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LAW ENFORCEMENT ADMITS PORTLAND SERIAL KILLER EXISTS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece.
0:14
Speaker 2: Now they tell us, Now they tell us, why are
0:18
Speaker 2: we just hearing that? Oh yeah, guess what, there is
0:23
Speaker 2: a serial killer. We I and many others have been
0:28
Speaker 2: screaming from the get go there is a serial killer
0:33
Speaker 2: stalking Portland. But police not only deny it, they come
0:40
Speaker 2: right out and say, point blank, we want to address
0:44
Speaker 2: all the quote rumors that there's a serial killer. It's
0:47
Speaker 2: absolutely not true. Now we find out what they said
0:53
Speaker 2: is what's not true. That's kind of an outright lie.
0:57
Speaker 2: I had to put that on the Portland PD. But
1:00
Speaker 2: it feels like a kick in the teeth when someone
1:03
Speaker 2: in law enforcement intentionally misleads the public. They stated that
1:08
Speaker 2: they did not want to scare Portland women. How about
1:13
Speaker 2: saving Portland women from a serial killer? And the number
1:19
Speaker 2: one way to avoid being a victim is having knowledge,
1:25
Speaker 2: knowledge that there is a serial killer and this is
1:29
Speaker 2: his mo modus opera and die method of operation. These
1:33
Speaker 2: are his victims. This is what they had in common.
1:36
Speaker 2: What if anything, does that have to do with me
1:39
Speaker 2: a woman walking down the street, getting out of my
1:41
Speaker 2: car and going into the department store in Portland. But no,
1:46
Speaker 2: they kept it a secret. They knew it, but they
1:50
Speaker 2: not only no comment that didn't happen, they outright denied it.
1:56
Speaker 2: That said Bottleshell, there is a serial killer in Portland.
2:03
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you for
2:06
Speaker 2: being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM
2:09
Speaker 2: one eleven. Take listen to our friends at ABC and KATU.
2:14
Speaker 3: A major development in the investigation into the deaths of
2:17
Speaker 3: several women in Oregon. Just one month after police suggested
2:20
Speaker 3: the mysterious deaths of six women were not connected, officials
2:24
Speaker 3: now say they believe at least four killings are connected.
2:28
Speaker 3: The victims' bodies were found in wooded and rural areas
2:31
Speaker 3: between February and May. Nine agencies took part in the investigation,
2:35
Speaker 3: leading them to a person of interest.
2:37
Speaker 4: It's a story that has grabbed headlines across the region.
2:40
Speaker 4: The bodies of six women found in or near the
2:42
Speaker 4: Portland metro area in a relatively short timeframe. It sparked
2:46
Speaker 4: weeks of speculation and rumors. Tonight we know police believe
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Speaker 4: at least four are connected.
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Speaker 5: Investigators say the deaths of Kristin Smith, Charity Perry Bridget Webster,
2:55
Speaker 5: and Ashley Reel are linked, and sources say a person
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Speaker 5: of interest is already off the streets.
3:00
Speaker 2: And I'd like to point out that person of interest
3:03
Speaker 2: who is quote off the streets, Jesse Lee Calhoun. He's
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Speaker 2: thirty eight years old. When they're saying he's off the streets,
3:10
Speaker 2: that's because they've just snabbed him. He was behind bars
3:14
Speaker 2: already for a long string of arrests. He is a
3:18
Speaker 2: career criminal. He has attacked police officer and a canine
3:22
Speaker 2: in the past. He's committed all sorts of felonies. But
3:26
Speaker 2: he got early release under the former governor because she
3:34
Speaker 2: thought he was susceptible to COVID. Okay, he was recently
3:42
Speaker 2: ordered picked up after there's clear links to him and
3:46
Speaker 2: it's just got to be DNA. But that said, he
3:50
Speaker 2: got early release, and I've got copious notes that I've
3:55
Speaker 2: taken about the time he was released on the streets
3:59
Speaker 2: July twenty two. By June, about a year and a
4:03
Speaker 2: half later, twenty twenty three, report submerged in The Oregonian
4:08
Speaker 2: that six young women's bodies have been found. That was fast.
4:15
Speaker 2: He's out less than two years on the street. Six
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Speaker 2: women's bodies are found right now. Four of these women
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Speaker 2: are being linked I'm waiting to hear about the other two.
4:25
Speaker 2: Now one may have been an unintentional overdose. We're waiting
4:31
Speaker 2: to find out about that, but I don't know that.
4:34
Speaker 2: And another thing to consider before I get to my
4:37
Speaker 2: All Star panel is that this is a serial killer's dream.
4:42
Speaker 2: It's a no police zone. Remember Portland, stop police, get
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Speaker 2: rid of police, make this this police free zone. Well,
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Speaker 2: you know what, here you go, six dead bodies as
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Speaker 2: a serial killer. That said, again, thank you for being
4:59
Speaker 2: with us. I want to go first out of this
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Speaker 2: All Star panel to Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of
5:06
Speaker 2: the Cold Case Research Institute, star of a hit new
5:10
Speaker 2: series Zone seven. You can find her at coldcasecrimes dot org. Cheryl,
5:15
Speaker 2: can you believe this? How long have you and I
5:18
Speaker 2: and many others I can't take all the credit been
5:21
Speaker 2: saying there is a serial killer. I don't care what
5:24
Speaker 2: police are saying there's a serial killer.
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Speaker 6: It was pretty obvious to all of us. So again,
5:29
Speaker 6: whatever decision they.
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Speaker 2: Maybe they think we're idiots.
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Speaker 6: Well, I mean, if they already identified this guy on
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Speaker 6: their own, and they knew he was already locked up,
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Speaker 6: maybe they just wanted to keep playing it because they
5:41
Speaker 6: were interviewing.
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Speaker 2: People, Cheryl, he was released. Oh yeah, that's how all
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Speaker 2: the women, well a lot of them got killed. And
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Speaker 2: it'll be a cold day in HG double l that
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Speaker 2: I believe this is his first rodeo. I mean, Karen Stark,
5:56
Speaker 2: you're the renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan at
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Speaker 2: Karenstark dot com. That's Karen with a C. There's no
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Speaker 2: way these are his first murders. It's just not possible.
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Speaker 2: And I want to point out one more thing and
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Speaker 2: my analysis. I believe that the serial killer obviously used
6:14
Speaker 2: a car because these women are dumped. One was behind
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Speaker 2: a barn in a rural area. One was down a
6:22
Speaker 2: riverside parkway out in a remote area. They're found in
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Speaker 2: wooded and remote areas. He didn't drag them there on
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Speaker 2: his back. Okay, now let me throw you this detail,
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Speaker 2: Karen Stark. I understand that he has told people haven't
6:37
Speaker 2: found any verification of it yet, but he is a
6:41
Speaker 2: self proclaimed artist that he paints individualized, unique art on cars.
6:50
Speaker 2: So there you go that those cars, that any car
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Speaker 2: that he has used is full forensic evidence. But what
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Speaker 2: do you say, can and start first radio? Yes?
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Speaker 7: No, no, I really I can't imagine because when you
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Speaker 7: were somebody who was a serial killer the way that
7:08
Speaker 7: he is, and it's woman after woman after women. He
7:11
Speaker 7: had practiced on doing this, Nancy. I don't know how
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Speaker 7: he started or where he started, but there are bodies
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Speaker 7: somewhere that this man has definitely killed, and I'm sure
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Speaker 7: they're going to find other evidence, because that's just how
7:28
Speaker 7: serial killers work. They don't all of a sudden, most
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Speaker 7: of the time, just kill someone and say, yeah, I'm
7:34
Speaker 7: going to try it. They practice, They practice until they
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Speaker 7: really know what they're doing, and then they keep going
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Speaker 7: and it gets worse. So it's a good thing they
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Speaker 7: found him. And by the way, I think a thousand
7:46
Speaker 7: people who were released.
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Speaker 2: Early when he was Yeah, thanks Governor Jackie. Wasn't that
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Speaker 2: Governor Brown? Governor Brown? Now we've got kochake in. She
7:57
Speaker 2: is the one that signed the go get him put
8:00
Speaker 2: in behind bars order, But it was Brown that released
8:05
Speaker 2: him as part of a giant clean out of the jail,
8:10
Speaker 2: get out of jail free moment. Back to you, Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 2: director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl, what convince
8:18
Speaker 2: to you there was a serial killer long before the
8:21
Speaker 2: Portland police finally told the truth.
8:23
Speaker 6: Well, the dates you're talking about February nineteenth to May seventh,
8:29
Speaker 6: you've got four people in a small condensed area. They
8:35
Speaker 6: all are similar in age from twenty two to thirty one.
8:40
Speaker 6: They look kind of similar.
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Speaker 2: Again, the area that.
8:43
Speaker 6: They were last seen is critical. So if they're all
8:47
Speaker 6: in this downtown Portland area, a condensed area, and then
8:51
Speaker 6: they're all dumped in a similar area, that tells you
8:54
Speaker 6: right there you need to be looking at this as
8:57
Speaker 6: a connection as links.
8:59
Speaker 2: I want to go now to Annett Newell with k
9:02
Speaker 2: x L News and she's a host of speaking freely
9:05
Speaker 2: with Annette Mule and thank you for being with us.
9:09
Speaker 2: Thanks Nancy. What finally nudged the Portland Police to admit
9:16
Speaker 2: that there's a serial killer stalking women across the Portland area.
9:20
Speaker 8: You know, the Portland Police actually have not admitted that yet.
9:23
Speaker 8: The admission really came from the Moltnomah County District Attorney
9:27
Speaker 8: because the pressure had finally been too great for them
9:31
Speaker 8: to bear, because they've been getting Basically, we've known what's
9:36
Speaker 8: going on here. It's pretty obvious that there are links
9:40
Speaker 8: between these women. In fact, just this morning, I see
9:44
Speaker 8: in the Oregonian that investigators have been searching a Riverview
9:49
Speaker 8: apartment where Jesse Lee Calhoun, the suspect, lived with a
9:54
Speaker 8: girlfriend after his June sixth arrest, and that girlfriend confirmed
9:57
Speaker 8: that he had ties to two of these women, Ashley
10:00
Speaker 8: Real and Ridget Walker. So they all knew, we knew know.
10:04
Speaker 8: Some of these women knew each other. Two of them
10:07
Speaker 8: were good friends growing up as kids. They were friends,
10:11
Speaker 8: you know. So we've known that there's obvious connections here,
10:14
Speaker 8: and I think the pressure finally got so great that
10:17
Speaker 8: they had to come clean and say, yes, there is
10:20
Speaker 8: a connection here.
10:21
Speaker 2: Well, somebody's said, is going to roll a better role.
10:37
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
10:40
Speaker 2: Joining me. Also Jarrett Farentino, homicide prosecutor. You can find
10:44
Speaker 2: them on Insta and Facebook at Jarrett Farantino. Jarrett, did
10:49
Speaker 2: you hear what Annitt Neil just said. It's always shocking
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Speaker 2: to me to find out a serial killer has like
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Speaker 2: a girlfriend at home and a Riverview apartment blending in
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Speaker 2: with the rest of us. You can't look at someone
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Speaker 2: and tell what's going on, what's lurking behind that facade?
11:09
Speaker 2: I mean, look at the guy they've just arrested. For
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Speaker 2: the long Island serial killings. He has a wife and
11:15
Speaker 2: two children. He's a respected architect in New York City.
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Speaker 2: Kind of reminds me a little bit of BTK, the
11:24
Speaker 2: dog Catcher deacon at his church, wife, children, he was
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Speaker 2: killing women left and right, dressing up in their clothes
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Speaker 2: and taking pictures. Okay, so how these people I can't
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Speaker 2: say that Brian Coburger really blended in, right, He's getting
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Speaker 2: his PhD there at Washington State University, and he had
11:43
Speaker 2: been up to all sorts of freaky shenanigans before he
11:48
Speaker 2: gets charged with murder. But aside from him, so many
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Speaker 2: of these prolific killers blend in with everybody else.
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Speaker 9: Well, that's so true, Nancy, And you raise a good
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Speaker 9: point to talk about BTK and Cooleberger and this latest
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Speaker 9: the architect with the Gilo Beach murders Shereman, Yes, Hewerman.
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Speaker 9: And the reality is Calhoun is a little different than
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Speaker 9: those individuals. Calhoun is a career criminal and a violent criminal.
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Speaker 9: This is a guy who choked a dog when the
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Speaker 9: swat team came to get him.
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Speaker 2: Okay, I stop right there, Jarrett Farantino, I knew that
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Speaker 2: he attacked a cop and the K nine I did
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Speaker 2: not know he tried to choke the dog.
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Speaker 9: That's what was reported when the when the police came
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Speaker 9: to get him. So the reality is this is someone
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Speaker 9: that wasn't hiding in plain sight. This is a violent
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Speaker 9: criminal who has access to five hundred rounds of ammunition
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Speaker 9: in one arrest. He is always runs when the police
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Speaker 9: come from him. He's jumped in the river. He fights with.
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Speaker 2: The Oh yeah, I saw where he actually jumped and
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Speaker 2: that was it. The Willamette River. The Willamette River. Oh okay,
12:57
Speaker 2: you know, I thought it was Willamette. Willamette. Okay, hold
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Speaker 2: on just a moment, you know, let me just analyze
13:03
Speaker 2: that for a moment. Jarrett Farantine. When a cop pulls
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Speaker 2: up behind me, I fell over. I turned the car off,
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Speaker 2: I let the window down, and I sit there and
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Speaker 2: wait for them to say license registration. This guy jumped
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Speaker 2: in a river. Really, it just goes.
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Speaker 9: To the wiring inside of his head. You know. That's
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Speaker 9: a fight or flight scenario. And this is my ninety
13:26
Speaker 9: nine cent psychiatry degree. But the reality is some people react,
13:30
Speaker 9: they're compliant, they're fearful. Others want to fight and run,
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Speaker 9: and you just.
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Speaker 2: Never know because they are guilty well, typically.
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Speaker 9: They're guilty or running from something else. This guy is
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Speaker 9: running from the bodies he has buried all over the community.
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Speaker 2: I'm sure, let's just say they're guilty of something. It
13:48
Speaker 2: may not be running the stop sign, but I mean, really,
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Speaker 2: Karen stark As, I used to tell juries many many times.
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Speaker 2: I would tell the story about how I would stop.
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Speaker 2: But when a cop behind you, do you take off
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Speaker 2: at ninety MPAs to try to get away or jump
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Speaker 2: in a river? No, you don't, because you haven't done
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Speaker 2: anything wrong. When someone runs or jumps in a river
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Speaker 2: or tries to strangle a canine dog, I mean, yes,
14:15
Speaker 2: they're guilty.
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Speaker 7: They're not just guilty. They have no fear of authority.
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Speaker 7: That's somebody who no, I'll just turn around and fight. So, yes,
14:26
Speaker 7: they're guilty, but he's going to fight back no matter what.
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Speaker 7: There's a reason that this guy was incarcerated. He tried
14:35
Speaker 7: to kill the dogs. How many people have the strength
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Speaker 7: to do that. So I hate to say this, but
14:41
Speaker 7: just imagine what it was like for these girls, these
14:44
Speaker 7: women to have to deal with this guy. He's got
14:47
Speaker 7: incredible strength and no fear whatsoever.
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Speaker 2: Guys, we are talking about multiple women now, dead, Who
14:56
Speaker 2: are they? What happened? Let's first talk about Kristen Smith.
15:02
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our friend Drew Marine at KPTV.
15:07
Speaker 10: Melissa Smith says Kristin was last seen here in near
15:10
Speaker 10: Mulsule five. Take a look at this flyer they've posted
15:12
Speaker 10: around parts of Portland. Melissa says she likes to wear
15:16
Speaker 10: different wigs, so she may not look exactly like the
15:18
Speaker 10: photo on this flyer, but she has a tattoo of
15:22
Speaker 10: a red butterfly on her right hand.
15:25
Speaker 8: It is quite like a piece of you is missing.
15:29
Speaker 10: Each day that passes and Melissa and Hailey Smith don't
15:32
Speaker 10: hear from twenty two year old Kristen Smith, they get
15:35
Speaker 10: more concerned she's in danger.
15:37
Speaker 11: A main concern of ours now is sex trafficking. We
15:41
Speaker 11: don't know, but with things we've been told or you know,
15:47
Speaker 11: people that know her are saying it's a possibility, because
15:51
Speaker 11: this is not like her to just disappear.
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Speaker 2: And now I'll listen to our cut eleven KPTV.
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Speaker 12: Worland Police Bureau says they responded to reports of human
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Speaker 12: remains found in a wooded area near southeast Eerdorf Road
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Speaker 12: in Flavell Street on February nineteenth. Now authorities have confirmed
16:12
Speaker 12: the remains belonged to Kristin.
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Speaker 2: I think of her every moment of every day.
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Speaker 12: And her family search has turned into one for answers
16:20
Speaker 12: what happened.
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Speaker 11: I know she didn't just suddenly die out there.
16:25
Speaker 2: Somebody did something.
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Speaker 12: But they say closure would be finding out what happened
16:31
Speaker 12: to Kristin for.
16:32
Speaker 2: The truth to come out. She deserves justice. You've got
16:36
Speaker 2: to wonder how all of these victims' families are feeling
16:40
Speaker 2: after being told for so long there was not a
16:42
Speaker 2: serial killer, and now the truth coming out. And then,
16:45
Speaker 2: of course, in addition to Kristin, there's Joanna Speaks Take
16:49
Speaker 2: us an hour cut nineteen our friends at crimeonline dot Com.
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Speaker 13: Joanna Speaks is part of a big, blended family with
16:56
Speaker 13: three biological siblings, four step siblings, three nieces, one nephew,
17:00
Speaker 13: as well as three incredible children of her own One thirteen,
17:03
Speaker 13: Braxton twelfth, and Melanie seven. In a family this big,
17:07
Speaker 13: she was still able to stand out. Her stepsister Ariel
17:10
Speaker 13: Hanby says, as a youngster, she was loud and vibrant.
17:14
Speaker 13: Everything that she did was like go big or go
17:17
Speaker 13: home kind of attitude. Her older sister Robin Speak pointed
17:20
Speaker 13: out that she was a fighter, the wild one of
17:23
Speaker 13: all of us. Johanna Speaks was a big kid, hilarious, sarcastic,
17:27
Speaker 13: and super witty. She defines the term one of a kind.
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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to think about Joanna Speaks. His family
17:33
Speaker 2: standing by waiting to hear the latest on her death.
17:38
Speaker 2: And as you just heard, she is a mom, leaving
17:42
Speaker 2: behind children who will grow up without mom. So far,
17:46
Speaker 2: four of the dead women have been connected, we believe
17:50
Speaker 2: to a career criminal, jesse Lee Calhoun, and of course
17:56
Speaker 2: there's more. Take a listen to our cut twenty three Fox.
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Speaker 14: Just before six pm, Richfield Police and Clark Cowltzfire responded
18:04
Speaker 14: to this abandoned property and found Speaks dead.
18:07
Speaker 1: Near the barn.
18:08
Speaker 14: A medical examination ruled it a murderer, and Clark County
18:11
Speaker 14: Sheriff's believe she was killed elsewhere then moved to this location.
18:15
Speaker 14: But her killer has not been found.
18:17
Speaker 6: And there is no way that she would have gone
18:20
Speaker 6: down without a fight. So whoever did do this likely
18:24
Speaker 6: had injuries or something like that personally as well from
18:28
Speaker 6: her fighting back.
18:29
Speaker 7: How do you continue on?
18:32
Speaker 6: I don't know. Yeah, nothing is off the table. As
18:35
Speaker 6: to what we're thinking could have happened.
18:37
Speaker 14: The family of Joanna Speaks is left shock and speechless
18:41
Speaker 14: after getting a phone call that their thirty two year
18:43
Speaker 14: old sister from Oregon City was found near an abandoned
18:46
Speaker 14: barn in Ridgefield, Washington.
18:48
Speaker 2: And of course there's a Bridget. Take a listener, forensic
18:52
Speaker 2: KOI am.
18:53
Speaker 15: The Pope County Sheriff's Office investigating after a Milwaukee woman's
18:57
Speaker 15: body was found abandoned in their jurisdiction. A deputy say
19:01
Speaker 15: Bridget Webster's body was found on Sunday near Mill Creek
19:04
Speaker 15: in northwest Polk County. They say Webster was last seen
19:08
Speaker 15: alive in the Portland metro area. The Sheriff's office asking
19:11
Speaker 15: anyone who knew her or has information about her death
19:14
Speaker 15: to call detectives.
19:16
Speaker 2: So far, we're not getting a clear cause of death
19:19
Speaker 2: on all of the women. Those are several of the
19:23
Speaker 2: women that have been found their bodies littering the Portland area.
19:28
Speaker 2: Anette Newell joining us k exhale. Why are they withholding
19:33
Speaker 2: the cood cause of death? Now? I know one of
19:36
Speaker 2: the victims was bludgeoned, but what about the others?
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Speaker 8: Yeah, one of the family members of the one who
19:42
Speaker 8: was bludgeoned has been in communication with me, and she
19:45
Speaker 8: said that she believed that their bodies were further along
19:50
Speaker 8: decomposed more than her sisters was, so that made it
19:56
Speaker 8: more difficult to identify a cause of death. And she's
19:59
Speaker 8: been calling for the FBI to get involved because of that,
20:04
Speaker 8: because they've been they need more, you know, really good
20:07
Speaker 8: crime scene investigators with the tools to really investigate this.
20:13
Speaker 8: And and in fact, she just came up with a
20:15
Speaker 8: list of She says there are one hundred and fifty
20:18
Speaker 8: six missing women and female children in Oregon since January
20:23
Speaker 8: of this year. And she's even printed out a list
20:26
Speaker 8: of who's missing by age from the state's website. So
20:31
Speaker 8: to me, that's just a phenomenal number. But she's she's
20:34
Speaker 8: really gone after this. And you've spoke to her too.
20:39
Speaker 8: Her name is Ariel. You talked to her before when
20:42
Speaker 8: you had her on about Joanna speaks on your show.
20:45
Speaker 8: Joanna was the only one of the six women who've
20:48
Speaker 8: been found where they've definitively said yes, this woman was
20:51
Speaker 8: killed and the cause was murdered, murdered by you know,
20:56
Speaker 8: in this case, blunt force trauma. The other ones they're
20:59
Speaker 8: saying that they don't have a cause of death at
21:02
Speaker 8: least not yet.
21:02
Speaker 2: Interesting joining me right now, Doctor Todd M. Barr, Board
21:06
Speaker 2: certified anatomic clinical forensic Pathologists featured in Thin Places Essays
21:15
Speaker 2: from in Between, Doctor Barr, thank you for being with us.
21:18
Speaker 2: It would seem to me that even if a body
21:22
Speaker 2: had been lying out behind a barn or down a
21:25
Speaker 2: ravine for some period of time, you would still be
21:28
Speaker 2: able to tell if that body, if that victim had
21:32
Speaker 2: been bludgeoned dead, because the skeleton itself is not really
21:39
Speaker 2: conducive to deteriorating out the elements the way soft tissue is.
21:43
Speaker 9: That's correct.
21:45
Speaker 16: If there are you know, sometimes people can obtain fractures
21:50
Speaker 16: that are cells from various means. But in this kind
21:54
Speaker 16: of a situation that if a body is found and
21:57
Speaker 16: there's evidence of hemorrhage of blood on the even with
22:01
Speaker 16: the decomposing body, we can still tell if there's hemorrhage
22:04
Speaker 16: within the calvarian, within the head, and whether or not
22:08
Speaker 16: there are one force trauma applied with force to any
22:13
Speaker 16: part of the body.
22:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are.
22:17
Speaker 9: Certain things that we look for.
22:20
Speaker 16: I had a case that I worked on for a
22:21
Speaker 16: serial killing and his ritualistic maneuvers were to hobb tie
22:27
Speaker 16: these women after manually asphixiating them. So there are certain
22:31
Speaker 16: things that you can find even in decomposed bodies. In
22:35
Speaker 16: those bodies that I was just speaking of were also decomposed,
22:38
Speaker 16: and we were able to collect quite a bit of information.
22:41
Speaker 2: Guys. There is also an unidentified woman. Will she be
22:46
Speaker 2: connected to Calhoun as well? Take a listen to our
22:50
Speaker 2: cut b from KPTV.
22:52
Speaker 10: An unidentified woman between twenty five and forty years old
22:56
Speaker 10: was found dead near I Tool five and Southeast Fluville Street.
23:00
Speaker 10: The Moltnoman County Medical Examiner's Office is asking for the
23:04
Speaker 10: public's help identifying her and provided this sketch. They say
23:08
Speaker 10: she was possibly Native American, with medium length black hair
23:11
Speaker 10: and about five foot one. At the time, they say
23:14
Speaker 10: she was wearing a longsleeve green T shirt, a black
23:17
Speaker 10: and white jacket, and black and white Adidas cleats. She
23:21
Speaker 10: also had two tattoos, a black music note with the
23:24
Speaker 10: letter V on her chest and the Buddha on her back.
23:27
Speaker 2: Back to Cheryl McCollum joining us a founder and director
23:30
Speaker 2: of the Cold Case Research Institute. You can find her
23:33
Speaker 2: at Coldcasecrimes dot org. Cheryl, what strikes you the most
23:37
Speaker 2: about the way the women's bodies were found and what
23:42
Speaker 2: do you interpret from that?
23:45
Speaker 6: Nathie, you and I both know that the cut the bluff,
23:48
Speaker 6: they know things the street talks. I believe that there's
23:53
Speaker 6: some witnesses here that know this perpetrator, perhaps saw him
23:58
Speaker 6: with some of the victims, whether they knew the victims
24:02
Speaker 6: or not. But I think law enforcement god on his
24:05
Speaker 6: radar because of a witness. I think when you look
24:08
Speaker 6: at the bodies again, where they were taken from and
24:12
Speaker 6: where they were disposed of, these were not people that
24:17
Speaker 6: had a drug overdose. You're not going to take drugs
24:20
Speaker 6: on fourteenth STREETET and then walk four miles and drop
24:25
Speaker 6: dead on the side of the road of a drug overdose.
24:27
Speaker 6: That's not how it happened. They were transported and I
24:31
Speaker 6: think that's very clear when you look at the distances
24:34
Speaker 6: and you look at again where these started and where
24:38
Speaker 6: they ended.
24:38
Speaker 2: There's another victim, Ashley Real take listen to our cut
24:42
Speaker 2: three KG.
24:44
Speaker 17: We've heard from two of the law enforcementency agencies handling
24:48
Speaker 17: these cases, and basically they're not ruling anything out at
24:51
Speaker 17: this point. They're talking with partner agencies on the off
24:53
Speaker 17: chance these cases are somehow connected, and this comes as
24:56
Speaker 17: a relief to the family of one of the five victims.
25:00
Speaker 17: These woods off southeast jud Road in rural Clockamus County
25:03
Speaker 17: is where deputies discovered the remains of Ashley Reel. The
25:06
Speaker 17: twenty two year old was last seen in late March
25:08
Speaker 17: at a fast food restaurant and transit center in East Portland.
25:11
Speaker 17: These photos of Reel are some of the last before
25:14
Speaker 17: she turned up dead in that heavily wooded area.
25:16
Speaker 2: Kristen Smith, age twenty two, Charity Perry, aged twenty four,
25:21
Speaker 2: Bridget Webster aged thirty one, Ashley Reel age twenty two,
25:27
Speaker 2: Joanna Speaks age thirty two, and an unidentified female as
25:33
Speaker 2: young as twenty five. To doctor Todd m bar how
25:38
Speaker 2: can you tell the age of someone that is unidentified?
25:42
Speaker 2: Once they're identified, you can pull their driver's license or
25:45
Speaker 2: get their birth certificate and get the age. What about
25:48
Speaker 2: an unidentified female, how do you get the age on that?
25:52
Speaker 16: It's difficult depending on the state of decomposition, if a
25:59
Speaker 16: portion of the body skeletonized or if it isn't. We
26:02
Speaker 16: can always do a CP examination or radiological examination to
26:07
Speaker 16: look at the formation of the bones, We can look
26:10
Speaker 16: at the televis, We can look at various structures of
26:15
Speaker 16: the body that can indicate, like futures in the head,
26:19
Speaker 16: whether or not they've fused.
26:21
Speaker 9: There are certain diagnostic.
26:22
Speaker 16: Criteria that we can use to sort of give an
26:26
Speaker 16: estimated age. In fact, we use a lot of forensic
26:28
Speaker 16: anthropology in cases that are unidentified and skeletonized, and they've
26:34
Speaker 16: been very very helpful and successful with rendering drawings of
26:38
Speaker 16: what these people may have looked like alive, and combined
26:43
Speaker 16: with the findings of the anticomo anthropological examination, we can
26:49
Speaker 16: give it a range of ages. There's no magic wand
26:52
Speaker 16: that you can see, Oh, this one is specifically twenty
26:55
Speaker 16: five years old, but we would say this is a
26:59
Speaker 16: white woman between the ages of twenty five and thirty.
27:01
Speaker 9: Say look into that effect.
27:03
Speaker 2: How what is and how does a forensic anthropologist help you?
27:07
Speaker 16: Well, Forensic anthropologists are well versed in the structure of
27:12
Speaker 16: the human body with bones, and they can and when
27:17
Speaker 16: someone is skeletonized and you can't even tell if the
27:20
Speaker 16: person is male or female, they can They can look
27:23
Speaker 16: at various structures of the bones that are morph fitting
27:26
Speaker 16: and they can actually determine race. Many times as well,
27:30
Speaker 16: because there are differences between Caucasian features and other races
27:38
Speaker 16: that you can see differences in, so they're well versed
27:41
Speaker 16: in being able to sort those kind of things out.
27:55
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace, you.
27:59
Speaker 2: Know, I want toocus on how closely together the bodies
28:03
Speaker 2: were found. Is for not being told the CEOD cause
28:07
Speaker 2: of death on these women. We know one was bludgeoned
28:10
Speaker 2: that certainly wasn't an accident or suicide. Then she was
28:14
Speaker 2: dumped in a remote area and at Knewell. How closely
28:18
Speaker 2: together were the women's bodies found?
28:22
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think in one case it was like less
28:24
Speaker 8: than three miles from each other, and all within you know,
28:28
Speaker 8: certainly a seventy mile radius in the greater Portland metro area.
28:33
Speaker 8: They were found in different counties, which is interesting too.
28:36
Speaker 8: So that's why we have Clacamus County Sheriff's office investigating one,
28:40
Speaker 8: Paul County another, Moltnomah County another, and then the Portland
28:43
Speaker 8: Police Bureau on the fourth one. So all four of
28:47
Speaker 8: the women who are connected to that one person of
28:51
Speaker 8: interest were found in different counties under different sheriffs jurisdictions.
28:57
Speaker 8: But one question I had, maybe maybe the experts could
29:01
Speaker 8: answer is how they're calling him a person of interest
29:06
Speaker 8: but yet not a suspect.
29:08
Speaker 2: Why might that be? Okay, Jarrett Farentino, That actually made
29:12
Speaker 2: me chuckle with me. Jarrett Farentino, veteran trial lawyer and
29:16
Speaker 2: homicide prosecutor. JAREDT a person of interest to POI. Once
29:21
Speaker 2: you're called a suspect, you're formally named as a suspect.
29:26
Speaker 2: You are then cloaked, shrouded, protected with constitutional rights. When
29:31
Speaker 2: you're a person of interest, not so much. I mean,
29:35
Speaker 2: let's get real about this. He's the suspect. He's actually
29:39
Speaker 2: being detained. Of course, this guy's committed so many crimes.
29:42
Speaker 2: They could say, oh, we're detaining him on a shoplifting
29:46
Speaker 2: from twenty eighteen. They could say that, and it would
29:49
Speaker 2: absolutely be true. But he's behind mars right now, Calhoun,
29:54
Speaker 2: because he's connected to at least four of these women,
29:57
Speaker 2: and I'm betting through no two of them way back
30:02
Speaker 2: when in elementary or high school and day and night.
30:05
Speaker 2: That's my guess. But you go ahead and take a
30:09
Speaker 2: crack at that a really good and legal explanation of
30:13
Speaker 2: the difference between POI and suspect.
30:15
Speaker 9: Well, I'll try, but it's worse to be a suspect,
30:19
Speaker 9: nancy that one seems to have the greater degree of
30:23
Speaker 9: their stronger evidence, and you are likely to be gained
30:26
Speaker 9: a dependent around the corner. However, person of interest has
30:29
Speaker 9: become the preferred term of art. Cheryl could certainly tell
30:33
Speaker 9: you we were involved in the Britney Drexel case in
30:36
Speaker 9: South Carolina. Yes, and Raymond Moody was held as a
30:39
Speaker 9: person of interest all the while we knew he was
30:41
Speaker 9: a suspect had already confessed to the murders at that point.
30:44
Speaker 9: So although your resuscitation, your restation about what suspect and
30:50
Speaker 9: person of interest means is correct, it seems like the
30:53
Speaker 9: term of arts are used interchangeably at this point.
30:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. Basically, once you're detained, you have constitutional rise and
31:00
Speaker 2: detained can be in the back of a squad car
31:03
Speaker 2: or somebody saying hey, hold on, stop right there, and
31:05
Speaker 2: you have to stop anytime you're not free to leave.
31:09
Speaker 2: You are detained and your constitutional rights apply. You know,
31:13
Speaker 2: we were talking about a forensic anthropologist, and anthropology is
31:19
Speaker 2: the scientific study of the human. It can be the
31:24
Speaker 2: human body, the skin, the skeleton, the society, ways of communication, lore, history, culture,
31:33
Speaker 2: everything to do with a human. A forensic anthropologist is
31:39
Speaker 2: someone that uses that knowledge, in our case is typically
31:43
Speaker 2: knowledge of the bones and the teeth to help solve
31:47
Speaker 2: a crime. That's what a forensic anthropologist is, and we
31:52
Speaker 2: need one, a really good one. But back to POI
31:56
Speaker 2: versus suspect, Cheryl McCallum, I often say, you go from
32:00
Speaker 2: walking along the street minding your own business, to POI,
32:04
Speaker 2: to suspect, to defendant to inmate. Okay, that's the congression
32:15
Speaker 2: of that. So once you're a POI, you're on the
32:18
Speaker 2: slippery slope right into the CI Correctional Institute.
32:22
Speaker 6: Explain, well, let's talk about why I think he got there.
32:26
Speaker 6: In twenty eighteen, Jesse Lee Calhoun is arrested with methamphetamine,
32:32
Speaker 6: guns and five hundred rounds of ammunitions.
32:36
Speaker 2: Cheryl, I left out part of that. You go from
32:39
Speaker 2: walking along the street to being named a bona fide or,
32:44
Speaker 2: as my old law school professor James Rayberg would say,
32:48
Speaker 2: bona fidee. Pos Okay, we start right there, absolutely true, okay,
32:54
Speaker 2: or a POC technical legal term. Then you go to POI.
32:58
Speaker 2: You go from POC pretty quickly, Okay, back to you.
33:03
Speaker 6: Also in his background is burglary and stolen vehicle. So
33:07
Speaker 6: if the methamphetamine he was drug dealing, he ain't very
33:11
Speaker 6: good at it. Because if you're a good drug dealer,
33:14
Speaker 6: you don't have to burglarize or steal cars. You can
33:17
Speaker 6: pay for your own stuff. So this guy is stealing
33:20
Speaker 6: because he's a drug addict, I believe.
33:23
Speaker 2: Have you seen his booken? Have you seen his book?
33:26
Speaker 16: In photo?
33:27
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it looks like he just got out of a
33:29
Speaker 2: fight and he looks mean as h double. Well, let
33:31
Speaker 2: me tell you what I agree with both of them.
33:33
Speaker 2: I want to meet him in a dark alley unless
33:35
Speaker 2: I had a bullet, right.
33:36
Speaker 6: But this also goes to why the cause of death
33:39
Speaker 6: may be undetermined If this was a drug overdose because
33:42
Speaker 6: he's added sentinel to something, or he's got some street
33:46
Speaker 6: level myth. It's not as pure as it should be.
33:50
Speaker 6: Then somebody that might have used this drug before could
33:54
Speaker 6: in fact overdose, but it could be deliberate.
33:56
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on just a minute, boy, Can I follow
33:59
Speaker 2: through your line of thinking to its logical conclusion? Are
34:02
Speaker 2: you actually saying that some of these women died of
34:05
Speaker 2: an OD and then he carted their bodies away? Okay,
34:08
Speaker 2: that didn't happen. He murdered them. He did not inject
34:12
Speaker 2: them with bad drugs.
34:14
Speaker 6: Absolutely, he did well, we don't know yet, dejective.
34:17
Speaker 2: Of course, we don't know yet. But Annette Neil, I
34:19
Speaker 2: recognize your voice. You want to tell me these women odd?
34:22
Speaker 2: And then he dragged them on his tricycle eight miles
34:26
Speaker 2: away and don't their bodies. No, they did not die
34:29
Speaker 2: of him oding them. And if they had od'd, he
34:33
Speaker 2: would have left them laying right where they are. And
34:36
Speaker 2: one of the Portland Tints said he's full of drug
34:38
Speaker 2: addicts and nobody's helping Nancy Karen.
34:40
Speaker 7: Is that they that he bludgeoned one of them would
34:44
Speaker 7: do well?
34:44
Speaker 8: No weight, that's that that person is not connected yet.
34:50
Speaker 2: Are you talking about Joanna speaks.
34:52
Speaker 8: Johanna speaks, the one that we know is bludgeoned.
34:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I still say these women, I mean, it's
34:57
Speaker 2: not logical to think that he gave and bad drugs
35:00
Speaker 2: and they owe deed and so then he drags their
35:03
Speaker 2: bodies away. That's no. And he's connected for a reason.
35:08
Speaker 2: There's got to be some kind of DNA M something
35:11
Speaker 2: more than he knewed two of them in high school.
35:13
Speaker 7: Yeah, I want to add Nancy that he also I
35:17
Speaker 7: can't imagine someone who's a serial killer would want to
35:20
Speaker 7: just drug somebody. There's no fun in that for him.
35:23
Speaker 7: And believe me, he had a good time killing each woman,
35:27
Speaker 7: so that would be way too easy.
35:29
Speaker 2: Okay, Cheryl, what were you saying now that we have
35:31
Speaker 2: completely destroyed your theory of he intentionally drugged them? I
35:35
Speaker 2: don't even I can't believe he even said that.
35:38
Speaker 6: Are you having disorted? Let me just be clear. They
35:41
Speaker 6: knew this guy since high school? How long has he
35:45
Speaker 6: been a piece of crab?
35:46
Speaker 2: The whole time?
35:48
Speaker 6: He was a piece of crab in high school? Yeah,
35:50
Speaker 6: so why are they connecting with him now? Because there's
35:54
Speaker 6: a reason, and I'm saying him having drugs is a
35:57
Speaker 6: plausible reason they got together with him.
36:01
Speaker 2: What happened to ask for that.
36:03
Speaker 6: Is something different. So if he gave them pills that
36:06
Speaker 6: he knew was laced with sentinel at another location to
36:10
Speaker 6: do what he wanted to do, they couldn't fight back.
36:13
Speaker 2: Wait to do what he wanted to we're talking about
36:15
Speaker 2: raping them or killing them.
36:17
Speaker 6: Either or we don't we don't know, we don't know
36:20
Speaker 6: the information yet.
36:21
Speaker 2: I guarantee you he did not od them and sit
36:24
Speaker 2: back and watch him die. I agree with Karen start.
36:26
Speaker 6: I guarantee you drugs is a connection.
36:28
Speaker 2: Okay, Yes, I'm with you on that. He may have
36:31
Speaker 2: known them, Okay, I'll go out on a limb he
36:34
Speaker 2: did know them through drugs, or they're hanging out in
36:37
Speaker 2: the same area where drugs are sold. But there's no
36:42
Speaker 2: way a serial killer od somebody and sits there and
36:46
Speaker 2: watches them die. That's not going to be their coeod
36:50
Speaker 2: cause of death. Mate. They may have drugs in their system,
36:53
Speaker 2: but that's not going to be how he killed them.
36:55
Speaker 2: I mean, Farantina, for Pete's sake, throw me a life
36:58
Speaker 2: raft here.
36:59
Speaker 9: Well, well, it's typically this guy's getting his kicks by
37:03
Speaker 9: probably bludgeoning. Looking at his background, he has a violent background,
37:07
Speaker 9: so I wouldn't take the lead.
37:08
Speaker 2: He's straangled k nine Pee Paul. What's he going to
37:12
Speaker 2: do with these poor.
37:13
Speaker 6: Women, Nancy.
37:14
Speaker 7: He wants to see the life go out of them,
37:18
Speaker 7: you know, that's what he's about.
37:20
Speaker 2: Unless he's high on meth at the time, then he's
37:23
Speaker 2: out of his mind, kicking, punching, strangling, binding, totally out
37:29
Speaker 2: of his gord. Guy speaking of Jesse Calhoun, now, a
37:35
Speaker 2: POI in the case take a listening our cut forty
37:38
Speaker 2: four our forensic ka tu.
37:40
Speaker 4: The person of interest is thirty eight year old jesse
37:43
Speaker 4: Lee Calhoun. He's currently booked in the Snake River Correctional Institution.
37:48
Speaker 4: The Montnoma County Sheriff's Office has described Calhoun as a
37:51
Speaker 4: quote prolific thief and career criminal. He was serving as
37:54
Speaker 4: says for burglary when granted clemency by former Oregon Governor
37:58
Speaker 4: Kate Brown in twenty twenty one. This was for fighting
38:01
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty wildfires. The clemency shaved about twelve months
38:05
Speaker 4: office prison sentence. That sentence was set in July twenty
38:09
Speaker 4: twenty two.
38:09
Speaker 2: And more from our friends at kat you this is
38:13
Speaker 2: debornapp in our cup forty five.
38:14
Speaker 5: US Marshalls were asked to assist the Maltnoma County Sheriff's
38:17
Speaker 5: Office in apprehending Calhoun on June sixth.
38:20
Speaker 2: That was successful.
38:21
Speaker 5: Oregon Governor Tina Cote's office says she revoked the commutation
38:25
Speaker 5: for Calhoun July third, at the request of the Maltnonoman
38:28
Speaker 5: County DA's office, and who was readmitted to the state
38:31
Speaker 5: on July sixth. We reached out to former Governor Brown
38:34
Speaker 5: for a response on this. She replied with a statement saying, quote,
38:37
Speaker 5: I'm absolutely horrified for the victims, their families, and all
38:40
Speaker 5: of those who've experienced these losses.
38:43
Speaker 2: Wow. See how she dodged the fact that she's the
38:45
Speaker 2: one that let this guy out. And then about a
38:48
Speaker 2: year and a half or so, six days bodies emerged.
38:52
Speaker 2: Now four of these are being we've been told connected
38:56
Speaker 2: to Calhoun, and they are Kristen Smith, Charity Lynn Perry,
39:00
Speaker 2: Bridget Leanne Ramsey Webster, and Ashley Real. We don't know
39:05
Speaker 2: about the other two yet. Now, we were told that
39:09
Speaker 2: these women have similar appearances, that they have similar hangouts,
39:16
Speaker 2: similar characteristics. That's what we're being told. Are they the
39:21
Speaker 2: same places that Calhoun hung out. We are looking now
39:27
Speaker 2: at the possibility that his vehicle was used to transport
39:32
Speaker 2: these women. We're trying to find out if DNA deoxuribo
39:36
Speaker 2: nucleic acid is linking him to the women. We're trying
39:41
Speaker 2: to determine are they last seen in the same area,
39:45
Speaker 2: and we think that they are if a vehicle was used,
39:49
Speaker 2: Can we in any way get a route, even a
39:53
Speaker 2: partial route, so traffic cams can be accessed. There are
39:58
Speaker 2: similar disposal methods in all of the murders. So where
40:04
Speaker 2: do we go from here? Cheryl McCollum, It.
40:07
Speaker 6: Is imperative that we look at every unsolved missing person
40:12
Speaker 6: that's been recovered and not recovered. It's important because again
40:17
Speaker 6: we've already gone from four victims to six to possibly ten.
40:20
Speaker 6: There's possibly more. He was killing at a fast rate.
40:25
Speaker 6: He had very little downtime. Again, from February nineteenth to
40:29
Speaker 6: May seventh. You're talking about four people in less than
40:32
Speaker 6: three months, so there could be more. Again, I believe
40:36
Speaker 6: witnesses on the street know this guy. I think now
40:41
Speaker 6: that he's in jail, they're coming forward because they feel
40:44
Speaker 6: safe to do so. I think he's been a terror
40:47
Speaker 6: to the sex worker population, to the homeless population. They
40:53
Speaker 6: know this guy, and I think they are cooperating with
40:56
Speaker 6: law enforcement. And I think once law enforcement got his name,
41:00
Speaker 6: they went from videos to fell phones, to his vehicle,
41:03
Speaker 6: to cigarette butts, to hair to flock cameras, et cetera.
41:06
Speaker 2: This three eight year old self proclaimed automobile artist with
41:11
Speaker 2: a very long rap sheet six four to two hundred
41:14
Speaker 2: and twenty six pounds, taking advantage of the abolished police jurisdiction.
41:21
Speaker 2: It's a serial killer's dream come true, just stalking women
41:27
Speaker 2: on the street in Portland. We wait as justice unfolds.
41:33
Speaker 2: Goodbye friend,