Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / The Dance Teachers Who Impacted Us featuring Lesley’s Teachers

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The Dance Teachers Who Impacted Us featuring Lesley’s Teachers · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_04: Here at Making the Impact, we believe in the importance of honoring those who came before us.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_04: On today's episode, two of my most influential teachers join us for a walk down memory lane as we discuss the impact they had on me as a person and as a dancer.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everyone, it's Courtney Ortiz on Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast, and I'm here with my wonderful co-host, Leslie Miller.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Hi Courtney, how are you?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: How are you doing?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: So good.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: We are stoked for this episode, you guys.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: This is gonna be so much fun today.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know that you are definitely stoked for this episode, and I can't wait to uh hear more from your teachers that you grew up with because we are honoring our teachers this season on Making Impact, and we are kicking it off with Leslie's Teachers First.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it's gonna be such a beautiful episode that we've been dying to do for a very long time.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it is it's kind of nice because I feel like the last time, you know, anybody gets to hear somebody like talking about you in a reminiscing sense is like maybe high school graduation or college graduation or like some like big milestone in your life where people show up to just like wax poetic about you.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: And now I get to have that.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I haven't, you know, and it's been a while since I've heard, you know, high praise of Leslie Mueller.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_04: So excited for for what our guests have to reminisce about today in my dance life, and just so grateful for them for continuing to be inspirations to me and being willing to come on and chat today.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think that's why it's so important to honor our teachers because they made an impact in our lives, and our podcast is called Making the Impact.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, full circle, here we are.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to bring our teachers on for this season.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: And mine will uh be at the end of the season eight in May, most likely.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm already excited for that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: But until then, we can't wait to chat with Leslie's teachers today, and we have a few sponsors that we want to share with you.
• 2:31
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• 2:41
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• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: Selected winners can receive cash awards, mentorship from leaders in the industry, a lifetime of professional support, and the prestigious honor of being a young arts winner.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: As a previous young arts winner myself, I highly recommend that you check out this fantastic program and opportunity for your dancers.
• 3:05
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• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: The deadline to apply for their 2027 National Arts Competition is Tuesday, October 6th, 2026 at 8 p.m.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Eastern Time.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Learn more about Young Arts and start your application today by clicking the link in our show notes and visiting youngarts.org slash apply.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Dance World, we are back for our next episode in season eight.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: And this is gonna be a really special one, a heartfelt episode.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: And Leslie and I were chatting and brainstorming, and in the past few seasons, actually, this has been an idea that we just haven't been able to make possible until season eight.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: And we've been saying that we wanted to sit down and chat with some of the people who have made our dance experience so much better, who mentored us, who got us to the place we are today.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Here we are today, as professionals, as as adults.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: These people have shaped us in our childhood and helped us remember why we wanted to become dancers and how we could make this a career.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: So we are so excited to speak with our teachers on season eight of Making the Impact.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: And we are kicking in off the season featuring some of Leslie's favorite teachers and mentors in her life.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: So, Leslie, I would love for you to do some introductions of these wonderful guests who are joining us today.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah, like Courtney said, we are you've heard us talk for seven seasons now, coming into eight, about, you know, not only paying it forward and giving back, but also reaching back into time to honor the people that got us to where we are today.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_04: We talk about that constantly.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: So we're doing that officially today with our teachers.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, starting with mine.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: Courtney's will um come on at the end of the season.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: So we've got bookends, bookends of important teachers.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_04: But I would love to introduce two of my favorite teachers and two of the people that got me interested in pursuing dance as a profession, as more than just a dance educator, not just, but I wanted to do it all.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: And these people really helped me get to that point in believing in myself and mentoring me throughout that time period.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I would love to go ahead and start and introduce Kristen Cochran.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: Kristen and Don, actually, our second guest, were both students of my mom's, so that we have a very long history together in the Mueller family.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_04: And Kristen's gonna burst into tears any minute now.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_04: But I met Kristen first, so I'm starting with Kristen.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um and Kristen, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, where you uh came from in the dance world, and what you do now?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um uh Kristen Kopkowski Cochrane.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_05: Uh you met me when I was Kopkowski.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_05: And uh I am a proud graduate of the Cobb County Center for Excellence in Performing Arts.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I went to high school at Pebble Brook and was a dance major there.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um I started working as a teacher for Brenda Miller when I was at the dancer studio when I was in college.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um I started as a dance therapy major at Georgia State University and didn't finish that, um, but did finish my Kennesaw State University uh degree in psychology and a minor in law.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_05: And um after college, I I was working with Brenda while I was in college, and that's when I started teaching Leslie.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_05: It was a million years ago.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_05: Amazing.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: No, it was a long time ago, but um, yeah, so we Kristen was my teacher mostly in middle school and a little bit in high school.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so many of my formative dance years came from having Kristen as my teacher.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so let's move on to Miss Dawn.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I can't drop the miss, it's really hard after so long of the, you know, miss whoever you are.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: So Miss Dawn came into my life, I think around like eighth grade, 1999-ish, something like that.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um that sounds enough.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_04: And taught me all through high school.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, choreographed my, I talk about this solo a lot, but it was the first solo that I did at a dance competition that had levels my senior year.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: And the solo that Dawn choreographed for me, India Ari, Ready for Love, one of my most favorite songs in the world.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: I was certainly not ready for love, but I was ready to be in that advanced category, uh, in which I received a 10th place out of 11th, and I was very proud of that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but Dawn, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself, your dance journey, um, and what you do now?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh mine was a little more unconventional.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't really start dancing till I was 15.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was a competitive gymnast for nine years before that, and then seguayed into the dance world.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Ended up, I met your mother actually back when I was teaching for Becky Jones, um, an icon here in the Cobb County Dance Network.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we also, my dance teacher and your mother were very close as well.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um that's kind of how I segue knowing into Brenda knowing Brenda and all of that good stuff.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: But so I only took a couple of years in high school, took dance, and then went on to college and actually got a degree in dance um and dance education and taught ever since.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: I taught even when I was in high school, but then after college, I retired probably about five years ago.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I taught for a little over 35 years because I'm old.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of got to the way I got to Leslie was there was something, I don't know.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there was a uh a fill need in the staff at her mom's studio.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, Listen, I know, I know you're teaching somewhere else, and I know you've got but do you have this one night that you could come over?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yes.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: So um I started teaching, I think it was ballet and jazz first, um over there for their company.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was like, Do you do you have one more night?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe one more night you could I said, sure.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: So um I got to spend several years over there, and that's how I got to know Leslie and her sister and um all sorts of other people and just loved it.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I recognized really soon that um Leslie was a special student who had a passion and a drive for wanting to go further than just where she was at the moment and dance, and I latched onto that real quick.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I was glad you came because there were, you know, and people have heard me talk about this too.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: There was our studio just didn't have a lot of people who wanted to pursue it any further than just a couple days a week.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I was so hungry for more.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, you came in with, you know, so much different experience.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: You introduced us to modern, you introduced us.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I say this about both of you, but um, most of my musical like obsessions came from both of you, like the reason I love the indigo girls, Don Parker, the reason I love Dave Matthews band, Kristen Cochran.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like these are they're just like formative, and like if if you know me, you know that about me.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like that is those are important things to me that came directly from you know, knowing you guys, in addition to all the dance, you know, mentoring and things like that.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, I think people, I I know other people know this, but just as sometimes as teachers, when we have so many teachers that listen, just know that like you affect your students in so many more ways than just teaching dance steps.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you ever feel like, oh, yeah, am I doing anything?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_04: Is this even getting to them?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, somebody loves the band you love because you love them and you talk or could hate.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Or hate, that's true.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I love, love, love hearing about y'all's connection.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, like you said, Leslie, there, our teachers make such an impact on us.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, making an impact, make such an impact on us while we are growing up in our time at the dance studios, and it stays with us into our adulthood in so many different ways outside of just the dance steps and what we're learning inside that classroom, the classroom door.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I love hearing all of your intros and more about you, but let's spin it back to Leslie and what you remember about Miss Leslie Ann Mailer when she was a student of yours.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: What were some of the things that stood out to you when you started working with Leslie, when uh you were first introduced to her, or even through your time working with her as a teacher and mentor?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I kind of said already, Leslie stood out because Leslie was very driven.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: She was ready to bring things to a different level.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And really not only with herself, but just in general with her group.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: She she wanted people to love dance, like she loved dance.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: And she let them know that really quick.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: She would let them know that in a great way, though.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: In a great way.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: I remember Leslie, I was coming into a situation where um I was changing some things up, and not everyone loves that.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Not everyone loves change.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're not wearing pajama pants to Bella anymore.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: We are going to have an actual dance attire because when we dress like dancers, we feel like dancers a little more, in my opinion.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um so there started to be guidelines, and of course, there was definite pushback at first, but Leslie was just constantly encouraging, even as a teenager.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: She was constantly encouraging and you know, just just saying, Come on, guys, we, you know, you guys say you want to take it, you know, to another level, but this is part of it.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Structure is part of it, you know, discipline is part of it.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: So um I just remember her always being present, always being positive, and always just working really hard.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you remember those students and you know really quick when a student, when you you come in, I I've taught a lot of kids, you know.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I I can recognize really quick when they have that drive, that passion, that spirit, and um, they're willing to sacrifice and it's hard because you know, I teach high school now, and and and you want high schoolers to be high schoolers and you want them to have that experience, but you do have to make choices.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: You have to start making choices once you kind of dig into something and become serious about it.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: And she she was always we're willing to do that.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: She was also willing to learn other things.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: She did theater in high school.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I went and I remember going and seeing her in Children of Eden.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um over Yes.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: I I remember, yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, like it it's important.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: She was willing to expose herself, she was willing to go out there and be vulnerable.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew I was like, she she'll be one, she'll be one that can do this, she can go for it further, and um, she can make a career out of this if she wants to.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: I remember one of the first things that you brought into the studio that people were not jazzed about was like progress reports.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, give me that progress report, tell me what I can do better.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like I want, you know, if I if I had a B plus, like I wanted to make it an A.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted to do better.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: And man, I just remember my sister was pissed about it.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like everybody was like, I don't come here for that.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I do.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: Give me.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: Cause like feels like too much like school, maybe.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Probably, yeah.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: But it was one of those things where they uh we just we needed a baseline to be able to go, okay, here's kind of where we're at.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Where do we want to be?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um weirdly enough, there was there was a buy-in at some point.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like people started going, oh wait, okay, I see, I see, like we're doing a little better, we're doing this, we're doing that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, it was it was definitely a learning curve and a progress getting in or a process getting into it.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: But we got there, we got there.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: Kristen, you're up.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um I I think that the the biggest thing that stands out to me is that Leslie is and was a perfectionist.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_05: And like you say, Don, she wanted the criticism, she wanted the critique, she wanted um the support to be better and the information to get her there.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_05: And she was open to advice and information and um sought it out.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um and sometimes she was moody and a teenager, and I I think I had her at a younger age, so maybe experience that a little bit more.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but also definitely the ringleader in class um wanting to, you know, start class on time, show up, be there, be present.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it was hard for us, I think, and maybe you too, Dawn, because high schoolers a lot of the time have class at the end of a very, very long day.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, eight o'clock at night, five, you know, that's seven, eight o'clock at night, starting classes.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_05: And um I feel like that's a really hard time to motivate anyone.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um I was certainly had a hard time.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, hard time, you know, staying motivated, especially if I had a baby class that morning at 10.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I was still dancing and on my feet.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_05: And uh at that time we were dancing in heels all day long.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_04: We what we did tap and heels.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_05: All day long.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_05: I probably yeah, yeah, probably 12 hours.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_05: We taught the baby classes in college.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_05: We were always in heels.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_05: So um, and as a teacher, you were in higher heels, right?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, the little dancing dancing and why I definitely remember the heels.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: My feet are still after two reconstructive surgeries.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, remembering those heels.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_05: So many women have phones and all kinds of other you know major issues, not only from heels but point shoes and everything else that we put our feet through to dance and express ourselves.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but back to Leslie, I think that she was always committed and loved to dance, like you say.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_05: And um I think that she has always been motivated to do more.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_05: And not only that doesn't only mean like leave Georgia and do something different and create a different path for herself, but also just do more in general um in the dance world and make it better and bring her view of perfection maybe to some points and clean it up a little.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I I I really appreciate that point of view from her.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_05: I I I think I'm a perfectionist a bit as a teacher and in my own life.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_05: And so I've always been um joyful at her expression and enjoyed watching her dance and watching how particular she was about expressing what she thought I was scaling in my choreography, um, and really trying to pinpoint the dance and the music and get it right.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_05: That was she's always been an artist that way.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: You still want to get it right.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, we all do.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Still working just as hard to be the perfectionists forever.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like in as dancers, we are always perfectionists trying to get it right all the time.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it, I mean, that's that's what makes such a great student, you know, someone that you can see in their eyes that they want to be there, that they have the the love for it, the heart for it, and that they're putting the work in.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that is is a dream student for every teacher.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes, as we've probably all experienced in our time as teachers and even as students standing alongside others, that's not always the case for every dancer that's in that room.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it makes our job as educators even harder to try to find pull the love out of them and hope that it's somewhere deep within.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: But if someone's pouring their heart out to you as a student and and is eager to learn and is eager to move forward with what's next in their dance life, then it's it's just it's so refreshing as a teacher.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure I can tell that you both felt that while working with Leslie.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I felt like I had to show up for her.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_05: I really did.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's a great way to put it.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_05: Um, especially because I was in college and doing other things.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_05: And um it's not that I wasn't definitely focused on being a dance teacher, but um, especially for her and her solos and things like that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_05: I really felt like I needed to give her exactly what she was looking for because I knew she could do it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was pregnant during one of them.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent around on the floor.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I remember I remember, yeah.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like that didn't stop.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: You weren't that one can stop, you know.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: And you you did include a lot of floor work uh because of the modern background and I'm just a big floor work person.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_05: I choreographed one of Leslie's um solos when I was working on board a yacht as a charter ship, and it would uh whenever I had a moment free, would stick my um headphones on and and try to listen to the music and do some choreography and have a moment.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Probably like for certain students, you know what I mean?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's all certain students go to those links for.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and this was before anything like this.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we had no you weren't sending me a VHS tape, like you were writing down notes.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_04: You were emailing me, you were you know coming back for a few hours when you were home at Christmas to run and knocked it out.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I think Dawn might have actually even like helped a little bit.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: This was a jazz dance.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: Van Morrison.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was moon dance.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: I remember, yes.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, it takes a village to pull dance to your nest.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_05: But you know, it really was something that I enjoyed doing and was committed to it and wanted to do it.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_05: I really did enjoy doing it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_05: And um, and like you said, it was my mom paid you didn't pay you.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um shorthand, it was literally, like you said, shorthand notes, you know, that I took while I could.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_05: And um then I would type them out on email and send them over to your mother because you didn't have email.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um I missed yeah, I missed your mom.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um, which isn't that funny.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: That is funny.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious to know if Leslie, did you pick Kristen and Don as your solo choreographers or did your mom pick them?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Or how did how did that work?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, well, we didn't have a lot uh very many more teachers.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um we had a tap teacher who also did some of the jazz.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's Rachel, who also was a student of my mom's.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um Rachel did, I think, one of my college audition solos.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: Don did the other one.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I think Don might have done one of my so or Rachel might have done one of my solos at some point, but uh her style just was not mine.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_04: And like we weren't every no not everybody was doing solos at that point at the studio.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a little bit of like, well, Leslie cares and Leslie's Leslie wants to go do this.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: So like Leslie can pick, and I was Brenda Mueller's daughter, so sometimes that worked in my favor.
• 22:50
  unknown: That's great.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, to be the studio owner's daughter.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, no, I I'm pretty sure I chose vaguely remember like you definitely talking with you about your solos.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: I remember that you you we had talked, but um I mean a couple of the other girls I think also um I think I don't know if Brenda chose her.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: I've never thought about that, to be honest with you.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: But well, I know she didn't want to do them.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_04: So she was probably like anybody else.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_04: Anybody want these solos?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: She did not like to use solos.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: She did not.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm sure I I mean I don't know, but Leslie, did you want your mom to do the soul your solo?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: New.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: New Yeah.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: I I can only imagine the dynamic of like a you know, studio owner dance teacher who is also your mom.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like you like as a as a dancer growing up in this, you'd probably be like, nope, I want this.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: I want anyone else.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_05: And also you had very different tastes in music than her mother did and could relate a lot more to her.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_05: Her mother could.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Me and my emotions are.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, what I'll what I'll say about Solo Land was, and I I I think people have heard me talk about this too, but like I am I am a dedicated records keeper.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_04: So I have a journal that is like I can go back and tell you the conversation we had in December of the year 2002.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like I it's all there.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: So like I have a very good trove of memories from all of this time period.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: And Kristen, I had asked you to do a solo for me, and I brought you this Sarah McLaughlin song, and I wrote out like a thesis on why I needed to do this particular song.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_04: And this particular song was like, you know, Sarah McLaughlin is sad.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_04: Just of course she is because she's sad.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_04: But it was, it was just very deep.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_04: It was very emotional.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: I think this was this was well before senior year.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: So it was, you know, an early, an early emotional lyrical solo that I wanted to do.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_04: And Kristen, you said no.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_04: You were like, no, this is not, I can't, I can't do this.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_04: And so you suggested other songs, and we ended up with Tori Amos's winter, which was completely appropriate and wonderful, and like ended up being a beautiful solo that I really enjoyed.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: But like so, why why did you say no?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: The song was too mature.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um I just said, you're too young to dance this dance.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: You haven't experienced anything that she's talking about.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_05: You and I have not know her hurt and angst and um I might be able to pull off some choreography.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I I haven't even, you know, been there.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but I just felt like you were too young to be able to dance that dance to appropriate to I respect that so much.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel passionately about that.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even choreograph that stuff anymore, but I I see dancers, this is totally off topic, but I see dancers dancing to material and executing what is supposed to be moves that are not they they there's no way they could have experienced that to be able to tell that story.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_05: It's not age appropriate.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's not God, I hope they haven't experienced it to tell that story.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Hey dancers, it's Courtney.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're 15 to 18 or in grades 10 through 12, you need to know about a life-changing organization called Young Arts.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of the only programs in the United States that supports young artists across 10 disciplines, including dance.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: From ballet, jazz, contemporary, hip-hop, app, and even world dance.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: All genres are welcome and encouraged to enter into their national arts competition.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: When I was awarded as a Young Arts winner of distinction back in 2007, it completely changed my life.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: I received mentorship from Dance Legends at Young Arts Week Miami, made lifelong friends and connections, and the scholarship prize helped launch and fund my dance career in New York City.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: And to this day, Young Arts continues to support its alumni with grants, funding, and even podcast sponsorships.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: So now it's your turn to experience all that Young Arts has to offer.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Apply today to enter into their 2027 National Arts Competition before the deadline on October 6th, 2026, at 8 p.m.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: Eastern Time.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Click the link in our show notes to learn more or visit their website at youngarts.org slash apply.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I think that says so much about you, you both as educators and guiding Leslie in that way because this is like a good learning lesson for all of our listeners out there because we talk about this so frequently on the podcast that, like, you know, yes, a dancer needs to connect to their music.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Leslie, you wrote a whole thesis on why you connect to this song, and this is why I need to dance my solo to this song.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: But then the adult steps in.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_05: Well, the maybe, maybe because I was in the middle of, you know, getting a psychology degree and uh kind of focusing on child psychology and that kind of stuff, and um just listening to the music, sitting there listening to the song with her, even watching her face.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, she doesn't get it.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_05: She this isn't no.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_05: I just love Sarah.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_05: Her voice is amazing, her music is fabulous.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but it's not appropriate for uh I mean, yeah, I guess you're like 13 or 14 at the time.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I was definitely like barely in high school.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um but you know, that also goes to show like that that it has always been the type of music I love, that I feel and that I want to dance to.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_04: And then only, of course, in the last like 15 years have I experienced the heartache and the like you know horrific emotional stuff that goes on in some of the music.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_05: Like right now at 41, I could think of you that I was about to say maybe, maybe I think maybe there's a solo in your future.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe now.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do a solo, Kristen.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Let's that start taking some notes.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: I I've heard so many times people say, Well, you know, it doesn't matter, they're paying for it.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Just do what they want.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sorry, you're paying for me as a professional.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, exactly.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: So do my job.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, my job is to steer you where you should be.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I feel very passionately about that.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And even with I'm a theater director now, and even with picking material for high school, like I am not going to pick material that high schoolers shouldn't really be doing.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that's controversial, and other people have different opinions, and I respect that for them, but um I think we need to let these kids be kids sometimes.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_05: I remember um feeling like we were behind the times, I guess is the best way to say it.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_05: When we would go to dance competitions because we were really being careful about the product that we were showing and the material that we were using, and other studios were not.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_05: And I can remember sitting next to Brenda Mueller and being gobsmacked at what we were watching on stage, um, and the age category and large, large, you know, large age group category.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_05: We have, you know, like 12-year-olds dancing with 18-year-olds.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_05: And it it's just um it was just inappropriate, totally inappropriate.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_05: And we felt at the end of the day, proud of what we came with, and we were still award-winning, you know, an an award-winning studio, even though we weren't dancing to nasty music and gyrating, you know.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um it was it was amazing to see, and that was when was that?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_05: In the nineties?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_05: Nineties.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Umly two thousands.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I haven't reached that much.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, they haven't it was time for me to get out for a part of that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: My I can't hold my tongue like I used to, but I can remember having conversations with Leslie about the difference between relevance, um, relevance in in style and convention and and genres and those kind of things and trendy.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's a difference.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I feel like relevance is is important.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's important to stay out there and continue your education and for teachers to, you know, keep up with um what's going on out there.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: But um I think you have to be careful with trends, they go away.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the people who are really great at trendy things may not be the ones that are gonna last in an industry.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's the people that keep their training, um, know what's out there, know what to deliver.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh like I said though, in an appropriate format.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and that's I mean, I I feel like that's, you know, Courtney and I trained very differently growing up, but I think at the heart of both of what we experienced is is that is that like technique doesn't go out of style.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_04: Good training is always going to support no matter what you end up doing later, you know.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I was so grateful, you know, Dawn, when you invited me to the other studio you taught at at the time and took modern.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: I took modern for the first time at your studio because we didn't offer it.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you were just down the street at Great Gig, and I got that experience of understanding, oh gosh, well, is this something I need to pursue?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and you know, I I ultimately did not, and the school that I went to didn't even offer it.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it was it was so nice to just have that opportunity to to learn a foundational style and decide for myself, you know.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: Otherwise, I think I would have still never even encountered it because I wouldn't have had the opportunity to.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: I and of course that was my baby.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Modern dance was uh and is and is still.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, but it's I think that's important too, to be able to be open to exposure and to um put yourself out there in new.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: I I I mentioned that before with you, that you you were always, you know, willing to expose yourself to other things to learn.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't mean you have to like it, doesn't have to mean you have end up having to do it, but you develop an appreciation for the art form as a whole so that you can go out there and and tell your kids to go see other things.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's been plenty of modern dance out there that I go, what the heck is this?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, you like walking around in a circle and you know, call it a piece.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but it is art to someone, it's no different from visual art or anything else.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: So to be able to tell kids you need to learn about it.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to like it.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: You have to learn to appreciate it.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you if you want to be an artist and you want to be a good student, you have to do that in anything, not just, you know, that's not just dance.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's really anything.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_05: It is.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_05: I think that one of the things I really enjoyed about uh my experience at um CCC EPA was that we had um, you know, book class and dance class.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_05: We were doing educational work with our bodies and our minds.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um and that was a really uh important thing, I think, to the program and for us um develop as to to develop as dancers to understand where the different styles came from.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_05: How did that, you know, how did those mesh?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_05: What what became of um, you know, how did Tap begin?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_05: How you know, all those those things that uh I found very interesting, but it also I think enriched my dance and my performance um because I had even a larger background in dance and dance history and uh everything that made moving to rhythm happen.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Speaking of our time and education and going into college, and I'm speaking for the view from Leslie's point of view, she is eager to go to college.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: She is expressing interest in continuing her dance education.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure she brought that to both of your attention.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: You were very probably heavily involved in that decision for her.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: Were you were you both able to guide her in the right ways?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: What were your thoughts on where she was choosing to go, where she ended up going?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: How did you prepare her for college?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because I feel like that that's always a sticky, hard time for a teacher sometimes is, you know, you put all this work in at your studio and now it's time to spread your wings and fly.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: But not every studio really knows what's the best path and knows how to guide their dancers in the right direction.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and a lot of dancers are seeking that mentorship from their teachers that have brought them up.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I I remember like a lot of when I was in that decision-making time, it was it was tough.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, one person's gonna tell me one thing, another person's gonna tell me another thing.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know which way to go.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I'm curious to know like if you can think back to that time because that's a really influential time for for dancers making a big transition like that in life.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: I having a dance degree myself, I know a lot of times I'm not probably not the parents' uh favorite person because I am going to always encourage them to go and get um an art degree if they want it, and not say it's not say you need something for backup or not say do it for backup, because I was in a special situation.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was the first person in my family to go four years to college.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't really think they cared what you know I was doing.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was always supported by my family.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I do know it's hard for a lot of families when your child's saying they're gonna go get a dance degree or a theater degree or a music degree or, you know, but um I mean I'm proof that it's it it's possible.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I tell people that there are people out there with degrees that have never used them.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: They've like they've gotten a journalism degree or some other, you know, and they've never used it.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I've used mine every single day of my life since I graduated college.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Every single day, even as in theater.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I I just don't have a problem with that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew that's what she wanted to do.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: We we had many conversations about it.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think mostly a lot of the conversations we had was which way do you want to go?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to perform or teach?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because that does drive, I think, where you need to choose for college.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think teach, you you need to look at, you know, programs that are more based in education, uh, where you're getting those kind of classes.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you're gonna perform, that's you know, you're looking more at a BFA type program where you're gonna get that conservatory type, you know, type driven classes.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember us having a good bit of conversations about, okay, what do you want to do?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not what do you want to do as a dance, but what do you want to do with dance?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: And she was always very adamant about performing.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was never she never really wavered from that.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um and she could sing.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: So she knew she had that component as well.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I all I mean, I knew Oklahoma City was a great place for all of those, all of those things and for performance.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: So um when she told me that's where she was looking and when she got into it, I I was 100% um on board with that.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: I remember um, you know, I only auditioned for four schools OCU, Point Park, Florida State University, but for the musical theater program and the University of Georgia.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, being from Georgia, uh, I was a great student, and Georgia has what at the time had, I don't know if they do anymore, um, the Hope Scholarship.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I could have had a free ride at UGA, no problem.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, that's what my parents wanted because they wanted, you know, a free, a free tuition situation.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: But um, you know, UGA is where you went to school, Don.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it it is and was and still is a great program.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_04: It was just more modern-based.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_04: It was more teaching based.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: And things might have changed a little bit now, but I got in there.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_04: I did not get into Point Park.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I did not get into FSU Musical Theater, because they take eight people, probably still.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_04: Still certainly certainly was not me.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, OCU uh, you know, uh accepted me.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: So it was kind of a no-brainer at that point because it was the only place that that accepted me.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, you you helped immensely with that process of choreographing, I think, my point park audition video, because I had to audition via video for that one.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um and they were they really wanted your ballet bar.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_04: They wanted the picture in arabesque, they wanted a picture in all second, they wanted all these, you know, very um ballet and modern-based looking submissions.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I probably still have that DVD somewhere because I had to submit a DVD.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's really cool.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta find that.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I know, I know.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: I I wish that I had Wait, DVD really?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, she has everything.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe she's an archivalist of her own live.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: But like I'm just trying to remember because like I feel like when I was doing it, I feel like like I was a few years later, and I feel like I was submitting VHS, but I could be very wrong.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't remember.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's either on VHS or on DVD, and it is absolutely at my parents' house in my bedroom on the left hand side of the closet.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: That's exactly where it is.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_04: That is we will try to find that before this goes live.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: Let's do that.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: Let's, oh my God.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, Kristen, I'm sure I emailed you.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Kristen and I have have a very interesting relationship because we stayed in very good touch for years and years.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, just from the minute she left on a boat to go be on a yacht and do that part of her career.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, we emailed constantly.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I probably emailed you a lot about college decisions and things like that.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: If you remember probably your your own.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_05: And I wasn't I wasn't uh I was at mine, I'm at Mind Spring, even that even that older, yeah.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_05: Mindspring.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_05: Even older, yeah.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_05: So um, but uh I remember, I do remember the emails, and I I wish that I could have been more helpful, but I really don't didn't have um any experience in that realm.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not um I didn't get a dance degree, I didn't finish um my degree at Georgia State for therapy, um, but that wouldn't have been helpful for you anyway.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, but that at least the experience, I did enjoy uh being able to dance with the dancers from the Atlanta Ballet while I was working on my degree.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_05: That was really cool.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um But the um I thought the most important thing was that yes, you do try to obtain some sort of degree.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um in my mind, it was more of a um dance management um degree or something like that, so that she could possibly take over her mom's studio or start her own studio or um pick up something like you guys were doing at, you know, I DA and know all of the financial background stuff for it and be able to do, you know, um that so easily.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I need that help, Leslie.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_05: You should go back to that degree, right?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, I'm just saying that you know that's exactly in my mind.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but at the same time, I wanted her to do whatever it was she was passionate about.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_05: And she's always been passionate about performing.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_05: She's such a wonderful performer, and it's such a joy.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um, she's such a lovely dancer, and it's it's it's just nice to watch her move.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um, no matter what dance style or genre or what she's moving to, um her perfectionism uh bows her well.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_05: She she does every every move is, you know, um just fabulous.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm it's funny that you say that because I'm even like that.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't really dance anymore.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: I have you know ankle injuries, and but what I do do is um dissect other people's dancing on, you know, videos that we receive for online critiques or when I go judge.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I I'm I'm nitpicky.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like if I was still really teaching, I would be a very, very nitpicky teacher because I don't care if you're you rotated 14 times, but if you had a low releve, then all you did was rotate 14 times.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_04: You did not do 14.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't well executed.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_04: You'd be on releve.
• 43:25
  unknown: Right.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_04: So like I think I think that's part of, you know, my training growing up and like knowing, you know, I was trying to achieve expectations that even maybe my teachers didn't even have, but I was like, I have these expectations.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think that makes me a better educator, you know, because I am willing to not overlook the little things and I'm not willing to let somebody slide, you know, just because, oh, I I did that three times.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: No, you didn't.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: You did not.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I love you.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna tell you this with love, but like I know you can be better.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_04: Some tough love is and that is fantastic what you're teaching.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 43:59
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Other thing I r I remember having a lot of conversations about, because you you you brought up uh Kristen, you brought up about like um taking over her mom's studio or owning a studio.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: I she was very passionate that she wanted to go.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like she did not want to stay even in the town.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like she she wanted to see things, she wanted to go places.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: So after um she graduated and she told me she got the contracts on the cruise line, I remember thinking she's doing it.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like she's doing exactly what she wanted to do.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she did not want to be here, she did you know, she wanted to go see things, she wanted to get out there.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember thinking, I'm so proud of her for sticking by because it would have the safe thing to do would have been to stay somewhere, um, do exactly what we were talking about, take over your mom's radio, um, you know, uh, or or teach there for you know, and Leslie was just like, that's not what I want.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: I want to dance, I want to perform, I want to see places.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I'll never forget her letting me know about this con uh about the cruise contracts and um and not only just like but I mean like international, you got to go all over the world and you know, and I just I remember thinking, yes, yes, I knew she would.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: I never thought she would.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like ever.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, knowing her, knowing her drive, it never wavered in my mind that she wouldn't or couldn't.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was so fulfilling.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, it's just fulfilling when you have a student that keeps you informed of what they are doing and and remembers, you know.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of them.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: I've had students that go on and basically have told people, well, you know, I was self-taught.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: You were not there was I mean, no, you weren't, you know, and ego comes in there, and I always I'm always thrilled when there's there's that ounce of humility in saying, This is where I came from.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is you, you know, yes, I came from a studio in Kennesaw, Georgia.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um and look at all I've done.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's amazing.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_05: I'm the one that suggested that she auditioned for the cruise ship.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because I wouldn't be here if I if you didn't do that.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_05: I missed a um an audition for a cruise line when I was a senior at um Pebble Brook, and I had um I was dancing at Six Flags and uh broke my left ankle and was um unable to do the audition in December.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_05: And I always lamented the fact that I wasn't able to do that audition because I knew that's really what I wanted to do.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um and so when Leslie was talking about, you know, well, what's the next step?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm, you know, gonna be graduating, I haven't really decided what is the next step.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I said, well, why don't you go dance on a cruise ship and you know, pay for gate for and save some money and see the world and have some fun before you start getting serious about who you're gonna be next, you know.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um it's uh I think um in a lot of ways it was a little bit of a gap year, if you can say that.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_05: Not that it was um, but a little bit of a gap year before you know her professional world um began uh in a different way.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_05: And I think you really ended up enjoying it so much.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever been rehearsing a routine and thought, I just wish I could ask a competition judge what they think of this before we compete?
• 47:50
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• 47:51
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• 48:05
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• 48:15
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• 48:17
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• 48:23
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• 48:31
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• 48:38
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• 48:43
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• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, like Courtney said, we wouldn't be here doing this if it wasn't for Royal Caribbean and that first contract.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, the fact that Courtney was the most mature 18-year-old on that contract.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_04: I was 23, the other girls were 18, and I was like, oh, who am I gonna room with?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: And Courtney was like reasonable and wasn't like too young or crazy, and you know, I mean is my first, you know, time away from home, really, besides one semester of college.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm sure I wasn't the the best.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: I was learning everything.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think that experience was my college experience on the cruise ship.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I was kind of like wilding out and uh learning the ropes at the same time, but Leslie, Leslie kept me in line for sure in a good way as a friend.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: What a great connection.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, I mean, I still I still use that experience as an example for a lot of my kids.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, listen, you know, go we all have ideals in our head of what we're gonna do like right after we step out of college.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: We all, you know, I've I was at the time gonna open a studio.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, I wasn't.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm so glad that I never did.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: I I love teaching at studios, but I didn't, I'm and I even managed a studio for a long time, but I did not want to own a studio.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: That is not really what I wanted to do.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, but going out there, shedding that ideal or whatever you think, you know, I'm going to Broadway today, you're probably not.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, let's be honest.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, being able to go out there and make some money, save that money, um, be able to fund your dream um and start that dream.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I've also remember us having conversations when I was, she's like, Well, you know, uh honestly, now I love the city.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not even about all, you know, dance or what I'm doing up here now.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now I just I love the city.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which that goes in phases too.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I I remember thinking, okay, she's a piece up here right now, and that's that's all that matters to me is that she's happy doing what she's doing.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, you just being able to tell people that this is I had a student, this is what she did.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: She fought she did this, she did these steps, and you know, here she is now.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's I s I mean, still use her to this day as an example.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_04: I love being an example.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's what like I like I was saying, I I feel like that every teacher, you know, knows that not every dancer in the classroom is possibly gonna want to pursue this for a living.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: But maybe there is that one to two to three to five percent that does want to.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then to see the success of what they go on to do is something that as a teacher, you probably will never forget because you've helped shape them, train them, mold them to get to that point.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_03: And if it wasn't for you both, Leslie probably wouldn't have got into OCU and probably wouldn't have had the motivation from Kristen to go to that Royal Caribbean audition.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like mentors really help guide you.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: And especially when those mentors are also the people that you grew up training under that you've trusted, that you've learned from.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think it says so much more.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can, I can be a mentor to a random person that I've only seen once or twice.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: But if my teachers mentored me, I'm gonna listen to what they say and and do exactly what they tell me to do for what's next in my life.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: Way more than just a mentor that I, you know, paid to get information from.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like, especially these days, there's a lot of mentoring opportunities for younger dancers if they don't have that at their home studio.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: But like Leslie, you're so lucky to have like two amazing teachers that have helped guide you throughout your entire life as a professional and into your adulthood.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's really special.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it's something that I didn't have.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I I'm listening to your stories and I I didn't feel like I had as much support when I was breaking into the industry.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's really refreshing to hear it.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think it's really we have a unique history because of my mom and because of, you know, the sort of lineage of the training.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_04: And like you said, Donna, I had I had completely forgotten about Miss Donna and that connection as well.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, Courtney, I don't know if you met Jason Kalish at Dance Teacher Web, but he is Donna Kalish's son.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_04: Donna Kalish was Don Parker's teacher.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: Don Donna and my mom were friends.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like the whole Cobb County dance scene is just like it's it's a small little world, but that brings it out.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_05: We have people all over the world doing wonderful things.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_05: You do.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like in in different generations.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, but I just think for me, like like you said, Don, like my mom studio was not big.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't the best studio in the in the county.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't, you know, we we did what we could and we had a great time.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, we we took advantage of the opportunities that came our way um with teachers that my mom brought in.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, I'm just I'm grateful for the fact that you guys both like believed in me enough to also convince my mom that I could do this because I also think Brenda Mueller was very hesitant to let Leslie Ann go to Oklahoma City.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_04: Mo, Miss Brenda, did not she did not want this.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_04: What did she want?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_04: You to take over the studio?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_04: For sure.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_04: I see.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_04: Or at least just stay in New York.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_05: Be there.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um be there if not um helping net the studio, at least be there and be in the dance scene in Georgia, I would think would be her.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_05: Which which at the time was about this big, also.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_04: Let's all of us be real.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: If I graduated now, I would absolutely stay in Atlanta.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_04: Atlanta is exploding.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_04: Dawn is there in the theater scene.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: There are opportunities left, right, and center.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_04: And in the year 2003, there were not.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: Where was that?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that it it says a lot, like you we have already mentioned, about you choosing to go to a school out of state.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of people will opt in for the in-state school because it is cheaper, because it is closer to home, because I'm too afraid to leave mommy and daddy.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I like the comfort and the security of here.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_03: But leaving for college, I think that's what college is really about.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think like if if as a dancer, if you're going to invest the amount of money it costs to go to a college and you're gonna get that BFA that like might help you in your professional career or might not help you in your professional career, at minimum, at least go get that darn college experience and grow up and learn how to adult.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think that is like what college should be about.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_03: And sticking around at home.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, maybe you have a really great dance program at home and you know what it is the cheaper option, but you should, I hope that dancers don't, you know, just get stuck sometimes because broadening your horizons and seeing like what else is truly out there for you is going to completely change your mind, change your perspective of like what you can actually pursue.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes when you're in your bubble, it it's hard to break, break out of that bubble and you get sometimes a little bit stuck.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: And a cruise ship is something that like we've been preaching about here.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_03: We preach about on the pod all the time.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: What a perfect way to get out and explore the world and like you said, launch your career.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I feel like a lot of dancers are a little sometimes a little afraid because they're like, I'm gonna be traveling on a boat and I'm at sea and oh my gosh.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like, well, if you maybe like already left home before that, then you're already used to being away from home.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_03: And now I'm gonna go do this new adventure life at sea and seeing the world, you know?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's an easier transition if if you, you know, to take that step away from home to experience.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_05: You also get trained to work at work and live on a yacht, and there's a very special skill set that most people do not have.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_05: Uh it's it's an amazing experience.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I think some people discount or they downplay, I don't know the word.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, a lot of your parks now, like there's some great entertainment going on um at different parks all over the nation, all over the world.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, my son had an offer for Tokyo, Disney for, you know, something, and he ended up on the the cruise line.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: But like there's or or maybe it was universal.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: He gets a lot of offers.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: It isn't Japan.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: But um like but they actually have some great stuff and great shows, um, high tech, lots of money in them in the production.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes those get kind of minimized almost to the sake of art or idealism and what we're should be doing.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, go get the paycheck.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: You can be ideal later when you have money and can pay your rent.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, that that's great when that when that happens.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but I don't think that we're doing students a service by saying, Oh yeah, you know, right after you get out, you're gonna go get an agent and you're gonna go straight and book a show and you're or book a company or book it's it's not that's that's the it's honestly the you know the the minority is doing that.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that's not uh that's not the realistic um attitude.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: If it happens, great, that's wonderful.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: But you've also got to prepare them for reality.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: And um reality is if you're dancing, are you happy?
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, great.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: Then go find somewhere you're dancing.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that was always the way I looked at it, you know, because I agree.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's exactly how I approached it because I knew, you know, I knew going to college.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_04: I think Dawn, you might have said this.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_04: You were like, you're short, this might be harder for you.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_04: And like it it was, it was harder for me.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_04: However, that is one of the reasons I did not box myself in or limit myself to what I wanted.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted to get paid to dance.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_04: What did that end up meaning?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_04: Cruise ships, theme parks, character work, um, you know, flash mobs.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like it ended up meaning a lot more.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_04: Teaching, judging, um, writing for dance blogs, working for Capizio, judging for competitions, like it meant a lot more than just I had had so many friends who truly said, I want to be a roquette, and that is all I want.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what they pursued, and then they moved home because they gave up on that one dream because they couldn't allow themselves to expand.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I I do think that when when you start out, you know, not that I was like not privileged, but like I had some stuff working against me.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um and when you start out that way, you it seems like you work a little harder and you you allow yourself to dream bigger and wider and more expansively because I just didn't have everything handed to me.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't have everything.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody was saying you're perfect for this 15 times a day.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was once every year maybe I was perfect for something, you know?
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_04: And even then it it worked out only occasionally.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think it's very important just for teachers in general.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even talking about just dance teachers, but teachers in general, to, you know, when you have these relationships, know your students, like um, build trust with them, build respect with them so that you can be truthful with them.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like Leslie would know if we had a conversation, and I and I probably did at some point say, listen, you know, um, you gotta be realistic about this.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: It can also go to your advantage in many ways, but you know, this is just how it is.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: But she knows I'm doing that from a spirit of um, I want her to succeed.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I want.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: I want her to succeed, and we're having that kind of conversation.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not demeaning, it's not um to put anyone down, it's in support, but it's also I'm gonna be truthful with you.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to have a respect, a mutual respect with your students and your teachers to be able to have those tough conversations um and to be able to sit down and be like, you know, you cannot be a roquette.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's an actual, you know, mathematical equation involved, which is that has gotten better, but you know what I mean.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I, you know, I've I've had another student who was she, you know, she was just passionate that she was gonna be a rockette.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: And when I tell you there was nothing about her that was going to be a rockette, nothing, including her technique.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, like, how do you how do you say like there are some students you can just say that, and there are some students that don't want to hear that.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_05: I remember being told that you you can definitely dance the part, but you can't wear the costume, and we're not gonna pay to to um altered.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_05: Altered, altered never they want to.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_05: We did have an um a seamstress that sat at the you know um backstage during our shows and would fix things in between shows, but um you got your you know, your uniform and that was your uniform, and if it didn't fit, then you struggled through it.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it just did short breast while you danced.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um but uh you know that that kind of stuff is is hard to navigate.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just appreciative of, you know, I feel like I've I've always been willing to take whatever criticism comes my way, because I do want to be better and like grateful for for people who have been honest.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, listen, if if if I can't, if there's something that's not gonna be available to me, then let me know.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_04: But then because then I can just move on, you know, like what's the next thing?
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like, okay, if that's not gonna work out, that's fine.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm definitely grateful for just the honesty and like you said, the trust and the um understanding, you know, mutually, even back then as to now.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm sure you both told me hard things at some point.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_04: I think Don, you did, I think my progress report for something, you know, and it was one of those critiques that was just like I think I was annoyed by it because it had something to do with like me being very rigid about something, or you know, I I wanted to move a certain way and you were like, it was helpful, but I didn't want to hear it.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I just um I always remember those progress reports as being something that I cr I really wanted, but I also kind of wanted to fight back on.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like, well, you know, but maybe we could talk about this.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_05: You've been you've always been so dedicated.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_05: You really have.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_04: I try.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_04: I was I was working out today actually, and I work out with a trainer who is a former Rocket Um and a Horton teacher.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_04: And so we do a lot of like balancing things, and you know, we kind of we pull from dance even while we're working out.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_04: That's nice.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_04: And and so like every time I like find my correction, I pull my center together if I'm off balance.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_04: She's like, I saw that.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_04: I saw that that dance is coming back.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_04: So it never leaves you.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_05: You use your you use your dance and your life every day for the rest of your life, no matter what you're doing.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's so true, it's so real.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: And Kristen and Dawn, it's been so lovely getting to know you both and hearing about your journey in dance with Leslie attached.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I just I'm really excited that we were able to bring you both on and honor you guys on our podcast that we've been doing for so many years because we talk about the legacy of dance and who inspires us and who makes a change in our life.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I can tell that you both have done that for Leslie.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm so happy that we did this episode.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having us.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm delighted to be here.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so honored to be invited.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: I have a feeling both of us will always show up for Leslie.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: Aww.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I feel like Leslie, you can let me know your thoughts on this, but I kind of want you to do you have like a final question for a leadout that you'd like to ask both of your teachers?
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_04: Oh gosh.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_04: Don't put me on the spot.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: I am putting on the spot, but if there's anything you can think of to ask them before they leave, can it be two different questions?
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_04: Sure, why not?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_04: Oh god, these are hard.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, okay, Kristen.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_04: If if you could choreograph one more solo for me, what do you think it would be?
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_04: What song, what style?
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_04: Gosh.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um mean question.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_05: Uh it would be tat, some tap.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um in a heel or no?
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_04: Well.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, probably in a heel.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_04: I would guess you would make me do it in a heel.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_05: No, because I respect the fact that um those aren't fantastic for you anymore.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I would I would let you use your most comfortable split soul.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_05: No split and not a split.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um whatever's most comfortable.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_05: Oh gosh.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um I'm gonna have to think of a song.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_05: I really I'll I'll think of a song while um you asked Dar.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, perfect.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and Dawn, so one of the things, Don, that I have always respected about you is you have, I mean, ever since I met you, always been trying to better yourself as an educator and learn something new and try something new and make yourself more um knowledgeable about whatever craft it is that you're doing.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um what made you decide to go into?
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_04: To teaching high school and specifically teaching theater, and how does that compare to teaching dance?
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because you did that for so long, and all of a sudden you're like, I'm gonna go get my MFA, I'm gonna teach high school theater, and now I'm gonna direct high school, you know, professional productions, like yeah, at what at 54.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's what it just made so much no, yeah.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna be honest, uh part of it was definitely driven by my body.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mentioned earlier I had these reconstructive surgeries on my feet and my ankles, and um, it got to where I I would have to have an assistant, which was fine.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, a little blur to the ego, but it was fine.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it got to be harder and harder.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I got into theater by choreographing, musical theater, which just that was normal.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started directing a couple of shows, and I was like, I really like this.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm telling a story just like I do when I choreograph.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been very story driven when I choreograph, so that's the modern dancer in me.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I was like, this is very similar to me.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_02: The visual and the aesthetic of directing was kind of choreographing.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so I started directing a little bit, and I was choreographing, directing at all these high schools, and I mean I'd get paid for it, but not not probably what I should have, you know.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_02: And finally, this Marie Bruner um at Harrison High School, I was working with her and she said, This is ridiculous.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Go get your teaching certificate.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I looked into um Brunell University here in Georgia, and they had just started this MAT, which is education focused.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's a master's of arts and teaching, but they had a theater education emphasis.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing about an MAT is you're supposed to only be able to do it if it's based off your undergrad, which was dance.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_02: I had zero reason or motivation to get a master's in dance at this point.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_02: So they gave me a professional consideration since I had been working in theater for so long.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so at 40, at the ripe old age of 45, I went back to grad school to get my master's.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so um it, you know, I'm really I am proud of it.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: I really am.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was student teaching, uh, where we had our recitals, and that director had decided he was ready to move on.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he gets what he wants.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_02: And before you know it, I'm the director at Kennesaw Mountain, and I have said I am where I'm supposed to be so many times.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no reason I should be there some days.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, nope, this is exactly where I should be for the program, for the kids.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love high school.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't teach really, honestly, I don't teach much different than I taught dance.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm very much the same teacher.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I do the same things I did in a dance class and in a private studio and just just every day, you know, with theater now.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: We hope you enjoyed our episode all about the dance teachers who impacted us.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to follow Leslie's teachers on Instagram.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_03: You can find Dawn at Dancer Dawn5 and Kristen at VM Holdings LTD.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact anywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_04: And new for season eight, we're on video.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_04: Check us out on YouTube by searching for Impact Dance Adjudicators.
• 1:09:24
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• 1:09:31
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• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_04: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition, Axis Dance Competition, where Linda Diamond's years of experience brings you the vitality of a new beginning.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_03: Teachers, studio owners, dancers, and parents have shared what they want in a dance competition.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_03: And Access is here to deliver.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_03: This innovative yet traditional event promises to be a combination of fun, professionalism, and passion.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_03: Their goal is that each dancer leads with a smile on their face and the incentive to be the best they can be.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Axis is eager to provide every performer with an opportunity to celebrate dance.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Full panels of IDA judges are used at every Axis event to offer constructive quality feedback and scoring.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_03: To learn more about Axis Dance Competition and to register for an upcoming event, head to their website now at AccessDance Competition.com.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Coming up in the next few weeks, we've got a fun throwback as well as a brand new episode all about college dance programs.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_03: See you next week for another great episode on Making the Impact.