actually exist.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not creating more stress for myself, I'm actually alleviating stress and getting healthier because I'm the one who's in control of it all.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that's sort of the magic and the mystery in the behavioral change that we work with.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is there is there something valuable about stepping back and let's say you're on a book deadline?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, since this is a writing podcast, I'm always gonna go back to writing and deadline.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: But let's say you've got this this project that you've got to get finished, is it worth considering okay, why is this so important to me to get done?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Why is this thing more important to my health?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: So let me explain what I mean by that.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if you if you are sort of putting writing above everything else, maybe you have a personal project or whatever, and for a period of time, if you just ignore your health and you just sit in front of your computer for weeks on end doing this thing, you've gained weight, you feel like garbage, you're bloated, you're not drinking enough water, you're drinking energy drinks.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I've ever done that myself.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: But would it be worth considering why is why have I prioritized this thing over everything else?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for many of us writers, it it comes down to I want to finish this so I can be accepted by others, so that I can be seen as a person who's a writer with a capital W or an author with a kit with a capital A, or I can be viewed as significant by other people.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: So is there a sense in which sometimes we ignore our health because we're focusing on things that are going to give us status within our community, which which never really works.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people oftentimes don't care about the things that much.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I I don't know.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just trying to dig in this into the psychology of why do we sometimes idolize these certain status-inducing things so much to the detriment of our health?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's because we get something bigger out of that than we do the health outcomes.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: At least in the short term, I guess.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: So uh a term that we could use at times is delayed discounting.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's that being reinforced is the idea of I do something, I get something, right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's the basic idea of reinforcement.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like a reward system almost, like a Pavlov's dog kind of a thing.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um Pavlovian and operate conditioning are a little bit different, but it's the same kind of idea is that there's something at the end of this that I get.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: So if I if I'm meeting the deadline, then there's accolade and there's accomplishment.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: But what if we take a step back farther from that and we look at the values behind why?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: The value value is uh, and I'm not talking like the intrinsic value of something, I'm talking about the principles that run life.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we actually have every client that we have, regardless of their occupation, take a value's inventory before we begin.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we look at and it ranks your values in high impact, low impact, and underprivileged or underutilized.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so you might tell me that finishing this deadline is something you value, but in reality, what it what the value system might tell me is that um interdependence from other people is a high value for you.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: But independence is something that you're looking for, or uh community is high value for you, but family is something that you're really looking for.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: So we're choosing one value over the other, and that value kind of opens up an a whole behavior class of things that we'll do to get to that value.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then we we get there, and it hasn't really fulfilled what we're looking for because we're not applying the behavior under the right value.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: So you finish the book, you get the accolade, but you still feel empty.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: When in reality, what you're looking for is accolade from the people that matter the most.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's kind of what the value system helps us look at is like, yeah, you're you're very close to what you really want, but maybe you're thinking if I got that person to notice me, right?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: That person, whoever they are, that author to notice or read my book, or to write the foreword, or to write a review, that would that would do it for me.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: But then when they do, you're it's it's human nature to look for the next thing.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we got that.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like you and I talked off off air about some of the uh accomplishments we've been able to get in our own businesses.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when was when was the last time that you were able to be present in that?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: In that in that moment.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like my son who's one, he's doing all these things.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I could be thinking about his next milestone, or I could be thinking about, you know, is he developmentally there?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: What do I gotta do for daycare when he's two?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: What am I gonna do for or I could just simply sit in the fact that he just said daddy for the first time.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because the rest of that stuff is going to come.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a difference between planning for and executing the plan now.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't need to I can plan for his two year birthday, but he just turned one.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna plan for what We'd hope to be at two, but like you said, even the beginning of this podcast, conversation is fluid, right?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Life flows through conversation, and that's going to change.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: So if my boundaries aren't in place, if I'm not the one in control of the rules, then I can get tripped up really easily.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: So if the rule is finish the book and get accolades, my favorite question to ask any client is then what?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: When you reach that goal, then what for you?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Are you going immediately to the next book?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Are you going immediately to the next thing?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Will you trade that back in for your health uh behaviors?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Will you, you know, what what will you do after that?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because if the answer isn't, you know, like that's that's what I wanted, that was it, then then we haven't reached the thing that we really want.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're still chasing whatever it is we're not fulfilled.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not to say that writing the next book wouldn't be fulfilling, but what is it fulfilling?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: What are we truly are we truly fulfilling the intrinsic desire to be wanted by others?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or do we really is it misguided where we want to be wanted by the people closest to us, but we're afraid to do that?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Man, this this is really this is really like profound because it's it's reminding me that we have to step back and take a look at what are the things that bring us joy and do they have a lot of meaning to us?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let me give you an example.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so a week or two ago, I got another shipment of books in.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was it was actually this was um a client book uh that I had bought bought some copies of.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, when I did my first book, my first print book, The Artist Suit Case, which you mentioned a bit ago, that to me was really, really exciting.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my gosh, I've got a print book, it's on Amazon, it's blah, blah, blah.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then like last week I got a shipment of some client books in and I opened the box up and I'm like, hey, you know, that that's cool.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been over the book a million times, seen the PDF.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: But once you do something a number of times, it's it ceases to be as exciting as it once was.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we're living for those accolades or for that achievement or for that accomplishment, and we're putting everything into that and ignoring our health and family, then that's that's bad because because you you're never going to be satisfied if you're always chasing that next rung on the writer's ladder or whatever that consists of.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Being a New York Times bestseller or being an Amazon bestseller or making so much money or or whatever it is.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, your your latest episode as of this recording kind of speaks to that, right?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: So what happen what happens after, you know, in in 25 years, what will people say about you?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then 25 years from there.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then 25 years from there.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't want to get to my funeral.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I won't be there, but I don't want to get to the imaginary concept of my funeral, and my wife would say, you know, I would, I don't I don't want someone to say something about me that I think would be the opposite.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't want to like I feel like they would say, Well, Clint was, you know, a giving uh person and a great father and a good husband.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, what reality my wife might say he was always busy.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that one hurt that one hurts.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's and so I look at that and say, Well, then what am I valuing?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm thinking one thing and everyone else is seeing another, maybe I'm not following the value correctly.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so if I am, so then that's where the questions come in.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I what I what do I want to be known as?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be known as the guy who's helpful.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like my personal values are vulnerability and authenticity.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: I will be vulnerably authentic.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Love those.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I have an action word to the end of those.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I at my desk at work above the desk, I have a printout that says, Today, I will choose to be vulnerable and authentic and helpful.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that that way, no matter what the day brings, this is how my values show up every day.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: No matter how good, bad, or ugly the day is, the day is justified by those values and nothing else.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: So if I have been vulnerable and authentic and helpful, regardless of how hard the day was, then I can go to sleep knowing that I was my truest self.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's beautiful.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a long time coming.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that really is that that's a beautiful sentiment.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I really resonate with those values too.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I try to do the same thing in my life.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've not not written them down in that exact way, but maybe I will.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: That really resonates with me.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just there's there's something about the visual representation of who you want to be summed up on a word art form from Microsoft Word.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, you know, to see those things, because you can say them, but then your brain, then they just get swept into the New York City that is your brain.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and so when they're here, it's the stop sign, it's not the uh busy crosswalk, but it's the stop sign that sticks out.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so it makes you stop and be present with yourself, and that's why mindfulness has been this massive movement in the psychological space over the last few years, because people people don't know how to sit with themselves.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Man, that is so true.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the younger that you that you get, typically, you know, the younger the generation, the harder it is for them just to sit in silence.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like my son, who's 18.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like for him to sit in silence is is maddening.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's always you know, he's got like three computer screens and is because he's like a techie kind of a kid.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's got like different monitors and he's always doing 3D printing or designs and Photoshop or whatever.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I think typically for that's not just younger, younger people, it's a lot of us.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: We we just have trouble sitting and just being.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: We've always got to be active doing something.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I can imagine being the writer too, because the creative process, you know, I I've written a course, I've I've I write podcast episodes every week.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I write programs for for people.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't I haven't written in the same way that you write, but the process is But you're creating, it's the same thing.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you know the process doesn't have a shutoff, right?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have you know, you might have an idea for a potential book for a specific client that pops into your head at two in the morning.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, it doesn't have a 8 a.m.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: to 5 a.m.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: shutoff out or 5 p.m.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: shutoff out.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: It has creativity is not only is it a a system that you can use, but a lot of the time the starving artists in us it's it's driven by passion.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so we get hyper focused on a specific thing, and then all of a sudden, have you ever tried to figure something out and it didn't work, and then all of a sudden you saw that music video or listened to that song, and then everything just kind of fell into its place?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, you found the muse, right?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's the thing is we chase the muse, but we never catch it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's always and you have to oftentimes for me it comes in the moments where I'm not thinking about it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's so true.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like people you talk about having that moment in the shower where you're kind of you know, this would be kind of a weird social media post, but I've always wanted to ask this just trying to to ask people okay, does everybody is it just me or does everybody take a shower the same way every day?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you've done it that way for like for years, like you go through the same motions, you dry yourself off the same way, you can have a routine, and almost to where you can totally shut your brain off, and your body can go through the same motions.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh maybe you've had this experience too, where you're standing in the shower and you're going, Did I just wash my hair 15 seconds ago?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's like, oh my gosh, my mind was so blank.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: But in those moments, sometimes your creative subconscious produces cool ideas, and your brain is solving problems, and you're going for a walk and you come up with an idea.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's because that's become such that behavior has become such an automatic response that that your brain is free to do other things.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's literally intrinsically ingrained in you, and so what we do as a business is we help people make that happen with their healthful behavior, you know, the behavior that makes up wellness is like that that walk after lunch.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, oh that sounds hard.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you start doing it, and it's easy enough to do that it becomes just something that you look forward to, it becomes its own reinforcer, yeah.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because then you start thinking about your next book on so you know that what happens is it gets scheduled in your system.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: So tomorrow, at you know, you eat lunch every day at 12.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: At 12:30, from 1230 to 1240, you're looking forward to the walk because today you had a really cool thought.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: And tomorrow you get to have a really cool thought, and it no longer becomes about movement for your body, but it becomes about a medium to be expressive.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we get to a place as writers or or creatives or artists where we're valuing the movement and the exercise and the healthy eating where we value that more than the good feelings that we get from chips and ice cream and McDonald's and Subway and Chick-fil-A, I'm naming off all the places that I love that are that are within driving distance of my house.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do we get to that place where we actually emotionally value that more than the quick hit that comes from all the bad food?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: An easy, an easy way to do it is called habit stacking.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's where uh the new habit gets attached to something that you're easily doing already.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I always use uh lunch and dinners for walks, uh, especially for people that like value their family.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: So dinner the people that value family typically have dinners together with their family, and so we would uh add as a family, we would take a 10-minute walk together afterwards, talk about our day.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then what becomes more important is not the walk, but the connection that we get by having screens down and having conversations, and you might learn something about your 18-year-old that you didn't know, or your 18-year-old might hear a story from your childhood that was new to them, and next thing you know, what becomes more intrinsically motivating is not the walk itself, but as a matter of fact, it's the the person that they're doing it with, and then that behavior itself starts to what we call generalize.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: So since walking in that context has been fun, you know, maybe on Saturday we go for a hike.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like we don't do that stuff, but maybe we want owl, right?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the same with you know eating.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like my favorite thing to do for you know the Chick-fil-A and all that stuff is the copycat recipe.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: I love bringing in people's family and making making weekly menus that you all enjoy.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I'll give you an example of my my own life.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Every Saturday, my wife and I sit down to make out a pickup list for Aldi, and uh I ask, so we we usually do breakfast and lunches fairly similar just because that's a busy part of the day.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: And for dinner, we usually make that together.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, or one of us makes it, you know, when the other watches the little guy.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: But uh I always ask, okay, what five types of food are you hungry for right now?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like on Saturday night.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it'll be like you know, Mexican, so it'll be like tacos, pizza, burgers, you know, stuffed peppers, and lasagna, whatever.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's five.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: So those five things are something that we're into right now, so that becomes our weekly menu.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's not set on any certain night, it's just available anytime.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: So at any given time, I've got these meals to choose from.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And here's the kicker.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: There are most of the like I do copycat Big Macs.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love Big Macs as a kid.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: So instead of going to McDonald's and getting all the stuff that tears up my stomach, I like to make them, they really do, they mess with me so bad, but I like to make them make them at home.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And here's the caveat the uh it's an ingredient list of less than 10 ingredients because you have to make the little sauce, but it's relatively five to ten ingredients and it takes 30 minutes.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the rules.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: So if you find a copycat recipe that's between five and ten ingredients and it takes 30 minutes to make, that's your so if you're craving Chick-fil-A, uh, you know, grabbing a uh Tyson patty to throw in the air fryer and making the Polynesian sauce from Chick-fil-A uh from at home, which is I think if I remember right, it's like mustard uh ranch and barbecue sauce, you know, mixing that together and putting some fries down, that doesn't take any time at all.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, you could you could do that and have your kiddo make the sauce.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: You guys could test it out and see which batch is the best, you know, that kind of a thing.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: It makes it fun.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: So if we can make things fun and then adding in a social component like our family, that makes us more if family is a value, it makes us more inclined to do the thing, whatever the thing is.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I love that.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I love this idea of habit stacking.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's so cool.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And particularly doing things with your family.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So many times I I think we we can easily divorce our writing and our creative work from the rest of our life.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: If we we can somehow integrate those things, or if we can at least keep in mind that if we can keep in mind that our that our writing is not the most important thing in our life.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's family.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's purpose and it's serving, and it's like you know, it's very easy.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why this is.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's the same thing with all artists, but I spend most of my time around writers.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: With writers, it's like you can get so myopic about what you're trying to do with your writing and building a platform and building a business and having a book and all this stuff that it's it's easy to neglect everything else.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it's like that with anybody.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is it's it's like that with our business too.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I have I have these little checkpoints, little check-ins with myself.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I ask, you know, is this still fun?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is this still valuable?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: And who's this for?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so if it's not fun, then get rid of it.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: You you own the business.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: If it's not fun, do something else.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean scrap the business, it means whatever's not fun right now, change it.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: If it's not fun for you, uh, you know, just scrap it.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Is it valuable?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like is it is it actually helping myself and others?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: And who's it for?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Who am I who am I helping?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um so for me it's like I'm hoping to make this business full time, not just to help others, but to give my family a life of flexibility.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not just that I can work from home, it's that we can travel and I can work remotely, and you know, we can enjoy each other because that's what's most important in life.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that little four-minute episode from today's uh podcast feed from from you, it's true.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, 25 years from now, we might not be here.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and 25 years is not that long of a time.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so you might not be here tomorrow.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like what are you doing today to show up for yourself and others?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's a question that I ask myself a lot of time.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: How am I gonna show up today?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: And all that goes into it is if I'm working on those healthfully those healthful behaviors as well, then I know I can show up my best self for other people.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready to show up every time.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: You've given me a lot to think about, um which is why I do this podcast to begin with.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's I like to talk to people who are smarter than me, who can help me change and become better, and people get to listen in you know in the process.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate you taking time to share all this.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I could talk to you for forever, especially since we have you know a history from kind of another life just like an eon ago.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm like I'm always open to repeat conversations.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, anytime you want to talk, whether it be recorded or just to have a conversation in general, let me know.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, before we close out this conversation, can you let people know where to find you online and kind of services that you offer and anything else that you want to share?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, for sure.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can find me at uh behaviorschef.com, www.behaviorchef.com, and Facebook and Instagram are both at BehaviorChef, the two words behavior and chef together.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we're based in St.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Louis.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um St.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: Louis.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's right.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Hello.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Hello.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: On Facebook, we have a community.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think it's a link that I sent you to if you direct people there.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's a community, uh, it's a free community.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's about 4,000 people in it right now.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, just we we work on we we do weekly uh content that's just specific to the community.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: So every Monday we pose a question.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: We try to answer that question with our podcast episode, and then we give resources on Wednesdays in that group.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then Friday, my favorite thing to do is we do this uh this photo dump where we have you post a photo that's that's important to you right now and explain it in the comments and kind of go back and forth because life goes beyond the diet, it goes beyond anything else.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: We just want you to know that it's cool just to be human, and that's the one thing that we all share intrinsically is that we're all human first, and so it kind of brings that down there.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: But we also do monthly uh challenges.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: We just finished a water challenge where uh for every day for a week, yeah, every day for a week, somebody would uh enter this little contest, and you would just take a photo of yourself drinking water and post it and comment on somebody else's, and you had a chance to win some free behavior chef stuff.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: That was a lot of fun.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: We we I think we had 25 people this first time around, and I mean it it blew up, you know.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: We had people that weren't in the contest posting pictures of their water and asking questions.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: So the the community is pretty engaged, and uh you know, we're really building that up.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: But we'll be doing that every month.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm I go live once or twice a month to answer questions, uh, get podcast ideas.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: So everything there, we just try to be valuable for you and you know, just have fun there.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's the biggest place I'd love people to get to.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, as far as what we do, uh we do one-to-one nutrition and behavior coaching, uh, and all that information is on the website.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I won't bore you with all that.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we have some weekly podcasts called the Behavior Chef Podcast, where we talk about all this kind of stuff.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: It comes out every Wednesday.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the other thing is we're we're just finishing up a six-week course that we'll be running uh here soon.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if anybody's interested in that, there's a wait list up that you can join and we'll contact you when things are ready.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're looking at an August launch, so uh yeah, that's that's a lot, but that's that's it.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Clint, thanks again for taking time to be a guest on the show.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really enjoyed this conversation, and I appreciate all the awesome work that you're doing in the world to help people change habits and behaviors and just live a healthier life overall.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks again.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, man, thanks for having me.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, anytime you want to connect, let me know.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds great.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I really enjoyed that conversation, and I hope that you did as well.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of times I have guests on this podcast who we're talking about kind of fun, writerly type of things where, you know, we're talking about story structure or writing novels or productivity or things like that where basically I'm learning from them and I'm intrigued by it, but it's not something that really like challenges me on like a very personal level.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: And this episode is different because it's challenging some of the habits that I have now.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to get healthier.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I'm training for a half marathon this fall and all that process, but it's something I can definitely do better in.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really appreciate Clint coming on uh the show today and challenging all of us to be healthier and to live our best lives in that sense.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully you're taking away something practical from this as well.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: The whole point of this being, of course, is that we got to live healthier lives.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: And when we do that, that impacts not just our our physical bodies, it also impacts our writing and help us it helps us to be more creative and do what we're called to do in a more powerful way.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I encourage you to check out the show notes for links to everything related to the Behavior Chef online.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I especially encourage you to check out the Behavior Chef community on Facebook.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, there's a link to that in the show notes as well.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want to thank Clint for taking the time out to be our amazing guest today and sharing his wisdom with us.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: I want to take a moment to let you know about our daily writer membership community.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the very best ways to develop better habits and impact more people's lives with your writing is to spend time around other successful writers.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're tired of feeling isolated and chasing success on your own, then I know you're gonna love the Daily Writer community.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: For years, I searched for the kind of writing community that I would want to join, but I could never find what I wanted, so I created my own.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the features include weekly writing sprints, monthly community calls, book discussions, calls with guest experts, and much more.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: For more info, you can visit dailywriterlife.comslash community.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.