Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 22: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 1 - What Are They and Why Do I Need One?

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22: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 1 - What Are They and Why Do I Need One? · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast.
• 0:02
  I am very excited. I feel like I start every
• 0:04
  podcast off saying that, but I still am that's authentic.
• 0:09
  We are going to do something similar that we did a few
• 0:14
  podcasts ago where I pull over a podcast I was invited to with
• 0:18
  Amy and Alana going through full disclosures.
• 0:21
  So there's a lot of questions out there that we recognize
• 0:25
  needed and we're being asked of us of I don't understand full
• 0:30
  disclosures or what they are or why they're needed because I've
• 0:33
  already gave truth and we're we were noticing quite a few people
• 0:38
  showing up in the space where I've been in this for a few
• 0:41
  years now. And we're still stuck.
• 0:43
  She's still in pain. Mel is still having struggle
• 0:46
  with empathy and just want to talk a little bit about that.
• 0:51
  So just a friendly, and it's not a reminder, but just that
• 0:56
  friendly nudge that stage 2 of recovery or phase two of
• 1:01
  recovery can't happen until certain work has been done.
• 1:04
  Typically. The thing that said is that
• 1:07
  there's nothing hidden, There's no secrets.
• 1:10
  We've already checked that box. So I'm just inviting you to
• 1:13
  listen to it from a little different lens.
• 1:15
  If you've never done a full therapeutic disclosure and
• 1:18
  hearing who it applies to and who it doesn't, and if you
• 1:22
  reflect on your own experience and you recognize your partner
• 1:25
  still in pain, there's still a struggle with empathy, just to
• 1:28
  be open and listen to it from a different lens.
• 1:30
  And then we can always have some individual conversations about
• 1:33
  it. I'm really looking forward to
• 1:34
  hearing what your thoughts are on this, and we'll jump right
• 1:38
  into it. Welcome to Beyond the Facade
• 1:43
  podcast. I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and
• 1:46
  I'm thrilled to have you join me in this space today.
• 1:48
  What we're going to be doing is diving deep into the trials and
• 1:50
  triumphs and truths of seeking authenticity.
• 1:54
  Becoming your true self isn't about a single action or a
• 1:56
  moment. It's a relentless pursuit, a
• 1:59
  commitment to self that reveals a rich connection and meaning
• 2:02
  that our life has to offer. So whether this is your first
• 2:05
  time tuning in or you're a regular listener, know this.
• 2:08
  What you're building here goes beyond a conversation.
• 2:11
  You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
• 2:13
  incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
• 2:17
  Because when you dare to show up fully, the rewards are
• 2:19
  immeasurable. So welcome to Beyond the Facade.
• 2:22
  Let's get started. Hello everyone.
• 2:25
  Thank you for joining us. Like we promised, we are
• 2:30
  beginning today and a multiple series of episodes around full
• 2:37
  therapeutic disclosures. We have Luke Gordon who will be
• 2:39
  joining us and most of these we hope, Luke, as we talk about
• 2:45
  specifically full therapeutic disclosures and we are hoping to
• 2:51
  tackle all the insurance and outs about this experience for
• 2:56
  many of you. And even if you have had one,
• 3:00
  maybe you are in the middle of considering one.
• 3:03
  We really hope that you hang with us over these next several
• 3:06
  weeks as we dive into full disclosures.
• 3:09
  Today we are really wanting to focus on, and I'm just going to
• 3:13
  preface, I know I said this a couple times before we hit
• 3:15
  record, but one of the things that I hope our listeners walk
• 3:18
  away with from these episodes is not just what a Full disclosure
• 3:23
  is, but what Choose Recovery Services does and considers a
• 3:29
  full therapeutic disclosure. Because we do hold ourselves to,
• 3:33
  I think a higher standard. And the way that we do them is a
• 3:38
  little bit different, a lot of it different in many cases from
• 3:42
  other professionals how they do them.
• 3:46
  And so I am I, as a employee of Choose Recovery and very proud
• 3:53
  of how Choose has set the standard.
• 3:56
  I know that in the training that I've done, in the disclosures
• 3:59
  that I've done with both you, Alana and Luke have been some of
• 4:04
  the most remarkable experiences, but hard, hard as hell going
• 4:08
  through for our couples who are in the middle of it.
• 4:11
  But definitely walk away every time feeling very proud of the
• 4:17
  work that we have done. And it is a lot of work.
• 4:19
  And so I think that's one of the questions we're going to get to
• 4:22
  further in episodes is what do we do as professionals to help
• 4:25
  prepare a couple for this. But today we're going to talk
• 4:28
  about what a full therapeutic disclosure is, why you would
• 4:32
  need one. Some of you who are listening
• 4:34
  might be wondering, do I need one?
• 4:36
  Do I not? Hopefully we answer that
• 4:38
  question today, then we'll tap in a little bit.
• 4:40
  Like I said before, what AI think a healthy productive
• 4:45
  disclosure would look like and what a disclosure would look
• 4:48
  like that could potentially create more harm and injury.
• 4:51
  But unfortunately all of us have seen that happen when we get
• 4:54
  clients that have said, oh, I've had one and we get into it and
• 4:58
  it's no wonder why you're more activated or scared to do this
• 5:01
  again. It, it wasn't done in in a way
• 5:04
  that can give you the best possible outcome.
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  So hopefully you listeners walk away with a little bit more
• 5:10
  information over the next few weeks around this.
• 5:12
  OK, I just said a mouthful, Luke.
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  I would, I'm going to start with you if that's OK.
• 5:16
  Lana. I would love to hear from you,
• 5:19
  Luke. Like when someone says because
• 5:23
  you work mostly with the betraying partner, I think just
• 5:26
  right out of the gate, I would love to hear what you generally
• 5:29
  tell someone who has acted out why they need to give this, to
• 5:35
  consider giving this to their partner who they betrayed.
• 5:38
  Yeah. What's interesting is that you
• 5:40
  don't want to like first get a chance to meet with the person
• 5:43
  that is a betraying the addict betrayer.
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  There's a lot of resistance. It's I hope this doesn't come
• 5:50
  up. I don't really want to talk
• 5:52
  about it. And then once you start talking
• 5:54
  about it, so don't worry, don't just want to let you know.
• 5:56
  Luke already shared everything. She's already aware of it.
• 6:00
  There's a lot of stuff that comes up with Full disclosure.
• 6:02
  And I just want to say, hey, me too, but my journey, me too.
• 6:05
  That's what I wanted to focus on is she knows all of it.
• 6:08
  So it's a journey. And one of the things that I'll
• 6:10
  use it is a, a tool to measure readiness for change.
• 6:14
  That a person recognizing and being open to a Full disclosure
• 6:19
  says where I'm at in a place of ready for change.
• 6:23
  They're one of the person that's ready for it is chasing and
• 6:28
  chasing, healing, going like what's going on.
• 6:30
  And I'm going to give it an analogy to set up the rest of
• 6:32
  this. When I was a little guy, one of
• 6:35
  the first times I ever went to a dentist, dentist have a sorry if
• 6:39
  you're a dentist, by the way, then it's a bad rap for me
• 6:41
  because of trauma. I didn't know when I was a
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  little guy. I'm talking about 5 years old,
• 6:46
  four years old. I didn't know that when they
• 6:48
  drill on you that you're not supposed to do, you're not
• 6:52
  supposed to fill it. Like I had a dentist that didn't
• 6:55
  get me numb enough and didn't ask me any questions.
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  I thought it was just supposed to hurt.
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  So if you guys have ever had your two trilled on and they
• 7:02
  make it through the numbness, like I remember just being a
• 7:06
  little guy, just ears, just crying, sobbing and begging my
• 7:09
  parents to not go to the dentist.
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  I'm like, and my teeth would get so bad that I'd need root
• 7:13
  canals, right? And Alana, I don't know, a good
• 7:18
  portion of our relationship I've still felt for a very long
• 7:22
  period of time, don't go to the dentist and my teeth would get
• 7:24
  bad because of that trauma right now.
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  By the way, I'm sorry. I'm using the word trauma,
• 7:28
  talking about my experience. OK, I recognize it doesn't
• 7:31
  compare. Anything wrapped you and just
• 7:33
  validate getting, yeah, as a little person, getting your
• 7:37
  teeth done and not knowing how to have a voice and having that
• 7:40
  extreme pain is a form of medical trauma.
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  And I had something very similar and I used to have tears just
• 7:47
  pour down my cheek and I didn't know I could say anything.
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  So like, I still will go to the dentist and my body freezes up
• 7:54
  as an adult. So I'm just going to validate
• 7:58
  that, yes, it's not an emotional trauma and it is absolutely a
• 8:02
  trauma. So keep going.
• 8:04
  Appreciate you saying that and I was 30 years old the first time
• 8:09
  I met a dentist that properly not saying the rest of them
• 8:12
  didn't numb me up the right way, but actually I remember him
• 8:16
  going OK, so here's what we're going to do.
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  I'm a 30 year old man by the way.
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  Remember him treating me like a little kid should have been
• 8:22
  treated. He said here we're going to talk
• 8:25
  through the whole thing. Here's what we're going to do.
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  If you start to feel anything, I want you to do this and hey,
• 8:30
  what questions do you have? What's happening?
• 8:32
  I remember being like, those were two different experiences,
• 8:36
  right? I think about these people that
• 8:38
  go through and did the betraying and acted outside their values
• 8:41
  and traumatize their partner. When we talk about full
• 8:44
  disclosures, they only have bad experiences to compare the
• 8:47
  delivery of truth in, right? They only have experiences where
• 8:51
  they've been caught, where they're feeling a ridiculous
• 8:55
  amount of shame when they're questioning whether they're
• 8:57
  worthy, where there's a lot of self loathing and self hate, AKA
• 9:01
  somebody's drilling on your mouth without novocaine and
• 9:05
  once. And even if I give that an
• 9:09
  analogy, it's still hard to hear that this experience is going to
• 9:13
  be like nothing you've ever had before.
• 9:15
  You don't know what to compare this to because choose recovery
• 9:19
  services process is way different than other experiences
• 9:24
  that you've had and maybe have even looked into.
• 9:29
  So anyway. Yeah, I came to like,
• 9:32
  disclaimer, we're going to do all of these episodes.
• 9:35
  We're going to go through our whole process.
• 9:37
  So we're not gatekeeping anything.
• 9:40
  We're not saying, oh, you have to come to us and you're going
• 9:43
  to get the golden standard and you can get that anywhere else.
• 9:47
  One of the pillars of our company is we don't care where
• 9:51
  you get your support. We just want to make sure you
• 9:54
  get the right support. And whether you're listening to
• 9:57
  this or your therapist is listening to this or your coach
• 9:59
  is listening to us, we're going to tell you the whole process so
• 10:04
  you know how to advocate for yourself to get good support and
• 10:08
  good health. Yeah.
• 10:10
  And the, and it's funny a lot because when you say that we
• 10:14
  don't care where you get this. And then I love the part of we
• 10:17
  just wanted to be the right way because what we are passionate
• 10:20
  about is there's a lot of ways that good this goes wrong and a
• 10:25
  lot of ways that people get hurt.
• 10:27
  And it doesn't need to be through us, but the right care
• 10:31
  needed to happen. You know, Amy, I don't know if I
• 10:33
  necessarily even answered your question.
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  Did I even answer it? What was the question?
• 10:38
  What was? The question.
• 10:40
  You did and then some which is always awesome, but like the
• 10:43
  question was what do you tell your betraying partners as to
• 10:49
  why they need to give this to their partner?
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  I'm just going to repeat what you said there in case someone
• 10:54
  didn't pause and rewind that because it was worth it.
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  It's a tool to measure readiness for change.
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  What we've also learned is the person who has betrayed benefits
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  just as much as the person who's been betrayed in this process.
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  Absolutely. And in in very different ways.
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  But this process, when done right, is so beneficial to both
• 11:20
  partners. And I think it look what you
• 11:22
  were saying. A lot of men come and they're
• 11:24
  like they aren't ready, they don't they're ready to get
• 11:27
  drilled in the mouth. And most of the time, as we've
• 11:29
  seen when we look at our multi dimensional partner trauma model
• 11:33
  that apps that gives and where this full therapeutic disclosure
• 11:36
  falls in line. It is part of the rebuilding
• 11:39
  trust stage. It's that foundational layer of
• 11:42
  the healing pyramid of OK, I need to get all the truth out
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  there. The betrayed partner needs has a
• 11:49
  right to all of that truth, which is we call why we call it
• 11:53
  her right of truth, but does in a sense, at least for me, start
• 11:57
  that way. Often times where they're like,
• 11:59
  OK, because they are going I need truth.
• 12:01
  I can't trust if I don't have truth.
• 12:03
  So often times starts with this. But to your point, Alana, it is
• 12:06
  so much more than that. When you go through this
• 12:09
  process, It's not it serves end of each individual and
• 12:15
  potentially their relationship. Well, Lana, I appreciate the way
• 12:18
  you set it up like we're walls down.
• 12:21
  What did you say? Open trans, full transparency,
• 12:23
  like where we want you to see all the parts of it through
• 12:26
  these episodes. And one of the things that I
• 12:30
  really struggle with is I'm like, this is so important.
• 12:34
  You are investing in individual sessions, you're investing in
• 12:38
  Group and you're trying to negotiate this part.
• 12:42
  You're putting in so much work and you're trying to negotiate
• 12:45
  your way out of this part. And I'm like, and I what I want
• 12:49
  to do in my Madden brains is going stop, don't negotiate this
• 12:54
  part. But all that other work in all
• 12:56
  that effort, all that other blood, sweat and tears, because
• 12:59
  the part that scares you the most, there's a reason.
• 13:03
  And it's not because of it's not because of what you think is
• 13:06
  going to happen. It's because that's the part
• 13:08
  that holds the hold you captive. So the part that a little bit I
• 13:14
  tell the people I work with was, do you want the relationship to
• 13:17
  work? Do you want this relationship?
• 13:21
  Are you in it? Yeah, a minute.
• 13:23
  OK. All right.
• 13:25
  So you can't get to a place where you can see each other and
• 13:31
  hear each other and you be heard and really see until you've
• 13:34
  tackled the shame. That can't happen without the
• 13:38
  sharing of truths. So you can't go on to the next
• 13:40
  stage. You can't do stage two or three.
• 13:42
  You can't. It's impossible.
• 13:44
  So. Well, it's interesting because
• 13:46
  yeah, everything you're saying, 100% agree with that.
• 13:50
  It really is foundational. I want to say this in the very
• 13:54
  first episode. It's not a magic pill that I get
• 13:58
  and it, and I'll say this to clients so many times and still
• 14:02
  like they hold on to it that it is.
• 14:04
  So it's really hard to internalize this message
• 14:08
  sometimes, but a Full disclosure, sometimes I have
• 14:11
  clients who want to bring their partner kicking and screaming of
• 14:14
  like, they just need to do this and then we'll be OK.
• 14:17
  This is a foundational brick in the building of that foundation.
• 14:21
  It is very important. It is very healing.
• 14:26
  It's one of many puzzle pieces. It's not that puzzle.
• 14:30
  It's one piece that lays the foundation for so many other
• 14:35
  pieces, but you don't finish a Full disclosure and now your
• 14:39
  relationship is fixed. And unfortunately, that happens
• 14:43
  a lot of times as we hold so much hope because they hear the
• 14:47
  importance of this and they hear all of the benefits that come
• 14:50
  from it. And then their brain just goes,
• 14:52
  I just got to get through the Full disclosure and then we'll
• 14:54
  be OK. Yeah, because what often is
• 14:57
  thought is what holds me captive is my secrets.
• 15:01
  That's not inaccurate. But what actually holds me
• 15:04
  captive is not my secrets, but my secrets.
• 15:08
  Allow me to uncover what the route is, right?
• 15:12
  Right. Allows you to uncover the route.
• 15:14
  Uncover what the route is so you get down to.
• 15:16
  That route. All you get the ability to be
• 15:19
  able to do by sharing the parts that you don't want to share is
• 15:22
  now you can actually do the work on what's the route.
• 15:26
  Yeah, around you got to bring it all up.
• 15:28
  I describe it that way like it's all been buried and we've done
• 15:31
  remarkable job and parts of us have done a remarkable job
• 15:34
  burying it, but we've got to dig it all up and bring it up to the
• 15:38
  surface. That's that principle of
• 15:39
  awareness to see it, to look at it, because if we don't look at
• 15:42
  it and see it, then we can't heal it, we can't fix it, change
• 15:44
  it. And and that's why your quote of
• 15:46
  it's a tool to measure readiness of changes stood out to me so
• 15:50
  much because, yeah, if you're not willing to dig up the
• 15:53
  secrets that were burying, then we can't change any of it.
• 15:59
  We've been using the language, a lot of many puzzle pieces, the
• 16:02
  foundational layer. I just want to go over that
• 16:05
  healing pyramid again. So my brain works What we're
• 16:09
  talking about here in terms of like, why do we need a Full
• 16:12
  disclosure? So when we look at the healing
• 16:14
  pyramid, what it takes to heal a relationship after something
• 16:18
  like this, the pyramid goes first layer is truth and
• 16:22
  honesty. This is why disclosure lives
• 16:25
  here. The next is safety, the next is
• 16:28
  trust, the next is vulnerability, and then
• 16:32
  intimacy. And in that top pillar of
• 16:34
  intimacy, there are then seven different levels, according to
• 16:38
  Moi, of intimacy. And because intimacy isn't just
• 16:42
  sex, it's all the different ways that we connect in healthy
• 16:45
  areas, verbal, cognitive, emotional, psychological,
• 16:49
  spiritual, physical, sexual. The reason why I bring that up
• 16:53
  is because what you were saying, Alana, why it's not the magic
• 16:56
  pill, it is the foundational piece.
• 16:58
  And when you are struggling to find a sense of safety in a
• 17:02
  relationship, when you are like, I can't trust.
• 17:05
  He's staying all there. I see.
• 17:07
  I feel like maybe it's different.
• 17:10
  I'm just really having a hard time trusting why if you have
• 17:14
  not had a full right of truth and this process hasn't
• 17:18
  happened, it makes sense to me in my brain when I look at that
• 17:21
  pyramid, why you might be really struggling to trust in that
• 17:25
  relationship. That's why to me, to answer our
• 17:28
  question really today, like why do we need a disclosure?
• 17:31
  Because I know those of you who are listening to us want the
• 17:35
  intimacy, want the connection, want the relationship to be
• 17:37
  renewed, restored, and repaired. We have to start here to get
• 17:42
  there. And there there's a quote in a a
• 17:49
  for those a a people her listen, I'm so sorry because I can't
• 17:51
  remember it, so I'm going to butcher it.
• 17:53
  But it was something along the lines of I can't let the
• 17:56
  thinking that got me here expect that to be the thinking that's
• 17:59
  going to Get Me Out of this. Yeah, it's like the you can't
• 18:04
  pray your way out of something you behaved your way into, OK.
• 18:08
  Totally. But I think about that and so
• 18:11
  many times when Luke or I are working with a person who has
• 18:14
  betrayed trust, what they think that they need to share or how
• 18:20
  they need to share it, and they're very inaccurate details
• 18:23
  that they're like, oh, really, I should be sharing that or but
• 18:28
  they won't care about that. And we're like, whoa, hey, yeah,
• 18:30
  no, actually that's pretty important is it does require a
• 18:34
  level of humility to say, OK, the thinking processes that got
• 18:39
  me into those behaviors, that type of thinking is not good.
• 18:43
  It's not going to Get Me Out. And I need to trust somebody who
• 18:46
  knows the process and knows what needs to be shared and how to
• 18:50
  share it and what my partner really needs to heal.
• 18:54
  That, I think is a really another important piece of this
• 18:57
  process, which is why having the right help to move you through
• 19:02
  it is pretty important. Absolutely, Luke, I just wanted
• 19:06
  to give you time. I feel like we've been talking a
• 19:08
  lot. Is there anything you want to?
• 19:10
  Nothing's coming to mind. That's it.
• 19:13
  I just thought I'd. Check.
• 19:15
  Yeah. Thoughts.
• 19:16
  Are you still there? Just checking the next piece to
• 19:20
  this, I think would be helpful to discuss why we're talking so
• 19:24
  much about the way that shoes recovery does These actually
• 19:27
  piggybacks off what you were saying there, Alana.
• 19:29
  A lot of times we will hear I've got most of the truth or I think
• 19:34
  I have the most important pieces or they have told me that I know
• 19:38
  everything that I need to know. So why do I need a Full
• 19:41
  disclosure? We might hear that often.
• 19:43
  And so it really just validates what you were saying there a
• 19:46
  minute ago on of how you actually disclose truth matters
• 19:51
  and what a betrayed partner needs to know, really needs to
• 19:56
  know and might not need to know also matter because I've seen.
• 20:01
  On the opposite end, word too much and when I say too much
• 20:05
  nitty, I always get this phrase wrong.
• 20:08
  Nitty gritty details that can cause more injury, which leads
• 20:14
  us I think into the next section here of there are helpful
• 20:17
  disclosures and there are hurtful disclosures.
• 20:20
  So can we just talk about what the difference looks like?
• 20:25
  I've had clients come to and some of them have been happening
• 20:29
  from inpatient places that they've had these ones and the
• 20:34
  inpatient centers so focused on the person who is betrayed that
• 20:38
  the partner gets totally left behind or that they've just had
• 20:42
  someone who wasn't properly trained.
• 20:45
  So. I've heard such horror stories.
• 20:49
  Yeah, it's heart. It's heartbreaking.
• 20:52
  It's more damaging when you think about a betrayed partner
• 20:56
  and the trauma that they are experiencing already in every
• 21:01
  way possible, external, internal.
• 21:05
  One of the things that I think we pride ourselves on is trying
• 21:09
  our hardest to help prevent that re injury, right?
• 21:13
  We want that's why we're so like safety stabilization.
• 21:16
  Let's calm the triggers down. Let's see how we can manage a
• 21:19
  lot of those because every time you go into that fight, flight,
• 21:23
  freeze again, that trauma state, you are creating more and more
• 21:28
  of that deficit really in your system.
• 21:31
  You're getting more and more further away from you.
• 21:34
  Your vagus nerve is getting more and more hijacked.
• 21:36
  There's so much impact here that you've already experienced.
• 21:40
  We really want to help you betrayed partner from having
• 21:44
  more injury. And all of us have stories where
• 21:47
  it is grueling to hear how they have these betrayed partners
• 21:52
  have been so injured through, but I just call it a botched
• 21:57
  disclosure. So we really want to try to
• 22:00
  prevent that. So a botched would like Alana,
• 22:02
  what comes to mind when I say, yeah, this would be a botched
• 22:06
  disclosure if you've had this happen?
• 22:09
  The first thing that comes to mind is where the B trade
• 22:12
  partner does not get to ask any questions that they are
• 22:16
  literally there to sit and listen and leave.
• 22:19
  Oh, there's no questions that they get to ask ahead of time.
• 22:22
  There's no questions during. There's no questions after.
• 22:25
  They are literally there. And I just think of like the
• 22:28
  trauma because part of what creates trauma is when we have
• 22:32
  no choice or no say or no voice and what's happening to us.
• 22:37
  And so that in of itself we're AB trade partner is having to
• 22:41
  just sit there with a person who's betrayed them and a person
• 22:45
  in power and then just be talked at and left with all of that.
• 22:49
  Oh, that one unfortunately happens more often than I would
• 22:53
  like to hear. And that one can be really re
• 22:58
  traumatizing. When I think of when I think
• 23:00
  about botched disclosure, I think about way I would clean a
• 23:03
  room compared to the way Alana would clean a room.
• 23:07
  Say we have say she's hey, we got a company coming over when
• 23:09
  you get it this priority and then I go about it, I'm like,
• 23:12
  yeah, it looks good. That's good, that's fine.
• 23:14
  Didn't look OK. It didn't look OK at all.
• 23:17
  And I'm in a hurry to get the job accomplished.
• 23:20
  And picked up versus clean? Yeah, yeah, like my and I'm.
• 23:26
  I'm well, I clean and. I'm looking at the room.
• 23:30
  I'm like, there's, there's, I don't see a big giant dish with
• 23:34
  cookie dough in it like it's we're good, like we're fine.
• 23:37
  There's no animal messes on the floor.
• 23:39
  And I think I'm just my efficiency mechanisms kicking
• 23:43
  in. I'm doing what I can to just get
• 23:45
  through it. And I think botched with that
• 23:48
  instead of looking at the individual and going what is
• 23:52
  needed here. So when Alana cleans and I I do,
• 23:56
  here's the deal. I got to have ownership.
• 23:58
  I can clean. Do I want to clean?
• 24:00
  And am I motivated to? That's the problem, OK.
• 24:04
  Do I need guidance? Yeah, probably.
• 24:06
  I need to slow down is what I need to do.
• 24:08
  So what botch disclosure is, is like efficient.
• 24:12
  It's like it's not done with the people in mind and it's not done
• 24:18
  with what is needed right now. That takes a lot of time and
• 24:23
  energy. That is a significant process.
• 24:26
  What? I just want to say that again,
• 24:28
  you said look at the individual and what is needed here.
• 24:33
  And even sometimes I'll be talking with one of our coaches
• 24:36
  and they're like, what's the way we do it?
• 24:38
  I'll say it. Sure.
• 24:39
  There's a way that is the What are you grinning at, Luke?
• 24:44
  You started with SH and I was like, what's the do you shush
• 24:47
  them? Both of you my my screen keeps
• 24:52
  freezing and so I didn't know if like I was frozen there.
• 24:55
  Anyway, not good, no, but sometimes I'll have coaches come
• 24:58
  to me and they'll go what is what's the right way to do this?
• 25:01
  I have to retrain them. There's no right way.
• 25:05
  Like sure, we have a standard that we start with, but we have
• 25:10
  to be ready as professionals to really look at the situation,
• 25:13
  look at the individual, look at what is going to be most
• 25:17
  helpful, most healing and be willing and to adjust as needed.
• 25:21
  So that I'm just what is needed here for this particular
• 25:26
  individual and this particular couple important.
• 25:31
  And it's interesting because we've all, oh, go ahead, Amy.
• 25:33
  No go. We've all done that.
• 25:35
  The three of us have done this. There's been attempts that
• 25:39
  haven't been good to more systemize it, to explain it to
• 25:43
  the client in a way that you y'all that are listening in a
• 25:48
  way that makes it easy to understand and going OK, that
• 25:51
  makes sense you. There's so much of this that
• 25:54
  there's a process, but we really have to understand what's
• 25:56
  needed. And I want to say what I've my
• 25:59
  experience of being on the other side with working with the Alana
• 26:02
  and Amy is one of the first documents that is filled out and
• 26:06
  understood is what she needs. Like what they sorry, thank you,
• 26:11
  what they need. The person that's been betrayed,
• 26:13
  the person that's been hurt, the person that that attachment
• 26:16
  injury and it slowed down. And I don't start with the
• 26:20
  process with the betrayer until I am crystal clear with what is
• 26:24
  needed in that moment. So, and it's important.
• 26:27
  You can see how important that is just by slowing the betrayed
• 26:33
  partner now so that they can go, what do I need?
• 26:38
  And that's why this takes time. And it goes back to what you
• 26:41
  were saying, like why this is not to be rushed or hurried or
• 26:46
  quick process because it takes, it takes time to be able to even
• 26:50
  articulate that for a lot of of arbitrary partners.
• 26:55
  There's another thing that came to mind when you were talking to
• 26:57
  look with the analogy of cleaning the room.
• 26:59
  I think sometimes when it's hurried, rushed and and the
• 27:03
  trade partner is like, oh, I'll just, I'll just going along with
• 27:07
  your analogy. I'll just tell them like that's
• 27:10
  over there in that side of the room and that's over there in
• 27:12
  that side of room. And yeah, I had that in the
• 27:14
  closet there. It's fine.
• 27:16
  It's fine. The language that can be
• 27:19
  potentially abusive or destructive, that often
• 27:22
  accompanies a Full disclosure when not carefully fine combed
• 27:29
  through can create additional injury.
• 27:32
  And I've seen that far too many times.
• 27:34
  And that's one of the things that I know it goes through
• 27:36
  multiple eyes to make sure that as a betrayed partner, when you
• 27:40
  are hearing that truth, the way that it is delivered is with as
• 27:46
  much empathy and I'm going to say healthy language as possible
• 27:51
  again, because our goal is to help prevent as much as
• 27:54
  possible. Re injury, it's already, I've
• 27:56
  heard it described as a scheduled trauma.
• 28:00
  I used to repeat that. I don't love that anymore.
• 28:03
  I don't like calling it that anymore.
• 28:06
  And it's hard. I'm not going to sugarcoat it
• 28:10
  like it's hard to hear truth, It's hard to give truth, it's
• 28:12
  hard to hear truth. But.
• 28:14
  You're still at the dentist. Truth can set you free.
• 28:18
  Truth can fix the broken tooth. And that's what I think a lot
• 28:21
  of, I know a lot of you were looking for in this broken
• 28:25
  relationship rupture. A lot of times the person that's
• 28:28
  in the betraying, they're trying to expedite the process that was
• 28:30
  the cleaning of the room. But what's interesting is if you
• 28:33
  look at this, a lot of my motivation was, hey, if Alana's
• 28:38
  out of pain, then I can be out of pain.
• 28:41
  And that was selfish, right? A lot of it was is don't tell
• 28:44
  her anything bad because then she'll be in pain and then I'll
• 28:47
  be in pain. I got right down to it.
• 28:48
  I was scared of pain. OK, I don't want that.
• 28:52
  But I mean, if you think about it like this first stages, the
• 28:55
  betrayed partner has to go through like seeking like so
• 28:58
  much safety. She's so diligent about how she
• 29:01
  goes about it. There's so much, so many
• 29:03
  ruminating thoughts, just like the brain going all sorts of
• 29:08
  places, so much distrust. The quicker we can get to that
• 29:13
  Full disclosure, the less time she needs to be there.
• 29:16
  Not saying that's not going to exist after a Full disclosure,
• 29:19
  not saying at all, but often it's drug out negotiating with
• 29:24
  that process. Yeah, we see that a lot.
• 29:28
  Yeah. And so I, I do think there is
• 29:31
  like a window that we do try to aim for.
• 29:33
  But again, this is really individualized where I'll have
• 29:36
  some clients and it's really rare, but we'll whip out a
• 29:40
  disclosure in a matter of just a couple of weeks or we'll do it
• 29:44
  in an intensive where you come three days and we are doing
• 29:48
  nothing but disclosure work. But then I've had some too,
• 29:53
  where it's a decade later, she wants or he wants a Full
• 29:57
  disclosure and they go, I've waited this long.
• 30:01
  You take as much time as you need that it can be done well.
• 30:04
  And we've taken a year to do disclosure, but those are
• 30:07
  outliers. On average, I do like to see
• 30:11
  around 6 to 8 weeks for the disclosure process.
• 30:15
  Long enough that we have the ability to be thorough, but
• 30:19
  short enough that we are focused and we are starting and
• 30:23
  finishing and it's not drug out for months so that person who's
• 30:26
  been betrayed can get that support sooner.
• 30:30
  And get the proof sooner. And here's one other piece to
• 30:33
  this. The reason we're doing multiple
• 30:36
  episodes on this, and when I say multiple, I don't know how many,
• 30:39
  but probably 6-7, however many we need is because we could
• 30:46
  rattle this all off in one episode and make it super short
• 30:49
  and super condensed. But that's not what we want in
• 30:52
  our Full disclosure process. And that's not what we're going
• 30:55
  to do in explaining him. We're going to slow this down.
• 30:58
  Like in this episode, you're probably going, that was really
• 31:01
  helpful. And what the heck did I even
• 31:02
  learn? Because we haven't even talked
• 31:04
  about any of the steps yet of Full disclosure.
• 31:06
  And we're about to wrap up this episode.
• 31:09
  But we are slowing this down and allowing you to really sit with
• 31:13
  all the pieces of the process so that you can hear it, you can
• 31:17
  understand it. And then again, you can advocate
• 31:21
  for yourself to get this, whether you're advocating in
• 31:23
  your relationship for this or you're advocating for a
• 31:26
  professional to go get trained in this or you're looking for
• 31:29
  the right support. I love that you said that and on
• 31:32
  the tail of that, Alana, if I may, I would love our listeners
• 31:36
  who have been betrayed to walk away because I want you to walk
• 31:40
  over with something and maybe walk away asking yourself that
• 31:44
  question of what do I need? What do I need for my right of
• 31:48
  truth? What pieces might be missing?
• 31:50
  Love the analogy of the puzzle pieces.
• 31:52
  I feel like the just whether trickle disclosure or discovery,
• 31:57
  the initial experiences, it sets a bomb off in your head and now
• 32:01
  you have all these puzzle pieces.
• 32:02
  And I look at a disclosure is very helpful in putting these
• 32:06
  puzzle pieces back together that your human brain, it by the way,
• 32:09
  is designed to try and figure out and find out.
• 32:13
  If it doesn't often times then starts to turn against you.
• 32:17
  That's where you might feel like maybe if I was more or if I
• 32:21
  hadn't or if I should have, because your brain's trying to
• 32:25
  figure something out. It's trying to find a piece.
• 32:28
  So I'd love for you to just be self reflective in that.
• 32:30
  Notice if you are finding yourself stuck, maybe you find
• 32:34
  yourself in self blame because you don't have a piece of the
• 32:38
  truth. Maybe you find yourself
• 32:40
  questioning, doubting your partner's words right now.
• 32:43
  Just notice that. Be aware of how often that's
• 32:46
  coming up for you and ask that really hard I think question of
• 32:51
  what do I need in my right of truth and see what comes up.
• 32:55
  This can be great to work with your professional around as well
• 32:59
  as there can be some resistance there.
• 33:02
  But and then Luke, I'm just curious, has anything come to
• 33:05
  mind for you maybe if a betraying partner is listening
• 33:08
  to this, what would you challenge them to maybe think
• 33:11
  and consider based on the? Only thing that's coming on mind
• 33:14
  right now is just please stop telling your partner they know
• 33:17
  everything. Please stop telling them that
• 33:20
  you almost put out your water. Amy, please stop telling your
• 33:23
  partner they know everything when you've had decades of
• 33:28
  breaths on this earth and you think you've disclosed all of
• 33:33
  your experiences. Stop gaslighting them like that.
• 33:37
  Stop, please. And I'm doing that not advocate
• 33:41
  so much for the betrayed as I am for you getting healthy.
• 33:44
  And you can't me lying to myself over and over again just pushes
• 33:48
  that further down the road. And and hey, it makes sense why
• 33:53
  that's being said. So I don't want to, I don't want
• 33:55
  to take that away from the reason, right?
• 33:57
  Because I didn't want to focus on there's no, there's no, I
• 34:00
  didn't murder anybody. That's not going to come out
• 34:03
  during a disclosure anyway. And I'll just put out there, if
• 34:07
  I, and I've had clients tell me this, I don't know what I need.
• 34:10
  I don't know if you're hearing that question and you just say I
• 34:13
  don't know, that's OK. Still sit with it.
• 34:16
  Still ask yourself and let that question just be there and let
• 34:21
  yourself not know. And as you let yourself not
• 34:24
  know, but stay curious, it allows that to start to open up
• 34:28
  within you. And as you listen to all these
• 34:31
  episodes, you will start to put more and more of that together.
• 34:35
  So welcome to our Disclosure miniseries, and we're glad
• 34:40
  you're with us, and we look forward to tackling this more
• 34:43
  next week. Hey, thanks for joining us
• 34:48
  today. If this is something that you
• 34:49
  connected with, I'd love to meet with you more and talk about it.
• 34:53
  So what you can do is go to chooserecoveryservices.com or
• 34:56
  check the show notes and there what we can do is set up a quick
• 34:59
  conversation meet. Thanks so much for listening to
• 35:02
  Beyond the Facade where we unmask the authentic self.